OCLogs: 2018-02-07.log

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L1[00:00:03] <TheKosmonaut> mmm..

L2[00:00:27] <TheKosmonaut> hit the surface at about 70 m/s

L3[00:00:39] <TheKosmonaut> Should have switched on the outer engines

L4[00:01:22] <taniwha> 252km/h

L5[00:01:23] <TheKosmonaut> will try one more time, with less boomboom

L6[00:01:47] <TheKosmonaut> There's probably too much mass in S2

L7[00:01:51] <TheKosmonaut> I could do with a smaller upper stage

L8[00:02:04] <TheKosmonaut> I wouldnt do a barge landing, not that good

L9[00:02:12] <TheKosmonaut> But it's definitely capable

L10[00:02:24] <Pakaran> one contract just wants a crew report above 26 km, no upper limit. so this should work quite well, and cheaply. https://imgur.com/a/jRgTD

L11[00:02:24] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/WKwUhgG.jpg

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L13[00:06:55] <TheKosmonaut> taniwha: second attempt was 20 m/s then the engines cut out :/

L14[00:07:01] <TheKosmonaut> The legs are rather weak

L15[00:07:14] <TheKosmonaut> what's that.. .like 72 km/h

L16[00:07:36] <TheKosmonaut> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/l0VK5gRe/screenshot189.png

L17[00:07:45] <TheKosmonaut> I landed on the legs but they crumpled

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L19[00:08:34] <taniwha> yeah, 20m/s = 72km/h

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L21[00:08:46] <taniwha> x3.6 for m/s to km/h

L22[00:09:03] <taniwha> x2.25 for mph

L23[00:09:22] <taniwha> x2 for knots

L24[00:09:37] <taniwha> (close enough)

L25[00:10:56] <TheKosmonaut> If I had just another second of thrust

L26[00:11:00] <TheKosmonaut> I would have landed, I think

L27[00:11:21] <TheKosmonaut> Mechjeb probably would do the suicide burn properly

L28[00:11:23] <Pakaran> crew report collected (albeit very high up). Jeb just got a bit of reentry heating.

L29[00:14:22] <BadRocketsCo> TheKosmonaut: how are the kiddos doing?

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L33[00:18:57] <BadRocketsCo> Sorry, I just realised that you may not want to talk about that in the channel...

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L35[00:19:30] <TheKosmonaut> Aw drats... Crashed again

L36[00:19:33] <TheKosmonaut> BadRocketsCo: They're great!

L37[00:20:23] <TheKosmonaut> The oldest one watched the FH video and said "ohh rokketo"

L38[00:20:27] <TheKosmonaut> roketto*

L39[00:22:04] <Althego> hehe the video from the car is still amazing

L40[00:22:43] <Althego> too bad it is not streaming anymore

L41[00:23:31] <umaxtu> you can download 4 hours of footage from periscope using youtube-dl

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L43[00:24:12] <umaxtu> be warned that it downloads it as over 1600 seperate files, merges them but doesn't delete them

L44[00:24:21] <Althego> lol

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L50[00:39:29] <BadRocketsCo> TheKosmonaut: hehe, aww

L51[00:39:38] <BadRocketsCo> Young rocket scientist in making

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L53[00:40:09] <taniwha> need to show my kids when they get home

L54[00:40:28] <taniwha> trouble is, I tend to get "moo ii ka?"

L55[00:44:58] <Althego> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/399309813713993730/410589487106883594/image.jpg

L56[00:45:25] <Althego> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/399309813713993730/410581351532724224/image.jpg

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L58[00:46:01] <taniwha> first is better

L59[00:46:53] <Althego> the dude, where is my care was also good

L60[00:46:57] <Althego> -e

L61[00:48:34] <Althego> https://i.imgur.com/BEnpAeD.jpg

L62[00:49:06] <taniwha> heh

L63[00:49:43] <TheKosmonaut> Ha.

L64[00:49:58] <TheKosmonaut> Now I gotta listen to David Bowie again

L65[00:50:01] <TheKosmonaut> SAILORS

L66[00:50:05] <TheKosmonaut> Fighting in the dance hall

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L68[00:52:24] <BadRocketsCo> Heh

L69[00:52:36] <BadRocketsCo> What is the song that they're playing in the stream btw?

L70[00:52:59] <Althego> which stream

L71[00:53:13] <BadRocketsCo> The SpaceX stream where they show the car

L72[00:53:39] <Althego> was there any music?

L73[00:53:45] <BadRocketsCo> Ye

L74[00:54:00] <Althego> i thought it was coming from the other video i was klistening to in the background

L75[00:54:22] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KORTP545vAc

L76[00:54:22] <kmath> YouTube - LIVE: Space X News Conference after SUCCESSFUL Falcon Heavy Launch, Most Powerful Rocket

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L78[01:00:52] <taniwha> BadRocketsCo: I think the music is Star Man

L79[01:01:05] <taniwha> (launch vid)

L80[01:01:10] <BadRocketsCo> Ah, okay

L81[01:01:14] <tawny> they played Life On Mars at one point

L82[01:01:24] <tawny> but I think they also played Starman after it landed

L83[01:01:25] <Althego> at least they said it was going to be starman

L84[01:01:38] <taniwha> was certainly Bowie

L85[01:02:57] <Althego> lol one of the reportes mentioned dude where is my car

L86[01:04:41] <Althego> what, bfr next year???

L87[01:04:59] <BadRocketsCo> NEXT year?

L88[01:05:06] <BadRocketsCo> Really?

L89[01:05:15] <Althego> not the whole rocket, just the top part

L90[01:05:15] <BadRocketsCo> Bro

L91[01:05:21] <Althego> how is that even possible

L92[01:05:22] <BadRocketsCo> Oooh, okay

L93[01:05:29] <BadRocketsCo> Still though, awesome

L94[01:05:37] <Althego> ok, he said, maybe next year

L95[01:06:10] <Althego> hhe meant hopper tests, so short flight and landing

L96[01:06:11] <TheKosmonaut> taniwha: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WfjAS60t/Screen%20Shot%202018-02-07%20at%204.05.11%20PM.png

L97[01:06:15] <TheKosmonaut> I keep messing up

L98[01:06:25] <TheKosmonaut> But there's the flight recorder from MECO and Sep

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L101[01:08:55] <Althego> hehe reentry heating scales with the eighth power of speed, that is what he said

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L103[01:09:15] <Althego> so they start with the ship part, because that is the hardest, heat shield for hyperbolic velocities

L104[01:09:33] <TheKosmonaut> I've invested more time in thsi than I would like

L105[01:09:42] <TheKosmonaut> This isnt even in a save I am playing.

L106[01:09:59] <Althego> hah the spacesuite

L107[01:10:05] <Althego> production design

L108[01:10:46] <Althego> hehe hard to make a spacesuite that works and looks good

L109[01:11:00] <Althego> he answer if it was pressurized

L110[01:11:03] <taniwha> sounded like it was being qualified as a side project

L111[01:11:31] <Althego> yes he said that

L112[01:12:53] <TheKosmonaut> If no one creates a Roadster model mod for KSP i will be disappointed in the community

L113[01:14:05] <taniwha> I imagine someone already has blender (or other) open already

L114[01:15:31] <Althego> what, why wasnt it ou talready?

L115[01:16:01] <taniwha> the chat section is silly

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L117[01:27:28] <Glass|phone> https://twitter.com/technojumbo747/status/961078533584928771

L118[01:27:29] <kmath> <technojumbo747> ??????????????? https://t.co/iA5xqgClJm

L119[01:33:41] <Althego> why influenza?

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L122[01:52:00] <TheKosmonaut> A play on Lufthansa Althego

L123[01:52:07] <TheKosmonaut> judging by the logo

L124[01:53:19] <Truga> yeah

L125[01:54:24] <Althego> i see that

L126[01:54:29] <Althego> but what is the joke?

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L128[01:54:41] <Althego> it seems completely unrelated

L129[01:54:42] <Truga> it rhymes

L130[01:56:58] <Pakaran> Well, TOURS orbital version appears successful. As an experiment, this one also carries a snack container, so tourists don't end up, erm, becoming tourists after they get hungry. They're all going into LKO anyhow, but incremental improvement is fun.

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L144[03:25:09] <Gasher[work]> another failed attempt at asteroid retrieval

L145[03:25:10] <Gasher[work]> https://i.imgur.com/amqNCJc.png

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L147[03:34:04] <Mat2ch> we need stock hinges?

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L149[03:42:51] <Gasher[work]> Mat2ch, winch would be enough

L150[03:43:17] <Gasher[work]> hmmm, makes me thing of another solution

L151[03:43:21] <Gasher[work]> * think

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L154[03:48:42] <Fluburtur> did the transfer burn work?

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L156[03:57:45] <Fluburtur> https://78.media.tumblr.com/bc18272e539100e6199b94a750d31a25/tumblr_inline_omo6gxZl3h1tu9u6o_540.jpg

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L158[04:22:17] <Fluburtur> apparently they overshot mars

L159[04:22:29] <Fluburtur> they ned to f9 to before the burn

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L165[04:40:51] <Mat2ch> https://imgur.com/gallery/QjvMW :D

L166[04:40:51] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/dmF5CaU.png

L167[04:43:30] <Althego> lol

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L169[04:45:23] <Fluburtur> hunger

L170[04:46:21] <Althego> games

L171[04:46:26] <Althego> ball

L172[04:46:27] <Althego> food

L173[04:47:02] <Fluburtur> uuuh

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L175[04:48:12] <Fluburtur> where is video of kaboom

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L177[04:52:10] * Mat2ch too

L178[04:52:19] <Mat2ch> But I'm not sure what I wanna cook

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L181[05:04:30] *** Mead is now known as Guest24218

L182[05:06:19] <Fluburtur> it is snowing here

L183[05:06:24] <Fluburtur> we got like 5cm

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L185[05:09:11] <Mat2ch> Sunshine!

L186[05:09:19] <Mat2ch> But still no idea what to cook

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L188[05:09:28] <Mat2ch> I may go for some potatos and scrambled eggs

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L190[05:23:58] <Fluburtur> potatoes with cheese and lardon is good

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L192[05:28:39] <Mat2ch> lardon?

L193[05:28:47] <Mat2ch> Hm, never tried potatoes with cheese

L194[05:29:04] <Fluburtur> little pieces of meat

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L196[05:29:11] <Mat2ch> except in a gratin

L197[05:33:09] <snow> never had cheese on baked potatoes?

L198[05:33:12] <snow> you haven't lived

L199[05:33:39] <Gasher[work]> gross

L200[05:33:55] <Gasher[work]> at least define what kind of cheese should go there

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L203[05:53:41] <taniwha> all sorts of cheese should go there

L204[05:55:14] <Gasher[work]> i object

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L207[06:02:56] <taniwha> your loss

L208[06:06:10] <Gasher[work]> even that smelly french cheese?

L209[06:06:30] <Fluburtur> the more smelly the better

L210[06:07:02] <Gasher[work]> yikes

L211[06:07:05] <taniwha> Gasher[work]: if you happen to like the cheese

L212[06:07:08] <Althego> hehe

L213[06:07:17] <Gasher[work]> it depends really.

L214[06:07:20] <Gasher[work]> damn

L215[06:07:56] <Gasher[work]> it's taht kind of thing that i think i detest, then i eat a piece then i crave more even though it tastes weird

L216[06:08:07] <Gasher[work]> but i still have to stop myself from eating that

L217[06:09:06] <taniwha> why stop yourself?

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L220[06:11:51] <Gasher[work]> because after a certain amount i don't feel well

L221[06:12:12] <Gasher[work]> and mouth and tongue feel abused by its taste and smell

L222[06:12:48] <taniwha> good reason

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L233[07:40:15] <Gasher[work]> https://i.imgur.com/fmXtUID.jpg

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L238[08:05:08] <RandomJeb> so they missed mars?

L239[08:05:16] <Fluburtur> yeah

L240[08:05:23] <Fluburtur> going straight for the asteroids belt

L241[08:05:44] <RandomJeb> lame

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L243[08:05:55] <BPlayer> "Missed"?

L244[08:06:05] <Fluburtur> engine worked too well

L245[08:06:13] <BPlayer> Huh?

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L247[08:07:04] <Fluburtur> burned too much I think

L248[08:07:20] <Mat2ch> Vid or never, oh, you know the drill. :D

L249[08:07:22] <Fluburtur> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/961083704230674438

L250[08:07:22] <kmath> <elonmusk> Third burn successful. Exceeded Mars orbit and kept going to the Asteroid Belt. https://t.co/bKhRN73WHF

L251[08:07:39] <darsie> I don't think they even aimed for Mars. Just at Mars' solar orbit.

L252[08:08:17] <Fluburtur> hot damn https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVYxQvKV4AA52_J.jpg

L253[08:08:56] <RandomJeb> they aimed for a lower apoapsis than they got

L254[08:09:23] <Fluburtur> well I have to go get a train

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L256[08:11:33] <BPlayer> But, I mean... /this/ much can't be an error in the burn duration, can it? Some sort of IMU would surely have cut off the engine?

L257[08:12:15] <RandomJeb> maybe some systems got fried in the van allen belt

L258[08:12:56] <BPlayer> For once, I wish Elon gave some real information, rather than his famous Jokemisms

L259[08:13:12] <darsie> I don't think it was a mistake. They just burned all the fuel they had to see how far it would go.

L260[08:13:42] <BPlayer> But... Mars...

L261[08:13:52] <darsie> Ceres :)

L262[08:14:09] * BPlayer is disappointed in the new destination

L263[08:14:14] <darsie> They are going to make a Ceres colony instead :).

L264[08:14:23] <BPlayer> That's like aiming for Duna and ending up at Dres in KSP

L265[08:14:33] <BPlayer> Noone wants to visit Dres :P

L266[08:14:41] <darsie> I passed by there.

L267[08:15:19] <darsie> Just to have been there and at all other planets with a rocket left over from an asteroid mission and some fuel left.

L268[08:16:06] <BPlayer> Oh well, whatever

L269[08:16:27] <BPlayer> I'm off for now, but be back soon. See you!

L270[08:16:32] <darsie> cu

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L277[08:27:40] <Pakaran> Has anyone tried Nightengale contract mods with alternate star systems?

L278[08:28:29] <scribbles> http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/170609678681/kerbal-space-program-making-history-expansion

L279[08:28:30] <scribbles> wooooo

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L282[08:49:05] <ve2dmn> "all players who purchased the game before April 2013 will receive the expansion for free"

L283[08:49:20] <ve2dmn> >_< dammit

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L285[08:52:36] <ve2dmn> I wonder if it's possible to reproduce the double booster landing from yesterday using kOS

L286[08:52:53] ⇨ Joins: NolanSyKinsley (NolanSyKinsley!~NolanSyKi@2606:6000:5112:df00:deda:eba8:6f4e:72e)

L287[08:53:03] <Michiyo> 2/10/1013 \o/

L288[08:53:10] <Pakaran> ve2dmn, on the flip side, they paid in 2013, and are just now receiving their first paid expansion.

L289[08:53:34] <Michiyo> er 2013* lol

L290[08:53:36] <ve2dmn> because I do believe that as long as both booster stay inside the physics range , both CPU would be running...

L291[08:53:42] <Eclipser> I have no idea when I got ksp..

L292[08:54:01] <ve2dmn> ... that leaves the question of the core

L293[08:54:28] <Michiyo> well.. you could go for 100% accuracy... :/

L294[08:54:35] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: I will gladly pay. I have a gaming addiction at this point. I must own them all

L295[08:55:35] <ve2dmn> Michiyo: you bought it in november? that's too late

L296[08:55:39] <Eclipser> hm, probably june/july 2013...

L297[08:55:46] <Michiyo> Oh, right.... non us dates.

L298[08:55:50] <Michiyo> 10/2/2013 :P

L299[08:56:26] <ve2dmn> ISO format, true format :P

L300[08:56:34] <Eclipser> Michiyo, convert from your heathen date formats!

L301[08:56:46] ⇨ Joins: madmerlyn (madmerlyn!~madmerlyn@12.160.105.66)

L302[08:56:50] <Michiyo> If i wrote my dates like that I'd be fired.

L303[08:56:51] <Michiyo> soooo

L304[08:56:55] <Michiyo> I'll pass

L305[08:57:11] <Eclipser> I'd probably quit if I had to write my dates like that

L306[08:57:25] <ve2dmn> I stick with 2018-02-07 because we stupidely support all standards...

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L308[08:58:01] <madmerlyn> are we complaining about how America does stuff again? Fun fact, groups of people are all somewhat different

L309[08:58:20] <Eclipser> yes but come on... date formats...

L310[08:58:21] <Eclipser> :p

L311[08:58:28] <madmerlyn> who cares

L312[08:58:40] <UmbralRaptor> ISO 8601

L313[08:58:41] <Eclipser> as a programmer I take offence to that

L314[08:58:46] <madmerlyn> I don't care that in Japan they write from right to left

L315[08:58:54] <madmerlyn> and go down instead of across

L316[08:59:28] <Eclipser> japanese is easier to recognize as such, date formats aren't

L317[08:59:49] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: Welcome to my world

L318[08:59:57] <madmerlyn> the argument is because we all use arabic numerals we should hate the way one group does it?

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L320[08:59:59] <UmbralRaptor> madmerlyn: more of US vs EU. JP and CN stick characters denoting day/month/year next to the numbers much of the time.

L321[09:00:20] <Draconiator> I like (month, day, year) but I've also seen (day, month, year)

L322[09:01:17] <UmbralRaptor> YYYY-MM-DD is unambiguous.

L323[09:01:36] <madmerlyn> I've never heard a person say aloud "5th October" but I've heard many people say "October 5th", and it's really only confusing if there's absolutely no context and it's the first half of a month

L324[09:02:02] <Eclipser> madmerlyn, sure, but if you just use numbers there's no way to know what the format is without sticking to standards

L325[09:02:05] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: sure... you celebrate the "July of 4th"

L326[09:02:34] <UmbralRaptor> ve2dmn: ITYM "Exploding Eagle Day"

L327[09:02:49] ⇨ Joins: K3|Chris (K3|Chris!~ChrisK3@h-9-55.A357.priv.bahnhof.se)

L328[09:02:56] <madmerlyn> we call it Fourth of July, but that's more of an irregularity, generally people don't include articles when verbalizing dates unless they're being overly formal

L329[09:03:07] <madmerlyn> you know.. like on a very special day in their culture

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L331[09:03:20] <Iskierka> YYYY-MM-DD also sorts correctly by default lexicographic sorts. No need for format recognition

L332[09:03:26] <Eclipser> the american argument for mm/dd/yyyy is "we say month nth", but in actual speech they're not saying 10 5th, they're saying october 5th

L333[09:03:37] <Eclipser> Iskierka, indeed

L334[09:03:51] <ve2dmn> I'm just annoyed at being a second class citizen all the time... *I* have to bow to everyone else because they can't be bothered to learn that other standard *exist*

L335[09:04:05] <ve2dmn> And I got laugh at for using 24h time format

L336[09:04:25] <ve2dmn> "Look at the crazy foreigner using military time"

L337[09:04:29] <ve2dmn> *sigh*

L338[09:04:42] <UmbralRaptor> stabbity

L339[09:04:51] <madmerlyn> I'm fully aware of other standards, I just tire of the constant "lul muricans is so dumb because they don't use the metric system or apply the same logic to date formats I do"

L340[09:05:02] <ve2dmn> It's a daily routine, and I hate that bit

L341[09:05:03] <UmbralRaptor> 24 h avoids confusion

L342[09:05:15] <Iskierka> american date systems don't apply logic

L343[09:05:23] <madmerlyn> k.

L344[09:05:26] <Eclipser> madmerlyn, at least with imperial things you're denoting units, with dates you aren't

L345[09:05:39] <jwest> Seconds since the epoch would give us a nice, consistent format.

L346[09:05:49] <UmbralRaptor> Time has units.

L347[09:05:50] <madmerlyn> you all are absolutely right. Americans are stupid and should just not record dates at all

L348[09:06:06] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: as a standard, it's perfectly fine. Standard are not about being perfect, they are about beeing agreed on.

L349[09:06:33] <Eclipser> standards exists so there aren't confusions

L350[09:06:37] <madmerlyn> it's a standard that we use, what part of that is so offensive?

L351[09:06:43] <UmbralRaptor> jwest: sort of hard for a person to read, but yes. Hence the popularity of JD-big_num in my field.

L352[09:06:45] <Iskierka> there is no logic in representing totally sequential data without sequence

L353[09:06:54] <TheKosmonaut> Psh.

L354[09:06:55] <ve2dmn> What's frustrating is being laugh at

L355[09:06:58] <TheKosmonaut> Plebs.

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L357[09:07:11] <TheKosmonaut> Swatch beats time

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L360[09:07:19] <madmerlyn> it's only totally sequential because you've decided the units should be sequenced

L361[09:07:22] <ve2dmn> And the fact that all 3 standard are legal in Canada

L362[09:07:37] <Iskierka> ... No, it's sequential because there's a mathematical ordering to them

L363[09:07:39] <jwest> UmbralRaptor: Only because we're not used to it, I'd bet. If we kept at it long enough, it might become natural.

L364[09:07:45] <Iskierka> dates are a total order

L365[09:08:07] <madmerlyn> YYYY-MM-DD is a fine format for that

L366[09:08:12] <UmbralRaptor> jwest: no, no. Too many digits.

L367[09:08:20] ⇨ Joins: Guest88021 (Guest88021!webchat@cpe-66-24-170-32.stny.res.rr.com)

L368[09:08:23] <Michiyo> Well, assuming squad uses a decent date format: 2013-02-10 copied from my store profile. :P

L369[09:08:26] <madmerlyn> but saying MM-DD-YYYY is illogical is being stubborn and I'm done with this idiotic conversation

L370[09:08:28] <ve2dmn> *I* have to bow to our partners in the US and France. It's just frustrating.

L371[09:08:30] <Guest88021> hello

L372[09:08:32] <Mod9000> Hello, Guest88021

L373[09:08:32] <madmerlyn> keep the circlejerk going if you want, I'm done.

L374[09:08:32] <UmbralRaptor> ;wa seconds since 1970-01-01

L375[09:08:34] <kmath> UmbralRaptor: seconds since Thursday, January 1, 1970: 1.518×10^9 seconds

L376[09:08:39] <UmbralRaptor> hi, Guest88021

L377[09:08:56] <Iskierka> You can't justify a logic to it, so it's illogical

L378[09:08:57] <TheKosmonaut> Of all things for this channel to get worked up over

L379[09:09:01] ⇨ Joins: BadRocketsCo (BadRocketsCo!~badrocket@137-234-196-88.dyn.estpak.ee)

L380[09:09:03] <Guest88021> how do I fix "no such host is known" in dmp

L381[09:09:05] <Iskierka> dates are a total order and that format ignores the order

L382[09:09:08] <ve2dmn> TheKosmonaut: welcome to my world :P

L383[09:09:19] <Eclipser> madmerlyn, it's fine if you don't use a number for the month :p

L384[09:09:19] <madmerlyn> no, I have justified logic for it, you just refuse to accept that

L385[09:09:21] <TheKosmonaut> Could be worse

L386[09:09:35] <TheKosmonaut> In Japan they use imperial years and 24h format with AM and PM

L387[09:09:36] <Eclipser> otherwise you're just inviting being misunderstood

L388[09:09:40] <Iskierka> You have justified relative position of MM and DD, not why YYYY should be totally out of order

L389[09:09:41] <TheKosmonaut> so I've seen 00:00PM

L390[09:09:41] <ve2dmn> TheKosmonaut: It's death by 1000 cuts

L391[09:09:44] <UmbralRaptor> Guest88021: not familiar with dmp, ask I'm #dmp?

L392[09:09:54] <Guest88021> ok

L393[09:10:01] <TheKosmonaut> UmbralRaptor: Are you #DMP?

L394[09:10:08] <madmerlyn> well Eclipser it's a good thing that I'm not writing an international scientific paper to bring my date format under scrutiny then isn't it

L395[09:10:19] <ve2dmn> I wasn't aware that DMP was still a thing

L396[09:10:24] * UmbralRaptor troutslaps TheKosmonaut

L397[09:10:34] <TheKosmonaut> UmbralRaptor: first of all...how dare you

L398[09:10:45] <TheKosmonaut> Second of all, will you be wanting this trout back?

L399[09:10:48] <Eclipser> madmerlyn, just don't make any plans to meet up with non-americans at a specific date then

L400[09:11:06] <madmerlyn> because communication and regional standards are mutually exclusive?

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L402[09:11:25] <TheKosmonaut> Who writes dates in that manner in casual conversation?

L403[09:11:53] <TheKosmonaut> I'd sooner type out "I'll be there from August 7th to the 23rd"

L404[09:11:59] <ve2dmn> Mods: I'm sorry for my remark.

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L406[09:12:26] <ve2dmn> It's bikeshedding at this point

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L408[09:13:03] <BPlayer> TheKosmonaut: I'd definitely say "7th of August", but then, I am European and English is a foreign language to me...

L409[09:13:09] *** BPlayer is now known as APlayer

L410[09:13:15] <TheKosmonaut> BPlayer: filthy European

L411[09:13:30] <TheKosmonaut> Don't you have some rich history and culture to bask in?

L412[09:13:35] <TheKosmonaut> Shoo

L413[09:13:36] <Eclipser> in actual speech sure, but would you *type* it out let's say on an sms?

L414[09:13:44] <TheKosmonaut> Eclipser: uh yes?

L415[09:13:52] <TheKosmonaut> We aren't using T9 anymore

L416[09:13:58] <TheKosmonaut> Why would that make a difference?

L417[09:13:59] <Eclipser> I always just use yyyy-mm-dd

L418[09:14:19] <madmerlyn> Eclipser why would you type a date out on a SMS with someone in another country and not bother to communicate it clearly?

L419[09:14:25] <APlayer> TheKosmonaut: Well, over here we have beer, sausages, pretzels, some less-known traditional dishes... Oh, and cars, yes. Cars.

L420[09:14:53] <madmerlyn> I'd be more apt to say "we'll be there on the 5th of October" than "we'll be there 10/5/18

L421[09:15:10] <Eclipser> madmerlyn, because people assume things that are clear to them are clear to others? it happens all the time

L422[09:15:20] <madmerlyn> because communication is about context and adapting to your audience, not about rigid conformity

L423[09:15:29] <madmerlyn> it happens all the time?

L424[09:15:37] <Eclipser> it does, it happened here today

L425[09:15:41] <madmerlyn> I didn't realize you had such a large number of Americans texting dates at you

L426[09:15:50] <ve2dmn> "adapting to your audience" .... if only that was true

L427[09:15:52] <TheKosmonaut> In Japanese though we'd just type ?????????

L428[09:16:00] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn not everyone is good at communication

L429[09:16:03] <Eclipser> sms and irc are pretty much equal in this context

L430[09:16:09] <TheKosmonaut> So it tend to be less confusing anyway because you say number-month

L431[09:16:09] <madmerlyn> not really, like at all

L432[09:16:21] <APlayer> ve2dmn: You, as a sysadmin, should be doing that. "That's not a bug, it's a feature. Get used to it!"

L433[09:16:29] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: nah they are good at communication. They just don't care about 0.2% of the continent

L434[09:16:39] <Eclipser> TheKosmonaut, yeah I like the japanese way

L435[09:16:42] <Iskierka> Kosmo: planning way into the future, are you?

L436[09:16:56] <TheKosmonaut> Iskierka: June 7?

L437[09:17:00] <TheKosmonaut> Not that far

L438[09:17:09] <Iskierka> ??? is that now 2030?

L439[09:17:13] <TheKosmonaut> Nope

L440[09:17:13] <Iskierka> *not

L441[09:17:21] <TheKosmonaut> Heisei 30

L442[09:17:30] <Iskierka> ah okay

L443[09:17:49] <TheKosmonaut> ;wa ????? in English

L444[09:17:51] <TheKosmonaut> Haha

L445[09:17:53] <kmath> TheKosmonaut: Wolfram couldn't understand your gibberish

L446[09:17:55] <ve2dmn> TheKosmonaut: that was confusing on my J-RAIL pass

L447[09:18:23] <APlayer> As far as I can tell, the Japanese use some sort of really good cryptographic hash function on their calendar, because the years are weird

L448[09:18:33] <TheKosmonaut> Imperial years

L449[09:18:35] <Truga> haha

L450[09:18:38] <ve2dmn> I understood the '6 moons, 7 suns'... but Hesisei date were a bit confusing

L451[09:18:42] ⇨ Joins: Althego (Althego!~Althego@BC24BDF3.dsl.pool.telekom.hu)

L452[09:18:46] <TheKosmonaut> It's gonna change soon

L453[09:18:52] <Truga> oh?

L454[09:18:53] <TheKosmonaut> Current Emperor is abdicating the throne

L455[09:18:55] <Truga> is the emper

L456[09:18:57] <Truga> yeah

L457[09:19:01] <Truga> that's a first right?

L458[09:19:12] <TheKosmonaut> As far as I'm aware.

L459[09:19:27] <ve2dmn> For an Emperor, yes. For a Shogun, probably not.

L460[09:19:28] <TheKosmonaut> He's like 800 years old

L461[09:20:00] <TheKosmonaut> ve2dmn: Shogun tended to be assassinated before they could abdicate warlordship of any sort

L462[09:20:28] <TheKosmonaut> And even in the age of the Shogun, the emperor still existed

L463[09:20:45] <Truga> https://i.imgur.com/zSGe53p.mp4

L464[09:20:53] <ve2dmn> True, but wasn't there one who 'retired' and put his son in his place at the end of the Sengoku Jidai?

L465[09:21:59] <TheKosmonaut> Oh yeah

L466[09:22:03] <TheKosmonaut> The first Tokugawa

L467[09:22:42] <TheKosmonaut> Kinda weird

L468[09:22:55] <TheKosmonaut> He abdicated by kept power till he died iirc

L469[09:24:10] <Truga> shochan

L470[09:24:12] <Pakaran> emperors in the medieval period actually abducated in their teens.

L471[09:24:31] <Pakaran> there was a lot of repetitive ceremony involved, and they found kids more suitable

L472[09:25:29] <Eddi|zuHause> did anyone ever tell you that japan is weird?

L473[09:26:23] <TheKosmonaut> Eddi|zuHause: dunno. Europe is pretty weird too

L474[09:26:35] <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably true :p

L475[09:26:37] <Truga> meanwhile: literally everywhere

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L477[09:32:35] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkI22V_v-xY

L478[09:32:35] <kmath> YouTube - Marble Machine X #24 - PLYWOOD GEAR

L479[09:33:00] <Draconiator> Did Musk change the soundtrack on us? Originally it was supposed to be Space Oddity....

L480[09:33:05] <Althego> yes

L481[09:33:23] <Althego> but a few days before launch it was starman

L482[09:33:40] <Althego> actually before the launch there was no word on the suit

L483[09:33:51] <Althego> so maybe they put in the suit and realized they needed an other music

L484[09:37:59] <ve2dmn> TheKosmonaut: I think I went to Tokugawa's grave...

L485[09:38:30] <Eddi|zuHause> i think i beat tokugawa once in civ

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L487[09:42:34] <ve2dmn> TheKosmonaut: also, note that this abdication was a good start in making sure he son didn't have to 'prove' his power

L488[09:42:44] <Althego> hehe there are a bunch of scott videos

L489[09:43:17] <madmerlyn> so Star Man is going to be spending his time at Apoapse near the Asteroid Belt, not at Mars altitude

L490[09:43:28] <madmerlyn> they overshot a bit

L491[09:43:31] <Althego> close to ceres even

L492[09:43:47] <Draconiator> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3niFzo5VLI - He's still up there. And the chat is still retarted.

L493[09:43:47] <kmath> YouTube - ?? LIVE: Starman Driving in Space after Successful Heavy Falcon Launch SpaceX Real-time Updates

L494[09:43:59] <Draconiator> *Retarded even

L495[09:44:07] <Althego> but the stream is not live anymore

L496[09:44:10] <Draconiator> Everyone thinks it's CGI rofl

L497[09:44:18] <Althego> lol

L498[09:44:32] <madmerlyn> I saw a gif someone made, they put Darth Vader's dog-fight in the bg of Star Man :P

L499[09:47:15] <APlayer> Draconiator: This guys was like "I don't car if it's fake" :D

L500[09:47:23] <Draconiator> lol

L501[09:48:17] <Draconiator> (Earth comes into view) "SEE, IT'S ZFLAT!" well....cameras can't shoot in 3D you duh-head :P

L502[09:48:36] <ve2dmn> Draconiator: that's a re-broadcast, no?

L503[09:48:59] <ve2dmn> original stream was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBr2kKAHN6M

L504[09:49:00] <kmath> YouTube - Live Views of Starman

L505[09:49:10] <Draconiator> Ehhhhhh those people are part of what's wrong with YouTube these days...

L506[09:51:16] <APlayer> I remember this time, it was a few years ago... There was some sort of flat Earth stuff, I think in history class, and I kind of admired how they could think such weird things back in the medieval ages

L507[09:51:32] <APlayer> Little did I know this would become a real thing in the future

L508[09:52:09] <madmerlyn> even in Columbus' day most people knew the earth wasn't flat, or at least most literate people did.

L509[09:52:33] * UmbralRaptor repeatedly stabs Washington Irving.

L510[09:52:50] <APlayer> And now, I just see people legit (yes, legit! This is so ridiculous, I can only imagine this being humanity's biggest joke!) arguing that the Earth /is/ flat

L511[09:52:55] <UmbralRaptor> (The guy who pushed the Columbus myth)

L512[09:53:00] * APlayer frowns sadly

L513[09:54:07] <Eddi|zuHause> APlayer: there's however not a lot of evidence that "in the medieval ages" anyone seriously thought the earth was flat.

L514[09:54:27] <APlayer> I guess this is the result of the western, society's boredom that came with wealth and less work to do

L515[09:54:27] <Eddi|zuHause> APlayer: all that we have is people that said "look how stupid these other people a hundred years ago were"

L516[09:54:41] <madmerlyn> that's because in the medieval ages hardly anyone could read and write and that's why they're often called the "dark ages"

L517[09:54:45] <madmerlyn> not a lot of documentation from that era

L518[09:55:09] <madmerlyn> besides from the few wealthy people, and monks, who could read and write

L519[09:55:28] <APlayer> Eddi: I never was a historian, and whatever happened in the medieval ages, the only era where I would accept people thinking such a thing would be this one. Definitely not out era, though.

L520[09:56:00] <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you take out the peasants whose "world" consisted of the 3 neighbouring villages and the next town, where it really doesn't matter whether the world was flat or not

L521[09:56:16] ⇦ Quits: BadRocketsCo (BadRocketsCo!~badrocket@137-234-196-88.dyn.estpak.ee) (Ping timeout: 383 seconds)

L522[09:57:08] <Eddi|zuHause> there are educated people, who had access to all the knowledge that was transferred, including the knowledge that the earth was round. and seafarers, who would have found it obvious that the sea surface is curved

L523[09:58:43] <Eddi|zuHause> columbus didn't have to convince anyone that the earth was round, but the general consensus at that time was that the earth was way too large to ship around, and columbus thought it was much smaller

L524[09:58:45] <madmerlyn> thing is even the educated people lost a lot of knowledge in medieval Europe, but the Earth is round I don't think was one of them

L525[09:58:56] <Draconiator> eh before I closed my browser I commented that Earth is shaped like a donut hole.. Seriously, there's wrinkles on the surface representing mountains lol

L526[10:00:18] <APlayer> Well, however sad it might be, not like I can do anything there. Those people will stubbornly believe the Earth is flat and you can't help them anymore

L527[10:00:57] <APlayer> Back to the Starman, then. What I have yet to see is someone joking that this is how people who failed their driver's license end up

L528[10:04:21] <Kalpa> So, about Starman: I'm pretty sure that's how the people who fail their driver's license end up

L529[10:04:56] <Eddi|zuHause> i've never failed my drivers license test, so i don't know...

L530[10:04:58] * APlayer crosses another thing off his to-do list

L531[10:08:51] <Deddly> I have failed a drivers test

L532[10:08:55] <madmerlyn> I passed my skills test for driving on 9/11, heard about the attack on the radio while I was taking the skills test

L533[10:08:59] <Deddly> That's exactly what happens

L534[10:10:48] ⇨ Joins: Not-KasperVld (Not-KasperVld!webchat@5532264444.e.brasiltelecom.net.br)

L535[10:11:07] <Not-KasperVld> Forums down?

L536[10:11:13] <Kalpa> What happened?

L537[10:11:23] <Deddly> Not-KasperVld, I think that nickname is maybe not allowed in here :)

L538[10:11:34] <Not-KasperVld> Idk, getting a NXDomain error from it

L539[10:11:44] <Not-KasperVld> I'm not kaspervld tjo

L540[10:11:55] <Not-KasperVld> Deddly pls

L541[10:12:07] <Not-KasperVld> Just tell me whether the forums are down and I'll leave

L542[10:12:16] <Not-KasperVld> Tho*

L543[10:12:29] <Kalpa> Try http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/

L544[10:12:42] <Not-KasperVld> Kalpa pls

L545[10:12:53] <Not-KasperVld> Gimme a yes or no

L546[10:13:05] <Kalpa> I don't know the address of the forums so I am in no position to help you

L547[10:13:24] <Kalpa> If I did know I could've pasted it on that site, and then posted you the reply with the pasted site in place

L548[10:13:42] <Not-KasperVld> forums.kerbalspaceprogram.com

L549[10:13:45] <Deddly> Forum seems fine to me

L550[10:13:55] <Kalpa> Why did you not type that into the address I just gave you tho

L551[10:13:55] <Deddly> You're welcome to stay though

L552[10:14:00] <Not-KasperVld> K it's on my end then

L553[10:14:10] <Not-KasperVld> Thanks

L554[10:14:18] <Deddly> Just use the /nick command to change names

L555[10:14:36] <Deddly> Hmm, need to shorten that URL

L556[10:14:44] <Kalpa> Indeed

L557[10:14:54] <Althego> what, when

L558[10:14:58] <Althego> what about 1.4?

L559[10:14:59] <Kalpa> Maybe remove the KSPEE for ps4 and xbone, does anyone even care about that?

L560[10:16:34] <Althego> the mission builder... i dont know, i was already flying my own missions for years without that

L561[10:16:47] <Deddly> Not-KasperVld, to change your name, please type: /nick newnickname

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L563[10:17:46] <Althego> otherwise for 15 eur (i am sure it will be that much) it is a huge parts pack, so it is worth it

L564[10:18:40] <Deddly> I'm in two minds about the mission builder

L565[10:18:56] <Deddly> I'm not so interested in making missions, but it will make challenges more interesting

L566[10:19:42] <Althego> yesm actually you can set up a challenge with the builder

L567[10:19:49] <Althego> and it confirms the success for itself

L568[10:19:53] <Deddly> Yup

L569[10:20:21] <Deddly> So, March 13 release date

L570[10:20:54] <Deddly> History Pack missions sound fun and educational

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L573[10:30:17] <Pakaran> any improvement in stock missions would be good honestly.

L574[10:30:33] <Althego> that is completely different

L575[10:30:45] <Pakaran> I'm going to test out a few contract packs, just in case I need to backup my craft and restart my career

L576[10:30:46] <Althego> i wouldnt really call those missions

L577[10:30:53] <Pakaran> oh, true.

L578[10:30:54] <Deddly> 15 USD. What do you think of the price?

L579[10:31:04] <Althego> i would buy it anyway

L580[10:31:20] <Althego> i bought ksp in 2014 and i am still playing with it

L581[10:31:25] <Pakaran> not bad at all. I've paid less for individual IAPs of several on other games, that add a fraction of the content that stock KSP comes with

L582[10:31:29] <TheKosmonaut> Deddly: but I paid that much like 4-5 years ago

L583[10:31:34] <TheKosmonaut> I won't pay it again!

L584[10:31:34] <Pakaran> (and comes with, updated for free, a long time now)

L585[10:31:39] <TheKosmonaut> :P

L586[10:32:12] <ve2dmn> Deddly: decent price IMHO

L587[10:32:18] <Kalpa> I mean, price seems cheap enough, not that it matters for me because I bought KSP from Squad's original store, way, way back

L588[10:32:37] <Deddly> Yeah I think it seems reasonable, too.

L589[10:32:49] <Pakaran> also got remotetech, though I'm likely going to dial down the difficulty (at least allow deploying panels and antenae)

L590[10:33:08] <Pakaran> I'm also reading up on KOS.

L591[10:33:27] <Pakaran> Making tourists able to launch, pitch, circularize in LKO, and reenter "by themselves" would be kind of fun.

L592[10:33:51] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: that was the reason I wrote my first scripts

L593[10:34:14] <Pakaran> hmm

L594[10:34:34] <Pakaran> should I show off my TOURS (tourist orbiting and unguided reentry system) craft?

L595[10:34:46] <Pakaran> I got it almost entirely recoverable.

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L597[10:35:13] <ve2dmn> I wasn't getting any other tourist missions then suborbital and orbit-around-kerbin at that point, so I wrote a script to do it automatically to fund my space program

L598[10:35:26] <Pakaran> approaching part count issues, but I have a clear path to nodes that will fix that

L599[10:35:44] <Pakaran> or I'll just get VAB II, but that costs a good fraction of what I've spent this career, total

L600[10:35:58] <ve2dmn> (And since I was using cheap parts, I made a lose of funds)

L601[10:36:52] <Pakaran> I went sort of expensive.

L602[10:37:19] <Pakaran> There's a less recoverable version that includes every science part I had at the time, Roverdude's sounding rockets included, for the sake of grabbing high space over kerbin.

L603[10:37:29] <Draconiator> Yeah I'm having to sacrigfice a Kerbal to get one of those "Escape Trajectory" ones

L604[10:37:37] <Pakaran> the Terrier-based circularization has a lot of spare delta-v

L605[10:37:46] <ve2dmn> Draconiator: you don't have to

L606[10:37:50] <Pakaran> don't they just have to be IN an escape trajectory?

L607[10:38:02] <Pakaran> So get them in one, most of the way to SOI edge, and burn retrograde.

L608[10:38:05] <ve2dmn> That escape trajectory could last only 10sec

L609[10:38:07] <Pakaran> this will establish an apoapsis.

L610[10:38:25] <Pakaran> Then drop peri, which will be where you left LKO, and fall.

L611[10:38:59] <Pakaran> (I thought of that after I rejected the contract, though it was actually test a part in escape trajectory from Kerbin)

L612[10:40:25] <Pakaran> Does kOS come with a robotic boot to evict Jeb from the craft during assembly?

L613[10:40:28] <Pakaran> :)

L614[10:42:26] <ve2dmn> I wish

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L627[11:15:55] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImoQqNyRL8Y

L628[11:15:55] <kmath> YouTube - The Incredible Sounds of the Falcon Heavy Launch (BINAURAL AUDIO IMMERSION) - Smarter Every Day 189

L629[11:20:27] <Draconiator> Bleh, I give up on Career mode...I always get stuck early on.

L630[11:21:57] <Althego> hehe

L631[11:22:04] <Althego> i like the early part

L632[11:22:07] <ve2dmn> stuck how?

L633[11:22:13] <Althego> after that it is not much different than my usual missions

L634[11:24:01] <Eddi|zuHause> so when can i put the expansion on my steam wishlist and then not buy it for another year or so?

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L638[11:39:18] <Althego> hehe sped up version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0c3sXRaZDA

L639[11:39:18] <kmath> YouTube - Live Views of SpaceX Starman Speed X1000

L640[11:45:02] <ve2dmn> too bad. I was really hoping for a Jeb Bubblehead on that dash

L641[11:46:28] <fhmiv> no solar panels on the falcon heavy payload! very kerbal

L642[11:46:41] <fhmiv> seems like a rescue mission is required

L643[11:46:42] <Mathuin> So release date for the expansion is March 13. Folks who bought through April 2013 get it for free. How do I find out when I got the game, again?

L644[11:47:25] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: where did you buy it?

L645[11:48:06] <Althego> unfortunately i bought it more than a year later

L646[11:48:41] <ve2dmn> so, the current orbit of the Telsa is known. Do we know if it will cross Earth, Mars or any other object at some point?

L647[11:48:59] <Althego> scott said a date when it will be near earth again

L648[11:49:30] <UmbralRaptor> Last I saw gave aphelion just inside Ceres' orbit.

L649[11:49:42] <Althego> yes

L650[11:51:21] <UmbralRaptor> Perturbations from Jupiter will likely result in it being an outer grazer for Mercury eventually.

L651[11:52:01] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: steam

L652[11:52:36] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: then, you can see the transations history

L653[11:52:37] <Mathuin> Wait Scott did give a date for a return visit of Starman?

L654[11:52:44] <Iskierka> don't think it was on steam before that offer ended

L655[11:53:13] <Mathuin> April 2015 was its release date

L656[11:53:33] <Mathuin> No, I bought it from Squad.

L657[11:53:36] <Mathuin> May 19 2014

L658[11:53:43] <Mathuin> Ah well. $14 isn't so bad. :-)

L659[11:53:45] <Althego> hehe too late then

L660[11:53:47] <Althego> same as me

L661[11:54:06] <Althego> but wait, how does this work? is it a separate game? or is it a mod?

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L664[11:56:20] <Althego> period of 2.404 years, february 2030 is a relatively close to earth date

L665[11:57:04] <ve2dmn> Althego: I shall put a mark on my Calendar

L666[11:57:11] <Althego> lol

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L668[12:13:55] <SnoopJeDi> Aw, I missed the 2013 date by 3 months :)

L669[12:15:32] <UmbralRaptor> https://twitter.com/FitzsimmonsAlan/status/961221507216281602

L670[12:15:32] <kmath> <FitzsimmonsAlan> For those interested in @Spacex #spaceman, I've done a quick orbital integration for the next 10,000 years assuming… https://t.co/6bIsy1oBoZ

L671[12:17:38] <APlayer> Haha, read further: https://twitter.com/richardaralph/status/961288875175006209

L672[12:17:38] <kmath> <richardaralph> @FitzsimmonsAlan @SpaceX @Tesla Wait a minute! That extra-solar asteroid a few months ago... Did anyone try listen… https://t.co/wipKIbG308

L673[12:19:16] <Althego> 2030 is not that far

L674[12:19:35] <Althego> i think i waited more for the 1999 solar eclipse

L675[12:19:50] <Althego> but as we get older our time prception changes too

L676[12:21:03] <Althego> hehe an ejected car, that would be nice

L677[12:21:27] <Althego> would have been nicer with a direct jupiter slingshot

L678[12:23:13] <APlayer> Considering the Mars shot precision, Elon would not only fail a Jupiter slingshot, he'd probably accidentally get it into the Kupier belt

L679[12:23:22] <Althego> hehe

L680[12:23:33] <APlayer> (/me is still disappointed by those aim skills)

L681[12:23:34] <Althego> they never actually aimed for mars

L682[12:23:46] <Althego> at least it was obvious from some diagrams yesterday

L683[12:24:02] <Althego> there was not even a remote chance of getting near mars

L684[12:24:16] <ve2dmn> April 2013 is version 0.19

L685[12:24:17] <Althego> mars was not in the correct position

L686[12:24:23] <APlayer> But Mars... SpaceX... Flying cars... This would have been such an awesome stunt, man!

L687[12:24:26] <ve2dmn> that was before my time :/

L688[12:24:42] <APlayer> Why not Mars? Launch window is about now, IIRC

L689[12:24:54] <Althego> i hope at least before i die prices go down sufficiently that i can go into space once

L690[12:25:37] <APlayer> Soon, that is, but given the 1 or so ton of the Tesla compared to the 60 or so tons of payload capacity, a launch now seems rather plausible

L691[12:26:25] <APlayer> Althego: Take a 20,000,000$ loan and die in space disaster

L692[12:26:28] <ve2dmn> btw, if you remember a time before Eeloo, you have bought the game before 2013

L693[12:26:32] <Althego> lol

L694[12:26:39] <Althego> rig the reentry

L695[12:26:44] <Althego> and die in the capsule

L696[12:26:46] <APlayer> Mission accomplished

L697[12:27:13] <ve2dmn> Althego: or go out like the guy who had his ashes put into fireworks

L698[12:27:21] <Althego> lol

L699[12:28:09] <Althego> maybe like tombaugh, with ashes on a probe going out of the solar system

L700[12:28:47] <APlayer> "If I cannot get to space in my lifetime, I will do it in my deathtime"

L701[12:29:05] <Althego> you just need to wait

L702[12:29:09] <ve2dmn> well... you were in space in your before-time

L703[12:29:26] <APlayer> In fact, we are still technically in space

L704[12:29:33] <Althego> after a while the sun engulfs earth and later explodes the outer shell, thus scattering you with it

L705[12:29:43] <APlayer> Just in a particular place of it that can be excluded for most practical purposes

L706[12:32:12] <ve2dmn> hum... I'm reading the KSP version history and I remember most of the updates for 2013

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L708[12:32:50] <ve2dmn> July 2013: The Astronaut Complex Facility.

L709[12:33:02] <Althego> i have a serious astronaut complex :9

L710[12:33:20] <APlayer> Does it even have facilities?

L711[12:33:53] <ve2dmn> APlayer: no. only the VAB does

L712[12:34:09] <APlayer> True that

L713[12:34:20] <Althego> hehe, you mean the toilet in the remains of the building?

L714[12:34:44] <ve2dmn> May 2013: Flags are now available

L715[12:35:12] <Althego> bool flags = true; :)

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L717[12:36:26] <Draconiator> "Jeb, how on Kerbin did you manage to completely OBLITERATE the VAB, and somehow keep the bathroom in perfect condition?"

L718[12:36:44] *** Mead is now known as Guest13451

L719[12:37:22] <APlayer> Simple: It's an Indestructoilet

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L721[12:37:58] <Scolar_Visari> Sons and daughters of Kerbin: Preowned car for sale, free delivery to Asteroid Belt.

L722[12:38:35] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: I'll give you 1 dollar for it

L723[12:38:40] <APlayer> Tax-free since the deal is completed in neutral seas?

L724[12:39:14] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: Deal. You'll have to pay for the tow, however.

L725[12:40:46] * APlayer now wants Elon Musk to sell the Tesla

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L727[12:41:37] <Scolar_Visari> I can totally see there being a short story about an asteroid mining company retrieving it in the far future, mistaking the car for a high metallicity object.

L728[12:41:41] <APlayer> I'd even pay him a few dollars for it, but I'm afraid there will be plenty of people who would bid way more than me

L729[12:42:18] <APlayer> It would be too small to be retrieved by asteroid mining companies

L730[12:43:13] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Small objects would be preferable to larger objects in many cases, particularly since you can literally stuff them in a bag.

L731[12:43:53] <APlayer> But noone would invest the fuel to retrieve a car-sized object. At least I can't imagine it

L732[12:43:57] * Scolar_Visari points to Planetary Resources proposed water aquisition concept http://a.abcnews.com/images/Technology/ht_water_Rich_asteroid_thg_120423_wmain.jpg

L733[12:44:00] <ve2dmn> APlayer: sell it to the highest bidder... highest determined by current altitude

L734[12:44:13] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Starman already won

L735[12:44:23] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Fuel investment shouldn't be *too* high in the far future, or even today, if you're using some electro-thermal shenanigans.

L736[12:44:25] <APlayer> And is in the best position (literally) to be the owner

L737[12:44:46] <Scolar_Visari> And you can, ahem, skip fuel investment entirely by using a sail.

L738[12:44:59] <APlayer> But honestly, consider: You have a half-fuelled rocket stage with a car on it in space. What do you do?

L739[12:45:34] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: Perhaps I am thinking way too much now-time, but it's hard to imagine, really

L740[12:46:35] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: We just had a vehicle with an electric propulsion system travel to and orbit two asteroids.

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L742[12:46:54] <ve2dmn> I really wonder how the thing will degrade

L743[12:47:04] <APlayer> Yeah, but it required a special lot of solar panels and stuff

L744[12:47:31] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Dawn has an empty mass of about 747 kilos.

L745[12:48:31] <APlayer> But it was not towing a car sized asteroid either ;-)

L746[12:48:34] <Scolar_Visari> The original Tesla Roadster weighed in at about 1,305 kilos. We could totally propel something like that with existing electric propulsion technology and photovoltaics.

L747[12:49:18] * Scolar_Visari notes the Space Roadster probably has somewhat less mass as the batteries were removed.

L748[12:49:31] <ve2dmn> I'm reminded of the car in the time capsule to turned to a giant pile of rust...

L749[12:49:58] <ve2dmn> ...I wonder what will be the fate of the Tesla

L750[12:50:08] <ve2dmn> probably not rust

L751[12:50:58] <Scolar_Visari> The most massive electric propulsion spacecraft, Eutelsat 172B, had a launch weight of 3.5 metric tons!

L752[12:51:29] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: Some of it will experience micrometeroid erosion. Some parts sensitive to high temperatures should also warp.

L753[12:51:54] <ve2dmn> Paint?

L754[12:52:05] <Scolar_Visari> Perhaps. At least there are no bugs to sully it.

L755[12:52:13] <Scolar_Visari> Save for the Space Ameoba.

L756[12:52:44] <ve2dmn> And Tardigrades.... maybe.

L757[12:53:40] <UmbralRaptor> All hail the tardigrades!

L758[12:53:52] <ve2dmn> I'm sure once we managed to go beyond the Solar system we will find that Tardigrades already colonised everything

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L762[12:55:09] <ve2dmn> So post-human empires will be the Singularity Robots vs the Tardigrade Empire

L763[12:55:26] <Althego> hehe

L764[12:55:36] <Scolar_Visari> Ashes of the Tardigrade Singularity

L765[12:55:53] <Althego> or the nanorobot swarm vs the borg collective

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L767[12:56:13] <Scolar_Visari> Don't you get it? The Tardigrades ARE the grey goo!

L768[12:56:28] <Scolar_Visari> Also: More on Eutelsat 172B https://directory.eoportal.org/web/eoportal/satellite-missions/content/-/article/eutelsat-172b

L769[12:56:49] <ve2dmn> Or maybe a mutant of the Radiation-resistant microbe that lives inside Chernobyl

L770[12:57:32] <Scolar_Visari> Turns out, the tardigrades are actually the original colonizers of Earth via panspermia.

L771[12:57:46] <Scolar_Visari> They, like the Ctan, have been here since before time was time.

L772[12:57:57] <ve2dmn> But then, who was home?

L773[12:58:22] <Scolar_Visari> There is none. They are infinite.

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L775[12:59:25] <Draconiator> well that is if we humans manage to last for the next thousand years...

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L777[13:00:15] <Scolar_Visari> The Tardigrades are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before them, we are nothing.

L778[13:01:41] <ve2dmn> You know that the codename for the Tardigrade In Space experiment was TardIS ?

L779[13:01:50] <ve2dmn> Coincidence? I think not!

L780[13:02:42] <Draconiator> Huh.

L781[13:03:46] <Scolar_Visari> Draconiator: I can't think of many plausible scenarios that would wipe out hte entire species without annihilating the Earth's biosphere in turn.

L782[13:04:37] <Scolar_Visari> None of which we could engineer, of course.

L783[13:05:12] <Althego> we cant even eliminate all the insects we want to kill

L784[13:06:06] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Further evidence Starship Troopers should've ended with an Arachnid victory

L785[13:07:27] <ve2dmn> https://78.media.tumblr.com/c17d594a7a0d60084524f9c9818f37ae/tumblr_nw8yce1Wl71rwn6y8o1_500.gif

L786[13:07:46] <Althego> hehe

L787[13:07:48] <Althego> what is this from

L788[13:08:26] <ve2dmn> google

L789[13:10:35] <Scolar_Visari> Huh . . .

L790[13:10:35] <Scolar_Visari> http://wat-if.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/elon-musk-says-spacex-to-focus-on-bfr-following-falcon-heavy-launch-1050x600.jpg

L791[13:10:47] <Althego> yes

L792[13:10:53] <Althego> so probably no around the moon trip

L793[13:11:05] <Althego> because no human rated falcon heavy

L794[13:11:07] <ve2dmn> :/

L795[13:11:13] <Althego> i wanted to see that

L796[13:11:26] <Scolar_Visari> http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/but-why.gif

L797[13:11:34] <ve2dmn> Maybe Falcon 9 Full thrust is enough?

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L799[13:11:52] <Althego> dont think so

L800[13:12:02] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: The Moon trip was already doubtful as it was, though Musk seems to elude to a BFR effort instead. Which is . . . Eh, doubtful too?

L801[13:12:11] <SnoopJeDi> Althego, our failure in that regard is probably serendipitous

L802[13:12:17] <Scolar_Visari> Silly ve2dmn, just use a Proton-M instead!

L803[13:12:24] <SnoopJeDi> on account of ecosystem collapse being Generally Considered Bad

L804[13:12:47] <APlayer> You don't dock the BFR to the ISS, you dock the ISS to the BFR

L805[13:13:30] <APlayer> As for tardigrades... I really want someone to find out they can have an epigenetic shift that allows them to mutate quickly

L806[13:13:47] <APlayer> If that happens, I say they were genetically engineered to colonize planets

L807[13:13:55] * Scolar_Visari notes Space Adventures previously discussed an Earth orbit rendezvous with a Soyuz vehicle and Proton-M launched propulsion/habitat stage for a Lunar flyby http://www.spaceadventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/circumlunar1.jpg

L808[13:14:14] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: The tardigrades are actually Tyranid vanguard organisms.

L809[13:15:03] <Scolar_Visari> Given Roscosmos' recent financial woes and shift to support further tourist launches to the Space Station, I can see them being more receptive to Space Adventure's plan if it's ever resurrected.

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L811[13:15:23] <Mathuin> Space Adventure, that's a name I haven't heard in years.

L812[13:16:28] <Scolar_Visari> There will supposedly be a resumption in tourists flights this year, and Roscosmos is even offering EVAs.

L813[13:17:52] <Mathuin> Ah, they must have upgraded their Astronaut Complex.

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L815[13:20:25] <Scolar_Visari> Rumors abound of making part of the Russian Orbital Segment into a teeny space hotel.

L816[13:20:58] <Scolar_Visari> Using, of course, modules that haven't even launched yet.

L817[13:21:12] <Althego> why is the iss still expanding?

L818[13:21:23] <Althego> there will be soem new modules still

L819[13:22:10] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Uknown. Some, ah, parties want to begin retirement in 2024, but others are reluctant to do so. Retirement will undoubtedly be expensive and time consuming, and getting rid of it would eliminate support for commercial launches ala COTS.

L820[13:22:26] <Scolar_Visari> No one's ever decommisioned an object that large!

L821[13:22:35] <Althego> maybe in parts

L822[13:23:18] <Scolar_Visari> That'd be difficult, especially given we no longer have a convenient system in place to remove them and propel them away from the rest.

L823[13:24:12] <Scolar_Visari> Can't just chuck them away with the arm, nor is there any working propulsion system on the station outside Zvezda (Zarya having not fired her rockets in years).

L824[13:25:59] <Scolar_Visari> This also begs the question: How was Roscosmos supposed to move its modules from the ISS to Mir-2 under its previous concepts?

L825[13:26:59] <Scolar_Visari> Recommision Buran!?

L826[13:27:05] <Althego> lol

L827[13:27:12] <Althego> no that is dead

L828[13:27:15] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: You don't need much propulsion capability to move things around LEO

L829[13:27:34] <APlayer> Use a soyuz cargo capsule with more fuel tanks and you can move a few modules with it

L830[13:27:53] <ve2dmn> Magnets

L831[13:28:13] <ve2dmn> Or get out and push?

L832[13:28:15] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: What? Eek gad yes you do! Particularly for docking!

L833[13:28:26] <APlayer> Sorry?

L834[13:28:39] <Scolar_Visari> Docking uses up horrendous amounts of propellant.

L835[13:28:51] <APlayer> How do the Soyuz capsules dock, then?

L836[13:28:57] <Scolar_Visari> They get two chances.

L837[13:29:17] <APlayer> If you fill one with fuel instead of cargo, you get 10 chances

L838[13:29:59] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: You really can't fill them with anymore fuel without a redesign. Progress extra propellant tanks, for instance, don't go to the instrumentation module.

L839[13:30:01] <ve2dmn> What's stopping them to deorbit the entire thing in 1 go?

L840[13:30:20] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: A worry it might actually hit something. Again, it's fairly large.

L841[13:30:43] <ve2dmn> The Pacific is also very large

L842[13:31:19] <ve2dmn> But I get it, if it breaks up and each piece lands a different place...

L843[13:31:45] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: Well, they do have some capability of fuel transfer, don't they? Also, sure, you'd need modifications. But Soyuz seems to be such a kind of thing that can, with correct application of a hammer, be transformed into anything ranging from tanks (the war machinery kind of tanks) to rockets

L844[13:32:00] <Scolar_Visari> Deorbiting it all at once may also not be possible with existing equipment. Zvezda doesn't normally need much propellant.

L845[13:32:48] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Only Progress spacecraft (and previously, the ESA ATVs) had propellant transfer capability. I think existing variants of Progress store less propellant than they used to.

L846[13:33:11] <Scolar_Visari> Likewise, a lot of that's just for modest orbital adjustments.

L847[13:33:14] <APlayer> Also, why not revive the ATV programme, even?

L848[13:34:15] <APlayer> But anyway, of course you need modifications if you want to make a tug out of a cargo launcher. But I think they stay in reasonable budget limits

L849[13:34:40] <Scolar_Visari> Progress-M1 can store a little less than 2 metric tons of propellant, but the last launch of one of those was in 2004.

L850[13:34:41] <Pakaran> hmm

L851[13:35:07] <Pakaran> I think I changed enough mods to back up craft and restart my save.

L852[13:35:11] <APlayer> Well, as long as they work, why not launch a new one in 2018? :D

L853[13:35:13] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: THe ATV equipment's being used for the SLS upper stage, and only five were ever launched.

L854[13:35:53] <APlayer> ATV, Progress, whatever. Those are vehicles already developed. In comparison to developing a new one, building one seems rather trivial

L855[13:36:16] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: ATV wouldn't be trivial to rebuild, as a lot of the equipment and tooling is probably gone.

L856[13:37:20] <APlayer> But, again, if you wanted to develop a new vehicle, you'd not only have to get new tooling, you'd also have to develop a vehicle

L857[13:38:18] <APlayer> (Also, that's a thing I was wondering about for quite some time - why create an ATV and only fly it a few times before retiring it?)

L858[13:38:21] <Scolar_Visari> That'd essentially be the issue with restarting ATV development, particularly since what remains is being used for somethign else.

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L860[13:38:51] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Because it was expensive? Each required a hefty Ariane 5 launch, though they did haul a respectable amount of cargo and could also refuel Zvezda ala Progress.

L861[13:39:17] <APlayer> Well, the shuttle minus crew was cheaper?

L862[13:40:04] <Scolar_Visari> Shuttle can't stay up in orbit for more than a couple weeks at a time, ATV could also automatically dock (something only Progress and Soyuz does).

L863[13:41:05] <Scolar_Visari> The ESA had pitched usage of the ATV as the basis for an LEO crew vehicle, but nothing ever came to that ditto with the JAXA HTVs

L864[13:44:39] <Althego> what, pz myers has a youtube channel? ok, i am not that into anti creationists lately (gave up on that some time ago). but look, tardigrades from christmas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i39-IwN2pV0

L865[13:44:39] <kmath> YouTube - TardigradeEvoDevo

L866[13:45:43] <Scolar_Visari> Should've been Tardigrades for Festivus.

L867[13:48:31] <Scolar_Visari> Ahem, in any event, I wouldn't take the proposed ISS retirement date of 2024 very seriously at this point. In fact . . . I would be skeptical of any similar suggestions for direction at NASA for manned spaceflight till after 2020.

L868[13:48:41] * Scolar_Visari mutters something about regime changes.

L869[13:48:50] <Althego> hehe, another video from him, are humans animals, and there is ikamusume on the thumbnail

L870[13:49:05] <Althego> but i dont have time for this now

L871[13:49:14] <Althego> too sleepy because of the falcon heavy launch

L872[13:50:20] <APlayer> I was actually surprised to learn about some of the people at school who apparently also watched the FH launch

L873[13:50:37] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Even flat Earthers watched!

L874[13:50:37] <Mathuin> I got my wife to watch at her desk at work, she especially liked the landing.

L875[13:50:59] <ve2dmn> APlayer: my entire office was 'meh'

L876[13:51:36] <APlayer> The ones I'd supposed would do it (the typical physics people I hang out with usually) did not do it, while some people like, fully not related to physics or even spaceflight were all excited about it the next day

L877[13:51:53] <APlayer> That is, today

L878[13:52:49] <Althego> meanwhile flat earthers already stated that the launch and the video of the car was fake

L879[13:52:56] <Mathuin> Shame about their steam rocket.

L880[13:52:59] <Althego> hehe

L881[13:53:02] <APlayer> Only one person matched my expectations, vs. two more I expected to watch + two more I totally did not expect to watch

L882[13:53:35] <APlayer> Althego: Well, tell me the time you doubted they would do it

L883[13:53:37] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: You also get a fair share like this: "The rocket is nothing compared to the Saturn V or the Shuttle. We are 50 years behind where we should be because of primative chemical rockets."

L884[13:53:53] <APlayer> This is another few million of people that /did/ behave as expected

L885[13:54:08] <Althego> we could call the last few decades the middle ages of rocketry

L886[13:54:23] <APlayer> Not sure we arrived at the renaissance yet

L887[13:54:41] <Scolar_Visari> And, my favorite: "It will cost NASA 1000% more money to build the same rocket, these Gov't agencies are milking taxpayers too much. We need to completely privatize NASA, and even the military if possible."

L888[13:54:44] <APlayer> Certainly a lot of stuff going on, but we're still kind of stuck

L889[13:54:51] <Althego> milking taxpayers?

L890[13:54:58] <Althego> the nasa is 0.5% of the fedeeral budget

L891[13:55:05] <APlayer> ^

L892[13:55:07] <Althego> and this leads to politics unfortunately

L893[13:55:11] <ve2dmn> ^

L894[13:55:14] <APlayer> ^^

L895[13:55:17] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Contrary to popular belief, the Middle Ages were not a period of technological stagnation. Or, at least, anymore than most of the rest of human history.

L896[13:55:36] * APlayer shuts up because of accidental involvement in politics talk. Shame upon him.

L897[13:56:40] <APlayer> Anyway, let's talk about rockets

L898[13:57:04] <APlayer> I've noticed a fun contrast there. Falcon Hevay vs. that tiny Indian launcher, whatever it is called

L899[13:57:06] <Scolar_Visari> You got your improvements in metallurgy (full steel plate FTW), architecture (lets make those windows HIGHER and make more ARCHES!), agriculture (better crop rotation!) and chemistry (hurray for Alchemy!).

L900[13:57:21] <oren> Scolar_Visari: all of human history up till about 1900 was a age of technological stagnation

L901[13:57:42] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: But all of this happened in the short period of just 1000 years

L902[13:57:43] <Scolar_Visari> oren: Ah, I would say about mid to early 19th Century.

L903[13:57:45] <Mathuin> Eh, the majority of an exponential curve looks stagnated.

L904[13:57:50] <APlayer> Totally no tech stagnation visible

L905[13:57:55] <Scolar_Visari> Or, rather, 18th Century even.

L906[13:58:27] * Scolar_Visari points to the Agricultural Revolution that made later population surpluses possible.

L907[13:58:38] <ve2dmn> 17th and 18th century created the math and knowledge tools necessary for the subsequent developpement

L908[13:58:45] <APlayer> Ancient greece or rome seem to have achieved much more than the medieval people, TBH

L909[13:58:51] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Hah! NO.

L910[13:58:55] <oren> I mean, in middle ages tech advanced so slowly that majority of people were not aware it was happening

L911[13:59:13] <Althego> even noe it is notthat fast

L912[13:59:16] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: The Greek and Roman achievements in science are, to be frank, among the very most exagerrated components of Classical history.

L913[13:59:22] <Althego> except of those phones that come out each year

L914[13:59:26] <Althego> what else has changed?

L915[13:59:39] <oren> They would for example paint paintings of Ancient Greek battles and show the same weapons and armour that they themselves used

L916[14:00:02] <oren> they didn't have this concept that the technology was different back then

L917[14:00:14] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: Water distribution systems? Building technologies?

L918[14:00:29] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Yeah, Medieval societies had those. Architecture was notably superior in spite of a lack of concrete.

L919[14:01:05] <Scolar_Visari> Those Gothic churches, for instance, let in a lot more light and had a lot more interior space than Classical basilica, and most Greek temples (as their Roman and Egyptian equivalents) had little useful interior space.

L920[14:01:16] <APlayer> Test

L921[14:01:26] <APlayer> My message failed to deliver, apparently

L922[14:01:33] <APlayer> "/Actual/ cures for diseases, rather than "let's chop this guy's limbs off, surely it will relieve his back pain"?"

L923[14:01:43] <oren> for that matter, there are medieval paintings of Trojan war whowing Troy as a contemporary medieval castle

L924[14:01:46] ⇨ Joins: Supernovy (Supernovy!webchat@202.36.179.100)

L925[14:02:31] <Scolar_Visari> Roman and Greek agriculture was also quite inferior, lacking the same volume of crop rotation and using inferior scratch plows.

L926[14:02:33] <oren> they were actually advancing slowly but the concept of advancing technology did not exist

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L928[14:02:50] <APlayer> Also, what about population-%-literacy?

L929[14:03:27] <Scolar_Visari> Aplayer: Roman society was probably not more literate. Keep in mind that most Romans were poor farmers the same as their Medieval successors.

L930[14:03:43] <oren> APlayer: well the thing is our concept of Roman society is based on things written by the uppermost echelons of that society

L931[14:04:14] <oren> consuls, emperors, great generals and popular wirters

L932[14:04:18] * Scolar_Visari notes no more than 10% of Romans at best lived in cities, with much of that concentrated in Rome itself courtesy of grain shipments from Egypt.

L933[14:04:32] <Althego> romans didnt have rockets

L934[14:04:36] <Scolar_Visari> There's also that matter of cities being horrendously unpleasant places to live.

L935[14:04:37] <Althego> talk about ancient china instead

L936[14:04:47] <APlayer> LOL

L937[14:04:53] <oren> APlayer: ancient china had even less literacy

L938[14:04:53] <ve2dmn> Or Ancien Korea

L939[14:04:58] <APlayer> China, this /actual/ first spacefaring nation

L940[14:05:10] <APlayer> Had rockets when western society was just dawning

L941[14:05:20] <oren> APlayer: most chinese NOBLES could not read or write

L942[14:05:24] * Scolar_Visari shudders at the thought of living in Rome at its, "apex" during the Pax Romana.

L943[14:06:11] <ve2dmn> I would be dead at 15 in any other times then modern medecine: I don't have my appendix anymore :/

L944[14:06:46] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: Well, at least you'd have lead flavored wine.

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L946[14:07:00] <Scolar_Visari> Not because of the pipes, but because lead was used as a flavoring agent sometimes.

L947[14:07:03] <Pakaran> this would be great if I were better at making planes. https://imgur.com/a/Nr5WX

L948[14:07:03] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/dX4Ke3e.png

L949[14:07:09] * APlayer pictures ve2dmn's appendix laughing in a cartoon-evil manner

L950[14:07:14] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: yeah, I heard about that

L951[14:07:26] <Pakaran> the Romans invented the first diet sweetener, technically.

L952[14:07:37] * Scolar_Visari seems to think literacy in ancient China (that is, around the Han Dynasty) was quite high.

L953[14:08:13] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: Pipes were used in Medieval times, though lead was probably used more for construction on water proof/fire reistant tiles

L954[14:08:30] <oren> Scolar_Visari: not really. they had a special class of bureaucrats that were literate, much like the church in medival europe

L955[14:08:42] <Scolar_Visari> I seem to recall a few stories of Gothic churches catching on fire and raining streams of molten lead.

L956[14:08:51] <ve2dmn> There is a whole research on the idea of why Britan started the Industrial revolution instead of china

L957[14:09:20] <APlayer> How is lead good for fire-proof places? Wouldn't it melt rather quickly compared to iron?

L958[14:09:41] <oren> APlayer: iron is expensive

L959[14:09:54] <oren> like, really expensive compared to lead

L960[14:10:02] <APlayer> Well, so is titanium, but we use it in favour of lead on rockets

L961[14:10:20] <Scolar_Visari> Oren: Yes really. That special class of bureacrats was very large..

L962[14:10:24] <APlayer> (Exaggerated, sure, but I think I got the point across?)

L963[14:10:40] <Scolar_Visari> Copying works by hand in China was also more popular than using printed materials, it seems

L964[14:11:10] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: Wait, when did the Chinese start printing?

L965[14:11:14] <Pakaran> this is my almost-recoverable TOURS vehicle, to give some idea. https://imgur.com/a/8ce5l

L966[14:11:14] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/oqJg2qB.jpg

L967[14:11:30] <oren> APlayer: also iron is in high deman for making swords and armour and shit for the nobility

L968[14:11:46] <Pakaran> I actually know how to get the *one part* I need to recover the selected cluster of boosters (the middle one is a double size mod part, but not thrust limited).

L969[14:11:48] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Yes, they invented the printing press albeit sans moveable type.

L970[14:12:01] <Pakaran> but I think I'm going to move everything over to a new career game

L971[14:12:05] <Scolar_Visari> Typically using wooden blocks, I believe.

L972[14:12:12] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: why a new game?

L973[14:12:45] <Pakaran> ve2dmn, because I changed some contract mods, and the current contracts ended up in a weird state.

L974[14:12:55] <Pakaran> I guess I could try timewarping a week.

L975[14:12:56] * Scolar_Visari notes with amusement that written works in the Medieval world were often copied by people who could not read.

L976[14:13:38] <Pakaran> (One mod I really like wants an actual pilot with each tourist. TOURS isn't really designed for that, but with a node that gives a small passenger can, which I'm close to, it shouldn't be tough

L977[14:13:43] <APlayer> How can you not learn reading if you copy books?

L978[14:13:53] <APlayer> Like, learn reading by accident

L979[14:14:04] <oren> Scolar_Visari: well there's also the fact that in europe, being "literate" meant knowing Latin

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L981[14:14:19] <Pakaran> I know that at least in the British Isles, serf certainly could (and often did) learn to read.

L982[14:14:42] <Pakaran> (in the sense that they weren't forbidden, I mean)

L983[14:14:43] <Scolar_Visari> oren: The Lollards would beg to differ!

L984[14:15:34] <oren> Vernacular literature (writing in the same langageyou speak) was like, a part of the whole renaissance thing

L985[14:16:04] <Pakaran> Not just Martin Luther?

L986[14:16:06] <Althego> i think my slippers are deteriorating rapidly, because i get an abundance of electric charge buildup lately, and it is increaig

L987[14:16:43] <APlayer> Isn't that kind of ironic? We are living in the 21st century, just enjoyed the most spectacular rocket launch for years, are actually chatting in a place with many rocketry enthusiasts, and what are we chatting about? Illiteracy in the medieval ages :D

L988[14:16:46] <Scolar_Visari> oren: The Lollardy movement was in the 14th Century.

L989[14:16:54] <oren> Pakaran: no, also Dante

L990[14:17:05] <ve2dmn> APlayer: welcome to the inter-tubes

L991[14:17:39] <Pakaran> I have a full dramatic reading audiobook of the Divine Comedy I've been meaning to listen to.

L992[14:18:44] <oren> Scolar_Visari: I think EU4 does a good job modeling the Renaissance as a thing that originates in italy and somes to your country either early or late depending on where you are.

L993[14:19:12] <Scolar_Visari> oren: 14th Century England probably doesn't count as being in the high Renaissance.

L994[14:20:02] <oren> Scolar_Visari: I've played as england, sometimes I don't get to embrace the renassance until the 1500's

L995[14:20:03] <Pakaran> I like TOURS because the paying customers also volunteer for life support testing in the guise of complementary food. https://imgur.com/a/va5AG

L996[14:20:04] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/ad9NJ6f.png

L997[14:20:20] <oren> like, late 1500's

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L999[14:20:56] <Scolar_Visari> You had plenty of vulgar (ahem) literature prior to the Renaissance in England. Chaucer!

L1000[14:20:59] <Pakaran> (No, I don't know how they reach it. Maybe a little glovebox or something?P

L1001[14:21:17] <Iskierka> we had our own renaissance

L1002[14:21:18] <Scolar_Visari> Also: More Lollards. Luther was a bit late to that party.

L1003[14:21:22] <Scolar_Visari> Iskierka: As did the Scots!

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L1005[14:23:09] <oren> Scolar_Visari: of course you can do these cheaty things like declaring no-cb on a little italian duchy and taking a province with the renassance already fully present

L1006[14:23:10] <Pakaran> Yes, but none of the above envisioned bigger missiles as an important national goal!

L1007[14:23:23] <Pakaran> (joking)

L1008[14:24:04] <Scolar_Visari> oren: None of that really matters. I typically uplift humanity in that other Paradox game and teach them the glorious language of Blorg scent smoking.

L1009[14:24:21] <Scolar_Visari> They can write in any language, so long as it is in the original Blorg.

L1010[14:24:41] <Pakaran> I am interested in ideas to improve TOURS :)

L1011[14:25:14] * Scolar_Visari still recoils in horror upon realizing that the Civilization model of technological progress is probably how most people understand human history. "It goes from archery to wheels, see!"

L1012[14:25:21] <oren> Pakaran: use a crew can instead of a capule

L1013[14:25:30] <Althego> hehe deadpiool trailer

L1014[14:26:14] <oren> Scolar_Visari: lol.

L1015[14:26:28] <Scolar_Visari> "Lol those mesoamericans so primitive!"

L1016[14:26:37] <Iskierka> a realistic model would have a *fat* tree base

L1017[14:26:47] <Pakaran> oren, the main issue there would be reducing the SAS need right after first stage sep. And a biiit more tech than I have in this game, but it's on the list :)

L1018[14:27:06] <oren> Pakaran: use RCS

L1019[14:27:08] <Scolar_Visari> Iskierka: I like to think of a changing spiderweb complete with dead ends, pitfalls and the occasional portal to Hell.

L1020[14:27:32] ⇦ Quits: madmerlyn (madmerlyn!~madmerlyn@12.160.105.66) (Quit: Leaving)

L1021[14:27:40] * Scolar_Visari hesitates to build the Event Horizon wonder.

L1022[14:27:40] <oren> RCS is often superior in both weight requirement and contorl authority

L1023[14:28:14] <APlayer> I can only recommend a MM patch to nerf your reaction wheels

L1024[14:28:18] <Scolar_Visari> Yes, I could achieve a science victory upon its completion, but then I might lose my eyes and sanity. Not strictly in that order.

L1025[14:28:38] <Eddi|zuHause> * Scolar_Visari notes with amusement that written works in the Medieval world were often copied by people who could not read. <-- how is that strange? lots of computer programs are copied by people who cannot program

L1026[14:28:46] <APlayer> Probably the best thing I have installed in terms of simplicity-to-new-gameplay ratio

L1027[14:28:59] <Scolar_Visari> Eddi: They can at least recognize what particular letters are.

L1028[14:29:10] <oren> APlayer: I use RCS a lot even in stock.

L1029[14:29:24] <Pakaran> oren, thanks

L1030[14:29:34] <Scolar_Visari> Copying-and-pasting en masse is a lot different than writing out individual letters for a Gospel book!

L1031[14:29:44] <Eddi|zuHause> and i would include a large portion of people who stitch together stackoverflow snippets until it "works"

L1032[14:30:01] <Pakaran> APlayer, I do think I'm overusing the built-in pod reaction wheel. It "shouldn't" really be torquing a 5 tonne second stage onto a different near-hypersonic heading?

L1033[14:30:20] <Scolar_Visari> And Medieval manuscript writing took a long, long time. Also: Parchment was hideously espensive.

L1034[14:30:21] <APlayer> oren: Prior to the weakening of reaction wheels, I used RCS only for docking manuevers or, rarely, as a small course adjustment thruster

L1035[14:30:38] <Scolar_Visari> Last I checked, programs are not written on the tanned flesh of baby cattle.

L1036[14:30:46] <oren> Scolar_Visari: they probably could even pronounce the words, just didn;t knwo latin

L1037[14:30:52] <Pakaran> I do wonder how KSP reaction wheels work.

L1038[14:30:54] <APlayer> Pakaran: The MM patch is really simple, and as I said, I can only recommend it

L1039[14:31:04] <Eddi|zuHause> still, that only means you have to be a careful person, not a literate person, to copy something

L1040[14:31:10] <APlayer> Adds a new layer of planning to your missions basically for free

L1041[14:31:14] <Scolar_Visari> oren: Not if they were completely illiterate, which was often the case. This can result in amusing errors.

L1042[14:31:21] <Pakaran> APlayer, semi-saturable reaction wheels?

L1043[14:31:22] <Pakaran> or another?

L1044[14:31:41] <APlayer> I made one myself, but semi-saturable RWs is fine too, IIRC

L1045[14:32:15] <oren> RCS is superior for most missions anyway

L1046[14:33:00] <APlayer> Pakaran: Here is mine, but really, any of them work: https://spacedock.info/mod/879/Reaction%20Wheel%20Rebalance

L1047[14:33:51] <Iskierka> medieval manuscripts were not copied with specialised tools that only allow finite inputs from known valid sets and which allow flawless duplication of sections at-will

L1048[14:33:53] <Pakaran> APlayer, thanks!

L1049[14:34:21] <Iskierka> sure, you could probably make copies using a *printing press* while illiterate quite easily. With a pen?

L1050[14:34:32] <Iskierka> (or more often, quill)

L1051[14:34:52] <Pakaran> I could trace japanese characters well enough for a native to read them, I suspect.

L1052[14:35:29] <Scolar_Visari> Eddi: There were many cases when the copyists could not actually make heads or tails of the particular letters in particular texts. Nice handwriting was not universal.

L1053[14:35:31] <Iskierka> only with difficulty and they'd know you weren't literate. stroke order matters and becomes apparent in details

L1054[14:35:46] <Pakaran> ah

L1055[14:36:12] <Iskierka> (that would likely be hidden with a pencil or such, but that wouldn't be these nice manuscripts)

L1056[14:36:13] <Scolar_Visari> Iskierka: They should've stuck to Times New Roman in large font.

L1057[14:37:31] <Scolar_Visari> And, to be frank, even with well written materials some letters can resemble others because spacing between letters and indeed entire words was often marginal (teehee).

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L1059[14:38:00] <Scolar_Visari> Which resulted in the common error of copying a letter or even whole words too many times or not at all.

L1060[14:38:10] <Pakaran> thus the whole confusion with thorn being printed as "y"

L1061[14:38:24] <Iskierka> No, that was german presses not having a þ

L1062[14:38:29] <Pakaran> and renaissance faire types STILL are writing "ye olde colde beeyre", which literally nobody did?

L1063[14:38:48] <Pakaran> well, not "beeyre"

L1064[14:38:53] <Pakaran> aah

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L1066[14:39:51] * Scolar_Visari seems to remember whole Bibles (a rarity indeed) requiring entire herds of animals to produce.

L1067[14:39:55] <Iskierka> and it did happen for a while as þ was unlearned before "th" was applied

L1068[14:40:07] <Iskierka> "Ye old" was definitely used but still pronouned "the old"

L1069[14:41:09] <Scolar_Visari> Iskierka: I feel even worse for people having to learn Egyptian Hieroglyphs.

L1070[14:41:40] <Iskierka> at least "cat" was easy

L1071[14:42:08] <Iskierka> "What is it?" "A meow." "Why?" "Meow" "Oh, okay."

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L1073[14:42:39] <Scolar_Visari> Behold symbols that can be both phonetic and logoraphic at the same time!

L1074[14:43:58] <Scolar_Visari> No wonder the Egyptians attributed a certain level of magic to their language.

L1075[14:44:31] <Eddi|zuHause> egyptian hieroglyphs are tricky on several levels. for one, a hieroglyph could mean the object depicted, or a sound/word part, depending on context, and the other is that vowels were not written down (like hebrew and arabic), so it only makes sense if you actually speak the language fluently

L1076[14:45:09] <Scolar_Visari> Or it can mean all those things at the exact same time!

L1077[14:45:36] <EricPoehlsen> The Arrival takes language to the next level

L1078[14:46:01] <Scolar_Visari> "See, if we put this cat next to ANOTHER cat on the cartouche, that means our Pharoah is the cat's meow!"

L1079[14:47:02] <Scolar_Visari> Eric: I used to speak in splotchy alien ink language, but I lost my appendage responsible for discharging writing fluids.

L1080[14:47:29] <EricPoehlsen> its not about the ink

L1081[14:47:48] <EricPoehlsen> its about the concept of time - you don't need the ink :)

L1082[14:48:00] <Eddi|zuHause> there's this scene in the original stargate movie where he tries to decipher some hieroglyphs on the other planet, and at some point his "wife" starts to correct his pronunciation

L1083[14:49:24] <Eddi|zuHause> that was before the series where they magically spoke every local language immediately

L1084[14:49:47] * Scolar_Visari wriggles their tentacles in agitation, as their people have for ages.

L1085[14:50:09] <Scolar_Visari> Eddi: I liked the movie a lot. I, in fact, still have the ORIGINAL DVD with its crappy resolution.

L1086[14:50:35] <Althego> in stargate movie daniel ackson says that it is easy once you got the vowels. bot nobody knows about them becauase they were not written :)

L1087[14:50:35] <EricPoehlsen> didn't you know that contemporary american english was the intergalactic language of every backward and advanced civilization

L1088[14:50:36] <Scolar_Visari> I should probably watch that while running Aisling propaganda tonight.

L1089[14:50:55] <Scolar_Visari> Eric: I thought Star Wars indicated British English is the one True language?

L1090[14:51:20] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: It also helps to bring 5th Avenue bars.

L1091[14:51:53] * Scolar_Visari ponders if Yahoo's army of commentators are aware that SpaceX is not publically traded.

L1092[14:52:47] <Eddi|zuHause> some detail that was a lost in the german translation was that in later seasons they had international team members (like canadians) who pronounced things like "ZPM" differently than their american colleagues, like in stargate atlantis

L1093[14:53:26] <Althego> zed pm

L1094[14:53:33] <Althego> hehe

L1095[14:53:34] <Eddi|zuHause> yes

L1096[14:53:39] <Scolar_Visari> Teehee, German translation. Fun fact: The film's director is German.

L1097[14:54:13] <Scolar_Visari> Said director also went on to make a film about the American Revolution, the Patriot, that was about as accurate as Braveheard (translation: Not at all).

L1098[14:54:30] <Scolar_Visari> Should've done a Stargate sequel.

L1099[14:54:35] <Eddi|zuHause> movies about historic events are not accurate?

L1100[14:54:41] <Eddi|zuHause> since when?

L1101[14:55:03] <Eddi|zuHause> also, weren't they about to do a stargate remake as a trilogy or something?

L1102[14:55:18] <Althego> i hate this decade of ramkes

L1103[14:55:26] <Althego> cantthey come up with soemthing that is actually good?

L1104[14:55:34] <Scolar_Visari> Eddi: They weren't simply inaccurate. They might as well been depicting alien redcoats invading America. That would've been more believable, too.

L1105[14:55:43] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Remakes are an old hat. See Cape Fear.

L1106[14:55:46] <Althego> and not just miminc something that was good and make a worse version?

L1107[14:56:14] <Eddi|zuHause> Althego: remaking things is not a new thing. hollywood is in a 20-year-ish remake cycle

L1108[14:56:16] * Scolar_Visari almost forgot the Akira Kurosawa Americanized remakes.

L1109[14:56:20] <Eddi|zuHause> since at least the 60s

L1110[14:56:37] <Scolar_Visari> Seven Samurai -> Magnificent Seven for the win.

L1111[14:56:52] <Scolar_Visari> Amusingly, the latter just got a remake with Denzel Washington and Chriss Pratt.

L1112[14:58:06] <Eddi|zuHause> also, none of the popular disney titles that they claim extremely protective copyright on, were acutally original works

L1113[14:59:06] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: I should also note that we tend to forget bad films from the distant past. It's not like they're really making a larger number of bad films vs. good ones.

L1114[14:59:07] <Eddi|zuHause> and on that matter, the brothers grimm also did not write these stories

L1115[14:59:21] <Scolar_Visari> Eddi: I heard they stole them and murdered the ACK@

L1116[14:59:22] <Eddi|zuHause> they just wrote them down

L1117[15:00:01] <Althego> hehe

L1118[15:00:06] <Althego> i mean disney, of courrse

L1119[15:00:17] <Althego> many old stories in that

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L1121[15:01:50] * Scolar_Visari tries to imagine a film depicting the true orgins of Homer's Greek epics which involve the blind poet and murder.

L1122[15:02:17] <Eddi|zuHause> also fun fact: the brothers grimm claimed that these were old german folk stories, but their main source wasn't actually german, it was a huguenotte immigrant woman from france

L1123[15:02:44] ⇨ Joins: NolanSyKinsley (NolanSyKinsley!~NolanSyKi@2606:6000:5112:df00:deda:eba8:6f4e:72e)

L1124[15:03:27] ⇦ Quits: EricPoehlsen (EricPoehlsen!~EricPoehl@p4fcf5001.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Transdimensional connection terminated abnormally.)

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L1126[15:04:42] ⇦ Quits: Althego (Althego!~Althego@BC24BDF3.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: HMI Module Alpha Humana on approach to Space Station Mercury)

L1127[15:05:25] <Scolar_Visari> Soon, only Visari will be left.

L1128[15:06:49] <Scolar_Visari> What on Mars? "Bigger was not better for the Bismark , and Rockets have only gotten BIGGER , but no real advancements other than size has happened since the V-2"

L1129[15:08:35] <Scolar_Visari> Everything in that run-on sentence is wrong. EVERYTHING.

L1130[15:09:35] ⇨ Joins: MrTikku2 (MrTikku2!~hude@91-159-228-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi)

L1131[15:10:15] <Scolar_Visari> Yes, no real advancements other than the fact that modern rocket propulsion is superior in every way.

L1132[15:12:00] ⇦ Quits: MrTikku_ (MrTikku_!~hude@91-159-228-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)

L1133[15:12:02] * Scolar_Visari mutters something about miniaturization of satellites.

L1134[15:14:21] ⇦ Quits: stratochief (stratochief!~quassel@108.162.146.236) (Remote host closed the connection)

L1135[15:17:15] <Eddi|zuHause> dude, it's "Bismarck" for starters...

L1136[15:17:50] <Scolar_Visari> That sentence is a perfect example of fractal wrongness.

L1137[15:17:56] <Pakaran> "One CMG unexpectedly failed after approximately 1.3 years and one

L1138[15:17:56] <Pakaran> developed anomalous behavior after approximately six years. Both units were returned to earth for failure

L1139[15:17:56] <Pakaran> investigation. "

L1140[15:18:03] <Pakaran> dang RL is hardcore.

L1141[15:18:09] <Pakaran> https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100021932.pdf

L1142[15:19:35] <Eddi|zuHause> i have this atlas from the 1980s which depicted the various rockets and other spacecraft for size comparisons

L1143[15:23:27] <Scolar_Visari> "The Energia blew up on both flights and a third time without getting off the pad."

L1144[15:23:34] * Scolar_Visari blinks

L1145[15:25:11] <Scolar_Visari> The Bismark person likes to CAPITALIZE words they think are IMPORTANT.

L1146[15:29:51] <Scolar_Visari> Also incorrect in history it seems, too. Contrary to their claim that George Washington never served in government prior to becoming president of the United States, Washington had experience as a Virginia legislator.

L1147[15:30:03] <Scolar_Visari> Also: Wouldn't being a general constitute government service?

L1148[15:30:30] <Mathuin> There is as big a gap between public service and military service as there is in music and military music.

L1149[15:31:36] <Eddi|zuHause> not every good general is a good political leader

L1150[15:31:58] <Eddi|zuHause> leaving questions open whether washington was either of those... for that i don't know enough about him

L1151[15:33:25] <Eddi|zuHause> hm, apparently in 1980 the world population was 4.36 Mrd people

L1152[15:33:25] <Scolar_Visari> Eddi: Better than nothing I suppose?

L1153[15:34:11] <Scolar_Visari> A lot of Washington's military successes consisted of not losing.

L1154[15:34:20] <Mathuin> A good initial standard.

L1155[15:34:28] <Scolar_Visari> IE: Avoid destruction by the British Army.

L1156[15:34:30] <Mathuin> He also did a great job actually leading individuals and working with other countries.

L1157[15:34:39] <Scolar_Visari> POLAND SAVES AMERICA!

L1158[15:34:45] ⇨ Joins: stratochief (stratochief!~quassel@108.162.146.236)

L1159[15:34:57] <Mathuin> France did its part too.

L1160[15:35:05] <Scolar_Visari> I just like to mention Poland.

L1161[15:35:12] <Scolar_Visari> Don't forget Spanish cash.

L1162[15:35:21] <Scolar_Visari> And time travelers.

L1163[15:35:46] <Mathuin> Gathering all the Brithaters, herding them in the right direction, and dealing with the fact that a third of Americans didn't actually want to stop being subjects... not a bad job in the end.

L1164[15:36:12] <Scolar_Visari> I, for one, welcome the new tax on tea. It's about time we did our part!

L1165[15:36:49] <Scolar_Visari> No taxation without representation? Nonsense? The Whigs only represent their own interests!

L1166[15:38:00] <Eddi|zuHause> and the literacy in china in 1975 was estimated between 40 and 60%

L1167[15:38:13] <Scolar_Visari> A Great Leap Forward indeed.

L1168[15:39:06] <Eddi|zuHause> it's the only country marked as "estimated", for some reason

L1169[15:39:21] <Scolar_Visari> Eddi: That's technically around the time as the Cultural Revolution.

L1170[15:39:32] <Scolar_Visari> Estimating many things in PRC in either of those times is . . . problematic.

L1171[15:39:33] <Eddi|zuHause> there's a "no data" on western sahara, though

L1172[15:39:47] <Scolar_Visari> Western Sahara's in dispute. Morocco still holds de facto control.

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L1174[15:41:40] * Scolar_Visari ponders the great difficulty in estimating literacy in a temporal range where tens of millions of people, er, "disappeared."

L1175[15:42:08] ⇦ Quits: esspapier (esspapier!~esspapier@80-109-207-2.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) (Quit: no time for love!)

L1176[15:42:25] <Eddi|zuHause> that's still an error of <1% :p

L1177[15:43:00] <Scolar_Visari> Middle of the line figures for Great Leap Forward deaths (primarily from starvation) hover around 30 million.

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L1179[15:43:21] <Eddi|zuHause> ok, 2% :p

L1180[15:43:21] <Scolar_Visari> 5% of the population at the time.

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L1182[15:44:38] <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see a figure for population of china here, only asia (without USSR) combined

L1183[15:44:53] <Scolar_Visari> Cause Asia is totes just a single homogeneous country!

L1184[15:45:19] * Scolar_Visari continues to revile the nebulous reference to, "The Middle East" that somehow includes Persia, Arabia and Egypt.

L1185[15:45:23] <Eddi|zuHause> no, but the soviet union is apparently a separate continent :p

L1186[15:45:39] <Scolar_Visari> Japan, China, Indonesia . . . ALL THE SAME!

L1187[15:46:07] <Pakaran> Scolar_Visari, I have a Polish-American friend who's really, really saddened by the fact that they used to be a major power, and now... win at soccer.

L1188[15:46:21] <Pakaran> Ok, football, or futball. Less brain damage than ours. But even so.

L1189[15:46:38] <Scolar_Visari> More from the Bismark individual: "Horizontal Launch is Cheaper , Safer , and does not REQUIRE the Load ( Cargo or people ) to experience HIGH G FORCES . Space X might get the Publicity and Government Money , but the Horizontal Launch will eventually be the WAY to Go . You use LIFT to REPLACE much of the THRUST REQUIRED for vertical take off."

L1190[15:46:50] <Pakaran> ("futball" is probably a Spanishism)

L1191[15:47:06] <Scolar_Visari> Pakaran: They just need to start another union with Lithuania is all.

L1192[15:47:08] <Eddi|zuHause> the "continents" in this table are "Asia (without USSR)", "Africa", "Central and South America", "Europe (without USSR)", "USSR", "North America" and "Australia and Oceania" (in order of population)

L1193[15:47:26] <Pakaran> Scolar_Visari, Is this one of those things where it helps that Kerbin is 600 km radius and thrice as dense as gold?

L1194[15:47:36] <Pakaran> Because spaceplanes seem to involve a lot of those things.

L1195[15:47:41] <Scolar_Visari> Pakaran: This person has probably never played KSP.

L1196[15:48:18] * Scolar_Visari mutters something about spaceplanes, lift and drag at hypersonic velocities.

L1197[15:48:38] <Pakaran> hold W, go up!

L1198[15:49:12] <Scolar_Visari> If you're not experiencing HIGH G FORCES, you're probably not going into space today.

L1199[15:49:18] <Scolar_Visari> Or ever.

L1200[15:49:57] <Pakaran> Scolar_Visari, also you can't do a circularization burn with air breathing engines.

L1201[15:50:09] <Eddi|zuHause> i watched this video recently where they explained how parabola flights work

L1202[15:50:26] <Eddi|zuHause> where they have like 30s of 0G and 30s of 1.8G or something

L1203[15:50:33] <Pakaran> isn't it basically the same as a rollercoaster coasting over a parabola?

L1204[15:50:53] <Pakaran> Besides that actual roller coasters typically *do* accelerate upwards while, say, climbing the second hill?

L1205[15:51:00] <Scolar_Visari> Pakaran: They seem to also think that horizontal launch is superior whether or not you use an airbreathing engine.

L1206[15:51:35] <Eddi|zuHause> and because they use a more or less regular plane for that, they have to have someone that clicks away all the "wait, it's probably not right that you speed towards the ground that quickly" warnings :p

L1207[15:51:37] <Pakaran> Oh. Well, then.

L1208[15:52:03] ⇦ Quits: Ezriilc (Ezriilc!AdiIRC@173.168.39.49) (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.Kerbaltek.com))

L1209[15:52:34] <Pakaran> also, I want to say SpaceX is already down to 3G or so?

L1210[15:52:38] <Scolar_Visari> The fact that you must also deal with forces in one more direction is also an issue for horizontal launch. Now your propellant tanks have to be extra strong!

L1211[15:52:46] <Pakaran> which really isn't "high G force" unless you're talking about 80 year old passengers

L1212[15:52:47] <Scolar_Visari> Pakaran: Need moar throttle range.

L1213[15:53:29] <Pakaran> Scolar_Visari, oh yeah. While learning to use FAR (including now) I've noticed a certain tendency towards, erm, spontaneous decoupling between fuel tanks.

L1214[15:54:11] <Scolar_Visari> Use quantum struts!

L1215[15:54:12] <Pakaran> If I were launching on Earth, I'd just go to 10 or 15 km before pitching and forget about it, honestly.

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L1217[15:55:16] <Pakaran> of course, I'm also dealing with parameters where ditching a full tank of fuel unused is hundreds of funds.

L1218[15:57:11] <Scolar_Visari> "You use LIFT to REPLACE much of the THRUST REQUIRED for vertical take off."

L1219[15:57:13] <Scolar_Visari> Hrm . . .

L1220[15:57:20] <Scolar_Visari> Still not into space.

L1221[15:57:54] * Scolar_Visari looks at the particularly stubby-to-nonexistant wings envisioned for most SSTO spaceplanes ala HOTOL.

L1222[15:58:37] <Pakaran> I've seen Earth's atmosphere to radius ratio compared with the skin of an apple.

L1223[15:59:05] <Pakaran> and that's prolly not far off.

L1224[15:59:11] * Scolar_Visari goes off to find commenter and correct them in person.

L1225[16:00:00] <Eddi|zuHause> Pakaran: if this is the diameter of earth: (------------.------------)

L1226[16:00:17] <Eddi|zuHause> Pakaran: then the ISS is around here (------------.------------)·

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L1228[16:01:56] <Eddi|zuHause> Scolar_Visari: well, they probably have the stubby wings of the space shuttle in mind, but i guess those were meant for landing and not for takeoff

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L1230[16:03:06] <Pakaran> aren't they to present more area to the reentry plasma, as much as to provide actual lift?

L1231[16:04:08] <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really know anything about reentry physics

L1232[16:05:03] <Eddi|zuHause> in physics class my brain stopped at the point where the teacher said "because of the drag the spacecraft gets faster"

L1233[16:05:55] <Pakaran> i switched majors away from physics somewhere around the 200 level.

L1234[16:06:16] <Mathuin> Wait, Earth's radius is like 6300km, and it's 100km from the surface of the earth to "space".

L1235[16:06:19] <Mathuin> That's one thick apple skin.

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L1237[16:06:41] <Pakaran> I was thinking that orange is probably closer.

L1238[16:06:52] <Blaank> Do we have video of the center core of the Falcon Heavy slamming down?

L1239[16:06:52] <Pakaran> assume a 5 cm radius orange with a 3 mm skin

L1240[16:06:56] <Mathuin> Yeah, I could buy orange.

L1241[16:07:01] <Pakaran> that would be, actually, still too much

L1242[16:07:18] <Pakaran> unless you assume the skin is all the way up at "stable enough to use" orbits.

L1243[16:07:31] <Pakaran> I'm sure I'm paraphrasing XKCD.

L1244[16:07:43] <Mathuin> I think the Karman line @ 100 km is like 70km in KSP

L1245[16:07:56] <Pakaran> 70 km is the edge of the atmosphere yeah

L1246[16:08:27] <Pakaran> I think the Karman line, theoretically, is the point at which, to fly around the world, a plane needs to use orbit, not lift, however big its wings?

L1247[16:08:40] <Pakaran> which might be in the 60s somewhere

L1248[16:09:01] <Mathuin> Pakaran: your recollection matches the Wikipedia page

L1249[16:09:27] <Pakaran> cool

L1250[16:09:28] <Mathuin> Needing to exceed orbital velocity to generate adequate lift.

L1251[16:10:33] <Pakaran> KSP mostly truncates the range between hypersonic and orbital.

L1252[16:10:45] <Mathuin> It's a game, not a simulator.

L1253[16:10:48] <Pakaran> IIRC, proposed scramjets are at ~2kph KSP orbital velocity.

L1254[16:10:50] <Pakaran> and agreed

L1255[16:11:39] <Mathuin> I am now wondering how much of an influence the Karman line's name had on the given name of all kerbals.

L1256[16:12:55] <Blaank> Hmm...... 2030 they could recover this car.

L1257[16:13:05] <Mathuin> Is that its next visit?

L1258[16:13:14] <Blaank> yeah

L1259[16:13:16] <Mathuin> Where is that documented, anyway? All I've seen is the image Elon tweeted.

L1260[16:13:33] <Blaank> Scott talking about it. orbital period of 2.4 years or something.

L1261[16:13:40] <fhmiv> yeah, I was wondering about the orbit this morning

L1262[16:14:39] <Eddi|zuHause> what is it orbiting?

L1263[16:14:48] <Eddi|zuHause> is there a diagram of its path somewhere?

L1264[16:14:57] <Blaank> It's orbiting the sun now.

L1265[16:15:24] <Mathuin> There's TLE equivalents for solar objects I suspect.

L1266[16:15:33] <Blaank> They burned way past mars orbit.

L1267[16:15:40] <Blaank> Used up all the fuel left they could.

L1268[16:15:50] <Blaank> It's nearly able to encounter ceres.

L1269[16:15:54] <Blaank> If it was to scale drawing.

L1270[16:16:29] <Mathuin> They give the Ap and PE in his drawing (2.61 and 0.98 Au respective).

L1271[16:16:48] <Blaank> It would be cool if they went and recovered the car for giggles.

L1272[16:16:53] <Blaank> But that's expensive.

L1273[16:16:55] <Mathuin> Ceres's Ap is 2.97, Pe is 2.56

L1274[16:16:59] <Blaank> The BFR could totally manage it.

L1275[16:17:18] <Eddi|zuHause> i somehow doubt the car is equipped for reentry :p

L1276[16:17:19] <Blaank> Could probably capture the entire 3rd stage of the faclon heavy and return it with a soft landing.

L1277[16:17:24] <Blaank> The BFR is.

L1278[16:17:26] ⇦ Quits: stratochief (stratochief!~quassel@108.162.146.236) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

L1279[16:17:32] <Mathuin> But Ceres is inclined enough to the ecliptic that I do not expect collision to be realistic.

L1280[16:17:37] <Blaank> Ah, right.

L1281[16:18:03] <Pakaran> I remember Scott Manley mentioning that actually sending it to Mars would "[pee] off a lot of people".

L1282[16:18:11] <Pakaran> Probably for planetary protection reasons?

L1283[16:18:15] <Mathuin> Yeah.

L1284[16:18:20] <Mathuin> Littering on a stellar scale.

L1285[16:18:49] <Pakaran> also, maybe we'll find FTL in the next month, and when it arrives at Mars, they'll have to pre-pay for parking?

L1286[16:19:38] <Pakaran> (that's a real risk to launching in generation ships, incidentally, and I've seen a few stories that dealt well with it)

L1287[16:19:52] <Mathuin> Weber covers it in the Harrington series pretty well.

L1288[16:20:28] <Pakaran> there isn't it more the Solarians being left behind by military tech that the two combatants have developed while fighting?

L1289[16:20:35] <Eddi|zuHause> well, if we launch a spaceship to alpha centauri now that takes 10000 years to arrive, and in 100 years they develop an eninge that makes the journey in 1000 years

L1290[16:20:35] <Pakaran> or are you talking prequels?

L1291[16:20:49] <Pakaran> that too.

L1292[16:20:51] <Mathuin> In the history of Manticore, there's a slow ship and a fast ship.

L1293[16:21:09] <Mathuin> I stopped following the Honorverse a few books after War of Honor, due to fatigue.

L1294[16:21:21] <Mathuin> Though my KSP flag is of the Honorverse sigil from the wiki. :-)

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L1296[16:21:49] <Pakaran> aah

L1297[16:22:04] <Rokker> https://www.instagram.com/p/Be6VZEzgAEk/

L1298[16:22:22] <Rokker> that's the final pic

L1299[16:22:23] <Mathuin> The last stuff I remember in detail involves the SS-equivalent boy wonder with the genetic slave and her husband the reformed terrorist.

L1300[16:22:35] <Rokker> rip camera

L1301[16:22:37] <Eddi|zuHause> assuming the engine development is on a diminishing development, at some point there's an overlap in that development where the next iteration of engine won't arrive earlier at the destination

L1302[16:23:10] <Pakaran> yeah.

L1303[16:23:26] <Rokker> a moment of silence for the camera, please

L1304[16:23:27] <Mathuin> [last shot] I grabbed a shot from the livestream as my background, but this one is better.

L1305[16:23:31] <Pakaran> one reasonable place for that to happen is around .01 or .02 C where fusion "tops out".

L1306[16:24:05] <Rokker> Mathuin: that's the last good pic elon got before camera death

L1307[16:24:06] <Eddi|zuHause> that means it takes 20-40 years to alpha centauri

L1308[16:24:12] <Pakaran> If he opens a drink, can he be ticketed for open container even with self-driving?

L1309[16:24:21] <Pakaran> Or only if they catch him before the alcohol boils off?

L1310[16:24:22] <Mathuin> Rokker: it's a great picture!

L1311[16:24:28] <Rokker> Eddi|zuHause: what if you get out and push

L1312[16:25:11] <Eddi|zuHause> it's enough to get people there, but probably not enough to return at a reasonable frequency

L1313[16:25:13] <Mathuin> http://honorverse.wikia.com/wiki/Manticore_System#History -- The same colony trust sent two different ships, a hundreds-of-years craft and a much-faster craft. :-)

L1314[16:25:31] <Blaank> RIP Starman

L1315[16:25:36] <Rokker> Mathuin: falcon heavy got me banned from Twitter for like an hour

L1316[16:25:42] <Mathuin> Noooo how?

L1317[16:26:05] <Pakaran> forget what speed you start getting radiation dose from interstellar nucleons

L1318[16:26:16] <Rokker> because I cussed someone out for pooping on everyone's parade

L1319[16:26:25] <Mathuin> Argh, sucky.

L1320[16:26:25] <Pakaran> probably depends how much shielding, but there's a point where the shielding is just secondary particles waiting to be run into.

L1321[16:26:46] <Rokker> someone was talking about how proud they were of America and some other guy decided to be all crappy about it

L1322[16:26:46] <Mathuin> Pakaran: the scifi way to deal with that is to generate a field which repels the particles and increases in strength with speed.

L1323[16:26:59] <Rokker> elons not American, spacex is a private company etc

L1324[16:27:03] <Rokker> like chill out

L1325[16:27:22] <Rokker> let people enjoy the event

L1326[16:27:29] <Mathuin> It being a private company is extra amazing, and there's still a sense of "only in America could an immigrant launch his car into solar orbit".

L1327[16:27:44] <Eddi|zuHause> everyone knows that the soviet union is the real hero in space travel

L1328[16:27:52] <Rokker> not to mention elon is like as pro American as it gets

L1329[16:28:09] <Pakaran> I...

L1330[16:28:10] <Mathuin> Eddi|zuHause: 63 days until Yuri's Night.

L1331[16:28:16] <Pakaran> have been trying hard to maintain that line

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L1333[16:28:37] <Pakaran> for example, despite being American, and not having voted for all recent American politicians, I haven't mentioned any of them.

L1334[16:29:03] <Rokker> like the idea that his launch is used as a great example of American exceptionalism probably makes him super happy

L1335[16:29:12] <Mathuin> Grats. I don't quite have the patience and discipline to be silent, because the current administration has had a non-zero impact on my family. Bleah. Happy space thoughts.

L1336[16:29:24] <Pakaran> I do wonder if Elon would be less successful if he weren't visible Caucasian.

L1337[16:29:32] <Eddi|zuHause> *cough* evil P word *cough*

L1338[16:30:11] <Rokker> ...

L1339[16:30:41] <Rokker> I think perhaps you should take this to another channel if you are gonna get political

L1340[16:30:44] <Rokker> both of you

L1341[16:30:53] <Rokker> just a suggestion

L1342[16:31:16] <Pakaran> I'd be open to a suggestion, but honestly, I don't know where would be appropriate on espernet.

L1343[16:32:04] <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not interested in getting political

L1344[16:32:18] <Pakaran> same.

L1345[16:32:20] <Rokker> #SpaceXFun is probably a decent start, bit cancerous but eh, it's where the #SpaceX runoff is directed

L1346[16:32:24] <Pakaran> I have all of Facebook for that.

L1347[16:32:24] <Rokker> including politics

L1348[16:35:14] <oren> Rokker: > describing a channel you created as cancerous

L1349[16:35:22] <Blaank> I need a final Starman 1080x1920 lossless image.

L1350[16:35:25] <Blaank> For a wallpaper

L1351[16:36:23] <Pakaran> there's probably plenty of journalists selling "artistic renditions" from "simulating" it in KSP.

L1352[16:36:48] <Rokker> oren: thoth created it

L1353[16:36:56] <Rokker> I just came up with the idea and the name

L1354[16:37:08] <Rokker> so everything except the channel itself

L1355[16:37:11] <Mathuin> Rokker: the actual conversation was about *not* getting political. Trust me, I won't complain here about it, I have other venues elsewhere. :-)

L1356[16:37:14] <oren> ah

L1357[16:37:49] <Rokker> Mathuin: but you still got a quip in there, which defeats the purpoae

L1358[16:37:52] <Rokker> purpose

L1359[16:38:25] <Mathuin> Rokker: if the @'s think I've overstepped, I'll happily pay the appropriate penance.

L1360[16:39:04] <Draconiator> Getting political usually results in getting physical...and you get bootable. :P

L1361[16:39:16] <Pakaran> I felt really bad about my "liquid chlorine" discussion re oxygen not included

L1362[16:39:27] <Pakaran> because someone remarked that it might tempt kids to try that.

L1363[16:39:42] <Pakaran> (assuming they can order liquid chlorine, which I doubt anyone sells, but yeah)

L1364[16:41:15] <oren> they're more likely to encounted aqueous ammonia

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L1366[16:42:34] <Rokker> Pakaran: mmm, chlorine. the forbidden drink

L1367[16:42:37] <Rokker> tasty

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L1370[16:46:28] <Eddi|zuHause> under what conditions is molecular chlorine a liquid?

L1371[16:48:43] <Pakaran> Eddi|zuHause, 239.11 K (?34.04 °C, ?29.27 °F)

L1372[16:48:46] <Pakaran> (from Wikipedia)

L1373[16:49:05] <Pakaran> which is higher than NH3 and CO2, among others

L1374[16:50:21] <Pakaran> (I can recap, but basically, it has weak intramolecular forces, thus the inconvenient properties, but as nonpolar molecules go, to van der waals forces are strong)

L1375[16:50:48] <Pakaran> *the

L1376[16:51:24] <Pakaran> but it'll cure athlete's foot, without much frostbite.

L1377[16:57:23] <Draconiator> swmplvr?cartoon... fake .. cgi...? - YouTube chat is so stupid...

L1378[16:59:48] <Draconiator> I had this idea...if a Flat Earthyer goes to either Dunkin Donuts or Tim Hortons and orders donut holes, they should just give him a bunch of small pancakes.

L1379[17:00:04] <Eddi|zuHause> you know what's the most stupid? group A complaining that group B is stupid in a purely group A chat. you can assume that group B is doing the exact same, and nothing will be accomplished

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L1382[17:01:02] <Pakaran> that's actually kind of the issue with the KSP facebook group.

L1383[17:01:25] <Pakaran> we're not allowed to reference flat earth, flat kerbin, flat anything, because it was causing problems with people trolling the flat earthers.

L1384[17:02:37] <Pakaran> this did lead me to look stuff up, and learn the easiest experiment a child can do to verify Earth is round: ask a friend at sufficiently different longitude where the sun is.

L1385[17:05:58] <Pakaran> I do have a silly question about momentum control: Why can't the ISS damp down with a really big permanent magnet?

L1386[17:06:46] <KrazyKrl> Because the magnetic field of the earth is so weak at that range, no real work can be done against it

L1387[17:07:04] <KrazyKrl> along with the fact that in the next 20,000 years or something; the magnetic poles will shift.

L1388[17:08:05] <Pakaran> and practically, we're not going to operate it for 10k years, so rather than tonnes of neodymium magnet to "leave sitting there", RCS works pretty well?

L1389[17:08:43] <Pakaran> also, "tonnes" of magnet lead to safety issues.

L1390[17:08:56] <Pakaran> (not found in milligrams on a piece of cork on a cookie sheet?)

L1391[17:09:58] <Mathuin> Imagine the takeoff. Imagine the fairing housing, and the tanks.

L1392[17:10:11] <Mathuin> If you needed that kind of force, it'd be safer to go electromagnetic.

L1393[17:10:28] <Pakaran> yeah.

L1394[17:10:43] <Mathuin> And yeah, recreating Eratothenes (sp) is probably a trivial case in a networked world.

L1395[17:11:27] <Mathuin> Heck, if you designed a jig with an obelisk, a level, and a camera, you can capture "local noon" from a number of points around the world. Use webcams, and let kids watch them.

L1396[17:11:50] <Mathuin> Use the values to populate a sphere with the angles visible.

L1397[17:11:51] <Mathuin> Etc.

L1398[17:12:11] <Blaank> It's a hoax! Fake!

L1399[17:12:20] <Blaank> Nothing will convince some people.

L1400[17:12:30] <Mathuin> True. But those people have little value to me.

L1401[17:12:47] <Blaank> You could throw them naked into space and they still would not believe what they saw.

L1402[17:13:00] <Blaank> Mind control! Memory implants!

L1403[17:14:32] <Pakaran> lol, indeed

L1404[17:14:42] <Pakaran> but Picard recovered in under a season?

L1405[17:15:03] <KrazyKrl> It's the space lizard people adding mind control in the water supply.

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L1408[17:29:15] <Pakaran> Mathuin, point. just ejecting the fairings so they stayed ejected would be an issue!

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L1410[17:29:39] <Mathuin> Oooh, save mass on fairings exploding bolts by pulsing the EM. :-)

L1411[17:30:02] <Pakaran> To repulsion, right.

L1412[17:30:33] <Pakaran> I'm tempted to take pictures with my phone of a "self-aligning" magnetic craft.

L1413[17:30:53] <Pakaran> But it would basically be a wood chip attached to a magnet floating over an aluminum cookie sheet.

L1414[17:31:06] <Mathuin> Very Kerbal.

L1415[17:31:07] <Pakaran> And I'm quite sure water provides much better breaking than eddy currents do

L1416[17:32:11] <Pakaran> Now, a "permanent" superconducting magnet, past Saturn or so, would probably be pretty easy to set up.

L1417[17:32:37] <Pakaran> whether it would stop tumbling in hours, not months, remaineth the issue.

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L1420[17:40:24] <lordcirth> Pakaran, in the book Accelerando, they wrap superconducting cable around a tiny moon of Jupiter, providing megawatts of power for centuries as it slowly inspirals

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L1423[17:50:30] <ve2dmn> So I was listening to my podcast, stuck in traffic...

L1424[17:51:27] <ve2dmn> ...and I heard in there the same notions about medival time that was previous mentioned here...

L1425[17:51:59] <ve2dmn> It seems somebody else listen to "You are not so Smart"

L1426[17:59:26] <ve2dmn> SURPRISE!!I broke CKAN....

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L1429[18:17:41] <Pakaran> you thought I was joking, but the Kerbal magnetic stability control system works!

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L1431[18:18:09] <darsie> What mods do you recommend to display rocket delta-v?

L1432[18:18:27] <darsie> mechjeb, IIRC

L1433[18:29:12] <Pakaran> the arrows line up on their own, without RSS! https://imgur.com/gallery/HZLbR

L1434[18:29:12] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/c2J1VMo.jpg

L1435[18:30:03] <Pakaran> (arrows may not be quite visible. the hard part was keeping the two inner magnetic thrust units from hitting each other)

L1436[18:33:06] <Pakaran> on attempting to dock passively with a craft a few orders of magnitude more massive (finger-nail-sized), it does tend to disassemble.

L1437[18:34:24] <KrazyKrl> If you want telemetry and a bunch of fancy information... Probably Kerbal Engineer Redux. If you want some dV readouts with telemetry and some stuff to fly the mission for you, use mechjeb.

L1438[18:35:15] <Pakaran> (#checkmatescientists?)

L1439[18:35:50] <Pakaran> (and yes, that's more like *one* order of magnitude. but I doubt you'd get the degree of magnetic moment per unit mass I managed, scaled up to the ISS)

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L1441[18:37:12] <Pakaran> (also, arrows line up only under the assumption that the street outside my apartment is aligned with, you know, something)

L1442[18:43:31] <Pakaran> I think the real issue, 2bsrs, is that the water provides a HUGE breaking torque on the scale we're talking about.

L1443[18:50:55] <Pakaran> I was going to use small, high-grade magnets to show that anything expensive enough will work, but they couldn't grip each other through the rim of the bottlecap.

L1444[18:51:01] <Pakaran> Need tweakscale!

L1445[18:51:22] <Pakaran> *small and gold-plated. because gold.

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L1450[19:20:24] <lordcirth> darsie, KER

L1451[19:20:47] <darsie> thx

L1452[19:21:30] <Mathuin> I use KER only when designing rockets. MJ is good for telling you how much dV is left in your tank.

L1453[19:22:12] <darsie> ok

L1454[19:22:24] <darsie> Does KER modify the game?

L1455[19:22:35] <Mathuin> It adds two parts which are not necessary unless you want to use it in flight.

L1456[19:22:47] <Mathuin> To my knowledge it does not change any existing behavior.

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L1458[19:23:15] <Mathuin> I found a lame way to check out much dV I have in my tank without MJ. I create a maneuver node, and pull the arrow until the burn time gets parentheses arond it.

L1459[19:23:35] <Mathuin> That being said, I haven't really worried about it that way because I'm a huge fan of reverting.

L1460[19:23:45] <darsie> Mathuin: That's not a stock feature.

L1461[19:25:04] <Pakaran> just not switching to and from map to see the current apo is pretty handy, I've found.

L1462[19:25:37] <Mathuin> darsie: aww man, I thought it was. :-(

L1463[19:25:42] <Mathuin> Now I'm wondering what app it was.

L1464[19:25:56] <darsie> I hate how labels I fixed with RMB disappear when switching from/to map.

L1465[19:26:14] <Mathuin> Pakaran: I spend a lot of time IVA (would spend more of it there with probes if PCR worked better)

L1466[19:26:26] <Mathuin> With RPM, you can get orbital parameters in a nice display.

L1467[19:27:00] <Pakaran> RPM?

L1468[19:27:06] <Mathuin> RasterPropMonitor

L1469[19:27:39] <Mathuin> and yeah, the insufficient-fuel monitor is from BetterBurnTime.

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L1474[19:35:02] <Pakaran> Mathuin, aah, I actually have that. Just tend to fly from the "main" view.

L1475[19:43:24] <Mathuin> There's a completely unsupported addon for kOS to run on RPM. When it works, it's pretty awesome.

L1476[19:43:35] <Mathuin> Time to leave the lab. Woo.

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L1510[20:02:02] <CarbonFibre> Hallo

L1511[20:02:18] <darsie> Servus

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L1513[20:02:35] <CarbonFibre> Goodbye

L1514[20:02:40] <darsie> Tschuess.

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L1516[20:04:32] <transitbiker> bwoop

L1517[20:04:42] <transitbiker> making super small very fast stuff

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L1525[20:09:08] *** Pakaran_ is now known as Pakaran

L1526[20:09:59] <transitbiker> rip chat

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L1530[20:19:35] <transitbiker> oh my gosh

L1531[20:20:21] <transitbiker> i landed on the runway

L1532[20:23:05] <transitbiker> first time ever

L1533[20:26:18] * transitbiker ponders about clearing the mountains with no control input

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L1537[20:38:22] <transitbiker> anyone there??

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L1539[20:54:32] <UmbralRaptor> no

L1540[20:54:35] <UmbralRaptor> https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/961394843648954368

L1541[20:54:35] <kmath> <planet4589> Corrected orbital data for the Roadster: 0.99 x 1.71 AU x 1.1 deg C3 = 12.0, passes orbit of Mars Jul 2018, aphelion November

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L1543[21:16:51] <Blaank> https://imgur.com/gallery/rv1jL Anyone got the news on it?

L1544[21:16:51] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/mW7hcrO.png

L1545[21:28:08] <Draconiator> Hmmm...looks like I am going to have to Asparagus this since it will not use fuel correctly like this.....grrrrr

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L1548[21:47:46] <Blaank> https://imgur.com/gallery/AXGpY

L1549[21:47:46] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/JfBriyr.png

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L1556[22:25:02] <Draconiator> https://i.gyazo.com/0b95277192a73836757e2f2317f9652b.png - Macberry still has her amateur rocket.

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L1563[23:53:04] <iplop> uhm, so is it true that the tesla overshot its destination?