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L1[00:00:15] <Ne​uro> ridiculous that software is so fat these days 3gb and 8 cores cannot play a card game
L2[00:00:29] <luna​r_sam> that's a problem with laptops too
L3[00:00:35] <luna​r_sam> why is my laptop
L4[00:00:42] <luna​r_sam> which is as powerful if not more than my old desktop
L5[00:00:45] <luna​r_sam> not able to run games
L6[00:00:58] <Ne​uro> le texture and fidelity bloating
L7[00:01:23] <Izaya> meanwhile, rimworld
L8[00:01:25] <Izaya> *burns your CPU*
L9[00:01:41] <Ne​uro> my laptop can run pretty much everything I want (even decently demanding things like NMS or E:D)
L10[00:01:54] <Ne​uro> but it is powerful for a laptop, and decently new
L11[00:01:57] <Izaya> my X220 can run everything I want
L12[00:02:07] <Izaya> because I have a fast local network and can stream from my desktop
L13[00:02:09] <Izaya> :^)
L14[00:02:25] <luna​r_sam> i have a recent-ish laptop
L15[00:02:27] <Ne​uro> never really gotten desktop streaming
L16[00:02:30] <Ne​uro> just use the desktop
L17[00:02:33] <luna​r_sam> some asus laptop
L18[00:02:42] <Izaya> okay but my desktop puts out like 500W of heat
L19[00:02:49] <Izaya> I don't wanna be anywhere near that in summer
L20[00:02:50] <luna​r_sam> with an A12-9720P APU
L21[00:03:01] <Ne​uro> I mean being able to remote is nice, but then you deal with really not great connections
L22[00:03:11] <Ne​uro> if you are local the connection can be fantastic but then just . . why
L23[00:03:27] <Izaya> I want to lay on the tile floor in the bathroom and play muh games
L24[00:04:01] <Izaya> or outside
L25[00:04:44] <Ne​uro> havent owned a desktop in a while either way
L26[00:04:50] <Ne​uro> I had one for a bit, didnt use it much.
L27[00:05:07] <Izaya> you know what I do have trouble wrapping my head around
L28[00:05:10] <Ne​uro> or more accurately, used it a decent bit, but didnt do much that a laptop couldnt do
L29[00:05:13] <Izaya> how people live without ssh
L30[00:05:36] <Ne​uro> I mean I only own a laptop and a phone
L31[00:05:40] <Ne​uro> what am I sshing into exactly
L32[00:05:56] <Izaya> it allows for convenient file transfer in such a case via sftp
L33[00:06:32] <Izaya> though given your phone is probably android, probably not
L34[00:06:38] <Ne​uro> 🤷‍♂️ it's not that much effort to plug my phone in with USB to move files regardless
L35[00:06:48] <Izaya> adb is like a whole thing though
L36[00:06:56] <Ne​uro> only needs to be done so often whenever I want to add some totally legally obtained music
L37[00:08:16] <Ne​uro> I have always gotten the sense that a lot of people who build increasingly elaborate home networks do so much more for the purpose of building them than using their potential features. kind of like the people who really like building pcs
L38[00:08:28] <Izaya> like ssh/sftp support is the single biggest convenience feature I care about because I can deal with everything the same way
L39[00:08:54] <Izaya> I don't need special snowflake tools to copy shit to/from my e-reader or phone or whatever, I just sftp the files over the local network
L40[00:09:28] <Ne​uro> everyone has like twelve laptops, three desktops, switching and networking out the ass, what you doin with all that stuff
L41[00:09:37] <Ne​uro> everyone has like twelve laptops, three desktops, switches and networking out the ass, what you doin with all that stuff [Edited]
L42[00:09:45] <Izaya> running game servers, mostly
L43[00:09:50] <Ne​uro> (oh and dont forget the five separate nas backup modules)
L44[00:10:06] <luna​r_sam> lots of server stuff
L45[00:10:09] <Izaya> https://social.shadowkat.net/xmpp/upload/AhUhX6lYMjCIiJ_x/rack.jpg
L46[00:10:20] <luna​r_sam> retro computing on my P3 machine
L47[00:10:21] <luna​r_sam> uhhh
L48[00:10:25] <Ne​uro> i've seen that yeah
L49[00:10:26] <Izaya> ARK servers are obnoxiously heavy
L50[00:10:35] <luna​r_sam> got a laptop just to use SPICE or SSH onto my boxes
L51[00:10:54] <luna​r_sam> have plenty of reasons for the stuff i have
L52[00:10:59] <Kristo​pher38> heavy because the server hosting them itself is heavy, am i right??
L53[00:11:13] <Ne​uro> I'm sure lots of people rly do need the hardware, storage, power, etc
L54[00:11:30] <Ne​uro> often times when you read those types of posts tho, you dont get that feeling
L55[00:11:36] <Ne​uro> it just looks hollow, empty
L56[00:11:42] <Ne​uro> solution looking for a problem
L57[00:11:49] <Izaya> I'll also note that I'm only beholden to my ISP for all the services I use on a daily basis
L58[00:12:02] <Izaya> given they're all in the same room as me
L59[00:12:20] <Izaya> so when stuff's down it's usually because I broke it
L60[00:12:21] <Ne​uro> yes I'm pretty sure you also told me that before
L61[00:13:04] <Ne​uro> unfortunately any individual's ability to do that strongly depends on whether or not they want to do, well, lots of things
L62[00:13:20] <Ne​uro> if I wanna play EVE, I am now beholden to CCP (and cloudflare). 0 ways around that.
L63[00:13:42] <Kristo​pher38> the Izaya's solution would be to not play EVE
L64[00:13:47] <Kristo​pher38> x)
L65[00:13:52] <Izaya> you are correct, I do not play EVE
L66[00:14:00] <Izaya> ergo I do not have this problem
L67[00:14:04] <Izaya> :^)
L68[00:14:26] <Ne​uro> what can I say
L69[00:14:30] <Ne​uro> stop worrying and love the cloud 😛
L70[00:14:41] * Izaya shakes fist at cloud
L71[00:15:17] <Hawk777> NEVER
L72[00:15:21] <Hawk777> NEVER LOVE THE CLOUD
L73[00:15:34] <Izaya> why should I love other people's computers over my own?
L74[00:15:40] <Izaya> my computers need love too
L75[00:16:17] <Ne​uro> I never said anything about relative quantities of love. Anyway, it's just a dr strangelove joke
L76[00:16:46] <Izaya> I'm aware
L77[00:16:50] <luna​r_sam> yes
L78[00:16:57] <luna​r_sam> anyways, my workstation was built because
L79[00:16:58] <luna​r_sam> hey
L80[00:17:05] <luna​r_sam> i write a lot of C and compile a lot of C
L81[00:17:20] <luna​r_sam> i wanted a raytracing card just to dick with raytracing but whoops GPU shortage
L82[00:17:33] <luna​r_sam> other than that i don't really play intensive games
L83[00:17:40] <Ne​uro> time to pay a random scalper $2000
L84[00:17:41] <luna​r_sam> the most intensive game i normally play is like, what
L85[00:17:43] <luna​r_sam> titanfall 2?
L86[00:17:51] <luna​r_sam> maybe project wingman
L87[00:17:55] <Izaya> those 6800XTs do look nice
L88[00:17:59] <Izaya> but also I'd prefer a car for that price
L89[00:18:03] <luna​r_sam> yeah
L90[00:18:13] <luna​r_sam> that shit's as expensive as the rest of my PC
L91[00:18:14] <luna​r_sam> combined
L92[00:18:16] <Ne​uro> titanfall 2, my man
L93[00:18:22] <Ne​uro> I played that a lot on my desktop, when I had it
L94[00:18:50] <Izaya> if I bought a graphics card now it would be like 4x the price of my whole computer, including GPU
L95[00:19:14] <Ne​uro> yeah . .
L96[00:19:20] <Ne​uro> doesnt look like it will be getting better anytime soon
L97[00:19:42] <Izaya> I imagine when the pressure eases NVIDIA and such will maintain the same prices
L98[00:19:59] <Ne​uro> the inflated prices? idk not really
L99[00:20:04] <luna​r_sam> uh
L100[00:20:05] <luna​r_sam> what
L101[00:20:12] <luna​r_sam> yeah, these prices are pretty inflated
L102[00:20:20] <Izaya> I imagine it won't be quite as bad
L103[00:20:23] <Amanda> They're... already limiting production to keep the prices up.
L104[00:20:25] <Izaya> but it won't return to pre-shortage levels
L105[00:20:40] <Ne​uro> has the msrp even changed at all?
L106[00:20:49] <Ne​uro> I mean, nvidia doesnt exactly gain if scalpers are making bank
L107[00:21:28] <Ne​uro> likewise while it's weak, there is competition. especially if you wanna speculatively throw in intel with their whole graphics card thingy
L108[00:21:52] <Ne​uro> prices will rise because, well, they always do, but I don't think it'll be so harsh
L109[00:26:44] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@200116b814bf4b00fe3497fffea975f2.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 192 seconds)
L110[00:29:51] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-131-75.dynamic.as20676.net) (Quit: Insert quantum chemistry joke here)
L111[00:31:53] <luna​r_sam> AAAAAAAAAA
L112[00:31:54] <luna​r_sam> god
L113[00:31:57] <luna​r_sam> that was a titanfall match
L114[00:35:55] <Amanda> %choose laptop nap time?
L115[00:35:58] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: I talked to the Swedish Chef, he said "Bork bork!" I think that means yes?
L116[00:36:16] * Amanda meow-meows at the sweedish chef
L117[00:38:56] <dequbed> Izaya: Just be a cloud provider then it's not other peoples computers :P
L118[00:39:23] <Ne​uro> https://xkcd.com/908/
L119[00:43:12] <Izaya> https://social.shadowkat.net/media/75caf8d1959223164686ff3439c9c7ea8f375c17a4ed56da8ea9a12030e7e087.jpg
L120[00:43:44] <Ne​uro> hey it's miku
L121[00:43:55] <Izaya> soviet miku, even
L122[00:53:05] <Izaya> Ocawesome101: oh did you see, MMS support in Chatty is in beta now?
L123[00:57:53] <Amanda> "It's entirely possible it's just a folk figure name, like Robin Hood or president Obama"
L124[00:58:03] <Amanda> Oh lily, you rapscallion
L125[01:02:50] <luna​r_sam> i am tired of carrying the fucking team
L126[01:02:59] <luna​r_sam> only for them to continually steal my titan kills
L127[01:06:05] <Ne​uro> honestly im just surprised the game isnt dead yet
L128[01:06:20] <Ne​uro> was always very fun
L129[01:06:43] <Ne​uro> was also quite good at it too which is obviously also nice
L130[01:16:03] <luna​r_sam> man
L131[01:16:11] <luna​r_sam> games are usually a steamroll one way or the other
L132[01:16:46] <Ne​uro> maybe cause low pop imba matchmaking
L133[01:16:58] <Ne​uro> it was quite consistent for me when I played some time back
L134[01:17:14] <Ne​uro> occasionally the game would see fit to dump some absolute god gamer in and youd either autowin or get dumped
L135[01:23:47] <Amanda> %tell Inari "we know you don't have a lot of options" https://nc.ddna.co/s/xM62dSwE5R5Xmrq
L136[01:23:52] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Inari will be notified of this message when next seen.
L137[01:24:58] <Amanda> %choose irradiate or rain box first
L138[01:25:04] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Out of these two choices? I'd say "rain box first".
L139[01:28:45] <luna​r_sam> HOW THE FUCK TO DCTS WORK
L140[01:29:33] <Amanda> Direct Cat Transmission Scritchies? Easy, you just provide Scritchies to a cat, and we pur
L141[01:30:30] <luna​r_sam> no
L142[01:30:46] <Ne​uro> we
L143[01:30:49] <luna​r_sam> discrete cosine transform
L144[01:33:18] <Ne​uro> the compression method?
L145[01:44:54] <luna​r_sam> yes
L146[01:45:03] * dequbed gives all the scritches to Amanda
L147[01:46:24] <Ne​uro> making your own implementation or what?
L148[01:51:28] <Izaya> dual clutch transmission
L149[02:01:58] * Amanda purrs softly for dequbed
L150[02:03:57] <luna​r_sam> @Neuro yes! i actually planned to! i wanted to know how it worked so i could do it
L151[02:04:10] <luna​r_sam> i had a cursed idea and i need to make sure it's possib
L152[02:04:12] <luna​r_sam> *possible
L153[02:04:27] <Ne​uro> well PS2 is turing complete so everything is possible
L154[02:04:35] <luna​r_sam> oh i mean like
L155[02:04:35] <Ne​uro> real question is is it good
L156[02:04:38] <luna​r_sam> if it's worth doing
L157[02:04:51] <luna​r_sam> since the main thing i wanna do is reduce texture size on disk
L158[02:04:54] <Ne​uro> DCT is a very good compression schema
L159[02:05:04] <Ne​uro> minimal loss, decent compression ratios
L160[02:05:24] <Ne​uro> that said, I cannot hope to estimate personally how well a PS2 would do streaming textures through it
L161[02:05:28] <Ne​uro> something I imagine you are implying
L162[02:05:37] <luna​r_sam> fairly well, actually
L163[02:05:46] <Ne​uro> there are probably more specific compression methods designed for such ideas you could try
L164[02:06:44] <Ne​uro> as for the actual process, you just do some quick maffs
L165[02:07:22] <Ne​uro> of course the quick maffs looks like this https://tinyurl.com/ye2ffwtv
L166[02:07:24] <Ne​uro> but its not as bad as it looks
L167[02:10:27] <Ne​uro> @lunar_sam if you don't already have a good resource, this is a good breakdown: http://blogsmayan.blogspot.com/p/ana.html
L168[02:10:51] <Ne​uro> full breakdown of theory, goes into coding, methods, etc etc
L169[02:11:06] <luna​r_sam> if you turn it into C or Lua, i can understand it
L170[02:11:17] <Ne​uro> it is in C
L171[02:11:31] <luna​r_sam> oh
L172[02:11:35] <luna​r_sam> didn't scroll down far enough
L173[02:11:36] <Ne​uro> in part
L174[02:11:41] <Ne​uro> there's also bits in ASM
L175[02:11:50] <Ne​uro> it's specific to RPI so you might need to swap instructions around
L176[02:13:28] <Ne​uro> I would advise attempting to understand it tho
L177[02:13:32] <Ne​uro> instead of jumping to the C code
L178[02:18:26] <luna​r_sam> alright
L179[02:19:11] <Ne​uro> I wont pretend its easy to understand or even that I understand it particularly well myself
L180[02:19:16] <Ne​uro> but hey, fourier transforms are magic
L181[02:21:24] <Ne​uro> DCT is also what allows for things like JPEGs interlaced image streaming
L182[02:22:05] <Ne​uro> so the fact that you load lower quality versions of an image and then have higher quality versions stack on top as you download them
L183[02:22:23] <Ne​uro> bad compression formats like gif or png use pixel interlacing which is boring
L184[02:22:40] <Ne​uro> jpeg uses frequency decomposition which is an aspect of DSP
L185[03:08:51] <Amanda> %choose betray some animals or zzzmew
L186[03:08:51] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Eeny, meeny, miny, zzzmew.
L187[03:09:15] <Amanda> Hey... MichiBot... Wake up, you need to an- oooohhhhh
L188[03:09:52] * Amanda checks on elfi among her floof, making sure she stays hydrated, curls up and zzzmews
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L191[03:53:22] ⇦ Parts: lunar_sam (d83d0855c1@jabberfr.org) ())
L192[04:10:29] <Ocawes​ome101> Izaya: RE MMS support: yeah i saw, i'm excited for it to land so i can receive pictures (thanks, USA)
L193[04:10:58] <Izaya> look at the upside
L194[04:11:10] <Izaya> MMS may be stupid
L195[04:11:21] <Izaya> but at least MMS is standard and not vendor lock-in shit like all the IM things people use
L196[04:11:32] <Ocawes​ome101> trie
L197[04:11:34] <Ocawes​ome101> true*
L198[04:12:19] <Izaya> so as inconvenient as it is, at least you don't have to compromise your freedom to use it
L199[04:13:36] <Ocawes​ome101> i'll just assume it will take another 6 months or so to be properly really reliable, like with SMS
L200[04:13:48] <Izaya> (beyond depending on a service provider, that is)
L201[04:13:55] <Izaya> probably
L202[04:14:08] <Izaya> but hey, at least your SMS buffer won't get filled with MMS notifications you can't do anything with :D
L203[04:14:41] <Ocawes​ome101> true
L204[04:14:52] <Ocawes​ome101> i think i've got one or two in there right now, not enough to cause issues
L205[04:15:04] <Izaya> yeah as long as you nuke them every few months it's fine
L206[04:15:24] <Ocawes​ome101> i haven't had to do that actually
L207[04:15:59] <Izaya> my service provider does voicemail as MMS messages which is nice! but I can't use it until I get MMS support again, so voicemails just make useless notifications in the SMS buffer
L208[04:16:07] <Izaya> >.>
L209[04:48:19] <Ocawes​ome101> TIL that `wolfenstein3d` happens to be an AUR package
L210[04:48:30] <Ocawes​ome101> it installs it through dosbox :P
L211[04:50:28] <Izaya> surely there's a source port
L212[05:37:29] <Izaya> @Ariri around?
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L216[06:28:53] <Va​ur> %tonk
L217[06:29:43] <Vaur> %ping
L218[06:30:12] <Vaur> rip
L219[06:35:34] <MichiBot> Waesucks! Va​ur! You beat your own previous record of <0 (By 12 hours, 5 minutes and 5 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L220[06:35:35] <MichiBot> Vaur's new record is 12 hours, 5 minutes and 5 seconds! No points gained for stealing from yourself. (Lost out on 0.01208)
L221[06:36:17] <MichiBot> Ping reply from Va​ur 0.17s
L222[06:46:06] <Ocawes​ome101> Izaya: yeah, ecwolf
L223[06:47:45] <Ar​iri> >Izaya: <@335186179521642498> around?
L224[06:47:45] <Ar​iri> yeah sorta
L225[06:47:47] <Ar​iri> what’s up?
L226[06:48:21] ⇦ Quits: Izaya (~izaya@210.1.218.92) (Ping timeout: 195 seconds)
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L228[06:54:24] <Ar​iri> >Amanda: same from Ariri
L229[06:54:25] <Ar​iri> are you trying to toot my fedi? my instance host nuked the domain without warning so i don’t have one anymore :p
L230[06:56:08] <Ar​iri> >surface to air missile: <@!335186179521642498>
L231[06:56:08] <Ar​iri> https://tenor.com/view/chuckles-im-in-danger-ralph-wiggum-the-simpsons-gif-14149962
L232[07:01:39] <luna​r_sam> YEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAW
L233[07:33:57] ⇦ Parts: lunar_sam (d83d0855c1@2a00:c70:1:178:170:40:189:1) ())
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L239[07:52:24] <Izaya> @Ariri these two interviews make some interesting points about vtubers I hadn't considered https://teletype.in/@kati_lilian/SJA8KwjjN https://teletype.in/@kati_lilian/S1yjBCJgH
L240[08:14:00] ⇦ Quits: Hawk777 (~chead@2607:c000:8274:b100:cdca:bac8:814c:86ad) (Quit: Leaving.)
L241[08:18:37] <Ar​iri> %remindme 16h look at articles from Izaya
L242[08:18:46] <Ar​iri> gotta sleep early, busy day tomorrow
L243[08:18:51] <Izaya> sleeb well
L244[08:19:04] <Ar​iri> %remindme 16hr look at articles from Izay
L245[08:19:13] <Ar​iri> am dum?
L246[08:19:25] <Izaya> %remind Ariri articles
L247[08:19:28] <Ar​iri> thank thank Izzie
L248[08:19:30] <Izaya> %remindthem Ariri articles
L249[08:19:39] <Izaya> \o/
L250[08:20:12] <Ar​iri> ¯\(ツ)/¯
L251[08:20:15] <Ar​iri> i’ll remember
L252[08:25:13] <MichiBot> I'll tell you "look at articles from Izaya" in 16h at 11/21/2021 12:25:11 AM
L253[08:25:38] <MichiBot> Ar​iri: Unable to parse "16hr" as a time string.
L254[08:26:00] <MichiBot> Iz​aya: Unable to parse "Ariri" as a time string.
L255[08:26:03] <MichiBot> Iz​aya: Invalid arguments. %remindthem Nick:string Time:string Message:string
L256[08:26:13] <Izaya> ._.
L257[08:26:42] <Ar​iri> oof
L258[08:27:10] <Izaya> looks like misskey is getting a mascot
L259[08:27:17] <Izaya> https://s3.arkjp.net/misskey/webpublic-ca9a3285-9420-4bb4-83dd-de941f6dd992.png
L260[08:59:52] <Izaya> %tell Ariri https://media.gameliberty.club/media/media_attachments/files/107/308/551/051/833/856/original/130cce755e49a6a2.jpeg
L261[09:06:25] <MichiBot> Iz​aya: Ariri will be notified of this message when next seen.
L262[09:06:31] ⇨ Joins: Pawel (~Pawel@193.169.19.84)
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L267[10:26:18] <Lucyna> heelo
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L270[11:47:21] <epicgamer59> hi guys
L271[11:48:06] <Inari> nep
L272[11:48:14] <epicgamer59> what does nep mean
L273[11:49:07] <Inari> it means nep
L274[11:49:08] <Inari> also hm
L275[11:49:12] <Inari> the bot said it had tells for me
L276[11:49:23] * Inari pokes MichiBot
L277[11:49:57] <Inari> %sip
L278[11:50:23] <epicgamer59> sipsipsipsisooprcitrpcj
L279[11:50:30] <Inari> ah, it was just slow
L280[11:50:40] <Izaya> yeah it seems to be having ... issues
L281[11:50:51] <epicgamer59> ima get a coffee
L282[11:55:06] <epicgamer59> ok i am back
L283[11:55:36] ⇦ Quits: epicgamer59 (kiwiirc@59.153.28.46) (Quit: Connection closed)
L284[11:56:31] <MichiBot> You drink a fiery yellow potion (New!). Everything Inari says is now in Wingdings until they use "Noir" in a sentence.
L285[12:02:06] <Inari> Amanda: not a lot of options?
L286[12:16:26] ⇨ Joins: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-131-75.dynamic.as20676.net)
L287[12:16:26] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L288[12:33:57] ⇦ Quits: alekso56 (~cax@2001:464b:c21a:0:745d:45ff:fe3b:a098) (Ping timeout: 375 seconds)
L289[12:34:53] ⇨ Joins: alekso56 (~cax@2001:464b:c21a:0:745d:45ff:fe3b:a098)
L290[14:13:41] <Va​ur> >MichiBot: Ping reply from Va​ur 0.17s
L291[14:13:41] <Va​ur> You ... sit on a throne of LIES ! 😄
L292[14:17:36] <Va​ur> %sip
L293[14:20:31] <Vaur> %sip
L294[14:20:39] <Vaur> %ping
L295[14:21:21] <Ne​uro> ?
L296[14:21:36] <Va​ur> Michibot is having troubles
L297[14:24:09] <MichiBot> You drink a basic aether potion (New!). Vaur feels like one particular wasp has it out for them suddenly.
L298[14:24:30] <Vaur> 7 minutes lag
L299[14:26:20] <Inari> %ping
L300[14:27:11] <MichiBot> Ping reply from Va​ur 0.15s
L301[14:30:01] <Ne​uro> 7 minutes?
L302[14:30:06] <Ne​uro> you installed her on the moon or what
L303[14:30:06] <Ne​uro> lol
L304[14:31:36] <Amanda> Inari: click the link
L305[14:32:53] <MichiBot> Ping reply from In​ari 0.62s
L306[14:32:53] <Inari> Amanda: i don't get it :P Though I always just catch them as they fall
L307[14:34:01] * Amanda checks herself for signs of a stroke, be ause she has no idea what's going on
L308[14:40:49] <Amanda> Inari: catch what as they fall? Are we talking about the same tell?
L309[14:41:06] <Inari> Amanda: wasps?
L310[14:41:29] <Inari> in AC
L311[14:41:32] <Amanda> Inari: No, I was replying to this
L312[14:41:56] <Inari> theres no link on the second tell
L313[14:42:46] <Amanda> ... damn it @forecaster what'd you break now
L314[14:43:17] <Amanda> %tell Inari "we know you don't have a lot of options" https://nc.ddna.co/s/xM62dSwE5R5Xmrq
L315[14:43:31] <Inari> weird
L316[14:43:38] <Amanda> ... I only meant to copy the link there
L317[14:43:43] <Inari> xD
L318[14:43:57] <Inari> the last tell arrived for me as "[12:50:17] *MichiBot* Amanda in #oc said: we know you don't have a lot of options on Nov 20 @ 01:23 UTC"
L319[14:44:06] <Amanda> Oh
L320[14:44:14] <Inari> And I see :p
L321[14:44:23] <Inari> sounds like internet providers in the US from what I hear tbh
L322[14:44:35] <Amanda> It's because the quotes
L323[14:45:13] <Forec​aster> Corded avatars are wonky as well, so it's some kind of connection issue https://tinyurl.com/ye86gght
L324[14:45:42] <Amanda> This is why chat bots should use pseudo-natural language, not strict argument parsers
L325[14:48:16] <Amanda> Inari: Pretty much, yeah
L326[14:49:51] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Inari will be notified of this message when next seen.
L327[14:52:02] <Inari> neat
L328[15:13:42] * Amanda beams all of Inari's socks into the wrong drawer of her dresser
L329[15:13:53] <Inari> rude
L330[15:28:25] <Forec​aster> %sip
L331[15:29:10] <Forec​aster> oh, neat, TheLounge's webIRC client embeds images now, that's new
L332[15:34:58] <MichiBot> You drink a diluted silver potion (New!). Forecaster's favourite skin is suddenly on fire.
L333[15:35:10] <Forec​aster> that wasn't worth the wait >:
L334[15:42:15] * Amanda confescates the arcane realm's lighters
L335[15:50:30] <Va​ur> %sip
L336[15:57:03] <MichiBot> You drink a sedimented apple potion (New!). A tiny cloud appears with a ridiculous smile on it. It follows Vaur until they have A Fluffy potion.
L337[15:57:43] ⇦ Quits: Renari (~Renari@64.67.31.239.res-cmts.bgr.ptd.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L338[16:44:13] <Brisingr​Aerowing> %sip
L339[16:50:46] <MichiBot> You drink a forked rubium potion (New!). BrisingrAerowing gains the proportional strength of a water until they have some bacon.
L340[16:53:55] <Brisingr​Aerowing> That took a bit.
L341[16:54:10] <Brisingr​Aerowing> Wonder what got borked.
L342[17:01:43] <Ocawes​ome101> today i found this gem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XFBUM8dMqw
L343[17:04:10] <MichiBot> Dover Police DashCam Confessional (Shake it Off) | length: 4m 12s | Likes: 276,888 Dislikes: 5,724 Views: 44,981,848 | by Dover Police | Published On 16/1/2015
L344[17:21:29] ⇨ Joins: lunar_sam (d83d0855c1@2a00:c70:1:178:170:40:189:1)
L345[17:26:38] ⇨ Joins: flappy (~flappy@91-154-0-54.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
L346[17:27:47] ⇨ Joins: Hawk777 (~chead@2607:c000:8274:b100:cdca:bac8:814c:86ad)
L347[18:21:24] ⇦ Quits: SlimeDiamond (~slime@basher.zenoc.net) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L348[18:22:35] ⇦ Quits: TPG24 (~ThePiGuy2@host-92-17-127-228.as13285.net) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L349[18:38:12] ⇨ Joins: SlimeDiamond (~slime@basher.zenoc.net)
L350[18:58:42] ⇨ Joins: ThePiGuy24 (~ThePiGuy2@host-92-17-127-228.as13285.net)
L351[19:08:44] <Forec​aster> %tonkout
L352[19:15:16] <MichiBot> Eureka! Forec​aster! You beat Va​ur's previous record of 12 hours, 5 minutes and 5 seconds (By 34 minutes and 36 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L353[19:15:17] <MichiBot> Forec​aster has stolen the tonkout! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.012 tonk points! plus 0.011 bonus points for consecutive hours! (Reduced to 50% because stealing) Current score: 3.7795301. Position #2 Need 0.47935254 more points to pass Va​ur!
L354[19:19:02] <JP​S91> How to paste in a code that is longer then 275 lines?
L355[19:19:38] <Forec​aster> first you recite the entirety of the constitution, then the whole bible, then you edit the config
L356[19:20:50] <JP​S91> 😅
L357[19:33:26] <Ne​uro> don't you love it when designs are just . . beautiful? https://tinyurl.com/yz6lab44
L358[19:34:40] <Ne​uro> (not complete, obvs)
L359[19:38:39] <Mic​hiyo> %test
L360[19:43:01] <MichiBot> Mic​hiyo: No.
L361[19:43:10] <Mic​hiyo> impressive
L362[19:43:33] <Ne​uro> pfff
L363[19:43:38] <Forec​aster> only 5 minutes, the tonkout took 7
L364[19:47:34] <Mic​hiyo> %test
L365[19:48:04] <Mic​hiyo> Ok... CPU usage is now damn near 0 on this machine
L366[19:48:05] <Mic​hiyo> wtf
L367[19:48:24] <Forec​aster> corded avatars were being wonky earlier too
L368[19:48:29] <Forec​aster> not loading randomly
L369[19:48:43] <Forec​aster> https://tinyurl.com/ygfem48r
L370[19:48:45] <Mic​hiyo> Yeah, well right now they 100% won't load
L371[19:50:15] <Mic​hiyo> Load is 0.69 (nice)
L372[19:50:19] <Ne​uro> so any idea whats causing it?
L373[19:50:31] <Mic​hiyo> The avatars not loading? I shut down the webserver
L374[19:50:37] <Mic​hiyo> the slowness? not a clue
L375[19:50:41] <Ne​uro> the slowness
L376[19:50:50] <Ne​uro> I mean, one things network problem, but it almost seems too slow for that
L377[19:50:59] ⇦ Quits: MichiBot (~MichiBot@pc-logix.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
L378[19:51:02] <Ne​uro> how does a network packet take 5 minutes to get somewhere over modern internet
L379[19:51:08] <Ne​uro> this isn't the age of dial-up
L380[19:51:12] <Ne​uro> this isn't the age of dial-up anymore [Edited]
L381[19:51:18] <Mic​hiyo> It's not... it's not a network issue.
L382[19:51:35] ⇨ Joins: MichiBot (~MichiBot@pc-logix.com)
L383[19:51:35] zsh sets mode: +v on MichiBot
L384[19:51:44] <Amanda> programs don't instantly reply to every packet they get
L385[19:51:49] <Amanda> not even in the best of cases
L386[19:52:11] <Ne​uro> I mean, one thinks network problem, but it almost seems too slow for that [Edited]
L387[19:52:28] <Amanda> %choose one last hack run?
L388[19:52:36] <dequbed> "almost"? What kind of network are you used to Neuro? o.O
L389[19:52:39] <Forec​aster> the avatar loading before wasn't because the server was shut down though
L390[19:52:54] <Forec​aster> because Inaris loaded right before Amandas
L391[19:53:08] <Ne​uro> dequbed: maybe I should get used to using blunter language around you
L392[19:53:17] <Ne​uro> I was fairly sure it was not a network problem
L393[19:54:11] ⇦ Quits: Corded (~MichiBot@pc-logix.com) ()
L394[19:54:11] ⇦ Quits: MichiBot (~MichiBot@pc-logix.com) (Client Quit)
L395[19:54:53] ⇨ Joins: Michi (~Michi@50.38.53.215)
L396[19:59:33] ⇨ Joins: Neo (~neo@pc-logix.com)
L397[19:59:45] *** Server sets mode: +ntz
L398[19:59:45] <Ne​uro> as usual, rebooting fixes everything
L399[19:59:50] <Michi> test
L400[20:00:08] <Mic​hiyo> Ok, logging is back
L401[20:03:12] <Forec​aster> hooray
L402[20:03:14] <Forec​aster> %sip
L403[20:03:16] <MichiBot> You drink a freezing pearlpeas potion (New!). There's an acidic tinge to the potion... A label on the bottle reads "Who needs internal organs anyway?". Forecaster takes 3d​6 => [4,4,6] acid damage.
L404[20:03:42] <Ne​uro> deth
L405[20:04:21] <Va​ur> %sip
L406[20:04:22] <MichiBot> You drink a shining black potion (New!). Everything Vaur says is now in Wingdings until they say the word "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious".
L407[20:04:34] <Va​ur> Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
L408[20:05:01] <Ne​uro> 💧︎◆︎◻︎♏︎❒︎♍︎♋︎●︎♓︎♐︎❒︎♋︎♑︎♓︎●︎♓︎⬧︎⧫︎♓︎♍︎♏︎⌧︎◻︎♓︎♋︎●︎♓︎♎︎□︎♍︎♓︎□︎◆︎⬧︎
L409[20:21:09] ⇨ Joins: Renari (~Renari@64.67.31.239.res-cmts.bgr.ptd.net)
L410[20:24:41] <Mic​hiyo> %test
L411[20:24:42] <MichiBot> Mic​hiyo: No.
L412[20:27:08] ⇨ Joins: Arimil (~Renari@64.67.31.239.res-cmts.bgr.ptd.net)
L413[20:29:00] ⇦ Quits: Renari (~Renari@64.67.31.239.res-cmts.bgr.ptd.net) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L414[20:47:35] <Va​ur> %sip
L415[20:47:36] <MichiBot> You drink a smooth honey potion (New!). Vaur feels slightly faster.
L416[20:54:32] zsh sets mode: +o on Michi
L417[20:54:35] *** Michi is now known as Michiyo
L418[20:54:44] *** Michiyo is now known as Katie
L419[20:54:51] *** Katie is now known as Caitlyn
L420[20:55:12] *** Caitlyn is now known as Mimiru
L421[21:59:46] ⇨ Joins: TPG24 (~ThePiGuy2@host-92-17-127-228.as13285.net)
L422[22:01:15] ⇦ Quits: ThePiGuy24 (~ThePiGuy2@host-92-17-127-228.as13285.net) (Ping timeout: 195 seconds)
L423[22:21:17] <Ne​uro> hi are we past the whole "redstone I/O still broken" stuff?
L424[22:21:31] <Ne​uro> and if not whats the latest build that isn't broken
L425[22:21:40] <Forec​aster> what do you mean past?
L426[22:21:44] <Forec​aster> nothing's changed
L427[22:22:09] <Forec​aster> someone said build 216 I think
L428[22:22:20] <Ne​uro> well I know there was a period where it was broken
L429[22:22:30] <Ne​uro> I am wondering if that has passed: ie a fixed new dev build has gone through
L430[22:22:31] <Ne​uro> or not
L431[22:22:48] <Forec​aster> there has been no development for several months
L432[22:24:35] <Ne​uro> ah yeah i see the jenkins build dates now
L433[22:27:16] <Ne​uro> trying to update my pack with a few small nice things
L434[22:27:18] <Ne​uro> lets see if it works
L435[22:28:49] <Mimiru> Yeah I *THINK* 216's Redstone IO works
L436[22:28:56] <Ne​uro> well
L437[22:28:58] <Ne​uro> I am about to find out
L438[22:28:59] <Mimiru> if not then it's going to be a build from before 213
L439[22:29:07] <Ne​uro> booting in with 216, gonna run my test program
L440[22:29:12] <Ne​uro> will be pretty obvious if its working or not
L441[22:29:16] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@2001:16b8:1494:f600:fe34:97ff:fea9:75f2) (Quit: Leaving)
L442[22:29:16] <Mimiru> I tracked it down to a specific commit, that I can't find now
L443[22:29:18] <Ne​uro> booting in with 216, gonna run my memory test program [Edited]
L444[22:29:43] <Ne​uro> bit unfortunate that latest build has such a critical bug. I mean it's devtrack so fair game, but still
L445[22:29:55] <Ne​uro> bit unfortunate that latest build for a while has had such a critical bug. I mean it's devtrack so fair game, but still [Edited]
L446[22:30:17] <Forec​aster> I'm not sure I would call it critical
L447[22:30:32] <Forec​aster> a redstone card in an adapter would serve the same function I think
L448[22:30:47] <Mimiru> Does a redstone card in an adapter not have the same issue? I didn't test...
L449[22:30:50] <Ne​uro> the way I've heard it described people are implying cards do not work either
L450[22:30:54] <Forec​aster> or wait, cards don't go in adapters do they, that's just upgrades
L451[22:31:02] <Mimiru> Right
L452[22:31:56] <Forec​aster> I'd assumed it was the redstone block specifically since people have been specifically saying redstone IO and not redstone component
L453[22:32:20] <Mimiru> Well, I'm booting up my 1.12 test pack
L454[22:32:52] <Forec​aster> I can confirm the redstone card works on 213 at least because that's the build I'm using
L455[22:33:31] <Ne​uro> my world is taking an age to load as it always does but once it does I can confirm whether the card works on 216
L456[22:33:43] <Ne​uro> i don't use the block in this world tho so cant there
L457[22:34:04] <Forec​aster> just spawn a block in?
L458[22:34:14] <Ne​uro> yeah it works
L459[22:34:29] <Ne​uro> well I meant in the sense of test it with what I have already set up
L460[22:34:32] <Mimiru> I can't get the redstone card to work in 217
L461[22:34:33] <Ne​uro> sure if you want me to test it in general
L462[22:34:35] <Ne​uro> give me a sec
L463[22:34:49] <Ne​uro> yeah so it must be a problem with the component api as a whole
L464[22:35:57] <Mimiru> yeah setOutput(sides.left, 16) and it just returns 0.0 and doesn't do anything to the redstone
L465[22:36:25] <Mimiru> On both the card, and the block in 217
L466[22:36:36] <Forec​aster> maybe it does when you're not looking!
L467[22:36:39] <Ne​uro> ok the block works on 216
L468[22:36:44] <Ne​uro> can confirm
L469[22:36:58] <Mimiru> So, I need to go try to track down this change again.
L470[22:37:05] <Ne​uro> memory test program returned all positives
L471[22:37:10] <Ne​uro> which is not possible if redstone i/o is broken
L472[22:37:38] <Mimiru> Oh, it's here I think
L473[22:37:39] <Mimiru> https://github.com/MightyPirates/OpenComputers/commit/a1d1834597cc8ca3dc6787da991e519efcbcd510
L474[22:37:41] <Ne​uro> and as for the block https://tinyurl.com/yz4acudj
L475[22:39:07] <Mimiru> I don't know scala so I'm not sure WHY that fails.
L476[22:39:21] <Forec​aster> I have no clue either
L477[22:39:44] <Mimiru> Vexatos, any idea why https://github.com/MightyPirates/OpenComputers/commit/a1d1834597cc8ca3dc6787da991e519efcbcd510 breaks redstone?
L478[22:39:49] <Ne​uro> assuming that's even it, i mean, you never know
L479[22:40:01] <Mimiru> It's the only change to redstone in 217
L480[22:40:04] <Mimiru> and it works in 216
L481[22:55:56] <Vexatos> no idea
L482[22:56:06] <Mimiru> Alright, thanks for looking
L483[22:56:25] <Vexatos> this would get triggered if something asks for a redstone signal too early and then there is no block update until the end of time
L484[22:56:33] <Vexatos> because redstone only updates on block updates
L485[22:56:57] <Ne​uro> I had a look as well. Couldn't think of anything obvious. Seems to be the rough equivalent of try: catching the original statement, and returning 0 if it fails
L486[22:57:17] <Ne​uro> you said it returned 0 which implies it always fails? but I don't understand why that would be
L487[22:57:31] <Vexatos> 0 means if it isn't initialized yes, produce no redstone output
L488[22:57:35] <Vexatos> yet*
L489[22:59:40] <Ne​uro> well I suppose it could always be reverted if nothing else. Still, it should work. I know some people who have done minecraft scala work. I will see if any of them spot anything obvious.
L490[23:17:49] <Brisingr​Aerowing> There's an active PR to fix that.
L491[23:19:12] <Brisingr​Aerowing> https://github.com/MightyPirates/OpenComputers/pull/3449
L492[23:20:34] <Brisingr​Aerowing> I have that (and a few other things) in my personal build.
L493[23:20:45] <Brisingr​Aerowing> I can upload it if you guys want.
L494[23:20:47] <Mimiru> Does Vex have PR approval perms?
L495[23:21:00] <Mimiru> Since Payo is MIA? If not we could poke @Sangar
L496[23:21:02] <Ne​uro> if you say it fixes it I believe you
L497[23:21:16] <Brisingr​Aerowing> My testing confirmed the fix.
L498[23:32:42] <Amanda> %choose halucinate or irradiate and code
L499[23:32:48] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Some "halucinate" sounds nice
L500[23:33:23] <Mimiru> getting slow again...
L501[23:33:25] <Mimiru> %test
L502[23:33:26] <MichiBot> Mim​iru: Success
L503[23:33:30] <Mimiru> oh.. or not
L504[23:33:34] <Mimiru> :/
L505[23:33:59] <Ne​uro> did you figure out why it was slow before?
L506[23:34:35] <Mimiru> Nope, load on the machine was a TOUCH high, but not 7 minutes waiting on a simple command high
L507[23:35:20] <Ne​uro> hm. who knows.
L508[23:35:31] <Forec​aster> it was obviously because the hamsters powering it were slacking
L509[23:36:32] <Ne​uro> tryna fix some stupid nonsense in projectred
L510[23:37:27] <Ne​uro> it seems that if a chip has a redstone output connected to a wire that connects to one of its inputs, the output somehow instantly translates to the input even mid-tick?
L511[23:37:44] <Ne​uro> it makes no sense but is also the only explanation for whats happening
L512[23:38:45] <Ne​uro> its weird and certainly not behavior id expect. but hey
L513[23:40:38] <Ne​uro> I can still work around it by doing weird internal timing things but I don't really wanna have to do that
L514[23:41:35] <Hawk777> Are you talking about inside an IC?
L515[23:42:05] <Ne​uro> Yes, Chip = IC
L516[23:44:58] <Ne​uro> Message contained 4 or more newlines and was pastebined https://paste.pc-logix.com/pamivamuku
L517[23:45:40] <Ne​uro> Why it would do this I do not fully understand, but there is no other explanation I can see for what's going on
L518[23:45:44] <Hawk777> Well, it doesn’t seem to be documented AFAICT, but I discovered a while ago that the individual gates and such inside an IC don’t seem to all have their own propagation delay, instead the IC as a whole has a single unit (not sure whether it’s a 20th or a 10th of a second) of propagation delay. That was really useful for me, as it meant I didn’t have to retime all my signals in a complex calculation.
L519[23:45:56] <Ne​uro> Yes I know that, have known that for a while
L520[23:46:23] <Ne​uro> The IC doesnt even remember which gates are inside it, it creates a sort of compressed engine bitmap
L521[23:46:32] <Hawk777> OK.
L522[23:46:36] <Hawk777> Well then I have no idea.
L523[23:46:42] <Ne​uro> so it doesn't even know whether, say, 100 gates or 2 gates are making the same output
L524[23:47:32] <Ne​uro> https://tinyurl.com/yfx7v5oo
L525[23:48:08] <Hawk777> Well, I know it converts them into a more efficient encoding, but it could theoretically have chosen to do that while still maintaining one-tick delays where the gates used to be.
L526[23:48:19] <Hawk777> But it doesn’t.
L527[23:48:44] <Ne​uro> If you look at the cyan line middle right, ignoring the repeaters, you will see it does two things: It acts as the write line for the array of latches up top, and it also shuts off the white line (bottom left) which in turn shuts off black (bottom right) which is outputting to the outputs
L528[23:51:43] <Ne​uro> its just super odd that it would even choose to process things in that manner
L529[23:52:05] <Ne​uro> I can only assume I have stumbled across some weird exception or safeguard that is maybe meant to resolve loops and/or cover niche situations
L530[23:53:52] <Hawk777> It’s not just that the latches are level-sensitive (since they’re latches, not flip-flops) and they’re continuing to be transparent a moment later, when the new data arrives, is it?
L531[23:54:18] <Hawk777> I haven’t decoded your design in detail; TBH I find PR IC blueprints incredibly hard to read.
L532[23:54:23] <Ne​uro> they shouldn't be
L533[23:54:32] <Ne​uro> you can see the lines that generate cyan are all pulse generators
L534[23:54:38] <Ne​uro> so they should only be sensitive for a moment
L535[23:55:04] <Ne​uro> >Hawk777: I haven’t decoded your design in deta…
L536[23:55:04] <Ne​uro> don't blame yourself, it's the sort of nonsense only I could create
L537[23:56:00] <Hawk777> Nah, it’s not about your design, it’s just that the PR gates are practically illegible to me. I wish they used proper schematic symbols.
L538[23:56:41] <Ne​uro> ah well, all the 3 light gates are and gates, everything else is either NOT, a latch, or a repeater
L539[23:56:45] <Ne​uro> which should be clear enough
L540[23:56:52] <Ne​uro> ah well, all the 3 light gates are AND gates, everything else is either NOT, a latch, or a repeater [Edited]
L541[23:57:06] <Hawk777> Anyway, a pulse generator generates a one-tick-wide high time. So doesn’t that mean that at, say, the second tick instant, the pulse generator outputs a falling edge, and whether the latch is transparent or opaque at that moment depends on whether the new data signal for that tick or the new control signal (from the pulse generator) happens to arrive first?
L542[23:57:27] <Hawk777> So if the latch sees the data signal drop, *then* the control signal drop from the pulse generator, it would still be transparent?
L543[23:58:01] <Hawk777> “then” being in terms of ordering within a single tick.
L544[23:58:16] <Ne​uro> perhaps yeah, I mean, I have 0 clue about in-tick ordering of these things
L545[23:58:26] <Ne​uro> I have yet to come across a situation that required caring about it, until now
L546[23:58:40] <Hawk777> Me neither. It’s open source but I haven’t looked into it. I personally would assume it’s arbitrary.
L547[23:58:46] <Ne​uro> just keep in mind that, as said, the right side is connected to the left side
L548[23:59:12] <Ne​uro> you can see the same cyan pulse does two things, makes the latches transparent for a moment, and turns off the bottom left outputs
L549[23:59:32] <Ne​uro> ignoring the repeaters it should do them both at the same time, but obviously the engine does not process things that way
L550[23:59:54] <Ne​uro> still, I expected that turning the outputs off and that propagating, through the placed cable to the input side and registering would take a further redstone tick
L551[23:59:57] <Hawk777> Exactly. So if at t=0 the outputs turn off and the latches become transparent, and then at t=1 the inputs turn off (one tick delay from the outputs turning off) and the latches become opaque, *in the order I wrote in the sentence*, then the latches would see the new values.
L552[23:59:57] <Ne​uro> not somehow happen instantly
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