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L16[02:00:03] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV]
Pushing snapshot_20170706 mappings to Forge Maven.
L17[02:00:07] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV]
Maven upload successful for mcp_snapshot-20170706-1.12.zip
(mappings = "snapshot_20170706" in build.gradle).
L18[02:00:17] <MCPBot_Reborn> Semi-live
(every 10 min), Snapshot (daily ~3:00 EST), and Stable (committed)
MCPBot mapping exports can be found here:
http://export.mcpbot.bspk.rs/
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L27[03:03:38] <ollieread> :)
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L33[04:03:48] *
TechnicianLP really could use the datapack system ...
L34[04:09:12] <gigaherz|work> wait for 1.13
;P
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L38[04:21:07] <TechnicianLP> well ...
maybe
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L47[04:50:19] <capitalthree> when my mod
simulates a right click on a chest, it opens and stays open
permanently (even if I open and close it myself)
L48[04:50:24] <capitalthree> does anybody
know what's going on?
L49[04:52:37] <gigaherz|work> you mess up
the open counter
L50[04:53:48] <capitalthree> is it possible
to test whether a block has an item-specific interaction with an
itemstack, but without triggering any interactions that could be
done with an empty hand?
L51[04:54:38] <gigaherz|work> no idea what
you mean
L52[04:55:04] <gigaherz|work> but I think
the answer is going to be "no" ;P
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L54[04:56:25] <TechnicianLP> test wheter a
block has a rightclick action specific to the itemstack used?
sounds very specific ... hat are you trying to achieve? (as it
probably wont be possible without inspecting bytecode)
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L56[04:58:08] <capitalthree> it's kind of
autonomous-activator-like functionality but in a different
context
L57[04:58:44] <capitalthree> sometimes
there are specific things that do specific things to specific
blocks when right clicking, like an ender eye on end portal
blocks
L58[04:59:01] <capitalthree> but I don't
want to trigger behaviors that would happen on right click
regardless of what you're holding
L59[04:59:56] <capitalthree> nevermind I
think I'm overthinking this
L60[05:00:03] <capitalthree> I'm just going
to simulate sneaking and call it a day >_>
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L80[06:38:01] <gigaherz|work> 13:37, just
saying.
L81[06:38:32] <Hubry> I see this with a
13:38 timestamp :P
L82[06:39:00] <gigaherz|work> yeah I
failed
L83[06:39:01] <gigaherz|work> [13:38]
(gigaherz|work): 13:37, just saying.
L84[06:39:09] <gigaherz|work> the clock
changed while I was correcting a typo
L85[06:39:12] <gigaherz|work> ;_;
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L88[06:40:44] <gigaherz|work> apparently
mojang has job openings
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L90[06:44:39] ***
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L91[06:46:20] <immibis> who'd want to work
for mojang on the software microsoft is trying to kill off?
L92[06:47:00] <capitalthree> I do like the
idea of money, but nobody would pay me to make the mods I make
xD
L93[06:47:13] <capitalthree> I like my
creative freedom (to be weird)
L94[06:47:31] <PaleoCrafter> immibis, you'd
be working on the C++ version, which M$ is happy to support
:P
L95[06:47:31] <capitalthree> I don't think
jvm minecraft is going anywhere
L96[06:47:56] <capitalthree> microsoft will
turn the other one into a giant cash cow but people who love mods
will flock back to the jvm
L97[06:47:56] <immibis> capitalthree: it
will go wherever microsoft says it goes and microsoft would be
putting their money into the non-java ones
L98[06:48:13] <immibis> capitalthree: at
best it will remain floating around but won't ever be developed any
more
L99[06:48:32] <capitalthree> immibis:
they've already developed it for an impressively long time
L100[06:48:35] <immibis> at worst they
stop distributing it then go after anyone who does for piracy
L101[06:48:45] <PaleoCrafter> That's
actually good for us, though, considering that Forge will have much
more room for optimisation
L102[06:48:54] <PaleoCrafter> not the
distribution part, mind you xD
L103[06:48:55] <immibis> PaleoCrafter: HA.
HA
L104[06:48:59] <capitalthree> yeah the mod
community will stabilize
L105[06:49:24] <capitalthree> 2 years
after the mc version freeze, we'll see total conversions and
modpacks like nothing the world has ever seen\
L106[06:49:37] <immibis> i've been through
3 different "stabilizations" when mojang was
exceptionally slow to release an update
L107[06:49:56] <capitalthree> yeah it
sucks when they just slow down but don't stop :P
L108[06:50:02] <immibis> actually maybe it
does work if they stop completely
L109[06:50:08] <immibis> however then the
churn just shifts onto forge
L110[06:50:23] <immibis> also i was
laughing at the idea of forge ever being optimized. how much memory
does a vanilla+forge installation take now?
L111[06:51:04] <PaleoCrafter> Unless
Vanilla has done it until then, we'll actually be able to offload
stuff onto the GPU when Mojang ever stops :P
L112[06:52:53] <gigaherz|work> if ms
"kills" java minecraft
L113[06:53:00] <gigaherz|work> we'll just
write mods to repalce everything vanilla does
L114[06:53:02] <capitalthree> I remember
the days of mcpc+ for 1.7.10
L115[06:53:09] <gigaherz|work> and end up
runnign forge without a minecraft ;P
L116[06:53:09] <capitalthree> they had
seemingly made a lot of progress
L117[06:53:55] <capitalthree>
gigaherz|work: that's not how ip law works :P
L118[06:54:02] <gigaherz|work> what?
L119[06:54:12] <gigaherz|work> if mojang
stops supporting minecraft
L120[06:54:18] <gigaherz|work> we'll just
stop using minecraft
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L122[06:54:23] <gigaherz|work> is all I'm
saying
L123[06:54:23] <immibis> capitalthree:
which IP law?
L124[06:54:23] <gigaherz|work> ;P
L125[06:54:41] <immibis> capitalthree: you
can copy ideas verbatim, just not code or textures, and trademarks
stop you using the name "minecraft"
L126[06:54:59] <gigaherz|work> if copying
ideas was illegal
L127[06:55:09] <gigaherz|work> all those
mine* and *craft games on phones would be sued
L128[06:55:36] <PaleoCrafter> Hm... that'd
actually force people to come up with creative names
L129[06:55:40] *
PaleoCrafter looks at his own name
L130[06:55:41] <PaleoCrafter> welp
L131[06:57:25] <PaleoCrafter> who knows,
maybe the official API will turn out great and much more permissive
than we all think
L132[06:57:25] <PaleoCrafter> lol
L133[06:58:48] <capitalthree> immibis:
forge was developed entirely around minecraft. there would be no
way now to rewrite the minecraft parts to prevent a very easy
copyright claim
L134[06:59:20] <capitalthree> we could
rewrite the whole thing and implement the forge api, but a huge
amount of forge code that's intertwined with the minecraft engine
would have to be tossed at least
L135[06:59:36] <immibis> capitalthree: i
don't think anyone meant to keep the API exactly the same
L136[06:59:43] <capitalthree> yeah
L137[06:59:54] <capitalthree> definitely
it wouldn't allow existing mods to work because they're all written
around minecraft internals
L138[07:00:12] <capitalthree> if you just
mean "a new block game" then for sure, I'd like to see an
open source take on this
L139[07:00:48] <PaleoCrafter> the API
already changes a lot between individual *official* versions of the
game, expecting anything to work on a complete rewrite is a
pipedream anyways
L140[07:00:49] <capitalthree> so fair,
anyways maybe I misunderstood
L141[07:01:25] <gigaherz|work>
capitalthree: uhm, we don't even use official names
L142[07:01:39] <gigaherz|work> all the
code references to minecraft classes, are actually mcp names made
up by the community
L143[07:02:12] <capitalthree> yeah but we
don't use a real API, we directly interact with internals. that
means, to keep compatibility, we'd have to variable-for-variable
clone those internals, which would be a copyright violation if that
is then used outside of minecraft
L144[07:02:21] <immibis> capitalthree: no,
we'd have to update those mods
L145[07:02:24] <capitalthree> right
L146[07:02:29] <gigaherz|work> well
L147[07:02:31] <capitalthree> that's what
we'd have to do in reality
L148[07:02:32] <immibis> manually or
otherwise
L149[07:02:36] <gigaherz|work> we have to
rebuild mods on major version updates
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L151[07:02:47] <immibis> or write a shim
layer that is nothing like minecraft's internals except for
matching the names
L152[07:02:49] <gigaherz|work> so it would
make perfect sense to rebuild mods to make them compatible with
"forge without minecraft"
L153[07:03:04] <capitalthree> what we're
talking about would be much more major than any minecraft version
update
L154[07:03:20] <gigaherz|work> less an
less with every version
L155[07:03:24] <gigaherz|work> the more
things we move to json
L156[07:03:37] <gigaherz|work> the less
things will be in the way when that happens
L157[07:03:39] <capitalthree> anyways I
honestly don't think they'll kill it, what's their incentive to do
that? it's still a product they make nonzero money on and it
doesn't cost them much
L158[07:04:02] <capitalthree> I'm the
biggest microsoft hater around, but in this case I just don't see
it
L159[07:04:02] <gigaherz|work> well,
dinnerbone said the other day that they do not have any plans to
stop developing the java version
L160[07:04:06] <capitalthree> I can't see
a motive
L161[07:04:19] <capitalthree> it can't be
that expensive to keep maintaining it given the sales even in
2017
L162[07:04:22] <immibis> gigaherz|work:
true. microsoft wants everything json so they can embrace/extend
it, but it also makes it easier for other players to
L163[07:04:41] <immibis> capitalthree: the
incentive is reducing dilution and confusion
L164[07:05:00] <immibis> the other day i
met someone who played minecraft and thought it was meh. that's
because they played story mode and they thought that's what
minecraft was
L165[07:05:17] <capitalthree> oh
gawd
L166[07:05:26] <immibis> imagine if
there's two different versions
L167[07:05:53] <capitalthree> yeah the
fact that it's called "mode" should trigger consumer
protection issues :P why is there no expectation of any amount of
accuracy when companies communicate to users about the software
they're buying?
L168[07:06:03] <capitalthree> this
corporatist world we live in...
L169[07:06:11] <immibis> alice: "hey
bob let's play minecraft [microsoft edition] together" bob:
"ok cool *starts minecraft [java edition], tries to connect*
*server not found* hey wait wtf?" bob to his friends:
"hey guys minecraft multiplayer is real flaky"
L170[07:06:19] <gigaherz|work> uhm
L171[07:06:37] <gigaherz|work> "story
mode" was chosen probably because mc already has
"adventure mode" and "creative mode" and
"survival mode"
L172[07:06:46] <immibis> gigaherz|work:
yes and story mode is nothing like any of those
L173[07:06:50] <immibis> it's an entirely
separate game
L174[07:06:53] <gigaherz|work> yup
L175[07:06:55] <immibis> which is
misleading
L176[07:07:18] <PaleoCrafter> I think
it'll get even worse when people start talking about Minecraft and
some actually mean the books xD
L177[07:07:27] <gigaherz|work> there's
books?
L178[07:07:30] <PaleoCrafter> yep
L179[07:07:46] <immibis> it's like when
people complain about their email not working and you come over to
look and they're at the windows login screen saying their password
has expired. EXCEPT IT'S THE VENDOR DOING IT
L180[07:07:56] <capitalthree> immibis:
it's going to be hard to kill though because there will always be
users seeing youtube videos of crazy mods and flocking to the java
version :P
L181[07:08:02] <immibis> or when dell
starts labelling monitors "computers"
L182[07:08:13] <immibis> capitalthree:
hard to kill 100%, sure
L183[07:08:39] <PaleoCrafter> damn, can't
find the books right now
L184[07:09:06] <PaleoCrafter> apparently
there's comics as well, though
L185[07:09:11] <capitalthree> it really is
the bait-and-switch of the century, though, huh. a game achieved
name recognition like no other game ever, so microsoft is trying to
hide it and sell a different game using that name
L187[07:09:15] <capitalthree> A+
L188[07:10:05] <gigaherz|work> oh
L189[07:10:07] <gigaherz|work> it's not
even official
L190[07:10:15] <PaleoCrafter> there are
official books
L191[07:10:20] <PaleoCrafter> I can't
remember the god damn name though
L192[07:10:21] <immibis> capitalthree:
yes, one with future microtransactions etc
L193[07:10:35] <capitalthree> it has
microtransactions already, no?
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L195[07:10:54] <capitalthree> hmmm
*ponders minecraft microtransactions mod using diamonds*
L196[07:11:16] <immibis> and they need to
drum up interest first with the free windows 10 thing and
stuff
L197[07:11:19] <gigaherz|work> mc has had
microtransactons for a while
L198[07:11:20] <capitalthree> I could call
the mod Empty Yo Minecraft Pocket
L199[07:11:21] <capitalthree> get
it?
L200[07:11:23] <immibis> as much as
possible
L201[07:11:26] <gigaherz|work> on console
and mcpe
L202[07:11:29] <gigaherz|work> you can buy
skin packs and such
L203[07:11:30] <immibis> gigaherz|work:
well then exactly
L205[07:12:59] <capitalthree> hm I should
name it Minecraft Marketplace Experience
L206[07:13:07] <capitalthree> and style it
just like the minecraft marketplace
L207[07:13:24] <capitalthree> maybe I can
have it fetch actual texture packs and stuff
L209[07:13:36] <TechnicianLP> wouldnt it
actually be possible for mojnag to make microtransactions
availiable on the java-version? - make a website for it and offer
the downloads ...
L210[07:13:42] <capitalthree> how great
would it be to have a mod that replaces the texture pack switcher
with a marketplace that charges you diamonds :D
L211[07:13:48] <PaleoCrafter> an actual,
official Minecraft novel
L212[07:13:54] <immibis> TechnicianLP:
probably yes but then it wouldn't be well integrated with windows
store
L213[07:14:01] <immibis> because it's not
a windows store app
L214[07:14:09] <capitalthree>
TechnicianLP: well it would be "possible" but the game
already lets you use any texture pack or skin you want
L215[07:14:21] <capitalthree> it would be
tough for them to walk back existing features and then charge for
them on a retail game
L216[07:16:09] <TechnicianLP> i wasn't
talking about removing the feature ... but why not offer the
resourcepacks/maps for jvm users as well? (hard part would be to
download them into the resourcepack/saves-folder though ...)
L217[07:16:10] <PaleoCrafter> heh,
ghz|afk, same thought at Dinnerbone's tweet :P
L218[07:16:18] <gigaherz|work> XD
L219[07:16:27] <PaleoCrafter> also, I find
you way too often in the replies to random tweets >.>
L220[07:16:40] <gigaherz|work> XD
L221[07:16:40] <capitalthree>
TechnicianLP: probably because they can't confidently DRM them in
the most modded game ever :P
L222[07:16:45] <capitalthree> but yeah
they *could*
L223[07:16:58] <gigaherz|work> most of the
people I follow are related to minecraft one way or another
L224[07:17:01] <capitalthree> I just don't
think anyone would buy them because we are already used to having
rich piles of that sort of content for free
L225[07:17:12] <immibis> capitalthree: new
players aren't
L226[07:17:26] <TechnicianLP> you cant drm
them on any console ... homebrew is strong these days ...
L227[07:17:57] <immibis> now i'm actually
going to bed
L228[07:18:07] <capitalthree>
TechnicianLP: the bar is a lot lower to download a ripped zip of a
texture pack for minecraft java, vs doing whatever it takes to
jailbreak your console and mess with the microsoft minecraft
:P
L229[07:18:11] <capitalthree> sleep well
immibis!
L230[07:19:05]
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L232[07:21:38] <TechnicianLP> i think both
cases are about equally unlikely ... (i mean if someone really
wants free stuff they will do a lot of things ...) but i think the
wast majority of players wouldn't mind paying the authors of the
content they really like ... (if the prices are appropriate)
L233[07:23:00] <capitalthree> yeah but the
trick is it would require a cultural change
L234[07:23:10]
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L235[07:23:21] <capitalthree> because
unless things change, people are already producing far higher
quality content for free than what they're putting out on their
silly marketplace for pay
L236[07:24:00] <capitalthree> microsoft
needs to either convince the community to stop making great content
for free, or at least guide the community towards being fragmented
and unaware enough that users don't know about the free
content
L237[07:24:45] <TechnicianLP> thats
something i can agree with - most good content is availible for
free atm ... (imagine paying for mods on curse xD)
L238[07:25:06] <capitalthree> personally I
make only open source mods and that's the way I want to see the
community go
L239[07:25:21] <gigaherz|work> OOOOH
L240[07:25:25] <capitalthree> we're
modding a game and this should just be a social thing. if people
want money, it's really a better idea to make an original game most
likely
L241[07:25:29] <gigaherz|work> byosgr was
a imgur image code
L242[07:25:34] <gigaherz|work>
biyosgr*
L243[07:25:35] <PaleoCrafter> ah
L245[07:25:46] <PaleoCrafter> but I've
seen that picture before, I think Oo
L246[07:25:49] <TechnicianLP> ghz: ?
L247[07:26:16] <PaleoCrafter> and is that
supposed to be a !=? xD
L248[07:26:24] <gigaherz|work>
TechnicianLP: dinnerbone tweets
L250[07:26:46] <gigaherz|work> someone
realized what those accents pointed at
L253[07:27:45] <gigaherz|work>
PaleoCrafter: I think it's intended to be
nbt=<expression>
L254[07:27:54] <gigaherz|work> where the
expression is "!{...}"
L255[07:28:12] <gigaherz|work> meaning
"does not contain", I suppose
L256[07:28:17] <PaleoCrafter> hm... I
guess
L257[07:28:36] <PaleoCrafter> we need a
proper NBT querying lang
L258[07:28:43] <gigaherz|work> HQL
L259[07:28:50] <gigaherz|work> (hibernate
query language)
L260[07:29:26] <PaleoCrafter> I'd have
thought of something like XPath
L261[07:29:27] <fry> god no, shouldn't be
NBT
L262[07:30:57] <gigaherz|work> or plain
old sql... @sql[SELECT e FROM entities WHERE ... ]
L263[07:31:11] <PaleoCrafter> god no
L264[07:31:33]
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L265[07:32:47] <gigaherz|work> path-style
queries would be nice though ...
@e[nbt("A/B/C")==3]
L266[07:33:04] <PaleoCrafter> yep
L267[07:34:03] <fry> what's 3? is it int,
or is it byte, or is it string?
L268[07:35:03] <gigaherz|work> whatever
needs to be
L269[07:35:04] <gigaherz|work> ;P
L270[07:35:18] <fry> so, implicit
conversions
L271[07:35:20] <gigaherz|work> if both are
numeric, it's compared as numbers, else as strings
L272[07:35:25] <capitalthree> more
dynamism!
L273[07:35:28] <gigaherz|work> I would
convert implicitly, yes
L274[07:35:32] <capitalthree> let's make
minecraft mods in groovy!
L275[07:35:35] *
capitalthree ducks
L276[07:35:36] <fry> cause that worked out
so well in the past
L277[07:35:47] <capitalthree> wait has
someone tried that?
L278[07:35:51] <gigaherz|work> this is a
commandblock query, not mod logic ;p
L279[07:36:01] <fry> there's no
difference
L280[07:36:40] ⇦
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L281[07:36:40] ***
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L282[07:41:21] <gigaherz|work> fry: okay
then, ==3 -> compares only the value regardless of type, 3b or
"3" would force a specific type
L283[07:42:43] <capitalthree> so when we
rewrite forge post-minecraft, how do I convince everyone to switch
to kotlin?
L284[07:42:50] <fry> what if the type is
incorrect? does it always fail, or does it throw an error?
L285[07:43:06] <capitalthree> fry: it
guesses based on an enormous list of javascritesque heuristics
:D
L286[07:43:43] <fry> there's hardly any
reason for anyone to use kotlin
L287[07:43:54] <capitalthree> D: what
about the fact that it's a great language?
L288[07:44:01] <fry> it's really not
L289[07:44:13] <fry> it's a greatly
marketed language
L290[07:44:52] <capitalthree> I've been
using it pretty heavily, I'm not just going off marketing
L291[07:44:56] <capitalthree> I'd love to
hear what you mean by that
L292[07:45:02] <Ivorius> If they work out
the kinks it might be more usable than java
L293[07:45:09] <Ivorius> Which is a plus
:P
L294[07:45:19] <capitalthree> I already
find it way more usable than java xD
L295[07:45:22] <fry> how did you learn
about it? why did you start using it?
L296[07:46:31] <gigaherz|work> it uses
"fun" as a keyword for declaring functions
L297[07:46:34] <capitalthree> I learned
about it on jetbrains' site when I went to download their IDE. I
started using it because they already make my favorite static
analysis tooling for java, and a lot of what kotlin offered just
seemed like more concise equivalents to the annotation processing
they already offer.
L298[07:46:36] <gigaherz|work> that makes
it a joke so far as i'm concerned
L299[07:46:51] <capitalthree> and a lot of
the other stuff kotlin offered resembled scala
L300[07:47:01] <capitalthree> which I have
industry experience with
L301[07:47:30] <capitalthree> so I found
it not only very easy to learn kotlin, but also very easy to do
most of the things I'd like to do in scala, in kotlin
L302[07:47:34] <fry> and you prefer kotlin
to scala? :P
L303[07:47:47] <Akkarin> oh god he said
it. Here come the scala fanatics x.x
L304[07:47:50] <capitalthree> I wouldn't
say that, but when I'm working within a java codebase, yeah, it's a
better fit
L305[07:48:12] <capitalthree> scala has
rough edges when interfacing with java code
L306[07:48:18] <capitalthree> kotlin is
the opposite, that's a primary design goal for it
L307[07:48:27] <capitalthree> I'd rather
call java code from kotlin than call java code from java
L308[07:48:59] <fry> do you have any
particular examples of those rough edges? :P
L309[07:49:01] <capitalthree> so the 2
minecraft mods I maintain... one is in scala, and one is in kotlin,
because I wanted to try stuff out basically
L310[07:49:13] <capitalthree> fry: yeah
well the biggest one is null
L311[07:49:35] <capitalthree> scala
convention and scala's library assumes no nulls, so if calling java
code that might have nulls, you have to be very aware
L312[07:49:43] <gigaherz|work> I put
kotlin on the same box as D -- nice idea but eh, pass.
L313[07:49:59] <capitalthree> and then
when communicating back to java code, be able to generate nulls
even though it's nonstandard for your language
L314[07:50:15] ⇦
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L315[07:50:19] <capitalthree> I dunno much
about D but do you have a reason for passing? besides
"fun"?
L316[07:50:24] <capitalthree> you like to
cite that but it's pretty childish
L317[07:51:02] *
fry personally never had any issues with null support in
scala
L318[07:51:11] <capitalthree> fry: kotlin,
on the other hand, embraces null by just working nullable into the
type system but letting it work the same at the jvm, so java code
has no problem with kotlin code (it just turns into nullability
annotations)
L319[07:51:19] <capitalthree> and kotlin
code calling java code can use its nullability annotations if it
has them
L320[07:51:23] <fry> and nullness is
pretty much the only unique feature that kotlin has
L321[07:51:43] <capitalthree> fry: it's
not that scala doesn't *support* null. it's that scala doesn't
encourage you to use it, and kotlin handles using null very
smoothly
L322[07:52:00] <fry> and, nullability
annotations break down fairly fast if you try to use them for
complex code :P
L323[07:52:00] <capitalthree> kotlin
provides much of the same functionality on nullable types that
scala provides for Option
L324[07:52:15] <capitalthree> yeah which
is why kotlin is better than just juryrigging annotations into
java
L325[07:52:39] <capitalthree> but
annotations are better than no annotations, and in particular,
other people's annotations help me :P
L326[07:52:45] <capitalthree> since
they're writing in java anyways
L327[07:52:53] <gigaherz|work> I very much
prefer C#'s approach on nullability
L328[07:53:01] <capitalthree> kotlin has a
lot of other features over java
L329[07:53:02] <gigaherz|work>
non-nullable types can be made nullable by adding "?" at
the end
L330[07:53:09] <capitalthree> as far as
compared to scala, maybe not much
L331[07:53:11] <gigaherz|work> and
nullable types can be made non-nullable by adding "!" at
the end
L332[07:53:22] <capitalthree>
gigaherz|work: yep that's how kotlin does it
L333[07:53:39] *
capitalthree watches gigaherz|work contort that into somehow being
a reason to hate kotlin anyways
L334[07:53:43] <gigaherz|work> the
downside is that java's annotation are backward compatible with the
same libraries that didn't have the annotations
L335[07:53:48] <Ivorius> And swift
:P
L336[07:53:52] <MWisBest> does Kotlin have
pointers? :>
L337[07:53:59] <capitalthree> it's still a
jvm language :P
L338[07:54:19] <gigaherz|work> kotlin does
have some good things
L339[07:54:21] <MWisBest> i'm
kidding
L340[07:54:21] <fry> thing is, kotling
took the least amount of features possible over java, and didn't
took anything truly game-changing
L341[07:54:21] <capitalthree> kotlin
really is very close to java and that's a strength
L342[07:54:32] <gigaherz|work> the stuff
that kills it for me is the "var: Type" ordering, and
"fun"
L343[07:54:34] <capitalthree> fry: type
inferrence alone would make me switch
L344[07:54:34] <gigaherz|work> specially
"fun"
L345[07:54:47] <capitalthree>
gigaherz|work: that semantic makes sense when type ascriptions are
optional in many cases
L346[07:54:55] <capitalthree> and yeah fun
is dumb, but grow the fuck up, are you really going to keep
bringing that up?
L347[07:55:00] <capitalthree> it just
shows you have no real reasons >_>
L348[07:55:08] <gigaherz|work> C# just
does
L349[07:55:11] <gigaherz|work> var t =
expr;
L350[07:55:13] <gigaherz|work> for
inferred
L351[07:55:18] <fry> my point is,
switching to scala is better in the long run, at least imho
L352[07:55:20] <gigaherz|work> int t =
expr; for explicit
L353[07:55:21] <capitalthree>
gigaherz|work: so does kotlin
L354[07:55:28] <capitalthree> ok I see,
and how do you distinguish var and val?
L355[07:55:35] <gigaherz|work> there's no
"val" in C#
L356[07:55:44] <capitalthree> fry: for
what? for minecraft modding?
L357[07:55:46] <fry> and working on
bringing nulls more naturally into scala's type system would've
been much more beneficial for everyone
L358[07:55:54] <capitalthree> fry: I mean
for webapps I 1000% agree. webapp development in scala is pure
bliss
L359[07:55:55] <fry> instead of creating a
new language
L360[07:56:03] <fry> in general
L361[07:56:07] <capitalthree> I just think
kotlin's strength over scala is working as a drop-in replacement
for java
L362[07:56:14] <gigaherz|work> C#'s var is
similar to kotlin's val
L363[07:56:17] <capitalthree> scala is too
different to be such an easy transition
L364[07:56:41] <capitalthree> kotlin isn't
meant to be an alternative to scala, I think
L365[07:56:42] <fry> eh, transition costs
are very similar
L366[07:56:47] <capitalthree> no they're
really not
L367[07:56:51] <Ivorius> Right click ->
convert to kotlin
L368[07:56:51] <capitalthree> have you
actually learned and tried kotlin?
L369[07:56:55] <Ivorius> Do a few
adjustments and done :P
L370[07:57:06] <capitalthree> to be fair,
intellij has convert to scala too :P
L371[07:57:26] <PaleoCrafter> isn't
Kotlin-style nullability handling proposed for Dotty?
L372[07:57:37] <fry> I've read docs, but
haven't used it extensively, since I don't see a niche that it
would fill better than java or scala for me :P
L373[07:57:45] <capitalthree> fry: you
asked for my reason for trying kotlin. and I told you, it was that
it came from my favorite vendor of jvm static analysis tooling and
I figured they might have some good ideas. tell me, is that a bad
reason?
L374[07:58:07] <capitalthree> what I don't
see is how kotlin could be *worse* than java
L375[07:58:19] <capitalthree> a lot of
what it does is minor but it adds up to a lot of
quality-of-life
L376[07:58:28] <capitalthree> I do feel
the difference working in my kotlin code vs in other people's java
code
L377[07:58:39] <fry> I don't believe in
trusting vendors :P
L378[07:58:41] <PaleoCrafter> its type
system's restrictions are somewhat iffy and in some cases I prefer
Java's less strict system :P
L379[07:58:43] <capitalthree> the elvis
operator alone saves me many ugly lines of code
L380[07:59:03] <capitalthree> fry: I don't
trust them. I demoed their product by making a minecraft mod. it
was a throwaway project at first, and I would not have been
heartbroken if I ended up chucking the language
L381[07:59:24] <capitalthree> but now I
don't have to trust them because it did not take long making myself
learn to code in kotlin, for the language to really make me
happy
L382[07:59:33] <capitalthree>
PaleoCrafter: do you mean the null safety?
L383[07:59:41] <PaleoCrafter> nah,
something else
L384[07:59:41] <fry> demoing a product =
investing time :P
L385[07:59:42] <capitalthree>
PaleoCrafter: kotlin always lets you do non-null-asserted
calls
L386[07:59:47] <PaleoCrafter> can't
remember of the top off my head
L387[07:59:52] <PaleoCrafter> had to do
with generics, iirc
L388[08:00:11] <capitalthree> fry: it took
me about 2 days, maybe a total of 8 hours, of coding before I was
definitely enjoying kotlin more than java despite still having to
look many things up
L389[08:00:40] <capitalthree> fry: look I
get it, I don't expect everyone to drop what they're doing and
invest the time. but at least acknowledge that you don't know for
sure you wouldn't have a different opinion if you did so
L390[08:00:51] <capitalthree> I don't
think it's the worst investment you could try
L391[08:00:58] <capitalthree> fry: want to
see my kotlin mod code?
L392[08:01:18] <capitalthree> I mean if
you're a scala user, it should be pretty familiar to you (it might
confuse a lot of java-only modders)
L393[08:01:20] <fry> yes, but since you
know scala too, why not use it instead? is your code dominated by
null-checking code, and do you really not miss any of the more
advanced features of scala?
L394[08:01:20] <PaleoCrafter> considering
fry already is a Scala user, he just doesn't want to give up a lot
of Scala's features in favour of Kotlin :P
L395[08:01:31] <PaleoCrafter> heh
L397[08:01:46] <Ivorius> capitalthree:
Link it, I'd like a quick look
L398[08:01:48] <capitalthree> fry: which
more advanced features of scala? the only thing I ever miss is
pattern matching. kotlin's alternative is less powerful but it's
not exactly pain street
L399[08:02:06] <capitalthree>
PaleoCrafter: I think he's overestimating how many of scala's
features he'd give up
L400[08:02:12] <PaleoCrafter> I don't
think so :P
L401[08:02:22] <PaleoCrafter> path
dependent types etc are fun
L402[08:02:27] <capitalthree> unless fry
is one of those hardcore people who really knows how to torture the
scala type system
L403[08:02:30] <capitalthree> ok
fair
L404[08:02:59] <MWisBest> I'm just sitting
here thinking "this is why I stick with Java for
JVM"
L406[08:03:14] <capitalthree> MWisBest:
why? xD
L407[08:03:35] <Ivorius> > val
shitTierMods: Set<String>
L408[08:03:38] <Ivorius> :D
L409[08:03:40] <fry> does kotlin have
higher-kinded types?
L410[08:03:44] <capitalthree> fry: anyways
at the end of the day, when I'm dealing with the needs of minecraft
modding and calling a bunch of java code, kotlin just saves me a
lot more keystrokes
L411[08:03:49] <capitalthree> than scala
would I think
L412[08:03:51] <capitalthree> I could be
wrong
L413[08:04:16] <fry> comparing keystrokes
is obviously in fabour of kotlin
L414[08:04:19] <capitalthree> see the
problem I have is I still don't understand what higher kinded types
are >_> I think
L415[08:04:24] <fry> since you're using
the ide by the same people :P
L416[08:04:34] <capitalthree> haha. ok I
should say saving bytes
L417[08:04:42] <capitalthree> because to
be fair to jetbrains, it's not like they neuter their support for
other languages
L418[08:04:46] <capitalthree> it saves you
a lot of keystrokes either way
L419[08:05:11] <MWisBest> capitalthree: I
don't see a compelling reason to use anything other than Java for
the JVM considering I don't even like anything JVM in the first
place
L420[08:05:21] <fry> thing is, with scala
you have a lot of room to grow as a developer, and you can learn
about things like higher-kinded types and implicit parameters
eventually :P
L421[08:05:25] <capitalthree> anyways fry
I hope you don't think I'm trying to convince you kotlin is a
better choice than scala. I mean personally I lean slightly towards
it, *for minecraft modding*, but scala is great and I have no issue
with it
L422[08:05:32] <fry> with kotling you're
basically on the java level :P
L423[08:05:36] <fry> *kotlin
L424[08:06:01] <fry> and that ceiling is
mainly what makes me sad
L425[08:06:16] <fry> since nobody will
switch from kotlin to scala
L426[08:06:21] <capitalthree> fry: well I
googled and I successfully found kotlin code I don't
understand
L427[08:06:24] <capitalthree> something
something monads
L428[08:06:44] <capitalthree> I don't
think it's true that nobody will switch from kotlin to scala,
either, I think it's a great stepping stone
L429[08:07:22] <capitalthree> because you
get to learn that stuff that is more immediately useful and easier
to understand, like functional-style chaining of immutable stuff,
higher order functions, etc
L430[08:07:22] <MWisBest> capitalthree:
the other thing is I don't trust other languages to stick around
for the JVM. It's an irrational worry, yes, but Java will always be
there for the JVM
L431[08:07:50] <capitalthree> MWisBest: if
you don't like the only jvm language you know, isn't that a good
reason *to* try other ones?
L432[08:07:56] <Ivorius> kotlin has
monads?
L433[08:07:57] <capitalthree> and yes
that's an irrational worry
L434[08:08:11] <capitalthree> Ivorius: if
you make them yourself I guess. I am confused anyways
L435[08:08:14] <capitalthree> how awful is
my code? :P
L436[08:08:29] <MWisBest> capitalthree: I
don't mind Java the language. It works nicely enough for Android
where I'm more familiar with it.
L437[08:08:43] <capitalthree> I want to
learn how to apply kotlin on android too
L438[08:08:45] <Ivorius> Eh, I still think
Kotlin is basically java with less boilerplate
L439[08:08:52] <Ivorius> Which is alright
since Java has far too much
L440[08:08:56] <capitalthree> there is
actually a good reason not to use scala on android... android
devices are ram-limited and the scala library is *big*
L441[08:09:03] <PaleoCrafter> Ivorius, not
in the type class sense, you'd have to implement a Monad interface
yourself
L442[08:09:09] <fry> looks like there's no
higher-kinded types in kotlin
L443[08:09:14] <fry> that was hard to
google :P
L444[08:09:19] <capitalthree> Ivorius:
yeah, java with less boilerplate is a good description
L445[08:09:34] <capitalthree> Ivorius: it
has a lot of syntactic sugar, and then a little bit of actual
semantic improvements
L446[08:09:35] <MWisBest> capitalthree:
Android devices are only RAM limited because of all the crappy code
app developers write.
L447[08:09:41] <fry> scala library is
shrinking geometrically with each release :P
L448[08:09:52] <MWisBest> Android's
profiling tools are incredible but no developers use them
apparently
L449[08:09:53] <capitalthree> fry:
awesome! I did not know that and that's really encouraging
L450[08:10:11] <capitalthree> fry: I
really hope you don't think I'm not all for scala's future. I
wouldn't consider replacing scala with kotlin for web dev for
example
L451[08:10:31] <PaleoCrafter> Dotty
ftw!
L452[08:11:13] <fry> kotlin is good if you
want something that fixes top 10 obvious flaws of java today
L453[08:11:21] <capitalthree>
EXACTLY
L454[08:11:23] <fry> but I'm not sure how
long that will be true
L455[08:11:23]
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L456[08:11:35] <fry> and how well it will
be able to evolve
L457[08:11:35] <capitalthree> and for
everyone who's not going to jump to scala anyways, why shouldn't
they consider kotlin over java?
L458[08:11:40] <Ivorius> capitalthree:
Where's the convert to scala function
L459[08:11:42] <Ivorius> I want to
compare
L460[08:11:54] <gigaherz|work> I wonder
why's it taking so long for java to get null-propagation
L461[08:11:55] <capitalthree> Ivorius: I'm
not sure if it can convert between kotlin and scala
L462[08:12:00] <capitalthree> Ivorius: do
you want to see my other mod in scala?
L463[08:12:09] <PaleoCrafter> and you have
to have the Scala plugin installed
L464[08:12:12] <PaleoCrafter> obviously
xD
L465[08:12:19] <fry> gigaherz|work: nulls
+ generics = unsoundness
L466[08:12:33] <Ivorius> Nah my code is
java
L468[08:12:58] <capitalthree> Ivorius:
don't machine-convert java to kotlin or scala to use as a
representative example of either language.
L469[08:13:01] <capitalthree>
please.
L470[08:13:18] <PaleoCrafter> fry, isn't
Java's type system unsound anyways?
L471[08:13:30] <fry> it's good enough
:P
L472[08:13:30] <capitalthree> Ivorius: btw
if you have any comments on my code in any way, not just the nature
of kotlin, I'm still very new to modding :P
L473[08:14:04] <Ivorius> Eh, I'm not here
for an in-depth review :P
L475[08:14:07] <Ivorius> I just want a
quick look
L476[08:14:09] <capitalthree> here's my
scala one
L477[08:14:21] <capitalthree> Ivorius:
yeah that's fair, I don't expect one, but just in case :P
L478[08:14:23] <PaleoCrafter> Dotty's
sound, right?
L479[08:14:36] <capitalthree> if you see
something that jumps out at you as crazy, don't be afraid of
offending me
L480[08:14:39] <fry> core is
L481[08:14:51] ⇦
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L482[08:14:54] <fry> not sure how nulls
are handled in the formalism
L483[08:14:58] <Ivorius> fry: Isn't
there
L484[08:15:04] <Ivorius> Weird
L485[08:15:21] <fry> you may need scala
plugin installed
L486[08:15:50] ⇦
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L487[08:16:02] <capitalthree> I'm guessing
if fry saw my scala code he'd be disappointed :P
L488[08:16:15] <capitalthree> I don't use
any higher kinded types in my minecraft server backup mod!
L490[08:17:34]
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L491[08:17:49] <Ivorius> You have a
mod?
L492[08:17:57] <PaleoCrafter> for 1.7.10
:PO
L493[08:18:06] <PaleoCrafter> update it
already, fry!
L494[08:18:14] <PaleoCrafter> it was
gewd
L495[08:18:31] <fry> eh, I might
L496[08:18:46] <Ivorius> I get the notion
of unescaped strings but
L497[08:18:52] <Ivorius>
sets.setComment("""
L498[08:18:52] <Ivorius> Sets of blocks
that move together (multiblock structures) (ADVANCED)
L499[08:18:52] <Ivorius>
""")
L500[08:18:52] <Ivorius> looks weird with
indentations
L501[08:19:01] <capitalthree> fry: ah ok,
none of that seemed too out of the ordinary to me!
L502[08:19:28] <fry> but I only use 1
null, for the proxy field, while you use 4 :P
L503[08:20:26] <capitalthree> lol you're
right
L504[08:20:30] <capitalthree> we use them
for the same reasons though basically :P
L505[08:20:59] ***
manmaed[away] is now known as manmaed
L506[08:21:02] <fry> also, no while loops
in my code :P
L507[08:21:12] <fry> generally, we use
very different styles
L508[08:21:29] <capitalthree> hehe those
while loops were added in the most recent release
L509[08:21:44] <capitalthree> I didn't
have them before I decided to hijack the server console to prompt
for a backup directory
L510[08:22:00] <fry> does kotlin at least
have {} imports? :P
L511[08:22:02] <capitalthree> I'm sure you
know some sexier FP way to write that anyways though
L512[08:22:16] <capitalthree> as in,
import anywhere and not just at the top? yeah of course
L513[08:22:28] <fry> import
scala.collection.mutable.{ ArrayBuffer, Map => MMap }
L514[08:22:31] <fry> those ones :P
L515[08:22:34] <capitalthree> ohh
L516[08:22:37] <capitalthree> I
think
L517[08:22:41] <capitalthree> I
forgot
L518[08:22:47] <capitalthree> I don't ever
write my own import lines xD
L519[08:23:09] <fry> yup, that's what
happens when IDE does too much
L520[08:23:12] <gigaherz|work> I assume
the => thing aliases the type name?
L521[08:23:27] <fry> if there's code that
you've "written" but never read, there's something very
wrong :P
L522[08:23:28] <capitalthree> fry: well
what happens is that chumps like me are able to make minecraft mods
exist
L523[08:23:31] <capitalthree> it's not all
bad!
L524[08:23:57] <fry> gigaherz|work: yup,
rename, to resolve local conflicts
L525[08:24:00] <gigaherz|work> so like
C#'s "using Blah = Something;"
L526[08:24:11] <capitalthree> calling
import lines "code" is kind of iffy anyways
L527[08:24:17] <capitalthree> they are
just namespace mappings, that's it
L528[08:24:30] <capitalthree> unless I'm
using my import lines to deceptively rename things, they're not
that exciting
L529[08:24:37] <fry> namespace management
is pretty much what java is for
L530[08:24:44] <fry> and the whole jvm
ecosystem
L531[08:24:52] <capitalthree> and that's a
big part of its success I think
L533[08:25:07] <capitalthree> actually
successfully making a non-shit way for disparate code to
coexist
L534[08:25:35] <capitalthree> it's not
that I never read my import lines, btw
L535[08:25:47] <capitalthree> I always
read them to see if any of them have the grey underline squiggles
of "not used" :P
L536[08:25:48] <fry> looks like you can
rename using "as"
L537[08:26:06] <capitalthree> usually
after some coding, I have like 20 extra import lines to remove,
because of all the stuff that got added while I was fumbling
around
L538[08:26:14] <fry> but there's no
grouped imports
L539[08:26:22] <capitalthree> yeah I guess
not, sorry
L540[08:26:26] <capitalthree> kotlin
sucks, keep using scala
L541[08:26:33] <capitalthree> I mean
seriously, I already know scala is better
L542[08:26:35] <fry> it has been decided.
:D
L543[08:26:45] <capitalthree> I just find
kotlin convenient when directly calling a bunch of java code
L544[08:27:06] <capitalthree> another
thing is scala's library rewrites everything. your collections
aren't java collections, etc
L545[08:27:14] <capitalthree> so there's
just less converting
L546[08:27:21] <capitalthree> either that
or you just write scala but not really using the scala api as
much
L547[08:27:32] <capitalthree> I dunno, it
could just be that I suck
L548[08:27:44] <capitalthree> I have a mod
in scala, and it's by no means a pain to develop, I certainly
prefer it over java, and it's a mod I'm committed to
L549[08:27:55] <capitalthree> so I'll keep
seeing how my opinions evolve as I learn modding better
L550[08:28:10] <capitalthree> I gotta go
to bed o/ thanks for chatting fry
L551[08:28:23] <capitalthree> I think we
largely agree, since you did admit that kotlin is nicer than java
:P
L552[08:28:24] <Ivorius> Modding is just
working with an API that the API doesn't want you to use
L553[08:28:34] <capitalthree> hehe
yep
L554[08:28:36] <Ivorius> So you use
reflection
L555[08:28:37] <Ivorius> The end
L556[08:28:49] <capitalthree> while I work
on lingering loot hardcore mode features, like half the work is
just making my FakePlayer more faker
L557[08:28:54] <capitalthree> so stuff
doesn't crash
L558[08:29:07] <fry> more faker or less
faker? :D
L559[08:29:15] <capitalthree> whichever
one doesn't crash
L561[08:29:21] <capitalthree> right now my
fake player is always sneaking!
L562[08:29:25] <gigaherz|work>
better-faked
L563[08:29:25] <gigaherz|work> ;P
L564[08:29:27] <capitalthree> that way it
won't permanently open chests that then never close :P
L565[08:29:37] <capitalthree>
gigaherz|work: yeah but the class is called FakerPlayer
L567[08:29:57] <capitalthree> this should
be good for a laugh
L568[08:29:57] <gigaherz|work> so wait,
how does a fake player open chests?
L570[08:30:06] <gigaherz|work> I mean does
it pretend to open a gui?
L571[08:30:20] <Ivorius> What I took from
all of this nonsense: I hate boilerplate
L572[08:30:35] <Ivorius> So now I found
the advanced java folding plugin
L574[08:30:42] <Ivorius> And I'm half
happy :D
L575[08:31:59] <fry> capitalthree: you're
using if statements without braces, you should feel bad :P
L576[08:32:12] <capitalthree> fry: ah ok.
I just looked it up... apparently the other one kotlin has that
goes hand in hand with the elvis operator, is called the safe
navigation operator
L577[08:32:29] <capitalthree> which I
still don't think is possible in scala
L578[08:32:44] <capitalthree> and as for
that elvis operator implementation you linked, it only works if
your chain ends with something guaranteed to not be null
L580[08:32:53] <capitalthree> in kotlin, I
can still do an elvis operator chain with a nullable result
L581[08:33:35] <capitalthree> Ivorius:
jetbrains' folding is excellent
L582[08:33:47] <capitalthree> it's amazing
how many ways their ide bends over backwards to pretend java's as
clean as kotlin :P
L583[08:33:49] <Ivorius> The fuck
man
L584[08:33:52] <fry> don't see why it
won't work with a nullable result
L585[08:33:55] <Ivorius> My code looks a
bit like Kotlin now
L586[08:34:30] <capitalthree> Ivorius:
yeah, because jetbrains made java code folding first, designed it
to show what they thought was important, and then also designed a
programming language to only make you type what they thought was
important :P
L587[08:36:26] <capitalthree> fry: because
that implementation of the elvis operator just works by using a
right-associative operator that desugars to
"defaultcase".?:(check)
L588[08:36:48] <capitalthree> unless I'm
mistaken about scala, it will still NPE if defaultcase is
null
L589[08:37:28] ⇦
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L590[08:37:42] <fry> it'll return
null
L591[08:37:49] <fry> which is the
intention, is it not?
L592[08:37:57] <capitalthree> I said if
defaultcase is null, not check
L593[08:38:10] <capitalthree> or maybe you
understood that
L594[08:38:15] <capitalthree> I guess I'd
have to test it
L595[08:38:39] <capitalthree> as for the
safe dereference operator you linked, you didn't refer to a
specific example, but the only one I see that's relevant uses
exception handling
L596[08:38:42] <capitalthree> so that's
pretty gross :P
L597[08:38:43] <fry> ah, it desugars to
new{..}.?:(check)
L598[08:39:01] <fry> so the caller isn't
null, the field in the caller is
L599[08:39:06] <capitalthree> this seems
like it *has* to have more jvm overhead than kotlin extension
functions btw
L600[08:39:30] <capitalthree> I
dunno
L601[08:39:41] <capitalthree> ok I see in
that case fair enough
L602[08:39:58] <capitalthree> still that's
the easy part. safe dereference seems like it'd need to be built
into the language to work well
L603[08:40:12] <fry> one slightly lower
returns Option, and doesn't throwanything :P
L604[08:40:23] <capitalthree> and scala's
type system, at the end of the day, doesn't care about nullability,
so even though you *can* use null you won't get enforcement
help
L605[08:40:33] <capitalthree> fry: yeah
the one with Option obviously doesn't count
L606[08:40:38] <capitalthree> that's not
what we're talking about
L607[08:40:44] <fry> it actually does, not
ideally though
L608[08:40:50] <fry> you can have
non-nullable types
L609[08:41:07] <capitalthree> oh wait it
just returns Option
L610[08:41:22] <Ivorius> I'm beginning to
think they wrote the advanced folding thing to get people to use
Kotlin
L612[08:41:32] <fry> you can always add
.getOrElse(null) to that
L613[08:41:50] <capitalthree> Ivorius:
well I've been an intellij user for a while and I can tell you that
they were doing that before they launched kotlin
L614[08:41:57] <capitalthree> I really do
think you have the cause-and-effect backwards
L615[08:42:05] <capitalthree> not
everything they do to make java nice is to push kotlin
L616[08:42:06] <fry> Ivorius: kotlin
basically is the advanced folding of java + some of the static
checks that idea uses :P
L617[08:42:12] <capitalthree> kotlin is
the culimination of everything they do to make java nice
L619[08:42:37] <Ivorius> Isn't kotlin like
years old
L620[08:42:40] <capitalthree> extension
functions are sweet though
L621[08:42:51] <Ivorius> They aren't, we
covered that already :P
L622[08:43:07] <Ivorius> If the api
implements a method by the same name, the extension function is
forever useless
L623[08:43:10] <Ivorius> And you don't
even get warned
L624[08:43:20] <Ivorius> That's just
dumb
L625[08:43:21] <capitalthree> you can glue
a method onto the nullable form of a type, so that you can then
call that method on nullable values in a way that looks like an
unsafe call but is really just calling a function and passing it
null
L626[08:43:44] <capitalthree> oh?
L627[08:43:50] <capitalthree> what do you
mean you don't get warned
L628[08:43:52] <PaleoCrafter> that
actually happened to me >.>
L629[08:43:55] <capitalthree> there is
definitely a warning if you shadow things
L630[08:44:03] <PaleoCrafter> I didn't see
one
L631[08:44:10] <capitalthree> luckily
nobody names shit like I do
L632[08:44:23] <Ivorius> do it the cocoa
way
L633[08:44:35] <Ivorius> Name all your
extension methods nsSomeMethod
L634[08:44:40] <Ivorius> Then you're
safe
L635[08:44:51] <capitalthree> I guess what
would be nice is if it just used a different symbol besides . to
call extension functions
L636[08:44:54] <capitalthree> but too late
for them to do that
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L638[08:45:33] <capitalthree> ok goodnight
for reals, thank you all
L640[08:45:45] <capitalthree> this is
plenty to think about, and my kotlin mod is just gonna get bigger,
so I'll have to do the thinking :)
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L651[09:42:08] ***
PaleoCrafter is now known as PaleOff
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L660[10:21:12] <Hink> What method on 1.8
obtains the client's NetHandlerPlayClient?
L661[10:21:22] <Hink>
Minecraft#getConnection doesn't seem to be it.
L662[10:22:17] <ghz|afk>
getConnection()?
L663[10:22:31] <ghz|afk> !mh
Minecraft.getConnection
L664[10:22:38] <ghz|afk> ah no
L665[10:22:52] <ghz|afk> !mh
Minecraft.getNetHandler
L666[10:23:01] <Hink>
Minecraft.getMinecraft().getNetHandler()
L668[10:23:04] <ghz|afk> yeah
getNetHandler ;P
L669[10:25:25]
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L670[10:25:39] <Shambling> so... in
1.11.2, did forge or something change it so that air no longer has
a isreplaceable property?
L671[10:26:12] <ghz|afk> wat?
L672[10:26:25] <Shambling> let me copy and
paste the line , its... not too long
L673[10:26:47] <Shambling> I needed to add
the line where it doesn't check against air in the second
check
L674[10:26:48] <Shambling> if
(state2.getBlock() == Blocks.AIR || (state2.getBlock() !=
Blocks.AIR && state2.getBlock().isReplaceable(world,
top)))
L675[10:27:09] <ghz|afk> wat
L676[10:27:10] <Shambling> without the !=
blocks.air, getblock().isreplaceable causes a crash
L677[10:27:39] <ghz|afk> BlockAir returns
true from isReplaceable
L678[10:28:06] <Shambling> I would have
thought that as well
L679[10:28:13] <Shambling> but without
that check in there, it crashes
L680[10:28:15] <Shambling> so
*shrug*
L681[10:28:55] <Shambling> oops it died
anyways
L682[10:29:27] <Shambling> elucent must
not have had all the proper code in that git page, because his jar
runs fine, but compiling from the old commit crashes
L683[10:29:42] <Shambling> oh well, I
don't need gravel ore with working sound in 1.112. :P
L684[10:31:20] <Shambling> ah its
snow
L685[10:35:55] ***
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L686[10:46:04] <Shambling> its trying to
get layers from air
L687[10:47:00] <Shambling> that doesn't
make any sense though, as the layers property shouldn't be called
on air
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L690[10:51:19] <Shambling> looked like
maybe a facing issue, resolved and recompiling.
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L692[10:55:07] <Shambling> and fixed,
thanks for steering me away from a bad guess
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L696[11:00:39] <SatanicSanta>
!latest
L698[11:02:48] <ghz|afk> how are you using
it?
L699[11:03:30] <ryantheleach> java -Xms1G
-Xmx2G -jar forge-1.12-14.21.1.2397-universal.jar, from batch file,
from Z:\
L701[11:04:31] <ghz|afk> and the
minecraftserver jar is next to it?
L702[11:04:40] <ryantheleach> as shown in
screenshot
L703[11:04:49] <ryantheleach> but
yes
L704[11:09:24] <ghz|afk> hmm I used the
installer to prepare a server folder, and it worked jsut fine --
after setting the eula.txt to true
L705[11:09:51] <ryantheleach> lets give
that a shot, maybe it's an obtuse error message
L706[11:10:34] <ghz|afk> note: without
mods
L707[11:10:34] <ryantheleach> Yeah,
continues now.
L708[11:10:42] <ryantheleach> still
errors, but it continues
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L710[11:11:14] <tterrag> fry: is it ever
valid for ItemOverridesList.handleItemState to be given a null
stack? (1.12)
L712[11:11:46] <tterrag> I want to blame
CCL but his code there is pretty transparent
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L725[12:00:24] <SatanicSanta> hm, I
cleanCache'd and tried to set it up from scratch and got Patching
failed: minecraft\net\minecraft\command\EntitySelector.java Hunk 1
failed! Cannot find hunk target
L726[12:01:18] <SatanicSanta> along w
several other hunks but the output is long as fuck
L727[12:02:20] <ghz|afk> updating to
1.12?
L728[12:02:24] <SatanicSanta> 1.11
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L733[12:35:11] <ScottehBoeh> can I check
that my URLConnection actually exists? (when downloading a
file)
L734[12:35:18] <ScottehBoeh> Any methods
that return null?
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L739[12:46:22] <ScottehBoeh> Ach nevermind
I've got it. Forgot my try catch
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L745[13:26:33] <Ordinastie> for some
reason, youtube suddenly decided to not show recommendations at the
top :x
L746[13:26:56] <ScottehBoeh> Is there a
Key/Input event?
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L748[13:27:08] <ScottehBoeh> I'm so
stupid. Nvm I found it
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L755[14:16:58] <Ordinastie> hum?
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L766[15:31:31] <c64cosmin> When I enter my
custom portal block I call for entityIn.changeDimension(...); I get
the exception on WorldServer.getDefaultTeleporter(); how can I bind
my WorldProvider with a teleporter
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L782[16:30:43] <ScottehBoeh> G'day
:D
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L824[18:21:09] <Elec0> nvm, I wasn't
initializing the models correctly. Figured it out
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L833[18:29:46] <capitalthree> is
TickEvent.RenderTickEvent.renderTickTime a time since the game
started, or since the last render tick, or something else?
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L872[22:23:43] <capitalthree> is there a
good way to get a reference to RenderItem or should I AT it?
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L874[22:25:42] <SatanicSanta>
Minecraft.getMinecraft().getRenderItem() or whatever is a thing
iirc
L875[22:29:48] <capitalthree>
SatanicSanta: thanks that worked!
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(~howtonotw@75-110-22-15.gvllcmtk01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) (Quit:
Pop!)
L889[23:21:41] <capitalthree> whoah I
stumbled into the line of code that drops an apple if Notch
dies
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L891[23:30:22] <kashike> lol
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