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L1[00:01:11] <Eddi|zuHause> yes
L2[00:01:40] <Eddi|zuHause> (i haven't actually watched simpsons in like 5 years)
L3[00:16:46] <sandbox> I used to keep track of all the episodes I'd seen
L4[00:18:14] ⇨ Joins: GlassYuri (GlassYuri!~GlassYuri@120-51-212-62.tokyo.fdn.vectant.ne.jp)
L5[00:18:21] ⇨ Joins: iamfishhead (iamfishhead!~fishhead@2601:643:8100:1f10:a166:c7db:d24f:f0dd)
L6[00:25:19] ⇨ Joins: Lyneira (Lyneira!~konversat@2001:984:484e:1:20c:29ff:fea6:d040)
L7[01:11:25] <darsie> Where in the VAB is the TACLS Liquid O2 to O2 converter? In the R&D it's in Improved Power Generation and Storage. Can't find it in the electrics section and I've also used the search function. http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot20.png
L8[01:12:14] <Althego> where on earth is carmen sandiago
L9[01:37:28] ⇨ Joins: kubi (kubi!~kubi@2001:1ba8:1130:f000:7a24:afff:fe8a:84f7)
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L11[01:38:04] <kbuck> oh boy
L12[01:38:23] <DorothyTR> I'm here
L13[01:38:54] <kbuck> so am I
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L15[02:04:59] <Althego> hehe
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L23[03:18:46] <quibbit> hey
L24[03:18:47] <quibbit> http://omega.e-sim.org/lan.87/ E-sim economy and battle game join your country and conquer the world. Server is new!!! Very simple and nice game just try if you want you pm me also you can suggest me any browser game you played with your referer o/
L25[03:19:31] ⇦ Quits: quibbit (quibbit!Mibbit@94.120.98.146) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
L26[03:23:47] <Rolf> no.
L27[03:25:26] <UmbralRaptor> kbuck: guess one got through?
L28[03:26:24] <JVFoxy> derp..
L29[03:28:09] <OneNick340Days> they do from time to time
L30[03:29:23] <JVFoxy> ... like anyone would fall for it..
L31[03:33:16] <OneNick340Days> the ones that do are also the ones likely to enter their CC data on any random website
L32[03:34:52] *** OneNick340Days is now known as OneNick339Days
L33[03:54:10] <Althego> but why are they not using boring company flamethrowers https://www.bmeme.hu/memes/2019/01/8577_6i2wrq5j05_normal.jpg
L34[04:05:58] <Rolf> probably because its boring ;)
L35[04:06:33] <Althego> oh wait
L36[04:06:38] <Althego> i didnt want to link this
L37[04:06:46] <Althego> ok, not bad but still
L38[04:07:06] <Althego> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1088680182540464128
L39[04:07:06] <kmath> <✔elonmusk> Testing metallic heat shield at 1100C (2000F) @SpaceX https://t.co/frP5eZ5a0z
L40[04:24:02] * JVFoxy just spotted a report someone on the ISS accidentally dialed 911.. c.c
L41[04:24:16] <Althego> lol
L42[04:24:22] <Althego> no way to get there
L43[04:25:44] <Rolf> in least it wasnt from your stash alt ;)
L44[04:26:00] <JVFoxy> http://twiar.net/2019/01/09/an-astronaut-accidentally-dialed-911-from-the-international-space-station/
L45[04:26:05] <Althego> i dont have a stash
L46[04:26:21] <Rolf> yeah nobody has em
L47[04:26:32] <Althego> ok, dutch, probably they dont have 911, because that is american
L48[04:26:34] <JVFoxy> so like... ISS has a proper phone sorta thing you can dial out from?
L49[04:26:35] <Rolf> honestly dont have one also but negative is always hard to prve
L50[04:27:05] <Althego> also outside number prefix is typically 0
L51[04:27:11] <Althego> who chose 9 for that
L52[04:29:29] <JVFoxy> ugh actually now I that I remember, my foster family phone number had one digit then 911 and then three more numbers on it back before area code had to be included. Miss the first digit, it ignored everything else and went through as 911
L53[04:29:37] <Althego> the existence of these prefixes is one of the reasons i prefer my phone over a landline even if i am in roaming
L54[04:30:14] <Rolf> jv lol ouch wonder many people called 911 trying to call your foster family
L55[04:30:22] <Althego> hehe probably the routing rule was set to prefix instead of complete match
L56[04:31:24] <taniwha> better a false call to 911 than a lost call to 911 due to someone pusing 1 too many times
L57[04:31:27] <JVFoxy> actually, it only slipped twice...
L58[04:31:31] <taniwha> (or some other fumble)
L59[04:32:08] <JVFoxy> I was like 'crap sorry, stupid home phone number, missed a number...
L60[04:34:12] <JVFoxy> any case.. I was trying to see what was going on with AO-85 and AO-95 recently. -85 jsut came out of slumber, in safe mode for the moment. (they worried battery may have been damage). I wanted to see any new changes to -95's radio status or if its just dead in space now
L61[04:34:51] <JVFoxy> AO- are designations for armature ham satellites..
L62[04:35:07] <JVFoxy> amateur (ugh auto spell)
L63[04:39:40] <sandbox> my dad called for an ambulance last night.. I think he used 112
L64[04:39:56] <Althego> yes it is 112 in eu
L65[04:40:01] <JVFoxy> hope he's ok?
L66[04:40:46] <JVFoxy> or.. whoever
L67[04:40:58] <sandbox> yeah, it was for him
L68[04:41:30] <sandbox> he seemed a bit confused about which number to call
L69[04:42:26] <sandbox> he said something like "what's the number for 911?"
L70[04:42:48] <Althego> hehe american culture spread through movies
L71[04:43:25] <JVFoxy> well considering 911 could be just meaning EMS
L72[04:44:14] <sandbox> the emergency number here in the UK is 999 (112 works as well), but I think he wanted the non-emergency number
L73[04:44:49] <JVFoxy> its 0 for operator here in NA... same as over the pond or?
L74[04:45:11] <sandbox> I wouldn't know these days either
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L77[05:37:51] <Althego> eh, i was eating some cucumbers and the last one, when i took the first bite, sprinkled the monitor and the wall above it with fluids
L78[05:38:33] <Althego> probably there will be some permanent stains on the wall
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L80[05:42:09] <Althego> at least the screen is now clean :)
L81[05:44:28] <sandbox> eep, someone else has had to phone 999
L82[05:44:41] <sandbox> house fire not too far away from here
L83[05:55:22] <Althego> are you an incident magnet?
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L85[06:16:11] ⇦ Quits: Pytagoras (Pytagoras!~Pytagoras@ti0037a400-2039.bb.online.no) ()
L86[06:17:40] <Fluburtur> it is only 8°c outside but it feels warmer
L87[06:18:47] <Althego> good for you. it is around 0 here
L88[06:19:18] <Fluburtur> it is 18°c in my room but it feels a lot colder
L89[06:19:38] <APlayer> A few weeks ago, the weather report said -273 (° C) here
L90[06:19:42] <Althego> that is already getting cold for me
L91[06:19:46] <Althego> lol
L92[06:19:50] <APlayer> Only for a day, thankfully
L93[06:19:52] <Fluburtur> heh
L94[06:20:02] ⇨ Joins: Pytagoras (Pytagoras!~Pytagoras@ti0037a400-2039.bb.online.no)
L95[06:20:22] <Althego> how funny would it be if at least some point on earth it could get so cold that a component of air liquifies
L96[06:20:41] <APlayer> "whoosh", the tornado said
L97[06:20:41] <Althego> that would create a low pressure that sucks in more air to liquify
L98[06:21:20] <Fluburtur> there are probably some places on earth that are cold enough for dry ice to form
L99[06:21:25] <Fluburtur> or at least, not evaporate
L100[06:21:29] <APlayer> "whoosh", the wave of liquid oxygen said
L101[06:21:56] <Althego> dont you want to swim in the lakes of titan?
L102[06:22:17] <APlayer> "Aaaaaa", the swimmer in a lake of molten titanium said
L103[06:22:28] <Althego> actually liquid methane
L104[06:22:30] * APlayer stops
L105[06:23:07] <APlayer> Well, you need to admit, liquid methane does not sound nearly as exciting as liquid titanium :P
L106[06:23:25] <Althego> but you cant swim in molten metals, too dense
L107[06:23:47] <APlayer> So you would probably sink in liquid methane
L108[06:24:00] <APlayer> (It's /you/ who is too dense!)
L109[06:24:03] <Althego> hehe
L110[06:24:19] <Althego> obviously, anybody who is trying to swim in a cryogenic liquid, cant be too smart :)
L111[06:24:20] <Fluburtur> I heard taking a mercury bath is hard
L112[06:24:52] <APlayer> For that matter, we are discussing a whole range of liquids that are hard to take baths in
L113[06:26:28] <APlayer> OTOH, we don't know about the density of liquid methane under titan's atmospheric pressure. Is it significantly different from liquid methane at 1013 hPa?
L114[06:26:48] <Althego> liquids are uncompressable
L115[06:26:57] <APlayer> That's an approximation :-)
L116[06:27:19] <Althego> well, they might be a a tiny bit, but doesnt really matter for density
L117[06:27:45] <Althego> at least somebody needs to build a kerbal and a sandcastle from the mud on the lake shores :)
L118[06:28:22] <APlayer> A fish can only change depth because water is compressible which changes its density
L119[06:29:37] <Althego> unrelated. a fish can change its own density
L120[06:30:05] <APlayer> But it maintains a specific depth by matching its density to that of the water at said depth
L121[06:30:28] <Althego> and it could do that even if densoty ws constant
L122[06:30:48] <Althego> for sinking it either swims down or changed densoty to sink, then readjust again to float
L123[06:31:12] <Althego> but yes, there must be a small densoty difference
L124[06:31:38] <Althego> just not too much. and as far as i remember titan has around earth level pressure, maybe a bit more
L125[06:31:49] <APlayer> I suppose it worky without a density gradient, alright
L126[06:31:54] <APlayer> works*
L127[06:32:03] <APlayer> Fishy swimmy worky
L128[06:32:35] <Althego> unless it has some bladder problem. you can see that when it struggles to swim down or up
L129[06:32:59] <Eddi|zuHause> is the density difference from pressure bigger than the density difference from salt content?
L130[06:33:28] <APlayer> 1.45 atm according to Wikipedia.
L131[06:33:32] <APlayer> At Titan, that is
L132[06:33:45] <APlayer> I had a number like 4 or 5 atm in mind
L133[06:34:03] <Althego> i know sweet water in oceans can cause problems, animals sink in it and stuff
L134[06:34:59] <Eddi|zuHause> so the answer is probably reverse
L135[06:35:50] <Althego> The bulk modulus of water is about 2.2 GPa.[40] The low compressibility of non-gases, and of water in particular, leads to their often being assumed as incompressible. The low compressibility of water means that even in the deep oceans at 4 km depth, where pressures are 40 MPa, there is only a 1.8% decrease in volume.[40]
L136[06:36:12] <APlayer> Why do they quote the same source twice in a row?
L137[06:36:24] <Althego> for different data
L138[06:36:42] <Althego> there is a whole article for properties of water
L139[06:36:57] <Eddi|zuHause> what's a "bulk modulus"?
L140[06:37:01] <APlayer> Wouldn't that require quoting once or quoting twice and more specifically (as in, where in the source paper the data is mentioned)?
L141[06:37:02] <Althego> i dont know
L142[06:37:32] <Althego> local leet time
L143[06:38:15] <APlayer> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/permot3.html
L144[06:40:57] <Althego> supposedly hydrostatic lift works because of the pressure difference between the top and bottom. but what happens if you put a thin sheet of material completely horizontally in a liquid?
L145[06:41:03] <Althego> would that negate lift?
L146[06:41:43] <APlayer> I suppose the thinner your sheet, the less mass it has
L147[06:41:56] <APlayer> Because a = F/m, thickness cancels out
L148[06:42:13] <Althego> it still has densoty
L149[06:42:19] <Althego> i cant write that word lol
L150[06:42:36] <APlayer> And width/length also cancels out, because more liquid is displaced the greater the area of your sheet is
L151[06:43:27] <APlayer> I mean, thin sheet = less pressure difference (= less F), but also less mass (= less m)
L152[06:43:44] <Althego> but the formula is for density
L153[06:43:48] <Althego> so the mass wouldnt matter
L154[06:43:54] <Althego> yet it requires pressure difference
L155[06:44:03] <APlayer> Density is mass per volume
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L157[06:44:20] <APlayer> Volume is constant (and if it is not, neither is mass)
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L159[06:44:55] <Althego> yes thin sheet means less weight but it still means proportionally less lift too, so they should keep the ratio
L160[06:45:25] <APlayer> So hydrostatic lift still applies to very thin sheets
L161[06:45:34] <Fluburtur> https://youtu.be/e3jRZgqhqoU
L162[06:45:34] <kmath> YouTube - Brushless R/C ROCKET Vertical Landing Test #2 - RCTESTFLIGHT
L163[06:45:45] <APlayer> Because the pressure gradient to mass ratio remains constant
L164[06:45:49] <Althego> but i guess if i imagine a single molecule of material, that would feel brownian motion more than lift
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L166[06:46:27] <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the concept of "density" works for single molecules
L167[06:46:42] <APlayer> Volume does not work for single molecules
L168[06:47:46] <Eddi|zuHause> and even the thinnest metal sheets ever produced were like 3 layers of atoms thick
L169[06:48:16] <Althego> hah, carbon wins again, 1 atom thin :)
L170[06:50:06] <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you can scrape off a single layer of carbon, but it doesn't quite work the same way with metal :p
L171[06:50:06] <APlayer> "All of our materials are coated with 3 atoms of metal!!!"
L172[06:50:50] <Althego> how do you make a sheat that thin?
L173[06:50:52] <Althego> sheet
L174[06:51:13] <APlayer> Why would you need a sheet of metal (or carbon, for that matter) that is only one (or two, or three) atoms thick?
L175[06:51:26] <Althego> graphene already has some uses
L176[06:51:37] <APlayer> Nano-tech usually requires structures, not sheets
L177[06:51:41] <Althego> it has some properties that are useful
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L179[06:52:20] <APlayer> I mean, where would you maintain that? Take it into the open air and bam - a nanoparticle hits it and knocks off a few atoms
L180[06:52:39] <APlayer> Or a few atoms corrode away
L181[06:52:40] <Althego> then dont put it in open air
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L184[06:53:08] <APlayer> So the only places where you use that are extremely controlled environments
L185[06:53:34] <Althego> all of our ICs would die if they were unprotected
L186[06:53:41] <Althego> so it doesnt matter all that much
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L188[06:54:35] <Althego> and there is an article of graphene uses too
L189[06:54:36] * APlayer glares at the 1995 Nokia cell phone
L190[06:58:19] <Althego> i found an article with 2 atoms thick superconducting lead
L191[07:00:35] <Althego> strange, i woudlnt have thought there are epitaxial graphene manufacturing processes. my bet was on cvd
L192[07:01:12] <Althego> there is already a graphene industry. go carbon go
L193[07:18:33] <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming those are 2 layers on top of some carrier medium, so not strictly a "sheet", that you could pick up and move around?
L194[07:19:38] <Althego> probably
L195[07:20:48] <APlayer> Well, you could consider anything a carrier medium, unless you magnetically levitate your sheet or something
L196[07:21:07] <APlayer> I mean, you need to fix it in place somehow
L197[07:38:48] <Eddi|zuHause> i mean something more like: "the force needed to detach it is less than the force that would break it apart"
L198[07:50:01] <APlayer> Is that possible on such a scale?
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L215[10:04:41] <BecauseLogic> k
L216[10:04:46] <BecauseLogic> anyone on?
L217[10:04:56] <lordcirth> BecauseLogic, hi
L218[10:05:01] <BecauseLogic> yo
L219[10:21:03] <GlassYuri> things I like about neodymium: storing it
L220[10:21:16] <GlassYuri> things I hate about neodymium: handling it
L221[10:22:59] <APlayer> That's what HandlerExceptions are for :P
L222[10:25:24] <GlassYuri> ...did you know that the 1 euro cent coin has a steel core?
L223[10:25:54] <APlayer> Copper would cost more than 1 ct if you used that much of it
L224[10:26:09] <APlayer> All of the copper plated cent coins have steel cores, not just the 1 ct one
L225[10:27:37] <BecauseLogic> question
L226[10:27:45] <APlayer> Answer
L227[10:28:05] <BecauseLogic> how should I account for constant acceleration of ion engines when doing an interplanetary mission
L228[10:28:24] <APlayer> In what context? Account how?
L229[10:28:45] <BecauseLogic> lets say kerbin to duna
L230[10:28:55] <APlayer> Stock ion engine, no mods?
L231[10:29:00] <BecauseLogic> correct
L232[10:29:09] <APlayer> Account for it where?
L233[10:29:20] <BecauseLogic> lets say I want to intersect with Duna, but keep firing my engines
L234[10:29:25] <BecauseLogic> for the whole time
L235[10:29:27] <APlayer> In KSP, the stock ion engine is powerful enough that you can do a Hohmann transfer
L236[10:29:35] <APlayer> You don't need constant acceleration
L237[10:29:39] <BecauseLogic> nah, I don't want to do a hohmann transfer
L238[10:29:54] <APlayer> Alright, so you want to be there as fast as possible
L239[10:29:59] <BecauseLogic> yep
L240[10:30:17] <APlayer> In that case, prepare to run your game for a few weeks and check whether the burn is okay every few days :P
L241[10:30:32] <APlayer> You probably want to calculate in what direction to burn, though?
L242[10:30:51] <BecauseLogic> well, yeah, since flight manuevers a basically useless here
L243[10:31:09] <BecauseLogic> 1D kinematics equations seem a bit simple too
L244[10:31:46] <APlayer> There is a mod, I think it was called solar sail navigation or something, that allows you to calculate continous burn trajectories like that. Mind you that last thing I know it was for KSP 1.2 or so and I never got it to work even for that
L245[10:31:59] <BecauseLogic> hmm
L246[10:32:09] <BecauseLogic> I wonder what they used to calculate that...
L247[10:32:15] <APlayer> The other option is writing a kOS, kRPC or external calculator
L248[10:32:52] <BecauseLogic> oh yeah, is there a mod that allows you to warp while accelerating? or is that to buggy?
L249[10:32:56] <APlayer> You may perform a simplified simulation of your vessel using a Runge-Kutta Integrator, which is actually a thing I attempted and kind of made a while ago, in HTML
L250[10:33:00] <APlayer> JS, that is
L251[10:33:20] <APlayer> There were some mods for that, but they were rather buggy
L252[10:33:25] <BecauseLogic> figured
L253[10:33:40] <APlayer> Same KSP 1.2 thing, and never got to make one actually
L254[10:33:43] <BecauseLogic> I can't even use mechjeb anymore
L255[10:33:47] <APlayer> Never got one to work*
L256[10:34:59] <APlayer> What I did was a Hohmann transfer with a vessel that burned so slowly that it spiralled around the planet a few times before ejecting, and as the burn took 20 h or so, I got a mod to work that would allow for physical time warp at x20 or so
L257[10:35:40] <BecauseLogic> ...what kind of vessel was it
L258[10:35:51] <APlayer> In the end, KSP started being wildly inaccurate at any timewarp higher than x8, so I used that
L259[10:36:54] <APlayer> Ah, that was a Kerbin-Duna ship, The Martian style. A few 100 tons of mass, and because of high efficiency mod engines, it needed so much electricity that I could only afford one weak engine on it
L260[10:37:10] <BecauseLogic> gotcha
L261[10:38:53] <APlayer> So I ended up having to write a simplified simulation tool - I should still have it somewhere if it is helpful - that would plot the scenario in 2D. Eventually I intended to use it to calculate at what point in an orbit to start burning if the burn is constantly prograde
L262[10:39:18] <APlayer> But I had some time issues and I never ended up finishing the project
L263[10:39:39] <APlayer> That is, I have the simulation code, but no calculations that return actually useful numbers
L264[10:41:14] <APlayer> It would be only mildly helpful in your case, as it only simulates a spiralling burn around a single body, assuming a SOI of infinite radius. That is, it would have to be modified to also account for the motion of two bodies around a sun, and the different SOIs your ship crosses
L265[10:41:57] <APlayer> And overall, what you are trying to achieve is pretty complicated.
L266[10:42:01] <BecauseLogic> I know
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L275[11:06:08] <Eddi|zuHause> stellaris is great... names the first construction ship "Fabricator", the second "Fabricator" and the third "Fabricator II"
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L277[11:15:39] <Althego> you have to 0 and no 1
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L279[11:20:18] <kbuck> UmbralRaptor: yeah; I've bee slowly banning yet another ISP that they connect from
L280[11:20:40] <UmbralRaptor> fun
L281[11:23:39] <kbuck> it's because they're using a proxy service dedicated to ban evasion; it's actually marketed to spammers
L282[11:24:01] <kbuck> normally I wouldn't ban like 3 ISPs to deal with idiots like this
L283[11:27:03] <SecondNik> Still the freenode spam?
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L285[11:27:23] <SecondNik> Also o/ UmbralRaptor
L286[11:28:10] <SecondNik> Have you found anything on my problem after I left that day? I was sick for a few days after that, so I did not check in, and almost forgot about it
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L288[11:32:35] <sandbox> I haven't seen the freenode spam since december or earlier
L289[11:36:59] <UmbralRaptor> Sorry, not remembering quite what the problem was at the moment.
L290[11:38:08] <SecondNik> How long an object takes from altitude a to altitude b given a starting vertical velocity v and accounting for the gravity gradient
L291[11:39:43] <SecondNik> If you have not, this is not a bump to get you to work on it, just asking if you figured something out back then while you were at it, if not, I am just going to start approximating things or use a numerical method
L292[11:48:01] <UmbralRaptor> Ah, sorry, got distracted by other things >_>;;
L293[11:48:43] <UmbralRaptor> Plugging equations into wolfram alpha gave messy results.
L294[11:51:58] <SecondNik> I see
L295[11:52:09] <SecondNik> That settles it
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L305[12:58:35] <kubi> https://imgur.com/gallery/ckxDiAZ
L306[12:58:35] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/Q0t0JiS.gifv
L307[13:06:20] <Althego> bleh
L308[13:07:33] *** SecondNik is now known as APlayer
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L314[13:39:26] <APlayer> https://i.imgur.com/dCQGHGt.gifv
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L324[14:26:09] <Guest80813> Can I get help from anyone here on a problem I have with the ksp website
L325[14:26:25] <APlayer> Depends on your problem
L326[14:27:05] <Guest80813> I want to update my game and download 1.6 but the website keeps giving me an error 10006 message saying that the owner of the website has banned my IP
L327[14:27:35] <Guest80813> I'm confused there's virtually nothing I've done other than download mods and just play the game
L328[14:27:37] <APlayer> Could you send the URL you are trying to access, and a screenshot of what is happening?
L329[14:27:55] <Guest95776> do you paied the game ?
L330[14:28:24] <Guest80813> Yeah I got the game right when it first got released and I'm running it on a Mac like a peasant i know
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L332[14:28:41] <Guest80813> Sure how do I DO THA
L333[14:29:19] <APlayer> The URL is the address you have at the top of your browser window. Like https://www.(whatever)
L334[14:29:54] <APlayer> Not sure how you make a screenshot on a Mac device, you'd have to look it up on the web
L335[14:30:05] <Guest80813> https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/
L336[14:30:21] <Guest80813> I know that lol I'm not sure how to send a screenshot though
L337[14:30:22] <APlayer> There we go, I can't access the page either
L338[14:30:34] <APlayer> It's generally broken.
L339[14:31:25] <Guest80813> then the whole website is just down?
L340[14:31:32] <APlayer> Seems to be the case, yes
L341[14:31:57] <APlayer> There is the KSP forums, where you may report your issue or perhaps find an alternative page
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L343[14:32:17] <APlayer> Bye
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L348[14:52:13] <UmbralRaptop> hrm, can't access the main site either
L349[14:53:00] <JVFoxy> ... banned?
L350[15:00:14] <sandbox> it's down
L351[15:00:33] <APlayer> TBH, the amount of problems with the site has been getting larger over time. I think it is obsolete by now, and steam is the preferred option
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L355[15:01:36] <Guest17937> can I get help with the kerbal space program website
L356[15:02:01] <APlayer> Sure, but I think you just got some help already? ;-)
L357[15:02:24] <Guest17937> nope
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L359[15:02:33] <APlayer> Bye
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L362[15:02:58] <APlayer> This is getting ridiculous
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L364[15:05:47] *** Deddly changes topic to Kerbal Space Program 1.6.1 official channel | Rules: http://archive.is/5bp8u | PM ops as needed | ΔV maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | There are problems with the main site, you are not banned, don't worry
L365[15:06:21] <JVFoxy> .... grrr
L366[15:06:43] <JVFoxy> steam.. I keep you at bay till my death :P
L367[15:07:32] <Deddly> Hey it's Gargamel :)
L368[15:08:45] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/533692229693210656/538827507810566156/DSC_0387.JPG
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L372[15:18:10] <JVFoxy> sigh.. hopefully will fix a some point
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L374[15:42:22] <JVFoxy> ah.. as of half an hour ago, someone says they looking into the webstore issue, according to forums
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L377[15:55:16] <JVFoxy> eh well maybe something with a happy note: share any little creations in past versions of the game that you liked in particular?
L378[15:55:39] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231106102693986314/538839291728494593/tumblr_plq53xo28t1r539hzo1_500.png
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L380[15:58:33] <JVFoxy> ... wearing shades but has mouth wired shut... poor thing. Though I guess if it talks too much..
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L398[17:09:10] <Fluburtur> I will go in the middle of france in the mountains in mid february
L399[17:09:20] <Fluburtur> should take my telescope and try taking pictures
L400[17:09:26] <Fluburtur> no light pollution over there
L401[17:09:54] <Fluburtur> I might be able to borrow my friends 25cm newtonian
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L408[18:16:09] <packbart> my Kerbals don't generate enough carbon dioxide for the greenhouse to stock up on food
L409[18:16:23] * packbart installed Tac LifeSupport today - Tamagotchi in a lander can
L410[18:16:58] <Rolf> tell em to breathe harder ;)
L411[18:17:22] <APlayer> When in doubt, set something on fire
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L413[18:28:03] <darsie> packbart: Burn some kerosene.
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L429[21:04:50] <funksh0n> Hi all.
L430[21:05:12] <funksh0n> I was wondering, how do I see the gravity of some body in ksp at sea level?
L431[21:05:24] <funksh0n> I've seen it mentioned that kerbal is 9.81
L432[21:05:31] <funksh0n> kerbin*
L433[21:05:52] <funksh0n> But where is that shown in game?
L434[21:06:47] <UmbralRaptor> IIRC, when you have a planet focused in map mode.
L435[21:07:05] <UmbralRaptor> The tracking station is probably the easiest way to get there.
L436[21:08:22] <funksh0n> Oh it's the ASL Gravity from the tracking station?
L437[21:09:38] <UmbralRaptor> yeah
L438[21:10:14] <UmbralRaptor> uh, since I'm not in front of a machine running KSP, O forget what units it's in.
L439[21:10:23] <funksh0n> yeah I was gonna say
L440[21:10:37] <UmbralRaptor> s/O/I/
L441[21:11:12] <funksh0n> how to I turn 1.00034g (ASL Gravity) into the 9.81 "units" that I put into my equation for working out TWR?
L442[21:11:24] <funksh0n> is the 9.81 in newtons or something?
L443[21:13:50] <UmbralRaptor> ;c 1.000034*9.80665
L444[21:13:50] <kmath> UmbralRaptor: 9.8069834261
L445[21:14:06] <UmbralRaptor> ;c 1.000034*9.81
L446[21:14:07] <kmath> UmbralRaptor: 9.81033354
L447[21:14:11] <UmbralRaptor> Hrm
L448[21:14:39] <UmbralRaptor> Yeah, you'll have to multiply it on other bodies by 9.81.
L449[21:15:14] <UmbralRaptor> Sort of how look earth's gravity gets called both 9.81 m/s² and 1 g.
L450[21:15:43] <funksh0n> yeah I see
L451[21:16:04] <funksh0n> so kerbin is 1.00034g which is 9.81 m/s^2
L452[21:16:17] *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
L453[21:16:47] <funksh0n> so another body which is say 0.75g, I can work it out
L454[21:16:59] <funksh0n> but where dose the 9.81 m/s^2 measurement come from?
L455[21:17:03] <funksh0n> and where can I see it in game?
L456[21:18:13] <funksh0n> I mean, I've been using Thrust / Mass / 9.81 to work out the initial TWR, but that 9.81 is just a magic number I got off the internet
L457[21:18:18] <funksh0n> not a value I got in-game
L458[21:18:49] <funksh0n> and since I want to work out some TWR for other bodies, I was wondering how I get the magic number for them too
L459[21:18:56] <darsie> funksh0n: The game doesn't show 9.81 m/s2, but you can calculate it: a=Gm/r2.
L460[21:18:58] <funksh0n> *other than looking it up on the wiki
L461[21:19:09] <funksh0n> ah I see darsie
L462[21:19:28] <funksh0n> is there a name for that?
L463[21:19:50] <darsie> It's called acceleration.
L464[21:20:08] <darsie> Gm is the Standard gravitational parameter
L465[21:20:18] <darsie> It's G*m.
L466[21:20:20] <funksh0n> so that's the acelleration applied by the force of gravity?
L467[21:20:38] <darsie> G is the gravitational constant and m is the planets mass.
L468[21:20:41] <darsie> yes
L469[21:20:51] <darsie> r is the planet radius
L470[21:20:58] <funksh0n> is that r^2?
L471[21:21:02] <darsie> yes
L472[21:21:40] <funksh0n> is r^2 rather your radius from the center, we treat it as a point mass?
L473[21:21:50] <darsie> yes
L474[21:21:54] <funksh0n> what is G?
L475[21:21:58] <darsie> G is the gravitational constant and m is the planets mass.
L476[21:22:06] <funksh0n> so G = ?
L477[21:22:23] <darsie> G=Gm/m
L478[21:22:42] <funksh0n> I guess I misunderstand the constant bit
L479[21:22:43] <funksh0n> sorry
L480[21:23:04] <darsie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_constant 6.67408(31)×10−11 m3⋅kg−1⋅s−2
L481[21:23:37] <darsie> The game tells you m and G*m.
L482[21:23:40] <darsie> and r
L483[21:24:18] <funksh0n> Oh so it does!
L484[21:24:19] <darsie> and a/a(Kerbin), e.g. 1 g.
L485[21:24:30] <funksh0n> I see
L486[21:24:51] <UmbralRaptor> ^ You can also 'measure' local gravity with the negative gravioli detector.
L487[21:24:59] ⇦ Parts: Izaya (Izaya!~izaya@210-1-218-92-cpe.spintel.net.au) (WeeChat 2.3))
L488[21:24:59] <darsie> yeah :)
L489[21:25:12] <funksh0n> nice
L490[21:25:25] <darsie> Uses a bit of EC for the LCD :).
L491[21:25:37] <UmbralRaptor> heh
L492[21:25:39] <UmbralRaptor> For KSP purposes, it divides the acceleration by 9.80665 to get the g numbers.
L493[21:25:56] * UmbralRaptor may have fired up KSP to check
L494[21:26:56] <darsie> https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Kerbin says Standard gravitational parameter 3.5316000×1012 m3/s2 and Equatorial radius 600 000 m and with that Gm/r2=9.81 exactly.
L495[21:27:59] * darsie fires, too.
L496[21:28:18] <UmbralRaptor> ???
L497[21:29:21] <darsie> funksh0n: gravity is giver at 0 altitude, which may not exist for some bodies.
L498[21:29:28] <darsie> given*
L499[21:30:44] <darsie> funksh0n: Spherically symmetric spheres (e.g. core and mantle) can be substituted with point masses to get identical results for gravity.
L500[21:31:06] <funksh0n> so if the game says Kerbin mass is 5.292E+22 kg, does that mean I move the decimal 22 places to the right to get it's mass in kg? Sorry for newb questions :P
L501[21:31:44] <funksh0n> and if I'm going to manually work out a from a=Gm/r^2, what unit should I use for m?
L502[21:31:57] <funksh0n> kg or tonnes or what?
L503[21:31:59] <darsie> funksh0n: yes
L504[21:32:06] <darsie> use SI units.
L505[21:32:10] <darsie> m, kg, s
L506[21:32:18] <funksh0n> imperial?
L507[21:32:27] <darsie> If you're masochistic.
L508[21:32:32] <funksh0n> heh
L509[21:32:33] <UmbralRaptor> Only if you hate yourself
L510[21:32:36] <darsie> Or imperialistic :).
L511[21:32:36] <funksh0n> what does SI stand for?
L512[21:32:43] <darsie> system international
L513[21:32:45] <funksh0n> ah
L514[21:32:51] <funksh0n> metric it is
L515[21:32:56] <darsie> yes
L516[21:34:02] <funksh0n> so what's a convenient way of using the a=Gm/r^2 here? If I was going to attempt it by hand (or by typing into python or something) should I really put m as 5292 with ~20 zeros after it?
L517[21:34:08] <funksh0n> i.e. using kg?
L518[21:34:19] <darsie> funksh0n: I usually use scientific notation (5.292E22) with my calculator rather than moving the decimal places.
L519[21:34:36] <funksh0n> ah nice
L520[21:34:48] <funksh0n> so I can just keep that shorthand for the calultion
L521[21:34:51] <funksh0n> calculation*
L522[21:34:58] <darsie> Depends on your calculator.
L523[21:35:37] <darsie> Forget credit card sized solar powered calculators :).
L524[21:35:55] <darsie> Unless you keep track of decimal places separately.
L525[21:36:31] <UmbralRaptor> eh, random scientific calculators have ways. Graphing ones more so.
L526[21:40:58] <funksh0n> well
L527[21:41:03] <funksh0n> Python 3
L528[21:41:11] <funksh0n> but I don't mind switching to something else
L529[21:41:42] <funksh0n> so yeah, I'm kinda confused right now
L530[21:41:49] <darsie> The numbers shown in the game may be rounded from internally used values.
L531[21:41:59] <funksh0n> how do I work out the twr of my craft on the mun?
L532[21:42:12] <funksh0n> I know the thrust of the engines and the mass of the craft
L533[21:42:16] <darsie> F=m*a
L534[21:42:25] <lordcirth> funksh0n, f = ma; a = f/m
L535[21:42:46] <darsie> TWR=F/F
L536[21:43:05] <darsie> thrust/gravity
L537[21:43:17] <lordcirth> And the Mun has 1.63 m/s^2 gravity
L538[21:43:20] <lordcirth> https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Mun
L539[21:43:38] <funksh0n> lordcirth: yeah, that's the value I'm having trouble with getting
L540[21:44:06] <funksh0n> I know it's 9.81 m/s^2 for kerbin because I saw that outside of the game
L541[21:44:31] <funksh0n> I'm pretty sure you guys have just given me the answer already
L542[21:44:38] <funksh0n> I just need to math a bit more
L543[21:45:00] <darsie> gravity could mean either acceleration or force.
L544[21:45:16] <darsie> I think
L545[21:46:05] <funksh0n> well as I said, I was using (thrust / mass) / 9.81
L546[21:46:22] <darsie> We could measure gravity to high precision by observing circular orbit period.
L547[21:46:30] <lordcirth> Technically gravity is the force and m/s^2 is "acceleration due to gravity", but so long as you include units, it's obvious what is meanth
L548[21:46:35] <funksh0n> so for mun I guess it's (thrust / mass) / 1.63
L549[21:46:43] <lordcirth> funksh0n, indeed
L550[21:46:48] <funksh0n> do I just need a gravioly detector to tell me?
L551[21:47:21] <funksh0n> or is there another way to infer that 9.81 or 1.63 or whatever value?
L552[21:47:33] <funksh0n> Gm/r^2>
L553[21:47:35] <funksh0n> ?
L554[21:47:42] <darsie> We could measure gravity to high precision by observing circular orbit period.
L555[21:47:44] <darsie> ^
L556[21:47:50] <funksh0n> ah
L557[21:47:59] <lordcirth> funksh0n, if you know the orbital radius and period of the Mun, you can calculate the gravity of Kerbin, and so on.
L558[21:48:06] <funksh0n> I see
L559[21:48:24] <UmbralRaptor> The other wat would usually be to read off the values on the map. Measuring orbital distances and periods is how we do this in real life, though.
L560[21:48:38] <darsie> lordcirth: I'll watch that, inferring Kerbins gravity by observing a Mun orbit :).
L561[21:48:48] <funksh0n> yeah I understand
L562[21:49:07] <darsie> ahh, Mun's orbit around Kerbin.
L563[21:49:09] <UmbralRaptor> s/wat/way/
L564[21:49:49] <darsie> Hmm, I guess the game uses a massless Mun for that calculation.
L565[21:52:34] <lordcirth> Yeah, KSP doesn't do n-body
L566[21:53:06] <lordcirth> Gravity goes down the tree one-way
L567[21:56:27] <darsie> funksh0n: Feel free to calculate Kerbin's Gm: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot33.png :)
L568[21:58:30] <darsie> Dunno if calculating Gm from elliptic orbits is much harder.
L569[21:59:17] <funksh0n> appreciate it darsie
L570[22:02:02] <darsie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_period#Small_body_orbiting_a_central_body
L571[22:02:14] <UmbralRaptor> It's not too much harder. You just need semimajor axis instead of radius.
L572[22:02:22] <darsie> mhm
L573[22:02:39] <funksh0n> another thing, when I'm working out the TWR for some rocket that has multiple engines
L574[22:02:45] <funksh0n> do I just add the thrust values?
L575[22:02:52] <darsie> yeah
L576[22:02:56] <funksh0n> okay nice
L577[22:03:05] <darsie> If they burn simultaneously and in the same direction.
L578[22:03:08] <funksh0n> yeah
L579[22:04:34] <darsie> funksh0n: Beware, those altitudes are above surface, not center.
L580[22:04:59] <darsie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-major_and_semi-minor_axes
L581[22:21:43] <darsie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apsis SMA=(Ap+Pe)/2
L582[22:24:45] <darsie> Circular and elliptic orbits: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot34.png
L583[22:42:08] <darsie> From the elliptic orbit I get GM=3.5377 m3/s2, a=9.8269 m/s2.
L584[22:42:27] <darsie> 3.5377E12
L585[22:47:16] <darsie> From the larger, almost circular orbit I get GM=3.5314 m3/s2, a=9.80947 m/s2.
L586[22:48:23] <darsie> 3.5314E12
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L591[23:34:41] <darsie> From Mun's orbit GM=3.53157E12, a=9.809912
L592[23:39:13] <darsie> With these two subsequent occultations of a red giant (about 1.5 Kerbin diameters above its equtor, already half eclipsed) by Mun I determined Mun's orbital period: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot38.png http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot39.png
L593[23:39:57] <darsie> So it appears they use 9.81 m/s2.
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