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L1[00:12:45] ⇨
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L2[00:12:56] ⇨
Joins: iplop (iplop!~Iplop@207.98.179.185)
L3[00:13:36] <iplop> So Elon Musk's Mars
bound Tesla is supposed to play Space Oddity on its way to
mars.
L4[00:13:46] <iplop> how long will the
battery last playing the radio? O.o
L5[00:13:59] ⇨
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L6[00:14:11] <Draconiator> I dunno.
L7[00:14:21] * iplop
can't see it lasting more than a day or two
L8[00:14:39] <Draconiator> they should have
hooked some solar panels to it so the radio can play forever.
L9[00:14:59] <iplop> also, I wonder if it'd
be able to perform orientation adjustments by spinning the tires
:v
L10[00:15:06] <Draconiator> LOL.
L11[00:15:15] <Draconiator> Redneck
reaction wheels.
L12[00:15:21] <Draconiator> Eh too late now
I guess.
L13[00:15:54] <iplop> assuming AWD, and
given their locations in relation to to the CG & the limited
mobility of the front wheels
L14[00:16:07] <iplop> ...full orientation
control should be possible?
L15[00:16:38] <Gasher[work]> iplop,
actually sounds like a topic for a short scientific work
L16[00:16:46] *
iplop is waiting for the Tesla Space Telescope
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L18[00:17:24] <Draconiator> When is the
Falcon Heavy scheduled for launch anyway?
L19[00:17:25] <Gasher[work]>
"possibility of orientation control in microgravity using
steering drive of 4x4 electric car"
L20[00:17:33] <iplop> lol
L21[00:18:02] <iplop> Draconiator: no
concrete launch date yet (that I'm aware of)
L22[00:18:15] <iplop> what I've read so
far: "possibly by the end of february"
L23[00:18:42] <Althego> lol, car wheel
based steering in space. i guess it transfers a little amount of
angular momentum so you can rotate in space
L24[00:19:03] <iplop> someone build a KSP
mockup!
L25[00:19:47] <Althego> we just have the
static fire test date which is friday now
L26[00:20:25] <Draconiator> You know if the
rocket fails, someone is going to recover the roadster and sell it
lol
L27[00:20:42] <Althego> that is bound to
happen if it is a success too :)
L28[00:20:44] <iplop> What will the static
fire test consist of? Surely they can't fire the engines at full
thrust while holding it in place? O.o
L29[00:20:51] <Althego> yes you can
L30[00:20:55] <iplop> o0o
L31[00:20:56] <Althego> that is the
point
L32[00:20:57] <Gasher[work]> if rocket
fails they usually recovered a burnt pile of tangled metal
L33[00:20:58] <iplop> didn't know
that
L34[00:21:22] <Gasher[work]> the point is
measuring how the burning is going
L35[00:21:23] <Althego> first of all, when
fully fueled, there is not that much of a force to compensate for.
second they have the launch clamps
L36[00:21:47] <iplop> will the static test
consist of a full duration burn?
L37[00:21:54] <Althego> they did it with
every falcon 9, so probably not that much different, just more
clamps
L38[00:22:02] <iplop> wow
L39[00:22:17] <Althego> no
L40[00:25:00] <iplop> welp, I look forward
to watching the stream on friday
L41[00:25:35] <Gasher[work]> don't get too
excited, they could always postpone it
L42[00:25:46] <Althego> just as they did
yesterday
L43[00:25:55] <Althego> and also, why do
you think it will be streamed?
L44[00:26:05] <Althego> probably not by
spacex
L45[00:26:20] <Althego> there are some
people who watch them and put it on youtube :)
L46[00:26:21] <iplop> Gasher[work] --the
story of every time I've ever attempted to watch a shuttle
launch
L47[00:26:29] <iplop> "postponed"
:C
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L49[00:27:59] <iplop> at various times I've
tried to watch like 6 rocket launches. They were all
postponed
L50[00:28:12] <Althego> hehe
L51[00:30:38] <Gasher[work]> lol
L52[00:31:03] <Althego> i dont have that
problem, there are exactly 0 rocket launches here
L53[00:32:00] <iplop> I live quite a ways
away -the attempts were during school trips, etc.
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L55[00:33:09] <Althego> hehe baikonur is
only 3300 km away
L56[00:35:04] <Supernovy> You could visit
on your lunch break!
L57[00:35:09] <iplop> Kenedy space center
is ~500 miles from me
L58[00:35:21] <Althego> that is even
farther
L59[00:37:20] <Draconiator> They also plan
to land all three cores too. I'm sure they'll pull it off.
L60[00:37:49] <iamfishhead> Vandenberg is
280 miles from me. I keep meaning to go.
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L81[02:11:36] <Einarr> ...
L82[02:11:45] <Einarr> Did auto struts go
away?
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L86[02:44:52] <taniwha> Einarr: sadly,
no
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L111[06:14:32] <Fluburtur> "guy who
invented the piano: what if we laid a harp on its side and added
hammers"
L112[06:16:05] <Gasher[work]> Fluburtur,
the one who invented the piano only invented hammers for it.
L113[06:17:13] <Fluburtur> the guy who
made the hammered dulcimer coudn't be bothered inventing the whole
hammer things so he just played it directly with the tiny
hamemrs
L114[06:18:25] <Gasher[work]> ok,
mechanical hammers
L115[06:19:27] <Fluburtur> anyways playing
a 9 string bass is better than piano
L116[06:19:42] <Fluburtur> if you can do
two melodies by tapping at the same time
L119[06:35:22] <kmath> YouTube - Omen -
Guilhem Desq (Hurdy Gurdy)
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L127[07:10:05] <kmath> YouTube - Kerbal
Space Program: Enhanced Edition Review
L128[07:10:31] <ve2dmn> Just as I was
asking what it was like
L129[07:11:07] <Mat2ch> I wonder what
people play KSP on a console
L130[07:11:17] <Mat2ch> it's so keyboard
centered and has so many options...
L131[07:11:38] <Mat2ch> and building huge
ships without a mouse? I wonder how they do this without going
crazy
L132[07:12:25] <Fluburtur> how do they
clip stuff too?
L133[07:13:48] <UmbralRaptor> How do they
use mods?
L134[07:14:09] <RandomJeb> that's the
worst part to me
L135[07:14:13] <RandomJeb> they don't even
have mods
L136[07:14:18] <ve2dmn> UmbralRaptor:
probably dont
L137[07:14:27] <RandomJeb> the only
solution they have to problems is more boosters
L138[07:14:28] ***
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L139[07:14:51] <QualifyingRaptor>
ajdkdkfgjshsjdkdflgjdhahdhdjd
L140[07:15:14] <Gasher[work]> i hope they
can load craft files
L141[07:15:23] <ve2dmn> The one silver
lining in that the cheat menu is activated by Konami Code
L142[07:19:03] <ve2dmn> well, off to work
I go
L143[07:19:13] <ve2dmn> (I'm only 30min
late)
L144[07:22:26] <Mat2ch> RandomJeb: more
boosters means a lot more parts and that means it will run
veeeeeerryyy slow.
L145[07:22:34] <Mat2ch> Scott shows that
in the end of the video
L146[07:22:59] <Mat2ch> My computer is
over five years old, it is faster in processing such a construct
that the PS4...
L147[07:23:22] <Mat2ch> to be fair, the
design of the PS4 is also five years old
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L149[07:38:08] <sandbox> and it was slow
then too
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L158[08:30:14] <madmerlyn> morning
humans
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L160[08:34:04] <sandbox> humans,
where?
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L166[08:58:56] <X52> Hi, I have a question
regarding the KSP Camera System. I try to render the Atmosphere
(layer 9) on a separate camera. This basically works (sky is
displayed) but if I rotate the Camera the Sky turns into a small
blue square. A workaround I tried, is rotating ScaledSpace instead
of the camera, this works better but the rotation speed is of by
about two times.
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L170[09:05:43] <APlayer> X52Is this for a
mod? In that case, you might consider cross-posting in #kspmodding,
but I am not sure how busy the channel has been lately
L171[09:06:46] <APlayer> Woops, I meant to
put a colon there to highlight you
L172[09:08:23] <ve2dmn> Don't highlight a
colon. it's rude
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L174[09:10:42] <X52> yes it is for a mod.
thanks! I will do that.
L175[09:13:29] <APlayer> What kind of mod
will this be, if I may ask?
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L179[09:14:29] <ve2dmn> X52: try
#kspmodding, you may have a better chance at an answer.
L180[09:15:19] <ve2dmn> X52: I wish I
could answer, but I've only playing around with asteroid
modding
L181[09:15:40] <APlayer> ve2dmn: I already
advised them to post there :P
L182[09:16:23] ***
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L183[09:16:54] <ve2dmn> Just trying to
reinforce your opinion.
L184[09:17:20] <ve2dmn> Not that people
here don't know... but since it's mostly players...
L185[09:21:12] <ve2dmn> At least there's
more activity there then in the twitter feed of the CubeWorld
developpers
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L192[09:27:48] <Tank2333> Guys i think the
bitcoin bubble ist bursting right now
L193[09:27:59] <Kalpa> About time.
L194[09:28:14] <Tank2333> 2000 dollar down
today
L195[09:28:48] <Tank2333> And like 200 in
the last 15 minutes
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L197[09:29:47] <sandbox> hopefully
graphics cards can return to less insane prices
L198[09:29:53] <Tank2333> A coworker just
got into ether mining :)
L199[09:30:33] <Tank2333> I told him that
it might not be the best time to do that
L200[09:30:33] <ve2dmn> Is that why memory
price rose?
L201[09:30:54] <Tank2333> Part of it
maybe
L202[09:31:15] <ve2dmn> because in some
cases, ECC is cheaper
L203[09:31:20] <ve2dmn> Which seems crazy
to me
L204[09:31:46] <Tank2333> I heard that the
samsung battery diseaster postet an uncalculated demand on the
memory supply too
L205[09:31:58] <APlayer> Tank2333: How
much was a bitcoin worth before today?
L206[09:32:12] <Tank2333> 12000 i
think
L207[09:32:51] <Tank2333> Around christmas
it spiked at 17000 and from there it did go downhill with little
ups
L208[09:33:13] <APlayer> Humm, I see
L209[09:33:16] <ve2dmn> Time to
short
L211[09:33:56] <Tank2333> There is a
counter at the bottum with the current trading value
L212[09:34:21] <Tank2333> Even less now
than 5 minutes ago...
L213[09:35:41] ⇦
Quits: X52 (X52!webchat@nat-5771.dyn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) (Quit:
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L214[09:36:23] <ve2dmn> yeah, well, one of
the issue with bitcoin is that it takes 20min to register the
transaction
L215[09:36:31] <APlayer> Looks pretty
severe, to my limited stock trading knowledge
L216[09:36:41] <ve2dmn> Which is still
much better then the 3-5 business days of banks
L218[09:40:18] <ve2dmn> might be useful to
someone
L219[09:40:45] ⇦
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L220[09:41:50]
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L221[09:42:00] <Tank2333> I just got
interrested recently in crypto thingys, maybe ups and downs of 2000
a day is normal but the trend since late december is down
L222[09:45:13] <Deddly> That's
interesting, ve2dmn. I didn't even know it was available outside of
the Squad store, GOG and Steam.
L223[09:45:43] <ve2dmn> I'm guessing most
are just selling steam keys
L224[09:45:58] <Deddly> Oh, right
L225[09:46:14] <Deddly> Why buy a steam
key from someone other than Steam?
L226[09:46:17] <ve2dmn> I know IndieGala
is
L227[09:47:15] <Deddly> "Price
reduced to 72,00€" ??
L228[09:47:37] <Deddly> What was it
before, 1 BTC?
L229[09:47:51] <ve2dmn> Aside from
HumbleBundle? 'meh'
L230[09:50:01]
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L231[09:50:22] <APlayer> Deddly: 1
Leprechaun Gold coin
L232[09:52:15] <ve2dmn> Deddly: those are
voucher... I would probably not touch thoses
L233[09:54:26] ⇦
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L234[09:54:57] <Deddly> Yeah
L236[09:55:10] <kmath> YouTube - Marble
Machine X part 23 - DREAM WORKSHOP BUILD
L237[09:55:28]
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L242[10:10:42] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: still
Martin. There are tools for this, Martin! Use them! ;)
L243[10:11:05] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: also
I'd buy a star sky t-shirt :D
L244[10:11:08] <Fluburtur> this guy can do
anything
L245[10:12:06] <APlayer> Can he fly
too?
L246[10:12:14] <Fluburtur> probably
L247[10:12:43] <Althego> haha the new
console ksp... from private division. with a rhombus as a logo.
haha
L248[10:15:40] <ve2dmn> Althego: a whole
subsidiary of MegaCorp unlimited
L249[10:15:55] <ve2dmn> like... well...
everything really
L250[10:25:51] <sandbox> I pointed out
ages ago that the steam version had changed to private division
with no mention of squad, but it says squad again
L251[10:27:30] <ve2dmn> Squad got put
under the 'Private Division' label, which is the Indie Label of the
parent company
L252[10:33:22] ⇦
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L253[10:52:17] ⇦
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L258[11:00:37] <kmath> YouTube - KSP
Machinima Space Oddity VFS
L259[11:01:46] ⇦
Quits: Japa (Japa!~Japa@150.107.178.229) (Ping timeout: 383
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L260[11:01:54] <ve2dmn> *sigh*
"Please do not print this email"... really. Who the hell
DOES THAT?
L261[11:02:09] <Althego> furthermore
L262[11:02:18] <Althego> why is that silly
message perpetuated?
L263[11:02:27] <Althego> it may have made
sense 20 years ago, not much anymore
L264[11:05:40] <APlayer> "Please do
not send this print by E-Mail" would make more sense
L265[11:05:54] <Althego> not really
L266[11:06:46] <sandbox> well at least
it's not a video
L267[11:06:50]
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L268[11:07:35] <Althego> video in az word
doc
L270[11:08:51] <ve2dmn>
flyer-to-print-to-photo-to-print-to-scan-to-web
L272[11:20:21] ⇦
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L273[11:21:21] <APlayer> URL
language?
L274[11:21:26]
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L275[11:21:44] ⇦
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L281[11:56:11]
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L282[11:56:15] <transitbiker> bwoop
L283[11:56:27] <transitbiker> ksp
livestream today in a bit
L284[11:56:41] <Fluburtur> wew
L285[11:56:53] <Althego> how is the
canadair
L286[11:57:06] <Fluburtur> still haven't
built a new tail
L287[11:57:28] <transitbiker> rename it
the "canadair eh"
L288[11:57:35] <Althego> cant kake heads
or tails :)
L289[11:57:38] <Althego> make
L292[11:59:14] <Althego> untitled
spacecraft
L293[11:59:40] <transitbiker> ooo a
CL145
L294[11:59:41] <Althego> just read the
instructions
L295[11:59:51] <Fluburtur> eh
L296[11:59:57] <Fluburtur> doesn't really
look like any model
L297[12:00:52] <transitbiker> the empenage
needs to be a slight bit higher, to aid in clearing the water, and
avoid tail strikes on landing, otherwise perfect
L298[12:01:09] <Fluburtur> the engine
nacelles are also wrong
L299[12:01:15] <Fluburtur> but yeah it
needs a proper name
L300[12:01:24] <Althego> rocinante
:)
L301[12:01:29] <fakeTank2333> ve2dmn i
print out email whnevet i like too!
L302[12:01:31] <Fluburtur> heh
L303[12:01:45] <transitbiker> the Goose
145
L304[12:02:32] <transitbiker> 415*
L305[12:02:38] <Fluburtur> so like I write
goose on it
L306[12:02:53] <Fluburtur> I need a
airbrush to do that
L307[12:03:59]
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L308[12:04:44] <Fluburtur> transit have
you downloaded my crafts for your stream?
L310[12:05:35] <transitbiker> no, not yet
D:
L311[12:05:43] <Fluburtur> yeah I know
what those look like
L312[12:05:47] <Fluburtur> I did some
research
L313[12:06:07] <transitbiker> one of my
favorite aircraft :)
L314[12:06:08] <Fluburtur> and concluded
that most peoples don't know every detail of a canadair so I can
just paint mine red and yellow and be fine
L316[12:06:32] <kmath> YouTube - canadair
fast water taxi
L317[12:08:17] <transitbiker> how much
splash protection do the motors have?
L318[12:08:38] <Fluburtur> I put water
deflectors on the sides
L319[12:08:41] <APlayer> Absorbs 200 ml
before saturating
L320[12:08:48] <transitbiker> oh
nice
L321[12:08:49] <Fluburtur> before there
was water going into the props
L323[12:09:00] <kmath> YouTube - canadair
water taxi test
L324[12:09:05] <Fluburtur> that was
before
L325[12:09:10] <transitbiker> yeah, that
can be bad for RC props, being unbalanced and stuff
L326[12:09:12] <Fluburtur> first tim I put
it in the water
L327[12:09:24] <Fluburtur> it was slowing
them down
L328[12:09:29]
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L329[12:09:38] <Fluburtur> but when it is
going fast enough and sliding on the water it isn't a problem
L330[12:10:19]
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L331[12:10:39] <Fluburtur> uh I need to
update the imgur album
L332[12:10:41] <transitbiker> looks a bit
flood there
L333[12:10:49] <Fluburtur> yeh
L334[12:10:53] <transitbiker> is it from
snow melting?
L335[12:11:20] <Fluburtur> mostly rain I
think
L336[12:11:45]
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L337[12:11:54] <transitbiker> here when we
have rain falling on more than a few inches of snow it can get near
flood because its melt water plus the rain
L338[12:13:08] <transitbiker> all the
streams and small creeks and stuff overflow a bit, but the main
rivers and bigger creeks usually just a bit higher, unless its a
lot of rain then they can start to get full
L341[12:14:46] <Fluburtur> made from a ice
cream container
L342[12:14:51] <Fluburtur> idea of
madmerlyn
L343[12:15:01] <madmerlyn> hm?
L345[12:15:17] <transitbiker> this one
bridge i know of, the bottom of the concrete span is like 6-7
meters above the water, when it floods the water can be over the
roadway on one side as it is on an incline, pretty freaky
L346[12:15:19] <APlayer> Our area used to
suffer from floods so they built canals decades ago (in the
fifties, if I recall correctly). One of them goes right through the
city, partially below ground. The canal was full once on my memory
and there was a bit of water another time, but never had a flood
here
L347[12:15:21] <Fluburtur> madmerlyn when
I wanted to know how to make the deflectors
L348[12:15:44] <transitbiker> nice
L349[12:17:43] <transitbiker> the creek i
speak of has many man made flow management things, weirs, stone
masonry deflectors, parts of the creek were dredged to allow for
fish to be added there for recreational fishing, i cant imagine how
high the water could get before all those things
L350[12:18:36] <transitbiker> this one
weir is like a slide, but you never want to go near it if the water
is over an inch flowing over at the top, too dangerous
L351[12:19:05] <transitbiker> usually just
a finger width of water flowing
L352[12:19:13] <APlayer> Uh LOL, the
engines are literally dancing on this rocket
L353[12:19:35] <transitbiker> are they ion
engines? if so it could ba called electric slide
L354[12:20:32] <transitbiker> any of you
see that one rocket that had the top half spinning around?
L356[12:21:02] ⇦
Quits: Gasher (Gasher!~Gasher@broadband-46-188-123-144.2com.net)
(Ping timeout: 383 seconds)
L357[12:21:06] <APlayer> Don't ask me what
happens here
L358[12:21:19] <APlayer> They are not even
breaking, except for a few of them colliding on occasion
L359[12:21:22] <transitbiker> it has happy
feet
L360[12:22:14] <transitbiker> ok, i need
tea, then livestream
L361[12:22:18] <APlayer> It's extremely
amusing to watch in real time, rather than on screenshots, which
can't convey the motion
L362[12:22:59] <APlayer> Anyhow, needs to
be fixed before this one is cleared to fly :P
L363[12:23:22] <Fluburtur> imagine that
happening irl
L364[12:24:10] <APlayer> No, please
not
L365[12:24:18] <Fluburtur> I have to go
eat transitbiker I should be back in around 30 minutes
L366[12:24:26] <APlayer> LOL wut
L367[12:24:33] <APlayer> Use commas, dude,
haha
L368[12:24:45] <Fluburtur> yeah I forgot a
thing
L369[12:24:46] <Fluburtur> lel
L370[12:24:48] <Fluburtur> anyways
brb
L371[12:25:22] <APlayer> OK, engine issues
were cause by initially loading the engines below ground level in
the VAB
L372[12:25:39] <APlayer> Moving the rocket
up a few meters fixed it, went better than I expected
L373[12:28:44] <transitbiker> coca cola
started out green with cocaine, and pepsi cola started out brown
with pepsin, now both are blackish brown and can cause a laundry
list of ailments from rotting teeth to diabetes WHY are these
companies still in business??
L374[12:29:01] <transitbiker> x-x
L375[12:30:01]
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L376[12:30:18] <transitbiker> right, tea,
brb
L377[12:41:26] <Fluburtur> im back
L378[12:45:10] ⇦
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closed the connection)
L380[12:47:58] <ve2dmn> APlayer: It's only
free if you don't value your time
L381[12:48:56] <Mat2ch> I think this is
just meant funny ;P
L382[12:49:18] <transitbiker> stepson
"thats a waste of time" defining anything not done on
computer
L383[12:49:35] <Althego> lol
L384[12:49:36] <transitbiker> i do worry
about him sometimes x-x\
L385[12:50:02] <ve2dmn> transitbiker: tell
him his cellphone is a waste of time then.
L386[12:50:13] <Althego> a phione today is
a computer
L387[12:50:14] <Mat2ch> also you could
write a phone bot doing the same thing. :D
L388[12:50:27] <Althego> far better
compared to ones we had when i was young
L389[12:50:31] <transitbiker> hes not
getting one of those till he's 16, and he needs to have some kinda
major chores going on or some kind of income to pay for it
L392[12:51:17] <ve2dmn> transitbiker: make
him pay full price and not get a 3year contract
L393[12:51:27] <Mat2ch> well, you could
tell him, if he get's a computer he has to do crazy build projects
and make youtube videos about it ;)
L394[12:52:08] <transitbiker> they both
want cats, its like guise, if we get cat, guess who is going to go
to store with me or mom to get food etc and cleaning out litter box
and feed/check water and clean out bowls? you tow are
L395[12:52:16] <Fluburtur> transit when do
you think you will start the stream?
L396[12:52:39] <transitbiker> soon, gotta
get the youtube page set up
L397[12:53:02] <Fluburtur> alright
L398[12:53:12] <ve2dmn> Because I know my
OnePlus' true value, I still have it and it's still working fine...
the number of kids I see with cracked screen on a daily basis is...
depressing
L399[12:53:17] <Mat2ch> transitbiker:
well, you could take them to the animal shelter and have them do
there some voluntarily work
L400[12:53:28] <ve2dmn> ^
L401[12:53:56] <transitbiker> great
idea
L402[12:54:18] <Fluburtur> "now, take
those scissors and listen closely.."
L403[12:54:30] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: wrong
movie!
L404[12:54:36] <Fluburtur> heh
L405[12:54:51] <ve2dmn> Mat2ch: although,
to be honest, that idea destroyed my sister's view of the
world...
L406[12:55:00] <transitbiker> actually,
yeah, i think that's what we will do, have them volunteer for like
40 hours then see if they still want a cat
L407[12:55:17] <ve2dmn> ... but the animal
shelter was badly run and got shut down... still...
L408[12:55:43] <Mat2ch> ve2dmn: I prefer
people living in reality instead of their own little world... even
if it's hard. Some day they will have to deal with it anyway and
this way they can learn it in a controlled environment
L409[12:56:11] <Mat2ch> ok, didn't expect
that
L410[12:56:14] <transitbiker> our two
closest shelters are run by national non-profit animal welfare
organizations
L411[12:56:17] <ve2dmn> Mat2ch: it's a bit
more complicated. The shelter got shut down for animal cruelty
things...
L412[12:56:28] <transitbiker> woah
L413[12:56:34] <Mat2ch> I thought it was
just the realization that some people mistreat animals and
such
L414[12:56:45] <transitbiker> :\
L415[12:56:50] <ve2dmn> They were in it
for the animal resell value and city contracts...
L416[12:56:52] <Mat2ch> and not that this
is done in the shelter itself :|
L417[12:56:55] <Fluburtur> I kinda want to
build a arsenal VG 33
L418[12:57:11] <Mat2ch> Fluburtur: what's
your Canadair doing? ;)
L419[12:57:24] <transitbiker> i dunno, my
girlfriend wants a kitten, i'm like uhhh... there are thousands of
adult cats with no home
L420[12:57:29] <Fluburtur> it's waiting in
a corner of my room for a new tail and new receiver
L421[12:57:41] <Mat2ch> receiver
broke?
L422[12:57:48] <Fluburtur> kind
L423[12:57:54] <transitbiker> you
converting it to a cruciform tail from standard?
L424[12:58:04] <Fluburtur> misses one
antenna and the model inside doesn't like water
L425[12:58:15] <Fluburtur> also the new
one will have better range over water
L426[12:58:20] <transitbiker> spray foam?
:D
L427[12:58:43] <transitbiker> resealable
sandwich bag!
L428[12:58:57] <Fluburtur> nah
L429[12:59:04] <Fluburtur> nothing in that
plane is waterproofed
L430[12:59:21] <Fluburtur> the receiver is
just placed on top of the interior so water can't go up there
L431[12:59:37] <transitbiker> you could
try taking the electronics out, stripping them bare, and spraying
on some kind of polymer insulation
L433[13:00:01] <Fluburtur> nah the
receiver case is enough
L434[13:00:05] <transitbiker> the motors,
do they have brushes?
L435[13:00:14] <Fluburtur> it's a model I
used in the rc boat before
L436[13:00:19] <Fluburtur> and nah it's
brushless motors
L437[13:00:29]
⇨ Joins: Mead
(Mead!~Mead@2600:1700:92d0:d9d0:a46c:883c:35f6:4eca)
L438[13:00:40] <transitbiker> `the newer
brushless motors are pretty good
L439[13:00:53] <Fluburtur> yeah
L440[13:00:55] ***
Mead is now known as Guest46216
L441[13:00:57] <transitbiker> i remember
some early version needed user input to start turning
L442[13:01:04] <Fluburtur> can run
underwater with no problem
L443[13:01:08] <transitbiker> woah
L444[13:01:23] <transitbiker> kerbal
submarine program
L446[13:01:30] <kmath> YouTube - ye
boat
L447[13:01:42] <Fluburtur> no
waterproofing cardboard rc boat
L448[13:02:29] <transitbiker> i know one
of the big issues with brushed motors and water, isnt the water
making a short, but rather the water getting between the brushes
and the commutator, breaking the circuit via fluid dynamics
L449[13:02:34] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: do you
still have tha kOS gedit link handy?
L450[13:04:35] <transitbiker> old railroad
journal bearings used fluid dynamics to pull oil from the journal
box up and around the journal (axle end), and a huge problem was
under-lubricated journals, whcih not only cost money to replace the
axle set, but time and could catch fire
L451[13:04:58] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: forget
it. Found it
L452[13:05:09] <APlayer> What gedit
link?
L453[13:05:16] <APlayer> What is gedit,
that is?
L454[13:05:19] <transitbiker> so now
instead of having a huge freight car fleet with all these pots of
oil rolling around, they use roller bearings
L455[13:05:33] <ve2dmn> APlayer: kerscript
highlight for editors
L456[13:05:51] <transitbiker> is that what
scott manley used?
L457[13:05:54] <Fluburtur> I know air
bearings are used in some cases
L458[13:05:59] <transitbiker> for his
hovering rings?
L459[13:06:09] <Fluburtur> rely on the
fluid dynamics of air
L460[13:06:13] <transitbiker> yes
L462[13:06:42] <APlayer> Whoops, I kind of
messed up. Pressed space bar on a rocket with all stuff activated
at stage 0, because it was meant for kOS script activation
L463[13:07:05] <APlayer> At least it did
not destroy KSC
L464[13:07:06] <ve2dmn> APlayer: ABORT!
ABORT!
L465[13:07:28] <Fluburtur> uh I could have
built a VG 33 for the flite test forum challenge
L466[13:07:35] <Fluburtur> since it didn't
saw service
L467[13:07:37] <madmerlyn> APlayer gedit
is gnome's default text editor
L468[13:07:47] <Fluburtur> would have made
one of the few french planes of the challenge
L469[13:07:50] <transitbiker> some
turbines start out low rpm using oil then become air bearing
L470[13:07:55] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Would
have been a good idea, actually. The stages are individually
controllable. But of course it did not occur to me in time
L471[13:08:19] <transitbiker> one that
comes to mind is a dentist drill
L472[13:08:43] <transitbiker> uses ceramic
with a special coating for start up and slow down, but air
otherwise
L473[13:09:41] <transitbiker> i think
dentist drills are like one of the most expensive non-radiological
pieces of medical equipment
L474[13:09:42] <APlayer> Oh, but the
engines are dancing again
L475[13:10:34] <APlayer> Might be a rather
specific thrust plate I am using, then
L476[13:10:36] <transitbiker> they want to
be footloose
L478[13:10:39] <kmath> YouTube - Footloose
Final Dance 1984 to 2011
L480[13:11:52] <APlayer> Ah, I know that
link, even, LOL
L481[13:12:02] <ve2dmn> I'm suprised to
see nano in there
L482[13:12:12] <APlayer> Was researching
this recently, actually found a dedicated IDE for kOS
L483[13:12:30]
⇨ Joins: EricPoehlsen
(EricPoehlsen!~EricPoehl@p4FCF5001.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L484[13:13:08] <APlayer> But I still stick
with my old setup, which is a webdev IDE (Brackets) with the syntax
highlighter set on a language which seems to syntactically resemble
Kerboscript (Scribus, whatever that is)
L485[13:13:30] <APlayer> Might not even
syntactically resemble Kerboscript, but the highlighting works
fine
L487[13:15:06] <APlayer> Interesting to
know
L488[13:15:53] <ve2dmn> I work in the
publishing industry... well, not exactly but closely related
L489[13:15:58] <ve2dmn> We do Open
Access
L490[13:16:41]
⇨ Joins: Gasher
(Gasher!~Gasher@broadband-46-188-123-144.2com.net)
L491[13:17:45] <APlayer> Ah
L492[13:18:05] <transitbiker> stream
starting in 30 seconds
L494[13:18:11] <APlayer> So you're the
fixit guy in an Open Access company? :P
L495[13:18:16] <Fluburtur> nice
L496[13:18:23] <APlayer> transitbiker:
What are you going to stream?
L497[13:18:34] <transitbiker> ksp
L498[13:19:32] <ve2dmn> APlayer: I'm just
a sysadmin
L499[13:19:37] <APlayer> Well, yes, but
what are you planning to do?
L500[13:20:11] <APlayer> ve2dmn: I was
just kidding, you once said "yeah, basically" when I
asked if you were the fixit guy ;-)
L501[13:20:49] <ve2dmn> I'm in a new
office. Far from the not-IT people now
L502[13:21:13] <Fluburtur> don't forget my
planes
L503[13:21:16] <QualifyingRaptor> ve2dmn:
PLOS? ArXiv?
L504[13:21:18] <ve2dmn> They can fix their
own problems themselves, I'm not there to do it anymore
L505[13:21:25] <Fluburtur> I don't even
remember which ones I sent you last time
L506[13:21:26] <ve2dmn> QualifyingRaptor:
if only.
L507[13:21:48] <QualifyingRaptor> ve2dmn:
libgen? Sci-hub? >_>
L508[13:22:00] <ve2dmn> nope
L509[13:22:11] *
QualifyingRaptor ignores that ve2dmn is Canadian, not
Russian.
L510[13:23:31] <APlayer> QualifyingRaptor:
Secret governmental open access things :P
L511[13:23:47] <ve2dmn> I never talk
directly about my employer.
L512[13:24:19] <ve2dmn> It's a habit I
kept from when I worked in Tech support
L513[13:24:43] <ve2dmn> Because I didn't
want people contacting me directly with their issues
L514[13:26:00] <transitbiker> feel free to
comment here on the livestream by the way :D
L515[13:27:41] <ve2dmn> QualifyingRaptor:
but it's super fun to work with library protocols designed for the
1970s-1980s
L516[13:28:07] <ve2dmn> Library as in
Book... not .lib
L517[13:28:51] *
QualifyingRaptor hands ve2dmn a dozen terabytes of FITS
files.
L518[13:30:14] *
ve2dmn refuse any requests not formated according to the LOC
USMARC/ CANMARC /Z.3950 protocols
L519[13:31:08] <ve2dmn> Z39.50* ,
typo
L520[13:32:18] <ve2dmn> The modernazation
of Z39.50 (because it's a pre-web thing), falls under the
designation 'ZING'
L521[13:32:24] <ve2dmn> (I wish I was
kidding)
L522[13:33:27] <ve2dmn> And the expected
behavior must be Bath-Compliant, according to the Bath
Profile
L523[13:36:13] <Althego> bath
vcompliant?
L524[13:36:18] <Althego> now that sounds
like a joke
L526[13:36:53] <ve2dmn> "An attempt
to remedy this situation is the Bath Profile (named after Bath,
England, where the working group first met in 1999). This document
rigidly specifies the exact search syntax to employ for common
bibliographic searches, and the expected behavior of Bath-compliant
servers in response to these searches."
L527[13:37:21] <Althego> throw this out
and use an sql select?
L528[13:38:01] <ve2dmn> Althego: welcome
to the wonderful worlds of libraries
L529[13:38:26] <Althego> ever heard of
arinc 424?
L530[13:39:28] <ve2dmn> sounds
familiar
L532[13:40:01] <ve2dmn> isn't that like
the airplane ID system or something like it?
L533[13:40:10] <Althego> its description
is hundreds of pages of in what column what few characters mean
what when the record type is what
L534[13:40:54] <Althego> still in
use
L535[13:41:06] <ve2dmn> protocols never
die
L536[13:41:11] <Althego> today a sane
person would just use xml, and use an xml parser lib
L537[13:43:06] <ve2dmn> probably what the
backend is today
L538[13:43:11] <Althego> i think gopher is
pretty much dead
L539[13:43:29] <Althego> teletext is still
going
L540[13:44:13] <Althego> oh the french
optical telesocpe network is also dead :)
L541[13:44:21] <Althego> *optical
telegraph
L542[13:44:34] <Althego> morse is mostly
discontinued
L543[13:45:27] <APlayer> Is using the
upper stage deorbit retro-SRBs to achieve orbit (which was missed
due to bad trajectory) and the de-orbiting the upper stage with RCS
a valid way of not quite failing?
L544[13:45:54] <Althego> obviously
L545[13:46:06] <Althego> those are the
reserves in the design
L546[13:46:47] ⇦
Quits: Gasher (Gasher!~Gasher@broadband-46-188-123-144.2com.net)
(Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L547[13:46:52] <APlayer> Alright, let me
see if the engineer packed enough of them to save the day
L548[13:46:59] <ve2dmn> APlayer: whatever
floats your boat
L549[13:47:41] <APlayer> It actually gave
me about 80 m/s, but not enough to go for orbit
L550[13:47:50] <ve2dmn> Althego: libraries
are an interesting niche. They care about archives more then modern
feature.
L551[13:48:12] <Althego> actually it turns
out things just die out from the net
L552[13:48:17] <APlayer> Last hope is that
the RCS is enough, should have about 4 min 30 worth of
monopropellant
L553[13:48:24] <ve2dmn> They also have
weird requirement for documentation archiving, and tend to be stuck
in the past for almost everything
L554[13:48:26] <Althego> so libraries may
be here after the net too
L555[13:48:31] <EricPoehlsen> Well my
Behemoth mission ended not as intended - first I lost my refueler
probes on Gilly
L556[13:48:35] <APlayer> But the TWR is
puny, might give even less dV than the retrorockets
L557[13:48:39] <EricPoehlsen> they just
glitched away
L558[13:49:14] <EricPoehlsen> and than -
in an attempt to use the deltaV I got left wisely - I tried to do
at least duna and ike
L559[13:49:38] <EricPoehlsen> and went to
deep on the aerobraking
L560[13:49:39] <APlayer> Actually, 3 min
50 left of RCS fuel
L561[13:50:19] <APlayer> Nah, not enough
for orbit
L562[13:51:59] <ve2dmn> APlayer: go out
and push!
L563[13:52:31] <APlayer> And so the dummy
ore tank payload reenters Earth's atmosphere, with no means of
actually achieving orbit, having experienced just under 14 minutes
of weightlessness
L564[13:52:41] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Unmanned
test launch
L565[13:53:01] <APlayer> Basically what
Musk is doing with his car, I am doing with my ore tank
L566[13:53:02] <ve2dmn> APlayer: no
revert?
L567[13:53:21] <APlayer> Of course I will
revert, but it's fun to dramatize such moments :P
L568[13:54:05] <APlayer> Also, it's
strikingly beautiful, with RSS and RVE and it even runs on my
computer at full FPS now
L569[13:55:45] <APlayer> I'm totally
watching this reentry
L570[13:58:47] <ve2dmn> APlayer: what's
your CPU?
L572[13:59:56] <APlayer> ve2dmn: i5 Quad
core at 3.1 GHz
L573[14:00:00] <ve2dmn> Because that's the
only part in my current desktop that I could 'max out'
L575[14:00:08] <APlayer> But it's the GPU
that is the bottleneck
L576[14:00:28] <ve2dmn> APlayer: ok, I
think I have a sub 2.8GHz i5
L577[14:00:44] <ve2dmn> I get the 'Let's
do garbage collection every 5 sec' issue
L578[14:01:06] <APlayer> My GPU is
actually not meant for gaming, and is a workstation one. Used to be
even more trashy than it is now, but the old one (you have /not/
guessed it) melted
L579[14:01:44] <ve2dmn> If you rig runs
smooth and mine has issues, I'm wondering what you've got that I
don't
L580[14:02:02] ⇦
Quits: fhmiv (fhmiv!~fhmiv@2620:149:5:1b04:494d:c97b:4ef1:f042)
(Quit: Leaving...)
L581[14:02:07] <ve2dmn> because if it was
only the GPU, lowering the visuals would solve the issue. It
doesn't
L582[14:02:32] <APlayer> + 8GB of RAM +
all of my KSP install is on SSD
L583[14:03:20] <ve2dmn> I have more then
twice then, and I'm running it all on an SSD...
L584[14:03:50] <ve2dmn> Maybe tweaking the
swap file would help...
L585[14:04:04] <APlayer> How many mods do
you use?
L586[14:04:33] <ve2dmn> I'm not at home,
but I can find my .ckan
L587[14:05:32] <APlayer> My GameData has
111 Elements in it, I estimate I have about 100 mod folders. Most
of them are tiny modlets or individual dependency .dlls, so if you
use significantly more, that might cause trouble
L588[14:06:00] <ve2dmn> I barely use maybe
30 mods?
L589[14:06:09] <APlayer> Also, my RAM of 8
GB usually fills up from KSP, and I use few part mods. Many part
mods could cause RAM bottlenecks
L590[14:07:27] <ve2dmn> Yeah, I know I'm
not the only one with this issue, where the game run great, and
then 'freeze' for 0.5sec every 5 sec
L591[14:07:28] <APlayer> Also, lowering
the visuals does not always help
L592[14:07:48] <APlayer> Uh, that sounds
like RAM, TBH
L593[14:08:02] <ve2dmn> It's garbage
collection.
L594[14:08:21] <APlayer> Might be some
swap file causing it?
L595[14:08:28] <ve2dmn> I have 32GB of
ram...
L596[14:08:43] <APlayer> How much of it is
free when you play KSP usually?
L597[14:08:50] <ve2dmn> around 10GB
?
L598[14:08:55] <ve2dmn> maybe more?
L599[14:09:03] <APlayer> Also, where did
you find all of that RAM? o.o
L600[14:09:17] <ve2dmn> I maxed out the
Motherboard
L601[14:10:03] <ve2dmn> I test out virtual
machines of Linux for work, so I kind of routinely start machines
with 4 or 8 GB
L602[14:10:06] <APlayer> Humm, 8 GB is
actually not bad IMO, 16 GB would be more than enough for all my
needs, but 32 GB sounds... excessive, LOL
L603[14:10:23] <ve2dmn> It was cheap at
the time, so I maxed the motherboar
L604[14:10:33] <APlayer> I see
L605[14:10:34] <ve2dmn> My computer is...
4 years old?
L606[14:10:43] <APlayer> Mine might be
similar
L607[14:10:45] <ve2dmn> I wanted to keep
it as long as possible
L608[14:11:06] <APlayer> Got it as a
retired workstation from a rather big company for next to
nothing
L609[14:11:22] <APlayer> Uh wait, is 4
years old for you?
L610[14:12:01] <ve2dmn> I usually keep a
computer for 5 years, but I don't see any reason why this computer
should not last more
L611[14:13:07] <APlayer> Heh, I usually
keep a computer until it irrecoverably dies or becomes so slow I
deem it not acceptable by modern standards
L612[14:13:24] <ve2dmn> I have my previous
computer as TVPC
L613[14:13:41] <APlayer> Makes sense
L614[14:14:11] <APlayer> Does not need a
lot of resources so can use almost anything for that
L615[14:14:18] <APlayer> Need to consider
doing such a thing :D
L616[14:14:36] <ve2dmn> At the time, I was
working rotating shifts... so gaming was 90% of my 'social
life'
L617[14:14:40] <APlayer> Although my
computers are rather big to use them in such a place
L618[14:15:35] <ve2dmn> APlayer: I have
several 'recycled' computer: stuff that still sort of works, but is
missing a piece
L619[14:16:08] <ve2dmn> 30% of my TVPC is
from these
L620[14:17:01] <ve2dmn> eventually, I
throw away the rest and wait for the rest round of 'Hey, I'm
trowing away my old computer, want it' from friends and
family
L621[14:17:19] <APlayer> This rocket keeps
getting more and more features... Survived reentry without
problems, releasing payload in atmo in prograde direction launches
it off like a missile (because it weighs 23 tons compared to the
empty upper stage 5 tons), and when it hits the ground front first,
the payload adapter is destroyed, then it bounces and the engine is
destroyed, and then the tank lands safely
L622[14:17:32] <APlayer> Technically, I
have created a rocket with reusable upper stage tank now
L623[14:17:44]
⇨ Joins: Supernovy
(Supernovy!webchat@202.36.179.100)
L624[14:18:14] <ve2dmn> Supernovy: good
last-part-of-sol!
L625[14:18:21] <APlayer> Oh, wait, there
is more stuff lying around the rocket
L626[14:18:40] <ve2dmn> APlayer: what, the
termometer survived?
L627[14:40:42]
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L628[14:47:13]
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(Mod9000!deddly@bitcoinshell.mooo.com)
L629[14:47:37] <ve2dmn> APlayer: sorry, I
don't plot my data often enough :/
L630[14:47:50] ⇦
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L631[14:48:05] <APlayer> Humm, alright, so
you don't happen to know such software?
L632[14:48:41] <transitbiker> what happens
when you use a mammoth to fly a plane?
L634[14:49:13] <ve2dmn> APlayer: aside
from GNUplot? nope :/
L636[14:49:48] <madmerlyn> bought Utopia
and Synthetic DLCs today for Stellaris
L637[14:49:59] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: you
madman
L638[14:50:18] <madmerlyn> I'm gonna try
to play tall
L639[14:50:35] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: you
madman!!!
L640[14:50:55] <ve2dmn> ho, wait... just
tall. Ok.
L641[14:51:20] <ve2dmn> For a second
there, I had the impression that you were going for the one planet
challenge
L642[14:51:34] <madmerlyn> well I could
:P
L643[14:51:52] <madmerlyn> nah I'll
probably just stick to 1 early and go for core worlds only, no
sectors mid and late
L644[14:51:54] <ve2dmn> If you are going
to play Tall, try to maximize the Unity you get.
L645[14:52:27] <ve2dmn> If you can get
some powerfull friends, you might be able to pull it off
L646[14:53:19] <ve2dmn> If you spawn next
to a determined exterminator, driven assimilator or a fanatic
purifier, your strategy might be doomed
L647[14:53:33] <ve2dmn> You'll know very
early in the game anyway
L648[14:53:39] <madmerlyn> well that's why
even the best players lose 1/3 matches right? :P
L649[14:54:03] <madmerlyn> strategy games
are boring if they're easy
L650[14:54:44] <ve2dmn> I played maybe 10
games to get that 'assimilate the galaxy' one
L651[14:55:33] <ve2dmn> I win about 10-20%
of the time. I stop playing early if it's a lost cause (like being
stuck between 2 fallen empire)
L652[14:56:16] <ve2dmn> brb caffeine
L653[14:57:55] <APlayer> Do they even make
equatorial launches from the real KSC? Or is that nearly impossible
given the inclination?
L654[14:58:46] <transitbiker> the roll
program on ascent takes care of all that
L655[14:59:20] <APlayer> Sure, it must,
but they've got to travel around 1/8 of the globe in order to
arrive at the equator
L656[14:59:58] <transitbiker> that is why
so many sats come with thrusters, or boosters that get it into its
final altitude and inclination
L657[15:01:03] <APlayer> If you are
already in such a 45 deg inclination orbit, I doubt sat thrusters
will help you much in correcting it
L658[15:01:36] <APlayer> At most if there
is some sort of gravitational perturbation effect that causes this,
but I am unaware of one (on the other hand, I am not aware of many
of them)
L659[15:01:39] <madmerlyn> shuttle only
had 300m/s dv on orbit, some of which was used for deorbiting
L660[15:02:19]
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L661[15:02:22] ⇦
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L662[15:02:37]
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L663[15:03:02] <madmerlyn> I don't think
Canaveral is going to put you in a 45 degree orbit though, it's not
so much that equatorial launches are easier to achieve as it is the
fact that your horizontal velocity is highest at the equator due to
physics
L664[15:03:13] <transitbiker> roll program
plus optional booster modules that sat inside fairing is what i'm
most aware of - other options include launching from other sites,
which may or may not be logistically possible
L665[15:04:22] <APlayer> madmerlyn: Yeah,
but can't launch into a 0 deg orbit straightforwardly from such a
large latitude
L666[15:04:59] <APlayer> You need some
weird and dV-costly maneuvers to get to the equator
L667[15:05:27] <madmerlyn> equatorial
isn't necessary for most applications anyway, it's preferred
because of the free horizontal speed
L668[15:05:34] <madmerlyn> ISS is on a
51.6 degree inclination
L669[15:05:38] <APlayer> transitbiker:
Roll program is what I am looking at here, because MOAR boosters
does not seem to help in this case
L670[15:05:51] <APlayer> madmerlyn:
Looking at Mars probes here
L671[15:06:15] <APlayer> Is that a thing?
Going interplanetary from inclined orbits?
L672[15:06:23] <madmerlyn> what
significance does equatorial have on going to Mars?
L673[15:06:30] <madmerlyn> yes, I do it in
KSP all the time
L674[15:06:47] <APlayer> Well, you kind of
travel at up to 8 km/s perpendicular to the ecliptic plane
L675[15:07:40] <madmerlyn> 8km/s seems
high.. also when hitting something 100M miles away you don't have
to burn relative normal/anti-normal a whole lot to change the
approach vector
L676[15:07:57] <madmerlyn> you do your
ejection, and make a course correction
L677[15:08:20] <madmerlyn> Russia was
probing the moon practically from the Arctic circle
L678[15:08:34] <madmerlyn> with SRBs no
less
L679[15:09:00] <APlayer> Humm,
indeed
L680[15:09:15] ***
Guest18749 is now known as nasonfish
L681[15:09:19] <APlayer> So I'll research
interplanetary burns from inclined trajectories, then
L682[15:09:52] <APlayer> It's important
they stay precisely true to the calculations, still, because I need
some rather significant accuracy in arrival place and time
L683[15:10:09] <APlayer> Will be doing
tons of precise landings at direct Mars entry trajectories
L685[15:14:25] <madmerlyn> looks like the
most efficient launch inclination from Canaveral is 28.5
degrees
L686[15:14:53] <madmerlyn> which is its
latitude, makes sense
L687[15:15:35] <APlayer> Ah, 28.5 deg,
then. (Looks like 45 deg to me, but I am bad at eyeballing)
L688[15:17:51] <ve2dmn> What's the
latitude of the Ariane Launches
L689[15:18:00] <madmerlyn> also combining
inclination change, or some of it anyway, into the ejection burn
also helps
L690[15:18:01] <APlayer> Kourou, I
guess?
L691[15:18:31] <APlayer> madmerlyn: I
somehow have not considered ejecting from interplanetary
trajectories
L692[15:18:53] <APlayer> Uh, LOL, I messed
up that sentence
L693[15:19:00] <ve2dmn> I wonder how much
dV you would require to go to the next galaxy
L694[15:19:12] <transitbiker>
infinite
L695[15:19:22] <ve2dmn> I guess, wait long
enough and it gets here instead
L696[15:19:25] <madmerlyn> not infinite,
just a very large number
L697[15:19:36] <APlayer> "I somehow
have not considered ejecting from inclined orbits", that
is
L698[15:20:46] <madmerlyn> just like the
sun has a heliopause, there is a point in space where the pressure
from the center of the Milky Way no longer exceeds the pressure of
space, and you'll begin being attracted to the next closest thing,
likely Andromeda
L699[15:20:51] <transitbiker> you would
not only need to carry enough to escape the milky way, but also
enough to slow down for capture at a body somewhere in your target
galaxy
L700[15:21:18] <madmerlyn> well obviously
it's a large number, but it's not infinite
L701[15:21:48] <transitbiker> close enough
to infinite that you wouldnt want to try it, i guess is my
point
L702[15:21:59] <madmerlyn> and slowing
down only assumes you want to stop in said galaxy and that you
won't have any slingshot interactions to help bleed speed off
L703[15:22:04] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: wait
long enough and Andromeda get here!
L704[15:22:18] <madmerlyn> well by that
definition everything beyond the Centauri system is infinite
L705[15:22:20] <madmerlyn> which it is
not
L706[15:23:04] <ve2dmn> transitbiker:
there are a few galaxies that are unreachable because they are
moving away faster then we could accelarate, true...
L707[15:23:17] <ve2dmn> but I'm just
talking about 'any' galaxy
L708[15:23:59] <madmerlyn> that is based
off the expansion of the universe principle, unless the galaxies
are violating relativity they are all within capability to be
reached provided you have enough energy
L709[15:24:08] <transitbiker> we do not
possess the technologies capable of efficiently creating
intergalactic travel, so the binary fuel needed would be so large
that you'd be better off waiting in a slow ship in hypersleep or a
"generation" ship
L710[15:24:27] <transitbiker> i mean,
there are only so many resources in this galaxy we can reasonably
access to begin with
L711[15:24:56] <transitbiker> by the time
you amass all the fuel needed, you could have been there on the
slow ship
L712[15:25:05] <madmerlyn> transitbiker
going to another star likely will require hypersleep or generation
ships, what does that have to do with it being
"infinite"
L713[15:25:20] <madmerlyn> obviously we
don't have anything that capable or we'd be doing it already
L714[15:26:19] <transitbiker> im talking
reasonable estimations of resources, i mean even if the craft had
100% efficient engines and nearly massless parts, you'd need such a
huge amount of fuel, that it may as well be infinite
L715[15:26:23] <madmerlyn> we have
examined at least 1 object we know is not from our own Solar system
in origin, suggesting that the energy requirement is definitely not
impossible
L716[15:26:50] <madmerlyn> basing
everything on current technology is not a good way to define
infinity
L717[15:27:04] <transitbiker> once you
pass a certain order of magnitude in fuel needs, it's not worth it,
hence it may as well be infinite
L718[15:27:31] <transitbiker> well, all we
have is current technology
L719[15:27:50] <madmerlyn> again, you're
basing this off of what? You're just supposing that we'd need
galactic masses to accelerate
L720[15:28:18] <madmerlyn> and the amount
of fuel depends entirely on specific impulse
L721[15:28:18] <transitbiker> to dream up
intergalactric travel based on fantasy technology is a useful or
the most part, as sourcing your solar system sized fuel tanks to a
lowest bid contractor
L722[15:28:27] <transitbiker> as
useful*
L723[15:28:30] <madmerlyn> so you can't
really say, we'd need this much fuel without knowing what impulse
you're getting
L724[15:28:42] <madmerlyn> obviously our
current impulses are not sufficient
L725[15:29:12] <transitbiker> just playing
devil's advocate - i'd love to see what that kind of travel looks
like if it were in fact based on going fast vs slow
L726[15:29:33] <ve2dmn> Or if time was not
an issue
L728[15:29:56] <madmerlyn> obviously it's
unrealistic to think we're going to another galaxy, but that is not
infinite, it's not even close
L729[15:30:00] <madmerlyn> just say it's
unrealistic
L730[15:31:41] <transitbiker>
impractical
L731[15:31:44] <transitbiker> not
unrealistic
L732[15:32:04] <ve2dmn>
unimaginable.
L733[15:32:17] <transitbiker> i mean, we
would need to mine whole solar systems for resources if you want to
go the fast way
L734[15:32:21] <madmerlyn> in this case
the words are interchangeable because human lifespans are not
sufficient for that kind of duration even if you account for
timeskew based on relative velocity
L735[15:32:24] <ve2dmn>
unadjectified
L736[15:32:44] <APlayer> Unrealistic,
because anything that we are able to create in the foreseeable
future will not live long enough to arrive at a different
galaxy
L737[15:32:45] <madmerlyn> again you're
basing resource needs on current impulses
L738[15:33:07] <transitbiker> the other
issue is the controversial use of radioactive anything near
anything with humans
L739[15:33:09] <madmerlyn> which we don't
know what kind of impulse we'll get with future technology, it's
not something you can practically calculate
L740[15:33:26] <APlayer> Chances are,
humanity will not even survive before something of this kind
arrives at a different galaxy
L741[15:33:27] <madmerlyn> Nuclear
lightbulbs have clean exhaust
L742[15:33:31] <ve2dmn> how much dV can
you get with a solar sail?
L743[15:33:45] <madmerlyn> infinite as
long as you're within helipause
L744[15:33:51] <transitbiker> distance
from photon source would be an issue
L745[15:33:59] <madmerlyn> well infinite
until the star burns out anyway
L746[15:34:31] <ve2dmn> so any
current-available tech would require a very very very long
time.
L747[15:34:41] <transitbiker> we would
have to build some gigantic laser array way out beyond the
heliopause
L748[15:35:13] <madmerlyn> no, you just
wouldn't accelerate beyond helipause, and would actually start
decelerating because of the friction of the interstellar
medium
L749[15:35:30] <madmerlyn> but you'd drift
for a very long time, and if ejected properly could in some large
amount of time enter a new system
L750[15:36:04] <transitbiker> in that case
a sail may not be as effective as beamed energy for propulsion,
similar to the concept of beaming a laser to earth to transmit PV
power collected in orbit around the earth
L751[15:37:05] <madmerlyn> that's actually
a wildly different scenario, and highly inefficient. That proposal
only has merit because it's a net gain over not having anything at
all
L752[15:37:25] <madmerlyn> it's just using
PV to collect concentrated energy, at a very high loss, from
space
L753[15:37:33] <ve2dmn> Mission: You try
beamed power. Result: You ship has evaporated
L754[15:38:01] <transitbiker> if we
survive ourselves and possible intersects with large asteroids long
enough to get to the point where these things are practical and
technologically available, the products of centuries of R&D
could we be in the real of today's most fanciful fiction
L755[15:38:14] <APlayer> Result: You have
a cloud of intergalatic evaporated probe
L756[15:38:24] <transitbiker> realm*
L757[15:38:31] <madmerlyn> statistically
it's unlikely we'll ever even be capable of properly leaving our
solar system as a species
L758[15:38:36] <madmerlyn> maybe the AI we
build will
L759[15:38:50] <transitbiker> the other
issue that needs to be overcome is the gigantic delay in
communications
L760[15:39:33] <APlayer>
"Overcome"
L761[15:39:43] <madmerlyn> communications
aren't necessary to travel unless it's with the intent of advancing
science back home
L762[15:39:43] <APlayer> Because we don't
like Einstein
L763[15:40:03] <transitbiker> if we can
somehow manifest some kind of quantum hyperspace communications
system, where information is pretty much instantaneously
transferred, we could have a real shot at intergalactic
colonization
L764[15:40:13] <madmerlyn> also, light
based communication will likely go much faster than anything we put
out there so while latency will suck it's hardly a hurdle compared
to everything else
L765[15:40:52] <madmerlyn> intergalactic
colonization is both unlikely and not really something a human
would have a purpose for
L766[15:41:17] <madmerlyn> by the time
you're colonizing galaxies you're something well beyond an
organism, singularity level AI stuff there
L767[15:41:29] <APlayer> madmerlyn: Your
intergalactic probe, the product of centuries of human work, the
result of man-work-millennia, gets hit by a speck of intergalactic
dust and is destroyed. You won't know earlier than millions of
years after the incident happened
L768[15:41:40] <transitbiker> to bring
life from the earth with its finite habitability time-line seems a
pretty purposeful to me!
L769[15:41:54] <transitbiker> purposeful
thing*
L770[15:41:56] <madmerlyn> the entire
universe has finite hability timelines
L771[15:42:03] <transitbiker> right
L772[15:42:04] <APlayer> Now, that gets
philosophical
L773[15:42:11] <madmerlyn> and by the time
our star is burning out, so will most of the stars in the
universe
L774[15:42:25] <madmerlyn> we buy a little
time if we go live on planets near red dwarves for a while
L775[15:42:30] <transitbiker> we are the
only species that has the capability of taking the life from this
world and moving it elsewhere
L776[15:42:45] <APlayer> We think* we are
the only species
L777[15:42:54] <APlayer> (Just being
pedantic)
L778[15:43:05] <madmerlyn> I'd wager any
endeavor to go to another galaxy because all the stars in this one
are starting to burn out will be pointless because all the galaxies
will be in the same state of entropy
L779[15:43:08] <transitbiker> we are the
only ones currently on this planet to have that capacity ;)
L780[15:43:29] <madmerlyn> we have the
capacity to go to other inner system planets
L781[15:43:46] <transitbiker> well,
perhaps by that time we will have created some method of star
generation, titan ae style
L782[15:44:00] <madmerlyn> by breaking
relativity and physics?
L783[15:44:06] <madmerlyn> ok so why does
a god need to go to another galaxy then
L784[15:44:18] <transitbiker> for the raw
materials
L785[15:44:25] <madmerlyn> that makes no
sense
L786[15:44:33] <madmerlyn> if we're
generating stars, we don't need raw materials
L787[15:44:35] <madmerlyn> that's not how
entropy works
L788[15:44:48] <transitbiker> we could
take the raw materials from the rest of the universe to create a
cluster of stable solar systems
L789[15:44:57] <madmerlyn> still not how
entropy works
L790[15:45:03] <transitbiker> im not
talking about that
L791[15:45:18] <madmerlyn> you're talking
about making stars that don't burn out, that's not physically
possible
L792[15:45:23] <APlayer> Anyway, guys, I
am off for today, so see you! Just as a reminder (the discussion is
pretty civilized so far!), try to keep out religion, beliefs and
things that might escalate quickly. Thanks for the nice talk! See
you!
L793[15:45:35] <transitbiker> i all the
stars are cold, we would need to clump many of them together to
have any chance of igniting fusion
L794[15:45:41] <transitbiker> see you,
aplayer :D
L795[15:46:00] <madmerlyn> again, by the
time all the stars here are burning out, going somewhere else isn't
going to magically provide us with fresh resources
L796[15:46:00] <transitbiker> dyson sphere
fusion reactor
L797[15:46:09] <madmerlyn> that doesn't
solve entropy at all
L798[15:46:16] <transitbiker> whats your
idea, then?
L799[15:46:24] ⇦
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L800[15:46:31] <madmerlyn> there is no
idea, heat death of the universe is an unsolvable problem
L801[15:46:46] <madmerlyn> Asimov wrote a
great short story on the very concept
L802[15:46:50] <transitbiker> i personally
have no real problem fading away with the universe as it
cools
L803[15:46:57] <transitbiker> as a
species, i mean
L804[15:47:06] <transitbiker> when your
time is up, it's up
L805[15:47:21] <madmerlyn> again, it won't
be humans, maybe AIs we create, but nothing biological will make it
very long
L806[15:47:31] <EricPoehlsen> just steal
the energy from another reality there are enough in 10-dimensional
space
L807[15:47:38] <transitbiker> ^
L808[15:47:54] <madmerlyn> it's a
pipedream to think we'll colonize the galaxy or other galaxies as
we currently exist
L809[15:48:01] <transitbiker> we need to
find another dimension to live in
L810[15:48:04] <madmerlyn> we're
inefficient, needy things
L811[15:48:33] <transitbiker> resistance
is futile m8
L812[15:49:00] <transitbiker> i wonder
what will become of us
L813[15:49:22] <madmerlyn> borg
unrealistic too, AIs or some kind of energy-based life (which we
don't know if is even a thing) will be the only kind of being with
longevity to persist until the energy runs out
L814[15:49:37] <madmerlyn> we'll die out
like every other life form that has existed on our planet
L815[15:49:55] <EricPoehlsen> to quote
Randall Munroe "The universe is probably littered with the
ruins of civilizations that made the economically sound decision
that interstellar exploration is not worth it" (not literally
- taken from memory)
L816[15:50:26] <transitbiker> well, in the
mean time - at least the tea is good
L817[15:50:59] <madmerlyn> I mean our star
is a good one, by the time its gone if somehow we have managed to
defy all probability and not died out, there won't be a lot of
options for us
L818[15:51:14] <transitbiker> reminds me
of a movie, where the ship crashed and one of the few things
working is the tea brewing machine
L819[15:51:20] <madmerlyn> and the
universe will be a lot more boring once all the stars start dying
too
L820[15:51:24] <EricPoehlsen> and humans
are pretty resiliant and adaptable creatures - nothing short of a
asteroid breaking the planet can currently wipe out the
species
L821[15:51:41] <madmerlyn> plus throw in
expansion and you have the last living beings on a planet orbiting
a red dwarf looking at a completely empty sky
L822[15:52:02] <EricPoehlsen> the
civilization of course is a lot more fragile
L823[15:52:02] <transitbiker> the
electrical grid going out, and international trade ceasing would do
a pretty goos job
L824[15:52:14] <transitbiker> good*
L825[15:52:20] <madmerlyn> lots of things
other than asteroids could wipe us out
L826[15:52:26] <madmerlyn> run away
greenhouse affect for one
L827[15:52:29] <EricPoehlsen>
transitbiker: even if 99.999 % of mankind die
L828[15:52:39] <transitbiker> justin
bieber for one phew
L829[15:52:44] ⇦
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L830[15:53:01] <transitbiker> the laundry
pod challenge going global?
L831[15:53:08] <madmerlyn> there's also
the fact that disease could diminish our numbers to the point that
we die out, at one point in history there were as many as 4 or 5
different cousin species to humans, none of the others made
it
L832[15:53:17] <EricPoehlsen> the
survivors would be more people than have lived for a very ling
time
L833[15:53:39] <madmerlyn> if 99.9% of the
population died there's a very good chance the remaining 0.1% die
out in a few generations
L834[15:53:47] <transitbiker> still cannot
believe people are so stupid to put on of those things in their
mouth
L835[15:54:20] <transitbiker> we,, there
was that one ice age where our species dwindled to less than 10,000
individuals
L836[15:54:25] <transitbiker> well*
L837[15:55:18] <madmerlyn> you mean the
one that killed most of our cousin species off?
L838[15:55:31] <madmerlyn> granted humans
did some of the killing
L839[15:55:41] <transitbiker> i believe
genealogists call it "the big squeeze" where the
population dropped suddenly before rebounding
L840[15:55:52] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn:
survival doesn't decide who's right, it only decide who's
left
L841[15:55:54] <EricPoehlsen> let us just
be happy that we live right now in the most peaceful of all times
and belong probably to the global top 1% intellectually
L842[15:56:13] ⇦
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L843[15:56:14] <ve2dmn> EricPoehlsen: top
1% of all who ever lived ever?
L844[15:56:25] <EricPoehlsen> no right now
...
L846[15:56:52] <ve2dmn> I doubt I'm
anything but above average intellect
L847[15:56:54] <madmerlyn> statistically
if you're a middle class American you're a 1%er compared to the
global population
L848[15:57:01] <EricPoehlsen> I mean you
have a computer and you are well versed in astrophysics and rocket
sciecs
L849[15:57:09] <EricPoehlsen>
sciencs
L850[15:57:09] <transitbiker> more people
die on earth in a 24 hour period than survived that population
decline
L851[15:57:35] <ve2dmn> I mean, I have a
college degree in engineering, but an average human with enough
will can get that.
L852[15:57:39] <EricPoehlsen> well that
typos are not really intellectual - I say it's my timezone - time
to get to bed
L853[15:57:49] <madmerlyn> 1% of the
global population = 76M right now, approximately
L854[15:58:02] <EricPoehlsen> ve2dmn: nope
- you see it biased through your experience
L855[15:58:35] <ve2dmn> EricPoehlsen: yes.
I'm one of the few who almost didn't make it
L856[15:58:41] <EricPoehlsen> unfortunatly
if you open your eyes and leave your protected academic circles you
will see how stupid most people are
L857[15:58:48] <madmerlyn> odds are you're
in the top 1% of education, intelligence itself is a very hard
concept to define
L858[15:59:02] <ve2dmn> EricPoehlsen: I
did tech support. I've seen stupid believe me
L859[15:59:17] <madmerlyn> I'd wager the
very nature of the word intelligence suggests that most people are
of average capability, but education and knowledge.. those are much
more easily measured
L860[15:59:34] <madmerlyn> and fact is
most of the world population doesn't get access to much of
either
L861[15:59:37] <ve2dmn> I'm just not sure
what the ratio of intelligent vs stupid is.
L862[15:59:41] <ve2dmn> more data is
needed
L863[15:59:58] <EricPoehlsen> well
education makes a great deal
L864[16:00:40] <EricPoehlsen> the
percentage of people who are actually mentally disabled and unable
to learn is quiet small
L865[16:00:52] <transitbiker> ok, gonna
grab a snack
L866[16:00:59] <transitbiker> then
minecraft livestream
L867[16:01:01] <ve2dmn> EricPoehlsen: what
i found doing tech supoprt is that most people lack troubleshooting
skill.
L868[16:01:03] <EricPoehlsen> and even
many of those can come quiet far with the right teaching
L869[16:01:16] <madmerlyn> there's also a
massive cultural difference between the ancient ancestors who
survived a mass extinction and modern man
L870[16:01:18] <ve2dmn> like, problem
solving in general
L871[16:01:22] <madmerlyn> yes we have
more knowledge, technology etc.
L872[16:01:28] <madmerlyn> but we are also
mostly complacent
L873[16:01:29] <EricPoehlsen> yes -
problem solving and finding solutions for yourself
L874[16:01:42] <transitbiker> yes, back
then the natural world caused almost all of our woes, now it's us
causing the problems
L875[16:01:47] <EricPoehlsen> the
important trait is curiosity
L876[16:01:57] <madmerlyn> if our
population was reduced to small pockets of a few thousand
globally.. we'd likely die out in 2 generations
L877[16:01:58] <ve2dmn> I blame education
for that one, but I don't blame the educators
L878[16:02:08] <EricPoehlsen> madmerlyn: I
doubt that
L879[16:02:23] <madmerlyn> I don't
L880[16:02:31] <madmerlyn> the ancients
were better suited for survival
L881[16:02:39] <madmerlyn> it was 100%
their focus every day
L882[16:03:22] <madmerlyn> there aren't
enough boyscouts in the world to organize us if a plague wipes out
99.9% of us
L883[16:03:30] <EricPoehlsen> if we are
subject to 'darwinian situations' again - the ones unsuitable will
die faster and the fitter will survive
L884[16:03:36] <transitbiker> climate
change induced issues would probably mean that for agraculture to
work, we'd need to have those population clusters in areas where we
could either grow in greenhouses, or possibly even on floating
farms at sea
L885[16:03:45] <EricPoehlsen> and there
are still enough farmers and more who will survive
L886[16:04:14] <ve2dmn> bbl
L887[16:04:30] <transitbiker> TL-DR: life
is fragile, so get along with each other and make the most of each
day
L888[16:04:32] <madmerlyn> you're looking
at this like a 99.9% reduction in population is only going to
affect large population centers
L889[16:04:35] <transitbiker> bbl
L890[16:04:53] <EricPoehlsen> nope it is
affecting everything
L891[16:05:22] <EricPoehlsen> but the
surviving will disperse and regroup in small societies
L892[16:05:35] <madmerlyn> that's a big
assumption
L893[16:05:48] <EricPoehlsen> that is
human pack behaviour
L894[16:06:02] <EricPoehlsen> as old as
the first settlements
L895[16:06:11] <madmerlyn> humans also are
very combative, small groups are likely to kill each other
L896[16:06:24] <madmerlyn> again, ancients
were 100% focused on survival every day
L897[16:06:27] <madmerlyn> we are
complacent now
L898[16:06:47] <EricPoehlsen> if you have
to survive you will adapt to survive - or die
L899[16:07:01] <madmerlyn> which is
exactly what I'm saying, 2 generations they die out
L900[16:07:08] <EricPoehlsen> so those .1%
surviving will have what it takes to survive
L901[16:07:20] <madmerlyn> based on
what?
L902[16:07:23] <madmerlyn> the human
spirit?
L903[16:07:54] <EricPoehlsen> nope biology
- survival of the fittest and adaptiveness as a individual
'animal'
L904[16:07:59] <madmerlyn> species go
extinct, they have many times before, to think we're somehow
special or exempt from that is not being objective
L905[16:08:19] <madmerlyn> you're assuming
humanity is fit enough to survive everything
L906[16:08:28] <madmerlyn> that's
paramount to saying we're the perfect evolution
L907[16:08:41] <EricPoehlsen> nope humans
are by far not perfect
L908[16:08:57] <madmerlyn> a civilization
ending event is highly likely to result in our extinction, this is
a fact
L909[16:09:31] <madmerlyn> the fact that
our ancient ancestors defied the odds and survived the last major
climate change event doesn't mean the odds have changed
L910[16:09:59] <EricPoehlsen> Humans have
come through population bottlenecks of a few thousand
individuals
L911[16:10:04] <madmerlyn> we do have
sufficiently more advanced technology, but ultimately I don't think
that will matter in one of the many scenarios where civilization
collapses
L912[16:10:19] <EricPoehlsen> and it does
only take several thousand people to keep a stable genetic
mix
L913[16:10:24] <madmerlyn> ancient humans
did that Eric, and it was improbable then as it is improbable
now
L914[16:11:15] <madmerlyn> the specific
group you mentioned also endured because they had other human
cousin-species to interbreed with which helped bolster their
genetic diversity
L915[16:11:30] <madmerlyn> which is why
there is neanderthal DNA in our genome
L916[16:12:18] <madmerlyn> they taught
homo sapien sapiens to bury their dead, and provided a little
breeding stock to survive what would've assuredly been
extinction
L917[16:14:03] <EricPoehlsen> As long as
the total global human population is above 1.000.000 I do not see
it in any danger of going extinct as a species
L918[16:14:35]
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L919[16:14:44] <EricPoehlsen> and with
close to 8.000.000.000 living today a lot can die
L920[16:14:46] <madmerlyn> even if said
population is spread thin and no longer has the means to move large
distances?
L921[16:15:08] <madmerlyn> in a
deteriorating ecosystem
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L923[16:15:31] <EricPoehlsen> I did not
say deteriorating ecosystem
L924[16:15:41] <Phantom_Hoover> OK does
someone around here understand ksp interstellar
L925[16:15:44] <madmerlyn> what do you
think would cause the collapse of civilization?
L926[16:15:46] <Phantom_Hoover>
particularly its thermal nozzles
L927[16:15:56] <madmerlyn> 99.9% people
aren't going to die from boredom after all
L928[16:16:01] <EricPoehlsen> a
technological meltdown
L929[16:16:13] <madmerlyn> I don't even
know what that is supposed to mean
L930[16:16:15] <EricPoehlsen> or a
pandemic
L931[16:16:38] <madmerlyn> pandemic is
probably the most survivable of civilization ending scenarios
L932[16:16:55] <EricPoehlsen> madmerlyn:
if the internet would go down completly and a solar flare cook our
electronics and wipe the data systems
L933[16:17:01] <madmerlyn> but that's
assuming the pandemic doesn't have other ramifications like
sterility
L934[16:17:08] <EricPoehlsen> socizety
woulld collapse
L935[16:17:11] <madmerlyn> that wouldn't
end civilization no
L936[16:17:14] <madmerlyn> no it wouldn't,
lol
L937[16:17:51] <madmerlyn> I mean millions
of teenagers would "what is this I can't even" but
civilization would endure and recover
L938[16:18:12] <madmerlyn> we're
complacent beings, we're not the humans on Wall-E
L939[16:18:21] <EricPoehlsen> madmerlyn:
it would hurt us badly - it will lead to unrest and revolutions -
it will disrupt global supply chains
L940[16:18:32] <madmerlyn> bold and
unproven claims
L941[16:18:50] ⇦
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L942[16:19:05] <madmerlyn> you yourself
are testifying to the resiliency of humanity, you think people
wouldn't band together and rebuild if a flare killed our energy
grid?
L943[16:19:23] <EricPoehlsen> the question
is how fast we can recover
L944[16:19:26] <madmerlyn> solar flare at
most kills a bunch of vulnerable populations, doesn't end
civilization or turn the world into a dystopia
L945[16:19:49] <madmerlyn> by vulnerable
populations I mean elderly and sick
L946[16:20:25] <Phantom_Hoover> guys
L947[16:20:29] <Phantom_Hoover> this is
#kspofficial
L948[16:20:34] <Phantom_Hoover> does
anyone have any input on my ksp question
L949[16:20:39] <EricPoehlsen> sorry
...
L950[16:20:51] <EricPoehlsen> we got a
little carried away
L951[16:20:55] <madmerlyn> Phantom to
answer your question on KSP-I, no.
L952[16:21:06] <EricPoehlsen> so you were
asking on the thermal nozzles
L953[16:21:14] <madmerlyn> and this is a
discussion of space, and well.. human civilization which stems from
a conversation on space
L954[16:21:14] <EricPoehlsen> I have not
really used them yet
L955[16:21:21] <madmerlyn> which is
allowed per the rules
L956[16:21:55] <EricPoehlsen> but as far
as I know they work like the ION engines
L957[16:22:05] <EricPoehlsen> Electricity
+ Fuel > Thrust
L958[16:22:09] <madmerlyn> maybe someone
else knows about the thermal nozzles, but you also have to remember
this isn't a Help Desk either
L959[16:22:15] <Phantom_Hoover> because
basically i've found that a 5-metre pebble bed reactor plus a 2.5
metre thermal nozzle is capable of lifting a respectable payload
with a TWR of THREE POINT THREE on kerbin
L960[16:22:36] <madmerlyn> ok
L961[16:22:46] <Phantom_Hoover> which is
utterly insane, that's more TWR than an SRB and with midgame
nuclear thrust tech!
L962[16:23:07] <EricPoehlsen> they are
meant to lift huge things or make interstellar travels
possible
L963[16:23:09] <madmerlyn> well KSP-I is
in fact supposed to be highly advanced future tech for going..
interstellar distances
L964[16:23:20] <EricPoehlsen> so if you
use Kerbal Star Systems
L965[16:23:39] <Phantom_Hoover> right but
the nuclear stuff is meant to ramp up from early game
L966[16:23:40] <EricPoehlsen> you do not
want to wait 10 hours till your maneuver node is burnt
L967[16:24:05] <madmerlyn> I still don't
follow what exactly your issue is
L968[16:24:06] <EricPoehlsen> I have a mid
level game and not yet researched in that direction to be
honest
L969[16:24:25] <Phantom_Hoover> madmerlyn,
it feels OP as hell and i strongly suspect it's a bug in the maths
somewhere, basically
L970[16:24:29] <EricPoehlsen> I needed to
get my habitation parts first
L971[16:24:35] <madmerlyn> it's not a bug
in the math
L972[16:24:36] <Phantom_Hoover> unless
someone knows that that's really how it's supposed to work
L973[16:25:05] <EricPoehlsen> I'd suggest
to file an Issue in the KSPI GitHub if you think something is wrong
with the part
L974[16:25:15] <madmerlyn> I mean if you
really want to voice concern on that, the proper forum for that
would be KSP-I's github/forum thread where the author who actually
determines those things could interact on it
L975[16:25:37] <madmerlyn> but I'm pretty
sure that's WAI
L976[16:25:40] ⇦
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L977[16:26:48] <EricPoehlsen> I think one
limiting factor is the fuel for the reactors
L978[16:26:56] <EricPoehlsen> your
uranium
L979[16:27:15] <EricPoehlsen> because that
gets used (in contrast to the stock nuclear reactors)
L980[16:27:44] <EricPoehlsen> keep in
mind, those engines are not intended to do a jump to the Mun and
back
L981[16:27:54] <Phantom_Hoover>
exactly
L982[16:28:02] <Phantom_Hoover> that's
always been my impression of ksp interstellar
L983[16:28:16] *
madmerlyn scratches head.
L984[16:28:16] <Phantom_Hoover> especially
the early nuclear tech is good but limited to particular
niches
L985[16:28:54] <Phantom_Hoover> so what's
so alarming about this discovery is that it absolutely IS possible
to jump to the mun and back when you can get 3.3 TWR at launch with
>4k delta-v
L986[16:29:14] <Phantom_Hoover> just
double the fuel, you'll still be able to launch easily
L987[16:29:20] <madmerlyn> is this like
tier 3 tech or something?
L988[16:29:38] <madmerlyn> what is
alarming about OP interstellar engine being OP on planetary
scale
L989[16:29:54] <Phantom_Hoover> no! this
is the pebble bed fusion reactor i'm talking about here
L990[16:30:08] <madmerlyn> what tier is it
on the tech tree
L991[16:30:11] <Phantom_Hoover> the second
one you get after the solely-for-power molten salt one
L992[16:30:15] <EricPoehlsen> I have my
KSP not open where on the tech tree is it?
L993[16:30:26] <EricPoehlsen> how much
science does it cost to unlock
L994[16:30:28] <madmerlyn> it's a *fusion
reactor* which means it's not low tech
L995[16:30:28]
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L996[16:30:35] <Phantom_Hoover> no it's
fission
L997[16:30:37] <Phantom_Hoover> i
mistyped
L998[16:30:40] <madmerlyn> you just said
fusion
L999[16:30:42] <Phantom_Hoover> yes
L1000[16:30:43] <Phantom_Hoover> i
mistyped
L1001[16:30:53] <madmerlyn> ok, so where
on the tech tree is this
L1002[16:30:59] <madmerlyn> and is the
thermal nozzle also low tech
L1003[16:31:03] <EricPoehlsen> is it on
the 550 node or on the 300 node?
L1004[16:31:41] <Phantom_Hoover> it's on
a 1000 node
L1005[16:31:51] <EricPoehlsen> then it is
not overpowered
L1006[16:31:55] <EricPoehlsen> that is
late-game stuff
L1007[16:32:08] <Phantom_Hoover> it's
really not tho
L1008[16:32:14] <EricPoehlsen> till you
get it you have gone at least to Duna/Eve and Jool
L1009[16:32:26] <Phantom_Hoover> it's
like a third of the way up the interstellar tech tree
L1010[16:32:49] <EricPoehlsen> which
begins were the stock tech tree has already concluded (more or
less)
L1011[16:32:54] <Phantom_Hoover> oh
also
L1012[16:33:03] <madmerlyn> you think you
shouldn't have good interstellar engines until you're near the end
of the tech tree?
L1014[16:33:25] <madmerlyn> so you can't
do the majority of the kerbin star systems content until you're
maxed on tech?
L1015[16:33:55] <Phantom_Hoover> ok what
really made me think something was up is that almost every other
combination of pebble bed reactor + thermal nozzle couldn't get off
the ground at all
L1016[16:34:00] <Phantom_Hoover> at best
they could limp
L1017[16:34:25] <madmerlyn> WAI
L1018[16:34:32] <Phantom_Hoover>
right
L1019[16:34:35] <EricPoehlsen> than go
ahead and report an issue on github so the person behind it can
look into it
L1020[16:34:43] <madmerlyn> also I'm not
the author of the mod so not really sure what we're going in
circles over now
L1021[16:35:01] <EricPoehlsen> and they
can tell yo if it is intended or you found actually a bug
L1022[16:35:04] <madmerlyn> you know OPT
has an engine that runs on space magic?
L1023[16:35:19] <Phantom_Hoover> i
thought the intended behaviour was 'maybe limp to a launch from
kerbin' but then this one odd combination of reactor+nozzle size is
an SRB that burns forever
L1024[16:36:02] <madmerlyn> I mean you're
going to be doing very long burns to go to another star
L1025[16:36:07] <madmerlyn> also you said
like 4k dv, hardly forever
L1026[16:36:24] <EricPoehlsen> well
unfortunatly - as neither of us here currently talking is the
author of the mod in question we cannot comment if that is
intended
L1027[16:36:49] <Phantom_Hoover> right,
tbh i just really hate making forum accounts
L1028[16:36:56] <madmerlyn> TBH the other
nozzles are probably "vacuum" nozzles, and you found the
one that is intended as a "lifter" nozzle
L1029[16:37:07] <Phantom_Hoover> so i was
hoping someone might be familiar with the intended behaviour
L1030[16:37:12] <madmerlyn> I'm fairly
confident that is how it is supposed to work
L1032[16:37:19] <transitbiker> 1 percent
of the current estimated global population would be 76 million -
more than enough as long as a sustainable number of that remaining
are breeding pairs
L1033[16:37:47] <madmerlyn> point 1
percent is 76 million, yes
L1034[16:38:04] <transitbiker> sure
L1035[16:38:07] <madmerlyn> however that
assumes there aren't substantial losses after the crisis
event
L1036[16:38:17] <Phantom_Hoover> it
maaaay actually be a bug with tweakscale
L1037[16:38:29] <madmerlyn> I imagine if
99.9% of the population died to disease, the remaining 76 million
would have a hard time keeping everyone fed
L1038[16:38:37] <transitbiker> i'm saying
the stable population afterwards is 76 million
L1039[16:39:00] <madmerlyn> there are no
bugs with tweakscale, tweakscale modifies things linearly, which
often results in OP stuff
L1040[16:39:07] <madmerlyn> don't
tweakscale things if you want them to WAI
L1041[16:39:15]
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L1042[16:39:57] <madmerlyn> I'm saying if
civilization ends, the survivors aren't stabilized
L1043[16:40:11] <madmerlyn> feasibly we
could decline to 76 M and be fine, sure.
L1044[16:40:22] <Fluburtur> I was at the
hardware store the other day and saw oxygen bottles for rather
cheap
L1045[16:40:28] <Fluburtur> good for
reocketry needs
L1046[16:40:29] <EricPoehlsen> madmerlyn:
in my arguments concerning population loss I also meant - the dead
are gone and the surviving did already regroup
L1047[16:40:55] <Phantom_Hoover>
madmerlyn, no, there's definitely a tweakscale/interstellar bug
going on
L1048[16:41:01] <transitbiker> and let's
be honest, with how things really work, a global pandemic would be
stopped by shuttering global and cross-regional travel, basically
only those vital to basic functions would be able to travel, no
travel would really put a damper, probably long enough to find out
the pathology and therefore even more effective dampers
L1049[16:41:01] <Phantom_Hoover> i'm sure
of that
L1050[16:41:08] <madmerlyn> again.. don't
tweakscale parts if you want them to WAI
L1051[16:41:14] <madmerlyn> that's how
tweakscale works
L1052[16:41:17] <Phantom_Hoover> the
question is whether it's actually affecting the game
L1053[16:41:19] <transitbiker> wai?
L1054[16:41:24] <madmerlyn> working as
intended
L1055[16:41:25] <EricPoehlsen> some mods
do stange things on tweakscale
L1056[16:41:32] <Phantom_Hoover> also
interstellar explicitly tells you to install tweakscale and use it
to scale all its parts
L1057[16:41:46] <Phantom_Hoover> so it is
in fact reasonable for me to expect it to work as intended
L1058[16:41:48] <madmerlyn> ok then I
dunno man, go talk to the guy who maintains it
L1059[16:41:58] <madmerlyn> you've
already made up your mind its a bug
L1060[16:42:21] <transitbiker> right -
the IRC channel is not the be-all, end-all source or every issue
and question for KSP, but it's a pretty good one
L1061[16:42:27] <transitbiker> have you
checked the forums?
L1062[16:42:40] <transitbiker> the
wiki?
L1063[16:42:48] <transitbiker> the
devnotes?
L1064[16:43:14]
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L1065[16:43:41] <EricPoehlsen> okay I'm
now really out of here - my alarm clock will throw me out of bed in
little more than six hours
L1066[16:43:46] <transitbiker> contacting
the developers of mods directly can often yeild some results,
though your milage and satisfaction with said results may
vary
L1067[16:43:50] <Phantom_Hoover> oh yeah,
i've read all the documentation for kspi-e
L1068[16:43:50] <transitbiker> nite
L1069[16:43:53] <Phantom_Hoover> it's
just super spotty
L1070[16:44:12]
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L1071[16:44:12] <madmerlyn> doesn't
change the fact that if you're certain it's a bug there's nothing
else to be done here
L1072[16:44:23] <transitbiker> well, if
you got the will to do it, you could do the research and fill in
the missing bits
L1073[16:44:44] <Phantom_Hoover> i'd have
to go sourcediving for a lot of it :p
L1074[16:44:53] <transitbiker> yes
L1075[16:44:53] <Phantom_Hoover> i HAVE
gone sourcediving for bits of it...
L1076[16:45:01] <transitbiker> good
L1077[16:45:18] <transitbiker> now
imagine being a developer and how much more involved that would be
:P
L1078[16:45:48] <transitbiker> i would
contact the developer - they know their animal best
L1079[16:46:10] <madmerlyn> back on the
civilization enders though, I don't think a Solar flare is a
civilization killer
L1080[16:46:52] <madmerlyn> there would
be some upheaval in regions that aren't very stable, but for the
most part I think it results in only a small decrease in population
lasting maybe a decade
L1081[16:46:55] <transitbiker> now that
the ozone layer is on the way to being fully mended, i have better
feelings about that kind of event
L1082[16:47:32] <transitbiker> solar
flares in our boring yellow sun would not be any threat as long as
it's still in tis middle phase
L1083[16:47:43] <transitbiker> once it
starts going red, all bests are off
L1084[16:47:50] <madmerlyn> climate
change displacing millions creating a refugee crisis, and
destabilizing weather patterns and ecosystems for agriculture is a
far more likely candidate for civilization ending
L1085[16:48:09] <transitbiker> we are
already experiencing climate change refugee crisis
L1086[16:48:19] <madmerlyn> I wouldn't
call it a crisis yet
L1087[16:48:34] <Fluburtur> it's on the
news every day here
L1088[16:48:41] <Fluburtur> but the tv
only shows the worst
L1089[16:48:44] <Fluburtur> so not a good
source
L1090[16:48:45] <madmerlyn> we aren't
overburdened by the displaced people to the point where it's
negatively affecting civilization as a whole
L1091[16:48:52] <transitbiker> its not an
insurmountable crisis yet
L1092[16:49:17] <madmerlyn> it's an
urgent problem, but I don't think calling it a crisis is accurate
at this stage
L1093[16:49:27] <transitbiker> we in our
first world dwellings are very shielded from these issues for the
most part
L1094[16:50:25] <madmerlyn> thing is
rising sea levels have only impacted a very small number of people,
there's also suggestion that the seabed is sinking under the
increased weight of the water
L1095[16:50:36] <transitbiker> you have
incredibly population dense countries losing coastline and coastal
cities are slowly becoming not a great place to live unless some
kind of sea level rise mitigation measures are being
undertaken
L1096[16:50:44] <madmerlyn> which if
that's the case the problem becomes a faultline one instead of a
shoreline one
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L1098[16:51:12] <transitbiker> those
countries do not have high value economies, so they often do not
have the resources to defend their coastlines
L1099[16:51:34] <madmerlyn> again, we're
talking about very low population island nations for the most
part
L1100[16:51:52] <madmerlyn> and while
their story is a sad one, it's small potatoes compared to what will
come next
L1101[16:52:08] <transitbiker> i'd say we
are on or near the cusp of a global shift in economy and mapping of
population distribution
L1102[16:52:46] <madmerlyn> if the seabed
is sinking we might not see a refugee situation until we see
increases in tectonic activity as a result
L1103[16:53:15] <madmerlyn> which is
absolutely horrifying to think about heh
L1104[16:53:25] <transitbiker> economies
rely on stable transport and financial transactions, how does that
play with port cities needing to rebuild or move entirely to remain
viable?
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L1106[16:53:50] <madmerlyn> because most
of the stable economies aren't relying on ships making port of call
in islands
L1107[16:54:02] <Phantom_Hoover> looking
at the stock KSPI timberwind these numbers might actually be
working as intended
L1108[16:54:06] <transitbiker> river
ports will be the next big thing, because they will be less
vulnerable to storm surges and over-all sea level rise
L1109[16:54:09] <Phantom_Hoover> which
appeals to my inner lazy bastard
L1110[16:54:09] <transitbiker>
islands?
L1111[16:54:17] <transitbiker> what is
hong kong?
L1112[16:54:30] <transitbiker> what is
singapore?
L1113[16:54:41] <madmerlyn> 2 very
wealthy cities that have resources to keep their docks
functioning?
L1114[16:55:24] <transitbiker> baltimore,
cape canaveral, new orelans, capetown, perth, sidney, cairo,
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L1116[16:55:55] <madmerlyn> none of those
places are poor or have sustained any losses in port traffic due to
rising sea levels
L1117[16:56:00] <madmerlyn> anyway time
to go
L1118[16:56:05] <transitbiker> they may
as well wall off the medditeranian sea (spelling?)
L1119[16:56:11]
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L1121[16:56:14] <transitbiker> heh
L1122[16:56:31]
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L1123[16:57:13] <transitbiker> when you
avail yourself of all the facts, you'll start to realize that we
are in a pickle, a global pickle, that's alls i'm sayin ;)
L1124[16:57:29] <transitbiker> minecraft
livestream in a few minutes
L1125[16:58:21]
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L1139[18:41:35] <QualifyingRaptor>
…
L1140[18:41:58] *
QualifyingRaptor guesses to wash down Tide pods?
L1141[18:46:10] <Draconiator> I'm trying
to figure out what layout and by which manufacturer our house
is.
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L1147[19:09:56] ***
nallar_ is now known as nallar
L1148[19:10:19] <Draconiator>
https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/AMW7FpCDFDwT-Y8GASXlQ9Eoa6g=/fit-in/1200x9600/https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F538170%2F9dd6bedc-5ee9-440a-b226-55adb4c7d03c.png
- yep, Yahoo Answers pools together some of the most ...odd
people
L1149[19:12:12] <TheKosmonaut> The answer
is 50/50
L1150[19:23:03] <Rokker> Draconiator: I
mean of course it's possible
L1151[19:24:40]
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L1152[19:34:47] <Fluburtur> so, I was
playing rust with friends and it was fun
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how the hell did you get on board?)
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L1179[21:41:10] <mabus> ive pretty much
descended into full time rust
L1180[21:41:17] <mabus> i dont know
anybody else into ksp and rust, neato
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L1191[22:38:31] <cringe> ISS Urine Tank
Level: 8%
L1192[22:39:11] <Kalpa> Is that a
lot?
L1193[22:39:22] <cringe> very low
L1194[22:39:35] <cringe> but wastewater
is at 74.5%
L1195[22:39:53] <cringe> post-processing
clean only at 41%
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L1197[22:41:38] <cringe> o2 production
from clean water is 3.2kg/day (normal), so all is well
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L1205[23:10:20] <TheKosmonaut> I heard
the Russians refuse to drink the processed urine
L1206[23:10:43] <TheKosmonaut> On the
American modules, the toilets keep the urine and recycle it back
into potable water
L1207[23:10:48] <TheKosmonaut> The
Russian modules don't.
L1208[23:11:41] <TheKosmonaut> So it
makes me wonder, do the Roscosmos dudes just take water from their
modules only or is it just an administrative thing and the people
up there don't give a crap
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