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L1[00:00:58] <coolboy> PRIVMSG
L2[00:01:07] <B​ob> wa
L3[00:01:12] <zOmegaS​killer_> WHAT
L4[00:02:17] ⇦ Quits: zOmegaSkiller_ (~zomegaski@p5DFD3025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Proudly using WocChat!)
L5[00:02:43] <B​ob> you should be banned for saying the CC mod
L6[00:03:01] <Amanda> don't be a child, @Bob
L7[00:03:15] <Amanda> You know that the dev behind a CC fork idles aroudn in here, right?
L8[00:04:05] ⇦ Quits: coolboy (~coolboy@p5DFD3025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
L9[00:04:05] <B​ob> yeah squiddefv
L10[00:05:58] ⇨ Joins: Monstrum (~monstrum@p5DFD3025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L11[00:06:07] ⇦ Quits: Monstrum (~monstrum@p5DFD3025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Client Quit)
L12[00:06:55] ⇦ Quits: Inari (~Pinkishu@pD9E380CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
L13[00:06:55] <Sagh​etti> @zOmegaSkiller_ you confuse me a lot ngl
L14[00:08:36] <CompanionCube> i wonder if coolboy's client was buggy lol
L15[00:09:15] ⇨ Joins: Saghetti (webchat@c-67-164-116-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
L16[00:10:29] ⇦ Quits: t20kdc (~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
L17[00:11:03] <Sagh​etti> something tells me that zOmegaSkiller_, coolboy, and dddddddddddddddddddddddd are the same person
L18[00:12:12] <zOmegaS​killer_> no i am zOmegaSkiller and coolboy
L19[00:13:44] <Sagh​etti> also corded is the most active "person" here
L20[00:13:51] <Sagh​etti> over 482k messages
L21[00:14:18] <Sagh​etti> woah
L22[00:14:23] <Sagh​etti> #welcome used to be general lol
L23[00:25:12] <Ocawes​ome101> owo nice
L24[00:26:39] <Sagh​etti> ohno
L25[00:26:41] <Sagh​etti> did you just owo
L26[00:27:09] <Ar​iri> Frame Shift Drive Charging => 3..2..1.. engage. http://tinyurl.com/yc7ayzyf
L27[00:27:38] <Sagh​etti> frog do be kinda stretched tho :flooshed:
L28[01:01:41] <Ocawes​ome101> I don't think I owo'd intentionally
L29[01:06:14] <murlocking3> Where can I make suggestions ?
L30[01:08:11] <murlocking3> The generator upgrade doesn't tell you what you have currently queued into it and it would be so much easier if it returned that value with a function.
L31[01:08:11] <murlocking3> I can't figure out a way to include both coal and lava buckets has a resource because I need to retrieve the empty bucket before inserting coal. It only return the item count, which is not useful right now.
L32[01:08:44] <pay​onel> interesting point
L33[01:08:57] <pay​onel> people generally have focused on one source of power or the other. i've not had this come up before
L34[01:10:03] <Vexatos> I guess one option would be extracting the fuel, checking it, and re-inserting it
L35[01:10:27] <pay​onel> murlocking3: are you playing with dev builds already?
L36[01:11:51] <murlocking3> Vexatos hmm, interesting...
L37[01:12:14] <murlocking3> payonel Nope, should I update ?
L38[01:12:53] <Vexatos> that's how I would do it, anyway
L39[01:13:22] <murlocking3> Yeah, that's a pretty good idea :)
L40[01:13:30] <Kristo​pher38> I found it funny when I switched my COVAS in ED to a different language
L41[01:14:03] <Kristo​pher38> Drei... Zwei... Eins... SPRUNG
L42[01:14:20] <Vexatos> SPRING NICHT
L43[01:24:16] <Ocawes​ome101> well. shoot
L44[01:24:28] <Ocawes​ome101> Monolith is ridiculously slow in-game but works fine in OCVM
L45[01:25:36] <Sagh​etti> imagine not testing your programs in gamr
L46[01:25:42] <Sagh​etti> imagine not developing your programs in game [Edited]
L47[01:26:03] <Ocawes​ome101> my guess is I'm making some ridiculous amount of calls to some component
L48[01:26:22] <B​ob> This post was made by waiting 1 hour till MC boots gang
L49[01:26:32] <Sagh​etti> ayy
L50[01:26:33] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-24-10.dynamic.as20676.net) (Quit: Insert quantum chemistry joke here)
L51[01:27:01] <Ocawes​ome101> slow enough that it takes a solid 30 seconds to input username/password :/
L52[01:27:44] <Sagh​etti> make a debug component library
L53[01:27:50] <Sagh​etti> trace component calls :bigbrain:
L54[01:28:07] <Ocawes​ome101> or hmm
L55[01:28:20] <Ocawes​ome101> would calling `computer.getDeviceInfo` every cycle do that?
L56[01:28:28] <Sagh​etti> not sure
L57[01:28:32] <Sagh​etti> havent used that call tbh
L58[01:30:10] <Ocawes​ome101> well, changing getty to not do that makes the shell usable...?!
L59[01:30:23] <Sagh​etti> what does getDeviceInfo do?
L60[01:30:23] <Ocawes​ome101> logging in is still slow asf but the shell is usable now
L61[01:30:44] <Ocawes​ome101> returns a table of info about devices in the computer, just like it says on the tin
L62[01:31:01] <Sagh​etti> why every cycle...
L63[01:31:03] <Sagh​etti> why every cycle...? [Edited]
L64[01:31:09] <Sagh​etti> and not just use events
L65[01:32:13] <Ocawes​ome101> that's what I'm doing now
L66[01:32:16] <Ocawes​ome101> but I wasn't
L67[01:32:37] <Ocawes​ome101> what I really want to know is why the hell the shell works fine but login is slow
L68[01:33:26] <Ocawes​ome101> WAIT
L69[01:33:30] <Ocawes​ome101> it gets weirder
L70[01:33:41] <Ocawes​ome101> after ten seconds or so login is perfectly fine
L71[01:33:49] <Ocawes​ome101> even just a few seconds
L72[01:33:50] <Ocawes​ome101> tf is this
L73[01:34:34] <Ocawes​ome101> oh
L74[01:34:35] <Ocawes​ome101> OH
L75[01:34:37] <Ocawes​ome101> OH OH OH
L76[01:34:40] <Ocawes​ome101> I think I might know
L77[01:34:43] <Ocawes​ome101> one sec
L78[01:35:51] <Ocawes​ome101> that was it!
L79[01:36:29] <Ocawes​ome101> `getty` rescans (calling getDeviceInfo, which is pretty slow) every time it gets a `component_{add,remov}ed` event, and I was queueing a bunch of thise
L80[01:36:30] <B​ob> I blame Mojang
L81[01:36:33] <Ocawes​ome101> `getty` rescans (calling getDeviceInfo, which is pretty slow) every time it gets a `component_{add,remov}ed` event, and I was queueing a bunch of those [Edited]
L82[01:36:46] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> i hate the windows registry
L83[01:36:49] <Ocawes​ome101> Bob: I can start Minecraft in like <30s
L84[01:36:57] <Ocawes​ome101> AdorableCatgirl: tell me about it
L85[01:37:09] <B​ob> How many mods ?
L86[01:37:14] <B​ob> Wtf is windows
L87[01:37:22] <Ocawes​ome101> just one
L88[01:37:25] <Ocawes​ome101> maybe two
L89[01:37:39] <Ocawes​ome101> 10-15s with no mods B)
L90[01:37:51] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> all i want is my comfy win2k install
L91[01:44:10] <Ocawes​ome101> well, Monolith runs on all-T1
L92[01:44:19] <Ocawes​ome101> but >3.6k free
L93[01:47:32] <Sagh​etti> i want to make an OC RTOS
L94[01:47:59] <Sagh​etti> when AdorableCatgirl finally gets around to making system on cards, i'll make a baseband
L95[01:48:06] <Ocawes​ome101> that'd be interesting
L96[01:48:21] <Sagh​etti> also suggestion: make it so that you can integrate data cards, wireless cards, etc. onto a system on card
L97[01:48:32] <Sagh​etti> and also i just want like 192kb of ram and 512k disk
L98[01:48:54] <Ocawes​ome101> oh also in Monolith I finally have an OS that is heavier and slower to boot than OpenOS :O
L99[01:49:11] <Sagh​etti> ~~very cool~
L100[01:49:13] <Sagh​etti> ~~very cool~~ [Edited]
L101[01:49:22] <ThePi​Guy24> card cards
L102[01:49:26] <Sagh​etti> yes
L103[01:49:34] <Sagh​etti> or maybe make all cards just chips
L104[01:49:48] <Sagh​etti> like a Data Chip, Internet Chip, Graphics Chip, etc
L105[01:50:04] <Sagh​etti> and then either craft it onto a card or onto a computer card
L106[01:50:13] <Sagh​etti> card-ception
L107[01:51:43] <Sagh​etti> payonel: i'm looking at you
L108[01:51:48] <Sagh​etti> jk jk
L109[01:51:51] <Sagh​etti> just an idea
L110[01:54:34] <AshleighTheCutie> multiple cards on one card would be cool
L111[01:55:09] <AshleighTheCutie> are my messages getting through
L112[01:55:14] ⇦ Quits: AshleighThePhone (~Ash@2600:6c58:7f80:f31:a072:3e62:a5d1:a342) (Read error: No route to host)
L113[01:55:25] <Sagh​etti> yep
L114[01:55:27] <AshleighTheCutie> im getting wifi errors in my terminal
L115[01:55:42] <Sagh​etti> AshleighThePhone
L116[01:55:59] <Sagh​etti> still waiting for AshleighTheEReader
L117[01:56:05] <Sagh​etti> or AshleighThePOSTerminal
L118[01:56:13] <AshleighTheCutie> lol
L119[01:56:42] <Sagh​etti> yeah i really want a self-contained computer inside a card
L120[01:56:51] <Sagh​etti> nothing too powerful
L121[01:57:22] <AshleighTheCutie> this tablet is actually an android tablet completly haced to run linux, so errors in the term arent abnormal
L122[01:57:28] <AshleighTheCutie> hacked*
L123[01:57:56] ⇨ Joins: AshleighThePhone (~Ash@2600:6c58:7f80:f31:a072:3e62:a5d1:a342)
L124[01:58:18] <AshleighTheCutie> brb, getting the phone off of here
L125[01:58:51] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@88.130.156.22) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by ben_mkiv|afk!~ben_mkiv@mue-88-130-63-172.dsl.tropolys.de)))
L126[01:58:51] ⇦ Quits: AshleighThePhone (~Ash@2600:6c58:7f80:f31:a072:3e62:a5d1:a342) (Client Quit)
L127[01:58:56] ⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv|afk (~ben_mkiv@mue-88-130-63-172.dsl.tropolys.de)
L128[02:01:04] <AshleighTheCutie> back
L129[02:03:25] <Sagh​etti> i love how everybody is so paranoid about their ip being leaked
L130[02:03:41] <AshleighTheCutie> hm?
L131[02:03:41] <Sagh​etti> but IRC makes it public and literally an integral part of how it works
L132[02:03:53] <AshleighTheCutie> eh
L133[02:04:01] <Sagh​etti> somebody knowing your IP doesn't really matter
L134[02:04:15] <Michiyo> Mimiru@znc.michiyo.me
L135[02:04:16] <Michiyo> eh.. :P
L136[02:04:18] <AshleighTheCutie> im paranoid about it yes, but i know its unreasonable
L137[02:04:55] <AshleighTheCutie> Paranoia can be helpful, but also really damn annoying
L138[02:06:59] <Sagh​etti> my ip is 67.164.116.220
L139[02:07:02] <Sagh​etti> DDoS me :P
L140[02:07:24] <AshleighTheCutie> thats not what im paranoid about
L141[02:07:31] <Sagh​etti> actually tho why the heck are people so scared of being DDoSed?
L142[02:07:43] <Sagh​etti> you can literally turn ICMP responses off on your router
L143[02:08:15] <AshleighTheCutie> most ISPs protect against it, no?
L144[02:10:15] <Sagh​etti> not sure
L145[02:11:53] ⇦ Quits: Saghetti (webchat@c-67-164-116-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: webchat.esper.net)
L146[02:14:30] <CompanionCube> Saghetti: lol turning off ICMP responses won't do crap
L147[02:15:10] <CompanionCube> a) DDoSes don't really work that way b) not all DDoSes involve ICMP. Most probably don't.
L148[02:16:02] <Ocawes​ome101> ahyway imma go for awhile bye
L149[02:17:53] <Amanda> c) even if it did, it'd still waste bandwidth to receive the ICMP
L150[02:17:56] <Sagh​etti> cya
L151[02:18:17] <CompanionCube> Amanda: that is point a)
L152[02:18:36] <AshleighTheCutie> bai
L153[02:18:46] <Sagh​etti> pro gamer strat: change your MAC address (if supported)
L154[02:18:47] <Sagh​etti> :bigbrain:
L155[02:18:54] <B​ob> ISPs provide dynamical IPs normally
L156[02:19:03] <B​ob> and that can help stop DDoSes
L157[02:19:15] <B​ob> and DDoSes can be over any protocol too
L158[02:19:16] <Amanda> not really, more like shifting the target
L159[02:19:23] <Sagh​etti> yeah
L160[02:19:24] <CompanionCube> Saghetti: but what if you own a PC? :thinking:
L161[02:19:25] * Elfi looks at her connect settings explicitly disabling her IP mask
L162[02:19:26] <B​ob> well yeah
L163[02:19:27] * Elfi shruuug
L164[02:19:33] <B​ob> so your ISP is ddosed and not you
L165[02:19:36] <Elfi> Gotta show off that vanity dns somehow, right?
L166[02:19:45] <Amanda> They're till DDoSing whoever the poor sap is who gets assigned that IP next.
L167[02:20:22] <Amanda> You think an ISP is going to leave something as valuable as an ipv4 address unassigned for long?
L168[02:20:31] <CompanionCube> best thing to do is bait them with an IP that resolves to their own network.
L169[02:20:34] <AshleighTheCutie> even so, ISPs blovk DDOS anyway
L170[02:20:46] <AshleighTheCutie> block*
L171[02:20:54] <Sagh​etti> haven't heard of them doing that tbh
L172[02:20:54] <CompanionCube> AshleighTheCutie: one does not block a DDoS in any real sense
L173[02:20:57] <Sagh​etti> comcast said they won't help
L174[02:21:03] <Sagh​etti> come ddos me my ip is 192.168.0.1
L175[02:21:05] <Amanda> They do some DDoS blocking, but if you're constantly targeted you'll probably lose the service
L176[02:21:09] <AshleighTheCutie> Spectrum does
L177[02:21:16] <CompanionCube> at best you can swallow it before it hits the end
L178[02:21:33] <CompanionCube> but you're still getting DDoSes, you're just mitigating it
L179[02:23:39] <Sagh​etti> but seriously how many individuals actually get DDoSed
L180[02:23:57] <B​ob> 127.0.0.1 is the most ddosed peep
L181[02:23:57] <Amanda> I mean. It's not exactly common, but it's not rare either
L182[02:24:04] <Sagh​etti> who really has the time to ddos me
L183[02:24:47] <CompanionCube> well, considering there's a market for renting DDoS bandwidth, can't be *that* uncommon
L184[02:25:02] <Amanda> ^
L185[02:27:00] <CompanionCube> this conversation bought to mind this bad government advert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjYrxzSe3DU
L186[02:27:01] <MichiBot> Teenage cybercrime: Help your child make the right #CyberChoices | length: 1m 28s | Likes: 331 Dislikes: 1,141 Views: 148,531 | by National Crime Agency | Published On 8/12/2015
L187[02:27:15] <Sagh​etti> welL I gUESS I cant uSe IRC AnymoRE beCAUse iM GOIng to geT DdOsED
L188[02:28:26] <CompanionCube> sent from discord :3
L189[02:30:03] <Sagh​etti> also i love how people think they can IP ban people from discord
L190[02:30:19] <Sagh​etti> they tried to do ?ipban
L191[02:30:19] ⇦ Quits: immibis (~immibis@46.114.36.178) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)
L192[02:30:38] <Sagh​etti> but they don't know bans are ip by default
L193[02:41:06] <Klea​dron> lol
L194[02:46:06] ⇨ Joins: Blue_595 (~c8h10n4o2@47.196.68.21)
L195[02:46:37] <Blue_595> how do you use a library thats in the same directory as the script youre running
L196[02:47:04] <Blue_595> or does it need to be installed to a special place
L197[02:48:08] <B​ob> any place that's pointed by package.path
L198[02:48:18] <B​ob> better in /usr/lib
L199[02:48:23] <B​ob> for user custom libs
L200[02:53:05] <Blue_595> oh
L201[02:53:33] <Blue_595> for the sake of the developer, im just gonna add /home/ to package.path
L202[02:55:25] <Blue_595> cant find package.path
L203[03:00:05] <B​ob> There's no way package.path doesnt exist
L204[03:01:58] <Blue_595> uh
L205[03:02:00] <Blue_595> emulator?
L206[03:04:23] <Amanda> package.path is handled by OpenOS
L207[03:07:39] <Blue_595> uh
L208[03:07:41] <Blue_595> where is it
L209[03:07:46] <Skye> Elfi, your domain name is basically "monster girl" right? :P
L210[03:09:00] <Blue_595> iirc /home/lib/ or /home/bin/ was a thing
L211[03:10:56] ⇦ Quits: Blue_595 (~c8h10n4o2@47.196.68.21) (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
L212[03:19:28] <B​ob> Nope its defenitely user and not home, anyways Blue is gone 🦀
L213[03:29:20] <Sagh​etti> we did it bois
L214[03:29:23] <Sagh​etti> blue is no more
L215[03:43:13] <Sagh​etti> is it normal that i'm making git commits every 2 minutes
L216[03:44:07] <Ocawes​ome101> idk
L217[03:44:09] <Ocawes​ome101> back
L218[03:44:59] <Sagh​etti> wb
L219[03:46:58] <Ocawes​ome101> what are you writing bytes to? :D
L220[03:47:15] <Sagh​etti> working on terrabungee
L221[03:47:18] * Amanda snugsafairy, zzzmews
L222[03:47:45] <Sagh​etti> tl;dr: bungeecord backend server management suite for large multi-bungeecord networks
L223[03:47:59] <Ocawes​ome101> I think I remember you talking about that
L224[03:47:59] <Sagh​etti> also does load balancing and some other neat things
L225[03:48:01] <Sagh​etti> yeah
L226[03:48:13] <Sagh​etti> i spend like 10 hours a day working on it
L227[03:48:15] <Sagh​etti> please help
L228[03:48:52] <Ocawes​ome101> b r u h
L229[03:48:58] <Ocawes​ome101> work on Quark or something
L230[03:49:01] <Sagh​etti> n o
L231[03:49:05] <Sagh​etti> this actually has a purpose
L232[03:49:07] <Sagh​etti> and a deadline
L233[03:49:10] <Sagh​etti> of monday
L234[03:49:11] <Ocawes​ome101> fair
L235[03:49:14] <Ocawes​ome101> oh
L236[03:49:15] <Ocawes​ome101> oh
L237[03:49:16] <Sagh​etti> i freaked out when i heard that
L238[03:49:21] <Sagh​etti> so now it's mega crunch time
L239[03:49:26] <Sagh​etti> schoolwork can heck off
L240[03:49:29] <Ocawes​ome101> well how close are you?
L241[03:49:32] <Sagh​etti> no
L242[03:49:48] <Sagh​etti> scrambling to put together my instance management system
L243[03:50:01] <Sagh​etti> also here's some nice docs if you want to ~~steal my implementation details~~
L244[03:50:04] <Sagh​etti> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TBERu7Z3uwStIeewy7hEU4VYyrrMHe-riC0Cd41x_rw/edit
L245[03:50:23] <Sagh​etti> caution: very WIP
L246[03:56:45] <Amanda> Do your homework, saghetti
L247[03:57:12] <Amanda> Or no dessert for you
L248[03:57:27] * Amanda tucks in, sleeps
L249[03:59:02] <murlocking3> https://pastebin.com/gqQ2aCeE : I don't get this, if I call the function isFuelRemaining(stack_info) alone, it insert the fuel in selected slot but if I call my isBucket(stack_info) function that finish with isFuelRemaining(stack_info) function it doesn't insert the fuel at the end. Does anyone understand what is happening? I know this is a tricky
L250[03:59:02] <murlocking3> question and my code is probably ass.
L251[04:01:19] <murlocking3> Ignore line 104.. I'm calling 'isBucket(stack_info)' on my robot with fuel inserted. If it's a bucket that get removed, it store it into a chest but it doesn't reinsert the other fuel.
L252[04:04:28] <murlocking3> oh, found a spelling error... one sec !
L253[04:11:22] <murlocking3> fixed the spelling error on line 68 , still won't reinsert coal
L254[04:11:48] <B​ob> weird lua practices
L255[04:12:34] <Sagh​etti> yeah
L256[04:12:47] <murlocking3> What do you mean?
L257[04:13:02] <Sagh​etti> many reasons
L258[04:13:05] <Sagh​etti> robot.select(5) ; robot.drop() ; robot.select(16) ; robot.drop()
L259[04:13:10] <Sagh​etti> using semicolons on one line
L260[04:13:14] <Sagh​etti> weird indentation
L261[04:13:30] <Sagh​etti> using tables to store constants for some reason
L262[04:13:41] <Sagh​etti> reassigning robot functions to variables
L263[04:13:53] <Sagh​etti> weird use of capitalization (TURN)
L264[04:13:57] <B​ob> checking args inside every function
L265[04:14:00] <B​ob> when it can be done outsiede
L266[04:14:05] <B​ob> and should be tbh
L267[04:14:12] <B​ob> why would intentionally pass nill
L268[04:14:19] <Sagh​etti> this is some weird code ngl
L269[04:14:42] <B​ob> i guess it works
L270[04:14:45] <B​ob> but worht a refractor
L271[04:14:46] <Sagh​etti> ¯\(ツ)/¯
L272[04:16:59] <murlocking3> @Saghetti what do you mean by 'using tables to store constants' ? how else would you do it ?
L273[04:17:23] <Sagh​etti> i mean it's reasonable and not
L274[04:17:56] <B​ob> iterating is dumb
L275[04:17:59] <Sagh​etti> Coal_names, first of all, could be named better
L276[04:18:06] <Sagh​etti> maybe fuel_names
L277[04:18:12] <Sagh​etti> and also weird use of capitalization
L278[04:18:21] <B​ob> it needs to be a hashmap
L279[04:18:24] <B​ob> in no case an array
L280[04:18:31] <Sagh​etti> hashmap?>
L281[04:18:33] <Sagh​etti> that aint lua
L282[04:18:39] <B​ob> well table with string keys
L283[04:18:42] <Sagh​etti> yeah
L284[04:18:53] <Sagh​etti> so make the key the fuel name, and the value true
L285[04:18:54] <murlocking3> @Bob Example ?
L286[04:19:00] <B​ob> also weird array initializzation
L287[04:19:09] <B​ob> `local t = {a = true} t["a"]`
L288[04:19:22] <Sagh​etti> and then you could do if validfuel[stackinfo.name]
L289[04:19:44] <B​ob> yeah
L290[04:19:44] <Sagh​etti> it would return true if yes, nil if no
L291[04:19:50] <Sagh​etti> little optimization tip
L292[04:20:14] <Sagh​etti> also you should do table initialization in-line
L293[04:20:22] <Sagh​etti> yeah like bob said
L294[04:21:17] <B​ob> all tha fiascio useless
L295[04:23:53] <murlocking3> I appreciate the pointers but I'm so lost lol...
L296[04:24:32] <pay​onel> the rule i think matters most is to be consistent
L297[04:24:44] <pay​onel> with a new language, you're finding your comfort and pattern
L298[04:24:47] <pay​onel> i wouldn't stress it
L299[04:25:54] <murlocking3> table initialization in-line? like this? local Fuel_names = {"minecraft:coal" = true} ?
L300[04:26:44] <pay​onel> yes, but. you need to [] string literals
L301[04:27:02] <pay​onel> `local fuel_names = { ["minecraft:coal"] = true }`
L302[04:27:26] <pay​onel> you have to [] any value
L303[04:27:37] <pay​onel> else the parser tries to read it as a field name
L304[04:28:09] <B​ob> there is table syntax sugar
L305[04:28:29] <B​ob> but it only works if your keys respect lua variable names
L306[04:28:32] <B​ob> else you'd need []
L307[04:28:56] <murlocking3> so if I have more than one it would look like this? local Fuel_names = {["minecraft:coal"], [minecraft:planks]} = true} ?
L308[04:29:15] <pay​onel> each would need a value assigned
L309[04:29:49] <pay​onel> `local fuel_names = { ["minecraft:coal"] = true, ["minecraft:planks"] = true}`
L310[04:30:49] <murlocking3> Guess I'm not going to bed yet...
L311[04:32:25] <B​ob> 5:30 lol
L312[04:33:00] <B​ob> too late for bed
L313[04:33:02] <B​ob> or too earlt ?
L314[04:33:04] <B​ob> early*
L315[04:59:12] <murlocking3> Ignore line 18, https://pastebin.com/5v1tN5RZ Why am I getting a 'attempting to index nil value (local 'stack_info') ?
L316[05:01:34] <murlocking3> I'm probably doing this completely wrong, again..
L317[05:01:47] <B​ob> `'attempting to index nil value (local 'stackinfo')` index = acces like a table, nil value self explanatory, local stackinfo =scope and variable name
L318[05:03:27] <murlocking3> If you're talking about the variable on line 18, I removed that
L319[05:03:43] <B​ob> line 18 is blank lke
L320[05:03:46] <B​ob> what it has to do
L321[05:03:58] <murlocking3> 10*
L322[05:06:52] <B​ob> what does it have to do
L323[05:06:59] <B​ob> you have a local in the function with the same name
L324[05:07:05] <B​ob> thats Lua
L325[05:07:16] <B​ob> https://pastebin.com/VXQT1Vhy
L326[05:07:22] <Elfi> Late but yes, Skye
L327[05:07:33] <B​ob> aw poop
L328[05:07:34] <B​ob> its wrong
L329[05:07:55] <B​ob> https://pastebin.com/YW1diW2Q
L330[05:07:57] <B​ob> here
L331[05:08:03] ⇨ Joins: Ernos (~freacknat@097-092-106-022.biz.spectrum.com)
L332[05:08:10] <B​ob> still wrong
L333[05:08:12] <B​ob> damn it
L334[05:08:42] <Ernos> man, I love nondescript error messages. I'm working on my own OS, following a guide, and somewhere I am giving a null instead of a string. Now I gotta find which file has that error, and how to fix it
L335[05:08:46] <B​ob> https://pastebin.com/a7zxQSQk
L336[05:08:55] ⇦ Quits: Thutmose1 (~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
L337[05:10:44] <Ernos> is Ocawesome101 here?
L338[05:10:52] <Ernos> his guide is the one I'm following
L339[05:10:52] <Ocawes​ome101> Ernos: yes I am
L340[05:10:57] <Ernos> cool, ok
L341[05:11:07] <Ernos> I'm gonna DM you on discord, if you don't mind
L342[05:11:14] <Ocawes​ome101> that's fine
L343[05:15:44] <Sagh​etti> @Ocawesome101 you have youtube guides?
L344[05:16:31] <Ocawes​ome101> no
L345[05:16:36] <Ocawes​ome101> I posted one on the forums
L346[05:16:46] <Sagh​etti> oh ok
L347[05:18:32] <murlocking3> that code didn't work @Bob even after fixing an error or two
L348[05:18:45] <B​ob> whats the ultimate goal
L349[05:18:56] <B​ob> ive just removed a maximum or redundant stuff
L350[05:25:08] <murlocking3> Suck items in 'fuel_names' from chest placed from slot 14, then after sucking the fuel, insert it into generator. Also need another function to check if an empty bucket is stuck in the robot generator so I need to use component.generator.remove() , inspect the stack and if it's a bucket (lava or empty) I want to transfer it to chest on slot 8, if i
L351[05:25:08] <murlocking3> t's another fuel item (coal, log, planks, rods) I want to reinsert it into the robot. @Bob
L352[05:28:25] <murlocking3> First function: Suck items in 'fuel_names' from chest placed from slot 14. Second function : Check if an empty bucket is stuck in the robot generator with component.generator.remove() , inspect the stack and if it's a bucket (lava or empty) I want to transfer it to chest on slot 8, if it's another fuel item (coal, log, planks, rods) I want to rein
L353[05:28:25] <murlocking3> sert it into the robot. @Bob *Edited*
L354[05:31:32] <murlocking3> Also, I only want to do the first function if the robot energy is <=200
L355[05:35:57] <murlocking3> In the first function, I only want to suck one stack of item, that's why I have the 'break' in there. One stack of any items in 'fuel_names'.
L356[05:48:04] ⇦ Quits: Backslash (~Backslash@d137-186-220-152.abhsia.telus.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L357[06:12:52] <SquidDev> %tonkout
L358[06:12:52] <MichiBot> Fopdoodle! Squi​dDev! You beat your own previous record of 1 hour, 29 minutes and 20 seconds (By 6 hours, 25 minutes and 43 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L359[06:12:53] <MichiBot> Squi​dDev has tonked out! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.007 tonk points! plus 0.012 bonus points for consecutive hours! Current score: 0.35875, Position #5 Need 0.08842 more points to pass simo​n816!
L360[06:17:27] <Ernos> hey, can I get some help real quick? I'm following a tutorial ocawesome101 made. I am getting the error "bad argument #1 (string expected, got nil)" when I go to boot the OS. Me and him have looked at it for like 45 minutes and can't figure out any errors. He made it using OCVM and hasn't tried it in game. Here's the link to his github repo of the project, which is giving that same error when I boot it. https://github.com/ocawesome101/basic
L361[06:17:27] <Ernos> -oc-os
L362[06:18:19] <Ocawes​ome101> feel free to criticize my code very harshly, to anyone who does look at it
L363[06:30:37] <Sagh​etti> ocawesome101/basic? more like
L364[06:30:40] <Sagh​etti> 404 not found
L365[06:31:01] <Ocawes​ome101> basic-oc-os is the repo name
L366[06:31:14] <Sagh​etti> ah
L367[06:31:28] <Ocawes​ome101> we are getting close tho
L368[06:31:50] <Sagh​etti> ?
L369[06:32:45] <Ocawes​ome101> Ernos and I
L370[06:32:51] <Sagh​etti> ebic
L371[06:35:26] ⇨ Joins: Blue_595 (~c8h10n4o2@47.196.68.21)
L372[06:36:00] <Blue_595> <Routing information: partition #random>
L373[06:36:05] <Blue_595> <Start of transmission>
L374[06:36:10] <Sagh​etti> k
L375[06:37:43] <Blue_595> so just as verification, flu shots are supposed to occur every year?
L376[06:38:01] <Blue_595> there was one year where i have no memory of receiving one
L377[06:38:11] <Blue_595> and guess what? my entire family got the flu
L378[06:38:16] <Blue_595> thanks mom
L379[06:38:21] <Blue_595> <End of transmission>
L380[06:38:23] ⇦ Quits: Blue_595 (~c8h10n4o2@47.196.68.21) (Client Quit)
L381[06:42:19] <Ernos> Who is Blue_595
L382[06:42:35] <Sagh​etti> some1
L383[06:42:42] <Sagh​etti> they join and leave IRC a lot
L384[06:42:47] <Sagh​etti> haven't really seen them talk a lot
L385[06:43:18] <Ernos> ahh
L386[06:43:31] <Ernos> that <start of transmission> and <end of transmission> make me wonder if they're a bot
L387[06:43:42] <Sagh​etti> nah it's just the
L388[06:43:43] <Sagh​etti> them*
L389[06:43:50] <Ernos> ahh
L390[06:48:29] <The_St​argazer> \o/ finally
L391[06:48:34] <The_St​argazer> i have a working keyboard
L392[06:48:45] <Sagh​etti> it's been a while since you talked
L393[06:48:48] <Sagh​etti> is that why?
L394[06:48:52] <The_St​argazer> yea
L395[06:49:00] <The_St​argazer> i only had an onscreen keyboard
L396[06:49:13] <Sagh​etti> oof
L397[06:49:25] <The_St​argazer> idk why my laptop keyboard is broken
L398[06:49:31] <The_St​argazer> it thinks im always holding fn
L399[06:49:47] <The_St​argazer> so (for example) pressing the 'a' key acts as Fn+A
L400[06:50:02] <The_St​argazer> and i couldn't rebind it because its hardware-level im p. sure
L401[06:50:10] <Ernos> interesting, glad you fixed it
L402[06:50:17] <The_St​argazer> well
L403[06:50:20] <The_St​argazer> i didn't
L404[06:50:22] <Ernos> For some reason, this OS is crashing constantly
L405[06:50:23] <Ernos> oh
L406[06:50:25] <The_St​argazer> i just have a proper keyboard
L407[06:50:31] <The_St​argazer> (non-laptop)
L408[06:50:36] <Ernos> ahh
L409[06:50:57] <The_St​argazer> im using a laptop like a desktop
L410[06:51:06] <Ernos> heh, I did that for a few years
L411[06:51:09] <The_St​argazer> its actually pretty good
L412[06:51:13] <Ernos> nice
L413[06:51:20] <The_St​argazer> my laptop isn't bad either
L414[06:51:40] <The_St​argazer> the only major issue is integrated graphics, but tbf it is a laptop
L415[06:51:45] <Ernos> yeah
L416[06:52:10] <The_St​argazer> not many (if any) non-gaming laptops have dGPUs
L417[06:52:15] <Ernos> yeah
L418[06:52:35] <The_St​argazer> but it's not a massive issue since i don't play graphics-intensive games
L419[06:56:17] <Ernos> This is driving me nuts lol, this keeps crashing
L420[06:56:29] <The_St​argazer> what does?
L421[06:57:39] <Ernos> An OS. Ocawesome101 wrote a tutorial on making an OS. Mine wasn't working, so me and him were debugging. I tried his master copy of what it is supposed to be off his repo, and that is crashing too. We fixed a few errors to get more debugging info, now we just have a bad argument crash we suspect is coming from the shell when it tries to load
L422[06:58:11] <The_St​argazer> oh
L423[06:59:20] ⇦ Quits: murlocking3 (webchat@199.84.43.121) (Quit: webchat.esper.net)
L424[07:12:45] <Ernos> I can't seem to figure out where this error is coming from
L425[07:15:32] <Ernos> I'm at a loss. Somewhere, something is getting nil when it expects string, but I can't find any such place
L426[07:16:09] <Ernos> and it is just not being more verbose about the error, which is annoying
L427[07:18:10] <The_St​argazer> ime, error verbosity is not a thing in Lua
L428[07:18:20] <The_St​argazer> aside from stacktrace
L429[07:18:27] <Ernos> This OS has a custom error message
L430[07:18:33] <The_St​argazer> oh
L431[07:19:43] <Ernos> The top-most part of the stacktrace is a function labeled ok. I can't find that function
L432[07:20:03] <The_St​argazer> name your functions properly :P
L433[07:20:07] <The_St​argazer> is it a pcall?
L434[07:20:12] <Ernos> I didn't write this lol
L435[07:20:17] <The_St​argazer> oh
L436[07:20:17] <Ernos> and ok isn't a pcall
L437[07:20:25] <The_St​argazer> well
L438[07:20:32] <Ernos> Ocawesome101 wrote this, and I'm trying to help him debug it
L439[07:20:34] <The_St​argazer> ok is usually used as a pcall result
L440[07:20:49] <The_St​argazer> e.g. `ok, error = pcall(someFunction, someArg)`
L441[07:20:53] <Ernos> ok's purpose is to be the code being ran
L442[07:21:07] <Ernos> I'm not sure how exactly to explain what ok does
L443[07:21:08] <The_St​argazer> yeah then it's probably the success result of a pcall
L444[07:21:30] <The_St​argazer> if `someFunction` returns another function, then `ok` will be a function
L445[07:21:42] <The_St​argazer> do a check for pcall statements
L446[07:21:54] <Ernos> I've looked, don't see any pcalls
L447[07:22:06] <The_St​argazer> in the whole file?
L448[07:22:28] <Ernos> actually
L449[07:22:30] <Ernos> I am blind
L450[07:22:47] <The_St​argazer> we all are sometimes :P
L451[07:22:54] <Ernos> So the error appears in the dofile function of this OS
L452[07:23:10] <The_St​argazer> any pcalls there?
L453[07:23:26] <Ernos> yeah. When it runs, it's loading shell.lua. That points to the error being in shell.lua
L454[07:23:45] <The_St​argazer> check the function that's being pcall'd
L455[07:23:47] <Ernos> and I've been spending most of my time in shell.lua, but I can't find any errors in shell.lua
L456[07:23:54] <Ernos> the function that is being pcall'd is shell.lua
L457[07:24:00] <Ernos> It's executing that file
L458[07:24:12] <The_St​argazer> does `shell.lua` return a function?
L459[07:24:20] <The_St​argazer> im assuming so
L460[07:24:27] <Ernos> no, it just sits there in an infinite loop. shell.lua is a lua interpreter
L461[07:24:35] <The_St​argazer> ...
L462[07:24:40] <The_St​argazer> why is it called shell.lua then
L463[07:24:50] <Ernos> it's this OS's shell
L464[07:24:55] <The_St​argazer> oh
L465[07:25:11] <The_St​argazer> i mean technically an interpreter isn't a shell but ok
L466[07:25:21] <Ernos> This is meant to be a super minimalistic OS
L467[07:25:25] <Ernos> It's part of a tutorial
L468[07:25:38] <Ernos> This is the tutorial it's made in : https://oc.cil.li/topic/2259-how-to-write-an-opencomputers-operating-system-for-beginners/
L469[07:26:03] <The_St​argazer> ah
L470[07:26:30] * Izaya yawns
L471[07:26:33] <Izaya> social stuff is tiring
L472[07:26:35] <Izaya> how goes friendos
L473[07:26:42] <Ernos> It goes, but is hard
L474[07:26:43] <The_St​argazer> im happy
L475[07:26:48] <The_St​argazer> finally have working keyboard
L476[07:26:49] <Ernos> I'm debugging an OS
L477[07:26:56] <Izaya> The_Stargazer: did you check for a numlock
L478[07:27:09] <The_St​argazer> laptop keyboard previously
L479[07:27:12] <The_St​argazer> so no numlock
L480[07:27:12] <Izaya> yeah
L481[07:27:17] <Izaya> my old laptop had a fn layer numlock
L482[07:27:23] <Izaya> and when it was activated, it was fn by default
L483[07:27:28] <The_St​argazer> oh god, fn
L484[07:27:31] <The_St​argazer> that's the issue lol
L485[07:27:35] <Izaya> yeah
L486[07:27:37] <The_St​argazer> it thinks im always holding fn
L487[07:27:37] <Izaya> hence the guess
L488[07:27:48] <The_St​argazer> so e.g. A becomes Fn+A
L489[07:28:04] <The_St​argazer> but
L490[07:28:08] <The_St​argazer> it worked fine a while ago
L491[07:28:09] <Ernos> Izaya: do you think you could help me with this OS? It's giving me a crash I can't figure out, and have been at it for a good bit
L492[07:28:18] <Izaya> post sauce and error
L493[07:28:18] <The_St​argazer> i think some water got into it
L494[07:28:21] <Izaya> I can take a quick look
L495[07:28:24] <Izaya> did you see the neat thing I did yesterday
L496[07:28:26] <The_St​argazer> short-circuit maybe, idk
L497[07:28:32] <Ernos> ok, are you good with .rar files?
L498[07:28:34] <Izaya> https://social.shadowkat.net/media/74799ba5aec794d10f68d56427a1aa8664d79ad32ba5479b1fd56d44b06f3fdf.png
L499[07:28:39] <Izaya> would prefer .tar but I can open them
L500[07:28:43] <The_St​argazer> how does one be good at rar files
L501[07:28:57] <Izaya> good is okay, in this context :p
L502[07:29:23] <The_St​argazer> what archive software can't these days?
L503[07:29:56] <The_St​argazer> open them, that is
L504[07:30:00] * Izaya nods
L505[07:30:09] <Izaya> it's still a nonfree format but at least it's widely supported ig
L506[07:30:13] <Ernos> where is a decent place I can drop this rar? It's 6kb
L507[07:30:15] <The_St​argazer> yeah
L508[07:30:20] <Izaya> https://catbox.moe
L509[07:30:23] <pay​onel> why rar...
L510[07:30:28] <The_St​argazer> why do you need to compress something if the compressed file is so small
L511[07:30:38] <pay​onel> @Ernos what's wrong?
L512[07:30:40] <Izaya> payonel did you see the neat thingo
L513[07:30:53] <Ernos> ok, and rar is because I use winrar. I'm not making it a rar because of size, I'm turning a directory structure into a single file
L514[07:31:01] <The_St​argazer> >winrar
L515[07:31:02] <The_St​argazer> >windows
L516[07:31:13] <Izaya> nah, winrar under WINE
L517[07:31:14] <The_St​argazer> oh
L518[07:31:15] <The_St​argazer> then uh
L519[07:31:16] <pay​onel> but why not zip, or tar?
L520[07:31:18] <Izaya> :^)
L521[07:31:18] <The_St​argazer> use zip
L522[07:31:19] <The_St​argazer> ^
L523[07:31:26] <The_St​argazer> why rar and not zip
L524[07:31:27] <Er​nos> @payonel I'm debugging a custom OS, and rar because I didn't think of anything else
L525[07:31:37] <Er​nos> It is giving me a strange crash
L526[07:31:38] <pay​onel> it's just so weird to me that ppl still use rar
L527[07:31:43] <The_St​argazer> payonel: tar is less widely supported (?)
L528[07:31:58] <pay​onel> are you using source control, like git? do you have a github i can clone?
L529[07:32:09] <The_St​argazer> at least on windows which is what most people use
L530[07:32:18] <pay​onel> right. thus i said tar/zip
L531[07:32:23] <The_St​argazer> yeah
L532[07:32:23] <Izaya> 7-zip is happy enough with tar files, but yeah
L533[07:32:33] <Er​nos> Payonel, I'm not using source control
L534[07:32:38] <The_St​argazer> ...
L535[07:32:39] <The_St​argazer> use it
L536[07:32:40] <Izaya> always use protection
L537[07:32:40] <The_St​argazer> just
L538[07:32:42] <The_St​argazer> just use it
L539[07:32:46] <Er​nos> This is just a small project
L540[07:32:48] <Izaya> zip makes me unhappy, it doesn't do inter-file compression
L541[07:32:57] <The_St​argazer> it doesn't matter; always use source control
L542[07:33:06] <Er​nos> I'm doing this directly in OC too
L543[07:33:08] <The_St​argazer> you'll thank me later when you accidentally delete something important
L544[07:33:13] <Er​nos> heh
L545[07:33:33] <Ernos> I am having a hard time with catbox
L546[07:33:33] <pay​onel> if you plan to go back and edit a file more than 2 times, you should consider source control
L547[07:33:46] <pay​onel> and, if you're building a custom OS...holy smokes source control
L548[07:33:51] <Er​nos> ok. I've never used source control, and I've done a good bit of programming
L549[07:34:00] <Er​nos> I just never learned how to use any source control platform
L550[07:34:11] <The_St​argazer> Sod's Law (or Murphy's Law) states that if something can go wrong, it will
L551[07:34:13] <Izaya> %gitbook
L552[07:34:17] <pay​onel> if you've done a fair bit of programming, and never used source control, that's actually something you should be concerned about
L553[07:34:26] <Izaya> we should have a link to the git book in MichiBot
L554[07:34:30] <Er​nos> I am concerned
L555[07:34:48] <Forec​aster> link to what?
L556[07:34:54] <The_St​argazer> also, speaking of michibot
L557[07:34:56] <Ernos> Izaya: https://files.catbox.moe/3u2fo4.rar
L558[07:35:00] <Izaya> https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2
L559[07:35:02] <Ernos> That's my entire OS bundled into a .rar
L560[07:35:15] <Forecaster> %command add gitbook https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2
L561[07:35:17] <MichiBot> Forecaster: Command Added! Don't forget to set help text with addcommandhelp!
L562[07:35:26] <The_St​argazer> replace the %inari command with the "oh my how lewd" bit from the neptunia anime
L563[07:35:53] <Ernos> Sorry that took me so long Izaya
L564[07:35:56] <Izaya> and the error?
L565[07:36:03] <Ernos> oh yeah
L566[07:36:04] <Ernos> one sec
L567[07:36:29] <The_St​argazer> from what I know, Inari and Neptunia go together like bread and butter
L568[07:37:02] <Er​nos> Izaya: It's a stack trace, and that is a good bit of typing, as I can't copy out of this http://tinyurl.com/yb4yq2f5
L569[07:37:29] <The_St​argazer> for ref: `ok` is a pcall result
L570[07:37:34] <The_St​argazer> (ok, error)
L571[07:37:57] <The_St​argazer> a file is being called via dofile...
L572[07:37:58] <The_St​argazer> but
L573[07:38:02] <The_St​argazer> why not `require`?
L574[07:38:05] <Ernos> Ocawesome101 wrote this, and I found the error and have been debugging it with him, and he went to bed
L575[07:38:21] <The_St​argazer> `require` > `dofile` for libs
L576[07:38:28] <Izaya> side note I like the date on the error
L577[07:38:32] <Ernos> lol
L578[07:38:40] <Ernos> dofile was made inside of kern.lua
L579[07:39:10] <The_St​argazer> relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/376/
L580[07:39:11] <MichiBot> XKCD Comic Name: Bug Posted on: 1/28/2008
L581[07:39:16] <Ernos> haha
L582[07:40:51] <Ernos> I actually found Ocawesome101's tutorial because I'm wanting to make my own OS. The OS I linked is a modified version of his provided OS. We had to fix the error reporting stuff so it'd actually generate a proper crash message
L583[07:41:00] <Ernos> He developed this in OCVM
L584[07:41:04] <The_St​argazer> imagine a rock-paper-scissors-toaster-bread-freeze bot
L585[07:41:10] <The_St​argazer> imagine a rock-paper-scissors-toaster-bread-freezer bot [Edited]
L586[07:41:45] <The_St​argazer> %tonk
L587[07:41:46] <MichiBot> Zounderkite! The_St​argazer! You beat Squi​dDev's previous record of <0 (By 1 hour, 28 minutes and 53 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L588[07:41:47] <MichiBot> The_Stargazer's new record is 1 hour, 28 minutes and 53 seconds! The_Stargazer also gained 0.00148 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #10. Need 0.00391 more points to pass Ko​dos!
L589[07:42:12] <pay​onel> @Ernos when does that error happen?
L590[07:42:27] <Er​nos> on boot when kern.lua calls shell.lua
L591[07:42:36] <pay​onel> in-game only?
L592[07:42:36] <Er​nos> It's the very last bit of kern.lua
L593[07:42:42] <Er​nos> I have no other way to test it
L594[07:42:51] <pay​onel> well, ocvm i suppose
L595[07:42:53] <Er​nos> I don't have OCVM, so I can't test it there
L596[07:43:00] <Er​nos> I'm on windows
L597[07:43:01] <pay​onel> it works in ocvm
L598[07:43:06] <pay​onel> looks like something i should fix in ocvm 🙂
L599[07:43:07] <Er​nos> yeah, he made it in ocvm
L600[07:43:09] <Er​nos> lol
L601[07:43:15] <pay​onel> izaya - let me know when you find the bug
L602[07:43:21] <pay​onel> i'll fix ocvm to crash the same
L603[07:43:22] <The_St​argazer> there's a fix for the "no ocvm on windows"
L604[07:43:25] <The_St​argazer> google cloud shell.
L605[07:43:28] <Er​nos> huh
L606[07:43:29] <Er​nos> ok
L607[07:43:37] <The_St​argazer> it's basically linux in your browser
L608[07:43:39] <Izaya> I still wanna try to make an ocvm cloud service
L609[07:43:40] <Er​nos> nice
L610[07:43:44] <The_St​argazer> persistent home dir, too
L611[07:43:56] <Er​nos> I'm gonna use cloud shell
L612[07:43:58] <Izaya> but first I'd need to try quotas in ocvm
L613[07:44:06] <The_St​argazer> there are weekly usage limits tho
L614[07:44:10] <Er​nos> oh
L615[07:44:13] <Er​nos> that's bid oof
L616[07:44:16] <Er​nos> big*
L617[07:44:18] <The_St​argazer> 50 hours per week iirc
L618[07:44:24] <Izaya> koding might still have a free tier?
L619[07:44:30] <Izaya> I got my account banned
L620[07:44:35] <The_St​argazer> koding?
L621[07:44:38] <The_St​argazer> also what for
L622[07:44:43] <Izaya> they used to give away free VMs
L623[07:44:48] <The_St​argazer> oh
L624[07:44:55] <The_St​argazer> did you break them
L625[07:44:55] <Er​nos> @payonel this os is written using the default lua bios and lua 5.3
L626[07:44:58] <Izaya> then it turned into "only when you have your browser open"
L627[07:45:09] <Izaya> and I broke the TOS by proxying via them to avoid an obnoxious filtering proxy
L628[07:45:17] <The_St​argazer> so the VM is only active when your browser is open?
L629[07:45:24] <Izaya> yeah plus an hour or so
L630[07:45:27] <pay​onel> @Ernos so is ocvm (the lua version depends on the ocvm build, mine is 5.3)
L631[07:45:30] <Er​nos> ok
L632[07:45:35] <The_St​argazer> i think that's cloud shell too tho
L633[07:45:41] * Izaya shrugs
L634[07:45:43] <Er​nos> so was Ocawesome's version of ocvm
L635[07:45:45] <Izaya> just providing potential options
L636[07:45:49] <CompanionCube> Izaya: hasn't koding been gone for years
L637[07:45:54] <Izaya> dunno
L638[07:45:56] <The_St​argazer> if the VM is inactive for ~1 hour after browser closes it shuts down i think
L639[07:46:01] <Izaya> like I said, I got my account banned :D
L640[07:46:25] <The_St​argazer> looks still around
L641[07:46:26] <The_St​argazer> just googled it
L642[07:47:36] <CompanionCube> https://www.koding.com/blog/2016/03/goodbye-koding-solo-welcome-koding-for-teams/
L643[07:47:47] <CompanionCube> i think they pivoted?
L644[07:48:12] <Izaya> have you checked all these files are valid lua?
L645[07:48:15] <Izaya> like, no syntax errors?
L646[07:48:15] <CompanionCube> 'We are no longer offering single developer accounts, registration for our solo product has closed.' yup
L647[07:48:59] <CompanionCube> Izaya: there's no need for cloud tho?
L648[07:49:30] <Ernos> Izaya: I only have worked with this inside of OpenOS, so I don't know if there are any syntax errors. the error is bad argument #1 (string expected, got nil) though
L649[07:49:30] <CompanionCube> you can probably abuse wasm and stuff to run ocvm entirely locally
L650[07:49:41] <The_St​argazer> wasm?
L651[07:49:44] <Izaya> well
L652[07:49:47] <Izaya> I just checked the files
L653[07:49:55] <Izaya> they're all valid lua
L654[07:49:55] <The_St​argazer> isn't that like
L655[07:49:55] <The_St​argazer> something to do with ASM
L656[07:49:55] <CompanionCube> webassembly
L657[07:49:58] <Izaya> no syntax errors
L658[07:50:04] <Ernos> interesting
L659[07:50:14] <Ernos> I think it has to do with the dofile function, or shell.lua from what I've determined
L660[07:50:21] <The_St​argazer> x86 assembly is a confusing mess
L661[07:50:25] <Ernos> dofile in kern.lua or shell.lua itself
L662[07:50:29] <Izaya> yeah that's where I'm looking
L663[07:50:33] <Ernos> ok
L664[07:50:39] <Ernos> and I can't find anything wrong with either
L665[07:50:40] <Izaya> it's one of the functions that wants a string as first argument
L666[07:50:52] <Ernos> yeah, and dofile gets a string as it's first argument
L667[07:51:01] <Izaya> or loadfile
L668[07:51:05] <CompanionCube> that's because the x86 ISA is crufty af with all the backwards compat not helping
L669[07:51:13] <The_St​argazer> ISA?
L670[07:51:24] <CompanionCube> instruction-set architecture
L671[07:51:27] <Ernos> wtf
L672[07:51:31] <Ernos> my init.lua died
L673[07:51:33] <pay​onel> izaya, intercept error and print debug traceback?
L674[07:51:33] <The_St​argazer> oh
L675[07:51:42] <Ernos> something keeps breaking my floppy
L676[07:51:42] <The_St​argazer> not Individual Savings Account?
L677[07:51:59] <The_St​argazer> try reading/writing slower
L678[07:52:02] <Izaya> this only happens in minecraft, right?
L679[07:52:08] <Ernos> the crash? yeah
L680[07:52:08] <Izaya> not in ocvm?
L681[07:52:08] <pay​onel> yep, ocvm is just fine
L682[07:52:09] <The_St​argazer> they are floppies after all :P
L683[07:52:13] <Izaya> bugger
L684[07:52:15] <CompanionCube> (also at&t syntax sucks, intel syntax ftw)
L685[07:52:28] <The_St​argazer> so wait
L686[07:52:40] <The_St​argazer> can you apply the ocvm bit to OC or nah
L687[07:52:51] <pay​onel> what?
L688[07:52:56] <The_St​argazer> uhh
L689[07:53:00] <The_St​argazer> it works in ocvm right?
L690[07:53:06] <pay​onel> yes
L691[07:53:18] <The_St​argazer> is it possible to make it work in oc using what works in ocvm
L692[07:53:26] <Izaya> suggestion
L693[07:53:34] <pay​onel> ...well, . i'd rather make ocvm fail the same 🙂
L694[07:53:36] <Izaya> use log() to determine exactly which function it occurs in
L695[07:53:40] <pay​onel> but we also dont know the failure
L696[07:53:48] <Izaya> printf debugging ftw
L697[07:53:56] <Ernos> Can you help me with that Izaya? The closest I can get is ok()
L698[07:54:11] <Izaya> well you have a log function
L699[07:54:12] <The_St​argazer> but it's not ok() is it?
L700[07:54:15] <Izaya> so under each function definition
L701[07:54:22] <The_St​argazer> it's ok(false)
L702[07:54:23] <Izaya> just log("functionnamehere")
L703[07:54:29] <Ernos> ok
L704[07:55:11] <pay​onel> add log to the ok() point of failure
L705[07:55:15] <pay​onel> i'd like to see the whole stakc
L706[07:55:22] <pay​onel> just log debug.traceback()
L707[07:55:38] <Ernos> debug.traceback() is how that error message got it's contents
L708[07:55:58] <Izaya> yeah and it's telling you it's presently executing the function to display the traceback
L709[07:55:59] <Izaya> which it is
L710[07:55:59] <pay​onel> oh, /me scrolls
L711[07:56:01] <Izaya> technically
L712[07:56:28] <Ernos> lets see just how bad I break this
L713[07:56:43] ⇨ Joins: Inari (~Pinkishu@pD9E39A3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L714[07:57:47] <Ernos> log() is confusing me
L715[07:57:50] <pay​onel> dofile is not crashing, probably pcall returning the failure
L716[07:58:02] <Ernos> and where you guys want me to put log()
L717[07:58:03] <Ernos> oh
L718[07:58:09] <pay​onel> and something is erroring. i would intercept error and log debug traceback
L719[07:58:13] <pay​onel> which i said 🙂 a few minutes ago
L720[07:58:23] <Er​nos> I'm... not sure how to do that
L721[07:58:33] <Er​nos> debug.traceback() is everywhere
L722[07:58:49] <Izaya> unless used properly, debug.traceback is useless
L723[07:59:01] <Izaya> all your traceback says is that it's displaying the error
L724[07:59:04] <pay​onel> looks like you're already redefining error in kern.lua line 6
L725[07:59:13] <Izaya> because when it's displaying the error, it's running the error display function
L726[07:59:23] <Er​nos> That's the first thing it's displaying
L727[07:59:24] <pay​onel> so there, before you call oe (`original error` i presume) log it
L728[07:59:30] <Er​nos> ok
L729[07:59:45] <Er​nos> that stuff starting at line 6 was added by Ocawesome101 to fix another error we were having
L730[08:01:40] <Er​nos> In the stack, below the error display function, it is showing that it's last thing it did was in ok() but I'm not sure where ok() is or how to log it
L731[08:03:35] <Er​nos> and.... this error isn't helping
L732[08:04:29] <Er​nos> god I am confusion
L733[08:04:32] <Er​nos> and I should go to bed
L734[08:04:41] <Er​nos> but I want this thing to boot to it's lua interpreter, like it should
L735[08:05:09] <pay​onel> ok, i'll load up minecraft 🙂
L736[08:05:24] <Er​nos> cool 🙂
L737[08:08:20] <Er​nos> Here's the OP this all started from: https://oc.cil.li/topic/2259-how-to-write-an-opencomputers-operating-system-for-beginners/?tab=comments#comment-10029
L738[08:10:55] <pay​onel> oh for crying out loud...i was testing the wrong copy of the code
L739[08:11:00] <Er​nos> no
L740[08:11:00] <Er​nos> no
L741[08:11:00] <pay​onel> ok that was 5 minutes wasted
L742[08:11:04] <Er​nos> you were testing the write copy
L743[08:11:09] <pay​onel> :/
L744[08:11:15] <Er​nos> the copy I sent was what we modified to actually make it work-ish
L745[08:11:23] <pay​onel> no
L746[08:11:25] <Er​nos> The code I sent was what you should be running
L747[08:11:41] <pay​onel> i was testing ~/Downloads/ernos/ and not the one running the game
L748[08:11:49] <pay​onel> >_>
L749[08:12:00] <Er​nos> oh
L750[08:19:58] <pay​onel> found it
L751[08:20:03] <Er​nos> oh?
L752[08:20:06] <Er​nos> Where was the error?
L753[08:20:10] <pay​onel> kern.lua line 162
L754[08:20:25] <pay​onel> component.list("sandbox") is going to return an empty iterator, the first call to it, (), will return nil
L755[08:20:31] <pay​onel> you're trying to pass that nil to component.proxy
L756[08:20:46] <pay​onel> so, ocvm doesn't crash because sandbox is specifically a special component in ocvm
L757[08:20:51] <pay​onel> one you don't have in oc
L758[08:20:54] <Er​nos> oh
L759[08:21:03] <Er​nos> So, how do I fix this in oc?
L760[08:21:19] <pay​onel> now, the way to improve your debugging experience to see this --
L761[08:21:31] <pay​onel> well, look at what you're doing with the sandbox component there
L762[08:21:37] <pay​onel> oh, it's not 162 for you, i made edits
L763[08:21:42] <pay​onel> it's in _G.require
L764[08:21:48] <Er​nos> I see the line
L765[08:21:52] <Er​nos> It's 156 for me
L766[08:22:08] <Er​nos> how do I improve my debugging experience, like you were saying?
L767[08:22:40] <pay​onel> well first of all, dofile shouldn't pcall, it should just do
L768[08:22:46] <pay​onel> but i understand you wanted a stack trace
L769[08:22:52] <pay​onel> but pcall is going to toss the stack trace
L770[08:22:53] <Er​nos> the pcall was for debugging this specific error
L771[08:22:59] <pay​onel> pcall is not your friend in debugging
L772[08:23:03] <Er​nos> oh
L773[08:23:03] <pay​onel> xpcall, is
L774[08:23:07] <Er​nos> what's the difference?
L775[08:23:24] <Er​nos> I've not used either before
L776[08:23:54] <pay​onel> https://www.lua.org/manual/5.3/manual.html#pdf-xpcall
L777[08:24:05] <pay​onel> it let's you supply a message handler
L778[08:24:09] <Er​nos> ahh, ok
L779[08:24:14] <pay​onel> so you can grab things such as the stack trace
L780[08:24:29] <Er​nos> cool, ok
L781[08:24:50] <Er​nos> Seeing as how sandbox isn't a component in oc, how do I fix this?
L782[08:25:31] <pay​onel> look at the code. decide why it was being used
L783[08:25:35] <Er​nos> I'm not even sure really what that line is doing
L784[08:25:40] <Er​nos> I can't see any reason for it's use
L785[08:25:43] <pay​onel> it is trying to use the log function from the ocvm sandbox component
L786[08:25:52] <pay​onel> which writes to the vm log
L787[08:25:56] <Er​nos> oh
L788[08:25:59] <pay​onel> essentially, it is a log
L789[08:26:03] <Er​nos> ok
L790[08:26:09] <pay​onel> if you dont need that for your os, then remove it
L791[08:26:11] <Er​nos> ok
L792[08:26:26] <Er​nos> It booted!
L793[08:26:28] <Er​nos> It booted!
L794[08:26:35] <Er​nos> Thank you so much payonel! 🙂
L795[08:26:38] <Er​nos> I removed it
L796[08:26:44] <Er​nos> and it booted into minios
L797[08:26:49] <Er​nos> yay!
L798[08:26:52] <Er​nos> 🙂 🙂 🙂
L799[08:27:12] <Er​nos> thank you a lot! 🙂 Now time to go to bed, I am quite tired
L800[08:31:38] <Forec​aster> argh
L801[08:31:59] <Forec​aster> box nbt generation is working... except the slot index isn't incrementing D:<
L802[08:32:30] <Forec​aster> oh
L803[08:33:24] <Forec​aster> because I put the increment line after the `break` but inside the look it breaks... :|
L804[08:33:27] <Forec​aster> dangit
L805[08:34:00] <Forec​aster> sometimes every time it's the dumbest things
L806[08:40:26] <Forec​aster> @payonel what does this mean... http://tinyurl.com/yb4tx9ud
L807[08:40:48] <pay​onel> the make file tries to find your installation of lua
L808[08:41:30] <pay​onel> apparently the best it did was /usr/include/lua5.2 and it didn't find lua.h there
L809[08:42:08] <pay​onel> if you know where you have lua installed, tell that to ocvm's make: `make luapath=/lua/install/path`
L810[08:43:05] <Izaya> incredible
L811[08:43:14] <pay​onel> ?
L812[08:43:15] <Izaya> VGA out on this machine only works if DisplayPort is plugged in
L813[08:43:31] <Izaya> to a monitor
L814[08:43:56] <pay​onel> 🙂
L815[08:44:05] <Forec​aster> oh... huh
L816[08:44:11] <Forec​aster> I can use find to search the host system
L817[08:44:12] <Forec​aster> neat
L818[08:44:22] <Forec​aster> not what I wanted right now though...
L819[08:46:05] ⇦ Quits: lord| (~ba7888b72@66.109.211.150) (Quit: https://i.imgur.com/xacQ09F.mp4)
L820[08:47:10] <Forec​aster> apparently it's in `/usr/bin/lua`
L821[08:47:24] <pay​onel> that's the executable, but not the lua.h and libs
L822[08:47:31] <pay​onel> you might need to install a devel pkg of lua
L823[08:50:20] ⇨ Joins: lord| (~ba7888b72@66.109.211.150)
L824[08:56:42] <Izaya> okay
L825[08:56:44] <Izaya> even better
L826[08:56:50] <Izaya> the computer thinks the VGA is working
L827[08:56:52] <Izaya> but
L828[08:56:56] <Izaya> the monitor says no signal
L829[08:56:58] <Izaya> even better
L830[08:58:38] <Izaya> so
L831[08:58:40] <Izaya> in summary:
L832[08:58:44] <Izaya> VGA on this machine is fucked.
L833[08:58:49] <Izaya> HDMI on the TV is fucked.
L834[08:59:05] <Izaya> DisplayPort on this machine works, but it would cost more than the machine to convert it to VGA for the TV.
L835[09:03:28] <The_St​argazer> you could try an HDMI to VGA converter
L836[09:08:54] <The_St​argazer> also: don't most TVs have at least 2 HDMI ports? (or is it the same for all ports?)
L837[09:09:56] <The_St​argazer> and i assume the warranty is expired?
L838[09:11:58] <Izaya> it has 3
L839[09:12:01] <Izaya> none of them work
L840[09:12:05] <Izaya> no input from anything
L841[09:12:37] <The_St​argazer> oh
L842[09:12:59] <Izaya> also
L843[09:13:03] <Izaya> I'd need DisplayPort to VGA
L844[09:13:17] <The_St​argazer> why?
L845[09:13:30] <The_St​argazer> does your machine not have an HDMI output
L846[09:13:34] <Izaya> no?
L847[09:13:39] <The_St​argazer> oh
L848[09:13:41] <Izaya> VGA or DisplayPort
L849[09:13:42] <The_St​argazer> laptop?
L850[09:13:44] <Izaya> it's a business desktop
L851[09:13:47] <Izaya> why would it have HDMI
L852[09:13:49] <The_St​argazer> oh.
L853[09:13:52] <The_St​argazer> uhh
L854[09:13:56] <Izaya> HDMI is for consumer garbage
L855[09:13:58] <The_St​argazer> don't most modern computers have HDMI?
L856[09:14:07] <Izaya> only cheap ones
L857[09:14:42] <The_St​argazer> i mean honestly ig it depends on the dGPU (if there is one)
L858[09:14:58] <Izaya> only integrated
L859[09:15:03] <The_St​argazer> integrated HDMI probably isn't (much of?) a thing
L860[09:15:09] <Izaya> business computers don't bother with HDMI
L861[09:15:17] <The_St​argazer> i see your point
L862[09:15:27] <Izaya> projectors and monitors in a business setting are either old - with VGA - or new - with DisplayPort
L863[09:15:38] <Izaya> the only things with HDMI are bad TVs and
L864[09:15:41] <Izaya> yeah that's about it
L865[09:15:54] <Izaya> DisplayPort is just better than HDMI in every way
L866[09:16:07] <The_St​argazer> don't pretty much all TVs these days have HDMI tho?
L867[09:16:08] <Izaya> VGA for legacy, DP for everything else
L868[09:16:25] <Izaya> hm
L869[09:16:31] <Izaya> $8 for a DP to VGA converter
L870[09:16:42] <Izaya> it wouldn't make me happy but it would work
L871[09:17:18] <The_St​argazer> > DisplayPort on this machine works, but it would cost more than the machine to convert it to VGA for the TV.
L872[09:17:19] <The_St​argazer> ...the machine was less than $8?
L873[09:17:35] <Izaya> was assuming shop prices for such things
L874[09:17:39] <The_St​argazer> ohh
L875[09:17:42] <Izaya> the machine was $150
L876[09:17:49] <The_St​argazer> that's rather cheap
L877[09:17:59] <The_St​argazer> is it like old hardware or smthn?
L878[09:18:02] <Izaya> haswell i3, 4GB RAM, 500GB SSHD
L879[09:18:07] <Izaya> pretty new
L880[09:18:52] <The_St​argazer> are business computers just dirt cheap or something
L881[09:19:19] <Izaya> yeah pretty much
L882[09:19:32] <Izaya> haswell era machines are like $150-$400
L883[09:20:01] <Izaya> got a machine with an i7 4790, 16GB of RAM and a 1TB HDD for $300 a while back
L884[09:20:26] <The_St​argazer> i-- how
L885[09:20:35] <Izaya> businesses replace them
L886[09:20:40] <Izaya> they get someone to get rid of them
L887[09:20:49] <Izaya> said someone refurbishes them and puts them on ebay for a mild markup
L888[09:21:26] <The_St​argazer> why does a simple business computer need so much RAM tho
L889[09:21:35] <Izaya> web browsers
L890[09:21:51] <The_St​argazer> chrome?
L891[09:21:56] <Izaya> or firefox
L892[09:22:05] <Izaya> neither are very nice on RAM
L893[09:22:08] <The_St​argazer> i mean firefox is pretty alright
L894[09:22:14] <The_St​argazer> unless you have 50 tabs open
L895[09:22:23] <Izaya> they use far more than a document viewer should
L896[09:22:26] <The_St​argazer> or something like that
L897[09:22:28] <The_St​argazer> i mean
L898[09:22:40] <Izaya> if you say web browsers aren't document viewers I'll hurt you
L899[09:22:42] <The_St​argazer> pages are far more than documents now tho
L900[09:22:54] <Izaya> %stab The_Stargazer
L901[09:22:55] <MichiBot> Iz​aya is stabbing The_Stargazer with a Shiny family of quakers! (10%) for 1d4 => 3 damage!
L902[09:22:56] <The_St​argazer> originally, yes, HTML was just a glorified document format
L903[09:23:01] <The_St​argazer> ow
L904[09:23:13] <Izaya> What'd I say?
L905[09:23:20] <The_St​argazer> would you consider a site like Google or Youtube to be a document tho
L906[09:23:31] <Izaya> youtube is just an abomination
L907[09:23:48] <The_St​argazer> good point
L908[09:23:51] <Izaya> though there's no reason you can't have a video in a document
L909[09:24:06] <Izaya> but at the point you start badly reimplementing other software in a web browser?
L910[09:24:08] <Izaya> nah
L911[09:24:08] <The_St​argazer> i mean
L912[09:24:10] <Izaya> fuck that
L913[09:24:19] <The_St​argazer> if you said that to a web developer two decades ago
L914[09:24:21] <Izaya> HTTP is designed for:
L915[09:24:26] <Izaya> retreiving documents.
L916[09:24:28] <Izaya> That's it.
L917[09:24:29] <The_St​argazer> they'd give you an "are you crazy" look
L918[09:24:39] <The_St​argazer> then.. new protocol?
L919[09:24:45] <Izaya> Yes!
L920[09:24:52] <Izaya> Use a protocol designed for your use-case!
L921[09:24:54] <The_St​argazer> what though
L922[09:24:57] <The_St​argazer> wait
L923[09:24:57] <Izaya> There's lots of them, for lots of use-cases!
L924[09:25:02] <The_St​argazer> a protocol for every use case?
L925[09:25:13] <Izaya> Did you know there are protocols for video delivery?
L926[09:25:14] <The_St​argazer> that'd... be a lot of protocols
L927[09:25:17] <Izaya> Instant messaging?
L928[09:25:19] <The_St​argazer> ..wait, what
L929[09:25:40] <Izaya> HTTP is not the everything-hammer
L930[09:25:45] <Izaya> It's bad at everything but delivering documents.
L931[09:25:45] <The_St​argazer> also: "might"
L932[09:25:57] <The_St​argazer> try telling that to Google or Amazon
L933[09:26:03] <The_St​argazer> or [big web company XYZ]
L934[09:26:11] <Izaya> disassemble them
L935[09:26:12] <Izaya> eat the rich
L936[09:26:15] <Izaya> and the web developers
L937[09:26:28] <The_St​argazer> easier said than done :P
L938[09:26:57] <The_St​argazer> also
L939[09:27:03] <The_St​argazer> instead of having lots of small protocols
L940[09:27:08] <The_St​argazer> why not just have one big protocol
L941[09:27:20] <Izaya> because that would be one big protocol that's bad at everything
L942[09:27:25] <Izaya> even IP isn't good at things
L943[09:27:40] <The_St​argazer> so... scrap the internet and try again?
L944[09:27:43] <Izaya> no
L945[09:27:47] <Izaya> you aren't listening
L946[09:27:52] <Izaya> stop using one thing for everything
L947[09:28:00] <Izaya> telephony has its own L3 protocols because IP can be too high-latency
L948[09:28:05] <The_St​argazer> what if you need to do multiple things?
L949[09:28:14] <Izaya> then use multiple protocols
L950[09:28:26] <The_St​argazer> is it possible to combine multiple protocols in one request?
L951[09:28:33] <Izaya> ...
L952[09:28:43] <The_St​argazer> in a URL that is
L953[09:28:43] <Izaya> What does that even mean?
L954[09:28:56] <The_St​argazer> uhh
L955[09:28:59] <The_St​argazer> hang on
L956[09:29:05] <The_St​argazer> irc is a protocol right?
L957[09:29:08] <Izaya> right
L958[09:29:18] <The_St​argazer> how would you handle webchat, then?
L959[09:29:27] <Izaya> in an ideal world, you wouldn't
L960[09:29:29] <Izaya> you'd just
L961[09:29:33] <Izaya> use IRC through an IRC client
L962[09:29:45] <The_St​argazer> unfortunately, not everyone can install one
L963[09:30:08] <The_St​argazer> e.g. school or work computer
L964[09:30:16] <Izaya> Maybe that's intentional.
L965[09:30:53] <The_St​argazer> what is? prevention of software installation or usage of IRC?
L966[09:31:01] <The_St​argazer> (or both?)
L967[09:31:05] <Izaya> Prevention of software installation.
L968[09:31:13] <Izaya> Almost as if there's a good reason for it.
L969[09:31:13] <The_St​argazer> that makes sense
L970[09:31:16] <Izaya> t. sysadmin
L971[09:31:24] <The_St​argazer> t.?
L972[09:31:27] <Izaya> If it's not your computer, don't fuck with it.
L973[09:32:07] <Izaya> apparently t. is short for a finnish word for regards
L974[09:32:12] <The_St​argazer> i mean
L975[09:32:12] <The_St​argazer> what if you are given permission to (I quote) "fuck with it", despite it not being your computer?
L976[09:32:13] <The_St​argazer> oh
L977[09:32:30] <Izaya> then you'll be able to install software
L978[09:32:47] <Izaya> generally speaking
L979[09:32:53] <Izaya> if you're not allowed to do something
L980[09:32:57] <Izaya> there's usually a reason for that
L981[09:33:00] <The_St​argazer> yes, exactly
L982[09:33:24] <The_St​argazer> a better saying would be: "If you don't have permission to fuck with it, then don't."
L983[09:33:37] <The_St​argazer> yes
L984[09:33:40] <The_St​argazer> usually good
L985[09:33:47] <CompanionCube> webchat is effectively an irc<->http bridge
L986[09:33:58] <CompanionCube> there's nothing unique here in the slightest
L987[09:34:12] <Izaya> fwiw
L988[09:34:21] <Izaya> I'm not against protocol bridges
L989[09:34:35] <CompanionCube> Izaya: also you're one to talk about not fucking with things lol
L990[09:34:48] <The_St​argazer> also, speaking of school devices: i don't think my school understands how to lock down computers (or they just don't care)
L991[09:34:48] <The_St​argazer> (this is a school laptop i'm using)
L992[09:34:58] <Izaya> but I am against cramming all functionality of a computer into one application with infinite scope, zero maintainability, and a protocol just not designed for that
L993[09:35:04] <The_St​argazer> i mean i'm assuming they don't really care
L994[09:35:06] <Izaya> CompanionCube: I was in the wrong. I accept that. I don't regret anything.
L995[09:36:29] <Izaya> Am (was?) I a little shit? For sure.
L996[09:37:21] <The_St​argazer> i mean, i assume one of the main reasons http is still the one-size-fits-all thing is because it "works" (and nobody wants to knock over the metaphorical tower)
L997[09:37:36] <CompanionCube> I'm very much thinking of /u/tuxedo_jack right now. BOFH-Ascended Izaya is cool?
L998[09:37:57] <Izaya> more along the lines of webshits don't know any other way and/or are too lazy to try anything else
L999[09:38:29] <CompanionCube> Izaya: hey, don't forget the polished turds that are 'middleboxes'
L1000[09:39:18] <Izaya> Sure, you can implement IM on top of HTTP. Will it be easy in Javascript? Probably. Will it be horridly inefficient? Yes! Will it be a horrid perversion that makes everyone that looks at it want to die? Yes! Do you care, with your i7 99999990k, 256GB RAM GTX 10800000Ti monster machine? Fuck no, you just get paid!
L1001[09:39:45] <Izaya> To me it represents a lack of artistry and self-respect.
L1002[09:40:02] <Izaya> No pride in one's work.
L1003[09:40:22] <Forec​aster> woo, payment processing complete
L1004[09:40:29] <Forec​aster> now onto stats junk
L1005[09:40:31] <Izaya> But I only have to deal with this shit once it's written, so what do I know, I guess?
L1006[09:40:37] <Izaya> >.>
L1007[09:40:50] <Izaya> I should probably check peertube hasn't crashed.
L1008[09:41:19] <CompanionCube> Izaya: i wonder if/when electron will stress the GPU as it does the RAM
L1009[09:41:27] <Forec​aster> but first I want to check out WorldControl
L1010[09:41:38] <Forec​aster> see if it still has that thing that let you count EU's passing through
L1011[09:42:19] <Izaya> CompanionCube: I don't see it happening for a while
L1012[09:42:23] <Izaya> unless something does heavy 3D
L1013[09:42:32] <Forec​aster> also, anyone happen to know a small mod that adds a creative tank?
L1014[09:42:33] <Izaya> we had 2D acceleration basically perfected in the mid 90s
L1015[09:43:15] <CompanionCube> is 2D accel even a thing on GPUs now or is it subsumed
L1016[09:43:29] <Izaya> I imagine it's just part of the 3D subsystem
L1017[09:43:34] <Izaya> used for texture processing or something
L1018[09:44:00] <Forec​aster> it doesn't... damn
L1019[09:44:02] <Forec​aster> >:
L1020[09:44:26] <Forec​aster> I might be able to make a power counting system, but it'll not be 100% accurate
L1021[09:44:49] <CompanionCube> maybe closest thing would be KMS and bits of DRM?
L1022[09:52:25] <Sagh​etti> imagine not using websockets
L1023[09:54:28] <Izaya> imagine using worse TCP
L1024[09:54:34] <Sagh​etti> 2d can be simulated using orthogonal 3d
L1025[09:56:02] <Forec​aster> %sip
L1026[09:56:02] <MichiBot> You drink a gloopy emerald potion (New!). An incredibly fake looking mustache is stuck to Forec​aster's face until they eat a pie.
L1027[09:57:01] <Forec​aster> %tonk
L1028[09:57:03] <MichiBot> Consarn it! Forec​aster! You beat The_St​argazer's previous record of 1 hour, 28 minutes and 53 seconds (By 46 minutes and 22 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L1029[09:57:03] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new record is 2 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds! Forecaster also gained 0.00154 (0.00077 x 2) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #2. Need 0.03983 more points to pass Compan​ionCube!
L1030[09:57:43] <Forec​aster> hm, no reply yet
L1031[10:04:04] <Izaya> alright so
L1032[10:04:43] <Izaya> move my documentation finding function into the doc library as the call() metatable function?
L1033[10:06:42] ⇨ Joins: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-74-3.dynamic.as20676.net)
L1034[10:06:42] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L1035[10:36:43] <Izaya> interesting
L1036[10:36:49] <Izaya> I think my terminal driver is eating newlines.
L1037[10:43:24] <Kristo​pher38> Yes
L1038[10:43:40] <Izaya> https://social.shadowkat.net/media/957a8fe41a6c6b2eb0c1ed13af3b5b6a91fdfb7d4491513ccf1b8e06fcec5068.png
L1039[10:43:43] <Izaya> https://social.shadowkat.net/media/b6a11cc30f7176fdc325d9cc86e46a8e05038b71b72310d9bc6b703103b0e06c.png
L1040[10:44:04] <Forec​aster> @Michiyo webhook's gone super laggy again
L1041[10:56:18] ⇨ Joins: Berntsen (~Berntsen@static.194.152.203.116.clients.your-server.de)
L1042[10:57:07] ⇦ Quits: Berntsen (~Berntsen@static.194.152.203.116.clients.your-server.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
L1043[11:17:02] <Elfi> Wow
L1044[11:17:33] <Elfi> I somehow read Izaya's statement as "I think my terminal driver is eating my intestines"
L1045[11:17:42] <Izaya> that too
L1046[11:17:46] <Elfi> And that sounds like a problem alright
L1047[11:17:50] <Izaya> but I felt it prudent to exclude that from IRC
L1048[11:18:33] <Elfi> Also have you ever just... hallucinated a cat?
L1049[11:18:40] <Izaya> unsure
L1050[11:18:42] <Izaya> possibly
L1051[11:18:46] <Izaya> but I couldn't find the cat
L1052[11:19:04] <Izaya> but that's a null result, not a negative result
L1053[11:19:13] <Elfi> Felt their pressure on the bed, heard their gentle purring as they approached beside your head, and then when you open your eyes, nothing?
L1054[11:19:26] <Izaya> nothing quite that comfy
L1055[11:19:31] <Elfi> Aw
L1056[11:19:49] <Izaya> tfw no cats for the last 6 months
L1057[11:23:29] <Bin​ary> Quantum cats
L1058[11:27:03] ⇦ Quits: S|h|a|w|n (~shawn156@c-76-25-73-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1059[11:34:43] ⇦ Quits: Victorsueca (~Victor_su@90.165.120.190) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)
L1060[11:54:09] <Elfi> Or I'm haunted by a ghost cat who loves me dearly
L1061[11:55:53] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv|afk (~ben_mkiv@mue-88-130-63-172.dsl.tropolys.de) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)
L1062[12:10:36] ⇨ Joins: PressALTandF4 (~pressalta@p5DFD3025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L1063[12:11:22] <PressALTandF4> hi
L1064[12:11:38] <Forec​aster> hello
L1065[12:13:02] <PressALTandF4> ALT + F4 = admin permissions
L1066[12:13:28] <Forec​aster> yes that'll definitely work in a channel full of sysadmins
L1067[12:14:48] <Elfi> Eternal september is over, buddy
L1068[12:15:00] <Elfi> All the skiddies are on discord and social media
L1069[12:15:06] <Elfi> Ah, but I repeat myself
L1070[12:15:30] <Izaya> I've heard it said IRC is undergoing a "reverse eternal september" now
L1071[12:19:12] <Elfi> Funny how they called it eternal
L1072[12:20:03] <Elfi> Corporatization of the internet sure changed that, herding them all into their own pens
L1073[12:20:21] <simon816> PressALTandF4, Ctrl + W for super user permissions
L1074[12:21:30] <PressALTandF4> i press Ctrl and w
L1075[12:21:53] <PressALTandF4> xD
L1076[12:22:04] <Elfi> Type sudo echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger to unlock root access on all remote systems
L1077[12:22:53] <PressALTandF4> sudo echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger
L1078[12:22:56] <simon816> `sudo echo` wouldn't work. try echo b | sudo tee /proc/sysrq-trigger
L1079[12:23:11] <Elfi> Spoilsport
L1080[12:23:24] <PressALTandF4> sudo tee /proc/sysrq-trigger
L1081[12:23:40] <PressALTandF4> T
L1082[12:23:49] <Elfi> I guess since echo is part of the shell that's only fair
L1083[12:25:35] <Elfi> Could've sworn sudo implemented it too though, idk
L1084[12:25:43] <zOmegaS​killer_> i cant exit lua
L1085[12:25:51] <Elfi> Press ctrl+D
L1086[12:25:55] <zOmegaS​killer_> exit() is not work
L1087[12:25:59] <zOmegaS​killer_> ok
L1088[12:26:30] <Elfi> Either way I'm still in bed and haven't had any coffee yet
L1089[12:26:44] <Elfi> Cuddling my moth and sleeping sounds better rn
L1090[12:26:53] <Izaya> did you get the moth
L1091[12:26:57] <Elfi> Yes!
L1092[12:26:59] <Izaya> :D
L1093[12:27:03] <Elfi> It finally arrived a week ago
L1094[12:27:21] <Elfi> And then Squishable went and announced a new moth
L1095[12:27:26] <Izaya> figures
L1096[12:27:27] <Elfi> orz
L1097[12:27:34] <PressALTandF4> t
L1098[12:27:41] <Elfi> That's okay, now I can have two cute moths
L1099[12:28:27] <Elfi> The new rosy maple moth plush is even cuter, and just as pink as the real thing
L1100[12:29:31] <Forec​aster> I read that as maple mosh pit
L1101[12:31:02] <Elfi> After what I read Izaya's earlier statement as, I have no room to complain
L1102[12:31:56] <Elfi> https://www.squishable.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=mini_squish_rosy_maple_7 look at this precious baby tho
L1103[12:35:08] ⇨ Joins: TS5 (~ts5@p5DFD3025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L1104[12:38:32] ⇦ Quits: TS5 (~ts5@p5DFD3025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Client Quit)
L1105[12:44:41] <Kristo​pher38> uwu
L1106[12:46:26] <Forec​aster> uh http://tinyurl.com/ycjbblrr
L1107[12:47:07] ⇦ Quits: PressALTandF4 (~pressalta@p5DFD3025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
L1108[12:47:17] <Kristo​pher38> Ah yesss, cosmetic skins
L1109[12:55:26] ⇨ Joins: immibis (~immibis@46.114.33.226)
L1110[13:21:43] <Amanda> %ping
L1111[13:21:45] <MichiBot> Ping reply from Ama​nda 0.81s
L1112[13:24:15] <Amanda> Well, that's~6h of logs lost to the void
L1113[13:24:25] <Amanda> Lilac's disk filled up again
L1114[13:32:13] ⇦ Quits: AshleighTheCutie (~tf101@075-139-058-072.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)
L1115[13:39:44] <The_St​argazer> so apparently this bluetooth speaker needs power even when plugged in via aux cord
L1116[13:40:00] <The_St​argazer> i have to ask
L1117[13:40:02] <The_St​argazer> why tho
L1118[13:40:46] <Forec​aster> probably because the aux feeds into a circuit board, but the speakers are powered by it's powersupply
L1119[13:40:54] <The_St​argazer> oh
L1120[13:41:09] <Amanda> or it's got an amp
L1121[13:41:27] <Forec​aster> or that
L1122[13:41:35] <Amanda> just the aux cord's levels are really low for hearing, only really good for headphones.
L1123[13:41:50] <The_St​argazer> ^
L1124[13:41:53] <Amanda> I used to have a set of aux cord speakers that didn't need power, I could fart louder than they were
L1125[13:42:33] <The_St​argazer> why do speakers need power again?
L1126[13:42:33] <The_St​argazer> is it to power the (?) magnet inside?
L1127[13:42:40] <The_St​argazer> (do speakers have magnets inside anymore?)
L1128[13:42:53] <Amanda> more power means more movement of the magnets
L1129[13:43:09] <The_St​argazer> higher vibration frequency or something?
L1130[13:43:39] <Amanda> the power levels of an aux cord aren't enough to move bigger speakers far enough
L1131[13:43:48] <Amanda> so it comes out softer
L1132[13:43:58] <The_St​argazer> aux cords transmit power?
L1133[13:44:07] <Amanda> ... that's all signals are, power
L1134[13:44:14] <The_St​argazer> oh, right
L1135[13:44:27] <The_St​argazer> audio is just an electric signal to a computer
L1136[13:45:16] <Amanda> if you mean do they provide additional, non-signal power, no. They're ring-ring-tip, two audio signals, one ground signal
L1137[13:46:04] <Amanda> the audio signal (split by side) goes to two of the rings, then returns to the tip, providing a closed signal loop to move the speakers in thhe headset
L1138[13:46:58] <Amanda> I mean, you **could** get a small amount of power bu playing a constant, loud, noise, but that's notreally their purpose
L1139[13:47:51] <The_St​argazer> ah
L1140[13:47:59] <The_St​argazer> what about headsets with mics tho?
L1141[13:48:07] <Amanda> those have another ring
L1142[13:48:12] <The_St​argazer> oh
L1143[13:48:17] <Forec​aster> all signals are just electricity, except if they're optic fiber :P
L1144[13:48:23] <Amanda> mics are also just electricity
L1145[13:48:31] <The_St​argazer> speaking of that
L1146[13:48:33] <Forec​aster> or wireless, then they're radio
L1147[13:48:44] <Amanda> Air movements generates a small amount of current, which gets processed into audio in the computer
L1148[13:49:09] <The_St​argazer> when you split a combined audio input-output signal into an input signal and an output signal, is it still 2 signals per output/input?
L1149[13:49:14] <Amanda> Fun fact -- speakers can also be used as mics, if you're clever enough in the wiring.
L1150[13:50:20] <Amanda> they'd be increcibly shitty mics, but it is possible. It's like how an electric motor is also a generator
L1151[13:51:16] <Amanda> ( Which is why you should be careful blowing out fans in your computer, if it's not a recent computer with protection, you risk frying the MB )
L1152[13:51:17] <The_St​argazer> is that how car batteries recharge while the car is in motion?
L1153[13:51:24] <Amanda> yup
L1154[13:51:37] <The_St​argazer> ah
L1155[13:51:48] <Amanda> electricity is wild, we've tamed lightningand taught it to do math
L1156[13:52:01] <The_St​argazer> how does that work? converting heat energy into electric energy or something?
L1157[13:52:06] <The_St​argazer> also:
L1158[13:52:10] <The_St​argazer> %s/math/maths
L1159[13:52:10] <Forec​aster> I mean, fuel cars have a generator
L1160[13:52:11] <MichiBot> <Amanda> electricity is wild, we've tamed lightningand taught it to do maths
L1161[13:52:31] <Amanda> lightning isalready electricity.
L1162[13:52:42] <Amanda> It's a possive charge in the earth and a negative charge in the storm clouds
L1163[13:52:47] <Amanda> positiive*
L1164[13:53:01] <Amanda> Lightning actually starts on the ground, then flashes down
L1165[13:53:12] <The_St​argazer> this reminds me of something
L1166[13:53:16] <The_St​argazer> lightning is plasma, right?
L1167[13:53:22] <Amanda> it generates plasma
L1168[13:53:27] <Amanda> when it splits the atoms of the air
L1169[13:53:52] <The_St​argazer> well, anyway
L1170[13:53:52] <The_St​argazer> i once had to explain to someone that there are four - not three - states of matter
L1171[13:54:12] <Amanda> We're up to like, 5-6 now, I think? Matter is wild.
L1172[13:54:28] <Amanda> The world is wild, who authorised the simulation to be this complex!?
L1173[13:54:58] <The_St​argazer> this also reminds me
L1174[13:55:12] <The_St​argazer> i made a conspiracy theory version of the "this statement is false" paradox
L1175[13:55:45] <The_St​argazer> stating that all conspiracy theories are false, which would include the one making that claim
L1176[13:57:24] <Z0id​burg> its fun to see lightning go from the ground to the sky in slow motion cameras
L1177[13:58:01] <Kristo​pher38> @The_Stargazer aux voltage level is 0.8V rms, that is 2.2V peak-to-peak
L1178[13:58:20] <M​GR> Amanda, it's more than 6 now. There's a ton of them, and we're always finding more
L1179[13:58:33] <The_St​argazer> okay now you're using acronyms i don't understand, slow down there
L1180[13:58:34] <Kristo​pher38> Generally the higher the voltage, the louder the speaker
L1181[13:58:40] <The_St​argazer> what's an rms
L1182[13:58:59] <Z0id​burg> I hear rms and I think Root Mean Square
L1183[13:59:24] <Kristo​pher38> RMS is concept related to alternating current - the one driving your speaker but it's not relevant here
L1184[13:59:43] <Z0id​burg> @The_Stargazer it's 0.707 * the peak voltage
L1185[13:59:54] <Z0id​burg> peak is 1.414 * rms
L1186[14:00:07] <The_St​argazer> peak voltage as in AC output? or maximum voltage the speaker can handle
L1187[14:00:08] <The_St​argazer> peak voltage as in AC output? or maximum voltage the speaker can handle? [Edited]
L1188[14:00:53] <DaCompu​terNerd> I think that's specific to certain waveforms zoidburg
L1189[14:00:57] <Z0id​burg> speakers aren't rated in volts
L1190[14:01:33] <Z0id​burg> they're measured by wear and tear, usually by maxmimum power and continuous rated maximum power
L1191[14:01:45] <The_St​argazer> i know basically nothing about electricity lol
L1192[14:01:45] <The_St​argazer> i mean i think i read somewhere that wattage = volts * amps
L1193[14:01:46] <The_St​argazer> but idk if that's true
L1194[14:02:01] <Z0id​burg> I went to school for electrical engineering you should too 🙂
L1195[14:02:18] <The_St​argazer> eh, i'd rather study computer science
L1196[14:02:27] <Z0id​burg> I was bundled with computer engineering
L1197[14:02:36] ⇨ Joins: PressALTandF4 (~pressalta@p5DFD3025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L1198[14:02:43] <PressALTandF4> t
L1199[14:02:48] <The_St​argazer> oh god, this guy
L1200[14:02:52] <DaCompu​terNerd> A square wave would have a very different ratio of RMS to peak voltage
L1201[14:03:06] <Z0id​burg> Yes it would
L1202[14:03:15] <Z0id​burg> I was talking about a CW sine wave
L1203[14:03:15] <PressALTandF4> t
L1204[14:03:16] <PressALTandF4> t
L1205[14:03:16] <PressALTandF4> t
L1206[14:03:16] <DaCompu​terNerd> The ratio would be 1, actually
L1207[14:03:16] <PressALTandF4> t
L1208[14:03:16] <PressALTandF4> t
L1209[14:03:16] <PressALTandF4> t
L1210[14:03:16] <PressALTandF4> t
L1211[14:03:17] <PressALTandF4> tt
L1212[14:03:17] <PressALTandF4> t
L1213[14:03:17] <PressALTandF4> tt
L1214[14:03:18] <PressALTandF4> t
L1215[14:03:19] <PressALTandF4> t
L1216[14:03:19] <PressALTandF4> t
L1217[14:03:19] <PressALTandF4> t
L1218[14:03:20] <PressALTandF4> t
L1219[14:03:20] <PressALTandF4> t
L1220[14:03:21] <The_St​argazer> PressALTandF4: that's not going to work in a channel full of nerds and...
L1221[14:03:21] <PressALTandF4> t
L1222[14:03:21] <PressALTandF4> t
L1223[14:03:22] <PressALTandF4> t
L1224[14:03:23] <PressALTandF4> t
L1225[14:03:23] <PressALTandF4> t
L1226[14:03:24] <PressALTandF4> t
L1227[14:03:24] <The_St​argazer> oh he's spamming now
L1228[14:03:24] <PressALTandF4> t
L1229[14:03:24] <PressALTandF4> t
L1230[14:03:25] <PressALTandF4> t
L1231[14:03:25] <PressALTandF4> t
L1232[14:03:29] <The_St​argazer> wonderful, fucking wonderful
L1233[14:03:33] <Amanda> %ban PressALTandF4
L1234[14:03:41] <Amanda> welp, I tried.
L1235[14:03:44] <Amanda> Lizzy: ?
L1236[14:03:49] <DaCompu​terNerd> Damn he's on the irc end so can't block it
L1237[14:03:58] <Forecaster> %tban PressALTandF4 24h spam
L1238[14:03:59] *** PressALTandF4 was kicked by zsh ((MichiBot) Reason: spam | For: 24h | Expires: 05/11/2020 08:03:58 AM))
L1239[14:04:07] <zOmegaS​killer_> /BAN PressALTandF4
L1240[14:04:23] <Kristo​pher38> Speakers are driven by AC electricity - if it works only with aux plugged in, that electricity that is carried in the aux cable is driving the speaker, but it also happens to carry the waveform, the sound you hear
L1241[14:04:23] <Amanda> %pat @Forecaster
L1242[14:04:30] <Amanda> %pet @Forecaster
L1243[14:04:31] <MichiBot> Amanda is petting @Forecaster with a Shiny collection of Ariri's hair! (10%). @Forecaster regains 1d6 => 3 hit points!
L1244[14:04:36] <The_St​argazer> so wait, question
L1245[14:04:38] <DaCompu​terNerd> Discord lets you block a given user. Collapses their messages into a single thing, among other things
L1246[14:04:40] * Amanda wonders where that came from
L1247[14:05:00] <Forec​aster> that's great but they were on IRC @DaComputerNerd
L1248[14:05:04] <DaCompu​terNerd> But yes, the RMS voltage for a square wave would be the peak voltage
L1249[14:05:09] <DaCompu​terNerd> That's what im saying
L1250[14:05:09] <The_St​argazer> if computer speakers are controlled by.. well, the computer, how do they beep when there is no CPU?
L1251[14:05:20] <The_St​argazer> does the board have an onboard chip?
L1252[14:05:21] <DaCompu​terNerd> "Damn he's on the irc end so can't block it"
L1253[14:05:21] <M​GR> The motherboard has a controller on it
L1254[14:05:54] <The_St​argazer> that makes me wonder what the most essential component is between the board and the PSU
L1255[14:06:08] <DaCompu​terNerd> Both equally id say
L1256[14:06:14] <Amanda> beeps are super-simple waveforms to generat
L1257[14:06:18] <The_St​argazer> i mean i'd say the PSU because.. wait, can the board beep without power?
L1258[14:06:19] <DaCompu​terNerd> You get just as far without either
L1259[14:06:27] <The_St​argazer> that is, not very far
L1260[14:06:36] <DaCompu​terNerd> Exactly
L1261[14:06:41] <Amanda> you can get a beep with just a 555 chip I think
L1262[14:06:50] <The_St​argazer> also apparently my laptop has a beep code for critical low battery
L1263[14:06:55] <Amanda> which is like, the simplest timer
L1264[14:06:59] <The_St​argazer> i forgot it tho
L1265[14:07:10] <Kristo​pher38> @The_Stargazer have you ever seen something like this http://tinyurl.com/y7lzk7l2
L1266[14:07:12] <DaCompu​terNerd> Can't try to turn on the machine without a motherboard to respond to the power button, and can't beep without power
L1267[14:07:20] <The_St​argazer> nope
L1268[14:07:21] <Z0id​burg> Calculating RMS can be done pretty easily. It's basically defined as: http://tinyurl.com/y8ubv5wb
L1269[14:07:24] <The_St​argazer> i mean
L1270[14:07:24] <The_St​argazer> sort of
L1271[14:07:48] <The_St​argazer> i recognize the waveforms
L1272[14:08:01] <DaCompu​terNerd> A square wave can be written as Vmax*sgn(sin(t))
L1273[14:08:16] <The_St​argazer> okay now i'm confused
L1274[14:08:19] <DaCompu​terNerd> The square makes that signum just 1
L1275[14:08:42] <The_St​argazer> @Z0idburg define "pretty easily"
L1276[14:08:42] <Kristo​pher38> @The_Stargazer the beep sound that you hear can be drawn as a chart of voltage changing over time (as the chart goes to the right)
L1277[14:08:53] <Z0id​burg> its just calculus
L1278[14:09:10] <The_St​argazer> of which i know nothing about
L1279[14:09:28] <Z0id​burg> if you don't want to do integral math just calculate the riemann sum
L1280[14:09:35] <DaCompu​terNerd> Then the integral gives Vmax^2*(T2-T1), then divide by (T2-T1) and take the root and you get Vmax
L1281[14:09:38] <The_St​argazer> ...calculate the what?
L1282[14:09:51] <Z0id​burg> its like the duct tape of integration
L1283[14:10:08] <DaCompu​terNerd> Thus, for a square wave, the RMS voltage is the peak voltage
L1284[14:10:47] <The_St​argazer> my one defining skill is that I can smash words together to tell a computer what to do
L1285[14:10:56] <The_St​argazer> ironically, i can't smash words together to tell people what to do
L1286[14:11:22] ⇨ Joins: t20kdc (~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net)
L1287[14:11:31] <Kristo​pher38> So those waves that are plotted on the screenshots can be easily generated by something else than a CPU
L1288[14:11:42] <Kristo​pher38> So those waves that are plotted on the screenshot can be easily generated by something else than a CPU [Edited]
L1289[14:11:46] <The_St​argazer> also i have a non-standard brain, dunno if that's a skill tho
L1290[14:12:19] <Amanda> ah, t20kdc, just the person I wanted to see
L1291[14:12:33] <Z0id​burg> So Stargazer one of my cpu architecture design professors once said something horrible to our one computer science student in the entire class. He was from asia and his english was broken, he comes in smiling to class one day and looks at the computer science student. He goes "Okay class, know what difference between computer science student, and computer engineering student is?"
L1292[14:13:12] <Z0id​burg> "Computer engineering student know what pointer is!"
L1293[14:13:24] <The_St​argazer> pointer, as in, mouse cursor?
L1294[14:13:33] <Z0id​burg> NO lol
L1295[14:13:58] <Kristo​pher38> I failed to get the joke
L1296[14:14:00] <The_St​argazer> well, i can gather that it points at something, but then again that's... a lot of things
L1297[14:14:03] <The_St​argazer> also same
L1298[14:14:16] <Kristo​pher38> Why the compsci student doesn't know what a pointer is
L1299[14:14:23] <Kristo​pher38> He should
L1300[14:14:27] <Kristo​pher38> Don't they teach C?
L1301[14:14:28] <The_St​argazer> i mean
L1302[14:14:36] <The_St​argazer> oh,
L1303[14:14:38] <The_St​argazer> that kind of pointer
L1304[14:14:45] <Z0id​burg> yes that kind of pointer
L1305[14:14:51] <The_St​argazer> i forgot those existed lol, i don't do C
L1306[14:15:04] <The_St​argazer> i probably should learn it
L1307[14:15:12] <Z0id​burg> its mostly because in computer engineering you're implementing pointers in hardware
L1308[14:15:28] <Z0id​burg> not using some programming language, I thought it was hilarious
L1309[14:15:39] <The_St​argazer> ...wait, what's a hardware pointer
L1310[14:15:54] <The_St​argazer> you mean like
L1311[14:15:57] <The_St​argazer> literal hardware
L1312[14:16:14] <The_St​argazer> or a pointer directly referencing a hardware device
L1313[14:16:51] <Kristo​pher38> I think I know how implementing a pointer in hardware would work, but I still I don't get what's so funny about that
L1314[14:17:01] <SquidDev> %tonk
L1315[14:17:01] <MichiBot> Heckgosh! Squi​dDev! You beat Forec​aster's previous record of 2 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds (By 2 hours, 4 minutes and 42 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L1316[14:17:02] <The_St​argazer> also i just thought of a horrible abomination
L1317[14:17:02] <MichiBot> SquidDev's new record is 4 hours, 19 minutes and 59 seconds! SquidDev also gained 0.00624 (0.00208 x 3) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #5. Need 0.08218 more points to pass simo​n816!
L1318[14:17:22] <Kristo​pher38> Because he roasted a compsci student?
L1319[14:18:11] <Z0id​burg> There are a lot of things the study of computer engineering does that most compsci majors will never know, or never even need to know to be honest
L1320[14:18:19] <The_St​argazer> HTMJSavaCASMNET
L1321[14:18:19] <The_St​argazer> why use one programming language when you can use six?
L1322[14:18:24] <DaCompu​terNerd> I saw a funny code meme
L1323[14:18:47] <DaCompu​terNerd> "Most code is like onions: the more you peel back, the more you want to cry"
L1324[14:18:52] <The_St​argazer> break the computational laws of physics while you're at it too!
L1325[14:19:12] <The_St​argazer> wait
L1326[14:19:24] <The_St​argazer> is it possible to mix high-level and low-level code in one hypothetical language?
L1327[14:19:30] <Z0id​burg> for example, I've met very few compsci students that are able to explain how a simple comparison of is equal to is usually done.
L1328[14:20:12] <Z0id​burg> but its not important in many cases
L1329[14:20:17] <DaCompu​terNerd> I prefer Visual HTMJSavaCASMNET## stargazer
L1330[14:20:30] <The_St​argazer> that's outdated tho
L1331[14:21:04] <The_St​argazer> HTMJSavaCASMNET#DBAsic is newer
L1332[14:21:14] <Z0id​burg> one way to test this theory also is to tell a computer science major to write a conditional expression in brainfuck
L1333[14:22:40] <Kristo​pher38> @Z0idburg you mean sub and test if zero flag is set?
L1334[14:22:56] <Z0id​burg> yeah that's the most common way.
L1335[14:23:09] <Z0id​burg> its also fast and cheap on the hardware
L1336[14:23:19] <Kristo​pher38> XOR also comes to mind
L1337[14:23:39] <Kristo​pher38> But it'd have to modify zero flag, don't know if that's common or not
L1338[14:24:03] <Z0id​burg> subtraction is often a xor'd operation anyways considering all you have to do is xor one of the inputs of an adder
L1339[14:24:09] <Z0id​burg> and it becomes a subtractor
L1340[14:24:15] <Kristo​pher38> Yeah
L1341[14:24:52] <Z0id​burg> I've been designing my own stack machine PCB but I haven't had time
L1342[14:25:04] <Z0id​burg> I'd love to have a stack machine with some forthlike and a UART
L1343[14:26:24] <Kristo​pher38> I wish to build a simple computer in hardware akin to Ben Eater's one but with more capabilities
L1344[14:26:25] <Z0id​burg> its really small I almost implementedit in Minecraft but again time
L1345[14:26:33] <Z0id​burg> do it 🙂
L1346[14:27:09] <Kristo​pher38> I mean, I bought all the components a long time ago
L1347[14:27:11] <Z0id​burg> I'm planning for a minicomputer like system with DMA style MMU interfaces to devices using a laser diodes
L1348[14:27:19] <Z0id​burg> minicomputer*
L1349[14:27:20] <Kristo​pher38> But haven't bought a wire cutter yet
L1350[14:27:21] <Z0id​burg> sorry not a micro
L1351[14:27:39] <Z0id​burg> the plan is to use SPDIF cables
L1352[14:27:40] <Kristo​pher38> And my breadboards are most probably too cheap
L1353[14:27:59] <Z0id​burg> getting PCBs made is so cheap now
L1354[14:28:04] <Z0id​burg> through places like OSH park
L1355[14:28:45] <Kristo​pher38> Using laser diodes? That's something I haven't seen in minicomputers
L1356[14:29:03] <Z0id​burg> I've also been thinking of the idea of hacking an old laser printer to print on copper plated fiberglass
L1357[14:29:07] <Z0id​burg> so I can dip them in acid
L1358[14:29:12] <Z0id​burg> (for testing)
L1359[14:29:21] <Kristo​pher38> Oh, I managed to get that done
L1360[14:29:30] <Kristo​pher38> Though not with a laser printer
L1361[14:29:34] <Kristo​pher38> But with a laminator
L1362[14:29:42] <Z0id​burg> OH really, how well does that work
L1363[14:30:38] <Kristo​pher38> Well, I print the schematic on a glossy paper with a laser printer with the highest DPI and fill-in possible so it's sharp and uses a lot of toner
L1364[14:31:02] <Z0id​burg> hmm
L1365[14:31:09] <Z0id​burg> I didnt think about how much toner it may use
L1366[14:31:32] <Kristo​pher38> Then I cut out the paper with the schematic, and cut out the PCB to fit it
L1367[14:31:53] <Z0id​burg> you need a gcode milling machine 😄
L1368[14:32:27] <Z0id​burg> you could avoid the acid all together with that though
L1369[14:33:28] <Kristo​pher38> Clean the PCB with some steel wool to scrape away the oxidated layer, some water and alcohol
L1370[14:33:45] <Z0id​burg> hm
L1371[14:34:13] <Kristo​pher38> And then I put the paper facing down onto the copper layer and put it several times through the heated-up laminator
L1372[14:35:03] <Kristo​pher38> The catch is, you have to stop the laminator turning periodically when the plate is between the rollers
L1373[14:35:16] <Kristo​pher38> So it heats up and the toner sticks
L1374[14:35:48] <Z0id​burg> ah
L1375[14:36:19] <Kristo​pher38> Else it won't heat up enough so even if you put it through a thousand times without stopping it, it won't stick since the plate cools down too quickly
L1376[14:36:34] <Z0id​burg> yeah
L1377[14:36:42] <Kristo​pher38> So I hacked my laminator to do that, controlled digitally by an atmega
L1378[14:37:16] <Z0id​burg> how do you handle the problem of sleeving the anular holes or whatever, do yuo just through hole solder everything top and bottom?
L1379[14:37:37] <Z0id​burg> or stick a wire in the anular rings and solder top and bottom for those too
L1380[14:38:05] <Z0id​burg> or perhaps just not even both and only do one layer pcb
L1381[14:38:54] <Kristo​pher38> You mean the uh, those holes which go from one layer to the other?
L1382[14:39:10] <Kristo​pher38> I didn't do those, only did 1-layer pcbs
L1383[14:39:28] <Kristo​pher38> Lining up two layers perfectly would be really hard
L1384[14:42:02] <Z0id​burg> yes
L1385[14:42:23] <Z0id​burg> I like to have two layers
L1386[14:42:37] <Z0id​burg> I ususally use the bottom for ground
L1387[14:43:01] <Kristo​pher38> http://tinyurl.com/y8726j8e
L1388[14:43:06] <Z0id​burg> a long time ago I used to cover the entire board on bottom with ground and top with positive and run wires in between, but I discovered that that's a REALLY BAD idea
L1389[14:43:08] <Kristo​pher38> Found it
L1390[14:43:22] <Kristo​pher38> It's really bad, I know
L1391[14:43:34] <Kristo​pher38> I'm starting and stopping it with a relay
L1392[14:43:48] <Kristo​pher38> It's 230V AC synchronous motor or sth
L1393[14:43:52] <Z0id​burg> that ispretty good
L1394[14:44:05] <Kristo​pher38> I mean the solution is really hacky
L1395[14:44:12] <Z0id​burg> can barely see iut, is that a solid state relay?
L1396[14:44:31] <Z0id​burg> for response time
L1397[14:44:42] <Kristo​pher38> But using the proper thing, what was it called in english
L1398[14:44:48] <Kristo​pher38> Variable frequency drive?
L1399[14:45:02] <Kristo​pher38> Is too expensive for that sort of hobby project
L1400[14:45:03] <Z0id​burg> huh
L1401[14:45:14] <Kristo​pher38> iut?
L1402[14:45:27] <Z0id​burg> it*
L1403[14:46:38] <Z0id​burg> what do you use for a cad
L1404[14:46:44] <Z0id​burg> I've started moving to kicad
L1405[14:46:52] <Z0id​burg> but I use gschem for prototyping ideas and charts
L1406[14:47:18] <Kristo​pher38> Nah, it's just a cheap standard electromechanical relay
L1407[14:47:47] <Kristo​pher38> I've only used eagle
L1408[14:48:27] <Kristo​pher38> I did like what, only 5 or 6 boards tbh
L1409[14:48:34] <Z0id​burg> I used to use geda pcb
L1410[14:49:15] <Z0id​burg> for my homebrew minicomputer Iw ant to make a memory controller interface ssimilar to the control panel of an altair or a PDP
L1411[14:49:50] <Z0id​burg> it will allow me to write the first program for it and save it to memory
L1412[14:49:54] <Kristo​pher38> This whole "printing pcbs at home idea" was just so I could do a project that would need smd components because it needs to fit inside a pen
L1413[14:50:23] <Z0id​burg> i may not even use eeproms, I may just use RAM instead with batteries
L1414[14:50:56] <Kristo​pher38> But I lack an oscilloscope so after I finally managed to design the PCB and solder that stuff and it didn't work, I have no real way to debug it
L1415[14:51:10] <Z0id​burg> I have never done SMD I don't have the stuff for it
L1416[14:51:14] <Z0id​burg> but I would love to
L1417[14:51:16] <Kristo​pher38> It worked on the breadboard though
L1418[14:51:29] <Kristo​pher38> Yeah, I also lack a hotair gun
L1419[14:51:55] <Z0id​burg> I watched somebody do it and I was like wow that's fast as hell
L1420[14:51:55] <Kristo​pher38> So the soldering around the fpc connector or whatever it was called was messy
L1421[14:52:07] <Z0id​burg> the parts basiclaly magnetize to the board
L1422[14:52:13] <Z0id​burg> if you do it right
L1423[14:52:20] <Kristo​pher38> Yeah it's really cool
L1424[14:52:32] <Kristo​pher38> But you need proper equipment
L1425[14:52:37] <Kristo​pher38> And a solder mask on the pcb
L1426[14:52:51] <Z0id​burg> also I wanted to go with laser diodes because it allows me to create my own custom serial protocol for fiber optic device cables.
L1427[14:53:05] <Z0id​burg> and I can just use the spdif crap they use for fiber audi
L1428[14:53:08] <Z0id​burg> audio*
L1429[14:53:22] <Kristo​pher38> Also altair-like front panel 👌 I approve
L1430[14:53:34] <Z0id​burg> yeah itl be a good debugger
L1431[14:53:37] <Z0id​burg> it may be the most expensive pcb
L1432[14:53:45] <Z0id​burg> due to all of the flip flops and stuff for debouncing
L1433[14:53:55] <Kristo​pher38> Yeah
L1434[14:54:06] <The_St​argazer> ..why do you need a circuit board inside a pen?
L1435[14:54:21] <The_St​argazer> you mean like, a stylus pen?
L1436[14:54:29] <Z0id​burg> ?
L1437[14:54:43] <Kristo​pher38> Because SmartPen, don't you like that idea?
L1438[14:54:49] <The_St​argazer> i mean
L1439[14:54:51] <Z0id​burg> pineapple apple pen?
L1440[14:54:55] <The_St​argazer> what would it do
L1441[14:55:07] <Kristo​pher38> Not for a stylus, regular pen
L1442[14:55:32] <Kristo​pher38> Display stuff for you on the tiny oled display
L1443[14:56:26] <Z0id​burg> I wish kicad had comments
L1444[14:56:39] <Kristo​pher38> Cheating on exams, connecting to the web, saving your notes by analyzing sensor data
L1445[14:56:51] <Z0id​burg> because I just opened up one of the schematics for the front panel of this thing and I'm going, ok what am I doing here..
L1446[14:56:54] <Z0id​burg> what doe sthis do..
L1447[14:57:14] <Z0id​burg> http://tinyurl.com/yajwcvrt
L1448[14:57:15] <Kristo​pher38> Well, connecting to the web directly is kinda harsh on battery in this environment, in hindsight I'd rather go with BLE
L1449[14:57:30] <Z0id​burg> http://tinyurl.com/yaseq8rf
L1450[14:57:39] <Z0id​burg> I do like kicad
L1451[14:57:44] <Kristo​pher38> :GWchadThonkery:
L1452[14:58:07] <Kristo​pher38> I haven't done much designing to have a preference, haven't tried other cad software yet
L1453[14:58:27] <Z0id​burg> I noticed all of those say D0 and L0 lol
L1454[14:58:45] <Z0id​burg> they're all hooked up to the same toggle switch!
L1455[14:58:56] <The_St​argazer> no, it's just laughing at you
L1456[14:59:08] <The_St​argazer> also
L1457[14:59:20] <The_St​argazer> how would a smart pen work for exams?
L1458[14:59:26] <The_St​argazer> don't they require you use a specific pencil?
L1459[15:00:07] <Z0id​burg> I do like that my design uses a serial data and address bus
L1460[15:00:11] <Z0id​burg> instead of parallel lines
L1461[15:00:26] <Z0id​burg> the DMA controller system is clocked WAY faster than the CPU
L1462[15:00:36] <Kristo​pher38> Not here
L1463[15:00:44] <Z0id​burg> so like the CPU may run one clock cycle every 24 clock cycles
L1464[15:01:20] <t20kdc> Z0idburg: I assume there's a tool which would write text onto the schematic. Maybe that would work as a comment?
L1465[15:01:31] <Z0id​burg> and of course the actual transmission is clocked even higher, hundreds of times higher
L1466[15:01:49] <Z0id​burg> yeah there is t20kdc
L1467[15:01:51] <The_St​argazer> i mean i guess they don't expect students to build their own cheating pens
L1468[15:01:54] <The_St​argazer> so ¯\(ツ)/¯
L1469[15:01:57] <Kristo​pher38> @Z0idburg what's the advantage, you don't have to worry about usual parallel-transfer bottlenecks?
L1470[15:02:45] <Z0id​burg> major advantage is less wiring with the drawback that every IO device has to have a "DMA client"
L1471[15:02:53] <Z0id​burg> I call it
L1472[15:02:57] <Z0id​burg> an IO circuit
L1473[15:03:11] <Z0id​burg> also less interferance
L1474[15:04:11] <Z0id​burg> the IO backplaneis like a MMU/DMA hub with daisy chainable fiber ports.
L1475[15:04:46] <Z0id​burg> also, this design allows for multiple CPU architecture over fiber
L1476[15:04:55] <immibis> are you making your own computer equipment?
L1477[15:04:58] <Z0id​burg> you can use multiple CPUs and talk to eachother ver the DMA system
L1478[15:05:02] <immibis> oh yes, you are
L1479[15:05:06] <immibis> that's pretty cool
L1480[15:05:26] <Kristo​pher38> I'd do computer engineering if I wasn't more into software
L1481[15:05:32] <Z0id​burg> its been a project on the radar for a long time. a minicomputer instead of a microcomputer, pcbs with all the loguc chips on it like the old days
L1482[15:05:36] <immibis> you can do it anyway Kristopher38
L1483[15:05:39] <Z0id​burg> easy to repair and debug
L1484[15:05:53] <immibis> I still have my half-finished transistor computer that I haven't touched in 8 months
L1485[15:05:56] <Kristo​pher38> That being said, I do really like low-level stuff
L1486[15:06:09] <immibis> Kristopher38: check out logisim if you haven't already
L1487[15:06:14] <Kristo​pher38> Down to the level of logic gates
L1488[15:06:19] <Kristo​pher38> @immibis#0000 you bet I did
L1489[15:06:35] <Z0id​burg> yu know whats finny immibis I was at a friends house a while back and he pulled out boxes, and boxes, and boxes of triodes and diode tubes loaded.
L1490[15:06:42] <Z0id​burg> I was like, "want to build an accumulator?"
L1491[15:06:52] <Z0id​burg> first thought
L1492[15:07:04] <immibis> Kristopher38: now build a computer in logisim, then imagine it with chips instead of computer screen smbols
L1493[15:07:07] <immibis> symbols*
L1494[15:07:20] <immibis> and then build that and find out there are zillions of timing issues
L1495[15:07:22] <Z0id​burg> I have no experience with tubes but I understand somewhat how they work
L1496[15:07:33] <Kristo​pher38> Yeah, I imagine
L1497[15:07:33] <Z0id​burg> The triodes are kind of like an op amp
L1498[15:07:36] <immibis> as I understand them (very basically), tubes are more-or-less high voltage FETs
L1499[15:07:48] <Kristo​pher38> That's why I mostly stick with software and simulations
L1500[15:07:52] <immibis> with a different transfer characteristic, but for a computer you just need "fully on" and "fully off"
L1501[15:08:04] <Z0id​burg> they're also power hungry
L1502[15:08:49] <Z0id​burg> OH I'm an idiot
L1503[15:08:59] <Z0id​burg> I just realize why in that schematic above I used mosfets
L1504[15:09:12] <immibis> i've never tried to make something with tubes, but I've seen a few circuit diagrams, and the triode circuits look about the same as transistor circuits. And tetrodes I think are the same thing with an extra ground connection? But then you get to tubes with more than one control grid, and that's not really something that exists with transistors
L1505[15:10:17] <Kristo​pher38> I have enough practical knowledge to do basic electronics, but I would probably fail at building a computer irl that I'd like to be clocked "fast", since I don't have a scope
L1506[15:10:20] <Z0id​burg> yeah I've seen huge and complicated tubes before
L1507[15:10:21] <immibis> apparently they used tubes with 5 grids (3 of which are shields) in order to implement a whole circuit in one tube, in order to get around per-tube licensing fees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagrid_converter
L1508[15:10:28] <Z0id​burg> with tons and tons of leads
L1509[15:10:32] <Z0id​burg> and shittons of crap in them
L1510[15:11:00] <Z0id​burg> oh this makes sense
L1511[15:11:04] <Z0id​burg> these are fairly simple
L1512[15:11:11] <Kristo​pher38> But I also lack most of theoretical knowledge
L1513[15:11:15] <Z0id​burg> they're using the RF signal in to control the grid with valves the flow of current
L1514[15:11:32] <Z0id​burg> pretty much like with a transistor
L1515[15:11:49] <immibis> like I said, basically high voltage FETs
L1516[15:12:29] <Z0id​burg> I'll be releasing the schematics to my PCB boards online
L1517[15:12:38] <Z0id​burg> and boot program instructions
L1518[15:12:53] <Kristo​pher38> I should be going, thanks for talking and thanks for mentioning solid state relays @Z0idburg, didn't knew they existed
L1519[15:13:01] <Z0id​burg> ye ano problem
L1520[15:13:12] <Z0id​burg> yeah no problem* lol
L1521[15:14:07] <Z0id​burg> I originally wanted to build a 12 bit computer but it would have meant more work hacking ideas for the memory chips etc
L1522[15:14:15] <Z0id​burg> and waste of bits that werent in use
L1523[15:14:33] <Z0id​burg> I decided to go with 16 bit because might as well
L1524[15:15:06] <Z0id​burg> I don't have to worry about building 8 - 16 bit addressing circuits or things like that
L1525[15:16:26] <Z0id​burg> why did I do this..
L1526[15:17:09] <Kristo​pher38> Also before I go - you can get the idea of my PCB making process from this guy's video @Z0idburg
L1527[15:17:09] <Kristo​pher38> https://youtu.be/LrTcaH20jvc
L1528[15:17:10] <MichiBot> Making a printed circuit board. | length: 14m 33s | Likes: 38 Dislikes: 1 Views: 2,107 | by Martin | Published On 25/2/2016
L1529[15:17:39] <Z0id​burg> cool! Thanks
L1530[15:18:07] <Z0id​burg> oh if only I would read
L1531[15:18:10] <Z0id​burg> http://tinyurl.com/y7hqhnhl
L1532[15:18:15] <Z0id​burg> I was like why are these pin headers connected...
L1533[15:18:21] <Z0id​burg> light indicators XD
L1534[15:18:34] <Izaya> S3 did you see my latest tweaks to my documentation thingo
L1535[15:18:49] <Z0id​burg> no where is it
L1536[15:18:55] <Izaya> https://social.shadowkat.net/media/957a8fe41a6c6b2eb0c1ed13af3b5b6a91fdfb7d4491513ccf1b8e06fcec5068.png
L1537[15:18:58] <Izaya> https://social.shadowkat.net/media/b6a11cc30f7176fdc325d9cc86e46a8e05038b71b72310d9bc6b703103b0e06c.png
L1538[15:19:58] <Z0id​burg> oooOOooo
L1539[15:20:37] <immibis> you can order custom PCBs, nowadays there are plenty of companies that do this (mostly Chinese). You don't have to make them yourself, but you can if you want
L1540[15:20:55] <Z0id​burg> Yeah I usually go with osh park
L1541[15:21:19] <Z0id​burg> there's a new one I found that makes white PCBs with black silk scren though and wiring
L1542[15:21:24] <Z0id​burg> and I REALLY like it
L1543[15:21:53] <Izaya> documentation is parsed from the source files, you can add documentation "searchers" (like the package.searchers sorta thing), you can define colours for custom types
L1544[15:22:20] <Z0id​burg> not wiring lol
L1545[15:22:35] <Z0id​burg> that was a typo
L1546[15:22:56] <Z0id​burg> I really like that Izaya right now I'm using comments
L1547[15:23:00] <Z0id​burg> you've seen the ones I use in trotwood
L1548[15:23:06] <Izaya> yeah
L1549[15:23:15] <Izaya> you could happily add another searcher that parses your documentation format
L1550[15:23:26] <Izaya> and then have live documentation from the living system
L1551[15:23:44] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> i should probably document tsuki
L1552[15:23:49] <Z0id​burg> I only like my documentation format because my comments are faded so they don't look like line noise to me lol
L1553[15:24:16] <Izaya> the library should be reasonably portable
L1554[15:24:21] <Izaya> it's just glue code after all
L1555[15:24:24] <Z0id​burg> there are cases where my document format doesnt work well
L1556[15:24:46] <Z0id​burg> dude you know what I should
L1557[15:24:54] <Z0id​burg> because then I can make it show documentation when you get errors
L1558[15:25:06] <Z0id​burg> showing where it may have gone wrong
L1559[15:25:12] <Izaya> that'd be neat
L1560[15:25:20] <Z0id​burg> I could make some sort of type checker
L1561[15:25:26] <Z0id​burg> like a typespec library
L1562[15:25:37] <Z0id​burg> but 100% comments
L1563[15:26:19] <Izaya> that could be interesting
L1564[15:43:07] <Z0id​burg> finding tiny sram chips is almost impossible today
L1565[15:43:28] <Z0id​burg> I only need like 512 bytes
L1566[15:43:35] <Z0id​burg> but the smallest I can get is 1 KB
L1567[15:44:35] <Z0id​burg> I could use a much larger sram chip that holds the entire memory map
L1568[15:44:48] <Z0id​burg> but I would need to create a pipeline system for writing back to memory
L1569[15:44:56] <Z0id​burg> and buffer things
L1570[15:45:26] <Z0id​burg> the goal is to make the stack processor as efficiently fast as possible
L1571[15:45:37] <Z0id​burg> requiring at maximum 3 cycles to do the most advanced instructions
L1572[15:46:21] <Z0id​burg> with that said, each cycle is split into 4 smaller clock pulses
L1573[15:49:21] <Z0id​burg> the cpu clock goes into a circuit that generates a 180 degrees out of phase aquare wave and both square waves are fed into a rising and falling edge trigger, which genberates 4 clock pulses per input clock cycle. the clock pulses drive an up counter register that is fed into the instruction decoder much like the way a 6502 does and a combination of the counter register and the clock pulse being sebr during that cycle is used to execute
L1574[15:49:21] <Z0id​burg> instructions.
L1575[15:50:25] <Z0id​burg> the cpu clock goes into a circuit that generates a 180 degrees out of phase aquare wave and both square waves are fed into a rising and falling edge trigger, which genberates 4 clock pulses per input clock cycle. the clock pulses drive an up counter register that is fed into the instruction decoder much like the way a 6502 does and a combination of the counter register and the clock pulse triggering during that cycle is used to execute
L1576[15:50:25] <Z0id​burg> instructions. [Edited]
L1577[15:50:32] <Inari> Edited
L1578[15:50:43] <Z0id​burg> oh shit you saw that twice?
L1579[15:50:54] <Inari> yes ;D
L1580[15:50:58] <Z0id​burg> damn
L1581[15:51:39] <Z0id​burg> immibis: Seems reasonable?
L1582[15:52:29] <immibis> It sounds like you're trying to find tricks to multiply the clock frequency. Why not just use the higher frequency to start with?
L1583[15:52:35] <immibis> just so you can say on the label that the frequency is low?
L1584[15:53:56] <immibis> apart from that, sounds pretty normal
L1585[15:54:19] <Z0id​burg> It was more that some instructions require circuitry that fires just before or after others. with 4 clock pulses I have cp0..cp3 which can be hardwired to any instruction allowing me to almost pipeline their behavior. If I didn't split the clock cycles up, I would have a counter to do that for me or some sort of delay circuitry
L1586[15:54:23] <immibis> the current instruction register and some sort of sub-instruction counter are used to generate the control signals for the rest of the CPU
L1587[15:54:41] <immibis> a multi-phase clock can be used as the sub-instruction counter
L1588[15:55:32] <Forec​aster> %sip
L1589[15:55:32] <MichiBot> You drink a fiery strawberry potion (New!). Forec​aster is now Borg until they exit the room.
L1590[15:55:50] <immibis> 4 separate clock pulses are a multi-phase clock, it just sounded a bit of a convoluted way to generate one. But I don't know how they're usually generated
L1591[15:55:55] <Forec​aster> %inv add [Edited]
L1592[15:55:55] * MichiBot summons '[Edited]' and adds to her inventory. This seems very sturdy.
L1593[15:56:16] <immibis> also 180 degrees out of phase means the rising edge of one clock is the falling edge of the other. So you really only have 2 phases. You need a 90 degree delay
L1594[15:57:53] <Z0id​burg> actually its 90 degrees
L1595[15:57:56] <Z0id​burg> yeah I just realized that
L1596[15:58:12] <Z0id​burg> I was thinking about it and was like WAIT
L1597[15:59:16] <immibis> here is one way to generate clocks that are 90 degrees out of phase: http://tinyurl.com/ycpk2e3k
L1598[15:59:36] <immibis> by dividing a clock that's 4x the frequency
L1599[15:59:49] <Z0id​burg> you can use two d flip flops
L1600[15:59:58] <Z0id​burg> oh thats what that is
L1601[16:01:48] <immibis> I think my one generates two clocks 180 degrees out of phase, and uses those to advance the master-slave flipflops in the sub-instruction counter. Those are the only edge-triggered thing in the entire system, because level-triggered things use less transistors.
L1602[16:02:42] <immibis> (i think i actually called it the microcode state register)
L1603[16:03:06] <immibis> (I haven't touched the project in 8 months, hence all the "I think")
L1604[16:07:35] <Inari> I need to stop be lazy and get a fpga :p
L1605[16:07:40] <Inari> *being
L1606[16:13:25] <Amanda> Well, that was odd. AwesomeWM just crashed when I tried to reload
L1607[16:16:24] <Amanda> Apparently it segfalted
L1608[16:18:27] <Z0id​burg> so much for a quiet day..
L1609[16:18:54] <Z0id​burg> I am not going to be using any FPGAs in my computer project
L1610[16:19:07] <Z0id​burg> because the fpga would then be more powerful than the entire computer itself.
L1611[16:19:36] <Z0id​burg> I am however, using CPLDs for the MMU and DMA system
L1612[16:19:42] <Z0id​burg> CPLDs are great
L1613[16:20:03] <Izaya> CPLDs are cool, but have you considered: parallel ROMs
L1614[16:20:29] <Izaya> tfw using EPROMs for address decoding
L1615[16:20:33] <Z0id​burg> I have but I haven't been able to find any PROMs out there that are still manufactured today
L1616[16:20:39] <Z0id​burg> and EEPROMs are way too slow
L1617[16:20:47] <Z0id​burg> like 200ns slow
L1618[16:20:54] <Izaya> you can get EPROMS
L1619[16:21:01] <Izaya> surprisingly
L1620[16:21:24] <Z0id​burg> aren't those just EEPROMs with a UV erase? I haven't used them
L1621[16:21:31] <Izaya> pretty much
L1622[16:21:44] <Izaya> wait
L1623[16:21:45] <Z0id​burg> I have also considered using SRAM
L1624[16:21:46] <Izaya> no
L1625[16:21:55] <Izaya> they're closer to PROMs than EEPROMs
L1626[16:22:01] <Z0id​burg> huh
L1627[16:22:09] <Izaya> you have to write to them with like +15V and UV erases them
L1628[16:22:11] <Izaya> somehow
L1629[16:22:40] <Izaya> I read about it once.
L1630[16:23:02] <Z0id​burg> you can also take them outside and leave them on your porch for a day
L1631[16:23:05] <Z0id​burg> 🙂
L1632[16:23:26] <Izaya> man
L1633[16:23:28] <Izaya> I live in Australia
L1634[16:23:32] <Izaya> how do you think I erase them
L1635[16:23:35] <Z0id​burg> lol
L1636[16:23:48] <Izaya> we got that wonderful hole in the ozone layer
L1637[16:37:02] <Z0id​burg> http://tinyurl.com/ybul8hjm
L1638[16:42:01] <The_St​argazer> %tonk
L1639[16:42:02] <MichiBot> I'm sorry The_Stargazer, you were not able to beat SquidDev's record of 4 hours, 19 minutes and 59 seconds this time. 2 hours and 25 minutes were wasted! Missed by 1 hour, 54 minutes and 58 seconds!
L1640[16:42:13] <The_St​argazer> oh
L1641[16:42:21] <The_St​argazer> when did that happen? didn't see that one
L1642[16:42:46] <SquidDev> About 2.5 hours ago :p. Sorry!
L1643[16:42:51] <Z0id​burg> lol
L1644[16:46:17] <Izaya> Amanda, S3, @Ocawesome101 https://git.shadowkat.net/izaya/OC-PsychOS2/src/branch/master/lib/doc.lua
L1645[16:53:30] ⇨ Joins: Thutmose (~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com)
L1646[17:07:38] <Ocawes​ome101> Izaya: nice
L1647[17:07:59] <Er​nos> Izaya: I concur, nice
L1648[17:16:28] ⇨ Joins: Victor_sueca (~Victor_su@90.165.120.190)
L1649[17:21:56] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> yay
L1650[17:21:57] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> win2k
L1651[17:33:11] ⇨ Joins: Backslash (~Backslash@d137-186-220-152.abhsia.telus.net)
L1652[17:47:05] <Izaya> Ocawesome101: should be reasonably portable, and extensible to whatever documentation system you like
L1653[17:50:53] <Ocawes​ome101> Sweet
L1654[17:55:52] ⇨ Joins: AshleighTheTablet (~ashleight@075-139-058-072.res.spectrum.com)
L1655[17:56:02] <AshleighTheTablet> henlo
L1656[17:57:03] <Forec​aster> soup
L1657[17:58:11] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> Izaya: n i c e
L1658[18:04:32] ⇦ Quits: AshleighTheTablet (~ashleight@075-139-058-072.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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L1664[18:25:21] <Michiyo> Anyone here have experience with the MediaWiki cite extension?
L1665[18:26:32] <Michiyo> I imported about 50k pages.. a bunch of them have <ref> tags.. but none of them actually parsed the references, likely because the extension wasn't enabled when I imported 'em
L1666[18:26:37] <Michiyo> but now I can't seem to reparse.
L1667[18:28:27] <Brisingr​Aerowing> Currently at a laundromat as our dryer is still broken. It seems that either the motor or the relay is busted as well.
L1668[18:28:51] <Ernos> I think I'm gonna learn coroutines
L1669[18:30:56] ⇨ Joins: AshleighTheTablet (~ashleight@075-139-058-072.res.spectrum.com)
L1670[18:36:35] <Ernos> I think, first, I am gonna write my own version control software in OpenOS
L1671[18:37:37] <Amanda> I wonder if SVN would be any more reasonable to implement in OC
L1672[18:37:52] <Amanda> since it's not distributed, it's not got to keep a bunch of data locally
L1673[18:38:05] <Amanda> and it
L1674[18:38:12] <Amanda> 's ancient, so it might not even have packed binary data
L1675[18:38:57] <Ernos> hmm. That'd be interesting. I want some sort of version control. What do you guys use for version control in game?
L1676[18:39:27] <Amanda> I don't do version cocntrol in-game, I do it externally in the editor I do all my coding in, and rsync into a in-game disk
L1677[18:40:28] <Ernos> I think I'm just gonna make an in-game server and copy my stuff to it as a rudimentary manual version control
L1678[18:40:29] <Forec​aster> ^
L1679[18:43:53] <Amanda> that's what I do as well, then frequest the files around
L1680[18:43:59] <Ernos> ok
L1681[18:44:17] <Ernos> I like to do my programming in game. I find it more fun and interesting
L1682[18:44:52] <Amanda> I've always had trouble using the wrong keybindings in other editors, so I prefer to do the editing in my editor of choice
L1683[18:45:00] <Ernos> ahh, fair enough
L1684[18:45:23] <Amanda> back when I used vim, it'd not be uncommon for `:wq` to end up in files I was editing remotely using nano
L1685[18:45:49] <Ernos> heh
L1686[18:46:22] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> so
L1687[18:46:32] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> i'm now installing freebsd
L1688[18:46:37] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> on the P3 machine
L1689[18:46:41] <Ernos> that's odd. This server isn't seeing the floppy drive that's next to it
L1690[18:47:19] <Amanda> is the floppy drive on the same side as the server is configured to expect components on?
L1691[18:47:26] <Ernos> yeah
L1692[18:47:37] <Ernos> It's on the right side of the rack, same side the server is expecting
L1693[18:47:51] <Forec​aster> your right or the racks right?
L1694[18:47:59] <Ernos> oh, my right
L1695[18:48:02] <Ernos> so it's on the rack's left
L1696[18:48:25] <Ernos> now it's working
L1697[18:50:06] <CompanionCube> Amanda: if you want proper ancient, implement RCS
L1698[18:50:12] <CompanionCube> or SCCS
L1699[18:50:28] <CompanionCube> no binary data or networking involved whatsoevee
L1700[18:50:43] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> ext2 support in win2k
L1701[18:50:44] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> let's go
L1702[18:51:07] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> also installing freebsd failed :(
L1703[18:51:10] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> oh well
L1704[18:51:18] <CompanionCube> downside is that it only works on a per-file basis, though
L1705[18:58:42] ⇦ Quits: AshleighTheTablet (~ashleight@075-139-058-072.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
L1706[18:59:09] <Ernos> How can I easily copy the contents of a floppy? I wanna backup this floppy every so often
L1707[18:59:45] <B​ob> recursively copy all files from one floppy to antoher
L1708[19:00:56] <Ernos> ok
L1709[19:01:57] <Izaya> speaking of editors
L1710[19:02:13] <Izaya> dynamically loadable ced vi commands, plus a user aliases thingo?
L1711[19:02:35] <ThePi​Guy24> but noone was talking about editors
L1712[19:02:45] <Izaya> sure they were
L1713[19:02:48] <Izaya> 15 minutes ago
L1714[19:03:32] <Ernos> What is lua? I've never heard of this thing called "lua" before
L1715[19:06:04] <Ernos> Time to make a shell for my OS that isn't just a lua interpreter
L1716[19:06:33] <Ernos> To help with that, I'm gonna figure out how OpenOS's shell works
L1717[19:06:48] <Izaya> Lua REPL best shell
L1718[19:07:06] <Izaya> ~ someone that most here would consider insane
L1719[19:07:14] <Ernos> heh, you are insane
L1720[19:07:14] <Ernos> lol
L1721[19:07:27] <Izaya> it's like
L1722[19:07:32] <Izaya> you get a high-level language
L1723[19:07:37] <Izaya> the computer directly speaks it
L1724[19:07:45] <Izaya> to speak to the computer, you speak its language
L1725[19:08:25] <Ernos> But a proper shell is good
L1726[19:08:33] <Ernos> because you can actually interact with the filesystem
L1727[19:08:45] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> you can interact with the filesystem
L1728[19:08:46] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> with lua
L1729[19:09:23] <Ernos> but I want to make an OS that isn't painful to use
L1730[19:09:38] <Ernos> aka not using a lua interpreter as it's shell
L1731[19:10:03] <Izaya> ye of little faith
L1732[19:10:21] <Izaya> just needs some comfort features
L1733[19:10:23] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> shell can have utils
L1734[19:10:24] <Izaya> good aliases
L1735[19:10:35] <Izaya> libraries designed to be used as commands as well
L1736[19:10:35] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> i think my boot floppy just froze
L1737[19:10:39] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> yikes
L1738[19:10:57] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> i'm trying to install haiku
L1739[19:10:58] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> :(
L1740[19:11:22] <Ernos> I need to figure out why my interpreter is outputting so many newlines, and why it prints true when it runs a line of lua without error
L1741[19:11:44] <Izaya> pcall
L1742[19:12:05] <Ernos> ahh
L1743[19:12:10] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> ABSOLUTELY ANCIENT HARDWARE
L1744[19:12:11] <Ernos> time to yeet all pcall out of here
L1745[19:12:28] <Izaya> [shell crashes]
L1746[19:12:32] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> i switched the drive to another USB port
L1747[19:12:35] <Ernos> That's my luck
L1748[19:12:42] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> it booted
L1749[19:14:05] <Ernos> ok, so now I got rid of the true that was printing
L1750[19:14:10] <Ernos> now I need to get rid of the extra space
L1751[19:14:51] <Skye> I should port the PsychOS userspace to miniOS NT
L1752[19:14:52] <Skye> for fun
L1753[19:14:54] <Skye> or
L1754[19:14:56] <Skye> just so it's usable
L1755[19:15:02] <Skye> and then I can work on otehr stuff
L1756[19:15:12] <Izaya> >should I do x
L1757[19:15:14] <Izaya> do you want to do x?
L1758[19:15:17] <Izaya> if so, do x
L1759[19:15:19] <Izaya> if not, don't do x
L1760[19:16:03] <Skye> I don't want to do anything
L1761[19:16:11] <Skye> so I won't do anything
L1762[19:16:31] <Izaya> alright
L1763[19:16:37] <Izaya> I give it 48 hours till you get bored
L1764[19:17:01] <Izaya> the best thought occurs when bored
L1765[19:17:37] <Skye> Izaya, I'm not bored
L1766[19:17:39] <Skye> I'm stressed
L1767[19:17:40] <Skye> like
L1768[19:17:42] <Skye> panic
L1769[19:17:43] <Skye> constantly
L1770[19:17:45] <Skye> I cannot focus
L1771[19:17:47] <Skye> I'm scared
L1772[19:18:07] <Izaya> so you're not doing nothing, you're stressing
L1773[19:18:25] <Izaya> (we can split this hair all the way down to "breathing" and "existing" if you'd like)
L1774[19:19:09] ⇨ Joins: m1 (~m1@gelandewagen.m1cr0man.com)
L1775[19:19:57] <m1> Wow, MineOS is so impressive :D
L1776[19:20:27] <Izaya> until you try to run it on anything but the beefiest T3 hardware :p
L1777[19:22:17] ⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@mue-88-130-63-172.dsl.tropolys.de)
L1778[19:23:28] ⇦ Quits: m1 (~m1@gelandewagen.m1cr0man.com) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)
L1779[19:28:27] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> http://tinyurl.com/y7cwan84
L1780[19:28:41] <ThePi​Guy24> nice
L1781[19:30:27] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> now
L1782[19:30:35] <Z0id​burg> Hey Izaya what would you think about some software to replace email that uses activitypub instead of SMTP/IMAP/POP/exchange, etc
L1783[19:30:45] <Izaya> so
L1784[19:30:52] <Izaya> you know how email is kind of a mess?
L1785[19:30:58] <Izaya> and by kind of I mean nothing quite compares?
L1786[19:31:00] <Z0id​burg> Yes
L1787[19:31:03] <Izaya> basically
L1788[19:31:06] <Izaya> activitypub is worse
L1789[19:31:11] <Izaya> fuck that all the way home
L1790[19:31:16] <Z0id​burg> Are you sure/
L1791[19:31:36] <Izaya> man if you can't even stop people reading mailboxes properly
L1792[19:31:43] <Izaya> the whole design of it is wonky as hell
L1793[19:31:53] <Izaya> just ask literally anyone that works with ActivityPub software
L1794[19:32:20] <Z0id​burg> so your solution is to make an alternative to activitypub?
L1795[19:32:25] <Izaya> If you want to replace email, replace it with XMPP. It's well designed and actually supports non-public information.
L1796[19:32:46] <Z0id​burg> xmpp is disgusting though
L1797[19:32:51] <Izaya> disagree
L1798[19:32:57] <Izaya> but we'll disregard that
L1799[19:32:58] <m1cr0man> XMPP is nice
L1800[19:33:10] <Z0id​burg> Every time I have to write software that interfaces XMPP its always a pita
L1801[19:33:13] <Z0id​burg> and XML is awful
L1802[19:33:21] <Izaya> consider:
L1803[19:33:35] <Izaya> ActivityPub manages to make JSON less pleasant than XML
L1804[19:34:14] <Sagh​etti> @AdorableCatgirl that is cursed
L1805[19:34:31] <m1cr0man> SMTP and IMAP are fine on their own, it's the decades old implementations and legacy buildup that makes mail hard
L1806[19:34:35] <Izaya> Like, I'm not huge on XML, but it works, and in an ideal world I never have to write or parse any directly anyway.
L1807[19:34:47] <Izaya> JSON-LD though... That thing scares me.
L1808[19:35:02] <Izaya> m1cr0man: it's not that the protocols are bad, it's that the 70 years of cruft make it obnoxious to use
L1809[19:35:06] <Izaya> and maintain
L1810[19:35:08] <Izaya> and set up
L1811[19:35:49] <m1cr0man> Having done all of this recently (migrating a 26 year old stack to something very modern), I agree.
L1812[19:36:04] <Izaya> also I'd suggest that sending should be part of the client<->server part rather than the client talking to the server<->server part
L1813[19:36:12] <m1cr0man> Honestly Postfix and Dovecot are not the hardest things to set up, but they are VERY difficult to secure.
L1814[19:36:24] <m1cr0man> Mailing lists + archives on the other hand..
L1815[19:36:44] <m1cr0man> why no one has written a good solution to that boggles my mind. I guess because if you need mass mailing lists, you just don't host your own mail
L1816[19:37:08] <Z0id​burg> I currently use sendmail and dovecot, though I wish the inetd imapd would work, I broke it somehow lol
L1817[19:37:28] <Z0id​burg> I've been using sendmail for yars and years now
L1818[19:38:04] <m1cr0man> gg. I wouldn't go near it with a 10ft pole
L1819[19:38:15] <m1cr0man> And I'm not saying postfix is much better, it's just the devil I know now
L1820[19:38:22] <Ernos> how do you use braille characters to make graphics?
L1821[19:39:01] <Z0id​burg> I would suggest not using sendmail unless you've been using it since it was the best choice around
L1822[19:39:03] <m1cr0man> I remember I wrote my own email protocol and client/server in computercraft back in the day :D that was fun
L1823[19:39:11] <Izaya> that reminds me
L1824[19:39:15] <Z0id​burg> postfix actually supports sendmail configs though
L1825[19:39:22] <Izaya> I need to make a proper MTA daemon for mmail
L1826[19:39:23] ⇦ Quits: Ernos (~freacknat@097-092-106-022.biz.spectrum.com) (Quit: *rocket noises*)
L1827[19:39:36] <Z0id​burg> You know Izaya, I really like msgpack
L1828[19:39:50] <Z0id​burg> it's pretty neat
L1829[19:40:00] <Z0id​burg> I used to use Sereal, and before that protobuf
L1830[19:41:51] <Z0id​burg> Though serialization is overly worrisome in Elixir
L1831[19:41:55] <Z0id​burg> and erlang
L1832[19:42:12] <Z0id​burg> mostly because it has datatypes that serialization specs do not support
L1833[19:43:28] ⇨ Joins: flappy (~flappy@88-113-149-197.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
L1834[19:45:58] <m1cr0man> I would love to do some erlang. It was the forefront of the product at my last company, and did some amazing things
L1835[19:49:15] <Vexatos> I always thought erlang was a meme only forced upon sad programmers by companies who don't know better
L1836[19:49:28] <Izaya> I feel it's somewhat divisive
L1837[19:49:34] <Izaya> like Haskell, or Forth, or Lisp
L1838[19:49:49] <m1cr0man> Vexatos: What's better if you need to route connections for millions of clients?
L1839[19:49:57] <Vexatos> well netflix uses java
L1840[19:50:03] * Izaya shudders
L1841[19:50:19] <Vexatos> haskell is fun until it errors
L1842[19:50:24] <m1cr0man> Vexatos: For the use case I saw, it was perfect, but personally I've not seen or had a single other use case for it (hence why I havent learned it)
L1843[19:50:31] <Vexatos> the error messages are harder to read than russian and I don't know any russian
L1844[19:50:47] <Izaya> me: I should write an IRC server in erlang/elixir
L1845[19:50:54] <Izaya> also me: 9 trillion other projects
L1846[19:50:58] <Vexatos> m1cr0man, I've only ever heard erlang in the context of bad corporate decisions
L1847[19:51:08] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> how is it cursed @Saghetti
L1848[19:51:21] <Vexatos> and elixir is kinda erlang but not a meme from what I have seen
L1849[19:51:29] <Izaya> Vexatos: https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=BXmOlCy0oBM&feature=youtu.be
L1850[19:51:42] <Vexatos> o
L1851[19:51:44] <Vexatos> I remember this
L1852[19:52:00] <m1cr0man> Vexatos: Hm, I don't think that was the sentiment at my last place. It was the one part of the product that was reliable.
L1853[19:52:03] <Sagh​etti> actually i take that back
L1854[19:52:10] <Sagh​etti> ext3 would be much worse
L1855[19:52:23] <Izaya> w2k on xfs
L1856[19:52:26] <Vexatos> m1cr0man, doesn't that just mean it was the one part of the product with competent programmers?
L1857[19:52:41] <m1cr0man> Vexatos: You couldn't be more correct XD
L1858[19:52:52] <m1cr0man> Vexatos: emphasis on _last_ company
L1859[19:53:03] <Vexatos> because the kinds of people who can learn erlang for a new project are the kind of people who maybe don't write the most horrible code
L1860[19:53:28] <m1cr0man> Yeah. For context, the backend microservices it was routing to were python and they SUCKED
L1861[19:53:46] <Vexatos> ah yes
L1862[19:53:50] <Vexatos> writing microservices in python
L1863[19:53:54] <Vexatos> that sounds like a great idea
L1864[19:53:58] <Izaya> microservices
L1865[19:54:02] <Izaya> sounds like an interesting idea
L1866[19:54:04] <Izaya> in practice
L1867[19:54:06] <Izaya> just
L1868[19:54:08] <Izaya> don't
L1869[19:56:50] <asie> elixir, huh
L1870[19:57:00] <asie> i'm torn between python/django, python/pyramid and elixir/phoenix for a new webapp project
L1871[19:57:26] <Sagh​etti> flask ftw
L1872[19:57:38] ⇦ Quits: Victor_sueca (~Victor_su@90.165.120.190) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)
L1873[19:57:42] <asie> i don't have time to re-invent the wheel
L1874[19:58:00] <Sagh​etti> flask is too simple?
L1875[19:58:07] <asie> for a CRUD-heavy website?
L1876[19:58:09] <asie> yes
L1877[19:58:11] <asie> probably.
L1878[19:58:17] <Sagh​etti> hmm ok
L1879[19:58:18] <asie> not that it's incapable of it, just that it would require a fair bit more boilerplate
L1880[19:58:22] <dequbed> asie: BEAM is bae. But unless Elixier heavily improves string handling you don't want to do any stringy thing in it.
L1881[19:58:27] <asie> i used flask for a project
L1882[19:58:32] <asie> was pretty cool
L1883[19:58:49] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> lapis
L1884[19:58:49] <asie> but i would definitely not use it for something of non-trivial size without some custom boilerplate libs... aka my own mini-framework n top
L1885[19:59:10] <asie> Lapis is cool but it's also rather niche
L1886[19:59:17] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> i mean
L1887[19:59:23] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> i used it to make a really shitty imageboard
L1888[19:59:41] <Adorabl​eCatgirl> but i don't ever stop to think if i should
L1889[19:59:55] <Izaya> counter-suggestion
L1890[19:59:59] <Izaya> http://www.1-9-9-1.com/
L1891[20:00:21] <asie> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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L1893[20:01:15] <CompanionCube> Izaya: counter-counter-suggestion: cobol on cogs
L1894[20:01:22] <dequbed> Izaya: What's the name of the FORTRAN web-toolkit again?
L1895[20:01:25] <Izaya> also a good option
L1896[20:01:49] <asie> why are there TWO web frameworks for COBOL?
L1897[20:02:01] <asie> one made by a Polish presidential candidate and the leader of a left-wing party
L1898[20:02:15] <dequbed> fortran.io that was it
L1899[20:02:18] <asie> and the other being a joke
L1900[20:02:21] <asie> the first one is https://github.com/azac/cobol-on-wheelchair
L1901[20:02:35] <asie> it's a real COBOL framework
L1902[20:02:38] <CompanionCube> wait, *that's* who made one?
L1903[20:02:39] <CompanionCube> srsly?
L1904[20:02:42] <asie> yes
L1905[20:02:44] <asie> Adrian Zandberg
L1906[20:02:56] <CompanionCube> 10/10
L1907[20:04:05] <asie> he largely quit his programming work to focus on politics
L1908[20:04:06] <asie> but the legacy persists
L1909[20:06:46] <CompanionCube> shame about PiS though. I suppose it could be worse, given what Orban went and did.
L1910[20:10:37] <Inari> It's the year 2030. For hygienic reasons, everyone in the service industry uses hand prosthetics, and each customer has their own, only used for them
L1911[20:10:59] <Forec​aster> hm... found a bit of a flaw in my atm program...
L1912[20:11:08] <Forec​aster> if one terminal requests the balance, all of them display it...
L1913[20:11:11] <Forec​aster> woops
L1914[20:11:20] <Inari> I love it
L1915[20:12:14] <Forec​aster> they're supposed to only react to the reply if it's for the player that requested it
L1916[20:12:32] <Forec​aster> I must have forgotten to make it reset the requesting player var when it resets
L1917[20:13:29] <Inari> Wouldn't it be nicer to use some unique message id instead?
L1918[20:14:35] <Forec​aster> the player is a unique message id :P
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L1920[20:18:42] <t20kdc> Not necessarily.
L1921[20:19:04] <Inari> @Forecaster unique per message, not per player :p
L1922[20:19:04] <t20kdc> What if they're using two terminals at once?
L1923[20:19:54] <Forec​aster> then they'll see their balance on one terminal, and then the other one
L1924[20:21:17] <Forec​aster> it doesn't need to be unique per message
L1925[20:21:20] <Forec​aster> that's overkill
L1926[20:23:04] <Amanda> Can someone explain Minecraft data packs to me? And how they're useful for servers, if at all?
L1927[20:23:21] <Forec​aster> data packs?
L1928[20:24:28] <Amanda> https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Data_pack
L1929[20:24:48] <Forec​aster> ah
L1930[20:25:13] <Forec​aster> I guess if you want to add recipes or similar things you have to do so on the server
L1931[20:25:18] <Forec​aster> or they wont work
L1932[20:25:31] <Forec​aster> as well as the client
L1933[20:26:11] <Amanda> That's the thing, I've been messing with it,and either they don't work on servers for that, or they need to be on both sides somehow. or maybe JEI just doesn't support recipies added by them?
L1934[20:27:48] <Forec​aster> I don't see why it wouldn't if the game loads the recipes properly at startup...
L1935[20:27:53] <Forec​aster> not sure, I've never used them
L1936[20:32:37] <Amanda> oh... my recipe was invalid, it seems
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L1938[20:32:42] <Inari> @Forecaster is that on some server btw?
L1939[20:32:50] <Forec​aster> what?
L1940[20:33:05] <Inari> the ATM program
L1941[20:33:15] <Forec​aster> oh, not yet but it will be
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L1943[20:33:29] <Inari> What server?
L1944[20:33:47] <Forec​aster> Railcraft server
L1945[20:34:01] <Inari> Ah
L1946[20:34:11] <Inari> Maybe I should check that out at some point. Though I've been told it's not that active
L1947[20:34:43] <Forec​aster> not active?!
L1948[20:34:50] <Forec​aster> it's dead Jim!
L1949[20:35:02] <Forec​aster> season 1 ended ages ago
L1950[20:35:04] <Inari> Shame
L1951[20:35:18] <Forec​aster> season 1 was just super-hard survival
L1952[20:35:26] <Forec​aster> season 2 will be very different :P
L1953[20:35:33] <Inari> So
L1954[20:35:35] <Inari> Whens sesaon 2
L1955[20:35:58] <Forec​aster> When the prep-work is complete and I can set the server up :>
L1956[20:37:36] <Forec​aster> it's been two weeks since I proposed the idea
L1957[20:37:50] <Forec​aster> hopefully only two more weeks or so before we can begin
L1958[20:38:00] <Forec​aster> I'll be making a video announcing the theme before then though
L1959[20:38:02] <Inari> :o Being on setup or begin on the season?
L1960[20:38:29] <Forec​aster> begin the season
L1961[20:38:40] <Inari> Thats fast
L1962[20:39:17] <Forec​aster> I'm only guessing though, I've finished most of the OC work now, but there's other prep work that needs to be done
L1963[20:46:20] <Forec​aster> also no more vacation starting tomorrow which might slow things down a little I just realized
L1964[20:47:10] <pay​onel> https://i.redd.it/s0gqadi20yx41.jpg
L1965[20:48:22] <Corded> * <Ocawes​ome101> sighs, shakes head
L1966[20:48:53] <Inari> Hmm meh, I want a really comfy switch game. But most games that are generally comfy aren't comfy enough
L1967[20:52:27] <t20kdc> "comfy"?
L1968[20:53:02] <Inari> Low-stakes, warm theme, cozy, not much action but also not boring
L1969[20:54:17] <Forec​aster> Convoy is on switch :P
L1970[20:55:01] <Inari> Not sure that qualifies
L1971[20:55:55] <Inari> Would probably have to be something without combat. Though it's not exclusive to that
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L1973[20:59:47] <Inari> More something like Starfew or Harvest Moon, but even more relaxed
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L1982[21:07:16] <B​ob> citadelcore vibing
L1983[21:13:12] ⇦ Quits: citadelcore (~TERMINUS@2a05:d01c:a7c:6116:a0dd:5884:d6f3:27d7) (Quit: Wait, what?)
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L1987[21:16:01] <Forec​aster> http://tinyurl.com/y7loqr2l
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L1990[21:19:09] <Forec​aster> "Quit: Wait, what?"
L1991[21:19:12] <Forec​aster> okay...
L1992[21:19:59] <citadelcore> tfw you restart your quassel core after a decade and forget that it auto connects
L1993[21:22:01] <Ocawes​ome101> quassel core?
L1994[21:22:10] <Amanda> Well, still doesn't show up in JEI, but it works: https://nc.ddna.co/s/CN7ckQnHFk394Py
L1995[21:23:38] <Lizzy> %tonk
L1996[21:23:39] <MichiBot> Dad-Sizzle! Li​zzy! You beat Squi​dDev's previous record of 4 hours, 19 minutes and 59 seconds (By 21 minutes and 37 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L1997[21:23:40] <MichiBot> Lizzy's new record is 4 hours, 41 minutes and 36 seconds! Lizzy also gained 0.0018 (0.00036 x 5) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #3. Need 0.11008 more points to pass Forec​aster!
L1998[21:26:05] <Forec​aster> hm
L1999[21:26:27] <Forec​aster> I wonder how difficult it'd be to add an IC2 powersink and a fluid sink/producer to my item mod
L2000[21:26:38] <Forec​aster> and maybe even integrate them with OC
L2001[21:30:36] ⇨ Joins: S|h|a|w|n (~shawn156@c-76-25-73-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
L2002[21:41:56] <CompanionCube> citadelcore: 'decade' yeah right :p
L2003[21:55:11] <ThePi​Guy24> citadel be like
L2004[21:56:40] <Sk​ye> @Forecaster is that a money system in OC?
L2005[22:15:46] <Sagh​etti> fun fact: blue is a lie
L2006[22:15:51] <Sagh​etti> it doesn't exist
L2007[22:15:52] <Sagh​etti> please help
L2008[22:16:13] <Sagh​etti> aaaand eclipse crashed
L2009[22:17:43] <B​ob> eclipse lulll
L2010[22:18:56] <Sagh​etti> bruh
L2011[22:22:35] <Forec​aster> @Skye it's a system that deals with money in a way yes
L2012[22:23:13] <Forec​aster> Eclipse was a lie this whole time
L2013[22:24:02] <Sagh​etti> it's either that or a weird sketchy IDE
L2014[22:24:11] <Sagh​etti> that runs terribly
L2015[22:25:33] <Sagh​etti> http://tinyurl.com/ydykbby7
L2016[22:25:34] <Sagh​etti> help
L2017[22:25:36] <Sagh​etti> what is this
L2018[22:25:53] <Klea​dron> BlockBerry lol
L2019[22:26:06] <Sagh​etti> i thought this was just ARGB color encoding
L2020[22:26:21] <Ar​iri> its a snek
L2021[22:26:33] <Sagh​etti> the thing is literally called graphicsBuffer.setARGB
L2022[22:26:38] <Sagh​etti> why is it not ARGB
L2023[22:26:56] <Sagh​etti> this should show shades of blue
L2024[22:27:03] <Sagh​etti> 9/10 times it's just a black screen
L2025[22:27:11] <Sagh​etti> any of you guys good at recognizing color encodings?
L2026[22:27:12] <Forec​aster> @Skye press for season 2 of railcraft server, stay tuned
L2027[22:27:21] <Forec​aster> @Skye it's for season 2 of railcraft server, stay tuned [Edited]
L2028[22:27:36] <Sagh​etti> this may be some weird fucked up RGB565 encoding
L2029[22:27:44] <Sagh​etti> and the API calls have been lying to me this entire time
L2030[22:27:51] <Sagh​etti> http://tinyurl.com/ybbfdr8b
L2031[22:27:55] <Sagh​etti> this is the closest i've gotten to sanity
L2032[22:28:19] <Sagh​etti> i changed around all of the bit shifts, and nothing works
L2033[22:29:24] <Sagh​etti> does my blackberry have deuteranopia?
L2034[22:29:57] <Sagh​etti> also railcraft is awesome ngl
L2035[22:30:05] <Sagh​etti> so are ticketing systems and stuff
L2036[22:34:45] <Forec​aster> %sip
L2037[22:34:46] <MichiBot> You drink a liquid crimson potion (New!). Forec​aster now has a mullet for 8 moons.
L2038[22:39:41] <Sagh​etti> i guess it's time that i faced my fear
L2039[22:39:48] <Sagh​etti> converting true color to rgb565
L2040[22:39:52] <Ocawes​ome101> oh joy :D
L2041[22:40:03] <Sagh​etti> this is going to be painful
L2042[22:49:04] <Klea​dron> have fun
L2043[22:50:15] <Sagh​etti> thanks i guess
L2044[22:50:50] <Sagh​etti> found a cool article to help me
L2045[22:50:51] <Sagh​etti> http://www.barth-dev.de/about-rgb565-and-how-to-convert-into-it/
L2046[22:51:21] <ThePi​Guy24> what about just using 565 from the start?
L2047[22:52:14] <Sagh​etti> the scary graphics rendering code does it in 24 bit color
L2048[22:52:22] <Sagh​etti> and i don't want to touch it or even begin to modify it
L2049[22:53:56] <ThePi​Guy24> cheat and store the textures in a way that returns them to their original colour when converted to rgb 565 :p
L2050[22:54:21] <Sagh​etti> this thing stores textures somewhere
L2051[22:54:23] <Sagh​etti> not even in a file
L2052[22:54:31] <Sagh​etti> i think it might be hard-coded
L2053[22:54:53] <Sagh​etti> somewhere... i can't find it
L2054[22:55:04] <ThePi​Guy24> do you have the source or are you working with a decompiled version?
L2055[22:55:28] <Sagh​etti> decompiled kind of minified stuff
L2056[22:55:39] <Sagh​etti> this is minecraft 4k, the thing made for a coding contest
L2057[22:56:02] <ThePi​Guy24> yes i am aware
L2058[22:56:12] <Sagh​etti> i've decompiled it and reverse engineered some stuff
L2059[22:56:18] <Sagh​etti> 3d graphics is scary though
L2060[22:56:34] <Sagh​etti> not sure if notch ever released the non-minified version
L2061[22:56:50] ⇨ Joins: InfinityGosha (webchat@188.252.197.180)
L2062[23:01:11] <InfinityGosha> Hello, I am wondering how would I get a robot to update changes I made to lua file outside of minecraft (Notepad++). Restarting the robot does not help. If anyone can help, I would apriciate it, thank you.
L2063[23:01:25] <Sagh​etti> disable file caching
L2064[23:01:29] <Sagh​etti> forgot what it was called
L2065[23:01:32] <Sagh​etti> it's in the config
L2066[23:01:46] <Sagh​etti> file buffering or smth
L2067[23:01:53] <Kristo​pher38> we should make a pin for it or something
L2068[23:01:57] <Kristo​pher38> it's called bufferChanges
L2069[23:02:17] <Sagh​etti> oh ok
L2070[23:02:18] <Kristo​pher38> in opencomputers.cfg, should be somewhere in your .minecraft dir
L2071[23:02:37] <Ocawes​ome101> .minecraft/config/opencomputers/settings.cfg iirc
L2072[23:02:38] <t20kdc> Saghetti: it's meant to be 4k in size, so it's not entirely impossible that textures are procedurally generated as a size reduction
L2073[23:02:55] <Sagh​etti> i mean that seems possible
L2074[23:03:00] <Sagh​etti> i could poke at it some more
L2075[23:03:15] <Sagh​etti> somehow the minecraft wiki has a texture dump of them
L2076[23:03:41] <InfinityGosha> bufferChanges=true
L2077[23:03:46] <InfinityGosha> is this the line?
L2078[23:03:51] <Sagh​etti> change that to false
L2079[23:03:51] <Ocawes​ome101> yep
L2080[23:03:52] <Sagh​etti> yep
L2081[23:04:01] <InfinityGosha> Nice, thank you very much!
L2082[23:04:23] <t20kdc> Saghetti: Yes, but if you look at the textures, they're very... suspiciously different, wouldn't you say?
L2083[23:04:46] <Sagh​etti> yeah...
L2084[23:05:25] <Sagh​etti> the only thing that i can see is the "world generation code"
L2085[23:05:32] <Sagh​etti> with a set seed
L2086[23:05:38] <Sagh​etti> i could try messing around with that
L2087[23:06:54] <t20kdc> Saghetti: also, note that the side and top textures for stone are different. that doesn't make sense for size reduction if they're normal textures.
L2088[23:13:17] <t20kdc> Saghetti: The first thing I notice is that the int array of 262144 elements is almost certainly the world. That's over in 3 (decompiled) lines.
L2089[23:15:13] <t20kdc> Saghetti: The second thing I notice is that 12288-sized array, which seems an odd size. Dividing it by 256 gives 48, and there's 16 internal block types and 3 faces per block type, so...
L2090[23:15:58] <Sagh​etti> yeah i already assumed that the 262144 one is the world
L2091[23:16:32] <Sagh​etti> and that other one must be the textures then
L2092[23:17:27] <Sagh​etti> thank you very much
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