OCLogs: 2017-12-27.log

Stuff goes here

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L2[00:02:20] *** mikeprimm is now known as zz_mikeprimm

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L4[00:11:23] <this_guy> And now I have a different problem. When flying a rocket the roll and yaw now need to be switched

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L6[00:16:09] <this_guy> Oh hey theres a mod. Epic win

L7[00:33:29] <Japa> I tend to just use joystick for plane and keyboard for rocket

L8[00:34:26] <mabus> wake me up when there is a flat earth mod

L9[00:34:50] <Althego> hehe

L10[00:35:23] <mabus> just turn the real gravity off and have kerbin accellerate 1g upwards

L11[00:36:52] * UmbralRaptor has questions involving centrifugal force, transverse force, and coriolis force.

L12[00:37:21] <umaxtu> don't we all?

L13[00:38:12] <ConductorCat> :3

L14[00:39:51] <Gasher[work]> mabus, flat kerbin mod is called version 0.1 lol

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L17[00:45:54] * UmbralRaptor meoΩs at ConductorCat

L18[00:46:46] <this_guy> WOOOT success

L19[00:47:47] <UmbralRaptor> \o/

L20[00:51:21] <TheKosmonaut> Woo

L21[00:51:25] <TheKosmonaut> Payday

L22[00:51:27] <TheKosmonaut> Boo

L23[00:51:29] <TheKosmonaut> Bills

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L25[00:53:41] <UmbralRaptor> Latest check means I can make rent. \o/

L26[00:55:30] <TheKosmonaut> My rent has an extra few hundred tacked on because I need to extend the insurance outside of my original end date :/

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L29[00:56:30] <TheKosmonaut> So I am either going to continue being in Japan or I am gonna have to move out by February

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L31[00:57:46] <UmbralRaptor> =\

L32[01:00:02] <TheKosmonaut> I don't really mind one way or another. But visa processes are a chore

L33[01:00:40] <Gasher[work]> :|

L34[01:03:25] <TheKosmonaut> Guess I'll be working in South East Asia again. Lol

L35[01:03:54] <TheKosmonaut> Singapore, Cambodia, etc

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L39[01:08:10] <JCB> hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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L41[01:11:20] <TheKosmonaut> JCB: what frequency are you humming at

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L43[01:17:20] <UmbralRaptor> 440 Hz

L44[01:17:40] <UmbralRaptor> For nefarious porpoises.

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L48[01:22:17] <JCB> just pondering... streaming some random sandbox stuff

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L62[02:26:00] <JCB> mmmmmm... oh candy -distracted

L63[02:26:28] <JCB> can't decide if being up late is a good thing or bad now

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L97[05:52:04] <Fluburtur> I was contacted by my old mechanics teacher, wants me to come play bass in his band

L98[05:53:48] <TheKosmonaut> https://i.redd.it/6a1e49wbhe601.jpg

L99[05:53:57] <Fluburtur> https://78.media.tumblr.com/fa47bb70138dc3a868a9bafbbd3cb95a/tumblr_p1gx2hAiQd1vnq1cro1_500.gif

L100[05:54:13] <TheKosmonaut> A bit of an exaggeration but this is why I can't stand NDT

L101[05:54:20] <Althego> hehe

L102[05:54:29] <Fluburtur> same

L103[05:54:54] <Fluburtur> isn't he a theorical physicist or something?

L104[05:56:46] <TheKosmonaut> Astrophysics, physical cosmology iirf

L105[05:57:32] <Fluburtur> I remember in a video of smarter every day when he was like "a heli cannot fly if the engine dies it will jsut fall" I guess he was kinda playing a role but still

L106[05:57:50] <Fluburtur> and he could tell me about how to cook food but I would still trust my grandma more

L107[05:57:57] <TheKosmonaut> He's definitely smart... But he makes a lot of blunders on Twitter

L108[05:58:31] <TheKosmonaut> Like when he said that bb8 rolling on the sand in Star wars was physically impossible

L109[05:58:40] <Fluburtur> ehhh

L110[05:59:00] <Fluburtur> don't talk about stuff outside your area of expertise neil

L111[05:59:14] <TheKosmonaut> Then the Star wars people in the prop Dept sent him a video of the remote bb8 rolling on the dunes

L112[05:59:18] <Fluburtur> you are a physicist but clearly not a mechanical engineer

L113[05:59:32] <Althego> every famous scientist does that. and it is well known that they all fail when they do

L114[06:01:41] <Fluburtur> he does that pretty often

L115[06:06:29] <Mat2ch> TheKosmonaut: It may depend on the sand

L116[06:06:41] <Mat2ch> and the weight of a BB8

L117[06:06:53] <APlayer> What's a bb8?

L118[06:07:12] <APlayer> (I have not watched Star Wars, so please don't kill me)

L119[06:07:15] <Mat2ch> sand can be rock hard, but also like a fluid

L120[06:07:21] <Fluburtur> a ball version of r2d2

L121[06:07:37] <Mat2ch> APlayer: I don't watch Star Wars either. But it's a rolling ball with a head that stays on top ;)

L122[06:07:37] <APlayer> R2D2 is that robot assistant thingy?

L123[06:07:44] <Fluburtur> yeah

L124[06:07:45] <Mat2ch> yeah

L125[06:07:50] <Fluburtur> that looks like a trash can

L126[06:07:51] <APlayer> Alright, got it

L127[06:08:45] <Mat2ch> and if the ball has a very smooth surface and is heavy and the sand is very fine grain BB8 might really be stuck there

L128[06:09:16] <APlayer> And why exactly would it not be able to roll on sand?

L129[06:09:18] <Fluburtur> he does have a lot of panels everywhere

L130[06:10:20] <Mat2ch> APlayer: because the sand could act as ball bearing

L131[06:10:29] <APlayer> Ah

L132[06:10:42] <Fluburtur> I xould be more worried about wet sand sticking to it

L133[06:10:49] <Mat2ch> mud. :D

L134[06:10:51] <APlayer> Well, I guess that's called "traction" and a whole field of science on its own?

L135[06:11:11] <Fluburtur> yeah

L136[06:11:21] <Fluburtur> we were supposed to learn about that in mechanics but never did

L137[06:12:19] <APlayer> So a rough surface would probably rather be able to roll on sand than a smooth surface

L138[06:12:54] <APlayer> But it also depends on how the sand "flows" in itself and the friction force between the surface and the sand

L139[06:13:01] <Fluburtur> https://blenderartists.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=415466&d=1450685852

L140[06:14:02] <APlayer> Looks pretty smooth to me

L141[06:14:18] <Fluburtur> yeah bit at the joint between panels and stuff

L142[06:14:28] <Fluburtur> I mean as long as it doesn't sing too low in the sand it should be fine

L143[06:14:48] <APlayer> But still, the panels could have any sort of properties

L144[06:15:20] <APlayer> I don't think a normal steel ball of this shape could roll on normal sand, but given special circumstances, why not?

L145[06:16:11] <Gasher[work]> steel ball yeah, but sphere :)

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L147[06:16:29] <APlayer> Given that such a thing would probably have been manufactured with extra traction (that's it's main propagation method, isn't it?) and Star Wars is science fiction, the panels could be made from any sort of grippy material

L148[06:16:48] <Fluburtur> rubber paint?

L149[06:17:05] <APlayer> Something like that

L150[06:17:11] <Fluburtur> but it looks and sounds very metallic in the movies

L151[06:17:13] <APlayer> Though it has to be durable

L152[06:17:19] <Fluburtur> like only a thin layer of orange paint at most

L153[06:17:59] <APlayer> Perhaps it is able to move its panels slightly in such a way that they scoop up sand?

L154[06:18:06] <Fluburtur> yeah

L155[06:18:11] <Fluburtur> that would probably do it

L156[06:18:25] <Fluburtur> then it would be full of sand

L157[06:19:19] <APlayer> Well, of course it would not allow the sand to actually get inside

L158[06:20:02] <TheKosmonaut> I hate sand

L159[06:20:06] <TheKosmonaut> It's coarse

L160[06:20:14] <TheKosmonaut> And it gets everywhere

L161[06:20:20] * APlayer gives TheKosmonaut fine sand

L162[06:20:56] * TheKosmonaut floats a pear over to APlayer

L163[06:21:17] <sandbox> we used to be lumnous beings, now we're just crude matter

L164[06:22:22] <TheKosmonaut> sandbox: get out of here with your non-prequel memes

L165[06:22:24] <APlayer> Last time I was on a camping place with lots of sand around was at least 6 years ago... Our camping chairs still have some sand here and there in them

L166[06:22:40] <Gasher[work]> i remember there was a simple example of ball rolling on plane and why resistant to its rolling is measured in meters

L167[06:23:32] * TheKosmonaut is ready to communicate entirely in prequel meme

L168[06:23:36] <Mat2ch> TheKosmonaut: I love sand. But only when I'm only wearing shorts and there's a shower nearby ;)

L169[06:24:02] <sandbox> they have this thing in star wars called a repulsorlift

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L171[06:24:34] <Fluburtur> I guess the 50cm ball is too small to house a repulsor

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L173[06:26:57] <TheKosmonaut> It's mostly that Neil can be compared to Chief librarian Jedi Master Jocasta Nu

L174[06:27:10] <TheKosmonaut> If it's not in the archives, it therefore didn't exist

L175[06:27:29] <TheKosmonaut> This pridr was the downfall of the Jedi

L176[06:27:33] <TheKosmonaut> It will be his too

L177[06:28:06] * TheKosmonaut goes in search of more prequel references

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L179[06:33:01] <TheKosmonaut> Deddly: hello there!

L180[06:33:13] <Deddly> Hey ho

L181[06:35:25] <APlayer> !iH

L182[06:39:21] <Fluburtur> yo ded

L183[06:39:33] <Deddly> Yoyo

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L185[06:44:18] <Ezko_> HI DEDDLY

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L187[06:45:11] <Deddly> Alrighty there Ezko_

L188[06:46:08] <Deddly> Does anyone here play Subspace Continuum?

L189[06:49:54] <TheKosmonaut> Deddly: what's that

L190[06:50:10] <APlayer> Is it edible?

L191[06:50:59] <Deddly> Oh guys, you are missing out. It's one of the first ever online multiplayer games

L192[06:51:20] <Deddly> Released 20 years ago

L193[06:51:27] <Deddly> http://store.steampowered.com/app/352700/Subspace_Continuum/

L194[06:51:38] <Deddly> I've never come across something so addictive.

L195[06:51:53] <Deddly> As they say: easy to learn, but takes a lifetime to master.

L196[06:51:53] <TheKosmonaut> Oh. That game

L197[06:52:00] <TheKosmonaut> Like PvP asteroids

L198[06:52:21] <Althego> tried factorio? some say it is really addictive

L199[06:52:26] <Deddly> Yeah, you could put it that way

L200[06:52:34] <Truga> more like cracktorio

L201[06:52:44] <Ezko_> heh that's funny Truga

L202[06:52:51] <Deddly> KSP players seem to appreciate a game with longevity, so I thought maybe there would be some players here

L203[06:53:12] <Deddly> I've been playing that for 16 years, on and off

L204[06:53:27] <Ezko_> strange that i've never heard of it before

L205[06:53:47] <Ezko_> well gotta try some time

L206[06:54:07] <Althego> my last n2o canister is is empty now. gone. along with the cream that was in it

L207[06:54:09] <Deddly> Just be aware that each zone is like a completely different game

L208[06:54:17] <Truga> factorio is basically

L209[06:54:27] <Truga> "hmm it's friday evening let's make a factory"

L210[06:54:38] <Truga> "what do you mean it's monday morning"

L211[06:54:55] <Fluburtur> Althego did you make a rocket with it

L212[06:54:57] <Althego> what do you mean flash gordon approaching

L213[06:55:05] <Althego> no, i ate it

L214[06:55:20] <Fluburtur> no2 is really good oxy

L215[06:55:25] <APlayer> LOL, it /is/ edible

L216[06:55:34] <Truga> as a bonus, someone made a mod for factorio that converts rocket parts you make in factorio to extraplanetary launchpads rocket parts

L217[06:55:35] <Deddly> Subspace Continuum is more like: "Damnit I'll get that guy this time. OK, THIS time. Wait, I know what I'm doing wrong. OK, THIS time. One more try. How did he do that??"

L218[06:55:37] <Althego> n2o

L219[06:55:44] <APlayer> It's N2O, though

L220[06:56:19] <Althego> not written on it anywhere that it uses n2o. but to my best of knowledge cream uses that for gas

L221[06:56:32] <Ezko_> what food should i make today

L222[06:56:38] <APlayer> I thought they used N2

L223[06:56:56] <Fluburtur> I should buy stuff from amzon and make a rocket with it

L224[06:56:57] <Althego> maybe latley it is n2

L225[06:57:03] <Fluburtur> parafin, n2o, some tubes

L226[06:58:32] <APlayer> In Germany, I often see Nitrogen as "Treibmittel", and someone please find the correct English translation for that: https://www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch/uebersetzung/treibmittel.html

L227[06:59:11] <Althego> hybrid rocket, acrylic tube, with n2o oxidizer

L228[06:59:13] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLPWqCMb7DE

L229[06:59:13] <kmath> YouTube - Hybrid rocket engine with acrylic and gaseous oxygen

L230[07:00:29] <Althego> nice thing is, you can see the flame

L231[07:03:16] <APlayer> So he basically made a rocket engine out of pure rocket fuel?

L232[07:03:27] * APlayer approves

L233[07:03:30] <Althego> hehe

L234[07:03:39] <Althego> several similar engines on youtube

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L236[07:05:26] <Fluburtur> aerospike nozzles are the best thing you might want

L237[07:05:40] <Althego> there must be a reason nobody uses them

L238[07:05:47] <Fluburtur> very hard to cool

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L240[07:06:50] <Fluburtur> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1f3P3yWPk

L241[07:06:50] <kmath> YouTube - Hybrid Rocket Motor Aerospike Nozzle Tests

L242[07:07:10] <Althego> yes this is many years old

L243[07:07:20] <Althego> some guy built one

L244[07:07:22] <Fluburtur> yeah

L245[07:07:28] <Althego> but not even elon musk tries to use them

L246[07:07:33] <Fluburtur> but doesn't change the fact that cooling an aerospike is hard

L247[07:08:11] <APlayer> LOL Althego, this is a good point

L248[07:08:12] <JCB> ceramic spike..

L249[07:08:23] <Althego> graphite

L250[07:08:33] <Fluburtur> I guess

L251[07:08:39] <JCB> think better luck with linear spikes?

L252[07:09:00] <Fluburtur> someone give me stuff to build a graphite/ceramic nozzle and I might build and engine

L253[07:09:20] <Althego> just build a really small one from a pencil :)

L254[07:09:23] <Ezko_> what about a granite nozzle?!

L255[07:09:28] <Ezko_> we have plenty of granite here!

L256[07:09:31] <Althego> that would melt

L257[07:11:33] <Althego> ok, with the usual regenerative cooling it doesnt need to be graphite

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L259[07:12:19] <APlayer> Doesn't graphite on its own burn?

L260[07:12:45] <JCB> careful with the cooling system.. was talk about temprature diferentials in metals and joints.

L261[07:13:22] <Althego> obviously the cooling of the nozzle alone is worth several books

L262[07:13:48] <Althego> rocket science is easy. rocket engineering is hard

L263[07:14:35] <Gasher[work]> i have tungsten, but a small piece

L264[07:15:08] <Althego> also a really hard material, not really workable with the usual methods

L265[07:15:23] <Gasher[work]> what

L266[07:15:50] <Gasher[work]> that piece i have is alloy and it is machinable

L267[07:16:04] <Althego> "In its raw form, tungsten is a hard steel-grey metal that is often brittle and hard to work."

L268[07:16:33] <Althego> ok it also says if it is very pure you can do stuff with it

L269[07:16:42] <APlayer> Tungsten on its own is brittle, you need to mix stuff into it to make it softer

L270[07:16:52] <Gasher[work]> it's not raw, as i said it is alloyed but i don't know which alloy exactly it is

L271[07:17:19] <Gasher[work]> i guess it would be the one that gets harder after temperature treatment

L272[07:17:49] <APlayer> I wonder, though, if you coat tungsten with ceramic on the outside, wouldn't that make a rather strong vessel to contain, say, a reactor core?

L273[07:18:05] <JCB> just 3d print it..

L274[07:18:10] <JCB> oh wait... doh

L275[07:18:34] <Althego> combining different materials can be tricky because of thermal expansion

L276[07:18:40] <Gasher[work]> APlayer, it would become a cutting insert lol

L277[07:18:56] <APlayer> Gasher: Sorry?

L278[07:19:15] <Gasher[work]> coating tungsen carbine with ceramics

L279[07:19:20] <Gasher[work]> * carbide

L280[07:20:06] <JCB> dad used to sell carbide cutting bits for mililng machines

L281[07:20:31] <Iskierka> APlayer, ceramics are brittle ... I fail to see how that would alter anything

L282[07:20:59] <APlayer> Iskierka: They are, but they provide strength, don't they?

L283[07:21:14] <Iskierka> Not as much as something that wasn't brittle

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L285[07:21:32] <Iskierka> more tungsten carbide would work better than a ceramic layer

L286[07:21:51] <APlayer> Alright, tungsten carbide with titanium?

L287[07:22:54] <Iskierka> titanium isn't magic and if this was space-limited tungsten carbide would be better than almost everything else due to density

L288[07:23:15] <Iskierka> if mass limited then due to the likely cost to begin with you're probably better off with inconel

L289[07:23:19] <Althego> you cna also try silicone carbide and obron nitride for hardness

L290[07:23:35] <Althego> maybe al2o3 too

L291[07:23:38] <Iskierka> I'm not sure why a reactor would need hardness anyway

L292[07:23:56] <Althego> dunno

L293[07:24:04] <Althego> heat tolerance is probably more important

L294[07:24:42] <Fluburtur> https://78.media.tumblr.com/aa7b63628ef35bc0a6d6e3df111c507a/tumblr_p1ly622E8Q1tz76r4o1_540.png

L295[07:24:48] <APlayer> What about reactors with stuff in them that expands? Like water? Or NTRs?

L296[07:24:49] <Althego> cute

L297[07:25:01] <Althego> add expansion space

L298[07:25:12] <Iskierka> all reactors have components to manage that

L299[07:25:12] <Althego> as any water heating system has such

L300[07:25:42] <Althego> any interesting kerbal mission ideas?

L301[07:25:55] <Iskierka> and it's not unlikely that the metal would expand more than the water

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L303[07:28:33] <APlayer> Althego: Phobos-Grunt replica

L304[07:28:51] <Deddly> Build aerospike out of copper and extend it out to make guidance fins/heat dissipaters ;)

L305[07:30:23] <APlayer> Well, then not a reactor, but whatever that can be really hot and have a large pressure

L306[07:30:30] <JCB> ugh ok try for sleep now.. lates

L307[07:30:30] <Althego> and fail? i dont want to do that :)

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L309[07:30:47] <APlayer> Althego: And succeed

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L312[07:42:24] <Althego> https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/improbableconstantchupacabra

L313[07:42:27] <Althego> hahaha. dont do that

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L315[07:46:06] <Iskierka> "Magnesium does not react with water to any significant extent"

L316[07:46:12] <Iskierka> firefighters were taking correct action

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L318[07:48:36] <Althego> chemically

L319[07:48:57] <Althego> still can be maybe a steam explosion

L320[07:49:02] <Althego> or something similar

L321[07:49:28] <Iskierka> which would be *technically* a risk in any fire, they must still make effort to suppress it

L322[07:50:20] <Althego> complete white, it looks like a cut in a movie

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L328[08:21:52] <APlayer> Looks like it did speed up the magnesium fire, though. This looked like magnesium fire white

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L330[08:22:43] <APlayer> Also, I thought magnesium reduces water?

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L332[08:24:25] <darsie> Depends on temperature and surface area.

L333[08:24:28] <darsie> I'd say.

L334[08:25:02] <darsie> In Fukushima we got H2 from zirconium and hot water, IIRC, which caused the hall to explode.

L335[08:25:03] <APlayer> Perhaps "Magnesium does not react with water to any significant extent" means that it does not produce significant amounts of Mg(OH)2?

L336[08:26:04] <darsie> We have a magnesium electrode in our water boiler.

L337[08:26:15] <APlayer> I.e. it wouldn't do what alkali metals usually do in water

L338[08:26:27] <darsie> Maybe at 300 C.

L339[08:26:35] <APlayer> However, if it is already burning...

L340[08:26:47] <darsie> Might burn in steam.

L341[08:26:53] <APlayer> I guess it /would/ reduce water and produce hydrogen

L342[08:27:15] <darsie> It burns in CO2, IIRC.

L343[08:27:27] <APlayer> (Iskierka ^ what do you say?)

L344[08:29:07] <APlayer> https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/33167/why-does-burning-magnesium-explode-when-sprinkled-with-water/93986#93986

L345[08:29:40] <Fluburtur> apparently the body of my camera is magnesium

L346[08:29:45] <Fluburtur> I have no idea why

L347[08:30:44] <APlayer> Of course so it explodes if you put water on it!

L348[08:31:01] <darsie> https://youtu.be/2oQ_9nFe9HU?t=73 Magnesium Burning in CO2

L349[08:31:01] <kmath> YouTube - Fire and Flame 38 - Magnesium Burning in CO2

L350[08:31:05] <petti> because it sounds cool of course

L351[08:31:14] <Fluburtur> I guess I can also scrape a knife on it and make fire if I need

L352[08:31:58] <petti> I suppose it's a bit lighter than aluminimun

L353[08:32:10] <Fluburtur> can I get a camera made of aluminium/lithium alloy?

L354[08:32:16] <Fluburtur> or is it too overkill

L355[08:32:40] <Fluburtur> like some aircraft grade material

L356[08:32:51] <petti> go for metallic hydrogen

L357[08:33:08] <Fluburtur> I guess

L358[08:33:13] <Fluburtur> what about the optics?

L359[08:33:27] <petti> force fields

L360[08:33:50] <Fluburtur> like micro black holes for gravity lensing?

L361[08:33:51] <APlayer> Germanium sounds OK for IR optics

L362[08:34:20] <Iskierka> https://i.imgur.com/5x2fNqS.mp4

L363[08:34:22] <APlayer> Also good if someone attacks you, you just throw the camera at them and watch them get cancer

L364[08:34:58] <Fluburtur> eh

L365[08:35:10] <Fluburtur> I do want some old school lens with thorium

L366[08:35:13] <Fluburtur> those are cool

L367[08:36:04] <Fluburtur> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/attachments/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/276117d1437528303-asahi-pentax-super-takumar-50mm-f-1-4-lens-radioactive-lens.jpg

L368[08:36:17] <Fluburtur> let's see

L369[08:36:26] <Fluburtur> I also need a 300mm lens and a 10mm one

L370[08:37:23] <Deddly> That quote needs to be highlighted for being awesome in every possible way.

L371[08:37:27] <Iskierka> radioactive stuff in photography seems like a bad idea for image quality

L372[08:37:58] <Fluburtur> they used thorium power to take care of chromatic abberations before more modern stuff was invented

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L374[08:38:25] <Fluburtur> and they give a nice color to the picture because they turn yellow/brown over time

L375[08:38:31] <Fluburtur> and they aren't that radioactive

L376[08:38:46] <Fluburtur> won't keep it on my camera all the time however

L377[08:38:52] <darsie> https://youtu.be/zCzghhvufR8?t=158 Burning Magnesium in Steam produces hydrogen

L378[08:38:52] <kmath> YouTube - Burning Magnesium in Steam | Morning of Chemistry 2013

L379[08:39:03] <Fluburtur> but it's probably only some alpha and beta particles

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L381[08:45:31] <Althego> https://qz.com/1165775/googles-voice-generating-ai-is-now-indistinguishable-from-humans/

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L383[08:45:56] <APlayer> LOL Deddly, don't take my jokes seriously :P

L384[08:46:20] <Deddly> It made me chuckle :)

L385[08:46:56] <Althego> haha probably dissociates the water

L386[08:47:08] <Althego> happens in case of very hot materials

L387[08:50:41] <Deddly> Althego, I think I can tell which one is which in that page. Would be interesting if I am wrong

L388[08:51:42] <Deddly> In the two comparisons, I feel strongly that the first sample in both is generated.

L389[08:51:45] <Iskierka> https://i.imgur.com/EqN9i3f.jpg

L390[08:51:50] <Iskierka> ~stealth~

L391[08:52:25] <Fluburtur> who could guess

L392[08:52:26] <Althego> washington gen is the first

L393[08:52:30] <Althego> lipstick gen is the second

L394[08:52:41] <Deddly> Althego, is that so?

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L396[08:53:20] <Althego> the bus doesnt have gen

L397[08:53:25] <Deddly> Althego, the first lipstick one sounded really generated to me, lol.

L398[08:53:38] <Althego> it still may be

L399[08:53:40] <Althego> who knows

L400[08:53:56] <Deddly> Althego, oh I thought you went into the code of the web site like they said

L401[08:54:12] <Althego> that is what i did

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L403[08:54:27] <Althego> but that is only the filename

L404[08:54:34] <Deddly> And it says the second lipstick one is generated?

L405[08:55:26] <Althego> the _gen more to the right than the _gt in case of lipstick

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L407[08:57:27] <Deddly> Of course, knowing them, they could have renamed them to fool geeks like us

L408[08:57:47] <Iskierka> that wouldn't be particularly useful since they want labelling they understand

L409[08:57:51] <Deddly> It's pretty good, anyway

L410[08:58:30] <Iskierka> more likely they expect you to get confused over what "gt" could mean and doubt yourself that gen might be short for Genna or something. (I'd personally postulate that the t of gt is probably test)

L411[09:00:03] <Fluburtur> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKanlOtjw0Y

L412[09:00:03] <kmath> YouTube - Necklace 2

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L417[09:10:03] <Eroc|2> I'm wondering, I built a station module using InfernalRobotics for some double folded Solar Array Beams. Each held a ton of solar array the 1x6 standard modules. Starting the module went fine, deploying them worked as intended

L418[09:10:55] <Eroc|2> yet as I returned to the Station the Kraken had taken a hold of the solar arrays and they were spinning around violently exerting enormous torque on the station

L419[09:11:23] <APlayer> Reload from a quicksave

L420[09:11:47] <APlayer> IR contraptions are prone to Kraken attacks indeed

L421[09:12:04] <Eroc|2> so do a F5 - F9 and hope for the best?

L422[09:12:19] <APlayer> Uh, no F5

L423[09:12:31] <APlayer> Revert to an earlier stage

L424[09:12:46] <Eroc|2> there was now previous quicksave so ... nothing to go back to

L425[09:13:08] <APlayer> If that is impossible, try switching to KSC and back to the station

L426[09:13:33] <APlayer> Even if that fixes the spinning, there might be damage, check things carefully

L427[09:13:40] <APlayer> And quicksave when using IR

L428[09:15:00] <Eroc|2> okay ... Thanks for the tips.

L429[09:15:44] <APlayer> If that does not fix the spinning or the spinning comes back again, a screenshot of the station would be helpful in finding the issue

L430[09:16:12] <APlayer> In the worst case, replace the IR modules with conventional ones

L431[09:16:29] <Eroc|2> Quicksave is a little bit problematic as I do often several long time missions parallel - I saved the station this time by decoupling the module and getting it to a deorbit trajectory

L432[09:16:50] <APlayer> Humm, I see

L433[09:17:27] <Eroc|2> whicha shame for the expensive life support modules on it - but that is the price of exploring space - with a ton of mods :D

L434[09:17:55] <Eroc|2> better then giving up the whole station

L435[09:19:32] <APlayer> Well, I guess just try to avoid using IR in weird places, the mechanics circumvent a lot of internal KSP stuff which leads to random bugs

L436[09:20:06] <APlayer> And if things break, consider it a component failure and abort the mission :P

L437[09:20:31] <Eroc|2> yeah probably IR should be limited to short fun stuff but not in creating elaborate foldable space-stations

L438[09:20:43] <sandbox> "Alfie Curtis, who played Dr Evazan in Star Wars: A New Hope, has died at the age of 87."

L439[09:22:26] *** Eroc|2 is now known as EricPoehlsen

L440[09:23:09] <Iskierka> the only semipermanent uses of IR that are reasonable are simple folding lander mechanisms

L441[09:23:21] <Iskierka> those tend to be simple enough (and built with folded as default) that they don't glitch out

L442[09:25:11] <EricPoehlsen> at least it happened on a station in LKO and not somewhere around the outer planets

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L444[09:31:21] <APlayer> oren: Ping

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L446[09:40:45] <Mathuin> Okay, todays' "project" now that gravity turn sorta works is circularization. I have the vis visa equation and ane xecute node script. My career game is advanced enough that I could make nodes and try them.

L447[09:41:19] <Mathuin> I suspect my execute node script (straight from kOS docs) will not handle staging correctly.

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L449[09:47:20] <APlayer> The execute node script can be improved in a number of ways

L450[09:48:11] <APlayer> For example throttling when the burn get small to reduce or prevent overshoot, which is one of the simpler and better improvements

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L454[10:16:29] <Mathuin> Back from driving the wife to work. Now to see what's wrong with my circularization script.

L455[10:16:43] <Mathuin> Also, kOS lets you print at a particular point -- how can I tell where the next print will be?

L456[10:19:47] <Mathuin> So my vis visa equation gives me the following results: Pe V is computed to be 7731m/s, Ap V is 1137.7, delta between is 6593, burn time of 59 seconds.

L457[10:20:18] <Mathuin> When I create the node, the game says that's a 103 second burn and that my Pe will be -496k instead of 100k.

L458[10:21:43] <umaxtu> are you using RSS?

L459[10:21:49] <Mathuin> No RSS/RO here.

L460[10:22:23] <APlayer> The node does not account for burning off fuel, indeed

L461[10:22:37] <umaxtu> maybe try installing the better burn time mod?

L462[10:22:50] <Mathuin> It is installed, I think that's what's telling me 103s

L463[10:22:52] <APlayer> Rely on vis viva

L464[10:22:56] <Mathuin> I'm trying to do the math in kOS.

L465[10:23:07] <Mathuin> Is 1137 m/s a reasonable value for orbiting at 100km ?

L466[10:23:14] <Mathuin> s/orbiting at/orbiting Kerbin at/

L467[10:23:22] <APlayer> Uh, rely on tsiolkvsky, that is

L468[10:23:48] <APlayer> Well, usually it is 2200 m/s, IIRC

L469[10:24:08] <APlayer> But given the PE velocity, I'd assume this is not an orbit yet

L470[10:24:26] <Mathuin> It's just after the gravity turn, for context.

L471[10:24:39] <APlayer> Yeah, this is a suborbital trajectory

L472[10:24:50] <APlayer> The periapsis is below the surface

L473[10:24:55] <Mathuin> That is correct.

L474[10:25:17] <APlayer> So if you managed to get there and not crash into Kerbin, your orbital velocity would be 7731 m/s

L475[10:25:21] <Mathuin> For v=sqrt(gm(2/r-1/a)) is that r and a from my target orbit or my current one?

L476[10:25:35] <Mathuin> Yes, if there were a giant burrito sized tube through the planet, I would be zooming along at that speed. :-)

L477[10:25:39] <APlayer> And you pretty much don't care about the PE velocity at this point

L478[10:26:05] <APlayer> What you need is the AP velocity and the velocity at the same spot if the orbit was circular

L479[10:26:17] <Mathuin> Mmm.

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L481[10:26:23] <APlayer> The difference between those is the burn you need to perform

L482[10:26:36] <APlayer> You follow me?

L483[10:26:41] <Mathuin> No.

L484[10:26:52] <Mathuin> I have the AP velocity and PE velocity for the orbit I am in.

L485[10:26:55] <APlayer> So, you are at AP on a suborbital trajectory

L486[10:27:03] <APlayer> But your target is a circular orbit

L487[10:27:08] <Mathuin> Yes.

L488[10:27:22] <Mathuin> "the velocity at the same spot [where, AP?] if the orbit was circular"

L489[10:27:30] <APlayer> Now, you need to see what the velocity at AP /already/ is, because that's what you already have

L490[10:28:18] <Mathuin> "I have the AP velocity ... for the orbit I am in."

L491[10:28:23] <Mathuin> That makes sense, and I have it.

L492[10:28:24] <APlayer> And to find out what you lack, you also need to know what your goal is, i.e. the velocity of a circular orbit that the same altitude

L493[10:29:29] <APlayer> This is obtained from the circular orbit vis viva simplification you will find on Wikipedia (or really, just derive it yourself, where a = r)

L494[10:30:57] <APlayer> Got it?

L495[10:31:10] <Mathuin> I already think I understand the vis visa equation.

L496[10:31:12] <Mathuin> THe problem is the inputs.

L497[10:31:49] <Mathuin> I have modified my script to return the current ap velocity (1137ish) and the necessary velocity from an orbit with that same altitude and a semimajor axis equal to twice the sum of the apoapsis and radius, which now that I think of it is too much.

L498[10:32:12] <Mathuin> The resulting node is 1613ms and will result in an ap of 150k and a pe of 100k.

L499[10:32:15] <APlayer> No, it's correct

L500[10:32:28] <Mathuin> "semi" means half, does it not?

L501[10:32:38] <APlayer> (AP + radius) * 2

L502[10:32:42] <Mathuin> The entire axis is apo plus radius plus radius plus apo ?

L503[10:32:47] <APlayer> Uh, let me see

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L505[10:33:02] <Mathuin> When I remove the 2*

L506[10:33:06] <Mathuin> I get what looks like reasonable values.

L507[10:33:09] <APlayer> Yep, sorry

L508[10:33:11] <APlayer> Only once

L509[10:33:15] <Mathuin> 1137 to 2246 requires 1108 which I have

L510[10:33:20] <Mathuin> burn length is 20s which is reasonable.

L511[10:33:28] <Mathuin> So I think circularization is a win.

L512[10:33:35] <Mathuin> Now to see if execute node will burn such a thing.

L513[10:34:02] <Mathuin> I have a v. narrow window here to try things before reverting to launch again.

L514[10:34:05] <Mathuin> Since I didn't save.

L515[10:34:40] <Mathuin> The execute node script has an error in the first line, sigh.

L516[10:36:44] <Mathuin> I apparently found an old version of the docs.

L517[10:37:19] <APlayer> Try writing an execute node script yourself

L518[10:37:32] <APlayer> It's a good exercise

L519[10:37:52] <APlayer> Also, I may help if you get stuck

L520[10:38:02] <Mathuin> I do not have eight hours to play today. :-(

L521[10:39:31] <APlayer> It's a rather quick thing to write

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L523[10:41:07] <Mathuin> So was the PID loop, which took me three hours.

L524[10:41:16] <APlayer> Get the maneuver node delta-v (Don't remember the syntax for that right now, but it's a quick thing to look up), calculate half burn time using tsiolkovsky, orient in the direction of the maneuver node, wait till burn start, activate engines

L525[10:41:29] <APlayer> PID loops are way harder

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L527[10:42:21] <APlayer> It's the tuning that makes PID loops long, tedious and boring

L528[10:42:52] <APlayer> And the worst part is, you can't really re-use them, you need to start over every time something changes

L529[10:43:18] <Mathuin> I will probalby rip it out then, because nobody got time for that.

L530[10:44:37] <Mathuin> Okay, once I fixed the second bug in the cut-and-paste script straight from the docs, I get a proper direction and a proper burn time.

L531[10:44:44] <Mathuin> Shame the ship doesn't have enough gas to do the burn this time around.

L532[10:44:54] <APlayer> Well, PID loops are the "proper" way to do a lot of things, but I avoid them when possible, because it's so difficult and time consuming

L533[10:45:11] <APlayer> PD loops are somewhat easier and usually do fine too

L534[10:45:44] <Mathuin> Does that work by setting kI to zero, or do I need to write it out longhand?

L535[10:45:52] <Mathuin> Because right now I'm looking at a very very simple P loop.

L536[10:47:00] <APlayer> Yes, setting KI to 0 makes a PD loop

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L538[10:47:33] <APlayer> Writing it out is more efficient, but using the built in function is fine

L539[10:49:26] <APlayer> It's a spaceplane script, IIRC?

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L541[10:49:32] <Mathuin> Gravity turn.

L542[10:49:36] <Mathuin> Launch.

L543[10:49:42] <APlayer> For rockets or planes?

L544[10:49:45] <Mathuin> Rockets.

L545[10:49:50] <APlayer> Ah

L546[10:49:56] <APlayer> May I see the code, then?

L547[10:50:32] <Mathuin> https://hastebin.twilley.org/cixusuxula.ks

L548[10:52:17] <APlayer> TWR of 1.5 is a bit too little

L549[10:52:25] <APlayer> May go for 2 or 2.5 and save fuel

L550[10:52:29] <Mathuin> The value of 1.5 was actually working.

L551[10:52:33] <Mathuin> The current value is 1.75

L552[10:52:36] <Mathuin> On this different craft.

L553[10:52:42] <lordcirth> By the way, I made a fairly reliable, if not optimal, suborbital ascent using only a single linear equation, no PID other than the kOS steering one. Maps from Apoapsis to Pitch.

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L555[10:53:16] <APlayer> lordcirth: And what did the equation describe?

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L557[10:55:39] <lordcirth> https://github.com/lordcirth/kOS-Public/blob/master/rocket.ks

L558[10:56:25] <lordcirth> A linear equation where pitch goes from 90 to 0 as Ap goes from 0 to 'alt' - 10k.

L559[10:57:11] <lordcirth> While I'm sure it's not optimal, it has worked with a number of diverse rocket designs, and even works fine on a 2x scale Kerbin (Sigma Dimensions).

L560[10:58:02] <lordcirth> Using Ap rather than Alt essentially counteracts changes in TWR; high TWR makes the rocket tilt more, low TWR tilts less.

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L562[11:00:47] <lordcirth> I haven't gotten a non-east launch to work properly, though.

L563[11:00:58] <Mathuin> Is there a reason to worry about max pressure other than realism?

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L566[11:02:28] <lordcirth> Mathuin, if you're running FAR, too high a maxQ could cause disintegration. In stock, too high maxQ means Dv lost to drag.

L567[11:03:15] <APlayer> ^

L568[11:03:26] <APlayer> Control surfaces also might be a reason

L569[11:05:56] <Fluburtur> http://www.platinumfighters.com/bf109g6

L570[11:06:01] <Fluburtur> can someone get me this one?

L571[11:06:44] <Mathuin> I am indeed running FAR. THe moment one of my spacecrafts explodes, I will worry about max Q> :-)

L572[11:07:19] <Mathuin> For what it's worth, my script combination actually worked, and Valentina is now circling Kerbin. She does not have enough fuel to come home, though.

L573[11:07:26] <Mathuin> So I will revert, and tune, and relaunch.

L574[11:07:36] <Althego> hehe

L575[11:07:50] <Althego> the eva push is still an option

L576[11:08:07] <Mathuin> The circularization put me in a 104x99 orbit which impressed me.

L577[11:08:09] <Althego> flub, that is 5 million euros

L578[11:08:29] <Althego> i thought it would be expensive, but this is hilarious

L579[11:09:56] <Fluburtur> yeah but it's an original 109

L580[11:10:01] <Fluburtur> those are rare

L581[11:10:18] <Fluburtur> http://www.platinumfighters.com/p-51d-n38227

L582[11:10:23] <Althego> if i had 5 million euros i would buy a new plane :)

L583[11:11:29] <UmbralRaptor> You can get a decent Cessna or Diamond Aviation for a few hundred k.

L584[11:11:44] <Fluburtur> no

L585[11:11:53] <Fluburtur> I want to show up at a flight school with an original 109

L586[11:11:53] <Mathuin> ... and KSP crashed, so EVA push is th eonly way home.

L587[11:12:15] <Althego> i tell you how to do it. save before launch :)

L588[11:12:29] <Fluburtur> http://www.platinumfighters.com/me262

L589[11:13:06] <Mathuin> ... gotta upgrade Astronaut Complex!

L590[11:13:33] <Fluburtur> this one is pretty cheap http://www.platinumfighters.com/yak3m

L591[11:16:11] <APlayer> OK, pray for my code, I may have completely broken it

L592[11:16:37] <APlayer> At least no syntax errors upon running it

L593[11:16:42] <EricPoehlsen> hmm that happens

L594[11:17:15] <EricPoehlsen> syntax errors are the best errors - far better than hidden logic errors like a misplaced sign or operator :D

L595[11:17:25] <APlayer> OK, someone prayed too hard, KSP crashed

L596[11:18:12] <APlayer> EricPoehlsen: Yes, but they are annoying in my case. Need to notice them, fix them, relaunch the whole test

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L598[11:18:26] <Mathuin> Lather, rinse, repeat, half a dozen times and now it's lunch. :-(

L599[11:18:28] <APlayer> The latter point takes about three minutes and I need to watch it

L600[11:18:28] <EricPoehlsen> all errors are annoying

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L604[11:29:26] <lordcirth> Mathuin, what has your maxQ been? Usually 40k is where things start to get dangerous

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L616[12:12:58] <Mathuin> I am not measuring it at the moment, just watching the ship get the white lines during ascent.

L617[12:14:12] <lordcirth> Mathuin, the FAR window will show it.

L618[12:14:44] <Althego> those mountains are quite a scenery http://warpology.com/k/inland.png

L619[12:16:04] <Althego> and on the way there i hopped out of the atmosphere once

L620[12:16:13] <Althego> with the jets

L621[12:17:12] <Mathuin> I haven't looked at a FAR window, I will next launch.

L622[12:17:36] <Mathuin> If Val had waited for me to get a Terrier engine, she'd've been able to come home.

L623[12:17:58] <lordcirth> Mathuin, is she stuck in orbit or what?

L624[12:18:02] <Mathuin> Stuck for now.

L625[12:18:10] <Mathuin> I was going to revert but KSP crashed so I sucked it up.

L626[12:18:59] <lordcirth> Mathuin, how high is Pe? Close enough to 70k to get out and push, or spin decouple?

L627[12:19:23] <Mathuin> 85k, not worth it, will rescue her as a project in writing a rendezvous script, or restart at worst.

L628[12:19:40] <Mathuin> Jeb ascended with the gravity turn script, circularlized with the circularize script and execute node script, and will now hopefully land. I built the node by hand this time, used the execute node script to execute the node, and now I'll fly "by hand" for the landing.

L629[12:21:05] <Mathuin> I didn't think to write a script for landing. :-)

L630[12:22:08] <Mathuin> A variant of the circularize script would create a node with a desired periapsis, say 0. Execute the node, and have the ship drop everything to the heat shield before pointing backwards. I guess?

L631[12:22:32] <lordcirth> "landing" a capsule is usually just lock steering to retrograde. wait until alt < 5000. stage.

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L635[12:28:25] <Mathuin> If there's a pilot on board, I can rationalize flying it. It'd be nice though to have scripts for everything.

L636[12:28:35] <Mathuin> There's now support for checking if it's safe to chute.

L637[12:31:16] <Mathuin> I am truly entertained that this is my personal best landing with regard to closeness to KSC.

L638[12:32:08] <Althego> with a chosen ship and a chosen orbital altitude, you can just practice until you can make close landings with a single burn. i call it knife throwing

L639[12:33:09] <Mathuin> 44.2 km, 95.9% value woot

L640[12:33:39] <Mathuin> Some of you freaks land on top of the VAB, I know. :-)

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L647[12:53:42] <Mathuin> Hmm, now wondering if I can determine whether the current stage has a heat shield

L648[12:54:44] <Mathuin> I geuss I could check to see if it had the Ablator resource.

L649[12:55:06] <Althego> that missies the inflatable

L650[12:55:16] <Mathuin> Good point. I don't use it, but I might.

L651[12:55:23] <Althego> also it doesnt say which direction

L652[12:55:33] <Mathuin> What do you mean which direction?

L653[12:55:54] <Mathuin> Right now I feel totally comfortable assuming the heat shield is on the bottom of the craft when seen at launch.

L654[12:56:07] <Althego> top or bottom / front or back?

L655[13:00:28] <Gasher> Althego, the eternal question, i should say

L656[13:02:41] <ve2dmn> Althego: 'yes'

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L658[13:06:30] <Mathuin> If I want to set my heading in kOS to ten degrees above retrograde, is RETROGRADE + PITCH(10) adequate?

L659[13:06:53] <Althego> does it do quaternions automatically?

L660[13:07:30] <Althego> otherwise there are special problems around angles where they wrap around

L661[13:10:28] <Mathuin> I'm now at the point where I want to mess about with ship-specific files.

L662[13:10:41] <Mathuin> i.e., load the gravity turn settings for a given ship, and save them.

L663[13:11:03] <Althego> make an ai that comes up with the optimal solution on its own :)

L664[13:11:19] <Mathuin> Althego: the GravityTurn mod has a simulator that I like.

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L669[13:13:07] <Althego> also what about body specific settings for the same ships :)

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L675[13:13:50] <Mathuin> All of this is focused entirely on Kerbin -- not even worrying about Mun and Minmus today.

L676[13:14:35] <Mathuin> https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/commands/serialization.html#serialization

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L680[13:17:16] <Mathuin> Hah! kOS does have hashes.

L681[13:18:24] <Althego> #hashes :)

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L684[13:32:47] <UmbralRaptor> md5? sha1?

L685[13:37:04] <Mathuin> associative arrays

L686[13:37:09] <Mathuin> "lexicons"

L687[13:37:29] <Mathuin> I can do things like write a JSON file with all the settings for a particular ship.

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L689[13:37:45] <Mathuin> Then load the turnsettings JSON file, select the lexicon that represents a given ship, and go to town.

L690[13:38:41] <Mathuin> I even have a default set so a new ship has a chance of not crashing.

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L694[13:41:59] <Althego> may be vader some day later now he is just small fry

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L701[13:47:51] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: how big are your kOS files?

L702[13:48:45] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: I have a "lib.ks" which has accrued 146 lines of functions and comments. Next largest is "gravityturn.ks" at 121, followed by "land.ks" (untested) at 56.

L703[13:49:08] <Mathuin> I no longer need "circularize.ks" or "deorbit.ks" now that I have ChangePeri() in my lib file.

L704[13:49:29] <Mathuin> And "safelaunch.ks" no longer matters either.

L705[13:49:55] <Mathuin> This is without using smart parts to save code for staging.

L706[13:50:26] <Mathuin> And discarding all the PID tweaks using the default values of 1, 0, 0

L707[13:51:03] <ve2dmn> I found https://www.reddit.com/r/Kos/comments/3ftcwk/compute_burn_time_with_calculus/

L708[13:51:14] <Mathuin> The burn time math I have is similar to that I think.

L709[13:51:17] <ve2dmn> as well as https://github.com/Noiredd/PEGAS

L710[13:51:39] <Mathuin> The PEGAS thing looks crazy

L711[13:51:42] <ve2dmn> then there's https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/7ljc12/when_your_precision_landing_script_is_too_precise/

L712[13:52:06] <ve2dmn> Since I load all my files into the probes, I sometime lack space :D

L713[13:53:45] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn I asked that guy for his source and he didn't respond, did he post it somewhere in the thread?

L714[13:53:49] <Mathuin> That's a whole nother worry :-)

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L716[13:55:38] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: not sure

L717[13:55:43] <Mathuin> Converting my circularization into the library function is not quite working, this'll be my last thing to fix before lunch.

L718[13:56:12] <ve2dmn> I'm more interesting in the logic and the math everyone used then the code itself

L719[13:56:26] <ve2dmn> If I wanted an autopilot, I would use Mechjeb and be done with it

L720[13:57:02] <Mathuin> I am idly fantasizing about removing MechJeb from my mods and only using my own scripts.

L721[13:57:09] <madmerlyn> I want to make an autopilot because then I made it.

L722[13:57:39] <EricPoehlsen> oh wow - just stumbled accross kPRC ... that sounds like fun

L723[13:57:50] <Mathuin> kRPC is something I am super exciteda bout.

L724[13:57:57] <Mathuin> Once he gets gRPC support, I will write things in Go.

L725[13:58:07] <madmerlyn> I want to try it out, but it seems to be a lot less documented than kOS, which isn't highly documented itself

L726[13:58:32] <Mathuin> Stuff like Telemachus is more suited for kRPC.

L727[13:58:39] <ve2dmn> EricPoehlsen: if you like Python, go with kRPC

L728[13:59:06] <madmerlyn> yeah I like the idea of running a python daemon to monitor my ships and then execute applications on them :P

L729[13:59:07] <Mathuin> kOS code runs on a virtual machine within your command probe. kRPC code runs on your desktop and communicates with KSP.

L730[13:59:11] <ve2dmn> Also, kRPC does a lot more operation per second

L731[13:59:27] <ve2dmn> but it's not at the same 'speed' as the simulation

L732[13:59:37] <EricPoehlsen> I do a lot of Python stuff - the reason I have not yet done some KSP mods is that I am shying away from getting to deep into C#

L733[14:00:02] <Mathuin> I am very good with Python, OK with Go, and know nothing from C# other than I've used to fix bugs in KSP mods.

L734[14:00:44] <madmerlyn> with kRPC you could in theory have a Flask app or something running

L735[14:01:06] <Mathuin> A web-based version of the kerbal controllers folks make out of hardware.

L736[14:01:12] <Mathuin> Your own IVA. etc.

L737[14:01:35] <madmerlyn> I'm making a hardware controller eventually :P

L738[14:02:18] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: there's an insane KSP forum thread for that

L739[14:02:46] <EricPoehlsen> I have to admit I am one of those MechJeb users because I am a crappy 'gamer' in regards to hadnling something with WSAD keys ;)

L740[14:03:07] <Mathuin> It's all about what you think is the 'game'.

L741[14:03:19] <Mathuin> If it's hand-flying a rocket, you do you. If it's building something in the VAB, have a good time.

L742[14:03:23] <madmerlyn> I fly manually, but I like writing flights with kOS, because at least then I'm developing it instead of just download and click play from MJ

L743[14:03:30] <Fluburtur> well I just got Il2 1946

L744[14:04:00] <madmerlyn> flub on this discord I'm in a guy is trying to make his own rockets, he's going to lose a hand

L745[14:04:19] <Fluburtur> nah he will be fine

L746[14:04:35] <madmerlyn> he had his chassis butted up against a brick, no fuse, lit it with a punk

L747[14:04:43] <Fluburtur> lel

L748[14:05:44] <ve2dmn> EricPoehlsen: if the game is still fun for you, more power to ya :D

L749[14:05:48] <madmerlyn> he's also trying to make his own propellant

L750[14:05:59] <madmerlyn> but man.. it's no hard to make a spark plug jig

L751[14:07:40] <Fluburtur> just use a piece of wire that burns

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L753[14:09:05] <ve2dmn> I wish I could tell KSP to use ALL my memory intead of doing aggrsive stop-the-world garbage collection

L754[14:09:35] <Mathuin> MemGraph has been nice to me.

L755[14:11:16] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: memgraph can push the memory usage up to 10G... but I have 32...

L756[14:11:43] <Mathuin> This machine has 16G, the wife's has 4 (her motherboard hated the other 4 suddenly for some reason)

L757[14:12:23] <ve2dmn> maybe I<m using memgraph wrong :/

L758[14:12:38] <Mathuin> You also might have a better video card, and nicer mods than me.

L759[14:13:12] <ve2dmn> but a crappy CPU

L760[14:13:27] <Mathuin> i5-2500k here

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L762[14:13:32] <EricPoehlsen> WTF - I mean a lot of mods come with a pretty thin documentation - not so kRPC - there is a nearly 1000 page PDF Documentation on it :D

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L764[14:13:50] <ve2dmn> i5-4690k

L765[14:14:16] <ve2dmn> I<m thinking of buying an i7 to replace it and give my computer another 2+ more years

L766[14:14:24] <ve2dmn> it's a decent machine

L767[14:14:26] <bees> no difference

L768[14:14:31] <madmerlyn> I didn't see the 1000 page doc, I just cruised over the wiki and saw some pretty spartan examples

L769[14:14:58] <EricPoehlsen> madmerlyn it is in the zip if you download the mod :)

L770[14:15:02] <madmerlyn> and how many of those pages are just showing examples in 5 different languages

L771[14:15:02] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: kRPC?

L772[14:15:20] <madmerlyn> yeah I haven't downloaded it, I generally read docs online before grabbing the files

L773[14:15:22] <Mathuin> If I put a when/then in a function, can I then call it elsewhere? The staging when/then I am using is repetitive.

L774[14:15:45] <ve2dmn> bees: no difference? in terms of?

L775[14:16:12] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: probably

L776[14:17:10] <madmerlyn> Mathuin that kOS or kRPC you're talking about?

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L778[14:17:15] <Mathuin> madmerlyn: kOS

L779[14:17:53] <madmerlyn> I avoid using when if possible because it tends to lock up everything else until the condition is met

L780[14:17:57] <Mathuin> I feel like I should be able to 'declare function staging { when ship:maxthrust = 0 then { stage. preserve. } }.

L781[14:18:09] <madmerlyn> or at least it did in my script, completely stopped updating my readout until the when condition was met

L782[14:18:21] <Mathuin> Then I should be able to call `staging().` to replace that when/then.

L783[14:18:32] <madmerlyn> are you just wanting to auto-stage a first stage?

L784[14:18:46] <Mathuin> It launches and stages while under power

L785[14:19:14] <madmerlyn> right but are you staging spent SRBs or what?

L786[14:19:20] <Mathuin> Both solid and liquid.

L787[14:19:31] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: you aren't using triggers?

L788[14:19:35] <madmerlyn> hold on I have a routine for that

L789[14:19:43] <Mathuin> when/then is a trigger, n'est pa?

L790[14:19:49] <madmerlyn> it's on my home computer but I bet I can find the example I based it off

L791[14:19:52] <ve2dmn> welll... yes

L792[14:20:11] <Mathuin> I actually prefer to use smart parts for staging once I'm outside the part count limitation.

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L794[14:20:36] <madmerlyn> I do an iteration over my engines during whatever function I know I'll be dropping boosters in (in this case the pre-circ ascent)

L795[14:20:52] <ve2dmn> and it's "N'est-ce pas?"

L796[14:21:02] <Mathuin> Yeah yeah, I've only heard it not typed it. :-)

L797[14:21:27] <madmerlyn> basically it's like if(engine:STATE=FLAMEOUT){STAGE.} or something like that

L798[14:22:04] <madmerlyn> but you have to get all your engines in a list and iterate over them for it to work

L799[14:22:17] <ve2dmn> Usually language learners like to have their mistakes pointed out to them... because we rarely get corrected and wind up looking like idiots for a long time

L800[14:22:19] <Mathuin> That's why maxthrust owrks pretty well.

L801[14:22:24] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: not complaining at all!

L802[14:22:24] <madmerlyn> so it'll be in a for loop like for item in EngineList

L803[14:22:47] <Mathuin> "Tried to push Infinity into the stack."

L804[14:23:01] <ve2dmn> ^ my nemesis

L805[14:23:07] <madmerlyn> https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/structures/vessels/stage.html

L806[14:23:29] <madmerlyn> you can take the UNTIL false bit out though

L807[14:23:56] <ve2dmn> I have all sorts of MAX( funtion(), 0.01) in my code because of the dreaded infinity push

L808[14:24:21] <Mathuin> My nemesis is the stupid terminal not preventing other mods from grabbing keystrokes.

L809[14:24:26] <madmerlyn> I think mine was along lines of IF item:FLAMEOUT=True AND item:THROTTLELOCK=True{STAGE.}

L810[14:24:45] <madmerlyn> I did the throttlelock so it would only stage SRBs since they can't be throttled outside of VAB

L811[14:24:51] <Mathuin> I have to type and delete yp when launching, to disable TCA and AtmosphericAutopilot, because 'runpath("gravityturn.ws").' includes yp

L812[14:24:51] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: use telnet? it helps with copy-paste too :D

L813[14:25:13] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: what I really want is a working kOS Prop Monitor.

L814[14:25:18] <madmerlyn> in theory you could write a whole python script for kOS using expects in telnet

L815[14:25:21] <Mathuin> The current prerelease is buggy.

L816[14:26:23] <madmerlyn> you could also maybe do IF item:FLAMEOUT=True AND item:FUELFLOW=0

L817[14:26:45] <madmerlyn> that way even a liquid stage would trigger it when it drained if it's not piped

L818[14:27:04] <Mathuin> The docs have a good staging exmaple.

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L820[14:27:13] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: I did that in staging and kept adressing a part I just stagged... result: crash :D

L821[14:27:47] <madmerlyn> my results last night with autostaging went well

L822[14:28:08] <madmerlyn> I just put ANDs on there to eliminate the possibility of a false positive staging event heh

L823[14:28:22] <ve2dmn> Make a list, check it twice? Gonna find out who's flamout or nice?

L824[14:28:39] <Mathuin> LF is 0.09/360 -- so close to staging :-)

L825[14:28:52] <ve2dmn> Santa Jeb is going to space?

L826[14:28:54] <madmerlyn> don't want it to stage your upper stage off before circularization lol

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L828[14:30:15] <Mathuin> Hrm, kOS has break, does it have continue?

L829[14:30:33] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231106102693986314/395674775663542295/20171227212909_1.jpg

L830[14:31:02] <madmerlyn> hope he pulls his chute cord in time flub

L831[14:31:06] <madmerlyn> :P

L832[14:32:01] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231106102693986314/395675117134544896/20171226141924_1.jpg

L833[14:32:42] <Althego> lol

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L835[14:33:06] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: I still have to find why this sometimes return 0: https://github.com/ve2dmn/kOS-Script/blob/master/Burn_Function.ks

L836[14:33:38] <ve2dmn> probably a stupid mistake of calling the thing with 0 TWR

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L839[14:34:15] <Mathuin> My version of that iterates through the engine list to get the eng:ISP and eng:MAXTHRUST values.

L840[14:35:00] <ve2dmn> yeah... it's not very intelligent

L841[14:35:21] <Mathuin> Your MAX() function is your protection right?

L842[14:35:22] <ve2dmn> It works for my Tourist trips, so it's not 100% useless :D

L843[14:35:24] <EricPoehlsen> oh I love that - commandline controlling the rocket

L844[14:35:25] <ve2dmn> yes

L845[14:35:30] <Mathuin> The failure is with your ISP check.

L846[14:35:53] <ve2dmn> it doesn't crash... it returns 0

L847[14:36:03] <madmerlyn> I want to see some pastebins of yall's scripts

L848[14:36:23] <madmerlyn> let's start an IRC kOS brainstorm

L849[14:36:35] <Mathuin> madmerlyn: I have been brainstorming in this channel on kOS for the past two days. :-)

L850[14:36:43] <ve2dmn> Aplayer would want to be in on this :D

L851[14:36:55] <Mathuin> And APlayer has indeed participated.

L852[14:37:08] <EricPoehlsen> I think I'll put them on github once they are more than just some ascent auto-path

L853[14:37:24] <ve2dmn> I'm a sysadmin, not a dev... so I make crappy mistakes for lack of better coding practice.

L854[14:37:44] <madmerlyn> I'm trying to transition to developing

L855[14:37:46] <Mathuin> I'm doing more devvy stuff, since most of the sysadmin work isn't very interesting lately.

L856[14:38:05] <Mathuin> Okay, gravityturn and circularization are sane. landing's next.

L857[14:38:23] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: we are moving towards DevOps... so I'm gonna have to adapt

L858[14:38:26] <madmerlyn> goooood luck buddy

L859[14:38:44] <madmerlyn> I spent like 5 hours landing on the launchpad, and while I was ultimately successful, wasn't very cost effective heh

L860[14:39:00] <Mathuin> My definition of landing is Jeb walks away. :-)

L861[14:39:19] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: I would not know where to start doing that... because I cannot even guestimate the air loss

L862[14:39:45] <EricPoehlsen> that reminds me I wanted to calculate the possibility of accidently landing at KSC

L863[14:40:17] <madmerlyn> if you have a mod that has grid-fins it helps

L864[14:40:24] <madmerlyn> and trajectories of course

L865[14:40:32] <madmerlyn> kOS has hooks for trajectories

L866[14:40:39] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: I did not know that

L867[14:40:45] <EricPoehlsen> because some days ago I had some mishap in getting a space-station into orbit - or better something exploded on decoupling and I nearly lost Jeb

L868[14:41:07] <EricPoehlsen> but somehow I managed to deorbit his capsule with the rcs

L869[14:41:29] <EricPoehlsen> and miraculously ended up 50 meters from the launchpad

L870[14:41:49] <madmerlyn> I want to kOS autopilot a landing on the KSC runway, but I'm not sure how to solve it programmatically yet

L871[14:42:05] <madmerlyn> I'm just getting to the point where I can do it consistently the same way manually

L872[14:42:13] <ve2dmn> EricPoehlsen: if you are in 0 inclination, take the size of the KSC and divided by the circumference of Kerbin

L873[14:42:50] <madmerlyn> there's still going to be some inaccuracy though because even the best kOS script isn't going to get in an absolute perfect 0 inclination

L874[14:43:05] <madmerlyn> mine usually ends up in like 0.04+ inclination

L875[14:43:14] <EricPoehlsen> ve2dmn: I thought it will probably be somewhere inside the 1:10000 range +-

L876[14:43:19] <ve2dmn> I want an auto-dock

L877[14:43:40] <ve2dmn> so I can automate supply runs to my Kerbin space station

L878[14:43:53] <madmerlyn> I wonder if kOS has hooks for docking port alignment, not that that's required but it might simplify the math

L879[14:44:17] <EricPoehlsen> 1km is roughly 1:2000 of the circumference

L880[14:44:50] <madmerlyn> Kerbin is only 2000km around the equator? Surely it's bigger than that.

L881[14:45:10] <EricPoehlsen> double that

L882[14:45:20] <EricPoehlsen> 600 km radius not 300km radius

L883[14:45:21] <ve2dmn> most of my brain power has been spent trying to come up with clevers ways to launch with minimal dV

L884[14:45:29] <ve2dmn> the result is https://github.com/ve2dmn/kOS-Script/blob/master/launch4.ks#L109-L113

L885[14:45:35] <madmerlyn> yay a script

L886[14:45:55] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: I have a whole repo

L887[14:46:22] <ve2dmn> Like I said, I'm no coder... but the thing gets into orbit.... sometimes

L888[14:46:58] <madmerlyn> when I get home I'll share my spaceplane script

L889[14:47:09] <ve2dmn> That script try to estimate the loss due to everything... then it forget about it and simply uses the current groundspeed

L890[14:47:22] <madmerlyn> though it's less calculating ideal ascent and more, ascend the same way every time you run it heh

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L892[14:48:07] <ve2dmn> And the throttle adjusting should be a PIDLoop

L893[14:48:16] <ve2dmn> right now it's... commented out

L894[14:49:00] <madmerlyn> mine spaceplane ascent is more along the lines, when you're going 120m/s pitch 10 degrees, when you're at XX altitude do this, kinda deal

L895[14:49:33] <madmerlyn> with a fun little parameter that can be set to use nose-thrusters to lift the nose up on my mk2 planes that have the landing gear too far back to pivot

L896[14:50:18] <madmerlyn> my Lancelot Mk2 plane I just don't feel comfortable moving the landing gear forward, and since KSP doesn't have multi-position landing gear, my solution was to add some separatrons to the nose :P

L897[14:50:39] <ve2dmn> right now the current acent logic I have is :minmum between

L898[14:50:40] <ve2dmn> SpeedPitch TO (100-(GROUNDSPEED/12)).

L899[14:50:40] <ve2dmn> LOCK AltitudePitch TO (90 - ((SHIP:Altitude /60000 )*90)).

L900[14:51:02] <ve2dmn> that gives you a value between 0 and 90 degree

L901[14:51:03] <Mathuin> I haven't bothered adjusting pitch with the gravity turn after the initial nudge.

L902[14:51:28] <madmerlyn> my vertical rocket script just does 0.2 pitch adjustments every 0.2s

L903[14:51:33] <madmerlyn> until it reaches a pitch of 1

L904[14:51:51] <Mathuin> I dodged the mid-node staging issue by dropping the launch TWR and it turns out to be more efficient at the end of the day.

L905[14:51:58] <madmerlyn> hardly fine tunes itself for a proper ascent though, I pretty much have to design the rocket around the script

L906[14:52:41] <ve2dmn> I'm trying to design a good-enough universal script

L907[14:52:50] <madmerlyn> my spaceplane script is a lot more versatile though, it's worked on every plane I've loaded it on

L908[14:53:17] <madmerlyn> course I don't have many spaceplanes that are really low TWR so that probably helps

L909[14:53:41] <ve2dmn> I'm really bad with spaceplanes, so I don't bother

L910[14:54:37] <madmerlyn> did you look at my planes on kerbalx yesterday?

L911[14:54:47] <ve2dmn> no... maybe I should

L912[14:55:40] <ve2dmn> I had a really nice few spaceplanes, before burning up was an issue

L913[14:55:47] <madmerlyn> https://kerbalx.com/madmerlyn/

L914[14:55:57] <EricPoehlsen> hmm maybe kRPC can help to tame the kraken around IR

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L917[14:56:00] <madmerlyn> I'll get the kOS script I use to fly them for you later too

L918[14:56:07] *** nallar_ is now known as nallar

L919[14:58:21] <madmerlyn> all the planes labeled Gallahad have the same wing configuration, just in different payload capacities and cargo configurations

L920[14:58:44] <ve2dmn> before burning up was an issue I had to deal with... I wind up taking this screenshot: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/525002725032009296/0D403A502980E5B2CF690E7BBA56A5869211A4B1/

L921[14:58:59] <madmerlyn> Gallahad-L and LC are the "Lite" versions that are only rated around 20t cargo and have a slightly shorter cargo bay, the standard Gallahad can do 55t of cargo with a longer bay

L922[14:59:23] <madmerlyn> that a re-entry shot?

L923[14:59:43] <madmerlyn> for re-entry I use a descent profile in trajectories of 47/42/37

L924[14:59:55] <madmerlyn> basically I stay close to 40-45 degrees until I go completely subsonic

L925[15:00:01] <madmerlyn> then I push my nose down and drop altitude

L926[15:00:31] <ve2dmn> I also have one of a burning cross, because my Eve sat was designed as an X of sats on top a long line of fuel tanks...

L927[15:00:37] <madmerlyn> trying to hold 45 degree pitch will give you a good indication if you need to balance your fuel a bit too

L928[15:00:39] <ve2dmn> not a volontary image

L929[15:01:00] <madmerlyn> if your nose keeps pulling down pump full back, if it keeps pushing up pump fuel forward

L930[15:01:17] <madmerlyn> once you have good control authority for keeping your nose around 45 degrees you're balanced enough to land

L931[15:01:29] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: I'm not even that design would work these days

L932[15:02:02] <ve2dmn> I'll try you designs later... I have a 45min burn to push an asteroid first

L933[15:02:55] <bees> ve2dmn: launch factorio while you are burning in ksp

L934[15:03:09] <bees> whatcouldpossiblygowrong

L935[15:03:12] <ve2dmn> I don't have factorio... yet

L936[15:03:30] <Mathuin> I was playing KSP and CivV because the wife takes too long with her turns.

L937[15:03:41] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn when I started redeveloping on the Gallahad class I was using SpaceY nosecones, but I made pure stock variants for KerbalX

L938[15:04:07] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: you have a wife that plays Civ5 ? lucky you. None of my friends do :/

L939[15:04:13] <madmerlyn> then I discovered that in spite of the 2.5m nosecone having low skin temperature and low mass, it performed very well in the normal 100% heating or whatever default is

L940[15:04:36] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: my wife plays just about as well as me -- I'm superior in combat, she's more of a diplomat -- and she really likes playing.

L941[15:04:39] <madmerlyn> so now I primarily just use my stock versions

L942[15:04:52] <ve2dmn> my best bug yet: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/52122954224630178/5F9D49DACE3D4BFEEFAC7F2AEAAACB1872BC698A/

L943[15:05:04] <madmerlyn> they both have similar dv on orbit and everything so I don't really gain much by using the SpaceY nose except a color scheme that clashes with the rest of the ship

L944[15:05:35] <madmerlyn> only 1 KAC? I wish I could keep my space program that focused. lol

L945[15:05:47] <madmerlyn> I'm down to 3 alarms and i'm like.. wtf why don't I have more in progress

L946[15:05:59] <ve2dmn> that's the compact view

L947[15:06:26] <Mathuin> It's raining Kerbals.

L948[15:06:37] <madmerlyn> I've been stalled out last couple playsessions trying to figure out how I want to do my Spartan VI mission to Eeloo

L949[15:07:08] <madmerlyn> first one was going to use NFP Hall-Effect thrusters, but then I realized the burns would be like 20m long

L950[15:07:36] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: my usual spaceplane landings: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/526129167440612178/FB43F6288E2FE9D079A2359C2D59E6B02D78091B/

L951[15:07:52] <madmerlyn> then I switched to a monoP OM engine from NFP, but it was too wide to fit in my plane so I had to develop a proper lifter for it

L952[15:08:16] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn you just gotta approach correctly

L953[15:08:37] <madmerlyn> when I started aiming my initial trajectory at the mountains instead of the KSC landing became so much easier

L954[15:08:42] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: on that screenshot, everytime I would eject the kerbal, it would simply create a new zombie one...

L955[15:08:52] <madmerlyn> I aim my deorbit burn so trajectories puts its X on the mountains

L956[15:09:04] <madmerlyn> do my 37-47 degree pitch until I'm subsonic

L957[15:09:19] <madmerlyn> which usually puts me right above the mountains at around 17-20km altitude

L958[15:09:50] <madmerlyn> then I push my nose down and descend, usually doing 40 degrees below horizon until I get under 10km then bringing it up to eventually 10 degrees below horizon until I get down to 2km

L959[15:10:10] <madmerlyn> and then just gradually level out until I'm approaching the runway below 200m

L960[15:10:11] <Mathuin> Is there an interrupt key for kOS? Stop what's running and bring me back to a prompt?

L961[15:10:18] <ve2dmn> I brb, I'll need to do a quick run to a friend's house to pick up her mail while she's on vacation.... and I need to shower first

L962[15:10:24] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: CTRL-C ?

L963[15:10:25] <madmerlyn> ctrl+C I believe

L964[15:10:51] <Mathuin> Ever since I learned about kuniverse:reverttolaunch()...

L965[15:11:09] <madmerlyn> my bigger planes I hardly even have to flare to slow down for landing anymore, I've got my approach down so well I'm usually gliding in around 80m/s already without a flare

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L968[15:11:43] <ve2dmn> in the mean time, you can watch the burn while I go take a shower: http://steamcommunity.com/broadcast/watch/76561197994451548/

L969[15:11:49] <ve2dmn> very boring broadcast

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L971[15:12:26] <madmerlyn> another thing to consider with spaceplane design ve2dmn before you run off

L972[15:12:27] <Mathuin> Never watched streaming games before.

L973[15:12:51] <madmerlyn> you can stick a bonus gear, I call them "Landing Assist Gear" that's bound to like AG5 or something farther back on the tail

L974[15:12:57] <madmerlyn> that's not deployed on takeoff

L975[15:13:01] <madmerlyn> to help prevent tailstrikes

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L977[15:13:16] <madmerlyn> it's my solution to there not being multiposition gear in KSP

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L979[15:13:30] <madmerlyn> well for the big planes, for the mk2 planes I just use nose-engines to lift off :P

L980[15:15:59] <madmerlyn> another thing looking at the launch scripts, consider parameters for your target altitude, that way you can just call your script like `run launch1(150000).` if you want to change your target altitude without editing the script

L981[15:16:54] <madmerlyn> top of script just put `parameter orbitHeight is 100000` that way it defaults to 100km if you don't specify the parameter, but you have the option to put a different number in there if you want to

L982[15:17:09] <Mathuin> Oooh, that launch was tuned well enough that when I finished insertion my Pe was 27k!

L983[15:17:31] <Mathuin> 3 second burn to circularize.

L984[15:19:02] <Mathuin> In retrospect, storing a JSON file of settings for ships isn't as good as storing the information on the ships themselves.

L985[15:19:36] <madmerlyn> lol serialization for serialization's sake is not always good no :P

L986[15:20:01] <Mathuin> It's not for serialization's sake, it's a way of storing parameters so I don't have to modify the script, much as you said.

L987[15:20:04] <madmerlyn> really only reason to serialize in something like kOS is if you're trying to do some machine learning or something

L988[15:20:07] <Mathuin> If I could store them _in_ the rocket...

L989[15:21:02] <madmerlyn> just identify things you might want to change on different types of launch scenarios and convert them into variables that are passed through parameters

L990[15:21:34] <madmerlyn> it'd be nice if kOS had a way of building terminal menus, but parameters work well enough in absence of that

L991[15:22:06] <Mathuin> madmerlyn: that's part of why I want kOS Prop Monitor to work.

L992[15:22:12] <madmerlyn> I thought it'd be cool to have a bootloader with a menu to let you select an option that determines which scripts get copied to your kOS computer and executed

L993[15:24:17] <madmerlyn> this looks unfun to fly lol https://i.redd.it/sg5trbcbui601.jpg

L994[15:24:57] <Fluburtur> what is that monster

L995[15:25:18] <madmerlyn> some dude's solution to the problem of "how do I put 3 orange tanks in orbit with a plane in 1 launch"

L996[15:25:28] <Fluburtur> well I guess it works

L997[15:25:50] <madmerlyn> I bet you have to land perfectly to not blow up the runway though :P

L998[15:25:56] <madmerlyn> that's a lot of dry mass heh

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L1003[15:33:15] <Supernovy> Evening, Gentlemen.

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L1006[15:34:28] <Mathuin> Hmmm. The heatshield is on stage -1. W hat's *that* all about?

L1007[15:35:00] <ve2dmn> ok... I'm NOT going out with a cold advisory in effect

L1008[15:35:20] <ve2dmn> I'm sorry for her fishes, but they'll have to eat tomorrow morning

L1009[15:35:29] <Mathuin> Serious business in Canada.

L1010[15:35:31] <umaxtu> how cold?

L1011[15:35:47] <ve2dmn> with or without wind?

L1012[15:35:55] <umaxtu> without I guess

L1013[15:36:02] <ve2dmn> -19C

L1014[15:36:08] <ve2dmn> With: -40

L1015[15:36:21] <Mathuin> Nice thing about -40, you don't need units.

L1016[15:36:42] <umaxtu> true

L1017[15:36:43] <ve2dmn> unless you are talking about -40D

L1018[15:37:07] <ve2dmn> but good thing thoses units died decades ago

L1019[15:37:34] <ve2dmn> negative high hot temperature? what was he thinking?... ho right... russia

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L1021[15:43:50] <madmerlyn> ve2mn if you want to practice SSTO flying with my planes, the Percival is a good one

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L1023[15:44:17] <madmerlyn> thing is so light it usually cuts a donut after I land it with the brakes on

L1024[15:44:29] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231106102693986314/395692816879058944/20171227224059_1.jpg

L1025[15:45:21] <madmerlyn> the Gallahad-L flies really well too, but you gotta get used to it because it's a lot bigger and an off-balanced approach won't end well

L1026[15:45:39] <madmerlyn> but I'm not even sure what the stall speed is, it's somewhere between 50 and 70m/s

L1027[15:45:59] <madmerlyn> and after you balance the nose on initial re-entry it's got plenty of control

L1028[15:46:22] <madmerlyn> mostly due to the Big-S tail-wing canards on it lol

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L1035[15:56:47] <Mathuin> Hmm, wonder if it's more efficient to transition when the Ap distance is reached instead of waiting for the intermediate altitude.

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L1037[15:57:46] <madmerlyn> what do you mean?

L1038[15:58:08] <Mathuin> Right now I gravity turn until 40k at which point I chase Ap maintaining a 60 second distance.

L1039[15:58:21] <Mathuin> But when I reach 40k, I'm at 110 seconds to Ap.

L1040[15:58:31] <Mathuin> Why not start chasing Ap once I'm 60 seconds from it?

L1041[15:59:40] <madmerlyn> now that I think about it I could design a Falcon Heavy booster that behaves the way they want the real one too

L1042[16:00:08] <madmerlyn> 100% all engines on liftoff, throttle down central engine to what.. 20% or whatever shortly after

L1043[16:00:23] <madmerlyn> then push it back to 100% when side boosters detach

L1044[16:02:06] <madmerlyn> yeah I need to work on tuning an efficient ascent though

L1045[16:02:17] <madmerlyn> my vertical rocket script is nowhere near as good as my plane one

L1046[16:02:31] <Mathuin> I am very pleased with my gravity turn script.

L1047[16:03:12] <ve2dmn> the advisory in question: https://weather.gc.ca/warnings/report_e.html?qc67

L1048[16:03:43] <madmerlyn> Mathuin :gimme:

L1049[16:04:09] <JCB> got a little lander probe for the mun. Starting around 14km orbit.. it makes a soft landing with full thrust, maybe about 30seconds of coasting down

L1050[16:04:13] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn I followed you on github, maybe you'll see a PR from me in the near future

L1051[16:04:29] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: ok

L1052[16:04:41] <JCB> I tend to play with rather tight delta V budgets and TWRs..

L1053[16:04:53] <Mathuin> https://hastebin.twilley.org/aqisujuwul.ks

L1054[16:05:02] <Mathuin> madmerlyn: that's the version I am now using.

L1055[16:05:03] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: I also have https://github.com/ve2dmn/AsteroidScanner but it's broken

L1056[16:05:42] <madmerlyn> I saw that, I've not forayed into actual mod development though as most tutorials I've found for KSP mods involve Visual Studio and I use Linux at home

L1057[16:06:03] <JCB> I would love to do some parts and mods stuff myself..

L1058[16:06:24] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: which reminds me: I should split my scripts according to gravity turn alogrithms and just call the needed functions

L1059[16:06:25] <Mathuin> There are folks who mess with mods on Linux.

L1060[16:06:48] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: when I'm pleased this, or it's four o'clock here, I will commit mine to a new repo. Feel free to critique.

L1061[16:06:49] <madmerlyn> they don't write tutorials for others to do the same though :P

L1062[16:06:55] <madmerlyn> I'm not a unity dev, it's all new to me haha

L1063[16:07:01] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: the basic idea: it scans the map for astroids crossing Kerbin and add a KAC alarm

L1064[16:07:31] <ve2dmn> And by crossing I mean <70km

L1065[16:08:16] <madmerlyn> how do you handle circularization? my script points at -1 pitch and switches between -1 and +6 to maintain apo until it's finished

L1066[16:08:42] <ve2dmn> I was trying to add a relevant contract available... either by spawning an asteroid with the relevant orbit or give a premade-contract that give you the next found asteroid as an objective

L1067[16:08:50] <ve2dmn> both idea failed miserably

L1068[16:09:44] <madmerlyn> my KerbalX planes, I haven't tested or updated the Crow for 1.3.1, I like the Hodor better in every metric so I don't use Crow at all anymore

L1069[16:09:55] <ve2dmn> Hodor?

L1070[16:10:00] <madmerlyn> I use Lancelot for crew transfers, Hodor for light cargo

L1071[16:10:14] <madmerlyn> yeah my mk2 cargo drone is called the Hodor Mk1

L1072[16:10:17] <JCB> ... I should maybe see about doing something with my Dynafly...

L1073[16:10:35] <madmerlyn> the original design did happen around a certain door-holding event haha

L1074[16:10:42] <ve2dmn> "Hold door for launch windows"

L1075[16:11:07] <madmerlyn> Hodor has been tested with about 8t of payload to LKO successfully

L1076[16:11:10] <JCB> With my Mule cargo plane.. half tempted to setup an arctic base.. if I can figure out hwo to get stuff to fit the cargo bay and still wheel out on its own without blowing up

L1077[16:11:13] <madmerlyn> it's great for refueling small craft

L1078[16:11:41] <madmerlyn> Gallahad-L does most of the cargo work in my career though

L1079[16:11:58] <madmerlyn> can do at least 18t to orbit and carry 2.5m parts comfortably

L1080[16:12:07] <madmerlyn> and the full sized Gallahad can do 55t

L1081[16:12:34] <madmerlyn> I don't have a lot of launches in that weight class that also fit in a mk3 cargobay though, which is why I developed the L heh

L1082[16:12:36] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: can your script handle polat orbit? or a random direction for a contract?

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L1084[16:13:15] <JCB> My shepard can do somewhat medium to moderately weighted cargo.. I tend to go with more conventional designs usually

L1085[16:13:46] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: at this point zero inclination.

L1086[16:13:52] <Mathuin> Not bad for two days work.

L1087[16:14:16] <ve2dmn> You are even using PIDLoop... not bad :D

L1088[16:14:28] <Mathuin> Kindergarden PIDloop.

L1089[16:14:35] <Mathuin> I'm -> <- this close to ripping it out.

L1090[16:15:01] <ve2dmn> doing manual adjusting is a pain

L1091[16:15:32] <ve2dmn> it's not reponsive enough and you wind up with a up-down-up-down

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L1093[16:15:45] <ve2dmn> (wave-like reponse)

L1094[16:16:15] <ve2dmn> as if you made the Ki too small, if I remember my PID correctly

L1095[16:17:41] <madmerlyn> this is Gallahad-L https://i.imgur.com/xr6ZqDL.png I have since changed the canards a little, clipped them in so they look less awkward

L1096[16:18:14] <ve2dmn> I see you got your ducks in a row there...

L1097[16:18:30] <madmerlyn> and the full sized Gallahad https://i.imgur.com/zUXKYMo.png same story, I've since clipped the canards in for better aesthetics

L1098[16:18:41] <madmerlyn> the canards are still visible, just don't protrude as much

L1099[16:18:55] <JCB> ... space shuttle tail fin as a wing..

L1100[16:19:19] <madmerlyn> and this is the hodor deploying a 700kg probe, which is way below its rated cargo capacity https://i.imgur.com/rm6OLkZ.png

L1101[16:19:30] <JCB> eh.. guess I always thought too thick to be a proper wing..

L1102[16:19:57] <ve2dmn> JCB: it's thinking outside the box.

L1103[16:20:07] <madmerlyn> well the problem with mk3 planes is they tend to have very heavy noses and be long, so you need good control surfaces in the front

L1104[16:20:21] <madmerlyn> I couldn't make a canard that looked better with other stock wings

L1105[16:20:32] <madmerlyn> not that had enough lift to get that monster off the ground anyway

L1106[16:21:07] <madmerlyn> 55t on the full size, can probably do more that's just the biggest payload I've taken

L1107[16:21:23] <madmerlyn> AND it does 55t to orbit with at least 600dv left for maneuvering + deorbit burn

L1108[16:21:43] <madmerlyn> and it flies well enough you can glide it back to runway without powering up the engines if you approach correctly

L1109[16:22:19] <madmerlyn> I've taken a 40t payload to HKO and brought a Gallahad back to the runway

L1110[16:22:44] <madmerlyn> that was before I mastered my landing approach though, that one had some minor runway damage on landing ;)

L1111[16:22:56] <madmerlyn> only lost a few rapiers and a small wing section though

L1112[16:22:57] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: I could use your approach to do space tourism on the cheap

L1113[16:23:21] <madmerlyn> that was the flight that made me think up using "landing assist gears" on the tail to prevent tailstrikes

L1114[16:23:32] <umaxtu> didn't Concorde do that?

L1115[16:24:04] <madmerlyn> maybe? I know most commercial liners have multiposition gear to accommodate needing to pivot on takeoff and preventing tailstrikes on landing

L1116[16:24:05] <JCB> ya.. it had a pair of little 'roller skate' type wheels near the tail

L1117[16:24:44] <JCB> a number of commerial airlines have tail strike skids... might be the odd one out of russia that has a retractable wheel skid

L1118[16:26:05] <umaxtu> it sure was a pretty plane

L1119[16:26:40] <ve2dmn> umaxtu: sadly, not commercially viable

L1120[16:27:23] <umaxtu> what do you think Boom's chances are?

L1121[16:27:34] <JCB> at least not in that form.. though the design was from a long time ago

L1122[16:27:57] <Mathuin> Whoa, the 60s Ap occurs at 14k much earlier than I expected.

L1123[16:28:20] <JCB> heck.. the 747 already left all NA airline carriers... only on international ones

L1124[16:29:08] <madmerlyn> putting 1 extra set of deployable gear on AG5 for my big planes worked wonders though

L1125[16:29:46] <madmerlyn> no more lost engines or other damage from tailstrikes

L1126[16:30:01] <madmerlyn> and still have the primary gear directly under the center of mass so it can pivot on take off

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L1128[16:38:31] <madmerlyn> and here's the Gallahad-LC, the canards on this are more reflective of their current positioning https://i.imgur.com/C800rJU.png

L1129[16:38:49] <madmerlyn> AFAIK it has the same cargo capacity as the standard L model, but also can carry 6 kerbals

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L1131[16:41:08] <ve2dmn> I'm not sure how I'll be able to build the space casino

L1132[16:41:22] <ve2dmn> it's 4 asteroids with 100 kerbal crew capacity

L1133[16:41:28] <ve2dmn> and 24 lights

L1134[16:41:45] <ve2dmn> and 1 docking port

L1135[16:41:48] <JCB> Lol... have a rocket called the '12 pack'... flies 12 passengers and a pilot.

L1136[16:42:56] <JCB> would love to find a large flat area on the mun.. set up some sort of a base.. be nice to have a place to aim for when the mood hits

L1137[16:43:43] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: do you have a model that could fly 12 kerbals in orbit and back down for cheap?

L1138[16:44:01] <madmerlyn> I do but it's still in experimental testing

L1139[16:44:26] <madmerlyn> and it doesn't fly 12, it flies more like 38

L1140[16:44:32] <ve2dmn> JCB: I usually aim for the <insert spoiler place here>. it's flat enough and easy enough to aim for

L1141[16:44:43] <madmerlyn> basically replaced the cargohold on the L with 2 of the 16 seat crew cabins

L1142[16:45:06] <madmerlyn> just needs some tweaking to accommodate for the different dry mass distribution

L1143[16:45:09] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: get Tourism Plus and you'll be rolling in $ in no time

L1144[16:45:56] <madmerlyn> another option ve2dmn

L1145[16:46:30] <madmerlyn> can build a 2.5m based stack, though getting 12 kerbals would require 3 hitchhikers, with its own fuel supply and engine in the full size gallahad

L1146[16:46:53] <madmerlyn> gallahad puts it in orbit, opens cargobay and then it goes off on its own

L1147[16:47:20] <madmerlyn> and in theory you could use that scheme to go to say.. minmus, come back to the gallahad get back in cargobay for a safe landing

L1148[16:47:22] <JCB> while I can land no problem, no shadows needed.. I seem to have troubles getting to places that are somewhat flat. A lot of my landings end up on a slow, sometimes pretty steap

L1149[16:48:02] <JCB> my 12 pack used a set of 6 mk1 crew cabins.. 3 radial in two layers

L1150[16:48:17] <madmerlyn> course if you want to make a really ugly tourism vessel that fits inside the gallahad

L1151[16:48:22] <JCB> centered it around a 'spine' structure..

L1152[16:48:29] <madmerlyn> use the mk1 crew cabins with quadcouplers

L1153[16:48:55] <madmerlyn> could have seats for 16 and still fit in mk3 cargobay

L1154[16:49:04] <ve2dmn> my design are from early in the tech tree

L1155[16:49:05] <madmerlyn> probably be lighter than 3 hitchhikers too

L1156[16:49:21] <ve2dmn> but they work, so I kept them

L1157[16:49:36] <madmerlyn> I haven't gotten a lot of tourism contracts this playthrough

L1158[16:49:48] <madmerlyn> I think the game looks at the contracts you decline and then assigns priority based on that

L1159[16:50:14] <ve2dmn> my funding comes from tourism contracts beause I can automate them

L1160[16:50:17] <madmerlyn> I've gotten a LOT of rescue contracts, a moderate amount of satellite contracts, and a lot of DMagic contracts, not a lot of tourism

L1161[16:50:46] <madmerlyn> I plan on making money by bringing exotic minerals from Mun back to Kerbin

L1162[16:50:49] <JCB> one of my play throughts, got soo many tourist contracts... 12 people wanted to go flying, 10 of those wanted to fly around the mun

L1163[16:50:53] <madmerlyn> 1 2.5m cargo container can net me 1M funds

L1164[16:51:13] <JCB> I ended up building a 'cruise ship' for 10... left it in orbit for later use

L1165[16:51:31] <JCB> brought everyone down on rockets after

L1166[16:52:01] <Mathuin> Rescue contracts are the best, because those jerks become employees.

L1167[16:52:11] <madmerlyn> I think I might go destroy some of my earlier vessels, like I created a fuel tug for delivering fuel from the mun, but it's a bad design and old, I think I need to just blow it up and start fresh

L1168[16:52:13] <ve2dmn> lol

L1169[16:52:37] <madmerlyn> anyway I need to head home, I'll get back on when I'm playing KSP tonight

L1170[16:52:42] <madmerlyn> how long you gonna be around ve2dmn?

L1171[16:52:54] <JCB> those that are stranded, I don't think as 'jerks'... jerks were those that put them there in the first place. Probably some other agency off the side

L1172[16:52:55] <ve2dmn> until maybe 22:00

L1173[16:52:58] <ve2dmn> local time

L1174[16:53:01] <madmerlyn> what local time?

L1175[16:53:05] <ve2dmn> EST

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L1177[16:53:21] <madmerlyn> that's 9pm my time, I'll be on at least an hour before that probably

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L1179[16:54:01] <madmerlyn> JCB I did about 25 rescues, all with a lifeboat system I put in orbit

L1180[16:54:12] <madmerlyn> now.. whenever I design a new variation on my cargo SSTOs

L1181[16:54:18] <madmerlyn> I go and retrieve one of their scraps

L1182[16:54:23] <madmerlyn> since I didn't delete any of them

L1183[16:54:41] <ve2dmn> JCB: in my current game, the FarSide crater of the Mun is the best bet. it's got plenty of Ore, it's on 0 inclination and it's flat 'enough'

L1184[16:54:53] <madmerlyn> when I was testing my SSTO script I did a LOT of flights with my Gallahad-L where all it did was go up and rendezvous with a random piece of space trash and collect it

L1185[16:54:54] <JCB> right now.. one of my careers has a kerbal about 45 lititude on the mun..

L1186[16:55:09] <madmerlyn> EXCEPT for one, it was a 2.5m MKS Tundra Ag module

L1187[16:55:23] <madmerlyn> I actually stuck a claw tug on that one and landed it on the Mun for future use

L1188[16:55:47] <madmerlyn> aight, bbl

L1189[16:55:50] <JCB> I've got gear in LKO... its just wasn't originally designed to go that far from an equator orbit.

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L1192[16:56:35] <JCB> I've placed a fuel station in mun orbit.. and fortunately I had the forethought to add ports to the carrier for additional items, such as more fuel.

L1193[17:01:12] <ve2dmn> Once I finish my high res altimetery scan of the Mun, I'm find you a nice flat place to put a base...

L1194[17:01:22] <ve2dmn> I'm looking for one myslef :D

L1195[17:03:53] <ve2dmn> Fluburtur: I got a small purple asteroid... I've named him Mauviette:https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/907905046846206036/F05AEAEAFED2F7FEB9D22F44C9E0907114D00E64/

L1196[17:04:09] <Fluburtur> nice

L1197[17:04:41] <ve2dmn> it's still 6k tonnes

L1198[17:06:02] <Fluburtur> would be nice to extract different kind of stuff from the magic boulders

L1199[17:09:03] <ve2dmn> my only issue is, at that size, it's *clearly* not 7000m^3

L1200[17:10:53] <ve2dmn> but ART is bugging on me so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

L1201[17:11:18] <UmbralRaptor> ;c 2^3*4/3*3.14

L1202[17:11:18] <kmath> UmbralRaptor: 33.49333333333333

L1203[17:14:11] <JCB> I've considered doing a video on potential landing sites.. what to expect with regards to sun, kerbin locations above the horizon.. maybe some local features

L1204[17:14:13] <ve2dmn> I mean... it's at most 10m x 10m x 10m... and that's a bit exagerated considering the size of the ship beside it

L1205[17:15:01] <ve2dmn> JCB: local feature? "Here we can see the lack of tree... and fauna... and everything basically, except that rock there"

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L1207[17:16:50] <ve2dmn> Fluburtur: cultural question: do you also lack the concept of Valedictorian?

L1208[17:16:59] <JCB> features as in any crater rims, hills, other nearby flat spots.. dangerous slopes..

L1209[17:17:08] <JCB> arch..

L1210[17:17:34] <Fluburtur> I had to google that word and I still don't know

L1211[17:18:11] <ve2dmn> I guess it's an English-only thing then... like the words for each year of college

L1212[17:18:20] <Fluburtur> yeah

L1213[17:18:29] <UmbralRaptor> 1000 m³ would be plausible for a >80% iron asteroid.

L1214[17:18:50] <ve2dmn> UmbralRaptor: at 6000 tonnes?

L1215[17:19:04] <Fluburtur> well I have to go now

L1216[17:19:10] <Fluburtur> full day of car tomorrow

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L1218[17:19:38] <UmbralRaptor> ve2dmn: okay, I can't math.

L1219[17:19:39] <Iskierka> steel is about 8 kg/l, IIRC iron ore is around 4 kg/l, so 6 kg/l isn't nonsense

L1220[17:20:07] <UmbralRaptor> ;c 7000/33

L1221[17:20:07] <kmath> UmbralRaptor: 212.12121212121212

L1222[17:20:23] <ve2dmn> Iskierka: the stats are from ART... but the size of the asteroid changed

L1223[17:20:57] <Mathuin> Okay! Rocket takes off, orbits, and lands based on the scripts. No human intervention. Time to commit.

L1224[17:21:09] <UmbralRaptor> wait, really can't math. iron is 7200 (IIRC) kg/m³, or 7.2 tonnes/m³

L1225[17:21:43] <Iskierka> solids are extremely dense, the only dense parts of a rocket tend to be liquids

L1226[17:21:50] <Iskierka> so it's not unreasonable

L1227[17:21:54] <ve2dmn> UmbralRaptor: check the screenshot... I believe aside from the look of the astroid, the rest is ok-ish

L1228[17:22:07] <Iskierka> the question is if the asteroid would be fluffy at that size

L1229[17:22:50] <UmbralRaptor> ;c 6825/6993

L1230[17:22:50] <kmath> UmbralRaptor: 0.975975975975976

L1231[17:23:09] <UmbralRaptor> I take it back. That's an iceteroid.

L1232[17:24:00] <ve2dmn> btw, the issue I have with USI ART is that the asteroids are generally big when I first encouter and dock...

L1233[17:24:23] <ve2dmn> then I reload and the astroids are back to looking stock, but with the stats of ART

L1234[17:25:17] <ve2dmn> So, like the A-class is 6k tonnes, the B class 35k tonnes and so on

L1235[17:27:05] <ve2dmn> Never managed to find any bug of any sort in the logs to report it to RoverDude :(

L1236[17:27:46] <Iskierka> ... lack of indication in log would ITSELF be a bug to report

L1237[17:27:56] <Iskierka> of course it's not going to report not bothering to load asteroid size

L1238[17:28:35] <ve2dmn> I also got the reverse bug... got one of my ship stuff inside the asteroid

L1239[17:30:27] <Mathuin> Okay! Ship uploaded to KerbalX, scripts uploaded to GitHub.

L1240[17:30:40] <ve2dmn> yeah! Stuff to read!

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L1242[17:31:06] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: https://github.com/mathuin/kOS-scripts https://kerbalx.com/mathuin/Manned-Attempt-2

L1243[17:31:23] <Mathuin> I include recommended parameters for the gravity turn.

L1244[17:31:32] <Mathuin> Feel free to make it suck less. Gotta go do dishes.

L1245[17:31:33] <ve2dmn> I'm more interesting in libs :D

L1246[17:31:47] <Mathuin> lib.ks in that directory may be of use.

L1247[17:31:50] <ve2dmn> Tell your wife some random dude online thanked you

L1248[17:32:03] <Mathuin> I will :-)

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L1251[17:57:47] <Mathuin> She laughed.

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L1254[18:04:49] <Guest50624> Will the new update for consoles include a debugger?

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L1256[18:08:59] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: I would define Constants at the top of the library

L1257[18:09:34] <Mathuin> Which constants?

L1258[18:09:44] <ve2dmn> 9.80665

L1259[18:10:01] <Mathuin> Eh, only used once and for one documented purpose, I'm fine.

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L1261[18:10:19] <ve2dmn> yes, but it is re-usable :D

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L1263[18:13:57] <Mathuin> Now I'm curious where you'd use it.

L1264[18:16:15] <ve2dmn> or you could use the gravity constant of Kerbin, I guess

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L1266[18:25:10] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: but yeah, so far I found nothing obvious

L1267[18:25:53] <Mathuin> Keen. My biggest worries right now is that the code is non-optimal, that it's inefficient for some reason that is obvious to more experienced folks.

L1268[18:26:15] <Mathuin> "Oh, you don't have to do it that way, there's support for an easier way." "Your WHEN THEN is unnecessarily hard working." etc

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L1270[18:32:47] <ve2dmn> well, you have a different approach, so I'm trying to understand if it's more sane then what I'm trying to do

L1271[18:32:48] <Mathuin> There's a neat mod that changes day to night in the VAB. I would rather it set based on the in-game time than when I hit 'p' especially when that happens while I save.

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L1273[18:33:06] <Mathuin> [different approach] If something needs commenting, let me know.

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L1275[18:33:51] <ve2dmn> you follow the AP, I tried to guesstimate loses and minimize them

L1276[18:35:44] <ve2dmn> So far, I'm been unsuccessful, but I still make it into orbit (not without bugs)

L1277[18:35:56] <Mathuin> Which losses are you guesstimating?

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L1279[18:36:26] <Mathuin> I was heavily inspired by the post I cite at the top of the gravity turn script, and by the GravityTurn mod.

L1280[18:36:36] <ve2dmn> You have losses due to drag, and loses due to gravity

L1281[18:36:59] <ve2dmn> if it was airless, I would simply make sure AP was mere seconds in front

L1282[18:37:12] <ve2dmn> (and be as horinzontal as possible)

L1283[18:37:20] <Mathuin> Yeah, that's horrible, I tried that.

L1284[18:37:35] <Mathuin> Setting the intermediate altitude to like 14k where AP is 60s out for the first time.

L1285[18:37:48] <ve2dmn> But Kerbin has an atmosphere, so you have to account for that

L1286[18:38:22] <ve2dmn> so which makes you loses more dV? I tried to find a tradeoff

L1287[18:38:30] <ve2dmn> The code didn't work

L1288[18:38:43] <Mathuin> Did you use PID loops or something else?

L1289[18:38:54] <ve2dmn> no PID.

L1290[18:39:08] <ve2dmn> I did do a lot of data dump and made grpahs

L1291[18:39:26] <Mathuin> OMG

L1292[18:39:43] <Mathuin> That sounds heavy duty

L1293[18:40:25] <ve2dmn> well... I was able to make it into orbit by follwing a simple logic of "at X speed, pitch Y angle"

L1294[18:40:32] <ve2dmn> I was trying to optimise it

L1295[18:40:51] <ve2dmn> That rabbid hole was too much for my small brain

L1296[18:41:22] <ve2dmn> So the code has been sitting there for months and you've convinced me to take another look yesterday

L1297[18:42:04] <Mathuin> Ah, I was enticed by the grace of letting gravity pull me into the turn.

L1298[18:50:47] <ve2dmn> How else would you minimise dV?

L1299[18:51:33] <Mathuin> Using just enough thrust to get me up and pointed in the right direction (tweaking TWR in my code) and choosing the right angle/speed combination were what I was doing.

L1300[18:52:03] <ve2dmn> How would you be sure that is the absolute minimum amount of dV?

L1301[18:52:19] <Mathuin> Repeated simulations.

L1302[18:52:47] <ve2dmn> I was trying to optimse instead

L1303[19:21:24] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: btw, the kOS CPU uses EC. If you don't plan on re-using it, you can use SHUTDOWN.

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L1305[19:23:45] <madmerlyn> alright KSP time

L1306[19:27:02] <Mathuin> Hmm, I will definitely keep that in mind.

L1307[19:27:51] <madmerlyn> one thing I don't like about Lithium on SiriusXM? Beastie Boys.

L1308[19:27:54] <madmerlyn> why were they ever popular.

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L1311[19:29:45] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: I'm not sure you can reboot the CPU though

L1312[19:30:01] <Mathuin> You can put it into standby with the prop monitor, but that's all I know.

L1313[19:30:52] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn here's my spaceplane kOS script, it's a lot of ifs, but it's mostly code from a YouTuber's files that I've just heavily modified. At some point I'll probably build one from scratch https://pastebin.com/zVhhbMnR

L1314[19:32:09] <madmerlyn> the functions.ks import was from the original script, I'll have to look and see if any of it is actually needed

L1315[19:32:47] <madmerlyn> heh not for the SSTO it looks like, it's mostly loops etc. for hovering and landing

L1316[19:33:03] <ve2dmn> I'll finish my rescue mission and then I'll take a look

L1317[19:33:14] <ve2dmn> I'm afraid this kerbal might run out of time

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L1319[19:41:21] <madmerlyn> you should rescue that kerbal with the Percival :D

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L1323[19:54:51] <Iskierka> https://i.imgur.com/0qzJ1Et.jpg

L1324[19:57:48] <madmerlyn> so my spaceplane script definitely not good for the Percival.. lol

L1325[19:57:54] <madmerlyn> first plane it hasn't successfully orbited

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L1327[20:04:59] <madmerlyn> in kOS if you do GROUNDSPEED+VERTICALSPEED do you get the same speed as what's on the navball?

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L1329[20:10:31] <madmerlyn> the answer is yes.

L1330[20:10:32] <madmerlyn> :P

L1331[20:10:42] <madmerlyn> SSTO script now works on the percival

L1332[20:11:05] <madmerlyn> percival is a bit lower thrust than my other planes so it struggles to maintain speed around the 21km altitude threshold

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L1334[20:13:18] <madmerlyn> made orbit with 413m/s left for maneuvering and deorbit

L1335[20:13:41] <madmerlyn> 95km orbit, so that's probably enough for a good rendezvous and return home

L1336[20:16:33] <madmerlyn> now the landing test

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L1344[20:23:24] <ve2dmn> wow... that rescue missing was not what I was expecting

L1345[20:23:55] <ve2dmn> I did everything wrong, but I somehow managed to make it into the mun orbit using mostly RCS

L1346[20:24:26] <madmerlyn> percival is easy to land, confirmed, I'm a much better pilot than I was a year ago, lol

L1347[20:25:06] <ve2dmn> Now I'll have to take my resupply ship that is docked with the mun station, resupply the mun lander and then make it to kerbin in 1 piece

L1348[20:28:52] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn you were asking about a crew hauler, here's my experimental Gallahad: https://i.imgur.com/mYOzxPE.png

L1349[20:29:16] <madmerlyn> 36 seats

L1350[20:30:25] <madmerlyn> going to test my flight script on it and see what adjustments I need to make on it

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L1353[20:40:10] <madmerlyn> looking good so far, coasting to 100km altitude with 1091m/s dv left

L1354[20:40:25] <madmerlyn> and peri is only at -17km so it'll be a pretty small circularization burn

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L1356[20:44:46] <Mathuin> One mildly annoying thing about the probe control room mod is that you can hear the rocket engines as if you were on the craft.

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L1374[21:06:29] <ve2dmn> dammit! just as I finished that rescue mission: "KSP_64.exe has caused an error..."

L1375[21:08:40] <madmerlyn> Gallahad-LC-XL on KerbalX now :)

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L1378[21:09:08] <madmerlyn> not sure why I keep getting disconnected.

L1379[21:09:23] <darsie> ve2dmn: Load last save ;).

L1380[21:10:05] <ve2dmn> took a quicksave before landing

L1381[21:10:13] <darsie> excellent

L1382[21:10:42] <ve2dmn> luckely for me, persitent game was date to just before 'recover craft'

L1383[21:11:17] <darsie> Autosave on crash?

L1384[21:11:42] <ve2dmn> no. Crash on recovering craft

L1385[21:11:59] <ve2dmn> autosave was on landing in the ocean

L1386[21:12:43] <darsie> I mean, does KSP autosave on crash?

L1387[21:12:56] <ve2dmn> no clue. probably not

L1388[21:13:06] <darsie> Maybe not sensible. Might have corrupt data.

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L1396[21:18:32] <ve2dmn> I wonder if the kerbal do anything in USI Life support or Konlies

L1397[21:18:38] <ve2dmn> Kolonies*

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L1399[21:22:09] <madmerlyn> really not sure why I keep getting booted heh

L1400[21:32:28] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: Mathuin https://github.com/KSP-KOS/KSLib/blob/master/stripper/pack.sh

L1401[21:32:46] <ve2dmn> how to fit more script per script

L1402[21:33:07] <madmerlyn> run stripper($5).

L1403[21:33:40] <ve2dmn> Stripper or packer...

L1404[21:34:19] <ve2dmn> the point is to strip the useless bits and pack the same fucntions into a smaller package

L1405[21:35:02] <ve2dmn> it's obvious... there's probably a lot that could be done to improve it, like smaller function names, etc

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L1407[21:40:58] <madmerlyn> so after a guy on discord suggested canards are bad design I'm working on making my gallahads function without them :P

L1408[21:46:11] <madmerlyn> and.. that made it better, lol

L1409[21:50:48] <ve2dmn> they are stabilizer, but they bring the COL in front

L1410[21:52:38] <umaxtu> maybe a reality vs ksp thing?

L1411[21:53:00] <madmerlyn> well yeah in reality canards create turbulence on the wings behind them etc.

L1412[21:53:21] <madmerlyn> in KSP they don't so that's why they work *so* well, according to this guy :P

L1413[21:53:45] <madmerlyn> but my no canard version is actually better so now I'm probably going to have to redesign every plane in the Gallahad family, lol

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L1419[22:11:27] <Blaank> https://media.8ch.net/file_store/cb1770e553288b3b60a6e7254697ea3350659de05e8cb7cec8c031813c502b01.jpg https://media.8ch.net/file_store/51384187f4cf815c5650a3ddd834c8802d5c7507c1bcd0197e9300365e7cf618.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7oMBq1vkCM

L1420[22:11:27] <kmath> YouTube - Bobby Roode - Glorious Domination (Official Theme)

L1421[22:12:07] <Blaank> What are those black blocks?

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L1423[22:12:58] <ve2dmn> They look like insulation

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L1425[22:22:08] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: your Lancelot Mk1 looks a lot like my old spaceplanes

L1426[22:22:22] <madmerlyn> it's one of my old ones :D

L1427[22:22:35] <ve2dmn> Except I used a mix of engines

L1428[22:22:38] <madmerlyn> way too much engine power too hehe

L1429[22:22:44] <madmerlyn> like it could probably work with 2 engines

L1430[22:25:05] <madmerlyn> so my new revisions with the 36 kerbal capacity LC-XL Gallahad

L1431[22:25:27] <madmerlyn> if you refuel it on orbit with just a little bit of fuel

L1432[22:25:32] <madmerlyn> could go to Mun or Minmus orbit

L1433[22:25:35] <madmerlyn> and back

L1434[22:25:53] <madmerlyn> could probably even land on minmus if you're particularly adventurous

L1435[22:26:57] <ve2dmn> yeah, looking at your designs and script, it's clear that I made spaceplanes with not enough engine power

L1436[22:27:30] <ve2dmn> was trying to save dV but I wind up not being able to make it into orbit

L1437[22:27:58] <madmerlyn> I hate SSTOs that require complicated ascent profiles :P

L1438[22:28:11] <madmerlyn> if I have to do a 5km nosedive halfway through it's not a good spaceplane IMO

L1439[22:28:47] <ve2dmn> It just confirmed my suspicions :/

L1440[22:29:04] <ve2dmn> now I'll just have to learn to land properly

L1441[22:29:31] <madmerlyn> since their purpose is to recover all the non-fuel costs, I don't fret too much if having a little more engine power means burning more fuel, because I'm still getting cost per ton of payload below 1k

L1442[22:29:47] <ve2dmn> basically I try to aim too high and overdesign... which usually means lacking something somewhere

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L1444[22:30:31] <madmerlyn> that percival can in theory recover a kerbal from LKO for ~500 funds

L1445[22:34:30] <ve2dmn> I better go to bed. I'm gonna continue this tomorrow morning

L1446[22:35:31] <ve2dmn> We are under a cold advisory... let's just hope I don't lose power overnight.

L1447[22:38:46] <ve2dmn> -40 is no fun

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L1449[22:41:42] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: anyway, I'll think about your launch script... there's probably a better way to write it with triggers

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L1451[22:42:21] <madmerlyn> yeah I need to rewrite it from scratch, like I said it was mostly modified from someone else's script

L1452[22:42:25] <Oneiros> sup

L1453[22:42:28] <ve2dmn> Like, check for air pressure via a sensor and switch engine mode on that trigger

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L1455[22:43:11] <ve2dmn> Oneiros: What's up? Indoor heating

L1456[22:43:47] <Oneiros> outdoor heating here haha

L1457[22:43:54] <Oneiros> you must be in winter

L1458[22:44:32] <ve2dmn> I'm under a cold advisory

L1459[22:44:56] <ve2dmn> take your pic: https://weather.gc.ca/warnings/index_e.html

L1460[22:45:03] <UmbralRaptor> Apparently it's getting down to 230 K?

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L1462[22:45:30] <ve2dmn> UmbralRaptor: close, 247K without the windchill

L1463[22:46:49] <ve2dmn> but it's gonna be below 255K all week

L1464[22:48:01] <Oneiros> oh canada, yeah thats cold

L1465[22:49:39] <Oneiros> we dont get much snow in aus. 10 deg C is very cold here.

L1466[22:49:41] <UmbralRaptor> 265 K here in VA at the moment, and that's plenty cold enough.

L1467[22:50:32] * UmbralRaptor wants to say that the coldest he saw in KC was, uh, 250-253ish?

L1468[22:51:17] * Oneiros is not familiar with Kelvins

L1469[22:51:34] <Oneiros> so what happened to kerbalstuff? did it get shut down

L1470[22:52:18] <UmbralRaptor> The operator took it down.

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L1472[22:54:19] <Oneiros> bummer. i guess spacedock is the goto for modders now?

L1473[22:54:44] <Oneiros> i remember curse was always annoying

L1474[22:55:55] <ve2dmn> Oneiros: You'll also probably be suprised to learn that we heat by electricity

L1475[22:56:38] <Oneiros> lol wat is this sorcery

L1476[22:57:22] <ve2dmn> I remember traumatising people from Belgium with that fact

L1477[22:57:32] <UmbralRaptor> That seems silly anywhere too cold for heat pumps.

L1478[22:57:40] <Oneiros> we have electric heaters here too, but im not aware of any of those boiler type units that seem common up there

L1479[22:58:15] <ve2dmn> UmbralRaptor: at 0.06CAD per kilowatthour, I don't care that much

L1480[22:58:42] <Oneiros> wow, so low

L1481[22:58:57] <ve2dmn> but yeah, below -15C, heat pump are useless

L1482[22:59:07] <Oneiros> i think we're at around 0.22AUD now and its always going up fast

L1483[22:59:54] <Oneiros> plus daily supply fees which pretty much double the costs for a one person flat

L1484[23:00:13] <ve2dmn> supply fees?

L1485[23:01:26] <Oneiros> something like 90c a day just to have electricity supplied from the grid

L1486[23:02:09] <Oneiros> makes me want to work towards a complete solar setup the way prices are going here

L1487[23:03:50] * UmbralRaptor is currently paying more connection fees than anything else. I think it worked out to 0.67 USD/kWh last month.

L1488[23:04:40] <Oneiros> yikes

L1489[23:05:36] <ve2dmn> I'll have to check. I don't think I have theses fees

L1490[23:07:54] <ve2dmn> ha. I do pay that. it's 25CAD per month

L1491[23:08:31] <Oneiros> yeh

L1492[23:09:14] <ve2dmn> last year 1860 kWh x 0.0571 $ + 471 kWh x 0.0868 $

L1493[23:09:38] <ve2dmn> (for 2 months)

L1494[23:10:05] <ve2dmn> and that 25CAD was for 60 days, not for a month

L1495[23:10:41] <Oneiros> so cheap

L1496[23:11:27] <ve2dmn> yeah... well. It's the only thing that's cheap. Internet and Cell phone service are insane

L1497[23:11:36] <cringe> ISS Urine Tank Level: 39%

L1498[23:11:57] <ve2dmn> cringe: what's the historical high?

L1499[23:12:13] <cringe> i don't believe historical data is kept

L1500[23:12:13] <Oneiros> i dont even leave my pc idling for an hour or two because thats an extra 0.1kwh lol

L1501[23:12:20] <cringe> but i've seen it at 97%

L1502[23:12:38] <Oneiros> lol

L1503[23:13:37] <ve2dmn> Another downside of living here: -30C winters and +30C summers

L1504[23:13:52] <ve2dmn> but yeah, at least the cold kills the dangerous stuff

L1505[23:15:12] <ve2dmn> enough of me rambling. Good night.

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L1507[23:17:50] <Oneiros> gn

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