L13[04:38:38] <Althego> ;mission

L14[04:38:39] <LunchBot> You attempt to add a nuclear saltwater rocket to the game. For such a stupid idea, it works amazingly well.

L15[04:38:53] <Althego> hehe

L16[04:38:57] <Althego> it fits

L50[17:51:02] <funkenstein> ;mission

L51[17:51:03] <LunchBot> You watch a film about human stupidity and what monotonous food does to people that pretends to be hard science fiction. You start a fire without a spark and prove Bruce Springsteen wrong.

L65[19:44:41] <SporkWitch> i never noticed before, when doing EVA construction, it automatically lowers and raises the visor while the welder is going; very nice detail

L66[20:17:00] <SporkWitch> the colony is growing ^^ https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/577446265692880898/1043620853922934866/image.png

L67[20:19:40] <funkenstein> the flats are so...erm...flat

L68[20:19:48] <SporkWitch> makes them easy to build on, heh

L69[20:20:06] <SporkWitch> i'm almost dead centre of the middle of the greater flats heh

L70[20:21:55] <darsie> The flats are round.

L72[20:39:27] <umaxtu> are you using some sort of ground vehicle to rearrange things?

L73[20:40:45] <SporkWitch> not currently, i'm still fiddling with crane designs. Just been landing carefully and over-doing the fuel to allow for adjustments. The factory I did as a ground kit, which made it much easier, since it was just a large, heavy box to position, then i could rotate in 90° increments to get it lined up reasonably

L74[20:41:12] <SporkWitch> i wanted the factory first for faster builds and more storage.

L75[20:43:26] <packbart> I need to design a fuel tank rover to bring LH2/Oxidizer from the fuel farm to the launch site on Minmus

L76[20:43:44] <SporkWitch> MKS or stock?

L77[20:44:04] <packbart> Rational Resources and EL

L78[20:44:11] <SporkWitch> ah

L79[20:44:15] <SporkWitch> haven't used those

L80[20:44:30] <packbart> this one: https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/ksptf2.jpg

L81[20:44:44] <SporkWitch> in MKS I'd just use the logistics functionality, works in the background and saves the micromanaging

L82[20:45:00] <packbart> I plan to use BonVoyage to have the rover drive itself

L83[20:45:31] <SporkWitch> remember to adjust the load-in height, or things will explode

L84[20:45:43] <SporkWitch> i forgot about that and had to send a new rover :'(

L85[20:45:44] <umaxtu> you are using MKS and extraplanetary launchpads SporkWitch?

L86[20:46:01] <SporkWitch> MKS prefers Ground Construction, though it no longer bundles it it's still compatible

L87[20:46:31] <umaxtu> I'll check it out

L88[20:47:51] <SporkWitch> Ground Construction uses "DIY Kits," basically boxes that cover the majority of the cost and complex parts, weight a fair bit and scale in size (but smaller than the finished product). Once you've put it where you want it, you have an engineer go EVA and hit deploy. Over time it expands in size so that the box will fit around the finished construction.

L89[20:49:09] <SporkWitch> Next you use a workshop to finalize the construction, which takes material kits (these account for the mass of the finished thing) and it builds each component of the final product over time. Once done, you can transfer resources pre-launch, then hit launch and it spawns the finished construction into the world. It also makes autosaves prior to kraken-prone steps

L90[20:49:57] <SporkWitch> https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/154167-19-110-global-construction/

L91[20:50:48] <packbart> EL is better for precise placement and orientation. GC is very good at modifying existing vessels because it can deconstruct specific part-trees

L92[20:51:50] <SporkWitch> It's excellent for the ground stuff, but I prefer the new built-in with MKS for orbital construction. It uses a greater variety of components in the build process (spaceships aren't simple!) and then spawns the ship in directly a safe distance away, then you can use MKS logistics to transfer resources and either use a tug, probe core, or EVA to either dock or bring crew over to it

L93[20:51:58] <packbart> and I don't know if GC handles launch clamps like EL does and makes them level even in rolling terrain

L94[20:52:46] <packbart> yeah, today I learned that EL can use different resources if you want and even specify resources per part

L95[20:53:00] <SporkWitch> my preference for ships is orbital construction, so that's not really an issue. it's the base-building that GC makes work really well for me

L96[20:53:22] <packbart> I'm pretty fine with GC's split in MaterialKits and SpecializedParts (and the ration between them is determined by a part's number of modules vs mass)

L97[20:54:57] <SporkWitch> yeah, it's definitely a "good enough" solution, and while the native MKS construction mechanic makes for more complexity (since you need a greater variety of materials), it makes more sense that you'd need a variety of different things, and which of those things is determined by a mix of component price and tech tree placement (so "less complicated" gadgets might only need specialized parts,

L98[20:55:13] <SporkWitch> whereas a Kerbstein Engine will need all 5 or 6 types of materials)

L99[21:07:30] <packbart> ah, and this was what I was looking for: https://github.com/JadeOfMaar/sandbox/blob/master/ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads/Recipes2.cfg

L100[21:07:42] <packbart> special recipes for parts. not sure I'd go that far

L101[21:11:57] <SporkWitch> eh, if you think about it, it makes sense to further push it to when your colony is self-sufficient. Bringing out materials is all well and good when it's only a couple types, but when you need 6 different materials in varrying quantities, it gets annoying fast. This functionally serves as a soft gate on the most complex / advanced parts not being able to be built without an advanced colony that

L102[21:12:03] <SporkWitch> can produce the intermediate components itself

L109[21:56:09] <SporkWitch> grrr, the magnet on the crane doesn't actually work >_<

L110[21:56:39] <packbart> doesn't grab the aluminium structures?

L111[21:57:06] <SporkWitch> i'd have expected it to work on the construction kits, but it doesn't :(

L112[21:58:12] <SporkWitch> was trying to build something to move them around so i could build the kits themselves on-site and not have to fly them in.

L113[21:59:01] <SporkWitch> looks like i'll have to use stock robotics parts to build some kind of monstrosity with a docking port (since the countainers do have a built-in docking node)

L114[22:01:12] <Izaya> I tried building a ute to move my landers around on the Mun at one point but it wasn't heavy enough so it tipped whenever you loaded it up

L115[22:01:14] <Izaya> sadge

L116[22:02:19] <SporkWitch> yeah, this has always been the msot annoying aspect of doing ground stuff in KSP. I'm really hoping that KSP2 something more along the lines of a city-builder: place the thing where you want it, drive construction rover and materials over to it, build where chosen

L117[22:02:56] <Izaya> something something mars 3D printer

L118[22:03:15] <Izaya> tyracathea cylinders

L119[22:04:27] <SporkWitch> i'm just thinking about how to make it functional, fun, but still require you to build things to do the work. in the real world, you wouldn't be trying to move around a massive pre-built structure, you'd build it where you want it in the first place.

L120[22:06:15] <SporkWitch> So with my idea, you place things the way you do in a city-builder or RTS, but that's just the PLANNED build. Now you need a rover and/or kerbals with the construction equipment, and the materials nearby as well (presumably brought by another rover, so it can make multiple trips while construction proceeds)

L121[22:11:11] <SporkWitch> here's hoping the devs are thinking the same way i am heh

L123[22:15:11] <Izaya> Planetside Exploration Technologies has some neat wheel mounts

L124[22:15:30] <Izaya> nice for moving stuff around

L125[22:15:49] <SporkWitch> the issue with attaching wheels to it is the tendency of EVA construction of wheels to summon the kraken

L126[22:15:56] <Izaya> this is true

L127[22:16:13] <Izaya> EVA removal of them seems reasonably safe though, as long as you don't linger

L128[22:16:36] <SporkWitch> it literally makes rovers the hardest thing, since you can't realistically build them on-site without risking explosions (not to mention the inability to make minute adjustments to get alignments and symmetry right)

L129[22:17:00] <SporkWitch> I've exclusively landed rovers whole, just not worth the headache of doing otherwise

L130[22:17:06] <Izaya> reminds me I gotta give SimpleConstruction a proper go

L131[22:18:04] <SporkWitch> even though they can get big, building them on kerbin and then landing them where i want them isn't too bad, it just would be nice for it to be easier to build the kits on-site and easily move them where i want them.

L132[22:18:54] <SporkWitch> heck, i may just end up setting a flag, targeting it, recording the coordinates, then remove the flag and teleport it where i want it. end result is functionally the type of construction i described as my hope for KSP2

L133[22:19:12] <SporkWitch> i'd still have to bring a workshop and the construction materials there with a rover

L134[22:19:18] <Izaya> vent a tank of ore for "construction" costs

L135[22:19:24] <Izaya> balance™

L136[22:20:47] <SporkWitch> no, that's already covered in the building process itself. the ground factory, that boxy yellow building in my pic, builds kit boxes from material kits and specialized parts then pushes out the box. Teleport the box where i want it, then bring the truck over to it with the rest of the material kits

L137[22:21:04] <SporkWitch> I'll probably send a cargo rover to ferry additional materials to it, if it's outside logistics range

L138[22:21:59] <SporkWitch> the more I think about it, this fits better how i want construction to work, and will be a lot more fun in the end than struggling with the wonky physics, wheels, etc. of trying to build something that can move them. I'm doing all the construction on site, there's no logical reason you'd build a giant heavy thing NOT where it's intended to end up lol

L139[22:22:43] <SporkWitch> will still build some construction vehicles, because they contribute to increasing the weight limit for EVA construction

L140[22:23:31] <SporkWitch> (i've been making a habit of rearranging the lander components to add to the base storage, but sometimes that's a fairly heavy tank, especially if it had a lot of fuel left)