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L1[00:01:41] ⇦
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L2[00:02:06] <SporkWitch> looks like the
raptop has gone extinct
L3[00:04:27] ⇨
Joins: raptop
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L4[00:04:28]
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L5[00:09:46] <transhohmann> As opposed to
rapbottom?
L6[00:10:09] <transhohmann> 2700-odd delta v
and in a lovely orbit
L7[00:11:45] <raptop> consider: a laptop
owned and operated by velociraptors, with a raptor-based operating
system
L8[00:12:30] <transhohmann> Splendid
L9[00:15:45] <transhohmann> set for some
science and happy passengers
L11[00:17:41] <raptop> Izaya: spinning at
15k rpm is how the gyros work, obviously
L12[00:17:49] <Izaya> of course
L13[00:18:03] <transhohmann>
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
L14[00:18:23] <transhohmann> I forgot to
put the tourists on the ship.
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L16[00:19:02] <raptop> oops
L17[00:19:19] <transhohmann> indeed.
L18[00:19:35] <transhohmann> good for
endorphins.
L19[00:20:16] ⇦
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(~toni@dslb-178-005-226-049.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
(oops))
L20[00:23:48] <Izaya> love me some
tourist-free tourism
L21[00:36:09] <raptop> Apropos nothing,
have you seen darsie's typical tourist / space station
setups?
L22[00:36:16] <raptop> (bring your own
oxygen)
L23[00:41:26] <darsie> :)
L24[00:41:27] <darsie> gn
L25[00:42:40] <raptop> \o
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L29[00:53:31] <transhohmann> I'm picturing
rows of external command seats (can't remember the part name) under
a fairing
L30[00:57:31] <raptop> pretty much
L31[00:57:53] <raptop> Though often it'll
be something like the seats are attached to a small fuel tank and a
48-7S spark
L32[01:11:00] <transhohmann> well
L33[01:11:16] <transhohmann> it is
lightweight
L34[01:12:07] <transhohmann> lovely science
from the mun, and 1258 dv to spare
L35[01:14:05] <raptop> yay
L36[01:14:36] <SporkWitch> that's more than
spare, that's downright wasteful lol. leave that thing in orbit and
grab it later lol'
L37[01:14:58] <raptop> I mean, it's enough
for a short hop
L38[01:15:29] <SporkWitch> it's probably
enough to add a stop at minmus and come back, if you wait for a
good window
L39[01:17:03] <SporkWitch> still filling in
some holes in my mods. Starting an interstellar+MKS playthrough,
but still struggling to figure out the progression path to setting
up a colony with on-site production
L40[01:20:31] <transhohmann> awesome
L41[01:21:12] <transhohmann> yes, it was
wasteful, but that dv barely saved me from death upon reentry
L42[01:21:39] <transhohmann> 4000m/s at
35km
L43[01:22:02] <SporkWitch> reentry heating
in stock isn't bad, but definitely want a heat shield if you aren't
circularizing in LKO before deorbiting, heh
L44[01:22:28] <SporkWitch> alternatively,
going shallow and aerobraking over a few orbits
L45[01:22:56] <transhohmann> i was
impatient after my passenger-free delay flight
L46[01:22:57] <SporkWitch> i had one of my
spaceplanes just barely manage it with 4 passes and no fuel
left
L47[01:23:21] <transhohmann> always
fun
L48[01:23:28] <SporkWitch> (that was
returning from minmus)
L49[01:23:39] <transhohmann> speaking
of
L50[01:23:44] <SporkWitch> interplanetary,
heat shields are NOT optional heh
L51[01:24:07] <transhohmann> I'm fine with
getting to the mun, but minmus evades me
L52[01:24:32] <transhohmann> I'm always
going too fast
L53[01:24:41] <SporkWitch> minmus is
actually easier than the mun for landings, due to the lower
gravity. the main thing is that it's on an inclined orbit.
L54[01:25:01] <transhohmann> the incline is
fine
L55[01:25:03] <transhohmann> rhyme
L56[01:25:10] <SporkWitch> it's actually
less dV to go to minmus, land, and come back, compared to the
mun.
L57[01:25:31] <SporkWitch> if you're coming
in too fast, it sounds like you're not waiting for a good transfer
window
L58[01:25:31] <transhohmann> but it's like
reverse tylo, it doesn't want to grab you
L59[01:26:04] <transhohmann> I'm a noob,
frankly, I don't know much about windows
L60[01:26:09] <SporkWitch> i've only gone
to eve and duna, haven't gone to tylo
L61[01:26:45] <SporkWitch> so with the mun
and minmus, it's relatively easy. you want somewhere around a 60°
angle between your maneuver node and minmus
L62[01:27:30] <transhohmann> I ended up on
a path to jool whilst attempting to get to duna (sandbox, not there
yet in career), due to some unplanned gravity assists
L63[01:27:48] <transhohmann> then crashed
into tylo whilst warping
L64[01:27:54] <SporkWitch> you can also use
the stock maneuver planner once you're in a circular orbit with
aligned inclination. don't use the one it gives you, it's WAY too
picky and will always make you wait ridiculuos numbers of orbits,
but by looking at it, you can see a relatively good positioning,
and build your own at an earlier time
L65[01:28:26] <transhohmann> hte one it
gives me?
L66[01:28:50] <SporkWitch> i've started
using astrogator for convenience. i still make a point of plotting
my first trip manually, as a way of keeping myself honest, but once
i've done it once, i don't see an issue with using astrogator to do
the work for me
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L68[01:29:52] <SporkWitch> so the stock
maneuver planner has options for transfer windows and can set an
alarm and give you a burn for it. it's generally really far in the
future, to save negligible dV or not even be an ideal window, but
it WILL let you see the relationship between the maneuver and the
target, so you can build your own at a better time
L69[01:30:41] <SporkWitch> astrogator does
the same, but it's much better at it, but for that reason, i make a
point of doing my first trip to a new target without it, so it
doesn't feel cheaty
L70[01:30:56] <transhohmann> Now I have a
mental image of an alligator in a spacesuit
L71[01:30:58] <SporkWitch> (that said I'll
usually tweak astrogator's maneuver as well to better suit what i
want)
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L73[01:31:45] <transhohmann> good to know,
how do I access that function for the stock maneuver planner
L74[01:31:49] <SporkWitch> honestly didn't
even occur to me to read it that way, but i also already knew the
term 'astrogation" and "astrogator" (literally just
navigation and navigator, but for space)
L75[01:32:03] <SporkWitch> it's the button
on the toolbar that has the maneuver symbol
L76[01:32:25] <transhohmann> As did I, but
I'm a punchline processor
L77[01:32:32] <SporkWitch> it requires you
to be on a stable, relatively circular orbit
L78[01:33:13] <SporkWitch> that's another
reason astrogator is nice, as it will calculate transfer windows
even if you're on the ground or in the tracking station, so you can
timewarp to a good transfer window THEN launch
L79[01:34:28] <transhohmann> heck
yeah
L80[01:34:33] <transhohmann> thanks
L81[01:35:13] <XXCoder> ok
L82[01:35:20] <XXCoder> erm wrong
window
L83[01:42:21] <transhohmann> ahh the
strange craft i build to complete missions
L84[01:42:32] <SporkWitch> 'tis the kerbal
way
L85[01:43:25] <transhohmann> "test
3.75m heat shield at 47,00m" I have only the smallest fuel
tanks
L86[01:43:32] <transhohmann> so, mushroom
rocket
L87[01:43:43] <transhohmann> *47,000m
L88[01:43:44] <SporkWitch> test missions
always result in crazy builds lol
L89[01:43:51] <transhohmann> I love
it
L90[01:44:34] <SporkWitch> having a small
SSTO spaceplane can be handy for those, since it makes it
relatively easy and inexpensive to get to the testing requirements,
test, and return
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L92[01:45:27] <SporkWitch> note also: you
can adjust thrust and fuel on SRBs in the hangar, so you can set
them to 0.1 thrust and 0.1 fuel, further reducing costs and not
risking the craft (and letting you recover the booster for even
more back)
L93[01:46:57] <transhohmann> I did make a
jet that can fly for 3 hours IRL time and turn on a very large
dime
L94[01:47:12] <transhohmann> 8 tons
total
L95[01:48:01] <SporkWitch> planes are cool
if patient. better to make a suborbital. Suborbital hops are
awesome compromises on time vs fuel.
L96[01:48:07] <transhohmann> I have
definitely used a booster, empty, as the body of a plane
L97[01:48:35] <SporkWitch> helicopters are
pretty much totally non-viable, at least with stock physics.
L98[01:48:52] <transhohmann> I made it for
the temperature tests below 16,000 m
L99[01:49:16] <SporkWitch> i'm torn on
whether to make a go with FAR or not. It should make aircraft
behave properly, but it'll also mean significantly increasing the
challenge of making craft to leave the atmosphere, due to the much
more realistic aerodynamics
L100[01:49:22] <transhohmann> jsut
scooting along at 10km and 570m/s
L101[01:49:33] <transhohmann> FAR?
L102[01:49:53] <transhohmann> fancy
aerodymanics/
L103[01:50:02] <transhohmann> and I mean
manic
L104[01:50:18] <SporkWitch> Faram
Aerospace. It overhauls the aerodynamics to be much more realistic,
even to the point of modeling how aerodynamics change between
subsonic, supersonic, and hypersonic speeds
L105[01:50:37] <transhohmann> !
L106[01:50:40] <SporkWitch> (put simply:
you better build it right, or aerodynamic forces WILL tear it apart
lol)
L107[01:51:18] <transhohmann> yessss
L108[01:51:43] <SporkWitch> kind of like
ArmA, a LOT of mods are built around making the game MORE complex
and realistic lol
L109[01:52:45] <SporkWitch> for example
the Interstellar mod I just started messing with. It doesn't simply
add new, better engines, it's a massive overhaul to whole
production chains, REQUIRING resources gathered in-game to fuel
them, can't just buy it
L110[01:54:27] <SporkWitch> relatively
simple life support (generic rations, rather than having to mess
with oxygen, co2, food, AND water), a homesickness mechanic (so you
can't have endless missions, without a proper base that's
sufficiently built up). All together, the idea is that as you
slowly build up your infrastructure, you can actually start
building off-planet, not just build on kerbin and then send, maybe
refuel.
L111[01:55:01] <SporkWitch> And it scales
up to the point of other solar systems, as well. Basically
everything I'm hoping for with KSP2, though hopefully with better
explanation lol
L112[01:56:39] <SporkWitch> as cool as all
that stuff is, I definitely advise playing mostly stock, no parts
mods or extra systems, only quality of life mods, until you've at
least made it to duna and have completed the stock tech tree. The
core game is just so good, and the stuff i'm messing with right now
is honestly outright overwhelming, don't want to burn yourself out
with too much, too fast.
L113[02:00:19] <SporkWitch> transhohmann:
one other newbie tip, avoid the temptation to use mobile labs.
They're ridiculously OP and functionally work out to infinite
science, just gotta time warp. You can literally max the tech tree
without ever leaving Low Kerbin Orbit, which clearly defeats the
point. They do have one big, and reasonable, benefit, and that's
applying kerbal experience without returning to the KSC, but
L114[02:01:37] <SporkWitch> you can
address that by modifying the difficulty settings, as there's a
checkbox to immediately apply XP (so, for example, send a kerbal to
a munar flyby for the first time and do an EVA, that's enough XP to
hit one star, so you can use the prograde/retrograde hold options
on a pilot on the return, while you couldn't on the way out;
without that setting, you'd either need a lab to level up, or
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L116[02:01:44] <SporkWitch> return to the
KSC to get the levelup)
L117[02:02:15] <transhohmann> noted
L118[02:02:51] <SporkWitch> the
EVA-deployed science from Breaking Ground is reasonable, though,
since it maxes out at a reasonable amount of science per biome, and
some of them require you to do things (like slamming something into
the planet near the sensor, for the seismograph). It's extra
science, but no INFINITE science
L119[02:05:22] <SporkWitch> actually,
science labs do have one other benefit: they can reset experiments
without an EVA, at the cost of a ridiculous amount of electricity.
So there are still reasons to use them, but I recommend against
using their 'research' function, since that just produces
ridiculous amounts of science for almost nothing
L120[02:06:23] <SporkWitch> (i don't think
i'm exagerrating when I say that a 20 science experiment, converted
to data for the lab and researched, will come out to 200 science...
it's just insane)
L121[02:20:11] <transhohmann> I can't seem
to power my antenna enough to transmit data
L122[02:20:21] <transhohmann> yet I have 8
cpacitors
L123[02:21:09] <transhohmann> also
whaaat
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L132[04:53:53] <transhohmann> still can't
catch that window
L133[04:54:29] <transhohmann> 1700-2200m/s
and 37-47km
L134[04:54:33] <transhohmann> sounds
easy
L135[04:54:39] <transhohmann> keep missing
it
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L137[05:11:04] <transhohmann> I suspect I
am being foolish
L138[05:11:22] <transhohmann> I have found
myself in orbit entirely by accident, twice
L139[05:23:44] <SporkWitch> transhohmann:
right click the antenna and click the button that says
"require complete." It gives a warning message, but it's
not real. Default, when you run out of power, it just aborts and
the data is left on the device. Allow partial makes it save
transmission progress and send another piece when enough power is
recharged, repeating until it completes
L140[05:24:23] <transhohmann> sweet
L141[05:24:27] <transhohmann> thanks
L142[05:27:34] <transhohmann> I just met
every requirement for testing the heat shield yet it does not say
it is complete, nor will it acknowledge that I ran the test
L143[05:28:10] <SporkWitch> transhohmann:
right click the heat shield and see if it has a "test"
button; some of those contracts add one
L144[05:28:19] <transhohmann> yes
L145[05:28:29] <transhohmann> I clicked
the "run test" button
L146[05:28:34] <transhohmann> nothing
happened
L147[05:28:49] <transhohmann> though I was
within the altitude and speed requirements
L148[05:29:10] <transhohmann> glitch
perhaps? I have had the game open for a fair bit
L149[05:29:43] <SporkWitch> revert to
launch, try again, make sure you hit all the conditions when you
click it. they can sometimes be picky. if it doesn't work again,
get a screenshot showing all the relevant numbers, and submit a bug
report
L150[05:31:09] <transhohmann> no worries,
it worked upon reentry but not on the way up for some reason'
L152[05:31:51] <SporkWitch> transhohmann:
what was the EXACT wording of the contract?
L153[05:31:51] <transhohmann> thanks
L154[05:33:57] <transhohmann> test heat
shield(3.75m) in flight over kerbin; alt 37,000m to 47,00m, spd
1790m/s to 2200m/s
L155[05:36:45] <SporkWitch> hmmm... are
you sure ALL those conditions were met at the time? by the actual
numbers, not a check in the contract display. i was thinking iwas a
"test on suborbital" one; you can be on a suborbital
trajectory, but it doesn't actually count until you leave the
atmosphere AND have a periapsis that's below the atmosphere.
L156[05:37:26] <SporkWitch> it'll make it
go green once a condition is met, but doens't always update if it's
no longer met
L157[05:37:46] <SporkWitch> but for the
test itself, it's looking at the real numbers when you click
it
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L163[06:06:40] <transhohmann> I was
looking at the navball numbers and the mechjeb numbers
L164[06:16:20] <transhohmann> 44000 dv on
a 9 ton plane is good, right
L165[06:16:30] <transhohmann> or could I
do better
L166[06:18:59] <Althego> delta v is
largely meaningless in the atmosphere. because you can go faster or
slower with different amount of fuel usage based on the
altitude
L167[06:19:39] <Althego> for example you
can go high up and just sip the fuel, but still doing over 1000
m/s
L168[06:22:16] <transhohmann> just juno
engines
L169[06:22:46] <transhohmann> I think this
thing would fall apart at 100m/s
L170[06:22:51] <transhohmann> 100*ms
L171[06:22:57] <transhohmann> 1000*
L172[06:23:06] <Althego> the juno,
yes
L173[06:23:39] <Althego> but still the
rule applies. how far you get depend on your altitude and speed,
while for rockets in space there are no such factors
L174[06:24:44] <transhohmann> I can't go
far above 15,000 meters with this current plane
L175[06:31:25] <transhohmann> and now the
whole thing fails to function like it did 10 minutes ago
L176[06:31:33] <Althego> lol
L177[06:31:57] <Althego> sometimes unknown
behavior was solved for me by restarting
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L185[08:14:19] <transhohmann> fixed
it
L186[08:19:47] <darsie> yay
L187[08:19:52] <darsie> What did you
fix?
L188[08:21:26] <Althego> the plane
L189[08:28:54] <transhohmann> now I'm
trying to get it to 18,000m and it's a bit of a struggle
L190[08:29:03] <transhohmann> my TWR is
1.27
L191[08:29:39] *
darsie got to 22 km with a Juno. Or was it 26 km?
L193[08:39:20] <transhohmann> aww is that
thw whole craft
L194[08:39:29] <transhohmann> it's
lovely
L195[08:39:32] <transhohmann> lol
L196[08:40:15] <darsie> :)
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L199[08:44:36] <Althego> lol so t
iny
L200[08:45:18] <XXCoder> wonder if there
was compeition to see how small ship you can use and reach mun and
back
L201[08:46:00] <Althego> i think there
was
L202[08:46:07] <Althego> probably
multiple
L203[08:46:45] <Althego> at least i
remember doing something like that for myself based on some
contest
L204[08:46:54] <Althego> or mayeb my mind
just made it up
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L206[08:49:57] <darsie> Mun surface?
L207[09:30:10] <transhohmann> orbit would
make more sense
L208[09:31:06] <darsie> Mun surface
competitions make just as much sense.
L209[09:31:42] <darsie> The harder it is
the more possible solutions there are.
L210[09:32:01] <darsie> also define
'small'.
L211[09:32:39] <darsie> Mass, length,
volume?
L212[09:33:00] <darsie> or cost?
L213[09:35:21] <transhohmann> one for each
class
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L215[09:36:09] <transhohmann> lowest cost,
shortest/thinnest, lightest, most efficient, least massive
L216[09:36:20] <transhohmann> oops alread
y got one of those
L217[09:36:29] <transhohmann> least
volume
L218[09:37:22] <darsie> Fastest would be
interesting, too :).
L219[09:38:05] <darsie> I'm not into part
clipping ,though.
L220[09:39:41] <darsie> define
efficient
L221[09:41:08] <transhohmann> ooh,
definitely
L222[09:41:55] <transhohmann> the most I
ever part clip is I hide my goo in my the flaps of my science
jr
L223[09:42:26] ⇦
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L224[09:42:39] <transhohmann> how did you
launch the vehicle in that picture
L225[09:42:46] <darsie> VTOL
L226[09:43:22] <transhohmann> nice
L227[09:43:26] <darsie> Goes vertical to
Mach 1 in 35 s or so :).
L228[09:44:31]
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(~somebuddy@pika.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
L229[09:47:14] <darsie> Who owns (rights
to) images created by KSP users? Users, Squad, Take2, Private
Division, ...?
L230[09:58:03] <transhohmann> how does
it
L231[09:58:41] <transhohmann> I tried to
make it, to be fair I don't yet have that slim okto, but I can't
get it steady or fast
L232[09:59:46] <darsie> It burns and
exhausts fuel and air in a jet engine.
L234[10:00:14] <darsie> The reaction wheel
makes it steady.
L235[10:00:56] <transhohmann> the reaction
wheel. got it.
L236[10:21:00] ⇦
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L239[10:25:14] <transhohmann> 16km
cap
L240[10:25:24] <transhohmann> probably the
fat okto
L241[10:42:03] <darsie> You could try less
fuel.
L242[10:42:27] <darsie> I launched with a
full tank, though.
L243[10:56:11] ⇦
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L244[10:56:44] ⇦
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3.1)
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L246[11:00:07] <transhohmann> II'm
supposed to take a temperature reading above 18,400m around
Valentina's Tears, which is near to the southern ice cap
L247[11:00:09]
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(~sandbox@host-92-14-216-240.as13285.net)
L249[11:07:43] <Althego> in time?
L250[11:07:50] <Althego> was the engine
too slow?
L251[11:08:04] <darsie> Before reaching
11.4 Mm.
L252[11:08:15] <darsie> yeah, Dawn.
L253[11:10:23] <Althego> you need more
engine or smaller tank
L254[11:10:28] <darsie> mhm
L255[11:10:41] <darsie> Or different
engines.
L256[11:10:42] <Althego> now there is that
medium tank that goes on the side
L257[11:10:59] <darsie> transhohmann:
Well, you picked that contract ;).
L258[11:12:07] <darsie> But the Okto is
just 10 kg heavier than Okto2+RW, so I guess it's possible to reach
18.4 km with your vessle. Not sure if the Okto RWs are strong
enough, but you didn't complain about that.
L259[11:12:21]
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L260[11:13:08] <darsie> I guess an
external thermometer won't have enough mass/drag to prevent it. Not
sure, though.
L261[11:13:48] <darsie> You could try less
fuel.
L262[11:17:49] <darsie> Maybe the Okto
causes too much drag.
L263[11:30:17] <darsie> Yeah, the Okto RW
is weak, can't cope with the lift.
L264[11:30:40] <darsie> 17480 m ...
L265[11:34:43] <transhohmann> cap?
L266[11:35:00] <transhohmann> achieved it
wit h a suborbital
L267[11:36:43] <darsie> yeah
L268[11:36:59] <transhohmann> I should
have done when the plane first failed
L269[11:37:55] <darsie> I have the wings 4
deg angled or so.
L270[11:39:27] <XXCoder> ;mission
L271[11:39:27] <LunchBot> XXCoder:
Shrektoberfest comes early this year. This is widely considered to
be a bad move.
L272[11:39:36] <XXCoder> doh
L274[11:42:29] <transhohmann> lol
what
L275[11:42:56] <transhohmann> perhaps it
was the angle
L276[11:43:05] <transhohmann>
;mission
L277[11:43:05] <LunchBot> transhohmann:
You hold a black hole sale on black friday. Your escapades catch
the eye of Hollywood and they make a film, unfortunately it is
directed by Uwe Boll.
L278[11:43:18] <transhohmann> oh no
L279[11:57:01] <transhohmann>
:mission
L280[11:57:26] <transhohmann>
;mission
L281[11:57:26] <LunchBot> transhohmann:
You attempt to insert a nuclear ramjet probe into Jool's
atmosphere. This ultimately kills an infinite number of kerbals in
finite time.
L282[12:25:52]
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L283[12:28:02] ⇦
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(Remote host closed the connection)
L284[12:29:43] <Guest82633> 1
L285[12:30:04] <Althego> 0
L286[12:30:18]
⇨ Joins: minas_tirith
(~somebuddy@pika.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
L287[12:32:33] <Guest82633>
什么时候KSP能发布
L288[12:34:43] <Althego> KSP2?
unknown
L289[12:36:39] <Guest82633> ok
L290[12:36:58] <Guest82633> 谢谢
L291[12:37:08] ⇦
Quits: Guest82633 (webchat@106.47.201.78) (Quit:
webchat.esper.net)
L292[12:52:01]
⇨ Joins: sasamj
(uid193032@id-193032.ilkley.irccloud.com)
L293[13:30:46] <packbart> SporkWitch: what
I notice most in EVE is the amount of spam. Spam in chat, spam in
mail, spam with mobile depot names and containers in space...
L294[13:31:28] <Althego> hehe
L295[13:31:29] <Althego> true
L296[13:31:47] <Althego> lot of scammers.
they do it because it works :)
L298[13:50:22] <Althego> i hate that eve
is like submarines floating in some dense liquid
L299[13:50:41] <Althego> otherwise a vast
and complicated game
L300[13:52:49] <packbart> hm, yeah. but I
don't see me paying $15 per month for the advanced stuff. it's like
gating engineering in Elite behind a subscription
L301[13:53:03] <Althego> in a sense it is
paying for having a full time job
L302[13:53:26] <Althego> also known
spreadsheets in space
L303[13:53:56] <packbart> otoh, one
payment for lifetime updates as with KSP does limit the development
a bit, maybe
L304[13:53:57] <Althego> on the other hand
you can be part of a group of people, and can have fun with
them
L305[13:54:56] <packbart> well, I have a
rule about not using spreadsheets for any game :)
L306[14:02:18] <Althego> usually it is a
bad idea anyway
L307[14:08:24] <darsie> Might help with
cookie clicker :).
L308[14:12:37] <Althego> the good old days
when excel had a flight simulator
L309[14:42:15] <join_subline> ۩ vote for
me, for any submarines likeness in a video game :P
L310[14:44:22] <Althego> no great in a
space gamne
L312[14:49:39] <Althego> i dont know how
long submarines stay inside, but possibly quite long, comparable to
a mars travel. so maybe people can endure that
L313[14:51:23] <join_subline> yup, enclose
quarters living in only a tube about 100m long and 15m diameter. be
it submarine, or starship. like stress-testing social bonding.
across the ocean in a submarine is about a month. to mars, 3-6
months.
L314[14:55:52] <join_subline> welp, off to
do some groceries shopping. gotta have sustanance during the final
stretch of lockdown #3, here in toronto, canada. (ends in 3 days at
he end of the month, started at the beginnig of january) . first
step to qualify to ride a submarine, is to survive self-isolation
at home for a whole month.
L315[14:56:14] <Althego> i could do that
all day
L316[14:56:16] <Althego> all year
L317[14:56:33] <Althego> aall i need is a
bed and a computer
L318[15:01:24] <Althego> phoenix is
coming... but it is pokemon
L319[15:01:35] <join_subline> :)
L320[15:04:39] <Althego> no, the phoenix
is not a pokemon, but austrian. but the game is pokemon, i dont
like that
L321[15:06:13] <Althego> kikkerikii
L322[15:10:18] <join_subline> Here's your
ticket to ride in a submarine when it gets done. Your ticket number
is #51F, departing 12043-08-16 .
https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/subline-tickets .
It's set in silicon, now that's it's on the etherpad blockchain. Go
submarines NFT's! "If you need to travel, and you need to
work, and you need to sleep. Come ride in a submarine" |
https://i.imgur.com/xo9mPlp.jpg
L323[15:21:21] <SporkWitch> !ops scams /
ad spam
L324[15:21:33] <Althego> hehe
L325[15:21:39] <Althego> for nonexistent
service
L326[15:22:05] <SporkWitch> still waking
up, just saw the standard format and "blockchain";
screamed scam to me
L327[15:23:30] <SporkWitch> darsie: unless
otherwise specified in the EULA, it's a legal grey area, re:
ownership of screenshots. That said, no sane company actually tries
to excercise their copyright on players' screenshots, as it's a PR
disaster and the couple times companies have tried it resulted in
massive backlash.
L328[15:23:34] ⇦
Quits: UmbralRaptop
(~AndNex@2607:fb90:ea1d:58cf:abc1:1f5f:bdfa:bfba) (Quit:
Bye)
L329[15:23:46]
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L330[15:23:46]
ChanServ sets mode: +o on UmbralRaptop
L331[15:24:38] <Althego> but strangely if
you are streaming the game, there are some agreements. how is that
different from multiple screenshots?
L332[15:26:02] <SporkWitch> Althego:
that's what i mean, it's a grey area unless specified in the EULA.
The fair use exception for transformative works and commentary
applies, which is why streams are generally fine. The argument with
just screenshots could be that you're not actually offering
commentary, just showing the game itself. Add captions to turn that
screenshot into a meme? Fair use exception applies.
L334[15:26:47] <darsie> SporkWitch:
Wikipedia cares.
L335[15:26:57] <SporkWitch> wikipedia is
trash
L336[15:27:40] <SporkWitch> I'm still
hoping someone sues the crap out of them for defamation, since
unliike "normal" social media, every page claims credit
to Wikipedia itself, arguably waiving their section 230
protections.
L337[15:28:50] ***
join_subline was kicked by UmbralRaptop (cryptocurrency spam
))
L338[15:29:33] <UmbralRaptop> Apparently
my phone doesn't get pinged
L339[15:29:41] <SporkWitch> RIP
L340[15:30:03]
⇨ Joins: join_subline
(~join_subl@135-23-248-130.cpe.pppoe.ca)
L341[15:30:06] <SporkWitch> I need to sit
down and tweak some settings myself; can't remember how to get
persistent backscroll from ZNC
L342[15:30:09] <Althego> still looks lik a
joke to me
L343[15:30:18] <Althego> hell, all of
crypto is a joke
L344[15:30:30] <SporkWitch> not as much of
a joke as the US Dollar >_< lol
L345[15:30:46] <Althego> at this point the
value of money is completely fictional
L346[15:30:51] <SporkWitch> granted
L347[15:30:56] <Althego> we dont need to
waste energu to get fictional value
L348[15:31:04] <UmbralRaptop> ^
L349[15:32:49] <Althego> if it was useful
computation. like owning land used to mean you are rich. because
land was a resource. so say you have a computer cluster, that would
be a resource like land. because you could sell the time on that to
get money. but this is not even that. it is some useless
computation that is assigned value. then just assign value to money
as we do know
L350[15:34:25] <join_subline> lootbox
NFT's masterrace <*a la south park scarcastoball>
L351[15:34:40] <SporkWitch> fiat currency
is not inherrently bad. It has a lot of benefits (it's why the 2008
recession was a recession, not a depression like a century ago).
The problem is when is mismanaged by government, like literally
doubling the money supply, thus rapidly devaluing the money already
in circulation.
L352[15:35:24] <SporkWitch> (if people
thought the hockey stick graph for AGW was bad, they definitely
shouldn't look at the M1...)
L353[15:36:19] <SporkWitch> actual
KSP-related question: anyone messed with OhScrap? What exactly does
it do? Is it adding random part failures, or purely consequential
ones from in-game physics?
L354[15:37:48]
⇨ Joins: xandrox
(~trace@ip5b42976d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
L355[15:37:55] ⇦
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timeout: 189 seconds)
L356[15:41:45] <join_subline> bragging
owning jack dorsey's first tweet, and j.d gotta surcome to saying,
'yeah, that guy owns my first words on my twitter platform'. kinda,
like a baby speaking it's first words. so it makes j.d look like a
big babby, cause you own him. it's the ultimate psychological
faustian bargain / tea-bagging on someone. if you dont believe
that, then when you have your first kid, and they speak
L357[15:41:52] <join_subline> their first
words, then just give ownership of your baby's first words to a
random stranger. one man's treasure, is another man's junk. unless,
the other man thinks one man's junk, is his treasure.
L358[15:49:12] *
bees slaps Althego around a bit with a large trout
L359[15:49:31] <SporkWitch> mIRC user
detected: initiating purge protocol
L360[15:49:46] <Althego> hehe
L362[15:51:21]
⇨ Joins: Ezriilc (~Ezriilc@96.59.122.65)
L363[15:55:36] <SporkWitch> hmmm, i have
now successfully built something with ground construction, but now
i need to figure out how to actually "unpack" it
lol
L364[16:13:22]
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(~DazSeemsI@host-95-192-118-157.mobileonline.telia.com)
L365[16:13:54] <SporkWitch> grrrrrr can't
figure it out. What passes for "documentation" just says
to have an engineer in the workshop and be within 300m, but i can't
"unpack" the kit...
L366[16:18:14] <darsie> 300m? That's
pretty far.
L367[16:18:32] <darsie> IIRC you take it
from some inventory and place it on the ground.
L368[16:18:35] <SporkWitch> that's what
the Ground Construction mod says. In this case it was next to the
workshop, and deploy hint did not show any clipping
L369[16:18:45] <darsie> Oh, a mod.
L370[16:19:06] <Althego> threw it on the
ground
L371[16:47:52]
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(~flayer@2001:1c01:4002:5000:16da:e9ff:fe04:1768)
L373[17:08:46]
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L374[17:19:25] <sandbox> how strange
L375[17:21:04] <flayer> no, it's just
me
L376[17:36:04] <packbart> hm. Grobal
Construction worked rather well for me so far
L377[17:36:36] <packbart> it is a bit
hand-wavy and background construction does have the same problems
as converters, though
L378[17:38:00] <SporkWitch> packbart: i'm
just not figuring out how to actually unpack the kit. i constructed
it, hit finalize, it shoved it out. Sent the engineer over to it
and hit deploy, and it does. Says it needs 250EC to finish, but how
am i supposed to get it that EC? And there's no button to unpack or
anything like that
L380[17:49:38] <bees> mount a battery and
a solar panel on top?
L381[17:49:43] <bees> with EVA
construction?
L382[17:59:47] <packbart> SporkWitch: hm.
you build a kit in the assembly line? I'd probaby have to check an
old save. I produced kits in the assembly, flew it over to the
building site and then brought the mobile workshop rover
L383[18:00:43] <SporkWitch> packbart:
Ground Assembly Line, loaded in my simple science-mobile rover,
built it, hit finalize. It pushes it out, deploy preview shows it
having room. Deploy, but can't figure out how to do the final step
to unpack it from the kit.
L384[18:00:58] <SporkWitch> just been
testing on the runway, trying to figure out how things work so I
can determine what I'll need to actually send out
L385[18:02:04] <bees> also you probably
have some power distributor thingy?
L386[18:02:08] <packbart> yeah, the
assemby line only produces the kit. the workshop builds it into a
thing
L387[18:02:24] <SporkWitch> ah
L388[18:02:38] <SporkWitch> it's listed in
the workshop display, hence my confusion
L389[18:04:22] <SporkWitch> okay, so i
want the assembly line to build the kit, and the inline workshop
for construction
L390[18:04:52] <packbart> I rarely use the
assembly line, tbh. I launch a kit with a container full of the
required MaterialKits and additional resources
L391[18:05:15] <packbart> making
SpecializedParts from Ore is too slow ;)
L392[18:05:40] <SporkWitch> i'm trying to
figure out what's needed for off-world construction, so assembly
was also a requirement, heh
L393[18:06:01] <SporkWitch> and the MKS
stuff should make the times quiet manageable once the colony is
well-built
L394[18:06:13] <packbart> SporkWitch: yes,
that's how it works. the small inline-workshop has some efficiency
penalty compared to the mobile workshop, though
L395[18:06:16] <SporkWitch> (i'm expecting
these colonies to reach city-level heh)
L396[18:07:22] <SporkWitch> haven't
unlocked any others yet. Because all these mods change the tech
tree so much, i did cheat a bit of science in on a new save, and
gave myself all the science up to the 300 point nodes. Felt
reasonable so I'm not suffering through ultra-early game again and
can get doing more interesting stuff i haven't done before.
L397[18:07:47] <SporkWitch> Didn't want to
cheat further ahead, as unlocking too many things at once would
only make it harder to figure things out heh
L400[18:10:36] <SporkWitch> i'm also kind
of wondering if it makes sense to actually make an initial base
next to the KSC, to produce resources locally and save some
money
L401[18:11:01] <SporkWitch> (wonder if it
still has a hab/homesick timer if the base is on kerbin? lol)
L402[18:16:22] <Izaya> MDRS time
L403[18:16:46] <Althego> what is
that
L405[18:21:36] <SporkWitch> packbart:
wellp, that worked, i was missing the workshop lol
L406[18:37:38] ⇦
Quits: darsie (~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at)
(Quit: Wash your hands. Don't touch your face. Avoid fossil fuels
and animal products. Don't have children.)
L407[18:37:54]
⇨ Joins: darsie
(~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at)
L408[18:38:11] <SporkWitch> well that's an
interesting quit message...
L409[18:38:42] <Althego> sounds like life
philosophy
L410[18:39:06] <SporkWitch> a
self-exterminating one heh
L411[19:08:26] <darsie> which?
L412[19:08:51] <Althego> the no
children
L413[19:08:56] <darsie> ah
L414[19:17:31] <SporkWitch> it's just
basic maths; if you actually follow that philosophy, the philosophy
will die out (barring access to indoctrinate OTHER people's
children)
L415[19:18:13] <Althego> people use
facebook without being direct descendants of zuckerberg
L416[19:18:58] <SporkWitch> there's a
reason no one, especially children, should be using social media
lol
L417[19:21:24] <SporkWitch> grrrr
extrasolar planets mod doesn't work :'(
L418[19:40:04] ⇦
Quits: Neal__ (~Neal@47.146.41.156) (Quit: Leaving)
L419[20:03:30] ⇦
Quits: minas_tirith (~somebuddy@pika.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
(Remote host closed the connection)
L420[20:05:03]
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L421[20:10:56]
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(~Tank2333@p5ddaac58.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L423[21:14:26] <FLHerne> It's never
aliens
L424[21:16:04] <Althego> the problem is,
if that becomes a dogma
L426[21:16:39] <SporkWitch> reminded me of
the aliens dude, and the meme that picture of rachel maddow
inspired lol
L427[21:17:15] <darsie> Althego: What
would it matter?
L428[21:17:48] <Althego> because if you
find evidence of actual aliens, the dogma says it is never aliens,
so you will rationalize as something else
L429[21:18:00] <Althego> come up with an
other explanation, just to avoid it being aliens
L430[21:18:05] <darsie> What's gonna
change if we find a techno signature?
L431[21:18:17] <Althego> so it will be
never aliens, because the dogma says so
L432[21:18:26] <Izaya> "It's not DNS
/ It can't be DNS / It was DNS"
L433[21:18:34] <darsie> Or even a
primitive biosignature.
L434[21:18:43] <FLHerne> darsie: people
will just come up with increasingly strange hypothetical natural
explanations
L435[21:18:49] <Althego> exactly
L436[21:19:09] <FLHerne> "it's just
two stars colliding while a comet made of plutonium travels through
them at 0.999c"
L437[21:19:09] <darsie> Ok, so we miss it.
What's the diffenence to finding aliens?
L438[21:19:12] <SporkWitch> anyone know
any GOOD submarine mods?
L439[21:19:25] <SporkWitch> can't seem to
find the maritime pack on CKAN, and MOIST is poop
L440[21:19:29] <FLHerne> I mean, look at
epicycles and equants
L441[21:20:08] <darsie> We couldn't
contact/communicate with them because they're too far away. We
would still kill each other and our biosphere.
L442[21:20:13] <FLHerne> people spent
centuries coming up with complicated ways to make geocentricism fit
to observed reality
L443[21:20:45] <FLHerne> before Copernicus
and Kepler finally convinced people that elliptical heliocentric
orbits are more convincing
L444[21:21:13] <FLHerne> darsie: Maybe the
aliens are continuously broadcasting information on how to travel
FTL
L445[21:21:14] <FLHerne> who knows
L446[21:21:19] <darsie> Maybe, if the
aliens didn't look like humans, then God might look like them, not
like us.
L447[21:21:30] <FLHerne> or how to build a
zero-point-energy generator
L448[21:21:39] <FLHerne> <insert scifi
trope>
L449[21:21:50] <darsie> FLHerne: Yeah,
that'd be cool. Not likely, though, IMHO.
L450[21:22:17] <FLHerne> I don't really
expect God to look like either, or indeed to exist, but eh
L451[21:22:31] <Althego> why would a god
look like an ape
L452[21:22:33] <Althego> really
stupid
L453[21:22:34] <FLHerne> !stupid God in
our
L454[21:22:34] <LunchBot> FLHerne: No
stupid quote found matching "God in our".
L455[21:22:36] <FLHerne> er
L456[21:22:41] <Althego> but i doubt we
can continue this
L457[21:22:48] <Althego> religious
stuff
L458[21:22:58] <darsie> It's said that god
created humans similar to his appearence.
L459[21:23:02] <FLHerne> > Far from our
being made in the image of God, we make our gods in our own
image.
L460[21:23:12] <FLHerne> darsie: by
humans, yes
L461[21:23:22] <FLHerne> Althego: is that
a rule? if so we probably shouldn't
L462[21:24:16] <Althego> Political,
ideological or religious posts unrelated to Spaceflight, or of a
nature deemed likely to result in behavior banned under rule
2.2D;
L463[21:24:25] <Althego> under forbidden
content
L464[21:24:48] <Althego> where did i hear
this never aliens thing, it was in some video
L465[21:24:49] <FLHerne> Althego: but look
how we got here
L466[21:24:56] <FLHerne> it's clearly
related to spaceflight ;-)
L467[21:25:25] <SporkWitch> just remember:
Europa is forbidden
L468[21:26:52] <Althego> europa clipper
doesnt land, so we are fine
L469[21:27:01] <Althego> we havent found
the monoliths yet
L471[21:27:56] <Althego> most people
living in countries with christian background know about that in
the bible
L472[21:28:48] <darsie> Didn't find it in
English.
L473[21:29:10] <SporkWitch> To quote
Pierre-Simon Laplace: "I have no need of that
hypothesis"
L474[21:29:43] <darsie> Well, ppl would
probably keep believing that even if we found (super)human
intelligent aliens.
L475[21:30:50] <Althego> please dont go
into religion, it will cause a heated debate, and i have to
sleep
L476[21:31:35] <join_subline> 16:19
"anyone know any GOOD submarine mods?" -> submarines
again. yes, devs, make more u-boat mods.. 🙏x2 . Particularily Type
214 ... bitte 🙏 x zwei
L477[21:32:03] <Althego> i did build subs
in ksp
L478[21:32:11] <Althego> in fact i dived
on 3 planets
L479[21:32:16] <join_subline>
wunderbar
L480[21:32:23] <Althego> but i never had a
mod for that
L481[21:32:30] <join_subline> video, or it
didnt happen
L482[21:33:08] <darsie> ofc finding aliens
would make a difference in the far future, but if we missed them
now or in the near future, we'd find them anyways a bit
later.
L484[21:33:32] <join_subline> i made a sub
with some bodies in minetest. and have the video of it, but forgot
where i saved it. gotta find and upload it.
L485[21:33:50] <SporkWitch> one the
current theories is that we've FOUND aliens, and that's the reason
for the push for a global government; won't let us in the
federation if we're fractured lol
L486[21:33:55] <darsie> Do solar panels
work well under water?
L487[21:34:23] <SporkWitch> they
shouldn't, but i'm not sure; can't control buoyancy well enough to
test :(
L488[21:34:33] <join_subline> ohhhh
sweet.. you just gave me a submarine wet dream. pre-mature
submerging
L489[21:35:01] <Althego> do the engines
still work underwater?
L490[21:35:04] <Althego> i think not
anymore
L491[21:35:10] <darsie> SporkWitch: I made
a balanced sub from a long stack of batteries, and two
counterrotating motors/propellers front and back.
L492[21:35:14] <SporkWitch> pretty sure
they fixed it so water doesn't count as air
L493[21:35:26] <Althego> but there are
electric props now
L494[21:35:29] <darsie> Maybe some small
cubes.
L495[21:35:32] <darsie> Those heavy
ones.
L496[21:35:40] <SporkWitch> one of the
reasons i'm looking for a decent mod for balast and
propulsion
L497[21:35:58] <Althego> you dont need to
control buoyancy to test solar panels, just sink
L498[21:36:15] <SporkWitch> you do if you
don't want to smash into the ocean floor, which is what kept
happening with MOIST lol
L499[21:36:24] <SporkWitch> either it
wouldn't sink at all or it would sink uncontrollably lol
L500[21:36:37] <Althego> just use some
metal part that can take it
L501[21:36:59] <Althego> air brakes used
to work
L502[21:37:07] <Althego> not much
though
L503[21:37:55] <darsie> I built a sinking
Eve lander by chance.
L504[21:40:05] <Althego> hehe
L505[21:40:29] <Althego> i can imagine the
kerbals facepalming in the control room, while the crew is
panicing
L506[21:40:38] <darsie> Allowed me to
bring data from Eves surface and oceans.
L507[21:42:45] ⇦
Quits: Althego (~Althego@86FF5D3D.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: HMI
Module Alpha Humana on approach to Space Station
Mercury)
L508[21:45:16]
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L510[21:47:28] ***
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L512[21:50:53] <darsie> Not with
propellers.
L513[21:52:02] <SporkWitch> how many goats
were sacrificed in summoning that demon? lol
L515[21:53:22] <darsie> I don't need goats
to appear.
L516[21:58:28] <join_subline> të gjitha në
kohën e duhur. duhet të vendosen pjesët e shahut diku tjetër. kur
të jetë gati, do të ekzekutojë Urdhrin 66, për t'u bërë kampion
bote i nëndetëseve podcaster IRC. (V)(;,;)(V)
L517[21:58:37] <join_subline> oops, wrong
channel
L518[21:58:45] <darsie> Are you summoning
me? :)
L519[21:59:38] <flayer> hello
L520[22:00:20] <join_subline> sorry, was
giving advice to another buddy. ahh, i'll give you the same advice
too (though, it has nothing to do with KSP / submarines)..
L522[22:04:29] <X> Is there anything to
find under water in KSP?
L523[22:04:45] <darsie> X: Yes,
ground.
L524[22:05:01] <darsie> It's required for
landing ;).
L525[22:05:30] <X> Can you take off from
water? I thought it killed the engines
L526[22:05:50] <darsie> idk
L527[22:06:02] <darsie> Someone said it
does now.
L528[22:06:04] <X> I though that wa the
big problem about laythe.
L529[22:07:03] <darsie> Solar panel works
under water.
L530[22:07:41] <darsie> oops, solar panel
broke when extending while sinking.
L531[22:07:59] <darsie> broken by aero
forces
L532[22:10:08] <darsie> Is there no land
on Laythe?
L533[22:11:23] <raptop> There's some
L534[22:28:41] <darsie> Solar panel power
under water depends on type and depth:
L537[22:29:08]
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L541[22:54:31] <SporkWitch> how did it
never occur to me that a kerbin day is much shorter than 24h? lol i
was noticing on the countdowns when the day went down it jumpecd to
5 hours and change, which duh, rotational period of 6 hours per
kerbin day (approximately) >_< lol so freakin' obvious, but
never really paid attention to times before lol
L542[22:55:12] <darsie> :)
L543[22:55:46] <darsie> Gives you more
equatorial speed.
L544[22:59:13] <SporkWitch> so LEO is
~7.8km/s, equatorial rotational velocity ~1.67km/s. Kerbin is what
384 at the equator? and ~2400 for LKO. Assuming those numbers, it's
roughly proportional to earth (which makes sense, if they just
scaled things down compared to real world).
L545[23:06:28] <bees> ...no?
L546[23:06:38] <darsie> spacex launch
scrubbed
L547[23:06:38] <bees> earth has like
300-450 m/s iirc
L548[23:07:13] <SporkWitch> derp, fudged
my units.
L549[23:07:25] <SporkWitch> 1674km/h, not
/s
L550[23:07:42] <darsie> Kerbin is 600 km
radius
L551[23:09:11] <darsie> I get 175 m/s on
Kerbin's equator.
L552[23:11:29] <darsie> Sidereal
rotational velocity 174.94 m/s. I used solar days.
L553[23:14:08] <SporkWitch> i'm not sure
that would be the right value? given that we're no longer talking
about length of days, but literally the "kick" you get
for launching prograde from the equator, the absolute rotational
velocity is what we'd care about
L554[23:14:57] <SporkWitch> you seem to be
mixing numbers. solar day is measured noon-to-noon and would give
the wrong result; sidereal day is the actual time to complete
360°
L555[23:23:40] ⇦
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(Quit: Bye)
L556[23:37:43] <darsie> Yeah, but since a
Kerbin year is 600+ days the difference is not that big.
L557[23:38:18] <darsie> And yeah, I
rounded up from 174.5ish.
L558[23:38:27] <darsie> for solar
day
L559[23:38:46] <darsie> gn
L560[23:41:53] <SporkWitch> packbart: you
said you used MKS, you use interstellar as well?
L561[23:46:51] ⇦
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L562[23:53:56] ⇦
Quits: sandbox (~sandbox@host-92-14-216-240.as13285.net) (Quit:
Leaving)