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L1[00:03:31] ⇦
Quits: NolanSyKinsley
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L3[00:09:24] <Supercheese> maybe a mod like
Filter Extensions?
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L8[00:22:53] <RhineBTV> well I mean moreso
just for quick searching, not permanently removing parts from a
category
L9[00:23:42] <RhineBTV> like I installed the
ProbesPlus mod and I wanted to browse just their parts but also
know what category they're usually listed under
L10[00:24:04] <RhineBTV> since the
manufacturer filter removes all the categories and just puts all
the parts in a single list
L11[00:24:32] <RhineBTV> cool mod,
btw
L12[00:24:54] <RhineBTV> like some of these
probe cores that have stack nodes but also has vacant space where
you can tuck batteries and junk inside them
L13[00:25:39] <RhineBTV> sure you can part
clip stuff if you want, but I try to keep that within some sort of
"reasonable" threshold
L14[00:30:55] <RhineBTV> and a lot of em
come with mini rcs thrusters on em, pretty coo'
L16[00:32:03] <Epi> flight related, so ksp
gets it
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L21[01:18:01] <Althego> tess is going up on
a falcon 9? double win
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L44[03:20:49] <Rokker> Althego: No landing
tho
L45[03:21:21] <Rokker> afaik
L46[03:25:33] <Althego> they have to get
rid of the old block models somehow :)
L47[03:25:58] <Althego> that reminds me,
any update on tiangong reentry?
L48[03:27:05] *
taniwha takes note: paper airplanes can be dangerous
L49[03:29:22] <Althego> assassin tool:
paper airplane. poke out eye
L50[03:31:33] <Rokker> Althego: yep. its
still comin down
L51[03:31:42] <Althego> lol that is not an
update
L52[03:31:54] <Althego> i was hoping for a
precision increase
L53[03:32:10] <Althego> probably they are
not working on easter weekend
L54[03:32:33] <Althego> but this sounds
dangerous, how wide the window is, it could fall on cities
L55[03:33:17] <Rokker> Althego: precision
is increasing but its coming with an overall increase in the
time
L56[03:33:44] <Rokker> like jumping to the
right by hour(s)
L57[03:33:58] <Althego> esa and scott manly
is from yesterday
L58[03:34:15] <Rokker> Althego: 16:15 UTC
+-9:00h
L59[03:34:24] <Rokker> on the first
still
L60[03:35:06] <Rokker> Althego: perigee is
now 168 km
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L62[03:36:55] <Rokker> Althego: apogee is
185 tho
L63[03:37:18] <Althego> somebody should
send a kerbal and nudge it with the suit jets :)
L64[03:39:26] <Rokker> Althego: only if
they nudge it deeper into the atmosphere
L65[03:39:33] <Rokker> down with
tiangong
L66[03:41:57] <Althego> finally found
predictions from today
L67[03:42:17] <Althego> seems to be late in
the night on april
L68[03:42:18] <Althego> 1st
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L70[03:43:27] <Althego> around 21-22 utc,
+-10-11h
L71[03:45:58] <Rokker> my predictions were
from today too
L72[03:46:36] <Rokker> or were from late
last night
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L74[03:47:59] <Althego> depends on what you
mean today. i meant 32st
L75[03:48:00] <Althego> 31
L76[03:48:46] <Rokker> Althego: Langbroek
is saying 21:15 +-11h
L77[03:50:14] <Rokker> Althego: actually
two predeictions
L78[03:50:27] <Rokker> the other method
says 22:05
L79[03:50:29] <Rokker> so
L80[03:50:38] <Rokker> narrowing down on a
time I suppose
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L91[05:36:34] <Althego> hah, now that i
think of it, i am safe from tiangong
L92[05:36:38] <Althego> too far north
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L98[05:50:04] <sandbox> oh that reminds me,
I had a weird dream that Scott Manley and Dominik Diamond were on a
pizza advert together
L99[05:51:49] <Eddi|zuHause> ... is a
sentence nobody ever put in a "top 10 reasons how you know you
watch too much youtube" list
L100[05:52:05] <Althego> hehe
L101[05:52:16] <Althego> i have never
heard about domnik diamond
L102[05:52:24] <Eddi|zuHause> me
neither
L103[05:52:36] <Pakaran> Has anyone played
with Stationscience?
L104[05:52:54] <Eddi|zuHause> also i only
ever watched like two scott manley videos ever
L105[05:53:00] <Althego> honestly sound
like someone acting in adult videos :)
L106[05:53:16] <Althego> hah, kill the
heretic
L107[05:53:54] <Eddi|zuHause> you spot the
heretic because they wear pants. wait, wrong game.
L108[05:59:16] <Daz> holy crap I thought
trying out UKS would be a walk in the park but I can't even get to
Minmus without having to rethink my lander :S
L109[06:00:15] <taniwha> Getting to Minmus
is easy. Getting infrastructure to Minmus is not so easy.
L110[06:00:27] <Daz> taniwha my kerbals
get homesick :/
L111[06:00:39] <Daz> seems I need to add
cupoles to extend something called habtime
L112[06:01:04] <taniwha> the concept is
believable, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired
L113[06:01:34] <Eddi|zuHause> wait, these
guys went to space expecting to come BACK?!?
L115[06:01:44] <taniwha> Eddi|zuHause:
pretty much
L116[06:02:10] <Pakaran> Daz, you can also
under-crew the craft (say, 2 in a hitchhiker) to get better use out
of the Kerbal-months.
L117[06:02:11] <taniwha> and I suspect
RoverDude never read Heinlein
L118[06:02:16] <Mat2ch> Now I see what I'm
missing in KSP. It would be fun to have a mission mode that tells
you to build a Minmus base and keep your Kerbals happy so that the
base will grow and grow.
L119[06:02:17] <Althego> fluburtur, you
should open it with soldering iron
L120[06:02:17] <Mat2ch> :P
L121[06:02:18] <taniwha> or at least not
his older stuff
L122[06:02:29] <Fluburtur> Althego that
could actually work
L123[06:02:33] <taniwha> his characters
/do/ get homesick, briefly
L124[06:02:47] <Daz> Pakaran so far my
landers have all been 1.25 but it seems I'm going to have to go 2.5
now
L125[06:03:07] <taniwha> (often, go on
leave or such, return to Earth, decide it's not for them, return to
space with nary a regret)
L126[06:03:21] <Pakaran> Daz, the
hitchhiker has a big hab advantage over anything below the 90
science tier AFAIR.
L127[06:03:22] <Eddi|zuHause> Mat2ch:
Surviving Minimus?
L128[06:03:23] <Mat2ch> (and have things
like mini missions: Transport 8 Kerbals back to Kerbin, because
they're homesick)
L129[06:03:23] <Daz> I guess I'll toss on
some construction ports so I can use it as a future base in case
there's good stuff where I happen to land
L130[06:03:27] <Mat2ch> Eddi|zuHause:
:D
L131[06:04:01] <Pakaran> (except a few
inflatable parts that nobody's going to use in a lander, and
require a lot of mechanical parts and whatnot)
L132[06:04:14] <Althego> hah, new idea,
convex earth
L133[06:04:26] <Daz> Mat2ch I think
there's a contract pack like that? Used to be atleast last I played
sometime around 1.1-1.2
L134[06:04:49] <Daz> Pakaran didn't you
say there was a youtuber who did series with uks? Mind throwing a
name?
L135[06:05:05] <Eddi|zuHause> earth is
obviously concave. why else would your shoes wear out at the front
and the back?
L136[06:05:28] <Althego> they do?
L137[06:05:40] <taniwha> they do
L138[06:05:58] <Daz> minmus surface back
to kerbin, how many dV do I need?
L139[06:06:11] <Althego> i remember in
once case the bottom broke in half because of repeated structural
stress
L140[06:06:12] <Eddi|zuHause> generally
about 20 more that i have
L141[06:06:33] <taniwha> Daz: < 300m/s,
I think
L142[06:06:53] <Daz> wow, I knew it was
little but that's not a lot at all
L143[06:07:16] <Daz> I looked at my 1500dV
escape craft and was like "yeah that might be a little
much" :p
L144[06:07:16] <taniwha> A kerbal can land
from low minmus orbit, take off and return to kerbin on one pack of
propellant
L145[06:07:25] <taniwha> not a good plan
since 1.0, though
L146[06:07:47] <taniwha> (a kerbal has
about 500m/s)
L147[06:07:50] <Mat2ch> taniwha: bring a
pocket heat shield. :D
L148[06:08:46] <Eddi|zuHause> can a kerbal
assemble a heat shield and something to grab onto from KIS
inventory?
L150[06:09:59] <Daz> ugh why is there no
short 1.8->2.5 adapter -.-
L151[06:09:59] <kmath> YouTube - Kerbal
Space Program - Multiplanetary Species Episode 01
L152[06:10:51] <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, you
can get away with less dV, if you return to kerbin via mun
encounter
L153[06:11:13] <Eddi|zuHause> took me a
few tries though
L154[06:11:25] <Pakaran> in any case,
total orbital velocity at Minmus' attitude is LOW.
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L156[06:13:40] <Mat2ch> Orbiting on RCS is
pretty easy, yes :)
L157[06:13:56] <Daz> damnit I wish I had
the bigger fairings earlier, it seems so weird they're high in the
tech tree (running CTT, no idea where they're at in stock)
L158[06:14:04] <Pakaran> first time I went
to Minmus, I brought plenty of fuel, and a lander based on a
Terrier (I'd gone to the Mun in the same game).
L159[06:14:11] <Pakaran> Maybe 1.5 tonnes
total lander mass tops..
L160[06:14:27] <Pakaran> Forgot to thrust
limit, ended up not so much wasting fuel as bouncing and wasting
time.
L161[06:15:28] <Mat2ch> hehe
L162[06:15:53] <Mat2ch> I'm waiting for a
fix for the landing legs in KSP. I don't want to land on the
engines :P
L163[06:16:06] <Eddi|zuHause> you mean a
philae-style landing?
L164[06:16:18] <Daz> Pakaran I'm using Ant
engines in my build right now :p
L165[06:16:27] <Daz> Eddi|zuHause too soon
:/
L166[06:16:40] <Pakaran> well, it did
better than me. I think it bounced once.
L167[06:16:48] <Pakaran> Just lost control
and couldn't land at a good attitude.
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L169[06:17:39] <Pakaran> I think
"thrust limit to, at most, three times local TWR unless
there's a reason not to" is going to be on my mental checklist
for awhile.
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L171[06:18:46] <Eddi|zuHause> i never
really used thrust limiter
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L173[06:18:57] <Althego> it is good for
fine adjustments
L174[06:19:11] <Althego> also on
solids
L175[06:19:21] <Pakaran> yeah, I'm not
sure how I'd refine a reentry periapse without it (or using
RCS)
L176[06:19:32] <Althego> you can achieve
more delta v with limited solids because you dont wasate it to
atmospheric drag
L177[06:20:00] <Daz> are there any mods
which add decent solid second and thirdstages?
L178[06:20:14] <Daz> seems most just add
boosters
L179[06:20:26] <Pakaran> Althego, yeah. I
notice a BIG difference with the "classic first craft" in
particular.
L180[06:20:32] <Pakaran> (trashcan, pod,
chute)
L181[06:21:35] <Althego> in reality solids
are rarely used as later stages
L182[06:21:47] <Althego> low isp
L183[06:21:55] <Althego> it is better to
burn you low isp fuel first
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L185[06:22:22] <Pakaran> I remember
reading that some stock solid engines are actually on the low end
of the ISPs possible on Earth.
L186[06:22:47] <Althego> ksp engines all
have low isps
L187[06:22:55] <Althego> ok, maybe not the
nuke and jets
L188[06:23:01] <Althego> for balance
reasons
L189[06:23:13] <Pakaran> Liquid, though,
there's liquid engines with TWR in the hundreds, and I think the
ISP of liquid hydrogen is 4-digit.
L190[06:23:34] <Althego> rs-25 has
somethin like 420 s
L191[06:23:54] <Althego> 450 in
vacuum
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L193[06:24:24] <Althego> going 4 digits
you either have to go ions, or cheat with jets
L194[06:24:33] <Pakaran> ah.
L195[06:25:02] <Althego> because jets are
simply cheating, they dont have that high exchaust velocity, they
just take mass from the atmosphere
L196[06:25:11] <Pakaran> I'd assume it's
possible to go a bit better by optimizing for vacuum though?
L197[06:25:20] <Pakaran> and oxygen has a
BIG atomic mass, yep.
L198[06:25:44] <Althego> yes, probably,
but not by much
L199[06:26:11] <Althego> most of that high
isp comes from the hydrogen in the case of rs-25
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L201[06:26:37] <taniwha> thus rockets tend
to burn rich
L202[06:26:47] <taniwha> get more H2 and
CO
L203[06:26:53] <Althego> because of
several reasons
L204[06:27:02] <taniwha> runs slightly
cooler, too
L205[06:27:03] <Pakaran> ah, I know some
of the KSP nerfing is simply in the high dry mass of tanks
L206[06:27:16] <Pakaran> and is a reducing
flame, which won't eat e.g. steel parts?
L207[06:27:19] <taniwha> and high mass of
the engines
L208[06:27:23] <Althego> one is the
preburner, other is the cooling around the nozzle walls
L209[06:27:43] <taniwha> and high mass of
every other part
L210[06:27:52] <taniwha> (eg, command
pods)
L211[06:27:59] <Althego> yes, ksp things
are really heavy
L212[06:28:06] <Althego> i hatethe 3
person command pod mass
L213[06:28:11] <Althego> it is excessively
heavy
L214[06:28:22] <Althego> i take it only
for looks or as a challenge
L215[06:28:25] <taniwha> not when compared
to the mk1 pod
L216[06:28:41] <taniwha> when compared to
the mk1 pod, it's actually a little light
L217[06:28:55] <taniwha> but the mk1 pod
is excessively massive
L218[06:29:03] <Althego> isnt that 0.86
t?
L219[06:29:16] <Althego> the mk1-3? or
what isits name now is like4 t
L220[06:29:17] <taniwha> 800kg is a lot
for a shell
L221[06:29:43] <Pakaran> the mk1 is also
based on the Mercury capsule. Which was really, really
cramped.
L222[06:30:02] <Althego> what i dont
understand, how 1-2-3 kerbals fit in the russian style
capsule
L223[06:30:06] <taniwha> Althego:
2.6t
L224[06:30:11] <taniwha> (not including
monoprop)
L225[06:30:40] <Eddi|zuHause> i should
learn to remove monoprop in the VAB
L226[06:30:41] <taniwha> 0.8t for the
mk1
L227[06:30:52] ⇦
Quits: m4v (m4v!~znc@190.51.51.172) (Ping timeout: 383
seconds)
L228[06:31:01]
⇨ Joins: mkv (mkv!~znc@190.51.2.230)
L229[06:31:05] <Althego> i intentionally
not remove monoprop
L230[06:31:07] ***
mkv is now known as m4v
L231[06:31:19] <taniwha> since the mk1-3
is effectively 2x the scale of the mk1, it /should/ be 8x as
massive, not 3.25
L232[06:31:51] <Althego> if you expect it
to be a solid object. but it should be mostly empty space
inside
L233[06:32:05] <taniwha> (the mass of a
pressure vessel scales directly with the volume it contains)
L234[06:32:39] <taniwha> Althego: that's
the intuitive thing, but reality is not always intuitive
L235[06:32:43] <Althego> but you dont need
3 times as much engineering parts for things that run it
L236[06:32:43] <Eddi|zuHause> the mass
scaling of 8x assumes wall thickness also doubles
L237[06:32:49] <Eddi|zuHause> and all
internal modules
L238[06:32:50] <Pakaran> because it needs
to have enough tensile strength to hold the pressure on a wider
cross section?
L239[06:32:54] <taniwha> as the contained
volume increases, so does the required thickness of the walls
L240[06:33:20] <taniwha> Eddi|zuHause: the
wall thickness must double too, or the walls will be too weak
L241[06:33:30] <Althego> to hold it
structurally
L242[06:33:32] <Pakaran> That does make
sense.
L243[06:33:34] <Althego> that sounds
reasonalbe
L244[06:33:45] <taniwha> both structurally
and against the pressure
L245[06:33:46] <Althego> but does the wall
makes most of its mass?
L246[06:34:09] <taniwha> if it doesn't,
then that might explain the < 8x
L247[06:34:20] <taniwha> (3x the
seats+controls)
L248[06:34:42] <taniwha> 3xseat +
8xwall
L250[06:35:37] <Pakaran> so scaled to
Kerbals, that should be lighter than a mk1 pod. Maybe significantly
lighter.
L251[06:36:02] <Pakaran> granted, you'd
need the deorbit engine, heat shield, and very basic life support
to be really equivalent
L252[06:37:28] <Althego> also not that
even the mk3 capsule is lighter for 4 people
L253[06:37:31]
⇨ Joins: mkv (mkv!~znc@190.51.5.118)
L254[06:37:38] ⇦
Quits: m4v (m4v!~znc@190.51.2.230) (Ping timeout: 383
seconds)
L255[06:37:38] ***
mkv is now known as m4v
L256[06:38:09] <Althego> at least we got
the 2 person capsule i always wanted
L257[06:38:25] <Althego> still no 3 person
cockpit
L258[06:38:34] <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't
actually played since 1.4
L259[06:38:52] <Eddi|zuHause> also,
gtg
L260[06:38:55] <Althego> me neither
L261[06:39:04] <Althego> i was somewhat
sick, and also tired because of issues
L262[06:39:19] <Eddi|zuHause> yeah issues
are the worst
L263[06:39:28] <Althego> rl issues
L265[06:39:37] <Althego> there are a few
in the 46x s range
L266[06:39:49] <Althego> but not much
better than the rs-25
L268[06:40:17] <Pakaran> I did know that
all the first astronauts had a smaller than average build.
L269[06:40:35] <taniwha> Althego: what got
me the other day was Heinlein was suggesting (back in the 40s) tha
1000s was possible for chemical rockets
L270[06:41:06] <Althego> how? probably not
even fith foof
L271[06:41:14] <taniwha> (Space Cadet made
a brief mention of a chemical rocket with 10000m/s exhaust
velocity)
L272[06:41:30] <Althego> ah m/s
L273[06:41:39] <taniwha> Althego: I just
realized it might have been one of those "math problem
numbers"
L274[06:41:48] <taniwha> 10000m/s ->
1019s
L275[06:41:57] <Fluburtur> ay
taniwha
L276[06:42:03] <taniwha> hi,
Fluburtur
L277[06:42:19] <Fluburtur> I tried your
blender thingy again and I can't make it work
L278[06:42:29] <Fluburtur> looks like
there is somthign wrong with the craft file format
L279[06:42:46] <taniwha> Althego: anyway,
I wasn't sure which befuddled me more, the 10000m/s exhaust
velocity on chemical, or the use of metric when the rest of the
book used imperial
L280[06:43:00] <Althego> hehe
L281[06:43:09] <taniwha> Fluburtur: recent
git?
L282[06:43:18] <Fluburtur> latest version
yes
L283[06:43:24] <Fluburtur> unless you made
a new one since
L284[06:43:44] <taniwha> git clone/pull,
not the release
L285[06:43:48] <taniwha> 1.0.0 is
ancient
L286[06:44:05] <taniwha> (not sure 1.0.0
had craft import anyway)
L287[06:44:12] <Fluburtur> looks like it
does
L288[06:44:26] <taniwha> clone the
repo
L289[06:44:32] <taniwha> you'll get much
further
L290[06:44:48] <Fluburtur> how do I do
that
L291[06:44:52] <Althego> maybe i would
travel to the south pole (just to annoy flat earthers), but it is
too cold there
L292[06:44:52] <taniwha> also, there's an
error in the language files
L293[06:45:05] <taniwha> (ie, in
GameData/Squad)
L295[06:46:16] <taniwha> (there are
windows git clients)
L296[06:46:33] <Pakaran> My favorite
Heinlein fact: While he did 'invent' the geosynchronous
communications satellite, he assumed there'd be on the order of
three of them, and each would be a station with several crew.
L297[06:46:46] <Fluburtur> so I have to
download the client thing?
L298[06:46:46] <Pakaran> Someone had to
change the vacuum tubes on the night shift, after all.
L299[06:46:48] <Althego> hehe
L300[06:46:52] <Daz> is there ever a
reason for me to use any other engine than the wolfhound for the
last stage?
L301[06:47:08] <Althego> which one is that
again?
L302[06:47:11] <Althego> got new
name
L303[06:47:19] <Daz> a new one, 412
isp
L304[06:47:19] <taniwha> Pakaran: it
appears he invented the iris door
L305[06:47:29] <Althego> hehe,
stargate
L306[06:53:45] <Althego> the reason is
simple, isp not always wins
L307[06:54:03] <Althego> you can get more
delta v with a smaller engine with worse isp
L308[06:54:37] ⇦
Quits: m4v (m4v!~znc@190.51.5.118) (Ping timeout: 182
seconds)
L309[06:55:06] <taniwha> ΔV is linear with
Isp, logarithmic with mass ratio
L310[06:55:22] <Althego> true
L311[06:55:48] <taniwha> (which means
lowering your mass ratio can do more damage than lowering your
isp)
L312[06:56:07] <Althego> try using the
nuke for everything :)Ö
L313[06:56:33]
⇨ Joins: m4v (m4v!~znc@190.51.14.140)
L314[06:56:52] <Althego> so there are
cases when you are better off with a smaller engine
L315[07:00:00] ⇦
Quits: VanDisaster (VanDisaster!~Miranda@sea.sux.net) (Quit:
Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/)
L316[07:00:06] <Fluburtur> taniwha k I
used the github client thing to get the thing on my computer, do I
do the usual blender addon thing now?
L317[07:00:16]
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L318[07:00:37]
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L319[07:00:44] <taniwha> Fluburtur:
yes
L320[07:02:03] <Fluburtur> doesn't the
addons need to be zipped for the thing to work?
L321[07:03:32] <Fluburtur> well let's see
if it works
L322[07:04:36]
⇨ Joins: GurrenLagannCWP
(GurrenLagannCWP!webchat@170.231.113.148)
L323[07:05:13] <Fluburtur> uh,
failed
L324[07:05:28] <taniwha> just move the
addon directory into the scripts/addons directory
L325[07:06:17] ⇦
Quits: m4v (m4v!~znc@190.51.14.140) (Ping timeout: 186
seconds)
L327[07:06:35] <Fluburtur> I will try
importing another craft
L328[07:06:49] <Althego> hehe python
L329[07:07:39] <taniwha> Fluburtur:
there's a part cfg that has no name
L330[07:08:02] <Fluburtur> why would that
be
L331[07:08:15] <taniwha> because somebody
messed up when creating the part
L332[07:08:41] <Fluburtur> weird
L333[07:08:46] <Fluburtur> it is only
stock parts btw
L334[07:08:48] <taniwha> Fluburtur: hang
on a moment, I'll make that code a little more robust
L335[07:08:58] <taniwha> stock cfg files
have bugs :P
L336[07:09:04] <Althego> hehe
L337[07:09:09] <Fluburtur> heh
L338[07:09:13] <Fluburtur> bad devs
L339[07:10:23] <GurrenLagannCWP> Fluburtur
is Thomas IRL
L340[07:10:27] ⇦
Quits: NoSyk
(NoSyk!~NolanSyKi@2606:6000:5112:df00:479a:75ae:85c0:ddf) (Remote
host closed the connection)
L341[07:10:34] <Althego> the tank
engine?
L342[07:10:44] <Fluburtur> oh god no
L343[07:10:47] <Althego> lol
L344[07:10:59] <Althego> or the
disciple
L345[07:11:52] <Fluburtur> I will make a
new craft ot test as well
L346[07:12:13] <Althego> our work is never
over :)
L347[07:13:13] <GurrenLagannCWP>
Fluburtur: Now i know your IRL name lalalala
L348[07:13:24] <Fluburtur> it's not a
secret really
L349[07:13:32] <Fluburtur> but finding my
last name will be very hard
L350[07:13:45] <GurrenLagannCWP>
true
L351[07:13:47] <taniwha> Fluburtur: do a
git pull
L352[07:13:56] <GurrenLagannCWP> we have
to search DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
L353[07:13:59] <taniwha> it will handle
the part a little better
L354[07:14:02] <Althego> do pull ups and
push ups, they are good for you :)
L355[07:14:17] <taniwha> (I've got other
weird problems I need to look into)
L357[07:17:35]
⇨ Joins: m4v (m4v!~znc@190.51.24.209)
L358[07:17:39] <Fluburtur> failed but with
a different message
L360[07:19:06] <GurrenLagannCWP> lol
L361[07:19:11] <GurrenLagannCWP> soo
hard
L362[07:19:18] <Althego> hehe
nonetype
L363[07:19:19] <GurrenLagannCWP> like
kopernicus
L364[07:19:32] <Althego> i really hate in
python that none cant do anything
L365[07:19:44] <Althego> why cant it be
zero and empty string ike in other script languages
L366[07:20:07] <Althego> because of that
you have to make explicit checks for it all the time
L367[07:21:34] <taniwha> None /does/ act
like 0, "", [], {}, ()
L368[07:21:38] <taniwha> and False
L369[07:21:48] <taniwha> (thought there
was another one)
L370[07:22:01] <Althego> then it is
something else basic, but i remember it always fails in a way it
shouldnt
L371[07:22:23] <taniwha> if foo: (foo can
be any of the above)
L372[07:22:32] <taniwha> but yeah, 0*None
doesn't work, and shouldn't
L373[07:23:06] <taniwha> what bugs me is
that python doesn't allow 1/0.0 to be infinity
L374[07:23:20] <taniwha> (like the FPU
does :P)
L375[07:23:20] <Althego> and it
shouldnt
L376[07:23:29] <Althego> that is
dumb
L378[07:23:37] <taniwha> ieee spec
L379[07:24:02] <taniwha> 1/0.0 gives
infinite, 1/-0.0 gives -infinite
L380[07:24:07] <taniwha> er,
infinity
L381[07:24:14] <Althego> because depending
on + or - zero it is either + or - infinity, thus the value at zero
doesnt exist
L382[07:24:31] <taniwha> true zero does
not exist in ieee fp
L383[07:24:39] <taniwha> it's either +0.0
or -0.0
L384[07:25:19] <taniwha> but yes, 1/0 is
not defined
L385[07:25:32] <Althego> hehe, that is
your problem. how are you going to build algebra without a zero
:)
L386[07:26:00] <GurrenLagannCWP> sooooo
many Tube Tycoon requests in IGG Games
L387[07:26:14] <GurrenLagannCWP> not even
the mods can stop then
L388[07:27:30] <taniwha> they can shut
down the forum
L389[07:28:01] <GurrenLagannCWP> no
L390[07:28:19] <GurrenLagannCWP> then
requests for other games cant be made
L391[07:28:49] ⇦
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(Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
L392[07:33:23] ⇦
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L393[07:38:58] <Pakaran> So I'm
brainstorming on my Spacecamp BFR design.
L394[07:39:36] <Pakaran> I have a mock-up
already made, which will make orbit and provide life support for
everyone aboard. Now, there's at least two issues:
L395[07:40:26] <Pakaran> it's still just
slightly heavy for my level 2 launch pad. I'm fairly confident in
dealing with that one, and it wouldn't be hard for me to save for
level 3 at this point anyhow.
L396[07:41:58] <Pakaran> However, right
now, it's just a spine of Hitchhikers with a 2.5-1.5 adaptor, mk1
pod, chutes and life support. The real problem is that I'm not sure
how well it will remain stable on reentry, since it's quite
long.
L397[07:42:25] <Pakaran> I'm not sure how
the Hitchhikers will do with the heating if it ends up
"falling" to edge-on.
L398[07:46:56] <taniwha> GurrenLagannCWP:
so?
L399[07:47:06] <taniwha> my point is,
there's always a way
L400[07:49:17] <GurrenLagannCWP> taniwha:
so the site cant continue
L401[07:49:36] <GurrenLagannCWP> when the
link breaks, it stays broken
L402[07:49:39] <taniwha> true, didn't say
there wouldn't be consequences
L403[07:50:25] <GurrenLagannCWP> so people
cant have the game
L404[07:55:11]
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(Olympic1!~Olympic1@ptr-cdbjg9ka3lu1skn13m6.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
L405[07:57:59] <taniwha> so?
L406[07:58:19] <taniwha> that's still not
"not even the mods can stop then"
L407[07:58:27] <taniwha> [sic]
L408[08:04:25] ⇦
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seconds)
L409[08:06:39]
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L410[08:09:08] <taniwha> Fluburtur: known
bugs in my addon fixed, so you might want to update
L411[08:09:19] <taniwha> should even be a
little faster
L412[08:09:20] <Fluburtur> ok imma gonna
do that
L413[08:09:57]
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(Addle!~quassel@24-246-9-177.cable.teksavvy.com)
L415[08:13:11] <Fluburtur> same as last
time
L416[08:25:36] <GurrenLagannCWP>
Fluburtur: broken forever
L417[08:34:25]
⇨ Joins: Guest60629
(Guest60629!webchat@c-76-106-155-33.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
L418[08:35:11] <GurrenLagannCWP> guests
pollute the IRC
L419[08:35:24] <ve2dmn> no
L421[08:36:30] <kmath> YouTube - 0.38
Second Rubik's Cube Solve
L422[08:38:03] ⇦
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(Guest60629!webchat@c-76-106-155-33.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Client
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L423[08:38:30]
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(Guest60629!webchat@c-76-106-155-33.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
L424[08:39:16] <Guest60629> i have a
question
L425[08:41:51] <GurrenLagannCWP>
Guest60629: what question
L426[08:43:00] <Guest60629> when i lauch
my spaceplane it always starts roughly 1000m above the runway is
there anyway to stop this?
L427[08:43:23] <ve2dmn> Screenshot?
L428[08:43:36] <ve2dmn> Also, are you
using any mods?
L429[08:44:01] <Guest60629> only mod is
OPT parts
L430[08:45:52] <ve2dmn> does that happen
with every spaceplane or just one?
L431[08:46:10]
⇨ Joins: Kabouik
(Kabouik!~kabouik@236.34.200.37.customer.cdi.no)
L432[08:46:32] <GurrenLagannCWP>
Guest60629: press F1 and F12 when you launch a spaceplane then post
on Imgur
L433[08:46:33] ⇦
Quits: Kabouik (Kabouik!~kabouik@236.34.200.37.customer.cdi.no)
(Remote host closed the connection)
L434[08:46:42] <Guest60629> different ones
some with mod parts some without
L435[08:46:49]
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L436[08:48:28] ⇦
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timeout: 182 seconds)
L437[08:49:49] <Guest60629> where to post
on imgur
L438[08:50:09] <ve2dmn> or any other image
share site
L440[08:50:59] <kmath> YouTube - How to
upload images to imgur com
L441[08:51:45] <GurrenLagannCWP>
Guest60629: the video above will explain to you
L444[08:54:12] <GurrenLagannCWP>
Ehhhhhhhhh
L445[08:54:26] <GurrenLagannCWP> ve2dmn:
the screenshot has arrived
L446[08:54:48] <ve2dmn> look weird.
L447[08:55:01] <ve2dmn> I'm not 100% sure
what's wrong
L448[08:58:13] <ve2dmn> Best advice would
be to backup this install of KSP, re-install it from zero and try
again.
L449[08:58:24] <ve2dmn> then install the
mod, and try again
L450[08:59:33] <Guest60629> i will
try
L452[09:06:50] <kmath> YouTube - KSP -
Kraken Tower
L453[09:12:05]
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L459[09:19:36] <Gasher> GurrenLagannCWP,
party tentacle
L460[09:19:50] <GurrenLagannCWP> true
Gasher
L461[09:22:54] ⇦
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()
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L466[09:59:53] <Azander> for the making
history expansion, where do I find a saturn V w/lander craft file
?
L467[10:00:17]
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L469[10:21:39] <TheKosmonaut> Azander: you
could look on that craft exchange site
L470[10:30:19] <Azander> I was hoping for
the Official KSP one from Squad.
L471[10:31:05]
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L472[10:35:07] ⇦
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(Quit: Bye :))
L473[10:45:33] ⇦
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L475[10:46:42] <Althego> update
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L477[11:14:26] <darsie> Bug: I have an
encounter in 36 orbits. I place a maneuver to be executed in 1
minute to reduce the rendezvous distance to 0.0 km. The delta-v bar
decreases and increases back to full without thrusting. I no longer
have an indicator how long to thrust. These are very small
delta-vs, <0.1 m/s, I think.
http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot38.png
L478[11:15:37] <darsie> 1.4.2.2110
LinuxPlayer
L479[11:17:09]
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L480[11:17:23] <darsie> I can not place a
second maneuver once I clicked 36 times <+> on the first
maneuver.
L481[11:19:10] <darsie> sometimes
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L485[11:38:16] <darsie> Skydiving attitude
varies drag, but produces no lift anymore. I can't fine tune the
impact location that way.
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L489[11:54:04] <darsie> Does the dev team
pick up bug reports etc. from here?
L490[11:54:29] <Azander> Squad? No
L491[11:54:45] <Azander> Though someone
here may relay it to them for all I know
L492[11:55:10] <Althego> haha no
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L495[12:02:04] <darsie> It's the official
1.4.2 channel.
L496[12:02:20] <Althego> it is official,
because it is called so
L497[12:03:00] <Althego> i remember
taniwha fixed a bug for me that was in the system for a long time,
while he was working for them
L498[12:03:18] <Althego> but since then
there is no direct contact
L499[12:22:27] <UmbralRaptop> It's
Official because DamionRayne insisted, and devs were in here a few
times in 2012.
L500[12:23:02] <Althego> they could appear
at least one a month
L501[12:23:06] <Althego> that would be
nice
L502[12:23:29] <Althego> (while holding an
initech mug)
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L505[12:26:30] <UmbralRaptop> Yay,
coffee.
L506[12:27:01] <GurrenLagannCWP> Hi
Ezriilc!
L507[12:27:22] <Ezriilc> Hi!
L508[12:27:29] <Ezriilc> mmm...
coffee...
L509[12:28:11] <GurrenLagannCWP> How is
HyperEdit doing?
L510[12:28:32] <Ezriilc> Ha! Since
yesterday?
L511[12:28:42] <GurrenLagannCWP> Yep
L512[12:29:09] <Ezriilc> I need to do some
testing to see if our current code will work in KSP 1.4.2, as it
does in 1.4.1.
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L514[12:30:00] <GurrenLagannCWP> Ok, but
make it compartible with 1.3.1 because my pc cant run 1.42.2
:(
L515[12:30:11] <Althego> hehhe
L516[12:31:29] <GurrenLagannCWP> Althego:
ITS BECAUSE OF YOU THAT MADE 1.4.2 CRASH ON MY PC
L517[12:32:00] <Althego> no, i havent
worked for them in any way
L518[12:32:24] <Althego> if you see pilots
come out of a simlutaor session cursing, that may have been me
:)
L519[12:35:11] <GurrenLagannCWP> Ezriilc:
Also i have a unsused forum account
L520[12:39:47] <N70> woooo
L521[12:39:56] <N70> scatterer is bug-free
for KSP 1.4
L522[12:40:13] <N70> mostly at least
L523[12:40:21] <Althego> hehe
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L529[12:53:11] <Fluburtur> good news
everyone
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L532[12:55:35] <UmbralRaptop> \o/
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L535[12:56:24] <UmbralRaptop> what sort of
missiles? Trident D5s?
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L543[13:16:25] <kmath> YouTube - ATV-1
reentry
L544[13:16:39] <Althego> that was some
time ago
L545[13:16:58] <Althego> surely somebody
will film tiangong-1 too
L546[13:18:58] <darsie> yeah
L547[13:19:13] <Althego> (and dont call me
shirley)
L548[13:29:32] <Althego> hmm scott
video
L549[13:35:33] <Neal> ;wa convert 2765
Newton to Pound
L550[13:35:35] <kmath> Neal: convert 2765
N (newtons) to pounds-force: 621.6 lbf (pounds-force)
L551[13:37:10] <Neal> ;wa convert 1100n to
lb
L552[13:37:14] <kmath> Neal: Wolfram
couldn't understand your gibberish
L553[13:37:17] <Althego> hehe
L554[13:37:23] <Neal> ;wa convert 1100
newton to pound
L555[13:37:24] <kmath> Neal: convert 1100
N (newtons) to pounds-force: 247.3 lbf (pounds-force)
L556[13:37:25] <Neal> lame
L557[13:38:04] <Neal> I probably shouldn't
use balsa wood for this motor mount if it's gotta hold back a peak
force of 1100N
L558[13:39:00] <ConductorCat> It's a hard
wood though :3
L559[13:40:58] <Gasher> peak force of 110
kg? that seems to be high
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L561[13:42:13] <Althego> unless it is a
linear motor, it should be rather a torque
L562[13:42:19] <Althego> or is that the
weight of the motor?
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L566[13:44:51] <Gasher> i guess it's the
motor mass times the max acceleration
L567[13:47:35] <Neal> the motor is a few
kg
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L570[13:49:31] <Neal> I can launch rockets
past the sound barrier for less than the cost of my textbooks this
semester
L571[13:49:47] <Althego> hehe i remember
apogee as a game publisher
L572[13:50:25] <Neal> elon musk went from
making pc games to making rockets too
L573[13:50:25] <Althego> rocket
motor
L574[13:50:41] <Neal> crappy pc games...
but pc games nonetheless
L575[13:50:49] <Althego> meanwhile
fluburtur is trying to make these from scratch
L576[13:51:36] <Neal> I wish California
was more lenient with scratchbuilds
L577[13:51:57] <Neal> if it isn't
certified by the state fire marshall its illegal to fly, but you
can fire it on a test stand
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L580[13:53:33] <Neal> There is the BALLs
event in northern Nevada where they have airspace cleared to
120,000ft but that's a bit of a drive
L581[14:06:21] <KrazyKrl> yea, i'd like to
see a car that can drive to 120,000ft in altitude.
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L584[14:08:40] <darsie> Tesla
Roadster
L585[14:10:17] <Gasher> lol
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L592[14:13:17] <Althego> hehe
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L606[15:31:59] <FltAdmVonSpiz> 134,000t to
LEO for solar power stations.... that might be asking a bit
much
L607[15:32:59] <FltAdmVonSpiz> i love
studies from the 70s
L608[15:33:01] <FltAdmVonSpiz> so
optimistic
L609[15:33:19] <Rokker> FltAdmVonSpiz:
psh, that's not too bad
L610[15:34:16] <FltAdmVonSpiz> that does
produce a 185GWe solar power plant..... at up to 11 different
sites
L611[15:35:49] <Rokker> FltAdmVonSpiz:
imagine how much more power it would produce now
L612[15:36:02] <Rokker> with efficiency
increases
L613[15:36:18] <FltAdmVonSpiz> that is 15%
efficiency
L614[15:36:21] <FltAdmVonSpiz> so not too
far
L615[15:36:25] <FltAdmVonSpiz> the station
is on the ground
L616[15:36:37] <FltAdmVonSpiz> it
illuminates 11 1300km^2 spots on the surface continuously
L617[15:38:13] <Rokker> oh
L618[15:38:22] <Rokker> I was just
assuming solar panels in space
L619[15:38:31] <FltAdmVonSpiz> nah
L620[15:38:34] <FltAdmVonSpiz> panels are
heavy
L621[15:38:36] <FltAdmVonSpiz> lofting
solar sail fabric
L622[15:40:54] <FltAdmVonSpiz> we only
have to get the segments of the mirrors into a relatively low orbit
of a few hundred km
L623[15:40:59] <FltAdmVonSpiz> after that
they can solar sail to the 4000km deployment altitude
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L625[15:45:08] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but 2000
expendable Falcon Heavy launches is still far too much to be
feasible
L626[15:46:28] <FltAdmVonSpiz> even if
they get BFR to work it is still 800 launches
L627[15:50:23] <FltAdmVonSpiz> although
even at those launch costs the cost per kilowatt is somewhat
reasonable
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L629[15:54:53] <ConductorCat> :3
L630[15:59:14] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but it wuld
be eternal energy independence fr a UK sized nation, even with
Quebec levels of electricity use
L631[16:03:47] <Neal> until someone gets
jealous and fires a ballistic missile at it
L632[16:04:33] <FltAdmVonSpiz> at
what?
L633[16:04:56] <RandomJeb> eternal is a
bit optimistic
L634[16:05:22] <RandomJeb> even if you
manage to tend to the fusion reactor you're running on, keeping it
stable and operating, you'll run out of materials to feed into it
at some point
L635[16:09:27] <Neal> at some point you
amass so much waste iron from your fusion reactor that you have a
supernova in your powerplant and blow up the solar system
L636[16:09:36] <Neal> great job,
hero
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L641[16:11:49] <FltAdmVonSpiz> thats when
the stellar husbandry comes in
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L645[16:40:35] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but yeah,
thats the onl way to make space solar feasible I think
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L647[16:42:52] <Fluburtur> I know why my
gaming PC was printing badly
L648[16:42:56] <Fluburtur> bed level was
way off
L649[16:43:30] <Rokker> we are now within
the 24 hour zone for the main prediction of tiangong
L650[16:43:42] <Fluburtur> I still hope it
will fall on my house
L651[16:43:46] <darsie> expendable FH or
BFR is more expensive than reusable. I'm sure you can make smaller
panels than requiring expendable launches.
L652[16:43:59] <Rokker> Fluburtur: nah the
Chinese govt is too hard to sue if thst happens
L653[16:44:02] <Fluburtur> im only like
1000km north of the maximum predicted fall zone
L654[16:44:15] <FltAdmVonSpiz> I don't
have the figures for the actual LEO payload
L655[16:44:22] <FltAdmVonSpiz> on
recoverable mode
L656[16:44:30] <FltAdmVonSpiz> s I used
the 63.8t expendable payload
L657[16:44:32] <Fluburtur> actually I
order a lot of crap from china so that would be nice if they sent
me some free stuff
L658[16:45:33] <darsie> Bring a few less
panels per launch and pay 1/10th the price per launch.
L659[16:45:47] <FltAdmVonSpiz> I've not
seen figures for reusable falcon heavy
L660[16:45:53] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but I dubt
they are going to charge a tenth as much :P
L661[16:46:08] <darsie> For 800 launches
they might.
L662[16:46:35] <darsie> When are you going
to do this? In 1 year? Or in 10?
L663[16:46:43] <FltAdmVonSpiz> well ten I
imagine
L664[16:46:47] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but I am
trying to be conservative
L665[16:46:47] <darsie> BFR, then.
L666[16:47:46] <darsie> Or put it the
other way ... they'll charge 10 x the price for expendable.
L667[16:47:51] <Blaank> Wow, someone is
upset with spacex and is blocking imagery while in orbit.
L668[16:48:01] <darsie> ofc I made 10x
up.
L669[16:48:52] <darsie> And for a 800
launch contract you sure will get a nice price.
L670[16:49:15] <FltAdmVonSpiz> it was
assuming 150t payload for BFR
L671[16:49:21] <FltAdmVonSpiz> whichever
that is
L672[16:49:53] <FltAdmVonSpiz> I wonder if
800 launches is enough for construction localisation
L673[16:49:56] <darsie> A BFR is
expensive. Fuel is cheap.
L674[16:50:00] <Blaank> I don't know if
BFR has an expendible mode.
L675[16:51:00] <Blaank> You could save a
lot of mass on the way up by constructing things in orbit out of
raw materials and then you don't have to worry about dimenisions
and can make 30m long single piece beams of stuff.
L676[16:51:02] <FltAdmVonSpiz> 800
launches would require a dedicated launch site
L677[16:51:14] <Blaank> Instead of 5m long
segments with hinges.
L678[16:51:21] <FltAdmVonSpiz> then you
have to launch the manufacturing plant
L679[16:51:42] <darsie> Make a factory on
the Moon and launch from there, maybe with a mass driver.
L680[16:51:49] <Blaank> Yeah, it would be
a balance. Past a certain mass saved by not having folding stuff
you would have mass to cover the fabricator.
L681[16:51:49] <darsie> Or a sling
shot.
L682[16:52:07] <FltAdmVonSpiz> trying not
to posit massive space industry as a baseline
L683[16:52:19] <FltAdmVonSpiz> if it can
be done with direct launch, it can certainly be done with space
industry if you catch my meaning
L684[16:52:40] <Blaank> What raw materials
does the moon have to offer?
L685[16:52:51] <FltAdmVonSpiz> aluminium
to make mirrors from
L686[16:53:06] <Blaank> Aluminum is
nice.
L687[16:53:16] <Rokker> aluminum*
L688[16:53:42] <Rokker> where ever someone
says aluminium, I'll be there to give then the correct spelling. I
am pedantman
L689[16:53:47] <Blaank> You have the flex
fatigue to worry about.
L690[16:53:53] <FltAdmVonSpiz> IUPAC
*ACTIVATE*
L692[16:54:09] <Blaank> Aluminum is the
original spelling and aluminium was one guy trying to make it sound
cool.
L693[16:54:16] <Rokker> ^
L694[16:54:33] <Rokker> well alumium is
the original, but that's just dumb
L695[16:55:06] <darsie> I think aluminium
is to make it like other metals like sodium, thorium, uranium,
...
L696[16:55:08] <Fluburtur> aluminium
L697[16:55:12] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but in
either case
L698[16:55:16] <FltAdmVonSpiz> 800 BFR
launches is an awful lot
L699[16:55:21] <Blaank> Yes, he wanted it
to sound cool like all the other ium stuff at the time.
L700[16:55:31] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but SpaceX
probably wont want payload localisation which causes issues
L701[16:55:36] <Fluburtur> the bfr doesn't
exist yet even
L702[16:55:42] <Fluburtur> and they want
to launch 800
L703[16:55:43] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yeah
L704[16:55:44] <Blaank> Useful there would
be titanium, iron, aluminum, and silicon.
L705[16:55:47] <FltAdmVonSpiz> hence 200
falcon heavies
L706[16:55:49] <Fluburtur> it takes like
50 years to launch that much
L707[16:55:55] <Fluburtur> look at
soyuz
L708[16:55:56] <FltAdmVonSpiz> *2000
L709[16:56:14] <FltAdmVonSpiz> hasnt
really been a pressing need to launch that manyt hough has
there?
L710[16:56:16] <Blaank> Well I'm pretty
sure with enough cash they could launch a BFR each week.
L711[16:56:20] <FltAdmVonSpiz> if we
actually have a use for 2000 launchers
L712[16:56:26] <Rokker> darsie: like
platinium and lanthanium, and molybdenium?
L713[16:56:34] <Rokker> oh wait
L714[16:56:35] <darsie> no ;)
L715[16:57:03] <FltAdmVonSpiz> the primary
limitation on the ability to launch rockets is machine tools for
advanced manufacturing
L716[16:57:15] <FltAdmVonSpiz> rockets
don't consume significant amounts of rare raw materials
L717[16:57:22]
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L718[16:57:26] <Blaank> Question. How do
you catch 100kg sleds of cargo launched via railgun from the moon
to earth orbit?
L719[16:57:41] <FltAdmVonSpiz> put a cheap
fused regolith heat shield on them
L720[16:57:43] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and a
kicker motor
L721[16:57:54] <Blaank> No, I mean get
them to the construction station.
L722[16:57:58] <Blaank> That's in earth
orbit.
L723[16:58:09] <darsie> Blaank:
Aerobraking and raising periapsis with rocket?
L724[16:58:22] <Blaank> You could have
some dinky RCS on them. Cold gas type.
L725[16:58:31] <darsie> Or just lower
apoapsis with rocket.
L726[16:58:43] <Blaank> Rock heat shield
could soak up some of the apoapsis.
L727[16:58:47] <darsie> Or tether momentum
exchange. Recharges tethers.
L728[16:58:48] <Blaank> It'd be a
pain.
L729[16:59:11] <Blaank> Cargo shuttles
might make more sense at that point.
L730[16:59:17] <Blaank> Lot more
controllable.
L731[16:59:32] <darsie> Just another word
for rocket.
L732[16:59:34] <FltAdmVonSpiz> launch it
out of the Moon SOI with the railgun
L733[16:59:38] <FltAdmVonSpiz> then use an
ion or arcjet tug
L734[16:59:39] <Rokker> Blaank: as I
understand it the plan is usually to still use a kicker upper
stage
L735[16:59:42] <darsie> Anyways, lower
delta-v from the Moon.
L736[17:00:05] <Blaank> Ok, moon to earth
orbit will have lower dV than earth to earth orbit.
L737[17:00:14] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yeah but
making mirrors on the moon is not going to be cheap
L738[17:00:20] <FltAdmVonSpiz> compared to
making them in a shed somewhere
L739[17:00:27] <Blaank> And self
sustaining moon base should be possible. I don't think there is
anything on earth that isn't on the moon.
L740[17:00:33] <darsie> No need for a
vacuum chamber ;).
L741[17:00:39]
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L742[17:00:57] <Supernovy> Evening,
Gentlemen.
L743[17:01:10] <darsie> Night,
Gentlewomen.
L744[17:01:36] <FltAdmVonSpiz> no need for
a pressure vessel to keep your staff alive on Earth :P
L745[17:01:48] <Blaank> I'm just sort of
wondering how this magical cargo railgun actually gets captured
once it reaches destination. If it has to contain it's own guidance
and propulsion and communication and power generation systems, that
eats a ton of the payload.
L746[17:01:57] <darsie> Use self
replicating machines ;).
L747[17:02:37] <FltAdmVonSpiz> seems
rather drastic
L748[17:02:37] <FltAdmVonSpiz> 300 billion
dollars for 2000 expendable Falcons is a not but not big enough for
that to be worhth it :P
L749[17:03:19] <darsie> I'm sorry, I
missed the beginning of the thread. Why expendable?
L750[17:03:30] <darsie> Do you have large
chunks that can't be broken up?
L751[17:04:29] <Blaank> Also keep in mind
that end of life falcons aren't much more expensive in expendable
than reusable modes.
L752[17:04:44] <Blaank> Since it's the
last useful launch, it's going to be scrapped anyway.
L753[17:05:03] <FltAdmVonSpiz> darsie: no,
its just noone has good figures for LEO payload/cost for a reusable
launch
L754[17:05:12] <FltAdmVonSpiz> found $150m
and 63,800kg to LEO for expendable
L755[17:06:12] <darsie> Go with 50 t for
reusable, then.
L756[17:06:58] <darsie> You might get
better answers in #space@freenode
L757[17:07:01] ⇦
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L758[17:07:07] <darsie> and be on topic
;)
L759[17:07:56] <FltAdmVonSpiz> :(
L760[17:08:10] <darsie> sorry, I didn't
mean to bring you down.
L761[17:11:25] <Kalpa> Blaank: Easy, you
build a receiver station of course
L762[17:12:45] <Kalpa> A series of
receiver satellites, basicly giant electromagnets that you aim the
railgun-payload (mass driver cargo pod) precisely towards
L763[17:13:38] <Blaank> That requires the
payload to have guidance or to externally adjust it's
trajectory.
L764[17:13:41] <Kalpa> And they will try
and slow the mass packet down
L765[17:13:45] <Blaank> You could adjust
it's aim by lasering it.
L766[17:14:28] <Kalpa> No, that just
requires advanced calculations for precision. Naturally fine-tuning
will be done on the receiver side, ie. they will adjust their
orbits to intercept the mass packet
L767[17:14:56] <Blaank> earth based
electric tether things to raise and lower altitude with electricty
would be helpful there as slowing down the package would impart
momentum on you. You could actually have it push you prograde and
then recover electricty by using the tethers to give you electricty
and lower your apoapsis back to normal.
L768[17:15:07] <Kalpa> Although I'm not
entirely sure what the use of this would be, the stations would
need to be resupplied with fuel eventually as every capture would
expend their own inertia when they slow down the mass packet
L769[17:15:29] <Blaank> You can raise and
lower with the electronic tethers interacting with earth's magnetic
field.
L770[17:15:41] <Blaank> Also you can
alternate catching packets retrograde and prograde.
L771[17:15:59] <Kalpa> That's actually a
good idea. Didn't even think of it myself.
L772[17:16:02] <Blaank> Timing it right
you should be able to balance out orbits entirely from catching
packets though it could reduce throughput.
L773[17:16:35] <darsie> Kalpa: Slowing
mass from moon would add energy to LEO tethers.
L774[17:16:50] ⇦
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L776[17:16:59] <Blaank> So we are looking
at magnetic catcher mitts.
L777[17:17:34] <Blaank> With tethes and
electircty flowing through them interacting with earth's magnetic
field to adjust altitude and balancing the catching throughout a
month to keep orbits mostly stable.
L778[17:17:55] <Blaank> That would allow a
single factory station to catch packets from the moon.
L779[17:18:13] <FltAdmVonSpiz> .... you
could put a magcoil tether on the payload
L780[17:18:20] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and drop it
into a highly elliptical orbit
L781[17:18:21] <Blaank> I'd suggest fine
tuning of incoming packet orbit be done with laser ablation or
reflection.
L782[17:18:29] <FltAdmVonSpiz> it cna
thrust against the earth's magnetic field
L783[17:19:10] <Blaank> I think you'd save
more mass by a direct capture than sacrificing payload for the
magcoil tether.
L784[17:19:36] <Blaank> Ideally it would
be a completely inert packet with no guidance, comms, power, or
propulsion.
L785[17:19:55] <Eddi|zuHause> 800 launches
in 10 years is still almost 2 launches per week
L786[17:20:01] <Blaank> jesus
L787[17:20:10] <Blaank> megalifter
time?
L788[17:20:17] <Kalpa> Ultimately you'd
want to construct a... this thing has been named after some guy I'm
pretty sure, but you'd want to construct an artificial ring around
Earth's equator, tall enough that the top end would be above
atmosphere and whatnot, but that's kinda 1000 years from now and
mostly scifi at this point
L789[17:20:24] <Blaank> Or dump enough
money and do daily launches.
L790[17:21:03] <Kalpa> And then you'd
handle all space<->planet transactions through that
construction
L791[17:21:25] <Eddi|zuHause> a ring
around the equator in 200km-ish height? what kind of material
should that be made of?
L792[17:21:30] <darsie> Kalpa: Orbital
ring.
L794[17:21:55] <Eddi|zuHause> i can't
imagine that being a stable construction
L796[17:23:07] <kmath> YouTube -
"Return to Slime" except its a bad kazoo cover
L797[17:23:08] <FltAdmVonSpiz> 2000 Falcon
Heavy, 800 BFR or several hundred of those ILS things
L798[17:23:25] <FltAdmVonSpiz> I supose
there is always Sea Dragon
L799[17:23:41] <Blaank> Oh, the 800 is
with BFR.
L800[17:24:24] <FltAdmVonSpiz> the target
paylad mass is something on order of 135kT
L801[17:24:29] <FltAdmVonSpiz> into a 50
degree or so inclined orbit
L802[17:27:29] <FltAdmVonSpiz> 260
expendable ILS launches
L803[17:30:08] <Eddi|zuHause> if we're
still talking about satellites with solar sails, i imagine they're
not actually all that heavy individually, and unfold in space, so
also don't have much volume. then i think 2000 small lauches are
better than 260 huge ones
L804[17:30:48] <Eddi|zuHause> you can then
also distribute the launches across multiple companies and launch
sites
L805[17:35:40]
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L806[17:36:57] <Draconiator> I don't even
know if we can mass produce carbon nanotubes yet....
L807[17:37:48] <FltAdmVonSpiz> Falcon
Heavy is a small launch now :D
L808[17:38:55] <Blaank> Last I heard the
nanotubes were short and random widths and sometimes nested.
L809[17:39:03] <Blaank> And sometimes
twisted.
L810[17:42:14] <KrazyKrl> I'm looking
forward to the next 50 years having "YOU MAY BE ENTITLED TO
CARBON NANOTUBE COMPENSATION" advertisements.
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L812[17:50:22] <FltAdmVonSpiz> clearly
what we need is Sea Dragon
L813[17:50:39] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but it
desnt fit the rocketry obsession with hyprtech
L814[18:02:02]
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L817[18:08:48] <Blaank> What, raw
power?
L818[18:09:04] <Blaank> Wasn't it just
bigger engines and more fuel?
L819[18:11:03] ⇦
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L820[18:13:06]
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L821[18:14:40] <FltAdmVonSpiz> well it was
supposed to be able t launch fiive hundred tonnes to LEO
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L823[18:16:03] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and if you
want to loft 150kT to orbit
L824[18:16:09] ⇦
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L825[18:17:43] ***
XXCoder is now known as Rolf
L826[18:19:46] ⇦
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L827[18:19:47] <Blaank> It's disposable
and also a gas guzzler, right?
L828[18:26:26] <UmbralRaptor> Lately every
time I hear "reusability", I think of how the highest
mass uncontrolled reentry was STS-107. (~25% more massive than
Skylab!)
L829[18:35:14] <GurrenLagannCWP> Ezriilc:
I found a bug on HyperEdit
L830[18:35:56] <Ezriilc> OK! Is it related
to any of our issues on GitHub?
L831[18:37:15] <GurrenLagannCWP> While
editing the all planets's orbits to orbit around Kerbin, their SOI
wont change
L832[18:37:47] <GurrenLagannCWP> That
means i will get a encounter with Tylo EVERYWHERE
L833[18:38:30] <Ezriilc> Well, doing stuff
like that is bound to destroy the universe.
L834[18:39:51] <GurrenLagannCWP> And the
kraken may arrive
L835[18:40:21] <Ezriilc> Yep. I've PM'ed
you in IRC.
L836[18:40:21] <GurrenLagannCWP> Well, i
got a Laythe-Kerbin-Vall trajectory
L837[18:40:34] <GurrenLagannCWP> so its
not always a problem
L838[18:41:03] ⇦
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L840[19:02:47] <N70> hey guys
L841[19:02:51] <N70> if you have
mods
L842[19:02:57] <GurrenLagannCWP> Hey
N70
L843[19:03:00] <N70> add the command line
arguments "-nyan-nyan -ncats" to KSP
L844[19:03:03] <N70> you won't regret
it
L846[19:04:43] <Ezriilc> What a
mess!
L847[19:05:30] <GurrenLagannCWP> All in 34
Kerbin days
L848[19:06:19] ⇦
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L850[19:07:25] <GurrenLagannCWP> 3.4 Mm
for Laythe, 3 Mm for Vall and 12.5 Mm for Moho
L851[19:09:50]
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L852[19:10:23] <GurrenLagannCWP> Ike is
also around Kerbin, but very close to it
L854[19:23:32] <GurrenLagannCWP> lol i now
made a suicide encounter with Eve that plunges me below Jool's
"surface"
L855[19:25:48] <GurrenLagannCWP> aaaaand a
Kerbin-Moho-Kerbin-Duna tour
L856[19:25:58] <GurrenLagannCWP> has
arrived
L857[19:31:30] <GurrenLagannCWP> 57
unknown objects
L858[19:34:32] <GurrenLagannCWP> the mess
crashed my game
L859[19:34:39]
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L862[19:58:58]
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L863[19:59:00] <Scolar_Visari> Sons and
daughters of Kerbin: I have a wormhole that reaches across
space-time and I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!
L864[19:59:48]
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L865[20:00:10] <FltAdmVonSpiz> now if only
real life was like KSP, where a pad can be used five minutes after
the rprevious launch
L866[20:00:14] <FltAdmVonSpiz> as soon as
it clears the atmosphere
L867[20:01:01] <Scolar_Visari>
FltAdmVonSpiz: Well . . . I suppose if you're using storable
propellents you could do that?
L868[20:01:25] <FltAdmVonSpiz> maneuvering
thousand tonne rockets around is somewhat... problematic
L869[20:01:28] <Scolar_Visari> Or, ahem,
launching nano-sat payloads from a submarine via a modified
SLBM.
L870[20:01:40] <FltAdmVonSpiz> the idea of
a swing arm launcher for Falcon would be fun
L871[20:01:43] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but
rather.... enrmous
L872[20:02:00] *
Scolar_Visari notes at least two satellites have been launched into
orbit via submarines.
L873[20:04:36] <Scolar_Visari> Rather than
reduce turnaround times for launch pads, just employ lots of launch
pads.
L874[20:05:27] ⇦
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L875[20:06:21] *
Scolar_Visari could actually see a use for having submarines
carrying at least one orbital launch rocket for deploying tactical
satellites like Kestrel Eye.
L876[20:08:15] <FltAdmVonSpiz> also I have
to assume barge recovery of stages downrange has a far lower effect
on payload than returning stages to the launch site?
L877[20:08:27] <FltAdmVonSpiz> as the
stage just has to kill its orbital velocity and not reverse its
trajectory
L878[20:08:35] <Scolar_Visari> Yes, but it
can also be inconvenient if there are rough seas.
L879[20:08:47] <Scolar_Visari> Barges are
not terribly seaworthy.
L880[20:09:41] <Scolar_Visari> It should
also increase turnaround times and costs, though not *too* much
given how cheap it is to ship things on the water; excluding added
infrastructure.
L881[20:09:43] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yeah, but
if you could find a setup
L882[20:09:52] <FltAdmVonSpiz> you might
be able to find a range with a small uninhabited island in the
right position
L883[20:10:46] <Scolar_Visari> You'd still
need to set it up for shipping. Small islands tend to lack proper
harbors!
L884[20:11:10] *
Scolar_Visari mutters something about having proper gliding
boosters.
L885[20:13:16] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yeah
L886[20:13:30] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but a
landing site made of concrete has the advantage of not rolling in
every direction
L887[20:13:37] <FltAdmVonSpiz> like that
Ariane thing?
L888[20:14:40] <Scolar_Visari> I was
thinking of early STS concepts and some Energia booster
swing-wings.
L891[20:23:35] <FltAdmVonSpiz> also
realised my solar proposal would require 20,000 square kilometres
of solar sail fabric
L892[20:23:40] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yeah
L893[20:24:26] <Scolar_Visari> Psht can be
done.
L894[20:24:42] <Scolar_Visari> Or just use
a laser with greater energy density to reduce sail size.
L895[20:25:06] <UmbralRaptor> ;wa
(20e3)^0.5
L896[20:25:07] <kmath> UmbralRaptor:
(20×10^3)^(1/2): 100 sqrt(2)
L897[20:25:36] <UmbralRaptor> 141 km on a
side. No big deal.
L898[20:27:35]
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L899[20:30:45] <Scolar_Visari> We'll just
need some funding to develop a way of reliably folding and
unfolding the sail.
L900[20:31:07] *
Scolar_Visari is envisioning vac-suited origami
masters.
L901[20:31:35] <SnoopJeDi> if the sail is
truly made by masters, having tabs that perform it under tension
should be straightforward
L902[20:31:53] <SnoopJeDi> (*pending
sufficiently magical construction materials)
L903[20:32:07] ⇦
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L904[20:32:29] <Scolar_Visari> You could
have rigid supports underneath. Just don't expect it to have an
acceptable mass-to-thrust ratio afterwards!
L905[20:32:29] <UmbralRaptor> +1 solar
sail of swiftness
L906[20:34:08] <Scolar_Visari> Just watch
out for that penalty against arrows.
L907[20:36:41] <FltAdmVonSpiz> actually
only wanting to build mirrors for use on orbit
L908[20:36:42] <Scolar_Visari> Also: Why
do you *need* a Solar Sail? Do you have something against the
Rocket Equation?
L909[20:36:46] <FltAdmVonSpiz> :P
L910[20:36:53] <FltAdmVonSpiz> its 27 830
square kilometre mirrors
L911[20:37:00] <Scolar_Visari> Oh, well
then, weight isn't too much a concern if you're not launching form
Earth.
L912[20:37:17] <FltAdmVonSpiz> ... yeah, I
am proposing to
L913[20:37:29] <FltAdmVonSpiz> 135 kiloton
of mirror
L914[20:37:37] <Scolar_Visari> Sounds
legit.
L915[20:37:55] <Scolar_Visari> Just make
sure to polish them off every now and then
L916[20:40:25] <FltAdmVonSpiz> hey 300
billion dollars for a 185GWe constant output solar plant aint that
bad
L917[20:41:23] <Scolar_Visari> You could
also offer space on board the platforms for stuff that would've
previously required GEO satellites.
L918[20:41:25] <bees> FltAdmVonSpiz: did
you mean 185GWe constant output of death rays?
L919[20:41:43] <bees> FltAdmVonSpiz: i
think it would violate several treaties about weapons of mass
destruction
L920[20:42:04] <FltAdmVonSpiz> nah, it
would just illuminate between 1 and 11 1300km^2 spots on the
surface at one solar equivalent, 24/7
L921[20:42:15] <FltAdmVonSpiz> each spot
would be covered in power plants or whatever and produce up to
185GWe per spot
L922[20:46:04] <Scolar_Visari> Besides, if
you want WMDs, that's a rather expensive, vulnerable way of doing
it.
L923[20:46:27] <FltAdmVonSpiz> about the
only thing you might be able to do is psychological warfare
L924[20:46:33] <FltAdmVonSpiz> on people
distant from you
L925[20:46:37] *
Scolar_Visari imagines an orbital Death Mirror getting hosed down
by surplus Nickelodeon slime.
L926[20:46:39] <FltAdmVonSpiz> by turning
the mirror on and lighting up their capital 24/7
L927[20:47:00] <FltAdmVonSpiz> i wonder
what that would do to the weather
L928[20:47:02] <Scolar_Visari>
FltAdmVonSpiz: Depending on where they live, that might not be so
bad. London might award you a medal!
L929[20:47:05] <FltAdmVonSpiz> anyway
g'night
L930[20:47:12] <FltAdmVonSpiz> oh god it
would be too warm
L931[20:47:40] <Scolar_Visari> Yes, but it
might get rid of that persistant cloud cover!
L932[20:47:59] <Scolar_Visari> You'd be
forever known as the organism that brought the Sun to grey
England!
L934[20:55:03] ⇦
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L935[20:58:01] <Scolar_Visari> It'd be
rather funny if there's some overlap with the Flat Earth crowd
there.
L936[20:58:59] <UmbralRaptor> blink
L937[20:59:59] <Scolar_Visari>
UmbralRaptor: The same web site's projecting that SpaceX will get
tens of thousands of people to Mars sooner rather than later when
they get antigravity technology, so it all seems okay.
L938[21:04:32] <UmbralRaptor> Wow, that
site is, uh…
L939[21:05:42] <Scolar_Visari> What, you
think a website would LIE!?
L940[21:05:48] <Scolar_Visari> You sheeple
simply can't handle the truth!
L941[21:08:58] <UmbralRaptor> Let's go
with the world that they present is way more exciting than the one
we live in?
L942[21:12:28] <Scolar_Visari> Exciting or
absolutely terrifying? I mean, one would think people would notice
two armadas of spaceships duking it out in orbit!
L943[21:13:12] <Scolar_Visari> It's not
like they'd be cloaked or anything given that one person with a
Geocities-grade website noticed.
L944[21:13:17] ⇦
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L945[21:15:00] <Scolar_Visari> "The
US Navy's Secret Space Program and Nordic Extraterrestrial
Alliance"
L946[21:15:53] <Scolar_Visari> 150
customer reviews? What on Earth?
L947[21:16:17] *
UmbralRaptor blames the venusians.
L948[21:18:51] <TheKosmonaut> To
Asgard!
L949[21:22:06] <Scolar_Visari>
"Everything or most everything humanity needs to know about
aliens and their interaction with modern humanity is found in this
book. Buy it. Read it in depth. Then prepare to spend days in deep
thought digesting what you will learn."
L950[21:22:15] <Scolar_Visari> I have a
funny feeling these reviews aren't quite Kosher.
L951[21:23:36] <Scolar_Visari> "Some
of the lesser rated reviews seem obsessed with their belief that
much of what the author is saying cannot be documented (or proven).
Isn't that the point? If any of this information could be
established with any degree of certainty, there would be no need
for such investigations."
L952[21:23:51] <Scolar_Visari> I don't
think they know how investigations work.
L953[21:31:25]
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L955[21:36:14] <Scolar_Visari> "Good
book on exopolitics. I didn't realize the Navy was this involved in
space. It makes sense now that I think about how Star Trek and BSG
both had naval influences."
L956[21:42:48] ⇦
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L957[21:43:43] <Scolar_Visari>
"Mind-boggling information in this book. I would also say some
of this information could be incorrect. But. I think 75-90% of it
is correct. Do I have any proof. No. But, again. The deep state
government has been lying to us for 80 years or more."
L958[21:48:22] <Eddi|zuHause> anyone tried
this new game "Path of Exile: Royale" yet? i hear it got
all the hype.
L959[21:49:00] <Scolar_Visari> Never even
heard of it.
L960[21:49:59] <Scolar_Visari> All those
action RPGs look the same.
L961[21:56:28] <UmbralRaptor> path of
exile is that game that gets called diablo, but with way more
stuff, right?
L962[21:56:55] <Scolar_Visari>
"Antarctica's Hidden History: Corporate Foundations of Secret
Space Programs"
L963[21:57:02] <Scolar_Visari>
UmbralRaptor: So point and click and yawn genre?
L964[21:57:51] <UmbralRaptor> I'd
disagree. well, until the only thing left is better loot.
L965[21:59:47] <Eddi|zuHause>
UmbralRaptor: well not anymore, it's now a pubg clone :p
L966[22:00:52] <Eddi|zuHause>
Scolar_Visari: it has a crazily complex skill system, so lots of
variety
L967[22:01:13] ⇦
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L968[22:04:15] *
Scolar_Visari seems to recall Kingdoms of Amalur having a fun skill
system.
L969[22:04:28] <Scolar_Visari> Mandatory
multi-classing please.
L970[22:05:08] <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't
even come close
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L973[22:08:26] <Eddi|zuHause> ok, that was
fun... played for like 30 seconds, got 5fps, get killed, and then
the game server goes completely down
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L975[22:13:11] <Scolar_Visari> We also
need more games with combat that's not simply point-and-click.
Also: Less bikini chainmail thankyouverymuch.
L976[22:19:03] *
Scolar_Visari ponders why more developers haven't looked into using
actual Medieval fighting manuals for inspiration.
L977[22:20:25] <Scolar_Visari> Like, have
a bullet-time mode for chosing one of several
parrying/counterstroke moves or switch styles when sword fighting
armored opponents.
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L983[23:02:33] ***
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L990[23:39:33] <Draconiator> The hell?
they made up another -fi term...
L991[23:39:41] <Draconiator> Li-Fi
means...what exactly?
L992[23:40:16] <Rolf> literally fi
L994[23:48:55] ⇦
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L996[23:56:21] <Althego> what
L997[23:56:36] ⇦
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L998[23:56:57] <Eddi|zuHause>
Linux-Fidelity?
L999[23:57:21] <Rolf>
little-fidelity