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L16[02:00:03] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV] Pushing snapshot_20170706 mappings to Forge Maven.
L17[02:00:07] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV] Maven upload successful for mcp_snapshot-20170706-1.12.zip (mappings = "snapshot_20170706" in build.gradle).
L18[02:00:17] <MCPBot_Reborn> Semi-live (every 10 min), Snapshot (daily ~3:00 EST), and Stable (committed) MCPBot mapping exports can be found here: http://export.mcpbot.bspk.rs/
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L27[03:03:38] <ollieread> :)
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L33[04:03:48] * TechnicianLP really could use the datapack system ...
L34[04:09:12] <gigaherz|work> wait for 1.13 ;P
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L38[04:21:07] <TechnicianLP> well ... maybe
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L47[04:50:19] <capitalthree> when my mod simulates a right click on a chest, it opens and stays open permanently (even if I open and close it myself)
L48[04:50:24] <capitalthree> does anybody know what's going on?
L49[04:52:37] <gigaherz|work> you mess up the open counter
L50[04:53:48] <capitalthree> is it possible to test whether a block has an item-specific interaction with an itemstack, but without triggering any interactions that could be done with an empty hand?
L51[04:54:38] <gigaherz|work> no idea what you mean
L52[04:55:04] <gigaherz|work> but I think the answer is going to be "no" ;P
L53[04:55:53] *** PaleOff is now known as PaleoCrafter
L54[04:56:25] <TechnicianLP> test wheter a block has a rightclick action specific to the itemstack used? sounds very specific ... hat are you trying to achieve? (as it probably wont be possible without inspecting bytecode)
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L56[04:58:08] <capitalthree> it's kind of autonomous-activator-like functionality but in a different context
L57[04:58:44] <capitalthree> sometimes there are specific things that do specific things to specific blocks when right clicking, like an ender eye on end portal blocks
L58[04:59:01] <capitalthree> but I don't want to trigger behaviors that would happen on right click regardless of what you're holding
L59[04:59:56] <capitalthree> nevermind I think I'm overthinking this
L60[05:00:03] <capitalthree> I'm just going to simulate sneaking and call it a day >_>
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L80[06:38:01] <gigaherz|work> 13:37, just saying.
L81[06:38:32] <Hubry> I see this with a 13:38 timestamp :P
L82[06:39:00] <gigaherz|work> yeah I failed
L83[06:39:01] <gigaherz|work> [13:38] (gigaherz|work): 13:37, just saying.
L84[06:39:09] <gigaherz|work> the clock changed while I was correcting a typo
L85[06:39:12] <gigaherz|work> ;_;
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L87[06:40:34] <gigaherz|work> https://twitter.com/Marc_IRL/status/882901501009702912
L88[06:40:44] <gigaherz|work> apparently mojang has job openings
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L90[06:44:39] *** amadornes[OFF] is now known as amadornes
L91[06:46:20] <immibis> who'd want to work for mojang on the software microsoft is trying to kill off?
L92[06:47:00] <capitalthree> I do like the idea of money, but nobody would pay me to make the mods I make xD
L93[06:47:13] <capitalthree> I like my creative freedom (to be weird)
L94[06:47:31] <PaleoCrafter> immibis, you'd be working on the C++ version, which M$ is happy to support :P
L95[06:47:31] <capitalthree> I don't think jvm minecraft is going anywhere
L96[06:47:56] <capitalthree> microsoft will turn the other one into a giant cash cow but people who love mods will flock back to the jvm
L97[06:47:56] <immibis> capitalthree: it will go wherever microsoft says it goes and microsoft would be putting their money into the non-java ones
L98[06:48:13] <immibis> capitalthree: at best it will remain floating around but won't ever be developed any more
L99[06:48:32] <capitalthree> immibis: they've already developed it for an impressively long time
L100[06:48:35] <immibis> at worst they stop distributing it then go after anyone who does for piracy
L101[06:48:45] <PaleoCrafter> That's actually good for us, though, considering that Forge will have much more room for optimisation
L102[06:48:54] <PaleoCrafter> not the distribution part, mind you xD
L103[06:48:55] <immibis> PaleoCrafter: HA. HA
L104[06:48:59] <capitalthree> yeah the mod community will stabilize
L105[06:49:24] <capitalthree> 2 years after the mc version freeze, we'll see total conversions and modpacks like nothing the world has ever seen\
L106[06:49:37] <immibis> i've been through 3 different "stabilizations" when mojang was exceptionally slow to release an update
L107[06:49:56] <capitalthree> yeah it sucks when they just slow down but don't stop :P
L108[06:50:02] <immibis> actually maybe it does work if they stop completely
L109[06:50:08] <immibis> however then the churn just shifts onto forge
L110[06:50:23] <immibis> also i was laughing at the idea of forge ever being optimized. how much memory does a vanilla+forge installation take now?
L111[06:51:04] <PaleoCrafter> Unless Vanilla has done it until then, we'll actually be able to offload stuff onto the GPU when Mojang ever stops :P
L112[06:52:53] <gigaherz|work> if ms "kills" java minecraft
L113[06:53:00] <gigaherz|work> we'll just write mods to repalce everything vanilla does
L114[06:53:02] <capitalthree> I remember the days of mcpc+ for 1.7.10
L115[06:53:09] <gigaherz|work> and end up runnign forge without a minecraft ;P
L116[06:53:09] <capitalthree> they had seemingly made a lot of progress
L117[06:53:55] <capitalthree> gigaherz|work: that's not how ip law works :P
L118[06:54:02] <gigaherz|work> what?
L119[06:54:12] <gigaherz|work> if mojang stops supporting minecraft
L120[06:54:18] <gigaherz|work> we'll just stop using minecraft
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L122[06:54:23] <gigaherz|work> is all I'm saying
L123[06:54:23] <immibis> capitalthree: which IP law?
L124[06:54:23] <gigaherz|work> ;P
L125[06:54:41] <immibis> capitalthree: you can copy ideas verbatim, just not code or textures, and trademarks stop you using the name "minecraft"
L126[06:54:59] <gigaherz|work> if copying ideas was illegal
L127[06:55:09] <gigaherz|work> all those mine* and *craft games on phones would be sued
L128[06:55:36] <PaleoCrafter> Hm... that'd actually force people to come up with creative names
L129[06:55:40] * PaleoCrafter looks at his own name
L130[06:55:41] <PaleoCrafter> welp
L131[06:57:25] <PaleoCrafter> who knows, maybe the official API will turn out great and much more permissive than we all think
L132[06:57:25] <PaleoCrafter> lol
L133[06:58:48] <capitalthree> immibis: forge was developed entirely around minecraft. there would be no way now to rewrite the minecraft parts to prevent a very easy copyright claim
L134[06:59:20] <capitalthree> we could rewrite the whole thing and implement the forge api, but a huge amount of forge code that's intertwined with the minecraft engine would have to be tossed at least
L135[06:59:36] <immibis> capitalthree: i don't think anyone meant to keep the API exactly the same
L136[06:59:43] <capitalthree> yeah
L137[06:59:54] <capitalthree> definitely it wouldn't allow existing mods to work because they're all written around minecraft internals
L138[07:00:12] <capitalthree> if you just mean "a new block game" then for sure, I'd like to see an open source take on this
L139[07:00:48] <PaleoCrafter> the API already changes a lot between individual *official* versions of the game, expecting anything to work on a complete rewrite is a pipedream anyways
L140[07:00:49] <capitalthree> so fair, anyways maybe I misunderstood
L141[07:01:25] <gigaherz|work> capitalthree: uhm, we don't even use official names
L142[07:01:39] <gigaherz|work> all the code references to minecraft classes, are actually mcp names made up by the community
L143[07:02:12] <capitalthree> yeah but we don't use a real API, we directly interact with internals. that means, to keep compatibility, we'd have to variable-for-variable clone those internals, which would be a copyright violation if that is then used outside of minecraft
L144[07:02:21] <immibis> capitalthree: no, we'd have to update those mods
L145[07:02:24] <capitalthree> right
L146[07:02:29] <gigaherz|work> well
L147[07:02:31] <capitalthree> that's what we'd have to do in reality
L148[07:02:32] <immibis> manually or otherwise
L149[07:02:36] <gigaherz|work> we have to rebuild mods on major version updates
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L151[07:02:47] <immibis> or write a shim layer that is nothing like minecraft's internals except for matching the names
L152[07:02:49] <gigaherz|work> so it would make perfect sense to rebuild mods to make them compatible with "forge without minecraft"
L153[07:03:04] <capitalthree> what we're talking about would be much more major than any minecraft version update
L154[07:03:20] <gigaherz|work> less an less with every version
L155[07:03:24] <gigaherz|work> the more things we move to json
L156[07:03:37] <gigaherz|work> the less things will be in the way when that happens
L157[07:03:39] <capitalthree> anyways I honestly don't think they'll kill it, what's their incentive to do that? it's still a product they make nonzero money on and it doesn't cost them much
L158[07:04:02] <capitalthree> I'm the biggest microsoft hater around, but in this case I just don't see it
L159[07:04:02] <gigaherz|work> well, dinnerbone said the other day that they do not have any plans to stop developing the java version
L160[07:04:06] <capitalthree> I can't see a motive
L161[07:04:19] <capitalthree> it can't be that expensive to keep maintaining it given the sales even in 2017
L162[07:04:22] <immibis> gigaherz|work: true. microsoft wants everything json so they can embrace/extend it, but it also makes it easier for other players to
L163[07:04:41] <immibis> capitalthree: the incentive is reducing dilution and confusion
L164[07:05:00] <immibis> the other day i met someone who played minecraft and thought it was meh. that's because they played story mode and they thought that's what minecraft was
L165[07:05:17] <capitalthree> oh gawd
L166[07:05:26] <immibis> imagine if there's two different versions
L167[07:05:53] <capitalthree> yeah the fact that it's called "mode" should trigger consumer protection issues :P why is there no expectation of any amount of accuracy when companies communicate to users about the software they're buying?
L168[07:06:03] <capitalthree> this corporatist world we live in...
L169[07:06:11] <immibis> alice: "hey bob let's play minecraft [microsoft edition] together" bob: "ok cool *starts minecraft [java edition], tries to connect* *server not found* hey wait wtf?" bob to his friends: "hey guys minecraft multiplayer is real flaky"
L170[07:06:19] <gigaherz|work> uhm
L171[07:06:37] <gigaherz|work> "story mode" was chosen probably because mc already has "adventure mode" and "creative mode" and "survival mode"
L172[07:06:46] <immibis> gigaherz|work: yes and story mode is nothing like any of those
L173[07:06:50] <immibis> it's an entirely separate game
L174[07:06:53] <gigaherz|work> yup
L175[07:06:55] <immibis> which is misleading
L176[07:07:18] <PaleoCrafter> I think it'll get even worse when people start talking about Minecraft and some actually mean the books xD
L177[07:07:27] <gigaherz|work> there's books?
L178[07:07:30] <PaleoCrafter> yep
L179[07:07:46] <immibis> it's like when people complain about their email not working and you come over to look and they're at the windows login screen saying their password has expired. EXCEPT IT'S THE VENDOR DOING IT
L180[07:07:56] <capitalthree> immibis: it's going to be hard to kill though because there will always be users seeing youtube videos of crazy mods and flocking to the java version :P
L181[07:08:02] <immibis> or when dell starts labelling monitors "computers"
L182[07:08:13] <immibis> capitalthree: hard to kill 100%, sure
L183[07:08:39] <PaleoCrafter> damn, can't find the books right now
L184[07:09:06] <PaleoCrafter> apparently there's comics as well, though
L185[07:09:11] <capitalthree> it really is the bait-and-switch of the century, though, huh. a game achieved name recognition like no other game ever, so microsoft is trying to hide it and sell a different game using that name
L186[07:09:13] <PaleoCrafter> https://www.amazon.com/Amazing-Minecraft-Comics-Secret-Greatest-ebook/dp/B071FYT7HD/ref=pd_sim_351_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6FFWYV7B3B72FMTE52GS
L187[07:09:15] <capitalthree> A+
L188[07:10:05] <gigaherz|work> oh
L189[07:10:07] <gigaherz|work> it's not even official
L190[07:10:15] <PaleoCrafter> there are official books
L191[07:10:20] <PaleoCrafter> I can't remember the god damn name though
L192[07:10:21] <immibis> capitalthree: yes, one with future microtransactions etc
L193[07:10:35] <capitalthree> it has microtransactions already, no?
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L195[07:10:54] <capitalthree> hmmm *ponders minecraft microtransactions mod using diamonds*
L196[07:11:16] <immibis> and they need to drum up interest first with the free windows 10 thing and stuff
L197[07:11:19] <gigaherz|work> mc has had microtransactons for a while
L198[07:11:20] <capitalthree> I could call the mod Empty Yo Minecraft Pocket
L199[07:11:21] <capitalthree> get it?
L200[07:11:23] <immibis> as much as possible
L201[07:11:26] <gigaherz|work> on console and mcpe
L202[07:11:29] <gigaherz|work> you can buy skin packs and such
L203[07:11:30] <immibis> gigaherz|work: well then exactly
L204[07:11:56] <PaleoCrafter> https://minecraft.net/en-us/marketplace/
L205[07:12:59] <capitalthree> hm I should name it Minecraft Marketplace Experience
L206[07:13:07] <capitalthree> and style it just like the minecraft marketplace
L207[07:13:24] <capitalthree> maybe I can have it fetch actual texture packs and stuff
L208[07:13:36] <PaleoCrafter> https://www.amazon.com/Minecraft-Island-Novel-Max-Brooks/dp/0399181776 ah, found it
L209[07:13:36] <TechnicianLP> wouldnt it actually be possible for mojnag to make microtransactions availiable on the java-version? - make a website for it and offer the downloads ...
L210[07:13:42] <capitalthree> how great would it be to have a mod that replaces the texture pack switcher with a marketplace that charges you diamonds :D
L211[07:13:48] <PaleoCrafter> an actual, official Minecraft novel
L212[07:13:54] <immibis> TechnicianLP: probably yes but then it wouldn't be well integrated with windows store
L213[07:14:01] <immibis> because it's not a windows store app
L214[07:14:09] <capitalthree> TechnicianLP: well it would be "possible" but the game already lets you use any texture pack or skin you want
L215[07:14:21] <capitalthree> it would be tough for them to walk back existing features and then charge for them on a retail game
L216[07:16:09] <TechnicianLP> i wasn't talking about removing the feature ... but why not offer the resourcepacks/maps for jvm users as well? (hard part would be to download them into the resourcepack/saves-folder though ...)
L217[07:16:10] <PaleoCrafter> heh, ghz|afk, same thought at Dinnerbone's tweet :P
L218[07:16:18] <gigaherz|work> XD
L219[07:16:27] <PaleoCrafter> also, I find you way too often in the replies to random tweets >.>
L220[07:16:40] <gigaherz|work> XD
L221[07:16:40] <capitalthree> TechnicianLP: probably because they can't confidently DRM them in the most modded game ever :P
L222[07:16:45] <capitalthree> but yeah they *could*
L223[07:16:58] <gigaherz|work> most of the people I follow are related to minecraft one way or another
L224[07:17:01] <capitalthree> I just don't think anyone would buy them because we are already used to having rich piles of that sort of content for free
L225[07:17:12] <immibis> capitalthree: new players aren't
L226[07:17:26] <TechnicianLP> you cant drm them on any console ... homebrew is strong these days ...
L227[07:17:57] <immibis> now i'm actually going to bed
L228[07:18:07] <capitalthree> TechnicianLP: the bar is a lot lower to download a ripped zip of a texture pack for minecraft java, vs doing whatever it takes to jailbreak your console and mess with the microsoft minecraft :P
L229[07:18:11] <capitalthree> sleep well immibis!
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L232[07:21:38] <TechnicianLP> i think both cases are about equally unlikely ... (i mean if someone really wants free stuff they will do a lot of things ...) but i think the wast majority of players wouldn't mind paying the authors of the content they really like ... (if the prices are appropriate)
L233[07:23:00] <capitalthree> yeah but the trick is it would require a cultural change
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L235[07:23:21] <capitalthree> because unless things change, people are already producing far higher quality content for free than what they're putting out on their silly marketplace for pay
L236[07:24:00] <capitalthree> microsoft needs to either convince the community to stop making great content for free, or at least guide the community towards being fragmented and unaware enough that users don't know about the free content
L237[07:24:45] <TechnicianLP> thats something i can agree with - most good content is availible for free atm ... (imagine paying for mods on curse xD)
L238[07:25:06] <capitalthree> personally I make only open source mods and that's the way I want to see the community go
L239[07:25:21] <gigaherz|work> OOOOH
L240[07:25:25] <capitalthree> we're modding a game and this should just be a social thing. if people want money, it's really a better idea to make an original game most likely
L241[07:25:29] <gigaherz|work> byosgr was a imgur image code
L242[07:25:34] <gigaherz|work> biyosgr*
L243[07:25:35] <PaleoCrafter> ah
L244[07:25:39] <gigaherz|work> https://imgur.com/biyOSGR
L245[07:25:46] <PaleoCrafter> but I've seen that picture before, I think Oo
L246[07:25:49] <TechnicianLP> ghz: ?
L247[07:26:16] <PaleoCrafter> and is that supposed to be a !=? xD
L248[07:26:24] <gigaherz|work> TechnicianLP: dinnerbone tweets
L249[07:26:34] <gigaherz|work> https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/882935310266617857
L250[07:26:46] <gigaherz|work> someone realized what those accents pointed at
L251[07:26:47] <gigaherz|work> https://twitter.com/simsor/status/882936407244800001
L252[07:27:05] <gigaherz|work> https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/882937130900750336
L253[07:27:45] <gigaherz|work> PaleoCrafter: I think it's intended to be nbt=<expression>
L254[07:27:54] <gigaherz|work> where the expression is "!{...}"
L255[07:28:12] <gigaherz|work> meaning "does not contain", I suppose
L256[07:28:17] <PaleoCrafter> hm... I guess
L257[07:28:36] <PaleoCrafter> we need a proper NBT querying lang
L258[07:28:43] <gigaherz|work> HQL
L259[07:28:50] <gigaherz|work> (hibernate query language)
L260[07:29:26] <PaleoCrafter> I'd have thought of something like XPath
L261[07:29:27] <fry> god no, shouldn't be NBT
L262[07:30:57] <gigaherz|work> or plain old sql... @sql[SELECT e FROM entities WHERE ... ]
L263[07:31:11] <PaleoCrafter> god no
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L265[07:32:47] <gigaherz|work> path-style queries would be nice though ... @e[nbt("A/B/C")==3]
L266[07:33:04] <PaleoCrafter> yep
L267[07:34:03] <fry> what's 3? is it int, or is it byte, or is it string?
L268[07:35:03] <gigaherz|work> whatever needs to be
L269[07:35:04] <gigaherz|work> ;P
L270[07:35:18] <fry> so, implicit conversions
L271[07:35:20] <gigaherz|work> if both are numeric, it's compared as numbers, else as strings
L272[07:35:25] <capitalthree> more dynamism!
L273[07:35:28] <gigaherz|work> I would convert implicitly, yes
L274[07:35:32] <capitalthree> let's make minecraft mods in groovy!
L275[07:35:35] * capitalthree ducks
L276[07:35:36] <fry> cause that worked out so well in the past
L277[07:35:47] <capitalthree> wait has someone tried that?
L278[07:35:51] <gigaherz|work> this is a commandblock query, not mod logic ;p
L279[07:36:01] <fry> there's no difference
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L282[07:41:21] <gigaherz|work> fry: okay then, ==3 -> compares only the value regardless of type, 3b or "3" would force a specific type
L283[07:42:43] <capitalthree> so when we rewrite forge post-minecraft, how do I convince everyone to switch to kotlin?
L284[07:42:50] <fry> what if the type is incorrect? does it always fail, or does it throw an error?
L285[07:43:06] <capitalthree> fry: it guesses based on an enormous list of javascritesque heuristics :D
L286[07:43:43] <fry> there's hardly any reason for anyone to use kotlin
L287[07:43:54] <capitalthree> D: what about the fact that it's a great language?
L288[07:44:01] <fry> it's really not
L289[07:44:13] <fry> it's a greatly marketed language
L290[07:44:52] <capitalthree> I've been using it pretty heavily, I'm not just going off marketing
L291[07:44:56] <capitalthree> I'd love to hear what you mean by that
L292[07:45:02] <Ivorius> If they work out the kinks it might be more usable than java
L293[07:45:09] <Ivorius> Which is a plus :P
L294[07:45:19] <capitalthree> I already find it way more usable than java xD
L295[07:45:22] <fry> how did you learn about it? why did you start using it?
L296[07:46:31] <gigaherz|work> it uses "fun" as a keyword for declaring functions
L297[07:46:34] <capitalthree> I learned about it on jetbrains' site when I went to download their IDE. I started using it because they already make my favorite static analysis tooling for java, and a lot of what kotlin offered just seemed like more concise equivalents to the annotation processing they already offer.
L298[07:46:36] <gigaherz|work> that makes it a joke so far as i'm concerned
L299[07:46:51] <capitalthree> and a lot of the other stuff kotlin offered resembled scala
L300[07:47:01] <capitalthree> which I have industry experience with
L301[07:47:30] <capitalthree> so I found it not only very easy to learn kotlin, but also very easy to do most of the things I'd like to do in scala, in kotlin
L302[07:47:34] <fry> and you prefer kotlin to scala? :P
L303[07:47:47] <Akkarin> oh god he said it. Here come the scala fanatics x.x
L304[07:47:50] <capitalthree> I wouldn't say that, but when I'm working within a java codebase, yeah, it's a better fit
L305[07:48:12] <capitalthree> scala has rough edges when interfacing with java code
L306[07:48:18] <capitalthree> kotlin is the opposite, that's a primary design goal for it
L307[07:48:27] <capitalthree> I'd rather call java code from kotlin than call java code from java
L308[07:48:59] <fry> do you have any particular examples of those rough edges? :P
L309[07:49:01] <capitalthree> so the 2 minecraft mods I maintain... one is in scala, and one is in kotlin, because I wanted to try stuff out basically
L310[07:49:13] <capitalthree> fry: yeah well the biggest one is null
L311[07:49:35] <capitalthree> scala convention and scala's library assumes no nulls, so if calling java code that might have nulls, you have to be very aware
L312[07:49:43] <gigaherz|work> I put kotlin on the same box as D -- nice idea but eh, pass.
L313[07:49:59] <capitalthree> and then when communicating back to java code, be able to generate nulls even though it's nonstandard for your language
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L315[07:50:19] <capitalthree> I dunno much about D but do you have a reason for passing? besides "fun"?
L316[07:50:24] <capitalthree> you like to cite that but it's pretty childish
L317[07:51:02] * fry personally never had any issues with null support in scala
L318[07:51:11] <capitalthree> fry: kotlin, on the other hand, embraces null by just working nullable into the type system but letting it work the same at the jvm, so java code has no problem with kotlin code (it just turns into nullability annotations)
L319[07:51:19] <capitalthree> and kotlin code calling java code can use its nullability annotations if it has them
L320[07:51:23] <fry> and nullness is pretty much the only unique feature that kotlin has
L321[07:51:43] <capitalthree> fry: it's not that scala doesn't *support* null. it's that scala doesn't encourage you to use it, and kotlin handles using null very smoothly
L322[07:52:00] <fry> and, nullability annotations break down fairly fast if you try to use them for complex code :P
L323[07:52:00] <capitalthree> kotlin provides much of the same functionality on nullable types that scala provides for Option
L324[07:52:15] <capitalthree> yeah which is why kotlin is better than just juryrigging annotations into java
L325[07:52:39] <capitalthree> but annotations are better than no annotations, and in particular, other people's annotations help me :P
L326[07:52:45] <capitalthree> since they're writing in java anyways
L327[07:52:53] <gigaherz|work> I very much prefer C#'s approach on nullability
L328[07:53:01] <capitalthree> kotlin has a lot of other features over java
L329[07:53:02] <gigaherz|work> non-nullable types can be made nullable by adding "?" at the end
L330[07:53:09] <capitalthree> as far as compared to scala, maybe not much
L331[07:53:11] <gigaherz|work> and nullable types can be made non-nullable by adding "!" at the end
L332[07:53:22] <capitalthree> gigaherz|work: yep that's how kotlin does it
L333[07:53:39] * capitalthree watches gigaherz|work contort that into somehow being a reason to hate kotlin anyways
L334[07:53:43] <gigaherz|work> the downside is that java's annotation are backward compatible with the same libraries that didn't have the annotations
L335[07:53:48] <Ivorius> And swift :P
L336[07:53:52] <MWisBest> does Kotlin have pointers? :>
L337[07:53:59] <capitalthree> it's still a jvm language :P
L338[07:54:19] <gigaherz|work> kotlin does have some good things
L339[07:54:21] <MWisBest> i'm kidding
L340[07:54:21] <fry> thing is, kotling took the least amount of features possible over java, and didn't took anything truly game-changing
L341[07:54:21] <capitalthree> kotlin really is very close to java and that's a strength
L342[07:54:32] <gigaherz|work> the stuff that kills it for me is the "var: Type" ordering, and "fun"
L343[07:54:34] <capitalthree> fry: type inferrence alone would make me switch
L344[07:54:34] <gigaherz|work> specially "fun"
L345[07:54:47] <capitalthree> gigaherz|work: that semantic makes sense when type ascriptions are optional in many cases
L346[07:54:55] <capitalthree> and yeah fun is dumb, but grow the fuck up, are you really going to keep bringing that up?
L347[07:55:00] <capitalthree> it just shows you have no real reasons >_>
L348[07:55:08] <gigaherz|work> C# just does
L349[07:55:11] <gigaherz|work> var t = expr;
L350[07:55:13] <gigaherz|work> for inferred
L351[07:55:18] <fry> my point is, switching to scala is better in the long run, at least imho
L352[07:55:20] <gigaherz|work> int t = expr; for explicit
L353[07:55:21] <capitalthree> gigaherz|work: so does kotlin
L354[07:55:28] <capitalthree> ok I see, and how do you distinguish var and val?
L355[07:55:35] <gigaherz|work> there's no "val" in C#
L356[07:55:44] <capitalthree> fry: for what? for minecraft modding?
L357[07:55:46] <fry> and working on bringing nulls more naturally into scala's type system would've been much more beneficial for everyone
L358[07:55:54] <capitalthree> fry: I mean for webapps I 1000% agree. webapp development in scala is pure bliss
L359[07:55:55] <fry> instead of creating a new language
L360[07:56:03] <fry> in general
L361[07:56:07] <capitalthree> I just think kotlin's strength over scala is working as a drop-in replacement for java
L362[07:56:14] <gigaherz|work> C#'s var is similar to kotlin's val
L363[07:56:17] <capitalthree> scala is too different to be such an easy transition
L364[07:56:41] <capitalthree> kotlin isn't meant to be an alternative to scala, I think
L365[07:56:42] <fry> eh, transition costs are very similar
L366[07:56:47] <capitalthree> no they're really not
L367[07:56:51] <Ivorius> Right click -> convert to kotlin
L368[07:56:51] <capitalthree> have you actually learned and tried kotlin?
L369[07:56:55] <Ivorius> Do a few adjustments and done :P
L370[07:57:06] <capitalthree> to be fair, intellij has convert to scala too :P
L371[07:57:26] <PaleoCrafter> isn't Kotlin-style nullability handling proposed for Dotty?
L372[07:57:37] <fry> I've read docs, but haven't used it extensively, since I don't see a niche that it would fill better than java or scala for me :P
L373[07:57:45] <capitalthree> fry: you asked for my reason for trying kotlin. and I told you, it was that it came from my favorite vendor of jvm static analysis tooling and I figured they might have some good ideas. tell me, is that a bad reason?
L374[07:58:07] <capitalthree> what I don't see is how kotlin could be *worse* than java
L375[07:58:19] <capitalthree> a lot of what it does is minor but it adds up to a lot of quality-of-life
L376[07:58:28] <capitalthree> I do feel the difference working in my kotlin code vs in other people's java code
L377[07:58:39] <fry> I don't believe in trusting vendors :P
L378[07:58:41] <PaleoCrafter> its type system's restrictions are somewhat iffy and in some cases I prefer Java's less strict system :P
L379[07:58:43] <capitalthree> the elvis operator alone saves me many ugly lines of code
L380[07:59:03] <capitalthree> fry: I don't trust them. I demoed their product by making a minecraft mod. it was a throwaway project at first, and I would not have been heartbroken if I ended up chucking the language
L381[07:59:24] <capitalthree> but now I don't have to trust them because it did not take long making myself learn to code in kotlin, for the language to really make me happy
L382[07:59:33] <capitalthree> PaleoCrafter: do you mean the null safety?
L383[07:59:41] <PaleoCrafter> nah, something else
L384[07:59:41] <fry> demoing a product = investing time :P
L385[07:59:42] <capitalthree> PaleoCrafter: kotlin always lets you do non-null-asserted calls
L386[07:59:47] <PaleoCrafter> can't remember of the top off my head
L387[07:59:52] <PaleoCrafter> had to do with generics, iirc
L388[08:00:11] <capitalthree> fry: it took me about 2 days, maybe a total of 8 hours, of coding before I was definitely enjoying kotlin more than java despite still having to look many things up
L389[08:00:40] <capitalthree> fry: look I get it, I don't expect everyone to drop what they're doing and invest the time. but at least acknowledge that you don't know for sure you wouldn't have a different opinion if you did so
L390[08:00:51] <capitalthree> I don't think it's the worst investment you could try
L391[08:00:58] <capitalthree> fry: want to see my kotlin mod code?
L392[08:01:18] <capitalthree> I mean if you're a scala user, it should be pretty familiar to you (it might confuse a lot of java-only modders)
L393[08:01:20] <fry> yes, but since you know scala too, why not use it instead? is your code dominated by null-checking code, and do you really not miss any of the more advanced features of scala?
L394[08:01:20] <PaleoCrafter> considering fry already is a Scala user, he just doesn't want to give up a lot of Scala's features in favour of Kotlin :P
L395[08:01:31] <PaleoCrafter> heh
L396[08:01:32] <fry> ^
L397[08:01:46] <Ivorius> capitalthree: Link it, I'd like a quick look
L398[08:01:48] <capitalthree> fry: which more advanced features of scala? the only thing I ever miss is pattern matching. kotlin's alternative is less powerful but it's not exactly pain street
L399[08:02:06] <capitalthree> PaleoCrafter: I think he's overestimating how many of scala's features he'd give up
L400[08:02:12] <PaleoCrafter> I don't think so :P
L401[08:02:22] <PaleoCrafter> path dependent types etc are fun
L402[08:02:27] <capitalthree> unless fry is one of those hardcore people who really knows how to torture the scala type system
L403[08:02:30] <capitalthree> ok fair
L404[08:02:59] <MWisBest> I'm just sitting here thinking "this is why I stick with Java for JVM"
L405[08:03:06] <capitalthree> Ivorius, fry, https://github.com/elytra/LingeringLoot/tree/master/src/main/kotlin/lingerloot
L406[08:03:14] <capitalthree> MWisBest: why? xD
L407[08:03:35] <Ivorius> > val shitTierMods: Set<String>
L408[08:03:38] <Ivorius> :D
L409[08:03:40] <fry> does kotlin have higher-kinded types?
L410[08:03:44] <capitalthree> fry: anyways at the end of the day, when I'm dealing with the needs of minecraft modding and calling a bunch of java code, kotlin just saves me a lot more keystrokes
L411[08:03:49] <capitalthree> than scala would I think
L412[08:03:51] <capitalthree> I could be wrong
L413[08:04:16] <fry> comparing keystrokes is obviously in fabour of kotlin
L414[08:04:19] <capitalthree> see the problem I have is I still don't understand what higher kinded types are >_> I think
L415[08:04:24] <fry> since you're using the ide by the same people :P
L416[08:04:34] <capitalthree> haha. ok I should say saving bytes
L417[08:04:42] <capitalthree> because to be fair to jetbrains, it's not like they neuter their support for other languages
L418[08:04:46] <capitalthree> it saves you a lot of keystrokes either way
L419[08:05:11] <MWisBest> capitalthree: I don't see a compelling reason to use anything other than Java for the JVM considering I don't even like anything JVM in the first place
L420[08:05:21] <fry> thing is, with scala you have a lot of room to grow as a developer, and you can learn about things like higher-kinded types and implicit parameters eventually :P
L421[08:05:25] <capitalthree> anyways fry I hope you don't think I'm trying to convince you kotlin is a better choice than scala. I mean personally I lean slightly towards it, *for minecraft modding*, but scala is great and I have no issue with it
L422[08:05:32] <fry> with kotling you're basically on the java level :P
L423[08:05:36] <fry> *kotlin
L424[08:06:01] <fry> and that ceiling is mainly what makes me sad
L425[08:06:16] <fry> since nobody will switch from kotlin to scala
L426[08:06:21] <capitalthree> fry: well I googled and I successfully found kotlin code I don't understand
L427[08:06:24] <capitalthree> something something monads
L428[08:06:44] <capitalthree> I don't think it's true that nobody will switch from kotlin to scala, either, I think it's a great stepping stone
L429[08:07:22] <capitalthree> because you get to learn that stuff that is more immediately useful and easier to understand, like functional-style chaining of immutable stuff, higher order functions, etc
L430[08:07:22] <MWisBest> capitalthree: the other thing is I don't trust other languages to stick around for the JVM. It's an irrational worry, yes, but Java will always be there for the JVM
L431[08:07:50] <capitalthree> MWisBest: if you don't like the only jvm language you know, isn't that a good reason *to* try other ones?
L432[08:07:56] <Ivorius> kotlin has monads?
L433[08:07:57] <capitalthree> and yes that's an irrational worry
L434[08:08:11] <capitalthree> Ivorius: if you make them yourself I guess. I am confused anyways
L435[08:08:14] <capitalthree> how awful is my code? :P
L436[08:08:29] <MWisBest> capitalthree: I don't mind Java the language. It works nicely enough for Android where I'm more familiar with it.
L437[08:08:43] <capitalthree> I want to learn how to apply kotlin on android too
L438[08:08:45] <Ivorius> Eh, I still think Kotlin is basically java with less boilerplate
L439[08:08:52] <Ivorius> Which is alright since Java has far too much
L440[08:08:56] <capitalthree> there is actually a good reason not to use scala on android... android devices are ram-limited and the scala library is *big*
L441[08:09:03] <PaleoCrafter> Ivorius, not in the type class sense, you'd have to implement a Monad interface yourself
L442[08:09:09] <fry> looks like there's no higher-kinded types in kotlin
L443[08:09:14] <fry> that was hard to google :P
L444[08:09:19] <capitalthree> Ivorius: yeah, java with less boilerplate is a good description
L445[08:09:34] <capitalthree> Ivorius: it has a lot of syntactic sugar, and then a little bit of actual semantic improvements
L446[08:09:35] <MWisBest> capitalthree: Android devices are only RAM limited because of all the crappy code app developers write.
L447[08:09:41] <fry> scala library is shrinking geometrically with each release :P
L448[08:09:52] <MWisBest> Android's profiling tools are incredible but no developers use them apparently
L449[08:09:53] <capitalthree> fry: awesome! I did not know that and that's really encouraging
L450[08:10:11] <capitalthree> fry: I really hope you don't think I'm not all for scala's future. I wouldn't consider replacing scala with kotlin for web dev for example
L451[08:10:31] <PaleoCrafter> Dotty ftw!
L452[08:11:13] <fry> kotlin is good if you want something that fixes top 10 obvious flaws of java today
L453[08:11:21] <capitalthree> EXACTLY
L454[08:11:23] <fry> but I'm not sure how long that will be true
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L456[08:11:35] <fry> and how well it will be able to evolve
L457[08:11:35] <capitalthree> and for everyone who's not going to jump to scala anyways, why shouldn't they consider kotlin over java?
L458[08:11:40] <Ivorius> capitalthree: Where's the convert to scala function
L459[08:11:42] <Ivorius> I want to compare
L460[08:11:54] <gigaherz|work> I wonder why's it taking so long for java to get null-propagation
L461[08:11:55] <capitalthree> Ivorius: I'm not sure if it can convert between kotlin and scala
L462[08:12:00] <capitalthree> Ivorius: do you want to see my other mod in scala?
L463[08:12:09] <PaleoCrafter> and you have to have the Scala plugin installed
L464[08:12:12] <PaleoCrafter> obviously xD
L465[08:12:19] <fry> gigaherz|work: nulls + generics = unsoundness
L466[08:12:33] <Ivorius> Nah my code is java
L467[08:12:48] <fry> https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/206638635-Java-to-Scala
L468[08:12:58] <capitalthree> Ivorius: don't machine-convert java to kotlin or scala to use as a representative example of either language.
L469[08:13:01] <capitalthree> please.
L470[08:13:18] <PaleoCrafter> fry, isn't Java's type system unsound anyways?
L471[08:13:30] <fry> it's good enough :P
L472[08:13:30] <capitalthree> Ivorius: btw if you have any comments on my code in any way, not just the nature of kotlin, I'm still very new to modding :P
L473[08:14:04] <Ivorius> Eh, I'm not here for an in-depth review :P
L474[08:14:05] <capitalthree> https://github.com/elytra/BTFU/tree/master/src/main/scala/btfubackup
L475[08:14:07] <Ivorius> I just want a quick look
L476[08:14:09] <capitalthree> here's my scala one
L477[08:14:21] <capitalthree> Ivorius: yeah that's fair, I don't expect one, but just in case :P
L478[08:14:23] <PaleoCrafter> Dotty's sound, right?
L479[08:14:36] <capitalthree> if you see something that jumps out at you as crazy, don't be afraid of offending me
L480[08:14:39] <fry> core is
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L482[08:14:54] <fry> not sure how nulls are handled in the formalism
L483[08:14:58] <Ivorius> fry: Isn't there
L484[08:15:04] <Ivorius> Weird
L485[08:15:21] <fry> you may need scala plugin installed
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L487[08:16:02] <capitalthree> I'm guessing if fry saw my scala code he'd be disappointed :P
L488[08:16:15] <capitalthree> I don't use any higher kinded types in my minecraft server backup mod!
L489[08:17:03] <fry> capitalthree: here's the main object for my scala mod, for comparison: https://github.com/RainWarrior/TrussMod/blob/1.7/src/trussmod/mod.scala :D
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L491[08:17:49] <Ivorius> You have a mod?
L492[08:17:57] <PaleoCrafter> for 1.7.10 :PO
L493[08:18:06] <PaleoCrafter> update it already, fry!
L494[08:18:14] <PaleoCrafter> it was gewd
L495[08:18:31] <fry> eh, I might
L496[08:18:46] <Ivorius> I get the notion of unescaped strings but
L497[08:18:52] <Ivorius> sets.setComment("""
L498[08:18:52] <Ivorius> Sets of blocks that move together (multiblock structures) (ADVANCED)
L499[08:18:52] <Ivorius> """)
L500[08:18:52] <Ivorius> looks weird with indentations
L501[08:19:01] <capitalthree> fry: ah ok, none of that seemed too out of the ordinary to me!
L502[08:19:28] <fry> but I only use 1 null, for the proxy field, while you use 4 :P
L503[08:20:26] <capitalthree> lol you're right
L504[08:20:30] <capitalthree> we use them for the same reasons though basically :P
L505[08:20:59] *** manmaed[away] is now known as manmaed
L506[08:21:02] <fry> also, no while loops in my code :P
L507[08:21:12] <fry> generally, we use very different styles
L508[08:21:29] <capitalthree> hehe those while loops were added in the most recent release
L509[08:21:44] <capitalthree> I didn't have them before I decided to hijack the server console to prompt for a backup directory
L510[08:22:00] <fry> does kotlin at least have {} imports? :P
L511[08:22:02] <capitalthree> I'm sure you know some sexier FP way to write that anyways though
L512[08:22:16] <capitalthree> as in, import anywhere and not just at the top? yeah of course
L513[08:22:28] <fry> import scala.collection.mutable.{ ArrayBuffer, Map => MMap }
L514[08:22:31] <fry> those ones :P
L515[08:22:34] <capitalthree> ohh
L516[08:22:37] <capitalthree> I think
L517[08:22:41] <capitalthree> I forgot
L518[08:22:47] <capitalthree> I don't ever write my own import lines xD
L519[08:23:09] <fry> yup, that's what happens when IDE does too much
L520[08:23:12] <gigaherz|work> I assume the => thing aliases the type name?
L521[08:23:27] <fry> if there's code that you've "written" but never read, there's something very wrong :P
L522[08:23:28] <capitalthree> fry: well what happens is that chumps like me are able to make minecraft mods exist
L523[08:23:31] <capitalthree> it's not all bad!
L524[08:23:57] <fry> gigaherz|work: yup, rename, to resolve local conflicts
L525[08:24:00] <gigaherz|work> so like C#'s "using Blah = Something;"
L526[08:24:11] <capitalthree> calling import lines "code" is kind of iffy anyways
L527[08:24:17] <capitalthree> they are just namespace mappings, that's it
L528[08:24:30] <capitalthree> unless I'm using my import lines to deceptively rename things, they're not that exciting
L529[08:24:37] <fry> namespace management is pretty much what java is for
L530[08:24:44] <fry> and the whole jvm ecosystem
L531[08:24:52] <capitalthree> and that's a big part of its success I think
L532[08:24:57] <fry> yup
L533[08:25:07] <capitalthree> actually successfully making a non-shit way for disparate code to coexist
L534[08:25:35] <capitalthree> it's not that I never read my import lines, btw
L535[08:25:47] <capitalthree> I always read them to see if any of them have the grey underline squiggles of "not used" :P
L536[08:25:48] <fry> looks like you can rename using "as"
L537[08:26:06] <capitalthree> usually after some coding, I have like 20 extra import lines to remove, because of all the stuff that got added while I was fumbling around
L538[08:26:14] <fry> but there's no grouped imports
L539[08:26:22] <capitalthree> yeah I guess not, sorry
L540[08:26:26] <capitalthree> kotlin sucks, keep using scala
L541[08:26:33] <capitalthree> I mean seriously, I already know scala is better
L542[08:26:35] <fry> it has been decided. :D
L543[08:26:45] <capitalthree> I just find kotlin convenient when directly calling a bunch of java code
L544[08:27:06] <capitalthree> another thing is scala's library rewrites everything. your collections aren't java collections, etc
L545[08:27:14] <capitalthree> so there's just less converting
L546[08:27:21] <capitalthree> either that or you just write scala but not really using the scala api as much
L547[08:27:32] <capitalthree> I dunno, it could just be that I suck
L548[08:27:44] <capitalthree> I have a mod in scala, and it's by no means a pain to develop, I certainly prefer it over java, and it's a mod I'm committed to
L549[08:27:55] <capitalthree> so I'll keep seeing how my opinions evolve as I learn modding better
L550[08:28:10] <capitalthree> I gotta go to bed o/ thanks for chatting fry
L551[08:28:23] <capitalthree> I think we largely agree, since you did admit that kotlin is nicer than java :P
L552[08:28:24] <Ivorius> Modding is just working with an API that the API doesn't want you to use
L553[08:28:34] <capitalthree> hehe yep
L554[08:28:36] <Ivorius> So you use reflection
L555[08:28:37] <Ivorius> The end
L556[08:28:49] <capitalthree> while I work on lingering loot hardcore mode features, like half the work is just making my FakePlayer more faker
L557[08:28:54] <capitalthree> so stuff doesn't crash
L558[08:29:07] <fry> more faker or less faker? :D
L559[08:29:15] <capitalthree> whichever one doesn't crash
L560[08:29:19] <fry> lol
L561[08:29:21] <capitalthree> right now my fake player is always sneaking!
L562[08:29:25] <gigaherz|work> better-faked
L563[08:29:25] <gigaherz|work> ;P
L564[08:29:27] <capitalthree> that way it won't permanently open chests that then never close :P
L565[08:29:37] <capitalthree> gigaherz|work: yeah but the class is called FakerPlayer
L566[08:29:52] <capitalthree> https://github.com/elytra/LingeringLoot/blob/master/src/main/kotlin/lingerloot/hardcore/ExtraFakePlayers.kt
L567[08:29:57] <capitalthree> this should be good for a laugh
L568[08:29:57] <gigaherz|work> so wait, how does a fake player open chests?
L569[08:30:03] <fry> also, if all you want is easier null handling: http://www.codecommit.com/blog/scala/implementing-groovys-elvis-operator-in-scala :P
L570[08:30:06] <gigaherz|work> I mean does it pretend to open a gui?
L571[08:30:20] <Ivorius> What I took from all of this nonsense: I hate boilerplate
L572[08:30:35] <Ivorius> So now I found the advanced java folding plugin
L573[08:30:40] <fry> LOL
L574[08:30:42] <Ivorius> And I'm half happy :D
L575[08:31:59] <fry> capitalthree: you're using if statements without braces, you should feel bad :P
L576[08:32:12] <capitalthree> fry: ah ok. I just looked it up... apparently the other one kotlin has that goes hand in hand with the elvis operator, is called the safe navigation operator
L577[08:32:29] <capitalthree> which I still don't think is possible in scala
L578[08:32:44] <capitalthree> and as for that elvis operator implementation you linked, it only works if your chain ends with something guaranteed to not be null
L579[08:32:46] <fry> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1163393/best-scala-imitation-of-groovys-safe-dereference-operator ? :P
L580[08:32:53] <capitalthree> in kotlin, I can still do an elvis operator chain with a nullable result
L581[08:33:35] <capitalthree> Ivorius: jetbrains' folding is excellent
L582[08:33:47] <capitalthree> it's amazing how many ways their ide bends over backwards to pretend java's as clean as kotlin :P
L583[08:33:49] <Ivorius> The fuck man
L584[08:33:52] <fry> don't see why it won't work with a nullable result
L585[08:33:55] <Ivorius> My code looks a bit like Kotlin now
L586[08:34:30] <capitalthree> Ivorius: yeah, because jetbrains made java code folding first, designed it to show what they thought was important, and then also designed a programming language to only make you type what they thought was important :P
L587[08:36:26] <capitalthree> fry: because that implementation of the elvis operator just works by using a right-associative operator that desugars to "defaultcase".?:(check)
L588[08:36:48] <capitalthree> unless I'm mistaken about scala, it will still NPE if defaultcase is null
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L590[08:37:42] <fry> it'll return null
L591[08:37:49] <fry> which is the intention, is it not?
L592[08:37:57] <capitalthree> I said if defaultcase is null, not check
L593[08:38:10] <capitalthree> or maybe you understood that
L594[08:38:15] <capitalthree> I guess I'd have to test it
L595[08:38:39] <capitalthree> as for the safe dereference operator you linked, you didn't refer to a specific example, but the only one I see that's relevant uses exception handling
L596[08:38:42] <capitalthree> so that's pretty gross :P
L597[08:38:43] <fry> ah, it desugars to new{..}.?:(check)
L598[08:39:01] <fry> so the caller isn't null, the field in the caller is
L599[08:39:06] <capitalthree> this seems like it *has* to have more jvm overhead than kotlin extension functions btw
L600[08:39:30] <capitalthree> I dunno
L601[08:39:41] <capitalthree> ok I see in that case fair enough
L602[08:39:58] <capitalthree> still that's the easy part. safe dereference seems like it'd need to be built into the language to work well
L603[08:40:12] <fry> one slightly lower returns Option, and doesn't throwanything :P
L604[08:40:23] <capitalthree> and scala's type system, at the end of the day, doesn't care about nullability, so even though you *can* use null you won't get enforcement help
L605[08:40:33] <capitalthree> fry: yeah the one with Option obviously doesn't count
L606[08:40:38] <capitalthree> that's not what we're talking about
L607[08:40:44] <fry> it actually does, not ideally though
L608[08:40:50] <fry> you can have non-nullable types
L609[08:41:07] <capitalthree> oh wait it just returns Option
L610[08:41:22] <Ivorius> I'm beginning to think they wrote the advanced folding thing to get people to use Kotlin
L611[08:41:23] <fry> yup
L612[08:41:32] <fry> you can always add .getOrElse(null) to that
L613[08:41:50] <capitalthree> Ivorius: well I've been an intellij user for a while and I can tell you that they were doing that before they launched kotlin
L614[08:41:57] <capitalthree> I really do think you have the cause-and-effect backwards
L615[08:42:05] <capitalthree> not everything they do to make java nice is to push kotlin
L616[08:42:06] <fry> Ivorius: kotlin basically is the advanced folding of java + some of the static checks that idea uses :P
L617[08:42:12] <capitalthree> kotlin is the culimination of everything they do to make java nice
L618[08:42:24] <fry> ^
L619[08:42:37] <Ivorius> Isn't kotlin like years old
L620[08:42:40] <capitalthree> extension functions are sweet though
L621[08:42:51] <Ivorius> They aren't, we covered that already :P
L622[08:43:07] <Ivorius> If the api implements a method by the same name, the extension function is forever useless
L623[08:43:10] <Ivorius> And you don't even get warned
L624[08:43:20] <Ivorius> That's just dumb
L625[08:43:21] <capitalthree> you can glue a method onto the nullable form of a type, so that you can then call that method on nullable values in a way that looks like an unsafe call but is really just calling a function and passing it null
L626[08:43:44] <capitalthree> oh?
L627[08:43:50] <capitalthree> what do you mean you don't get warned
L628[08:43:52] <PaleoCrafter> that actually happened to me >.>
L629[08:43:55] <capitalthree> there is definitely a warning if you shadow things
L630[08:44:03] <PaleoCrafter> I didn't see one
L631[08:44:10] <capitalthree> luckily nobody names shit like I do
L632[08:44:23] <Ivorius> do it the cocoa way
L633[08:44:35] <Ivorius> Name all your extension methods nsSomeMethod
L634[08:44:40] <Ivorius> Then you're safe
L635[08:44:51] <capitalthree> I guess what would be nice is if it just used a different symbol besides . to call extension functions
L636[08:44:54] <capitalthree> but too late for them to do that
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L638[08:45:33] <capitalthree> ok goodnight for reals, thank you all
L639[08:45:43] <fry> o/
L640[08:45:45] <capitalthree> this is plenty to think about, and my kotlin mod is just gonna get bigger, so I'll have to do the thinking :)
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L660[10:21:12] <Hink> What method on 1.8 obtains the client's NetHandlerPlayClient?
L661[10:21:22] <Hink> Minecraft#getConnection doesn't seem to be it.
L662[10:22:17] <ghz|afk> getConnection()?
L663[10:22:31] <ghz|afk> !mh Minecraft.getConnection
L664[10:22:38] <ghz|afk> ah no
L665[10:22:52] <ghz|afk> !mh Minecraft.getNetHandler
L666[10:23:01] <Hink> Minecraft.getMinecraft().getNetHandler()
L667[10:23:02] <Hink> c:
L668[10:23:04] <ghz|afk> yeah getNetHandler ;P
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L670[10:25:39] <Shambling> so... in 1.11.2, did forge or something change it so that air no longer has a isreplaceable property?
L671[10:26:12] <ghz|afk> wat?
L672[10:26:25] <Shambling> let me copy and paste the line , its... not too long
L673[10:26:47] <Shambling> I needed to add the line where it doesn't check against air in the second check
L674[10:26:48] <Shambling> if (state2.getBlock() == Blocks.AIR || (state2.getBlock() != Blocks.AIR && state2.getBlock().isReplaceable(world, top)))
L675[10:27:09] <ghz|afk> wat
L676[10:27:10] <Shambling> without the != blocks.air, getblock().isreplaceable causes a crash
L677[10:27:39] <ghz|afk> BlockAir returns true from isReplaceable
L678[10:28:06] <Shambling> I would have thought that as well
L679[10:28:13] <Shambling> but without that check in there, it crashes
L680[10:28:15] <Shambling> so *shrug*
L681[10:28:55] <Shambling> oops it died anyways
L682[10:29:27] <Shambling> elucent must not have had all the proper code in that git page, because his jar runs fine, but compiling from the old commit crashes
L683[10:29:42] <Shambling> oh well, I don't need gravel ore with working sound in 1.112. :P
L684[10:31:20] <Shambling> ah its snow
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L686[10:46:04] <Shambling> its trying to get layers from air
L687[10:47:00] <Shambling> that doesn't make any sense though, as the layers property shouldn't be called on air
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L690[10:51:19] <Shambling> looked like maybe a facing issue, resolved and recompiling.
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L692[10:55:07] <Shambling> and fixed, thanks for steering me away from a bad guess
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L696[11:00:39] <SatanicSanta> !latest
L697[11:00:39] <ryantheleach> Is forge-1.12-14.21.1.2397-universal.jar working for anyone else? I just tried the installer and ended up with https://gist.github.com/ryantheleach/78836b493e1a8639e5bf299c06a28a75 "java.io.FileNotFoundException: minecraft.jar (The system cannot find the file specified)" o.0
L698[11:02:48] <ghz|afk> how are you using it?
L699[11:03:30] <ryantheleach> java -Xms1G -Xmx2G -jar forge-1.12-14.21.1.2397-universal.jar, from batch file, from Z:\
L700[11:03:55] <ryantheleach> https://imgur.com/a/kQZM5
L701[11:04:31] <ghz|afk> and the minecraftserver jar is next to it?
L702[11:04:40] <ryantheleach> as shown in screenshot
L703[11:04:49] <ryantheleach> but yes
L704[11:09:24] <ghz|afk> hmm I used the installer to prepare a server folder, and it worked jsut fine -- after setting the eula.txt to true
L705[11:09:51] <ryantheleach> lets give that a shot, maybe it's an obtuse error message
L706[11:10:34] <ghz|afk> note: without mods
L707[11:10:34] <ryantheleach> Yeah, continues now.
L708[11:10:42] <ryantheleach> still errors, but it continues
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L710[11:11:14] <tterrag> fry: is it ever valid for ItemOverridesList.handleItemState to be given a null stack? (1.12)
L711[11:11:22] <tterrag> https://pastebin.com/4qbEFLLx
L712[11:11:46] <tterrag> I want to blame CCL but his code there is pretty transparent
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L720[11:45:11] <SatanicSanta> ok so I've got this buildscript https://github.com/Esteemed-Innovation/Esteemed-Innovation/blob/1.10/build.gradle and I'm currently trying to update to 1.11.2. It works fine in 1.10.2, but for some reason in 1.11.2 basically none of the libs except those specified in #dependencies are showing up in the intellij external libs section
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L725[12:00:24] <SatanicSanta> hm, I cleanCache'd and tried to set it up from scratch and got Patching failed: minecraft\net\minecraft\command\EntitySelector.java Hunk 1 failed! Cannot find hunk target
L726[12:01:18] <SatanicSanta> along w several other hunks but the output is long as fuck
L727[12:02:20] <ghz|afk> updating to 1.12?
L728[12:02:24] <SatanicSanta> 1.11
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L733[12:35:11] <ScottehBoeh> can I check that my URLConnection actually exists? (when downloading a file)
L734[12:35:18] <ScottehBoeh> Any methods that return null?
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L739[12:46:22] <ScottehBoeh> Ach nevermind I've got it. Forgot my try catch
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L745[13:26:33] <Ordinastie> for some reason, youtube suddenly decided to not show recommendations at the top :x
L746[13:26:56] <ScottehBoeh> Is there a Key/Input event?
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L748[13:27:08] <ScottehBoeh> I'm so stupid. Nvm I found it
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L753[13:59:34] <LexMobile> Ah yes another one of the "Im gunna clean things up without understanding why certian things are told to shut up!" https://github.com/MinecraftForge/MinecraftForge/commit/0e9820c51c1720bf8d49bd1431de06829ae6dc8d
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L755[14:16:58] <Ordinastie> hum?
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L766[15:31:31] <c64cosmin> When I enter my custom portal block I call for entityIn.changeDimension(...); I get the exception on WorldServer.getDefaultTeleporter(); how can I bind my WorldProvider with a teleporter
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L782[16:30:43] <ScottehBoeh> G'day :D
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L822[18:12:51] <Elec0> So I'm having this issue and I can't figure out where I'm going wrong: https://puu.sh/wDnxB/3560905a79.png (I'm in 1.12)
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L824[18:21:09] <Elec0> nvm, I wasn't initializing the models correctly. Figured it out
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L833[18:29:46] <capitalthree> is TickEvent.RenderTickEvent.renderTickTime a time since the game started, or since the last render tick, or something else?
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L872[22:23:43] <capitalthree> is there a good way to get a reference to RenderItem or should I AT it?
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L874[22:25:42] <SatanicSanta> Minecraft.getMinecraft().getRenderItem() or whatever is a thing iirc
L875[22:29:48] <capitalthree> SatanicSanta: thanks that worked!
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L889[23:21:41] <capitalthree> whoah I stumbled into the line of code that drops an apple if Notch dies
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L891[23:30:22] <kashike> lol
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