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L18[04:24:44] <Althego> building a
helicopter with tail rotor is hard
L19[04:25:00] <Althego> i think i better go
with a dual rotor approach
L21[04:45:59] <Althego> hehe failed with
coaxiel setup too
L22[04:46:15] <Althego> with an a
even
L24[04:49:19] <Rolf> i remember when this
channel was busy all day long and night
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L26[04:51:44] <JVFoxy> I still have a
little ol' heli I made with firespitter mod
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L28[04:52:40] <JVFoxy> suppose I could try
making a heli in KSP, would have to download latest..
L29[04:53:11] <JVFoxy> make for interesting
mountain biome gathering
L30[04:53:57] <Althego> i suggest tilting
jets, you are better off
L31[04:55:17] *
JVFoxy pokes the website, "ok.. interesting, can download
older versions. nice"
L32[04:56:11] <JVFoxy> Althego: lol..
tilting? I used to fly with two mk1 command pods back to back with
a RT fuel tank in the middle. and 6 juno jet kits all around. RW
for control..
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L34[04:56:58] <JVFoxy> moves like snot...
just gotta be careful with landing at high alts
L35[04:57:51] <JVFoxy> ok.. maybe 'snot'
not a good term.. moves pretty frig'n fast
L36[04:57:53] <Althego> i dont understand
why i get a roll from a coaxial setup
L37[04:58:16] <JVFoxy> Althego: rotors
clipping into the hub?
L38[04:59:27] <Althego> they are attached
to it
L39[04:59:58] <JVFoxy> also, not sure if
KSP models gyroscopic effects on spinning parts properly.
Typically, when you pitch forward in a heli, it tends to want to
roll one way because of it
L40[05:00:20] <Althego> but the electric
motors and the blades are really op
L41[05:00:28] <JVFoxy> Althego: clipping..
as in when the hub is spinning, does it look like the blades aren't
keeping up and mash into it?
L42[05:01:00] <Althego> no, not
really
L43[05:01:03] <JVFoxy> I was watching
shadowzone's video on the new parts.. they were having issues as
well. Its like the parts weren't properly attached and
bending
L44[05:01:39] <Althego> but doesnt matter i
actually want to make a folded wing airplane with electric
props
L45[05:01:59] <Althego> since watching that
video i realized there is a mirroed variant for the blades
L46[05:02:45] <JVFoxy> I'mma try a heli
myself, see what I can come up with. My firespitter one was pretty
nice flying, looked good. Simple build but, was somewhat restricted
on things at the time
L47[05:02:58] <Althego> aha, i think i know
why. the direction of the yellow arrows flips on one side
L48[05:03:02] <Althego> that causes a
roll
L49[05:03:15] <JVFoxy> yellow arrows?
L50[05:03:51] <Althego> yellow arrow is
control surface lift
L51[05:04:00] <Althego> and apparently
rotors are rendered as such
L52[05:04:37] <Althego> no, wait, rotor is
purple and it also has yellow
L53[05:05:00] <Althego> may be the lift
difference in airflow
L54[05:05:10] <Althego> still shouldnt
matter for a coaxial
L55[05:07:03] <JVFoxy> depends... forward
movement, lower rotor will have higher lift on one side, upper
rottor opposite. Tends to cause a slight imbalance
L56[05:09:29] <Althego> yes, looks like it
is because of the asymmetry of lift
L57[05:09:43] <Althego> but still, it
should be the same for both rotors and cancel out
L58[05:09:47] <JVFoxy> gah..! so used to
running KSP without music. Finally loads and blame audio
L59[05:09:56] <JVFoxy> *blam
L60[05:10:25] <Althego> maybe they dont
have the exact angles
L61[05:10:28] <JVFoxy> are you rotors side
by side or on top of each ohter?
L62[05:10:32] <Althego> so this failed
too
L63[05:10:51] <Althego> we really need a
collective :)
L64[05:15:24] <JVFoxy> ok finally got in
game...
L65[05:15:30] <JVFoxy> see what we got
going on here..
L66[05:16:15] <Althego> actually you can
couple the electric motors to throttle
L67[05:16:20] <Althego> so it is kind of
ok
L68[05:17:35] <JVFoxy> lol.. kill ambience
sound in SPH... wanna music instead
L71[05:19:10] <Althego> although in realyt
it was probably the small wings that helped, autorotation probably
not simulated
L72[05:19:36] <JVFoxy> oh wait.. is rotors
an expansion thing?
L73[05:20:10] <Althego> breaking
grounds
L74[05:20:16] <Althego> or whatever it is
called
L75[05:20:24] <Althego> now i am patiently
waiting for my submarine parts :)
L76[05:20:52] <Althego> the props should
work in water too
L77[05:21:02] <Althego> juts as jets
do
L78[05:21:08] <JVFoxy> ok.. n/m then. I
never got either expansion. :\
L79[05:23:36] <JVFoxy> ya.. I fail..
eh..
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L83[06:04:01] <Althego> i think i know what
the problem with the helicopter was, at least partially. that
couldnt cause a roll, but for a coutner rotating blade, you need to
change motor direction, blade variant and deploy angle
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L87[06:08:20] <Althego> i wonder what
happens to kerbals when the blades hit them
L88[06:08:34] <Althego> danny is probably
already making a video about that
L90[06:11:31] <Rolf> he will also somehow
make it shatter world also
L91[06:11:54] <Rolf> his earlier world
breaker was using kerbals and 2 claws after all
L92[06:13:39] <Althego> the problem is i
cant use brakes and also let the props running
L93[06:14:23] <Althego> but i can builda
test craft for this
L94[06:15:17] <packbart> Murphy's Law is
unconstitutional.
L95[06:15:28] <packbart> Althego: you could
set the rotor brake force to 0
L96[06:15:32] <Rolf> dont... tempt
Murphy
L97[06:15:37] <Althego> doesnt help
L98[06:15:49] <Rolf> set it to -10 :P
L99[06:15:59] <Rolf> wonder if its possible
by editing files
L100[06:16:57] <packbart> so, the recent
SmokeScreen update is throwing NREs. I might just get rid of
RealPlume and go back to stock exhaust
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L102[06:19:56] <Althego> the helmet
protects against blade impact
L103[06:36:46] <JVFoxy> well kinda makes
sense
L104[06:36:56] <JVFoxy> you've seen them
fall on their heads and not a scratch
L105[06:38:22] <Rolf> the helmet own
all
L106[06:38:43] <Rolf> jv theres video
where one kerbal deorbited and landed without any ship
L107[06:38:51] <Rolf> trick was to land on
helmet first, then butt
L108[06:39:11] <Rolf> and it was hard
trick, guy retried bunch times
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L110[06:44:46] <packbart> From LKO, it's
easy. I did that a few times now to pilots to be rescued ;)
L111[06:46:14] <packbart> Look retrograde
to the horizon, burn the jetpack down to ~0.3 fuel, then turn
sideways and punch through the atmosphere, turn into the wind after
the firewarks and deploy chute
L112[06:46:49] <Rolf> they have crutes
now?
L113[06:47:01] <Althego> but only from 3
stars
L114[06:47:05] <Rolf> video was pretty
old. and it was... lathobrake not water or crute
L115[06:47:08] <packbart> no-star pilots
have chutes from the beginning
L116[06:47:17] <Althego> hmm
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L118[07:58:48] ***
Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
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L128[08:52:44] <Althego> apparently the
props are not so happy on duna
L129[08:53:22] <taniwha> I can't imagine
why
L130[08:53:36] <Althego> they prduce 0
thrust
L131[08:53:59] <taniwha> they produce 0
thrust on Kerbin, too
L132[08:54:23] <Rolf> eve?
L133[08:54:33] <taniwha> they use lift,
not thrust :)
L134[08:54:44] <Rolf> lol
L135[08:55:04] <taniwha> (but if they
actually don't work on duna, that's a problem)
L136[08:55:40] <Althego> maybe changeing
the blade angles would help
L137[08:55:53] <Althego> but that is
probably not simulated
L138[08:56:13] <taniwha> they're lift
surfaces
L139[08:56:31] <taniwha> it might well be
that duna's air is too thin
L140[08:56:50] <Rolf> thats what made me
wonder how well it would work on eve
L141[08:57:03] <Althego> it wasnt too thin
to glide
L142[08:57:07] ⇦
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L143[08:57:11] <Althego> we know they work
in eve
L144[08:57:13] <Althego> see matt
lowne
L145[08:57:24] <Rolf> lol ok
L146[08:57:43] <taniwha> Althego: wings
are generally a darn sight larger than prop blades
L147[08:58:28] <Althego> they also move
with different speeds
L148[09:03:27] <Althego> 8300 m on kerbin,
still climbing
L149[09:03:52] <Althego> highly visible
forces on the blades
L150[09:04:10] <taniwha> what's the air
density?
L151[09:04:21] <Althego> i forgot to pack
a science instrument
L152[09:04:32] <taniwha> aero gui
L153[09:04:41] <taniwha> (think it's in
alt-f12)
L154[09:04:57] <taniwha> and I /think/ it
has density
L155[09:06:11] <Althego> static pressure
24.5 kpascal, density 0.37 kg/m^3
L156[09:06:22] <Althego> went up to around
8800 m
L157[09:06:31] <taniwha> ok, now compare
with Duna
L158[09:06:35] <Althego> while at around
500 m asl there was 0 force on duna
L159[09:08:17] <Althego> based on the wiki
duna has around 6.75 kPa on sea level, so it means it is indeed too
thin
L160[09:08:25] <Althego> even if it has
higher density
L161[09:08:32] <taniwha> don't trust the
wiki
L162[09:08:58] <taniwha> but yeah,
6.75/24.5 is quite a bit lower
L163[09:09:42] <Althego> still i expected
at least some small thrust
L164[09:09:44] <Althego> not 0
L165[09:10:00] <Althego> ok, the arrows
may have been just almost zero lenght
L166[09:10:20] <taniwha> yeah, hard to
tell when they're that small
L167[09:10:44] <taniwha> btw, density ~=
P/(RT)
L168[09:10:58] <taniwha> (depends on molar
mass)
L169[09:26:35] <Eddi|zuHause> if you're
using ~= you can drop the R (it's a constant anyway)
L170[09:26:54] <taniwha> true
L171[09:28:03] <taniwha> hmm, 4 part ship,
1640 verts?!?
L172[09:28:29] <taniwha> I guess they add
up fast
L173[09:29:04] <Eddi|zuHause>
circles?
L174[09:29:23] <taniwha> sorry, 5 part
(tired)
L175[09:29:36] <taniwha> 3 whip antennas,
a pod, and EL's micro pad
L176[09:29:45] <taniwha> (mk1 lander
can)
L177[09:29:57] <taniwha> so yeah, a few
circles
L178[09:30:03] <taniwha> just surprised
it's *that* many
L179[09:30:19] <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine
circles are a pain if you're limited to straight lines
L180[09:30:21] <taniwha> and it broke my
quickhull code :(
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L184[09:41:26] <Althego> i think they
messed up the deploy speed of the blades. it is fast in the air,
and slow in the hangar
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L187[09:53:38] <taniwha>
data/micropadtest-points.bin.gz - 1640 points
L188[09:53:38] <taniwha> - 144 faces
5ms
L189[09:53:40] <taniwha> fixed :)
L190[09:53:58] <taniwha> this time, just
tweaking epsilon and when I use it
L191[09:54:46] <taniwha> (instead of much
heavy lifting in code)
L192[10:09:45] <taniwha> Eddi|zuHause:
here's the point cloud for those 1640 verts:
http://taniwha.org/~bill/mk1lk-pointcloud.png
L193[10:10:05] <Althego> it can easily fly
on eve above 12 km
L194[10:10:54] <taniwha> Althego: fly? or
swim?
L195[10:11:07] <Althego> hehe
L196[10:11:30] <Althego> 120 kPa, that is
probably not supercritical yet
L197[10:11:47] <taniwha> 1.2atm
L198[10:12:07] <taniwha> oh, I see,
yeah
L199[10:12:35] <taniwha> took me a moment
to realise you meant the physical sense
L200[10:13:15] <taniwha> (I've been
fighting with quickhull for two days, so rather tired)
L201[10:20:53] <Althego> 14 km is service
ceiling for this thing
L202[10:21:13] <Althego> can do zoom
climbs higher but the max is maybe 14.5 km
L203[10:21:46] <Althego> now i have to
come up with foldable wings that dont make it completely
wobbly
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L205[10:30:05] <Althego> maybe if i folded
the wings in half, like carrier based planes do
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L216[11:33:36] <SnackMonger> Is it more
efficient for a mining base to process ores directly and deliver
the fuel with a shuttle or to transport the ores to a station which
processes it?
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L222[11:56:06] <packbart> I
L223[11:56:34] <packbart> I guess most
efficient is to launch just the fuel and keep the heavy drills and
ISRUs on the surface
L224[11:57:33] <packbart> narf, now I am
getting spammed with NaN messages from a seismic thingy without
power
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L226[12:07:29] <Neal> all the headlines
are saying tiangong 2 is going to reenter under control
L227[12:07:37] <Neal> I thought it had
been out of control for years?
L228[12:12:12] <Althego> what does the
scott say? :)
L229[12:12:31] <Althego> wasnt it the
previous one?
L230[12:13:13] <packbart> yeah, I thought
the uncontrolled station had already come down
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L232[12:14:14] <packbart> ah, right, that
was -1. "Tiangong-1 started reentry over the southern Pacific
Ocean, northwest of Tahiti, on 2 April 2018"
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L248[13:31:15] <Althego> the helicopter
blades generate qiute a big lift, but they just dont work right,
always make the plane uncontrollable
L249[13:41:46] <Althego> apparently you
cant autostrut something on a robotic segment to an other
segment
L250[13:42:06] <Althego> the osprey
thingie i was trying to build is not working this way
L251[13:45:30] <Althego> lol roll started
to control yaw somehow
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L254[14:01:14] <Althego> after all these
changes with the blades now the left engine doesnt generate thrust
anymore. after a while. it startr out ok
L255[14:15:43] <Althego> seems to be
because of speed, in dive the other one stops too, but somewhat
later
L256[14:20:26] <Althego> took down the
blades from the attachment nodes and put them on not on the nodes,
now they are symmetric
L257[14:20:56] <Althego> those nodes are
useless anyway, they do not change the number of blades even if
there are blades on them
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L287[16:50:28] <UmbralRaptop> "If you
can think of any character who isn't dead, please let me know, this
is probably a continuity error."
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L290[17:03:51] <JVFoxy> Huh... kerbals can
be impressed? "A return trip from the Mun?! This mission log
correct? Incredable!" Mind you.. this was on day 2, flyby with
a probe and some science. Also, wasn't expecting 350 or so
sci
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L292[17:05:45] <JVFoxy> Also, level 1
everything, less than 18 tons, 30 parts.. did have to 'cook' the
rocket a bit before getting up to LKO.. just a little
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L294[17:09:01] <packbart> from what I've
read, a little bit of cooking is a most efficient ascent
L295[17:09:54] <packbart> as long as
nothing overheats, the drag costs less dV than turning later
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L297[17:13:20] <JVFoxy> first attempt,
fairing got pretty red
L298[17:15:15] <JVFoxy> I usually built my
stuff single booster stage to orbit, then the service engine on
orbit.. I was a little concerned about shortening the booster so I
could add an intermediate stage. Then, it not having fins when I
dropped the booster.
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L300[17:19:37] <JVFoxy> now I've done that
one mission, its opened up quite a number of paths.. trouble is, I
have KIS/KAS and think I need to start reading up on things
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L303[18:14:54] <LupiDragon> @lordcirth_
that's with the RTG. you can see it there in the noncollidable part
of the battery sorry i fell asleep and forgot
L304[18:15:03] <LupiDragon> also 1.07
tons
L305[18:15:26] <LupiDragon> also oh
they're gone
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L308[18:52:18] <lordcirth_> LupiDragon,
so, what % of the EC consumption is handled by the RTG? What about
2 RTGs?
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L313[19:14:48] <packbart> the hinges got a
bit out of whack and don't point in the same direction anymore as
before
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L322[21:16:39] <LupiDragon> @lordcirth_ it
only needs the one. I was able to get it to fly sustainably, but it
didn't climb very well. Also, the real dragonfly works off
batteries and trickle-charging between flight
L323[21:16:59] <LupiDragon> so i tuned it
down for more power at the "expense" of limited flight
duration
L324[21:40:30] <lordcirth> Makes
sense
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