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L3[02:38:28] <Corded> > <Mic​hiyo> @Forecaster Did you end up removing the Honeypot bot from …
L4[02:38:29] <Forec​aster> No?
L5[02:38:36] <Forec​aster> Should I have?
L6[02:39:45] <Mic​hiyo> No, I just didn't see it last time I paid attention lol
L7[02:54:02] <Izzy> Hm, I wonder if the reason all the LLM-extruded Lua I've seen is so dogshit is because most of the Lua out there is written by literal children for roblox, or whether it's just really fucking bad at doing anything and I don't know other languages well enough to notice when I am nonconsentually exposed to it.
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L9[04:53:29] <Izzy> Though, I guess that would imply that the "right" training data could result in it extruding good Lua, while ultimately it can't reason about a problem, can't architect a solution, and can't go "no, this is fucking stupid, let's try something else"
L10[04:56:38] <Spider​EveryOS> %tonk
L11[04:56:38] <MichiBot> Hooray! S​piderEveryOS! You beat your own previous record of 0s (By 9h 9m 39s)! I hope you're happy!
L12[04:56:38] <MichiBot> SpiderEveryOS's new record is 9h 9m 39s! No points gained for stealing from yourself. (Lost out on 0.00916)
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L14[05:58:25] <Izzy> oh, the java CVE is just the certs issue from the other day.
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L33[08:47:06] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> Did yall see this yet?
L34[08:47:06] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> https://www.vxreddit.com/r/feedthebeast/comments/1xb7f7l/first_release_of_my_mod_js_computers_now_you_can/
L35[08:51:47] <Izzy> that would be very impressive if it weren't slop, instead it just inspires a sense of dread
L36[08:52:18] <Izzy> maybe a sign I should log off for the day
L37[08:57:01] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> i mean it isn't slop?
L38[08:57:02] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> slop would mean it was vibecoded
L39[08:58:22] <Izzy> any LLM output is slop, no matter how closely supervised it is
L40[08:59:17] <Izzy> please consult the cards for more information https://cdn.jwz.org/images/2026/aicards.jpg
L41[08:59:51] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> VS code has AI built in now, does that count too
L42[09:00:00] <Izzy> yup
L43[09:00:02] <Corded> > <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> +local
L44[09:00:05] <Izzy> yup
L45[09:00:19] <Izzy> locally made slop is still slop
L46[09:00:26] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> damn thats crazy i guess I gotta rename my variables by hand 🥀
L47[09:00:34] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> otherwise its slop
L48[09:00:43] <Izzy> if only there were existing tools that did that
L49[09:00:53] <Izzy> surely no computer user would ever know how to use their computer
L50[09:01:04] <Izzy> god forbid you have to do a search-and-replace
L51[09:03:41] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> same end result, different tools
L52[09:03:41] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> just because one uses a neural network doesnt magically make the work not be done
L53[09:03:58] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> 🤷
L54[09:05:13] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> (also, the ai points it out the moment the variable name is changed, and I just check it's replacing the right thing before clicking a green checkmark. It's literally the same process as search and replace, but I dont have to punch it in by hand)
L55[09:05:29] <Izzy> How's that boot taste?
L56[09:05:48] <Forec​aster> it's the same, except all the ethical issues
L57[09:06:00] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> 🤷
L58[09:06:14] <Izzy> it's not even the same though, the slop machine extrudes the most dogshit code I've ever seen
L59[09:06:35] <Izzy> miserable time
L60[09:06:36] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> even when its not doing code
L61[09:06:40] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> ?
L62[09:06:43] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> lol
L63[09:06:48] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> im fucking with you
L64[09:06:50] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> thats not a real question
L65[09:09:24] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> i get why people dislike generative ai
L66[09:09:24] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> but freaking out and calling code "slop" the moment it even mentions AI assistance isn't productive or condusive to an actual discussion regarding the ethics or ecological side effects of using it
L67[09:10:14] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> vibe coding and selling ai-generated code are bad, yes
L68[09:10:14] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> but using my IDE's built-in ai suggestion box doesn't magically make everything touched by the IDE suddenly slop
L69[09:10:52] <Izzy> congratulations, everything you make is slop!
L70[09:11:13] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> so much for nuanced discussion i guess 🥀
L71[09:11:41] <Izzy> slop enthusiasts will go "putting aside the ethical issues" as if that's a thing one can do
L72[09:11:45] <Izzy> I'm not interested
L73[09:11:49] <Izzy> enjoy your slop
L74[09:11:53] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> bro did NOT read what I said
L75[09:12:03] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> "productive or condusive to an actual discussion regarding the ethics or ecological side effects of using it"
L76[09:12:12] <Izzy> yeah, while defending it??
L77[09:12:36] <Izzy> you're already wasting my time with this, you're using it so you're not interested in actual discussion of it, you just want to feel okay with it
L78[09:12:58] <Izzy> gluh, this is a waste of my time
L79[09:13:11] <Izzy> once again, enjoy your slop :)
L80[09:13:13] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> what is your actual problem with it
L81[09:13:26] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> is it the ethics? because that's something that can be discussed
L82[09:13:39] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> is it the ecological impact of generative ai? that too can be discussed
L83[09:14:28] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> but blindly flailing and refusing to engage other than calling it slop isn't a worthwhile thing to say
L84[09:15:06] <Lilyfl​owerFDL> Izzy: Rider comes with some kind of AI completion engine that's wrong almost all the time, I had to dig around in the settings to figure out how to turn it off
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L86[09:15:16] <Izzy> lolol sounds about right
L87[09:15:37] <lily> and by wrong I mean it'd straight up suggest serilog instead of RT's built in logger
L88[09:15:52] <lily> nevermind the fact that serilog isn't available on the client
L89[09:16:00] <Izzy> I don't want to dunk but my little rant ~8 hours ago was reading through some extruded Lua and it was such a mess
L90[09:16:26] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> See, that's understandable
L91[09:16:43] <lily> I think my biggest concern with that mod would be, like, the performance?
L92[09:16:45] <Izzy> took something, quadrupled the size to fix a problem that could best be described as "you were using it wrong"
L93[09:16:56] <Izzy> did so in the most pants-on-head way possible
L94[09:17:18] <Izzy> not even the dumb brute force way, complete nonsense that does work if you stand on your head to look at it
L95[09:17:24] <lily> it feels like something that'd be... I'd reach for the term "artist programming" here but that doesn't apply here for obvious reasons
L96[09:17:39] <lily> like how spectrum's black hole chest was taking up 900uS/t
L97[09:18:12] <Corded> > <Iz​zy> not even the dumb brute force way, complete nonsense that d…
L98[09:18:13] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> See, that just sounds like someone doing vibecoding and blindly trying to get the AI to do all the work for them
L99[09:18:24] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> (replying to izzy, im not sure if it gets that across)
L100[09:18:36] <Izzy> you know how you can do for i = start, end, increment? this used an unbounded while loop, manually incremented a counter, and broke out of the loop at the end
L101[09:18:42] <lily> what the fuck
L102[09:18:53] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> oh ew
L103[09:18:56] <lily> on a completely different note I had to write an Xposed module yesterday to use my yubikey with discord and uh. wow, it's basically just Android Mixin huh
L104[09:19:14] <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> also that really could also just be a novice coder who doesn't know you can do that
L105[09:19:15] <Izzy> which is very funny but also damn you were happy to publish that??
L106[09:21:11] <Izzy> anyway. very cool. hope that was worth boiling a lake and driving up the price of memory 500% for, buddy.
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L109[09:53:31] <Corded> > <Re​nno> reacted 👆 to <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> i get why people dislike generative ai but freaking out and calling code "slop"…
L110[09:54:30] <Re​nno> Will you boycott Linux and/or stop updating since the latest versions are AI assisted in ~20% of code changes?
L111[09:57:39] <Re​nno> Btw computers and machines in general already had significant ecological impacts well prior to AI in similar ways, its not like we've been spamming it like crazy for like 30 or 40 years straight beforehand right?
L112[10:02:18] <Re​nno> Im also particularly curious how from a Marxist perspective which I would guess that you have, Izzy, how you are pro intellectual property and anti theft of considering that intellectual property from that perspective is considered as a capitalistic mechanism to gatekeep humanities collection of knowledge. That knowledge was stolen by
L113[10:02:18] <Corded> the AI companies and has basically been redistributed to the world at scale through the outputs of LLMs, which if I recall is aligned with Marxists goals. Of course, if you aren't Marxist this doesn't apply, but I would be surprised if you weren't aligned with the signage in and around Niasmor on the SKS server
L114[10:18:01] <Corded> > <Re​nno> reacted ☝️ to <Toga's Bi​ggest Fan> but blindly flailing and refusing to engage other than calling it slop isn't a …
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L117[11:25:13] <Amanda> LLMs are a method of taking the skilled and using it for wealth, while denying the wealth to the skilled.
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L119[11:26:12] <Amanda> There's a reason every indipendent contractor I know charges at least double for cleaning up LLM outputs.
L120[11:38:15] <Corded> > <Ama​nda> LLMs are a method of taking the skilled and using it for we…
L121[11:38:15] <Re​nno> I've met quite a few skilled people that have made significant wealth from using them so uh
L122[11:41:12] <Re​nno> and by your own admission you're wrong, you literally just said that they are making double for being skilled because of LLMs.
L123[11:47:58] <Corded> > <ein​Beo> fourth time's the charm
L124[11:47:58] <ein​Beo> it also disappears when moving into a lootgames dungeon chunk! https://discordembeds.pc-logix.com/live/1562794640242122754/2026-10-22_13.47.11.png
L125[11:48:22] <ein​Beo> or the meteor that's nearby, who knows, could be either
L126[11:50:39] <Corded> > <ein​Beo> it also disappears when moving into a lootgames dungeon chu…
L127[11:50:39] <Re​nno> well that's concerning for any of the long exploration robots I was thinking about making
L128[11:50:53] <Re​nno> what is your robot supposed to do if it wasn't being deleted by worldgen?
L129[11:53:03] <ein​Beo> get division sigil, thaumium pickaxe, iron, and some other metals from thaumcraft dungeons (location reverse engineered from seed), get enchantment table from a roguelike dungeon (using thaumium pick to break it), activate division sigil, smelt the enchantment table, make unstable ingots and obsidian sticks, make unbreakable pickaxe
L130[11:53:33] <RedstoneParkour> would perhaps pregenerating the chunk by having a chunkloading drone move to it work?
L131[11:53:40] <Corded> > <Redston​eParkour> would perhaps pregenerating the chunk by having a chunkload…
L132[11:53:40] <ein​Beo> yes!
L133[11:54:17] <ein​Beo> that is actually a more general and lightweight solution than the "generate a large part of the world" I was going for
L134[11:55:06] <ein​Beo> if you want a general exploration robot, the Ingenuity Perseverance pair seems like a great strategy
L135[11:56:42] <Re​nno> so you are using a chunk loader in the robot too?
L136[11:57:27] <ein​Beo> indeed
L137[11:57:45] <ein​Beo> that's how it goes off on its own for thousands of blocks
L138[11:59:34] <Re​nno> have you measured its exact position in the chunk before it gets deleted?
L139[11:59:41] <ein​Beo> it's inconsistent
L140[11:59:44] <Re​nno> and/or the time for that to happen?
L141[11:59:52] <ein​Beo> also inconsistent
L142[12:00:20] <ein​Beo> I believe it's due to inconsistencies on the chunkloading ticket updates; the ticket covers a 3x3 region around the robot but is only updated occaisionally
L143[12:00:22] <Re​nno> is time to success a big factor in this project or can it go a little slower?
L144[12:01:35] <Amanda> @Renno they're still probably charging less than the company spent in tokens to make the mess in the first place.
L145[12:01:40] <ein​Beo> no success factor, it is not avoidable by going slower. What I think is happening is that the robot moves near a meteor, not loading the meteor yet, then at some point loading the meteor, which affects not just the meteors chunk but also adjacent chunks, which the robot is in
L146[12:02:16] <Corded> > <Ama​nda> @Renno they're still probably charging less than the compan…
L147[12:02:16] <Re​nno> that sounds like the company is losing by paying more than before to both parties... ?
L148[12:02:32] <Amanda> Almost as if LLMs are a net loss to society!
L149[12:02:41] <Re​nno> you keep moving the goal post
L150[12:03:10] <Re​nno> are you for the company making more profit or less?
L151[12:03:25] <Re​nno> I'm confused as to what your position is other than fill in the blank to be anti LLM
L152[12:03:58] <Amanda> LLMs are a waste of water, electricity, and human time. That's my position.
L153[12:05:09] <Re​nno> that's a fair opinion but making up claims and statements that are inconsistent simply for the sake of making claims and statements and changing them to fit that end is concerning
L154[12:06:26] <Amanda> So now my posiiton is a "claim" not a position I'm holding? Got is.
L155[12:06:30] <Amanda> Got it*
L156[12:06:47] <Re​nno> no, you have your position, you made claims prior that are inconsistent
L157[12:07:48] <Re​nno> > LLMs are a method of taking the skilled and using it for wealth, while denying wealth to the skilled.
L158[12:07:48] <Re​nno> then you say that the people with skill are literally charging double what they would normally prior to LLMs to do work literally caused by LLMs
L159[12:09:27] <Amanda> That doens't make LLMs good. It means human time is being wasted cleaning up the output of the plagerism machine.
L160[12:10:10] <Amanda> Because some share holder thought a bubblewand was a replacemtn for skilled work.
L161[12:15:11] <Forec​aster> The statement that they're using the prior work of skilled people through LLMs to make money and the statement that other people make money off of correcting mistakes made by LLMs can both be true at the same time can't they?
L162[12:19:00] <Corded> > <Redston​eParkour> would perhaps pregenerating the chunk by having a chunkload…
L163[12:19:00] <ein​Beo> I underestimated the world size when pregenerating such massive regions of the world. This drone approach might actually be one I end up using
L164[12:19:11] <Corded> > <ein​Beo> * massive regions of the world as I was planning.
L165[12:23:33] <Corded> > <Forec​aster> The statement that they're using the prior work of skilled …
L166[12:23:33] <Re​nno> sure can be, but the framing of that statement was specifically that it results in less money for the skilled which was immediately contradicted. the only thing that changed aside from apparently double the money was the way in which they used skills to make that money
L167[12:28:21] <Forec​aster> It's a fact that the people who's work the LLMs have absorbed don't receive one penny in compensation
L168[12:29:25] <Forec​aster> the fact that some people are making money correcting LLM mistakes is a separate thing
L169[12:30:09] <Corded> > <Forec​aster> It's a fact that the people who's work the LLMs have absorb…
L170[12:30:09] <Re​nno> iirc that is actually untrue as of this year, though it was a shitty deal, I recall something about Anthropic specifically losing a lawsuit and having to pay up.
L171[12:30:27] <Amanda> ... to book publishers.
L172[12:30:38] <Amanda> and only becuase they used torrented books
L173[12:30:47] <Amanda> so now they're destroying books to feed into the machine instead
L174[12:31:30] <Re​nno> they finished doing that some time ago
L175[12:31:43] <RedstoneParkour> the scrapers persist t
L176[12:31:51] <RedstoneParkour> though*
L177[12:33:06] <Amanda> The judge specifically refused to rule wether the ingestion was infringement on it's own, they just ruled that you can't use torrented/"stolen" media for it
L178[12:40:13] <RedstoneParkour> anyways i'd say the whole llm thing is bad because it takes a lot from the commons yet gives
L179[12:40:20] <RedstoneParkour> not much back
L180[12:45:07] <Re​nno> would you say that Adobe's business model being reverse engineered and open sourced for all to use as giving back?
L181[12:45:23] <Amanda> I don't see that project lasting
L182[12:45:33] <Re​nno> does that answer the question?
L183[12:46:57] <Re​nno> an alternative but similar question is that of the gaming innovations that have happened lately. Many many old and unsupported games have been revived and all kinds of new gaming mashups and possibilites are now available to the average person. many games and even whole consoles have been reverse engineered and given back to people for
L184[12:46:58] <Corded> free
L185[12:48:09] <Forec​aster> if that's worth people suffering for you that's fine I guess, I'm sure the people forced to live next to data centers really appreciate all these games they can play now
L186[12:48:20] <Amanda> "free"
L187[12:49:07] <Re​nno> and speaking for myself personally, I have benefitted greatly in time savings. I no longer have to sit here and do many hours, days, weeks, or months of agonizing manual testing and instead can just point an LLM at it and have it test it up to my standards so that it gets like 90 to 99% of the stuff handled in like a day with almost 0
L188[12:49:07] <Corded> agony on my part
L189[12:49:34] <Forec​aster> that's very selfish of you
L190[12:49:43] <Re​nno> selfish? 😂
L191[12:49:47] <Amanda> Some of us actually like to code.
L192[12:50:26] <Forec​aster> what you just said I read as "I don't care about the suffering and other stuff, it's convenient for me"
L193[12:50:46] <Re​nno> well that would be a misreading
L194[12:51:03] <Corded> > <Ama​nda> Some of us actually like to code.
L195[12:51:03] <Re​nno> I like the engineering and the systems design, I personally don't care much about manually typing everything. I like results
L196[12:51:05] <unit​azer> farmer complaining that a combine does his job better (1826)
L197[12:51:13] <Re​nno> when I want type, I practice on speedtypingonline.com
L198[12:52:59] <Corded> > <Forec​aster> if that's worth people suffering for you that's fine I gues…
L199[12:53:00] <Re​nno> I happen to live next to one
L200[12:53:10] <Re​nno> it's here regardless of whether I want it or not
L201[12:53:18] <Re​nno> so I might as well get my use out of it
L202[12:54:40] <unit​azer> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717498714259980378/1417994562600702042/YT7HVX0IBJH4QA8JD.gif
L203[12:54:40] <unit​azer> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717498714259980378/1417994562600702042/YT7HVX0IBJH4QA8JD.gif
L204[12:58:16] <Forec​aster> I'm not talking about you specifically, but whatever
L205[12:58:18] <Forec​aster> 🙂
L206[12:59:09] <Forec​aster> a certain statement I made earlier comes back to mind...
L207[12:59:42] <Re​nno> I'm not sure how you mean you're not talking about me specifically when you said I was selfish?
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L216[17:20:42] <Spider​EveryOS> %tonkout
L217[17:20:43] <MichiBot> Blast! S​piderEveryOS! You beat your own previous record of 9h 9m 39s (By 3h 14m 25s)! I hope you're happy!
L218[17:20:43] <MichiBot> S​piderEveryOS has tonked out! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.012 tonk points! plus 0.022 bonus points for consecutive hours! Current score: 3.50767703, Position #1
L219[21:57:51] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@2001:4647:af75:0:c545:7d7c:25ec:ace4) (Quit: Insert quantum chemistry joke here)
L220[22:26:17] ⇦ Quits: RedstoneParkour (~RedstoneP@109.36.230.114) (Ping timeout: 194 seconds)
L221[22:29:21] *** Joins: RedstoneParkour (~RedstoneP@109.36.225.106) RedstoneParkour
L222[22:50:49] <TransGal48722> aww I missed the slop discussion
L223[22:57:48] ⇦ Quits: RedstoneParkour (~RedstoneP@109.36.225.106) (Ping timeout: 201 seconds)
L224[23:00:50] *** Joins: RedstoneParkour (~RedstoneP@109.36.225.250) RedstoneParkour
L225[23:12:05] <Spider​EveryOS> %tonk
L226[23:12:05] <MichiBot> Fiddlesticks! S​piderEveryOS! You beat your own previous record of 0s (By 5h 51m 22s)! I hope you're happy!
L227[23:12:06] <MichiBot> SpiderEveryOS's new record is 5h 51m 22s! No points gained for stealing from yourself. (Lost out on 0.00586)
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