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L1[00:03:04] ⇨
Joins: Glass|phone (~GlassFrag@163.49.206.188)
L2[00:03:41] <Glass|phone> ...my game says I
have NaN items of food left
L3[00:05:55] <petti> they accidentally took
mini black holes for snacks
L4[00:11:06] <Glass|phone> changed name of
function in javascript file, continued coding in visual novel
scenario file, end result was no errors being thrown but function
not appearing to exist
L5[00:11:48] <Glass|phone> the novel engine
just quietly terminated some embedded code block at the missing
function
L6[00:12:18] <Glass|phone> took me some
minutes to find that the function is missing, and considerably more
to find out why
L7[00:12:54] <Glass|phone> I had left the js
file open in background, unsaved, so the function still had it's
old name
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L9[00:14:24] <Glass|phone> I'm using some
random pc with no real text editor installed so I just used
notepad, which has no indication of unsaved files
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L13[00:26:34] <Althego> solution is to take
your own stuff with you on usb
L14[00:26:52] <taniwha> if necessary, your
own OS
L15[00:26:57] <Althego> exactly
L16[00:27:05] <Althego> boot from usb
L17[00:27:21] <taniwha> eg, Knoppix was
designed for just that
L18[00:27:31] <Althego> lot of live
distros
L19[00:27:32] <taniwha> (and I've heard of
windows variants)
L20[00:27:48] <Althego> but it was js, so
any os is fine
L21[00:28:00] <taniwha> and with modern
thumb-drives, you could have a full distro
L22[00:40:40] <Glass|phone> taniwha: I
don't expect school pcs to allow booting from external
droves?
L23[00:41:15] <taniwha> they're school PCs.
do you really expect them to have been set up that way? (ie, school
PCs are notoriously insecure)
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L25[00:41:44] <Althego> also you could take
a portable editor instead
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L27[00:46:48] <Glass|phone> taniwha: as far
as I know all school pc's I've seen have actually had it
disabled
L28[00:47:18] <taniwha> did you try getting
into the bios to enable it?
L29[00:47:49] <Glass|phone> Althego: well
I'm dumb, this thing is connected to the school network so I can
just pull an editor from the fileserver
L30[00:47:59] <taniwha> or there's
that
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L33[00:59:47] <Althego> since my computer
speaker is not functioning properly the last few days i have been
using the headset. and that made me wonder, how do the amplifiers
work on batteries? cant be the usual analog amplifier because those
waste energy. but i thought switching audio amplifiers are
rare
L34[01:01:54] <Althego> maybe they are not
so rare
L35[01:02:09] <Althego> just looked down
upon by the audio purists
L36[01:03:48] <taniwha> everything is
looked down upon by the audio purists :P
L37[01:03:53] <Althego> hehehe
L38[01:05:00] <Althego> yes mobile phones
apparently use class
L39[01:05:01] <Althego> d
L40[01:05:12] <Althego> so the wireless
headset probably too
L41[01:05:57] <Althego> and as expected i
wouldnt know, i dont have that kind of hearing
L42[01:06:32] <taniwha> if the engineers
did their job, neither do the audio purists
L43[01:06:33] <Althego> strange, how does
the class d article on wiki lead to sliding mode control
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L67[03:23:31] <Blaank> occilations of
position coupled with mass fluctuations.
L68[03:25:11] <Blaank> Did the Chinese EM
drive ever go anywhere? They put it into orbit. They should be able
to detect changes since it's been a few months since it
launched.
L69[03:25:30] <tawny-> it's unlikely to
reveal anything useful tbh
L70[03:25:39] <Blaank> Well did it produce
thrust at all?
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L72[03:27:24] <tawny-> I'm not sure
L73[03:27:47] <tawny-> I don't even see any
claims they've made about an orbital test, or even anything
confirming it's in space yet
L74[03:28:01] ⇨
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L75[03:28:58] <tawny-> anyway there's too
many forces that could be acting in space, with too little expected
force
L76[03:29:02] ***
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L77[03:32:39] <tawny> I'm finding no
verifiable or reliable claims that the emdrive has actually been
deployed into orbit yet
L78[03:33:02] <tawny> only anonymous tips
and speculation and guesses that have been blown out of proportion
and run with wildly by enthusiastic publications
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L83[03:40:49] <tawny> the other crucial
thing about rf resonant cavity thrusters is that we have no idea
how they even work
L84[03:41:23] <tawny> which means even if
they do produce thrust somehow, even if we can confirm that putting
one on a satellite can move that satellite, we won't be able to
reliably build anything to take advantage of it
L85[03:42:22] ⇨
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L86[03:44:47] <Gasher[work]>
"how"? "if"
L87[03:44:57] <tawny> I mean yeah there's
that too
L88[03:45:31] ⇨
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L89[03:45:38] <taniwha> hard to know how
something works when it is unknown if it works :)
L90[03:45:49] <tawny> but what I'm trying
to say is that an orbital test isn't useful because it can *only*
prove the "if" one way or another
L91[03:46:11] <tawny> and if it DOES work
then that's not enough and we still need to know the
"how" part
L92[03:48:19] <tawny> I'm also skeptical of
this woodward effect/mach effect thing
L93[03:51:20] <tawny> mach's principle is
not a very solid thing to base a theory off of, and I've never even
seen it used to describe anything other than a rotating reference
frame - and even then, it's not necessarily true
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L97[04:20:45] <Althego> i didnt know about
this
L98[04:25:49] <Gasher[work]> " may
also use Proton-M and Angara-A5M heavy launchers to fly payloads or
crew".... CREW?!
L99[04:27:20] <Blaank> Are those the ones
that blow up a lot?
L100[04:27:49] <Blaank> the now cancelled
Asteroid Redirect Mission
L101[04:27:51] <Blaank> rip
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L104[04:30:29] <Gasher[work]> yeah proton
does not seem to have a good safety record
L105[04:31:07] <Blaank> What vehicle were
they planning on putting on top of it? Escape systems could negate
the safety disadvantage of a rocket that blows up a lot.
L106[04:31:22] <Blaank> Still not as safe
as using one that doesn't blow up.
L107[04:32:45] <Althego> hehe
L108[04:33:08] <Althego> let's put it this
way, would you like to sit on top of a pile of explosives?
L109[04:33:25] <Althego> the rocket is
that, just designed to explode downwards
L110[04:33:42] <Althego> those that
explode in all directions, i dont want to go near
L111[04:33:49] <Blaank> There is a lot of
neat stuff you can do. You can armor the heat shield without much
more mass to withstand explosions. You can combine the launch
escape system into a landing engine to save mass on parachutes. You
can put a service module between the capsule and the propellant to
help absorb explosions.
L112[04:34:11] <Althego> you can, but even
eon gave up the landing idea
L113[04:34:20] <Althego> it is hard to
pass regulatory safety checks
L114[04:34:20] <Blaank> Awww, why?
L115[04:34:31] <Blaank> Oh, that's
why.
L116[04:34:36] <Blaank> I thought there
was some problem with it.
L117[04:34:43] <Althego> so the parachute
stays on the dragon 2 for usage as not just a safety device
L118[04:35:00] <Althego> they could do it,
but it is just too much money
L119[04:35:17] <Blaank> Still you should
be able to briefly kick them on to soften a landing anyway? And it
needs a launch escape system. Those save lives.
L120[04:35:39] <Blaank> Oh, LES is going
to be way higher than 1 TRW. Not conductive to landings.
L121[04:35:44] <Gasher[work]> Soyuz
briefly kicks before landing
L122[04:35:52] <Althego> the engiens can
work on dragon 2 it as launch escape system, which is one of their
intended purpose
L123[04:36:08] <Althego> "the soft
landing" on soyuz
L124[04:36:21] <Althego> without those you
go up to something like 40g
L125[04:36:32] <Blaank> LES has way
different requirements than orbital engines or landing engines. But
you can combine them for not that much mass launch. vs having 3
seperate systems.
L126[04:36:50] <Althego> with them the
seats still crumple to decrease g forces
L127[04:37:24] <Blaank> parapharasing I
heard it described as a mild car crash.
L128[04:37:34] <Althego> especially after
months in zero g
L129[04:38:01] <Blaank> Human body can
withstand some pretty crazy forces in short durations.
L131[04:39:02] <Althego> that gif showes
it
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L133[04:41:20] <Blaank> So basically a
bunch of SRBs kick hell out the bottom right before it smashes into
the ground.
L134[04:42:46] <Gasher[work]> yes
L135[04:42:49] <Blaank> Soyuz is a tough
boy.
L136[04:42:56] <Blaank> Gets 3 people up
and down.
L137[04:43:11] <Blaank> Surprisingly safe
given that it's Soviet tech.
L138[04:44:23] <kuzetsa> [... "drogue
parachute flings out to send the capsule bobbing and tumbling like
a poorly-controlled yo-yo" ...] wow that's scary
L139[04:45:28] <legion> if it is stupid
but it works, it isn't stupid
L140[04:52:47] <bees> comfort of the
comrades is a very capitalistic design requirement, true communist
would bear for the Motherland
L141[04:53:42] <bees> as long as comrade
is delivered in one piece, capsule works, da
L142[04:55:08] <Althego> this is because
it lands on land (still dont understand how english speaking people
think water landing is not an oxymoron)
L143[04:55:20] <Althego> which is still
safer than in the ocean
L144[04:55:32] <Althego> at least you dont
drown there
L145[04:56:44] <Althego> ok, you can take
a gun with you on the soyuz, primarily because of wolves and stuff,
but lately everybody choose not to
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L147[05:03:01] <Gasher[work]> Althego,
LOL
L148[05:03:16] <Gasher[work]> there was
one accident when it landed on a frozen LAKE
L149[05:03:30] <Althego> yes they aƩmost
died
L150[05:04:31] <Althego> it was running on
the descent reserve power for a day or so
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L171[05:59:20] <taniwha> Althego: pods
don't land on water, they splash down on water
L172[06:00:05] <taniwha> English speakers
who say otherwise are... mistaken
L173[06:04:10] <TheKosmonaut> taniwha:
land on water, splash on land
L174[06:04:34] <taniwha> I think you mean
splat on both
L175[06:12:13] <Althego> on all airplanes
the safety paper contains the water landing
L176[06:12:21] <Althego> or you may even
be instructed about it
L177[06:12:59] <taniwha> LCD
L178[06:13:25] <Fluburtur> I wonder how
far a helicopter can glide from 8km up
L179[06:15:59] <sandbox> and if you land
on ice without breaking it?
L180[06:16:18] <taniwha> skating :)
L181[06:22:22] <Althego> probably doesnt
glide very well
L182[06:22:54] <Fluburtur> can probably go
like 20km
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L185[06:33:05] <Fluburtur> haha dihydrogen
monoxide
L186[06:33:13] <Fluburtur> man, peoples
still don't know about that
L187[06:38:06] <sandbox> dangerous
stuff
L188[06:46:32] <Rolf> very. its found in
all cancers so far
L189[06:47:18] <TheKosmonaut> Itās the
number 1 cause of death in a lot of undeveloped countries.
L190[06:47:48] <TheKosmonaut> In fact,
Dihydrogen Monoxide will kill any human if they breathe in too much
of it
L191[06:51:07] <Black_Eagle> yeah don't
get me started on improper treatment of dihydrogen monoxide. people
get ill in all sorts of ways if that happens
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L193[06:56:51] <Rolf> we got dependant on
that so early, if we don't drink that chemical we die in 2 to 4
days
L194[06:57:26] <Rolf> people boil it and
purify it for better effect
L195[06:58:48] <Althego> if we can last
enough to use robotic bodies or create true ai, that would be a
thing of the past
L196[06:59:02] <Rolf> indeed
L197[06:59:56] <Althego> dystopic future,
but we could just say, an other form of life. life has been
bootsrapping itself for billions of years, humans may be just one
step in that process
L198[07:01:18] <Black_Eagle> let's say
robotic bodies will become a thing
L199[07:01:28] <Black_Eagle> how many
individuals will there be in such a future?
L200[07:01:59] <Rolf> dunno
L201[07:02:01] <Althego> what would count
as an individual
L202[07:02:06] <Black_Eagle> and assuming
we need to start our life as a biological body: what's the ratio of
biological people to robotic people?
L203[07:02:21] <Rolf> if I was brain
scanned and I run 10 copies of me
L204[07:02:32] <Rolf> would I count as 1
or 11 indivuals?
L205[07:02:57] <Black_Eagle> you tell me,
how would you define that?
L206[07:03:23] <Rolf> good question
L207[07:03:39] <Rolf> since if I stop
running one of em, would it count as murder?
L208[07:03:51] <Rolf> or sucide? or
nothing at all?
L209[07:04:26] <Black_Eagle> i don't mean
to be a dick by shifting the burden but that was my entire point:
how can we even imagine a world with immortal bodies that has
emerged from a world of inequality
L210[07:04:51] <Althego> maybe we cant,
just have to wait and see
L211[07:05:10] <Black_Eagle> i guess you
as a collective would have the ownership and legal systems wouldn't
care as long as the majority of you is ok with that ...killing
action
L212[07:05:28] <Black_Eagle> *ownership to
you as a collective
L213[07:05:28] <Althego> lately there have
been some ai news, like the general purpose ai that won in go, and
came up with new strategies
L214[07:06:36] <Black_Eagle> similarly
most legislations don't consider suicide a crime. you've just voted
against yourself and the majority of you (=1) decided that it's an
action to take. now, obviously we could argue something about
depression and the insanity of the decision
L215[07:06:46] <Black_Eagle> but that
still applies to all suicides this day, too
L216[07:08:52] <Black_Eagle>
"strategy" in general is a very human concept. as long as
the problem cannot be brute forced there can be general strategies.
BUT why should any problem be assumed to unsolvable by brute
forcing
L217[07:15:58] <Rolf> immortal? hah!
L218[07:16:03] <Rolf> not even with
robotic bodies
L219[07:23:14] <Black_Eagle> well, from
old age anyway. robotic bodies can be repaired
L220[07:23:44] <Rolf> yeah though death
can still happen
L221[07:24:06] <Rolf> "temperory
death" where memories between backup and "now" is
lost by nasty death
L222[07:24:28] <Rolf> suppose I didnt
backup for a month, takes a skydiving lesson and crute dont
open
L223[07:24:33] <Rolf> same for
backup
L224[07:24:54] <Rolf> they cannot recover
my memories so I come to life minus one month of memories
L225[07:25:16] <Rolf> it'd be like time
traveling forward a month, I'd have to figure what I did and what
my plans was, so on
L226[07:25:22] <Iskierka> and then your
cloud storage service had just emailed you to say that your service
is cancelled until you can resolve a billing issue and never get
the note that no version of you exists presently
L227[07:25:49] <Iskierka> permanent death
would be trivial. Look how often tech companies **** up today. You
want that controlling your existence?
L228[07:25:49] <Althego> i doubt physical
injuries would be enough to erase memories, maybe an explosion that
burns the storage, or emp
L229[07:26:02] <Althego> hehe, get a
viures and millions are dead
L230[07:26:04] <Rolf> or diving to nice
rocks
L231[07:27:02] <Rolf> and theres this new
"temperory murder"
L232[07:27:23] <Iskierka> also most
legislations DO consider suicide a crime, that statement is
nonsense. It's a crime with no punishment, however, as the crime
part is to allow LEOs to take their normal probable-cause entry
justifications to prevent it
L233[07:27:28] <Rolf> where person
destroys other person body with memories, and that person gets
restored
L234[07:27:46] <Althego> it is the idea
behind the altered carbon series
L235[07:27:58] <Althego> this almost
impossible to kill people with backups
L236[07:28:07] <Rolf> I think I haven't
read altered carbon
L237[07:28:17] <Althego> i read the first
novel but it generally didnt impress me
L238[07:29:17] <bees> from same
discuission on another channel some time ago
L239[07:29:31] <bees> murder would be
redefined as an irreversible loss of sentient information
L240[07:29:49] <bees> so your 2-day copy
dead would be considered as loss of 2 days of information if you
didnt synch it
L241[07:30:08] <bees> probably would get
you a fine
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L243[07:30:50] <bees> +copy price
ofc
L244[07:31:55] <bees> so killing someone
would not be a big deal, but if you attack some planetary backup
sites, you would be exterminated on sight
L245[07:32:06] <bees> strange world it
would be
L246[07:32:48] <Rolf> indeed
L247[07:33:20] <Black_Eagle> Iskierka:
Legislation Main article: Suicide legislation "In most Western
countries, suicide is no longer a crime."
L248[07:33:29] <Black_Eagle> you are plain
wrong, sorry
L249[07:41:44] <Fluburtur> how are you
supposed to punish suicide anyways
L250[07:41:54] <Fluburtur> "you tried
to suicide, the punishment will be death"
L251[07:43:54] <Rolf> lol
L252[07:44:06] <Rolf> "YES! I can
finally die!"
L253[07:46:57] ⇦
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L255[07:49:38] <Fluburtur> I should try to
do some multiplayer ksp with someone again
L256[07:49:42] <Fluburtur> last time was
pretty fun
L257[07:53:15] <GlassYuri> Fluburtur,
there is an urban legend about someone in the US being executed for
murder after a suicide attempt
L258[07:53:44] <Fluburtur> you know that
wouldn't surprise me
L259[07:54:04] <daey_> Fluburtur: the
translated word for 1:1 suicide is "self murder" here.
murder already implying a criminal action :P
L260[07:54:19] <Althego> if there are
underage people going to jail for cp because they posted nude
pictures of themselvs...
L261[07:54:40] <Althego> i can imagine
anything about the us
L262[07:54:53] <GlassYuri> daey_,
german?
L263[07:54:59] <daey_> GlassYuri:
yes
L264[07:55:32] <GlassYuri> daey_, remember
that there's actually three words, Selbstmord, Suizid,
Freitod
L265[07:56:04] <daey_> GlassYuri: yeah and
how often do you hear the other two?
L266[07:56:30] <GlassYuri> Suizid is the
most common one IMHO
L267[07:56:50] <daey_> they are more like
creations for the sake of being "politically
correct".
L268[07:57:06] <daey_> yeah that one
maybe. but Freitod?
L269[07:57:26] <RandomJeb> we use
"self murder" in norwegian too
L270[07:57:28] <RandomJeb> selvmord
L271[07:57:43] <GlassYuri> well Freitod is
glorifying
L272[08:00:05] <daey_> Althego: i remember
reading about a case on 4chan. a girl actively posted nudes of her
over a longer period
L273[08:00:30] <daey_> not sure how that
ended though
L274[08:09:40] <TheKosmonaut> Hey uh
L275[08:09:45] <TheKosmonaut> Not the
thing to talk about here
L276[08:10:22] <TheKosmonaut> Iām storming
the rebel base on Hoth right now. But donāt make me turn this ATAT
around.
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L287[09:13:53] <xShadowx> happy leftovers
day!
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L289[09:14:30] <ve2dmn> RandomJeb: Suicide
from the the latin 'Self-kill'... (Sui+ cida)
L290[09:15:16] <ve2dmn> xShadowx: you want
to know what the local media use as an 'unofficial' translation for
Black friday?
L291[09:16:08] *
xShadowx puts a black cat in front of ve2dmn
L292[09:16:11] <Althego> that is another
unpleasant american custom that infected us
L293[09:16:20] <ve2dmn> (Probably the same
as Fluburtur's media, but I didn't check)
L294[09:16:31] <Althego> ok, it started
only 2 years ago or so, we put up quite a fight
L295[09:16:32] <Fluburtur> what?
L296[09:17:00] <ve2dmn> Fluburtur: I'll
send you a PM. I want them to try and guess first
L297[09:17:24] <Althego> secret french
communication lines :)
L298[09:19:54] <ve2dmn> I mean, it's not
hard to find. You just go to Bestbuy.ca and click on
'francais'
L299[09:28:01] <Deddly> Vendredi
noir?
L300[09:28:07] <ve2dmn> close
L301[09:29:02] <ve2dmn> That's used to
describe the US 'holiday' but it's not used in the sales ads
because it would have a negative meaning
L302[09:29:52] <Deddly> That is pretty
consistent with how the commercial system in the US attempted to
change the meaning of "Black Friday"
L303[09:30:28] <ve2dmn> They call it
'Vendredi fou', 'Crazy friday'
L304[09:31:09] <Deddly> I thought
"fou" was more like "idiot" than
"crazy"
L305[09:32:05] <Deddly> OK guess what it
is in Swedish
L307[09:33:28] <ve2dmn> Deddly: in terms
of rebates, in terms of 'the start of the holiday season' or in
terms or 'The thing the US does that we try to translate but we
don't have an equivalent' ?
L308[09:33:47] <Deddly> in terms or 'The
thing the US does that we try to translate but we don't have an
equivalent'
L309[09:34:21] <ve2dmn> avdrag fredag
?
L310[09:34:34] <ve2dmn> (I don't know, I
just glue words together)
L311[09:35:11] <Deddly> Nice suggestion
but nope
L312[09:35:21] <Deddly> Swedish for Black
Friday is: Black Friday
L313[09:35:27] <ve2dmn> Nice
L314[09:35:35] <Deddly> Imaginitive
lot
L315[09:36:20] <ve2dmn> At least it's not
'preto sexta-feira'
L316[09:37:32] <Althego> we just call it
black friday. no native name for it yet
L317[09:38:00] <ve2dmn> I also like the
fact that I can buy tickets to a Zelda concert 20% off with the
keyword 'givingthanks'....
L318[09:38:20] <ve2dmn> because in my
context, it makes very little sense
L319[09:39:10] <ve2dmn> note that the
concert itself is awesome
L320[09:39:28] <ve2dmn> I went twice
L321[09:40:03] <ve2dmn> And it's the...
5th? 6th? time they come around?
L322[09:40:46] <ve2dmn> thinkgeek has the
best name: "It's #000000 friday!"
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L325[09:44:48] <Deddly> i love
auroras
L326[09:45:29]
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L327[09:47:42] <Fluburtur> im playing ksp
with bda and doing AI battle
L328[09:48:05] <Fluburtur> 4v4 planes, but
I included the k29 and one almost went into a hover to shoot
another plane
L329[09:49:14] <Fluburtur> the k29 is a
very dangerous dogfighter
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L333[10:07:53] <schnobs> anyone aware of
LARGE inflatable crew modules? Like 10+ persons?
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L366[12:52:15] <ve2dmn> Opinions on
Factorio and Rimworld?
L367[13:01:26] <Zarthus> both are
excellent games
L368[13:04:22] <ve2dmn> because I've been
waiting for them to go on sale, and I feel like I'm gonna wait
forever
L369[13:04:42] <Althego> is factorio out
of beta yet?
L370[13:04:56] <ve2dmn> Define
'beta'
L371[13:05:35] <Althego> 0.15.37 lol
L372[13:06:00] <kubi> beta:=ksp
L373[13:06:19] <ve2dmn> ;define beta
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L376[13:07:39] <Althego> i felt ksp was
really good already at 0.24 when i started to play
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L378[13:09:54] <bees> factorio is
somewhere around 1.0.4 ksp in terms of completeness imho
L379[13:10:13] <bees> perfectly playable,
but still rough at some places
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L383[13:17:57] <ve2dmn> bees: so, is it
worth the full price?
L384[13:18:05] <schnobs> Deddly: yo there,
you awake?
L385[13:18:14] <Judge_Dedd> kinda :)
L386[13:18:20] <schnobs> Just wanted to
say thanks for the rescaling idea.
L387[13:18:42] <Judge_Dedd> Oh, that's
good of you to come back and say that :9
L388[13:18:45] <Judge_Dedd> :)
L391[13:18:52] <kmath> YouTube - 'Oumuamua
- The Interstellar Interloper - Update
L392[13:19:27] <Judge_Dedd> Oh yes, that
does look good, schnobs
L393[13:19:29] <schnobs> Judge_Dedd: Still
working on the text, page is WIP. but yeah, it works and looks
better than before.
L394[13:19:54] <Judge_Dedd> Great
job!
L395[13:19:59] <Judge_Dedd> Now I have to
go, unfortunately
L396[13:20:12] <ve2dmn> "My planet
needs me"
L397[13:25:50] ⇦
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L399[13:27:39] <tswett> Ahoy.
L400[13:28:22] <Althego> hi
L401[13:28:23] <tswett> I've wondered for
a little while, does Kerbal Space Program (on 1x physics warp) do a
constant amount of game time per physics frame?
L402[13:28:23] <Mod9000> Hello,
Althego
L403[13:28:29] <Althego> lol the bot
L404[13:28:34] <Althego> know me, i have
been here all along
L405[13:28:46] <tswett> And how much time
is that? 1/20 of a second or something?
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L407[13:29:29] <tswett> I would assume
that the game does *not* adjust that length based on CPU load or
whatever.
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L411[13:35:37] <GuestBanana> i'm not going
to talk about that BTS Mic Drop Remix video... I hope...
L412[13:36:09] <schnobs> tswett: by
default it's 20 physics calculations per second. IIRC you can
adjust the interval somewhere.
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L415[13:37:59] <tswett> Of course, this
means that if you want to have something rotating at speeds
approaching 20 revolutions per second, you're probably going to
have a bad time...
L416[13:38:01] <tswett> Right?
L417[13:38:34] <schnobs> Not sure.
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L419[13:39:31] <tswett> I once tried to
find information about how physics works in Unity. I was able to
find a lot of information about how to use Unity's physics API, but
not much about how it actually worksm
L420[13:40:37] <schnobs> I know that you
have trouble making a circular orbit in realism overhaul,
accelerating on a near-empty stage at 50m/sĀ². Give or take 50ms at
engine shutdown in that case equates some 15km of orbital
altitude.
L421[13:41:49] <schnobs> (no throttle, no
restart, have to cut the engines at just the right point)
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L423[13:47:39] <tswett> Oh **** yes, kOS
has GUI functionality now.
L424[13:52:58] <ve2dmn> tswett: kOS runs
at 1 frame per frame in KSP. But kRPC runs around it
L425[13:53:30] <ve2dmn> I prefer kOS, but
the performance is limited by the frames in the game
L426[13:54:02] <tswett> I definitely like
the API that kOS provides, but the language is a little tricky to
deal with.
L427[13:54:30] <ve2dmn> Do you know what
kRPC is?
L428[13:55:03] <tswett> Sort of. I know
that it allows you to control craft or whatever using a variety of
other languages, including Lua and C#, I think.
L429[13:55:49] <tswett> I don't know if
kRPC provides a big custom API like kOS does, or if it just exposes
the game's own API, or what.
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L431[13:58:45] <ve2dmn> what are you
trying to do?
L432[14:00:10] <tswett> I'm not trying to
do anything right now. What I'd like to be able to do is exactly
what kOS lets me do, except that I can write programs in Lua
instead of kOS-ese.
L433[14:00:38] <ve2dmn> kRPC is your only
choice I'm afraid
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L435[14:01:17] <tswett> Well, I know of
one or two other options...
L436[14:01:28] <tswett> Extend kOS so that
it also supports Lua.
L437[14:01:40] <tswett> Or, write a
compiler from Lua into kOS. :D
L438[14:01:54] <ve2dmn> you could simply
write your own mod in that case
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L440[14:02:22] <ve2dmn> like I (somewhat)
failed to do
L441[14:05:47] <Althego> the asteroid
thing
L442[14:05:53] <ve2dmn> yeah
L443[14:06:22] <ve2dmn> I never managed to
calculate the trajectory to make an asteroid 'hit KSC in X
month'
L444[14:06:30] <Althego> heh
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L446[14:06:38] <Althego> that is
hard
L447[14:06:47] <Althego> in fact i feel
that part is missing from the game
L448[14:07:24] <Althego> you cant
calculate a direct trajectory to say duna, let alone laythe that
will hit it in a specific way and be capturered and landing on
spot
L449[14:07:30] <Althego> becuse the planet
rotates
L450[14:07:37] <ve2dmn> Looking at the
API, there is a way to give a vector and a timestamp and the game
with make the trajectory... but I never managed to make it
worked
L451[14:08:03] <Althego> wasnt the
trajectory computation updated since then?
L452[14:08:10] <ve2dmn> probably
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L458[14:20:32] <tswett> Now, really, the
kOS language is pretty decent. It even beats Java in supporting
closures...
L459[14:20:51] <tswett> I just wish you
could define custom structures (classes).
L460[14:21:09] <Althego> we were fine
without classes for decades
L461[14:23:46] <tswett> Of course. I can
do without them too. But it would be convenient to have them.
L462[14:23:53] <schnobs> uphill! through
the snow!
L463[14:25:26] <tswett> If I have some
sort of custom controller object called "pitch", I'd
rather write "set pitch:setpoint to 5" than
"controller_set_setpoint(pitch, 5)".
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L466[14:28:38] <Supernovy> Evening,
Gentlemen.
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L472[14:44:20] <Mat2ch> evening
L473[14:44:30] <Mat2ch> where's the person
who wanted to build a cheap cubesat?
L474[14:44:35] <Mat2ch> I have some input
;)
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L478[14:59:30] <ve2dmn> the only thing I
hate about the kOS language is the line terminator
L479[14:59:46] <ve2dmn> using '.' is not a
good idea IMHO
L480[15:07:42] <tswett> Lua is weird in
that it doesn't use a line terminator AND whitespace is
insignificant.
L481[15:08:38] <tswett> So you can just
string function calls and assignments and stuff together: "do
f(x) g = h y = g(x) f(x) end"
L482[15:10:17] <oren> ve2dmn: why is . a
bad idea?
L483[15:10:37] <oren> : is the object
member operator
L484[15:11:24] <oren> so . is fine
L485[15:11:29] <ve2dmn> I find that it is
not clear enough. I often forget it
L486[15:12:05] <oren> you could use a font
with a big .
L487[15:13:06] <ve2dmn> if you compare
with other languages, it's (almost) always either newline
terminated or semi-colon terminated...
L488[15:13:22] <ve2dmn> ...why go the way
of COBOL then?
L489[15:13:59] <oren> because it's an
old-style language
L490[15:14:01] <ve2dmn> (or Prolog)
L491[15:14:27] <ve2dmn> It's the main
issue I have with it, mostly because COBOL gave me nightmares
L493[15:15:29] <oren> Erlang: Colon
separated, period terminated
L494[15:15:31] <oren> lol
L495[15:15:41] <ve2dmn> I have seen the
Mega-old COBOL-project-that-doesn't-die
L496[15:16:00] <tswett> I write my kOS
keywords in lowercase because uppercase keywords bring back bad
memories.
L497[15:16:13] <ve2dmn> It made me lose
all hope in humanity
L498[15:16:35] <tswett> Bad memories of
ongoing events. :D
L499[15:16:59] <ve2dmn> tswett: It's
memories for me: I don't work there anymore
L500[15:17:05] <tswett> "Oh yeah, I
remember having to deal with this kind of crap. That was...
Thursday."
L501[15:17:40] <oren> anyway, you could
write a preprocessor
L502[15:17:56] <ve2dmn> The system had to
simulate an operator putting the code as punch cards in nightly
batches... it was that old.
L503[15:18:22] <ve2dmn> still ran as of...
Thurdays
L504[15:19:07] <ve2dmn> over 2500 files of
COBOL, with the biggest ones being over 1MB of pure ASCII
L505[15:19:37] <ve2dmn> with name that
were short (because the punch cards could only have a
3letter-4number name)
L506[15:20:41] <ve2dmn> The whole thing
held together with 3000+ scripts in various shell languages...
Perl, bash, csh, ksh, zsh, depending on the sysadmin
L507[15:21:16] <oren> lol at least none of
those are in-house languages
L508[15:21:47] <ve2dmn> And it ran on a
'cluster' of 10 servers that had to 'simulate' being 1 server, so
the NFS mounts were full-mesh in all directions
L509[15:22:26] <ve2dmn> With a few binairy
apps were the vendors were no more and the licence was tied to the
CPUID
L510[15:22:42] <ve2dmn> it could not be
moved to a newer computer
L511[15:22:49] <ve2dmn> fun times
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L515[15:24:34] <oren> anyway, you could
make a preprocessor that processes kerboscript
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L518[15:25:55] <ve2dmn> oren: nah... I
rather just complain
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L523[15:30:09] <ve2dmn> oren: it's a bad
choice, but it's not a terrible blocking decision. The language is
still functionnal.
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L532[15:43:02] *
tswett tries to work out an equation for a gravity turn using the
Euler-Lagrange equation.
L533[15:56:43] <ve2dmn> tswett: I haven't
heard about that in a long time
L534[16:01:56] <tswett> Uh, someone remind
me how to solve vector differential equations.
L535[16:18:24] <tswett> Yeah, I have no
idea what I'm doing.
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L545[16:28:19] <tswett> Let's see. I want
to think of some independent variable x, and a way of
characterizing the turn as a function y(x), such that there's a
function L such that the efficiency of the turn can be calculated
by integrating L(x, y(x), y'(x)) over some constant interval.
L546[16:28:46] <tswett> Yeah, it's
trivial. My 4-year-old nephew could do that.
L547[16:29:37] <sandbox> I doubt mine
could
L548[16:30:11] <tswett> Yeah, on second
thought, this sounds like a difficult problem.
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L552[16:32:16] <tswett> Hmmm. I think the
problem will be easier if I change it a bit.
L553[16:33:03] <tswett> The one I've been
trying to answer: given a target height and velocity, what's the
least amount of time I can achieve that in?
L554[16:33:48] <tswett> The alternative,
easier-sounding one: given a target velocity and time, what's the
greatest height I can reach in that time, ending at that
velocity?
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L561[16:37:46] <schnobs> tswett: my last
launch script did a projection of "where will I end up if I
keep going straight prograde?" If the result was
underwhelming, recast for prograde +1 degree, and so on.
L562[16:38:25] <schnobs> Results were
good, but the steering looked erratic for a bit before it settled
down.
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L608[18:22:09] <Rolf> poor non-magical
kitten
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L615[18:57:30] <transitbiker> =.=
L616[19:02:55]
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L617[19:03:02] <Guest16106> Anyone
awake?
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L620[19:06:29] <UmbralRaptor> No
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L622[19:07:04] <UmbralRaptor> We're still
all in ? and ? induced comas.
L623[19:10:09] <Warrigal_> I can't make
out that second emoji in this font. It looks like a stack of cash
stuck between a bow and its string.
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L625[19:11:23] <tawny> hahaha
L626[19:11:34] <tawny> I thought it looked
kinda like a brick with tiny wings or penguin flippers
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L628[19:14:12] <Warrigal_> All right, I
should find a flag I like.
L629[19:15:11] <Warrigal_> I've been using
the Stripes flag for every single one of my career games because I
don't like any of the other ones.
L630[19:20:10] <xShadowx> lots of flag
packs
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L633[19:23:57] <UmbralRaptor> It's a
packet of paper money flying away (with wings)
L634[19:24:32] <SnoopJeDi> it's capitalism
day \o/
L635[19:24:35] <UmbralRaptor> Also , why
did the guest leave even though we responded? o_O
L636[19:25:20]
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L637[19:25:23] <SnoopJeDi> Must be looking
for awake people
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L641[19:36:29]
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L642[19:41:14] <Warrigal_> Hey, I found a
flag I like.
L643[19:42:58] <tawny> oh? which
one?
L645[19:44:25] *
schnobs can't see a white circle without wondering what ought to be
there.
L646[19:46:07] <tawny> that's kinda nice
looking
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L658[20:36:28] <Truga> hello
L659[20:36:31] <Mod9000> Hello,
Truga
L660[20:36:39] <Truga> is there a mod that
allows building longer rockets? :v
L661[20:36:53] <ve2dmn> longer?
L662[20:36:57] <Truga> vab is too short
:(
L663[20:37:05] <Alanonzander> hanger hider
of some sort?
L665[20:38:05] <Truga> nice
L666[20:38:14] <ve2dmn> Truga: I don't
know, but I do know that you can ALT-grab the rocket and put it
higher
L667[20:38:19] <ve2dmn> even through the
roof
L668[20:38:25] <Truga> yeah that's what I
did, but it got stuck on the roof
L669[20:38:35] <ve2dmn> ok
L670[20:38:50] <Truga> there appears to be
a max of some sort
L671[20:39:26] <Truga> found
hangarextender in ckan
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L674[20:43:36] <kmath> YouTube - Dachs
plane
L675[20:43:37] <Truga> lol
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L677[20:46:22] <Truga> hm
L678[20:46:30] <Truga> still gets stuck in
the ceiling :(
L679[20:46:54] <ve2dmn> re-root?
L680[20:47:12] <Truga> oh beh, there's a
button on the toolbar I missed
L681[20:47:13] <Warrigal_> Is Eve the
hardest planet to land on and come back from?
L682[20:47:14] <Truga> works now
L683[20:47:20] <Warrigal_> Not counting
Jool, which doesn't have a solid surface.
L684[20:47:37] <ve2dmn> Warrigal_:
landing, no. Taking off, yes
L685[20:50:34] <Truga> ok I don't think a
longer rocket is the solution to this problem
L686[20:50:53] <ve2dmn> moar
boosters?
L687[20:51:34] <Truga> yeah I'm probably
gonna have to do that
L688[20:51:39] <Truga> it'll make it more
expensive tho
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L692[21:15:06] <Warrigal_> So looks like
going to Eve and coming back takes about 12,000 delta-v? That's not
too bad.
L693[21:15:23] <Rolf> Truga: plane
probably? (never did land and leave eve legally)
L694[21:24:12] <ve2dmn> Warrigal_: IF you
can aerobrake
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L720[23:37:27] <Cowrider350> Hullo
L721[23:37:47] <tawny> o/
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