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L11[02:50:18] <darsie> What engines are
these?
L12[02:50:41] <Althego> rapier engines with
nose cones
L13[02:51:06] <darsie> weird
L14[02:51:22] <Althego> the nose cones
decrease drag
L16[02:51:38] <darsie> ic
L17[02:51:47] <Althego> tiny
L18[02:52:07] <darsie> I wound 32 turns on
a 3 mm ferrite toroid core. 1.13 mH.
L19[02:52:27] <darsie> Found it in ethernet
isolation transformers.
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L22[03:06:20] <JVFoxy> looks like I'll be
hunting down some tube sockets.. once friend gets around to testing
some stuff for me...
L23[03:06:37] <JVFoxy> while on the topic
of electronic hardware.
L24[03:06:52] <Mat2ch> darsie: 10 fps?
:D
L25[03:07:06] <Mat2ch> oh, wait, that was
Althego
L26[03:07:18] *
darsie waits ;).
L27[03:07:25] <Althego> probably lower than
that, but i dont know
L28[03:07:27] <Mat2ch> Althego: also the
nose cones don't work anymore :(
L29[03:09:55] ⇨
Joins: xxapvxx
(xxapvxx!~xxApvxx@047-026-073-030.res.spectrum.com)
L30[03:11:41] ***
OneNick339Days is now known as OneNick338Days
L31[03:13:40] <JVFoxy> Althego ya.. I saw
that pic too. something about being able to lift 200 tons or
something? I don't remember where I saw it now though.
L32[03:13:50] <Althego> 550
L33[03:14:09] <Althego> i find these on ksp
twitter, but most of them are on reddit too
L34[03:15:44] ⇦
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L35[03:18:37] <JVFoxy> oh right twitter...
was back when trying to find any news on the webstore acting
weird
L37[03:19:27] <kmath> <✔KerbalSpaceP>
This guy landed a landing pad on a peak and then landed a reusable
rocket on the mountain peak landing pad... ?…
https://t.co/3k9owTpC55
L38[03:19:37] <JVFoxy> seem to recall
someone brought that up here not too long ago
L39[03:19:47] <Althego> that was me
L40[03:20:22] <darsie> :)
L41[03:21:14] <darsie> I would have needed
such a thing on Gilly's pole. Impossible to remain stable on that
peak.
L42[03:21:39] <Althego> hehe
L43[03:22:10] ⇨
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L44[03:24:18] <JVFoxy> Ugh... I would love
to land on the Mun's polar area... too bad terrain is crazy as
ffffff..
L45[03:24:49] <JVFoxy> unless they got
around to 'fixing' the map scaling for the polar areas...
L46[03:25:30] <darsie> JVFoxy: There's an
anomaly in one of those pits. No sunlight. tough
L47[03:27:02] <JVFoxy> not so much the pits
I worry about.. the valley and mountains get overly exaggerated
closer you get to the center of the polar areas. Mostly because of
how they did the map overlay.. not sure if its still an
issue?
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L49[03:48:35] <Mat2ch> JVFoxy: just bring
enough fuel to hover ;)
L50[03:49:06] <JVFoxy> rather fly than
hover..
L51[03:49:11] <Mat2ch> also the scale of
KSP (and our solar system) always gets me.
L52[03:49:19] <JVFoxy> if I couldn't would
love to find a spot for base
L53[03:49:25] <JVFoxy> ... if I could..
ugh
L54[03:49:27] <Althego> LSP PLANETS AND
DISTANCES ARE TINY
L55[03:49:31] <Althego> eh
L56[03:49:37] <Mat2ch> Sent a rover to Eve.
Drove for a few km. Marker didn't move on the map screen
L57[03:49:40] <Althego> i was cleaning the
keyboard, and pressed capslock
L58[03:50:00] <Mat2ch> Then built a plane
and flew around Kerbin
L59[03:50:05] <Mat2ch> better
L60[03:50:13] <Althego> that is why i want
electric props
L61[03:50:24] <Althego> going around on eve
and duna with rover is really dangerous and slow
L62[03:50:30] <Mat2ch> timewarp makes
things look so much closer...
L63[03:50:51] <darsie> Timewarp is
dangerous, too.
L64[03:51:01] <Althego> physics warp
is
L65[03:51:41] <Mat2ch> physics warp +
wheels = doooom
L66[03:51:51] <packbart> Timewarp sometimes
makes things *be* much closer
L67[03:51:56] <Althego> hencet he need fro
electric props
L68[03:53:45] <Mat2ch> EM drive! ;P
L69[03:56:22] <darsie> unicorns!
L70[04:03:00] ⇦
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L71[04:08:59] <JVFoxy> gas props.. electric
props... either would be nice
L72[04:09:19] <Althego> no, because fuel
based props wouldnt work on eve and duna
L73[04:09:38] <Althego> but if you dont
need speed that much, props are the most efficient you canget
L74[04:10:11] <JVFoxy> Oh. .eve.. was
thinking kerbin mostly.
L75[04:10:33] <JVFoxy> electric on eve..
sure. Hopefully big enough powersorce
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L80[04:20:20] <Althego> heh, hehe, ant them
messed up anthem too
L81[04:20:27] <Althego> and they
L82[04:21:35] <Althego> looks amazing and
it is bugged to the point of unlplayable
L83[04:26:40] <taniwha> Althego: LF+O
powered jets
L84[04:26:58] <Althego> we have that
already. other name is rocket :)
L85[04:27:01] <taniwha> ie, you provide the
oxidizer too, but use the local atmosphere for reaction mass
L86[04:27:17] <Althego> that could
work
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L89[05:18:11] <Mat2ch> "Plant a flag
on Eve".
L90[05:18:33] <Mat2ch> Ok, who's going to
live the rest of their life on Eve?
L91[05:18:35] <Mat2ch> :D
L92[05:21:15] <Althego> it is relatively
easy to bring back one kerbal from eve
L93[05:21:25] <Althego> at least compared
to the soup era
L94[05:21:32] ⇨
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L95[05:26:16] <Mat2ch> Well. It still takes
a lot of 7.5 m power
L96[05:26:24] <Mat2ch> also you have to
land it, too...
L97[05:32:00] <JVFoxy> when did 'soup era'
end btw?
L98[05:32:21] <JVFoxy> I first poked KSP
back when it was 0.18
L99[05:32:21] <taniwha> ksp 1.0
L100[05:32:41] <JVFoxy> Mind you.. can't
say I've gone past minmus yet.. sigh
L101[05:32:49] <taniwha> "soup
era" replaced by "magic wing era" :P
L102[05:33:08] <Althego> what magic?
L103[05:33:13] <taniwha> JVFoxy: heh, I
have bases on Mun, Minmus, Gilly, Duna and Pol
L104[05:33:35] <JVFoxy> attempted to
jool.. a few times. I know transfer windows its just.. so far
between
L105[05:33:37] <darsie> soup era?
L106[05:33:42] <taniwha> Althego: changing
from high-aspect straight wings at slow speed to delta-wings at
high speed
L107[05:34:03] <taniwha> (visible wing
shape is (mostly) irrelevant)
L108[05:34:11] <Althego> hehe i didnt know
that. it was just fuiny that all wing shapes always worked
L109[05:34:21] <taniwha> darsie:
completely wrong aerodynamic model
L110[05:34:27] <darsie> ok
L111[05:34:32] <JVFoxy> those swept stock
wings I find too far swept
L112[05:34:40] <Althego> darsie: also
commonly known as the souposphere, before the atmosphere was really
not realistic
L113[05:34:40] <taniwha> darsie: drag was
based on part mass
L114[05:35:04] <VanDisaster> it's still
souposphere :p
L115[05:35:11] <taniwha> biggest problem
with that is an empty tank and a full tank would fall at exactly
the same speed
L116[05:35:14] <VanDisaster> but old aero
was hilarious
L117[05:35:19] <taniwha> (correct for Mun,
wrong for Kerbin)
L118[05:35:22] <Althego> so you had huge
drag, thus you always went straight up to 10 km before banking, now
you can have a more reaistic ascent
L119[05:35:44] <JVFoxy> soup-sphere to me
was back when it was so thick, no matter what you made, always ran
out of fuel before reaching space even
L120[05:35:49] <VanDisaster> also you
could just use blunt shapes
L121[05:35:58] <VanDisaster> very wide
blunt shapes, usually
L122[05:36:01] <Althego> in fACT IT WAS
BETTER
L123[05:36:08] <Althego> BECAUSE THE
NOSECONES ADDED MASS, THUS DRAG
L124[05:36:19] <taniwha> Althego: fine
control ;)
L125[05:36:40] <JVFoxy> you can still fly
a box.. wings vs panels
L126[05:36:56] <taniwha> with enough
power, even a brick can fly
L127[05:37:09] <JVFoxy> ya but in ksp...
brick will fly. Just hide wings inside it
L128[05:37:16] <VanDisaster> stock air has
body lift these days?
L129[05:37:19] <taniwha> install FAR
:)
L130[05:37:28] <taniwha> VanDisaster:
hacky
L131[05:37:31] <JVFoxy> ya.. stock has
body lift but careful, sometimes doesn't mirror properly
L132[05:37:37] <Althego> there is a tiny
bit of body lift with high enough angle
L133[05:37:48] <JVFoxy> even then.. it
acts up
L134[05:37:52] <taniwha> FAR has done body
lift (reasonably) correctly forever
L135[05:37:57] <Althego> but mostly it is
limited with mk2 parts with built in lift
L136[05:38:04] <taniwha> (all parts)
L137[05:38:24] <taniwha> which is part of
why rockets are (and always were) harder in FAR
L138[05:38:51] <taniwha> (sure, soup-days
it took less ΔV getting to orbit, but good luck getting /through/
the atmosphere)
L139[05:39:12] <Althego> yes the jets
working at near orbital speed at 79 km :)
L140[05:39:13] <Althego> 69
L141[05:39:27] <taniwha> 79km would be
impressive ;)
L142[05:39:31] <VanDisaster> soup-day era
FAR didn't have proper shape drag
L143[05:39:46] <VanDisaster> soup-day?
soup-air
L144[05:39:46] <taniwha> VanDisaster: yes
it did, since 0.25 or so
L145[05:39:58] <VanDisaster> not the voxel
analysis bit
L146[05:40:02] <taniwha> yes, the
voxels
L147[05:40:10] <JVFoxy> My speedbird could
do 69km and even go a little faster than orbital speed... that was
prior to jet engine revamp
L148[05:40:13] <taniwha> they're older
than 1.0
L149[05:40:19] <VanDisaster> now I'm
curious
L150[05:40:22] <VanDisaster> firing up a
0.9
L151[05:40:37] <taniwha> might have been
0.9
L152[05:40:45] <taniwha> well, 0.90
L153[05:40:54] <taniwha> 0.9 may not have
had FAR ;)
L154[05:41:17] *
JVFoxy has far back as 0.23
L155[05:41:40] <VanDisaster> I installed
FAR a week after I started playing
L156[05:41:46] <VanDisaster> that was in
0.18 or something
L157[05:41:56] <JVFoxy> I started on
friend's laptop with 0.18
L158[05:42:05] <taniwha> 1-2 weeks for me,
0.19
L159[05:42:21] <taniwha> looking for my
first voxel/shape screenshot
L160[05:42:24] <VanDisaster> wow, 0.9
fires up fast
L161[05:42:37] <JVFoxy> lol
L162[05:43:11] <taniwha> I might be wrong
and maybe it was 1.0 that added voxels
L163[05:44:04] <taniwha> 0.24 or 0.25 is
when FAR got aero-confetti
L164[05:45:50] <taniwha> ok, into 1.0
shots, no sign of voxels
L165[05:45:52] <taniwha> sorry
L166[05:46:31] <JVFoxy> sorry,
voxel..?
L167[05:46:32] <taniwha> ok, it was 1.0
from the looks of it
L168[05:46:33] <VanDisaster> don't think
it's something worth apologising about :p
L170[05:47:43] <Althego> all your voxel
are belong to us :)
L171[05:47:46] <taniwha> seems to be my
first voxel-shot
L172[05:47:50] <taniwha> (well,
shape-based)
L173[05:47:53] <JVFoxy> jets I think got
preformance modeling around 1.0.2-1.0.3
L174[05:48:10] <taniwha> dated
2015/9/5
L175[05:48:29] <taniwha> JVFoxy: 1.0
L176[05:48:35] <taniwha> I'm *pretty*
sure
L177[05:48:54] <taniwha> (I remember
checking lots of model dimentions for NK)
L178[05:49:04] <JVFoxy> or at least just
shortly after... some posts about drag modeling too, but is going
all over the place
L180[05:50:10] <JVFoxy> uff.. I did a
delta wing craft using old school mk3 body cockpit
L182[05:50:41] <taniwha> (FAR stole the
wings)
L184[05:51:12] <taniwha> did not end well,
though
L185[05:51:24] <taniwha> (couldn't brake
in time for the hills)
L187[05:53:02] <taniwha> yeah, mine was
the result of the voxels
L189[05:56:11] <taniwha> (just the other
night)
L190[05:56:48] <taniwha> first attempt
went badly because I warped too close to the ground (which was odd:
before, KSP wouldn't let be warp below 30km)
L191[05:57:13] <taniwha> also, second
attempt had more ΔV
L192[05:57:32] <taniwha> The Pol-Tylo
stage had more fuel
L193[05:57:43] <JVFoxy> lol... ksp didn't
catch my warping fast enough. went from coming from lunar orbit, to
instantly underwater by a few miles
L194[05:58:32] <taniwha> ah, 100k
warp
L195[05:58:37] <taniwha> don't do that in
Kerbin SoI
L197[05:58:53] <taniwha> Nyquist bit your
bum :)
L198[05:58:59] <Althego> hehe
L199[05:59:15] <taniwha> 100k warp: 2000s
every /frame/
L200[05:59:29] <JVFoxy> ... ok correction,
almost 120km underground somehow
L201[05:59:46] <taniwha> 2000s is a LONG
time on trans-Mun orbit
L202[05:59:54] <taniwha> (when near the
periapsis)
L203[06:00:17] <JVFoxy> I'm going to guess
1.8million kpa kind of a lot of pressure
L204[06:00:27] <taniwha> yeah
L205[06:00:36] <JVFoxy> but anyways... was
one of the funnies I had in the game
L206[06:00:49] <Althego> you are under the
ground surface too
L207[06:01:00] <JVFoxy> my other was the
font glitch...
L210[06:01:40] <taniwha> (some time later,
Val stole the first and flung it almost out of the solar
system)
L211[06:01:54] <JVFoxy> I wanna record the
landing leg launching funny. Probe body, 4 little landing legs,
reduce spring and damp down to 0... launch. watch it hit nearly 80g
off the pad for some reason
L212[06:02:20] <taniwha> physx spring
bug
L213[06:02:42] <JVFoxy> it'll compress,
then suddenly 'snap'...
L214[06:02:56] <taniwha> when the
suspension spring hits its limits, physx goofs and goes
non-physical
L215[06:03:06] <taniwha> (recently fixed
in physx, so in KSP... never?)
L216[06:03:15] <taniwha> (if KSP never
updates beyond unity 2017)
L217[06:03:17] <Althego> hehe
L218[06:03:22] <Althego> how things are
goin, yes never
L219[06:03:34] <JVFoxy> I hated when the
landing gear bug/glitch thing hits.. you landing, back wheels
touch, but soon as your front wheel comes down, it punches back and
flips the plane over
L220[06:03:57] <taniwha> need stronger
spring
L221[06:04:02] <taniwha> and slower decent
rate
L222[06:04:07] <taniwha> it's tricky
L223[06:04:21] <Althego> decent descent
rate :)
L224[06:04:26] <JVFoxy> no... was
something else going on. even strong spring will cause
problems
L225[06:04:27] <taniwha> that too
L227[06:04:34] <kmath> YouTube - Landing
Practice
L228[06:04:58] <taniwha> JVFoxy: spring,
damper, /and/ descent rate
L229[06:05:03] <JVFoxy> the lvl0 landing
wheels were horrible for just exploding if a fly so much as touches
them
L230[06:06:10] <taniwha> (btw, because
it's unrecognizable at 10x, the music is the soundtrack to Horizon
Zero Dawn)
L231[06:06:16] <JVFoxy> no .. my flying is
good. been causes where front wheel didn't bounce on landing, but
soon as you hit the brakes, it compressed, started trying to kick
back twice as much force
L232[06:06:35] <taniwha> JVFoxy: spring is
too weak for the mass of the plane
L233[06:06:57] <taniwha> but it still
comes down to that physx bug
L234[06:07:08] <taniwha> you overextended
the spring, physx goofed
L235[06:07:12] <JVFoxy> some cases, if
that landing leg isn't exactly straight, it can cause problems
too
L236[06:07:49] <JVFoxy> thankfully, it
hasn't been a problem these days..
L237[06:07:56] <VanDisaster> better than
the version that used to make the runway explode every time I
landed on it
L238[06:08:11] <JVFoxy> old wheels,
couldn't even set spring/damps
L239[06:08:38] <taniwha> JVFoxy: yes you
could: part.cfg hacking :)
L240[06:08:45] <JVFoxy> or the medium
landing wheel, couldn't even steer.. was sad, till that got
fixed
L241[06:09:01] <taniwha> large still
can't
L243[06:09:15] <Althego> hehe
L244[06:09:25] <JVFoxy> medium.. not
large. Medium has one axel, two wheels
L245[06:09:37] <Althego> the plane is
fine. the landing strip exploded
L246[06:09:39] <taniwha> JVFoxy: yes
L247[06:09:42] <taniwha> just saying
L248[06:10:08] <JVFoxy> I've hacked.. I
rearranged gauges in the mk2 cockpit once... made an adapter
section into a service module with extra resources
L249[06:10:14] <taniwha> however, because
of my WIP input mod, lack of wheel steering is not a problem
L250[06:10:18] <taniwha> I have brake
steering :)
L251[06:10:31] <Althego> nice
L252[06:10:36] <Althego> differential
brakes
L253[06:10:42] <Althego> like in real
airplanes
L254[06:10:46] <taniwha> (I wrote a module
to give linear stearing split over left/right/center)
L255[06:10:52] <JVFoxy> feh.. my older big
big planes would snap like twigs in older ksp versions
L256[06:10:53] <taniwha> center might be a
mistake
L258[06:14:22] <sandbox> simpler
times
L259[06:14:42] <taniwha> when wheels
worked
L260[06:14:47] <taniwha> (because there
were none)
L261[06:14:51] <Althego> hehe
L262[06:15:47] <taniwha> my Gilly base,
with Duna expedition (big ship) and interplanetary shuttle (small
one on base):
http://taniwha.org/~bill/screenshot4463.png
L265[06:16:24] <Althego> green
sausages
L266[06:16:27] <taniwha> btw, that base
(and the ones like it on Mun and Minmus) are good relays
L267[06:16:51] ⇦
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L268[06:17:15] <Althego> the color
explaines why they are in cages
L269[06:18:13] <taniwha> heh
L270[06:18:24] <taniwha> it's actually
#bada55
L271[06:18:48] <taniwha> so yes,
kerbal-green
L272[06:19:17] <kubi> what mod is this
base?
L273[06:19:33] <Althego> i recognize the
diamond shaped elements from taniwha
L274[06:19:36] <taniwha> Diamond Grid
Trusses and Containers
L276[06:21:24] <taniwha> EL, Kethane, DG,
RLA Reborn, Tokamak Industries, KAS, Aviation Lights
L277[06:21:44] <taniwha> Talisar
Parts
L278[06:23:19] <darsie> Are Kerbals
photosynthesizing?
L279[06:23:30] <Althego> possibly
L280[06:23:46] <darsie> Maybe that's why
they don't need food.
L281[06:23:54] <Althego> there are some
ideas that they might be fungi, that is why they explode to a cloud
of spores
L282[06:23:57] <darsie> In RO they need
food and emit CO2.
L284[06:25:31] <darsie> hehe
L285[06:25:51] <darsie> Is that
HAL2000?
L286[06:25:58] <darsie> Or what was the
ships name?
L287[06:26:05] <Althego> discovery?
L288[06:26:29] <Althego> doesnt look like
it, except it is long
L289[06:26:31] <taniwha> I guess it's
loosely based on the ship
L290[06:26:49] <Althego> leonov is closer
because that had a big visible rotating part
L291[06:26:49] <taniwha> I did watch 2001
when I was 9 or so
L293[06:27:06] <taniwha> nuclear toaster
grill :)
L294[06:27:21] <darsie> Discovery
One
L295[06:27:26] <taniwha> (48x LV-Nc (RLA
mini nuke))
L297[06:28:39] <taniwha> (I tweaked the
mass and thrust to be better in line with an actual comparison with
the LV-N: 6.45kN/230kg instead of 600kN,300kg)
L299[06:28:42] <kmath> YouTube -
"2010: The Year We Make Contact" (1984): All These
Worlds
L300[06:28:45] <taniwha> kept the 750s
Isp, though
L301[06:28:57] <taniwha> (smaller nuke,
harder to heat the propellant)
L302[06:29:04] <JVFoxy> Taniwha hope you
got some good shielding.. thats one toasty ship
L303[06:29:23] <taniwha> there's a lot of
tankage between the nukes and the habs
L304[06:29:55] <taniwha> not that good at
actual shadow-shielding, though
L305[06:30:00] <taniwha> (do have some
distance, at least)
L306[06:30:11] <taniwha> (best shielding
for its mass:)
L307[06:32:44] <taniwha> hmm, though the
two layers of quad adaptors might count for something
L308[06:33:59] <Althego> can kerbals die
of radiation poisoning?
L309[06:34:09] <taniwha> I think Kerbalism
does that
L310[06:34:13] <taniwha> I know some mods
do
L312[06:36:47] ⇦
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L313[06:37:02] <Althego> pale blue
dot?
L314[06:37:16] <taniwha> pretty much. but
more importantly, from where?
L315[06:37:56] <taniwha> Interstellar
moment: [Kerbals] never did figure out how to go anywhere without
leaving something behind.
http://taniwha.org/~bill/screenshot4358.png
L316[06:38:10] <taniwha> (actually got me
a couple of much needed km/s)
L317[06:38:54] <Althego> that airplane
cockpit on the front
L318[06:39:05] <taniwha> rescue/retrieval
contract
L319[06:39:06] <Althego> why is it there?
why is it detachable?
L320[06:39:08] <taniwha> Low sun
orbit
L321[06:39:31] <taniwha> I used KIS to
attach a heat shield and docking port
L323[06:49:45]
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L324[06:50:30] <JVFoxy> pale blue dot..
got Scott's Eeloo trip on a tab, waiting for me to get back to
finishing it
L326[07:01:17] <JVFoxy> flag?
L327[07:05:02]
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L328[07:13:30] <taniwha> flag.
L329[07:15:52] <UmbralRaptor> flag
L330[07:19:51] ⇦
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L331[07:22:47] ⇦
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L332[07:23:22] <Eddi|zuHause> ¿glaf
L333[07:27:40] <packbart> indeed, now I
see it also on the side of the crafts. trolled by a flag
L334[07:33:39]
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L335[07:34:28] <UmbralRaptor> ¡ƃɐlɟ
L336[07:35:46] <APlayer> o/
L337[07:36:03] <UmbralRaptor> \o
L338[07:36:17] <APlayer> \o/
L339[07:37:16] ⇦
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L340[07:37:44]
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L341[07:37:56] <APlayer> Yay, he's
back!
L343[07:39:14] *
UmbralRaptop ? imgur in the ram
L344[07:39:43] <APlayer> imgur ?
UmbralRaptop in the RAM, more like
L345[07:42:07]
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L347[08:08:29]
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L348[08:44:11] <GlassYuri> so after nine
days of living in the cold I finally found the remote for my aircon
unit again
L349[08:44:29] <GlassYuri> I thought it
fell behind the bed when it was in front of it
L350[08:46:28] <APlayer> "Death by
air conditioner"
L351[08:46:56] <GlassYuri> reverse
engineer and reproduce a tool from taobao: three hours / find
object in line of sight of desk: nine days
L352[08:47:49] <APlayer> Have you tried
ray casting?
L353[08:48:27] <GlassYuri> speaking of
rays
L354[08:48:43] <GlassYuri> if my eyes
could shoot infrared rays, I wouldn't need the remote
L355[08:48:52] <Althego> hehe
L356[08:49:00] <GlassYuri> that *clearly*
is the actual problem at hand
L357[08:49:08] <Eddi|zuHause> that's not
how eyes work :p
L358[08:49:10] <Althego> they do shoot
infraread, just not beams
L359[08:49:15] <Althego> and not
modulated
L360[08:49:42] <GlassYuri> you can
modulate it by blinking really fast :P
L361[08:49:46] <Althego> no
L362[08:49:50] <Althego> or not
really
L363[08:49:58] <Eddi|zuHause> they don't
"shoot" more IR than the rest of your body
L364[08:50:03] <Althego> because it is all
thermal radiation in mostly the same temperature
L365[08:57:44] <Mat2ch> Time to build
something that can lift off from eve...
L366[08:58:08]
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L367[08:58:56]
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L368[09:09:37] <Althego> even now,
designing such thing takes days
L369[09:14:07] <Mat2ch> with or without
hyperedit?
L370[09:14:29] <Mat2ch> 7400 m/s dV
needed...
L371[09:14:30] <APlayer> I disagree that
the radiation is mostly the same. Your eyelids (i.e. normal skin)
has completely different radiation properties from your eye (i.e.
the white part and the iris)
L372[09:14:31] <Mat2ch> that's huge
L373[09:14:53] <APlayer> So you definitely
could modulate it in some way
L374[09:15:39] <Althego> they area bit
different temperature
L375[09:15:42] <APlayer> Mat2ch: In RSS,
the delta-V to launch something into LEO is 9 - 10 km/s. You start
at the ground, though, so no need to haul it over to Eve.
L376[09:16:01] <Althego> more like
8k
L377[09:16:04] <APlayer> You may want to
consider constructing something with docking and IR
L378[09:16:13] <Althego> not including
safety margin
L379[09:16:26] <APlayer> Althego: Not sure
if 8k is really possible, but definitely not with my piloting
skills
L380[09:16:43] <APlayer> I mean, orbital
ground velocity is about 7.6 km/s
L381[09:16:44] <Althego> no, i mean m/s
delta v
L382[09:16:55] <Althego> for eve launch,
from sea level
L383[09:17:01] <APlayer> Ah, Eve
launch
L384[09:17:49] <Althego> it is still
easier to add mroe delta v than to land precisely on a peak, that
is not even on the equator
L385[09:17:52] <APlayer> Good point, you
may launch from a mountain, the savings are considerable
AFAIK
L386[09:18:15] <APlayer> Rovers are a
thing
L387[09:18:32] <Althego> the ultimate
solution would be an electric prop flying the rocket up to 10 km,
where it is around kerbin sea level pressure
L388[09:18:49] <Althego> no, they are not
really a thing, unless you make saves eveery 100 m
L389[09:19:23] <APlayer> Not sure how it
works in 1.6, but in 1.3 rovers were still a practical thing
L390[09:19:48] <Althego> they are never
practical, always flip or explode. and on eve they consume huge
amount of electricity
L391[09:20:20] <APlayer> Flipping is
something you can avoid if you are careful, never had explosion
issues
L392[09:20:45] <APlayer> Well, I'm sure I
had them a few times, everything explodes now and again in KSP, but
no more problems with rovers than with anything else
L393[09:23:42] <Mat2ch> APlayer: but in
RSS you have much better engines and denser fuel
L394[09:23:57] <APlayer> That's RO
L395[09:24:06] <Mat2ch> or smurf ;P
L396[09:24:22] <APlayer> I used to have
SMURFF installed, but I don't think I do anymore
L397[09:24:33] <APlayer> I do have
SSTU
L398[09:25:06] <APlayer> (And literally
about half a hundred of other mods, but less relevant here)
L399[10:02:20] ⇦
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L401[10:44:19] <Althego> 2001 much?
L402[10:44:48] <Rolf> lol well its
effective shape so not surpised
L403[10:45:12] <Rolf> they have plan but i
dont know how well they will go far
L404[10:46:07] <Althego> the music is
missing. it is just not the same without it :)
L405[10:46:43] <Althego> lol you cant walk
out sideways like that, that woul dbe down
L406[10:47:00] <Rolf> yeah its funny
lol
L407[10:47:10] <Rolf> but suggest look
into it more see how they plan to build up
L408[10:47:16] <Rolf> thats where it gets
interesting
L409[11:09:31]
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L410[11:22:28] <packbart> they can't even
afford a spellchecker. "pillers of great science
fictoon". tz. and it was Wernher von Braun, not Werner.
*nitpickings* ;)
L411[11:22:53] <packbart> (ok, that
fictoon typo was of my own ;)
L412[11:23:00] <Althego> hehe
L414[11:27:31] <APlayer> Such plans. Much
ambition. Wow.
L415[11:27:50] <Rolf> indeed
L416[11:29:03] <APlayer> But basically,
what they did is a website that says "We are the foundation to
build a cool space gateway, here is what it looks like. But we will
not build it, everyone else will build it"
L417[11:29:46] <packbart> well, they do
have a Shutupandtakemymoney-Button
L418[11:29:54] <Althego> lol action lab ai
battle
L419[11:30:35] <Rolf> ap yeah but not free
labor
L420[11:30:40] <Rolf> paid labor
L422[11:31:18] <APlayer> Without )
L423[11:32:45] <APlayer> Honestly, looks
much worse than many other very ambitious websites I've seen
:(
L424[11:33:02] <Rolf> maybe can assist on
web design
L425[11:33:08] <Rolf> yeah menu system
sucks
L426[11:33:59] <APlayer> "Become a
member and get a chance to win a free trip to The
Gateway"
L427[11:34:06] *
APlayer frowns
L428[11:34:14]
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L429[11:34:19] <Althego> lol this is like
the watsitsname spacegame that is never finished
L430[11:34:36] <Althego> it lives off of
promises
L431[11:34:44] ⇦
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L432[11:34:51] <Rolf> its something i know
is extremely unlikely but hope for anyway
L433[11:34:58] <Rolf> we really do need a
real space program
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L435[11:35:12] <Rolf> not toy rockets,
actual space colonization and worlds
L436[11:35:27] <APlayer> I would trust
many other companies before I trust this one
L437[11:35:33] <Rolf> but we need to move
on from toy chemical rockets
L438[11:35:34] <APlayer> At first glance,
that is
L439[11:35:44] <Althego> nukes?
L440[11:36:13] <APlayer> SpaceX is a good
start, there have been some Mars and Moon colonization efforts, and
one or two even looked more or less serious
L441[11:36:29] <Rolf> Althego: no, you
watch issac channel on youtube?
L442[11:36:36] <Althego> rarely
L443[11:36:41] <Althego> too much fiction
in it
L444[11:36:46] <Rolf> there is bunch of
ways to get package off world
L445[11:36:55] <APlayer> There is
Breakthrough Starshot, which I don't really doubt anymore (they
probably won't deliver on time, but I am certain that they will be
the first to send a probe to another star system)
L446[11:37:02] <Rolf> fiction? well maybe
but 100% using known science
L447[11:37:17] <Rolf> no "magic"
or "divide by 0" stuff like faster than light
drives
L448[11:37:19] <Althego> that is why it is
science fiction
L449[11:37:28] <packbart> ah, well, I lost
$40 on worse kickstarter campaigns. Maybe if I remember next week,
I'll join and hope they'll get that thing up and running by
december ;)
L450[11:38:07] <APlayer> The ISS successor
- what was the name again? - should be a solid first gateway to
expeditions. We are not at the point to even seriously plan
colonization
L451[11:38:58] <Eddi|zuHause> <Rolf>
we really do need a real space program <-- part of the problem,
like with the manned moon missions, is, we know we can get there,
but we don't know what to actually DO there
L452[11:39:11] <Rolf> Eddi|zuHause: mine
He3
L453[11:39:31] <packbart> yeah, the Moon
appears to be quite the boring place
L454[11:39:31] <Rolf> if I recall element
name correctly. great for reactors
L455[11:39:35] <APlayer> Well, we mostly
know how to do on Earth, and we basically know /what/ to do on
Earth
L456[11:39:54] <Eddi|zuHause> and which of
the current marketable technologies can process He3?
L457[11:40:05] <APlayer> I suppose the
Moon is, with the low gravity, a solid strategic location for cheap
access into space
L458[11:40:33] <APlayer> Lots of almost
free real estate
L459[11:40:42] <Rolf> none that I know of
but then there WILL be a use
L460[11:40:47] <Rolf> and its huge
resource
L461[11:40:49] <packbart> which reminds me
to look at that Interplanetary Launchpads mod
L462[11:41:05] <packbart>
s/Inter/Extra/
L463[11:41:10] <Rolf> He3 is maybe inch
thick on top? but whole moon
L464[11:41:29] <Eddi|zuHause> APlayer:
that's basically like the westward expansion of the US... loads of
basically free land, and the first one to manage to settle there
gets it?
L465[11:41:34] <Rolf> ok lemme look up if
he3 is correct
L467[11:41:55] <APlayer> Eddi, I suppose
that's about what will happen
L468[11:42:10] <Rolf> happened in
america
L469[11:42:13] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: yes,
He3 is a byproduct of constant radiation impact on the moon
L470[11:42:21] <APlayer> Bonus, no need to
shoo away any native peoples
L471[11:42:27] <Althego> first make a
working fusion reactor
L472[11:42:31] <Rolf> ya wanted to make
sure that I understand and remember correctly
L473[11:42:32] <Althego> then you can
start collecting helium 3
L474[11:42:43] <Rolf> cant test reactor
with no he3
L475[11:42:45] <Eddi|zuHause> Althego:
yes, exactly what i meant
L476[11:43:03] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: there
are enough ways to get He3 in testing amounts
L477[11:43:06] <Rolf> so there must be in
least minimal gathering of he3 and shipping it to research
L478[11:43:08] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf:
without going to the moon
L479[11:43:08] <Althego> actually you can
test a fusion reactor to a degree without helium 3
L480[11:43:11] <Althego> and in fact they
do
L481[11:43:12] <Rolf> hmm ok
L482[11:43:40] <Althego> i remember the
first test of the windelstein 7-x stellerator (what a cool name)
was with hydrogen plasma
L483[11:43:52] <Rolf> 15kg a year
according to that site, on earth from maintance of nuclear
weapons
L484[11:44:13] <Rolf> also my recall of
inches is wrong, its few meters deep
L485[11:44:17] <Althego> oh wait, the
reverse
L486[11:44:25] <Althego> it was helium
plasma first, then hydrogen
L487[11:44:25] <Eddi|zuHause> Althego:
afaik, they use a mixture of D and T to make He3 in that
L488[11:44:30] <Althego> but not helium
3
L489[11:45:03] <Eddi|zuHause> He3 is
basically an intermediate product to He4
L490[11:45:21] <Rolf> Althego: theres a
way to launch off using strangely enough, active support system to
create huge bridge pretty high up in sky
L491[11:45:37] <Rolf> cost maybe few
billion bucks but you can launch megatons afterwards
L492[11:45:46] <Rolf> makes space setups
hell of a lot easier
L493[11:45:54] <Althego> how does that
work?
L494[11:46:14] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: sounds
very fiction
L495[11:46:27] <Rolf> Eddi|zuHause: it is,
but physics sound
L496[11:46:34] <Rolf> which it can be
built
L497[11:46:38] <Rolf> *means
L498[11:46:55] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: if you
can build that, you can also build a proper space elevator
L500[11:47:00] <kmath> YouTube - Launch
Loops
L501[11:47:02] <Rolf> Eddi|zuHause:
no
L503[11:47:30] <Rolf> space elevator needs
extremely strong material. space loop (found name) does need strong
material but not nearly as strong
L504[11:47:46] <Althego> and you must keep
it running
L505[11:47:58] <Rolf> if you slow down it
would land into ocean
L506[11:48:08] <Rolf> its how you rise it
also
L507[11:48:16] <Rolf> increase active
support power and it rises
L508[11:48:52] <Rolf> basically build it,
float it out to ocean, build ends attach it, then do tests whatever
then rise it
L509[11:49:05] <Rolf> if it fails well
it'll crash into ocean and sink
L510[11:49:21] <Althego> and destroys
eerything near
L511[11:49:29] <Rolf> 4:00 shows one of
endpoints
L512[11:49:39] <Rolf> well yeah but then
theres likely nothing near anyway
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L515[11:52:02] <Rolf> nice though
autpcaptions ehh
L516[11:52:03] ⇦
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L517[11:53:22] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: i see
nothing in that video that suggests this is actually a feasible
endeavour. materials and logistics wise
L518[11:53:49] <Rolf> space towers (next
in 3 video series) explains more about active support system
L519[11:54:06] <Althego> also have to keep
those running
L520[11:54:11] <Althego> otherwise they
collapse
L521[11:54:11] <Rolf> there is also space
ring (forgot whgat they called it) version. its around entire
world
L522[11:54:35] <Rolf> Althego: yeah though
its apparently designed to be able to land on ocean so can depower
for maintance
L523[11:54:43] <Rolf> everything in world
needs maintance.
L524[11:54:54] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: but
how exactly does "active" support cost less energy than a
rocket launch?
L525[11:54:56] <Althego> anyway these are
currently too far out
L526[11:55:24] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: this
thing is at least a century away, more like two
L527[11:55:30] <Rolf> never said less
energy, just less chemical reaction dependancy and can launch far
heavier stuff into space
L528[11:55:50] <Rolf> which means launch
costs far less which kickstarts space programs
L529[11:56:09] <Rolf> you can see result
of cutting space launch cost by a factpr
L530[11:56:15] <Rolf> imange if it cost
0.1%
L531[11:57:10] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: a
space elevator (or whatever other structure) is not a thing you
"start" a space program with
L532[11:57:43] <Rolf> yeah we would start
with chemical rockets
L533[11:57:48] <Rolf> we already did
L534[11:58:01] <Rolf> but ulimately its
capping on how much we can launch
L535[11:58:16] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: yes,
but we're not nearly near that limit
L536[11:58:41] <Eddi|zuHause> and i doubt
we're reaching this limit during my lifetime
L537[11:58:57] <Rolf> 9:30 on that video
show crude explaination on how active support for launch loops
works
L538[11:59:33] <Rolf> I bet can build one
using garden hoses. a model of one anyway
L539[12:00:23] <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, that's
not the point?
L540[12:01:27] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: you
need such a thing if you want to carry hundreds of people per day
to mars and back
L541[12:02:00] <Rolf> yeah thats the
problem, you need demend to build, and you need to build for demend
to exist
L542[12:02:04] <Eddi|zuHause> Rolf: but we
won't have a need for that frequent/large scale travel for at least
100 years
L543[12:02:52] <Rolf> its definitely not
something need to build right now but soon
L544[12:03:13] <Rolf> 100 years is
"soon" in humanity terms but yeah
L545[12:03:22] <Eddi|zuHause> i'm
disputing your claim of "soon"
L546[12:03:47] <Rolf> i kinda wanna try to
build garden hose model. lol
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L548[12:04:21] <Rolf> is there a water
pump that can pump, keeping orginial water velocity?
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L551[12:06:11] <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, what?
that question makes no sense
L552[12:06:28] <Rolf> well theres plenty
of water pumps
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L554[12:06:41] <Rolf> but most work by
pushing still water into speed
L555[12:06:55] <Rolf> but dont think
theres way to "boost" speed of water in hose
L556[12:07:50] <packbart> same volume per
time. speeds may vary
L557[12:08:14] <Rolf> eh doubt I will
actually try build it anyway lol
L558[12:08:22] <Rolf> laters :) good
discussion lol
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L595[15:09:40] <Mod9000> Hello, cb
L597[15:09:47] <Mod9000> Hello, cb
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L601[15:10:34] <Mat2ch> eh, wat
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L605[15:31:28] <Mat2ch> Uhm.
L606[15:31:43] <Mat2ch> My Eve ascend
vehicle overperformed.
L607[15:31:58] <Mat2ch> three kerbals and
ever 2000 m/s dV left in orbit?!
L608[15:32:10] <Mat2ch> Launched from 1.5
km
L610[15:37:06] <JVFoxy> a little extra
height can make quite a bit difference sometimes
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L612[15:52:50] <Mat2ch> also I'd like to
see a good application for the inflatable heat shield
L613[15:53:04] <Mat2ch> it has so much
drag that it always turns everything upside down
L614[15:53:12] <Mat2ch> it's more like a
parachute...
L615[15:59:48] <JVFoxy> are you using it
for full on re-entry or just to help slow down a little,
aerocapture?
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L619[16:19:51] <Mat2ch> JVFoxy: full on
re-entry
L620[16:20:24] <Mat2ch> well, next try
will be with normal heat shields. But many of them...
L621[16:20:44] <Mat2ch> or I try to angle
them a bit
L622[16:20:47] <Mat2ch> that could
help
L623[16:21:10] <JVFoxy> trouble is...
inflato is acting like a wing or something. Helps if you keep most
of your heavy weight down close to it
L624[16:21:35] <Mat2ch> It's something
that has to get up from Eve again. It's huge ;)
L625[16:21:44] <Mat2ch> CoM is pretty low,
but not low enough it seems
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L627[16:22:24] <JVFoxy> ouch.. I'd be a
little concerned trying to land something quite that big
L628[16:22:40] <Mat2ch> When it comes to
Eve, I'm always concerned.
L629[16:23:26] <JVFoxy> ok then let me
ask.. you coming directly in from transfer to land?
L630[16:24:06] <Mat2ch> I'm also
considering a powered landing and refueling (and ditching
everything not necesary to get back to orbit...)
L631[16:24:20] <Mat2ch> nop, 300 km
orbit
L632[16:25:21] <JVFoxy> ok good... because
that be quite a lot of energy to burn off for something big to go
directly to landing.. go for aero capture first, maybe even a
couple of them to help slow things down first
L633[16:25:53] <Mat2ch> I'll bring enough
fuel to do a powered insertion :D
L634[16:26:29] <JVFoxy> in the real world
though, they do an actual burn for capture, then aero to help bring
eccentric orbit down quite a way.
L635[16:27:27] <Mat2ch> Hm. When I do a
powered landing with refueling, I could use the main stage to first
get to Gilly, refuel there, then do the landing, refuel
again...
L636[16:27:28] <JVFoxy> you got infernal
robotics installed?
L637[16:27:33] <Mat2ch> Nop
L638[16:27:40] <Mat2ch> IR doesn't work
with the never versions :(
L639[16:27:52] <JVFoxy> ok then scratch
fold out heat sheld peddles then :P
L640[16:28:00] <Mat2ch> hehe
L641[16:28:21] <JVFoxy> oh.. good to know.
I considered IR for 1.6.1 when I get around to picking ckan mods
for video
L642[16:28:32] <JVFoxy> please tell me
KIS/KAS at least works?
L643[16:28:36] <Mat2ch> well, time to get
some sleep
L644[16:28:40] <Mat2ch> nighty night
L645[16:29:53] <JVFoxy> oh.. mm lates
then
L646[16:40:43] <packbart> oh, first
intermod problem. KerbalHotseat makes TacLS see (and count) Ghosts.
or maybe Coremone Kerman really was in two places at once as he
transferred instantly from one end of the station to the
other
L648[16:49:01] <Fluburtur> why does the
french internet network starts dying every time I try to watch a
movie
L649[16:50:16] <JVFoxy> 3crew... shoulda
put a space there, nearly read it wrong
L650[16:52:55] <packbart> Living 200 days
in a ~1m tube, I'd feel 3crewed, too
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L652[16:55:45] <JVFoxy> isn't it
1.25m?
L653[16:55:57] <packbart> on the
outside
L654[16:56:36] <packbart> Kerbals are
small, though
L655[16:56:39] <JVFoxy> considering its
kerbals.. they pretty small compared to people
L656[16:57:06] <JVFoxy> ring and ball I
would hope privodes a bit more space for activities
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L660[17:15:13] <Fluburtur> it is supposed
to have supersonic exhaust velocity so I could just add a post
combustion and a nice nozzle to have shock diamonds
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L686[20:51:48] <darsie> packbart: I can't
find it.
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L690[21:02:29] <darsie> Can I have a mute
button, please?
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L693[21:16:33] <lordcirth_> Interesting. I
just encountered a case where KER was wrong and stock's delta-v was
right.
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L695[21:19:25] <darsie> I've seen KER be
wrong, too, IIRC.
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L706[22:47:59] <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen
someone be wrong on the internet once
L707[22:53:49] <Rolf> noo wow!
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L710[23:08:45] <lordcirth_> I've seen KER
be wrong before, but not recently.
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