OCLogs: 2018-08-07.log

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L1[00:04:06] <Althego> well, the whole poffice infrastreucture is down

L2[00:04:13] <Althego> at least i can watch the spacex launch in peace

L3[00:04:41] <IRTFRaptor> Taking down the network so you can watch a launch?

L4[00:04:50] <Althego> the network is mostly ok

L5[00:04:59] <Althego> just around 80% of essential services are down

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L8[00:09:33] <JVFoxy> .... that doesn't sound too good

L9[00:10:47] <Althego> i like "das blinkenlights" on the towers

L10[00:11:41] <Althego> supposedly the sysadmin is on his way already

L11[00:14:34] <Althego> before sleeping yesterday i thought of the rodriguez formula, which means if i choose the axis correctly, 1 axis folding should be enough to rotate the wings from the minimal space flat from the body to spread horizontally from the body

L12[00:14:57] <Althego> 3 minutes until launch

L13[00:17:00] <JVFoxy> geez.. 44k people watching

L14[00:17:13] <Althego> 1 minute

L15[00:17:34] <Althego> they could be a successful entertainment company

L16[00:17:43] <Althego> they just need to do launches all the time :)

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L18[00:18:19] <Tortoise767> launch!

L19[00:18:26] <Malachite> woo we into space

L20[00:18:59] <Althego> because the ends are pointing in the right directions :)

L21[00:19:14] <Althego> wait, the noise, is that from the rocket camera?

L22[00:19:42] <Althego> no probably it was from the ground

L23[00:19:53] <JVFoxy> oooh dual screen :)

L24[00:19:56] <Althego> because i can hear people now

L25[00:20:36] <Malachite> pretty flames

L26[00:21:00] <Althego> the green ignition flash :)

L27[00:21:14] <Malachite> i love watching the impulse from the second stage acting on the first <_<

L28[00:21:15] <JVFoxy> staged.. fire in the hole! ;P

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L30[00:21:38] <Althego> hehe the upper stage was lighting up the grid fins for a while

L31[00:21:50] <JVFoxy> geez.. that second is pretty glowy

L32[00:22:43] <JVFoxy> going to land booster I guess?

L33[00:22:55] <Althego> on the timeline

L34[00:24:06] <Althego> i didnt think the cold gas rcs would be visible

L35[00:24:11] <Althego> or what is that

L36[00:24:43] <Althego> hmm that was the main engine

L37[00:25:13] <Althego> those lights

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L39[00:25:30] <Althego> heh

L40[00:25:40] <Althego> i wanted to say, sure we will not see the landing this time either

L41[00:26:13] <Althego> this was the main event

L42[00:26:19] <Althego> and we cant see it

L43[00:26:34] <Althego> and the ship loses connection in the last seconds too

L44[00:26:42] <Althego> as always

L45[00:26:52] <Althego> the masses are not satisfied

L46[00:26:55] <Althego> by the sound

L47[00:27:32] <Malachite> heh

L48[00:27:36] <Althego> as usual

L49[00:27:42] <Malachite> they're getting good at this <_<

L50[00:27:54] <Althego> it is starting to be suspicious. do they really land these? :)

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L53[00:29:51] <JVFoxy> ugh.. flying my new plane back to ksc.. then so many things hit me just as I was about to land..

L54[00:29:59] <JVFoxy> this launch.. then a couple of calls asking for help tomorrow...

L55[00:30:05] <Althego> bird strike? :)

L56[00:31:15] <UmbralRaptop> As long as it's not a bird strike from behind…

L57[00:31:21] <JVFoxy> .... that name for the landing barge...

L58[00:31:28] <JVFoxy> bird what..?

L59[00:31:35] <Althego> of course i still love you and just read the instructions

L60[00:31:47] <Althego> 3rd one is built currently

L61[00:32:00] <JVFoxy> oh.. eh..

L62[00:32:22] <Althego> bird strike is when a plane hits a bird, it can cause serious damage

L63[00:32:24] <JVFoxy> no just game paused.. went ot watch launch then stupid call came in just a few second after ignition

L64[00:32:50] <JVFoxy> well more hit as in, surprised this is going on

L65[00:33:41] <JVFoxy> given how much stuff floating around up there, wonder they ever figured chances of smacking something going up..

L66[00:33:54] <Althego> yes there are chances

L67[00:33:58] <Althego> have to plan carefully

L68[00:35:24] <JVFoxy> I see ISS on other side of south america at the moment

L69[00:35:46] <Althego> i cant see that far

L70[00:36:25] <Althego> the 3rd one is the shortfall of gravitas

L71[00:36:31] <Althego> (drone ship)

L72[00:36:44] <Althego> no, not the, a

L73[00:36:46] <JVFoxy> well according to tracking...

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L76[00:38:41] <JVFoxy> ick... think this plane a little OP'd... landing literally have to throttle engines down to almost nothing

L77[00:39:02] <JVFoxy> iss pasing over middle of Chile... ;)

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L80[00:55:05] <JVFoxy> .... need.... for .. speed! https://imgur.com/a/goMC5xK

L81[00:55:06] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/tkdvkgI.jpg

L82[00:55:26] <Althego> hehe

L83[00:55:32] <JVFoxy> flies pretty good..

L84[00:55:39] <Althego> try the tiny engines for this size

L85[00:55:40] <JVFoxy> 12km up.. does around 500m/s

L86[00:56:03] <JVFoxy> 4km up, does nearly 700m/s but problems with over heating...

L87[00:56:18] <Althego> the engines?

L88[00:56:25] <Althego> because the body should do fine

L89[00:56:31] <JVFoxy> I think jeb was complaining. He went eva at the pole, had a heat guage over his head

L90[00:56:38] <Althego> hehe

L91[00:56:57] <JVFoxy> body was fine.. engines started going red... same with intakes

L92[00:57:05] <UmbralRaptop> Thermally limited craft generally need really low throttles to land.

L93[01:15:36] <JVFoxy> Althego before i got the 1.4.5 update a little bit back, previous vervsion of KSP did do a smaller engine version. https://imgur.com/a/8aMenMR

L94[01:15:37] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/cs9Yv7F.jpg

L95[01:15:52] <Althego> i remember this

L96[01:15:58] <JVFoxy> ah ok

L97[01:17:28] * UmbralRaptop is amused at how easy it is to go at mach 2 with the basic jet these days.

L98[01:19:29] <JVFoxy> with the juno's it could only do just slightly less than mach 1.. and only around 7km..

L99[01:19:45] <JVFoxy> weezer version does 400-500m/s around 12-13km up

L100[01:22:04] <JVFoxy> panther version.. be a little ... nuts

L101[01:22:10] <UmbralRaptop> put on a pair of whiplashes for shenanigans.

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L106[01:28:38] <JVFoxy> ugh derp

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L131[05:00:48] *** agise__ is now known as hashashin

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L135[05:19:34] <Rolf> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfq9IoUJBIKORP6Q0Zp4dIg/videos enjoy

L136[05:24:46] <Inari> Have wobbly rockets been addressed, or ddo you still need to us docking ports/whatever https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/3z90gv/why_rockets_wobble_and_how_to_fix_it_blame_the/ used?

L137[05:25:06] <Rolf> kraken is mean

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L139[05:31:43] <Mat2ch> Rolf: some parts have be strengthened and you can now select that you want a hard connection

L140[05:32:19] <Rolf> stock game?

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L142[05:34:23] <Inari> Hm

L143[05:34:27] <Inari> I see

L144[05:34:43] <Inari> Well back to trying to find a video that explains to me why my rockets are hard to control inside the atmosphere :D

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L146[05:37:16] <Mat2ch> Rolf: yes

L147[05:37:36] <Mat2ch> Inari: can you show us a picture of your rocket?

L148[05:37:59] <Rolf> cool

L149[05:40:04] <APlayer> Ahh... I have a 128 GB SSD and a 512 GB HDD on my PC. The SSD is the main memory device I use, and the HDD is always disabled, because of noise, and because of ransomware anxiety, so it is empty since I installed it half a year or so ago. Naturally, the SSD fills up and I only have 15 GB or so left for things. I just remembered that I have the HDD and moved most of my images and backups over to it, and it

L150[05:40:04] <APlayer> feels so good to free up like 40 GB of space :D

L151[05:40:36] <APlayer> It's so slow, though

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L153[05:44:13] <Triffid_Hunter> heh I got a 512G NVMe and a 1T spinning rust.. the latter only does about 130MB/s but that's fine for random media

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L155[05:46:54] <Inari> Mat2ch: I get it with various rockets, but sure, just a second

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L157[05:53:47] <Inari> Mat2ch: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/295953846054944768/476341705386360856/unknown.png?width=349&height=676

L158[05:54:22] <Gasher[work]> looks ok to me, unstable but controllable

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L160[05:56:26] <Inari> They often work for a while, but then end up becoming very sensitive and nudge over and spin at the slightest provocation (or none at all). Especially once you get fast enough to see the wind effects

L161[05:58:34] <Gasher[work]> it's not wind effects heh

L162[05:59:02] <Gasher[work]> plus where do they become unstable? higher when the atmosphere is too thin for the control surfaces>

L163[05:59:04] <Gasher[work]> ?

L164[06:00:14] <Inari> Lower in it

L165[06:00:27] <Inari> Hm whats it called it not wind effects :D

L166[06:03:21] <Inari> Mostly when trying to fly at angles in the lower atmosphere I guess

L167[06:04:07] <Gasher[work]> then don't get ouit of the controllable AoA

L168[06:06:20] <Inari> Hard to do when the explicit goal is to fly at angles :D

L169[06:07:09] <Gasher[work]> well you gonna compromise anyway

L170[06:08:21] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/425858490532102154/476297354593566740/unknown.png

L171[06:13:22] <Inari> Hrm

L172[06:13:37] <Inari> E.g. trying to shoot a rocket to the mountians. Or trying to do the first mission of Making History

L173[06:14:25] <Gasher[work]> to the mountain to the east?

L174[06:15:50] <Althego> lol big planes eat small planes

L175[06:16:41] <Inari> Aren't the mountains to the north?

L176[06:16:58] <Gasher[work]> i think eastern ones are closer

L177[06:17:24] <Mat2ch> sorry, fetched some lunch for me

L178[06:17:47] <Inari> Hm well whichever ones are on those grasslands

L179[06:18:06] <Mat2ch> Inari: well, ok, the main problem is the probe core

L180[06:18:34] <Inari> I had a rocket that seemed to work well for that :D But then I added more weight for sicence stuff and that probably changes something, but I'm not quite sure how the aerodynamics vs weight work

L181[06:19:04] <Gasher[work]> lol

L182[06:19:06] <Mat2ch> it has no stability control, so with the slightes tap it will fall over

L183[06:19:13] <Gasher[work]> CoM behind CoL

L184[06:19:24] <Inari> I guess keyboards aren't ideal for piloting

L185[06:19:38] <Mat2ch> what do you want to achieve with that rocket? Just height?

L186[06:19:41] <Gasher[work]> they are sufficient if you keep that in mind

L187[06:19:51] <Inari> Also yay I need to restart MakingHistory I guess, because when I load my save I'm in the Tracking station and exiting that freezes the game

L188[06:20:07] <Inari> Mat2ch: The one from the picture was for a mission of Making History, to fly through specific spots

L189[06:20:14] <Mat2ch> ok

L190[06:20:23] <Inari> Oh guess it loaded

L191[06:20:27] <Inari> Just needed a minute or so o.o

L192[06:20:31] <Mat2ch> first, move the control surfaces back. As far back as possible

L193[06:20:58] <Mat2ch> also you want to have more or bigger wings at the lower stage

L194[06:22:03] <Gasher[work]> Inari, do you realise that such flight that you try to have is a balance of forces?

L195[06:22:15] <Mat2ch> and reduce the control surface movement

L196[06:23:18] <Gasher[work]> Mat2ch, sounds like fine tuning in a place where there are much more larger issues

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L199[06:24:20] <Inari> Gasher[work]: I suppose? It's just forces I have neither a clue about, nor any indication of

L200[06:24:59] <Gasher[work]> you have

L201[06:25:23] <Gasher[work]> turn on CoM and CoL and thrust indicators in VAB/SPH

L202[06:25:36] <Gasher[work]> yellow blue and magenta balls

L203[06:26:09] <Mat2ch> Gasher[work]: You missed my first suggestion it seems :/

L204[06:26:30] <Gasher[work]> Mat2ch, about picture?

L205[06:26:50] <Mat2ch> moving the control surfaces as far back as possible

L206[06:27:23] <Mat2ch> but getting CoL and CoM right (and maybe not using two stages for such a small rocket) may be the better thing to do

L207[06:28:30] <Gasher[work]> Mat2ch, rigth but i thought it would be better to get Inari to see what happens when stuff is moved around in the rocket

L208[06:28:56] <Mat2ch> you're absolutely right. That will help Inari for future builds (and also planes. ;)

L209[06:28:59] <Inari> I know those overlays, I just barely know what they mean (at least the lift one) The left one also seems to sometimes vanish entirely

L210[06:29:14] <Mat2ch> uh, wait, there's a great forum post about this

L211[06:29:16] <Inari> *the lift one

L212[06:30:31] <Mat2ch> https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/47818-basic-aircraft-design-explained-simply-with-pictures/

L213[06:30:48] <Mat2ch> This is about planes. But it also applies to rockets

L214[06:30:57] <Mat2ch> because rockets are like planes. Just without the wings. :D

L215[06:31:02] <Inari> What somewhat confused me is that the CoL on the rocket has no "direction" pointing out

L216[06:31:39] <Inari> The idea of making it a two stage rocekt was mostly since smaller rockets seemed easier to turn :D

L217[06:32:19] <Inari> Though somehow in this example the upper stage is a lot harder to control, even in the thinner air

L218[06:32:22] <Mat2ch> Rotate the rocket a bit

L219[06:32:41] <Mat2ch> rotate the rocket just like you're flying through the atmosphere

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L221[06:32:51] <Mat2ch> if you fly straight up, you don't have any lift

L222[06:33:00] <Mat2ch> even if there are lifting surfaces, there's no lift generated

L223[06:33:13] <Mat2ch> lift is only generated if you press the wings into the wind

L224[06:35:34] <Inari> I see

L225[06:35:53] <Inari> Any way to see the CoL and CoM of individual stages without finnickly removing stuff?

L226[06:36:46] <Mat2ch> Not that I know of

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L228[06:47:55] <Inari> Hmm so the lower stage seems more responsive now, the upper stage is hard though :D

L229[06:49:30] <Gasher[work]> sorry went afk

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L231[06:52:06] <Mat2ch> Inari: why two stages? Is that in the mission description?

L232[06:52:24] <Inari> A big rocket seemed more unwieldy, mostly

L233[06:52:47] <Mat2ch> it's not

L234[06:52:51] <Inari> Plus I need more fuel for it of course

L235[06:52:53] <Mat2ch> when designed correctly ;)

L236[06:53:01] <Mat2ch> you save one engine

L237[06:53:07] <Mat2ch> space to pack more fuel :D

L238[06:53:28] <Mat2ch> That rocket seems like it has a too high TWR anyways

L239[06:55:09] <Inari> Potentially haha

L240[06:55:13] <Inari> I should install engineer redux again

L241[06:55:49] <Mat2ch> yes, you should

L242[06:56:02] <Inari> I never understood why thats not in the basegame :P

L243[06:56:15] <Mat2ch> Nobody here does

L244[06:56:30] <Mat2ch> we've talked about this for years, but the devs don't care

L245[06:56:31] <Inari> Hehe

L246[06:57:01] <Mat2ch> also an autopilot for long missions

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L248[06:57:12] <Mat2ch> a better lift model maybe

L249[06:57:19] <Mat2ch> because right now we have lift and drag.

L250[06:57:24] <Mat2ch> And in reality it's all the same

L251[06:57:33] <Mat2ch> there's only air particles hitting surfaces

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L253[06:57:40] <Mat2ch> *there are

L254[06:57:40] <Inari> One reason why I dislike playing with science is that I hit the point where it seems best to explore all the biomes for science points. But that seems like a pain to do :P

L255[06:58:02] <Mat2ch> Go for Minmus and do some science farming there :D

L256[06:58:08] <Mat2ch> it's pretty fast.

L257[06:58:13] <Mat2ch> Bring a few tanker

L258[07:13:07] <Fluburtur> k im gonna try to go fly one of my flying wings

L259[07:13:17] <Fluburtur> can't fly the vg33 yet otherwise the curse will hit

L260[07:24:54] <Mat2ch> what curse?

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L262[07:51:16] <Fluburtur> oh god it's too hot outside

L263[07:51:32] <Fluburtur> the curse is that if I fly a plane alone, the day will be bad

L264[07:51:39] <Fluburtur> and bad things will happen

L265[07:51:44] <Fluburtur> and I don't want to risk the vg33

L266[07:56:42] <Gasher[work]> and no one would record your epic fail piloting?

L267[07:56:59] <Fluburtur> yeah exept I always pilot nice

L268[07:57:01] <APlayer> Bring Jeb

L269[07:57:08] <Gasher[work]> Fluburtur, ok :)

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L271[08:26:20] <Gasher[work]> oh my

L272[08:27:44] <Gasher[work]> look at this https://imgur.com/a/pg3O3qL

L273[08:28:06] <Gasher[work]> looks like a nice desk lathe, right?

L274[08:28:10] <Fluburtur> yeah

L275[08:28:18] <Gasher[work]> or are they called bench lathes?

L276[08:28:21] <Gasher[work]> nevermind

L277[08:28:24] <Gasher[work]> Fluburtur, NOPE https://imgur.com/a/1gfoMgL

L278[08:28:25] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/9YU9YcQ.jpg

L279[08:31:08] <Gasher[work]> so it's like pocket-size lathe

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L282[08:31:43] <Gasher[work]> people speculate that it might be some kind of souvenir or exhibition piece from the past

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L306[11:26:42] <kremlin> y'all know any tricks to speed up KSP load time?

L307[11:26:54] <kremlin> CKAN + tons of mods makes it very slow

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L317[12:06:08] <APlayer> kremlin: 1) Delete all the parts you don't use, 2) Don't change your GameData folder contents often, as Module Manager checks it against a previous hash and loads the cache if, but only if, it was not altered since last time. Otherwise, it has to fully re-parse the patches

L318[12:06:33] <APlayer> The load time is largely loading high-res part textures and the Module Manager part

L319[12:07:07] <APlayer> May also keep KSP on an SSD, but I am not sure how much that speeds up loading

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L322[12:11:06] <Althego> experiments with the ball rcs and thermal electric prop are thus far not yielding the expected result

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L324[12:15:38] <kremlin> APlayer: ty

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L328[12:42:31] <Draconiator> https://i.gyazo.com/4a6783da5f54487dc54be77dcb7db76f.png - Got a friend that is getting this on a loop, I think she's on Windows 10. Attempting to solve the problem with her.

L329[12:56:26] <Althego> i tried the slanted axis hinges to do the 2 axis rotation of the wings in one, just cant get it right, maybe it is not possible

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L332[13:16:32] <APlayer> Draconiator: Sounds like a BIOS problem

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L337[13:46:07] <Althego> maybe with the working bearing i can go back to the wing rotating on top concept

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L340[13:55:48] <Althego> yes it is not working very well. it would fly and fit in a cargo bay, but accomplishing the rotation is tough

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L346[14:19:46] <Althego> hah it works

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L357[14:50:46] <CandyAngel> Are there any fixes for stuff like the reputation being deducted twice with the Rep->Science strategy?

L358[14:50:58] <CandyAngel> As far as I can tell, the bug has been known since 2014 -.-

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L372[15:47:08] <kremlin> what is the difference between light/medium/heavy struts?

L373[15:47:12] <kremlin> functionally

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L395[17:01:43] <Eddi|zuHause> i'd assume the amount of stress they can take?

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