OCLogs: 2018-05-28.log

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L8[00:57:26] <Draconiator> Amazon says my shipment wuill be here in a month.....my SSD came from China and it was here in a few days. What gives?

L9[00:57:45] <Althego> the collapse of capitalism

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L14[01:45:54] <Rolf> china invented matter tranmissor

L15[01:49:06] <Althego> what is that

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L46[05:42:32] <Eddi|zuHause> a thing that moves matter from one place to another?

L47[05:42:35] <Eddi|zuHause> like a piston?

L48[05:42:39] <Eddi|zuHause> or a donkey cart?

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L52[06:46:22] <Epi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4zFefh5T-8

L53[06:46:23] <kmath> YouTube - Aerospike Engines - Why Aren't We Using them Now?

L54[06:48:56] <Althego> maybe with sstos

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L72[09:42:22] <UmbralRaptor> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/450/10-ways-to-bbq-on-an-exoplanet/

L73[09:43:46] <ve2dmn> 3,700 planets? That we knows of?

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L75[09:45:26] <ve2dmn> I forgot it was a US holiday today. Might explain the NY state licences plates I saw

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L77[09:48:08] <UmbralRaptor> ve2dmn: Approximately. Blame Kepler.

L78[09:48:31] <UmbralRaptor> And yeah, bus service is a bit lacking today.

L79[09:48:52] <ve2dmn> Blame? It'a 2700 more then I knew

L80[09:49:14] <ve2dmn> UmbralRaptor: It is a day off where you are?

L81[09:50:15] <UmbralRaptor> ve2dmn: for some people. I mainly experience it as a lack of services.

L82[09:50:36] <ve2dmn> *sigh*

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L84[09:50:53] <ve2dmn> I... no comments

L85[09:51:27] <UmbralRaptor> As in I usually don't get the day off, but eg: buses, banks, etc…

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L87[09:53:40] <ve2dmn> Here's it's the reverse. The default is to get the day off unless you are an essential service... or are paid extra to show up

L88[09:55:39] <ve2dmn> Of course it's not the same days in every province, but it is for federal holidays

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L90[10:00:26] <ve2dmn> I've played too much Surviving Mars and now this song is struck in my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtdKgJqEIEU

L91[10:00:27] <kmath> YouTube - Dr Pops - Celestial ( Surviving Mars OST )

L92[10:01:15] <ve2dmn> I'm almost SURE I heard that song somewhere else

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L104[10:59:41] <Guest12949> Hello all. In 1.4.3 I'm stuck having landed a mission, where I can't recover the vessel, or save, or return to the space centre. Any advice, or have I no option but to abandon the game and start over from a previous save? I have tried that twice, so it may be my *last* save is the one with the problem...

L105[11:00:28] <Mat2ch> Guest12949: is that vessel slightly moving?

L106[11:00:37] <Althego> is time acceleration on?

L107[11:00:49] <Guest12949> Don't think so - it's on flat ground as far as I can tell, and acceleration is 1x

L108[11:01:01] <Mat2ch> did you try turining time acceleration on and off again and then to return to the space center?

L109[11:01:21] <Guest12949> Thanks Mat2ch, but that didn't work either

L110[11:01:22] <Mat2ch> What does the F3 menu tell you?

L111[11:01:41] <Guest12949> Landed at Kerbin?

L112[11:01:56] <Mat2ch> sounds like a bug to me then :|

L113[11:02:04] <Guest12949> :-(

L114[11:02:06] <Mat2ch> Can you wiggle the craft around a bit?

L115[11:02:21] <Guest12949> I'll try seeing how much reaction I have.

L116[11:03:23] <Guest12949> Nada. 2-man capsule sitting on its heat shield so I can't budge it.

L117[11:03:42] <Althego> that should be able to move by reaction wheels

L118[11:05:08] <Guest12949> Nothing doing; I have electric charge but it's not even wiggling. And ejecting the heat shield didn't work either (I'd expected a bounce).

L119[11:05:21] <Guest12949> OK, chalk it up to a bug and start over.

L120[11:05:51] <Althego> sounds like it is not even running physics

L121[11:06:57] <Guest12949> Well, it's now started wobbling around in reaction to the control inputs (good) but I still can't recover/save/return.

L122[11:07:51] <Guest12949> If I try to save it asks for a filename, accepts it, then locks the UI until / unless I press Escape.

L123[11:08:21] <APlayer> Guest12949: What does the debug menu say?

L124[11:09:16] <Guest12949> (blush) I'm not familiar with the debug menu - how do I get into that?

L125[11:11:31] <Guest12949> F3 (Flight results) says Landed at Kerbin

L126[11:11:54] <Althego> that should be completely recoverable

L127[11:13:14] <Guest12949> Aha - On a Mac - alt-fn-F12. Lots and lots of NullReferenceExceptions - that ain't ever good.

L128[11:13:25] <Althego> any mod?

L129[11:13:32] <Guest12949> What should I look for / poke with sharp sticks?

L130[11:15:17] <Guest12949> I've got a few installed: MechJeb2, KerbalAlarmClock, ForScience, TransferWindowPlanner, EasyVesselSwitch, ID Flags and Decals.

L131[11:16:46] <Althego> you could try to remove them one by one and see if the error goes persists, most of these dont seem to be essential

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L133[11:17:43] <Guest12949> Thanks Althego, but I am trying to preserve current progress, is it possible to unload modules on the fly? I assumed I'd have to quit / relaunch, which will lose my current mission status, no?

L134[11:18:18] <Althego> i dont know what forscience, id flags and decals do

L135[11:18:33] <Althego> but the others seem to be things you can do without, at least temporarily

L136[11:18:42] <Guest12949> ForScience just automates collecting science results

L137[11:18:47] <Althego> unless you have an actual part on the capsule that is provided by a mod

L138[11:18:50] <Guest12949> The decals just decorate your ship

L139[11:19:20] <Guest12949> I can do without all of the mods, but as I said, relaunching will lose my current status if I can't save, is that not correct?

L140[11:19:29] <Althego> yes

L141[11:20:23] <Guest12949> Sorry - I'm unclear. Is there a way to force a save when I can't from the GUI, so that I can quit and relaunch without losing progress?

L142[11:20:32] <Althego> dont know any

L143[11:20:53] <Althego> persistent may be triggered by scene change or something, but even that is bugged for you

L144[11:21:05] <Guest12949> OK, so you seem to be saying give up on current progress, quit, remove mods and relaunch to see if the bug goes away next time?

L145[11:21:20] <Mat2ch> Guest12949: can you EVA or something?

L146[11:21:29] <Althego> you could try to read the null reference exceptions

L147[11:21:31] <Althego> what they say

L148[11:21:35] <Althego> maybe google them

L149[11:21:40] <Althego> and narrow down the mod

L150[11:21:44] <Althego> but it is most probably a mod

L151[11:22:13] <Guest12949> I can EVA, but that doesn't resolve the problem. OK I'll see if the NPE provide any clues, thanks for taking the time to advise me, all.

L152[11:22:30] <Mat2ch> So you can EVA, but not recover the Kerbal then?

L153[11:23:02] <Mat2ch> does it quicksave if you press F5?

L154[11:23:18] <Guest12949> Correct Mat2ch, I can EVA and walk around (Physics OK) but I cannot recover that Kerbal.

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L156[11:25:26] <Guest12949> Any clues how I get more details out of a NullReferenceException? The console has no other information, just a bunch of lines with "Exception: NullReferenceException" in red, nothing else at all.

L157[11:25:51] <GlassYuri> check the log file

L158[11:26:17] <GlassYuri> but even then what you find might not be very useful to you

L159[11:26:33] <Guest12949> D'oh. Thanks GlassYuri, I'd thought there was more to be found in the Debug Console itself.

L160[11:27:10] <GlassYuri> if it constantly nullrefs every frame, something has become invalid, sometimes reloading the save file fixes it, sometimes deleting the offending vessel does

L161[11:27:49] <GlassYuri> been a while since I seriously played KSP so I'm not quite sure about the details, especially in recent versions

L162[11:27:54] <Guest12949> Doesn't seem to be *that* bad, so perhaps it's only in response to a trigger of some kind, or I have a deadlock somewhere

L163[11:28:38] <GlassYuri> I think in KSP a null reference can also happen when some of the orbital calculations start returning NaN

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L169[11:36:27] <Guest17800> Argh. Got disconnected. My log file is spamming away accumulating repeats of two NullReferences but neither seem directly mod-related to me? https://pastebin.com/X5AUEGCc

L170[11:37:12] <Althego> lol you dont even have wheel on the capsule how did those geth there

L171[11:37:24] <Guest17800> Well, I did wonder!

L172[11:37:50] <GlassYuri> ...how on earth

L173[11:37:50] <Guest17800> Perhaps another craft somewhere else in the Kerbiverse?

L174[11:38:04] <GlassYuri> the transform of that gameobject seems screwed up

L175[11:38:09] <Althego> physics only runs in a small bubble

L176[11:38:27] <Althego> few km

L177[11:38:42] <Althego> so anything that is outside doesnt do anything

L178[11:40:01] <Guest17800> Log file has grown by approx 100MB since we've been chatting, so unless there's any useful diagnostics to be collected, I think it's time to "shut 'er down, she's pumping mud..."

L179[11:40:28] <Althego> i am giving all she's got captn

L180[11:41:06] <Guest17800> ...and it's appreciated! I'm a doctor, not a software engineer, Jim!

L181[11:41:27] <Althego> good, i am neither :)

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L183[11:42:12] <Althego> in your case this may be because of a bug in the core game

L184[11:42:34] <Fluburtur> who was it that wanted to make self replicating rovers with some mods?

L185[11:42:41] <Althego> omg

L186[11:42:44] <Guest17800> Well, I've shut down, and will remove all mods and see if I can recreate the problem. Once again, grateful thanks to all, I've discovered bits of KSP I never knew existed!

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L190[11:54:42] <Fluburtur> https://78.media.tumblr.com/c633f49e1984d1250784577487b30c1e/tumblr_p9ewq17Yer1wlzpy3o1_540.png

L191[12:01:05] <Fluburtur> https://78.media.tumblr.com/bb1909a396208a86d489f22fa709910f/tumblr_obltlkUCd31rammdzo1_540.jpg

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L208[12:56:21] <BadRocketsCo> Howdy

L209[12:56:30] <Fluburtur> yo

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L211[12:57:01] <BadRocketsCo> What's up?

L212[12:57:24] <Fluburtur> not much

L213[12:57:37] <Althego> heyeyay, what's going on :)

L214[12:58:13] <ve2dmn> What's up? Space

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L216[12:58:54] * BadRocketsCo is angry at AIES landing gear not working

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L219[13:00:05] <GuestBanana> Anyone here want to talk boardgames?

L220[13:00:28] <ve2dmn> BoardGames? Like the Paradox Kickstarter?

L221[13:00:41] <ve2dmn> Or like Magic Maze? Or Zombicide?

L222[13:03:56] <Mat2ch> Or like Gloomhaven?

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L228[13:17:48] <GuestBanana> oh sorry I didn't see you

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L238[13:23:42] <schnobs> Making a Jool-5 video, devoting a whole 22 seconds to Bop and Pol. It looks hasty yet seems to be quite fitting.

L239[13:24:31] <schnobs> For scale, the "plant flag" routine takes six seconds to play out.

L240[13:27:09] <GuestBanana> schnobs: what are you using as your video editor

L241[13:27:51] <schnobs> Openshot.

L242[13:32:16] <schnobs> Which I think is quite good, overall. The limitation I feel the most is that I can't "zoom in" on music, like playing it at reduced speed or any kind visualisation that would help me find a (say) rimshot.

L243[13:32:37] <schnobs> So I have to move snippets back and forth until it fits.

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L260[14:19:37] <APlayer> https://i.imgur.com/r7QfR1M.jpg

L261[14:21:40] <ve2dmn> APlayer: on wheels!

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L269[14:44:31] ⇨ Joins: notGuest05953 (notGuest05953!webchat@235.241.227.216.tachus.com)

L270[14:44:50] <notGuest05953> hello

L271[14:44:52] <Mod9000> Hello, notGuest05953

L272[14:45:41] <notGuest05953> can someone help me with orbital rendezvous?

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L274[14:46:52] <Althego> yes, newton :)

L275[14:47:00] <Althego> oh wait, quit

L276[14:48:59] <APlayer> Gotta love how folks expect you to materialise on command and answer their questions

L277[14:49:27] <APlayer> That's not how the internet works, guys.

L278[15:08:25] <ve2dmn> But Internet gave us instant gratification

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L283[15:15:30] <Fluburtur> planks are possible in ksp https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/186186471202357249/450753944369496064/20180528221452_1.jpg

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L286[15:22:39] <Supernovy> Evening, Gentlemen.

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L288[15:30:56] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/186186471202357249/450757874436538428/20180528223005_1.jpg

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L297[16:01:35] <ve2dmn> Kerbal Truck Programme: https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/8mrpay/oh_okay_then_little_guy/

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L299[16:21:06] <Draconiator> https://i.imgur.com/msEKL0q.gifv - More close to that idea.

L300[16:21:16] <Draconiator> Closer even.

L301[16:24:42] <Rolf> drafting fun

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L313[17:17:21] <thelounge29> Is there anyway to get mirror symmetry x4 for rover wheels?

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L316[17:26:58] <kuzetsa> thelounge29: not sure what you mean x4

L317[17:28:34] <kuzetsa> do you want a mirror which cuts more than one axis?

L318[17:29:39] <kuzetsa> 3 dimensional (3 mirrors, one for X, Y, and Z axis) would mean rover wheels get placed 8 at a time in a cuboid / rectangular prism shape of some kind, I think

L319[17:29:46] <kuzetsa> where would the 4th dimension be for 4x mirrors O_O

L320[17:33:35] <thelounge29> hmm yeah

L321[17:33:41] *** thelounge29 is now known as senray

L322[17:34:02] <senray> I mean place 4 wheels on a rover facing the right direction and at the same vertical level

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L324[17:36:13] <Draconiator> some say we have as many as 11 dimensions. 4 we know of definitively (Length, Width, Height, Time)

L325[17:37:03] <senray> What's the best way to place four wheels on a rover?

L326[17:40:32] <UmbralRaptop> I'd lean towards angle and/or joint snaps.

L327[17:41:27] <senray> What do you mean?

L328[17:41:49] <senray> Mirror symmetry works, except I can only place two, and it's hard to line them up vertically by hand

L329[17:45:48] <UmbralRaptop> toggle angle snap by clicking on the circle/hexagon with a dot in it, or pressing C (if I recall correctly)

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L331[17:47:05] <senray> That doesn't really do it. I'll just eyeball it

L332[17:47:50] <senray> Because angle snapping still angles the wheels to each other in radial mode and only does 2 in mirror

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L360[20:19:34] <YorCommunistToGo> Hi

L361[20:19:35] <Mod9000> Hello, YorCommunistToGo

L362[20:19:44] <YorCommunistToGo> hello

L363[20:19:46] <Mod9000> Hello, YorCommunistToGo

L364[20:19:49] <YorCommunistToGo> hello

L365[20:19:50] <Mod9000> Hello, YorCommunistToGo

L366[20:19:55] <YorCommunistToGo> hello

L367[20:19:56] <Mod9000> Hello, YorCommunistToGo

L368[20:20:02] <YorCommunistToGo> hOlA

L369[20:20:09] <YorCommunistToGo> H3llo

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L371[20:20:15] <Azander> Someone please stop those bots

L372[20:20:22] <YorCommunistToGo> What bots

L373[20:20:41] <YorCommunistToGo> I have a question

L374[20:21:05] <YorCommunistToGo> Do kerbals poop? if so, where do they poop on the tiny command pod?

L375[20:21:14] <YorCommunistToGo> What if they are on an SSTO?

L376[20:21:26] <YorCommunistToGo> any1

L377[20:21:29] <Azander> depends on if you have the life support mod(s) installed

L378[20:21:33] <YorCommunistToGo> k

L379[20:21:45] <YorCommunistToGo> WHAT DOES THE JEB SAY

L380[20:21:51] <YorCommunistToGo> EKLLNGENIOEPBUDIVPFFNUODSNUEORFID IGUIDFJUNGI5OENURIPHOE 0T9UPOFHNGFIUOFHUITHR J

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L383[20:23:04] <damnson> damn f**king son

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L385[20:32:15] <kuzetsa> Hello, Mod9000 - are you a bot?

L386[20:32:38] <kuzetsa> or was I supposed to just say:

L387[20:32:39] <kuzetsa> hello

L388[20:32:39] <Mod9000> Hello, kuzetsa

L389[20:32:53] <kuzetsa> o_O okay then

L390[20:33:42] <ve2dmn> Mod9000: hello

L391[20:33:57] <ve2dmn> hello Mod9000

L392[20:33:57] <Mod9000> How are things?

L393[20:34:09] <ve2dmn> that's all it does

L394[20:35:01] <kuzetsa> seems far less obnoxious when not participating in any sort of feedback loop like during the incident ^

L395[20:35:19] <kuzetsa> ::shrug::

L396[20:35:41] <ve2dmn> it's like ELIZA version 0.0000001

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L400[20:53:34] <UmbralRaptop> Hrm. Missed a spammer.

L401[21:00:00] <TheKosmonaut> Test IRC, please ignore

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L413[21:35:29] <Draconiator> Good thing I have other ways of watching YouTube before my USB Sound Dongle thing gets here.

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