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L4[00:03:41] <Mathuin> Silly question -- if
the separator says "enable crossfeed", do I click the
button to enable crossfeed or is it already enabled?
L5[00:03:53] <Mathuin> Another silly
question -- does crossfeed include electricity as well as
fuel?
L6[00:05:15] <umaxtu> click to enable and I
don't think so
L7[00:05:29] <Mathuin> So if it *says*
enable, it's disabled.
L8[00:05:32] <Mathuin> And vice versa
L9[00:05:34] <umaxtu> yeah
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L12[00:07:26] <Gasher[work]> i think
electricity is always drained from all of the parts and it does not
follow crossfeed rules for fuel
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L19[00:57:09] <taniwha> Mathuin:
enable/disable are verbs, thus the button is an action,
enabled/disabled are adjectives thus the button indicates
state
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L21[01:21:54] <Mathuin> That does kinda
make sense.
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L23[01:31:51] <Neal> interesting, the x47a
and x47b prototypes are sitting out in the open in google maps
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6404039,-118.0837159,36a,35y,40.88h,57.93t/data=!3m1!1e3
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L26[01:56:02] <Mathuin> Very pretty
craft.
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L62[04:26:06] <Glass|phone> I just saw a
sign that said "earthquake! put out the fire!"
L63[04:26:29] <Glass|phone> I don't even
have a fireplace in my house anymore
L64[04:27:02] <Mat2ch> We use electrons
now. It's the better fire.
L65[04:28:19] <Mat2ch> do you have devices
that register earthquakes and cut the main breaker?
L66[04:28:27] <petti> the only best fire is
the glow of atoms
L67[04:28:36] <Mat2ch> fusion fire!
L68[04:30:28] <Glass|phone> Mat2ch: those
are called 'collapsing utility poles'
L69[04:31:38] *
Mat2ch gives Glass|phone a fav
L70[04:32:09] <Gasher[work]> lol
L71[04:33:10] <Mat2ch> back to work. My
articles don't write themselves :|
L72[04:41:11] <Althego> they should
then
L73[04:43:37] <Mat2ch> Nah, I don't like AI
written articles
L74[04:43:43] <Mat2ch> I prefer human
ones
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L93[05:47:07] <GlassYuri> according to
twitter I speak eight languages
L94[05:47:13] <Fluburtur> not bad
L95[05:47:45] <Gasher[work]> he speaks all
of them - and none
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L97[05:50:22] <GlassYuri> ...apparently
german carmakers conducted human experiements with exhaust
gases
L98[05:50:41] <GlassYuri> can't outrun your
past I guess </sarcasm>
L99[05:53:47] <Fluburtur> maybe it's an
hydrogen motor
L100[05:54:43] <Gasher[work]> lol
L101[05:56:19] <GlassYuri> also twitter
has a list of my interests
L102[05:56:45] <GlassYuri> and the only
way I can explain that is that it ignores all japanese and chinese
language tweets in my timeline
L103[05:56:59] <GlassYuri> which would be
somewhat below 102% of all
L104[05:58:31] <GlassYuri> a fifth of them
seem to come from following elon musk
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L106[05:59:34] <GlassYuri> another fifth
is just "gaming" repeated over and over
L107[05:59:35] <Mat2ch> GlassYuri: please,
no, not you, too. This is not funny
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L109[05:59:50] <GlassYuri> what is not
funny?
L110[06:00:05] <Mat2ch> gas chambers are
not funny. Never.
L111[06:00:27] <Mat2ch> and those
experiments were done for a totally different reason
L112[06:01:17] <GlassYuri> what is funny
is that nobody took a step back and questioned if they should
actually do that
L113[06:01:18] <Mat2ch> and the test
persons were doing this voluntary
L114[06:01:57] <Mat2ch> GlassYuri: it was
a test for work security and the exposure used was below the legal
limits
L115[06:01:59] <GlassYuri> and yeah the
reason was to show that their cars are not helpful when they are
rigged to pass the test
L116[06:02:12] <GlassYuri>
s/helpful/harmful
L117[06:02:31] <GlassYuri> Mat2ch, okay, I
did not know that
L118[06:02:40] <GlassYuri> but the monkey
test was some rigged BS
L119[06:02:47] <Mat2ch> yeah, I know.
emotions > facts and such things
L120[06:03:02] <Mat2ch> The media is so
broken those days
L121[06:03:05] <GlassYuri> Mat2ch, it was
literally not reported in the articles I consulted
L122[06:03:47] <GlassYuri> so I guess all
that china madness in my timeline is "language learning"
and "adventure travel"
L123[06:04:37] <Mat2ch> GlassYuri: all
forgiven
L124[06:04:39] <GlassYuri> somehow there
are no trains in there, not even "transportation"
L125[06:05:04] <Mat2ch> but making jokes
about Germans and gas chambers, haw haw, funny newspapers and
everything.
L126[06:05:30] <Mat2ch> There's nothing
funny about Nazi Germany. I know that people make jokes about
things they can't grasp/understand
L127[06:05:39] <Mat2ch> but a good
newspaper would never do it.
L128[06:05:52] <Mat2ch> They would report
the truth, as hard as it may be.
L129[06:06:32] <GlassYuri> everything is
funny about nazi germany, in a way, if you consider that humour is
a natural coping mechanism
L130[06:07:02] <Gasher[work]> coping
mechanism for life in general i'd say
L131[06:09:22] <Deddly> OK people, as has
been stated, that's no laughing matter, and it's definitely not an
appropriate thing to joke about in this community, please.
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L138[06:40:44] <Deddly> Fluburtur,
whatever it is, I need one
L139[06:41:08] <Fluburtur> google that
model then
L140[06:43:47] *
Mat2ch looks at Fluburtur
L141[06:43:59] <Mat2ch> You set the
language to French? :D
L142[06:44:11] <Fluburtur> it was already
set
L143[06:45:38] <Mat2ch> Autoset. Very
french. Anuller, ok, I understand that, but what is Moyenne?
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L146[06:52:38] <Fluburtur> moyenne is
average
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L162[07:30:36] <Mat2ch> ah
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L172[07:47:04] <Pakaran> Hi, so I just
deleted and re-downloaded my stock game. I'm thinking about either
starting a career game in normal, or a science game in moderate,
difficulty and reverting less frequently.
L173[07:47:40] <Judge_Dedd> Hi
Pakaran
L174[07:47:58] <Judge_Dedd> Sounds like
fun :)
L175[07:48:02] <Pakaran> Then just play it
out. Stock is fun, and I'll go with a few realism mods like FAR
later on.
L176[07:48:08] <Fluburtur> can I charge my
pjone from my oscilloscope?
L177[07:48:16] <Fluburtur> would make it
the most expensive charger I have
L178[07:49:00] <Pakaran> I don't usually
use stock craft for rockets. However, for planes (even for things
like a pair comm dishes a third of the way around Kerbin)...
L179[07:49:54] <Pakaran> I don't usually
try designing, because I have no clue where to put how much wing to
get something that can even launch from a runway without small
booster silliness, much less maintain level flight long enough to
worry about fuel.
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L181[07:50:11] <Judge_Dedd> Pakaran, so
you land the plane with some antennae on the ground and leave it
there?
L182[07:50:21] <Pakaran> that was my
idea.
L183[07:50:26] <Judge_Dedd> Sounds like a
good idea
L184[07:50:42] <Judge_Dedd> Pakaran, but
then don't forget to turn off the ground stations
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L189[07:54:57] <Pakaran> Stock has
multiple ground stations?
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L191[07:55:22] <Althego> if you leave the
default options on
L192[07:55:28] <Pakaran> Thanks.
L193[07:55:30] <Althego> but you can turn
them off
L194[07:55:39] <Althego> and you can also
set up apparent curvature of kerbin
L195[07:55:42] <Pakaran> I think moderate
difficulty science game is reasonable for what I want to do.
L196[07:55:45] <Althego> for comm
network
L197[07:55:54] <Althego> so even the
multiple stations may be blocked out
L198[07:56:08] <Pakaran> I don't have to
worry about mishaps resulting in crew loss, and can wait out
respawns by hiring someone else.
L199[07:56:39] <Pakaran> But do need to
set up some kind of com network.
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L204[08:10:10] <Pakaran> Getting
satellites in precise orbits sounds even more finicky than
designing planes that fly :/
L205[08:10:27] <Pakaran> I suppose that's
just because, in stock especially, I'm used to rockets.
L206[08:11:28] <Judge_Dedd> Pakaran, you
mean for contracts?
L207[08:11:42] <Pakaran> To act as commnet
relays.
L208[08:12:00] <Judge_Dedd> Oh, well I
suppose that needs to be more precise, yeah
L209[08:12:07] <Pakaran> Contracts are fun
in stock, but if I'm pushing to moderate difficulty, I'd worry
about crew getting expensive.
L210[08:12:26] <Judge_Dedd> Crew is free
is you do rescue missions
L211[08:12:30] <Judge_Dedd> if*
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L213[08:12:59] <Pakaran> Especially on,
you know, Mun landing attempt 8, less top heavy this time.
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L215[08:14:09] <Pakaran> Ooh, and any
craft that can land on Mun can, with a probe core and ideally
electrical system, do rescue missions via EVA over in LKO?
L216[08:14:46] <Judge_Dedd> I would be
surprised if it couldn't
L218[08:15:27] <Fluburtur> no but I did
plan to
L219[08:15:37] <Fluburtur> in fact I could
probably make one right now
L220[08:16:08] <Fluburtur> anyways, I have
to go meet with peoples soon so I will look into that later
L221[08:16:12] <Pakaran> I'll start the
game now :)
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L225[08:32:29] <Pakaran>
https://imgur.com/a/m0eEz Just need to save and go
accept contract. No fancy thrust limiting for the first launch, Jeb
will be just fine. It is slightly scary that this craft also costs
1297 of my 15k starting funds, 8.6%, but it's fully recoverable and
I'm not going to be landing it under power on any ships.
L227[08:34:45] <Pakaran> yeah, contracts
pay for it easily.
L228[08:35:44] <Pakaran> aaand a goo for
the pad, another for flight.
L230[08:44:47] <Pakaran> Got 100k funds.
I'll worry less about money now, there's always hand editing.
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L246[09:59:54] <ve2dmn> good morning
L247[10:02:31] <Pakaran> morning
L249[10:08:45] <ve2dmn> I now have to
desorbit all my space station to replace them with more
awesome
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L252[10:23:49] <Judge_Dedd> ve2dmn, or you
could convert all your space stations into interplanetary large
impact research studies
L253[10:24:21] <ve2dmn> I'll have to do a
crew rotation first
L254[10:24:43] <Judge_Dedd> Looks like a
really nice mod
L255[10:24:51] <Pakaran> Like knock Minmus
into a lower orbit for convenient mining?
L256[10:25:21] <ve2dmn> I was using the
previous one (from the same author) for the big nodes
L257[10:26:31] <ve2dmn> But now he
re-wrote everything and the 2 mods are different beast now
L258[10:26:34] <Pakaran> Wow.
L259[10:26:42] <Pakaran> Is the pictured
station inspired by 2001?
L260[10:26:53] <ve2dmn> So I can have both
at the same time, but the old one is unsupported now
L261[10:27:01] <Pakaran> Babylon 5 has a
wide central cylinder, not a habitat ring, so not that.
L262[10:27:05] <Pakaran> aah
L263[10:27:29] <Pakaran> full IVA?!
L264[10:27:30] <Pakaran> that's
insane
L265[10:27:50] <Pakaran> let's see.
L266[10:28:27] <ve2dmn> All my space
stations have parts from the old mod.
L267[10:28:29] <ve2dmn> :/
L268[10:28:44] <Pakaran> I should be able
to get out of atmosphere this time. I'm definitely ahead of the
money curve, just got launchpad level 2 as well.
L269[10:29:07] <Pakaran> Which also means
I can burn science to get the big 1.25m fuel tanks if I really need
part count later on...
L270[10:29:13] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: want to
be rolling in $? Get tourists!
L271[10:29:18] <Pakaran> sorry if I'm
spamming, mostly thinking out loud at this point.
L272[10:29:49] <Pakaran> ve2dmn, :) you
came in just after I mentioned, I nuked and reinstalled my stock
game simply because it'd been awhile.
L273[10:30:19] <Pakaran> and folks talked
me into going to moderate difficulty career mode, a bigger step up
than I planned on.
L274[10:31:06] <Pakaran> Closest thing to
a tourist unlocked is a radial decoupler that wants to be hauled
into flight over Kerbin.
L275[10:31:09] <ve2dmn> I do custom:
Moderate + buying parts in the R&D
L276[10:31:18] <Pakaran> I'm very tempted
to grant its wish.
L277[10:31:37] <ve2dmn> You could also
install Tourism plus
L278[10:31:47] <Pakaran> Let it and a few
friends, and a few big boosters, haul a 2 or 3 stage liquid rocket
into flight over kerbin.
L279[10:31:54] <Pakaran> Be hauled, oh,
excuse me.
L280[10:32:43] <Pakaran> In all
seriousness, the more I think about this, the more I think I might
be able to get orbit, not just spaceflight, on my third
launch.
L281[10:33:38] <Pakaran> and both of those
2 are world-first contracts, so I can actually take the
haul...
L282[10:33:46] <Pakaran> Ok, it's a cheat,
but it sounds fun.
L283[10:35:17] <ve2dmn> Spaceflight is
easy: 1 or 2 booster (depending on model), a capsule, 2
parachutes
L284[10:35:17] <Pakaran>
https://imgur.com/a/qYsXW looking at those numbers,
it would take a fairly steep high thrust trajectory, but with
boosters...
L286[10:36:22] <Althego> this is easy, you
can go sideways while you collect speed
L287[10:36:23] <Pakaran> I mean, even if I
mess up that objective, Val can do the mission easily enough.
L288[10:36:47] <ve2dmn> I use kOS for my
launches
L289[10:37:07] <ve2dmn> with my own crappy
code
L290[10:37:09] <Pakaran> I was figuring on
FAR sooner or later.
L291[10:38:22] <Pakaran> ok, right.
L292[10:38:36] <Pakaran> I'll get
designing :)
L293[10:40:23] <RandomJeb> I wouldn't
consider doing several contracts in a mission a cheat, it's just
good sense
L294[10:40:28] <Althego> heh new nvidia
driver
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L304[10:50:40] <Pakaran> This is probably
grossly too much booster. Tempted to thrust limit all the booster
at, hmm, 40?
L305[10:51:15] <Pakaran> my concern isn't
as much drag as dangerous heating on ascent. Though dangerous
heating in stock takes a lot.
L306[10:52:13] <Judge_Dedd> I'd be
concerned about losing control of that
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L310[10:54:52] <ve2dmn> KSP really needs a
Radio statio mod...
L311[10:55:16] <ve2dmn> One that goes to
statics if you lose the signal
L312[10:56:18] <Mat2ch> well, the drag
loss will be pretty high
L313[10:56:28] <Pakaran> With the same
basic design, but another tank on the first stage and 2 boosters,
either 3 or 4 fins crop into them.
L314[10:56:55] <ve2dmn> ...with a
Kerbalish D-Jay
L315[10:57:11] <Mat2ch> I'd go with one
less booster, but with nose cones...
L316[10:57:54] <Althego> there is
chatterer
L317[10:58:09] <Pakaran> hmm...
L319[10:58:12] <kmath> YouTube - OC ReMix
#2699: Final Fantasy VI 'The Impresario' [Medley] by Jake Kaufman
& Tommy Pedrini
L320[10:58:49] <Pakaran> Nose cones aren't
unlocked, and I don't mind the drag stabilization. I'm pretty sure
I'll hit space, in any case, and that'll let me get a fair number
of things unlocked without grinding.
L321[10:59:30] <Pakaran> hmm
L322[10:59:49] <Pakaran> I'll go do some
science stuff artound the ksc area.
L323[11:00:03] <Althego> better when you
have some wheels
L324[11:00:09] <Pakaran> yeah.
L326[11:00:19] <kmath> YouTube - OC ReMix
#1904: Castlevania II 'The Accursed Seal' [Bloody Tears, Castle
Walls] by Juan Medrano
L327[11:00:19] <Althego> because obviously
rockets are simpler than wheels :)
L328[11:00:25] <Pakaran> I mean, I'm being
silly because I'm ahead of the curve anyhow.
L329[11:01:07] <Pakaran> This craft is
under 6k now, so I could afford 10 launches of it. The only issue
is the radial decoupler is from the contract, but that wouldn't
take much science either
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L331[11:02:07] <Pakaran> Jeb is
threatening to quit with the hopper thrust limited to 30% :'(
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L334[11:08:15] <Althego> what, setting
your solid thrust correctly will get you higher
L335[11:08:48] <Pakaran> it was a joke
about the 8 g takeoff of my first launch
L336[11:09:34] <Pakaran> I did the thrust
limit, but he didn't get to make an EVA at 150 m/s
horizontal.
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L338[11:11:11] <Pakaran> Radial decoupler
and nose cone are in the same node.
L339[11:11:29] <Althego> who needs nose
cone
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L342[11:15:56] <Pakaran> Althego,
lol
L343[11:16:14] <Althego> small parachute
instead of small nose cone
L344[11:16:18] <Pakaran> Here you go. The
Swivel will have to handle roll control after booster sep, but
that's really not a lot to ask out of one of those.
https://imgur.com/a/TRGFE
L345[11:16:35] <Althego> no pic
L346[11:16:51] <Pakaran> oh, sorry, I have
a few things downloading.
L347[11:17:04] <Pakaran> try now
L348[11:17:47] <Pakaran> *YAW
control
L349[11:17:51] <Althego> there is no
try
L350[11:18:08] <Althego> where are you
going with this
L351[11:18:39] <Pakaran> Getting into
orbit without stopping at spaceflight.
L352[11:18:43] <Althego> usually i would
have used the normal decoupler and put smaller solids on it
L353[11:18:57] <Althego> seems to be too
much for that
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L355[11:19:02] <Pakaran> And just max
throttle or near off the pad?
L356[11:19:19] <Althego> i always have to
hold myseld back to not get into orbit on the first flight
L357[11:19:27] <Pakaran> I do have the
radial decoupler unlocked, so don't have that constraint.
L358[11:19:59] <Pakaran> the thing is I
don't have the terrier, so I don't want to go 3 liquid fuel
stages.
L359[11:20:06] <Pakaran> Which is honestly
a lot to use to get to orbit in stock, anyhow
L360[11:20:10] <Pakaran> and RL calls,
I'll be back.
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L362[11:30:27] <JCB> ve2dmn a while back,
I sort of wondered what it be like if you were on the ISS, tuning
into radio broadcast stations on the surface. Then I worried that
things would be so stupidly jumbled up
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L369[11:38:57] <Pakaran> Well, I'm going
to go ahead and launch it.
L370[11:39:14] <Pakaran> I know I'll get
at least one contract.
L371[11:43:12] <Althego> heh i have run
out of contracts, no more action for 1 hour 15 minutes
L372[11:43:22] <Althego> when the next
maneuver comes
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L376[11:44:02] <Althego> maybe i could
launch something with the polar resource radar thingie
L377[11:44:08] <Pakaran> I think that's
largely why I'm not getting to orbit.
L378[11:46:32] <Althego> that is too
flat
L379[11:46:38] <halcyon_b> Moderate! is a
better save name than I've ever used
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L381[11:49:30] <Pakaran> Yeah.
L382[11:50:02] <halcyon_b> I usually use
'Normal' or 'sandbox' or something
L383[11:50:18] <halcyon_b> I think once I
was creative and called it 'Munshot', but I can't prove it
L384[11:50:19] <Pakaran> Parachute is
surviving, with a safety margin, after a ~ 1 kps coast through the
upper stratosphere.
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L389[11:54:08] <Pakaran> Wait, looks like
we WILL achieve unpowered to space.
L390[11:54:43] <FltAdmVonSpiz> does anyone
know why the partially deployed high gain antenna on Galileo was
useless? shouldn't it have a calculable beam pattern that is still
better than an isotropic one?
L391[11:57:17] <Pakaran> so I'd say it's
definitely an orbit-capable design.
L392[12:01:37] <Pakaran> High suborbital
trajectory means a very rapid re-entry, but should be within the
tolerances of the stock heat shield.
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L397[12:09:37] <Althego> in this career
game my first moon vehicle was called the advanced munshot, because
the less advanced never actually flew
L398[12:09:37] <Pakaran> Ditched the
drogue shoot, just to avoid motion sickness.
L399[12:09:56] <Pakaran> aah
L400[12:18:16] <Pakaran> I'm going for
orbit in the same craft, nearly, just with more booster thrust and
less first stage lower down.
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L402[12:21:48] <Draconiator> just
restarted my machine...KSP seems to perform the best right after a
restart for some reason.
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L406[12:26:56] <Pakaran> Just need to
circularize, and maybe take a risk and upgrade the astronaut
complex so Jeb can EVA this time? Haven't even accepted "orbit
kerbin" for an advance yet, #soyeah.
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L408[12:29:16] <Pakaran> crazy would be to
circularize, go back to peri, and aim for a flyby of mun or
something. But I'm sure there's contracts I'd want before starting
that mission.
L410[12:29:47] <Althego> monoprop
L411[12:29:48] <Pakaran> also,
nodes.
L412[12:30:02] <Althego> where we are
going, we dont need any nodes
L413[12:30:13] <Pakaran> Althego, I have
full monoprop and ablator.
L414[12:30:18] <Althego> i make a point of
making my first mun missions without nodes
L415[12:30:22] <Pakaran> On top of that
upper stage I screenshotted.
L416[12:32:15] <Pakaran> The suborbital
trajectory is high, but also equatorial.
L419[12:33:42] <Pakaran> But Mun is quite
a bit far ahead for a classic transfer burn at the most efficient
new peri?
L420[12:33:58] <Pakaran> Honestly, there's
no risk in trying for this -- he'll just go back to Kerbin.
L421[12:34:03] <Pakaran> But I am open to
thoughts?
L424[12:37:35] <ve2dmn> I'm back
L425[12:38:20] <ve2dmn> JCB: I think most
games should have a radio station. Think Fallout 3, and
Cities:Skylines.
L426[12:39:39] <Pakaran> we have a 207x85
km orbit (got lazy and didn't thrust limit etc).
L427[12:40:26] <Pakaran> somewhat under
half fuel remaining in the stage.
L428[12:42:10] <Pakaran> Jeb wants to know
about using a flyby of Mun for a gravity assist to land on Kerbol,
as well? :P
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L430[12:42:40] <ve2dmn> 'Land' on
Kerbol?
L431[12:42:53] ⇦
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L433[12:44:38] <ve2dmn> You don't
"Land" on Kerbol. You vaporise and become one with the
star
L434[12:47:47] <Mathuin> ... it's a
spoiler as to what happens when you reach the surface of
Kerbol.
L435[12:49:19] <ve2dmn> *Click on Kerbol*
"I AM TETSUO KERMAN"
L436[12:54:50] <Pakaran> Anyhow, I know
I'm being a little sloppy, but I'm having fun keeping up with these
kind of stretch goals, and have yet to lose a Kerbal or revert a
flight.
L437[12:55:28] <Pakaran> I have used a
transfer stage not much bigger than that to go to Mun, decelerate,
and ditch it immediately before landing for safety.
L438[12:55:51] <Pakaran> But it also had a
terrier, and started nearly full.
L439[12:57:41] <Pakaran> For the record:
First man in orbit about 56 game minutes from the beginning.
L440[12:57:51] <Pakaran> Probably more
than that in the VAB.
L441[12:59:31] <Pakaran> With world-firsts
contracts (like returning from orbit), I don't need to see the
contract before launch, no? I know I don't need to *accept*
it.
L442[12:59:40] <Pakaran> But I could
accept it, and launch Val's training flight.
L443[13:02:49] <Pakaran> Re Val's training
flight, can I take a financial loss if it's fun?
https://imgur.com/a/Ajci3 , with parachute tests
right above it.
L445[13:03:09] <Pakaran>
*above/below
L446[13:04:09] <Pakaran> LOL. Test
"flea" orbiting Kerbin. I wonder if you could use it as a
heat shield?
L447[13:06:32] <legion> once, yes.
L448[13:07:54] <Pakaran> I wonder, would
really need docking parts but.
L449[13:08:13] <Pakaran> What about a
flea-based stage that remains on a rescuee's pod to deorbit
both?
L450[13:08:53] <Pakaran> fire flea, undock
when it burns out, reenter.
L451[13:10:06] <legion> you don't need to
have fuel in it to test the engine.
L452[13:10:39] <JCB> v2demn GTA3 started
the trend ... I think. Though, they also had websites online for
real too. Chatter is nice, but does it take into account loosing
LOS with ground stations or?
L453[13:10:59] <Pakaran> I didn't think of
that.
L454[13:11:11] <Pakaran> the impulse to
deorbit isn't a problem.
L455[13:11:24] <Pakaran> and from a fairly
low orbit, you can burn retrograde from any point?
L457[13:12:23] <Pakaran> need to make sure
to have little if any tumble.
L458[13:12:29] <Pakaran> That's easy to
fix, by abusing stock.
L459[13:12:59] <Pakaran> JCB, I seriously
can't believe I'm considering that either. It was more of a
joke.
L460[13:13:02] <Pakaran> Maybe in
sandbox?
L461[13:13:48] <Pakaran> Draconiator, wow.
What's the acceleration with that engine maxed on landing? It looks
small.
L462[13:14:19] <ve2dmn> JCB: GTA3 ?
Simcopter had a radio station in 1996...
L463[13:14:37] <JCB> I didn't really get
much into GTA.. friend just happened to have the game at the
time
L464[13:14:47] <ve2dmn> The only thing
that GTA3 did differently was using licenced music
L465[13:14:50] <Pakaran> even for what
looks like a tiny probe
L466[13:16:21] <Pakaran> I've seen
tempting sales on GTA, but I don't think my laptop (1 gig video
memory) could do it.
L467[13:18:30] <Pakaran> not really into
action games either
L468[13:19:07] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: I've
spent the last week in Anno 2205
L469[13:19:33] <Pakaran> nice. I like
Stellaris.
L470[13:19:42] <ve2dmn> And the weeks
before that in kOS
L471[13:20:12] <ve2dmn> one link is worth
a page of explanation: steamcommunity.com/id/ve2dmn/
L472[13:21:29] <Pakaran> Gnomoria looks
great... if I can ask, was it abandoned? I've heard various
things.
L473[13:21:37] <Pakaran> and I like
"similiar" games... prison architect, rimworld....
L474[13:21:41] <ve2dmn> it's
abandonned
L475[13:21:44] <Pakaran> minecraft
L476[13:22:09] <ve2dmn> there's a few
late-game bugs that are a problem
L477[13:22:19] <ve2dmn> but the basis of
Gnomoria still works fine
L478[13:23:07] <ve2dmn> Some lone
programmer is trying to make a clone of it: ingnomoria I think it's
called
L479[13:23:19] <Pakaran> aah, thanks, I'll
keep that in mind.
L480[13:23:25] <Pakaran> If I ever finish
this KSP mission :)
L481[13:23:38] <Pakaran> I think I know
how to do the transfer burn.
L482[13:24:34] <Pakaran> Also, Val's
training flight, then probably rescues and Minmus?
L483[13:25:02] <Pakaran> I'm open to other
ideas for fun stuff, beyond just what the missions suggest.
L484[13:26:06] <ve2dmn> Land back on the
polar regions of Kerbin? (For extra SCIENCE!)
L485[13:26:26] <madmerlynx> ve2dmn
factorio's got me, it's got me good.
L486[13:26:31] <Pakaran> Val can
definitely do that.
L487[13:26:42] <ve2dmn> madmerlynx: That's
my next obession
L488[13:26:53] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: also, I
don't know about you, but I ususally install KEI
L489[13:27:06] <Pakaran> for delta-v and
the like?
L490[13:27:07] <madmerlynx> I've set up a
MP server, but I'm not keeping it online 24h because I don't want
to worry about offline biter invasions
L491[13:27:23] <Pakaran> Somehow, I
thought that came from FAR?
L493[13:28:06] <Pakaran> ooh nice!
L494[13:28:11] <Pakaran> That would save
so much time.
L495[13:28:21] <Pakaran> Especially in
what are largely training flights (for myself, and Kerbals).
L496[13:28:56] <Pakaran> Hmm. Another
thing I've wanted to do before, never got that far, but shouldn't
be hard in principle:
L497[13:29:21] <Pakaran> Leave a scientist
in orbit with a lab, just researching what other missions send
to/from comnet.
L498[13:29:48] <ve2dmn> madmerlynx: I'm
currently obessed with finishing Anno 2205, even if the game is not
THAT good (compared to the previous title)
L499[13:29:51] <Pakaran> Would need some
2.5m parts for a heavy lift rocket, but other than that...?
L500[13:30:01] <JCB> I've meant to get
back to KSP missions... been sick on and off since start of the
year which really killed things for me. :\
L501[13:30:19] <ve2dmn> After that it will
be Civ 6 (because Humble Monthly) and Final Fantasy 12 ( because PC
release)
L502[13:30:30] <JCB> whats a good craft
sharing service?
L503[13:30:49] <ve2dmn> JCB:
KerbalX?
L504[13:31:11] <madmerlynx> Uber
L505[13:31:22] <Pakaran> test swivel
landed at kerbin, test mk16 shoot in flight over Kerbin.
L506[13:31:34] <Pakaran> And Val is going
to the poles. Possibly after I arrange lunch.
L507[13:31:37] <JCB> ah.. X
L508[13:31:44] <madmerlynx> Remember when
uber was internet slang for something really super or good?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
L509[13:31:56] <JCB> realized I got a
bunch of craft just off the side.. quite a few planes too.
L510[13:32:15] <Pakaran> designing planes
will be a... process for me, heh.
L511[13:32:22] <Pakaran> even with stock
aerodynamics.
L512[13:32:50] <Draconiator> Eh, I can
design planes without thinking now.
L513[13:33:11] <madmerlynx> without
thinking? but how do you move your fingers?
L514[13:33:28] <Draconiator> Well you know
what I mean.
L515[13:33:29] <ve2dmn> Draconiator: seek
nothingness of mind?
L516[13:33:47] <madmerlynx> namaste
L517[13:34:08] <Draconiator> I MEANT that
UI used to struggle with how the hell to get them to fly.
L518[13:34:15] <Draconiator> now I don't
anymore
L519[13:34:36] <JCB> I've made a couple of
airliners... one or two I really like, flies nice. Though... I dn't
know if they worth sharing?
L520[13:34:50] <Pakaran> I'd be
interested.
L521[13:35:03] <Pakaran> I mean, I still
need to unlock the parts in this game, but yeah.
L522[13:35:12] ⇦
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L523[13:35:18] <ve2dmn> madmerlynx:
Factorio worth the price?
L524[13:35:32] <Pakaran> airliners for
tourists?
L525[13:35:37] <Pakaran> that's another
"eventually".
L526[13:36:10] <madmerlynx> yeah
L527[13:36:33] <madmerlynx> it takes some
getting used to at first, early game can really suck if you don't
have a plan
L528[13:36:38] <madmerlynx> but it's like
crack
L529[13:36:59] <madmerlynx> once you get
going you just want to keep improving designs etc.
L530[13:37:02] <ve2dmn> I just finished
Mario+Rabbids too
L531[13:37:14] <Gasher> yeah. third year
on it and i can stop at any moment
L532[13:37:51] <Draconiator> I like
Sandbox mode though...can never get into Career for some
reason.
L533[13:40:03] <Pakaran> Being new, a lot
of things that seem like grinding money are actually practice with
gravity turns and such.
L534[13:40:22] <Pakaran> Which means less
need to over-engineer the groundbreaking missions.
L536[13:40:56] <JCB> I've done a couple of
rovers but ... not sure how one could add them to other
creations..
L537[13:41:23] <JCB> I've yet to even
figure out how to include them on a mun mission..
L538[13:41:31] <Pakaran> JCB, correct me
if I'm wrong, but the tail and the off-center wings provide drag
stabilization keeping the engines from going into a climb?
L539[13:41:45] <Pakaran> More importantly,
it looks amazing.
L540[13:43:05] <Pakaran> I've thought
before about doing Apollo style with someone staying in
orbit.
L541[13:43:32] <RandomJeb> I never got
into the improving designs bit in factorio, my factories just grow
more weird and sprawling over time to churn out all the ammo and
explosives I need to keep my borders clear and maybe keep some
science production going more or less steadily
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L544[13:43:56] <JCB> I just named it the
KRJ-58
L545[13:44:13] <Pakaran> Wow!
L546[13:44:19]
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L548[13:49:23] <APlayer> Hi!
L549[13:50:04] <ve2dmn> good
whatever-time-of-day
L550[13:50:35] <APlayer> Good
probably-opposite-of-evening-time-of-day! :D
L551[13:50:45] <APlayer> (Referring to
your time of day, that is)
L552[13:50:57] <ve2dmn> it's 14:50
locally
L553[13:51:06] <APlayer> 20:50 here
L554[13:51:37] <APlayer> So, did I miss
things?
L555[13:52:02] <ve2dmn> Someone tried to
land on Kerbol?
L556[13:52:45] ⇦
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L558[13:54:05] <APlayer> Actually?
L559[13:54:26] <ve2dmn> APlayer: otherwise
things are still the same. FH is still on the ground.
L560[13:54:38] <APlayer> Can't wait for it
to take off
L561[13:55:41] <APlayer> I sure do hope it
launches outside of my school time. I would even set an alarm if it
launches in the middle of the night for me, though
L562[13:55:54] ⇦
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L563[13:55:56] <Pakaran> ve2dmn, I joked
about it.
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L565[13:56:18] <Pakaran> It's not a burn
the craft had sufficient delta-V to attempt.
L566[13:56:32] <ve2dmn> Yeah, and then I
made a reference to something and no one said anything
L567[13:56:44] <JCB> anyways...
L568[13:56:53] <Pakaran> so I'm installing
a couple mods.
L569[13:56:55] <JCB> off-center
wings?
L570[13:57:11] <Pakaran> compared with
what looks like it should be the center of mass?
L571[13:57:21] <Pakaran> That's not what
you usually see in a subsonic widebody?
L572[13:57:34] <Pakaran> (also including
wwii bombers and the like)
L573[13:57:45] <ve2dmn> APlayer: ha yes.
New Stockalike Station expantion released
L574[13:58:00] <Pakaran> this is probably
why I was messing up. planes are on the "for later"
list.
L576[13:58:36] <APlayer> I wish all my
essential mods were usable in 1.3.1, but alas, I am stuck with 1.3
for now, and thus no SSE for me :/
L577[13:59:09] <Pakaran> I kind of want to
do a stock-scale RSS game with a life support mod, and otherwise
stock parts.
L578[13:59:18] <Pakaran> Maybe Near Future
Tech and the like.
L579[13:59:41] <halcyon_b> That is
beautiful.
L580[13:59:51] <ve2dmn> APlayer: and
madmerlynx has been captured by Factorio, never to be seen
again
L581[14:00:06] <JCB> wings are about where
they should be.. at least I think. you don't want exactly at center
of mass..
L582[14:00:19] <madmerlynx> well the
biters aren't going to kill themselves
L583[14:00:25] <APlayer> RIP
madmerlynx
L584[14:00:26] <Pakaran> JCB, So a lawn
dart or an arrow, they're at center of mass.
L585[14:00:43] <ve2dmn> halcyon_b: sadly,
it's a remake of another mod of the same author... I'll have to
de-orbit all my stations before I can unistall the old mod
L586[14:00:47] <Pakaran> If you put a
rocket engine on the back of either, you'd put it likewise, whether
or not it was staying attached.
L587[14:01:00] <Pakaran> Can someone
explain what I'm missing about how lift changes it?
L588[14:01:13] ⇦
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L589[14:01:50] <Pakaran> I'm pretty close
to getting the first jet node, if I wanted it.
L590[14:02:14] <Pakaran> sorry for my
tone, btw :(
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L592[14:02:33] <madmerlynx> ve2dmn when
you get into Factorio you're welcome to hop on my MP server, right
now just 3 of us on it
L593[14:02:34] <Pakaran> I appreciate
everyone trying to help. I'm a bit behind on sleep at the
moment.
L594[14:02:47] <JCB> you basically want
lift slightly behind mass...
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L596[14:03:51] <JCB> well actually you
want your aerodynamics overall behind mass... otherwise, the craft
will want to flip around..
L597[14:03:57] <Pakaran> Thanks.
L598[14:04:36] <Pakaran> And that's even
more obviously true of a Concord or an F-16.
L599[14:04:42] <ve2dmn> JCB: which is why
I don't understand the use of Canards in KSP...
L600[14:04:51] <Pakaran> Maybe I should
install FAR. I'm afraid I'd blow up my rockets if I tried,
though.
L601[14:05:16] <JCB> it gets a little
complicated when you account for engine placements.. but that is
more an issue with experimentals than with most other craft
L602[14:06:21] <oren> FAR makes it much
easier to understand planes IMO
L603[14:06:32] <JCB> candards is just a
different way of going about things. It can allow you to place an
engine directly in the aft section..
L604[14:06:46] <oren> Like, if you make it
shapes like a plane it will fly ok
L605[14:06:50] <Pakaran> FAR is on.
L606[14:07:03] <Pakaran> I used heat
shield from, literally, launch 2.
L607[14:07:40] <JCB> shrug, I've been in
aviation since I was a kid..
L608[14:08:50] <ve2dmn> Also, I don't
think I'll ever understand the name 'canards'
L609[14:09:23] <oren> I am still using
1.2.2 because I'm paranoid about upgrading things since the fiasco
of 1.1.5->1.2
L610[14:09:24] <darsie> ve2dmn: They have
the elevator at the front.
L611[14:09:51] <madmerlynx> The term
“canard” arose from the appearance of the Santos-Dumont 14-bis of
1906, which was said to be reminiscent of a duck (canard in French)
with its neck stretched out in flight.
L612[14:10:01] <Pakaran> What do I want
besides FAR? I can't find KEI in CKAN, possibly because it's
incompatible with CKAN, 1.3.1, or both?
L613[14:10:28] <ve2dmn> darsie: I
understand that bit, but it always brings the center of lift
forawrd a lot
L615[14:10:47] <ve2dmn> madmerlynx: yeah.
I don't see a duck. that's kinda my point...
L616[14:10:52] <Pakaran> Honestly, an
engine somewhere between the terrier and the 1st stage engines
would be nice.
L617[14:10:52] <oren> Pakaran: if you're
using FAR you might also want proceduaral wings and a mod to give
you propellers
L618[14:10:56] <madmerlynx> look at that
picture
L619[14:11:38] <madmerlynx> I'm amazed
they took a picture that well with 1906 technology though, I'm
assuming the plane was in motion
L620[14:12:04] <Pakaran> wow, didn't
realize planes were that big that early
L621[14:12:24] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: planes
were in WW1, remember?
L622[14:12:27] <oren> Pakaran: there are
various stockalike parts mods, one of them, I forget which one,
gives me an angine that is halfway between terrier and swivel
L623[14:12:43] <Pakaran> thanks
L624[14:12:46] <Pakaran> true that
L625[14:13:03] <oren> I use RLA
stockalike
L626[14:13:49] <Pakaran> roger
L627[14:14:47] <JCB> Ah ya.. the ugly duck
plane
L628[14:15:08] <JCB> that whole box thing
up front actually pivoted up/down, sideways..
L629[14:15:15] <Pakaran> procedural
fairings also
L631[14:18:51] <JCB> ooooh
L632[14:19:28] <oren> Pakaran: ok, the
engine I was talking about is the Beagle from Ven
L633[14:20:39] <oren> IIRC you can
download just the new parts and not the whole ven's revamp
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L635[14:22:38] <Pakaran> I just got ven's
stock part revamp. I don't have to use it, and would just as soon
not have to downgrade my stock install in mid game.
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L637[14:23:42] <Pakaran> Don't have to use
all the decoration capabilities, et cetera
L638[14:25:15] <Mathuin> TIL 1.0 and 1.2
(possibly others) have their own launch videos and cinematic
trailers
L639[14:25:22] <oren> LV-900
"Beagle": thrust 100 kN, 325 seconds
L640[14:26:12] <Pakaran> Sounds great for
late ascent/circularization for crewed launches around the Kerbin
system.
L641[14:26:55] <Pakaran> I am going to
stick with the stock tech tree for this game.
L642[14:27:16] <Pakaran> Maybe next
stockish game will be a tech tree mod and stock scale RSS.
L643[14:28:10] <Pakaran> At the moment,
launch pad is the only structure upgraded.
L644[14:31:38] <Pakaran> I have a factorio
save with everything but space science done, including automated
uranium processing.
L645[14:31:42] <Pakaran> no atomic
bombs
L646[14:32:10] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: I was
waiting for a sale to buy Factorio
L647[14:32:26] <Pakaran> I got it sort of
early
L648[14:32:32] <ve2dmn> But both Factorio
and Rimworld have stayed the same price for years
L649[14:32:46] <Pakaran> I guess Factorio
is close to feature complete.
L650[14:33:06] <Pakaran> I mean, they plan
to support it, but I assume they'll be moving resources to other
projects.
L651[14:33:34] <Pakaran> mods almost done
installing
L652[14:33:43] <Pakaran> again, if I'm
rambling, please do let me know.
L653[14:33:58] <Pakaran> I've yet to
return from orbit, and I'm thinking out designs for minmus landers,
heh.
L654[14:34:02] <ve2dmn> I can't wait to go
back home
L655[14:34:21] <oren> ve2dmn: I have been
playing a lot of Oxygen Not included
L656[14:34:33] <Pakaran> heh
L657[14:34:43] <Pakaran> I sort of got an
air purification system working
L658[14:34:48] <Pakaran> not renewable
farming, though.
L659[14:35:08] <Pakaran> basically, a sump
for good water, and one for bad, going through potties and water
purifiers.
L660[14:35:43] <Pakaran> extra good or
bad, I either dug out drainage (did feel sorry for the crew), or
placed bottle fillers/emptiers temporarily as needed.
L661[14:35:51] <Pakaran> sandstone's
cheap, and copper's not that expensive either.
L662[14:36:19] <Pakaran> mind you, in
maintaining parts of the oxygen area, popped eardrums were
endemic.
L663[14:36:22] <ve2dmn> oren: that's
another drug I don't want to start
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L666[14:36:52] <oren> Pakaran: you can
turn dirty water into clean water pretty easily by boiling it
L667[14:37:05] <Pakaran> I tried to dig
down to oil once.
L668[14:37:25] <Pakaran> Was going to
build a condenser above later, but that was before various thermal
things were added.
L669[14:38:09] <oren> another way is to
use that purifier thing but then youre screwed if you run out of
sand
L670[14:38:19] <Pakaran> So if you boil
water, you get steam.
L671[14:38:32] <Pakaran> Don't dupes
overheat pretty fast maintaining the shaft the steam rises
through?
L672[14:39:02] <oren> not if you make it
out of abyssite
L673[14:39:14] <Pakaran> I mean, I guess
sometime, I could set up a whole system where cold hydrogen or
something meets the steam locally.
L674[14:39:35] <oren> I just have it go
into a natural ice biome
L675[14:39:55] <oren> unlike some players
I use the biomes in situ a lot
L676[14:40:01] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: making
progress on my multiprobe flight, now just stuck on how to switch
active vessel to the probe and back.
L677[14:40:05] <Pakaran> I know there's at
least one part that now destroys thermal energy.
L678[14:40:14] <oren> e.g. store food in
the chlorine biome
L679[14:40:17] <Mathuin> (my probes need
to make very small burns to circularize)
L680[14:40:29] <Pakaran> So I mean, you
"could" make a closed cycle system sending liquid
hydrogen, or even helium, around.
L681[14:40:38] <Pakaran> But it would take
a lot of power?
L682[14:40:38] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: I think
the message Queue might be heplfull in this case
L683[14:40:59] <oren> Pakaran: yeah,
that's why I just use in situ
L684[14:41:07] <Pakaran> cool.
L685[14:41:11] <Pakaran> so to
speak.
L686[14:41:24] <Mathuin> Passing the
messages is easy. Having the probe burn when the mother ship is out
of range is hard.
L687[14:41:29] <Pakaran> I try to learn
one new system a game, or master one I've already learned.
L688[14:41:41] <JCB> been wondering..
who's made rovers for their missions... prefered method of getting
them to other worlds?
L689[14:41:46] <Pakaran> I restart when it
stops being fun, and starts being who dies next.
L690[14:41:57] <oren> the only exception
is the poison biome which can fairly easily be entirely
terraformed
L691[14:42:31] <Pakaran> I just opened the
swamp biome past the initial potty/hand sanitizer area.
L692[14:42:38] <oren> but the chlorine and
ice I leave in place
L693[14:42:51] <Pakaran> I had a primitive
hospital, and tried to catch dupes with slimelung exposure, and
give them safer jobs.
L694[14:43:21] <oren> you can stop gases
mixing by having the only access be by going underwater
L695[14:43:46] <Pakaran> But then don't
they complain about being wet all the time?
L696[14:43:49] <Pakaran> Also, popped
ears?
L697[14:43:54] <oren> yeah but fuck
em
L698[14:44:12] <Pakaran> just build
another massage table.
L699[14:44:16] <Pakaran> :P
L700[14:44:20] <JCB> eh...
L701[14:44:29] <oren> wet is fine so long
as they don't stand in doorways letting chlorine into my hab
L702[14:44:48] <ve2dmn> JCB: never managed
to get a big enough rover somewhere :/
L703[14:45:16] <oren> JCB I have done
rovers on a lot of planets
L704[14:45:17] <Pakaran> I guess another
thing you "can" do is liquify chlorine, bottle it, and
forget about it.
L705[14:46:22] <oren> JCB: my prefered
method is to integrate the lander into the rover. the rover has an
engine on its rear, and twolanding legs forcing it to tip over on
landing, onto its wheels
L707[14:47:58] <oren> JCB this method
works well even under kOS control
L709[14:51:24] <oren> Pakaran: hmm,
liquefying it could work. you sometimes see liquid chlorine in the
ice biome
L710[14:52:58] <oren> I have tried making
rovers with engine on the bottom and not the rear, but it is too
hard to balance
L711[14:53:15] <ve2dmn> oren:
skycrane?
L712[14:53:47] <JCB> Just.. made a couple
of really small rovers. Been mulling over how to bring them to the
surface.. but also how to do the build with the way ksp does
things
L713[14:53:56] <Mathuin> My rovers have
small engines beneath them to decelerate. Once I'm close to the
ground and hovering, I tip a slight angle and blow a separator. But
I haven't left Kerbin's SOI.
L714[14:54:07] <JCB> I haven't really
messed around much with modules or sub assemblies
L715[14:55:49] <oren> and lately I have
been using fewer wheels to allow better energy efficiency. under
kOS control you can go just as fast on three or two wheels as on
four
L716[14:55:51] <ve2dmn> JCB: if they are
small enough, just put them in a container of some sort and land
that
L717[14:56:45] <oren> or one wheel and two
skids
L718[14:56:58] <JCB> I hadn't cecked to
see if it was small enough for the larger of the two service
bays...
L719[14:57:40] <JCB> though I did managed
to cram two full on working relay sats into one service bay..
L720[14:57:45] <Pakaran> oren, chlorine,
IRL, is funny.
L722[14:58:19] <Pakaran> While you don't
want to work in it on a daily basis, even if you hold your breath,
it's also a weaker oxidizing agent than oxygen is.
L723[14:58:40] ⇦
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L725[14:58:53] <Pakaran> It just happens
that, by a quirk of quantum mechanics, oxygen doesn't interact
rapidly with most organic molecules, or with steel and so forth.
Look up singlet oxygen on Wikipedia
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L727[14:59:16] <Pakaran> But basically, if
you excite it just a bit to get around that quirk, it can kill
cancer cells in a few seconds.
L728[15:01:01] <Pakaran> That's also why
chlorine, more relevantly here, has a much higher boiling point
than oxygen, CO2, or methane; it's bonded only loosely
intramolecularly but with strong intermolecular Van der Wahls
forces.
L730[15:02:17] <Pakaran> The next logical
step is a "challenge" on youtube to cure your athlete's
foot by dipping them in liquid chlorine.
L731[15:02:35] <Pakaran> ooh nice
L732[15:02:47] <Pakaran> I figure a
science car is a draft of a rover.
L733[15:03:03] <Pakaran> Both do benefit
from wheels.
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L735[15:03:36] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: don't say
things like that. Next thing we know, people online will recommend
drinking pure liquid chlorine to get rid of cancer
L736[15:03:45] <oren> Pakaran: hmm, yeah
that wouldn't even be all that cold. it gets to -40 up at my
grandparents' at least one day every year
L737[15:04:31] <ve2dmn> And then it will
become a meme to drink chlorine
L738[15:04:34] <oren> you might get
frostbite
L739[15:04:59] <Pakaran> You can handle
dry ice with your bare hands if you do it very quickly.
L740[15:05:31] <Pakaran> liquid N2 is
about as dangerous to mess with as boiling water. Liquid chlorine
would be safer, except for the chemical properties.
L741[15:05:37] <JCB> you can also dip your
hand into liquid nitrogen.. if you do it really really fast.
:)
L742[15:05:39] <Pakaran> Good news is it
isn't radioactive.
L743[15:05:55] <Pakaran> (Potassium,
though...)
L744[15:06:17] <Pakaran> they use
potassium in lethal injections.
L745[15:06:24] <JCB> sorta a reason they
use.. or used ot use chlorine in pools
L746[15:07:02] <Pakaran> MIT had a
tradition where the students would take metallic potassium
L747[15:07:24] <Pakaran> (chargable to
their student accounts, where their parents might or might not
notice) and drop it in the Charles river as part of a
holiday.
L748[15:08:02] <Pakaran> I imagine a lot
of fish didn't need soap.
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L750[15:08:51] <Pakaran> Or alarm
clocks.
L751[15:09:54] <oren> JCB: they don't use
chlorine in pools anymore?
L752[15:10:13] <Pakaran> oren, I want to
say some use bromine, and "salt pools" use liquid
salt...
L753[15:10:29] <Pakaran> basically
generate chlorine in site, as needed
L754[15:10:35] <oren> been a few years
since I went to a pool but it definitely smelled like
chlorine
L755[15:10:47] <Pakaran> which is
healthier etc
L756[15:11:10] ⇦
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L757[15:11:28] <JCB> oren other options
started showing up some time ago. One being UV light
treatment.
L759[15:12:06] <Pakaran> ah, at the DNA
resonant frequency like operating rooms? Or to make ozone?
L760[15:13:19] <Pakaran> excuse me, salt
is added to the pool, and then free chlorine is generated
electrochemically as needed to deal with pathogens, organic matter,
etc
L761[15:14:35] <ve2dmn> not in private
pools...
L762[15:14:55] <ve2dmn> well... not in my
experience
L763[15:15:03] <SnoopJeDi> trichlor is
absolutely still a "standard" heh
L764[15:15:03] <Pakaran> Yeah, most
private pools just buy chlorine like other chemicals.
L765[15:15:12] <Pakaran> And that
includes, like, motels
L766[15:16:08] <Pakaran> The guy that does
the yardwork may handle the pool as well
L767[15:16:12] <ve2dmn> And I said this
before, but I don't understand why people have heat pumps to cool
down the house and a heater to heat up the pool outisde...
L768[15:16:20] <ve2dmn> ...why not combine
the 2?
L769[15:16:48] <Pakaran> And then you
could disinfect the house by venting spare liquid chlorine?
L770[15:17:48] <oren> Pakaran: isn't that
what fumigation is?
L771[15:17:51] <SnoopJeDi> If liquid
chlorine is involved, you are doing Something Very Wrong™ from a
pool operator's perspective
L772[15:17:53] <ve2dmn> well... the heat
pump is trying to get rid of excess heat and then you have a
completely different system to heat up the pool...
L773[15:18:44] <oren> hmm, apparently
chlorine isn't used for fumigation.
L774[15:18:49] <Pakaran> There's also the
possibility of a fluorine-based pilot light for the furnace?
L775[15:19:24] <oren> that's weird, I
would have thought chlorine would eb extremely effective at killing
pests
L776[15:19:29] <ve2dmn> Similar to how we
have fridge running inside the house, but it's below freezing
outside.
L777[15:20:00] <darsie> oren: Chlorine
also chlorinates other stuff and may be hard to get rid of.
L778[15:20:45] <Pakaran> Does it set fire,
in a secured environment, to anything that 100% oxygen
wouldn't?
L779[15:20:52] <darsie> It would bleach
carpets etc.
L780[15:21:12] <oren> chlorine gas
dissolved in water was used by ignaz semmelweis to disinfect
hands
L781[15:21:27] <darsie> Didn't Semmelweis
use formaldehyde?
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L783[15:22:10] <Pakaran> As a
preservative, you can use several less toxic substances.
L784[15:22:15] <Pakaran> Like grain
alcohol.
L785[15:22:23] <Pakaran> (Also runs
rockets, and vehicles)
L786[15:23:05] <darsie> HCN was used to
fumigate places.
L787[15:23:16] <ve2dmn> Preserve food in
Vodka? great idea!
L788[15:23:22] <Pakaran> Quite recently,
in the case of ships.
L789[15:23:48] <darsie> ve2dmn: I'm
preserving vitamin B12 in 70% ethanol.
L790[15:24:25] <darsie> Or maybe I just
don't to drink various microbes after 6 months.
L791[15:24:25] <oren> darsie: nope, it was
bleach or chlorine solution
L792[15:26:33] <Pakaran> How would 70%
ethanol/lox compare to hypergolic fuels?
L793[15:26:39] <Pakaran> I'm guessing not
too badly.
L794[15:27:01] <ve2dmn> bonus: probably
less toxic
L795[15:27:13] <JCB> I'm trying to figure
out what aerozine 50 is...
L796[15:27:19] <oren> what about
chlorind
L797[15:27:26] <oren> chlorine powered
rocket
L798[15:27:27] <Pakaran> Until the engine
exploded.
L799[15:28:00] <JCB> seems to be mixed
50/50 with some other stuff, but I was wondering if it was toxic..
or just like some heavy based jet fuel..
L800[15:28:26] <oren> JCB: hydrazine is
highly toxic
L801[15:28:47] <Pakaran> and it's light in
the hypergolic world.
L802[15:28:49] <JCB> oren that I get.. but
aerozine 50 isn't hydrazine
L803[15:29:08] <oren> JCB: aerozine 50 is
50% hydazine, and 50% UDMH
L804[15:29:16] <darsie> oren: you're
right.
L805[15:29:28] <JCB> that when its mized..
or premixed?
L806[15:29:57] <oren> JCB: it looks like
it is a premixed fuel
L807[15:30:10] <oren> "By cutting
straight hydrazine, hydrazine's inconveniently high freezing point
of 2 °C is lowered through freezing point depression. "
L808[15:30:32] <KrazyKrl> "Yea... so
we just stuck straight zip fuel in your rover... just
because."
L809[15:30:40] <Pakaran> Chlorine is a bad
rocket oxidizer because it's heavier than oxygen for a lower
valence.
L810[15:31:00] <Pakaran> now, ClF3 and
FOOF
L811[15:31:10] <Pakaran> ...
L812[15:31:19] <JCB> ok so mixed.. but is
it still considered highly toxic?
L813[15:31:34] <oren> JCB: I would not
doubt it
L814[15:31:43] <tawny-> I'm going to guess
'yes'
L815[15:31:49] <JCB> wiki doesn't make
mention...
L816[15:32:14] <JCB> though I know
hydrazine is the sort of stuff they'd rather people in full suit/o2
system, mostly since it desicates flesh so badly
L817[15:32:28] <KrazyKrl> Well, there will
always be incomplete combustion. so the results will be at least be
marginally toxic.
L818[15:33:10] <Pakaran> the other issue
with chlorine is the ignition hazard from static electicity
L819[15:33:30] <Pakaran> and, uhm,
everything. Flour, drier lint...?
L820[15:33:35] <oren> yeah but hydralchlor
rockets would exhaust anhydrous hydrochloric acit
L821[15:33:53] <Pakaran> oh, I meant for
fumigation
L823[15:34:15] <JCB> geh.. trying to find
toxicity papers on aerozine like trying to bleed a stone
L824[15:34:30] <Pakaran> I'm pretty sure
you could ignite that atmosphere with a hand-cranked electrostatic
generator.
L825[15:34:52] <Pakaran> (So appropriate
to Oxygen Not Included!)
L826[15:34:57] <oren> JCB: I'm guessing
nobody ever tried to find out they just put on the hazmat
suis
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L828[15:35:39] <ve2dmn> oren: either that,
or the information is classified
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L830[15:36:18] <JCB> the fuel you use in
your car is also toxic... but it doesn't react as badly to
skin...
L831[15:36:36] <Pakaran> That would make
sense if someone thought they could deny an adversary information
for which they could easily run the experiments.
L832[15:36:46] <ve2dmn> (in the sense that
cases of toxicity where in secret project... so they can't release
the information because it would hint at other stuff)
L833[15:36:49] <Pakaran> Yes, it would
have been useful in making missiles, but so was a lot of other
stuff.
L834[15:36:51] <Pakaran> Oh, ok.
L835[15:36:56] <JCB> there is some stuff
online but most of it seems to refer to paper references or books
else where.
L836[15:37:07] <Pakaran> I was going to
say, China or Pakistan could do the experiment.
L837[15:37:12] <Pakaran> In any
university, probably.
L838[15:37:37] <JCB> hm... hdyrogen
peroxide rocket :)
L839[15:37:39] <Pakaran> JCB, propane goes
through skin.
L840[15:37:56] <JCB> pakaran in liquid or
gas form?
L841[15:38:07] <Pakaran> I believe just
liquid, it's light and nonpolar.
L842[15:38:30] <JCB> you usually get
propane in liquid form due to being stored under pressure... you
don't get the gas form unless you about to burn it
L843[15:38:47] <JCB> more commonly known
as LPG..
L844[15:39:25] <Pakaran> right, and if you
have skin contact with it you've messed up in other ways.
L845[15:40:34] <JCB> propane is a curious
beast
L846[15:40:36] <Pakaran> gas form, like
many other things, it's very disbursed.
L847[15:40:51] <Pakaran> At normal
temperatures, if you're getting oxygen, you're fine.
L848[15:41:47] <Pakaran> or did you mean
something else?
L849[15:42:18] ⇦
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L851[15:42:49] <ve2dmn> There will be a
bloodmoon, bluemoon, supermoon eclipse soon
L852[15:42:53]
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L853[15:43:19] <Pakaran> Dang. And here I
didn't start my RSS game yet. What if it hits us?
L854[15:44:00] <JCB> propane tends to be
heavier than air... it doesn't exactly react with the body too
well, but will take out the oxygen from teh air.
L855[15:44:40] <Pakaran> And of course it
won't set off the body's CO2 sensors.
L856[15:45:11] <JCB> it takes away o2.. it
doesn't give off c02
L858[15:46:43] <Pakaran> JCB, so it's more
dangerous than a methane leak (minus ignition source), but less so
than CO, HCN, etc?
L859[15:47:04] <JCB> like everything... it
depends
L860[15:47:14] <Pakaran> nod
L861[15:47:15] <JCB> best not to get a
propane leak in teh basement..
L862[15:47:17] <Pakaran> do not try at
home.
L863[15:47:21] <Pakaran> use a neighbor's
microwave.
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L865[15:47:36] <Pakaran> Oh, wait,
different topic.
L866[15:47:38] <JCB> thats why propane
lockers have a vent hole on the bottom to the outside..
L867[15:48:28] <ve2dmn> What's the lowest
and highest temperature you can store a propane tank?
L868[15:48:50] <Pakaran> like ethanol and
high-pressure nitrogen, you should also use good judgement about
your own exposure time....
L869[15:49:31] <JCB> Not really any
'lowest'...
L870[15:50:00] <ve2dmn> well... the metal
will shrink up to a point
L871[15:50:19] <Pakaran> (For example, a
working environment containing 5 atm ethanol should probably not be
converted into an impromptu intercept craft)
L872[15:50:24] <JCB> metal shrink isn't
too much a big concern...
L873[15:50:51] <JCB> might not want to
store the tank anyplace too hot... they do have blow off valves to
prevent over pressure but still.
L874[15:51:06] <ve2dmn> Well, the
properties change
L875[15:51:16] <Pakaran> Anecdotes
involving improper storage of liquid nitrogen are sobering,
seriously.
L876[15:51:29] <Pakaran> I mean, you
wouldn't expect it to be used in a bomb any more than gold.
But.
L877[15:52:02] <JCB> iron+water
grenade...
L878[15:52:21] <JCB> don't underestimate
the power of water turning to ice
L879[15:52:33] <Pakaran> hand warmer
reaction?
L880[15:52:55] <Pakaran> Can do the same
passing a moderately high current through steel wool.
L881[15:53:40] ⇦
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L882[15:53:41] <JCB> one of the
experiments they showed when I was a kid, they put water into an
iron ball. Must have had an inch or two of thick iron walls. Then
put an iron bolt camp on it. Set it down in a bed of liquid
nitrogen. The water froze inside and shattered the ball
L883[15:54:11] <JCB> camp.. cap.. ugh... I
swear..
L884[15:54:23] <Pakaran> Pyrex is pretty
vulnerable to thermal shock, but that's a different missue.
L885[15:54:52] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: I've seen
that first hand
L886[15:55:04] <JCB> ugh ... glass in
general.
L887[15:55:31] <ve2dmn> Took a lot of
cleaning to get the thing off the wall of the oven
L888[15:55:32] <JCB> watch when you move a
sheet of glass in bare hands while its been out in cool weather for
a while..
L889[15:55:41] <Pakaran> I was thinking
about a strip with a high speed camera.
L890[15:55:58] <Pakaran> They heated the
outside of a pyrex container with a torch, and dripped in ice
water.
L891[15:56:24] <Pakaran> ouch :(
L892[15:56:27] <Pakaran> what
happened?
L893[15:56:31] <ve2dmn> Pakaran: I saw the
reverse. My mom took something out of the freezer and put it in the
oven
L894[15:57:08] <Pakaran> ouch.
L895[15:57:12] <ve2dmn> close the thing
up... and 20sec later hear a explosion in the oven
L896[15:57:26] <ve2dmn> open up and
everything is everywhere
L897[15:58:15] <ve2dmn> no damage to the
oven, but complete lost of the food
L898[15:58:40] <ve2dmn> (I think it was
Apple crisp)
L899[15:58:58] <umaxtu> don't forget the
moron that decided to deice his windshield by pouring hot water on
it
L900[15:59:01] <Pakaran> I dropped a full
glass bowl taking it out of the freezer.
L901[15:59:09] <Pakaran> From about 50 cm
at most.
L902[16:00:00] <ve2dmn> btw, I was the one
who understood what happened. My mom was like "I don't get it.
I do this all the time...."
L903[16:00:02] <Pakaran> umaxtu, eep. I'm
hesitant hearing about a lot of tricks, including rubbing alcohol,
because they sound likely to be endothermic with ice and
water.
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L905[16:01:13] <oren> ve2dmn: well if she
did it all the time, perhaps the glass got microfractures every
time until it finally broke
L906[16:01:42] <ve2dmn> oren:
probably
L907[16:01:54] <Pakaran> Like a phone
screen, it just has to overcome the local pre-tensioning.
L908[16:02:04] <Pakaran> Being near a
side, or the bottom of a container, makes that easier?
L909[16:03:14] <Pakaran> The issue with
phase change is this.
L910[16:03:38] <oren> Pakaran: oh god now
I'm going to be paranoid about my phone screen exploding into
painful shards
L911[16:03:43] <Pakaran> If you try to
make water be a liquid at 500c, or nitrogen at 300, it will check
your engineering work. It's better at it than you are, especially
if you already made one engineering failure.
L912[16:03:53] <Pakaran> *300k
L913[16:04:21] <Pakaran> You did get a
welding torch certified for 2500 atmospheres?
L914[16:05:17] <KrazyKrl> Seeing as how
most stuff is only rated for our atmosphere... i think they are
lying.
L915[16:05:43] <Pakaran> KrazyKrl, oh, I
was talking about welding the vent of a nitrogen dewar to save
time.
L916[16:06:44] <oren> Pakaran: man things
are so much simpler in dwarf asteroid
L917[16:07:11] <Pakaran> should look that
one up.
L918[16:07:39] <oren> oxygen not included
is so much like a dsideways dwarf fortress
L919[16:07:56] <Pakaran> I use 3-wide
shafts, ladder in the middle.
L920[16:08:08] <Pakaran> Once gasses reach
a shaft, they tend to mix somewhat well
L921[16:09:29] <Pakaran> definitely
playing ONI soon too.
L922[16:09:39] <oren> yeah the idea that
you can just wait for the carbon dioxide to settle to the bottom of
your hab is kinda....
L923[16:09:58] <oren> would not work well
in real life
L924[16:11:09] <Pakaran> yeah, it's not
really an exploit of the tile physics as much as getting around
negative effects there, though.
L925[16:12:39] <Pakaran> also, the
asteroid apparently has a very high gravitational pull near the
center.
L926[16:12:52] <oren> really?
L927[16:12:58] <Pakaran> CO2 goes down,
oxygen goes up.
L928[16:13:04] <Pakaran> Nobody has
trouble walking, feet on the floor.
L929[16:13:38] <Pakaran> There must be a
very dense core under the magma biome.
L930[16:13:40] <oren> eyah it's more like
you're in an asteroid that a kerbal landed on eve
L931[16:13:49] <Pakaran> Of course, Kerbin
is 3 times the density of gold.
L932[16:14:35] <icefire> kerbin is empty,
only a razor thin shell of a crust. All of its gravity is
magic
L933[16:16:38] <Pakaran> Thus explaining
the difficulty of developing things we take for granted, such as
batteries and solar panels?
L935[16:18:57] <oren> Hmm... speaking of
strange phases. in space would you refine iron ore by sublimating
it?
L936[16:19:29] <Pakaran> You could use a
solar concentrator to do that cheaply. Then, what, a separation
column?
L937[16:20:28] ⇦
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L938[16:20:39] <oren> Pakaran: yeah, and
you would get gaseous iron and oxygen
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L940[16:21:43] <Pakaran> There's
structural applications, like a spine for a station, where you
don't need the full strength of steel...
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L942[16:22:34] <Pakaran> if you want a
pure product, like gold on Earth, you do batch production from
there?
L944[16:23:09] <kmath> YouTube - Jerobeam
Fenderson - Shrooms
L945[16:23:11] <Pakaran> getting steel
significantly cheaper than gold is a win.
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()
L947[16:23:15] <Fluburtur> reason 1 to get
an oscilloscope
L948[16:23:50] <Pakaran> would need
pressure for that.
L949[16:24:42] <Pakaran> and a parts
mod.
L950[16:25:22] <Pakaran> I'd assume
inventory mods have iron...
L951[16:27:31] <Pakaran> alright, going to
try for Mun flyby and Val's trip to the poles.
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L959[16:44:53] <Pakaran> nearly out of
fuel at a 2 megameter apo. Jeb won't be going to Mun today. But
close!
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L961[16:45:07] <Pakaran> 2.55
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L963[16:51:15] <Pakaran> preparing for
deorbit burn, with high space science almost done.
L966[16:57:48] <Pakaran> also, actual
antenna before Mun.
L967[16:58:50] <Pakaran> also
backwards.
L968[16:58:57] <Pakaran> but good for
reentry.
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L970[17:04:08] <Pakaran> Mystery goo looks
amazing with these mods.
L971[17:06:12] <Pakaran> goo is also
coming in pretty hot. 18 km peri.
L972[17:10:29] <Pakaran> Didn't actually
heat up, with SAS on, it acted as a drag stabilizer.
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L975[17:13:01] <Guest04181> Hey can
someone help me? My game keeps crashing for no reason
L976[17:14:48] ⇦
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L977[17:28:03] <darsie> not if you
disconnect.
L978[17:37:42] <whatisthisidonteven>
everyone knows that on IRC if you don't get a response within 60
seconds the channel is obviously dead and noone will help you
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L984[17:54:19] <oren> Hmm, I guess the
endgame source for oxygen is the steam geyser which you
electrolyze
L985[18:11:25] <Pakaran> oren, there's
geysers for various fluids, from the wiki.
L986[18:11:58] <Pakaran> but they're
annoying to find
L987[18:12:25] <oren> in an actual game
I've only ever found the natural gas geysers
L988[18:12:46] <Pakaran> it's been a
couple releases since I played actively.
L989[18:12:46] <oren> those do produce
free PH2O
L990[18:13:34] <oren> which you can
electize
L991[18:14:14] <Pakaran> So if you have a
way to make power, even at the expense of heat, yeah.
L992[18:15:38] <oren> i had an idea just
now. I could totally disinfect an entire slime biome by piping in
chlorine
L993[18:15:50] <Pakaran> In terms of
surfaces, yeah.
L994[18:16:03] <Pakaran> My idea was to
take a gas pipe carrying random base atmosphere.
L995[18:16:07] ⇦
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L996[18:16:18] <Pakaran> It only requires
one gas filter, where convenient, to take chlorine out.
L997[18:16:32] <oren> if the mining of
slime takes place under a chlorine atmosphere then the dupes won't
get any germs on them
L998[18:16:49] <Pakaran> right. and at
room temperature... bingo
L999[18:17:43] <Pakaran> Just make sure
everyone eats somewhere else.
L1000[18:17:48] <Pakaran> Most of the
time.
L1001[18:17:58] <oren> I think I'm
starting to view chlorine as a very useful gas
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L1003[18:20:13] <oren> Or I guess I could
have a gas chamber between the swamp and the base
L1004[18:20:13] <Pakaran> If you want a
mostly-chlorine intake, the easy way is to put it under anywhere
CO2 will pool.
L1005[18:20:51] <Pakaran> gas chamber
with a sink would do it.
L1006[18:21:00] <oren> or a shower
L1007[18:21:26] <oren> I like the showers
even tho they are huge
L1008[18:21:44] *
Pakaran nods
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L1011[18:22:40] <Pakaran> If you wanted
to get fancy, use logic circuits to keep chlorine under a specific
pressure.
L1012[18:24:39] <Pakaran> Vent to a few
tiles at moderate pressure.
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L1014[18:26:23] <Mathuin> ugh still can't
figure out how to get the probe to take over as active vessel
temporarily.
L1015[18:28:32] <Pakaran> oren, note that
bleachstone is to chlorine as oxyalite is to oxygen.
L1016[18:30:56] <Pakaran> also, grr
L1017[18:32:48] <Pakaran> If you manage
that, I'm definitely interested. Next game of ONI...
L1018[18:34:28] <Pakaran> just need to
flush contaminated oxygen.
L1019[18:34:48] <Pakaran> Which chlorine
under pressure would manage, I suspect.
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L1023[18:42:26] <Arcanitor> nvidia
tho/
L1024[18:43:04] <Draconiator> So? All I
ever owned :)
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L1026[18:45:43] <Arcanitor> ...
L1027[18:45:59] <TheKosmonaut> oren:
don't think I missed your fbomb in this channel.
L1028[18:46:05] <TheKosmonaut> Don't do
that again
L1029[18:46:08] <lordcirth> My game
loads, but when loading my save, it hangs, sometimes on a black
screen, sometimes with the loading icon
L1030[18:46:33] <lordcirth> There are
some MM errors in the log, but they occur way back
L1031[18:46:43] <lordcirth> Anyone got
troubleshooting tips?
L1032[18:47:23] <TheKosmonaut> What are
the mm errors
L1034[18:48:36] <lordcirth> The only one
of those mods that I even have is OrbitalScience
L1035[18:48:50] <TheKosmonaut> And that's
the only error you have encountered?
L1036[18:49:46] <lordcirth> Only keyword
matching 'error' or 'Error', except loading error beeps etc
L1037[18:50:32] <TheKosmonaut> What about
NullReference
L1038[18:50:44] <TheKosmonaut> Oh
hmm
L1039[18:51:05] <lordcirth> 2 from
Tweakscale
L1040[18:52:23]
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L1041[18:52:38] <TheKosmonaut> What
exactly does it say?
L1042[18:53:07] <lordcirth> Oh, Kerbalism
forum says that it doesn't work with MM 3.0. Rollback to
2.8.1.
L1043[18:53:10] <TheKosmonaut> Try
loading the save without TweakScale, see if it even loads
L1044[18:53:15] <lordcirth> Hopefully
that doesn't break something els
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L1048[19:02:46] <lordcirth> CKAN is
showing me lots of versions of MM but there doesn't seem to be an
option to rollback?
L1049[19:02:59]
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L1051[19:12:31] <lordcirth> Manually
clobbered it with 2.8.1, but now my vessels don't load their NFLV
parts
L1052[19:15:40] <lordcirth> *sigh* I
guess I'll leave this save until Shotgunninja comes back and fixes
it, and try out TAC or USI
L1053[19:15:59] <Pakaran> I did have a
weird idea that makes good use of liquid chlorine.
L1054[19:16:42] <Pakaran> Liquid
chlorine, and water/steam, on either side of a sump filled with
water will strongly prefer to stay there. The same is true of
chilled chlorine gas, I'd think.
L1055[19:18:46] <Pakaran> But one of
those, you're only powering one gas filter.
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L1058[19:19:38] <Pakaran> glass? can't
you make that with, oh right, silicon and oxygen.
L1059[19:24:52] <Mathuin> It is REALLY
ANNOYING that it takes THIRTEEN MINUTES to test this script.
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L1076[20:45:43] <Pakaran> heh.
L1077[20:46:46] <Pakaran> Big flamingo in
a small pond?
L1078[20:47:33]
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L1079[20:47:51] <Pakaran> Guest56386,
hi.
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L1085[20:50:25] <JCB> um... another ghost
guest huh?
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L1091[20:52:14] <Pakaran> I didn't even
start on the Minmus design, much less irc hopping.dd
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L1104[21:17:27] <oren> confirmed. slime
in a chlorine atmoshere does not have any slimelung germs
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L1106[21:21:24] <Pakaran> wooo
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L1108[21:22:23] <Pakaran> I was, quite
seriously, concerned about using enough chlorine to exhaust an
actual chlorine biome,.
L1109[21:22:34] <Pakaran> Still playing
KSP at the moment in any case.
L1110[21:23:29] <Pakaran> You're using a
water sump between the slime mine and the main base?
L1111[21:23:48] <oren> yeah
L1112[21:24:18] <oren> the slime still
emits PO2, but there is no germs
L1113[21:24:23] <Pakaran> nod.
L1114[21:24:30] <Pakaran> and they die as
soon as they see Cl2.
L1115[21:24:51] <Pakaran> Considering it
takes half a cycle to get sick if you TRY...
L1116[21:25:38] <Pakaran> canned air, and
other non-breathable coolants, closed cycle or otherwise, are
almost a bonus with that design?
L1117[21:27:04]
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L1118[21:27:05] <Pakaran> NO germs is
better than I expected!
L1119[21:28:25] <Pakaran> Hydrogen has a
high heat capacity.
L1120[21:29:18] <Mathuin> Okay, I think
I've done it right. I can at least set the probe to be the active
vessel, now to see if I can switch back after the burn.
L1121[21:29:22] <JCB> pakaran still on
about chorine...? What you messing about with now?
L1122[21:29:36] <JCB> ... chlorine I
meant.. ugh
L1123[21:29:58] <Pakaran> Not playing
ONI, again.
L1124[21:30:24] <Pakaran> Seriously, I do
feel bad. I'm off work at the moment, and was drinking this
evening.
L1125[21:30:38] <JCB> Oni... as in the
game or this some mod for ksp?
L1126[21:30:53] <Pakaran> I REALLY hope
that anyone that actually messed with it would know better, and
frankly crooks don't need to pay attention to anything I say.
L1127[21:30:54] <Pakaran> the game.
L1128[21:30:59] <Pakaran> oxygen not
included.
L1129[21:31:44] <JCB> oooooh...
L1130[21:31:46] <JCB> lol sorry...
L1131[21:31:49] <Pakaran> Nor am I aware
of any mod using chlorine, and compounds thereof, in rockets.
Because it's an unsafe idea.
L1132[21:31:57] <Pakaran> No, I felt
really sheepish about the whole thread...
L1133[21:32:17] <Pakaran> (honestly,
oxygen is better)
L1134[21:32:21] <JCB> I just neve heard
of Oxygen NI.. as being called ONI.. I was thinking the Bungie
game
L1135[21:32:27] <Pakaran> Oh, ok.
L1136[21:32:43] <JCB> room mate I had
ages ago, had the game..
L1137[21:32:44] <Pakaran> Personally, I
have an oxygen habit dating back years.
L1138[21:32:47] <Pakaran> aah
L1139[21:33:07] <Pakaran> So, seriously,
I didn't cross lines?
L1140[21:33:19] <JCB> shrug
L1141[21:33:26] <JCB> with so many mods
out there these days...
L1142[21:33:29] <Pakaran> nod
L1143[21:33:42] <Pakaran> yeah.
L1144[21:33:47] <Pakaran> ...
L1145[21:34:03] <Pakaran> as a human
being, one problematic thing IS that that other element, the one
next to oxygen?
L1146[21:34:18] <Pakaran> is a common
industrial chemical, but IS capable of being used harmfully.
L1147[21:35:10] <JCB> which one..?
Nitrogen, flurine, sulfur...
L1148[21:35:11] <darsie> Fluorine or
nitrogen?
L1149[21:35:20] <Pakaran> heh
L1150[21:35:25] <Pakaran> actually all of
the above.
L1151[21:35:37] <Pakaran> Though you need
carbon and potassium to make black powder.
L1152[21:35:38] <JCB> going diagnal...
phosforus, chorline..
L1153[21:35:56] <JCB> phosphorus.....
>.>
L1154[21:36:05] <Pakaran> Solid
fuel.
L1155[21:36:14] <Pakaran> Way too easy to
drop a booster on the space station.
L1156[21:36:19] <Pakaran> Or even the
space center.
L1157[21:36:42] <Mathuin> I finally got
my lifter to deploy the second probe. It coasted a few meters,
turned to orient for its circularization burn -- and slammed full
speed into the lifter.
L1158[21:37:09] <Pakaran> I barely
avoided being hit by my second stage at ~65 km.
L1159[21:37:53] <JCB> heh.. self
returning boosters seems to be all the trend now
L1160[21:38:04] <Pakaran> I'll build a 3
stage rocket so that doesn't happen again!
L1161[21:38:25] <JCB> so much for surplus
of orange fuel tanks in orbit to make into stations
L1162[21:38:39] <Mathuin> I don't return
back to KSC, I just drop 'em back on Kerbin so they're out of
orbit.
L1163[21:38:58] <Pakaran> Leaving nothing
in orbit is a goal.
L1164[21:39:18] <Pakaran> Boosters go
into the ocean, with the first stage. Second stage is
suborbital.
L1165[21:39:33] <Pakaran> Transfer stage,
eventually, gets to meet Mun up close.
L1166[21:39:54] <Pakaran> Now, landing on
Mun is scary.
L1167[21:39:59] <JCB> I've a few things
in orbit... though they not completely dead. eventually will
recover them, either recyle or give them a new lease on life as
something else
L1168[21:40:15] <Pakaran> What do you do
with rescuees' pods?
L1169[21:40:25] <JCB> I've a docking
target still in orbit of one of my careers, but lacks RCS for
proper docking
L1170[21:40:25] <Pakaran> Last game, I
would leave them in orbit and just end mission.
L1171[21:41:13] <Pakaran> aah.
L1172[21:41:26] <Pakaran> Ok, target
vehicle to dock with is going on my long list to try.
L1173[21:41:53] <JCB> first time docking
target gives you a few achievements
L1174[21:42:53] <Pakaran> cool
L1175[21:44:07] <lordcirth> 92 mods, new
record
L1176[21:44:22] <lordcirth> Oh I forgot
Sigma
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L1190[22:16:12] <Pakaran> Terrier
unlocked.
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L1192[22:16:32] <Pakaran> along with many
nice parts from mods.
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L1195[22:36:36] <oren> wfound thre gas
vent!
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L1198[22:44:51] <Pakaran> natural
gas?
L1199[22:46:35] <Pakaran> Now, can I do a
Minmus design with 30 parts?
L1200[22:47:10] <oren> Pakaran: oh
sure
L1203[22:49:37] <Pakaran> Seriously,
what's a good lander engine?
L1204[22:49:54] <taniwha> Pakaran: one
that provides sufficient TWR
L1205[22:50:27] <Pakaran>
Spinnaker?
L1206[22:52:37] <Pakaran> but MUCH
lighter.
L1207[22:53:17] <Pakaran> *it's almost a
Terrier, but much lighter.
L1208[22:53:20] <Pakaran> Honestly, on
Minmus, it might well handle like a thing that handles so well it
bounces back a kilometer.
L1209[22:54:40] <Pakaran> 2800 to unlock,
and I know I'll use it.
L1210[22:55:52] <taniwha> Pakaran:
really, all you need is > 1.5x local TWR
L1211[22:56:01] <taniwha> (though that
low does make landing difficult)
L1212[22:56:16] <taniwha> (actually, I've
done it with 1.2)
L1213[22:56:31] <taniwha> but 2-3 makes
life much easier
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L1215[23:01:38] <Pakaran> 18 parts so
far, down to the Beagle for second stage.
L1216[23:02:15] <Pakaran> And that's
with, basically, building it out of too many FL-T400s, because I
have launch pad level 2
L1217[23:02:31] <Pakaran> no fins, no
science.
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L1221[23:11:58] <Pakaran> also, no
electrical system because it's not unlocked.
L1222[23:12:23] <Pakaran> I had planned
to just get Val into LKO so she can do SAS prograde/retrograde for
the *next* mission, lol
L1223[23:12:56] <Pakaran> Could do no
solid fuel at all?
L1224[23:13:36] <Pakaran> If the Swivel
can get that monstrosity off the pad.
L1225[23:14:55] <Pakaran>
#stockworldproblems
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L1230[23:20:14] <Pakaran> 0.84 TWR on the
pad is probably bad?
L1231[23:21:52] <Mathuin> I hate when
stuff gets wiggly for no obvious reason, and I need to break out
advanced tweakables.
L1234[23:25:15] <Pakaran> 28 parts, but
less delta-v.
L1235[23:25:23] <Pakaran> thoughts?
things to work on to get to Minmus?
L1236[23:26:44] <Pakaran> Still 1.02 TWR
on the pad.
L1237[23:26:45] <taniwha> Pakaran: remove
the monoprop from the capsule
L1238[23:27:10] <Pakaran> and go to like,
70 ablator or less left?
L1239[23:27:27] <taniwha> yeah, you don't
need much coming from Minmus
L1240[23:27:46] <taniwha> especially if
you put your return Pe at about 20km
L1241[23:28:45] <Pakaran> The two parts
COULD be a booster under everything, but I don't have one close to
big enough.
L1242[23:30:59] <Pakaran> Goo canisters
are heavy :/
L1243[23:35:34] <taniwha> eva and crew
reports will get you enough science to get better parts
L1246[23:35:55] <Pakaran> yeah.
L1247[23:35:59] <taniwha> also, take lots
of tourism contracts so you can upgrade your facilities
L1248[23:36:21] <Pakaran> a 2.5m first
stage would solve this problem very quickly.
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L1252[23:42:16] <taniwha> you don't need
7km/s ?V to get to Minmus, land and return
L1253[23:43:48] <Pakaran> True.
L1254[23:43:56] <taniwha> 3500m/s will
get you to LKO easily enough. another 1000m/s will get you to
Minmus. Maybe 300m/s to get into orbit around Minmus. About 200m/s
to land, another 200m/s to get back into Minmus orbit, and 300m/s
to get back to Kerbin (landed)
L1255[23:44:12] <taniwha> so about
5.5km/s
L1256[23:44:24] <taniwha> (note: I did a
lot of rounding up)
L1257[23:44:30] <Pakaran> So I'm past the
point of solving the actual problem?
L1258[23:44:31] <Pakaran> Yeah.
L1259[23:44:45] <Pakaran> I mean, 7 is
enough to get from the Cape to India.
L1260[23:45:09] <taniwha> er... you are
using stock Kerbin, right?
L1261[23:45:18] <Pakaran> Yes.
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L1263[23:45:29] <taniwha> whew :)
(numbers are valid)
L1264[23:45:47] <Pakaran> Yeah, I was
just making a point that I agree that I'm comfortable with the
numbers.
L1265[23:45:54] <Pakaran> Even though I'm
not the world's greatest pilot.
L1266[23:45:56] <taniwha> ok
L1267[23:46:41] <Pakaran> but if I go
back to straight liquid fuel
L1268[23:47:06] <Pakaran> I need to make
it several tonnes lighter on the pad
L1269[23:48:04] <taniwha> you'll find
that you won't need as much mass either
L1270[23:48:30] <taniwha> solids are very
massive and provide very little ?V
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L1272[23:49:10] <Pakaran> Ok, so swivel
at 100% is reasonable?
L1273[23:49:17] <Pakaran> For this rather
constrained design?
L1274[23:49:48] <taniwha> reliant(?)
(T30) is better for thrust and mass
L1275[23:50:19] <taniwha> when you have
fins, you don't need vectoring
L1276[23:50:19] <Pakaran> yeah, I mean, I
can test the swivel on the pad anytime.
L1277[23:50:32] <taniwha> can test it
without fuel, even
L1278[23:50:37] <taniwha>
pod+engine
L1279[23:51:05] <Pakaran> which then is
100% recovered.
L1280[23:51:05] <taniwha> test.
"nothing happened". "yup, needs fuel" :)
L1281[23:51:06] <Pakaran> right
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L1285[23:54:51] <Pakaran> Well over 5.8
kps.
L1286[23:55:00] <Pakaran> Could probably
use less fuel, as well.
L1287[23:55:29] <taniwha> did you remove
the monoprop?
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L1289[23:55:50] <Pakaran> Yes. I have 80
kg ablator, none is probably fine.
L1290[23:55:54] <Pakaran> Even at SOI
edge, but.
L1291[23:56:02] <taniwha> yeah
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L1293[23:56:28] <taniwha> what are those
big black things above the launch clamps
L1294[23:56:30] <taniwha> ?
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L1297[23:58:15] <Pakaran> Oh, I have
shroud on, but the LV-909 and LV-900 apparently have models wider
than 1.25m.
L1298[23:58:35] <Pakaran> This is odd
given that the former is a stock part.
L1299[23:59:36] <Pakaran> fixed
now.
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L1301[23:59:51] <Pakaran> a weird fairing
issue is something I'd just revert over, anyhow.