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L38[07:27:22] <Althego> nile red makes grape soda from plastic gloves. cody's lab extracts radioactive potassium from bananas
L39[07:27:32] <Althego> the internet
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L46[08:21:54] <Althego> about the signal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OO7JZ14sZM
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L52[09:17:13] <darsie> Does this video stop for you at 8:53, too? https://youtu.be/hLHo9ZM3Bis?t=530
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L54[09:43:13] <Althego> no, but there is an ad about there
L55[09:44:08] <darsie> thx
L56[09:50:18] <darsie> That's what someone in #space @ freenode also said.
L57[09:51:08] <Althego> maybe some new anti-anti-ad feature of youtube
L58[09:51:30] <darsie> mhm
L59[09:51:54] <darsie> I wonder when browsers will pretend to display ads to websites.
L60[09:52:03] <Althego> hehe
L61[09:53:30] <darsie> Maybe some websites will require automatic screenshot/video ad verification.
L62[09:54:18] <darsie> Or some kind of DRM browsers.
L63[09:54:39] <Althego> there is already one browser
L64[09:54:44] <Althego> and that is google's
L65[09:54:51] <Althego> you will be required to view ads
L66[09:55:31] <darsie> Or just integrate ads in the video. Then we'd need AI to detect ads.
L67[09:55:49] <Althego> the annoying thing in video ads is that they take up my time
L68[09:56:00] <Althego> i dont care how much surface they take on the site
L69[09:56:03] <Althego> i dont even notice them
L70[09:56:15] <Althego> but if they take up my time that is serious offense
L71[09:56:39] <darsie> I'm sensitive to animated ads. Maybe some form of autism.
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L73[09:57:03] <darsie> Or even legit animations, like in wikipedia.
L74[09:57:11] <darsie> Too distracting.
L75[10:15:14] <Mat2ch> hehe, Cody from Cody'sLab responded to the BLC1 signal video
L76[10:15:38] <Mat2ch> and yes, I'd is really fun to think about it as a beacon to get our attention
L77[10:16:01] <Mat2ch> Let me spin something. :D
L78[10:16:28] <Mat2ch> Proxima Centauri is pretty close, only 4.5 light years iirc. So it has been bathed in radio signals from our planet for years now
L79[10:16:58] <Mat2ch> an alien ship is stranded there now and sees our signal and their only hope is that we can help them, even if it takes 5 years to reach their outcry.
L80[10:17:02] <Althego> yes i saw that response
L81[10:17:09] <darsie> Mat2ch: url?
L82[10:17:16] <Althego> a cosmic number station :)
L83[10:17:20] <Mat2ch> sadly they don't know that we have no way to travel faster than light.
L84[10:17:25] <Mat2ch> darsie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OO7JZ14sZM
L85[10:17:56] <darsie> Ok, not a cody's lab video.
L86[10:17:59] <Althego> they had years to watch tv now, they must have realized the issue :)
L87[10:18:59] <Althego> what i like in the event horizon channel, that he gets real scientists to be on
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L89[10:53:43] <darsie> Mat2ch: Where's cody's response?
L90[10:54:08] <Althego> on the top, right after the author's comment
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L92[11:15:47] <Mat2ch> yup yup
L93[11:15:57] <Mat2ch> when will we see SN9 fly? This year or next year? ;)
L94[11:16:19] <Althego> next year
L95[11:16:42] <darsie> Mat2ch: Where's cody's response?
L96[11:17:10] <Althego> Cody'sLab
L97[11:17:10] <Althego> 8 hours ago
L98[11:17:10] <Althego> An intermittent single tone can still carry information right? Maybe the bit rate is just really low to make it easier to pick up. Give us lots of time to catch the photons and with the length of time involved with anything interstellar who cares if it takes several years to send the whole message? Or perhaps this could be the beacon to get our attention so we look closer and see the signal that is at a much lower power. Fun to think
L99[11:17:10] <Althego> about at least.
L100[11:18:28] <darsie> Last I see is 2 d ago: https://www.youtube.com/user/theCodyReeder/videos
L101[11:19:16] <Althego> reply as in a comment under the video
L102[11:19:22] <darsie> ic
L103[11:19:33] <Althego> what i pasted
L104[11:19:50] <darsie> got it
L105[11:25:36] <Mat2ch> back to the signal. Let's say it's not the frequency we should look at, but the wavelength.
L106[11:25:48] <Mat2ch> Does 305287.635 m correspond to something mathematically?
L107[11:26:09] <Althego> why would it. also it depends on the units
L108[11:26:27] <Althego> why meters
L109[11:26:40] <Althego> maybe it neesds to be measured in hydrogen molecule size
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L111[11:26:54] <Mat2ch> let me explain
L112[11:27:07] <Mat2ch> say you want to contact someone and see if they are intelligent enough to communicate
L113[11:27:23] <Mat2ch> you would probably send a phyiscal constant
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L115[11:27:47] <Mat2ch> but how do you do that? How do you encode the constant so easily that it can be understood on the other side, without having the same units?
L116[11:27:53] <Althego> "bei mir bist du schön, please let me explain" (andrew sisters)
L117[11:28:00] <Mat2ch> dont.
L118[11:28:30] <Althego> you would have to use something universal
L119[11:28:35] <Althego> which is hard to ocme by
L120[11:28:37] <Mat2ch> The size of a hydrogen atom is always the same. The unit doesn't matter if you find something that is the similar size and you can send it
L121[11:28:43] <Althego> maybe unary number system
L122[11:28:47] <Mat2ch> Wavelength is universal!
L123[11:29:30] <Mat2ch> it's a length proportion, we only measure it in meters
L124[11:29:44] <Mat2ch> and we talk about it in Hz, when thinking about frequencies
L125[11:30:15] <Althego> the voyager record used the size of hydrogen molecule, but there is drawing on it to explain. even this is questionable, but how would you do the same in a radio message?
L126[11:30:17] <Mat2ch> so, wie need something, a constant, a universal size, that fits 305287.635 m
L127[11:31:06] <Mat2ch> but they might not be able to send something complex like that.
L128[11:31:23] <Mat2ch> It's a one-shot thing.
L129[11:31:59] <Mat2ch> You need a message that has only a single information in it and it has to be so outstanding that the other side can put the details together
L130[11:32:08] <Althego> at this point the noly viable communication i can come up with, is probe with ai on board. and then the probe has enough time to come up with some kind of translation by monitoring us
L131[11:32:32] <Althego> and it can even directly answer qestions
L132[11:32:51] <Mat2ch> 305287 is hex for blue. Well...
L133[11:34:39] <darsie> In Contact they used "hydrogen times pi".
L134[11:35:02] <Althego> that sounds logical too
L135[11:35:16] <darsie> not sure if that's something to look for specifically, but it has a touch of artificiality if found.
L136[11:37:02] <darsie> I think any frequency that is physically suitable for transmission is good, e.g. in a silent band with low absorption by interstellar medium and atmosphere(s).
L137[11:37:36] <Althego> how do you know the target planet's atmoshpere?
L138[11:37:55] <Althego> ok, if you target specifically discoveredf planets, you might know
L139[11:37:55] <Mat2ch> Well, could be Helium, too, since it is more stable
L140[11:37:56] <darsie> There might be a range of typical atmospheres.
L141[11:38:10] <Althego> but you dont know what is ok for life
L142[11:38:15] <Mat2ch> But it would be an easy task to look through all elements and see if something fits the data.
L143[11:38:15] <darsie> But they might also target space telescopes.
L144[11:38:46] <darsie> Perhaps they don't consider civilizations worthy of contact if they don't put telescopes in space.
L145[11:39:34] <Althego> another issue is, there might be whole civilizations in water planets under ice, outside of the goldilocks zone
L146[11:39:36] <darsie> It's only like 300 years of radio telecommunications till you do it it space.
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L148[11:40:05] <Althego> and that might be a brief window, ebcause you switch to lasers
L149[11:40:46] <darsie> So there are a lot more frequencies to look into.
L150[11:41:04] <darsie> Like efficient lasers.
L151[11:42:27] <darsie> Also I think using a low bitrate is a bad idea. An on/off keyed beacon is much more likely to be noticed.
L152[11:42:48] <Althego> i would modulate it with primes
L153[11:43:03] <Althego> just for attention
L154[11:43:14] <Althego> but how to encode an actual message? who knows
L155[11:43:21] <Mat2ch> Who knows how far advanced they are right now? Maybe four years ago they were just beginning to explore?
L156[11:46:21] <Althego> plot twist. it was not coming from proxima centaury, but from the collective consciousness of the venusian phosphene microbes that put a giant space mirror in deep space millions of years ago :)
L157[11:49:09] <Mat2ch> And it reflected a signal from ourselves!
L158[11:49:25] <Althego> i thought from venus, but that works too
L159[11:54:24] <packbart> decode the signal as an audio waveform only to find out it's "never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..."
L160[11:54:33] <Althego> hehe
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L162[12:03:05] <darsie> lol
L163[12:03:45] <darsie> Slow bit rate could mean long off periods. That would be bad.
L164[12:03:51] <Althego> so widespread prank, that it is actually possible aliens think this is some greeting, and try to contact us with it, and everybody ignores it, because it is a prank :)
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L167[12:43:11] <Althego> https://twitter.com/KerbalSpaceP/status/1341036863839191042
L168[12:43:29] <Althego> 0 utc? that is tomorrow already
L169[12:43:34] <Althego> not going to watch it live
L170[12:46:39] <Althego> but anyway, developer stream today
L171[12:46:45] <Althego> looks like ksp1 not ksp2
L172[12:48:15] <Mat2ch> 0 UTC, or: Frell you whole Europe and everyone east of that until you reach Japan
L173[12:57:06] <packbart> Kerbalism's dump-valve bugginess is driving me bonkers. Probes run out of power with fuel cells running. Even though the PAW says it's set to "dump water", it reverts to "None" internally so the cells stop producing EC
L174[12:57:27] <packbart> I'm torn between finally seeing probes arrive at Jool and Duna or restarting the career early (again)
L175[12:57:54] <packbart> I looked at the code but couldn't find any useful way to fix it, either :/
L176[12:59:17] <packbart> maybe I should just go back to TacLS (which has other oddities). Every life-support mod has issues but this one is really annoying
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L199[17:34:45] <Althego> hehe joe scott and 1 million subscriber video
L200[17:34:55] <umaxtu> the clones?
L201[17:34:59] <Althego> yes
L202[18:02:29] <Althego> https://mars.nasa.gov/news/8817/3-things-weve-learned-from-nasas-mars-insight/
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L206[18:36:50] <flayer> i'm going to try and put a station in solar orbit right out in front of kerbin
L207[18:37:14] <Deddly> Shared orbit, you mean?
L208[18:37:39] <flayer> sure
L209[18:37:44] <Deddly> Or do you mean at the lagrange point?
L210[18:37:53] <flayer> i don't know what either of those terms mean
L211[18:37:57] <Althego> hehe
L212[18:38:00] <Deddly> Oh sorry
L213[18:38:02] <flayer> solar orbit, leading kerbin
L214[18:38:09] <Deddly> Yeah OK I understand
L215[18:38:18] <flayer> same per-ap
L216[18:38:19] <Althego> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_point#/media/File:Lagrangianpointsanimated.gif
L217[18:38:51] <Althego> in vanilla ksp the otherwise quite intersting lagrange points 1 and 2 are not possible
L218[18:39:01] <flayer> yeah i was thinking that
L219[18:39:37] <flayer> i want to put the station just ever so slightly outside kerbins soi
L220[18:39:43] <Althego> but since none of the lagrange points actually exists in ksp, you dont need to put the thing into the 120 degree points, any would do
L221[18:39:57] <Deddly> flayer, lagrange points are really interesting, actually. Looking at the nice .gif (with a hard G) that Althego posted, you can see that there are some points where you can put a spacecraft that pretty much stay there quite stably
L222[18:40:13] <Deddly> But you can't do lagrange points in KSP :(
L223[18:40:20] <flayer> yeah, luckily ksp is much easier
L224[18:40:33] <packbart> The Expanse even has space stations at L4 and 5
L225[18:40:53] <Deddly> Hang on, aren't 4 and 5 in the wrong places in that .gif?
L226[18:41:17] <Deddly> Nope, I was wrong
L227[18:41:35] <Deddly> In that case, I don't understand L4 and L5
L228[18:41:55] <Althego> they are 120 degress off
L229[18:41:58] <Althego> from the planet
L230[18:42:05] <Althego> but even i dont understand why
L231[18:42:23] <flayer> Because of gravity.
L232[18:42:44] <Althego> supposdly lyapunov did some research on these, out of that a whole part of control engineering grow out. so i ought to look into this, especially because of lyapunov
L233[18:49:30] <Deddly> Huh, L4 and L5 are stable because of the Coriolis force
L234[18:49:35] <Deddly> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/resources/754/what-is-a-lagrange-point/
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L236[19:00:48] <Deddly> So basically, since the object at L4 or L5 rotating around the Sun, if it begins to leave the lagrange point, the Coriolis force gives it a relative curve in the clockwise direction, so it curls around back into the "tabletop" area.
L237[19:01:08] <Deddly> What I don't understand is why the "tabletop" area is there at all
L238[19:01:14] <Deddly> https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/36092/why-are-l-4-and-l-5-lagrangian-points-stable
L239[19:04:16] <Althego> hehe the conserved quantity, energy-like, that is what a lyapunof function is
L240[19:04:36] <Althego> why did i wite it with f
L241[19:07:58] <flayer> i have now read those webpages, and i am honestly satisfied with the explanation 'gravity.'
L242[19:08:07] <Althego> hehe
L243[19:08:38] <raptop> Because triangle
L244[19:14:20] ⇦ Quits: jazzkutya (~jazzkutya@catv-80-98-192-241.catv.broadband.hu) (Quit: Leaving)
L245[19:27:01] <Althego> haha, kfx really wants to make a console
L246[19:27:05] <Althego> kfc
L247[19:37:56] <Mat2ch> yep
L248[19:38:06] <Mat2ch> with a drawer to keep your chicken wings warm...
L249[19:38:11] <Mat2ch> heated by an Intel
L250[19:38:19] <Althego> i heard about this some time ago. but i wrote it off as something stupid. and now they are really doing it
L251[19:39:27] <flayer> do you remember november 2016?
L252[19:39:35] <Althego> no, not really
L253[19:39:39] <flayer> honk honk
L254[19:39:54] <Althego> remember, remember, the fifth of november :)
L255[19:40:10] <flayer> https://guillotines.nl/media/1587660689956.png
L256[19:40:22] <Althego> hehehe
L257[19:40:40] <Althego> i think 2020 was my best year, everything considered
L258[19:40:49] <flayer> same here
L259[19:40:50] <Althego> exactly because of the virus
L260[19:41:14] <flayer> the virus had little impact, i think
L261[19:41:30] <flayer> it helped
L262[19:41:48] <flayer> its nice that people keep their distance
L263[19:41:53] <Althego> whole company working from home. which was actually always possible, we just never did it. this is what i always wanted
L264[19:42:06] <flayer> haha
L265[19:42:07] <Althego> doesnt matter where i log in from to a server to look at some code
L266[19:42:16] <flayer> indeed
L267[19:42:25] <flayer> its time to stop having large offices in buildings
L268[19:42:34] <flayer> long commutes to those buildings
L269[19:43:10] <Althego> funny thing is, i need the commute to read mangas. so i waste the exact same amount of time, just i am not travelling
L270[19:43:43] <flayer> you are depriving bus and train drivers of work!
L271[19:43:53] <Althego> not really
L272[19:44:11] <Althego> because they are already partially maintained by tax money
L273[19:44:31] <lordcirth> tax money that is justified by people using it
L274[19:45:05] <Althego> but i dont buy monthly passes because i dont need them
L275[19:47:03] <lordcirth> I've kept my monthly pass autorenewal going throughout the lockdown. They probably have enough problems.
L276[19:47:40] <Althego> hehe autorenewal. i doubt anything like that exists here
L277[19:47:50] <Althego> they are on paper. with human readable dates
L278[19:47:57] <Althego> absolutely dumb
L279[19:48:35] <lordcirth> They switched to a digital card last year. Also the card doesn't start working for like 2 days after you buy it, which was quite frustrating, considering the expiry notice was also sent out 2 days before.
L280[19:48:48] <lordcirth> But autorenewal takes care of that.
L281[19:49:23] <Althego> there has been some movement for years to have a digital system. countless amount of money spent, still nothing
L282[19:55:25] * raptop 's notable spending increase this year was upgrading my internet
L283[19:55:45] <raptop> As for transit passes, meh
L284[19:57:17] * raptop gets to use the city buses for free, and uses the WMATA buses/subway pretty rarely. Meanwhile the passes for those only offer savings if you use them for regular work commute, and even then only ~10-20%
L285[19:57:19] <Althego> at this point i just upgrade the net so that the company doesnt rip me off. they usually increase bandwidth in new payment packages but leave them in old. so i revisit them sometimes and upgrade. but the gain is not noticable
L286[19:58:14] <raptop> Also, fun fact: post-COVID, WMATA's bus system has higher ridership than its subway system
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L288[20:10:20] <Mat2ch> Althego: I like the paper stuff. It's anonymous.
L289[20:10:51] <Mat2ch> We have RFID cards here for some tickets and it's a pain in the thing you sit on
L290[20:11:00] <Althego> hehe
L291[20:11:08] <Althego> well yes they are trackable
L292[20:11:12] <Althego> so is my phone
L293[20:11:29] <Mat2ch> first of all, when you need one of the RFID cards it is impossible to get one. And there is no way the machine gives you a paper as fallback
L294[20:11:52] <Althego> also you movement pattern is kind of unique and easily identifyable without face (for example too low resolution camera)
L295[20:12:15] <Mat2ch> The last time I had to get such an RFID car I walked for like 5-7 km to get to a shop where they are sold with the ticket itself
L296[20:12:24] <Althego> lol
L297[20:12:35] <Althego> this doesnt sound like germany
L298[20:12:52] <Mat2ch> That are two things. The one thing is something I have to carry in my pocket the other thing has to be put up and is easily thrown off by a hat
L299[20:12:54] <Althego> some kind of alternate reality with italians or something
L300[20:13:33] <Mat2ch> we are slowly turning into 1970s Italy here. No offense to Italy btw. :P
L301[20:13:38] <Althego> i have the company card in my wallet, works through leather
L302[20:14:03] <Althego> so you have bud spencer movies and spaghetti westerns?
L303[20:14:05] <Mat2ch> Well, just make public transport free and you don't need all the paper work :P
L304[20:14:28] <Mat2ch> Bud Spencer movies... well, something like that, just way worse. :D
L305[20:16:49] <Althego> is tatort still running?
L306[20:17:56] <packbart> I guess so. Didn't watch it for quite some time now
L307[20:18:23] <Althego> hehe seems so. numbr of episodes 1145
L308[20:19:15] <packbart> not sure if they geo-restricted the downloads, though ( https://www.daserste.de/unterhaltung/krimi/tatort/videos/index.html )
L309[20:19:48] <Althego> they did
L310[20:19:52] <Althego> only germany
L311[20:19:57] <packbart> I usually "watch" the version with audio description, so I don't have to look at the screen the whole time
L312[20:19:58] <Althego> not that i wanted to watch it
L313[20:20:04] <packbart> well, typical bummer
L314[20:20:52] <packbart> (also the AD version gives more information that I would never register and doesn't have so many silent scenes where people just stare at each other)
L315[20:26:39] <Mat2ch> Althego: yes and it's going strong.
L316[20:26:58] <Mat2ch> Althego: need a copy? :P
L317[20:27:37] <Mat2ch> (just kidding, that would be piracy and I'm not doing such horrendous things!)
L318[20:31:38] <Mat2ch> oh, Tesla is allowed to work on their German factory again
L319[20:31:47] <Althego> some german tv series somehow made it here during the socialism. among these were derrick, tatort and ein fall für zwei. so i remember these from my childhood, havent watched them since then
L320[20:32:07] <flayer> i will have to find an efficient way of reaching kerbin + 10 days on kerbin's orbit
L321[20:32:21] <Althego> solar sails
L322[20:32:29] <flayer> within stock kerbin
L323[20:32:32] <flayer> kerbal
L324[20:32:38] <flayer> stock ksp
L325[20:32:45] <Althego> the docking port drive :)
L326[20:32:45] <lordcirth> flayer, like, 10 days ahead of Kerbin? why?
L327[20:33:25] <flayer> cause thats a place near kerbin in solar orbit that won't move in relation to kerbin
L328[20:34:10] <Althego> but what do you mean efficient?
L329[20:35:01] <Althego> to minmus i always go on an escape trajectory. which is usually still something like 2 days or so, but have to burn a lot of fuel at arrival
L330[20:36:29] <flayer> low fuel cost
L331[20:36:41] <flayer> moderate snacks cost
L332[20:39:47] <lordcirth> flayer, probably a Mun assist to eject; the angle would depend on your fuel/time tradeoff. I think doing one lap (year - 10d) and burning prograde to match Kerbin would be quite efficient
L333[20:39:57] <lordcirth> Not sure the optimal way to do it faster
L334[20:40:47] <flayer> i'm not subjecting my kerbonauts to a year in a tiny shuttle to get to the station
L335[20:40:53] <lordcirth> (That is, ejecting kerbin-retrograde)
L336[20:41:36] <lordcirth> Well, that is effectively an interplanetary transfer; look up trajectories other than hohmann?
L337[20:42:01] <flayer> what i will do instead is launch into a low kerbin orbit and fiddle with dials
L338[20:42:07] <Althego> is there anything more efficient than hohmann in ksp?
L339[20:42:17] <Althego> bi elliptic?
L340[20:42:46] <Althego> but i think in this case that wouldnt help
L341[20:42:58] <Althego> and all the others depend on multiple body physics
L342[20:45:24] <mrBlaQ> I think infinite fuel cheat is p efficient imo
L343[20:45:53] <Althego> so is the docking port drive, unless it was fixed in 1.11
L344[20:46:49] <lordcirth> If the Dv for a fast transfer is a lot, I would make a LV-N shuttle between KEO and the station, and an SSTO to it, if you want to be really fancy
L345[20:47:08] <Althego> and you could tank it up on minmus
L346[20:47:25] <Althego> so fuel becomes free
L347[20:47:44] <lordcirth> Indeed. Don't need much TWR to land on Minmus
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