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L38[07:27:22] <Althego> nile red makes
grape soda from plastic gloves. cody's lab extracts radioactive
potassium from bananas
L39[07:27:32] <Althego> the internet
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L54[09:43:13] <Althego> no, but there is an
ad about there
L55[09:44:08] <darsie> thx
L56[09:50:18] <darsie> That's what someone
in #space @ freenode also said.
L57[09:51:08] <Althego> maybe some new
anti-anti-ad feature of youtube
L58[09:51:30] <darsie> mhm
L59[09:51:54] <darsie> I wonder when
browsers will pretend to display ads to websites.
L60[09:52:03] <Althego> hehe
L61[09:53:30] <darsie> Maybe some websites
will require automatic screenshot/video ad verification.
L62[09:54:18] <darsie> Or some kind of DRM
browsers.
L63[09:54:39] <Althego> there is already
one browser
L64[09:54:44] <Althego> and that is
google's
L65[09:54:51] <Althego> you will be
required to view ads
L66[09:55:31] <darsie> Or just integrate
ads in the video. Then we'd need AI to detect ads.
L67[09:55:49] <Althego> the annoying thing
in video ads is that they take up my time
L68[09:56:00] <Althego> i dont care how
much surface they take on the site
L69[09:56:03] <Althego> i dont even notice
them
L70[09:56:15] <Althego> but if they take up
my time that is serious offense
L71[09:56:39] <darsie> I'm sensitive to
animated ads. Maybe some form of autism.
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L73[09:57:03] <darsie> Or even legit
animations, like in wikipedia.
L74[09:57:11] <darsie> Too
distracting.
L75[10:15:14] <Mat2ch> hehe, Cody from
Cody'sLab responded to the BLC1 signal video
L76[10:15:38] <Mat2ch> and yes, I'd is
really fun to think about it as a beacon to get our attention
L77[10:16:01] <Mat2ch> Let me spin
something. :D
L78[10:16:28] <Mat2ch> Proxima Centauri is
pretty close, only 4.5 light years iirc. So it has been bathed in
radio signals from our planet for years now
L79[10:16:58] <Mat2ch> an alien ship is
stranded there now and sees our signal and their only hope is that
we can help them, even if it takes 5 years to reach their
outcry.
L80[10:17:02] <Althego> yes i saw that
response
L81[10:17:09] <darsie> Mat2ch: url?
L82[10:17:16] <Althego> a cosmic number
station :)
L83[10:17:20] <Mat2ch> sadly they don't
know that we have no way to travel faster than light.
L85[10:17:56] <darsie> Ok, not a cody's lab
video.
L86[10:17:59] <Althego> they had years to
watch tv now, they must have realized the issue :)
L87[10:18:59] <Althego> what i like in the
event horizon channel, that he gets real scientists to be on
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L89[10:53:43] <darsie> Mat2ch: Where's
cody's response?
L90[10:54:08] <Althego> on the top, right
after the author's comment
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L92[11:15:47] <Mat2ch> yup yup
L93[11:15:57] <Mat2ch> when will we see SN9
fly? This year or next year? ;)
L94[11:16:19] <Althego> next year
L95[11:16:42] <darsie> Mat2ch: Where's
cody's response?
L96[11:17:10] <Althego> Cody'sLab
L97[11:17:10] <Althego> 8 hours ago
L98[11:17:10] <Althego> An intermittent
single tone can still carry information right? Maybe the bit rate
is just really low to make it easier to pick up. Give us lots of
time to catch the photons and with the length of time involved with
anything interstellar who cares if it takes several years to send
the whole message? Or perhaps this could be the beacon to get our
attention so we look closer and see the signal that is at a much
lower power. Fun to think
L99[11:17:10] <Althego> about at
least.
L101[11:19:16] <Althego> reply as in a
comment under the video
L102[11:19:22] <darsie> ic
L103[11:19:33] <Althego> what i
pasted
L104[11:19:50] <darsie> got it
L105[11:25:36] <Mat2ch> back to the
signal. Let's say it's not the frequency we should look at, but the
wavelength.
L106[11:25:48] <Mat2ch> Does 305287.635 m
correspond to something mathematically?
L107[11:26:09] <Althego> why would it.
also it depends on the units
L108[11:26:27] <Althego> why meters
L109[11:26:40] <Althego> maybe it neesds
to be measured in hydrogen molecule size
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L111[11:26:54] <Mat2ch> let me
explain
L112[11:27:07] <Mat2ch> say you want to
contact someone and see if they are intelligent enough to
communicate
L113[11:27:23] <Mat2ch> you would probably
send a phyiscal constant
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L115[11:27:47] <Mat2ch> but how do you do
that? How do you encode the constant so easily that it can be
understood on the other side, without having the same units?
L116[11:27:53] <Althego> "bei mir
bist du schön, please let me explain" (andrew sisters)
L117[11:28:00] <Mat2ch> dont.
L118[11:28:30] <Althego> you would have to
use something universal
L119[11:28:35] <Althego> which is hard to
ocme by
L120[11:28:37] <Mat2ch> The size of a
hydrogen atom is always the same. The unit doesn't matter if you
find something that is the similar size and you can send it
L121[11:28:43] <Althego> maybe unary
number system
L122[11:28:47] <Mat2ch> Wavelength is
universal!
L123[11:29:30] <Mat2ch> it's a length
proportion, we only measure it in meters
L124[11:29:44] <Mat2ch> and we talk about
it in Hz, when thinking about frequencies
L125[11:30:15] <Althego> the voyager
record used the size of hydrogen molecule, but there is drawing on
it to explain. even this is questionable, but how would you do the
same in a radio message?
L126[11:30:17] <Mat2ch> so, wie need
something, a constant, a universal size, that fits 305287.635
m
L127[11:31:06] <Mat2ch> but they might not
be able to send something complex like that.
L128[11:31:23] <Mat2ch> It's a one-shot
thing.
L129[11:31:59] <Mat2ch> You need a message
that has only a single information in it and it has to be so
outstanding that the other side can put the details together
L130[11:32:08] <Althego> at this point the
noly viable communication i can come up with, is probe with ai on
board. and then the probe has enough time to come up with some kind
of translation by monitoring us
L131[11:32:32] <Althego> and it can even
directly answer qestions
L132[11:32:51] <Mat2ch> 305287 is hex for
blue. Well...
L133[11:34:39] <darsie> In Contact they
used "hydrogen times pi".
L134[11:35:02] <Althego> that sounds
logical too
L135[11:35:16] <darsie> not sure if that's
something to look for specifically, but it has a touch of
artificiality if found.
L136[11:37:02] <darsie> I think any
frequency that is physically suitable for transmission is good,
e.g. in a silent band with low absorption by interstellar medium
and atmosphere(s).
L137[11:37:36] <Althego> how do you know
the target planet's atmoshpere?
L138[11:37:55] <Althego> ok, if you target
specifically discoveredf planets, you might know
L139[11:37:55] <Mat2ch> Well, could be
Helium, too, since it is more stable
L140[11:37:56] <darsie> There might be a
range of typical atmospheres.
L141[11:38:10] <Althego> but you dont know
what is ok for life
L142[11:38:15] <Mat2ch> But it would be an
easy task to look through all elements and see if something fits
the data.
L143[11:38:15] <darsie> But they might
also target space telescopes.
L144[11:38:46] <darsie> Perhaps they don't
consider civilizations worthy of contact if they don't put
telescopes in space.
L145[11:39:34] <Althego> another issue is,
there might be whole civilizations in water planets under ice,
outside of the goldilocks zone
L146[11:39:36] <darsie> It's only like 300
years of radio telecommunications till you do it it space.
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L148[11:40:05] <Althego> and that might be
a brief window, ebcause you switch to lasers
L149[11:40:46] <darsie> So there are a lot
more frequencies to look into.
L150[11:41:04] <darsie> Like efficient
lasers.
L151[11:42:27] <darsie> Also I think using
a low bitrate is a bad idea. An on/off keyed beacon is much more
likely to be noticed.
L152[11:42:48] <Althego> i would modulate
it with primes
L153[11:43:03] <Althego> just for
attention
L154[11:43:14] <Althego> but how to encode
an actual message? who knows
L155[11:43:21] <Mat2ch> Who knows how far
advanced they are right now? Maybe four years ago they were just
beginning to explore?
L156[11:46:21] <Althego> plot twist. it
was not coming from proxima centaury, but from the collective
consciousness of the venusian phosphene microbes that put a giant
space mirror in deep space millions of years ago :)
L157[11:49:09] <Mat2ch> And it reflected a
signal from ourselves!
L158[11:49:25] <Althego> i thought from
venus, but that works too
L159[11:54:24] <packbart> decode the
signal as an audio waveform only to find out it's "never gonna
give you up, never gonna let you down..."
L160[11:54:33] <Althego> hehe
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L162[12:03:05] <darsie> lol
L163[12:03:45] <darsie> Slow bit rate
could mean long off periods. That would be bad.
L164[12:03:51] <Althego> so widespread
prank, that it is actually possible aliens think this is some
greeting, and try to contact us with it, and everybody ignores it,
because it is a prank :)
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L168[12:43:29] <Althego> 0 utc? that is
tomorrow already
L169[12:43:34] <Althego> not going to
watch it live
L170[12:46:39] <Althego> but anyway,
developer stream today
L171[12:46:45] <Althego> looks like ksp1
not ksp2
L172[12:48:15] <Mat2ch> 0 UTC, or: Frell
you whole Europe and everyone east of that until you reach
Japan
L173[12:57:06] <packbart> Kerbalism's
dump-valve bugginess is driving me bonkers. Probes run out of power
with fuel cells running. Even though the PAW says it's set to
"dump water", it reverts to "None" internally
so the cells stop producing EC
L174[12:57:27] <packbart> I'm torn between
finally seeing probes arrive at Jool and Duna or restarting the
career early (again)
L175[12:57:54] <packbart> I looked at the
code but couldn't find any useful way to fix it, either :/
L176[12:59:17] <packbart> maybe I should
just go back to TacLS (which has other oddities). Every
life-support mod has issues but this one is really annoying
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L199[17:34:45] <Althego> hehe joe scott
and 1 million subscriber video
L200[17:34:55] <umaxtu> the clones?
L201[17:34:59] <Althego> yes
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L205[18:29:19] ***
lordcirth__ is now known as lordcirth
L206[18:36:50] <flayer> i'm going to try
and put a station in solar orbit right out in front of kerbin
L207[18:37:14] <Deddly> Shared orbit, you
mean?
L208[18:37:39] <flayer> sure
L209[18:37:44] <Deddly> Or do you mean at
the lagrange point?
L210[18:37:53] <flayer> i don't know what
either of those terms mean
L211[18:37:57] <Althego> hehe
L212[18:38:00] <Deddly> Oh sorry
L213[18:38:02] <flayer> solar orbit,
leading kerbin
L214[18:38:09] <Deddly> Yeah OK I
understand
L215[18:38:18] <flayer> same per-ap
L217[18:38:51] <Althego> in vanilla ksp
the otherwise quite intersting lagrange points 1 and 2 are not
possible
L218[18:39:01] <flayer> yeah i was
thinking that
L219[18:39:37] <flayer> i want to put the
station just ever so slightly outside kerbins soi
L220[18:39:43] <Althego> but since none of
the lagrange points actually exists in ksp, you dont need to put
the thing into the 120 degree points, any would do
L221[18:39:57] <Deddly> flayer, lagrange
points are really interesting, actually. Looking at the nice .gif
(with a hard G) that Althego posted, you can see that there are
some points where you can put a spacecraft that pretty much stay
there quite stably
L222[18:40:13] <Deddly> But you can't do
lagrange points in KSP :(
L223[18:40:20] <flayer> yeah, luckily ksp
is much easier
L224[18:40:33] <packbart> The Expanse even
has space stations at L4 and 5
L225[18:40:53] <Deddly> Hang on, aren't 4
and 5 in the wrong places in that .gif?
L226[18:41:17] <Deddly> Nope, I was
wrong
L227[18:41:35] <Deddly> In that case, I
don't understand L4 and L5
L228[18:41:55] <Althego> they are 120
degress off
L229[18:41:58] <Althego> from the
planet
L230[18:42:05] <Althego> but even i dont
understand why
L231[18:42:23] <flayer> Because of
gravity.
L232[18:42:44] <Althego> supposdly
lyapunov did some research on these, out of that a whole part of
control engineering grow out. so i ought to look into this,
especially because of lyapunov
L233[18:49:30] <Deddly> Huh, L4 and L5 are
stable because of the Coriolis force
L235[18:54:58]
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L236[19:00:48] <Deddly> So basically,
since the object at L4 or L5 rotating around the Sun, if it begins
to leave the lagrange point, the Coriolis force gives it a relative
curve in the clockwise direction, so it curls around back into the
"tabletop" area.
L237[19:01:08] <Deddly> What I don't
understand is why the "tabletop" area is there at
all
L239[19:04:16] <Althego> hehe the
conserved quantity, energy-like, that is what a lyapunof function
is
L240[19:04:36] <Althego> why did i wite it
with f
L241[19:07:58] <flayer> i have now read
those webpages, and i am honestly satisfied with the explanation
'gravity.'
L242[19:08:07] <Althego> hehe
L243[19:08:38] <raptop> Because
triangle
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L245[19:27:01] <Althego> haha, kfx really
wants to make a console
L246[19:27:05] <Althego> kfc
L247[19:37:56] <Mat2ch> yep
L248[19:38:06] <Mat2ch> with a drawer to
keep your chicken wings warm...
L249[19:38:11] <Mat2ch> heated by an
Intel
L250[19:38:19] <Althego> i heard about
this some time ago. but i wrote it off as something stupid. and now
they are really doing it
L251[19:39:27] <flayer> do you remember
november 2016?
L252[19:39:35] <Althego> no, not
really
L253[19:39:39] <flayer> honk honk
L254[19:39:54] <Althego> remember,
remember, the fifth of november :)
L256[19:40:22] <Althego> hehehe
L257[19:40:40] <Althego> i think 2020 was
my best year, everything considered
L258[19:40:49] <flayer> same here
L259[19:40:50] <Althego> exactly because
of the virus
L260[19:41:14] <flayer> the virus had
little impact, i think
L261[19:41:30] <flayer> it helped
L262[19:41:48] <flayer> its nice that
people keep their distance
L263[19:41:53] <Althego> whole company
working from home. which was actually always possible, we just
never did it. this is what i always wanted
L264[19:42:06] <flayer> haha
L265[19:42:07] <Althego> doesnt matter
where i log in from to a server to look at some code
L266[19:42:16] <flayer> indeed
L267[19:42:25] <flayer> its time to stop
having large offices in buildings
L268[19:42:34] <flayer> long commutes to
those buildings
L269[19:43:10] <Althego> funny thing is, i
need the commute to read mangas. so i waste the exact same amount
of time, just i am not travelling
L270[19:43:43] <flayer> you are depriving
bus and train drivers of work!
L271[19:43:53] <Althego> not really
L272[19:44:11] <Althego> because they are
already partially maintained by tax money
L273[19:44:31] <lordcirth> tax money that
is justified by people using it
L274[19:45:05] <Althego> but i dont buy
monthly passes because i dont need them
L275[19:47:03] <lordcirth> I've kept my
monthly pass autorenewal going throughout the lockdown. They
probably have enough problems.
L276[19:47:40] <Althego> hehe autorenewal.
i doubt anything like that exists here
L277[19:47:50] <Althego> they are on
paper. with human readable dates
L278[19:47:57] <Althego> absolutely
dumb
L279[19:48:35] <lordcirth> They switched
to a digital card last year. Also the card doesn't start working
for like 2 days after you buy it, which was quite frustrating,
considering the expiry notice was also sent out 2 days
before.
L280[19:48:48] <lordcirth> But autorenewal
takes care of that.
L281[19:49:23] <Althego> there has been
some movement for years to have a digital system. countless amount
of money spent, still nothing
L282[19:55:25] *
raptop 's notable spending increase this year was upgrading my
internet
L283[19:55:45] <raptop> As for transit
passes, meh
L284[19:57:17] *
raptop gets to use the city buses for free, and uses the WMATA
buses/subway pretty rarely. Meanwhile the passes for those only
offer savings if you use them for regular work commute, and even
then only ~10-20%
L285[19:57:19] <Althego> at this point i
just upgrade the net so that the company doesnt rip me off. they
usually increase bandwidth in new payment packages but leave them
in old. so i revisit them sometimes and upgrade. but the gain is
not noticable
L286[19:58:14] <raptop> Also, fun fact:
post-COVID, WMATA's bus system has higher ridership than its subway
system
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L288[20:10:20] <Mat2ch> Althego: I like
the paper stuff. It's anonymous.
L289[20:10:51] <Mat2ch> We have RFID cards
here for some tickets and it's a pain in the thing you sit on
L290[20:11:00] <Althego> hehe
L291[20:11:08] <Althego> well yes they are
trackable
L292[20:11:12] <Althego> so is my
phone
L293[20:11:29] <Mat2ch> first of all, when
you need one of the RFID cards it is impossible to get one. And
there is no way the machine gives you a paper as fallback
L294[20:11:52] <Althego> also you movement
pattern is kind of unique and easily identifyable without face (for
example too low resolution camera)
L295[20:12:15] <Mat2ch> The last time I
had to get such an RFID car I walked for like 5-7 km to get to a
shop where they are sold with the ticket itself
L296[20:12:24] <Althego> lol
L297[20:12:35] <Althego> this doesnt sound
like germany
L298[20:12:52] <Mat2ch> That are two
things. The one thing is something I have to carry in my pocket the
other thing has to be put up and is easily thrown off by a
hat
L299[20:12:54] <Althego> some kind of
alternate reality with italians or something
L300[20:13:33] <Mat2ch> we are slowly
turning into 1970s Italy here. No offense to Italy btw. :P
L301[20:13:38] <Althego> i have the
company card in my wallet, works through leather
L302[20:14:03] <Althego> so you have bud
spencer movies and spaghetti westerns?
L303[20:14:05] <Mat2ch> Well, just make
public transport free and you don't need all the paper work
:P
L304[20:14:28] <Mat2ch> Bud Spencer
movies... well, something like that, just way worse. :D
L305[20:16:49] <Althego> is tatort still
running?
L306[20:17:56] <packbart> I guess so.
Didn't watch it for quite some time now
L307[20:18:23] <Althego> hehe seems so.
numbr of episodes 1145
L309[20:19:48] <Althego> they did
L310[20:19:52] <Althego> only
germany
L311[20:19:57] <packbart> I usually
"watch" the version with audio description, so I don't
have to look at the screen the whole time
L312[20:19:58] <Althego> not that i wanted
to watch it
L313[20:20:04] <packbart> well, typical
bummer
L314[20:20:52] <packbart> (also the AD
version gives more information that I would never register and
doesn't have so many silent scenes where people just stare at each
other)
L315[20:26:39] <Mat2ch> Althego: yes and
it's going strong.
L316[20:26:58] <Mat2ch> Althego: need a
copy? :P
L317[20:27:37] <Mat2ch> (just kidding,
that would be piracy and I'm not doing such horrendous
things!)
L318[20:31:38] <Mat2ch> oh, Tesla is
allowed to work on their German factory again
L319[20:31:47] <Althego> some german tv
series somehow made it here during the socialism. among these were
derrick, tatort and ein fall für zwei. so i remember these from my
childhood, havent watched them since then
L320[20:32:07] <flayer> i will have to
find an efficient way of reaching kerbin + 10 days on kerbin's
orbit
L321[20:32:21] <Althego> solar sails
L322[20:32:29] <flayer> within stock
kerbin
L323[20:32:32] <flayer> kerbal
L324[20:32:38] <flayer> stock ksp
L325[20:32:45] <Althego> the docking port
drive :)
L326[20:32:45] <lordcirth> flayer, like,
10 days ahead of Kerbin? why?
L327[20:33:25] <flayer> cause thats a
place near kerbin in solar orbit that won't move in relation to
kerbin
L328[20:34:10] <Althego> but what do you
mean efficient?
L329[20:35:01] <Althego> to minmus i
always go on an escape trajectory. which is usually still something
like 2 days or so, but have to burn a lot of fuel at arrival
L330[20:36:29] <flayer> low fuel
cost
L331[20:36:41] <flayer> moderate snacks
cost
L332[20:39:47] <lordcirth> flayer,
probably a Mun assist to eject; the angle would depend on your
fuel/time tradeoff. I think doing one lap (year - 10d) and burning
prograde to match Kerbin would be quite efficient
L333[20:39:57] <lordcirth> Not sure the
optimal way to do it faster
L334[20:40:47] <flayer> i'm not subjecting
my kerbonauts to a year in a tiny shuttle to get to the
station
L335[20:40:53] <lordcirth> (That is,
ejecting kerbin-retrograde)
L336[20:41:36] <lordcirth> Well, that is
effectively an interplanetary transfer; look up trajectories other
than hohmann?
L337[20:42:01] <flayer> what i will do
instead is launch into a low kerbin orbit and fiddle with
dials
L338[20:42:07] <Althego> is there anything
more efficient than hohmann in ksp?
L339[20:42:17] <Althego> bi
elliptic?
L340[20:42:46] <Althego> but i think in
this case that wouldnt help
L341[20:42:58] <Althego> and all the
others depend on multiple body physics
L342[20:45:24] <mrBlaQ> I think infinite
fuel cheat is p efficient imo
L343[20:45:53] <Althego> so is the docking
port drive, unless it was fixed in 1.11
L344[20:46:49] <lordcirth> If the Dv for a
fast transfer is a lot, I would make a LV-N shuttle between KEO and
the station, and an SSTO to it, if you want to be really
fancy
L345[20:47:08] <Althego> and you could
tank it up on minmus
L346[20:47:25] <Althego> so fuel becomes
free
L347[20:47:44] <lordcirth> Indeed. Don't
need much TWR to land on Minmus
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