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L1[00:00:10] <taniwha> anyway, other than worrying about whether the fins are control surfaces or static, it looks like your rocket should work
L2[00:00:17] <Pakaran> thanks.
L3[00:00:40] <taniwha> and /now/ I find the resources panel :P
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L5[00:03:33] <Pakaran> I'm going to upgrade the astronaut complex for EVA.
L6[00:03:42] <Pakaran> And next time, do it right, and probably more simply too.
L7[00:04:42] <taniwha> What I do is the first time I get into /space/, I pop back to the space center, upgrade the AC, return to my sub-orbital ship, and start EVAing
L8[00:05:06] <Pakaran> :)
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L13[00:25:37] <oren> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/929300138429198038/F941A015288AF7CA686D53839A11E3C2DA62B529/
L14[00:26:04] <Pakaran> wow.
L15[00:26:12] <Pakaran> that's a lot of slime and algae already mined :)
L16[00:27:37] <Pakaran> no overpressure either.
L17[00:28:30] <oren> that storage compactor is filled with slime, kept under chlorine, so it offgasses PO2 and I can collect and sanitize that
L18[00:30:10] <oren> which may not be as mass-effective but it is energy-efficient method of creating oxygen
L19[00:31:08] <Pakaran> and it's completely free.
L20[00:31:18] <Pakaran> let me check the wiki
L21[00:31:48] <Pakaran> I believe eating with dirty hands is the problem, for that matter, not eating in a slime biome.
L22[00:32:23] <Pakaran> So if someone once did it, when you weren't paying attention, they wouldn't have dirty hands, since they're in chlorine.
L23[00:33:50] <Pakaran> Slime is depleted.
L24[00:34:19] <Pakaran> It can be converted to dirt at 125c, but there's other ways to get that, and in quantity.
L25[00:35:46] <Pakaran> Jeb is going this time, since he has one star.
L26[00:36:19] <Pakaran> Val will go on an orbital flight to get science from Kerbin's poles as suggested earlier.
L27[00:37:31] <Althego> better to go for the mun as soon as possible, kerbin does not give you much. it is ok to do it if there is some time between nodes and you can fly back to recover money
L28[00:38:30] <Gasher[work]> yesterday i managed to land asteroid within 25 km of the center, i could have landed it closer but too lazy to reload again
L29[00:38:51] <Gasher[work]> also what is a more or less sane way to transport it?
L30[00:40:51] <Pakaran> big flatbed rover?
L31[00:41:14] <Gasher[work]> 25km? a bit too far ?
L32[00:41:22] <Pakaran> Hmm.
L33[00:41:27] <Pakaran> How heavy is the asteroid?
L34[00:41:33] <Pakaran> Bear in mind, I am a newbie.
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L36[00:44:24] <Pakaran> Althego, this is my current design, intended to get to Minmus with 30 stockalike parts and no boosters. https://imgur.com/a/U0TQQ
L37[00:44:24] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/YN4cj3u.jpg
L38[00:44:42] <Pakaran> Space program may need money badly, however.
L39[00:45:08] <Althego> that can orbit the mun
L40[00:45:14] <Althego> polar orbit, collect all eva science
L41[00:45:47] <Pakaran> ooh.
L42[00:46:05] <Althego> 17 biomes
L43[00:46:15] <Pakaran> and even if the polar orbit isn't quite circular, the periapse will pass over a bunch of them.
L44[00:46:17] <Pakaran> holy.
L45[00:46:19] <Althego> plus above high
L46[00:46:40] <Althego> problem is you probably cant come back from the polar orbit easily
L47[00:46:50] <Pakaran> hmm
L48[00:47:10] <Pakaran> Wait until whichever pole you're heading towards Kerbin, and burn prograde right over it?
L49[00:47:18] <Draconiator> Paka, are you just starting career?
L50[00:47:19] <Althego> you can also take the smaller instruments too
L51[00:47:39] <Pakaran> Draconiator, yeah, moderate difficulty.
L52[00:47:46] <Pakaran> the group talked me into it, but it's a lot of fun.
L53[00:48:00] <Althego> https://imgur.com/olIbuld
L54[00:48:00] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/olIbuld.gifv
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L56[00:50:23] <Gasher[work]> Pakaran, its A class, this particular is 4.5 tons
L57[00:51:06] <Pakaran> Gasher[work], Ok, so to rough it out mentally, it's my design from the Terrier up. That could fit in a cargo plane?
L58[00:51:15] <Gasher[work]> nope
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L60[00:57:43] <Gasher[work]> its too large to put into a container
L61[00:58:25] <Gasher[work]> and using the claw would require some careful positioning it, grabbign and then lifting the whole thing with landing legs
L62[00:58:54] <Pakaran> hmm
L63[00:59:33] <Pakaran> I was thinking mass, not bulk.
L64[01:00:20] <Gasher[work]> mass is emulated during design by a fuel tank with crossed over fuel and oxy
L65[01:01:15] <Pakaran> that makes sense. I remember someone telling me to get a 400 tank into orbit before I thought about landing anywhere.
L66[01:01:27] <Gasher[work]> Pakaran, https://i.imgur.com/tK6qqUj.jpg
L67[01:02:05] <Pakaran> And you can't sneak it in with a load of scrap metal? ;)
L68[01:03:06] <Gasher[work]> i think i can recover it but that's now what i want
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L70[01:03:16] <Pakaran> Ok, another silly idea. A kerbal, a booster, and basically a rocket sled.
L71[01:03:40] <Pakaran> Push it towards KSC.
L72[01:03:40] <Gasher[work]> quoting " more or less sane way..."
L73[01:07:48] <Pakaran> I think I saw a procedural winch mod somewhere.
L74[01:08:12] <Pakaran> Now, winching it across 20 km of ground would be slower than driving, and would also scratch up the rock quite badly.
L75[01:09:00] <Gasher[work]> lol
L76[01:09:18] <Gasher[work]> i am thinking of catapult now for some reason
L77[01:09:25] <Pakaran> Use a medium sized booster to launch it ballistically?
L78[01:09:44] <Pakaran> won't be too much heating if the booster has appropriate thrust limiting.
L79[01:09:52] <Gasher[work]> still that requires to orientate it
L80[01:10:00] <Gasher[work]> hm
L81[01:10:18] <Gasher[work]> maybe just launch it back to orbit
L82[01:10:27] <Pakaran> Ok, no boosters.
L83[01:10:37] <Pakaran> A one-stage rocket, with a swivel and a few tonnes of fuel?
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L85[01:12:29] <Gasher[work]> if it all fails i can just use converter, drill and claw to remove all fuel from the rock and as it is 90% fuel it would be very light after that
L86[01:13:24] <Pakaran> a flatbed truck would still be an hour or so drive.
L87[01:14:07] <Pakaran> i should sleep...
L88[01:14:37] <Gasher[work]> heh
L89[01:14:41] <Gasher[work]> night then
L90[01:22:52] <Pakaran> but I'm out of ideas...
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L92[01:24:24] <Pakaran> orbiting the mun sounds good.
L93[01:24:38] <Pakaran> I'll vary the design just a tad.
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L95[01:36:20] <Pakaran> First stage could do with less fuel, and more thrust at launch...
L96[01:39:32] <Pakaran> If I combine the lander and transfer stage, there's a lot of dry mass to haul all the way out to Mun and back.
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L99[01:50:42] <Gasher[work]> Pakaran, i think 1.7 TWR is optimal for first stage
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L101[01:59:33] <Epi> https://goo.gl/4mBjjU useful for cow launching
L102[02:02:06] <Althego> not really, because what if the cow spins?
L103[02:04:25] <Gasher[work]> well you have just formulated the first problem of cow launching - stopping the spin
L104[02:06:20] <Althego> https://i.imgur.com/1luI97R.gifv
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L106[02:09:06] <Gasher[work]> that's a way to break the machine
L107[02:09:43] <Althego> with a cat?
L108[02:10:42] <Gasher[work]> with imbalanced setup
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L114[02:56:58] <lpg> what's the drag coefficient of a cow? asking for a friend
L115[02:57:55] <Mat2ch> lpg: depends on the way it is served.
L116[02:58:32] <lpg> whole cow, face first, legs locked; assume full rigor mortis
L117[03:00:06] <Gasher[work]> vigor mortis
L118[03:00:28] <lpg> that is a magic card
L119[03:00:50] <Gasher[work]> yes i know
L120[03:00:59] <Mat2ch> should have a pretty good drag coefficient. Depends a bit where the head is, but otherwise...
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L128[03:58:35] <Gasher[work]> damn, this is monstrous plane and it does not fly
L129[04:02:51] <taniwha> Gasher[work]: cube-square law
L130[04:03:32] <taniwha> the mass of your plane goes by the cube of the scale while the lifting area goes by the square
L131[04:04:32] <taniwha> so to get sufficient lift, your velocity goes by the power of 1.5
L132[04:04:44] <Gasher[work]> monstrous in form not size
L133[04:05:04] <Gasher[work]> it can't fly but it can takeoff
L134[04:06:02] <Gasher[work]> https://i.imgur.com/NE0UkaL.jpg
L135[04:07:35] <taniwha> ah, you lack yaw stability due to the front "pylons"
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L137[04:09:54] <Gasher[work]> seems so
L138[04:11:15] <Gasher[work]> replace them with structural parts?
L139[04:11:27] <taniwha> that should help
L140[04:16:12] <Gasher[work]> still yaw seems to be unstable by FAR analysis
L141[04:18:08] <taniwha> not surprising, really
L142[04:18:31] <taniwha> (taking more looks)
L143[04:18:45] <taniwha> those wings are huge, especially with those upwards tips
L144[04:19:08] <taniwha> you'll need a rather substantial tail (or longer fuselage)
L145[04:21:12] <tawny-> hahaha, gosh, that is a very KSP plane
L146[04:22:45] <Gasher[work]> with longer tail COP goes too far behind COM
L147[04:23:08] <taniwha> so you need to make further adjustments
L148[04:23:16] <taniwha> remember, it's all a balancing act
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L150[04:24:40] <bees> lpg: perhaps you were looking for https://blogs.mentor.com/robinbornoff/blog/2015/10/12/can-cows-fly-floefd-investigates-part-3-superbly-sonic/ ?
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L167[04:56:46] <Gasher[work]> well at least it reached the place https://i.imgur.com/CHeuia6.jpg
L168[05:00:25] <Gasher[work]> https://i.imgur.com/4C4n5Pq.jpg
L169[05:06:33] <Gasher[work]> aaaaa damn missed https://i.imgur.com/rDB6ajJ.jpg
L170[05:06:42] <Rolf> lol
L171[05:06:48] <Rolf> so near yet so far
L172[05:07:10] <Rolf> can use other plane tp push it up?
L173[05:07:42] <Gasher[work]> that won't work, it's too high
L174[05:08:40] <Gasher[work]> i drove over the rock then lifted up wheels and too high
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L177[05:13:39] <Gasher[work]> and shorter wheel column version is much less stable
L178[05:14:13] <Mat2ch> Gasher[work]: why are you at work playing KSP? ;P
L179[05:14:31] <Mat2ch> also stock hinges and such things would've been great, but we will never get them.
L180[05:14:35] <Gasher[work]> they can't find anything for me to do
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L182[05:16:12] <Gasher[work]> damn, crashed halfway to the site
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L186[05:22:14] <Rolf> Gasher[work]: got idea for ya
L187[05:22:17] <Rolf> rock lifter
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L189[05:24:04] <Gasher[work]> ?
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L193[05:32:05] <Gasher[work]> damn
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L195[05:32:58] <Mat2ch> Gasher[work]: ok, when can I start? :D
L196[05:33:03] <Rolf> basically a plane that can land on rock, flips and uses legs to lift rock up
L197[05:34:45] <Gasher[work]> how is that simplier
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L199[05:35:13] <Gasher[work]> also reached the site, now lets see how high it is
L200[05:45:48] <Gasher[work]> nope no contact https://i.imgur.com/OrnIoPK.jpg
L201[05:46:03] <Althego> lol
L202[05:46:29] <Althego> retract wheels?
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L204[05:47:45] <Gasher[work]> they are already retracted
L205[05:51:42] <Gasher[work]> ok, let it stay there
L206[05:52:52] <Althego> put a ladder on it
L207[05:53:02] <Althego> and climb on the ladder with a kerbal
L208[05:53:28] <Althego> if the kerbal gets stuck, the climbing force is not negated and it will lift it
L209[05:53:46] <Althego> or at least move it
L210[05:54:26] <Gasher[work]> stuck where?
L211[05:55:52] <Gasher[work]> i happen to have a kerbal there, lets see
L212[05:56:08] <Gasher[work]> oops game crashed
L213[05:56:53] <Althego> hehe
L214[05:57:01] <Althego> you know, the infinite drive
L215[05:57:06] <Althego> i think it can still work
L216[05:57:17] <Althego> if a kerbal climbs on a ladder there are no counter forces
L217[05:57:37] <Althego> so if there is a metal plate above the ladder, the kerbal is stuck on the it, yet, still trying to climb
L218[05:57:47] <Althego> and the coutner force is not applied
L219[05:57:50] <Gasher[work]> too complicated
L220[05:57:56] <Althego> so the kerbal creates a net force on the object by climbing
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L232[07:31:13] *** Arcanitor is now known as Arcan
L233[07:33:13] <Draconiator> I don't think computers are not as prevalent as they used to be (desktops anyway)
L234[07:37:05] <Gasher[work]> https://i.imgur.com/pVvfmZF.png
L235[07:39:32] <Gasher[work]> https://i.imgur.com/59ytc4j.png
L236[07:39:54] <Truga> why is that thing shining? :v
L237[07:40:36] <Gasher[work]> i have no idea
L238[07:40:52] <Althego> that is the magic bouldr texture
L239[07:40:57] <Althego> since 1.2 or so
L240[07:41:06] <Gasher[work]> https://i.imgur.com/g67VF8C.png
L241[07:41:11] <Althego> it is applied to some regular asteroids randomly
L242[07:41:15] <Althego> with several colors
L243[07:41:40] <Althego> still it is sad that i never saw the magic boulder
L244[07:42:03] <Althego> ok, i got the sstv signal back so i could make a journey there
L245[07:42:38] <Gasher[work]> i cant use phys warp lol
L246[07:43:36] <Pakaran> definitely appreciate stockalike parts that make me laugh as soon as I see the description.
L247[07:44:15] <Gasher[work]> ok missionc completed
L248[07:44:45] <Gasher[work]> 167k rocket, 240 reward
L249[07:45:25] <Pakaran> nice!
L250[07:46:58] <Pakaran> what are those three engines?
L251[07:47:40] <Gasher[work]> play on and you'll know :)
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L253[07:47:45] <Pakaran> :)
L254[07:51:49] <Pakaran> https://spacedock.info/mod/187/Solaris%20Hypernautics
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L268[08:57:54] <Fluburtur> they better launch on the planned day
L269[08:58:03] <Fluburtur> because im going the 7th
L270[08:59:14] * APlayer launches a Falcon Heavy at Fluburtur
L271[08:59:25] <Fluburtur> thanks
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L273[09:02:01] <UmbralRaptor> Fluburtur is not a wayward boat.
L274[09:02:20] <APlayer> He's a wayward canadair, though!
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L276[09:04:55] * darsie has 89% reputation.
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L278[09:18:08] <ve2dmn> well... It's almost official. One of the few other IRC place I visit regularly is basically dead
L279[09:18:52] ⇨ Joins: Althego (Althego!~Althego@86FF4288.dsl.pool.telekom.hu)
L280[09:19:40] <ve2dmn> Everyone moved on to What's App (for the core group) and discord
L281[09:20:06] <Fluburtur> rip
L282[09:20:12] <Fluburtur> I like discord but irc is great
L283[09:20:14] ⇨ Joins: fhmiv (fhmiv!~fhmiv@c-73-158-172-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
L284[09:20:26] <Fluburtur> also big discord groups tend to be a pain
L285[09:20:38] <ve2dmn> I also learned today that I am part of a Mirco-generation called "Xennilials"
L286[09:20:57] <ve2dmn> Fluburtur: I don't understand discord.
L287[09:21:18] <ve2dmn> Actually, I don't understand why we have to reinvent the wheel.
L288[09:21:49] <Fluburtur> well it was because a dude was tired of skype I think
L289[09:21:56] <Fluburtur> and it is a good improvement oevr skype
L290[09:22:19] <ve2dmn> ...
L291[09:23:47] <ve2dmn> That kind of like saying Uber is taking over buses and subways because someone didn't like the taxi
L292[09:23:53] <darsie> Can you use whatsapp with real keyboards?
L293[09:24:00] <ve2dmn> darsie: I doubt it
L294[09:27:20] <Althego> xennials?
L295[09:27:33] <Althego> interesting
L296[09:27:38] <Althego> it seems it applies to me too
L297[09:27:50] <Althego> hehe
L298[09:27:59] <Fluburtur> peoples need to calm down with thei generations madness
L299[09:27:59] <Althego> it doesnt apply to me becauase it is defined in usa termx
L300[09:28:06] <ve2dmn> it's like 1977 to 1983 or something
L301[09:28:15] <Althego> when i was born it was still socialism here
L302[09:28:43] <Fluburtur> apparently millenials and in 1997 which is weird because I would have guesses it was related to 2000 and crap
L303[09:28:49] <Fluburtur> so I don't really care anymore
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L305[09:28:58] <ve2dmn> Fluburtur: it's not even a precise thing. If you look it up there are several definitions for each term
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L307[09:29:34] <Arcan> most people who would be called "millenials" were born before 2000, although some definitions allow as late as 2001
L308[09:29:35] <ve2dmn> Fluburtur: 'Millenials' are people who 'came out of age' around 2000
L309[09:30:01] <ve2dmn> Technically, I'm a millenial, but I don't understand them so... *shrug*
L310[09:30:05] <Arcan> the current generation is called "gen z" if i am not wrong
L311[09:30:44] <Fluburtur> tbh im often "damn kids with their phones, when I was their age I was playing with lego bricks and I was happy"
L312[09:30:57] <ve2dmn> Arcan: Eventually, we'll get to calling them 'Generation 20XX'
L313[09:31:04] <ve2dmn> Fluburtur: same
L314[09:31:05] <Arcan> I don't understand millenials or genz's ¯\_(?)_/¯
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L316[09:33:25] <ve2dmn> I feel like a dinosaur on a weekly basis
L317[09:33:40] <ve2dmn> On campus, everyone is always the same age range
L318[09:34:14] <Althego> hehe
L319[09:35:20] <ve2dmn> When I started working here, my girlfriend could have been doing her master. Now my kid could be in college
L320[09:35:29] <Althego> hehe
L321[09:35:56] <ve2dmn> of course, like most college-educated people, I am kid-less pass 30
L322[09:36:15] <Althego> hehe, me too
L323[09:36:32] <Althego> but i dont think it has anything to do with education in my case
L324[09:39:16] <ve2dmn> Althego: well, it's more complicated then that.
L325[09:39:44] <Fluburtur> someone posted this in my discord rc server https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/186191470141636609/407917210615676928/Screenshot_20180130-091640.jpg
L326[09:40:00] <ve2dmn> It's a general tendancy around the world. The number of childs is usually inversely linked with the salary of the mother.
L327[09:40:14] ⇨ Joins: RandomJeb (RandomJeb!~necr0@85.113.165.237)
L328[09:40:30] <Althego> which is kind of strange
L329[09:40:33] <ve2dmn> Even in countries where 'family-planning' is illegal
L330[09:40:43] <Althego> because why have children if you cant take care of them?
L331[09:40:53] <ve2dmn> Althego: the more she work, the less childs she has.
L332[09:41:07] <ve2dmn> It's a question of time
L333[09:42:43] <ve2dmn> Althego: I don't have a clear answer as to why poor and uneducated people have more kids
L334[09:42:53] <ve2dmn> (on average)
L335[09:44:14] <Fluburtur> I guess "to insure at least one survives" isn't correct anymore
L336[09:44:41] <ve2dmn> Look up Hans Rosling's presentation
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L338[09:47:01] <RandomJeb> I have a lot of words to say about poverty but they are pointless if segregated from the words about politics so
L339[09:47:07] <Fluburtur> well, I should put some order in my room and fix my canadair
L340[09:49:43] <ve2dmn> TIL about 'curl icanhazip.com'
L341[09:50:06] ⇨ Joins: EricPoehlsen (EricPoehlsen!~EricPoehl@88.128.80.16)
L342[09:50:29] <ve2dmn> RandomJeb: which is why I said to look up his presentation. It's really eye-opening if you've never seen it
L343[09:52:15] <ve2dmn> sadly, he's death now, so he can't speak for global health anymore
L344[09:52:55] <ve2dmn> but his tool lives on: https://www.gapminder.org/tools/#_chart-type=bubbles
L345[09:53:43] <ve2dmn> https://www.gapminder.org/answers/how-did-babies-per-woman-change-in-the-world/
L346[09:55:02] <Althego> ah the guy with the peak child presentation
L347[09:55:03] <Althego> i like that
L348[09:55:28] <Althego> it shows that the future is not impossible. 11 billion people can probably exist here
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L350[09:58:04] <Fluburtur> now for an important question
L351[09:58:14] <Fluburtur> should I order 1kg of potassium nitrate
L352[09:58:21] <Althego> obviously
L353[09:58:33] <Althego> does it have any special storage requirements?
L354[09:58:37] <Althego> probably not
L355[09:58:44] <Fluburtur> I don't think
L356[09:58:55] <APlayer> I only order kilograms of pure rubidium or caesium, no potassium (nitrates)
L357[09:58:59] <Althego> also 1 kg aluminium powder :)
L358[09:59:03] <Fluburtur> heh
L359[09:59:08] <Fluburtur> I could get some sulphur too
L360[09:59:31] <APlayer> And one of Elon's flamethrowers to go with that stuff
L361[09:59:32] <Fluburtur> but I think aluminium powder makes the combustion unstable
L362[09:59:36] <Gasher> and some sugar
L363[09:59:41] <Fluburtur> I already have sugar
L364[09:59:43] <Althego> not for that
L365[09:59:46] <Althego> for thermite
L366[09:59:51] <Fluburtur> oh
L367[10:00:05] <APlayer> So, uh, let's make a thermite SRB?
L368[10:00:07] <Fluburtur> 6€ for shipping?
L369[10:00:08] <Fluburtur> damn
L370[10:00:09] <Althego> hehe
L371[10:00:10] <Althego> yes
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L373[10:00:29] <Fluburtur> but it's still cheaper than amazon
L374[10:00:49] <Gasher> termite also does not need potassium nitrate Althego
L375[10:00:55] <Althego> i know
L376[10:00:57] <Althego> it is unrelated
L377[10:01:20] <Althego> but if ordering parts for explosives, why not
L378[10:01:52] <Althego> also termite eats its own food, obviously doesnt need fluburtur :)
L379[10:02:24] <Althego> silly english, thermite is not termite
L380[10:03:54] <APlayer> Let's make a termite SRB, then
L381[10:04:48] <ve2dmn> you can get everything online
L382[10:05:30] <Fluburtur> uh I don't want to make an account on a website to buy nitrate
L383[10:05:34] <ve2dmn> including radioactive elements (in very small quatities)
L384[10:05:35] <Fluburtur> and amazon is too expensive
L385[10:05:57] <ve2dmn> Fluburtur: how good is Amazon.fr ?
L386[10:06:45] <Fluburtur> nice but the nitrate is way too expensive
L387[10:07:20] <Fluburtur> like 1kg of it is 22€ and on another website it's 9€
L388[10:07:56] <RandomJeb> go out and do scrapings from wet concrete walls
L389[10:08:29] <Fluburtur> nah too lazy
L390[10:08:35] <Fluburtur> and I need good quality too
L391[10:08:40] <RandomJeb> gathering a kg in a city assuming some light breaking and entering abandoned buildings shouldn't take you more than a few days, though you should gather way more so you can remove pollutants later
L392[10:09:09] <ve2dmn> RandomJeb: *insert Detroit reference*
L393[10:09:42] <APlayer> "assuming some light breaking" No lights will be broken on my watch!
L394[10:09:46] <Fluburtur> listen I want to make a lot of rocket for rocket powered rc planes
L395[10:09:54] <Fluburtur> and it can't get any more kerbal really
L396[10:10:06] <APlayer> Fluburtur: Yes it can
L397[10:10:15] <APlayer> Mount the engine the wrong way by accident
L398[10:10:27] <RandomJeb> but run the fuel to it still
L399[10:10:50] <Fluburtur> APlayer I might try
L400[10:11:27] <RandomJeb> launch upside down but through a series of controlled events it should right itself and fly off
L401[10:11:35] <Fluburtur> 7€ for shipping what the heck
L402[10:11:42] <Fluburtur> but it's still the cheapest website of all
L403[10:11:49] <Pakaran> Booster mounted the wrong way to stand in for a ground attack missile?
L404[10:11:52] <APlayer> You're shipping 1 kg of hazardous material
L405[10:11:58] <APlayer> Of course it will be expensive
L406[10:12:25] <Pakaran> I had to pay that much to ship neodymium magnets. Well under a kg, but also longer distance.
L407[10:12:50] <Pakaran> apparently there's rules about the external magnetic field for packages shipped by air
L408[10:13:20] <Fluburtur> what will it be when im ordering plutonium ot make a homemade rtg then
L409[10:13:39] <RandomJeb> there's a surface level rad level rule as well
L410[10:13:42] <RandomJeb> forget how much
L411[10:13:51] <RandomJeb> but it's not very high
L412[10:14:59] <Pakaran> not surprising
L413[10:17:29] <Althego> hehe
L414[10:17:41] <Fluburtur> well, 1kg of nitrate is ordered
L415[10:17:53] <Althego> i doubt ordinary people can get plutonium
L416[10:17:56] <Fluburtur> now does someone know how to make good nozzles for candy rocket engines?
L417[10:18:03] <Althego> unless you create it yourself
L418[10:19:30] <Pakaran> I've made a boat with a smallish magnet and a wood chip.
L419[10:20:11] <Pakaran> put it in something shallow like a baking sheet, palm another magnet...
L420[10:20:17] <Pakaran> candy would corrode, though
L421[10:20:57] <Pakaran> Coffee stirrer?
L422[10:21:01] <Pakaran> Or candy straw?
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L428[11:32:26] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292820311760699392/407951140353867796/DSC_8324.JPG
L429[11:32:30] <Fluburtur> I did some cleaning
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L431[11:35:44] <Pakaran> nice. thought you were joking about the oscilloscope
L432[11:35:55] <Fluburtur> why would I joke about that
L433[11:48:33] <Mat2ch> "cleaning". :D
L434[11:48:43] <Mat2ch> well, you should see Car Gurus garage. :D
L435[11:49:09] <Fluburtur> I just wanted a place to put my scope
L436[11:50:53] <Fluburtur> uh
L437[11:51:11] <Fluburtur> I need a method to build rocket engine nozzles for my rocket candy engines
L438[11:52:44] <Mat2ch> you need a lathe
L439[11:53:03] <Fluburtur> I don't have that but I know someone that could help me
L440[11:53:18] <Fluburtur> I was thinking about making some sort of mold to easily make a lot of plaster nozzles
L441[11:53:44] <Fluburtur> but well, once that I have found the best nozzle deisng I can keep using it
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L447[12:16:21] <Mathuin> kOS question: do lexicons have order?
L448[12:16:25] <Gasher> Fluburtur, do you need something done on a lathe?
L449[12:21:22] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: lexicons?
L450[12:22:33] <ve2dmn> TIL
L451[12:24:18] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: I would imagine that like most associate array, they re organised by FIFO
L452[12:25:46] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: why not try DUMP and see what it returns?
L453[12:29:26] <ve2dmn> APlayer: ^
L454[12:30:00] <APlayer> No idea about lexicons either
L455[12:30:06] <APlayer> I just stick with lists
L456[12:30:51] <Fluburtur> Gasher yeah, rocket engine nozzles
L457[12:31:14] <Fluburtur> actually if the dude I contacted can make me turned nozzles I might ask him to make an aerospike
L458[12:31:22] <Fluburtur> I guess rocket candy isn't too hot
L459[12:31:22] <APlayer> Mathuin: Why do you want it to be ordered, though?
L460[12:32:33] <Fluburtur> Mat2ch since I want to make convergent-divergent nozzles I could make the shape of the inner part of the nozzle out of metal, cut it in half where it's the smallest and joint both parts with a bolt
L461[12:32:56] <Fluburtur> this way I can mold plaster around it, unboltit and remove the metal shape
L462[12:33:13] <Fluburtur> and I know how to work plaster quite well so it wouldn't be that hard
L463[12:33:14] <APlayer> Mathuin: I assume :KEYS returns the lexicon in the order it is stored
L464[12:33:51] <APlayer> And I second ve2dmn in that it is probably FIFO
L465[12:34:20] <Gasher> Fluburtur, maybe you'd need another hole for guiding stud to alide two halves together?
L466[12:34:41] <Fluburtur> what do you mean?
L467[12:35:44] <Gasher> you said that mold should be made of two halves cut at axis of the nozzle, right?
L468[12:35:58] <Fluburtur> yeah
L469[12:36:31] <Gasher> so i guess to put them together one to the other you need two holes with studs put in them to align them correct
L470[12:36:38] <Gasher> or is it too precise?
L471[12:37:08] <Gasher> like, reamed tapered holes
L472[12:37:18] <Fluburtur> guide pins you mean?
L473[12:37:39] <Gasher> i think it's how they are properly called
L474[12:38:04] <Fluburtur> I think if the center hole is precise enough it won't be needed
L475[12:39:12] <Gasher> well ok
L476[12:39:12] <Gasher> just suggesting
L477[12:40:39] <Fluburtur> and it won't be very big either
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L482[12:44:44] <Fluburtur> the section of the former wuld look like that https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/405528003997859842/407969345977974794/rocket_modl.jpg
L483[12:45:12] <Fluburtur> I guess that looks like a proper nozzle, maybe the throat isn't small enough
L484[12:45:31] <Fluburtur> but that's just to show how it's supposed to look
L485[12:46:25] <Gasher> you need something like a round cutting tool to make this profile in one operation
L486[12:47:29] <Fluburtur> well it wouldn't be as accurate as cad
L487[12:47:37] <Fluburtur> but would allow to mass produce them easily
L488[12:48:31] <Gasher> so you need this outer curved shape, right?
L489[12:48:47] <Fluburtur> well idk
L490[12:48:57] <Fluburtur> I would need to ask someone that knows how to calculaet nozzles
L491[12:49:51] <Gasher> hm, if you rotate the shape (or rather, mirror the drawing by Y) you can make it with just a 35 degree cutter
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L493[13:02:24] <Mathuin> My script's development has now gotten slightly expensive, since I've progressed enough to switch between vessels and that breaks revert.
L494[13:02:39] <ve2dmn> :/
L495[13:03:17] <Mathuin> But the bright side is that means I fixed the inter/intra vessel communications glitches.
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L497[13:06:22] <ve2dmn> how do you communicate between vessels? are you using the message queue?
L498[13:08:55] <Mathuin> SHIP:MESSAGES
L499[13:08:59] <Mathuin> Which I guess is a queue.
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L501[13:09:36] <ve2dmn> And does it reboot everytime you change vessels?
L502[13:16:28] <Mathuin> Yes, which causes my script to get all shirty.
L503[13:16:37] <Mathuin> But! I think I fixed it.
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L506[13:21:01] <ve2dmn> If status != landed, skip launch code :D
L507[13:21:50] <Mathuin> prelaunch, but basically
L508[13:22:02] <Mathuin> And it failed after deploying the first powered one.
L509[13:22:45] <Mathuin> I used 0 and 1 instead of false and true.
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L512[13:36:17] <Mathuin> No, it was a *different* failure. Again.
L513[13:40:22] <APlayer> Welcome to the world of programming, rocketry and Kerbal Space Program
L514[13:43:27] <ve2dmn> All-in-one!
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L519[13:52:03] <Mathuin> Last time, because I have to wake the baby and focus on thesis work.
L520[13:55:03] <Mathuin> When's the SpaceX thing again, the one scheduled for today?
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L522[13:55:41] <Mathuin> Ah, 1:23pm my time.
L523[13:55:48] <Mathuin> (that's when the live coverage starts)
L524[13:57:53] <ve2dmn> dammit. Completely forgot about it.... And I have a dinner with a pretty lady...
L525[13:58:20] <Mathuin> Alas, unless she's really into space, you'll probably have to wait. :-)
L526[13:58:47] <umaxtu> it just got pushed back abit
L527[13:59:05] <ve2dmn> even worse
L528[13:59:46] <ve2dmn> Anyway, the choise is pretty clear in my mind
L529[14:00:15] <ve2dmn> Forget all that, go home and play more videogames of course
L530[14:02:28] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: she's not really into space, and she's not really into me
L531[14:04:21] <umaxtu> don't worry its been scrubbed for today
L532[14:06:38] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: I hope you get what you need out of dinner then. :-)
L533[14:06:39] <ve2dmn> lol: the red line: http://nextrocket.space/
L534[14:07:15] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: can't say no to free food, and good conversations
L535[14:07:22] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: Truth.
L536[14:07:32] <Mathuin> Okay, this time it worked *without* rebooting.
L537[14:09:07] <Mathuin> The mission takes four days, but it does drop three probes into the proper orbit then deorbits the lifter.
L538[14:09:58] <ve2dmn> yay!
L539[14:10:15] <Mathuin> if ship:status = "PRELAUNCH" {
L540[14:10:28] <Mathuin> I ended up taking that out. :-)
L541[14:10:43] <Mathuin> https://hastebin.twilley.org/minadanimu -- relay_deploy.ks, runs on the processors attached to the relay nodes.
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L543[14:11:19] <Mathuin> if ship:status = "PRELAUNCH" {
L544[14:11:22] <Mathuin> !!!
L545[14:11:32] <Mathuin> https://hastebin.twilley.org/usaracocoh -- start script for lifter.
L546[14:11:48] <Mathuin> I will upload the craft file as soon as the mission finishes.
L547[14:11:54] <ve2dmn> ok
L548[14:12:38] <Draconiator> Mathuin, what exactly are you doing? making a mod?
L549[14:12:55] <ve2dmn> Draconiator: kOS
L550[14:13:03] <Mathuin> Draconiator: what I am doing is designing a mission which deploys three small probes in geostationary orbit, completely driven by kOS.
L551[14:13:28] <Draconiator> Ahhh cool.
L552[14:13:41] <Draconiator> so completely by itself. huh.
L553[14:13:59] <Mathuin> I have another relay mission for highly elliptical polar orbits. I want to unify that into a single mission like this, with alarm clocks to wait the 19 days or so between relay deployments.
L554[14:17:23] <Mathuin> I use RAMP scripts for stuff like launching into orbit, placing apo and peri nodes and executing them, stuff like that.
L555[14:17:45] <Mathuin> The relay_launch here is just like their launch except it doesn't deploy antennas or solar panels whose name tags are not the same as the nodes.
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L557[14:18:11] <Mathuin> Deploying my probe's stuff while it's still attached is bad. :-)
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L559[14:20:43] <Mathuin> ... now one truly insane mission would be to launch all five. Nah. Too complicated.
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L561[14:20:50] <Mathuin> Too much fuel.
L562[14:21:16] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: both Polar and equitarial?
L563[14:22:18] <Mathuin> Yeah.
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L565[14:23:00] <ve2dmn> You could put both lifter in orbit, split them and then run the missions sequentially
L566[14:23:34] <Mathuin> That's what I would do, but the polar probes would need enough fuel to change inclination *and* place the apoapsis at 95% of SOI radius.
L567[14:26:04] * darsie has now 90% reputation.
L568[14:26:49] * ve2dmn has a 100% reputation for useless chatter
L569[14:26:50] <darsie> Mat2ch: Increase apoapsis first.
L570[14:27:28] <Mathuin> This mission finishes with drops in the tank. 0.56 fuel with my new peri at 168.4 meters.
L571[14:27:31] <Mathuin> Pleasing.
L572[14:28:29] <darsie> That's very low. I hope you don't hit a hill.
L573[14:29:02] <ve2dmn> darsie: 169m on Kerbin? I think hills are the least of his troubles
L574[14:29:11] <darsie> Ohh, Kerbin.
L575[14:29:38] <ve2dmn> This makes a commnet then drop the lifter back down
L576[14:31:39] <ve2dmn> Man, the next few days are going to be hard. I have plenty do to at work, yet I'm getting Civ6 in Humble Monthly... AND FF12 is out on PC...
L577[14:31:46] <ve2dmn> plus F9H on feb6
L578[14:31:51] <Mathuin> https://kerbalx.com/mathuin/Test-Relay
L579[14:32:02] <ve2dmn> distractions, distractions, distractions
L580[14:32:23] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: if you're a Humble Monthly subscriber, you already *have* Civ6 -- wife and I have been playing for a while now.
L581[14:32:32] <Mathuin> And that link is to the craft, hope you like it.
L582[14:33:28] <Mathuin> If you *do* try it, let me now how it works!
L583[14:33:48] <Draconiator> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVlUquVlX6M
L584[14:33:48] <kmath> YouTube - VTOL Ship Test 2
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L588[14:44:33] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: early unlocks are only for some plans or if you renew in the current month
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L590[14:53:08] <Draconiator> https://i.gyazo.com/185eff3d0a991be3cf8c16018fe10c3b.png - I always seem to lose the tail on liftoff...too long maybe.
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L593[15:01:15] <Althego> 1.3.1 seem to get slower the longer it runs. especially scene changes. quite annoying
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L600[15:07:29] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: have you seen this? http://www.instructables.com/id/KerbalController-a-Custom-Control-Panel-for-Rocket/
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L606[15:56:36] <Mathuin> Yes, it looks fascinating.
L607[16:01:07] <ve2dmn> Anyway. time for that dinner. Later.
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L615[16:48:23] <Mat2ch> darsie: no no no. I like it in the atmosphere. It's warm here!
L616[16:48:38] <darsie> :)
L617[16:48:52] <darsie> I like deorbiting and skydiving.
L618[16:49:39] <darsie> Fly farther by flying head on. Steer while skydiving to splash down near the beach.
L619[16:49:57] <darsie> So I can swim to the KSC.
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L627[17:36:28] <Pakaran> hmm...
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L629[17:37:10] <Pakaran> actually, I'll just launch and see what happens. :)
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L636[18:49:16] <Draconiator> https://i.gyazo.com/db3db762f14a0e26e30552d2ea73d4d4.png
L637[18:54:54] <tawny-> beautiful
L638[18:56:32] <Draconiator> Flies like crap though, but it's possible to keep it under control.
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L641[19:01:20] <Pakaran> so liquid fueled craft in stock are still a bit new to me. On second thought, I think this is worth asking about.
L642[19:02:33] <Pakaran> With boosters, I'd assume, roughly, boosters to get off the pad and ideally into fairly horizontal flight in the stratosphere. First stage to 1500ish m/s, and second (and a bit of the transfer stage) to circularize.
L643[19:03:34] <Pakaran> Obviously without, the first and second stage have a bigger job (though they're lifting a much lighter craft). Should the second stage still get into an intercontinental, if not quite orbital, trajectory?
L644[19:03:56] <Pakaran> To the point where you only need a small apo kick, like in RSS?
L645[19:05:14] <Pakaran> I know I could fly this craft and get enough science to do it "right", but pushing the limits is fun.
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L663[20:51:06] <lordcirth> In stock, does relaying cost EC?
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L665[20:54:05] <Mathuin> Sciece I think so, remote control I don't.
L666[20:54:42] <NeverCast> How many hours would it take a competent programmer, but woeful artist, to get familiar with making props? I'm thinking making cockpits for some of my vessels in my KSP career. Personalized cockpits to the vessels capabilities. I figure there is probably a learning curve, of maybe 5-10 hours. Unity and PropTools etc. How long does taking an IVA take, ~1, ~3, ~5, >10 hours each?
L667[20:55:00] <NeverCast> s/taking/making/
L668[20:58:34] <TheKosmonaut> NeverCast: there are some great blender tutorials
L669[20:58:50] <TheKosmonaut> It depends on the person I suppose
L670[21:05:24] <taniwha> NeverCast: it's not perfect (many many flaws, sadly), but I have a tool for importing and exporting .mu models to/from blender
L671[21:05:48] <taniwha> https://github.com/taniwha/io_object_mu
L672[21:08:53] <NeverCast> Awesome! So that'll do exterior and interior modelling? Then I just slap some ASET Props on ?
L673[21:11:32] <NeverCast> taniwha: There is an open issue for IVA Props. Is that the interior view that is lacking?
L674[21:12:14] <taniwha> interior views are done as separate models
L675[21:13:00] <taniwha> that issue (#2) is about making it easier to place props in an internal model
L676[21:13:10] <taniwha> ie, it will create the .cfg file for you
L677[21:13:44] <taniwha> unfortunately, doing such in blender in a nice way is not something I've been able solve yet
L678[21:14:35] <taniwha> hmm, however, I've got my hands on some interesting tools (hardops) that might provide some inspiration
L679[21:14:42] <NeverCast> taniwha: It can be done fairly interactively in Unity can it not? I thought I saw screenshots demonstrating that it should be laid out in Unity, my assumption was that the config was generated.
L680[21:14:47] <taniwha> (just remembered /why/ I got them)
L681[21:15:07] <taniwha> NeverCast: my goal is to remove the need for unity
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L683[21:16:24] <NeverCast> taniwha: Are you focusing on RPM or MAS?
L684[21:16:40] <taniwha> ???
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L686[21:16:49] <taniwha> raster prop monitor? and what's MAS?
L687[21:16:58] <taniwha> (and no, no focus on any mods)
L688[21:17:51] <NeverCast> It was my assumption that the layout of props was not mod independant. Is this incorrect
L689[21:18:43] <taniwha> I'm not sure how to answer that. Even stock does prop layout
L690[21:19:36] <NeverCast> I could just be misinformed. I thought that some extra config work was required for non-stock props.
L691[21:20:05] <taniwha> only in that you need to modify the configs in Squad/Spaces
L692[21:20:16] <taniwha> ie, not really any different to creating new parts
L693[21:20:31] <taniwha> RPM is just a very specific set of props
L694[21:20:38] <taniwha> dunno about MAS, first I've heard of it
L695[21:20:59] <NeverCast> Alternative (and in some ways, a rewrite) of RPM: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/160856-wip-13x-moardvs-avionics-systems-mas-interactive-iva-v0120-27-january-2018/
L696[21:21:17] <taniwha> yeah, just found it
L697[21:22:16] <taniwha> anyway, IVA prop creation and placement is independent of RPM or MAS
L698[21:22:20] <NeverCast> Things like the hitbox, guards, toggle switches, lights and "glowy" bits can be stacked together to create a single prop. That's the premise of it anyway.
L699[21:22:33] <taniwha> though RPM or MAS will provide nice functionality for your props
L700[21:23:09] <taniwha> fundamentally, IVA props aren't any different to parts
L701[21:23:31] <NeverCast> This is good to know. Saves learning the details of RPM/MAS for another day.
L702[21:23:35] <taniwha> hmm... /that/ would be an interesting mod: an in-game IVA editor
L703[21:23:41] <NeverCast> ^ Agreed.
L704[21:23:56] <taniwha> (not something for which I have the time or motivation, though)
L705[21:24:27] <NeverCast> Obviously still requires external modelling, but the placement and "Property Editing" of props in game would be, nice.
L706[21:24:30] <NeverCast> (nor I)
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L708[21:26:00] <NeverCast> taniwha: Your tool. Can I pull in a stock part and tweak it's model from there? I'm assuming I can.
L709[21:26:16] <taniwha> you can, within limits
L710[21:26:18] <NeverCast> I assume it's import/export in both directions.
L711[21:26:36] <taniwha> many animations won't survive (textures, lights(?) etc)
L712[21:26:56] <taniwha> but location/scale/rotation animations /do/ survive
L713[21:27:22] <NeverCast> Ah. Lights are in model data?
L714[21:27:33] <NeverCast> "textures, etc" What else is there?
L715[21:27:38] <taniwha> ah, it looks like light animations do survive
L716[21:27:45] <NeverCast> I assumed most of it was in cfg. The model being, as it sounds, a model.
L717[21:28:16] <NeverCast> Light animations I assumed is a lerp between two textures. But again I've not worked on a prop before.
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L719[21:30:07] <taniwha> things like the animation of emissivity for engine bells
L720[21:30:48] <NeverCast> Ah I see. Essentially shader properties can have their values transitioned
L721[21:30:51] <NeverCast> That's stored in the .mu
L722[21:32:12] <taniwha> yeah, shader values are in the .mu
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L724[21:32:57] <NeverCast> Is the format of the .mu fairly "Modular", or is the format specific? i.e. Can you skip over the shader values, and then patch them in again when you export?
L725[21:33:46] <taniwha> it's /fairly/ specific, but the actual loader/writer module is very separate (mu.py)
L726[21:33:49] <NeverCast> The format being some hierarchy format for example may allow part of the tree to be ignored on import, but rewritten on export. It'll take me a little while to derive the .mu format from your source
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L728[21:34:08] <taniwha> I've used it at the core of several non-blender utilities (all in the same directory)
L729[21:34:31] <taniwha> so you can load a model, do some scripted tweaks, and write it out again
L730[21:34:50] <NeverCast> That means that MuEnum is complete then, nothing is discarded?
L731[21:35:02] <taniwha> correct
L732[21:35:06] <NeverCast> Only that there isn't a Blender use for it. Gotcha
L733[21:36:40] <taniwha> due to some blender specific tweaks being done to the data when loading (triangle vertex order, vector handedness), the load/save cycle isn't perfect
L734[21:36:48] <NeverCast> Animation has Clips has Curves has Keyframes ?
L735[21:37:05] <taniwha> also, there were some bugs in the older versions of the format that my code cleaned up
L736[21:37:14] <taniwha> I think so, yeah
L737[21:37:23] <taniwha> I've forgotten the details
L738[21:37:47] <NeverCast> Well done on the implementation. It looks painfully tedious
L739[21:38:13] <taniwha> I got some help from Mike (Mu) :)
L740[21:39:16] <NeverCast> If this could be broken in to a tree of values. That would probably be sufficient.
L741[21:39:49] <taniwha> the loaded data becomes a tree of objects
L742[21:40:04] <NeverCast> Just no way at this time to see it in Blender. I understand.
L743[21:41:09] <NeverCast> What if the output from mu->blender drops blender model + tree file. Properties are edible in the blender->mu process? I assume you have a desired implementation already in mind tho
L744[21:41:55] <taniwha> take a look at export_mu.py, I guess
L745[21:43:08] <NeverCast> Ah I see, MuObject is the tree nodes
L746[21:46:28] <NeverCast> taniwha: export_mu takes the blender info, builds the .mu. You have a collect animations. Where are they coming from? Nowhere at this stage?
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L749[21:47:01] <taniwha> blender's animation data
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L752[21:47:16] <taniwha> NLA strips etc
L753[21:47:30] <taniwha> er, tracks
L754[21:47:32] <NeverCast> I've got confused along the way. What adata is lost?
L755[21:47:38] <NeverCast> s/adata/data
L756[21:47:57] ⇨ Joins: Aviatior101 (Aviatior101!webchat@ip68-225-198-68.ph.ph.cox.net)
L757[21:48:26] <taniwha> mostly non-positional animations (ran out of steam while figuring out how to translate between blender and mu)
L758[21:48:33] <Aviatior101> hello
L759[21:48:37] <Mod9000> Hello, Aviatior101
L760[21:49:12] <lordcirth> I've enabled Advanced Tweakables in this new save, but autostrut isn't showing up? 1.3.1
L761[21:49:28] <Aviatior101> How do I go faster in the atmosphere without burning up
L762[21:49:33] <Aviatior101> ?
L763[21:49:53] <NeverCast> Aviatior101: Higher up, or radiators might help
L764[21:49:55] <lordcirth> Aviatior101, for what reason?
L765[21:50:14] <Aviatior101> To circum navigate the globe
L766[21:50:22] <Aviatior101> I was racing a friend
L767[21:50:38] <NeverCast> Aviatior101: Go to 22k, you can cruise comfortably at 1000m/s there, almost no heat
L768[21:50:52] <Aviatior101> ok
L769[21:51:20] <Aviatior101> also what is the best high altitude stock engine
L770[21:51:32] <Aviatior101> is it the whiplash afterburner?
L771[21:51:41] <NeverCast> Whiplash doesn't have afterburner I don't think
L772[21:51:51] <NeverCast> Though at Mach 3.5ish, that's the fastest speed
L773[21:51:52] <Aviatior101> oh
L774[21:52:04] <NeverCast> I've a dual Whiplash plane that does 1020m/s at 21.5k
L775[21:52:14] <taniwha> isn't the whiplash the ramjet?
L776[21:52:21] <Aviatior101> cool
L777[21:52:32] <NeverCast> I believe so, it's a high velocity engine. No afterburner
L778[21:52:54] <Aviatior101> I made a concorde plane but afte pasing 1200m/s it would explode
L779[21:53:02] <NeverCast> Altitude?
L780[21:53:56] <NeverCast> taniwha: That sounds like your import/export is mostly done then. I'm not sure what you mean by non-positional. You mean animations that alter other properties, like the shader properties?
L781[21:53:57] <Aviatior101> i don't know but It was the highest I could go without the engine losing performance
L782[21:54:06] <NeverCast> Let it lose performance.
L783[21:54:13] <Aviatior101> ok
L784[21:54:18] <Aviatior101> if you say so
L785[21:54:22] <NeverCast> If the air is thinner, as long as you still gain speed
L786[21:54:30] <Aviatior101> yeah
L787[21:54:47] <taniwha> NeverCast: correct, other properties
L788[21:54:49] <NeverCast> You're racing. Efficiency isn't really the point.
L789[21:55:04] <Aviatior101> I guess
L790[21:55:08] <taniwha> light intensity is the only non-positional property that works
L791[21:55:20] <taniwha> (positional includes scale and rotation)
L792[21:56:00] <NeverCast> Aviatior101: At 22k, the Whiplash is only making about 40kN of thrust, each. But since the air is thin, you don't need a lot of thrust to maintain speed
L793[21:56:14] <Aviatior101> yeah
L794[21:56:42] <Aviatior101> I will just have to change my design so I dont lose altitude
L795[21:57:00] <Aviatior101> Thanks guys
L796[21:57:08] <Aviatior101> I have to get going
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L800[21:58:12] <NeverCast> Faster is always the answer for altitude loss (Y)
L801[21:58:19] <NeverCast> Also idk why he isn't using RAPIER.
L802[21:58:50] <taniwha> more importantly, anybody flying planes should use FAR
L803[21:58:52] <NeverCast> taniwha: Is the issue integrating it in to Blender, or understanding the format to begin with?
L804[21:59:01] ⇨ Joins: Aviatior101 (Aviatior101!webchat@ip68-225-198-68.ph.ph.cox.net)
L805[21:59:08] <taniwha> integration
L806[21:59:09] <NeverCast> Welcome back, use FAR, use RAPIER
L807[21:59:31] <tawny-> I kinda hate that there are no options that are at all better than the rapier
L808[21:59:44] <NeverCast> Go faster. That'll keep your altitude
L809[21:59:54] <NeverCast> tawny-: You mean in stock?
L810[21:59:57] <Aviatior101> haha
L811[22:00:00] <tawny-> yeah
L812[22:00:03] <taniwha> NeverCast: rapiers are overrated ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99pJQKyFi6k&t=1s
L813[22:00:04] <kmath> YouTube - Tobineko to Orbit
L814[22:00:04] *** tawny- is now known as tawny
L815[22:00:28] <Aviatior101> I always felt rapiers were under powered
L816[22:00:32] <NeverCast> tawny: Aye. But at 2100m/s you're probably trying to leave atmo.
L817[22:00:47] <NeverCast> Aviatior101: Go faster. Their power comes on around Mach 4
L818[22:01:19] <taniwha> (sorry about the tedium of the vid)
L819[22:01:33] <NeverCast> taniwha: 2.0x play speed
L820[22:01:51] <taniwha> that would help :)
L821[22:01:56] <Aviatior101> do engine precoolers do anything
L822[22:02:44] <NeverCast> Yes. They cool the engine.
L823[22:02:51] <NeverCast> Also I believe they are heavy.
L824[22:02:54] <Aviatior101> do they ad power
L825[22:03:03] <Aviatior101> *add
L826[22:03:12] <NeverCast> Hm. I can't accurately answer that one. I've never seen a performance/temperature chart for an engine
L827[22:03:27] <NeverCast> I figure, if it doesn't go over 99 percent max heat. It's fine
L828[22:03:37] <taniwha> Aviatior101: I suspect they rob some power
L829[22:03:53] <Aviatior101> really
L830[22:03:56] <NeverCast> They are intakes iirc. So they add drag
L831[22:04:08] <taniwha> the point of precoolers is to prevent the engine from melting from compression heat
L832[22:04:18] <Aviatior101> I thought that by adding more oxygen they add more thrust
L833[22:04:37] <Aviatior101> ok
L834[22:04:58] <NeverCast> I know there was some changes around 1.0.2 that meant spamming intakes doesn't make your planes superhuman anymore. But I can't weigh in on the new mechanics because I haven't spent the time looking in to it
L835[22:05:33] <Aviatior101> so I should keep them on my plane just to reduce the percentage of flamout
L836[22:05:52] <NeverCast> Honestly I'd advise testing it.
L837[22:06:15] <NeverCast> Get a plane auto-pilot, lock your vertical assent to +2m/s and timewarp
L838[22:06:20] <NeverCast> See what altitude it flames out at
L839[22:06:51] <NeverCast> Feel free to use faster ascent if your plane doesn't care. Just keep it the same for each test
L840[22:07:01] <Aviatior101> ok
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L842[22:07:25] <Aviatior101> I will test that later
L843[22:07:42] <Mathuin> KIS question not answered in the manual: how do I bring an object along that says "Carrried by the kerbal" and "KIS Item Carried on: jetpack"?
L844[22:07:47] <Mathuin> I cannot put it in seat inventory.
L845[22:07:53] <Mathuin> I can put it on the craft, but that seems amazingly dumb.
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L847[22:08:03] <NeverCast> Kramax Autopilot Continued, Aviatior101. It's auto-land/takeoff still needs baby-sitting.
L848[22:08:07] <NeverCast> Oh you left ok.
L849[22:08:07] <Mathuin> I can't put it on the kerbal in the crew portion of the SPH.
L850[22:08:31] <Mathuin> My favorite autopilot is Atmosphere Autopilot or something. Its fly-by-wire is sweet.
L851[22:08:45] <NeverCast> I'll look in to it.
L852[22:09:13] <NeverCast> As for your issue. Not one I've encounted but iirc, carried by Kerbal still needs to be stored in a kerbal accessable storage during flight. Retrieved by EVA
L853[22:09:35] <Mathuin> Sure. Isn't the seat inventory "kerbal-accessible storage"?
L854[22:09:44] <NeverCast> Yes, so is the storage pods
L855[22:09:46] <Mathuin> Or do I need to bolt a container on my plane just to hold this thing?
L856[22:09:53] <NeverCast> Depends on it's volume
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L859[22:10:10] <Mathuin> Right-clicked the cabin, clicked 'Seat 0 inventory'.
L860[22:10:17] <Mathuin> I have an eight-slot inventory window.
L861[22:10:21] <NeverCast> Aye
L862[22:10:47] <Mathuin> I go to the science tab, click on SALLI the laser thing.
L863[22:11:15] <NeverCast> Drag it in to the inventory window?
L864[22:11:17] <NeverCast> what happens
L865[22:11:34] <Mathuin> It hides behind th einventory window
L866[22:11:37] <Mathuin> I did it three times just to make sure.
L867[22:11:43] <NeverCast> Did you drag or click and move?
L868[22:11:50] <NeverCast> Only drag works
L869[22:11:54] <Mathuin> Wrenches aren't working either
L870[22:11:57] <Mathuin> Okay, trying drag
L871[22:12:07] <NeverCast> Click and move is for placing on vessel.
L872[22:12:38] <Mathuin> Okay, Carriable items cannot be stored in the seat's inventory.
L873[22:12:52] <NeverCast> Can you put it in a storage pod?
L874[22:12:57] <NeverCast> or whatever they are called.
L875[22:13:12] <NeverCast> Make sure it says it can be accessed by EVA, I don't think it needs to be accessed internally
L876[22:13:33] <Mathuin> SC-62 Portable Container
L877[22:13:40] <Mathuin> I have to bolt this onto my plane first?
L878[22:14:32] <NeverCast> There is an inline option. But you can probably put it in a service bay also
L879[22:14:38] <NeverCast> Especially if you have TweakScale
L880[22:15:05] <Mathuin> Oh no. I need to put on a bracket.
L881[22:15:08] <Mathuin> No service bays here
L882[22:15:24] <NeverCast> You haven't unlocked them?
L883[22:15:27] <Mathuin> I have installed an SM-62 Container Mount.
L884[22:15:39] <NeverCast> If you have EEX, then pressing T lets you surface mount almost anything.
L885[22:16:50] <NeverCast> Also, once you get the item in to the kerbals inventory, it needs to be unstacked, then I think you right click and equip
L886[22:16:59] <Mathuin> Okay. I now have a giant stupid box on the spine of my plane.
L887[22:17:04] <Mathuin> Airflow sigh.
L888[22:17:12] <Mathuin> The giant stupid box has a single laser beam thing in it.
L889[22:17:17] <NeverCast> Just put the box inside the plane inside a service bay or something
L890[22:17:30] <Mathuin> I don't have a service bay.
L891[22:17:34] <NeverCast> Not unlocked?
L892[22:17:39] <Mathuin> That is correct.
L893[22:17:47] <NeverCast> Do you have any cargo parts?
L894[22:17:50] <Mathuin> No.
L895[22:18:02] <NeverCast> Are you using ferram aerospace?
L896[22:18:31] <NeverCast> If yes, clip it in to the plane with enough space for your kerbal to click on it. If not. Yes, Rip Airflow
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L898[22:20:31] <Aviatior101> hey does anyone want to have a casual chat about something in ksp
L899[22:20:33] <Mathuin> So for fun on the runway, I got out and tried to get the widget to put it on the backpack.
L900[22:21:11] <NeverCast> Mathuin: Let me know when KIS makes you rage.
L901[22:21:19] <NeverCast> Once you learn it, you rage less.
L902[22:21:37] <Mathuin> Right now I don't see how it could ever work.
L903[22:21:48] <Aviatior101> What is KIS?
L904[22:21:54] <Mod9000> Aviatior101, KIS = Kerbal Inventory System (a mod often used together with KAS)
L905[22:22:20] <Mathuin> When I get the item out of the box, how do I put it on the kerbal?
L906[22:22:37] <Aviatior101> ok
L907[22:22:55] <NeverCast> Mathuin: Drag it in to the Kerbals inventory to start, I think
L908[22:22:58] <NeverCast> Then you can right-click it
L909[22:23:08] <NeverCast> Also if you drop it. Use G to grab
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L911[22:23:18] <NeverCast> Gosh I wish I knew Grab before I lost a bunch of batteries in orbit around Kerbin
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L913[22:24:14] ⇨ Joins: Ksprocks (Ksprocks!webchat@ip68-3-152-154.ph.ph.cox.net)
L914[22:24:21] <Ksprocks> Hi
L915[22:24:22] <Mod9000> Hello, Ksprocks
L916[22:24:35] <Ksprocks> Wat is this
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L920[22:25:26] <Aviatior101> hi Ksprocks
L921[22:25:47] <Aviatior101> It is your friend
L922[22:26:18] ⇨ Joins: Ksprocks (Ksprocks!webchat@ip68-3-152-154.ph.ph.cox.net)
L923[22:26:21] <Ksprocks> Hi
L924[22:26:23] <Mod9000> Hello, Ksprocks
L925[22:26:24] <Aviatior101> hi
L926[22:26:25] <Mod9000> Hello, Aviatior101
L927[22:26:26] <Ksprocks> Aviator
L928[22:26:29] <Ksprocks> Yo
L929[22:26:38] <Ksprocks> So wat is this
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L931[22:27:08] <Aviatior101> It is a live chat room to ask questions, give answers, and have fun
L932[22:27:19] <Mathuin> NeverCast: Okay, dragged it into the kerbal's inventory, and it's now my huge backpack.
L933[22:29:11] <Mathuin> When I go to *use* it, it says "Not enough ElectricCharge, shutting down experiment".
L934[22:29:15] <Aviatior101> are there any mods with pulse jets
L935[22:30:21] <NeverCast> Mathuin: Maybe you need to rip a battery off the plane and carry that with you? haha
L936[22:30:32] <NeverCast> Or you need to charge it while it's in the vessel? I do not know
L937[22:30:39] <Aviatior101> hello
L938[22:30:40] <Mod9000> Hello, Aviatior101
L939[22:31:11] <NeverCast> Aviatior101: I don't know personally. But if you google "KSP Pulse Jet" you might get lucky.
L940[22:31:23] <Aviatior101> ok
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L942[22:38:50] <Mathuin> Searching the fine web for that string doesn't help.
L943[22:39:02] <Mathuin> Mine, I mean, not yours. :-)
L944[22:39:40] <Mathuin> I tried carring a battery, I tried putting the device on the ground (which makes the motions look right) and putting the battery on it, nothing worked.
L945[22:42:50] <Mathuin> O M G
L946[22:43:00] <Mathuin> I just bolted it onto the plane, and it worked.
L947[22:45:59] <Mathuin> I guess if I *had* a service bay, I could store it there, take it out, put it on, get the science, then put it away.
L948[22:46:05] <Mathuin> But that seems a little insane.
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