OCLogs: 2019-06-14.log

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L2[00:04:02] <Eddi|zuHause> check how your CoM is positioned wrt the CoL, especially as fuel gets depleted

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L4[00:04:37] <Eddi|zuHause> ... ok

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L6[00:05:32] <umaxtu_mobile> huh

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L10[00:08:39] <manifold> I don't see how to upload an image.

L11[00:09:22] <Eddi|zuHause> there's a dozen image paste hosts around

L12[00:09:35] <Eddi|zuHause> just google one

L13[00:10:50] <manifold> https://imgur.com/qcHaBUF

L14[00:10:50] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/qcHaBUF.png

L15[00:11:30] <Althego> https://newatlas.com/etpack-satellite-deorbit-tape/60100/

L16[00:11:42] <Eddi|zuHause> manifold: there's 3 buttons on the lower left, next to the cost. they show you center of lift/mass/thrust

L17[00:11:54] <JVFoxy> heh.. lil'screen

L18[00:12:30] <Althego> the leaning is because of the fins

L19[00:12:46] <Althego> however if you remove them, it may want to turn backwards

L20[00:12:54] <manifold> https://imgur.com/wQIHofu

L21[00:12:55] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/wQIHofu.png

L22[00:13:07] <Althego> you can go with the smallest fins for stability if the big ones are too much

L23[00:13:32] <manifold> I hadn't thought of that. Thanks.

L24[00:13:36] <Eddi|zuHause> manifold: you want the center of mass (yellow dot) to be below the center of lift (blue dot), and be aware that the yellow dot moves when fuel gets used up

L25[00:13:54] <Althego> and you can add 6-8-12 or even 18 of the smaller ones if they are not enough

L26[00:14:38] <JVFoxy> miniscule lean is usually expected in normal gameplay even if you get everything exactly perfect.. or so I've seen

L27[00:14:39] <Eddi|zuHause> manifold: you can simulate fuel being used up by right-clicking a tank and moving the slider how much fuel it stores

L28[00:14:55] <manifold> So confused.

L29[00:15:15] <manifold> I thought it was supposed to be the other way.

L30[00:15:21] <Eddi|zuHause> hm, might be

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L32[00:15:34] <Eddi|zuHause> it's entirely possible i swapped it

L33[00:15:43] <umaxtu_mobile> I think you did

L34[00:15:57] <Althego> https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/6/18655500/nasas-mars-helicopter-2020-launch-rover-test-martian-atmosphere

L35[00:15:58] <manifold> Where do we look this up?

L36[00:16:00] <Eddi|zuHause> well, then ignore me

L37[00:16:32] <JVFoxy> what did you mix up?

L38[00:17:30] <Eddi|zuHause> which way around the center of mass/lift goes

L39[00:17:57] <JVFoxy> yellow is mass, blue is lift, yellow mass above lift

L40[00:18:04] <Althego> for stability

L41[00:19:05] <JVFoxy> trouble is, it only accounts for lift, not drag... sort of misleading a bit but...

L42[00:19:16] <JVFoxy> ya, think of it as a weather vane

L43[00:19:32] <manifold> That would be drag that matters then.

L44[00:19:50] <JVFoxy> it will always point in direction of wind. If you put aero ahead, it wants to flip around. But because so does your engine if its not setup right, it keeps wanting to flip

L45[00:20:26] <manifold> Flipping is not the problem I'm having at the moment.

L46[00:20:42] <JVFoxy> I woudn't worry too much about drag early on till you get the fairings

L47[00:20:59] <JVFoxy> the lean? how much of a lean is it though?

L48[00:21:17] <manifold> It's very gradual. Initially it's not much.

L49[00:21:30] <JVFoxy> there will be a little wobble intially at launch

L50[00:21:38] <manifold> But eventually you can't compensate for it.

L51[00:21:39] <JVFoxy> ah..

L52[00:21:50] <JVFoxy> do you push over hard early on to get it going east?

L53[00:22:42] <manifold> 10 degrees

L54[00:23:13] <JVFoxy> also its not the reliant version of the LT engine?

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L56[00:23:25] <JVFoxy> oop

L57[00:24:25] <JVFoxy> sorry, thought they had pushed over too hard and was having troubles overcoming the ballistics

L58[00:24:40] <umaxtu_mobile> thats what it sounds like

L59[00:25:12] <JVFoxy> finds shouldn't be too big an issue, long as its evenly spaced around and 3 or more

L60[00:25:16] <JVFoxy> fins

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L62[00:29:23] <manifold> Wow. I just lost the whole conversation we were having.

L63[00:29:52] <JVFoxy> sometimes happens...

L64[00:30:05] <manifold> (From memory) Nope, it's the swivel.

L65[00:30:10] <JVFoxy> ok..

L66[00:30:33] <JVFoxy> so.. you launch, pitch a bit. Then its like having a hard time staying pitched up as the flight arcs over?

L67[00:30:43] <manifold> Exactly.

L68[00:30:51] <JVFoxy> you familiar with ballistics?

L69[00:30:59] <manifold> Yes.

L70[00:31:22] <JVFoxy> suggest maybe pitching over half as much after launching see what happens?

L71[00:31:24] <Althego> your rocket turned into lawn dart or shuttlecock

L72[00:31:40] <manifold> Big fins that force a prograde orientation.

L73[00:32:03] <manifold> I wondered if that was the issue.

L74[00:32:11] <JVFoxy> fins only part of the solution, they mostly help keep you pointed in the right direction, counter drag up front

L75[00:32:33] <manifold> So smaller fins may help?

L76[00:33:08] <JVFoxy> can try but I think you falling into the ballistics a little hard. Pitched over too early

L77[00:33:13] <JVFoxy> or too hard

L78[00:33:55] <manifold> I could start my turn later.

L79[00:34:13] <JVFoxy> there is that too, but don't wait too long

L80[00:35:08] <JVFoxy> it'll probably take a number of tries to get a sense of how things work

L81[00:35:59] <manifold> Is it possible to try without fins entirely. Wheels instead?

L82[00:36:25] <manifold> Would that restrict me less to the ballistic trajectory?

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L84[00:37:04] <JVFoxy> you'll still ballistic unless you can get up the speed to counter it

L85[00:37:23] <JVFoxy> it wouldn't be ideal

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L90[00:44:27] <manifold> Every time it says "Waiting to reconnect..." it never does.

L91[00:45:44] <manifold> Ok, so the restoring force to the ballistic trajectory is just a fact of life.

L92[00:46:44] <JVFoxy> well.. you could counter it if not going fast enough, either by thrusting up more, or wings..

L93[00:47:00] <JVFoxy> tends to involve more drag though

L94[00:47:37] <JVFoxy> on your launch.. try a tiny push to the east. A few degrees, see what happens

L95[00:47:48] <manifold> I'll give it a try.

L96[00:47:49] <manifold> Thanks.

L97[00:47:59] <JVFoxy> its what we here for

L98[00:48:03] <manifold> Thanks also to Althego.

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L104[02:23:25] <darsie> I'd prefer KSP not to switch to its window again after it opened it on Linux.

L105[02:24:06] <packbart> that's probably Unity's doing

L106[02:24:21] <darsie> ok

L107[02:28:18] <JVFoxy> switch out of ksp.. it goes into background, doesn't stay

L108[02:28:39] <JVFoxy> of course.. loading it, causes it to fight for focus for the first little bit

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L110[03:11:07] <darsie> I have to babysit my fuel production, because the universal rotation occasionally (anti)aligns my solar panels with the sun, and so my drills stop.

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L113[04:13:29] <darsie> more batteries would fix it.

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L145[08:08:00] <darsie> I sent an improved asteroid miner to my asteroid and every time I timewarp on/off the miner shifts and tilts a bit more till it explodes :(.

L146[08:08:20] <darsie> Same with 7.0.2.

L147[08:08:23] <darsie> and .0

L148[08:08:30] <packbart> yeah, heavy stuff on heavy asteroids does weird things in timewarp

L149[08:08:35] <darsie> 1.7.0/2

L150[08:09:04] <darsie> I didn't change the attach part.

L151[08:09:21] <darsie> hmm, I'll remove an autostrut ...

L152[08:09:55] <packbart> you could try and autostrut the asteroid part to the root

L153[08:10:14] <darsie> Yeah, doesn't happen with autostrut.

L154[08:10:17] <darsie> I'll try that ...

L155[08:11:03] <darsie> nope, that triggers it, too.

L156[08:11:24] <darsie> The autostrut fixed an oscillation.

L157[08:11:34] <darsie> But breaks with time warp.

L158[08:28:40] <darsie> I don't understand why my refinery produces 1.90 Ox and 1.56 LF (at 50x).

L159[08:32:04] <darsie> I have now an extra 4000 EC battery, so I won't run out of EC when the universal rotation turns my solar panels at the sun.

L160[08:34:10] <packbart> because engines need more Ox than LF

L161[08:36:25] <darsie> right, 9/11

L162[08:37:00] <darsie> I thought they mass both 5 kg/unit, which is irrelevant.

L163[08:42:21] <darsie> Asteroid miner refuelling the fuel depot: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot231.png

L164[09:05:16] <packbart> I built a 5-star turbo miner once. https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/ksprr2.jpg

L165[09:05:26] <packbart> shuttling enough fuel tanks around was a bit tedious

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L168[09:10:31] <darsie> hehe

L169[09:11:06] <darsie> Did you assemble that in space?

L170[09:15:52] <darsie> I tried to make a Christmas tree for Cristmas, with lots of antennas as needles. Bogged down my computer so much it didn't finish in time.

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L172[09:18:23] <darsie> s/Christmas/pagan

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L180[09:42:16] <Eddi|zuHause> is there even such a thing as a truely "christian" custom instead of ones adapted from other religions?

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L182[09:43:15] <Althego> nothing new under the sun

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L185[09:51:24] <Mat2ch> Eddi|zuHause: not really. Mainly inspired by Buddhism and many things seem to be just common sense...

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L192[10:00:13] <packbart> darsie: I launched it under a 5m fairing

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L194[10:00:33] <packbart> didn't have the GrobalConstruction mod installed then

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L204[11:19:55] <Eddi|zuHause> <JVFoxy> switch out of ksp.. it goes into background, doesn't stay <-- i've been fighting with that kind of re-focus for a long time with many programs, but i think it

L205[11:19:58] <Eddi|zuHause> got worse

L206[11:21:37] <Eddi|zuHause> like: if a program is in windowed mode, if i move the mouse into it, it gets focus, but stays in background. if it's fullscreen, it gets focus and also pulls to foreground

L207[11:22:15] <JVFoxy> Eddi|zuHause ah.. morning and ok

L208[11:22:33] <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the KDE people understood the problem i had with this behaviour

L209[11:23:03] <JVFoxy> I found out my video card has capture software that came with it, seems KSP doens't like overlays

L210[11:23:38] <JVFoxy> try to activate so I can adjust a setting, drops me out of ksp, to desktop. do the command again and capture software wakes up as if to say, "oh, /now/ you want it'

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L212[11:30:53] <packbart> Eddi|zuHause: KSP does it only once, when the loading screen appears. I can live with that

L213[11:31:15] <packbart> start, wait until the screen appears, then change desktops

L214[11:31:57] <Eddi|zuHause> the annoying part about that is, in that time i usually do some other random stuff

L215[11:32:17] <Eddi|zuHause> which will be interrupted by this things popping up

L216[11:32:33] <JVFoxy> I should also mention I've dual screens..

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L218[11:53:42] <Althego> hmm, day 13. i could still send bob to eve, not landing of course, but to orbit

L219[11:54:15] <Althego> or i could send him to duna, but in both cases it takes several hundred days

L220[11:55:33] <UmbralRaptop> For the purposes of this, they're probably duel screens

L221[11:56:04] <UmbralRaptop> Althego: land on Gilly?

L222[11:56:18] <Althego> that is basically free

L223[11:56:39] <Althego> or i can send him to just outside of soi and back

L224[11:57:03] <Althego> but even that is several days

L225[12:01:38] <Eddi|zuHause> i've still not understood which direction to burn to get back into kerbin SoI from a dip outside

L226[12:04:57] <Althego> i usually just turn around

L227[12:05:05] <UmbralRaptop> I'd go with directly back at Kerbin (ish)

L228[12:05:14] <Althego> but even without that, the node helps

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L231[12:15:02] <UmbralRaptop> maneuver.js

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L238[13:09:52] <Althego> scott

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L247[13:39:14] <jUMPSu1t> About to deorbit from my first succesful orbital mission! Super excited

L248[13:39:22] <jUMPSu1t> Anything I should know?

L249[13:39:47] <Ezriilc> Re-entry atmospheric heating is a thing.

L250[13:39:56] <Ezriilc> Good luck!

L251[13:40:08] <nj0rd> as is rapid unplanned deconstruction

L252[13:40:20] <Ezriilc> Only always.

L253[13:40:39] <jUMPSu1t> Heh. I have a heat shield and parachute, so I think I'm good to go.

L254[13:40:52] <jUMPSu1t> I've reentered from suborbital flights before.

L255[13:40:59] <jUMPSu1t> So I think I'm ready.

L256[13:41:30] <Ezriilc> Excellent. It sounds like you are.

L257[13:41:46] <nj0rd> jUMPSu1t: I found suborbital reentry harder in most cases - I guess due to the direction of the reentry

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L259[13:41:58] <nj0rd> you need to stop faster

L260[13:42:01] <Althego> try to keep the parachute away from the plasma :)

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L262[13:42:50] <jUMPSu1t> Where's UmbralRaptor?

L263[13:43:14] <JVFoxy> looks like they pinged out about 12 minutes ago

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L270[13:53:38] <jUMPSu1t> Alright, I splashed down. Can't see land anywhere, do you dare me to send a boat?

L271[13:54:04] <Althego> hehe

L272[13:54:18] <packbart> "Surface Deployed Seismic Sensor from Kerbin's surface generated 0.010 science" - Yay, that was just the solid boosters falling back into the desert

L273[13:54:28] <packbart> (the sensor sitting right next to KSC's runway)

L274[13:55:23] <JVFoxy> 0.01 huh? low value cuz of having many previous crashes I take it?

L275[13:56:13] <packbart> it was probably low energy and some 50% distance something. I didn't expect the expended boosters to generate any science :)

L276[13:58:02] <packbart> they don't generate any wen splashing into the waters east of KSC. it was just when I launched from the desert that this message suddely popped up during ascent

L277[13:58:22] <JVFoxy> manely: Prior to leaving the moon, astronauts through out their life support packs out the hatch. The seismic sensors they setup up earlier, even picked up the moment the packs hit the surface.

L278[13:58:39] <Eddi|zuHause> it would be a bit odd if splashing into the sea caused seismic events

L279[13:58:42] <JVFoxy> through... tossed.. oh well

L280[13:58:54] <JVFoxy> lol... tsunami!

L281[13:59:22] <JVFoxy> knowing some players, probably cause massive floodings of KSC

L282[13:59:47] <packbart> .oO(New Crater Sea)

L283[14:00:32] <Althego> i am down to 56k funds. but at least some science and money starts to flow in soon

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L286[14:07:59] <flayer> in a few years the scout for [really big asteroids] at a rare 37 whatever-vertical-angle-terms degrees

L287[14:08:11] <flayer> ....contract will complete, and i will have 2 million

L288[14:08:23] <flayer> [kerbucks]

L289[14:09:49] <JVFoxy> I turned a booster thing into a ad-hock OTV for a relay. Booster did a flyboy, dropping relay into mun orbit.

L290[14:10:03] <Althego> i had more than 3, but the science upgrade costs like 3.4

L291[14:10:48] <JVFoxy> I'd hoped to bring the 'OTV' back into kerbin orbit, 6 days out still but contract came up, 'adjust the orbit plane for money'. So... ya I accepted it. But now its just waiting

L292[14:11:21] <Althego> i almost never do orbit adjustments. each has it reason i dont change them

L293[14:11:34] <JVFoxy> I could afford it, just gotta wait.

L294[14:11:55] <Eddi|zuHause> weird, a song that has been in my playlist for many years turns out to be in 7/4 and i never noticed before

L295[14:12:39] <JVFoxy> altho.. its been a while, 6 days.. hmm. -checks something-

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L297[14:13:26] <JVFoxy> oh ya.. derp, not mun, minmus orbit

L298[14:15:22] <JVFoxy> what did I send over... oh landed probe.. ugh, doesn't show till I focus /and/ zoom in on minmus though.

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L317[16:30:33] * darsie met a magic class A asteroid: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot233.png

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L319[16:33:22] <nate> that's not a magic asteroid, that was sent from Klendathu to destroy kerbal

L320[16:33:23] <nate> :P

L321[16:34:19] <darsie> Fortunately it missed and is on an escape ellipse.

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L323[16:50:56] <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't an escape be either a parabola or a hyperbola, rather than an ellipse?

L324[16:53:17] <darsie> irl, yes.

L325[16:53:50] <darsie> But hey, ppl claim all the time if you throw something it follows a parabolic trajectory.

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L327[16:55:06] <darsie> Flat Earthers ...

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L329[17:45:53] <UmbralRaptor> Eddi|zuHause: in a universe with only one source of gravity, yes. But given the finite size of SOIs, escape ellipses are possible

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L344[19:39:22] <Guest58912> o

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L350[20:53:27] <jUMPSu1t> How do I select another Kerbal when I have one or more on an EVA?

L351[20:55:47] <umaxtu_mobile> square brackets

L352[20:56:33] <UmbralRaptop> ^this cycles through all EVAing kerbals, nearby craft, etc

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L354[21:01:56] <umaxtu_mobile> and if you cycle between them fast enough, your computer will burst into flames

L355[21:06:44] <UmbralRaptop> How much ΔV does a typical computer have?

L356[21:08:09] <umaxtu_mobile> what would a "typical" computer be at this point? A smartphone?

L357[21:12:22] <jUMPSu1t> Oh.

L358[21:12:25] <jUMPSu1t> Ok.

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L360[21:13:37] <UmbralRaptop> Probably something embedded?

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