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L1[00:19:04] ⇨ Joins: Althego (~Althego@86FF6A06.dsl.pool.telekom.hu)
L2[00:24:09] <HotSpicySausage> How the heck did the lander modules rendezvous with the ship orbiting the moon?
L3[00:24:17] <HotSpicySausage> and why wasn't it manned?
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L5[00:36:40] <Althego> where, what
L6[00:40:38] ⇨ Joins: Guest87222 (webchat@132.184.66.21)
L7[00:41:39] <Guest87222> tengo un problema no se como actualizarlo a la ultima version alguien que me pueda ayudar
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L10[00:54:28] <Althego> heh
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L39[03:37:11] <Glass|phone> TheKosmonaut: >cyclist cuts me off from the side >omawarisan
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L42[03:52:27] <Deddly> Low-altitude rendezvous is annoying
L43[03:52:39] <Deddly> 50x timewarp is all you get :P
L44[03:54:53] <Deddly> or 10x...
L45[03:55:00] <Althego> time it correctly
L46[03:55:43] <Althego> or go in the other direction. if going below is not possible to catch up, i go above to wait for the target to catch up with me
L47[03:56:04] <Epi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5uTAt_A8BY woa nuts.. works well at 1.5x speed
L48[03:56:04] <kmath> YouTube - The Halifax Explosion - Sixty Symbols
L49[03:56:11] <Deddly> Well that's what I'm doing, but the low time warp makes it take a long time
L50[03:56:13] <Althego> just saw it
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L52[03:56:33] <Althego> was this the video you wanted to link?
L53[03:56:43] <Althego> doesnt seem to be related to 1.5x speed
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L56[04:04:51] <Deddly> OK... invisible manoeuvre marker on the navball. Am I missing something?
L57[04:05:08] <Althego> which one is missing?
L58[04:05:21] <Althego> the blue node target?
L59[04:05:53] <Deddly> Indeed. I think the manoeuvre itself was maybe too small a change in velocity?
L60[04:06:51] <Deddly> I deleted the node and made another one, no problem
L61[04:06:53] <Deddly> Oh well
L62[04:07:26] <Althego> yes when it is too small it vanishes
L63[04:07:33] <Althego> because it would just be all over the place
L64[04:07:38] <Althego> because of floating point errors
L65[04:07:45] <Deddly> I guess that was to prevent it from jumping about
L66[04:08:11] <Althego> also stops the "autopilot" from targeting it when that happens
L67[04:08:28] <Deddly> Yeah, I suppose
L68[04:12:37] <Deddly> Most pleasing moment of my day: Got a 0 m/s rendezvous at low relative velocity and was able to grab a floating capsule with the claw without any corrections or use of RCS
L69[04:13:00] <Deddly> Sorry, I mean I got a 0m rendezvous.
L70[04:20:03] <Eddi|zuHause> i've run a few rescue missions without claw the last time i played
L71[04:20:19] <Eddi|zuHause> just fly close enough, and get the missing person to EVA
L72[04:21:19] <Deddly> Sure, that's a good way to do it too
L73[04:22:05] <Deddly> I prefer not to leave junk in orbit though
L74[04:22:29] <Deddly> If I haven't unlocked the claw, I like to grab the capsule with a cargo bay
L75[04:24:56] <Althego> you can also use landing legs to grab the thing
L76[04:25:00] <Deddly> True
L77[04:25:01] <Althego> and take it down with you
L78[04:25:23] <Deddly> But that's more difficult to design, since capsules come in different shapes and sizes
L79[04:28:13] <Gasher[work]> ahahaa decoupler smashed satellite which detached from the ship earlier
L80[04:28:34] <Deddly> Oops
L81[04:34:34] <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, i still have this annoying google doodle music stuck in my head from yesterday
L82[04:35:02] <Mat2ch> I played it without music :P
L83[04:35:17] <Mat2ch> But I didn't get the shortest solution medals everywhere :|
L84[04:35:52] <Eddi|zuHause> i got a bit stuck on the last medal
L85[04:36:28] <Eddi|zuHause> but all it needed was a pause and going in with a fresh brain
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L87[04:39:37] <Rolf> enjoy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z74OwRy8o9I
L88[04:39:37] <kmath> YouTube - Pizza Night!
L89[04:39:54] <Rolf> yes it is space related. I think. ;)
L90[04:43:27] <Eddi|zuHause> "Son of a Bear
L91[04:43:28] <Eddi|zuHause> vor 1 Tag
L92[04:43:30] <Eddi|zuHause> Can any one explain to me why the pizza floated around, but not the ketchup and other sauces? Hmm." <-- i noticed that, too :p
L93[04:43:48] <Rolf> gasp! it was totally faked!!1!!one
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L95[04:51:06] <Rolf> "Because its a conspiracy. These are the same people who faked the moon landings, hide the fact that the earth is flat, and are controlling the human race by using vaccines that will turn us all Autistic. And they shot Kennedy too. OR, it could be the clearly visible velcro strips on the table. But, hey, thats no fun!"
L96[04:51:19] <Rolf> nice reponose
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L101[05:13:55] <sandbox> the moon is flat
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L104[05:15:55] <Rolf> moon is pizza
L105[05:16:13] <Eddi|zuHause> the moon is made of meat
L106[05:22:56] <Rolf> meat is made from moon
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L108[05:32:19] <sandbox> we are all made of stars
L109[05:44:07] <Rolf> earth is a shallow bowl
L110[05:44:12] <Rolf> otherwise water falls out
L111[05:44:16] <Rolf> or cats push em off
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L113[05:49:15] <Gasher[work]> Rolf, massaraksh
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L117[06:18:58] <Fluburtur> https://78.media.tumblr.com/019a8b59abd7320931543c1672e88aa9/tumblr_nnl2rht7cT1rb5brco1_540.jpg
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L120[06:28:16] <Althego> sports have ended?
L121[06:28:21] <Fluburtur> yes
L122[06:29:56] <Gasher[work]> good
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L137[07:51:33] <Guest75990> how do i copy Mk 3-9 Command Pod (Near Future Spacecraft), Mark1-2Pod (Squad) and mk1pod (Squad) so i can edit the config file
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L148[08:57:17] <Fluburtur> someone just rang the bell and I was never that scared
L149[08:57:32] <Fluburtur> im alone, don't do this to me whoever you are
L150[08:57:42] <TheKosmonaut> Glass|phone: if you’re looking for cops to not be double standard in their application of law when cycling vs when you’re cycling in Japan, you’re going to have a bad time.
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L152[08:58:25] <TheKosmonaut> Since you timed out apparently.
L153[08:58:28] <TheKosmonaut> 23:57:43 <TheKosmonaut> Glass|phone: if you’re looking for cops to not be double standard in their application of law when cycling vs when you’re cycling in Japan, you’re going to have a bad time.
L154[08:58:49] <TheKosmonaut> Or GlsFrg|phone rather.
L155[08:59:00] <GlassYuri> phone vibrated due to the highlight and that shook the connection loose
L156[08:59:17] <TheKosmonaut> Top quality
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L158[09:00:03] <TheKosmonaut> I once had a cop stop me from across the street because I had my hoodie up and he thought I had earphones in
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L160[09:00:30] <TheKosmonaut> When I took the good down he was visibly confused as he fabricated another reason
L161[09:00:43] <TheKosmonaut> The go to is “gimme your ID”
L162[09:00:44] <GlassYuri> TheKosmonaut, I see it as revenge for a few weeks ago when I almost phone walked into a policeman
L163[09:01:09] <TheKosmonaut> 歩きスマホ
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L165[09:01:29] <TheKosmonaut> 止みましょう
L166[09:01:42] <GlassYuri> TheKosmonaut, nobody cared about 歩きスマホ before pokego came out
L167[09:01:52] <TheKosmonaut> Me... not mi
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L169[09:02:03] <TheKosmonaut> GlassYuri: exactly.
L170[09:02:09] <GlassYuri> was so ridiculous watching all the posters suddenly pop up at the train stations
L171[09:02:14] <TheKosmonaut> None of those signs were up till like a week after
L172[09:02:31] <GlassYuri> to be fair a whole lot of people did hurt themselves
L173[09:02:38] <TheKosmonaut> I used to play it. Till even cycling leisurely was to fast for it.
L174[09:02:51] <TheKosmonaut> Heck... you can make it stop the game f you run too fast.
L175[09:03:04] <TheKosmonaut> Turned me off. That and the hackers.
L176[09:03:30] <TheKosmonaut> Unless there really was a guy named D82649201018447 who controlled every gym in my neighborhood
L177[09:04:01] <GlassYuri> TheKosmonaut, even when the no playing while driving warning was new you could get it by standing still if your GPS was inaccurate enough
L178[09:04:38] <TheKosmonaut> GlassYuri: correction... if you have a crap phone. Which you do
L179[09:04:55] <TheKosmonaut> Though, I’m betting it’s just a defect more than anything else
L180[09:04:58] <GlassYuri> also I remember a few times when I was right in the middle of a gym location and the game thought I was drowning in a river or threw myself on some tracks or so
L181[09:05:22] <GlassYuri> TheKosmonaut, should have done something about it while it was still under warranty I guess...
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L183[09:05:28] <TheKosmonaut> I have never heard of anyone with such a crazy GPS position as your phone had. Even with those really cheap phones.
L184[09:05:49] <GlassYuri> how long do they give you warranty here?
L185[09:05:59] <TheKosmonaut> Depends on where you got it
L186[09:06:07] <GlassYuri> sofmap
L187[09:06:17] <TheKosmonaut> Sofmap gave me like a year for my secondhand tv
L188[09:06:52] <GlassYuri> well it's been over two years so it's sure as hell expired now
L189[09:08:08] <GlassYuri> still fine except that my chinese friends urge me to just get a replacement screen off taobao instead of walking around with a cracked one
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L199[09:53:17] ChanServ sets mode: +o on BPlayer
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L202[10:08:10] <UmbralRaptor> ☄Fe http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/3039.htm
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L216[10:58:42] <Guest60369> hello
L217[10:58:43] <Mod9000> Hello, Guest60369
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L221[11:02:31] <sandbox> I respectfully disagree
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L223[11:05:20] * BPlayer undisagrees sandbox
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L227[11:20:17] <Gasher> UmbralRaptor, well that technological period is named bronze age because it was like, the most what they could extract - and the only iron that could be found in more or less pure form was meteoritic it seems
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L229[11:26:42] <ConductingCat> Control the tin, control the bronze age.
L230[11:30:19] <ve2dmn> Control the tin, Control the world
L231[11:33:03] <ve2dmn> If you had access to 1 Unicersity course, which one would you take?
L232[11:33:28] <ve2dmn> I could take 1 course next semester, the joy of working on Campus
L233[11:33:51] <ConductingCat> Anatomy
L234[11:34:39] <ConductingCat> My school only lets med students take it.
L235[11:35:51] <ConductingCat> Most subjects are things you can learn on your own if you know where to look.
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L237[11:38:55] <ConductingCat> Cutting cadavres open is quite a bit more restricted these days.
L238[11:39:24] <Mathuin> "Advanced Topics in Enology" involved a *lot* of wine tasting -- expensive ones too.
L239[11:42:28] <Gasher> ConductingCat, "things you can learn on your own if you know where to look." - that sounded a bit weird in context of anatomy lol
L240[11:44:54] <ve2dmn> I'm thinking either German, Econometry, History of Maths, sign language, Innu (the language), Long term data storage,... or maybe just 'that xml course'
L241[11:45:37] <ConductingCat> I mean, you COULD, but you're probably better off learning from an actual doctor.
L242[11:46:17] <ve2dmn> ConductingCat: Wikipdia has everything
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L244[11:49:16] ⇨ Joins: Ezriilc (~Ezriilc@173.168.39.49)
L245[11:49:34] * ConductingCat dissects wikipedia.
L246[11:53:14] <Mathuin> I once took a class called "Math for Poets" which was really interesting.
L247[11:53:47] <Mathuin> The biggest takeaway from that class: the US Declaration of Independence is written like a geometric proof.
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L249[11:55:29] <Mathuin> My only B in community college was in drawing. That professor was an unprintable mess.
L250[11:55:33] <BPlayer> ...h-how? How dare they spoil mathematics by introducing poetry?
L251[11:56:07] <Mathuin> It was really good!
L252[11:56:32] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: I took 'Stress and Anxiety' during my degree. It was REALLY eye-opening
L253[11:56:42] <Mathuin> I'm in a place where I have to take 12 credits of "nothing" to keep my GRA.
L254[11:57:00] <Mathuin> I wonder if I can audit courses, go there and sit in and do some homework if I feel like it.
L255[11:57:14] <ve2dmn> The TL;DR: "Fight-or-Flight"
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L258[11:58:23] <Supernovy> Evening, Gentlemen.
L259[11:58:36] <BPlayer> Morning, Supernovy!
L260[11:58:45] <BPlayer> (No, not really morning)
L261[12:00:11] <ve2dmn> Of course, the devil is in the details
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L265[12:06:05] <ve2dmn> btw, the joy about learning sign language, is that there is so many of them
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L269[12:11:59] <nibiru> i build rocket and i want next stage but i can not build
L270[12:12:25] <nibiru> and the rocket moter i can build on top but not under it
L271[12:13:08] <nibiru> its like it up site down
L272[12:13:46] <ve2dmn> nibiru: screenshot?
L273[12:14:31] <nibiru> print key do not work:(
L274[12:16:26] <nibiru> i can palce a decouple but not a tank ot rocket motor , but i can pace the rocket moter on top of the rocket
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L280[12:23:49] <nibiru> ve2dmn https://atoemra.home.xs4all.nl/1/ksp1.jpg
L281[12:24:53] <ve2dmn> did you rotate it by accident?
L282[12:25:08] <nibiru> no
L283[12:26:27] <ve2dmn> did you use symmetry to place thoses rockets?
L284[12:28:08] <nibiru> 1 in the center and 6 arond it
L285[12:28:55] <ve2dmn> but those around?, did you use 'x' to make 6 or did you place them 1 by 1 ?
L286[12:29:57] <nibiru> cycle symmetry
L287[12:31:34] <scribbles> This appears to be a longstanding Unity error, but nothing seems to fix it: Switching to resolution 1920x0 failed, trying lower one
L288[12:31:37] <scribbles> anyone seen this one?
L289[12:31:58] <scribbles> even deleted the Squad registry entries and let them be recreated
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L297[12:46:06] <ve2dmn> nibiru: sorry. I'm not sure what the issue is. :/
L298[12:46:17] <ve2dmn> scribbles: did you try turning it off and on again?
L299[12:46:28] <scribbles> yes, yes I did!
L300[12:47:41] <APlayer> Did you try changing the batteries too?
L301[12:48:09] <nibiru> ve2dmn:(
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L303[12:51:23] <ve2dmn> nibiru: I would say delete the parts that are problematic and put them back again
L304[12:52:24] <Althego> https://i.redd.it/r3tmhtc8k4201.jpg
L305[12:54:49] <nibiru> ve2dmn it is not helping
L306[12:55:15] <nibiru> i start a new fresh game and still i have that problem
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L308[12:57:15] <ve2dmn> nibiru: what are you trying to build?
L309[12:57:21] <nibiru> big
L310[12:57:29] <nibiru> more
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L312[12:58:22] <nibiru> yesterday i did not have this problem
L313[12:58:38] <nibiru> somehting did change
L314[13:01:17] <Mathuin> I have two probes in the same location in the same circular orbit. I would like to lower one probe's periapsis for a single orbit in order to cause the probes to be 180 degrees apart in their circular orbit. How do I do the math?
L315[13:01:23] <ve2dmn> Do you use any mod? if you have Steam, did you try doing an integrity check on the files? What if you use other parts and 4 or 8-way sysmetry instead of 6?
L316[13:01:28] <Mathuin> Is this a resonant orbit calculator thing?
L317[13:01:48] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: what is the orbit period?
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L319[13:04:59] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: It's about 2d3h
L320[13:05:18] <Mathuin> Mun semi-synchronous
L321[13:06:16] <ve2dmn> so lower the peri until the orbit is 1d1.5h, make a full orbit, raise the peri back to 2d3h?
L322[13:06:31] <UmbralRaptor> So the lowered one would have a period 1/2 that of the high one, I think.
L323[13:06:37] <UmbralRaptor> what ve2dmn said.
L324[13:06:53] <UmbralRaptor> ;c 0.5^(2/3)
L325[13:06:54] <kmath> UmbralRaptor: 0.6299605249474366
L326[13:06:58] <Mathuin> And that is a resonant orbit. Nice.
L327[13:07:34] <UmbralRaptor> ;c 0.63*2-1
L328[13:07:34] <kmath> UmbralRaptor: 0.26
L329[13:07:59] <UmbralRaptor> So periapsis down to 0.26x the old sma?
L330[13:08:19] <UmbralRaptor> Note: this is wrt to the focus, not the surface.
L331[13:08:21] <Mathuin> That sounds about right.
L332[13:09:49] ⇨ Joins: Draconiator (~musicphre@cpe-184-153-142-221.maine.res.rr.com)
L333[13:10:02] <ve2dmn> I got the idea from someone who made a 4-way GeoStationnary Kerbin array
L334[13:12:28] <ve2dmn> He put the Apo in the righ orbit and raise the peri so that the orbit would take 3/4 of a full Kerbin day
L335[13:13:55] <UmbralRaptor> Yeah, longer times to reach the right orbit may be necessary, due to the finite values of available ΔV and planetary radii.
L336[13:16:28] <ve2dmn> I think there was a moon in KSP where the stationnary orbit is outside of the SOI
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L338[13:19:51] <UmbralRaptor> Several, actually.
L339[13:20:36] <UmbralRaptor> (any tidally locked one)
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L346[13:42:44] <Draconiator> What changed in 1.3.1 that causes me to have no probe control even when I include one at the KSC launchpad?
L347[13:43:09] <ve2dmn> no power?
L348[13:43:21] <ve2dmn> No antenna?
L349[13:43:50] ⇨ Joins: Ezriilc (~Ezriilc@173.168.39.49)
L350[13:49:41] <Draconiator> There is electricity and an antenna
L351[13:49:56] <Mathuin> Does the commnet icon thing at the top show that you are linked?
L352[13:50:53] <Mathuin> And where is the ship in question, in orbit around Kerbin or somewhere else?
L353[13:52:44] <Mathuin> I'm currently flying a probe controlled vessel. It's an RC-001S remote guidance unit.
L354[13:54:43] <Draconiator> ON THE KSC LAUNCHPAD. lol And I am not linked.
L355[13:54:51] <Draconiator> I can't launch because of it.
L356[13:54:51] <Althego> hehe
L357[13:54:54] <Mathuin> Oh!
L358[13:54:59] <Mathuin> Crap. That happened to me once.
L359[13:55:08] <Mathuin> Wihch probe are you using?
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L361[13:56:10] <Draconiator> RC-001S I may change it though
L362[13:56:21] <Mathuin> What antenna are you using?
L363[13:56:31] <Mathuin> And do you have any mods that might muck things up?
L364[13:56:45] <Mathuin> Hrm, that unit has its own antenna, that shouldn't be a problem.
L365[13:57:44] <Draconiator> I have two high gain antennas strapped on to hunt down the problem...No good.
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L367[13:58:36] <Mathuin> And you do have electricity?
L368[13:58:41] <tawny> maybe you don't have electricity cross-feed between your batteries and the probe part?
L369[13:58:44] <Mathuin> Is the probe in hibernation?
L370[13:59:04] <Althego> the probe usually has a tiny amount of charge tht is enough for minutes
L371[13:59:43] <tawny> yeah, but I was thinking maybe something was using it up quickly, like a reaction wheel
L372[13:59:47] <ve2dmn> Draconiator: screenshot?
L373[14:00:03] <Mathuin> If you do screenshot, select the RC-001S so we can see all the things on it.
L374[14:00:40] <Mathuin> non sequitre: first stage was enough for launch, circularization, plane alignment and Hohmann -- plus 10 m/s
L375[14:00:56] <tawny> nice
L376[14:01:29] <Mathuin> Popped it off, fine-tuned my approach, and now the first stage will collide with Mun and not be space junk.
L377[14:02:09] <Draconiator> Flub if I can't solve this I hope you don't mind kamikaze Kerbals
L378[14:02:25] <Draconiator> https://i.gyazo.com/d70fbadb017690d58adfd5fa731e6414.png
L379[14:02:44] <Draconiator> Probe is right under the adapter
L380[14:02:44] <Fluburtur> use relay sats then
L381[14:03:05] <Fluburtur> also doesn anyone have a problem with planes bouncing when they load?
L382[14:03:09] <Mathuin> Yes!!
L383[14:03:19] <Fluburtur> you know a solution?
L384[14:03:30] <Mathuin> I don't save when I'm landed. Workaround, not solution.
L385[14:03:41] <Fluburtur> looks like the wheel spawn under the terrain so I guess moving them up a bit would work but didn't try yet
L386[14:04:18] <Draconiator> Relay sats may work....they won't be part of our save but apparently we need them lol
L387[14:04:46] <Fluburtur> targetting them could be a thing
L388[14:04:56] <Fluburtur> mostly targetting spy sats tho
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L390[14:05:24] <ve2dmn> Draconiator: is the probe in hibernation?
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L392[14:07:38] <Draconiator> No it isn't.
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L394[14:08:03] <ve2dmn> Draconiator: did you try turning it off and on again?
L395[14:09:30] <Mathuin> How wide is the interplanetary launch window? Like hours, or seconds?
L396[14:10:18] <Supernovy> Depends on how on the planets involved, and how much delta-v you're willing to spend.
L397[14:10:21] <tawny> depends
L398[14:10:39] <tawny> with enough fuel, you CAN get from anywhere to anywhere in a straight line (as straight as lines get in orbits, at least)
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L402[14:12:30] <Leveller> Good evening, Supernovy.
L403[14:12:31] <Supernovy> The bigger the target SoI, the larger the window (for getting an encounter of some sort)
L404[14:12:34] <kuzetsa> Mathuin: porkchop plots are good for finding how much dV you'll spend if you miss the most optimum point for a launch window
L405[14:12:39] <Leveller> Oh you just disconnected by misstake.
L406[14:12:41] <Leveller> Damn.
L407[14:12:56] <APlayer> Mathuin: Basically, there is no such thing as a launch window. You just have a given set of trajectories you can follow, and the farther from the optimum you are, the more dv you need to spend
L408[14:13:32] <Draconiator> Yes, the button won't work. and I just put a relay in orbit.
L409[14:13:49] <kuzetsa> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porkchop_plot -- there are mods and external calculators (which would need your savedfile, or info from the savefile) which can generate a porkchop plot
L410[14:13:51] <Draconiator> and STILL won't work...I exited out for a bit, was frustrating me
L411[14:13:59] <kuzetsa> I don't know which ones are most current off the top of my head
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L413[14:14:01] <APlayer> As a rule of thumb, though, the dv difference within a few days is below 100 m/s, unless you're going to Moho or need to execute a complex flyby maneuver
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L416[14:14:17] <tawny> ....maybe you need to upgrade your tracking station or something? Idk, this seems very strange
L417[14:14:39] <APlayer> kuzetsa, Mathuin, you may want to have a look at Alexmoon's launch window planner
L418[14:15:05] <APlayer> It needs no info from your savegame, it already includes all stock planets.
L419[14:15:25] <APlayer> You may enter custom planets, though. By hand, that is.
L420[14:16:10] <kuzetsa> tawny: wow that's such a pretty porkchop
L421[14:16:12] <kuzetsa> thanks!
L422[14:16:26] <tawny> ...did I link anything?
L423[14:17:16] <kuzetsa> you mentioned it
L424[14:17:24] <kuzetsa> oh wait, APlayer did
L425[14:17:26] <kuzetsa> my mistake
L426[14:18:12] <APlayer> LOL tawny, no taking credit for my links! :P
L427[14:18:12] <kuzetsa> I mismatched the wrong name (previous line) with the mention I was thinking of
L428[14:18:50] <ve2dmn> I use https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/84005-13x-transfer-window-planner-v1620-may-30/
L429[14:19:01] <kuzetsa> APlayer: blame my lack of color-coding of lines for different people's respective messages
L430[14:19:13] <kuzetsa> ... or other methods to reduce mis-identification
L431[14:19:35] <APlayer> ve2dmn: There is a, IMO better version of that online. In fact, this in game one was ported from the online one.
L432[14:19:55] <APlayer> kuzetsa: I was just kidding, no worries. ;-)
L433[14:20:11] * APlayer loves silly jokes, and especially cheesy puns
L434[14:20:18] <kuzetsa> I like cheese
L435[14:20:19] <ve2dmn> APlayer: I like having it handy in-game, because it can auto-add KAC info
L436[14:20:28] <kuzetsa> oh! there's cheese in the house. excellent.
L437[14:20:33] <ve2dmn> I like trains
L438[14:20:59] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Yeah, that's the one large benefit of the ingame one, it integrates well. But I found the lack of possibility to open multiple instances of it very limiting with advanced trajectories
L439[14:21:23] <kuzetsa> ve2dmn: those aren't as tasty... and you would need a bigger house for real ones
L440[14:21:27] <APlayer> In particular when planning a return trip and it is on a time budget
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L444[14:22:05] <APlayer> Anyway, I have a long term goal to re-implement this, for one to learn the maths, and for two to get more control and plot custom trajectories
L445[14:22:06] <Mathuin> APlayer: I will check it out. It was the source for the dV map I use, I think.
L446[14:22:47] <APlayer> Mathuin: It really is better for planning than dv maps, and I am certain this is not subjective
L447[14:22:50] <ve2dmn> APlayer: code it in kOS :P
L448[14:23:02] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Yeah, that's the plan
L449[14:23:29] <APlayer> Or JS, with a kOS counterpart and manual data transfer, to allow for an actual porkchop plot
L450[14:24:10] <ve2dmn> "Hey Kerby! I want to go to Duna" kOS: "Setting timer, KAC alarms and windows."
L451[14:24:42] <tawny> haha
L452[14:25:13] <APlayer> "OK, Alexmoon"
L453[14:25:58] <APlayer> Nah, I really just want the ability to programmatically link multiple plots together
L454[14:26:43] <ve2dmn> Like a doing a Kerbin-with-Eve-intercept-transter-to-Mono ?
L455[14:26:57] <APlayer> kOS has the huge benefit of integrating right into my mission, also programmatically, but the huge drawback that I cannot have a porkchop GUI (or can I? IIRC it only allows for standard GUI elements so far?)
L456[14:27:22] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Most recent use case, Duna mission and back in 426 days constraint
L457[14:27:51] <ve2dmn> time to write your own mod
L458[14:27:52] <tawny> why 426 days specifically?
L459[14:27:59] <tawny> oh, was that just a contract length
L460[14:28:00] <APlayer> Spent like two hours frantically clicking and cross-checking two tabs of the launch window planner, and I'm afraind the trajectory still was sub-optimal
L461[14:28:15] <APlayer> tawny: Not really. Kerbalism
L462[14:28:21] <tawny> ah
L463[14:28:45] <APlayer> Set myself a "realism" constraint to protect the Kerbonauts from radiation and such
L464[14:29:00] <APlayer> Little did I know that radiation counters get reset after a mission
L465[14:29:01] <APlayer> :P
L466[14:29:34] <tawny> if only it worked that way in real life
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L470[14:29:49] <APlayer> Also, since I am trying to revive this very same mission right now, I will need such an ability rather soon
L471[14:29:52] <tawny> "hey we're going to cure your cancer by flying you up into space and back real quick"
L472[14:29:59] <tawny> "trust me on this one, I'm definitely a real doctor"
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L474[14:30:31] <ve2dmn> a SPACE doctor
L475[14:30:37] <APlayer> And I am doing the mission the _proper_ way this time. Fully scripted, no shortcuts, actual algorithms at work, realism constraints
L476[14:31:09] <APlayer> AKA poor man's RO emulation, done by role playing :P
L477[14:32:11] <ve2dmn> As long as you are having fun
L478[14:32:35] <APlayer> (I mean, I do have RO, but the mods just don't work well together in such quantities. Also, full RO is a tad complicated for me, I somehow dislike the avionics and stuff. Not even those in my non-RO install, but can't help that)
L479[14:33:16] <ve2dmn> yet some players do JUST planes in KSP
L480[14:33:38] <APlayer> By avionics I mean the special requirements for launch vehicles
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L484[14:34:07] <APlayer> I do enjoy the occasional plane or two, I once had nice fun with homemade missiles too
L485[14:34:20] <ve2dmn> I find SSTO too hard
L486[14:34:30] <Althego> not too hard
L487[14:34:34] <Althego> making it useful is hard
L488[14:34:37] <APlayer> https://imgur.com/a/iaFv7
L489[14:34:40] <Althego> in stock ksp at least
L490[14:34:40] <APlayer> There we go
L491[14:34:44] <ve2dmn> I always run out of fuel... or I'm not able to transport more then 0.000001grams
L492[14:34:54] <APlayer> SSTO planes are, IMHO, harder than rockets
L493[14:34:57] <APlayer> And less useful
L494[14:35:34] <APlayer> Also, try KScale64 or another large solar system. It makes you appreciate the early days of easy SSTO making
L495[14:35:59] <APlayer> Also, the lower atmo-height to planet-radius ratio makes things considerably nicer
L496[14:36:40] <ve2dmn> Kerbin is dense enough to be mostly Neutronium
L497[14:37:33] <Fluburtur> well apparently the craft bounce on load is a known bug
L498[14:37:39] <Fluburtur> but not all crafts get it too bad
L499[14:37:55] ⇨ Joins: transitbiker (~transitbi@pool-98-115-189-119.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
L500[14:37:58] <transitbiker> bwoop
L501[14:37:59] <tawny> KJR helps with that a tiny bit, for me, but usually instead of bouncing they tend to tilt weirdly
L502[14:38:35] <tawny> I think the last ssto plane I made just barely managed to get into orbit and back
L503[14:38:42] <Fluburtur> bwoop
L504[14:38:47] <tawny> and then I screwed up the landing, predictably
L505[14:39:18] <ve2dmn> tawny: before I had to worry about burnin up, I had a nice SSTO that I liked
L506[14:39:43] <ve2dmn> It wasn't good, but I was somewhat proud of it
L507[14:40:04] <transitbiker> developing a series of passenger jets based on a similar platform... i have two different twin jet configs, and one that is automated and uses a single Goliath
L508[14:40:53] <ve2dmn> my biggest issue? I try to build planes with a nuke engine to do single-fuel
L509[14:41:03] <ve2dmn> It never really works :/
L510[14:41:20] <transitbiker> thats like making an ion powered plane
L511[14:41:35] <transitbiker> you can do it, but, it never really works
L512[14:41:57] <APlayer> Hence you build railgun planes
L513[14:42:09] <ve2dmn> transitbiker: it has other engines for in-air flying
L514[14:42:12] <APlayer> With one more onboard railgun charge to circularize orbit
L515[14:42:34] <ve2dmn> but that nuke has too little TWR and is too heavy to make it to space
L516[14:42:39] <transitbiker> would be cool if the next update starts to work on higher power output electrical generation stuff
L517[14:43:04] <APlayer> transitbiker: Check out Nertea's Near Future Technologies suite
L518[14:43:07] <ve2dmn> I want a solar sail :D
L519[14:43:15] <Fluburtur> I want bigger wings
L520[14:43:31] <APlayer> Amazing mods, never had problems with them, integrate well, nice balance and it seems like it's exactly what you are looking for
L521[14:43:42] <ve2dmn> I want bigger rockets
L522[14:43:55] <transitbiker> i would like an arc reactor or something similar, maybe limit how it can be mounted
L523[14:44:02] <APlayer> ve2dmn: SpaceY
L524[14:44:34] <ve2dmn> i want a pony
L525[14:44:35] <Fluburtur> I would like a electricity generator that needs cooling
L526[14:44:38] <APlayer> transitbiker: Not sure what an arc reactor is, but NFT (specifically, Near Future Electrical) has nuclear reactors
L527[14:44:45] <transitbiker> i am afk on minecraft at my chicken egg farm while playing ksp, surprisingly no lag
L528[14:44:56] <APlayer> Fluburtur: ^ they do need cooling
L529[14:45:05] <transitbiker> iron man uses arc reactors to fly
L530[14:45:07] <Fluburtur> yes but stock
L531[14:45:23] <ve2dmn> transitbiker: single player or server minecraft?
L532[14:45:33] <transitbiker> empire minecraft server
L533[14:45:36] <APlayer> Well, can't give you that
L534[14:45:42] <ve2dmn> never heard of it
L535[14:45:57] <transitbiker> its in the top 20 global multiplayer servers
L536[14:46:07] <ve2dmn> I usually hate playing with other people because I like to have thing look 'mostly natural'
L537[14:46:24] <Fluburtur> sometimes I go with friends on a server
L538[14:46:43] <Fluburtur> we go very far away from the stuff other peoples made and build a nice house
L539[14:46:58] <Fluburtur> most often half built inside a mountain
L540[14:47:04] <ve2dmn> And other minecraft players sometimes build giant minecraft tracks floatting in mid-air
L541[14:47:08] <Fluburtur> with a bunch of secret rooms
L542[14:47:14] <ve2dmn> (and other stuff like that)
L543[14:47:47] <transitbiker> there are 3 different areas, a wilderness for building, a town for developing a house and having a place to start out - if you pay a fee you can have up to four areas in the town to work with, then there is the wasteland which is where you harvest materials from, it gets reset every so often to renew all the depleted stuff
L544[14:48:18] <ve2dmn> transitbiker: sounds like a few other servers I saw
L545[14:48:36] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Anyway, back to programming talk, that's likely the case with any proper language, but I only know JavaScript enough to be at the point where I can appreciate the benefits of accumulating nice and useful goodies over time, and being able to re-use them in future projects
L546[14:49:29] <transitbiker> its not. i visited like 30 different mp servers till i found this one - it's really protective of individual player activities, for example you cant break blocks without that player's permission
L547[14:49:33] <ve2dmn> I try to stay away from Javascript
L548[14:49:41] <APlayer> Why?
L549[14:50:22] <APlayer> Easy graphics ( *easy graphics* ), nice processing power, more or less clean, OOP is good enough
L550[14:50:50] <transitbiker> the java version of the game is the most popular
L551[14:51:17] <ve2dmn> transitbiker: I bought it before it was anything but java
L552[14:51:34] <transitbiker> there is the non-java version meant for consoles & mobile devices, and windows 10
L553[14:51:53] <transitbiker> i dont like the non-java version, redstone doesnt work right
L554[14:52:06] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Also, I think node.js is the next easiest thing for desktop applications after some BASIC flavours
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L556[14:53:00] <APlayer> Although I so far stick to browser based execution, never got around to install node.js on my machine. Chrome does just as well, and I never really needed desktop apps yet
L557[14:53:09] <ve2dmn> APlayer: I've done too much C, C++, C#... I would need to un-learn things for me to not be frustrated in Javascript
L558[14:53:24] <APlayer> I see
L559[14:53:26] ⇦ Quits: Draconiator (~musicphre@cpe-184-153-142-221.maine.res.rr.com) ()
L560[14:53:45] <transitbiker> i do get a bit burned out from playing constantly in survival, so it's nice to play in creative now and again - allows me to test things and try different ideas without endlessly gathering resources and dying
L561[14:53:46] <ve2dmn> (Not saying it's a bad languages, but I had too many bad experiences)
L562[14:53:56] <APlayer> JS does definitely not offer the low level control you may be used to from C-*something* languages
L563[14:54:25] <transitbiker> the future of the web is java & html5
L564[14:54:47] <transitbiker> so dont be shocked to see more and more games to run on such
L565[14:55:11] <APlayer> Anyway, if C++, C, C# or Java had any sort of easy-to-get-started way to develop desktop apps, I'd not hesitate to switch to that
L566[14:55:21] <ve2dmn> APlayer: it also tries to be too clever for me... like in the case of (x == "1")
L567[14:55:31] <transitbiker> have you tried swift?
L568[14:55:45] <APlayer> ve2dmn: Uh, you mean it converts string to number?
L569[14:55:51] <APlayer> Or vice-versa?
L570[14:56:21] <ve2dmn> automatically...
L571[14:56:42] <ve2dmn> I expect an error in a case like this... some I have trouble debugging the code :/
L572[14:56:43] <APlayer> You may prevent that by using (x === "1"), also called "strict comparison". If you use code quality tools like JSLint or so, they immediately complain unless you use the triple =
L573[14:57:12] <APlayer> Analogous, !==
L574[14:57:28] <ve2dmn> I'm fine with it 90% of the time... but that 10%... is really annoying
L575[14:58:19] <ve2dmn> Anyway. theses days, you have the choice of over 100 different language to code in.
L576[14:58:27] <ve2dmn> back in my days...
L577[14:58:38] <APlayer> C was the boss?
L578[14:58:47] <ve2dmn> I'm not that old
L579[14:59:01] <APlayer> Also, IIRC Python is rather old too?
L580[14:59:37] <APlayer> transitbiker: What is swift?
L581[15:00:20] <transitbiker> it's a way to quickly assemble applications
L582[15:00:29] <ve2dmn> Swift is an apple-only thing
L583[15:00:53] <tawny> no I'm pretty sure it's a type of bird
L584[15:01:31] <ve2dmn> I'm just glad we aren't doing things in APL
L585[15:02:14] <APlayer> transitbiker: Ah, I see
L586[15:02:23] <ve2dmn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_programming_languages
L587[15:02:27] <ve2dmn> take your pick
L588[15:02:35] <APlayer> Well, TBH I prefer JS over that because it seems more solid to me
L589[15:02:43] <transitbiker> FORTRAN for lyfe
L590[15:03:37] ⇨ Joins: Guest81852 (webchat@152.115.93.116)
L591[15:03:51] <Althego> modern fortran is not too bad
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L593[15:04:09] <Althego> but i was stuck with some strange dialects around f77
L594[15:04:27] <transitbiker> o.o
L595[15:05:22] <ve2dmn> Have you ever seen APL?
L596[15:05:26] <Althego> yes
L597[15:05:30] <Althego> not in real life
L598[15:05:39] <Althego> just the famous game of life code
L599[15:05:41] <transitbiker> apl?
L600[15:05:56] <ve2dmn> it looks like this: L←S⌽(−(⍴L)+0,X)↑L
L601[15:06:03] <Althego> that is the game of life in apl
L602[15:06:07] <transitbiker> algebra?
L603[15:06:07] <ve2dmn> you need a special keyboard to program in it
L604[15:06:09] <Althego> a single line of code
L605[15:06:16] <ve2dmn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language)
L606[15:06:35] <tawny> what an odd language
L607[15:06:39] *** mikeprimm is now known as zz_mikeprimm
L608[15:06:43] <Althego> they came up with this completely seriously
L609[15:06:45] <Mathuin> They had *just* gotten rid of that -- and punch cards -- a couple of years before I went to college.
L610[15:06:49] <ve2dmn> Lottery, 6/40: x[⍋x←6?40]
L611[15:06:58] <Althego> the funniest language is intercal
L612[15:07:10] <Althego> but ok it exists solely for the intentionally funny manual
L613[15:07:20] <ve2dmn> This is the one-liner Game-of-life in APL: life←{↑1 ⍵∨.∧3 4=+/,¯1 0 1∘.⊖¯1 0 1∘.⌽⊂⍵}
L614[15:07:41] <Althego> ok, doesnt matter, incomprehenshible
L615[15:08:02] <Althego> perl can be really ugly sometimes too
L616[15:08:59] <APlayer> Malbolge is the ultimate language to rule them all
L617[15:09:18] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/254984631512858634/387712004116316171/Sans_titre_2.png
L618[15:09:31] <Althego> for unusability, yes
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L620[15:09:46] <Althego> the first program was found by a genetic algorith, several eyars after the language was invented
L621[15:09:59] <Althego> yes for awacs
L622[15:10:46] <Althego> i have a small ne3a on my desk here. one of my coworjers got it for me when i left, we worked on related projects for a long time
L623[15:11:39] <Fluburtur> well crap
L624[15:11:50] <Althego> this is frisbee radar, how do you read? loud and clear
L625[15:11:51] <Fluburtur> I have 3 planes that bounce on load and so are unusable
L626[15:12:01] <Althego> bounce?
L627[15:12:17] <Fluburtur> two of them are my light fighters and one is my high speed recon/bomber
L628[15:12:18] <Fluburtur> yeah
L629[15:12:29] <Fluburtur> when they load they bounce into the air and fall and explode
L630[15:12:32] <RandomJeb> you load them and they leap from ground collision
L631[15:12:37] <Althego> lol
L632[15:12:51] <Althego> turn on low gravity
L633[15:14:39] ⇨ Joins: petti (petti@bot.kapsi.fi)
L634[15:14:40] <RandomJeb> I don't think I have any proper fighters that will even load in 1.3.1
L635[15:15:13] <Fluburtur> well one wing fell off the radar plane on load
L636[15:15:24] <Fluburtur> they all have a slight bounce but some are worst than others
L637[15:16:11] <RandomJeb> I have a hypersonic bomber that can do a high atmosphere hop to get to target fast or escape a squadron of nimble dogfighters
L638[15:16:20] <RandomJeb> that's almost as good as a fighter
L639[15:16:22] <transitbiker> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Selectric-iii-balls.jpg
L640[15:16:30] ⇨ Joins: mucco_ (~mucco@93-35-195-163.ip56.fastwebnet.it)
L641[15:16:36] <Althego> hehe the typewriter heads
L642[15:20:35] <transitbiker> trying to figure out which engine mounting and engine to go with
L643[15:21:22] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRCNenhcvpw
L644[15:21:23] <kmath> YouTube - IBM Selectric Typewriter & its digital to analogue converter
L645[15:22:27] ⇦ Quits: mucco (~mucco@93-35-195-163.ip56.fastwebnet.it) (Ping timeout: 383 seconds)
L646[15:27:17] <transitbiker> im really struggling to figure out how to power this thing
L647[15:27:47] <Althego> 400 hz 115 v? :)
L648[15:28:00] <transitbiker> too noisy
L649[15:29:08] <transitbiker> i like the way 25 hz traction power sounds when the wires get wet in a misting rain
L650[15:29:38] <transitbiker> sounds like electric cat purring
L651[15:29:46] <Althego> lol
L652[15:30:13] <APlayer> Electricat
L653[15:30:42] <transitbiker> the current tries to travel through the water, and the resultant vibration gives off the sound
L654[15:31:23] <APlayer> So it basically starts losing large amounts of energy to sound waves and whatnot?
L655[15:31:36] <Althego> and why is it 25 hz?
L656[15:31:50] <transitbiker> nah, its just like the wire got a tiny tiny bit thicker
L657[15:31:51] <Althego> isnt the usa grid 60 hz?
L658[15:32:14] <ve2dmn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tNcp9-oQ6o
L659[15:32:15] <kmath> YouTube - How Computers Revolutionized Space Travel
L660[15:32:25] <transitbiker> because originally electric motors, especially large ones used in locomotives and whatnot were better suited to lower frequencies
L661[15:33:21] <transitbiker> the first electric power station at Niagara falls was 25 hz, and in fact parts of southern ontario had 25 hz grid for industrial use till recently
L662[15:33:46] <Althego> that is why the 16.666 hz train grids in some contruies?
L663[15:33:52] ⇦ Quits: Gasher (~Gasher@broadband-46-188-123-145.2com.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L664[15:34:29] <transitbiker> i believe that is used in central europe
L665[15:34:37] <transitbiker> and yes
L666[15:35:24] <transitbiker> rebuilding the infrastructure and purchasing all new motive power would be quite the financial undertaking, and likely cause significant disruption in rail travel
L667[15:36:26] ⇨ Joins: Scolar_Visari (webchat@64.20.133.215.dyn-e-pool6.pool.hargray.net)
L668[15:36:27] <Scolar_Visari> Sons and daughters of Kerbin: On a world, surrounded by space, three Kerbals will be launched into orbit. This summer, action reaches escape velocity in KERBAL SPACE PROGRAM.
L669[15:36:36] <transitbiker> with amtrak and the commuter agencies, the equipment can run on 25 or 60 hz, so replacing the more vital parts needed for regular operation is not as urgent
L670[15:37:30] <transitbiker> there is a youtube video that explains the development of different grid standards
L671[15:37:39] <transitbiker> several, actually
L672[15:38:14] <transitbiker> europe uses 50 hz, right?
L673[15:38:35] <transitbiker> what is 50 divided by 3?
L674[15:38:35] <APlayer> Yep
L675[15:38:49] <APlayer> 16.6667?
L676[15:38:51] <Scolar_Visari> 16 point 6 repeating
L677[15:38:52] <APlayer> IIRC?
L678[15:38:57] <APlayer> Yay!
L679[15:39:08] <transitbiker> and thats why the rail lines use that frequency
L680[15:39:17] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: You missed infinite figures, your answer is off!
L681[15:39:38] <APlayer> Awww :-(
L682[15:40:19] <Scolar_Visari> Moar earth-likes https://phys.org/news/2017-12-super-earths-star-k2-.html
L683[15:40:26] * APlayer goes on a random ban spree out of frustration
L684[15:40:40] <transitbiker> the compromise between lower frequency for industrial uses and higher for incandescent electric lighting ended up with the rail lines having that number, and as industry modernized, even the 25 hz grid was disused, so all you got left is the 16.66666 used by the trains
L685[15:41:01] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Is a banspree like spreading glitter into people's houses?
L686[15:41:05] <transitbiker> and they lives happily ever after
L687[15:41:36] <transitbiker> glitter is a global plastic accumulation and pervasion hazard
L688[15:41:50] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: It's like throwing banhammers in random directions and hoping they hit someone
L689[15:41:59] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Oh . . . So like Thor with Mjolnir?
L690[15:42:04] <Scolar_Visari> Thor: Lord of hammers!
L691[15:42:06] <APlayer> Basically, yes
L692[15:42:13] <Althego> we have 25 kV 50 Hz for trains
L693[15:42:19] * transitbiker pictures thor tossing hammer in all different directions
L694[15:42:38] <Scolar_Visari> Thor tossing hammers is pretty much the opening to Ragnarok.
L695[15:42:42] <APlayer> Picture not the throwing, but the conjecture of new hammers
L696[15:42:44] <Althego> but it could be anything, the railroad has its own powergrid
L697[15:42:47] <transitbiker> dude that movie
L698[15:42:53] <transitbiker> so awesome
L699[15:43:09] <Scolar_Visari> Truly a missed opportunity. Thor could've gotten away with saying, "hammer time".
L700[15:43:32] * Scolar_Visari awaits a similar opportunity in Avengers III: The Quest for More Money
L701[15:43:35] <transitbiker> althego where are you?
L702[15:43:43] <Althego> in hungary
L703[15:43:50] <transitbiker> speaking of such, they are making a spaceballs 2
L704[15:43:55] <Althego> are they?
L705[15:43:58] <transitbiker> they are
L706[15:44:15] <Althego> it was so they only make it if rick moranis is willing to do it
L707[15:44:23] <APlayer> When employing the Ziegler-Nichols PID tuning method, how important is it to get Ku exactly? May it be slightly higher than just on the verge of oscillations?
L708[15:44:27] <transitbiker> with all the renewed star wars stuff, it was only a matter of time
L709[15:44:52] <Althego> it is just a rule of thumb anyway
L710[15:45:03] <APlayer> Okay then
L711[15:45:07] <transitbiker> he actually quit acting to be with his family some years ago, but i hope he does make a comeback
L712[15:45:25] <transitbiker> loved him in SCTV
L713[15:49:06] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Wait . . . I thought you were from Austria-Hungary!
L714[15:49:18] <Althego> lol
L715[15:49:20] <APlayer> So, what are the benefits and drawbacks of individual Zigler-Nichols rules? I.e., the multiple rows in this table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziegler���Nichols_method
L716[15:49:38] <Althego> robo hungarian empire
L717[15:50:12] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Two kingdoms. One's filled with Hungarians . . . The other's filled with robots bent on dominating the Balkanks.
L718[15:51:48] <transitbiker> bbl :D
L719[15:51:57] <Althego> probably there is not much difference
L720[15:52:01] <Scolar_Visari> Earlier on, they ended up fighting the Cyber-Lithuanian Empire
L721[15:52:15] <Althego> as it says in the article, this rule creates an overshoot
L722[15:52:34] <Althego> and probably you cant even control how big it will be
L723[15:52:43] * Scolar_Visari has discovered that alt-history is instantly improved with the addition of robots.
L724[15:53:01] <SnoopJeDi> Reference 2 on that wiki article also discusses some drawbacks
L725[15:53:33] <Althego> in reality, it is almost always better to use some other control method than pid
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L728[15:54:57] <Scolar_Visari> Coming soon: The War of Spanish Cyberization. With Carlos 2.0 out of the way, who will take the throne? Will the Habsborgs once again assimilate Iberia, or will the Bourbots finally reign supreme?
L729[15:55:11] <Althego> habsborgs lol
L730[15:55:14] <APlayer> Althego: This is KSP, not reality :P
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L732[15:55:31] <Althego> ksp is sufficiently complex to be trreated as reality
L733[15:55:43] <Althego> with nonlinear systems all over the place
L734[15:55:49] <APlayer> So, what are alternatives to PID, then?
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L737[15:57:16] <Eddi|zuHause> <Althego> that is why the 16.666 hz train grids in some contruies? <-- that frequency was decided on in the 1910s, when each phase change would cause a spark in the early electrical motors, so they used a lower frequency than the standard 50Hz
L738[15:57:28] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: The Habsborgs have had software issues ever since they decided to use the same spaghetti-code programmers over and over again.
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L740[15:58:08] <Scolar_Visari> They just kept adding on to their antiquated OS and Motherboard configurations, eventually unable to use enough RAM to out-think the crafty Bourbots.
L741[15:58:49] <Eddi|zuHause> that frequency was used by the "early adopters" of electrical traction, austria, bavaria, switzerland and prussia
L742[15:58:57] <Althego> i am partial to state space controls
L743[15:59:16] <Eddi|zuHause> when other countries like france entered the game, the technology was further advanced, so they decided on 50Hz power
L744[15:59:26] <SnoopJeDi> APlayer, there are a whole bunch of options! It depends on the problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory
L745[15:59:45] <Eddi|zuHause> and italy had this weird three-phase thing going on
L746[15:59:59] <SnoopJeDi> (namely the "examples of control systems" section at the bottom)
L747[16:00:48] <SnoopJeDi> Certainly not an exhaustive list, though. I have a colleague who trained a neural net to control the water cooling of an electron gun and outperformed a PID by a factor of 20 :)
L748[16:01:06] <Althego> or you can just add a self tuning capability to a pid and it will solve problems... after a while... or not
L749[16:01:30] <Althego> hehe by 20
L750[16:01:33] <Eddi|zuHause> also "fun": sweden uses the "early adopter" frequency, and when denmark built this bridge that connects the railway networks of sweden and germany, they had to electrify that route, and they decided to go with 50Hz. so trains going from sweden to germany have to switch voltage twice
L751[16:02:00] <SnoopJeDi> err, not a neural net, but another entry in the machine learning suite: https://arxiv.org/abs/1511.01883
L752[16:02:07] <SnoopJeDi> Althego, 20X is a *massive* improvement!
L753[16:02:15] <Althego> obviously
L754[16:02:37] <Althego> the only good thing in pid that it looks intuittive
L755[16:02:42] <Scolar_Visari> SnoopJeDi: I thought there was a prohibition against thinking machines! I mean, why else is RTS pathfinding so terrible?
L756[16:02:50] <Althego> but if you want to tune it, it turns out it is hard anyway
L757[16:02:55] <SnoopJeDi> Scolar_Visari, trick question it's not :)
L758[16:03:00] <SnoopJeDi> thank you based SC2 pathing
L759[16:03:09] <Althego> supcom2?
L760[16:03:18] <Althego> that was kind of intelligent
L761[16:03:32] <Eddi|zuHause> with "sc2" my immediate association is always sim city 2000...
L762[16:03:45] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Well, they did dumb down everything else in the game.
L763[16:04:00] <Scolar_Visari> Including the names for the Illuminate units . . .
L764[16:04:07] <SnoopJeDi> Eddi|zuHause, that's always been SC2k for me
L765[16:04:15] <Fluburtur> uh
L766[16:04:27] <Fluburtur> for some reason my midi keyboard doesn't want to work
L767[16:04:37] <Scolar_Visari> Midi keyboards are still a thing?
L768[16:04:37] <Eddi|zuHause> SnoopJeDi: i think it's because the savegames had ".sc2" filenames
L769[16:04:54] <SnoopJeDi> I'm sure somebody out there associates it with Type II superconductors
L770[16:05:10] <Althego> yes i intentianlly avoided supcom2
L771[16:05:13] <Scolar_Visari> Eddi: Your confusion is understandible. Supreme Commander 2 was pretty forgetable relative to its predecessor, per its development as a budget title.
L772[16:05:23] <Althego> midi is stil la thing, so keyboards too
L773[16:05:39] <SnoopJeDi> Althego, oh, no. I meant Starcraft 2
L774[16:05:40] <Althego> yes all these sc abbreviations
L775[16:05:50] <Scolar_Visari> Fluburtur: So can I expect you to compose a sweet soundtrack to an SNES title?
L776[16:05:58] <Fluburtur> I guess
L777[16:06:00] <Fluburtur> ifit works
L778[16:06:24] <Eddi|zuHause> what does midi have to do with snes?
L779[16:06:40] <Althego> what is this programming bunny game in the google logo?
L780[16:06:40] <Scolar_Visari> Eddi: Midi songs remind me a lot of old SNES title music.
L781[16:06:47] <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen street organs that use midi
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L783[16:07:08] <Scolar_Visari> Eddi: I suppose that beats carrying around a person to pump a water organ like they use to?
L784[16:07:53] * Scolar_Visari has always, for some reason, thought of Medieval water organs as having water bursting from their pipes like certain Pokemon attacks.
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L786[16:08:17] <ve2dmn> Scolar_Visari: WATER ORGAN! Use your splash attack!
L787[16:08:36] <Scolar_Visari> Water Organ used splash . . . But it was pretty freaking useless.
L788[16:09:18] * Scolar_Visari uses electrrolysis on enemy WATER ORGAN . . . But they didn't have enough electricity to complete the process.
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L790[16:10:11] <Althego> lol
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L792[16:11:05] <Scolar_Visari> Clearly I should've had an electric-type on standby instead of relying on my power company.
L793[16:12:41] <Althego> the pathfinding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA2epda-RkM
L794[16:12:41] <kmath> YouTube - Supreme Commander 2 - Flowfield
L795[16:12:54] <Althego> in all rts games the units just get confused
L796[16:14:07] <Althego> i think i should be sleeping
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L801[16:30:09] <Fluburtur> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_nN94P0V0Q
L802[16:30:09] <kmath> YouTube - HOMER IS DEAD
L803[16:34:05] <Leveller> So.
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L806[16:39:42] <Mathuin> Does the KSP binary have any arguments that can immediately load a saved game instead of requiring tons o clicks?
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L811[16:50:16] <kuzetsa> Mathuin: not that I've ever noticed for vanilla/stock KSP. Unsure if mods change this.
L812[16:50:42] <kuzetsa> and/or I didn't see it in the vanilla/stock documentation but may have missed it
L813[16:51:05] <kuzetsa> unless it's documented, the feature probably isn't there
L814[16:55:13] <Mathuin> There's probably a hundred hours of my in-game time according to Steam that is simply due to me not remembering to click all the clicks to get out.
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L817[17:30:41] <HotSpicySausage> what has better performance? KSP in linux or windows? Also, do mods even work in linux KSP?
L818[17:30:47] <HotSpicySausage> since there are dlls
L819[17:32:59] <lordcirth> HotSpicySausage, practically the same, and yes, mods work fine with very few exceptions
L820[17:33:40] <lordcirth> The main cause of incompatibilities is people hardcoding file paths or forgetting about case sensitivity.
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L822[17:36:02] <HotSpicySausage> ahh
L823[17:36:56] <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it's ridiculous how many clicks are needed to just quit the game
L824[17:37:24] <lordcirth> Alt-F4 is one click
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L830[17:54:34] <HotSpicySausage> Is KSP realized as a realistic rocket physics simulator where it mimics real life enough that you can understand how rockets IRL work?
L831[17:55:13] <tawny> I think it depends on what you mean by that
L832[17:55:27] <tawny> certainly it's good at helping an ordinary person get the basics of it
L833[17:55:45] <tawny> but e.g. nasa wouldn't use it to train their employees or anything
L834[17:55:50] <HotSpicySausage> I mean if I were to copy a rocket launch of real life into KSP, I can see the minor physics details and be able to create a 'replay video' of that real life launch.
L835[17:56:09] <HotSpicySausage> and see all theoretical data of the launch
L836[17:56:41] <tawny> oh, then no, not without heavy modding
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L838[17:57:02] <HotSpicySausage> so I can't recreate a launch from real life into KSP and learn what's happening?
L839[17:57:32] <tawny> you could make an abstraction of it, certainly
L840[17:57:44] <Eddi|zuHause> KSP is a rather crude model for actual rockets
L841[17:57:45] <HotSpicySausage> where i would be making a video game replay of a real life mission
L842[17:57:50] <HotSpicySausage> you could say
L843[17:58:27] <UmbralRaptor> You'd need to look into Realism Overhaul
L844[17:58:39] <HotSpicySausage> i know it's crude, but i was wondering if it's possible
L845[17:58:40] <tawny> yeah, with realism overhaul you get a lot closer to being able to do that
L846[18:00:26] <HotSpicySausage> it would be interesting if KSP had a replay feature where you could watch your mission as a video and browse it at timepoints of what happened.
L847[18:00:28] <tawny> well, like, you can put nine engines on the bottom of a big tall fuel tank, put some scaled up landing legs on the sides, and then fly it up, save a little fuel, and try to return to the launch pad and land the thing
L848[18:00:51] <tawny> but it wouldn't necessarily tell you the exact inputs or forces or mechanical stresses or anything that the falcon 9 goes through
L849[18:01:14] <HotSpicySausage> it would be close though?
L850[18:01:38] <HotSpicySausage> s/it would/would it
L851[18:02:27] <tawny> again, it depends on what you mean by "close"
L852[18:02:47] <tawny> I've certainly gotten roughly the same experience with some of my rockets
L853[18:03:02] <tawny> and had the challenge of a vertical landing
L854[18:03:25] <tawny> but if you mean "would it follow the same trajectories", well, no
L855[18:03:29] <tawny> for starters ksp doesn't have wind
L856[18:03:36] <tawny> and I don't think RO adds that either
L857[18:04:48] <Fluburtur> Rokker https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372444178510249998/387755997965320195/20171206003212_1.jpg
L858[18:05:04] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372444178510249998/387756006827884544/20171204191222_1.jpg
L859[18:05:31] <Rokker> Fluburtur: he's beautiful
L860[18:05:38] <Fluburtur> we found a cool glitch
L861[18:05:57] <HotSpicySausage> would it be the equivalent of using Rome: Total War as history documentaries of historical battles? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xOepuz2hBo
L862[18:05:58] <kmath> YouTube - Decisive Battles - Cynoscephalae (Rome vs Macedon)
L863[18:08:44] <tawny> yeah, probably
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L866[18:10:26] <HotSpicySausage> lol
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L870[18:17:08] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372444178510249998/387759296131235841/20170607214432_1.jpg
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L872[18:23:38] <Fluburtur> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372444178510249998/387760830667816960/20170611002504_1.jpg
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L882[18:41:07] <HotSpicySausage> "I can picture my own retirement already. If I were a healthy person aged 65 or older today, I would exercise my wits by trying to reach legendary rank in Hearthstone, get an occasional workout in with the HTC Vive..."
L883[18:41:11] <HotSpicySausage> https://theconversation.com/how-playing-video-games-can-change-your-retirement-56769
L884[18:41:13] <HotSpicySausage> lel
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L886[18:53:49] <Mathuin> Huh, new module manager found an error in indicator lights
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L950[21:09:42] <Flub2> https://78.media.tumblr.com/33560f8dd9d9bf172c7fbfdcf2a66ce7/tumblr_inline_p009om52YH1ri4d3y_540.png
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L970[22:58:23] <Mathuin> Hrm now I want to drive something from Minmus to Mun. Wonder how hard that is.
L971[23:00:50] <Mathuin> Huh! Place a node, stretch it until you leave Minmus's SOI, slide it until it crosses the Mun's.
L972[23:01:06] <Mathuin> 84.6 m/s :-)
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