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L17[01:20:32] <Althego> hehe wolfie6020 video. camera drone controller is in a yellow box, labelled: nasa field kit 47x agent 47 wolfie
L18[01:20:56] <Althego> controller has poerty of nasa label
L19[01:20:58] <Althego> lol
L20[01:21:21] <Althego> it talks lol
L21[01:21:41] <Althego> flat earth debunking mode off :)
L22[01:22:30] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbJ65yriCSU
L23[01:22:30] <kmath> YouTube - Flat Earth - bits and pieces & Happy New Year to all.
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L26[01:32:43] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9cW34Aafg
L27[01:32:43] <kmath> YouTube - Spaghetti in a sweater
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L37[03:33:01] <taniwha> f
L38[03:33:08] <taniwha> Althego: flying monster in a sweater?
L39[03:39:42] <Althego> no, the name of the sake is spaghetti
L40[03:47:36] <petti> Wow, I just found Stratzenblitz75 from the youtubes... brilliantness.
L41[03:50:29] <Althego> i remember his island monorail
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L43[03:53:21] <petti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee59XkEufjA this pretty much blew my mind to bits
L44[03:53:22] <kmath> YouTube - KSP - Duna and back using ONLY electric power and Xenon!
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L46[04:04:29] <Althego> yes that has been in youtube recommendation for months now
L47[04:04:47] <Althego> ok, around 1.5 month
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L56[05:50:06] <Althego> hah found new anti flat earther on youtube
L57[05:51:41] <legion> lol. go get him!
L58[05:51:55] <legion> or her. or it. or them.
L59[05:52:08] <Althego> whatever get means in current context
L60[05:52:15] <Althego> must be the most overloaded english word
L61[05:52:27] <Althego> or maybe do
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L67[06:41:55] <nick1> hello guys
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L69[06:45:41] <nick1> i'll post a screenshot of an issue i'm getting and don't know how to fix
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L71[06:55:11] <Althego> just wait until somebody replies
L72[06:55:29] <Althego> i mean dont quit becqause you dont get an anser in 5 seconds
L73[07:01:08] <nick1> https://redd.it/7n8bfs
L74[07:01:23] <nick1> sorry, had to do screenshot upload to reddit etc
L75[07:01:38] <nick1> this is my image and problem. cannot overcome it so far
L76[07:02:54] <Althego> roverdude used to hang out here
L77[07:05:23] <nick1> oh cool shame i never got to meet him
L78[07:05:46] <Althego> there is a modders channel
L79[07:06:07] <taniwha> #kspmodding
L80[07:06:21] <nick1> all the posts relating to Karibou rover seem to stop at 2015 yikes, it might be a mod that doesn't get worked on anymore
L81[07:06:28] <nick1> oh thanks i'll check that out
L82[07:06:31] <Althego> might be there. but considering it is last day of the year probably not well populated
L83[07:06:42] <nick1> yeah
L84[07:06:55] <taniwha> karibou? MKS? roverdude hasn't been seen outside the forums for some time
L85[07:11:01] <Oneiros> i thought he started working for squad
L86[07:11:13] <Oneiros> but that was a long time ago maybe
L87[07:11:29] <taniwha> he did, a few years back
L88[07:12:00] <Althego> back when taniwha did too
L89[07:12:07] <taniwha> but since the mass exodus of last year, he's been a lot less frequent on IRC
L90[07:12:24] <Oneiros> ah yep, i havent been around in 2 years so that sounds about right
L91[07:12:24] <taniwha> (I was part of the exodus, he was not)
L92[07:12:56] <taniwha> Oneiros: in that case, you would have missed me being part of squad, too
L93[07:13:23] <Oneiros> oh. it sounds like some drama happened or something. i wrote "kerbalstuff" on a forum post and it got censored lol
L94[07:13:30] <nick1> the latest rover i can find is from 2016 so i think i cannot use the Karibou's anymore. - hurts inside
L95[07:13:37] <Oneiros> oh thats cool
L96[07:16:57] <Oneiros> you guys did some great work with this game
L97[07:17:04] <taniwha> nick1: that's odd, his last post is friday so maybe your search is off
L98[07:17:21] <taniwha> https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/154587-13-modular-kolonization-system-mks/&do=findComment&comment=3255236
L99[07:21:54] <nick1> good to see he is still about. thanks for that
L100[07:22:44] <Oneiros> i came across a lot of stuff in the agencies .cfg that showed some thinking along strategic lines
L101[07:23:03] <Oneiros> like rival/competing agencies or something like that. not sure how old it is though
L102[07:24:44] <nick1> do you know how i can message him directly on Reddit?
L103[07:24:57] <nick1> i mean ksp forums sorry
L104[07:25:06] <taniwha> should be able to
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L106[07:29:45] <Draconiator> Heh, just found out I can stream games from my desktop onto my netbook using Steam
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L108[07:42:04] <Oneiros> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_Carrier_Aircraft#/media/File:Shuttle_mounting_point.JPG
L109[07:44:03] <Althego> old
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L121[08:33:01] <Blaank> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Pathfinder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Inspiration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_America
L122[08:33:31] <Blaank> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Shuttle_Carrier_Aircraft_interior_bulkhead.jpg
L123[08:34:00] <Althego> lol spider
L124[08:34:10] <Blaank> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Shuttle_Carrier_Aircraft_passenger_section.jpg
L125[08:34:31] <Blaank> I've never been inside a 747 and probably never will be.
L126[08:35:02] <Althego> airbus is more common here
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L129[09:29:43] <Althego> joke for old people https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26001429_1429335257172897_8116616398295602160_n.jpg?oh=61c63f33b3257854639c63ed469404c7&oe=5AB7F5A7
L130[09:31:35] <petti> old people.. DOS is still in use
L131[09:33:02] <Althego> most young people wouldnt know what autoexec.bat is. just as they havent seen a floppy drive, or dont know what the relationship between casettes and pencils
L132[09:33:07] <Althego> is
L133[09:33:49] <TheKosmonaut> Althego: floppy drive? You mean the save button in Word?
L134[09:35:32] <Althego> that is a floppy disk
L135[09:35:46] <Althego> they might have seen that just as part of computer history
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L141[09:59:30] <petti> yeah, I remember seeing somewhere a floppy disk being shown to a youngster and he said wow, someone 3D-printed a physical version of the save icon :-)
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L143[10:05:19] <legion> that joke is as old as the first 3d printer...
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L147[10:21:07] <petti> well I still chuckled the first time I saw it
L148[10:21:14] <petti> OK I'm OLD! :D
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L150[10:30:28] <Althego> i saw running computer older than me, designed in the 60s
L151[10:31:04] <Alanonzander> I've used one older than me.
L152[10:31:14] <Alanonzander> punch cards and all
L153[10:31:20] <Althego> now that is really rare
L154[10:31:34] <Althego> was it run for fun?
L155[10:31:49] <Alanonzander> nope, part of my computer science major
L156[10:31:58] <Althego> mine was in actually running company code
L157[10:32:13] <Oneiros> LOL
L158[10:32:24] <Oneiros> 3D printed the save icon. thats a good one
L159[10:32:44] <Althego> remember the floppy desk?
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L161[10:33:13] <Alanonzander> project was to write a fortran program, to extract data from a file (format specified) and output a report based on 7 fields of that data. We had 1K of ram to work in, so code had to be optimised.
L162[10:33:15] <petti> Our school only had 086 machines when I was a wee kid.
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L164[10:33:27] <Althego> https://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/floppy-disk-table/
L165[10:33:28] <petti> The teacher had a 286
L166[10:33:54] <Alanonzander> 8", 5.25", and 3.5" floppies. Still have some of them in storage.
L167[10:34:31] <Alanonzander> Still have the punch cards somehwere too
L168[10:34:54] <petti> I only have 5.25 ones in my C64, 3.5 ones in my Amiga and Atari, 8" was before my time.
L169[10:36:02] <Alanonzander> had a "mini" computer in high school that had dual 8" floppies. My Senior year we finaly received a hard drive. all 10 Meg of it.
L170[10:36:40] <Althego> hehehe
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L172[10:37:52] <Alanonzander> Match/computer teacher was the brother of the electronics teacher. They both likes building electronic things, and the SWTPC Mini computer was hand built from a kits, had 6 trerminals, the hard drive and dual floppies in 1986
L173[10:37:57] <Alanonzander> *Math
L174[10:38:38] <Alanonzander> Each 'card' had to be hand made at the time. Even the processor was on a card.
L175[10:38:54] <Althego> that is cool
L176[10:39:12] <Alanonzander> Unix System 5
L177[10:39:29] <Althego> and system 5 ssysems are still runnin
L178[10:39:36] <Alanonzander> yep
L179[10:39:50] <Althego> saw several aix and powermaxos. aix is way better
L180[10:39:54] <Alanonzander> Teacher even had teh System 4 Disks, but had upgraded to teh System5
L181[10:40:06] <petti> yep, system 5 is from the 70s alright.
L182[10:40:36] <Alanonzander> Even had a 1200Baud modem on it
L183[10:40:40] <petti> some banks and airlines still might run mainframes from those times I think
L184[10:40:53] <petti> programmed in COBOL or whatever
L185[10:41:13] * Alanonzander knows COBoL, hate it.
L186[10:41:37] <Althego> hehe i managed to avoid that
L187[10:41:55] <Althego> but i still consider myself ok in fortran :)
L188[10:42:05] <Alanonzander> I find Fortran 'fun'
L189[10:42:12] <Alanonzander> I prefer C++ though
L190[10:42:16] <petti> we mostly use fortran at work
L191[10:42:20] <Althego> modern fortran is not so bad
L192[10:42:22] <petti> well for what I do at least
L193[10:42:39] <Alanonzander> I passed Assembler, but I doubt I could programm in it any more.
L194[10:42:43] <petti> some of the 80s stuff there is written in OLD syntax..
L195[10:43:04] <Althego> i saw code older than that, and using special dialects
L196[10:43:16] <Alanonzander> Does the modern fortran still require your code to be in specific columns ?
L197[10:43:22] <Althego> not anymore
L198[10:43:38] <Althego> but it is the default :)
L199[10:43:41] <Alanonzander> Then I think I'll prefer the older verion of Fortran :)
L200[10:43:51] <petti> well still if it was done in '77 the company had extensions and their precompiler so it's not that bad
L201[10:46:04] <Alanonzander> my favorite story about cobol was a project in class I had. It wouldn't compile. I couldn't fiure out why. So I asked the professor. He couldn't figure it out either. One day I was in the computer room going over my code and the director of Computing Operations walked by and heard me cussing out the compiler . He askedwhy and I explained to him that for the past 2 months I was trying
L202[10:46:04] <Alanonzander> to figure out why this code wouldnt' even compile.
L203[10:46:33] <Alanonzander> He asked for the printout, spent 5 minutes looking at it, then came back to me and told me that I wil missing the entire decleration section.
L204[10:47:04] <Alanonzander> once that was added... it compiled, and ran perfectly.
L205[10:47:23] <petti> often you just need a second pair of eyes looking at it in a different way
L206[10:47:33] <Alanonzander> Nobody in class, not even the profession had caught that.
L207[10:47:39] <Alanonzander> *professor
L208[10:50:24] <Alanonzander> What that entire situation taught me was to start withthe simple, then work towards the complex, and don't belive the compiler's error message.
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L210[10:53:25] <petti> and if someone gives you something "really difficult" to look at, check the basics first.
L211[10:53:33] <Alanonzander> right
L212[10:53:40] <Alanonzander> works well in general tech support too
L213[10:53:48] <petti> it only takes a minute and often the darn plug just was not in the wall after all.
L214[10:54:14] <Alanonzander> many a customer had "no dialtone" issues because somone had knocked the phonecord out of the wall when doing housekeeping.
L215[10:54:32] <Alanonzander> DSL has similar issues
L216[10:55:33] <Alanonzander> you don't see that much with cable.. but it does happen from time to time.
L217[10:55:57] <petti> I even called the techs once because my cable modem was out
L218[10:56:09] <petti> then i just redid the connections to the TV plug and... well it worked.
L219[10:56:17] <petti> I hadn't even moved anything
L220[10:57:34] <Alanonzander> yep
L221[10:58:17] <Alanonzander> Website not working? Check domain registration, DNS servers, webserver, web-site code, in that order.
L222[10:58:40] <Alanonzander> Of course this is after establishing that the customer even has full internet access
L223[11:00:24] <bees> and customer even has electricity
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L225[11:07:30] <Alanonzander> haven't had that one yet
L226[11:08:08] <Alanonzander> did have one call, and just as I picked up had a power outage (they said they would call back when the power returned)
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L242[13:10:43] <UmbralRaptor> Event Horizon Telescope continues: https://www.nature.com/news/how-to-hunt-for-a-black-hole-with-a-telescope-the-size-of-earth-1.21693
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L248[14:06:13] <ve2dmn> greetings
L249[14:06:43] <madmerlyn> greetings
L250[14:06:45] <ve2dmn> welcome to 2017.999999999
L251[14:08:02] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: got a new version of your code I could check? I'm almost ready to go into spaceplanes
L252[14:08:12] <madmerlyn> maybe in a bit
L253[14:08:13] <madmerlyn> just got online
L254[14:08:26] <Althego> remember kids, if you go into spaceplanes, sit down and fasten your seatbelts :)
L255[14:08:32] <madmerlyn> I did figure out a proper trigger for the landing gear to put in the main loop though
L256[14:08:45] <ve2dmn> (need to optimise the tourism+ voyages to the soon-to-be-built space hotel)
L257[14:08:54] <ve2dmn> I still need a name for that hotel
L258[14:09:03] <madmerlyn> just did `if(ALT:RADAR>25{ GEAR OFF. } else { GEAR ON.}
L259[14:09:10] <ve2dmn> Maybe 'Super 80000'
L260[14:09:25] <madmerlyn> so it should retract gear when airborne, although I think waiting until 25m up is maybe too late for slow landing gear to deploy, heh
L261[14:09:41] <madmerlyn> so I might have to put a variable in there to switch on and off
L262[14:09:57] <ve2dmn> or 'Orbits Inn'
L263[14:10:22] <madmerlyn> although since this script doesn't do landing maybe I'll just not worry about it
L264[14:10:31] <madmerlyn> and write a separate script for when I want to deorbit and land
L265[14:11:02] <ve2dmn> then you should return 'false' at some point in the trigger so it terminates
L266[14:11:08] <Althego> problem: autoland is rough on this aircraft. resolution: autoland not installed
L267[14:11:44] <madmerlyn> well I don't have autoland at all :P
L268[14:11:52] <madmerlyn> not solution, just code separation heh
L269[14:12:37] <madmerlyn> just be a matter of run planeorbit(100000). and then when I want to land run planeland.
L270[14:12:47] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: see this example https://github.com/ve2dmn/kOS-Script/blob/master/LaunchEquator.ks#L24-L32
L271[14:13:32] <madmerlyn> I didn't use a WHEN, I used an IF statement on the main loop
L272[14:14:06] <ve2dmn> A trigger would run parallel to the main loop
L273[14:14:47] <Althego> yes you dont have it, that is why it is rough :)
L274[14:16:30] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn one thing you could change on your launchequator, you could set up a parameter at the top for TargetAltitude
L275[14:16:54] <madmerlyn> so like `parameter TargetAltitude is body:atm:height + 10000.`
L276[14:17:12] <madmerlyn> that way it defaults to body:atm:height+10000, but you could specify a different altitude if you wanted
L277[14:17:40] <madmerlyn> so you could do `run LaunchEquator(100000).` if you wanted to launch to 100k instead of 80k on kerbin
L278[14:18:02] <madmerlyn> but if you just typed `run LaunchEquator.` it would still default to the 80km
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L280[14:18:19] <ve2dmn> I could parameter alos the Equator vs Polar
L281[14:18:39] <madmerlyn> also does the body:atm:height return 0 if it's non-atmospheric?
L282[14:19:19] <ve2dmn> should
L283[14:20:05] <ve2dmn> so yes, that ' -20k might not be a good idea
L284[14:22:03] <ve2dmn> I should maybe use a minimum of 5k
L285[14:23:22] <ve2dmn> And I found out why some of my programs would trigger during a rendez-vous
L286[14:23:53] <ve2dmn> If I had cancel the program in the middle, it would simply try to continue the next time the vessel was loaded
L287[14:24:33] <ve2dmn> 90% of the cancellation I did were before the circularization burn (my main bug)
L288[14:25:37] <madmerlyn> so if I just want a trigger to go off once I just return false on it?
L289[14:25:59] <ve2dmn> So, re-load space Station (to dock) and one of the various kOS CPU on board would trigger and try to circularise my Space Station. a 5m/s burn is not a big issue, but rotating 90 degree was annoying while you're trying to dock
L290[14:26:13] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: pretty much
L291[14:26:34] <madmerlyn> do you have your bootloader executing commands besides copypaths?
L292[14:26:39] <ve2dmn> The old doc had the 'preserve' keyword instead of true
L293[14:26:48] <madmerlyn> my bootloader just grabs the stuff I want to memory, nothing kicks off until I issue a run command
L294[14:26:52] <ve2dmn> not yet, no
L295[14:27:18] <madmerlyn> or are you saying if you ctrl+c a script it resumes on reload?
L296[14:28:14] <ve2dmn> I think so. I'm not 100% sure. In those cases part of the script was bootloaded and started automatically, so it might have starting from 0
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L298[14:31:47] <ve2dmn> I still have to figure out how the whole MKS thing works with 'construction'
L299[14:31:51] <madmerlyn> should I put altitude based triggers in the main loop, or outside of it?
L300[14:32:07] <ve2dmn> outside, but make sure they terminate
L301[14:32:38] <ve2dmn> they use the same background process as the 'lock' mechanism
L302[14:34:29] <ve2dmn> wow... 1 Tourist want to pay 6 million Spaceos to see all the Jool moons
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L304[14:39:56] <Althego> hehe
L305[14:39:58] <Althego> all of them?
L306[14:40:03] <ve2dmn> all
L307[14:40:26] <ve2dmn> Tourism+: Grand tour of Jool
L308[14:40:50] <Althego> for 1 kerbal i could probably make it under 2 million
L309[14:41:08] <ve2dmn> With LifeSupport?
L310[14:41:12] <Althego> stock
L311[14:42:36] <madmerlyn> 2 million for 1 kerbal to all Joolian moons? I guess Tylo and Laythe do drive the bill up
L312[14:43:15] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn https://pastebin.com/zVhhbMnR
L313[14:44:32] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: put line 6 before line 4 ?
L314[14:44:59] <madmerlyn> oh yeah I had done that before but it got flopped back around
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L316[14:46:39] <madmerlyn> testing script now
L317[14:46:55] <ve2dmn> what are AG1 to 9 if you case?
L318[14:47:06] <madmerlyn> AG1 switches modes on rapiers
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L320[14:47:26] <madmerlyn> AG9 is for the SSTOs that have dedicated OM engines, switches all the rapiers off and OMs on
L321[14:47:57] <ve2dmn> I tend to use 2 for science and 0 for 'deploy all solar panels and radiators'
L322[14:48:44] <madmerlyn> ok already found several syntax errors, updating shortly
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L324[14:53:42] <madmerlyn> I updated Lancelot Mk2 to have the docking port on the ventral side instead of dorsal, so docking won't require angling to avoid fins touching things
L325[14:55:33] <madmerlyn> I almost wonder with all the trouble I've had on re-entry with some of my newer designs if simple wingtip stabilizers would help
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L328[15:17:05] <madmerlyn> made some more design changes to my OPT based plane, see if it can land
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L331[15:43:42] <madmerlyn> Arthur made 101k orbit with 38t of payload and 616m/s dv left for maneuvering
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L342[17:18:58] <madmerlyn> I fixed Arthur's re-entry problems, still flatspins a little bit but it's capable of stable flight once you get subsonic
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L344[17:23:50] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn I have a 36 kerbal to orbit spaceplane that seems to be pretty good if you have mk4 and OPT parts
L345[17:24:14] <madmerlyn> getting ready to re-entry test it
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L347[17:42:09] <madmerlyn> it flies well enough :)
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L349[17:59:46] <taniwha> a bit late (it's 9am), but happy new year
L350[18:00:06] <petti> 2 am here :-)
L351[18:00:23] <petti> pretty good call for those londoners I suppose
L352[18:00:47] <taniwha> :)
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L355[18:12:49] <madmerlyn> it's only 6pm here ;)
L356[18:15:32] <petti> the smart ones fly out to new zealand or Tonga and party, fly to hawaii, sleep a bit and party again :-)
L357[18:17:37] <RandomJeb> happy new year
L358[18:17:39] <RandomJeb> 1am here
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L360[18:20:58] * darsie cheated by passing time in the tracking station, not depleting batteries.
L361[18:21:54] <darsie> Had a rocket that was low on battery for a moon orbit rescue mission.
L362[18:24:32] <RandomJeb> are you using some kind of battery draining mods?
L363[18:24:44] <RandomJeb> like a life support thing?
L364[18:33:46] <darsie> No, just a hibernating computer.
L365[18:36:37] <darsie> without solar panels
L366[18:41:31] <RandomJeb> man I suddenly remembered how I used to solve my munar power issues without solar panels, not viable with the modern part limits in careeer though
L367[18:42:08] <RandomJeb> that solution was packing every available surface in those z-100 batteries
L368[18:43:12] <RandomJeb> basically flying battery arrays with a core reminiscent of a spacecraft :P
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L371[19:01:49] <darsie> I was trying to make minimalistic, cheap rescue rockets.
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L373[19:02:39] <darsie> They don't even rescue Kerbals. They just wake them up so they can fly home with their jetpack.
L374[19:03:51] *** XXCoder is now known as Rolf
L375[19:24:05] <madmerlyn> I take a mk3 spaceplane up and rescue the entire craft
L376[19:26:23] *** jeans is now known as jeff
L377[19:26:41] *** jeff is now known as jeans
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L380[19:28:29] <ckindley> Any easy fix for a couple Thud engines that are pointing through a truss (so their thrust is blocked)?
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L382[19:28:43] <ckindley> I thought engineers could detach and reattach those...
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L385[19:36:27] <ckindley> Maybe I figured it out... :D
L386[19:43:33] <ckindley> Got it. Needed to change their attachment from one location to another without trying to pick them up completely (too big)
L387[19:54:38] <ve2dmn> Hello
L388[19:54:41] <Mod9000> Hello, ve2dmn
L389[19:55:02] <ve2dmn> Welcome to 2017.999999999999999999999 + epsilon
L390[19:59:35] <Epsilon> >;o
L391[19:59:41] <madmerlyn> Excalibur SSTO just put a 10,883kg payload in 150km orbit for a cost of 7833 funds :)
L392[20:00:02] <madmerlyn> almost had a disaster landing it though, need to make an adjustment on my landing gear haha
L393[20:00:14] <madmerlyn> gear is attached to cargo bay and slightly clipped for balance with the back gear
L394[20:00:29] <madmerlyn> when I deployed gear got the "cannot deploy while stowed" or whatever message
L395[20:00:36] <madmerlyn> had to open cargobay to get the front gear down
L396[20:02:28] <Epsilon> I wish I knew how to build small. <_<
L397[20:03:10] <Epsilon> I read that and think "... only 10t?"
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L399[20:03:23] <madmerlyn> I need to figure out how to properly re-enter with it
L400[20:03:39] <madmerlyn> if I keep my AoA in the upper 20s degrees I end up gaining altitude from lift, lol
L401[20:04:00] <madmerlyn> and if I push nose too far down to try to lose altitude I end up flat spinning until I get control with engine thrust
L402[20:04:20] <madmerlyn> I'm thinking if I just glide in from further back so the altitude gain doesn't overshoot KSC it might work alright
L403[20:04:41] <Epsilon> I had a lot of weird spins with my SSTO until I added airbrakes to the back.
L404[20:04:58] <madmerlyn> I've got airbrakes and vertical stabilizers on top and bottom
L405[20:05:29] <Epsilon> It's not necessarily a -fix-, but it's enough to keep it going straight 'til it slows down to ~250m/s and/or gets down below about 6km.
L406[20:05:45] <madmerlyn> once I get below 400m/s I have full control
L407[20:06:18] <madmerlyn> it's just a matter of getting down below 20km when I'm still up in the mach 3 range that's making my approach difficult
L408[20:06:40] <Epsilon> I consider myself lucky I have any control at all. ;p
L409[20:07:03] <ve2dmn> Epsilon: same
L410[20:07:14] <ve2dmn> I have a hard time landing any plane from orbit
L411[20:07:33] <Epsilon> I'm okay with some of them, but this one is... excessively heavy.
L412[20:07:37] <madmerlyn> well part of it is design, and part of it is piloting ;)
L413[20:08:06] <madmerlyn> if your AoA is too steep you'll flat spin unless you just have unrealistic control authority from reaction wheels and RCS
L414[20:08:13] <Epsilon> ... hmmmmmmmm
L415[20:08:32] <Epsilon> Oh, no. I'm flat spinning at 0 AoA if I don't have the airbrakes.
L416[20:08:48] <Epsilon> Like... no control input from 90km down to about 6km, or you're b0rk.
L417[20:09:04] <madmerlyn> that sounds like you don't have enough vertical stabilizers
L418[20:09:10] <madmerlyn> what does your tail look like?
L419[20:09:28] <Epsilon> It's a 400% tweakscaled Big-S tailfin.
L420[20:09:32] <Epsilon> <_<
L421[20:09:36] <madmerlyn> oh my
L422[20:09:38] <Epsilon> I came to the same conclusion you did, incidentally.
L423[20:09:59] <madmerlyn> after I get this minmus probe on the way I'll send some screens of my plane's aft
L424[20:10:11] <madmerlyn> minmus probe was launched out of a plane :P
L425[20:10:23] <Epsilon> I'll shjow this one to you shortly. It's just finished loading. ;p
L426[20:10:26] <madmerlyn> it's actually a 2.5m cargo bay for recovering a kerbal + vessel from minmar orbit heh
L427[20:11:59] <Epsilon> Oh, never mind. It's only 200%.
L428[20:12:03] <Epsilon> So maybe I should bump it to 400.
L429[20:13:18] <Epsilon> https://www.dropbox.com/s/33kkyn2o3rmi76j/screenshot99.png?dl=0 There you go. ;p
L430[20:14:53] <madmerlyn> I really should've done this vessel differently, I designed it originally to go on a throwaway rocket so it has aerodynamic nose etc.
L431[20:15:05] <Epsilon> Dry mass is actually about 347t, but it really doesn't get down below 800t on average.
L432[20:15:27] <madmerlyn> but I should've put chutes on other end and landing legs or something
L433[20:15:41] <madmerlyn> that's really big
L434[20:15:50] <Epsilon> [31-Dec 18:02:29] <Epsilon> I wish I knew how to build small. <_<
L435[20:15:51] <Epsilon> [31-Dec 18:03:11] <Epsilon> I read that and think "... only 10t?"
L436[20:15:54] <Epsilon> ;)
L437[20:16:02] <madmerlyn> and that thing just looks ridiculous heh
L438[20:16:17] <Epsilon> It actually handles surprisingly well if you keep it subsonic.
L439[20:16:37] <Epsilon> Even if I agree with you. :V
L440[20:16:43] <madmerlyn> this is mine, no tweakscale https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/132478131490521089/397202223798681610/unknown.png?width=1170&height=659
L441[20:17:19] <Epsilon> That... doesn't look like enough wing. o.o
L442[20:17:21] <Epsilon> Using FAR?
L443[20:17:27] <madmerlyn> lol not far no
L444[20:17:45] <madmerlyn> and it works cuz there's wing inside the "nacelles" too
L445[20:17:54] <madmerlyn> OPT wings
L446[20:18:20] <Epsilon> ... hmmm. You know, I wonder. Maybe I just need some more wing area for this.
L447[20:18:33] <Epsilon> Right now, takeoff velocity is something around 150-180m/s. >_>
L448[20:18:54] <Epsilon> And most of that, I suspect, is from the overpowered engines. :V
L449[20:19:14] <madmerlyn> I mean it looks ridiculous, but there's no canards on it
L450[20:19:22] <madmerlyn> it could just be you need help getting your nose up
L451[20:20:04] <Epsilon> Yes there are. They're just too small. >_>
L452[20:21:11] <Epsilon> wobble wobble wobble
L453[20:21:24] <madmerlyn> this was the payload on my last flight with Excalibur https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/377130428991012864/397212600473223168/unknown.png
L454[20:21:33] <Epsilon> I'm pretty sure there's something fundamentally wrong with the aerodynamics on this thing, to be honest.
L455[20:22:07] <madmerlyn> you mean besides the giant nacelles on the wing tips and the landing gear that is big enough to move a skyscraper?
L456[20:24:18] <Epsilon> Yes.
L457[20:24:21] <Epsilon> :V
L458[20:24:55] <Epsilon> Those nacelles are a necessity to get me up to 25km on air breathing engines, sadly. ;p
L459[20:25:27] <Epsilon> And I had a lot of tailstrikes with smaller gear. :/
L460[20:25:43] <madmerlyn> why does minmus always change your trajectory when you timewarp? no other body does that to me
L461[20:26:01] <madmerlyn> but I"ll set up a perfect series of maneuvers, timewarp and all of a sudden my approach is 100km off
L462[20:26:31] <madmerlyn> if you want to fix tailstrikes don't make the gear bigger, make it better
L463[20:26:50] <madmerlyn> real life planes have multiposition gear, KSP doesn't, but you can work around it
L464[20:27:20] <madmerlyn> also, see this real picture of a Concorde tail https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Concorde_-_Tail_bumper_wheel_%287181575152%29.jpg
L465[20:27:32] <madmerlyn> put some gear near your tail that you only deploy on landing, not takeoff ;)
L466[20:27:47] <Epsilon> Heh. I actually considered that.
L467[20:29:40] <madmerlyn> better design should be your goto, not bigger design
L468[20:31:16] <Epsilon> Well, "big" design is kind of my thing in general. This is designed to, for example, resupply snacks for space stations in orbit around Kerbin and Minmus. Ends up being something like 100t worth of the cargo capacity.
L469[20:31:43] <madmerlyn> I have a pure stock plane that can do 55t without tweakscale
L470[20:31:54] <Epsilon> I shouldn't say I -can't- design small. I do it starting out. I just end up hating making 10 trips when I can make 1. ;p
L471[20:31:58] <madmerlyn> granted it's 55t to LKO not minmus
L472[20:32:06] <Epsilon> OH
L473[20:32:10] <Epsilon> derp, it just clicked.
L474[20:32:12] <madmerlyn> but I mean, 55t to LKO + a tug
L475[20:32:22] <Epsilon> You're using stock atmosphere/etc too, aren't you?
L476[20:32:25] <madmerlyn> ah yes
L477[20:32:28] <Epsilon> yeeeeah
L478[20:32:34] <Epsilon> 6.4x scale here.
L479[20:32:53] <madmerlyn> I mean if you're going to play 6.4x scale you should get some parts that are more realistic or something
L480[20:33:01] <madmerlyn> not just make the stock parts giant
L481[20:33:12] <Epsilon> I already have too many parts. <_<
L482[20:33:14] <Epsilon> >_>
L483[20:33:19] <Epsilon> But yeah.
L484[20:33:50] <Epsilon> KSPI is great for the engines once you hit that tech level.
L485[20:34:31] <Epsilon> (that's an antimatter powered thermal somethingorotherjet on the back end there)
L486[20:34:41] <Epsilon> Can't remember if it's the turbojet or the ramjet or what. ;p
L487[20:44:21] <madmerlyn> kerbal + "ship" recovered https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/377130428991012864/397218391498424320/unknown.png
L488[20:45:00] <Epsilon> \o/
L489[20:46:53] <madmerlyn> launched the recovery vessel in Excalibur at a cost of about 733 funds per ton :D
L490[20:47:11] <madmerlyn> plus I'm going to try to recover as much as I can
L491[20:47:24] <madmerlyn> which will bring the total mission cost down even more
L492[20:52:36] <ve2dmn> good night. See you all next year
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L495[21:02:16] <Mathuin> night!
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L498[21:11:05] <Supernovy> Evening, Gentlemen.
L499[21:11:51] <Mathuin> Don't know if any of you folks like science fiction, but the world science fiction convention is in San Jose CA next year, and if you get a minimum membership before midnight local, you will have the privilege of helping nominate works for the Hugo and Nebula prizes, if I understand correctly.
L500[21:12:23] <Mathuin> Fifty bucks US and you can read the best science fiction of the year. :-)
L501[21:14:37] <madmerlyn> if you live in driving range of the west coast
L502[21:14:58] <Mathuin> No, the fifty dollar membership level is "supporting". You do not actually have the privilege of attending the event in person.
L503[21:15:02] <Mathuin> So anywhere in the world.
L504[21:15:10] <Mathuin> It's another $160 to walk in the door.
L505[21:15:26] <Mathuin> I've only done it once, and it was when the convention was last in the SFBA. I met Terry Pratchett.
L506[21:15:31] <Mathuin> Can't beat that.
L507[21:16:01] <madmerlyn> alright time to calculate sum total cost of my rescue Casper's scrap from high Minmus orbit contract
L508[21:17:05] <madmerlyn> hum.. that can't be right..
L509[21:19:31] <madmerlyn> ah there we go, found the error
L510[21:19:57] <madmerlyn> total mission cost was 9622 funds
L511[21:20:38] <madmerlyn> 7833 in fuel on the spaceplane, + 1789 in fuel plus recovery losses on landing the main unit on the other side of the mountains from KSC
L512[21:21:10] <madmerlyn> so 9622 to grab a ship from Minmus and bring it back, which rewarded me 150,094 funds + whatever advance I got on it heh
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L514[21:30:30] <Blaank> https://youtu.be/9tbD-vX-Kks nerd video for nerds
L515[21:30:30] <kmath> YouTube - The Disappointment PC: Worst Parts of the Year
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L520[22:03:14] <Whackjob> Well, first time I ever stopped in here. Happy New Years', folks.
L521[22:03:35] <Whackjob> I get to enjoy mine from the comfort and safety of my office. =P
L522[22:05:44] <Azander> I work from home, so I do too
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L530[22:48:22] <Mathuin> I spent Y2K NYE in Rockefeller Center watching computers to make sure they didn't burst into flame or whatever.
L531[22:48:35] <Mathuin> Probably the biggest paycheck of my life at that time for the OT.
L532[22:48:50] <Mathuin> I am now playing Civilization V with the wife once she puts our daughter to bed.
L533[22:52:30] <Azander> Similar here... working for a rural ISP at the time. Had to watch the servers to make sure eveyone could get their email :P
L534[22:52:56] <Azander> 2032 will be the real headache
L535[23:00:35] <UmbralRaptor> Also 2038?
L536[23:00:53] <Azander> timespams reoll over to 0 in 2032
L537[23:00:59] <Azander> *roll
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L541[23:11:27] <Oneiros> yo
L542[23:11:47] <Oneiros> whats that popular mod called that adds more launch sites on kerbin?
L543[23:20:02] <madmerlyn> kerbinside maybe?
L544[23:23:14] <Oneiros> i thought it was kerbal konstructs but i remember seeing pics of the debug interface or a tutorial or something
L545[23:24:46] <Oneiros> its not kerbinside, at least not the one im thinking of
L546[23:25:52] <madmerlyn> instead of deorbiting my asteroid station, I think I'm going to use a combination of robotic tugs and KAS engineers to disassemble it, stow it in my new workhorse Mk3 plane and return it to KSC
L547[23:37:56] <SJ> Step 1) Fire up new PC. Step 2) Turn all KSP settings to max Step 3) Launch cargo plane off to the west at dusk as a newfangled cloud bank rolls in. Step 4) Turn around and try to RTB while mountains jump out of the gloom from scary close.
L548[23:39:56] <SJ> Bonus: Switch to all the bases in turn and watch half of them leap into the sky because of higher rez terrain. Then discover the local engineer misplaced his KAS screwdriver and can't make repairs. :)
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L550[23:41:52] <Rolf> yay new danny!
L551[23:42:44] <ve2dmn> Happy new year to all the EST folks...
L552[23:44:09] <ve2dmn> Welcome to 2017.999999999999999999999 + Timezone dt
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