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L30[06:38:51] <Joshwoo70> @liach i checked their server... quite restrictive imo.
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L65[12:28:49] <Forecaster> so,I paid a visit to the RoW discord server
L66[12:29:19] <Forecaster> and the mod author met me with "aren't you that guy that helps CJ with railcraft? Are you really a RoW fan?"
L67[12:29:21] <Forecaster> xD
L68[12:29:34] <Hanakocz> what is RoW?
L69[12:29:42] <Hanakocz> Railcraft on Wheels?
L70[12:29:48] <Forecaster> Rail of War
L71[12:29:51] <Forecaster> Rails of War
L72[12:29:59] <Hanakocz> oh
L73[12:30:28] <Forecaster> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HYniW9o4TU
L74[12:30:48] <Forecaster> actually he said "are you a RoW fan really? I remember you being a guy helping CJ with RC development -.-"
L75[12:31:10] <Forecaster> what a great welcome :P
L76[12:31:51] <Hanakocz> mhm, that is kida another league xD
L77[12:31:59] <Hanakocz> mhm, that is kinda another league xD
L78[12:32:14] <Hanakocz> looks fancy but it lost somehow MC's feel
L79[12:33:38] <Forecaster> well yeah, which is why I was surprised by the statement above
L80[12:33:49] <Forecaster> it's not like RoW is in competition with railcraft or anything
L81[12:45:59] <SkySom> I remember when I had a few people ask if I was in Competition with CJ when he added an RF loader after I did.
L82[12:46:25] <SkySom> I was like no? Shit Railcraft is all but a required dependency for me
L83[12:47:26] <Forecaster> :P
L84[12:49:18] <SkySom> Hell the 1.8.9 version felt like a shitshow due to the fact that Railcraft wasn't a thing lol
L85[12:49:42] <SkySom> Quickly found I take for granded all that RC provides
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L87[13:11:56] <Lostgeek> Routing tables, using colors, is there a way to select primary/secondary color?
L88[13:12:21] <Lostgeek> like primary = red and secondary = light gray?
L89[13:12:56] <CovertJaguar> Yes
L90[13:13:01] <Forecaster> Color=primary,secondary
L91[13:13:32] <CovertJaguar> Some wildcards too
L92[13:14:16] <Forecaster> this is explained in the help in the routing table
L93[13:15:39] <Lostgeek> ty
L94[13:16:58] <Lostgeek> I thought i caught that though, but i guess i misinterpreted http://ftb.gamepedia.com/Routing_Table
L95[13:17:11] <Lostgeek> or is that a typo and supposed to be "comma" instead?
L96[13:19:59] <Forecaster> whoever wrote that that way is an idiot
L97[13:22:23] <Lostgeek> myeah, i know that feeling
L98[13:22:44] <Lostgeek> though i must admit that i also have a bit of trouble navigating my way round in the railcraft wiki
L99[13:23:10] <Forecaster> use the built-in manual in the routing table
L100[13:24:43] <Lostgeek> ack, ty
L101[13:27:53] <Forecaster> I'd take any info from ftb wikis with a few grains of salt
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L105[13:51:05] <CovertJaguar> "self explanatory" my ass.. Only if you have read the in game manual and are already familiar with prefix notation
L106[13:51:12] <CovertJaguar> Wow, that wiki manages to miss every important detail
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L108[13:52:52] <Forecaster> see "idiot"
L109[13:52:53] <Forecaster> :P
L110[13:53:03] <Forecaster> as previously stated
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L112[13:58:16] <SkySom> Idiot is a harsh word
L113[13:58:19] <SkySom> Ignorant perhaps
L114[14:01:02] <liach> @Joshwoo70 You mean it has many rules? Or do you want to hack? Well that is a very good server since developers of Sponge often come to this server, and the owner of the server do some coding and once helped fix a bug for Railcraft
L115[14:02:23] <SkySom> So I'm curious about that.
L116[14:02:30] <SkySom> How does one create a plugin that depends on a mod?
L117[14:02:43] <Forecaster> it's pretty tame and un-specific
L118[14:02:43] <SkySom> Like why does it need a specific api?
L119[14:03:17] <SkySom> And can't just use the normal one?
L120[14:03:54] <Forecaster> you don't need an api
L121[14:04:04] <Forecaster> just do "if mod is not loaded > crash"
L122[14:04:05] <Forecaster> :P
L123[14:04:16] <Forecaster> bam, dependency
L124[14:04:46] <SkySom> Then what's the point of #898 ?
L125[14:04:57] <liach> @SkySom If you want to you can create a mod that has acceptedRemoteVersions="*"
L126[14:05:08] <liach> And then you do not need a client mod
L127[14:05:12] <Forecaster> I don't know what that issue is about, I was just being silly
L128[14:05:26] <liach> and remember do not add blocks or entities which modifies the registry
L129[14:05:46] <SkySom> Well yeah I understand how to do one, but what would you do on a server with railcraft that wouldn't require a client mod?
L130[14:06:13] <liach> If you use sponge the you can just create a plugin that depends on the mod id
L131[14:06:45] <liach> If its me I would do some patching on undercutter, track relayer, etc to prevent griefing
L132[14:07:12] <CovertJaguar> Hmm.. I should add some more options for ore spawning, the option to turn off vanilla spawns for example, and maybe to add a small scattering of normal ore in the poor ore seams
L133[14:07:50] <CovertJaguar> @liach what kind of patching?
L134[14:08:06] <liach> For rich copper or tin I think you can spawn when they exist in the ore dict instead of adding ores
L135[14:08:22] <CovertJaguar> I know none of them call the proper Forge permission events
L136[14:08:36] <liach> Those patching are just to throw events before setBlockToAir or similar calls
L137[14:09:07] <liach> On bukkit you can grief blocks in res with undercutter, I've tested
L138[14:09:29] <liach> It is said by Sponge devs that they will prevent such exploits from their patches
L139[14:09:40] <CovertJaguar> One could argue that that should be done with the Forge events not a sponge plugin
L140[14:09:55] <SkySom> Yeah I mean there is a PR for a permissions api
L141[14:09:58] <SkySom> So eventually there will be that
L142[14:10:19] <liach> @CovertJaguar Sponge did it with its implementation on forge instead of plugins
L143[14:10:24] <CovertJaguar> I thought the events needed already exist in forge
L144[14:10:52] <liach> My proposal for that issue for an separate api is to allow sponge plugins to manipulate railcraft more easily
L145[14:10:58] <liach> such as integrating it into minigames
L146[14:12:18] <liach> Btw beside the boat carts some other funny carts like suspension carts may be added https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_railway
L147[14:12:49] <CovertJaguar> Er... What?
L148[14:12:58] <SkySom> Boat carts?
L149[14:13:59] <CovertJaguar> I have no context for any if of this and I'm hesitant to integrate and api into Railcraft for an environment I don't use
L150[14:14:40] <liach> People in one of the channels talked about boat carts which can run on both tracks and water
L151[14:15:00] <liach> I believe one api like that could be easily implemented by me
L152[14:15:05] <CovertJaguar> What does that have to do with sponge?
L153[14:15:08] <liach> just mark it as open project
L154[14:15:21] <SkySom> I mentioned having chest boats
L155[14:15:27] <SkySom> And somehow that turned into boat carts
L156[14:15:33] <SkySom> Which sound awful in terms of programming
L157[14:15:36] <SkySom> The boat code
L158[14:15:38] <SkySom> Is not pretty
L159[14:15:39] <CovertJaguar> I didnt say anything about implementayion, it's maintaince that will be the main issue
L160[14:15:52] <SkySom> Writing the code the first time is easy
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L162[14:15:55] <SkySom> It's dealing with it later
L163[14:15:56] <liach> maintence?
L164[14:16:43] <CovertJaguar> Yes when I inevitable change something that you api hooks and have no idea how to fix it
L165[14:17:10] <liach> For those ones I would just deprecate them
L166[14:17:36] <liach> at least that type of api could provide a list of railcraft blocks for plugins to generate in custom maps
L167[14:17:46] <liach> or to handle in recipes
L168[14:18:08] <SkySom> There sin't just a generic way to grab them from forge?
L169[14:18:19] <SkySom> in Sponge?
L170[14:18:35] <liach> @SkySom Sponge plugins are supposed not to be depending on forge since forge changes between minecraft versions
L171[14:18:40] <CovertJaguar> I guess that could hook into the block/item container Enums to autogen those lists
L172[14:18:58] <liach> Plugins can be used without changing between mc versions
L173[14:19:00] <SkySom> So depending on some mod api is better?
L174[14:19:05] <CovertJaguar> Why is there no wrapper for the Forge registry?
L175[14:19:14] <SkySom> ^That's more what I mean
L176[14:19:20] <SkySom> SPonge could easily abstract that
L177[14:21:18] <CovertJaguar> Do sponge plugins operate in the own class loader space?
L178[14:21:33] * Ajloveslily hugs CJ
L179[14:21:53] <liach> Those plugins are actually loaded by forge as mods as i know
L180[14:22:03] <liach> so it should use legacylauncher class loader
L181[14:22:16] <CovertJaguar> I mean, I really don't see how wrapping my api in a another api makes it any safer to use
L182[14:22:20] <liach> In other words, they are addons of Sponge forge mod
L183[14:22:37] <liach> That api for sponge will not be based on current rcapi
L184[14:22:45] <liach> but directly based on railcraft code
L185[14:23:07] <liach> I would use another mod for impl instead of changing railcraft code
L186[14:23:13] <CovertJaguar> That's even worse, at least the api is stable
L187[14:23:27] <CovertJaguar> Another mod?
L188[14:24:07] <CovertJaguar> You mean forking Railcraft?
L189[14:24:12] <liach> Yes another coremod, see the thaumcraft sponge api implementation https://github.com/gabizou/ThaumicSponge/blob/master/src/main/java/com/gabizou/thaumicsponge/ThaumicSpongeMod.java
L190[14:24:19] <liach> not forking but just a coremod
L191[14:24:31] <liach> that asm on railcraft code
L192[14:24:51] <CovertJaguar> "just a core mod" he says
L193[14:24:52] <SkySom> That sounds horrible
L194[14:24:59] <SkySom> Yeah **JUST**
L195[14:25:04] <SkySom> A core mod
L196[14:25:06] <SkySom> No biggy
L197[14:25:26] <liach> Cuz Sponge has some sort of coremod technology from liteloader called mixin
L198[14:25:37] <SkySom> That's not a coremod...
L199[14:25:39] <liach> That makes core modding so much easier
L200[14:25:43] <SkySom> Little different.
L201[14:25:45] <SkySom> But still.
L202[14:26:03] <CovertJaguar> If your core mod loads Railcraft into the class loader it WIll break shit
L203[14:26:34] <CovertJaguar> Er... Not sure about mixins
L204[14:27:28] <liach> https://github.com/spongepowered/mixin this allows even newbies to make coremods
L205[14:27:46] <liach> more exactly mixin is a tweaker like optifine
L206[14:27:55] <SkySom> Newbies making coremods sounds awful.
L207[14:27:59] <CovertJaguar> Core mods are a very specific thing...
L208[14:28:53] <SkySom> Though aren't mixins just fancy interfaces?
L209[14:29:00] <CovertJaguar> The load before other things in a special class loader and get fed to the game class loader, breaking dependencies and api load orders
L210[14:29:39] <liach> I got some good documentation on tweakershttp://www.liteloader.com/explore/docs/info:tweak
L211[14:29:40] <CovertJaguar> I don't know enough about mixins really to comment
L212[14:30:17] <SkySom> https://github.com/SpongePowered/Mixin/wiki/Introduction-to-Mixins---Understanding-Mixin-Architecture
L213[14:30:30] <SkySom> Yeah looks like it's basically a nicer way of hooking interfaces
L214[14:31:42] <SkySom> With some odd way of hooking methods?
L215[14:33:00] <liach> It allows you to replace a specific method and add code before some point in the method
L216[14:33:18] <liach> It also allows you to implement custom interfaces for extra hooks/apis
L217[14:33:42] <CovertJaguar> The real question is when are this things loaded into the class loader
L218[14:34:50] <liach> https://github.com/SpongePowered/Mixin/wiki/Introduction-to-Mixins---The-Mixin-Environment I guess this explains
L219[14:40:34] <CovertJaguar> Anyway whether you make thing seems me to be entirely your choice if it doesn't involve adding code to Railcraft, as for whether it's safe to load classes that are sensitive to load order (Mods and mod apis) is probably something I'd have to ask cpw about
L220[14:41:36] <CovertJaguar> I don't want to have deal with another DragonAPI
L221[14:42:19] <liach> Sponge api is much more friendly than dragon api
L222[14:42:25] <MrConductor> * SkySom still has nightmares about DragonAPI
L223[14:42:35] <liach> Btw how do you think of Bukkit compared to Dragon
L224[14:43:14] <liach> Well Almura server which Sponge dev plays has a lot of mixins but its client is very stable https://github.com/AlmuraDev/Almura
L225[14:43:47] <liach> Not all tweakers are bad mods. Liteloader for example works well with rc
L226[14:43:53] <CovertJaguar> The point is that DragonAPI murders the class load order often forcing outdated versions of class files the be loaded
L227[14:45:34] <CovertJaguar> It does this because as a core mod, and classes it loads get precedence outside of the Fml helpers
L228[14:45:40] <liach> Thankfully Sponge api does not have a stupid mod list similar to the one from reika https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/DragonAPI/blob/master/ModList.java
L229[14:46:40] <liach> Mixin is designed to be SAFE
L230[14:46:56] <CovertJaguar> But does lite loader depend on any Railcraft classes?
L231[14:47:01] <liach> No
L232[14:47:19] <CovertJaguar> So that's and irrelevant comparison =)
L233[14:47:44] <CovertJaguar> And yes. I've heard mixins are safer than coremods
L234[14:47:59] <CovertJaguar> But I've not paid attention to the details
L235[14:49:33] <liach> How about just replace classes like this stupid one? https://github.com/gamerforEA/RailCraft-FakePlayers
L236[14:50:47] <CovertJaguar> The api already has fake player code
L237[14:51:27] <CovertJaguar> But if you think wrapping it is safer...
L238[14:52:12] <liach> Actually that railcraft fakeplayers contain code directly copied from Railcraft
L239[14:53:19] <liach> It can really be considered as using too much railcraft code
L240[14:53:26] <liach> ref: You MAY use snippets of Railcraft Code posted on the Official Github in your own projects, but only if your project consists of less than 25% of Railcraft derived code. You must give credit to the Railcraft Project for the code used, including a link to the Github Project. Put this in your class file headers that contain Railcraft code, in your readme, and on the main download page.
L241[14:54:01] <CovertJaguar> Heh
L242[14:54:32] <liach> I remember i've seen some mod using mixin to fix tunnel bore grief before
L243[14:54:55] <liach> https://github.com/thomas15v/DeviantFix
L244[14:55:12] <CovertJaguar> Again, surely sponge hooks the Forge permission events
L245[14:55:37] <liach> Sponge dev are trying to make no forge mod to change their code
L246[14:56:28] <liach> https://github.com/thomas15v/DeviantFix/blob/master/src/main/java/com/thedeviantnetwork/deviantfix/mixin/railcraft/MixinEntityTunnelBore.java Sadly the mod author seems not to know how to use IOwnable
L247[14:56:32] <CovertJaguar> This isnt just about not changing code, these events just never got added but they should be
L248[14:57:31] <liach> forge permission ... https://github.com/MinecraftForge/MinecraftForge/pull/3155
L249[14:57:42] <CovertJaguar> Not that
L250[14:57:50] <CovertJaguar> The block set events
L251[14:58:20] <liach> sponge just patch at the places where every mod calls
L252[14:58:44] <liach> instead of those places that handles entity interaction or player packet
L253[14:59:25] <CovertJaguar> https://github.com/MinecraftForge/MinecraftForge/blob/1.10.x/src/main/java/net/minecraftforge/event/world/BlockEvent.java
L254[14:59:29] <liach> After all I really want to play railcraft with more people but... There are few good railcraft servers
L255[14:59:59] <liach> railcraft=realcraft!
L256[15:00:26] <CovertJaguar> Sponge isn't the only mod that would benefit from Railcraft properly calling those events
L257[15:03:08] <liach> They help servers a lot
L258[15:04:15] <CovertJaguar> Then shouldn't they be added to Railcraft instead of patched in by another mod?
L259[15:04:38] <liach> Well buildcraft has such events for quarries
L260[15:05:00] <liach> I believe that for now these bugs could be left aside
L261[15:05:17] <liach> By the way are you still at the skunk train?
L262[15:06:17] <CovertJaguar> I just don't think about those things when coding and they are newer than most of my code, people often complain about the lack but I never hear from them again after asking them to make a PR
L263[15:07:29] <CovertJaguar> Nope, North of SF atm sitting at a rest stop
L264[15:08:06] <liach> Can't you really play a server @CovertJaguar ? Sounds sad
L265[15:08:22] <CovertJaguar> Depends on the mods
L266[15:08:36] <CovertJaguar> Vanilla works fine
L267[15:08:41] <liach> http://almura.enjin.com/home/m/10923980/article/3957622
L268[15:08:46] <liach> How about these mods?
L269[15:09:06] <CovertJaguar> But most modders don't give a shit about bandwidth
L270[15:09:27] ⇨ Joins: ImQ009 (~ImQ009@89-67-36-214.dynamic.chello.pl)
L271[15:10:49] <liach> Bandwidth...
L272[15:10:53] <MrConductor> * SkySom whistles
L273[15:10:57] <liach> This would even kill servers
L274[15:11:09] <liach> because bandwidth are very expensive on servers
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L276[15:13:21] <CovertJaguar> That page won't load on my phone
L277[15:13:43] <liach> almura?
L278[15:14:04] <liach> Can you see this dynmap for the server? srv1.almuramc.com:8123
L279[15:14:12] <CovertJaguar> Redirects to mobile version homepage
L280[15:14:23] <liach> http://srv1.almuramc.com:8123/
L281[15:14:50] <liach> That is almura 2.5 with mods: Almura (core)
L282[15:14:51] <liach> BiblioCraft
L283[15:14:51] <liach> Carpenters Blocks
L284[15:14:51] <liach> CustomNPC's
L285[15:14:51] <liach> MoCreatures
L286[15:14:52] <liach> Dynmap
L287[15:14:52] <liach> InventoryTweaks
L288[15:14:52] <liach> IronChest
L289[15:14:52] <liach> MalisisCore
L290[15:14:53] <liach> MalisisDoors
L291[15:14:53] <liach> NotEnoughItems
L292[15:14:54] <liach> Railcraft
L293[15:14:54] <liach> WorldEdit
L294[15:16:06] <CovertJaguar> Well it's not a huge list, I'm not really sure whether it will or nit
L295[15:16:33] <liach> hope you can try it
L296[15:16:44] <liach> the server owner once opened a pr for the tunnel bore
L297[15:16:49] <CovertJaguar> Carpenters might be the biggest question
L298[15:17:11] <liach> https://github.com/CovertJaguar/Railcraft/pull/688
L299[15:18:14] <CovertJaguar> If that's the case then it nothing more needs to be done right?
L300[15:19:31] <liach> I think we need to fix enchantments and moe carts, like undercutter(once it can remove bedrock, that was cool)
L301[15:19:47] <CovertJaguar> Ah yeah probably
L302[15:20:26] <liach> So will there be a hotfix?
L303[15:20:56] <CovertJaguar> Hot fix ?
L304[15:21:11] <liach> Like minor release
L305[15:21:21] <liach> I found something funny on github:https://github.com/mandatoryprogrammer/NorthKoreaDNSLeak
L306[15:21:52] <CovertJaguar> Heard about than
L307[15:21:58] <CovertJaguar> That
L308[15:22:24] <liach> But I've not seen the github repo yet...
L309[15:22:37] <CovertJaguar> You mean for 1.7?
L310[15:23:11] <liach> yes for 1.7
L311[15:23:18] <liach> I need to go bye
L312[15:23:44] <CovertJaguar> Eh, if you want to fix all the perms issues the I guess I can toss out another release
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L314[15:29:50] <neptunepink> oh god I just navigated to one of those domains and it's started loading
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L316[15:40:20] <Forecaster> virus.xxx
L317[15:43:01] <CovertJaguar> @Forecaster That's suspicious
L318[15:43:21] <Forecaster> nah it's fine, it has cookies
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L328[17:48:41] <Joshwoo70> "@Joshwoo70 You mean it has many rules? Or do you want to hack? Well that is a very good server since developers of Sponge often come to this server, and the owner of the server do some coding and once helped fix a bug for Railcraft" no i do not want to hack! i just want to play...
L329[18:37:28] <liach> @Joshwoo70 Then how is it restrictive?
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L333[19:14:56] <Joshwoo70> feels too threatening
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L335[19:20:04] <liach> How?
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L356[23:47:41] <liach> Anyone?
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