OCLogs: 2018-04-11.log

Stuff goes here

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L8[00:42:30] <tivec> so, something has managed to break my station..

L9[00:42:32] <tivec> https://i.imgur.com/fSPDb4O.png

L10[00:42:50] <tivec> i'm controling from the quiztech aero docking port, aiming at the one with the purple marker

L11[00:43:05] <tivec> according to DPAI (and if using MechJeb PAR-) I'm aligned

L12[00:43:09] <tivec> which is painfully obvious I am not

L13[00:43:33] <tivec> same goes for all my standard docking ports on the station

L14[00:43:49] <tivec> any help to sort this would be appreciated...

L15[00:44:02] <KrazyKrl> it looks like you're alligned to the wrong axis on the docking port.

L16[00:44:26] <tivec> yeah, no kidding. but how can the axis on the docking port change?

L17[00:44:26] <KrazyKrl> it's not a problem with your detection, it's working fine... the problem is with the part mod itself.

L18[00:44:36] <KrazyKrl> hinky part configs?

L19[00:44:37] <tivec> but.. it's the stock docking port on the station

L20[00:44:49] <tivec> if I hop out and switch to another craft with the stock docking port, it is the same

L21[00:44:55] <tivec> same offset, same weirdness

L22[00:45:37] <tivec> is there a way to visualize the docking port axises?

L23[00:47:08] <tivec> and I honestly can't see how suddenly all my standard docking ports would have their axises(axii?) switched about

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L25[00:48:34] <Draconiator> docking ports on the wrong way?

L26[00:48:45] <Draconiator> That was a head scratcher for me at first.

L27[00:48:46] <tivec> they definitely are not, but seems like it

L28[00:48:57] <tivec> it should be noted that I have docked with this station before

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L30[00:49:52] <tivec> on the same docking ports...

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L32[00:51:09] <Supercheese> there's a known bug with Stockalike Station Parts Redux that breaks docking ports

L33[00:51:13] <Supercheese> maybe that's yer problem

L34[00:52:10] <tivec> ah that could be it

L35[00:52:21] <tivec> it was updated yesterday

L36[00:52:24] <Supercheese> since SSPR tweaks the stock docking ports, something got haywire

L37[00:52:33] <Supercheese> yeah in the new update

L38[00:52:51] <tivec> ok, the only thing done for the docking port is to replace the mesh

L39[00:52:58] <tivec> i can remove that part from the config

L40[00:53:05] <tivec> and it should revert to the default one right?

L41[00:54:56] <Supercheese> perhaps, worth a shot

L42[00:55:07] <tivec> yeah, going to

L43[00:55:09] <Supercheese> main suspect is some coordinates getting flipped/typoed

L44[00:57:12] <tivec> yeah

L45[00:57:23] <tivec> man, i hope removing the patch reverts to the default

L46[00:57:33] <tivec> if not, i'll be mighty sad, this station has taken me *quite* some time to build

L47[00:57:44] <tivec> would suck to have to abandon it :(

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L49[01:09:27] <tivec> YES! it worked!

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L51[01:09:58] <tivec> thanks Supercheese for letting me know about the bug, I wouldn't have known to look at Stockalike Station Parts

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L55[01:22:03] <Supercheese> Yer welcome :)

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L69[02:26:56] <tivec> oh wow, the ksp wiki is broken :O

L70[02:26:59] <tivec> https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Asteroid

L71[02:27:12] <tivec> getting "Failed to parse (unknown error)" on the formulas

L72[02:29:52] <UmbralRaptop> Yeah, I emailed support… 2 weeks ago?

L73[02:30:01] <tivec> ouch

L74[02:30:40] <tivec> i'm totally new to capturing asteroids, and I'm going to make my first attempt at one passing in Kerbin orbit between Mun and Minmus, what kind of dv am I looking at for a capture?

L75[02:30:50] <tivec> and is there a way for me to calculate this?

L76[02:31:12] <Althego> you would need to know the mass of the asteroid in advance

L77[02:31:29] <tivec> well, I know the class - it's an A, so the wiki says up to 9.5 tonnes

L78[02:31:29] <Althego> i think you get only the type, which is a size category

L79[02:31:32] <tivec> so if we work on that

L80[02:31:40] <UmbralRaptop> for ΔV, asteroid mass is irrelevant.

L81[02:31:47] <Althego> no

L82[02:31:51] <Althego> unless you mine it

L83[02:31:52] <UmbralRaptop> propulsion, though

L84[02:32:11] <Althego> you have to move the asteroid so it is your payload

L85[02:33:05] <tivec> yeah, the grabber unit I have have some 2k ∆v with a 10t payload :D

L86[02:33:15] <Althego> that is nice

L87[02:33:22] <Althego> you can even try to aerocapture :)

L88[02:33:30] <UmbralRaptop> ^

L89[02:34:33] <UmbralRaptop> And even without, capture from a close pass is cheaper ΔV wise, than with a periapsis out at 25 Mm or the like.

L90[02:35:00] <tivec> ok, the periapsis is quite far out, but I was thinking about doing a slight burn to adjust that after capturing it

L91[02:35:13] <tivec> i'm capturing it like 50+ days before entering Kerbin SoI

L92[02:37:24] <tivec> but i'm guessing that'll be a near negligible ∆v cost from doing it far outside the SoI?

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L96[02:52:17] <UmbralRaptop> Yeah

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L99[03:08:19] <tivec> i also now feel kind of stupid... I just realized that my grabber has no RCS... well then, grabbing the asteroid will have to be done with care then

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L104[03:31:05] <Mat2ch> Oh, "Mythbusters Jr." with Adam Sandler. I'm wondering if this will be any good

L105[03:32:32] <Althego> adam and an adam cosplayer http://www.tested.com/comic-con/825653-silicon-valley-comic-con-2018/item/2018-svcc-19/

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L115[04:46:50] <Japa> Well that didn't work.

L116[04:47:34] <Japa> Tried to make a craft that launches, reaches the mun at a constant burn, and lands, all in one stage

L117[04:47:52] <Japa> ran out of fuel midway.

L118[04:50:10] <Japa> On the plus side, we're on an orbit that reaches moho

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L126[05:45:14] <Eddi|zuHause> constant burn sounds like a terrible idea

L127[05:51:49] <Japa> Good if you want gravity the whole way and want to get to the mun in 20 minutes

L128[05:52:00] <Japa> Bad if you want to conserve fuel.

L129[05:53:18] <Gasher[work]> well that also means that you would brake half the way to the place

L130[05:56:58] <Fluburtur> https://78.media.tumblr.com/03f34753c0f634dd0a47b5a106ae32a9/tumblr_ooivd0B6kt1sq4mr8o1_540.jpg

L131[06:02:27] <Fluburtur> https://78.media.tumblr.com/fbf1786f7f1e24d49cab1acc34fc37b7/tumblr_p6y183qLzb1w4eqqho1_540.png

L132[06:06:03] <TheKosmonaut> Brought a fifty-year-old car back to life today. It was glorious

L133[06:06:13] <Fluburtur> nice

L134[06:06:40] <TheKosmonaut> It's weird to see "Made in Michigan" on a car.

L135[06:06:52] <TheKosmonaut> A 69 Mercury Cougar

L136[06:07:06] <TheKosmonaut> I guess not quite fifty but close enough

L137[06:07:23] <taniwha> TheKosmonaut: my 6yo: http://taniwha.org/~bill/2018-04-11-200205.jpg

L138[06:08:04] <TheKosmonaut> taniwha: raising her right

L139[06:09:28] <taniwha> using FAR, of course :)

L140[06:10:11] <TheKosmonaut> Fluburtur: I have videos of the car in various stages, one piston wasn't firing properly so the car would wobble a lot. I noticed where the problem was, next video shows a smooth engine, then the next video shows an exploding radiator. Lol. A roller coaster of emotions.

L141[06:10:28] <TheKosmonaut> taniwha: is there any other way to play Ksp?

L142[06:10:45] <taniwha> not as far as I'm concerned

L143[06:11:12] <TheKosmonaut> taniwha: do you give her your go-to plane design or is she building stuff?

L144[06:11:28] <taniwha> gave her my current go-to

L145[06:11:42] <Fluburtur> kinda reminds me of the lawnmower of my grandpa

L146[06:11:45] <taniwha> it's fairly reliable. She /almost/ landed it, even :)

L147[06:11:58] <Fluburtur> he ordered a new motor with electric start and it wasn't working so I looked at it

L148[06:12:23] <Fluburtur> camshaft was not fitted correctly so it was opening the valves in the wrong order

L149[06:13:16] <TheKosmonaut> taniwha: today has been really gusty in the tokyo area, we are right under the Haneda approach path, I saw a number of smaller planes having some significant sideslip. Makes me wish there was a "random wind" option

L150[06:13:31] <TheKosmonaut> Would make rudder control even more important

L151[06:13:35] <taniwha> yeah

L152[06:14:57] <TheKosmonaut> Fluburtur: heh. That's one of those "well there's your problem" moments

L153[06:16:10] <Althego> girl playing ksp with a saitek x52?

L154[06:16:58] <taniwha> yeah

L155[06:21:42] <Fluburtur> I should get myself a stick

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L158[06:23:38] <Althego> got to the forest :)

L159[06:23:50] <Fluburtur> kek

L160[06:23:55] <Althego> run (to) forest run

L161[06:24:00] <Fluburtur> I could maybe 3d print one

L162[06:24:08] <Fluburtur> but then I would need to do the electronics and stuff

L163[06:25:59] <Mat2ch> Run to the hills!

L164[06:26:07] <Mat2ch> Oh, wait, different universe :D

L165[06:26:33] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: the electronis has been done for you already. You just need to solder them and maybe flash an arduino

L166[06:26:44] <Fluburtur> eh idk

L167[06:26:52] <Fluburtur> I would want pedals for flying planes too

L168[06:27:09] <Fluburtur> I basically want a full simpit but I don't have room for that

L169[06:27:30] <Mat2ch> The pedals should be made out of metal

L170[06:27:39] <Althego> yes, the twisting is not too comfortable for planes

L171[06:27:48] <Mat2ch> but making them isn't hard either, you just need some metal of the right sizes

L172[06:28:05] <Althego> also in ksp the switching of the joy axes for rockets and planes you need a mod

L173[06:28:10] <Mat2ch> also I'd like to get back into flying helicopters (simulated of course)

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L175[06:28:27] <Mat2ch> Althego: there are so many things missing in KSP :|

L176[06:28:45] <Mat2ch> btw: Is there a way in TAC Life support to just vent the CO2?

L177[06:28:46] <Althego> but ksp moon landings taught me flying helicopters :)

L178[06:28:55] <Mat2ch> They did? How?

L179[06:29:02] <Althego> because the same physics

L180[06:29:03] <Althego> mostly

L181[06:29:04] <taniwha> Mat2ch: TAC fuel balancer lets you dump

L182[06:29:18] <Mat2ch> taniwha: ah, then I need that mod, too.

L183[06:29:37] <Althego> of course this is from one simulator to the other

L184[06:30:14] <Mat2ch> Althego: not really. In a helicopter you have to counteract a pretty nasty yaw movement all the time

L185[06:30:25] <Althego> yes, and that is how it works

L186[06:30:36] <Althego> had to turn off the computer to make it work

L187[06:30:42] <Mat2ch> and when you're hovering there are all kinds of different things happening

L188[06:30:55] <Althego> when i found the cyclic trim switch in GA i could finally fly it

L189[06:31:03] <Althego> because the computer was always fioghting against me

L190[06:31:04] <Mat2ch> if you wanna try to fly a helicopter, install flightgear and try the Eurocopter. But bring pedals...

L191[06:31:21] <Mat2ch> Computer? No computer allowed! :P

L192[06:31:23] <Althego> that switchd off all the feedback, consequently the axis decoupling done by the computer

L193[06:31:37] <Althego> in contrast GS that doesnt have this stupidity

L194[06:31:39] <tivec> speaking of simulators, anyone here fly sims on a regular basis? p3d/xplane?

L195[06:31:44] <Althego> was relatively easy to handle

L196[06:33:16] <Althego> http://www.warpology.com/x/VIDEO0001.mp4

L197[06:33:21] <Mat2ch> ok, take a Eurocopter and do some hovering :D

L198[06:34:15] <Althego> (two GAs in networked mode)

L199[06:36:06] <Mat2ch> There's a simulator nearby which has a working Bell UH-1 model and I got to fly it

L200[06:36:16] <Mat2ch> Hovering is really hard work in it

L201[06:36:32] <Althego> this one used to run uh-1D too, but it was retired

L202[06:36:42] <Althego> ok, in GA you can hover easiy, there is a hover mode :)

L203[06:36:59] <Althego> cant land though

L204[06:37:11] <Althego> have to be at least 4 feet or something to work

L205[06:38:01] <Althego> luckily with the CH53 series you can just land like a plane, lot easier

L206[06:39:28] <Althego> how not to land a helicopter http://www.warpology.com/x/VIDEO0015.mp4

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L210[06:57:41] <Fluburtur> k bottleboat time

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L212[07:05:51] <Mat2ch> Althego: the last part is what you have to do all the time without an autopilot ;)

L213[07:06:51] <Althego> as i said with some ksp experience, and turning off the axis decoupling i was doing ok

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L215[07:10:09] <Mat2ch> you need to fly one without all those computers. :D

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L218[07:19:34] <TonyC> hi everyone

L219[07:20:47] <TonyC> I'm trying to make the patcher work to transition from 1.3.1 to 1.4.2, but when I select the folder ksp_win64, or ksp-win64-1.3.1, it says that my KSP folder is invalid. What am I doing wrong ?

L220[07:21:45] <GlassFragments> ...the patcher still exists?

L221[07:21:51] *** GlassFragments is now known as GlassYuri

L222[07:22:10] <TonyC> well, not the old patcher, the new "Upgrade patches"

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L224[07:23:00] <GlassYuri> congratulations to squad then for writing the same tool three times and messing it up each time

L225[07:23:58] <TonyC> oh well, guess its time to download 1.4.2 directly. However some other patches I used worked beforehand

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L229[07:32:30] <Mat2ch> it's funny how long RSS/RO takes to load. I have to wait around five minutes...

L230[07:32:54] <tivec> so, why am I showing a productivity that low for this? https://i.imgur.com/WP61sHv.jpg

L231[07:32:59] <Mat2ch> I really wonder if the loading process couldn't be done in parallel

L232[07:33:42] <Mat2ch> you have even more mods installed... how long does KSP take to load for you?!

L233[07:33:54] <tivec> Mat2ch, too long, about 10-15 minutes, sometimes more

L234[07:34:13] <tivec> it's currently using 17gb of ram too :D

L235[07:34:27] <tivec> taniwha, if you are around, am i totally misunderstanding what i need for building? i'm showing a productivity of -8.94e-09

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L237[07:52:16] <TheKosmonaut> GlassYuri: The patcher always exists, but, like the appendix, it is useless and often just hurts you

L238[07:53:09] <GlassYuri> lol

L239[07:54:00] <GlassYuri> TheKosmonaut, depending on how you define america, I was there recently

L240[07:54:30] <Mat2ch> ugh. Anyone else having problems after updateing KER? It doesn't display the dV window anymore and I when I click on the KER button nothing happens :|

L241[07:54:38] <Mat2ch> I can't design RSS stages without dV readouts

L242[07:55:06] <TheKosmonaut> Did you try hitting it?

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L245[07:57:06] <Mat2ch> with a bat?

L246[07:57:23] <GlassYuri> put it in rice to soak out the rocket fuel

L247[07:57:29] <taniwha> with a mechjeb

L248[07:58:02] <GlassYuri> try lifing it to orbit and letting it fall back on your desk in case something is loose and needs to be reseated

L249[07:58:20] <Mat2ch> I will take a monkey and combine it with a wrench and then see what I can squeeze out of TheKosmonaut. :D

L250[07:58:23] <GlassYuri> put it in a blast furnace to reheat the solder

L251[07:58:43] <TheKosmonaut> microwave your computer's hard disk

L252[07:58:49] <TheKosmonaut> This loosens up the data

L253[07:58:56] <Mat2ch> I have no microwave :(

L254[07:58:58] <TheKosmonaut> among other things

L255[07:59:10] <Mat2ch> I can't make microwave popcorn. My life is empty

L256[07:59:13] <TheKosmonaut> Mat2ch: do you possess an electromagnet?

L257[07:59:18] <Mat2ch> Neither

L258[07:59:22] <TheKosmonaut> Neodymium?

L259[07:59:36] <Mat2ch> Maybe in some speakers

L260[07:59:57] <GlassYuri> I don't understand people who don't impulse buy large amounts of neodymium

L261[08:00:16] * Mat2ch takes a look at his bank account

L262[08:00:18] <Mat2ch> oh, I do

L263[08:00:42] * TheKosmonaut looks at Mat2ch's bank account

L264[08:00:52] <TheKosmonaut> GlassYuri: You wouldnt believe how much this guy's spent on magnets

L265[08:01:56] <GlassYuri> TheKosmonaut, drop the clickbait

L266[08:02:12] * TheKosmonaut spills a bucket of clicks all over the floor

L267[08:02:51] <GlassYuri> are they still alive and flopping around trying to get back into the series of tubes?

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L270[08:08:06] <Mat2ch> TheKosmonaut: did you find something in there?

L271[08:10:16] <tivec> so nobody knows why I'm getting such a low vessel productivity for the EL orbital dock? I hyperedited up the construction workshop to orbit, have a crew of 4 and getting absolutely no productivity whatsoever. I don't understand this at all

L272[08:10:36] <Althego> you can try to summon the creator

L273[08:10:41] <tivec> i tried

L274[08:10:45] <Althego> hehe

L275[08:10:51] <tivec> it was either ignored or missed

L276[08:10:52] <Althego> maybe a few hours sooner tomorrow

L277[08:11:09] <TonyC> he was there literally 12 minutes ago lol

L278[08:11:11] <tivec> wellllll the creator did speak *after* i summoned

L279[08:11:15] <tivec> so yeah

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L281[08:11:49] <TonyC> TheKosmonaut, I think people sometimes fix their GPUs with ovens, if the problems are solder related

L282[08:12:47] <tivec> While i dislike repeatedly pinging people, I guess it's been half hour now... taniwha, any suggestions? Productivity is negativeish: https://i.imgur.com/GE1q3d3.png

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L284[08:13:43] <TonyC> wait, how come you aren't using rocket parts

L285[08:13:47] <TheKosmonaut> it's 10:13PM here in Japan, maybe he's gone to sleep

L286[08:13:57] <tivec> TonyC, USI/MKS

L287[08:14:09] <TonyC> oh, right

L288[08:14:31] <TheKosmonaut> TonyC: That was a suggestion at one point when the Xbox 360 was new and had the "RRoD"

L289[08:15:01] <TheKosmonaut> there was also a suggestion in an early Macintosh computer to lift the whole desktop about 15cm off the table and drop it

L290[08:15:45] <TonyC> well that's interesting

L291[08:16:10] <TheKosmonaut> Because apparently the heat from the computer would cause the ram to pop out or something like that

L292[08:16:15] <TheKosmonaut> I can't remember

L293[08:16:25] <TheKosmonaut> the Apple II, I think it was.

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L295[08:17:59] <GlassYuri> you shure it was fifteen freaking cm?

L296[08:18:06] <GlassYuri> that seems kinda high

L297[08:18:06] <RandomJeb> there was an old computer model that came with a rubber mallet

L298[08:18:30] <RandomJeb> the cards would slowly slide out of their slots and you just hit it with the mallet in the correct way and they'd get bumped back in

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L301[08:29:51] <TheKosmonaut> GlassYuri: It was that, or something like, angle the back of the computer 45 degrees up while keeping the front on the desk then drop

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L304[08:32:02] <ve2dmn> Percussive Maintenance ?

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L318[09:19:50] <TonyC> are spacedock downloads broken for anyone else here ?

L319[09:28:26] <Fluburtur> Mat2ch https://youtu.be/9zL8pRDxPck

L320[09:28:26] <kmath> YouTube - Is Fusion 360 Unable to Handle Large Assemblies? - Marble Machine X #31

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L325[09:47:46] <TheKosmonaut> TonyC: yeah it's dead

L326[09:48:06] <TheKosmonaut> Just look for whatever mod you want on git or curse or any other *reliable* site

L327[09:48:26] <TonyC> krud

L328[09:49:09] <TonyC> has it been dead for some time now or has it been so since a few hours ?

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L330[09:54:55] <TheKosmonaut> dunno, i almost never use that site now

L331[09:55:10] <TheKosmonaut> Well, I havent been downloading recently so I dunno

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L337[10:21:42] <ve2dmn> Computers are hard

L338[10:22:10] <RandomJeb> I think it has been dead for some time now

L339[10:22:12] <ve2dmn> When thing work, it's great... but when they break

L340[10:23:07] <RandomJeb> you just gotta swap out the offending hardware or software, easy

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L343[10:24:22] <TheKosmonaut> has_bugs=false

L344[10:24:43] <ve2dmn> set bug_free=true;

L345[10:25:01] <Althego> segmentation fault

L346[10:27:03] <ve2dmn> I mean... I broke the network on one of our server this monring and it took 2h to fix

L347[10:27:39] <ve2dmn> so I imagine if no one is watching spacedock full time that it might take quite some time to bring back the links :/

L348[10:27:56] <TheKosmonaut> you could try pinging V i t a s

L349[10:28:06] <TheKosmonaut> I think he's the spacedock man

L350[10:29:30] <RandomJeb> the links are down for maintenance

L351[10:30:16] <ve2dmn> "we apologize for the inconvenience"

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L353[10:30:59] <ve2dmn> (RIP Douglas Adam)

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L355[10:44:29] <ve2dmn> Is there a good list of which parts comes with 'making history' ?

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L357[10:44:56] <ve2dmn> I'm probably gonna start a new career and I'm wondering if I should get it now, or wait for a sale

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L361[10:55:29] <ve2dmn> APlayer: I have a kOS question...

L362[10:55:52] <APlayer> ve2dmn: I have a piece of bread

L363[10:55:54] <APlayer> :P

L364[10:56:02] <ve2dmn> I have a salad

L365[10:57:21] <ve2dmn> Any way to automatically take science readings?

L366[10:57:22] <Althego> i have a pen... i have an apple...

L367[10:57:48] <APlayer> ve2dmn: I think so, yes

L368[10:58:08] <APlayer> Have a look at the part's events and/or actions

L369[10:58:23] <ve2dmn> (beside action group of course)

L370[10:58:33] <APlayer> In code

L371[10:58:52] <APlayer> You can do in code what action groups do manually

L372[10:59:13] <ve2dmn> Althego: I tried to explain that song to something who doesn't speak english... it didn't go well

L373[10:59:31] <Althego> is there any special meaning in it?

L374[10:59:52] <Althego> something? were you trying to explain it to french canadian ai?

L375[10:59:53] <Althego> :)

L376[11:00:22] <ve2dmn> no... but the 'pine-apple' is a very 'english' thing

L377[11:00:39] <APlayer> The AI is weak... But it is training. Getting stronger... Stronger every day

L378[11:00:42] <Althego> in other places it is a variation of anans

L379[11:00:44] <Althego> ananas

L380[11:01:13] <APlayer> Ananas is German and Russian

L381[11:01:34] <Althego> here it is ananász, which is a variaton

L382[11:01:35] <ve2dmn> and spanish and french

L383[11:01:42] <APlayer> It is definitely not an apple

L384[11:02:12] <ve2dmn> Apple commes from the proto-indo-europeen for 'fruit'... as in generic fruit

L385[11:02:50] <APlayer> At least they don't call it a vegetable

L386[11:02:54] <Althego> hehe

L387[11:02:56] <ve2dmn> which explain the weird uses of apple in languages everywhere

L388[11:03:38] <ve2dmn> like Orange juice in.... I think Dutch... is Juice of apple of orangers

L389[11:03:56] <ve2dmn> And potatoes in french is 'earth apple'

L390[11:04:03] <Althego> hehe

L391[11:04:10] <Althego> now those are not fruits

L392[11:04:13] <APlayer> So much for vegetables

L393[11:04:18] <ve2dmn> :D

L394[11:04:29] <Althego> nobody eats the fruits of potatoes, not good for you

L395[11:04:34] <APlayer> But french is weird anyway

L396[11:04:52] <Althego> meanwhile kitkat released red chocolate, it is from a special cocoa that is red

L397[11:04:52] * APlayer glares at 4 * 20 + 10 + 7

L398[11:05:23] <Althego> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/kitkat-ruby-chocolate-bar-uk-launch-europe-release-nestle-a8297661.html

L399[11:05:33] <Althego> i think i want to try it

L400[11:05:35] <ve2dmn> APlayer: only in France. Belgium uses a different name for 70,80 and 90

L401[11:06:36] <ve2dmn> Dutch numbers are... even weirder

L402[11:07:00] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Anyway, I demand an explanation for why they do not outperform other people in mental maths, considering their daily training

L403[11:07:18] <Althego> european languages have this weird fascination with twelve, but they are using decimal numbers

L404[11:07:40] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: finally :)

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L406[11:07:56] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: I wonder how the videos will look in summer, when it gets hot there. :D

L407[11:07:57] <taniwha> 12 is divisible by 2, 3, and 4

L408[11:07:59] <ve2dmn> 12 divisible by 2,3,4,6

L409[11:08:11] <APlayer> I don't know of any speaking languages that natively use binary, octal or hexadecimal numbers

L410[11:08:12] <taniwha> ok, and 6

L411[11:08:15] <Fluburtur> it's already pretty warm here

L412[11:08:25] <Althego> taniwha: what are you doing here at this time

L413[11:08:34] <taniwha> being up too late

L414[11:08:35] <APlayer> Factoring 12

L415[11:08:44] <ve2dmn> 60 is divisiable by 2,3,4,5,6,10,12

L416[11:08:50] <iamfishhead> ve2dmn: The romans used a decimal system based on 12, IIRC

L417[11:08:58] <Althego> yes but i mean they count to twelve, why isnt it 10-1 10-2 as in sane languages :)

L418[11:08:59] <ve2dmn> which is why the babylonians had a facination with it

L419[11:09:23] <ve2dmn> decimal == 10. a 12-based is duodecimal

L420[11:09:28] <taniwha> really, just 2, 3, and 5

L421[11:09:34] <iamfishhead> I mean, if you're doing mostly mental math, and using it for currency, easy to divide makes a lot of sense

L422[11:09:43] <iamfishhead> pre-computers that is

L423[11:09:47] <ve2dmn> yup

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L425[11:10:08] <ve2dmn> now precision is more important then quick-to-estimate

L426[11:10:28] <taniwha> base 10 isn't any more precise than base 12, though

L427[11:10:43] <Fluburtur> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F70tClnEKQI

L428[11:10:43] <kmath> YouTube - Kyle Franklin Comedy Act

L429[11:10:48] <ve2dmn> no, but it's not the base computer use anyway

L430[11:11:04] <taniwha> yeah, and computers are horrible at math

L431[11:11:14] <taniwha> (they just do it quickly and consistently)

L432[11:11:42] <taniwha> 52 bits gets you only 17 digits

L433[11:11:56] <taniwha> (of uniquely identifiable numbers)

L434[11:12:00] <Althego> taniwha: tivec had some problem: "so nobody knows why I'm getting such a low vessel productivity for the EL orbital dock? I hyperedited up the construction workshop to orbit, have a crew of 4 and getting absolutely no productivity whatsoever. I don't understand this at all"

L435[11:12:08] <APlayer> Althego: Because twelve is twoteen in English

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L437[11:12:48] <ve2dmn> If I was dictator, I would make everyone use a random base

L438[11:12:55] <Althego> the music in the video is wrong. should have been the benny hill chase music

L439[11:13:00] <taniwha> Althego: module manager, engineers, not too stupid

L440[11:13:08] <Althego> hehe

L441[11:13:18] <taniwha> (check productivity in the workshop's PAW)

L442[11:13:33] <tivec> taniwha, https://i.imgur.com/GE1q3d3.png

L443[11:13:38] <ve2dmn> "Today, you shall all count in base 14. Tomorrow it will be base 3"

L444[11:13:41] <tivec> -7e-8

L445[11:13:56] <tivec> i mean, i wouldn't say they are *that* stupid

L446[11:14:02] <tivec> i think they're mid-way or so

L447[11:14:02] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: it's too warm, I think. And we had our first thunderstorms yesterday. Never had a thunderstorm in April

L448[11:14:04] <APlayer> ve2dmn: That's why you will never be elected as a dictator

L449[11:14:14] <Fluburtur> that dude is really dragging the wingtips on the ground

L450[11:14:19] <ve2dmn> A dictator laugh in the face of elections

L451[11:14:25] <Fluburtur> I hope it has like some pads to protect it

L452[11:14:34] <Althego> also the william tell overture reminds me of kodocha because of that amv

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L454[11:14:48] <tivec> taniwha, any idea at all? :(

L455[11:15:27] <tivec> i didn't have four engineers, just one iirc, but i mean they'd still contribute even if not engineers no?

L456[11:15:51] <taniwha> tivec: looking

L457[11:16:31] <taniwha> tivec: non-engineers must have a 5-star engineer to have a positive contribution

L458[11:16:43] <ve2dmn> APlayer: seriously, though, I would probably make everyone learn different bases, but force the use of a consistant system

L459[11:16:53] <taniwha> you got Bill Kerman in there?

L460[11:16:59] <taniwha> tivec: ^

L461[11:17:06] <ve2dmn> because even just the long-vs-short-form of billions drives me nuts

L462[11:17:07] <tivec> yeah, iirc, but it's career so he isn't 5-star

L463[11:17:10] <APlayer> That's imperial vs. metric systems, in a nutshell

L464[11:17:13] <Althego> base 2 base a huge positive side: the multiplication table is extremely small :)

L465[11:17:23] <Althego> in fact you dont even need to memorize it

L466[11:17:24] <tivec> i'm booting up KSP to check for real taniwha, it's just taking a while lol

L467[11:17:27] <taniwha> tivec: hmm, with 2 stars, he should have 0.5 productivity

L468[11:17:37] <tivec> and the others should be contributing 0?

L469[11:17:38] <taniwha> (in the workshop)

L470[11:17:42] <taniwha> yeah, 0

L471[11:18:01] <taniwha> the -7e-8 is how I knew Bill was in there :)

L472[11:18:14] <tivec> wha?

L473[11:18:32] <taniwha> he /should/ get exactly 0, but floating point numbers...

L474[11:18:36] <tivec> ah hahaha

L475[11:18:38] <Althego> hehe

L476[11:18:50] <taniwha> (and him getting 0 was an accident)

L477[11:18:54] <Althego> floating point number like things

L478[11:18:56] <tivec> i'm so happy Unity implemented Vector2Int and Vector3Int

L479[11:19:09] <tivec> totally unrelated to this, ofc

L480[11:19:29] <tivec> ok, still loading :D I started KSP when you said "non-engineers must have a 5-star engineer..."

L481[11:19:38] <tivec> 28k patches applied...

L482[11:19:43] <taniwha> good grief

L483[11:19:48] <tivec> 12gb memory used so far

L484[11:20:10] <Technicalfool> Scheduled forum update in ~10 minutes. Prepare for downtime.

L485[11:20:16] <taniwha> tivec: RO?

L486[11:20:27] * ve2dmn brace for downtime

L487[11:20:29] <taniwha> hmm, not with that curvature

L488[11:20:31] <tivec> taniwha, nah, just a lot of mods. not including Squad's files, my GameData is 2.55gb

L489[11:20:51] <tivec> Janitor's closet is my friend :D

L490[11:20:57] <tivec> and procedural parts...

L491[11:21:01] <taniwha> I bet

L492[11:21:29] <tivec> but i'm glad to say it's surprisingly stable for this amount of mods

L493[11:21:31] <taniwha> tivec: btw, how do you feel about the converter (esp smelter) changes?

L494[11:21:59] <tivec> I haven't taken a look into it, to be honest, was just starting on building EL stuff

L495[11:22:09] <tivec> what's new?

L496[11:22:19] ⇨ Joins: BadRocketsCO (BadRocketsCO!~badrocket@58-36-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee)

L497[11:22:28] <taniwha> instead of EC, LFO is used

L498[11:22:34] <tivec> hmm

L499[11:22:51] <tivec> well, i'm guessing it's easy enough to produce LFO

L500[11:22:57] <taniwha> for every ~1500g of MetalOre, =850g of LFO

L501[11:23:06] <taniwha> that's my hope

L502[11:23:13] <tivec> that feels kind of expensive though

L503[11:23:15] <taniwha> even I haven't been able to play test it yet

L504[11:23:22] <tivec> but i haven't play tested that, so i'll have tolook

L505[11:23:40] <taniwha> that's actually 100%, which you can't get. 40% is what's likely

L506[11:24:17] <taniwha> (I expected about 53%, but resource transfer cooling the smelter caught me by surprise)

L507[11:24:17] <tivec> but in this particular play through i am running USI, so the rocket part chain is not really used - might have to try in a clean save

L508[11:24:50] <tivec> and KSP has loaded to main menu!

L509[11:24:53] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: now, what do we learn? F360 is not meant for large assemblies

L510[11:25:04] <taniwha> Metal->RocketParts is still Metal+EC, but at a more realistic rate

L511[11:25:06] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Found the kOS thing I mentioned yet?

L512[11:25:15] <Fluburtur> well his project is pretty large

L513[11:25:24] <ve2dmn> APlayer: no. I can't look while sitting at work

L514[11:25:25] <taniwha> (used plausible machine data:)

L515[11:25:34] <Fluburtur> but fusion is meant for profesionnals too so idk

L516[11:25:34] *** N70|zzz is now known as N70

L517[11:25:38] <APlayer> Ah, sorry then

L518[11:25:38] <tivec> taniwha, ok, let me hire some engineers so i am sure i have a full staff

L519[11:25:45] <Fluburtur> it isn't a finished software yet either, updates all the time

L520[11:25:49] <APlayer> Well, message me if there is anything

L521[11:25:51] <tivec> was going to staff up this once launched anyhow, might as well hire them now :D

L522[11:25:56] <Althego> no software is ever finished

L523[11:26:00] <Althego> at best abandoned

L524[11:26:23] <taniwha> tivec: oh, btw, I've been pondering ways to improve productivity in interesting ways

L525[11:26:37] <tivec> level 0 engineers should work right?

L526[11:26:50] <taniwha> in that workshop, yes

L527[11:26:53] <tivec> low stupidity, courage doesn't matter?

L528[11:27:11] <taniwha> yeah, if stupidity < 0.5, courage isn't too important

L529[11:27:22] <tivec> yeah, going to put stupidity to 10 on the bulk hire

L530[11:27:38] <tivec> so 0.1

L531[11:27:40] <taniwha> ah, that hiring mod

L532[11:27:44] <tivec> yeah

L533[11:28:00] <tivec> bam. welcome burtop, jenbo, malford and guslock to the team

L534[11:28:22] <tivec> let me load the rig. just to be 100% certain here, do I need *anything* but the workshop and the dock to build?

L535[11:28:38] <taniwha> btw, normal kerbals: low stupidity, low courage. badass kerbals: low stupidity, high courage

L536[11:28:39] <tivec> obviously power, but i have that

L537[11:28:59] <taniwha> to /build/, just the workshop and dock, not even power

L538[11:29:18] <taniwha> (but you do need control of the vessel, so a command pod of some sort)

L539[11:29:34] <taniwha> er... or do you?

L540[11:29:39] <tivec> https://i.imgur.com/t9WtNad.jpg

L541[11:30:06] <tivec> loading the scene (got KCT, so it's going to be KRASH simulated)

L542[11:30:07] <taniwha> there's a mod to make use of the other 4 seats in the MLP

L543[11:30:20] <tivec> I should be able to build on the launchpad too right?

L544[11:30:34] <taniwha> you can

L545[11:30:41] <tivec> ok, productivity of 17.2

L546[11:30:44] <tivec> that's good news

L547[11:30:54] <taniwha> only the survey station cares where it is (needs to be landed)

L548[11:31:19] <tivec> holy shoot they build fast

L549[11:31:38] <taniwha> at 17.2, yeah

L550[11:31:48] <tivec> is there a way to adjust this to match up better with KCT times?

L551[11:31:51] <taniwha> that's 3.6t/h

L552[11:31:56] <tivec> http://i.tivec.org/2018-04-11_18-28-35.mp4

L553[11:32:22] <taniwha> they're slapping together IKEA kits, not making the kits :)

L554[11:32:29] <tivec> true

L555[11:32:31] <tivec> lol

L556[11:32:49] <tivec> alright, i've got all i need to build an orbital dock then

L557[11:32:50] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: sounds like somebody screwed up the internal data structure somewhere and is not in the company anymore...

L558[11:33:16] <taniwha> as for slowing it down: turn down the workshop's productivity factor (currently 5)

L559[11:33:36] <tivec> I'm fine with it being IKEA kits

L560[11:33:41] <taniwha> 1 is required for the workshop to be "fully equipped" unless you set that flag (check the manual)

L561[11:34:13] <taniwha> my thinking was 5 hours/ton for one good kerbal seemed reasonable

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L563[11:34:24] <taniwha> (PF = 1)

L564[11:34:34] <tivec> yeah, that works for me :)

L565[11:34:44] <taniwha> the workshop is meant to have some pretty sophisticated equipment to speed things up

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L567[11:35:05] ⇦ Quits: BadRocketsCO (BadRocketsCO!~badrocket@58-36-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee) (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)

L568[11:35:19] <tivec> thanks for clearing things up for me :) time to go build rockets :D

L569[11:35:24] <tivec> that workshop is big and heavy :O

L570[11:35:44] <tivec> and expensive. very very expensive

L571[11:35:46] <taniwha> yeah, it's meant to have several lathes in there (10 by conversion rate)

L572[11:35:57] <N70> did the ksp forum just break for anyone else

L573[11:36:02] <taniwha> (lathes/milling machines)

L574[11:36:08] <tivec> maintenance N70

L575[11:36:18] ⇨ Joins: Deddly (Deddly!~MrNiceGuy@h87-96-164-204.cust.se.alltele.net)

L576[11:36:37] <taniwha> tivec: anyway, converter rates are much easier to tune now, too

L577[11:37:21] <taniwha> (and taking the smelter back to EC instead of LFO should be easy enough)

L578[11:37:35] <tivec> is that something you can do by configuration file?

L579[11:37:41] <taniwha> yes

L580[11:37:42] <tivec> because I can see a lot of people disliking that

L581[11:38:14] <tivec> is the wiki also having some maintenance to fix the formula problem? :D

L582[11:38:48] <taniwha> the only things hardcoded in EL are the kerbalHours cost (haven't come up with a good way to specify it yet), and kerbal trait->productivity conversion

L583[11:39:02] <tivec> gotcha

L584[11:39:38] <tivec> hrm.... my first station is quite aptly called "Proto Station". What should I call my first space dock?

L585[11:39:45] <N70> SpaceDock

L586[11:39:50] <taniwha> heck, workshops even support unmanned productivity now

L587[11:39:50] <tivec> that's boring

L588[11:39:51] <tivec> :D

L589[11:40:05] <tivec> taniwha, unmanned productivity? I can be OK with that, if it is LOW

L590[11:40:25] ⇦ Quits: Kabouik (Kabouik!~kabouik@2a01:e35:2fd3:5030:ebd:59c2:cdd:e2f8) (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)

L591[11:40:31] <taniwha> EL leaves it at 0

L592[11:40:40] <taniwha> (you'd have to set it yourself in the .cfg)

L593[11:40:56] <taniwha> it does NOT get multiplied by productivity factor, that's for kerbals only :)

L594[11:41:10] <tivec> ok, well, not going to touch that myself, i like having staffed stations when building stuff

L595[11:41:21] <taniwha> as do I

L596[11:41:30] <tivec> makes station building a bit more interesting

L597[11:41:42] <taniwha> I'm a "people in space" type person

L598[11:41:44] <tivec> since i will then need life support, habitation, resupply and crew rotation..

L599[11:41:51] <taniwha> CLS?

L600[11:41:54] <tivec> yeah

L601[11:42:02] <taniwha> that makes design... interesting

L602[11:42:09] <tivec> nah

L603[11:42:12] <tivec> let me load up Proto station

L604[11:42:17] <taniwha> (I've played with it a couple of times. rather like it)

L605[11:42:28] <taniwha> though I do find having to open hatches a bit annoying

L606[11:42:31] <tivec> 20-ish days to crew rotation there

L607[11:42:49] <tivec> oh, I had some issues with CLS and Ship Manifest, so I loosened the requirements there

L608[11:43:03] <tivec> people couldn't move between vessels even if connected by opened hatches

L609[11:43:23] <taniwha> probably had an impassible part in the way

L610[11:43:30] <taniwha> I've had that a few times :/

L611[11:43:51] <taniwha> (I often went and made the part passable)

L612[11:44:00] <tivec> yeah, no, it wasn't that

L613[11:44:02] <tivec> https://i.imgur.com/IA7JwTM.png

L614[11:44:04] <taniwha> especially if it was just structural

L615[11:44:42] <tivec> the part my mouse is at here was the one i couldn't go to

L616[11:44:49] <tivec> if the upload finishes...

L617[11:45:17] <tivec> https://i.imgur.com/Msn3T1s.png

L618[11:45:35] <tivec> there are only two parts in between the docking port and that part

L619[11:45:45] <tivec> the docking port of the station and the crew tube

L620[11:45:48] <tivec> both which is passable

L621[11:45:54] <tivec> but it refused

L622[11:46:35] <taniwha> hmm

L623[11:46:48] <taniwha> one thought is misconfigured part

L624[11:47:02] <taniwha> another is the fun I had with PorkJet's inflatible habitats

L625[11:47:15] <taniwha> (particularly the one with 3 docking ports)

L626[11:47:21] <tivec> i spent an hour or three trying to figure out what was misconfigured

L627[11:47:29] <taniwha> getting CLS to work with that took a few hours of hacking CLS code

L628[11:47:44] <taniwha> (haven't sent a PR yet)

L629[11:48:26] <tivec> well, i've reinstated the option in SM to use CLS

L630[11:48:31] <tivec> we'll see if this works lol

L631[11:49:16] <tivec> but now i think it's time to build an orbital dock... great way to deploy small satellites without having to worry about the launch costs :D

L632[11:51:30] <taniwha> you might like the micro-pad

L633[11:51:51] <taniwha> (unless you prefer always docking module)

L634[11:52:14] <tivec> micro pad? haven't seen that

L635[11:52:37] <taniwha> EL 6, right?

L636[11:52:42] <tivec> yeah

L637[11:52:47] <tivec> but ya know, thousands of parts :D

L638[11:52:48] <taniwha> KS-MP

L639[11:53:05] <tivec> KIS item? interesting

L640[11:53:21] <taniwha> yeah, a kerbal can carry one on its back

L641[11:54:01] <taniwha> requires a free attach node on the root part of the build

L642[11:54:15] <tivec> i usually set the bottom part as root on my vessels

L643[11:54:16] <taniwha> (checks top, then bottom, then any others in the order found)

L644[11:54:22] <tivec> (especially for assemblies)

L645[11:55:51] <taniwha> for top and bottom nodes, the red arrow on the pad is the root part's +X axis

L646[11:56:15] <taniwha> for the top node, blue is +Z

L647[11:56:35] <taniwha> bottom: yellow is +Z

L648[11:56:51] <taniwha> (+Z is the window on the mk1 pod)

L649[11:58:14] <ve2dmn> does anyone know where this is from? https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.28826980.5413/flat,800x800,070,f.u1.jpg

L650[12:01:31] <ve2dmn> because it seems everyone printed it on t-shirts they are trying to sell

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L653[12:21:25] <schnobs> The best thing I can say about CLS is that it's well-meant.

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L656[12:22:38] <schnobs> Eat this, CLS: http://ksp.schnobs.de/stuff/BigG_mars.jpg

L657[12:23:04] <Althego> hehe

L658[12:23:47] <schnobs> obviously inspired by this: https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2012/10/mars-excursion-module.jpg

L659[12:23:58] <schnobs> But I found no way to make it CLS-conformal.

L660[12:28:54] <Mat2ch> That's huge

L661[12:29:09] <Althego> tremendous, believe me :9ö

L662[12:35:38] <ve2dmn> CLS?

L663[12:35:45] ⇨ Joins: Deddly (Deddly!~MrNiceGuy@h87-96-164-204.cust.se.alltele.net)

L664[12:36:44] <APlayer> Connected Living Space

L665[12:36:53] <tivec> https://i.imgur.com/EnV2l6U.jpg

L666[12:37:37] <tivec> and hidden behind the solars: https://i.imgur.com/Qu3Rss9.jpg

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L669[12:42:06] <ve2dmn> the best mars habitat that I saw was 3d printed ice

L670[12:43:05] <ve2dmn> http://payload409.cargocollective.com/1/12/384722/10487141/Mars-Ice-House_section_lr_1000.jpg

L671[12:43:23] <ve2dmn> The ice having the advantage of letting the light shine trough

L672[12:46:12] ⇨ Joins: Roy_Mustang (Roy_Mustang!A_D@vps.awesome-dragon.science)

L673[12:48:50] <ve2dmn> Considering there are a few ice hotels already, it's not actually THAT far-fetched... only the 3d printer (and the water on mars) remain the biggest question

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L676[12:55:20] ⇦ Quits: fhmiv (fhmiv!~fhmiv@17.236.10.188) (Client Quit)

L677[13:01:10] ⇨ Joins: Guest05949 (Guest05949!webchat@177.8.210.186.lkmais.com.br)

L678[13:03:00] <Guest05949> Hi, can you help me? I'm having trouble knowing what the name of the delopators they changed. I know but I do not know the name and it's like in my ksp. Please respond.

L679[13:03:36] <ve2dmn> The what?

L680[13:04:18] <Althego> hehe, i wonder what a delopator is

L681[13:04:41] ⇨ Joins: Guest97488 (Guest97488!webchat@177.8.210.186.lkmais.com.br)

L682[13:05:02] <Althego> i doubt anybody knows what a delopator is :)

L683[13:05:30] <ve2dmn> Can you provide a screenshot or explanation of what you are looking for?

L684[13:08:01] ⇨ Joins: fhmiv (fhmiv!~fhmiv@17.236.10.188)

L685[13:08:10] <APlayer> No

L686[13:08:14] <APlayer> Because they left

L687[13:08:28] <ve2dmn> ... and re-joined 30sec later :P

L688[13:08:44] <Althego> cant be sure it is the same person

L689[13:08:50] <ve2dmn> true

L690[13:09:24] <Althego> maybe the decouplers?

L691[13:09:37] <Althego> https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/1.4

L692[13:10:19] <APlayer> Guest97488 ping

L693[13:10:29] <Althego> when do we get the event horizon picture?

L694[13:11:31] <N70> is spacedock dying

L695[13:11:33] <N70> oh no

L696[13:12:18] ⇦ Quits: Guest97488 (Guest97488!webchat@177.8.210.186.lkmais.com.br) (Quit: webchat.esper.net)

L697[13:12:39] * ve2dmn gets flashback from his tech support days

L698[13:12:44] <Althego> hehe

L699[13:13:00] <Althego> have you tried turning it off and on again?

L700[13:13:38] <ve2dmn> nah... the biggest hurdle of having clients around the world was the language+cultural barrier

L701[13:14:58] ⇨ Joins: Gasher (Gasher!~Gasher@broadband-46-188-123-177.2com.net)

L702[13:16:03] <ve2dmn> trying to decipher what the google-translated text was suppose to mean was.... interesting

L703[13:17:18] <ve2dmn> (The above being an example of that)

L704[13:17:48] <Althego> have you increased your telepathic powers?

L705[13:18:14] <APlayer> ve2dmn: You don't get it

L706[13:18:22] <APlayer> That's part of the fun and mental stimulation

L707[13:18:23] ⇨ Joins: tawny (tawny!~tawny@pool-72-66-34-59.washdc.east.verizon.net)

L708[13:19:11] <ve2dmn> more like telepathetic powers

L709[13:19:16] <Althego> lol

L710[13:20:22] <ve2dmn> Although my phone signature now says 'Sent from my telepathic powers'

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L713[13:23:27] <Althego> not a neww record

L714[13:23:37] <Althego> 8 seconds

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L716[13:24:38] * APlayer puts a new dot in his scatterplot

L717[13:24:51] <Althego> what is on the other axis?

L718[13:25:27] <APlayer> The number of recent joins/leaves

L719[13:27:59] <ve2dmn> APlayer: wanna bet at the number of random guests next month?

L720[13:28:33] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Enough for my needs

L721[13:28:33] <Althego> i thought one axis was the time spent in seconds

L722[13:28:58] <Althego> but i dont see how this relates to the number of such events

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L724[13:29:36] <Althego> you have a need for random few second joiners?

L725[13:31:41] <APlayer> Althego: Don't you know why they leave so soon?

L726[13:32:01] * APlayer looks innocently

L727[13:33:37] <ve2dmn> APlayer: i was, of course, alluding to this fact: https://www.humblebundle.com/monthly/

L728[13:33:38] <Althego> no

L729[13:34:34] <SnoopJeDi> \o/

L730[13:35:09] <Fluburtur> I've been making a lost of parts for the bottleboat since some peoples eems interested in getting some and it's under 100€ so that's good

L731[13:36:23] <Althego> have multiple bottleboats and have a fight with them: battle of bottleboats

L732[13:36:52] <Fluburtur> yeah that's planned

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L734[13:43:54] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/267065159598604300/433698704621436929/pub_batteau.jpg

L735[13:44:20] <Althego> hehe carte dor

L736[13:45:23] <ve2dmn> Cheese?

L737[13:45:49] <Althego> icecream

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L739[13:47:27] <APlayer> Bottled air

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L742[13:49:36] <Fluburtur> I forgot to add like 20% so I can still earn something from this

L743[13:49:49] <Fluburtur> eh guess I will be generous because im too lazy to edit the thing

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L747[13:53:25] <Althego> hehe

L748[13:54:04] <Althego> https://i.imgur.com/mV9bFz7.gif

L749[13:54:04] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/mV9bFz7.gifv

L750[13:54:15] <Althego> you can replace it with ksp too

L751[13:58:12] <Fluburtur> the price is 101.5€ now

L752[13:58:20] <Fluburtur> and I get like 7€ for myself in there

L753[13:58:35] <Fluburtur> so maybe enough to pay for the glue and solder used to build the boats

L754[13:58:42] <APlayer> Fluburtur: Make it 99.99€

L755[13:59:00] <Fluburtur> but I need to calculate again then

L756[13:59:00] <Althego> or 109.9

L757[13:59:06] <APlayer> Ninja'd

L758[13:59:13] <Althego> or even 111.99

L759[13:59:18] <APlayer> 111.11

L760[13:59:21] <Althego> hehe

L761[13:59:30] <Althego> 111.00 :)

L762[13:59:41] <APlayer> Though, you could also do 98.76

L763[14:00:06] <Fluburtur> but the price will change if I use another radio

L764[14:00:15] <Fluburtur> eh guess I will remove the other one then

L765[14:00:18] <Althego> and a fine print

L766[14:00:25] <Althego> ymmv

L767[14:00:33] <APlayer> "Delivery not guaranteed"

L768[14:00:37] <Althego> hehe

L769[14:00:48] <Althego> delivery guaranteed next to waterways :)

L770[14:00:55] <APlayer> "Product might get lost in the infinite manifold of my basement"

L771[14:01:01] <Althego> hehe

L772[14:01:23] <Fluburtur> what if I make it exactly 100

L773[14:01:43] <Althego> yes down with the 99 stupidity

L774[14:02:00] <Fluburtur> well I can make it 99 if I remove 2 somewhere

L775[14:02:04] <Fluburtur> well 99.5 then

L776[14:02:08] <APlayer> But 9 is the biggest digit

L777[14:02:16] <Althego> no, F :)

L778[14:02:21] <APlayer> You maximize profit and minimize digits

L779[14:02:23] <APlayer> Alright

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L781[14:02:37] <Fluburtur> k 99.5 then

L782[14:02:38] <ve2dmn> 111.11

L783[14:02:50] <APlayer> Make it cost 0x64 €

L784[14:02:55] <Althego> hehe

L785[14:03:20] <ve2dmn> 100Pi/3 €

L786[14:03:34] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/267065159598604300/433703577525944330/pub_bateau_2.jpg

L787[14:03:37] <Althego> some things use semicircles as units

L788[14:03:38] <APlayer> 1.1111e2

L789[14:03:50] <Althego> it is good because you can easily convert to radians and degrees

L790[14:03:57] <Fluburtur> my friend will post that on the fb group of the club and it says to cantact me if interested anyways

L791[14:04:21] <APlayer> Fluburtur: Wait

L792[14:04:35] <APlayer> If you really want to sell these things, I advise some photoshop work

L793[14:05:01] <Fluburtur> you know most peoples that might buy one already got to try it

L794[14:05:07] <Fluburtur> or at least see it by themselves

L795[14:05:21] <APlayer> I mean photoshop work on the image

L796[14:05:29] <APlayer> Because it does not look attractive, TBH

L797[14:05:36] <ve2dmn> APlayer: what? add cats and lser-eyes?

L798[14:05:56] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Rainbows, stars and pink glitter

L799[14:06:01] <Fluburtur> my friend can link the video in the same post

L800[14:06:24] <APlayer> Fluburtur: May I have the plain image and 20 minutes?

L801[14:06:37] <Fluburtur> yeah

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L803[14:07:17] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/267065159598604300/433704559840460801/DSC_8574.JPG

L804[14:07:24] <Fluburtur> I have others but I think this one is the best

L805[14:07:34] <Fluburtur> it shows everything

L806[14:07:34] <APlayer> Sure

L807[14:07:45] <APlayer> I shall at least make the water a bit blue :P

L808[14:07:52] <Fluburtur> heh

L809[14:07:56] <APlayer> More seriously, does it have a name?

L810[14:08:05] <Fluburtur> well I just call it the bottleboat

L811[14:08:09] <ve2dmn> So it's a bottle-based Katamaran

L812[14:08:17] <APlayer> Kerbalmaran

L813[14:08:18] <Fluburtur> peoples call it whatever they want, usually it's just "the boat"

L814[14:08:24] <Althego> hehe

L815[14:08:28] <Althego> yes, kerbal boat

L816[14:08:47] <Fluburtur> yeah

L817[14:08:58] <APlayer> Well, if The Bottleboat is okay for French people (they tend to be a bit patriotic about their language, as I know them)

L818[14:09:02] <Althego> if water is level and does not curve, explain the tides :)

L819[14:09:28] <APlayer> Althego: That's Loch Ness breathing

L820[14:09:42] <Fluburtur> idk

L821[14:09:52] <Fluburtur> the french for that is bateau-bouteille

L822[14:10:01] <APlayer> Alright

L823[14:10:04] <APlayer> Will use that

L824[14:10:21] <Fluburtur> also it uses old bottles so peoples like that because I reuse old stuff and crap like that

L825[14:10:34] <ve2dmn> it's clearly a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catamaran

L826[14:11:06] <Fluburtur> btw peoples will need to supply their own bottles and ice cream containers and maybe wood

L827[14:11:16] <Althego> you both speak french so you can come up with something :)

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L829[14:13:20] <Fluburtur> I need to measure the lenght of wood parts and I need to design a new motor mount but anyways I have time

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L831[14:16:18] <TonyC> hey Fluburtur

L832[14:16:27] <TonyC> how's life

L833[14:16:33] <Fluburtur> good

L834[14:16:35] <Fluburtur> you?

L835[14:16:59] <TonyC> pretty good :)

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L839[14:27:25] <APlayer> Fluburtur: https://i.imgur.com/1FEkt6d.jpg

L840[14:27:43] <Fluburtur> eh pretty nice

L841[14:27:58] <ve2dmn> need more cowbell

L842[14:28:08] <Fluburtur> yeah

L843[14:29:52] <APlayer> Should make the Total bold, but I guess it's too late

L844[14:30:02] <APlayer> Unless you want me to, because I still have it open

L845[14:30:09] <Fluburtur> eh I have plenty of time

L846[14:30:15] <Fluburtur> my friend will post that this weekend

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L849[14:31:45] <Fluburtur> I should probably paint my boat and put a tiny flag on it

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L851[14:31:47] <Althego> the charger is one of the most expensive part

L852[14:31:53] <Fluburtur> yeah

L853[14:31:54] <Althego> cant you just run it on usb or something?

L854[14:32:14] <Fluburtur> charger and radio are the most expensive but it's long term invesment

L855[14:32:36] <Fluburtur> I was considering making it work with custom li-ion packs but would still need a charger and it would be a bit more

L856[14:32:49] <Fluburtur> it needs like 4 amps to run and usb can't supply that

L857[14:32:56] <APlayer> There we go: https://i.imgur.com/9LWgV2J.jpg

L858[14:33:09] <Fluburtur> nice thanks

L859[14:35:52] <Fluburtur> I will have to teach peoples about how to use lipo batteries correctly but since it will take sometimes to assemble the boats I will do that then

L860[14:36:36] <APlayer> If you see no possible adjustments, I am closing the file

L861[14:36:53] <Althego> setting your clients on fire is a huge negative ad :)

L862[14:37:09] <Fluburtur> APlayer should be fine

L863[14:37:16] <APlayer> Alright.

L864[14:37:26] <Fluburtur> Althego yeah but I was considering shooting firewoeks from the boats

L865[14:38:21] <APlayer> Althego: Funnily enough, I was just today wondering where I can safely first time launch my homemade quad. An option is the school's sports hall where I can put some mats on the floor and there is room to run, just in case

L866[14:39:34] <APlayer> I'd probably need to ask for the principal's approval before doing it, and I was wondering if I should mention that the worst case scenario is the quad launching downwards at 4G of acceleration from a height of ten or so meters, and slamming into the floor medium-sized LiPo battery-first

L867[14:40:02] <Fluburtur> well I have never slammed a lipo hard enough to damage it

L868[14:40:25] <APlayer> 4G from ten meters up is hard enough, I'd wager to say

L869[14:40:34] <Fluburtur> point in case https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdoPPBiJqVM

L870[14:40:34] <kmath> YouTube - lipo not exploding

L871[14:40:55] <Althego> https://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images/msss/02017/mcam/2017ML0106410040800175E01_DXXX.jpg

L872[14:41:34] <Althego> hehe it did not explode

L873[14:41:45] <Fluburtur> probably because it wasn't charged

L874[14:41:52] <Althego> good reason

L875[14:41:55] <Fluburtur> I should overcharge a lipo this makes them explode really hard usually

L876[14:41:59] <Althego> try it charged next time

L877[14:42:04] <Althego> we want to see the flames

L878[14:42:24] <Fluburtur> yeah

L879[14:42:30] <Fluburtur> I will ruin the grass

L880[14:42:39] <Fluburtur> or I could put one above a rocket engine

L881[14:42:56] <Althego> yes, that is it, combine them

L882[14:43:01] <Althego> rocket and battery fire

L883[14:43:03] <APlayer> Fluburtur: Quick calculation suggests it would hit the floor at 28 m/s

L884[14:43:25] <Fluburtur> did you account for drag and the time it takes to accelerate?

L885[14:43:37] <APlayer> This is 20 Joules of kinetic energy for only the battery of 80 Joules for the whole quad

L886[14:43:48] <APlayer> I did not account for drag, but I did account for the acceleration

L887[14:43:57] <APlayer> 3G of own thrust + 1G earth gravity

L888[14:44:08] <Fluburtur> but you motors can't reverse?

L889[14:44:15] <Fluburtur> well you can flip it upside down sure

L890[14:44:21] <APlayer> I assume the worst case scenario

L891[14:44:36] <APlayer> Which is that the quad slams down at 4G from the highest possible altitude

L892[14:44:54] <Fluburtur> like that? https://i.imgur.com/3xxYAMm.gifv

L893[14:44:54] <APlayer> Which is, admittedly and thankfully, rather unrealistic

L894[14:45:15] <APlayer> Ouch

L895[14:45:19] <APlayer> Well, yes, like that

L896[14:45:22] <Fluburtur> had no damage at all

L897[14:45:25] <Fluburtur> I flew it efter

L898[14:45:39] <Fluburtur> I did bend the two front props but it's polycarbonate props so I just bent them back

L899[14:46:12] <APlayer> It did not have a 3D printed plastic frame, exposed badly soldered wire or components mounted with (literally) double sided duct tape

L900[14:46:40] <APlayer> I figured a crash was not survivable anyway, so I did not bother to make it crash-resistant

L901[14:46:43] <Fluburtur> no but it had velcro straps

L902[14:46:58] <APlayer> Mine too has a velcro strap for the battery

L903[14:47:01] <Fluburtur> well it depends

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L905[14:47:11] <Fluburtur> I think yours is fairly small so it should be rather strong

L906[14:47:23] <SnoopJeDi> ooooh https://eos.org/articles/reversing-earths-spin-moves-deserts-reshapes-ocean-currents

L907[14:47:36] <APlayer> Main frame part is 1.75mm thick 3D printed ABS

L908[14:48:09] <ve2dmn> SnoopJeDi: and accelarating the spin creates a 'what-if.xkcd.com'

L909[14:48:13] <APlayer> Has two between 10 and 15 mm high and 1.75 mm thick diagonal bars from motor to motor

L910[14:48:39] <APlayer> And a bunch of very minor other stuff which I tried to add for structural support, but I doubt it helps much

L911[14:48:46] <Fluburtur> do you have pics?

L912[14:48:56] <APlayer> Uh, let me make one

L913[14:48:58] <APlayer> Or a few

L914[14:49:03] <SnoopJeDi> ve2dmn, the only kind of green smoothie I support :)

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L917[14:55:31] <APlayer> Fluburtur: https://imgur.com/a/B3Z7A

L918[14:56:03] <Fluburtur> yeah that should be fairly strong

L919[14:56:08] <APlayer> Uh

L920[14:56:12] <APlayer> I can bend it with my hand

L921[14:56:31] <APlayer> At least I can slightly rotate the motor/propeller assembly away along the diagonal frame axis

L922[14:56:45] <Fluburtur> won't shatter if it falls level

L923[14:57:00] <APlayer> I don't get to chose which way it falls if it does :P

L924[14:57:04] <Fluburtur> you could probably make the shape a bit more refined but eh

L925[14:57:13] <Fluburtur> some quads are stable when flying

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L927[14:57:18] <Fluburtur> like the syma x5

L928[14:57:43] <APlayer> I only hope if it falls more or less upright that the curved diagonals will absorb some of the impact

L929[14:58:04] <APlayer> Which was the curve's second purpose after aesthetics

L930[14:58:13] <ve2dmn> I do remember the time when a 'quad' was a 4-wheeled vehicule... how times have chnaged

L931[14:58:26] <APlayer> ve2dmn: In fact, it still is

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L933[14:58:34] <Fluburtur> https://img.staticbg.com/thumb/view/upload/2014/12/SKU115108-23.jpg

L934[14:58:34] <APlayer> A 4-propellered vehicle

L935[14:58:45] <Fluburtur> this one is a parachute when it falls

L936[14:58:56] <APlayer> Fluburtur: My battery is on the to side

L937[14:58:58] <Fluburtur> because it uses geared down props they slow it down a lot

L938[14:59:10] <APlayer> And has 25% the mass of the whole quad

L939[14:59:13] <Fluburtur> yeah you want the battery to be center

L940[14:59:24] <APlayer> On the top* side

L941[14:59:45] <APlayer> I did some calculations to ensure X/Y-Axis balance and I have to say it more or less worked out

L942[15:00:04] <APlayer> I can't really balance it on the center on one finger, but the CoM is not off by more than a few mm

L943[15:00:42] <Fluburtur> well if it's balanced it is good

L944[15:00:51] <Fluburtur> you don't want some motors to work harder

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L947[15:01:51] <APlayer> They will probably anyway, but the point is, I have more than 2 G of acceleration on the real quad at full speed, and more than 3G of acceleration on this prototype

L948[15:02:06] <APlayer> I can spare some power

L949[15:02:13] <APlayer> Especially here

L950[15:02:25] <Fluburtur> it's more about component life

L951[15:03:01] <APlayer> Some motors would degrade more quickly I guess, yes

L952[15:03:17] <APlayer> Not by much, though

L953[15:03:25] <Fluburtur> did you get it flying yet?

L954[15:04:45] <APlayer> Nope. Finalizing sensor calibration, plan for Friday is to get sensor fusion working, determine the need for a magnetometer and get the bias from the power line if necessary, set up curves for throttle -> thrust and battery voltage -> percentage

L955[15:05:12] <APlayer> Next week will be programming a basic control algorithm to get it to lift off, hover a few seconds and land

L956[15:05:36] <Fluburtur> have you made any PID loop yet?

L957[15:05:48] <APlayer> Not yet. I hope to avoid actual PID loops

L958[15:05:51] <Fluburtur> you want to have gyro and accellerometer for hover too

L959[15:05:58] <Fluburtur> eh stuff can't fly without PID

L960[15:06:01] <Fluburtur> especially quads

L961[15:06:07] <APlayer> I pretty much got gyro and accelerometer to work

L962[15:06:19] <APlayer> As I said, I need some calibration and sensor fusion

L963[15:06:29] <Fluburtur> motors mixing might be the easiest part in that whole project

L964[15:06:31] <APlayer> As for the PID, sure, but I don't need to really fly yet

L965[15:06:53] <APlayer> I just need to demonstrate liftoff to be allowed to continue

L966[15:07:06] <Fluburtur> well I guess some basic stabilisation can work for a while

L967[15:07:15] <APlayer> That's what I hope for, yes

L968[15:07:15] <Fluburtur> but you might get oscillations

L969[15:07:31] <APlayer> Perhaps a PD loop, which is much simpler to tweak than a full PID

L970[15:07:36] <Fluburtur> PID are annoying but they exist for a reason

L971[15:08:26] <APlayer> The one thing I am scared off is the PID tuning. Can't really do it without test launching, and can't really test launch without a properly tuned PID loop

L972[15:09:09] <Fluburtur> you could get stuff from the tune quads usually use

L973[15:09:17] <Fluburtur> but I guess the default values will be different

L974[15:09:31] <APlayer> I hope to make a small JS applet to simulate a PID loop with the quad given parameters, which would hopefully get me in the range of does-not-immediately-crash range and allow me to properly tune it

L975[15:09:33] <Fluburtur> no one likes tuning that

L976[15:10:45] <APlayer> Also, school gym with mats on the floow

L977[15:10:48] <APlayer> floor*

L978[15:11:17] <APlayer> I guess I'll just cause the program to cut power immediately if it detects uncontrollable drift or something, and hope for the best

L979[15:11:30] <Fluburtur> there might be multirotors pid loops already made for arduino crap

L980[15:11:34] <Fluburtur> you aren't the first to do that

L981[15:11:40] <APlayer> Sure, but it depends on everything

L982[15:11:47] <APlayer> Like, really everything

L983[15:12:09] <Fluburtur> if you want auto hover you might need a range sensor so it won't go to the sky

L984[15:12:17] <Fluburtur> unless the accel is sensitive enough

L985[15:12:22] <APlayer> I am likely the first to use these motors, propellers, ESCs and this size of quad with an Arduino

L986[15:12:43] <APlayer> Two ultrasonic ones are planned for the non-prototype

L987[15:12:54] <APlayer> One downward and one forward

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L989[15:13:23] <APlayer> A big concern is finding the down vector, though

L990[15:13:37] <Fluburtur> what do you mean

L991[15:13:54] <APlayer> I'll need the gyro, sure, but that'll drift. I can correct with the magnetometer, but that's severely affected by the motor power lines

L992[15:14:14] <APlayer> Fluburtur: I can't reliably say where down is

L993[15:14:15] <Fluburtur> you can probably make it correct itself

L994[15:14:30] <Fluburtur> the accellerometer will tell you that

L995[15:14:55] <APlayer> The accelerometer will always report down in the direction of the propeller thrust

L996[15:15:27] <Fluburtur> how do you think proper quads do that then

L997[15:15:53] <APlayer> Need to keep track of orientation with gyroscopes and magnetometers

L998[15:16:39] <APlayer> The accelerometer only reports acceleration, which comes exclusively from the force of drag (hopefully I am not fast enough for this to be significant) and the force of thrust

L999[15:17:21] <APlayer> Free fall, that is gravity without a force to counter it, is zero G

L1000[15:19:43] <APlayer> Fluburtur: How did you get the down vector in your quads?

L1001[15:19:58] <Fluburtur> isk the fc does it by itself

L1002[15:20:07] <Fluburtur> but im pretty sure the accel by itself can do it just fine

L1003[15:20:19] <APlayer> But how?

L1004[15:20:42] <Fluburtur> im pretty sure you can separate the force of the motors than the gravity

L1005[15:21:05] <Fluburtur> in acro mode the accel isn"t used, only gyro so that is easier

L1006[15:21:21] <Fluburtur> but sicne you won't tilt it too far it stays fairly easy

L1007[15:21:31] <Fluburtur> no massive acceleration to any direction

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L1011[15:29:02] <APlayer> As soon as it tilts, the thrust vector tilts and the reported down vector too

L1012[15:29:29] <Fluburtur> well not really

L1013[15:29:34] <APlayer> Magnitude is unchanged, so for the accelerometer, nothing happened

L1014[15:29:43] <Fluburtur> you won't need to tilt much more than 5°

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L1016[15:29:59] <Fluburtur> you will still have gravity and a slight sideways acceleration

L1017[15:30:12] <Fluburtur> unless you rocket up like crazy

L1018[15:30:45] <APlayer> I do have sideways acceleration, but the accelerometer is tilted just as sideways as my acceleration

L1019[15:30:47] <Fluburtur> have you looked at how arducopters do that?

L1020[15:30:50] <APlayer> So it cancels out

L1021[15:30:59] <Fluburtur> yeah but you still have the gyro

L1022[15:31:33] <APlayer> That's what I need to rely on

L1023[15:31:38] <Fluburtur> im pretty sure the gyro and accel can work together internally to keep track of down

L1024[15:31:55] <Fluburtur> ooo there is a bunch of bats outside

L1025[15:31:55] <APlayer> Hopefully it does not drift too much in the ten or so seconds I need to demonstrate

L1026[15:32:18] <APlayer> Data suggests it drifts at about 5 - 10 deg/min when calibrated sloppily

L1027[15:32:23] <Fluburtur> well sideways drift may be smaller than the accel can detect

L1028[15:32:30] <APlayer> Yaw drifts more than anything else too

L1029[15:32:38] <Fluburtur> but if you don't hover for too long it should be fine

L1030[15:32:45] <APlayer> The accel is rather sensitive

L1031[15:32:48] <Fluburtur> make it do some maneuvers and you won't see it

L1032[15:33:16] <APlayer> 16 bit data output, full scale range can be adjusted but is set to +/- 2G right now

L1033[15:33:31] <APlayer> So I have +/- 2G at 16 bit resolution

L1034[15:33:31] <Fluburtur> hovering is really the ardest things flying machines can do

L1035[15:33:52] <Fluburtur> uh my mpu6050 could go to 18Gs I think

L1036[15:33:57] <Fluburtur> which might be useful in a rocket

L1037[15:34:23] <APlayer> According to spec, the accel can resolve up to 61 uG

L1038[15:34:32] <APlayer> The other thing is that this will probably be pure noise

L1039[15:34:46] <APlayer> But I'll have a look at that

L1040[15:35:08] <APlayer> I should have comparatively little problems with that because I ideally have a velocity reference aside from the accel

L1041[15:35:42] <APlayer> That is, the ultrasonic sensor for low altitude, barometer for higher, out-of-range altitude, plus optical flow data from the camera

L1042[15:36:35] <APlayer> Hopefully I can actually implement all of those, but I'll have a year for that

L1043[15:36:51] <APlayer> For now, my concern is lift off, hover, land

L1044[15:37:18] <APlayer> With the deadline being Friday next week, "plus one week if I really need it"

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L1048[15:39:58] <APlayer> Aye, new record! 6 seconds!

L1049[15:40:07] <Fluburtur> heh

L1050[15:40:23] <Fluburtur> the european space agency can't irc

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L1052[15:51:20] <Fluburtur> https://78.media.tumblr.com/aeb0ff10028cc33ef02a803de897498c/tumblr_p1ocf0ueo51vkfsowo2_540.jpg

L1053[16:00:50] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: don't try to be Russian ;P

L1054[16:01:27] <Fluburtur> too late, I already have a gopnik role in a discord server

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L1066[17:28:58] <Draconiator> https://i.gyazo.com/17227250a34f794dc587a56957ed4bff.png

L1067[17:29:32] <Fluburtur> nice

L1068[17:29:59] <Fluburtur> try this one https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5o6Ua0BeJXYaW5OU2dqcHBuelU/view?usp=sharing

L1069[17:30:06] <Fluburtur> should work with your version of the game

L1070[17:30:12] <ve2dmn> the real question is...

L1071[17:30:29] <ve2dmn> Will it blend?

L1072[17:30:39] <Fluburtur> yeah

L1073[17:30:51] <Fluburtur> can pull crazy turns

L1074[17:30:53] <Fluburtur> at any speed

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L1081[17:45:43] <Draconiator> When I'm finished with this I'll send it to you, with the version number edited of course, see what you can do with it.

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L1083[17:46:22] <Fluburtur> I have a copy of the game in 1.3.1

L1084[17:54:38] <Draconiator> I'm just so happy that all we had to do is change version numbers! Now we can do combat with each other heheheh

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L1086[17:58:03] <Draconiator> LOVE the design of the 2000

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L1088[17:58:31] <Fluburtur> have you flow it?

L1089[17:58:43] <Fluburtur> it's a match for the k29 but it is rather fragile

L1090[17:58:55] <Fluburtur> but it can go weirdly fast for a design with so much wing

L1091[17:59:37] <Fluburtur> try to pull hard maneuvers

L1092[18:00:49] <Draconiator> I'm flying it right now, thing gives me BDA ideas.

L1093[18:01:16] <Fluburtur> I was a bit inspired by the interstelar spaceship

L1094[18:01:53] <Draconiator> And it crashed while I was typing...I should stay in there lol

L1095[18:01:55] <Fluburtur> im still not sure wether the k29 is better or this one

L1096[18:02:00] <Fluburtur> they are fairly different

L1097[18:02:19] <Fluburtur> the ks2000 has a better twr and can turn harder but is very fragile

L1098[18:02:21] <Draconiator> What's the thing that shoots out the back?

L1099[18:02:39] <Fluburtur> k29 has a lower twr but it can pull crazy post stalls maneuvers

L1100[18:02:49] <Fluburtur> probably something I put to put a rocket behind

L1101[18:02:52] <Fluburtur> you can remove it

L1102[18:02:56] <Fluburtur> this is a fairly old version

L1103[18:03:14] <Fluburtur> also the k29 can fly with like half of the plane gone

L1104[18:03:25] <Fluburtur> and it can hover on its engine and do weird stuff

L1105[18:03:42] <Fluburtur> the ks2000 can do that too but the k29 is better for that

L1106[18:03:46] <Fluburtur> so idk

L1107[18:04:05] <Fluburtur> I think the ks2000 got more range tho so it might be better suited as advanced escort

L1108[18:06:06] <Draconiator> The COM and COL must be nearly on top of each other with this kind of handling.

L1109[18:07:37] <Fluburtur> the COL is in front I think actually

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L1111[18:13:32] <Draconiator> The thing is basically stall-proof too

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L1117[18:20:48] <Guest82848> Does anyone agree that the new EULA violates the upcoming GDPR law in may

L1118[18:21:43] <Guest82848> locking out users for not agreeing the EULA is outright bs

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L1121[18:25:03] <TheKosmonaut> Guest82848: you could always take that up with someone in the EU. But afaik nobody here is a European lawyer or expert on the subject to inform you.

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L1123[18:25:29] <Supernovy> Evening, Gentlemen.

L1124[18:25:43] <TheKosmonaut> I would assume take two knows how to write a EULA that isn't in violation of whatever ordinance you cite

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L1127[18:28:17] <Draconiator> https://i.gyazo.com/9a0363ad4e09726c6e7b1ca702c9c9c7.png - I put PAC-3s on it

L1128[18:28:56] <Fluburtur> I put two pairs of my standard AA equipment and a pair of 20mm mg on mine

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L1131[18:29:16] <Fluburtur> my AA package being 1 AIM-120 and two AIM-9

L1132[18:30:01] <Arcan> Fluburtur: aren't those air-to-air missiles though

L1133[18:30:11] <Fluburtur> yes

L1134[18:30:16] <Fluburtur> but that's the point

L1135[18:30:18] <Fluburtur> anti air

L1136[18:30:22] <Arcan> AA usually means ground to air

L1137[18:30:27] <Fluburtur> or air to air

L1138[18:31:01] <Arcan> so PAC-3, flak, etc.

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L1140[18:32:34] <KrazyKrl> AA - Anti Aircraft.

L1141[18:33:04] <KrazyKrl> APFSDS-T AA.

L1142[18:46:01] <Draconiator> Never thought of using wings that way...

L1143[18:47:27] <AdmJackieSpiz> also does anyone know if it was Zubrin who proposed building a plane with a shuttle style cargo bay, that would zoom climb out of the atmosphere and drop a Centaur?

L1144[18:48:19] <AdmJackieSpiz> i remember the proposal but I cant remember what it was called

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L1162[19:37:49] <MaverickSawyer> Is anyone else having trouble with creating and editing posts on the forums right now? I've tried it on both my laptop and my phone. >:(

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L1164[19:37:56] <Eddi|zuHause> <TheKosmonaut> I would assume take two knows how to write a EULA that isn't in violation of whatever ordinance you cite <-- i would oppose that statement and propose that most EULAs out there violate one law or another, just it's not contested often enough

L1165[19:38:40] <VanD> I'm pretty sure the current one won't stand up in the EU...

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L1169[19:40:12] <Eddi|zuHause> back when games were still sold in boxes at stores, most EULAs were plain invalid on the grounds that you weren't able to view them before opening the box, yet they claimed "by opening the box you agree to this EULA"

L1170[19:40:33] <Fluburtur> don't open the box then

L1171[19:40:35] <Fluburtur> blow it up

L1172[19:41:17] <Eddi|zuHause> if you really challenge an EULA in court, the court usually sides with the user

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L1174[19:42:58] <Eddi|zuHause> that's based on the principle that the EULA is a one-sided contract, not a negotiation

L1175[19:42:59] <MaverickSawyer> Guys, is it just me, or is the server acting weird, like "not letting you post" kinda weird?

L1176[19:43:11] <Eddi|zuHause> "the server"?

L1177[19:43:11] <BenjaminK> What does usePristineCoords mean in Vessel.SetPosition(Vector3d position, bool usePristineCoords)?

L1178[19:43:19] <Fluburtur> there is a forum update I think

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L1180[19:43:36] <MaverickSawyer> AH, that would explain it. Thanks, Fluburtur.

L1181[19:43:40] <Fluburtur> anyways time for be

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L1183[19:43:43] <TheKosmonaut> Eddi|zuHause: then you're welcome to go oppose it. But I just grow wary of the conversation as it's been a pile of ground horse meat

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L1185[19:43:59] <TheKosmonaut> Weary*

L1186[19:45:53] <Eddi|zuHause> well, i haven't seen much of "the conversation" then. also i don't know any details about the problem *this time*, it's just a more general observation

L1187[19:48:01] <Eddi|zuHause> also, i have no intention of challenging anythin in any court whatsoever

L1188[19:48:12] <BenjaminK> Anyone know?

L1189[19:52:26] <Draconiator> https://i.gyazo.com/5e2a861141ec4dfb43ab44fa260c9c28.jpg - I think I'm going to start using wings in ways other than "normal" lol

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L1191[19:53:05] <Eddi|zuHause> BenjaminK: if the documentation doesn't even mention it, i'm afraid you must dig into the actual source code to find out

L1192[19:53:42] <BenjaminK> ho boy

L1193[19:54:15] <Eddi|zuHause> Draconiator: how does "normal" and "KSP" even mix?

L1194[19:55:48] <taniwha> Eddi|zuHause: via an orbit

L1195[19:56:45] <Eddi|zuHause> taniwha: in that sense, wings are never "normal" :p

L1196[19:57:23] <BenjaminK> taniwha: do you have any idea regarding Vessel.SetPosition?

L1197[19:58:20] <taniwha> maybe a vague one. I used it in EL 4 years ago

L1198[20:00:26] <BenjaminK> you know what they mean by pristineCoords?

L1199[20:00:48] <taniwha> ones that haven't been warped by external forces

L1200[20:01:04] <BenjaminK> such as…?

L1201[20:01:14] <BenjaminK> I didnt know forces could effect coords

L1202[20:01:32] <taniwha> you haven't seen a bendy rocket? :)

L1203[20:01:38] <BenjaminK> Ach

L1204[20:02:05] <BenjaminK> So if I'm just changine the orbit of a rocket it shouldnt matter, right?

L1205[20:04:31] <taniwha> I don't know

L1206[20:04:41] <taniwha> experiment, I guess

L1207[20:04:51] <BenjaminK> sounds good, thabks

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L1223[21:25:48] *** AdmJackieSpiz1 is now known as AdmJackieSpiz

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L1239[22:19:18] <BenjaminK> Anyone know of a mod that has simple Unity gui?

L1240[22:19:33] <BenjaminK> simple mod w/ simple gui?

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L1251[23:58:38] <Althego> https://imgur.com/a/XuJgu

L1252[23:58:46] <Althego> https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/8atm7h/ksp_fan_art_we_lost_our_ascent_vehicle/

L1253[23:58:52] <Althego> https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/8b2x5c/ksp_fan_art_02_a_tragedy_on_duna/