OCLogs: 2017-12-28.log

Stuff goes here

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L12[01:40:41] <mabus> hating this canadian winter :(

L13[01:40:55] <mabus> spent the last 4 years in usa and got used to going without it

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L19[02:09:48] <Blaank> We have like 5 days total snow in Tennessee.

L20[02:10:15] <Blaank> Maybe 2-10 days with snow on the ground.

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L35[03:24:20] <Althego> would be nice to have wind in ksp. for gliding

L36[03:30:13] <Deddly> Yeah

L37[03:30:22] <Deddly> I've always wanted weather to be a thing

L38[03:30:40] <Deddly> Storms would add to the tension

L39[03:30:44] <Althego> it can bea precalculated map even i dont care

L40[03:31:02] <Althego> maybe with daily intensity changes

L41[03:32:04] <Deddly> There was one back in .90

L42[03:32:05] <Deddly> https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/86596-090-kerbal-weather-systems-alpha-053-wip-jan-2/

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L44[03:36:38] <BadRocketsCo> Howdy

L45[03:36:50] <Supernovy> Tere hommikust BadRocketsCo

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L62[04:52:55] <JCB> deddly not so much weather but just clouds would be nice

L63[04:53:47] <Deddly> Well that is probably the most requested stock feature, JCB.

L64[04:54:01] <Deddly> At least there are some nice mods that do it, but yeah - stock would be great

L65[04:54:13] * APlayer removes some of the real clouds from the sky and loads them into JCBs game

L66[04:55:17] <APlayer> Also, I don't think stock clouds would be great because my computer sucks at rendering. If the clouds could not be turned off in stock, it would be Kerbal Slideshow Program for me

L67[04:56:53] <TheKosmonaut> There are clouds in stock KSP

L68[04:57:04] <TheKosmonaut> just go to the VAB :p

L69[04:57:05] <APlayer> (E.g. I can barely run the game with EVE and the lightest configs installed, scatterer in any setup kills my game completely)

L70[04:57:21] <TheKosmonaut> APlayer: I tried RO and RVE once.

L71[04:57:23] <TheKosmonaut> Once.

L72[04:57:34] <TheKosmonaut> I was reader

L73[04:57:38] <TheKosmonaut> Deaded

L74[04:57:42] <Althego> ugly jagged horizon

L75[04:57:51] <Althego> green eve

L76[04:58:02] <Althego> i sad goodbye to these in a matter of minutes

L77[04:58:17] <Althego> would have been nice

L78[04:58:54] <APlayer> TBH, I am almost ready to get a new GPU that could handle KSP + scatterer, it's just so beautiful

L79[04:59:05] <Althego> it is just so ugly :)

L80[04:59:09] <APlayer> Nope

L81[04:59:23] * APlayer starts a flamewar

L82[04:59:27] <Althego> to me the aliased hills far away are so immersion breaking that i chose not to have them

L83[04:59:52] <Deddly> I see no reason why something like wouldn't be switchable

L84[04:59:54] <APlayer> I've never seen aliased hills. What setup caused them for you?

L85[05:00:03] <Althego> their default etup

L86[05:00:10] <TheKosmonaut> In Eve?

L87[05:00:12] <Althego> i tried it in several ksp versions and it was always there

L88[05:00:15] <TheKosmonaut> EVE*

L89[05:00:17] <Althego> sve + scatterer

L90[05:00:21] <APlayer> Hence you get a better config pack

L91[05:00:25] <TheKosmonaut> Oh. Never noticed.

L92[05:00:40] <Althego> if you have few pixels it may not be that visible

L93[05:00:40] <TheKosmonaut> I don't always go for it, if I do it's usually just for screenshots

L94[05:00:51] <Althego> but i am accustomed to barely visible pixels

L95[05:00:52] <APlayer> But it's the atmospheric color I am after with scatterer

L96[05:01:03] <Althego> and suddenly there are these huge pixels from 92

L97[05:01:35] <Althego> i made a huge mistake

L98[05:01:52] <Althego> in 2016 i went into a bookstore and bought an interesting looking book

L99[05:01:59] <Althego> that was t eh first volume of expanse

L100[05:02:46] <Althego> and now i am stuck with the hungarian translation (which drives me nuts, who would translate abbreviations so that i cant understand them, not to mention incorrectly) and with several months of lag after american release

L101[05:03:26] <Althego> for example point defense cannons are not PDCs but PVÁs

L102[05:03:40] <Althego> i cant comprehend what MEK would be instead of MCRN

L103[05:04:18] <Althego> and the worst offender is UN which is used as EN, however the correct hungarian name that is is usage is ENSZ

L104[05:04:36] <Althego> also this month the 7th volume is out and i cant get it. in fact i could barely get the 6th

L105[05:05:38] <Althego> oh yes, also OPA KBSZ

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L107[05:09:07] <JCB> well ya.. kinda weird, VAB or maybe even SPH shows clouds yet go for a flight, the whole planet devoid.. oh well.

L108[05:09:39] <JCB> could always make yoru own clouds, most engines put out smoke ;)

L109[05:10:41] <Althego> hehe

L110[05:10:48] <Althego> build a cloud generator!

L111[05:11:24] <Althego> it is quite easy to turn engines to the ground and then they make some kind of fog at least

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L113[05:12:59] <APlayer> The VAB shows clouds because those are basically a fixed texture. This is a shortcut that won't do if you want actual 3D clouds

L114[05:13:30] <Althego> i so want foldable wings and stock electric props. it would be beautiful to drop an electric plane to duna that would jettison an aeroshell after slowing down, unfold wings, turn on the engine and fly around the planet

L115[05:13:54] <APlayer> There are mods for all of the things you mentioned

L116[05:14:14] <Althego> mods

L117[05:14:45] <Althego> at least with the expansion i get my 2 person capsule and the extra diameter modules we need for a correct saturn v :)

L118[05:15:29] <APlayer> A significant fraction of why KSP is awesome is because it is really mod friendly. I don't understand people that just boycott mods for no reason

L119[05:15:43] <JCB> just prop engines period...

L120[05:16:02] <Althego> i built a succesful electric prop once

L121[05:16:04] <Althego> it was ugly

L122[05:16:14] <JCB> welp... 10 tons, 2 monprope engines, 4 sphere tanks not enough to land this base from 14km mun orbit

L123[05:16:24] <Althego> the second, better looking is not working again

L124[05:16:44] <APlayer> JCB: How much dv does it have?

L125[05:17:09] <JCB> no clue... testing with regular bi fuel engines now

L126[05:17:55] <JCB> ran out of mono about 1200m up and was still going 170m/s

L127[05:18:27] <APlayer> How much monoprop is in each sphere tank? What's the engine ISP?

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L129[05:19:50] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHuydz0fn3A

L130[05:19:50] <kmath> YouTube - Expedition to New Horizons

L131[05:20:01] <Althego> ok, this is from planetbase, but fits ksp, or any space game too

L132[05:20:42] <JCB> each sphere tanks held 60.. there was 8 of them.

L133[05:21:03] <Epi> https://giant.gfycat.com/MassivePossibleBobwhite.mp4

L134[05:21:33] <JCB> two puff engines, 250isp

L135[05:21:58] <Mat2ch> Epi: Uh, how?

L136[05:22:04] <Althego> hehe leidenfrost effect?

L137[05:22:25] <Mat2ch> possibly

L138[05:22:35] <Mat2ch> But is there enough water on a hand?

L139[05:23:29] <APlayer> Tsiolkovsky says you have about 670 m/s of dv. Should be a close deal, but enough given an efficient landing

L140[05:23:33] <APlayer> @JCB

L141[05:23:51] <Epi> Althego was going to say the same thing hah

L142[05:23:55] <Althego> hehe, yo, tsiolkovsky in da house

L143[05:24:44] <Althego> hmm, there could be an epic rap battles episode with von braun :)

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L145[05:25:52] <APlayer> JCB: How are you landing, then?

L146[05:25:59] <Althego> maybe a von braun vs korolev or something like that

L147[05:26:37] <APlayer> Von Braun vs. The Space Kraken

L148[05:26:58] <APlayer> (tm)

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L150[05:27:29] <JCB> APlayer just did more precise... 498 DV...

L151[05:27:47] <JCB> base was 10.455wet, 8.535 empty mono..

L152[05:27:48] <APlayer> Then it was more than 10 tons while fuelled

L153[05:28:54] <Althego> there is a tesla vs edison, so i thought maybe a von braun vs korolev in rocket science instead of electricity

L154[05:28:58] <JCB> I only got a glance at the weight, was roughing it a little.

L155[05:29:02] <APlayer> Alright, you miss about 100 m/s for a landing

L156[05:29:04] <JCB> then I just rebuilt it

L157[05:30:14] <JCB> ah.. another ring of 4 mono sphere tanks, 692

L158[05:30:30] <APlayer> MOAR fuel

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L160[05:31:25] <JCB> lol... all those spheres, like some christmas tree on the roof

L161[05:31:39] <APlayer> Considered adding an inline tank?

L162[05:33:33] <JCB> maybe... though here see

L163[05:33:33] <JCB> https://imgur.com/a/1fg7g

L164[05:33:33] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/Nj3wO2i.jpg

L165[05:34:11] <JCB> I'm mostly testing ideas.. wasting time

L166[05:34:33] <APlayer> A 1.25 m inline tank on the top would be alright, I guess

L167[05:34:36] <Althego> so cute

L168[05:34:48] <Althego> why not use bipropellant?

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L170[05:35:10] <APlayer> Engine mass/size?

L171[05:35:15] <APlayer> I guess

L172[05:35:35] <JCB> ended up just with the base, no fuel or engines...

L173[05:35:50] <JCB> they sorta came as after thought..

L174[05:35:59] <JCB> again, just testing an idea...

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L176[05:36:18] <Althego> some kind of strobe light would be nice on top

L177[05:36:28] <APlayer> Also, considered a skycrane approach?

L178[05:52:27] <JCB> going to try cut it down to just two sides instead of four.. inline rcs tank

L179[05:53:17] <JCB> also quad thrusters instead of dual..

L180[05:56:11] <JCB> just barely made it

L181[05:56:16] <JCB> ah well ok time for a bit more rest...

L182[05:56:18] <JCB> lates

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L186[06:34:08] * APlayer wishes himself luck with getting this: http://www.braeunig.us/space/atmmodel.htm#table4 into a single function

L187[06:34:36] <APlayer> Anyone perhaps know a better function that yields approximate air density vs. altitude at Kerbin?

L188[06:35:12] <APlayer> (For reference: I know this is for Earth, but the Wiki says it is very close to Kerbin if you convert the altitude)

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L205[08:07:28] <ve2dmn> APlayer: put a sensor on the ship?

L206[08:08:14] <APlayer> I am already gathering aero data point-by-point, a function would be much more convenient :P

L207[08:08:21] <APlayer> Plus, I am sure there is one somewhere

L208[08:08:34] <ve2dmn> dump data into file, make graph, approximate function?

L209[08:09:38] <ve2dmn> I mean, kOS can do that. (write to file, I mean)

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L212[08:13:14] <ve2dmn> yes steam... since I like space, I would LOVE this game... http://store.steampowered.com/app/720480/Flappy_Galaxy/

L213[08:13:19] <ve2dmn> *sigh*

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L215[08:20:33] <APlayer> Currently I am stuck with the approximate function part

L216[08:21:23] <APlayer> All kinds of software just fails, and the best I got wiggled like crazy between individual data points

L217[08:21:41] <APlayer> I've never done this before and I am kind of lost regarding what I am supposed to do

L218[08:22:41] <APlayer> It's the first time desmos.com failed me, even

L219[08:23:00] <APlayer> Not quite failed, but I feel it won't be done by tomorrow at its current speed

L220[08:26:36] ⇨ Joins: madmerlyn (madmerlyn!kiwiirc@12.160.105.66)

L221[08:34:28] <ve2dmn> APlayer: https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/structures/celestial_bodies/atmosphere.html

L222[08:35:10] <APlayer> Yeah, but I need a function, still

L223[08:35:17] <APlayer> It's for further calculations

L224[08:36:36] <ve2dmn> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+%7B0.6*exp(-h%2F8000),+1*exp(-h%2F5600)%7D+for+h%3D0+to+50000

L225[08:37:47] <ve2dmn> wait... that's not the right formulas

L226[08:39:11] <APlayer> Also, what sort of regression pattern would you use for such a plot: https://i.imgur.com/lSNk0tw.png

L227[08:39:42] <ve2dmn> what sort of data is that?

L228[08:39:56] <APlayer> Mach number versus rocket Cd

L229[08:40:36] <ve2dmn> https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/37uv0b/i_measured_atmospheric_pressure_on_laythe_and/crqb565/

L230[08:41:02] <APlayer> Not just Cd, but Cd * A

L231[08:41:40] <Althego> anybody who did aerobraking on laythe know that its higher atmosphere is vicious

L232[08:42:02] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Yeah... But I need a function... :D

L233[08:42:18] <Althego> supposedly the exact curves contain several layers, like termosphere and stuff like that

L234[08:42:30] <Althego> bit the exponential function is a very good approximation

L235[08:42:38] <APlayer> You don't have to look for one, I was just asking if anyone knew one already. Thanks a lot anyway

L236[08:43:26] <APlayer> Althego: Do you know where to find this exponential function approximation?

L237[08:43:39] <APlayer> I need one for Kerbin...

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L239[08:43:45] <ve2dmn> https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/140040-atmospheric-pressure-equation-or-measurement/&do=findComment&comment=2610009

L240[08:44:05] <Althego> slp * Math.exp(-alt/sch)

L241[08:44:18] <Althego> slp sea level pressure, sch scale height

L242[08:44:24] <Althego> alt is your altitude

L243[08:44:48] <Althego> these two constants are given for each body

L244[08:46:41] <APlayer> Wait, that's exactly what I was looking for. Where can I find the scale height?

L245[08:46:50] <Althego> i got it from the wiki :)

L246[08:47:31] <madmerlyn> greetings fellow kOS engineers

L247[08:47:41] <Althego> but they got it from somewhere, probably some game file has these

L248[08:47:48] <Althego> they even changed several times

L249[08:48:20] <APlayer> Geez, I visited the English and German Wikis. The German one had some numbers, but it was last edited 2014

L250[08:48:29] <Althego> for each planet

L251[08:48:35] <APlayer> I totally missed that the constant is in the table on the right

L252[08:48:48] <Althego> so for example ifyou look up kerbin, there is a separate table at the top right

L253[08:48:51] <Althego> each body has that

L254[08:48:54] <ve2dmn> man... APlayer thanks for the rabbid hole...

L255[08:48:54] <APlayer> Thanks a lot, and sorry for being dumb on occasion

L256[08:48:57] <Althego> and contains atmospheric data

L257[08:49:09] <Althego> always use the english

L258[08:49:36] <ve2dmn> Althego: are you sure that's not the old formula?

L259[08:49:48] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Sorry for that, and thanks for trying to help anyway

L260[08:49:58] <Althego> as i said, there is some complication tothe real one

L261[08:49:58] <APlayer> Will try to avoid such things

L262[08:50:09] <ve2dmn> APlayer: now I'm gonna do my own data gathering :D

L263[08:50:10] <Althego> you can see a diagram how temperature changes by altitude on kerbin

L264[08:50:19] <Althego> and temperature has influence on pressure

L265[08:50:24] <Althego> so it is not exactly exponential

L266[08:50:28] <Althego> but very close

L267[08:50:54] <Althego> what changed in different ksp versions was atmosphere ceiling and the scale height

L268[08:51:39] <Althego> ah yes the exponential function is valid until the top of the atmosphere

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L271[08:53:17] <APlayer> https://i.imgur.com/v1mglzF.png alright, we are getting somewhere

L272[08:54:08] <APlayer> I wish I could split it up into four polynomial functions, but I can't work with that, then

L273[08:56:35] <APlayer> This looks an awful lot like something I could describe by a sum of exponential functions, but I just can't seem to make it work

L274[08:57:20] <madmerlyn> oo a graph

L275[09:00:06] <Althego> what is this graph

L276[09:00:16] <Althego> what is on the axes?

L277[09:01:29] <Althego> you could also try to summon taniwha if he remembers how the atmospheric pressure is calculated :)

L278[09:03:18] <Althego> after one month the new speakers arrived. finally

L279[09:03:30] <Althego> yi hated the headphones

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L282[09:06:13] <ve2dmn> I have data

L283[09:06:30] <ve2dmn> 5605 data points

L284[09:07:44] <ve2dmn> https://imgur.com/a/tF8XH

L285[09:07:44] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/WOBxJgt.png

L286[09:08:18] <APlayer> Althego: The graph is Mach number vs. Cd * A of a rocket. I got help in #kspacademia, now it looks like this: https://imgur.com/WXa7gYT

L287[09:08:18] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/WXa7gYT.png

L288[09:09:41] <madmerlyn> I thought it was a graph of NASA's budget over time

L289[09:09:51] <APlayer> LOL

L290[09:10:16] <APlayer> madmerlyn: Did you have a chance to make the KSP meme? :D

L291[09:10:24] <madmerlyn> no?

L292[09:10:43] <madmerlyn> oh the programming one? shoot completely forgot about it

L293[09:11:28] <APlayer> No worries, and don't hurry

L294[09:11:43] <APlayer> Was just wondering if I missed it

L295[09:14:39] <ve2dmn> Data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fWdlQRR3kqZEoyFNhO_dx3IXNmyZLpGDUtEzHKloc6g/edit?usp=sharing

L296[09:15:43] <APlayer> ve2dmn: That was an atmospheric probe sounding rocket?

L297[09:15:52] <ve2dmn> pretty much

L298[09:16:07] <ve2dmn> 1 SRB + sensor and kOS

L299[09:16:14] <APlayer> Alright, let me see if the data matches the function given in the wiki

L300[09:17:31] <ve2dmn> what's the formula again? I'll make a new colomn to compare

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L302[09:20:04] *** Eric is now known as EricPoehlsen

L303[09:20:48] <APlayer> If I got the format correctly, then 100 * e^(-x/5600)

L304[09:21:00] <APlayer> But no

L305[09:22:58] <APlayer> Desmos refuses to handle so many rows

L306[09:23:50] <APlayer> Ah, I see what you did there

L307[09:24:16] <ve2dmn> it's close enough

L308[09:24:32] <APlayer> Alright, in that case...

L309[09:25:00] <APlayer> Wait, your function returned kPa, right?

L310[09:25:16] <APlayer> Then I got the function wrong, I though this was % ASL

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L312[09:26:28] <ve2dmn> The error is highest at around 6300 with 10% difference

L313[09:26:38] <ve2dmn> as in 32 vs 36

L314[09:27:04] <APlayer> 101.325 * e^(-x/5600) is the correct function, then

L315[09:29:03] <APlayer> 1895 is the max error row, might highlight it

L316[09:31:28] <ve2dmn> there

L317[09:32:12] <ve2dmn> I have to leave, but I'll be back in a few hours

L318[09:32:33] <ve2dmn> feel free to copy the sheet and find a better formula, or better data

L319[09:37:49] <APlayer> Thanks!

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L322[09:49:28] <TheKosmonaut> https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/12/28/time-lapse-video-falcon-heavy-goes-vertical/

L323[09:49:30] <TheKosmonaut> Woooo

L324[09:49:41] <TheKosmonaut> Falcon Heavy is vertical at pad 39a

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L326[09:51:54] <lordcirth> "Sorry Because of its privacy settings, this video cannot be played here." ??

L327[09:52:13] <lordcirth> US-only video or what?

L328[09:52:19] <TheKosmonaut> Dunno

L329[09:52:24] <TheKosmonaut> It is working here in japan

L330[09:53:51] <Oneiros> oboy

L331[09:53:57] <Oneiros> works for me in australia

L332[09:54:43] <Oneiros> i wonder if it has the tesla inside

L333[09:55:04] <lordcirth> Canada here

L334[09:55:06] <madmerlyn> yes it should

L335[09:55:37] <EricPoehlsen> hmm I can't get it either ...

L336[09:55:54] <Oneiros> excellent. i cant wait to see that thing explode.

L337[09:56:10] <Oneiros> i predict a truly KSP style first launch

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L340[09:57:36] <Althego> hehe

L341[09:57:37] <APlayer> So, an explosion with a car emerging out of it?

L342[09:57:43] <Althego> boosters will hit the center stage :)

L343[09:58:05] <Oneiros> haha what a fantastic sight that would be

L344[09:58:13] <APlayer> I wonder if they added some sort of parachute assembly onto the car

L345[09:58:36] <APlayer> Costs little, they have payload mass to spare, car could be rescued in case of explosion

L346[09:58:50] <GlsFrg|phone> "10PCS Micro 130 pony up to four drive dc motor small motor production of 3V" how many ponies are in 1 horsepower

L347[09:58:52] <APlayer> Does not even have to work after being rescued, they'd just launch it next time

L348[09:59:05] <Oneiros> it would probably increase publicity

L349[09:59:18] <Oneiros> put it on display at spacex HQ

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L351[09:59:42] <madmerlyn> while it might make a fantastic episode of mythbusters, FH exploding would be badbadbad

L352[10:00:07] <madmerlyn> last time SpaceX had a failure they had to suspend launches for a few months while FAA investigated IIRC

L353[10:00:11] <Oneiros> but musk even admitted publically that there's a high chance its gonna happen

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L355[10:00:44] <Oneiros> when talking in reference to those two pioneering space tourists who want to go to the moon

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L360[10:34:32] <TheKosmonaut> APlayer: I doubt a car would survive an explosion mid-launch

L361[10:35:00] <TheKosmonaut> The Dragon survived their last incident till it hit the water but it's designed for that at least

L362[10:35:13] <APlayer> I think they are launching mostly a piece of metal there

L363[10:35:27] <TheKosmonaut> It'd be pretty sick to see a cherry red Roadster get shredded up by the atmosphere though

L364[10:35:31] <APlayer> Probably no batteries and perhaps no motor on it

L365[10:36:01] <Althego> the electric motors are not that heavy that they would need removal

L366[10:36:27] <APlayer> No, but they might explode in the unusual environment :P

L367[10:36:42] <Althego> wires? they dont

L368[10:37:05] <APlayer> There is more than wires, though

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L370[10:37:15] <APlayer> And who know how the cooling works

L371[10:37:36] <TheKosmonaut> I loved a recent episode of Grand Tour

L372[10:37:43] <TheKosmonaut> "The car caught fire for 9 days"

L373[10:38:01] <APlayer> Wut

L374[10:38:01] <TheKosmonaut> "They put out one fire, but the next battery cell ruptured or caught fire and the entire thing was up in flames again"

L375[10:38:20] <TheKosmonaut> APlayer: An electric car was totaled and its cells kept rupturing

L376[10:38:36] <TheKosmonaut> Ever see someone pierce a battery?

L377[10:38:55] <APlayer> I did, but the wording confused me

L378[10:39:01] <madmerlyn> well here's the thing though, the Roadster will be in unpressurized vacuum after successful launch

L379[10:39:16] <APlayer> ^

L380[10:39:19] <madmerlyn> lithium batteries explode when punctured because lithium + atmosphere don't mix well

L381[10:39:35] <madmerlyn> the batteries might not fare well in space, but I hardly think they'll be unstable

L382[10:39:50] <APlayer> The acid might boil and who knows what can happen in there...

L383[10:40:11] <APlayer> Also, extreme temperatures

L384[10:40:14] <madmerlyn> is the electrolyte in a lion caustic?

L385[10:40:16] <APlayer> Also, radiation

L386[10:40:46] <madmerlyn> oh there's a lot of things that will be hard on the battery, no doubt

L387[10:40:51] <APlayer> "is the electrolyte in a lion caustic?" pretty sure electrolytes in Mammals are usually Hydrochloric Acid

L388[10:40:54] <APlayer> :P

L389[10:41:04] <madmerlyn> but I think it's just going to swell up and stop being a battery, I don't think anything explosive will happen

L390[10:42:48] <APlayer> Well, I wouldn't want to be close to an electric car in space, even if I had a spacesuit

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L392[10:43:23] <APlayer> The thing is, you never know what exactly could explode

L393[10:43:53] <APlayer> So you better just remove things that are risky, considering you won't need them anyway

L394[10:44:56] <madmerlyn> well I believe he wants the radio to be on so it's going to need a battery

L395[10:45:49] <madmerlyn> going to play "Pen Pineapple Apple Pen" on a loop ad infinitum

L396[10:46:16] <madmerlyn> not really, I dunno what playlist he wants, but hopefully it's not PPAP :P

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L399[10:49:16] <Althego> lol ppap

L400[10:49:34] <Althego> but how would it play music in space?

L401[10:49:56] <APlayer> Remotely

L402[10:50:13] <madmerlyn> the speakers move, but no one hears them

L403[10:50:28] <madmerlyn> he's a billionaire he can do what he wants

L404[10:50:39] <madmerlyn> maybe the interior of the car will be pressurized?

L405[10:50:41] <APlayer> You can hear it by observing the speakers vibration and reconstructing the sound wave based on that

L406[10:50:52] <dreadkopp> Althego: AUX-Out XD

L407[10:51:31] <madmerlyn> maybe he has one of those short-range RF transmitters attached to his radio?

L408[10:51:49] <madmerlyn> like the ones people use to connect their phones to really old radios

L409[10:52:12] <dreadkopp> suggestions for new planets ? i am like maybe 200 hours in New Horizons. but 1st are missions kindof broken sometimes and planets (surfaces) are. any other recommendations ?

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L411[10:57:23] <APlayer> 200 hours in New Horizons? Sorry?

L412[10:58:07] <dreadkopp> New Horizons == planet / solar system replacement for KSP ... 200h playtime with that mod roundabout :P

L413[10:59:16] <APlayer> Ah

L414[10:59:33] <APlayer> I only use OPM

L415[10:59:39] <dreadkopp> i'd really like to give real solar system a shot but i guess it will be too frustrating :P

L416[10:59:51] <APlayer> There are some mods that add interstellar travel, though

L417[10:59:57] <dreadkopp> especially when rockets need to be bigger and my cpu cannot handle it any more

L418[11:00:20] <APlayer> Also, RSS is not too bad once you get the hang of it

L419[11:00:26] <APlayer> Just need bigger rockets

L420[11:02:07] <Mat2ch> dreadkopp: they don't have to be that much bigger. You just have to unnerf them ;)

L421[11:02:25] <Mat2ch> also SpaceY parts pack helps a lot :D

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L423[11:04:01] <dreadkopp> Galileos planet pack looks nice : https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/152136-ksp-131-galileos-planet-pack-v1599-22-dec-2017/

L424[11:04:31] <dreadkopp> there was some mod which added real newtonian physics as well... anyone remember the name ?

L425[11:04:31] <Althego> hehe the elite style solar system map

L426[11:04:42] <APlayer> principia?

L427[11:05:12] <dreadkopp> APlayer: thanks :)

L428[11:05:31] <APlayer> The learning curve is steep, but the mod is awesome

L429[11:05:43] <dreadkopp> dunno if my tiny CPU likes it though haha

L430[11:07:15] <Mat2ch> dreadkopp: my computer is five years old. I could play RSS

L431[11:07:44] <dreadkopp> i5 3320M here ... and KSP still pretty single-threaded afaik

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L433[11:08:58] <lordcirth> KSP bottlenecks on one thread for your largest craft in physics range. Better than nothing, though.

L434[11:09:00] <dreadkopp> bloody lagrange points allready messing with my brain haha

L435[11:10:12] <madmerlyn> I wish they could do a performance passover to make KSP multithread better

L436[11:10:29] <madmerlyn> or like.. make certain parts/joints "weld" as far as physics calculations go

L437[11:10:35] <dreadkopp> you just launch your rocket, then do this and voila munar orbit... easy-peasy :P https://camo.githubusercontent.com/eee12ab57501bcb612f922cfbe1b33933a25e8a7/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f346d434d3472362e706e67

L438[11:11:02] <Mathuin> Have to admit it's pretty.

L439[11:11:03] <lordcirth> neat

L440[11:11:11] <madmerlyn> if you have 50 wing segments attached to each other to make a big wing, it should calculate that as 1 big wing for physics

L441[11:11:12] <APlayer> dreadkopp: Bad demonstration for the complexity of principia

L442[11:11:19] <madmerlyn> instead of calculating each little piece individually

L443[11:11:26] <lordcirth> madmerlyn, then wings couldn't flex

L444[11:11:28] <APlayer> This is just a triple close encounter with capture on the third one

L445[11:11:36] <dreadkopp> madmerlyn: there is a mod for that though

L446[11:11:46] <lordcirth> yeah, welding

L447[11:11:50] <dreadkopp> in the editor you can weld parts to bigger parts

L448[11:11:56] <lordcirth> Or just procedural wings in the case of wings

L449[11:11:57] <JCB> what was it he said... crafts in KSP are just a collection of parts all flying in very presice formation?

L450[11:12:01] <APlayer> The fourth one, even

L451[11:12:08] <dreadkopp> unless you weld together too many parts with functions it works fine

L452[11:13:07] <JCB> mm... thoughts: many parts with a specific function each, or few parts that share some load of the various functions betweent hem?

L453[11:13:44] <APlayer> Many parts. Definitely many parts.

L454[11:13:59] <dreadkopp> just tested it once mostly welding a giant spaceplane into one piece ... not my brightest idea XD

L455[11:14:30] <dreadkopp> but for combining a few static parts it's fine

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L457[11:14:50] <APlayer> Isn't normal manufacturing exactly that, though? Welding many parts into one big thing?

L458[11:14:52] <JCB> there are a few structual parts in stock... nothing in them, just filler sorta? I sometimes wondered about doing versions which makes use of the space inside of them

L459[11:15:28] <madmerlyn> the Near Future Construction parts often have interior nodes so you can put stuff inside them as well as attach to the outside of them

L460[11:15:57] <madmerlyn> and the octo trusses let you do that, or they have configurations that let you put tanks etc. in

L461[11:16:08] <APlayer> NFT is awesome

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L464[11:17:14] <madmerlyn> there was another mod I saw recently, somethign to do with garages, that basically let you put craft inside a cargo bay or garage, but the craft would not even be loaded into the game or physics at all until you deployed the cargo

L465[11:17:32] <madmerlyn> basically would just ass the mass to the parent part but not have anything actually inside until you deploy

L466[11:17:40] <madmerlyn> to reduce CPU load during atmospheric flight etc.

L467[11:17:49] <madmerlyn> add*

L468[11:17:53] <ve2dmn_phone> madmerlyn: I think that the construction mod

L469[11:18:03] <ve2dmn_phone> +is

L470[11:18:17] <Mathuin> kOS question: I run my lib script to load my functions, but calling my functions doesn't work from the command line -- where it does work when I do it in a script.

L471[11:18:18] <ve2dmn_phone> Stupid phone autocucumber

L472[11:18:32] <Mathuin> Cannot call this lock or function or delegate from the interpreter when it was declared in a program.

L473[11:18:38] <JCB> octo truss...

L474[11:18:52] <ve2dmn_phone> Mathuin: error message?

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L476[11:19:24] <Mathuin> Ah the verbose description sends me to a documentation page which says "don't do that"

L477[11:19:34] <Mathuin> The "Cannot call ..." was the error message.

L478[11:19:49] <dreadkopp> downloading prinicipa + galileo PP ... This evening Jebediah WILL BE REBORN!!!

L479[11:20:27] <APlayer> Mathuin: You run a library, "install" the functions and try to use them from the command line?

L480[11:20:29] <ve2dmn_phone> Weird. And it works in a script?

L481[11:20:50] <madmerlyn> I think if you import it like with `import functions.ks` you have to call the function by full name like this `functions.stage2().`

L482[11:21:03] <madmerlyn> but I'm just spitballing here

L483[11:21:27] <madmerlyn> at least that's how you would do it if you were importing in python interpreter

L484[11:21:28] <Mathuin> APlayer: yes. ve2dmn_phone: yes. madmerlyn: undefined variable name.

L485[11:21:53] <APlayer> Mathuin: This does not work, as the functions are gone as soon as your script stops executing

L486[11:22:01] <Mathuin> The actual kOS docs say it *doesn't* work from the terminal interpreter because the memory in which the scripts live and the memory in which the interpreter lives are different.

L487[11:22:03] <APlayer> You may only use them from inside your script

L488[11:22:15] <Mathuin> This makes the interpreter somewhat less useful.

L489[11:22:23] <APlayer> It does

L490[11:22:28] <ve2dmn_phone> :/

L491[11:22:42] <APlayer> But you may always execute multiple lines in it

L492[11:22:44] <Mathuin> TIL I'll be using vi a lot durin gmy missions in the archive. :-)

L493[11:23:34] <ve2dmn_phone> Mathuin: don't trust the archive: they might disconnect if you lose the signal

L494[11:23:40] <Mathuin> ChangeApo() has two calls to Orbitalvelocity(), yes, it's theoretically possible to force it into a one-liner.

L495[11:23:48] <ve2dmn_phone> Also, vim ftw

L496[11:23:55] <madmerlyn> I'm a gedit scrub

L497[11:23:59] <Mathuin> ve2dmn_phone: this means preplanning every mission. I'm actually using Atom but vi is good in a pinch.

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L500[11:24:10] <APlayer> I use Adobe Brackets

L501[11:24:32] <APlayer> Pretty amazing webdev IDE, but still pretty amazing fro scripting languages such as kOS

L502[11:24:37] <APlayer> for*

L503[11:24:52] <APlayer> The trick is to find a language with similar syntax for the highlighter to work

L504[11:25:04] <APlayer> I settled on Stylus

L505[11:25:06] <Mathuin> The guy who wrote kOS wrote the Atom plugin for it.

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L507[11:25:32] *** Ezriilc_ is now known as Ezriilc

L508[11:25:46] <APlayer> Atom is paid, IIRC?

L509[11:25:56] <madmerlyn> I just set it C++ and highlighting works fine

L510[11:26:14] <dreadkopp> Atom is free and magnificent XD

L511[11:26:32] <ve2dmn_phone> Editor wars

L512[11:26:42] <madmerlyn> if you're consistent with your use of caps C++ highlighting is more than sufficient for kOS scripts

L513[11:26:52] <Mathuin> vi is good for emergency tweaks, Emacs is the one true editor :-)

L514[11:27:02] <dreadkopp> so it begins .... :P

L515[11:27:18] <APlayer> https://xkcd.com/378/

L516[11:27:50] <dreadkopp> XD

L517[11:28:45] <ve2dmn_phone> I use different editors in different occasions

L518[11:29:08] * UmbralRaptor tends towards vi. Runs on everything, doesn't devour resources like an IDE.

L519[11:29:17] <APlayer> The alt text for the comic is mandatory, though

L520[11:29:36] <APlayer> In case anyone missed it

L521[11:29:46] <ve2dmn_phone> Including vi, vim, notepad++, gedit, etc

L522[11:30:46] <ve2dmn_phone> I'm heading back home because this weather is just brutal

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L525[11:31:54] <UmbralRaptor> ve2dmn_phone: hang out next to a nuclear reactor?

L526[11:32:48] <Guest59728> I think he said the other side of the temperature scale :)

L527[11:33:59] <JCB> rather hang out next to an RTG... less radiation, more heat

L528[11:34:44] <Guest59728> there is a notepad++ highlighter - I don't know if it is any good https://www.reddit.com/r/Kos/comments/322us6/i_made_a_userdefined_language_for_notepad/

L529[11:37:20] <ve2dmn_phone> Guest59728: it's -22C outside

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L536[11:42:58] <Mathuin> xeg<TAB><TAB> -- xeger/kos-ramp looks pretty darned awesome.

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L543[11:45:52] <ve2dmn> back home

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L545[11:46:17] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: you wanted to look at someone's code for a lib, there's a lot to look at here: https://github.com/xeger/kos-ramp

L546[11:46:31] <ve2dmn> nice. thanks

L547[11:46:42] <ve2dmn> I'll lit up the fireplace and take a look at it

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L552[11:59:10] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: you can set variables and then run scripts...

L553[11:59:23] <ve2dmn> that would kind of be like calling functions

L554[12:04:57] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: I'm reading https://github.com/xeger/kos-ramp/blob/master/launch_asc.ks

L555[12:05:37] <ve2dmn> using body:atm:height as an indicator for acent profile sounds like a genius idea

L556[12:05:43] <ve2dmn> Why didn't I think of that...

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L559[12:10:06] <madmerlyn> does kOS let you execute commands based on triggers even if you have no kerbnet?

L560[12:10:13] <ve2dmn> I made fire. My ancestors would be proud

L561[12:10:22] <madmerlyn> like could you make a probe that's designed to land itself even if there's no relay in range

L562[12:10:46] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: yes, but you have to copy the files to local storage

L563[12:11:08] <madmerlyn> nice

L564[12:11:44] <ve2dmn> That's the first thing my scripts does...

L565[12:11:59] <ve2dmn> although, at this point in the game, it's not really useful

L566[12:12:02] <Mathuin> I'm examining this ramp system's copying system via boot.

L567[12:12:05] <madmerlyn> I use a bootloader

L568[12:12:18] <madmerlyn> bootloader loads the appropriate files to local storage

L569[12:12:24] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: I like it, except my ship names are not consistent

L570[12:12:54] <Mathuin> That can be a problem.

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L572[12:14:07] <ve2dmn> I use a simple convention of Function-version_number

L573[12:14:24] <ve2dmn> but then I rename most vessels before launch

L574[12:15:37] <madmerlyn> this career my Spartans are the first probes to go on an interplanetary mission and ultimately become primary relays for those systems

L575[12:15:57] <madmerlyn> spaceplanes are named mostly after Arthurian names

L576[12:16:06] <EricPoehlsen> hmm strange kRPC Vessel.flight().surface_altitude gets values while Vessel.flight().speed remains 0.0 in kRPC anyone know why?

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L578[12:16:19] <madmerlyn> I named one probe after my cat after I had him put down

L579[12:16:34] <madmerlyn> my reusable Dragon-style pod is called the Kraken

L580[12:17:36] <ve2dmn> EricPoehlsen: it's speed compared to what?

L581[12:17:47] <ve2dmn> is it groundspeed or orbit speed?

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L583[12:20:31] <EricPoehlsen> ve2dmn: currently I did this: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/GmwtC8alVmSz238Balbr/

L584[12:21:39] <ve2dmn> EricPoehlsen: https://github.com/krpc/krpc/issues/215

L585[12:22:05] <ve2dmn> "When this is called with no arguments, the vessel’s surface reference frame is used. This reference frame moves with the vessel, therefore velocities and speeds returned by the flight object will be zero. See the reference frames tutorial for examples of getting the orbital and surface speeds of a vessel."

L586[12:22:24] <EricPoehlsen> ah okay

L587[12:23:26] <madmerlyn> it would be cool to build a python app that uses alexmoon calculations and kRPC to plot and execute transfer and mid-course adjustment burns

L588[12:23:29] <ve2dmn> I know nothing or kRPC, I just asked 'the Google'

L589[12:23:33] <Mathuin> What's the process for installing my own ModuleManager patch? RAMP code is big and I dont' want to delete things.

L590[12:24:06] <Mathuin> The patch is very short, makes one tweak to each of four parts.

L591[12:24:12] <madmerlyn> just need to stick a .cfg file in your gamedata folder, I have a folder in my gamedata called "MadMerlynsCustomAssets"

L592[12:24:38] <madmerlyn> make sure you use the FINAL flag in MM script so it supercedes any conflicting patches

L593[12:30:40] <ve2dmn> time to rewrite my entire launch script

L594[12:32:23] <ve2dmn> If you look at my launch script, I had a logging mechanism that would write tons of data to a csv file that I could analyse later...

L595[12:33:00] <ve2dmn> but it would crash at launch it I forgot to put a barometer on the ship

L596[12:33:16] <madmerlyn> I could fix that with maybe 1 line?

L597[12:33:28] <madmerlyn> well 3 or 4 lines

L598[12:33:42] <Mathuin> I like the idea of using sensors if they exist to provide data.

L599[12:34:18] <madmerlyn> before your main loop begins have it check all the parts on the ship, if it can't find one with the barometer experiment, print ABORT YOU FORGOT THE BAROMETER EEDIOT and exit program

L600[12:34:22] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: the ideal situation would be to check for the presence of each variable, add the value to the string and then log the finished string

L601[12:35:48] <Mathuin> Adding final did nothing :-()

L602[12:35:50] <Mathuin> Sadness.

L603[12:36:08] <Mathuin> And I added it in the right place.

L604[12:36:15] <ve2dmn> this bit: https://github.com/ve2dmn/kOS-Script/blob/master/launch4.ks#L53-L98

L605[12:37:09] <ve2dmn> would print mission time, altitude, target altitude, speed, Q, pressure, etc...

L606[12:37:47] <madmerlyn> it would be cool to have a kOS script record thermometer values too

L607[12:38:03] <madmerlyn> do some real science inside KSP instead of just the specific biome completions

L608[12:38:23] <ve2dmn> check https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/structures/vessels/vesselsensors.html

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L610[12:42:45] <Mathuin> Just to confirm -- a part has a module, a module has a setting. I put :final on the module block of my patch, but it's not sticking. Why?

L611[12:44:04] <madmerlyn> should look something like this `@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]]:FINAL`

L612[12:46:15] <Mathuin> https://github.com/xeger/kos-ramp/wiki/Boot at the bottom has a suggested patch, without :FINAL. It could be rewritten to your format.

L613[12:46:54] <Mathuin> `@PART[kOSMachine1m]:HAS[@MODULE[kOSProcessor]]:FINAL { diskSpace = 524288 }` or something

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L616[12:48:48] <madmerlyn> I think the diskspace portion is what's erroring

L617[12:49:41] <Mathuin> Each part in the kOS addon has a part.cfg which has a MODULE {} block with a name kOSProcessor and a key diskSpace with a value.

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L619[12:51:14] <xShadowx> you're editing 'diskSpace' at PART level

L620[12:51:25] <xShadowx> you need to edit at MODULE level

L621[12:51:56] <Mathuin> https://github.com/xeger/kos-ramp/wiki/Boot has the patch I'm talking about at the bottom. It edits at MODULE level.

L622[12:52:12] <xShadowx> { @MODULE[KOSProcessor] { diskSpace = 524288 } }

L623[12:52:15] <Mathuin> When I put that actual patch in play, no change is observed in the diskSpace variable.

L624[12:52:45] <madmerlyn> `@PART[kOSMachine1m]:HAS[@MODULE[kOSProcessor]]:FINAL {@MODULE[kOSProcessor]{ diskSpace = 524288 }}`

L625[12:52:57] <madmerlyn> first part is the filter, second part is the change

L626[12:53:26] <madmerlyn> although really you could just filter it by name if you're doing explicit naming

L627[12:53:44] <Mathuin> Do I really need the :HAS if all of them can has?

L628[12:54:00] <madmerlyn> if you're doing it by explicit naming you don't need the has filter no

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L630[12:54:32] <Mathuin> Taking the has filter out makes the only change being the addition of :FINAL to the part designation in the existing patch.

L631[12:54:35] <Mathuin> Which I'd already tried.

L632[12:55:01] <Mathuin> Trying again in case it was a typo on my part

L633[12:55:14] <xShadowx> if another mod/patch runs after yours with final, it can overwrite as well

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L635[12:55:31] <xShadowx> also caps matter

L636[12:55:36] <madmerlyn> so name your custom patch folder zzzPatches or something

L637[12:55:45] <madmerlyn> that way it definitely runs last

L638[12:55:48] <xShadowx> ^ even as a test

L639[12:59:21] <Mathuin> The only .cfg files in my GameData that refer to diskSpace are the kOS ones and mine. My file is upper-case, kOS is lower, if upper comes before lower, that might be bad. The kOS ones don't have :FINAL, but I'll try zzz for my file.

L640[13:00:13] <ve2dmn> Upper is before lower

L641[13:00:41] <ve2dmn> ASCII A is #65, ASCII a is #97

L642[13:02:20] <Mathuin> Okay, named it zzz, not seeing a change.

L643[13:02:42] <Mathuin> Destroyed the part, pulled another one out of inventory, there's a change.

L644[13:02:49] <Mathuin> Does that make sense?

L645[13:04:39] <ve2dmn> probably

L646[13:04:59] <Mathuin> Sorry to waste everyone's time then. :-(

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L648[13:05:08] <ve2dmn> it's fine

L649[13:05:46] <madmerlyn> time wasting is what we do around here

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L652[13:27:07] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn I think I'm going to be cruising around kerbin SOI recording temperatures to a spreadsheet now lol

L653[13:27:25] <ve2dmn> :D

L654[13:29:59] <ve2dmn> I'm watching someone play SpaceEngineers... I'm not sure what you are suppose to do in this game

L655[13:30:51] <lordcirth> ve2dmn, well, it's a sandbox, so whatever you want I guess?

L656[13:32:42] <ve2dmn> I was expecting some sort of survival thingy

L657[13:33:29] <ve2dmn> I guess it's the same reason I don't see the appeal of Minecraft Sandbox

L658[13:35:54] <RandomJeb> space engineers looks like one of those games that will disappoint me immensely with all its limitations

L659[13:36:03] <RandomJeb> so I decided not to play [thing] engineers

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L661[13:42:24] <Mathuin> My gravity turn is more efficient but more tuned, xeger's stuff works pretty well.

L662[13:42:49] <madmerlyn> I must see all the gravity turn code to better understand

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L664[13:43:18] <Mathuin> I shared mine yesterday

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L667[13:43:57] <Mathuin> But xeger's RAMP system is amazing. You can preprogram the entire mission.

L668[13:43:59] <ve2dmn> I found the kOS 'way' of getting g0: "SET g TO KERBIN:MU / KERBIN:RADIUS^2."

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L670[13:44:19] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: I like that a lot better than a plain number.

L671[13:44:57] <ve2dmn> it was in the PIDloop example

L672[13:45:03] <Mathuin> Nice.

L673[13:45:24] <ve2dmn> https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/tutorials/pidloops.html#proportional-integral-feedback-loop-pi-loop

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L675[13:46:36] <RandomJeb> I was putting together a kOS library once to just preprogram an entire mission, except for collecting science because kOS didn't have hooks into anything I could use at the time to get past the dialog where you send, keep or process the science

L676[13:46:40] <RandomJeb> not sure if it does now

L677[13:47:38] <Mathuin> There appears to be some rudimentary support for science at least.

L678[13:48:01] <RandomJeb> I had launch, orbital maneuvers and transfers down when an update broke most of my scripts and I gave up the project :P

L679[13:48:06] <Mathuin> https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/structures/vessels/scienceexperiment.html#scienceexperimentmodule

L680[13:49:03] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: there are several ways to do a launch script.

L681[13:49:37] <ve2dmn> 1) try to keep Ap at a constant minimum distance so you know you are always going to space

L682[13:50:39] <ve2dmn> 2)Do simple (at time X, pitch Y), (at altitude X, pitch Y), at groundspeed X, pitch Y)

L683[13:51:38] <ve2dmn> 3) Try to estimate the amount of dV loss to air resistance and gravity, and pitch to keep the 2 at a minimum

L684[13:52:53] <ve2dmn> My best launch script would slowly roast the rocket at around 45k of altitude

L685[13:53:30] <ve2dmn> but I had a 80k x 20k orbit before even being out of the atmosphere

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L687[13:53:52] <ve2dmn> I also exploded before being at 60k

L688[13:54:03] <madmerlyn> well that's a little too fast then :P

L689[13:54:22] <madmerlyn> I think I would shoot for just being around -18 to 0km peri by the time I'm entering coast period heh

L690[13:54:25] <ve2dmn> But it did what I asked, so I'm not mad

L691[13:54:32] <madmerlyn> I'm mad.

L692[13:54:38] <EricPoehlsen> hmm yeah my current launch script does the gravity turn a little shallow

L693[13:54:59] <ve2dmn> simple: be more aggresive in turning

L694[13:55:33] <ve2dmn> Pass MaxQ, as long as Time-to-AP is not going down, you are probably fine

L695[13:55:34] <EricPoehlsen> no I meant it goes to 0° pitch at 30000m which is a little too agressive

L696[13:56:57] <EricPoehlsen> I currently start slowly turning based on current speed and altitude until apoapse height reaches 45000 than turning more agressive

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L698[13:59:02] <ve2dmn> EricPoehlsen: I've tried several formulas. My Pitchspeed is "(100-(GROUNDSPEED/12)).", and my AltitudePitch TO (90 - ((SHIP:Altitude /50000 )*90)).

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L700[13:59:39] <EricPoehlsen> okay

L701[14:00:24] <ve2dmn> it goes to 0 degree at 1200 m/s (horizontal) and 50k alitude respectively

L702[14:02:19] <EricPoehlsen> I was thinking about just staying pitched at 90 until 10000m keeping speed below 800m/s and start turning from there to keep the heating under control

L703[14:02:33] <ve2dmn> That's too late

L704[14:02:41] <ve2dmn> I start to turn at 500m

L705[14:02:51] <EricPoehlsen> I do currently at 100m/s

L706[14:03:23] <EricPoehlsen> 80° below 5000m / 60° below 12000m 45° until apoapse 45000

L707[14:03:39] <ve2dmn> Do it more gradual

L708[14:04:19] <EricPoehlsen> it is running gradually the script does target_pitch -= .1 every .15 seconds using the above numbers as limits

L709[14:05:06] <ve2dmn> then it's probably within reasonable margins of 'good enough'

L710[14:05:34] <EricPoehlsen> except in the second part which is based on apoapse height, I am turning too early

L711[14:05:37] <ve2dmn> the only thing is that depending on the TWR of the rocket, you need to be more or less conservative

L712[14:05:49] <ve2dmn> which is why I used more then 1 function

L713[14:06:06] <EricPoehlsen> so I get pretty roasted at 30-35000 m

L714[14:07:24] <ve2dmn> You could do what Mathuin did and simply keep the Time-to-AP close to 60sec

L715[14:08:14] <ve2dmn> It might not be the most efficient use of dV, but it's a safer way to garanty you get to space

L716[14:08:26] <madmerlyn> guarantee

L717[14:08:31] <madmerlyn> you butchered that one m8

L718[14:08:55] <EricPoehlsen> well I just started scripting - so I am currently just messing around - and it is a pretty lazy script. I do the circularization by creating a maneuver node at the apoapse once I am above 70.000 and then adjust its prograde until its periapse comes up to the desired value and using that vector to do the circulization burn

L719[14:09:05] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: sorry

L720[14:09:53] <EricPoehlsen> I mean started scripting for kRPC

L721[14:10:30] <ve2dmn> Whatever float your boat

L722[14:11:58] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: the french speealing is 'garantie'

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L724[14:13:39] <Mathuin> I think kRPC is a bad choice for something like a gravity turn.

L725[14:13:48] <ve2dmn> The Anglo-Norman tendendy to replace 'g' with 'w' throws me off quite a bit. I never know if I'm supposed to use 'warranty' or 'guarantee'

L726[14:13:51] <Mathuin> Using kRPC to initiate a launch, which is managed by kOS, makes more sense.

L727[14:14:29] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: but kRPC runs circles around kOS in terms of Operations per seconds

L728[14:14:51] <Mathuin> kOS runs on the vehicle, I think that trumps cycles. YMMV

L729[14:16:02] <ve2dmn> In the end, I use kOS

L730[14:17:25] <EricPoehlsen> I just don't want to add another (very specialized) scripting language to my brain - kRPC allows for using plain python

L731[14:17:30] <madmerlyn> lol I was just correcting spelling, nothing personal

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L733[14:18:16] <madmerlyn> good thing about human brains is they have virtually unlimited capacity for storage, provided you take care of them

L734[14:18:33] <madmerlyn> you can pick up another programming language without hurting your other ones

L735[14:19:05] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: I welcome the correction

L736[14:19:09] <madmerlyn> also there's the whole idea that a lot of us humans fail to grasp, it's ok to not master everything you learn, don't have to be "fluent" in kOS, just have to know enough to make it work :)

L737[14:19:31] <EricPoehlsen> yeah it is kind of a time thing :) - maybe I'll better put some more C# in

L738[14:20:20] <ve2dmn> I sometime wish people would know the true origins of each word... then I would not have to explain why 'Chai Tea' is simply wrong

L739[14:20:32] <madmerlyn> tea tea

L740[14:20:49] <madmerlyn> Chai Tea is the ancient version of T.T

L741[14:21:53] <ve2dmn> Or that it's a 'croissant (de lune)' because it's a (moon) crescent

L742[14:21:56] <madmerlyn> I think one of the things i need to do with KSP though is now that I've pretty much established my interplanetary comm network, I need to stop multitasking so much and focus on individual missions

L743[14:22:48] <madmerlyn> finish my Mun colony so I can ship supplies and fuel from Mun surface instead of kerbin surface, do my Deep Space Station long duration mission with 4 kerbals, then ultimately do my Lockheed Martin proposal-inspired Duna mission

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L745[14:23:37] <EricPoehlsen> hmm it is a decision of how many kerbal years you want to spend - doing multiple missions one after the other

L746[14:24:00] <madmerlyn> well TBH since they don't age it's really not a big deal to wait around

L747[14:24:19] <EricPoehlsen> but juggling multiple missions with KAC is quiet possible

L748[14:24:33] <ve2dmn> install life support. you are then forced to do multiple refuel-resupply missions in parallel

L749[14:24:34] <madmerlyn> I mean look at what humanity has done in decades, but most of our big milestones were the result of focused mission planning, not a full spread

L750[14:24:44] <madmerlyn> I have life support

L751[14:24:47] <madmerlyn> that's what I mean though

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L753[14:25:19] <madmerlyn> right now I'm so focused on project A) that I'm not putting any mental energy into project B), then I switch to B and project A gets put on the back burner

L754[14:25:34] <EricPoehlsen> or add enough stuff - I am using USI LS in my current career- but I did not go beyond Duna with Kerbals in it yet

L755[14:25:43] <madmerlyn> I've got a half finished Mun base because I've been working on putting a probe on the way to Eeloo

L756[14:26:13] <EricPoehlsen> I am still struggling with the resource harvesting using MKS and Pathfinder

L757[14:26:15] <madmerlyn> I have USI-LS, MKS, all that fun stuff

L758[14:26:39] <madmerlyn> my Mun base really won't be hard to establish, I did a "short term habitation" mission where I put 3 kerbals on the Mun for 100 days

L759[14:26:56] <madmerlyn> I have deployed autonomous probes to 2 of the 4 sites I need to complete the supply chain

L760[14:27:07] <ve2dmn> I have space stations around the Mun and Kerbin. For science

L761[14:27:28] <madmerlyn> site 3 will be where the primary base is and won't need autonomous drills, and site 4 is only needed for silicates so I can manufacture specialized parts

L762[14:28:00] <madmerlyn> sites 1-3 are all on roughly the same longitude, 4 is low priority because it's way off on diff longitude and high latitude

L763[14:28:03] <EricPoehlsen> I got stations for science around mun minmus and kerbin

L764[14:28:39] <EricPoehlsen> with supplies and greenhouses they can host a crew for 1-3 years before resupply and crew replacement is needed

L765[14:28:47] <madmerlyn> apparently the next major USI release will reimplement orbital logistics btw

L766[14:28:57] <ve2dmn> I heard about that

L767[14:29:14] <madmerlyn> so my goal is to have the Mun supply fuel and supplies+fertilizer for interplanetary missions

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L770[14:29:37] <madmerlyn> so I can launch my components for interplanetary vessels to drydock without any wet weight

L771[14:29:46] <madmerlyn> and have a freighter from Mun come and load them up

L772[14:30:22] <madmerlyn> or I could even send interplanetary vessel to a stop-off at Munar orbit before leaving the system

L773[14:30:59] <ve2dmn> get and asteroid in kerbin orbit, mine it for profit?

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L775[14:31:23] <madmerlyn> getting asteroids has proven to be difficult, so far I've only caught a class A which is only 5t of minable mass

L776[14:31:25] <EricPoehlsen> are you using just the kerbol system or planning to go beyond it?

L777[14:31:30] <Supernovy> Evening, Gentlemen.

L778[14:31:45] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: I have USI ART. a class A is 6k tonnes

L779[14:31:59] <madmerlyn> yeah that makes them even more challenging heh

L780[14:32:08] <EricPoehlsen> I am currently using just OPM because KSS and Galileo are a little heavy on my system

L781[14:32:25] <madmerlyn> I might add OPM later

L782[14:32:31] <madmerlyn> next career perhaps

L783[14:33:02] <madmerlyn> before this current career, I've been playing for almost 2 years mind you, I hadn't done any missions, robotic or otherwise anywhere besides Kerbin system and Duna

L784[14:33:26] <madmerlyn> this career I've hit every primary except Eeloo already, and I've also visited Gilly, Ike, and Laythe on flybys

L785[14:34:47] <madmerlyn> did you fly any of my spaceplanes yet ve2dmn?

L786[14:34:48] <EricPoehlsen> last career (before using USI LS) I went to all planetary bodies with kerbals

L787[14:35:01] <madmerlyn> I'm getting ready to update them all, I've decided to re-engineer them without canards

L788[14:35:15] <ve2dmn> no, but I will as soon as I have the parts unlocked

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L790[14:35:43] <madmerlyn> my 36 kerbal one is going to be the first one that I certify without canards

L791[14:35:58] <madmerlyn> then I'll probably go to the base model Gallahad-L since it's my most used configuration

L792[14:36:58] <madmerlyn> MRS gives me some deployable wings, I wonder if I could make a good VTHL rocket :P

L793[14:37:57] <ve2dmn> I got distracted by my eshop credits

L794[14:41:38] <ve2dmn> also... why do Japanese website always look so... so...

L795[14:43:16] <ve2dmn> (example http://www.cir-ent.com/ )

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L798[14:49:24] <madmerlyn> what's ironic is so many Japanese websites look like they were made for internet in the 1990s

L799[14:49:35] <madmerlyn> and they have some of the fastest average connection speeds of anyone

L800[14:51:18] <ve2dmn> Clearly this is the best choice for my eshop credits: https://www.nintendo.com/en_CA/games/detail/suspension-railroad-simulator-wii-u

L801[14:54:17] <madmerlyn> I *just* got a Nintendo switch for my family this Christmas :)

L802[14:54:29] <madmerlyn> we've had daily Mario Kart matches hehe

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L804[14:56:09] <ve2dmn> I got the Mario+Rabbid game

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L806[14:56:21] <ve2dmn> it's pretty silly, but the gameplay is solid

L807[14:58:15] <lordcirth> So I hear

L808[14:59:08] <ve2dmn> The dash mechanic is kind of weird for someone used to xcom, but otherwise, it's Mario-Rabbid-xcom

L809[14:59:56] <ve2dmn> And luigi snipes with a vaccum cleaner

L810[15:06:28] <madmerlyn> going to get Mario Odyssey and Zelda at some point

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L813[15:24:34] <madmerlyn> so now I kinda want to look at designing a loop to do a gravity turn based on minimizing gravity and air drag losses, but with a lower altitude threshold so I don't end up going 2400m/s at 48km :P

L814[15:33:35] * darsie put a 150 kg micronode on his cheap rescue rocket to lower Ap: http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot68.png

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L816[15:37:34] <Mathuin> As ballast?

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L818[15:40:26] <lordcirth> $500k from a tourist run, in 2x scale :)

L819[15:40:56] <lordcirth> darsie, that gets into orbit?

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L821[15:49:05] <Draconiator> Wow, Lubuntu runs AMAZING on my netbook...I dunno why I didn't do this before.

L822[15:49:11] <darsie> lordcirth: Yes. And it get's one Kerbal down, too.

L823[15:49:22] <darsie> Mathuin: yes

L824[15:50:11] <darsie> But now my rocket hit the pod of the guy I wanted to rescue in the rendezvous and got damaged. Maybe I can land the Kerbal alone.

L825[15:50:21] <lordcirth> Draconiator, Lubuntu is excellent for old machines

L826[15:50:39] <Ezko_> what's lubuntu

L827[15:50:49] <Ezko_> as in what does the l stand for

L828[15:50:54] <Ezko_> light?

L829[15:50:55] <darsie> Mathuin: I needed something cheap and heavy that does not cause excessive air drag.

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L832[15:52:51] <ve2dmn> Ezko: LXDE

L833[15:52:52] <darsie> Like, I did the plane change spot on and counted how many seconds the separation of the encounter was at 0.0 km when I changed it with the lowes setting of thrust, then went half way back. Bang, collision.

L834[15:53:08] <darsie> lowest*

L835[15:53:36] <darsie> 0.1 km is safer.

L836[15:54:54] <darsie> Mathuin: If I fly lower the rocket explodes from overheat.

L837[15:55:19] <darsie> It always loses the fins, but they are expendable.

L838[15:57:21] <Draconiator> had to use 16.04 though because 17.10 has some weird video issue apparently.

L839[16:01:05] <darsie> Nope, couldn't decelerate enough with the jetpack to avoid deadly overheating.

L840[16:08:30] <ve2dmn> ok, so cleaning of my script is nearly done... now to write one which does automatic rendez-vous...

L841[16:14:33] <darsie> Yeah, I made it. Decelerate with jetpack from orbit to avoid burning up and land (on land) with jetpack.

L842[16:15:08] <darsie> Why don't they learn that in astronaut school and get me to rescue them? :)

L843[16:21:07] <ve2dmn> darsie: that presume they have school

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L845[16:23:01] <lordcirth> The kOS steering PID is making my rocket rotate back and forth while launching. It's kind of annoying even though it's not a problem atm

L846[16:23:26] <lordcirth> Not really sure what the correct variable to tune might be.

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L850[16:27:17] <Mathuin> darsie: how much fuel was left in that pack?

L851[16:31:59] <lordcirth> workaround: rotate rocket in VAB so kOS doesn't turn in the first palce

L852[16:34:03] <ve2dmn> lordcirth: porbably Ki

L853[16:35:43] <darsie> Mathuin: I started out with 4.05 cause I flew after the rocket that crashed in the precise rendezvous. On the ground I had 0.02 left. Had to start thrusting at the right altitude cause I was so low on fuel.

L854[16:35:46] <lordcirth> Suddenly KSP is staging twice when I press once. workaround: empty stage

L855[16:36:00] <Mathuin> Impressive.

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L857[16:38:00] <Guest48046> every time i try to run ksp it crashes

L858[16:38:06] <Guest48046> it refuses to rn

L859[16:38:10] <Guest48046> any ideas

L860[16:38:16] <Guest48046> i did updates and validated

L861[16:38:27] <darsie> Guest48046: It's a feature. Screen work pause. ;)

L862[16:38:42] <Guest48046> huh?

L863[16:38:58] <lordcirth> Guest48046, what does KSP.log say?

L864[16:39:37] <darsie> Don't you have interruptions form screen work to avoid fatigue or so? You must be from USA ;).

L865[16:39:54] <madmerlyn> install any new mods since the last time the game worked?

L866[16:40:08] <Guest48046> i havent played it in a while

L867[16:40:26] <madmerlyn> if you have out of date mods but a recently updated KSP that could be the problem

L868[16:40:27] <Guest48046> opened it for the first time in months i dont think i had any mods

L869[16:40:42] <Guest48046> ok where in my file directory are the mods saved

L870[16:40:47] <madmerlyn> check your gamedata folder, if there's anything in there besides a Squad folder you have mods

L871[16:40:48] <Guest48046> ill delete them and try that

L872[16:41:03] <madmerlyn> everything inside gamedata that's not the Squad folder

L873[16:41:10] <madmerlyn> do not delete Squad :P

L874[16:41:11] <Guest48046> lol had kerbal engineer and mech jeb

L875[16:41:42] <madmerlyn> yeah those were both probably crashing, good news if you want both of those they are updated for 1.3.1

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L878[16:42:17] <Guest48046> that worked!

L879[16:42:20] <Guest48046> thank you!

L880[16:42:39] <Guest48046> best gae ever was hoping it would come to work

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L883[16:49:59] <ve2dmn> darsie: never heard of those. You mean like stretch pauses?

L884[16:51:14] <darsie> ve2dmn: I guess so, yeah.

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L886[17:09:44] <lordcirth> Anyone know a good way / mod to teleport a Kerbal home? Someone snuck onto a rescue ship and it's too far to revert

L887[17:10:53] <JCB> hmm...

L888[17:11:00] <JCB> how long ago since last save?

L889[17:11:13] <JCB> you can still revert.. sorta, just not in game.

L890[17:11:53] <lordcirth> I have quicksaves, but I just finished the rendevouz in Mun orbit, I'd really rather not do it again

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L892[17:12:43] <darsie> You can jetpack back to Kerbin orbit.

L893[17:12:57] <JCB> oh... eh well other than manually editing save file?

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L895[17:13:02] <darsie> Then rescue the sneaker from there.

L896[17:13:13] <ve2dmn> lordcirth: put a capsule on the runway with Jeb. Save. Find Jeb in the save. take note of vessel ID. Remove Jeb from Capsule. Find Kerbal and put him where jeb was

L897[17:13:40] <JCB> lol.. body swap

L898[17:13:42] <lordcirth> What about hyperedit's Land function?

L899[17:13:57] <lordcirth> EVA and hyperedit to Kerbin?

L900[17:14:11] <JCB> let me guess.. jeb crammed himself into the ship before you launched it.. like usual?

L901[17:14:31] <JCB> sometimes times I hate the auto fill function, jeb always being first

L902[17:14:36] <ve2dmn> lordcirth: probably also possible

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L904[17:15:09] <lordcirth> JCB, to be honest, I forgot I was intending to do a rescue as well as tourism and filled the ship with crew for training

L905[17:15:15] <lordcirth> But the effect is the same

L906[17:15:30] <JCB> well.. other than sending a pickup ship... reverting back to pre-rendevouz.. manually editing save file...

L907[17:16:09] <lordcirth> Installed hyperedit, restarting KSP

L908[17:16:13] <JCB> I take it you have a very bad time at doing rendevouz?

L909[17:17:03] <lordcirth> Hmm? No, it's easy enough to be boring, actually

L910[17:17:50] <lordcirth> But I have $4.5M funds, so this should be the last of both rescue and tourism

L911[17:18:25] <JCB> Then, I'd say just revert back... I've had a few moments where I had to do that myself. One track I was doing got somewhat messed up pretty badly

L912[17:18:53] <JCB> eh.. could blame stupid game bugs and power loss at home..

L913[17:19:15] <Mathuin> Why not finish the training mission, and run the rescue mission next?

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L915[17:21:03] <lordcirth> Mathuin, because I already came within 2km, and thus the rescuee has hours of life support left

L916[17:21:41] <JCB> oh feh.. tac lifesupport...

L917[17:21:52] <lordcirth> No, Kerbalism

L918[17:22:22] <Mathuin> lordcirth: whoops

L919[17:22:37] <JCB> either case.. may as well jsut bite the bullet and redo.. better a boring run than struggling with a frustrating one

L920[17:22:42] <lordcirth> Actually, I think it's 5 days, but I'd still rather not

L921[17:22:57] <lordcirth> Oh, but the EC will run out, that's it

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L923[17:23:11] <ve2dmn> lordcirth: make the kerbal grab on for his dear life, rotate every 6h

L924[17:23:27] <lordcirth> lol

L925[17:23:42] <ve2dmn> once back to kerbin, leave jeb in orbit. He can take it for sneaking in

L926[17:24:16] <darsie> Jeb can jetpack back to Kerbin orbit.

L927[17:24:22] <darsie> Then rescue him from there.

L928[17:25:29] <JCB> kind of why I keep seperate save files outside of the game itself...

L929[17:26:30] <lordcirth> JCB, I track saves in git. Works great. I just don't want to revert.

L930[17:27:54] <JCB> then I guess just going to have to do things the hard, manual way, file edit

L931[17:28:28] <JCB> how long does it give kerbals on EVA?

L932[17:28:58] <darsie> irl something like 6 h.

L933[17:28:59] <ve2dmn> and not the 'Tintin' we-are-going-to-run-out-of-oxygen-way

L934[17:29:16] <JCB> ... 6 hours is half day on kerbin..

L935[17:29:24] <darsie> 1 day

L936[17:29:33] <JCB> er.. ya sorry. brain fart

L937[17:29:42] <darsie> irl fart ;)

L938[17:29:57] <JCB> more like, sleep schedual out of wack

L939[17:30:17] <JCB> turkey+left overs sorta messing with my guts a little.

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L941[17:46:02] <JCB> hm.....

L942[17:46:20] <JCB> ugh.. hate second guessing myself

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L948[18:13:13] <madmerlyn> why is xchat worse than the kiwi web app

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L951[18:14:49] <lordcirth> madmerlyn, wasn't xchat replaced by hexchat ages ago? That's what I'm using

L952[18:15:19] <madmerlyn> I dunno, I just have Xchat on my arch install at home heh

L953[18:15:29] <madmerlyn> let us consult the Pacman

L954[18:15:42] <Alanonzander> xchat was encumbered by copyrights for a long long time (don't know it it ever got worked out) making it almost impossible to modernize. Hexchat was the result.

L955[18:16:10] <madmerlyn> installing hexchat after a general package update :P

L956[18:16:35] <madmerlyn> btw new AVP dropped yesterday

L957[18:16:45] <madmerlyn> one of my screenshots made it into his loading screen release :D

L958[18:19:26] <lordcirth> AVP?

L959[18:19:44] <madmerlyn> Astronomer's Visual Pack

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L963[18:24:37] <Draconiator> hmmm...incandescent lightbulbs are getting rare....they never used to be so high in price.

L964[18:25:22] <lordcirth> Draconiator, why do you still need one?

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L966[18:28:35] <madmerlyn> ok I've got Hexchat roughly where I like it

L967[18:28:51] <madmerlyn> wish I could get rid of all the grey UI elements, but better than nothing

L968[18:29:10] <ve2dmn> I use kvirc

L969[18:29:22] <umaxtu> theres a way to install gtk themes for hexchat on windows

L970[18:30:01] <lordcirth> I think gtk themes are normally global on Linux

L971[18:30:41] <umaxtu> I just assumed Windows silly me.

L972[18:31:42] <lordcirth> He mentioned pacman earlier

L973[18:32:11] <madmerlyn> I did I did

L974[18:32:14] <lordcirth> *sigh* I just tried pinging a random website 3 times, and the results are: 197ms,270ms,lost

L975[18:32:35] <lordcirth> I just want useful internet

L976[18:33:17] <Alanonzander> what kind ?

L977[18:33:40] <lordcirth> DSL, 10Mb/s down, 1Mb/s up ( supposedly )

L978[18:33:52] <Alanonzander> 10MB VDSL... nice

L979[18:34:11] <umaxtu> madmerlyn: you use a gui application on Arch? isn't that illegal or something? :P

L980[18:34:39] <lordcirth> XD

L981[18:34:41] <madmerlyn> uh.. no. It's 2017, having no GUI on a desktop would be asinine ;)

L982[18:34:53] <madmerlyn> my server has no GUI on it though, and is headless proper.

L983[18:35:01] <lordcirth> I will admit that when using Arch I used irssi

L984[18:35:04] <Mathuin> I have Arch on my Chromebook. Chromium works, Atom doesn't.

L985[18:35:15] <Mathuin> I also use irssi through a screen session.

L986[18:35:47] <madmerlyn> I do have transparency setup on my hexchat though so I can see what's going on in discord beneath it :P

L987[18:35:54] <umaxtu> I'm just messing with you. I love Arch. (Though I have to confess I'm cheating on it with Fedora right now)

L988[18:35:59] <lordcirth> It was at least a month in before I thought to install a graphical file manager. I wanted to see video thumbnails, so I installed Thunar. Great FM.

L989[18:36:07] <lordcirth> madmerlyn, that sounds terribly confusing

L990[18:36:45] <madmerlyn> nah, the KSP reddit discord is a pretty young crowd so I mostly don't engage unless it's like posting mission pictures or something

L991[18:37:02] <madmerlyn> apparently the average age of an IRC user is a lot higher than a discord one :P

L992[18:37:08] <lordcirth> no, really?

L993[18:37:13] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: imagine that

L994[18:37:14] <Alanonzander> heh

L995[18:37:21] <madmerlyn> ok so hexchat, how do I make the stupid channel pane go away, it's wasting real estate

L996[18:37:44] <lordcirth> Drag the separator to the edge

L997[18:37:54] <madmerlyn> lol so just cover it up

L998[18:37:59] <madmerlyn> k that works I suppose

L999[18:38:45] <umaxtu> if anyone cares https://imgur.com/zZGSS1h

L1000[18:38:45] <kmath> https://i.imgur.com/zZGSS1h.png

L1001[18:38:47] <madmerlyn> I might have to do some more advanced configuration with hexchat, like some conky stuff or something

L1002[18:39:02] <ve2dmn> I wonder what's the average age for slack

L1003[18:39:06] <madmerlyn> that's a tiny screenshot

L1004[18:39:13] <umaxtu> ?

L1005[18:39:41] <madmerlyn> so you run IRC from terminal?

L1006[18:39:56] <umaxtu> on my laptop yeah

L1007[18:39:59] <madmerlyn> with angry cartoon wallpapers behind it?

L1008[18:40:00] <madmerlyn> :D

L1009[18:40:17] <madmerlyn> my wallpaper is the death star heh

L1010[18:40:32] <Mathuin> I run IRC from terminal, my wallpaper is a constantly-updated image collage from that Japanese satellite.

L1011[18:40:34] <lordcirth> +1 for tmux

L1012[18:40:38] <umaxtu> I was watching a cooptional animated thing on youtube in fullscreen

L1013[18:40:45] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: my wallpaper is Chrono Trigger

L1014[18:41:03] <umaxtu> lordcirth: I barely have any idea what I'm doing with it.

L1015[18:41:03] <madmerlyn> ok I need to update all my mods and jump in KSP

L1016[18:41:18] <madmerlyn> have I mentioned I don't use CKAN because CKAN on Linux sucked really bad last time I used it?

L1017[18:41:26] <lordcirth> madmerlyn, it's fine now

L1018[18:41:39] <madmerlyn> does it still run in mono?

L1019[18:41:47] <ve2dmn> of course

L1020[18:41:51] <madmerlyn> yuuuuuck

L1021[18:41:56] <ve2dmn> :D

L1022[18:42:01] <Mathuin> CKAN does suck less on Linux.

L1023[18:42:16] <Mathuin> There's code that lets you build a debian, and I have a Dockerfile that works for it as well.

L1024[18:42:49] <ve2dmn> apt-get install 'a debian'

L1025[18:42:50] <JCB> the day when KSP is run on a phone.... we can talk about distractions while doing just about anything

L1026[18:43:29] <madmerlyn> hehe we've already established I'm on arch, .deb files aren't my preferred method of packaging

L1027[18:44:13] <umaxtu> its not in the AUR?

L1028[18:44:24] <madmerlyn> CKAN? Maybe.

L1029[18:44:39] <madmerlyn> but that doesn't mean it's not just a garbage script that installs it in wine or something like that

L1030[18:44:47] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: didn't you hear? we are in a post-package world where you run everything in Docker in the cloud

L1031[18:44:49] <madmerlyn> lots of questionable packages in AUR because well.. it's AUR :P

L1032[18:45:08] <umaxtu> its in there. I just checked

L1033[18:45:28] <madmerlyn> yaourt says my CKAN is 1.22.6-1

L1034[18:45:35] <madmerlyn> how old is that, 18 months? :P

L1035[18:46:09] <umaxtu> I think its current

L1036[18:46:27] <madmerlyn> lol >yaourt -Ss ckan: aur/ckan, aur/ckan-git, aur/fortune-mod-rickandmorty

L1037[18:46:36] <madmerlyn> oh I see, ckan is in the middle of rickandmorty

L1038[18:46:49] <madmerlyn> "Fortune quotes from Rick and Morty. GOTTA GET SCHWIFTY

L1039[18:46:51] <madmerlyn> ok I'm installing that

L1040[18:47:27] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: why not install poney-say while you are at it :P

L1041[18:48:09] <madmerlyn> holy crap there are a lot of fortune packages

L1042[18:48:27] <madmerlyn> apparently getting quotes in your terminal is a really popular thing that people don't just write curl scripts for?

L1043[18:48:53] <lordcirth> The quotes have to be assembled somewhere

L1044[18:54:15] <ve2dmn> for those wondering: https://github.com/erkin/ponysay

L1045[18:54:35] * madmerlyn facepalms

L1046[18:54:58] <JCB> ....

L1047[18:55:47] <ve2dmn> I mean... the guy did create a utility to convert any ascii art into 'something-say'...

L1048[18:55:49] <ve2dmn> https://github.com/maandree/util-say

L1049[18:55:59] <madmerlyn> oh right, I was going to make a small MM script to add USI tether to all command modules

L1050[19:10:24] <ve2dmn> I was wondering why my station was moving by itself...

L1051[19:10:52] <ve2dmn> somehow, loading the station triggered loading the boot script for the kOS CPU

L1052[19:14:49] <madmerlyn> I'm rewriting my spaceplane script now

L1053[19:16:18] <JCB> you know.. they joke about the ant engine in game... yet it does surpsing well with a probe core and a couple of oscar tanks.

L1054[19:16:20] <lordcirth> ve2dmn, unpacking a craft always triggers kOS boot

L1055[19:16:37] <lordcirth> JCB, it's great for the last stage of tiny things, yeah.

L1056[19:16:46] <lordcirth> Sometimes I do an Ant + 2,3,4 spiders

L1057[19:17:00] <madmerlyn> I never use ant

L1058[19:17:08] <madmerlyn> if I want a 20 minute burn I'm going ion

L1059[19:17:22] <lordcirth> madmerlyn, if it's 20m, then you should have used a Spark

L1060[19:17:30] <madmerlyn> exactly.

L1061[19:17:31] <lordcirth> Ants are for tiny craft

L1062[19:17:56] <ve2dmn> lordcirth: I did not know that... I guess I'll add 'shutdown.' at the end of all my scripts

L1063[19:17:56] <madmerlyn> if it has an oscar it's not that tiny :P

L1064[19:18:07] <madmerlyn> do they have any smaller stock tanks than oscar?

L1065[19:18:11] <JCB> coulda used spark but then your putting more weight into the engine portion..

L1066[19:18:24] <JCB> I'd probably spark if I need the extra twr for landing somewhere

L1067[19:18:50] <lordcirth> madmerlyn, there is the tiny toroidal tank, that's it

L1068[19:19:16] <madmerlyn> isn't the toroidal bigger than oscar?

L1069[19:19:37] <JCB> huh... with two tanks, ant engine, was only 5 minute burn to mun orbit

L1070[19:19:59] <JCB> its bigger by only 50 percent more I think?

L1071[19:20:16] <JCB> oscar+toroidal = the first FL tank

L1072[19:21:00] <JCB> ... I think...

L1073[19:21:02] <lordcirth> Apparently it is 150% the Oscar-B's size

L1074[19:22:57] <JCB> ok ya.. 18 fuel on oscar, 27 turoid, 45 FL-T100

L1075[19:26:26] <JCB> also.. wish I knew about the aboslute/relative offset setting earlier... >_>

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L1077[19:28:07] <lordcirth> JCB, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVsBNzJ97I8

L1078[19:28:07] <kmath> YouTube - 7 BASIC TIPS & TRICKS to get better at building stuff in Kerbal Space Program (KSP Tutorial)

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L1080[19:28:52] <JCB> its ok.. thanks though. Found out about it through some other video

L1081[19:30:59] <ve2dmn> the lack of ability to go from 1 to 4 and then from 4 to 1 again annoys me to no end

L1082[19:31:04] <lordcirth> There's a lot of good stuff in there that I didn't know about

L1083[19:31:12] <lordcirth> ve2dmn, what do you mean?

L1084[19:31:26] <ve2dmn> 1 quad stack adapter

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L1086[19:31:45] <ve2dmn> 4 science jr

L1087[19:31:50] <ve2dmn> then another adapter

L1088[19:32:07] <ve2dmn> only 1 out of 4 on the second adapter will be connected

L1089[19:32:49] <lordcirth> ve2dmn, oh, right. Yeah KSP stores parts as a tree.

L1090[19:32:50] <JCB> ya.. when you reverse the stack... 4 into one..

L1091[19:33:02] <JCB> its just how the game works in only being able to branch out, instead of together

L1092[19:33:04] <lordcirth> Can't have loops

L1093[19:33:12] <ve2dmn> JCB: if you put docking ports it works, but it's not elegent

L1094[19:33:34] <JCB> heh.. depends on how you do it.. ports aren't exactly strong either

L1095[19:33:40] <ve2dmn> I don't want loop, I just want struts

L1096[19:33:47] <JCB> game complains too when you use ports as decouplers...

L1097[19:34:18] <JCB> my six pack tourist rocket.. I just put stuff on to a centeral spine..

L1098[19:34:27] <JCB> er six.. 12 pack..

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L1100[19:34:57] <darsie> Even cheaper "rescue" rocket: http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot74.png . Just to get control of the stranded and let it deorbit and land with the jetpack. Hot Kerbal during deorbit :) http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot73.png

L1101[19:36:32] <darsie> Is there a fix for the tilt of rockets when controls at launch get ready?

L1102[19:36:42] <darsie> That's annoying.

L1103[19:36:50] <darsie> Messes up my launch angle.

L1104[19:37:12] <JCB> depends on the tilt.. is it standing on just the egines?

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L1106[19:38:18] <darsie> No, on a stability enhancer as in the pic.

L1107[19:39:07] <JCB> eh.. looks like it was just placed that way.

L1108[19:39:10] <darsie> That one's at 15 deg but may get down to 20 deg after the tilt.

L1109[19:39:18] <JCB> oh..

L1110[19:39:25] <JCB> put a launch clamp on either side

L1111[19:39:33] <darsie> yeah. But want to save money :)

L1112[19:39:38] <JCB> they can hold up, but they do bed easy

L1113[19:39:42] <JCB> you get them back after

L1114[19:39:46] <JCB> I believe..

L1115[19:39:52] <darsie> checking ...

L1116[19:40:02] <JCB> sides.. they only 200

L1117[19:40:16] <JCB> ugh you really /that/ broke in game?

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L1119[19:40:59] <madmerlyn> testing no canard design on the full size 55t capacity Gallahad now

L1120[19:43:27] <darsie> JCB: Yeah, I got it bck.

L1121[19:43:47] <madmerlyn> yeah.. that didn't work so well

L1122[19:45:58] <JCB> ugh ok.. so .. 5 engines might be a bit too much for this Mk1 pod launcher... trying 3..

L1123[19:46:29] <JCB> looks like doing somethign similar to mercury-atlas launch minus vernier engines mid body

L1124[19:47:13] <darsie> JCB: Ok, there is still a bit of a jerk at launch, but less.

L1125[19:50:35] <JCB> with an angle like that.. I'd just put them to the sides.

L1126[19:50:55] <darsie> Where the fins are now?

L1127[19:51:08] <darsie> I need the fins there.

L1128[19:51:26] <darsie> I could attach them to the fins, but that's ugly.

L1129[19:51:31] <JCB> also... weird I'm getting better preformance out of my booster when take away fuel in the design...

L1130[19:51:44] <JCB> well ok maybe not so weird.. just means I initially had too much fuel, slow launch

L1131[19:51:49] <darsie> Wait, taking out fuel of solid fuel boosters ...?

L1132[19:51:57] <JCB> also cutting down two engines makes it more effiecent

L1133[19:52:06] <JCB> not using solid boosters

L1134[19:52:17] <JCB> doing something of a mercury-atlas design

L1135[19:52:24] <darsie> Ohh, wow, there are solid controls. Fuel and thrust limiter.

L1136[19:52:36] <darsie> SRB controls

L1137[19:52:39] <JCB> it uses a 1.5 stage design.

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L1139[19:53:23] <darsie> I won't need ballast any more :).

L1140[19:54:25] <darsie> Why didn't anyone tell me when I said I used a micronode as ballast.

L1141[20:02:47] <madmerlyn> if you clip vernors completely inside a nose do they still work?

L1142[20:03:45] <Black_Eagle> parking a trailer in the dark is fun

L1143[20:05:46] <JCB> not sure...

L1144[20:05:59] <JCB> I know tail fins don't work if stuck behind jet engines..

L1145[20:06:50] <Black_Eagle> *except rapier

L1146[20:11:35] <Draconiator> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQbZ-a8xn0U - yep I recorded it.

L1147[20:11:35] <kmath> YouTube - Acer Aspire One from 2008 loads up Lubuntu

L1148[20:13:20] <lordcirth> darsie, you never right-clicked on an SRB?

L1149[20:13:45] <madmerlyn> wait till darsie finds out about advanced tweakables :O

L1150[20:14:23] <lordcirth> Draconiator, if you want to obsessively optimize, try running 'systemd-analyze blame' and 'systemd-analyze critical-chain'

L1151[20:15:12] <madmerlyn> wtf man-db.service, why you so slow.

L1152[20:15:31] <Alanonzander> gzip and gunzip of man files is very slow

L1153[20:16:30] <lordcirth> man-db runs on a schedule, so it should only run on boot if you haven't rebooted recently

L1154[20:17:27] <lordcirth> Also, not everything 'blame' shows actually occurred during boot

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L1157[20:27:57] <madmerlyn> so no canard Gallahad-L can do 18t to orbit easily, but it struggles with 22.5t on takeoff

L1158[20:28:14] <madmerlyn> I'm thinking I might have to adjust the engine configuration to get payload capacity back up into mid 20s

L1159[20:31:14] <JCB> I'm guessing because you have more weight up front, control surfaces can't put enough force to rotate the craft

L1160[20:31:52] <JCB> maybe worth seeing if you can get your payload area centered over the CoM area a bit more.

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L1169[20:50:27] <darsie> lordcirth: If I did I forgot.

L1170[20:50:45] <darsie> madmerlyn: Is that a mod?

L1171[20:50:53] <lordcirth> darsie, no, it's a setting

L1172[20:51:02] <lordcirth> They hid some of the stuff to be less scary

L1173[20:51:06] <darsie> ok

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L1176[21:06:18] <JCB> scary... overwhelming... eh

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L1199[23:08:21] <cringe> ISS Urine Tank Level: 58%

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L1201[23:11:26] <TheKosmonaut> cringe: when it goes down is it because they're recycling it back into water

L1202[23:11:46] <cringe> more than just water

L1203[23:11:57] <cringe> also air

L1204[23:12:07] <JCB> soon.. it'll have beer in it

L1205[23:12:15] <JCB> or.. used beer...

L1206[23:12:27] <cringe> beer is a beer, in space

L1207[23:12:46] <ve2dmn> space beer

L1208[23:13:06] <JCB> not so sure I like the idea of fizzy water or alcohol in space...

L1209[23:13:19] <JCB> gas bubbles might get confused with lack of gravity

L1210[23:13:39] <cringe> also, better out the attic than out the basement

L1211[23:15:04] <cringe> no jimmy neutron fans i guess

L1212[23:15:44] <TheKosmonaut> JCB: but there's no German capsule. Need more Astro Germans for iss beer

L1213[23:15:46] <JCB> post holidays .. I'm guessing people still out of sorts.

L1214[23:15:56] <TheKosmonaut> They got Italians up there and an espresso machine

L1215[23:16:54] <JCB> ugh.. I keep wanting to record something but... a little unsettled on this rocket's preformance... stage fright I think?

L1216[23:19:04] <TheKosmonaut> Your rocket isn't up to my arbitrary standards!

L1217[23:19:11] * TheKosmonaut smashes the dislike button

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L1225[23:42:46] <JCB> blep...

L1226[23:46:48] <Gasher[work]> last workday

L1227[23:46:49] <Gasher[work]> !