OCLogs: 2018-01-12.log

Stuff goes here

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L19[02:15:24] <Arynnia> ONLY IN KSP: Single-stage Proton launch Kvant-1 sized service module to Mir-alike station

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L22[03:14:30] <Mat2ch> so, any news from SpaceX when then next static fire test will be?

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L30[04:17:50] <darsie> New mission: 5 stars for Jeb.

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L45[05:37:24] <Oneiros> hi Mod9000

L46[05:37:26] <Mod9000> How are things?

L47[05:37:36] <Oneiros> :o

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L52[05:44:16] <Fluburtur> im trying to dry the tail of my canadair

L53[05:46:00] <Mat2ch> you should make it waterproof somehow...

L54[05:46:11] <Fluburtur> I know where the water gets in

L55[05:46:19] <Fluburtur> I will put some hot glue there

L56[05:46:28] <Fluburtur> but first I need to get the water out

L57[05:49:59] <Mat2ch> Hehe

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L59[05:51:51] <Flub2> uh

L60[05:51:56] <Flub2> internet is being bad

L61[05:52:09] <Flub2> and I feel it got slower over the past few weeks too

L62[05:52:13] <Flub2> I should call peoples

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L65[05:55:00] <Mat2ch> Not just call. Scream at them!

L66[05:56:29] <Flub2> https://78.media.tumblr.com/de0fc6b310cee1b16452e2715c3416d8/tumblr_inline_o01h9l7zuv1qiap6e_540.png

L67[05:56:31] <Flub2> I guess

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L69[05:59:21] <Flub2> well putting the hairdrier on the back of the plane for several hours seems like a working option

L70[05:59:25] <Flub2> so let's do it I guess

L71[06:00:10] <Flub2> https://78.media.tumblr.com/ba6a5691d033f24db493c9ae51176ddf/tumblr_inline_mgflmkHWJR1rrzlrq.gif

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L76[06:15:29] <Fluburtur> I want a birb as large as a dog https://78.media.tumblr.com/6e61c8acf6123820a14853cc10c21bc7/tumblr_inline_o2wtwagLRt1s90hwm_500.gif

L77[06:16:04] <Oneiros> thats a crow lol

L78[06:16:10] <Oneiros> at least it looks like one

L79[06:16:14] <Fluburtur> yeah

L80[06:16:15] <Oneiros> dont you have those?

L81[06:16:24] <Fluburtur> yeah but lie not domestic

L82[06:16:33] <Oneiros> haha

L83[06:16:41] <AASRaptor> corvids are either the best or 2nd best dinosaurs.

L84[06:16:45] <Fluburtur> I got to play with a tiny crow that domesticated itself

L85[06:16:49] <Fluburtur> a jackdaw

L86[06:16:52] <Fluburtur> cool stuff

L87[06:16:53] <Oneiros> domestic crows. ugh. dont you find their squawk annoying?

L88[06:17:01] <Oneiros> ok, interesting

L89[06:17:08] <Oneiros> ok, interesting

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L91[06:17:44] <Fluburtur> they are intelligent enough to only scream when they want food

L92[06:18:06] <Oneiros> hm, maybe we got the dumb ones down here

L93[06:18:35] <Oneiros> i used to live near this tree that was always full of them, and they were always being loud and boistrous

L94[06:18:37] <Fluburtur> I was at a park in paris last year and there was a lot of crows and we were giving them food

L95[06:18:42] <Althego> get an emu

L96[06:18:45] <Fluburtur> and one pigeon came to get food too

L97[06:18:50] <Fluburtur> poor dude got bullied so hard

L98[06:18:54] <Althego> that is as close to a living dinosaur than you can get

L99[06:19:05] <Althego> as you can get

L100[06:19:09] <Oneiros> ok

L101[06:19:14] <Fluburtur> yeah but emus are evil

L102[06:19:20] <Fluburtur> less than ostriches but still

L103[06:19:24] <Althego> what did you expect from a dinosaur

L104[06:19:24] <Oneiros> i guess even the crows in paris are more sophisticated

L105[06:19:46] <Althego> the funny think in emu is that you can still find one finger on it with a claw

L106[06:19:50] <Althego> *thing

L107[06:19:56] <Althego> cant move it

L108[06:20:00] <Althego> but it is there

L109[06:20:38] <Althego> http://img08.deviantart.net/2ee1/i/2009/241/0/9/emu_wing_claw_by_aaaamory.jpg

L110[06:20:40] <Oneiros> like a raptor

L111[06:20:59] <Oneiros> oh on the wing

L112[06:21:11] <Althego> its feet are obviously dinosaur

L113[06:21:29] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/186186669324500993/401349943182491648/DSC_0649.JPG

L114[06:21:38] <Oneiros> maybe humans will grow wings some day

L115[06:21:47] <Althego> unlikely

L116[06:21:56] <Althego> unless we add them

L117[06:22:02] <Oneiros> how do you know lol

L118[06:22:13] <Fluburtur> did I ever tell you about my bionic wings project?

L119[06:22:35] <Althego> flying is a specialized thing. you need to lose a lot of weight and must be able to pump lot of oxygen

L120[06:22:50] <Althego> one way birds lost weight is by brain mass

L121[06:22:51] <Gasher[work]> and have your metabolism go fast to get energy

L122[06:23:02] <Althego> so if there are ever flying humans, those would be dumb

L123[06:23:38] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/186186669324500993/401350491138818058/DSC_6804.JPG

L124[06:23:48] <Fluburtur> that's the little domestic one

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L126[06:24:05] <Fluburtur> curious little dude

L127[06:24:19] <Fluburtur> and he followed us when we left so I had to throw it back home

L128[06:24:27] <Oneiros_> those crows look much more friendly than ours

L129[06:24:42] <Althego> is that a jackdaw?

L130[06:25:01] <Fluburtur> yeah

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L133[06:25:52] <Althego> here most birds are either in the crow family or the sparrow family

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L135[06:30:08] <Fluburtur> I put the canadair in one of the bedrooms

L136[06:30:14] <Fluburtur> with the tail on a heater

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L144[06:49:34] <Flub_ugh> what is this internet

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L149[06:52:56] <Jadoks> Hey

L150[06:52:58] <Jadoks> Hello

L151[06:53:03] <Mod9000> Hello, Jadoks

L152[06:53:25] <Jadoks> Does any of you know some random failure mods

L153[06:53:26] <Jadoks> ?

L154[06:53:37] <Jadoks> What is the best in your opinion?

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L156[06:54:46] <Jadoks> Okay

L157[06:55:02] <Jadoks> :/

L158[06:55:04] <Jadoks> Hahhahaha

L159[06:55:25] <Jadoks> I repeat the question :S

L160[06:55:41] <Jadoks> Do you know any good random failure mod?

L161[06:56:08] <Jadoks> Like, that randomly makes something fails in your rocket

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L163[06:56:17] <sandbox> I've only heard of Dang it

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L165[06:57:07] <Oneiros> UPFM

L166[06:57:37] <Oneiros> https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/160854-13-beta-upfm-a-scrapyard-based-part-failure-and-reliability-mod-091-23072017/

L167[06:57:45] <Oneiros> i havent tried the others but i like this one.

L168[06:58:03] <Jadoks> Thank you a lot

L169[06:58:29] <Jadoks> Oneiros: Do you know if this one is the one in RO pack?

L170[06:58:49] <Jadoks> Looks like what I am looking for

L171[06:58:55] <Jadoks> Thank you a lot guys

L172[06:59:25] <Oneiros> i dont think there is one in the ro pack

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L174[07:00:26] <Oneiros> it seems they recommend testflight but that isn't in the pack

L175[07:01:21] <Jadoks> Oh, okay

L176[07:01:24] <Jadoks> Thank you

L177[07:01:36] <Oneiros> you can try #ro as well

L178[07:01:40] <Jadoks> UPFM is not in CKAN right?

L179[07:01:51] <Oneiros> not sure, i dont use it

L180[07:02:04] <Jadoks> Okay, okay

L181[07:02:15] <Jadoks> I'll try test flight too, looks nice

L182[07:02:52] <Oneiros> it looks like testflight is for 1.2.2, but i guess so is ro lol

L183[07:03:58] <Jadoks> I was just seeing it right now

L184[07:04:00] <Jadoks> Hahahaha

L185[07:04:14] <Jadoks> Yap

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L190[07:13:21] <Jadoks> Oneiros:

L191[07:13:36] <Jadoks> And do you know if UPFM is for 1.3.1?

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L196[07:17:04] <Oneiros> ya

L197[07:17:24] <Oneiros> it says in the title

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L199[07:18:02] <Jadoks> Oh, true

L200[07:18:06] <Jadoks> Thanks mate

L201[07:18:10] <Jadoks> :)

L202[07:18:16] <Oneiros> :P

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L210[07:24:27] <Jadoks> Have to leave, by and again, thank you, see you around

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L218[07:52:28] <Flub2> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/186186669324500993/401372838591856640/tumblr_mm14v84Btt1ql2603o1_540.png

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L220[08:03:02] <madmerlyn> didn't realize I left this on at work heh

L221[08:06:29] <Flub2> well at least your internet is working

L222[08:06:44] <Flub2> I guess there are peoples working on the lines around here because my internet is horrible

L223[08:07:13] <Flub2> probably trying to reduce our internet but keep us paying the same too because it's becoming terrible

L224[08:08:05] <Oneiros> that sucks

L225[08:08:27] <Oneiros> im on unlimited public wifi at home, its fine for 5 bucks a month

L226[08:09:02] <Oneiros> but i wouldn't pay any more for the dropouts, intermittent usability of all google hosted sites, etc

L227[08:10:16] <madmerlyn> I pay $50/mo for 100Mbit, it's reliable, but it's just a promo rate and my ISP recently implemented data caps because "everyone is doing it"

L228[08:10:23] <Oneiros> but when you're used to living off high bandwidth unlimited broadband, it's interesting to switch things up and see what you really need.

L229[08:10:34] <madmerlyn> like that's legit what they told me on the phone when I called and asked what the reason for limiting my service was

L230[08:10:43] <Oneiros> jesus

L231[08:10:56] <Flub2> uh

L232[08:10:57] <Oneiros> they must be getting greedy

L233[08:11:51] <madmerlyn> oh yeah, Cox is the second or third largest provider in the US

L234[08:12:11] <madmerlyn> they're one of the big dogs financing politicians to gut regulation

L235[08:12:23] <Oneiros> everyone gets pushed towards unlimited plans here, but our bandwidth is way behind the US

L236[08:12:45] <madmerlyn> I'm fortunate that in my region the local electric co-op is doing a fiber rollout or I'd have no competitive options

L237[08:12:52] <madmerlyn> soon as it's available in my home I'm firing Cox heh

L238[08:13:18] <Oneiros> yeh

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L240[08:13:58] <Oneiros> i was on 4g for a while, it was around 20 a month for 40 gig IIRC

L241[08:15:41] <madmerlyn> I believe the end-game for US ISPs is to eventually control all the data, wired, mobile, etc. and have an environment legally where they can package it any way they want to extract more money from it

L242[08:15:57] <Oneiros> everything seems to be going up atm tho. the local property market went up 100% in the last 5 or so years. its a crisis here.

L243[08:16:16] <Oneiros> yeah

L244[08:16:22] <madmerlyn> since most of them are also television providers who refused to adapt in a timely fashion and are now looking to monetize through extortion instead of providing a quality service

L245[08:16:27] <Oneiros> its kinda scary how much power they have

L246[08:17:59] <Oneiros> but over there do you have several companies who own the infrastructure?

L247[08:18:13] <madmerlyn> Google is doing it right but even with all their power the other ISPs have been able to slow them down with litigation, and in some areas I've heard there were billions of dollars worth of "pole accidents" where Google's lines somehow got damaged while other providers were doing maintenance

L248[08:18:49] <Oneiros> thats pretty dodgy

L249[08:18:52] <madmerlyn> most of the poles are owned by municipalities

L250[08:19:27] <madmerlyn> and the problem with municipal ownership is, and ISPs figured this out decades ago, local politicians are a lot easier to buy off

L251[08:19:40] <Oneiros> lol yeah

L252[08:19:46] <madmerlyn> which is why something like 85% of the country has only 1 HSI option

L253[08:19:59] <Oneiros> wow really?

L254[08:20:20] <madmerlyn> my house I have 2 non-satellite options (and I don't live in the wilderness either)

L255[08:20:31] <madmerlyn> I can have Cox Cable which provides speeds up to 100Mbit

L256[08:21:05] <madmerlyn> or I can have Windstream DSL which I tried for a couple months last year, max speed was 20Mbit, but I rarely got over 10, and I had 3 major outages in 5 weeks, 1 lasting more than 24 hours

L257[08:21:16] <Oneiros> gosh

L258[08:21:21] <Oneiros> are you in the US?

L259[08:21:28] <madmerlyn> yes

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L261[08:21:58] <Oneiros> i really thought your net was miles ahead of us. that kind of service is pretty bad.

L262[08:22:03] <madmerlyn> also Windstream does some borderline illegal stuff with billing

L263[08:22:15] <madmerlyn> they told me my bill would be $50.04+taxes and fees

L264[08:22:21] <madmerlyn> get my bill, $98

L265[08:22:43] <Oneiros> you need more competition in the marketplace

L266[08:23:00] <madmerlyn> $48 in taxes and fees, I call and they claim it's because of the phone line, but when I look at the bill I had like 2 $15 charges for "internet availability" and something else similar to that

L267[08:23:03] <Oneiros> here a lot of ISPs have their own infrastructure

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L269[08:23:45] <madmerlyn> and when I called and complained, the guy seriously expected me to believe that it was illegal for their company to tell me how much the taxes and fees are before I get my bill

L270[08:24:05] <Oneiros> lol what

L271[08:24:05] <madmerlyn> okay buddy, you're not allowed to tell me how much the service actually costs until I'm already on it? sure.

L272[08:24:20] <Oneiros> no, its illegal not to tell you

L273[08:24:23] <madmerlyn> needless to say I effectively only have 1 viable ISP option

L274[08:25:00] <Oneiros> what about using phone based data plans?

L275[08:25:08] <Oneiros> im not sure what your market is like for that

L276[08:25:33] <madmerlyn> so 10 years ago when smartphones took off, the mobile networks here in the US had SERIOUS congestion problems

L277[08:26:02] <madmerlyn> they implemented datacaps back then to try to help ease congestion while they upgraded their networks

L278[08:26:24] <madmerlyn> networks are all great now (largely paid for with tax dollars btw), but the datacaps never really went away

L279[08:26:48] <Oneiros> yeah, ours is capped too, but sometimes you can find a good bargain rate

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L281[08:27:00] <madmerlyn> they're now starting to offer unlimited plans again, but most will throttle you after reaching a certain threshold, unlimited just means they won't charge you more after they start throttling the crap out of you

L282[08:27:31] <Oneiros> yup

L283[08:27:40] <Oneiros> do you need a lot of data?

L284[08:27:53] <madmerlyn> heh a lot more than any US mobile provider offers

L285[08:28:03] <Oneiros> ok fair enough

L286[08:28:04] <JCB> oop.. morn'n

L287[08:28:07] <madmerlyn> my family of 4 with Netflix, Hulu, etc. uses about 700GB/mo data

L288[08:28:18] <Oneiros> wow

L289[08:28:44] <madmerlyn> and US cell providers charge like $50/mo for 1 unlimited plan that gets throttled after like 30GB

L290[08:28:55] <Oneiros> back in my share house days I don't even think 5 gamers got close to that lol

L291[08:29:15] <Oneiros> ok yeah

L292[08:29:16] <madmerlyn> well you gotta remember streaming nowadays is all HD

L293[08:29:28] <JCB> ugh.. the days when was on dialup.. too many ISPs going into the house

L294[08:29:42] <JCB> now its... data caps, no work arounds for some places

L295[08:29:54] <madmerlyn> in the Summer months I have to put a curfew on our streaming :(

L296[08:30:08] <Oneiros> just lower the settings?

L297[08:30:09] <madmerlyn> because with the kids home from school we get mighty close to our 1TB cap

L298[08:30:27] <madmerlyn> thing is, lowering the settings isn't possible on most streaming devices

L299[08:30:47] <madmerlyn> if I were using PCs for everything with browsers it'd be a bit easier to do

L300[08:30:54] <Oneiros> idk. i just torrent, and grap the average quality. 1-2gb per movie is fine

L301[08:30:57] <madmerlyn> but like Netflix, there is no per device setting either

L302[08:31:00] <Oneiros> *grab

L303[08:31:09] <Oneiros> gosh really

L304[08:31:14] <madmerlyn> Netflix I can lower the settings, but it would lower the settings for the entire account

L305[08:31:31] <madmerlyn> so I can watch everything in blurry pixelated 480p

L306[08:31:35] <madmerlyn> or I can stream HD

L307[08:31:40] <JCB> with everyone switching from tv companies to getting much of their video fix from online... now why have they started putting hard caps on data these days?

L308[08:31:40] <madmerlyn> basically my 2 options

L309[08:31:49] <Oneiros> maybe netflix are in cahoots with your telcos

L310[08:32:01] <madmerlyn> JCB to make their TV packages more desirable

L311[08:32:06] <madmerlyn> which won't work

L312[08:32:06] <Oneiros> pushing higher bitrates so that people chew up more data

L313[08:32:19] <madmerlyn> but they don't care because there are no laws preventing them from charging more for Netflix now

L314[08:32:26] <JCB> ya but even the TV stuff comes in by digital/ISP too

L315[08:32:33] <madmerlyn> which they absolutely will do once they think the backlash for doing so will be manageable

L316[08:33:19] <Oneiros> torrents will probably become more popular then

L317[08:33:19] <madmerlyn> yes, but our infrastructure isn't the problem JCB< we can handle all the data coming down the line

L318[08:33:50] <madmerlyn> the problem is these artificial caps are just there so they can charge more to offset their loss of subscribers for their TV package

L319[08:33:55] <JCB> I remember the days when we used to push up to 1gig.. ISPs were freaking out, oh, then this so-so person /must/ be running a file sharing service, lets audit them

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L321[08:34:14] <Oneiros> lol

L322[08:34:17] <madmerlyn> and most providers, maybe all of them that have caps on home connections now, don't count their own streaming services against your cap

L323[08:34:40] <madmerlyn> so like if I want to pay $120/mo for Cox's "Contour" service, anything I stream through that doesn't count against datacap

L324[08:35:34] <JCB> a hard cap on a data though? as in, they won't let you even buy for more data?

L325[08:35:38] <madmerlyn> even though I get more quality content for $40/mo through Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and Sling

L326[08:35:54] <madmerlyn> anything over 1TB Cox charges $10 per 50GB block

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L328[08:36:28] <madmerlyn> I've honestly slacked off of torrenting because legal content is so easy to get now

L329[08:36:44] <madmerlyn> but these data caps are a real problem

L330[08:36:49] <Oneiros> ya but you gotta pay for it

L331[08:37:00] <madmerlyn> luckily as I said earlier, local Elec. Co-op is going to be my salvation

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L333[08:37:15] <madmerlyn> they're doing 100Mbit for $50/mo or 1Gbit for $80/mo, no datacaps ever

L334[08:37:37] <madmerlyn> they don't have a board of directors reporting earnings to shareholders and paying dividends

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L336[08:37:49] <madmerlyn> the dividend checks go out to each and every one of their customers

L337[08:38:07] <madmerlyn> which means they actually have a customer-oriented focus as a company

L338[08:38:19] <JCB> ya.. but was asking, can an ISP not allow you to buy more than the cap..?

L339[08:38:40] <madmerlyn> before last month no, Internet Service was considered a utility

L340[08:39:07] <JCB> (also on news.. geeze, David Letterman's look sure changed over the years... new white beard?!

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L342[08:39:11] <madmerlyn> however our fantastic chairman of the FCC recently did away with that regulation so that the "open market could provide even better service" to consumers

L343[08:39:37] <madmerlyn> so as of right now, HSI is not a utility and I think that means if Cox wanted to cut me off after 1TB they legally can

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L345[08:40:10] <JCB> ah well.. sorta a reason I've avoided getting data for my phone... there's so much crud surrounding having one, not worth my headache over

L346[08:41:15] <JCB> I'm not sure whats the story with our ISP.. my room mate deals with it. Although... I have heard complaints else where about -Unlimited internet- not really being 'unlimited'.

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L348[08:41:31] <Oneiros_> monopoloy/duopoly is not an open market

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L352[08:42:16] <madmerlyn> yes, that's what the constituency has told Ajit Pai and our local politicians for years too

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L354[08:42:37] <madmerlyn> and the bigger problem is the big ISPs actively prevent competition from entering their marketplace

L355[08:42:56] <madmerlyn> most common tactic is to bury them in legal expenses with frivolous lawsuits

L356[08:43:49] <madmerlyn> 1 million in legal fees for Cox is nothing, but making a small startup try to defend themselves it cripples them

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L358[08:44:36] <madmerlyn> I think an easy solution to that would be making the plaintiff pay the defendant's legal fees if the lawsuit is deemed frivolous by the judge

L359[08:44:54] <Oneiros_> sounds a bit like ULA and SpaceX

L360[08:45:01] *** Oneiros_ is now known as Oneiros

L361[08:45:14] <Oneiros> from what I've been reading anyway

L362[08:45:18] <madmerlyn> but then that could possibly create a problem for people with genuine grievances

L363[08:45:39] <JCB> whats the thing called when one company, purposefully cripples another company through, sometimes, illegal actions?

L364[08:45:49] <madmerlyn> maybe they should make a special law for utility providers/ISPs only where plaintiffs are responsible for defendant's legal fees if the lawsuit is frivolous

L365[08:45:50] <Oneiros> sabotage?

L366[08:46:41] <JCB> out here.. they promote compitition between things, but there are times when things sometimes go beyond, outside the spirit of friendly commerce

L367[08:46:52] <madmerlyn> that way it can't be abused to punish people with genuine grievances from suing, but it prevents the problem of monopolies forcing competition out

L368[08:48:51] <JCB> ugh anyways... not a happy way to start the morning.. sigh

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L370[08:50:02] <Oneiros> aw dont take it to heart JCB

L371[08:50:19] <madmerlyn> JCB more coffee.

L372[08:50:29] <JCB> maybe later...

L373[08:50:40] <JCB> mmm.. peach oatmeal and toast.

L374[08:50:54] <madmerlyn> I'm at a point in this career where I kinda want to start over

L375[08:51:00] <Oneiros> i find it quite inspiring what SPaceX has achieved in spite of all these kinds of difficulties

L376[08:51:12] <madmerlyn> take some of my successful launch vehicles and move them to new save and start from scratch

L377[08:51:45] <madmerlyn> I've probed every primary except Eeloo, and while i haven't gone crewed interplanetary I feel like a fresh start would let me focus more on that

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L380[08:52:12] <madmerlyn> Oneiros I think a lot of that has to do with the leadership skills of Musk, he's not just a stereotypical a-hole CEO

L381[08:52:18] <JCB> I've been messing around with some rover design ideas... though.. gotta wonder about that command seat thing. They fixed that 'kerbal gets literally ejected' problem in 1.3?

L382[08:52:29] <madmerlyn> he believes in his businesses and fights for them and doesn't give up when things get rough

L383[08:53:11] <madmerlyn> I've had some weird seat ejections in 1.3.1, but not commonly

L384[08:53:12] <JCB> Muske has said a few things that kind of ground my gears a little.. mostly to do with his self driving car stuff

L385[08:53:20] <Oneiros> ya. he's an interesting guy

L386[08:53:26] <madmerlyn> the seat in the Packrat rover would send my kerbal sailing EVERY TIME though

L387[08:53:35] <madmerlyn> I think it has to do with the seat's proximity to other parts

L388[08:53:40] <Oneiros> i read how spacex was hours from going bankrupt before receiving a nasa grant

L389[08:53:41] <JCB> I get my kerbal to get out of the seat, they pop about 10 feet up in the air and just fall

L390[08:53:58] <Oneiros> and now he'll probably go to mars

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L392[08:54:00] <madmerlyn> good thing Kerbals are so tough then JCB :P

L393[08:54:03] <JCB> I tested iwth the seat just on a metal panel...

L394[08:54:19] <madmerlyn> I love that quote from him Oneiros "I want to die on Mars. Just not impact."

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L396[08:54:29] <Oneiros> hahaha

L397[08:54:37] <Oneiros> my favourite is from the boring company

L398[08:54:48] <Oneiros> something like "digging tunnels will help us get to mars"

L399[08:54:58] <Oneiros> such a grounded idealist haha

L400[08:55:25] <madmerlyn> JCB you play with any mods?

L401[08:55:34] <madmerlyn> I've noticed the Akita command chair does not fling

L402[08:55:38] <JCB> currently just been stock..

L403[08:55:54] <madmerlyn> the Akita command chair is more realistic IMO anyway

L404[08:56:03] <madmerlyn> has a roll cage and all that built into it

L405[08:56:24] <Oneiros> i was just watching a video on that one

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L407[08:56:29] <Oneiros> konstruction

L408[08:56:34] <JCB> akita... -looks it up

L409[08:56:37] <madmerlyn> because no space agency is going to stick a chair on the outside of a vehicle without a roll cage heh

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L411[08:57:05] <madmerlyn> it's part of RoverDude's stuff, I think its standalone in the Exploration Pack?

L412[08:57:16] <madmerlyn> might have gotten integrated into MKS I dunno

L413[08:57:33] <madmerlyn> but you could just pull the parts out of the mod, I don't think they have any non-stock modules on them

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L415[08:58:30] <madmerlyn> this is the akita rover http://i.imgur.com/0qDXpU0.png

L416[08:58:32] <JCB> oh.. just noticed I didn't take a pic of my little rover-RV creation yesterday

L417[08:58:35] <madmerlyn> the command chair is 2 pieces

L418[08:58:46] <madmerlyn> the roll bars plus the flat part with the tank behind him

L419[08:58:51] <JCB> doesn't need a role cage, got a roof sorta

L420[08:58:55] <madmerlyn> has built in lights and monoP generator

L421[08:59:17] <Oneiros> i think it might be time for a new solar system

L422[08:59:18] <madmerlyn> very weak generator though like 0.2EC/s or something

L423[08:59:25] <Oneiros> a real one even

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L425[08:59:47] <JCB> just a mono-prop generator would be nice

L426[08:59:49] <madmerlyn> I think tonight I'm going to pack up my ship designs and start a new career with OPM

L427[08:59:57] <Oneiros> to help me not get so annoyed at the career R&D system

L428[09:00:18] <madmerlyn> maybe I'll do unmanned before manned to rearrange my tech tree too

L429[09:00:28] <Oneiros> yes

L430[09:00:37] <madmerlyn> CTT definitely makes things harder

L431[09:00:38] <Oneiros> nobody does manned first

L432[09:00:46] <Oneiros> where did they even come up with the idea

L433[09:00:56] <madmerlyn> well even without unmanned before manned I did sounding rockets before I sent kerbals up

L434[09:00:58] <Oneiros> unless they enjoy killing kerbals

L435[09:01:04] <JCB> I've come up with some custom parts of my own... though troubles trying to figure where to put them in the tech tree

L436[09:01:20] <Oneiros> what sort of parts JCB

L437[09:01:29] <madmerlyn> JCB CTT gives you more nodes, makes part placement a bit more logical

L438[09:01:31] <JCB> RCS thruster disk..

L439[09:01:43] <JCB> adaptor cone to service section

L440[09:01:47] <madmerlyn> that would be under one of the flight control nodes for sure

L441[09:01:48] <Oneiros> i made a tech tree mod some time ago, the whole system is now permanently ingrained in my head

L442[09:01:54] <madmerlyn> adaptor cone under construction

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L444[09:02:22] <JCB> in-line drogue, parachute..

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L446[09:02:29] <madmerlyn> survivability

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L449[09:03:02] <JCB> the service section has some fuel, batts, rcs...

L450[09:03:12] <JCB> think something like what gemini had

L451[09:03:27] <madmerlyn> I'd probably throw that up in rocketry somewhere

L452[09:03:49] <madmerlyn> or command pods, they have that in the stock tree right?

L453[09:04:13] <madmerlyn> could stick it in same node as the mk1-2

L454[09:04:42] <JCB> I was thinking some place so that it doesn't skip past something you need to research first

L455[09:04:51] <madmerlyn> I know that's a bit bigger than Gemini but the mk1 is too small for gemini, I'm thinking there will be a proper 2 kerbal pod in Making History

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L457[09:05:12] <JCB> basically the idea behind the con is, 'just stuff that got put into a structural part, where space would have been wasted

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L461[09:09:04] <JCB> ah there...

L462[09:09:15] <JCB> https://imgur.com/a/WMrkC

L463[09:09:15] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/s1CqLAv.jpg

L464[09:09:29] <Althego> nice

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L466[09:11:32] <JCB> 4t... sometimes I wonder how we get these things to the surface of other places

L467[09:11:50] <Althego> kerbals can do it

L468[09:11:52] <Althego> we cant

L469[09:12:14] <Althego> we dont have a method to land that much mass on mars for example

L470[09:12:14] <JCB> mind you... been considering doing an arctic base, using a cargo plane

L471[09:12:46] <JCB> I have a smaller car.. its only about 1t.. fits two people, but lacks the habitat section

L472[09:13:01] <Althego> cabin is a must for crew report

L473[09:13:02] <JCB> more like flat car... cart.. thing

L474[09:13:26] <Althego> my ksp cars always look horrible

L475[09:13:31] <JCB> oh...?

L476[09:13:35] <JCB> career ro stock?

L477[09:15:16] <Mat2ch> ah, tomorrow is the next try for the static fire test of FH

L478[09:15:22] <Althego> hmm

L479[09:15:49] <JCB> they say why the cancellation?

L480[09:16:02] <Mat2ch> nop

L481[09:16:12] <Althego> probably they dont want it to blow u? on the pad

L482[09:16:24] <Mat2ch> I guess some valve or sensor reported something and now they're taking a look at it.

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L484[09:16:31] <madmerlyn> last cancellation was due to weather IIRC

L485[09:16:48] <Mat2ch> Doesn't look like they're doing much, otherwise it wouldn't be this short

L486[09:16:57] <madmerlyn> they don't like doing anything with rockets if it's gusty in Canaveral

L487[09:17:20] <Mat2ch> weather? How? Why?

L488[09:18:01] <madmerlyn> I don't know the specifics for a static fire, but in general windy conditions create problems

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L490[09:18:18] <Mat2ch> true that

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L492[09:18:26] <Mat2ch> and it was windy there yesterday

L493[09:18:40] <Althego> how about yoda conditions? :)

L494[09:18:41] <Mat2ch> you could hear it in the livestream

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L497[09:20:29] <JCB> 'yoda'?

L498[09:20:45] <GlassYuri> wtf https://twitter.com/tomo_fc3s/status/951578659445288960

L499[09:20:45] <kmath> <tomo_fc3s> ?????????????(?o?)?(?) https://t.co/4vkkpkQsVT

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L501[09:21:02] <Althego> not windy condition but yoda condition. yoda condition is like if (5 == value)

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L503[09:23:07] <Althego> what is that tweet about?

L504[09:23:39] <Althego> also why is there no tomo-chan no onnanoko update?

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L506[09:24:09] <Althego> flub is having a hard time with the internet

L507[09:24:31] <JCB> yoda -> calm?

L508[09:25:08] <Althego> no, inverted order. it was an association to an other phrase with condition in it

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L510[09:25:18] <GlassYuri> Althego, disbelief about the blade having snapped like that

L511[09:25:58] <Althego> faulty welding?

L512[09:26:10] <JCB> lift truck forks are usually all one piece

L513[09:26:31] <JCB> they get made from a length of metal, heated, then bent right angle

L514[09:26:35] <GlassYuri> you can see that it was bent

L515[09:27:04] <JCB> my guess.. metal fatigue.. someone was probably lifting at the ends of the forks when suppose to lift close to the back plate

L516[09:28:15] <Althego> i was always more concerned with the payload to look at the forklift too much

L517[09:28:21] <GlassYuri> niconico is such a terrible video site

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L521[09:31:10] <JCB> should really be doing pre-work checks before doing anything with it.. but a lot of places.. people don't really bother.

L522[09:31:22] <Althego> as with any car

L523[09:31:35] <Althego> but people dont checks their cars either

L524[09:32:00] <Althego> tires, lighting, steering wheel and breaks

L525[09:32:35] <JCB> car... should do it on a regular basis... on the lifttrucks, they check /everything/

L526[09:32:58] <JCB> oil, hoses, fluids, mechanical, structrual, battery level.. ect

L527[09:33:55] <JCB> mind you.. I doubt you lift more than 2000lbs with your car every day..

L528[09:34:49] <madmerlyn> it's been 10 years since I've driven a forklift heh

L529[09:36:28] <JCB> oh.. news says india launched a rocket

L530[09:36:39] <JCB> carrying dozens of sats... had to delay to avoid hitting space junk.

L531[09:37:20] <JCB> two india weather sats, bunch of micro's from Canada here and 5 other countries

L532[09:38:02] <Althego> nice

L533[09:39:58] <JCB> also... don't know if kerbal inspired... genious, or just looks downright scary..

L534[09:39:59] <JCB> https://imgur.com/gallery/aEVsY

L535[09:39:59] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/513dUiV.jpg

L536[09:41:12] <Althego> isnt this an oil tower extinguisher?

L537[09:41:33] <Althego> i think after the gulf war they used things like this to simply blow them away

L538[09:41:54] <Althego> i know there was at least one that was 2 jet engines on an apc

L539[09:43:14] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DTrWd2Q9cU

L540[09:43:15] <kmath> YouTube - World’s BIGGEST (and most powerful) FIRE ENGINE TRUCK ever built! (JET POWERED!)

L541[09:44:50] <JCB> heh ya.. I know.. just I've a friend in south america, rather big on russian tank models

L542[09:49:56] <JCB> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGHICSMGO04

L543[09:49:57] <kmath> YouTube - Kerbal Space Program Enhanced Edition Launch Trailer

L544[09:50:09] <JCB> haven't seen it yet

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L546[09:54:34] <madmerlyn> so going to cancel Sling today, just signed up for 2 MoviePass memberships for me and wife

L547[09:54:45] <Althego> enhanced edition = 1.2

L548[09:56:10] <Althego> i wish there were keyboard shortcuts for maneuver node manipulation

L549[09:56:20] <Althego> maybe the ijklhn would be ok

L550[09:56:31] <Althego> i hate the pain with the mouse

L551[09:57:23] <Althego> hmm this big wind is hungarian

L552[09:57:48] <JCB> oh feh... it was just trailer for consols.. here was hoping they 'upped' something in the 1.2 or 1.3 version

L553[09:57:57] <Althego> nah

L554[09:58:03] <Althego> it is the new console release

L555[09:58:06] <Althego> based on 1.2

L556[09:58:07] <JCB> doh...

L557[09:58:08] <Althego> or maybe 1.2.2

L558[09:58:28] <JCB> graphic enhancement would be cool :P

L559[09:58:37] <JCB> oh wait.. mods.. >.>

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L561[09:59:51] <Althego> hah designed in my uni

L562[10:10:27] <Althego> how much of a bluff is the spacex moon tourism?

L563[10:10:33] <Althego> ok, around moon

L564[10:12:56] <madmerlyn> bluff?

L565[10:13:19] <Althego> will they do it at all? will they do it this soon as they say?

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L567[10:14:07] <madmerlyn> I think space tourism will actually be profitable as they'll probably combine it with small payloads and rich people gonna do rich people things

L568[10:14:20] <madmerlyn> so I think it's still an objective for them

L569[10:14:26] <Althego> but i dont think they are ready for this

L570[10:14:43] <Althego> at least not reliably

L571[10:14:45] <madmerlyn> first crewed mission to ISS will establish readiness

L572[10:14:54] <madmerlyn> they have to go through crazy certification with NASA

L573[10:15:16] <Althego> i would think some kind of civil aerospace organization would be more in order

L574[10:15:29] <Althego> icao or something

L575[10:16:03] <Althego> or ntsb

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L577[10:17:57] <Bacta> Hello

L578[10:17:59] <Mod9000> Hello, Bacta

L579[10:18:03] <Althego> bacta fluid :)

L580[10:18:07] <Althego> hi

L581[10:18:09] <Mod9000> Hello, Althego

L582[10:18:11] <Althego> damn

L583[10:18:15] <Althego> this always happens

L584[10:18:23] <Bacta> I'm having loads of issues getting to Duna

L585[10:18:55] <Bacta> Am I meant to gain 1000m/s or is that too fast?

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L587[10:19:08] <Bacta> Starting from Kerbin orbit, 150KM

L588[10:19:14] <Althego> around 1040 or so in case of a launch window

L589[10:19:31] <Althego> from 150 km it may be only 1000

L590[10:19:51] <Bacta> How many m/s do I need to lose on approach?

L591[10:20:05] <Althego> doesnt really matter, you can aerobrake

L592[10:20:20] <Althego> that is why duna is around as hard as the mun, delta v vise

L593[10:20:23] <Althego> wise

L594[10:20:23] <Bacta> No I mean I get an encounter but it's way off

L595[10:20:41] <Althego> what do you mean way off?

L596[10:20:48] <Althego> when do you do this?

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L598[10:21:25] <Bacta> Ok, let me rephrase. Do I need to burn retrograde to get into an orbit?

L599[10:21:46] <Althego> you need to do something. it depends on what you mean bt retrograde

L600[10:21:52] <Althego> think of it thiw way:

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L602[10:22:23] <Althego> when you do the injection fro kerbin, you will have an orbit around the sun that one side is touching kerbin orbit, the other touches duna orbit

L603[10:22:36] <Althego> you want a final orbit where both sidees touch duna orbit

L604[10:22:44] <Althego> then you would stay around duna

L605[10:22:59] <Althego> so after arriving you have to burn or use the atmosphere to get captured

L606[10:23:28] <Althego> in a way you can think of this as raising your periapsis around the sun. or you can think of it as slowing down around duna

L607[10:25:01] <madmerlyn> so I think I'm going to archive my current KSP install (move it to my bulk storage HDD) and start a new one with OPM etc. tonight

L608[10:25:06] <Bacta> So after the burn I do in orbit around Kerbin I should not need to do anything to be captured?

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L610[10:25:33] <Althego> as i said, you should need to do something around duna

L611[10:25:52] <Flub2> I might have to build a new tail for my plane

L612[10:26:02] <Bacta> But I shouldn't need to lose 1000m/s?

L613[10:26:06] <Flub2> the current one is soaked and might take long to dry

L614[10:26:12] <Althego> you will be on a flyby trajectory. you need to slow down to stay in orbit, which in the grander scheme means your periapsis around the sun rises to duna level

L615[10:26:19] <Althego> no, probably less

L616[10:26:29] <madmerlyn> if you're advanced enough you can use an Ike encounter to slow down a little before aerobraking Duna, and you could possibly capture that way, but I always plan to use at least 100dv inserting into Duna

L617[10:26:30] <Althego> but actually you can do it for almost free by using the atmosphere of duna

L618[10:26:54] <Bacta> Ok I'm going to try this again

L619[10:27:09] <Althego> http://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/

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L621[10:28:05] <Althego> this says insertion delta v is around 700 m/s

L622[10:28:16] <Althego> but you are better off slowing down with the atmosphere

L623[10:28:30] <madmerlyn> yeah you can slam into Duna's atmo pretty hard with little heating

L624[10:28:45] <Althego> around 22 km or so it would capture you

L625[10:28:57] <Althego> and then you can come back a second time if it was not enough

L626[10:29:13] <madmerlyn> well first pass captures, second pass is to adjust your orbit :)

L627[10:29:43] <madmerlyn> if your ship is not aerodynamic at all it's pretty impressive how much Duna will slow you down without burning up

L628[10:30:22] <Althego> that is the problem with aerocapture, you have to adjust based on your ship. you need to be captured, but not burned

L629[10:30:23] <Flub2> it's 5:30pm

L630[10:30:32] <Althego> precise tiome

L631[10:30:40] <madmerlyn> yeah but Duna's atmo is stupid hard to burn up in

L632[10:30:45] <Althego> we didnt subscribe to that

L633[10:30:45] <Flub2> the guys that were destroying my internet have stopped work for the day so I may finally have decent internet for the night

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L635[10:30:50] <madmerlyn> you'd have to come in at a peri of like 5km

L636[10:31:00] <Althego> work?

L637[10:31:07] <Althego> they work on destroying your connection?

L638[10:31:13] <Althego> what kind of work is that

L639[10:31:17] <Althego> government agents?

L640[10:31:18] <Flub2> apparently internet lines maintenance but that's what they all say

L641[10:31:27] <Althego> hehe

L642[10:31:46] <Flub2> but I was so pissed at that bad internet that I did something useful

L643[10:31:59] <Flub2> went into the workshop and repaired something for my neightbour

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L645[10:34:50] <ve2dmn> Still sick today.

L646[10:34:56] <madmerlyn> bummer ve2dmn

L647[10:35:06] <JCB> anyone here fly planes in ksp?

L648[10:35:10] <ve2dmn> At least the headache is gone so I might actually do something useful

L649[10:35:11] <Flub2> yes

L650[10:35:15] <madmerlyn> I have spaceplanes JCB

L651[10:35:16] <Flub2> I have a lot of planes

L652[10:35:31] <JCB> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDs7haZK7Go

L653[10:35:31] <kmath> YouTube - Boeing 727 Flap Sequence

L654[10:35:40] <ve2dmn> I do Vector-and-plane math... does that count?

L655[10:35:43] <JCB> lets see someone do this in ksp :P

L656[10:36:04] <madmerlyn> I need to rewrite my vacuum precision landing script, it's broke

L657[10:36:22] <madmerlyn> last 4 or 5 landings have all missed the mark by 2.5-4km

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L659[10:36:48] <madmerlyn> and the only thing that has changed is the orbit I'm starting from, so I think the fault is in my orbital adjustment logic

L660[10:37:09] <madmerlyn> another thing that leads me to believe this is kOS variable reported peri was 11.8km when it was actually 9km

L661[10:39:05] <JCB> anyways.. forgot how far down flaps on planes can go.. I've flown a lot too

L662[10:39:13] <ve2dmn> Did you use Ship coordinates or SOI cordinates when you calculated the target?

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L665[10:45:52] <ve2dmn> The fun thing about the flu: everything taste nothing

L666[10:53:00] <Flub2> this means you cna eat stuf youy don't like

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L668[10:54:05] <Althego> hehehe

L669[10:54:10] <Althego> i can eat that any time

L670[10:54:15] <Althego> i just dont want to

L671[10:54:36] <Althego> and btw in many cases the looks or the texture bothers me

L672[10:54:40] <Althego> so that doesnt work

L673[10:54:55] <ve2dmn> I'm an adult. I eat Ice Cream for breakfast and suffer then consequences (then do it again next morning)

L674[10:55:07] <JCB> hold your nose, close yoru eyes, bite into an onion.. you'll think it was an apple

L675[10:55:11] <JCB> or so they say

L676[10:55:18] <Althego> what do you mean suffer from icecream?

L677[10:55:23] <Althego> what can it do?

L678[10:55:28] <Althego> besides getting you fat

L679[10:55:39] <JCB> brian freeze from ice cream possible?

L680[10:55:45] <ve2dmn> I have trouble with too much diary

L681[10:55:57] <ve2dmn> give me acid reflux and headaches

L682[10:56:06] <JCB> I'd offer this can of mushed peas.. but I'm almost done it

L683[10:56:15] <Althego> so it is not the icecream itself

L684[10:56:19] <Althego> but a component

L685[10:56:23] <ve2dmn> I'll just skip eating. Much easier

L686[10:56:47] <JCB> coffee IV?

L687[10:57:17] <JCB> ugh.. you know you have problems when you get reflux from the ant-acid stuff

L688[10:58:05] <ve2dmn> JCB: that's probably more due to muscle relaxation then precence or lack of acid

L689[10:58:38] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn a lot of the code was recycled from Marcus House, it uses geo coordinates based on the ship and then impact coordinates provided from trajectories mod

L690[10:58:53] <JCB> .... news people, one of them saw the SpaceX taking off, while on a flight back from Mexico..

L691[10:59:08] <madmerlyn> I should probably just throw his code out and start fresh with my own so I have a stronger grasp of each step TBH

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L693[10:59:31] <ve2dmn> I skip geocoordinates and use vectors for everything

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L695[10:59:54] <madmerlyn> well here's the thing, when I'm landing my debugging output tells me distance to target based on impact projection

L696[10:59:56] <JCB> it hasn't hit me in a while.. though sometimes if I hadn't eaten in a while, my chest feels like its getting crushed in

L697[10:59:58] <Althego> how are coordinates not vectors?

L698[11:00:21] <madmerlyn> but then instead of burning to land, it just flies on by, and I watch that number go up from around 200m to 3500m or whatever when I finally touch down

L699[11:01:50] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: orbit vs surface reference?

L700[11:01:58] <ve2dmn> I'm trying to think what might be wrong

L701[11:02:01] <JCB> oh.. the indian rocket got delayed only a minute cuz of debris in orbit

L702[11:02:16] <madmerlyn> it pulls it from trajectories plugin

L703[11:02:22] <madmerlyn> so I'm assuming surface

L704[11:03:14] <ve2dmn> Althego: Geocoordinates are surface-based longitudes and latitudes only. They move with the surface of the body. Vectors are fixed toward the Solar-prime vector

L705[11:03:47] <Althego> those are each a specific type of vector. vector is just a tuple of numbers

L706[11:03:47] <ve2dmn> So a struct (Lat,Long) vs a struct (X,Y,Z)

L707[11:03:56] <Althego> mathematically

L708[11:04:06] <ve2dmn> If you use that definition, yes. Yes it is

L709[11:04:40] <ve2dmn> And it would simply require a matrix to change from one to the other... but since it rotates....

L710[11:05:13] <Althego> that doesnt change the fact the matrix can transform between them

L711[11:05:18] <Althego> it is just time dependent

L712[11:05:44] <ve2dmn> so a 4 dimension one...

L713[11:06:13] <ve2dmn> and kOS doesn't have true Matrix to do that

L714[11:07:34] <Althego> or otherwise it is a composite of trqansformations

L715[11:07:47] <Althego> from the sun to the planet, from the planet to the surface

L716[11:08:03] <Althego> and what is changing is the planet position

L717[11:08:04] <ve2dmn> since kOS has Vectorangles, VectorCrossProduct and VectorDotProduct , I skip the GeoCoordinate structures

L718[11:08:06] <Althego> which is known

L719[11:08:39] <Althego> i am just talking in general, because i dont know anything about kos

L720[11:09:22] <ve2dmn> In general, what you are saying is 100% exact and would probably not even be a discussion worth having

L721[11:09:43] <madmerlyn> the thing is trajectories accounts for rotation on its impact estimate

L722[11:09:58] <ve2dmn> It's Spherical vs Spherical coordinates, except one rotate with time and the other does not

L723[11:10:12] <madmerlyn> my vessel comes in after its landing burn with a trajectories impact projection of ~200m of the target

L724[11:10:31] <madmerlyn> but doesn't engage the final landing burn until it flies on past

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L726[11:11:09] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: debug output: use VectorDraw :)

L727[11:11:24] <madmerlyn> like I said I recycled another dude's code and that's probably my problem

L728[11:11:40] <madmerlyn> if it was my own code I could better visualize the logic and figure out why it's not behaving

L729[11:12:04] <ve2dmn> I recycled the 'execute_node()' from somewhere else and I hate it :/

L730[11:12:06] <madmerlyn> I just need to rewrite from scratch with my own logic

L731[11:12:53] <ve2dmn> did you try to compile the stuff btw?

L732[11:13:04] <madmerlyn> no, I've had no reason to compile

L733[11:13:05] <ve2dmn> (not that it chnages anything)

L734[11:13:18] <madmerlyn> my scripts aren't large enough to fill up default memory on kOS units

L735[11:13:30] <ve2dmn> I might try and see if it's faster or not

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L737[11:14:18] <ve2dmn> I'm writing tons of comments in my scripts and I don't want to impact the final size

L738[11:14:35] <Althego> kos minimizer :)

L739[11:14:48] <Althego> like for js :)

L740[11:15:00] <ve2dmn> Althego: that's part of the reason for the 'compile' instruction

L741[11:15:27] <ve2dmn> It makes a sort of pseudo-binary code

L742[11:15:35] <Althego> bytecoe

L743[11:15:37] <Althego> d

L744[11:15:41] <ve2dmn> You could technically write a compiler for it

L745[11:15:46] <Althego> like java and stuff

L746[11:15:49] <Althego> or python

L747[11:15:49] <ve2dmn> yes

L748[11:16:05] <Althego> which is probably how it operates anyway

L749[11:16:35] <ve2dmn> They have an internal parser and I don't quite remember the name, but it's not home-grown

L750[11:16:36] <Althego> on the fly interpreting is generally not a good idea, you are better off with precompiling it to a byrecode

L751[11:16:45] <madmerlyn> it'd be curious to see how I would go about writing python code and compiling it

L752[11:16:48] <Althego> hehe it may be perl :)

L753[11:16:58] <madmerlyn> like I know python, but I'm not sure how I'd translate that into commands for kOS

L754[11:17:13] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: you make you own names :D

L755[11:17:36] <madmerlyn> I'm not a CS major, how do I turn python code into turn the brakes on

L756[11:17:52] <ve2dmn> call the right function adresse

L757[11:18:08] <madmerlyn> how am I going to know what that is

L758[11:18:09] <ve2dmn> it's probably 'CALL %EAX'

L759[11:18:17] <ve2dmn> that's the job of the compiler

L760[11:18:43] <madmerlyn> so it'd be like a python lib or something?

L761[11:18:59] <ve2dmn> A lot of Python is just calling underlaying C code anyway

L762[11:19:15] <ve2dmn> Which, when you get down to it, is all binary

L763[11:20:45] <madmerlyn> I'm still not seeing how I'm supposed to know what to put in python to get reactions out of KSP that way :shrug: I'll stick to native kOS syntax for now

L764[11:21:19] <Althego> what does that even mean?

L765[11:21:21] <ve2dmn> So when you call things that are really in LibC, all the Python interpreter does is prepare the register with the correct information and tell the processor : "The next intruction is at this adresse in memory'

L766[11:21:35] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: you would have to write your own compiler

L767[11:22:06] <Althego> except when it does something language specific like list comprehension or some functional stuff that doesnt exist in any x86

L768[11:22:26] <madmerlyn> I'm aware of how machine language works, I'm just not sure how that helps me write python for kOS. The entire point of interpreted languages is not having to know how to send instructions on machine level

L769[11:23:17] <ve2dmn> in this case, you wait for someone to write the compiler, and that person will tell you how he intergrated the kOS libraries

L770[11:23:26] <Althego> i would just make some byte code translator. if you are lucky both instruction sets are similar and simple enough to just change one to the other with maybe 1-2 instructions for each

L771[11:24:12] <ve2dmn> Althego: I think the architecture for the kOS 'cpu' is RISC. So it might be very easy to do byte translation

L772[11:24:45] <ve2dmn> https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/general/compiling.html?highlight=compile

L773[11:25:09] <Althego> btw the kos has to be open source and that means you have access to its compiler

L774[11:27:36] <ve2dmn> not just the compiler: https://github.com/KSP-KOS/KOS/blob/develop/src/kOS.Safe/Compilation/CompiledObject-doc.md

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L776[11:27:58] <ve2dmn> They have design docs explaining the logic so that other people can write compilers

L777[11:28:27] * madmerlyn sends email with update on outstanding ISP work order to facility

L778[11:28:36] <madmerlyn> facility administrator replies "so is it working now?"

L779[11:28:54] <madmerlyn> no.. the email says it will be done today, administrator: ok sorry, your language is all Spanish to me.

L780[11:28:56] <madmerlyn> ¿Qué quieres decir?

L781[11:28:59] <madmerlyn> :P

L782[11:29:02] <Althego> lol

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L784[11:30:43] <ve2dmn> *sigh*

L785[11:30:59] <ve2dmn> Why do people have so much trouble with technology

L786[11:31:09] <madmerlyn> this is basic reading comprehension TBH

L787[11:31:17] <ve2dmn> that's my point

L788[11:31:32] <madmerlyn> thing is, there are a few administrators in my company that are.. very attractive females

L789[11:31:43] <ve2dmn> it's like: "They will be complicated. better shut down brain functions"

L790[11:32:00] <Althego> how is that a problem?

L791[11:32:08] <Althego> do males gather around them and not work?

L792[11:32:37] <madmerlyn> this particular administrator never knows what's going on and isn't highly competent at anything other than meeting people, but management loves her for some reason (have a pretty good idea on the reason)

L793[11:32:53] <madmerlyn> it's not a problem in itself

L794[11:33:18] <madmerlyn> it's the fact that the good ol boys running the company don't always stay objective

L795[11:34:12] <ve2dmn> I blame culture for not showing people how to do basic problem solving skills

L796[11:34:33] <ve2dmn> You can 'fake' success by rote memorisation

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L798[11:35:23] <ve2dmn> but then, you are never gonna learn anything. You are just a reference book with hands

L799[11:35:25] <madmerlyn> my gripe is the administrator of that facility before her was very good at his job but was let go because of a situation that was entirely out of his control, and she's basically in the same situation, maybe worse

L800[11:35:44] <madmerlyn> it's a middle/upper management problem

L801[11:35:51] <ve2dmn> Classic

L802[11:37:02] <madmerlyn> we have some attractive female administrators who are VERY good at their jobs in other facilities too, I just feel like she gets away with not being good because of her physical attributes

L803[11:37:39] <madmerlyn> kinda like how my direct supervisor gets away with a lot of stuff because he was buds in HS with the ownership

L804[11:38:19] <ve2dmn> You reminds me of the story I heard about GM's internal problems

L805[11:38:35] <ve2dmn> About how each manifacturing plant was like a fiefdom

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L807[11:39:27] <ve2dmn> And because each plant manager had a lot of power, they could not easily fix internal issues

L808[11:39:58] <ve2dmn> (eventually, the issues slowly got fixed when the managers retired and new management took over)

L809[11:40:22] <madmerlyn> seniority is a big thing in manufacturing

L810[11:40:23] <ve2dmn> Now they have a similar problem with franchises...

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L812[11:41:39] <ve2dmn> car dealership is usually a kingship passed down from generations

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L814[11:41:56] <madmerlyn> man I hate dealerships

L815[11:42:01] <ve2dmn> Turns out they need to lower the numbers of dealership they have... but they can't

L816[11:42:07] <madmerlyn> they have no scruples about selling someone a car above MSRP and do it all the time

L817[11:42:37] <madmerlyn> the new tactic is asking someone what monthly payment they can afford and never telling them the bottom line, just getting that monthly payment

L818[11:42:44] <madmerlyn> even if it's a 10 year loan

L819[11:43:20] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: one of my friend decide to keep only 1 car instead of 2 once he moved in with his girlfriend...

L820[11:43:30] <madmerlyn> we only own 1 car

L821[11:43:36] <madmerlyn> I have a company provided vehicle though

L822[11:43:46] <ve2dmn> when she called to cancel the rental she had, the dealer tried everything to keep it

L823[11:43:55] <madmerlyn> perk of having a job that requires me to travel to multiple facilities every week

L824[11:44:13] <ve2dmn> He could not even register the idea of keeping only 1 car

L825[11:44:49] <ve2dmn> luckely, my friend works in car insurance and know a lot about the industry

L826[11:45:19] <ve2dmn> She works from home anyway... so

L827[11:46:01] <madmerlyn> ultimately I want to work from home coding

L828[11:46:12] <madmerlyn> it's a year goal for me this year

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L830[11:46:28] <madmerlyn> or at least land a job at a startup where I can work from home at least once or twice a week

L831[11:46:35] <ve2dmn> I wish I could, but I work inside a big old structure that can't even imagine the idea of worker not being on site

L832[11:46:36] <madmerlyn> I've suggested that to my current employer

L833[11:46:51] <madmerlyn> hell, even if I could just work from home on Fridays that would be a huge thing for me

L834[11:47:03] <ve2dmn> luckely my boss agree with me and let me do that in exceptional cases

L835[11:47:12] <madmerlyn> get to sleep in a little bit, don't have to worry about Sherri walking in with her small problem that can totally wait until Monday

L836[11:47:47] <madmerlyn> I do about half of the programming projects for our company and it's really hard to do when you're constantly being interrupted

L837[11:48:11] <madmerlyn> my setup at home is in my garage and my wife and kids won't bother me if I'm out there coding

L838[11:48:37] <ve2dmn> One of the Linux kernel developpers lived in a van in Hawaii.

L839[11:49:39] <madmerlyn> plus, and I told my employer this, it means I'm using 20% less fuel on weeks when I don't have to do a lot of on site visits because I'm not commuting

L840[11:49:47] <madmerlyn> if I were to stay home Fridays

L841[11:50:15] <madmerlyn> but they seem to think me working in my office (which does not have a direct supervisor in it, btw, they're 150 miles away) is somehow better than me working from my office at home

L842[11:50:26] <ve2dmn> It take me an hour to get to work every morning

L843[11:50:32] <ve2dmn> I wish I could work from home

L844[11:50:58] <madmerlyn> I'm self supervising in the office already, it's silly that they can't let me do it from home

L845[11:51:17] <madmerlyn> I'm fully set up with VPN and everything, there isn't anything I can do from this office that I can't do from my machine at home

L846[11:51:45] <madmerlyn> the ONLY real advantage is it puts me 10 minutes closer to 6 facilities

L847[11:52:07] <madmerlyn> but none of our IT emergencies need me to be there so quickly that that 10 minutes would make a difference

L848[11:52:17] <ve2dmn> We also have the full VPN thing setup, but since I'm not a PHD with tenure, I can't simply ask to work remote

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L850[11:56:56] <madmerlyn> lol: https://imgur.com/gallery/SzPWfmo

L851[11:57:55] <Althego> remember, usa is the only modern nation without healthcare

L852[11:57:59] <Althego> but that is politics

L853[11:59:09] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dDRBvjcjwE

L854[11:59:09] <kmath> YouTube - SpaceX's Zuma Situation is getting Weirder!

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L858[12:07:33] <ve2dmn> Althego: we have an ID number at least: 43098 and 2018-001A

L859[12:08:03] <ve2dmn> that, of course does not give us more info

L860[12:08:12] <ve2dmn> maybe we'll know someday

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L862[12:08:34] <Althego> it is disturbing that they dont even answer whether it was a failure or a success. and it was from taxpayer money. this would enrage me if i was american

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L864[12:08:56] <ve2dmn> They probably know and can't tell

L865[12:09:04] <Althego> no, they must tell

L866[12:09:10] <Althego> they spent the money from the people

L867[12:09:13] <Althego> they must be accoutnable

L868[12:09:24] <Althego> otherwise they could just steal all the money and dont do anything

L869[12:09:28] <ve2dmn> that's not how military classified missions works

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L874[12:11:06] <ve2dmn> we'll know when it's declassified in 60 years

L875[12:11:11] <Althego> hehe

L876[12:11:16] <Althego> i wont live that long

L877[12:11:26] <ve2dmn> I,ll try to

L878[12:11:57] <madmerlyn> so we're doing another family cruise out of Galveston this November, I think I might make another trip to NASA while I'm there :D

L879[12:12:31] <madmerlyn> last time was super fun, but my girls got kinda burnt out after a couple of hours, I want to do a more thorough visit and eat lunch there

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L882[12:13:13] <madmerlyn> plus they do lunch with an astronaut there too, but I'm not sure if that schedule will line up with my cruise departure heh

L883[12:14:29] <ve2dmn> I would prefer launch with an astronaut

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L886[12:16:03] <madmerlyn> so apparently that Indian launch last night was for an asteroid mining mission?

L887[12:16:11] <Althego> what

L888[12:16:37] <madmerlyn> it's a proving mission, it won't actually mine an asteroid

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L890[12:16:46] <madmerlyn> but it's a first step in their path to one

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L892[12:17:08] <madmerlyn> https://www.space.com/39363-planetary-resources-asteroid-mining-satellite-launches.html

L893[12:17:42] <Althego> planetary resources. those really want to do asteroid mining

L894[12:17:46] <Althego> go mining lasers

L895[12:17:58] <ve2dmn> good luck getting the stuff bck here

L896[12:18:14] <Althego> the highest value would be not getting it back here

L897[12:18:16] <madmerlyn> I don't know that many groups want to bring large quantities back

L898[12:18:24] <Althego> but using it for refueling and such

L899[12:18:27] <madmerlyn> yeah I think they want to use it in space

L900[12:18:45] <madmerlyn> obviously sample returns will have scientific and monetary value for collectors etc. too

L901[12:19:01] <ve2dmn> let's bring back an asteroid made of pure gold!

L902[12:19:05] <madmerlyn> Moon Express is planning on making money from collectors

L903[12:19:08] <Althego> i am excited for osiris rex

L904[12:19:16] <Althego> ok, we still need to wait for 5 years or so

L905[12:19:27] <madmerlyn> right now the only moon rocks on Earth are owned by governments

L906[12:19:34] <ve2dmn> I'm more excited for Final Fantasy 12 on PC

L907[12:20:01] <ve2dmn> I'll believe astroid mining when I see it. I have a lot more hope in moon ISRU

L908[12:20:07] <madmerlyn> you know people like James Cameron would finance a 5 million dollar launch so they could have a 10lb chunk of moon rock in their galleries

L909[12:20:22] <Althego> okami on pc

L910[12:20:26] <Althego> sadly no gog

L911[12:21:54] <madmerlyn> hopefully the second Electron launch happens this month, they keep delaying it

L912[12:22:13] <madmerlyn> I believe the most recent delays have been payload-related though

L913[12:22:41] <madmerlyn> I want Rocket Labs to be successful, we need a good low-cost small launch provider

L914[12:23:05] <madmerlyn> Electron is supposed to deliver 250kg to LMO for $4.9M

L915[12:23:21] <ve2dmn> cheap

L916[12:23:31] <madmerlyn> indeed

L917[12:23:50] <madmerlyn> most of the other guys in the satellite business just don't bother engineering rockets for payloads that small anymore

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L919[12:24:17] <madmerlyn> RL is also the only group I know of that is utilizing 3D printing to help reduce their component costs

L920[12:24:28] <madmerlyn> most of their engine is 3D printed

L921[12:24:39] <ve2dmn> I would send a toast king figurine to the moon

L922[12:24:52] <madmerlyn> Moon Express seems to be RL's most serious customer atm

L923[12:25:06] <madmerlyn> they want to go get moon rocks and bring them back, as well as do some polar prospecting for water

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L925[12:26:52] <ve2dmn> I'm just happy to see interest in space

L926[12:27:17] <madmerlyn> well like I said earlier, the moon rock thing for collectors could finance a few launches I think

L927[12:27:44] <madmerlyn> ME goes up on a 5M electron, gets 50lb of rocks to bring back, keeps half for science sells the other half to rich collectors

L928[12:27:58] <ve2dmn> Even if most of the companies fail, the groundwork is still useful

L929[12:29:12] <madmerlyn> proving rockets with 3D printed engines is a big deal with RL too

L930[12:29:44] <ve2dmn> I'm sure the engineering on that was a nightmare

L931[12:29:49] <madmerlyn> because as 3D printing tech continues to mature that could eliminate a lot of tooling and manufacturing costs, especially in the non-reusable market

L932[12:30:38] <ve2dmn> But if you can 'grow' your structures into a single giant crystal, you limit the defects a lot

L933[12:30:58] <ve2dmn> which makes them a lot stronger

L934[12:31:01] <Althego> qould 250 kgs enough to put a human up there?

L935[12:31:10] <madmerlyn> doubtful

L936[12:31:20] <madmerlyn> we take a lot of air, water, and food, even for short trips

L937[12:31:32] <Althego> you dont need water for a few hours

L938[12:31:41] <Althego> rebreather exists already for divers

L939[12:31:43] <madmerlyn> moon isn't THAT close

L940[12:31:53] <ve2dmn> even if you only manged to reduce the number of material crystiline defect by 20%, it would make them a lot stronger

L941[12:31:54] <Althego> i mean human for orbit

L942[12:32:20] <Althego> kerbal style, with command seat and a heatshield and a parachute

L943[12:32:22] <ve2dmn> Althego: think Submarine, not diver

L944[12:32:25] <madmerlyn> average human is 62kg

L945[12:32:39] <ve2dmn> ... I'm not average :(

L946[12:32:43] <Althego> hehe

L947[12:32:52] <madmerlyn> that leaves 188kg for all life support + vessel weight and fuel

L948[12:33:07] <madmerlyn> I just don't think it's possible to do with any measure of safety

L949[12:33:08] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2mU6USTBRE

L950[12:33:08] <kmath> YouTube - "Weird Al" Yankovic - Fat

L951[12:34:01] <madmerlyn> not to mention you'd have said passenger inside an EVA suit for an uncomfortably long time

L952[12:34:14] <Althego> just for a single orbit

L953[12:34:16] <madmerlyn> much longer than the 11h spacewalks astronauts do

L954[12:35:14] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: bah. Safety, shmafety. I'm sure you can find someone to do it anyway

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L956[12:35:22] <Althego> hehe

L957[12:35:31] <ve2dmn> "There is a 40% change you'll die"

L958[12:35:33] <madmerlyn> Apollo 8 took 2d21h8m to get to orbital insertion on Moon

L959[12:35:38] <Althego> we could also replace the eva suite with a sphere

L960[12:35:42] <Althego> probably lighter

L961[12:35:48] <madmerlyn> 2 days worth of air is pretty heavy I'd imagine

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L964[12:36:19] <madmerlyn> with 188kg to work with I don't think you're going to have a very good scrubber system

L965[12:36:49] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: you would have to sent a resupply mission around the moon with 250kg of supply

L966[12:36:55] <madmerlyn> Apollo 8 was 6d3h round trip

L967[12:36:58] <ve2dmn> but that would require dicking

L968[12:37:00] <Althego> i thought of something

L969[12:37:06] <ve2dmn> docking

L970[12:37:12] <madmerlyn> lol

L971[12:37:16] <Althego> i want an adam savage - scott manley meeting, available on youtube

L972[12:37:33] <umaxtu> that would be awesome

L973[12:37:33] <madmerlyn> what no Hyneman?

L974[12:37:45] <ve2dmn> Jamie is off the spotlights

L975[12:37:47] <Althego> he is kind of secretiuve

L976[12:37:54] <Althego> but adam is still doing stuff

L977[12:38:03] <madmerlyn> apparently he and Adam weren't really the greatest of friends either

L978[12:38:13] <Althego> they were no friends

L979[12:38:18] <Althego> they said that sevral times

L980[12:38:22] <ve2dmn> They were great coworkers, but they were not friends

L981[12:38:28] <Althego> no problem with that

L982[12:38:54] <madmerlyn> I've started rewatching the old mythbusters before I go to bed, good times

L983[12:39:15] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: try the alska myths

L984[12:39:18] <Althego> arent both scott and adam in san fransisco?

L985[12:39:45] <Althego> so it shouldnt be too hard for them to meet

L986[12:39:51] <ve2dmn> I loved the Cabin Fever one. Adam was going completely crazy while Jamie Sat there like a little Budda. Not moving. Staring into the distance.

L987[12:39:54] <madmerlyn> 250kg you might be able to send your cat to the moon and back with lifesupport btw

L988[12:39:57] <madmerlyn> send your cat

L989[12:40:08] <Althego> hehe

L990[12:40:12] <Althego> moon cat

L991[12:40:29] <ve2dmn> Animals don't like 0G

L992[12:40:36] <Althego> they adapt

L993[12:40:40] <Althego> even spiders

L994[12:40:54] <madmerlyn> you could train your cat in the vomit comet

L995[12:41:09] <Althego> anyway i want an adam - scott meeting

L996[12:41:18] <madmerlyn> name the cat Sheperd

L997[12:41:20] <Althego> the sheer awesomeness that could result from that

L998[12:42:34] <ve2dmn> Althego: simple. Convince Adam to make a replicat of some movie rocket prop and convince Scott to be the 'expert' on the subject

L999[12:43:11] <Althego> obviously scott knows about adam, but adam probably doesnt know about scott because he is not a builder

L1000[12:43:28] <ve2dmn> He built a Lego Rocket once

L1001[12:43:37] <madmerlyn> does Adam know about KSP? he might know Scott if he knows KSP

L1002[12:43:47] <ve2dmn> (I did the same Lego Model btw)

L1003[12:43:49] <madmerlyn> Amy Shira Teitel plays KSP

L1004[12:43:50] <umaxtu> doesn't adam hangout with Chris Hadfield?

L1005[12:44:01] <ve2dmn> ^

L1006[12:44:10] <Althego> yes

L1007[12:44:12] <ve2dmn> They talk on twitter

L1008[12:44:20] <Althego> they even cosplayed togeteher

L1009[12:44:24] <Althego> astronauts :)

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L1011[12:45:00] <ve2dmn> There's a nice picutre of both of them in custome with Andy Weir

L1012[12:45:19] <Althego> yes i just wanted to say that they even appeared together with andy

L1013[12:45:22] *** Mead is now known as Guest77662

L1014[12:45:35] <Althego> ok, andy kind of disappeared after thesuccess of the martian

L1015[12:45:50] <Althego> he said he was working on a book

L1016[12:46:01] <ve2dmn> Adam also knows Neil deGrasse Tyson

L1017[12:46:23] <Althego> yes but they are real famous, while scott is just internet famous

L1018[12:46:24] <madmerlyn> NDGT meets a lot of pop culture people

L1019[12:46:40] <madmerlyn> it's been a while since I've listened to StarTalk though

L1020[12:47:05] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: well... you can watch one of the last ones in Comic con

L1021[12:47:09] <madmerlyn> I wish he and MacFarlane could get Fox to make a S2 of Cosmos

L1022[12:47:57] <ve2dmn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP-hefhPdDA

L1023[12:47:57] <kmath> YouTube - Adam Savage on StarTalk at New York Comic Con!

L1024[12:48:23] <madmerlyn> although was Cosmos 21st Century Fox? Maybe Disney will drop some dollars on it

L1025[12:49:06] <madmerlyn> I don't really care for Seth's cartoons, but the man clearly is excited about space and science

L1026[12:51:10] <madmerlyn> apparently last year on StarTalk NDGT said there was talk of a second season, so that's cool

L1027[12:51:38] <madmerlyn> wonder if I could get my girls to sit down and watch it with me

L1028[12:57:13] <ve2dmn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq3xtZ8AjPE

L1029[12:57:14] <kmath> YouTube - Adam Savage, Astronaut Chris Hadfield, and Andy Weir Talk 'The Martian'

L1030[12:57:30] <Althego> i saw both of these :)

L1031[12:57:42] <Althego> (on youtube)

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L1036[13:07:55] <madmerlyn> so what's the story with the mohole? was it one of those glitches turned to feature thing? :P

L1037[13:08:17] <Althego> yes

L1038[13:08:45] <Althego> you can see it on all planets, that tiny altitude differences are more visible around the poles

L1039[13:09:02] <Althego> because of the way the terrain is generated, probably from a texture

L1040[13:09:13] <ve2dmn> cuz planets are revolution-made solids

L1041[13:09:17] <Althego> and the pole is probably a singular point

L1042[13:10:03] <Althego> and this causes problems even today around the poles, just moho was special it had bigger problems than most bodies

L1043[13:10:09] <ve2dmn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_of_revolution

L1044[13:10:12] <Althego> and now it is canon

L1045[13:10:43] <Althego> easy to calculate the volume of these things :)

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L1051[13:30:17] <madmerlyn> how much dv does it take to simulate a kerbin>kerbol lagrange point I wonder?

L1052[13:30:32] <madmerlyn> like putting a sat out in front of Kerbin and then circularizing to match Kerbin's orbital period

L1053[13:30:47] <ve2dmn> That would make a Quasi-orbit

L1054[13:31:03] <ve2dmn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-satellite

L1055[13:31:25] <madmerlyn> well KSP doesn't have n-body so you can't do real lagrange

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L1057[13:33:36] <AASRaptor> Simulating being at L4/5 is "free"

L1058[13:33:54] <Althego> front of behind of the planet

L1059[13:33:59] <Althego> otherwise you cant do it

L1060[13:36:38] <darsie> The principia mod does it, IIRC.

L1061[13:36:51] <Althego> yes

L1062[13:36:54] <Althego> obviously

L1063[13:39:36] <madmerlyn> principia also ejects some of the stock moons heh

L1064[13:39:47] <madmerlyn> I'm not ready for that kind of situation atm lol

L1065[13:40:10] <Althego> i think they modified the joolian moons in the mod so that it doesnt happen anymore

L1066[13:40:11] <madmerlyn> I'm just thinking about putting some sats out there for commnet without parking them all at other planets

L1067[13:41:05] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: put a Sentinel Camera on them so you get the asteroids contracts 'for free'

L1068[13:41:20] <madmerlyn> excellent idea

L1069[13:41:36] <madmerlyn> I'm still trying to figure out how that works, because some of them want satellites near Eve etc.

L1070[13:41:46] <ve2dmn> And then you put them on a circular orbit between Kerbin and Eve

L1071[13:41:57] <madmerlyn> do you just throw them all over the system and asteroids show up earlier than they would in the tracking center normally?

L1072[13:42:32] <ve2dmn> It create new astroids in bizarre orbits usually

L1073[13:43:03] <ve2dmn> like a class E in a 30degree inclination orbit between Kerbin and Duna

L1074[13:43:29] <madmerlyn> I will say one thing I don't like a whole lot with USI+CTT, I don't get good station parts until pretty far down the tree, which necessitates doing moon explorations at length just to get a decent LKO station up and running

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L1076[13:43:56] <madmerlyn> went on a tangent there, don't know why asteroids made me think of that

L1077[13:44:32] <madmerlyn> so should I put a sentinel in the spaces between eve and kerbin and between kerbin and duna?

L1078[13:45:59] <madmerlyn> wonder how hard it would be to do 2 sats in opposition orbits like this for a farside comm-relay https://i.redd.it/vzr97197imry.gif

L1079[13:46:49] <madmerlyn> if they were properly 180 degrees apart you'd always have full coverage on the farside with only 2 sats

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L1081[13:51:54] <madmerlyn> and I wonder if you could set up a Sentinel satellite in an orbit like that around Kerbin :O

L1082[13:52:33] <madmerlyn> that would be a proper quasi-satellite like ve2dmn said :D

L1083[13:53:46] <ve2dmn> might not cover the Sentinel contracts, but it would work for Commnet

L1084[13:54:13] <madmerlyn> it should still spawn asteroids out there shouldn't it?

L1085[13:54:26] <madmerlyn> I've also noticed the deviation for sentinel orbits is pretty high

L1086[13:54:30] <ve2dmn> I believe so

L1087[13:54:40] <madmerlyn> like I took a contract for one, the orbit line was NOWHERE NEAR the sentinel I had out there

L1088[13:54:52] <madmerlyn> 10 seconds later it switched the target orbit off

L1089[13:54:52] <ve2dmn> Yeah, it 'commandeers' the asteroid generation routine

L1090[13:55:46] <ve2dmn> It force the game to generate a new asteroid, and then switch it around

L1091[13:55:50] <ve2dmn> I brb

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L1094[14:12:09] <madmerlyn> so just discovered this, will be handy when I install OPM later today https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/153125-13-jx2antenna-v202-giant-1000g-antenna-for-big-solar-systems/

L1095[14:12:26] <madmerlyn> going to disable the MM script in OPM that makes all the stock antennas OP

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L1097[14:13:33] <madmerlyn> or maybe instead of doing OPM I'll do something completely new like GPP

L1098[14:14:02] <madmerlyn> is Gael a lot harder to make orbit on than Kerbin?

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L1101[14:16:38] <madmerlyn> eh, I think I'll start with OPM and do GPP after heh

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L1103[14:25:10] <APlayer> Hi there!

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L1106[14:34:05] <madmerlyn> hey APlayer

L1107[14:34:18] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn I think I am going to spreadsheet my USI-LS calculator after all

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L1110[14:34:55] <madmerlyn> instead of having it figure out your mass for you I'm just going to make it where you put in your converters and recyclers and it tells you how many supplies etc. and gross weight

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L1114[14:35:54] <APlayer> Guys, my new GPU arrived

L1115[14:36:08] <madmerlyn> whew, I've been waiting for that

L1116[14:36:09] <APlayer> I just launched KSP, and IT'S SO SMOOTH!

L1117[14:36:09] <Mjolnir> What'd you get?

L1118[14:36:21] <Althego> ksp is mostly cpu limited, at least stock

L1119[14:36:31] <Althego> my gpu fan barely moves

L1120[14:36:34] <APlayer> The difference is very subtle, but man, the feel is awesome

L1121[14:36:51] <APlayer> Althego: My GPU was an AMD Radeon 6050

L1122[14:36:55] <APlayer> It was trash

L1123[14:37:16] <APlayer> I can now point any direction I want and KSP won't lag! :D

L1124[14:37:25] <Althego> hwhw

L1125[14:37:26] <APlayer> I used to have to point at the sky for this

L1126[14:37:45] <APlayer> Awesome! :D

L1127[14:39:34] <APlayer> Heh, my KSP must have been stuttering with the old one, really, because every moves so unnoticeably faster... It's interesting, really

L1128[14:40:33] <APlayer> Is there a way to see the FPS in stock KSP or perhaps with KER?

L1129[14:43:13] <madmerlyn> steam has one, not sure about KSP direction though

L1130[14:43:15] <Althego> there is something in the cheat menu

L1131[14:43:19] <Althego> alt-f12

L1132[14:43:31] <Althego> at least i remember some graphs

L1133[14:43:43] <Althego> or you can just start a video recording program, those usually show framerate

L1134[14:45:13] <umaxtu> I use MSI afterburner

L1135[14:46:52] <APlayer> Humm, haven't found anything in the F12 menu

L1136[14:47:36] <Althego> i use afterburnet to eliminate the once a minute fan noise in ksp to decrease fan speed in the editor

L1137[14:48:01] <APlayer> There is some sort of cryptic graph, that could be the FPS

L1138[14:48:29] <APlayer> In that case, it is around 25 - 50

L1139[14:48:54] <APlayer> Huh, no, it changes way too much

L1140[14:49:37] <APlayer> Spiking up to 120... Whatever that is, doesn't look like FPS, TBH

L1141[14:51:29] <APlayer> Let me see if it runs EVE and perhaps even scatterer

L1142[15:06:51] <APlayer> Woah, it runs scatterer! Not well, it stutters very slightly, but I guess I can optimize my settings there

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L1144[15:18:51] <ve2dmn> APlayer: what's the new GPU?

L1145[15:19:04] <APlayer> Nvidia Quadro 2000

L1146[15:19:22] <Kalpa> Q-quadro

L1147[15:19:23] <APlayer> Still not top high end, but much better than the old one

L1148[15:19:31] <Kalpa> You're no consumer pleb then. You do professional work?

L1149[15:20:34] <APlayer> No, not professional. My PC is very much workstation optimized, because I do 1) Lots of browser windows, 2) some KSP and 3) some CAD stuff

L1150[15:20:43] <APlayer> In that order of quantity

L1151[15:22:17] <APlayer> Why? How would you classify this GPU?

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L1153[15:22:47] <Kalpa> Well just it being a quadro :p

L1154[15:22:54] <APlayer> Huh

L1155[15:24:05] <Kalpa> What you pay for in the quadro lineup are mostly (correct me if I'm wrong) ECC memory and driver validation to certain standards

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L1157[15:25:35] <Kalpa> So usually your standard consumer wouldn't bother with them :-)

L1158[15:26:15] <Kalpa> But yeah, you do CAD work, that's probably enough of a reason.

L1159[15:26:36] <APlayer> Ah. Well, I bought a used but nearly new one for 20€, so it didn't make much difference

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L1161[15:27:59] <Kalpa> That certainly works =)

L1162[15:28:39] <APlayer> I received my PC initially as a retired workstation from a rather large company for next to no money (50€ for an i5 Quad core CPU + 8 GB RAM + 128 GB SSD + trash GPU), and for an additional 20€ we now bought that GPU, which we were recommended from that same company as a good workstation GPU

L1163[15:29:22] <APlayer> I'd say this was a rather good deal. Both of them.

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L1170[15:39:12] <APlayer> Anyway, I'm off for today. Cya!

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L1178[15:48:10] <nick1> hi guys just got a quick query... i spent a while designing and testing a ship for a 1 way unmanned mission to deliver a rover to Moho. i kept removing Kerbals from my ship since it annoyingly keeps putting them back in and i keep taking them out... however

L1179[15:48:14] <Supernovy> Evening, Gentlemen.

L1180[15:48:58] <nick1> i let one check slip through the net and on an encounter with Moho noticed 3 of them sitting there, i'm rather P****** .... so does anyone know a way to remove them without restarting the mission?

L1181[15:49:37] <ve2dmn> One way is editing the save

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L1183[15:52:32] <nick1> Hi Ve2dmn. do mean in the text files?

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L1185[15:53:07] <nick1> i will be happy to 'cheat' since i don't believe this is my bad

L1186[15:53:36] <madmerlyn> man I hate working with spreadsheets lol

L1187[15:53:47] <ve2dmn> yeah. The persistent.dfd

L1188[15:53:53] <madmerlyn> so I've got it where my agroponics production sums properly after picking up to 5 agros

L1189[15:54:01] <ve2dmn> persistent.sfs*

L1190[15:54:10] <nick1> can i use hyperedit to move my kerbals from my ship in space to the austronaut complex

L1191[15:54:19] <ve2dmn> nick1: make a named quicksave and change that

L1192[15:54:47] <ve2dmn> nick1: not sure, but you could probably put a capsule on the launchpad and move them there

L1193[15:54:58] <nick1> i can use Ctrl8 to save as

L1194[15:55:11] <Ezriilc> nick1, yes you can.

L1195[15:55:26] <nick1> hmm clever, transfer to different ships somehow?

L1196[15:55:37] <Ezriilc> You go EVA, then edit your orbit to rendesvous with the target ship.

L1197[15:55:53] <madmerlyn> I really need to figure out how to script some of this so I can put this monster in a loop instead of a super long = function

L1198[15:56:06] <Ezriilc> Then you just need to use your RCS while in EVA to get to the hatch of your other ship.

L1199[15:56:07] <ve2dmn> Hyperedit can probably do eventhing for you

L1200[15:56:16] <nick1> i might see if i can move kerbals through Hyperedit, and put them back on the ship on the launchpad.

L1201[15:56:22] <nick1> 2 ticks i'll check

L1202[15:56:30] <ve2dmn> Ezriilc: nick1 want to bring them back to KSC.

L1203[15:56:34] <Ezriilc> nick1, let me know if you have any trouble with HyperEdit.

L1204[15:57:02] <Ezriilc> Yea, you can use the Lander to put any vessel (even a Kerbal) to land at the KSC.

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L1207[16:00:22] <nick1> hmm i cannot seem to find anything to do with kerbals,

L1208[16:00:38] <nick1> my issue with changing my orbit is that i won't be able to return to where i am right now

L1209[16:03:23] <madmerlyn> so I have the agroponics calculator done so you can easily match production to consumption, but properly calculating the Recyclers is going to be a bear

L1210[16:03:39] <nick1> yeah i seem to be struggling to get my kerbals back to the KSP hangar

L1211[16:03:46] <madmerlyn> because it has to match the recycler's modifier to number of kerbals

L1212[16:04:42] <madmerlyn> so you're just wanting to put your kerbals back home?

L1213[16:04:50] <nick1> yeah basically

L1214[16:04:55] <madmerlyn> step 1) back up your save file

L1215[16:04:59] <nick1> without changing my ships orbit

L1216[16:05:03] <nick1> yep

L1217[16:05:21] <madmerlyn> step 2) edit save file, find the vessel in your save file and delete the line that says `crew = Jebediah Kerman` etc.

L1218[16:05:30] <nick1> yeah

L1219[16:06:10] <nick1> do you put crew = 0 or just delete the entire line?

L1220[16:06:26] <madmerlyn> step 3) search save file for your kerbals by name, and change their state to `state = Available`

L1221[16:06:53] <madmerlyn> just delete the line

L1222[16:06:55] <nick1> ok

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L1224[16:07:50] <Malachite> countdown

L1225[16:07:55] <Malachite> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9O-JH4DtiQ

L1226[16:07:55] <kmath> YouTube - Delta IV NROL-47 Live Launch Broadcast (Jan. 12, 2018)

L1227[16:08:09] <madmerlyn> ha I was wondering if they were going to scrub yesterday's launch

L1228[16:08:12] <madmerlyn> I gave up after about an hour

L1229[16:08:29] <petti> 3 minutes \o/

L1230[16:08:36] <nick1> ok merlyn i'm about to try this technique

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L1233[16:11:06] <nick1> do i have to quit the game before messing in the persistent file? or just any point and then reload and hey-presto all's fine?

L1234[16:11:55] <Malachite> jesus that hydrogen fire was nasty

L1235[16:11:56] <madmerlyn> do the deltas always set themselves on fire before liftoff?

L1236[16:12:09] <Neal> that was cincerning

L1237[16:12:17] <madmerlyn> I would exit to main menu before editing

L1238[16:12:41] <madmerlyn> I seriously thought the rocket was going to explode for a second there

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L1240[16:12:53] <Neal> same

L1241[16:13:17] <Neal> its probably just the way the launch pad was designed, maybe exhaust gases reflected off something

L1242[16:13:18] <petti> not the prettiest

L1243[16:13:33] <madmerlyn> there's the SRB separation

L1244[16:13:56] <madmerlyn> I'm guessing there are no cameras on the rocket

L1245[16:14:05] <Neal> lol

L1246[16:14:05] <madmerlyn> or none that they want to show the public

L1247[16:14:12] <Neal> its a NROL launch

L1248[16:14:19] <madmerlyn> Zuma launch had cameras

L1249[16:14:24] <Neal> onboard?

L1250[16:14:26] <madmerlyn> just don't point them at the payload

L1251[16:14:30] <madmerlyn> yes I believe so

L1252[16:14:33] <Neal> interesting

L1253[16:14:48] <madmerlyn> they streamed the first stage the entire time

L1254[16:15:02] <madmerlyn> got to watch it all the way to landing

L1255[16:15:12] <Neal> man I wish this launch was 3 hours in the future, the ascent profile looks like it would make a nice cloud visible from the west coast

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L1257[16:15:31] <madmerlyn> if they had launched last night it would've been in the evening

L1258[16:16:00] <nick1> Merlyn, as a paranoid persistent file editor... do i overwrite the save file when i've done it and then just reload the quicksave in KSP? also, do i need to restart ksp or just load that save again?

L1259[16:16:01] <Neal> woulda had more los angeles people stopping on the freeway thinking it was aliens lol

L1260[16:16:18] <madmerlyn> exit all the way to the main menu

L1261[16:16:32] <madmerlyn> or if you're editing a quicksave, just reload the quicksave

L1262[16:17:03] <Neal> if you're messing with the persistent file, the main menu is enough. you just won't want the game autosaving as you're saving your editor.

L1263[16:17:49] <nick1> great thanks

L1264[16:17:54] <nick1> i'm deleting the crew

L1265[16:18:05] <nick1> then going to astrnaut complex

L1266[16:18:12] <madmerlyn> don't forget to change them all to state = Available in the Roster section of the save file

L1267[16:18:13] <nick1> crap forgot where to put them?

L1268[16:18:21] <nick1> roster

L1269[16:18:40] <nick1> is there many rosters? i#m using the control+F function to find next

L1270[16:18:54] <madmerlyn> 1 roster, will have the kerbals all underneath it

L1271[16:19:02] <madmerlyn> you'll have to touch each kerbal that was in the ship specifically

L1272[16:20:09] <Neal> I rewatched the launch and it looks like the excess hydrogen wasn't burned until the engines started

L1273[16:20:20] <Neal> hence the fireball

L1274[16:20:31] <madmerlyn> the entire core was scorched by it

L1275[16:20:34] <madmerlyn> thing was black going up

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L1277[16:21:05] <Neal> yeah the orange insulation was also burned

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L1279[16:21:14] <Neal> like on fire not just melted

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L1281[16:21:47] <madmerlyn> I bet even if the launch is nominal some investigation happens around that

L1282[16:21:51] <nick1> also a little side note... i can't express how much i love rick and morty

L1283[16:21:52] <madmerlyn> that did not look normal

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L1286[16:22:40] <Neal> my guess is the "rofie" (???)s didn't ignite

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L1288[16:23:03] <Neal> announcer said they were like sparklers to burn the excess fuel at around T-4min

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L1291[16:23:37] <madmerlyn> lol they didn't burn enough of it then, that seriously could've been disasterous

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L1293[16:27:55] <nick1> in the Roster they are 'Assigned' which i'm changing to 'Available' i'm assuming this is correct?

L1294[16:28:04] <madmerlyn> so apparently that happens with the Delta IVs a lot, but they don't like it being severe like that

L1295[16:28:08] <madmerlyn> yes nick1

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L1297[16:28:18] <nick1> thanks

L1298[16:29:01] <madmerlyn> I'm looking at images of multiple delta launches and they're very rarely not charred on liftoff lol

L1299[16:29:19] <madmerlyn> https://i.stack.imgur.com/hC6Ow.jpg

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L1302[16:30:28] <madmerlyn> that just seems like an insane design "yeah, so the rocket catches on fire 80% of the time, we just let the draft put it out"

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L1305[16:31:12] <nick1> ok done. sorry to be annoying but before i hit save is there anything i must do?

L1306[16:31:30] <madmerlyn> if you backed it up first just save it and find out

L1307[16:31:41] <nick1> amazing

L1308[16:31:58] <nick1> (Also brought back good ol' Jeb :P Cheeky!

L1309[16:32:12] <nick1> think i lost him to my Rookie days haha

L1310[16:33:17] <madmerlyn> I think today's launch charred as bad as that image I just posted

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L1312[16:33:26] <madmerlyn> which is some of the worst charring they've had heh

L1313[16:33:59] <madmerlyn> here are several other launches, the 2004 demo flight looks like it cooked a bit on liftoff too http://planetary.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/images/spacecraft/2014/20141120_d4h-montage_f537.jpg

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L1315[16:45:57] <nick1> well crap, the game crashed when i tried to load save. oh dear, will load it up again and see what happens

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L1318[16:58:05] <ve2dmn> I don't know if you guys care but the Megaman Relay race is soon: https://gamesdonequick.com/

L1319[16:58:21] <ve2dmn> Plus they are pretty close to the magic 1 million dollar

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L1323[17:53:53] <madmerlyn> let the weekending begin

L1324[17:54:24] <Flub_ugh> yeah

L1325[17:54:32] <Flub_ugh> I hope my friend will have some time to fly

L1326[17:54:37] <Flub_ugh> I want to do combat

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L1328[17:55:05] <nick1> thanks i got the kerbals back home

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L1331[17:57:11] <madmerlyn> does OPM work with 1.3.1?

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L1340[18:11:19] <madmerlyn> according to the guy who makes AVP it does

L1341[18:11:20] <madmerlyn> yay

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L1343[18:35:57] <nick1> Ok so after getting my kerbals back, my mission is now complete ... this is a mistake, i have not yet set foot on Moho, but my mission to land a rover there has been marked as done? how can i undo this to make mission active again?

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L1346[18:59:35] <nick1> i have a mission that's bugged and completed before i actually have. i want to re-open it. i have found it in the persistent file. does anyone know what i'm supposed to change?

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L1350[19:15:39] <Draconiator> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYS7UIUM_SQ

L1351[19:15:39] <kmath> YouTube - Scientists Put the Brain of a Worm Into a Robot… and It MOVED

L1352[19:15:57] <Flub_ugh> now make a robot play ksp

L1353[19:18:44] <JCB> mmm... I seem to recall they did an autopilot sorta thing with rat brain cells..

L1354[19:19:25] <JCB> makes me wonder how easy it is to do interfaces between organics and electronics

L1355[19:19:42] <Flub_ugh> synths when

L1356[19:19:51] <Flub_ugh> also I want a computer in my brain

L1357[19:20:12] <Flub_ugh> this way I can switch on autopilot and do stuff im supposed to do without having to think about it

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L1359[19:21:32] <JCB> ghost in the shell sorta does something similar... you could also talk to people mentally over long distances...

L1360[19:21:47] <JCB> mind you, people were also able to 'hack' brains at the same time so....

L1361[19:22:16] <Flub2> I guess with brain computer you can get brain data encription

L1362[19:22:36] <Flub2> using like chemicals and crap

L1363[19:22:48] <Flub2> so peoples have to guess you you feel and what you ate to hack you

L1364[19:23:40] <Flub2> but you know transhumanism sounds good to me

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L1366[19:26:58] <Draconiator> I think this is my 4th wind with KSP...I usually have a flurry of building and then don't touch it for months.

L1367[19:27:09] <JCB> not so sure on computer inplants myself... I'm a bit more towrds self expressionisim

L1368[19:27:36] <Flub2> well I would like to have bionic hands with a bunch of tools inside

L1369[19:27:51] <Flub2> or stuff like that

L1370[19:30:20] <JCB> heh.. going the more utilitarian route..

L1371[19:30:33] <Flub2> I like to build and tinker with stuff

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L1373[19:31:51] <JCB> right now.. my mood been all over the place, or no where since new years. Keep wanting to lay down, with the little fuzz butt a lot of times..

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L1375[19:37:11] <Draconiator> https://i.gyazo.com/6895cce2a8e8d06b48d9532d21aca4eb.png - There's what I'm calling the K-14, really wish there was a way to make stock swing wings...

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L1377[19:37:37] <madmerlyn> second launch of my new career, sounding rocket with all .625m parts went to high orbital altitude :D

L1378[19:38:05] <madmerlyn> didn't make orbit, has no solar panels was dead for the entire trip shortly after I got my thermometer and barometer readings from space heh

L1379[19:38:38] <JCB> wouldn't mind just making use of the smaller parts..

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L1382[19:39:08] <JCB> I've visited churchill up north where they used to launch sounding rockets from. Most of it was to do research into the norhtern light effects

L1383[19:39:54] <madmerlyn> I used slightly rotated fins to spin stabilize it on the way up

L1384[19:40:09] <madmerlyn> didn't have to do anything except stage the engines as they died

L1385[19:41:14] <madmerlyn> only cost me 3751 spesos too, since all the sounding rocket parts are so cheap

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L1387[19:42:26] <JCB> spesos... that the offical ingame currency?

L1388[19:48:22] <Kabouik_> Hey, anyone knows if there are any plans to release CKAN as a snap? My distribution is not deb-based, but supports snaps.

L1389[19:49:55] <JCB> not even sure what a 'snap' is..

L1390[19:50:31] <Kabouik_> In short, it's intended as a distribution-agnostic Linux application. I'll ask on their github.

L1391[19:51:42] <madmerlyn> snap is just another form of package, not quite an application per se

L1392[19:52:07] <madmerlyn> more likely that whomever makes the snaps could package CKAN for you

L1393[19:52:19] <madmerlyn> CKAN is in AUR even though archlinux doesn't do debs either

L1394[19:52:33] <Kabouik_> Yes I should have said package, but the important part is it is *supposed* to work across all distributions with snap support

L1395[19:52:35] <Draconiator> lol, wanted to see how high my biplane can go, thing got to 7.1k before running out of fuel

L1396[19:53:14] <madmerlyn> I'm still not quite sure what that means, you can use any package manager on any distribution, even aptitude (debs)

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L1398[19:54:08] <Kabouik_> AUR is kinda big, with a very active and tech-friendly community. It's good that they have CKAN in their repos, but I'm not sure it's a standard that can be expected for several distros. Snaps, on the other hand, are getting fully supported by many distributions now, including widespread ones (Ubuntu, Solus for instance)

L1399[19:54:36] <Kabouik_> I cannot use debs, I cannot use aptitude either

L1400[19:55:21] <madmerlyn> AUR is a repo, pacman is the equivalent of "snap", and debs = aptitude, which you can install and use, it's just probably not well supported with your distro as far as repositories go

L1401[19:55:34] <madmerlyn> what distro are you using?

L1402[19:56:50] <Kabouik_> As a application maintainer, if you provide a snap, then your snap is compatible with several distribution that normally use different packaging systems. If you provide regular packages, you have to do that for several types of packages. It's just more work and less coverage (as long as snaps are supported, but they are gaining a lot of popularity now)

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L1404[19:57:17] <madmerlyn> snap just sounds like another package, I don't see how that's different than dropping a tarball

L1405[19:57:43] <Kabouik_> Hum, as far as I understand it, pacman is not the equivalent of snaps, nor is aptitude. They are no designed to be agnostic, snaps are, plus the confinement feature

L1406[19:58:33] <madmerlyn> I'm looking at snap now, it's not really a desirable method of distributing ALL your packages

L1407[19:58:42] <Kabouik_> Well, you package one thing that eventually works on different distributions, instead of packaging for different distributions and their specificities (like their base package system)

L1408[19:58:52] <madmerlyn> also, snaps would be a total nightmare if your kernel is patched for Meltdown

L1409[19:59:09] <madmerlyn> it's a squashFS jail that has the app inside it

L1410[19:59:40] <madmerlyn> which means everything the snapped app does is going to be in userspace and have to be verified on the backend in Meltdown patched kernels

L1411[19:59:40] <Kabouik_> I disagree :/

L1412[20:00:40] <madmerlyn> snap is more like docker than anything else. You don't install every single app your OS needs in docker, at least most people don't

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L1414[20:01:26] <Kabouik_> But that is not the point, no, snapd is not intended as a replacement for everything. Quite the opposite, it's intended as a bridge between distributions that are built on different foundations

L1415[20:01:50] <madmerlyn> I'm looking at it right now, I see what its intended as

L1416[20:01:58] <madmerlyn> it's for encapsulation, much like docker

L1417[20:02:07] <madmerlyn> which will not play well with Meltdown patched kernels as I said

L1418[20:02:22] <madmerlyn> there's a reason so many web services have been performing poorly this week

L1419[20:02:54] <Kabouik_> And typically, for applications like CKAN that are mainly distributed on github rather than in official repositories, and that are compiled as .exe/.deb/macos/whatever, a snap would make it easier for just every Linux user whose distribution supports snaps (they are increasing in number), since having CKAN in every package system is never going to happen

L1420[20:03:24] <madmerlyn> any way, I don't think CKAN is going to package as a snap, it'll just be the usual source

L1421[20:03:43] <madmerlyn> CKAN is in AUR because someone has written a make script to compile it

L1422[20:05:27] <madmerlyn> and it's not a matter of distros supporting snap, snap is encapsulation and gets installed as an application, which is where your universal idea is coming from

L1423[20:05:44] <Kabouik_> I doubt they will either, but I wish they'd consider it.

L1424[20:05:58] <madmerlyn> snap has a lot of parallels to docker, but I don't think a small squashfs container is really going to dethrone docker

L1425[20:06:06] <Kabouik_> Considering that .deb *is* a solution that covers all Linux users is just wrong

L1426[20:06:31] <madmerlyn> debs are not tarballs, if someone wants to support all linux users they distribute tarballs

L1427[20:06:54] <madmerlyn> repo maintainers then can elect to put those tarballs in, or users can compile themselves

L1428[20:07:10] <Kabouik_> Or snaps for the compatibility + auto-update features

L1429[20:07:30] <madmerlyn> compatibility? if you compile it's already compatible

L1430[20:07:46] <madmerlyn> and most people prefer to get their apps from their repos

L1431[20:07:51] <Kabouik_> But, that is a big if, and it depends on third party

L1432[20:07:52] <madmerlyn> if they're not keen on compiling

L1433[20:08:14] <madmerlyn> eh whatever, believe what you want

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L1435[20:08:39] <Kabouik_> I'm not fighting, don't get me wrong

L1436[20:09:09] <madmerlyn> you're also not really acknowledging that apps are already universal if they're in the FOSS space

L1437[20:09:13] <Kabouik_> But the premises of your disbelief are not all correct, as a Solus user I can install snaps from my native/default application manager

L1438[20:09:29] <madmerlyn> as a Solus user you could install tarballs too

L1439[20:09:41] <madmerlyn> without having to encapsulate in a squashfs container

L1440[20:10:02] <Kabouik_> But they don't auto-update.

L1441[20:10:26] <madmerlyn> snaps aren't going to autoupdate unless they are running a daemon on your machine

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L1444[20:10:53] <Kabouik_> I mean, just because there are ways to run CKAN doesn't mean that I cannot question about snapd, there is a reason why they are getting supported by big distributions. And I can acknowledge that applications are already universal in some way if in the FOSS space, that was just not my point.

L1445[20:10:53] <Oneiros> sup Mod9000

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L1447[20:11:54] <madmerlyn> snap is no different than aptitude in the respect you're talking about it though, just another form of packaging to support, only instead of targeting a specific distro it's targeting a smaller subset of users who actually want snap on their system

L1448[20:12:07] <madmerlyn> FOSS maintainers are more likely to package something like that in docker

L1449[20:12:13] <Kabouik_> I don't know what is the plan for Ubuntu, but for my distribution the plan is to have snaps alongside the eopkg from the repos all available from the software manager, updates will be transparent to the user

L1450[20:12:15] <madmerlyn> if they're going to go through the trouble

L1451[20:15:08] <Kabouik_> I don't know, .deb is Ubuntu variants and Linux Mint, and they support snaps. So if you support snaps because you want to cover these people + others, I suppose you can provide snaps instead and I'm not sure you would face riots

L1452[20:15:33] <Kabouik_> But anyway, I was just asking, I totally understand that it's not an obvious answer or decision and I agree that you raised valid points

L1453[20:15:40] <madmerlyn> .deb is aptitude which is the package manager debian variants tend to use yes

L1454[20:15:44] <Kabouik_> I just want to know if they have plans for it, never know.

L1455[20:16:16] <Kabouik_> Sorry yes, forgot about Debian for some [reason], which is quite stupid indeed. :D

L1456[20:17:18] <madmerlyn> you have to remember there are a lot of Linux users out there who do not use "newbie friendly" distributions, and I'd wager they make up the bulk of Linux users

L1457[20:17:44] <madmerlyn> I don't even have a software manager, I just have pacman, I compile everything not available on the official repo from source

L1458[20:18:22] <madmerlyn> and docker is king when it comes to encapsulated applications

L1459[20:19:16] <Kabouik_> To be honest I do not have a good knowledge of docker, thought it was primarily intended for servers

L1460[20:20:19] <madmerlyn> but back to my earlier point, with the recent Meltdown situation, anything running in encapsulation is going to perform poorly compared to what it would have 2 weeks ago

L1461[20:20:39] <madmerlyn> because the kernel patches they put out to address the vulnerability substantially increase the overhead on userspace applications

L1462[20:20:43] <Iskierka> *Spectre would be more relevant to mention

L1463[20:20:51] <Iskierka> as it's why it will perform poorly on ANYTHING

L1464[20:20:53] <madmerlyn> Meltdown/Spectre

L1465[20:21:12] <madmerlyn> one is fixable, the other is just detectable, but you are correct

L1466[20:21:48] <Iskierka> the fix for meltdown is also extremely important mitigation for spectre, which is why everything is going to be slow

L1467[20:21:58] <Iskierka> (since the only things unaffected are those that were slow to begin with)

L1468[20:23:35] <madmerlyn> seems like encapsulating apps in squashfs would be more memory intensive too, doesn't squashfs emulate a fixed size filesystem?

L1469[20:24:15] <madmerlyn> I know that's how bootloaders like grub mount floppy and CD images to boot off of USB drives etc.

L1470[20:27:20] <Kabouik_> Actually I just found that somewhere in the CKAN wiki: You don't have to worry about platforms: CKAN is built using Mono, so it will work the same on Windows, Mac or Linux. Even though it's a .exe file, it will still work, thanks to Mono!

L1471[20:29:22] <Kabouik_> So the .deb file might just be a nice envelope to run "mono ckan.exe" :<

L1472[20:30:32] <Azander> except it doesn't run the same on all platforms

L1473[20:36:20] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn I'm testing your basic launch script now :P

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L1481[20:57:31] *** mkv is now known as m4v

L1482[21:01:30] <madmerlyn> where's mp4?

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L1486[21:11:16] <Kabouik-> Oh noes, the spam bots are back.

L1487[21:11:21] <Kabouik-> Take shelter.

L1488[21:11:29] <madmerlyn> WHAT?

L1489[21:11:37] <madmerlyn> sorry, caps was on from precision mode

L1490[21:12:01] <Kabouik-> You haven't seen these spam bots in the last few weeks? They've been on several of my chans, really annoying

L1491[21:16:21] <Rolf> the racist ones? freenode have been fighting those for while

L1492[21:16:38] <Rolf> they are getting much faster on k0lining the attackers though

L1493[21:16:55] <Kabouik-> Yeah Rolf

L1494[21:17:31] <Rolf> never seen any on esper but then this is only major channel im in.

L1495[21:18:29] <Kabouik-> Oh, I thought I did but maybe I mixed it with another server as I'm pretty sure it was not only on freenode for me

L1496[21:18:35] <Kabouik-> But maybe not here, you might be right

L1497[21:19:07] <Zarthus> if they're here then you're reporting them in the wrong channel :P

L1498[21:19:09] <Kabouik-> Anyway they indeed seem to spread much less than earlier, they've be wiped from where I saw them a few min ago and I haven't seen others yet

L1499[21:19:38] *** AASRaptor is now known as UmbralRaptor

L1500[21:32:33] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: did the scrip work?

L1501[21:32:51] <ve2dmn> I was in front of the TV watching a Megaman relay race live

L1502[21:32:54] <madmerlyn> eh.. at my extremely early point in the tree, mostly? :P

L1503[21:33:15] <madmerlyn> I'm still doing mostly sounding rockets, don't even have an SAS probe for manual maneuvers after the script ends heh

L1504[21:33:38] <ve2dmn> new career?

L1505[21:33:46] <madmerlyn> yep, doing OPM

L1506[21:34:16] <madmerlyn> except since I'm doing CTT and installed the JX2 antenna I took the science modifier and antenna patches out of OPM

L1507[21:34:25] <ve2dmn> yeah, I never got to Eeloo, so OPM is not in my priorities

L1508[21:34:29] <madmerlyn> OPM apparently nerfs the crap out of science in the inner system heh

L1509[21:34:47] <ve2dmn> Do you have Scansat?

L1510[21:35:12] <madmerlyn> no but I might install it before I get anything in space

L1511[21:35:22] <madmerlyn> so far I've only done a couple suborbital hops

L1512[21:35:40] <ve2dmn> btw, my own rendez-vous script is nearly finished... except for the final docking part

L1513[21:36:13] <madmerlyn> your launch4 script, doesn't seem to be getting me very much horizontal velocity before it terminates

L1514[21:36:14] <ve2dmn> I like the Scansat Biome and elevation maps (Along with the few contracts it gives)

L1515[21:36:33] <ve2dmn> ...that script is getting old at this point :D

L1516[21:36:51] <ve2dmn> The file date says 2016

L1517[21:37:18] <ve2dmn> I should just erase it, since I don't use it

L1518[21:37:32] <madmerlyn> oh I see your launchwithparameters script now

L1519[21:38:37] <ve2dmn> it uses a simple formula to set the pitch

L1520[21:39:01] <ve2dmn> I sugest you tweak it to your liking

L1521[21:40:36] <ve2dmn> I used 2 formulas, one based on speed and the other n altitude

L1522[21:40:39] <madmerlyn> did you see the ULA launch today btw?

L1523[21:40:52] <madmerlyn> that rocket was on fire :P

L1524[21:41:21] <ve2dmn> no, I was watching agdq most of the day

L1525[21:41:58] <madmerlyn> apparently the Delta IVs are famous for setting themselves on fire, but this one was pretty bad

L1526[21:42:09] <madmerlyn> it was super charred by the time it got off the pad heh

L1527[21:42:45] <ve2dmn> what, the paint caught fire?

L1528[21:43:04] <madmerlyn> the whole rocket practically up to the fairing was charred, yeah

L1529[21:43:48] <ve2dmn> pic? vid?

L1530[21:43:50] <madmerlyn> I looked up pictures and apparently that's normal, though it's usually much less severe

L1531[21:45:13] <madmerlyn> https://youtu.be/NwLWNXHL7D4?t=69

L1532[21:45:13] <kmath> YouTube - Delta IV NROL-47 Launch Highlights

L1533[21:45:18] <ve2dmn> btw, you made me look at my script and I probably need to chnage the formulas

L1534[21:46:39] <madmerlyn> that video is way better than the stream was too

L1535[21:46:50] <madmerlyn> stream it was just a dot in the sky 90% of the time

L1536[21:53:29] <ve2dmn> well... my rendez-vous script v0.1 is done.

L1537[21:54:03] <ve2dmn> What I should do is change all my script to add a lot of comments everywhere and make everything more clean...

L1538[21:54:16] <ve2dmn> ...and then use 'compile' in the boot scripts

L1539[21:56:20] <ve2dmn> Then I can start working on a docking script

L1540[21:58:17] <JCB> anyone familiar with M=1?

L1541[22:06:09] <JCB> I'm going to wager a 'no'... c_C

L1542[22:11:10] <ve2dmn> JCB: ?

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L1549[22:33:00] <JCB> ve2dmn M=1 is what they called when gemini launched to directly meet with the docking target prior to completion of a single orbit

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L1557[23:01:34] <Draconiator> Took a bit to get this huge thing to fly. https://gyazo.com/858e0b85bc94886fa8281e8d48bbf5c5 Still not done, takeoff weight is 208 tons

L1558[23:02:51] <JCB> what was causing problems.. just weight alone?

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L1560[23:04:45] <cringe> ISS Urine Tank Level: 54%

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L1562[23:06:31] <oren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QwAp19xZDE <-- TMR looking great!

L1563[23:06:31] <kmath> YouTube - 173/714 Top Gun - NESMania

L1564[23:06:37] <Draconiator> Yeah

L1565[23:06:50] <Draconiator> specifically thrust.

L1566[23:07:17] <oren> Draconiator: now make it fly to space

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L1568[23:08:36] <Draconiator> Heh

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L1570[23:10:56] <Draconiator> And now apparently I have a whole other issue. Not destroying the runway on takeoff.

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