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L1[00:03:22] <tawny> oo, nice, how'd you
manage that
L2[00:03:38] <tawny> I was only able to get
three of my relay probes in a single fairing
L3[00:04:59] <Mathuin> I commit acts of
clipping with the antennas, but everything else fits.
L5[00:06:14] <Mathuin> There's no clipping
with two.
L7[00:06:57] <Mathuin> If I use one step
smaller antennas, there's no clipping at all
L8[00:06:59] <tawny> and when you deploy the
relay sats do the antennas get stuck on each other
L9[00:07:05] <Mathuin> I haven't found out
yet.
L11[00:07:19] <tawny> good luck,
then!
L12[00:08:32] <Mathuin> Replaced the 100's
with 15's and they fit with clearance
L13[00:09:29] ⇦
Quits: bildramer
(~bildramer@p200300ED83CC9000AC9BCCA14258DFA9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
(Quit: alway rember happy day)
L14[00:10:48] <Mathuin> ... put it on the
launch-pad, the girders flopped, lots of fire. Lots.
L15[00:11:04] <tawny> oh noooo
L16[00:11:13] <tawny> time to revert, I
guess
L17[00:11:32] <Mathuin> Yeah. :-(
L18[00:13:38] <Mathuin> I used autostruts
and rigit attachment, and it still goes all slinky octopus on me.
:-(
L19[00:13:43] <Mathuin> I'm not sure
why.
L20[00:15:46] <JCB> did a 4 relay sat
launcher thing... used docking ports as mounts for them
L21[00:16:19] <JCB> downside was... no
fairings
L22[00:16:44] <JCB> eh.. early career which
I seem to keep reverting back in while testing random things.
L23[00:16:45] <Mathuin> TVR-400L
upside-down?
L26[00:18:34] <Mathuin> Ah, baby time, more
play time later.
L27[00:23:01] <JCB> need sleep too..
lates
L28[00:23:13] ⇦
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()
L29[01:08:04] ⇦
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L30[01:08:35] ⇦
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L31[01:20:58] <Mathuin> There should be a
mod which tells you the interplanetary windows for all the planets
-- Eeloo 8y, 427d or whatever
L32[01:21:22] <Althego> alexmoon thing,
there in the topic
L33[01:21:27] <Althego> ok, not a mod, but
still
L34[01:35:32] ⇨
Joins: GlsFrg|phone
(~GlassFrag@145.69.239.49.rev.vmobile.jp)
L35[01:35:43] ⇦
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L36[01:36:03] ⇨
Joins: Glass|phone
(~GlassFrag@122x216x200x226.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
L37[01:37:24] <taniwha> Mathuin: Kerbal
Alarm Clock
L38[01:37:49] <tawny> there's a mod that
implements alexmoon's planner in-game
L39[01:37:52] <tawny> forget the name
tho
L40[01:38:12] <Althego> that must be the
alarm clock
L41[01:38:15] <tawny> astrogator I think
does what you want
L42[01:38:21] <taniwha> if you mean the
porkchop plots, MJ has that, I think
L43[01:38:33] <taniwha> (or it's an
extension to MJ)
L44[01:38:35] <Althego> why is it called
porkchop?
L45[01:38:46] ⇦
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timeout: 186 seconds)
L46[01:38:49] <Althego> we put a mod in
your mod...
L47[01:38:49] <taniwha> because many of the
plots resemble porkchops
L48[01:39:10] ⇨
Joins: Gasher_ (~Gasher@217.21.212.180)
L49[01:39:40] <mabus> the sweet spot
L50[01:41:08] ⇦
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seconds)
L51[01:46:52] ⇦
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L52[01:50:01] <Mathuin> taniwha: KAC
requires you to set them, I'm talking about something with a window
showing them
L53[01:50:23] <Mathuin> And I'm still
getting runaway maneuvering nodes.
L54[01:50:35] <Mathuin> tawny: got a quad
probe to launch to orbit
L55[01:50:43] <tawny> oh nice
L56[01:51:10] ⇨
Joins: ArcadeEngineer
(uid196613@id-196613.tooting.irccloud.com)
L57[01:52:11] <Mathuin> Probes are
correspondingly tinier.
L58[01:55:04] <Mathuin> I just don't know
why MJ is killing my probes.
L59[01:55:16] <Mathuin> Every launch fails
on circularization.
L60[01:56:07] <tawny> I'm still trying to
figure out what the problem is that I'm having with SMURFF and
interstellar fuel switch
L61[01:56:15] <tawny> anybody use both of
those mods at once?
L62[01:57:38] <Mathuin> Haven't used
either. What does the former do?
L63[01:58:55] ⇨
Joins: Lyneira (~lyneira@145.131.182.134)
L64[01:58:58] <bees> tawny: you usuall can
have only one global part modifier active
L65[01:59:00] <tawny> adjusts engine
thrust/mass and fuel tank dry mass to be closer to IRL values
L66[01:59:14] <bees> tawny:
tweakscale/smurff/fuel switch/ksp r&d, choose one
L67[01:59:17] <tawny> meant for use with
realscale solar system or other things
L68[01:59:21] <tawny> ahh
L69[01:59:22] <tawny> dang
L70[01:59:49] ⇨
Joins: GlsFrg|phone
(~GlassFrag@145.69.239.49.rev.vmobile.jp)
L71[01:59:57] <tawny> I have tweakscale too
and it hasn't seemed to conflict with IFS before but I don't know
if I've actually used both at once
L72[02:00:53] <tawny> I'd seen mentions of
patches or something to make smurff work with IFS in the forum
thread but I couldn't really figure out what was up there
L73[02:01:22] ⇦
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L74[02:05:15] <taniwha> so, how is IFS any
better than MFT?
L75[02:06:29] <tawny> I have no idea if it
is or not, actually. I might try MFT now and see if it's any better
for my purposes
L76[02:06:54] <taniwha> rather curious why
it became popular
L77[02:07:17] <tawny> because it's tied in
with some other mods, I think
L78[02:07:32] <taniwha> well, popular with
the modders, even
L79[02:07:46] <Althego> you two have
confusing names
L80[02:07:59] <tawny> haha
L81[02:08:14] <tawny> it's weird, nobody
ever says my name is confusing irl
L82[02:08:14] <taniwha> heh
L83[02:08:38] <taniwha> irc tab
completion
L84[02:08:52] <bees> /nick tahwin
L85[02:08:54] <tawny> a friend of mine on
another server is named "taffeta"
L86[02:09:44] <Mathuin> The only person
I've heard of with Tawny as a first name was Tawny Kitaen (think
that's how to spell her last name) from some eighties band.
L87[02:10:27] <Mathuin> Whitesnake? can't
remember.
L88[02:14:09] ⇦
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L89[02:15:16] <Mathuin> The loading screen
with the boy and girl kerbals holding hands during re-entry is very
cute.
L90[02:15:39] <tawny> yeah, it's one of my
faves
L91[02:15:50] <tawny> (I think it's Jeb and
Valentina because of the orange suits but I'm not sure)
L92[02:18:24] <Mathuin> It would make a
good background image
L93[02:18:50] <Mathuin> I finally made the
Japanese satellite downloads work as my background, though.
L94[02:19:35] ⇨
Joins: Cranium
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L95[02:19:39] <tawny> Himawari-8?
L96[02:19:46] <tawny> that's pretty
cool
L97[02:20:06] <Mathuin> Yeah, there's a
Python package that I run every ten minutes or so to get the latest
tile set.
L98[02:20:39] <Mathuin> I really should
just go through the effort to get three or four straight days of
images, then cycle through them.
L99[02:20:52] <ConductorCat> :3
L100[02:20:58] <tawny> haha
L101[02:21:17] <tawny> and here I can't
figure out how to keep windows cycling my backgrounds
L102[02:21:39] <Mathuin> Linux is pretty
good that way in general, but Gnome was being fussy.
L103[02:22:14] <Mathuin> I used to archive
a webcomic, and my screensaver was the whole comic start to finish
with a new strip every 5 seconds. That was fun.
L104[02:22:24] <tawny> ooo
L105[02:22:27] <tawny> what
webcomic?
L106[02:22:59] <Mathuin> Avalon. This was
years ago. Jamie Zawinski had written a screensaver module for the
all-your-base meme set, which I adapted
L107[02:23:10] <tawny> ah
L108[02:25:12] <Mathuin> Ugh, even latest
dev MJ is cranky with circularlization
L109[02:26:24] ***
fam is now known as fam_away
L110[02:26:54] <Mathuin> Maybe it's not
MJ, all maneuvering nodes are insane.
L111[02:27:00] <Mathuin> Trying a new save
now.
L112[02:27:49] <Mathuin> BTW new probe:
RA-2 | OKTO2 | battery * 2 | inline wheel | oscar * 2 | spark
L113[02:28:10] <Mathuin> solar panels
around the middle and that's all she wrote
L114[02:37:55] <Mathuin> Same problem
happens in sandbox. Ugh.
L115[02:44:41] ⇦
Quits: Gasher_ (~Gasher@217.21.212.180) (Ping timeout: 183
seconds)
L116[02:47:57] ***
fam_away is now known as fam
L117[02:51:18] <taniwha> Mathuin: what's
the problem with maneuver nodes?
L118[02:53:58]
⇨ Joins: Gasher[work] (~Gasher@217.21.212.180)
L119[03:06:47] <Mathuin> I create a
maneuvering node, either by hand or with a tool. After a moment,
the dV for the node starts increasing, and the direction
changes.
L120[03:07:15] <Mathuin> Using MJ to
ascend with circularization results in a wildly excessive magnitude
circularization node pointed straight down.
L121[03:07:27] <Mathuin> I'm now cleaning
out my mods so I can try a virgin install.
L122[03:09:35] <taniwha> is the node in
the past?
L123[03:09:38] <Mathuin> It's the tiniest
bit dumb that CKAN will not generate a non-human-readable list of
mods which can be uninstalled and installed at will.
L124[03:09:44] <Mathuin> The node was in
the future in all cases.
L125[03:09:57] <taniwha> definitely
odd
L126[03:10:14] <taniwha> current orbit
stable? (ie, not changing)
L127[03:10:39] <taniwha> (eg, burning, or
vessel in atmosphere)
L128[03:11:04] <Mathuin> Yes, stable. I
use the ascent guidance (or the Gravity Turn mod) to get up so the
orbits are like 150 x 48 or better with the vessel above 75
L129[03:11:22] <Mathuin> I just removed
all my mods (I think)
L130[03:11:29] <taniwha> ok, very
definitely odd
L131[03:14:32] <Mathuin> "Staging Mun
Landing" nice
L132[03:15:13] <Truga> staging mun landing
is perfectly normal
L133[03:15:37] <Truga> ask me about my
trip to the mun with no liquid engines :v
L134[03:15:54] <Truga> (don't do it, it
wasn't very fun imo)
L135[03:16:33] ⇦
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L136[03:21:42]
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L137[03:23:55] <Mathuin> Didn't someone do
it using nothing other than separators?
L138[03:24:27] <Mathuin> Unrelated news,
I'm crap without mods so I haven't gotten to the maneuvering node
state yet
L139[03:24:41] <Rolf> Mathuin: one guy
went to mun and back with just 3 parts
L140[03:24:45] <Mathuin> And it can't be
the homebrew mead I'm drinking, that just improves my rocket
skills. >.>
L141[03:24:49] <Mathuin> Wait, 3
parts/!
L142[03:24:54] <Mathuin> Must learn more
of this
L143[03:24:55] <Rolf> his method to
seperate parts was... interesting
L144[03:25:13] <Rolf> because seperator
count as parts. so does struts
L145[03:25:28] <Althego> i think mun and
back is a lot harder with 3 parts now
L146[03:25:42] <Rolf> but same time we
have more powerful parts
L147[03:25:43] <Althego> since the
atmosphere changes
L148[03:29:20]
⇨ Joins: Kabouik (~kabouik@158.38.1.70)
L149[03:30:23] <Mathuin> Okay, zero mods,
no problem.
L150[03:30:25] <Mathuin> Grr.
L151[03:30:40]
⇨ Joins: McKaby (~Forgon@95.148.116.12)
L152[03:30:49] <taniwha> Mathuin:
actually, yay
L153[03:31:10] <taniwha> because it means
it's a mod and mod authors tend to be more responsive (because they
can)
L154[03:31:57] <Mathuin> Sure, but I
didn't update my mods between known-good and recent-bad
L155[03:32:01] <Mathuin> So... wtf
L156[03:32:12] <Mathuin> pardon my
abbreviated French
L157[03:33:20] <Truga> i'd say new atmo
makes getting to mun easier due to lower dv needed?
L158[03:33:33]
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L159[03:33:34] ⇦
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L160[03:33:38] <Mathuin> Harder to
elegantly turn, in my opinion.
L161[03:33:47] <Mathuin> But I've only
been playing since 2014
L162[03:34:05] <Truga> er
L163[03:34:12] <Truga> why?
L164[03:34:51] <Mathuin> Why what?
L165[03:34:57] <Truga> why harder to
turn?
L166[03:35:10] <Truga> also which version
is 2014 :p
L167[03:35:14] <Mathuin> Because with the
old atmosphere you could make 90 degree turns and get to
orbit
L168[03:35:29] <taniwha> that is not
elegant
L169[03:35:38] <Mathuin> I agree
entirely.
L170[03:35:51] <Mathuin> Elegant is least
cost path, real gravity turns.
L171[03:36:00] <taniwha> elegant is a
small turn just off the pad, then hands off :)
L172[03:36:01] <Mathuin> Not possible in
old atmo, required in new.
L173[03:36:16] <taniwha> was possible in
old
L174[03:36:19] <taniwha> just
wasteful
L175[03:38:00] <Mathuin> Wasteful to the
point of being impractical, but yes, theoretically possible.
L176[03:38:05] <Truga> you can still do
the 10km up then turn thing :p
L177[03:38:16] <Mathuin> I'm now doing the
binary search of mods to identify the problem.
L178[03:38:31] <Mathuin> ... can you
really just turn left at ten kilometers? I haven't tried, to be
honest.
L179[03:38:44] <taniwha> Truga: only if
your ship is marginally stable
L180[03:38:55] <Truga> just add more
gimbal thrust :D
L181[03:39:05] <Mathuin> I imagine most
KSP crafts are more artistic than stable.
L182[03:39:11] <Mathuin> Asparagus
staging, sigh. :-)
L183[03:39:20] <Truga> is asparagus even
worth it anymore
L184[03:39:27] <taniwha> yes
L185[03:39:27] <Mathuin> I hope not.
L186[03:39:38] <Mathuin> Noooo!
L187[03:39:42] <Truga> like, for
ridiculous things I'm sure but
L188[03:39:44] <Mathuin>
(seriouisly?)
L189[03:39:47] <Truga> well, yeah
L190[03:39:58] <Truga> it's good staging,
that'd also be practically impossible irl
L191[03:40:12] <Truga> i don't think you
can crossfeed that much fuel
L192[03:40:52] <taniwha> the problem is
you would need extra turbo-pumps
L193[03:41:03] <taniwha> more mass and
more points of failure
L194[03:41:50] <Truga> iirc there were
some boosters at one point that fed into the central tank while
burning, but it was a very small amount of fuel, relatively to the
whole rocket
L195[03:41:57] <taniwha> certainly can do
it, but how much it would gain and how reliable it would be are
other matters
L196[03:41:58] <Mathuin> Okay, with
GravityTurn but without MechJeb, getting stable maneuvering
nodes.
L197[03:42:17] <Truga> meanwhile those
pipes in ksp have infinite width
L198[03:44:37]
⇨ Joins: tawny
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L199[03:46:37] <Mathuin> Not to mention a
callous disregard for the Reynold's number.
L200[03:47:16] <taniwha> FAR :)
L201[03:47:40] <Truga> FAR is really good
now
L202[03:47:44] <Truga> i like it a
lot
L203[03:47:59] <Mathuin> What's the
twenty-words-or-less ELI5 on FAR
L204[03:48:17] <taniwha> what's
ELI5?
L205[03:48:20] <tawny> it makes
aerodynamics work more realistically
L206[03:48:28] <Mathuin> Explain Like I'm
5 years old
L207[03:48:40] <taniwha> if you can see
it, it causes drag
L208[03:48:44] <Truga> last time I
checked, it takes your rocket/plane, makes it into a voxel shape,
and calculates fluid flow around it
L209[03:48:44] <flo> dudududadada
L210[03:48:46] <tawny> simulating it based
on the shape of your craft as a whole rather than estimating it
based on each individual part's aerodynamic properties added
together
L211[03:49:10] <taniwha> Truga: not many
5yos know "voxel"
L212[03:49:12] <taniwha> :)
L213[03:49:23] <Truga>
"minecraft"
L214[03:49:26] <tawny> ksp's stock
aerodynamics have gotten way better since the last time I played,
but they're still iffy
L215[03:49:49] <Mathuin> Will FAR make me
more frustrated or more happy when I play
L216[03:50:00] <Mathuin> My time is
limited, and I prefer game to simulation these days for KSP
L217[03:50:01] <Truga> depends on what
your goal is or what kinds of challenges you like
L218[03:50:13] <tawny> uhhh depends on how
many planes you're going to be making mostly
L219[03:50:27] <taniwha> my 8yo has been
playing minecraft for a while (and watching it on youtube)
L220[03:50:32] <Truga> FAR will absolutely
destroy your rockets if you let them roll over even a bit
L221[03:50:33] <taniwha> she doesn't know
what a voxel is
L222[03:50:39] <taniwha> (just
asked:)
L223[03:50:41] <Truga> yeah
"minecraft blocks"
L224[03:50:42] <tawny> if you're just
doing rockets, it'll be roughly the same either way I think except
with FAR you might have to keep them more stable now
L225[03:50:43] <Truga> :D
L226[03:51:00] <Truga> should've clarified
sorry
L227[03:51:03] <Mathuin> Planes are pretty
much ways to get science from Kerbin
L228[03:51:14] <Mathuin> KSP science
renders planes less significant
L229[03:51:18] <taniwha> tawny: something
(cargo bays? fairings?) don't prevent drag properly
L230[03:51:21] <taniwha> (stock)
L231[03:51:39] <taniwha> (ie, parts inside
the [whatever] still cause drag, from what I've heard)
L232[03:51:41] <tawny> if FAR's destroying
your rockets when they roll a little, it's probably because their
center of pressure is too high above the center of mass
L233[03:51:51] <Mathuin> I thought there
was a ton of dragless massles parts still
L234[03:52:00] <Truga> but yeah, for uh...
"correct" rocket launching, FAR and stock is mostly the
same now
L235[03:52:02] <Mathuin> in stock I
mean
L236[03:52:03] <tawny> uhhhh that might be
the case? I didn't test cargo bays or fairings myself when I was
doing my tests of the aerodynamics
L237[03:52:10] <taniwha> Mathuin: no, just
physicsless
L238[03:52:13] <Truga> get ~100m/s in,
bump it 3-5 degrees east, wait.
L239[03:52:15] <taniwha> which is quite
different now
L240[03:52:22] <Mathuin> "just
physicsless"
L241[03:52:28] <tawny> or rather I didn't
test them open vs closed or cargo bay vs no cargo bay
L242[03:52:28] <taniwha> (before it meant
massless, but now the mass is added into the parent's mass)
L243[03:52:38] <Mathuin> I really hope
this gets fixed by the time my kid wants to play KSP
L244[03:52:46] <tawny> fairings do help
over no fairings but I'm not sure how to check how accurate they
are
L245[03:52:46] <taniwha> unfortunately, it
also means CoM and MoI is wrong
L246[03:53:04] <Mathuin> MoI being wrong
is the bane of autopilots everywhere from what I have read.
L247[03:53:06] <Truga> that said, getting
things into orbit on 10x scale kerbin early in the career was a bit
of a challenge
L248[03:53:12] <Truga> because no
struts
L249[03:53:19] <Mathuin> <3
struts
L250[03:53:34] <Mathuin> Should not have
waited so long to learn of advanced tweakables
L251[03:53:55] <taniwha> do you make much
use of "aim camera"? :)
L252[03:54:02] <Mathuin> I have used it
exactly once
L253[03:54:12] <Mathuin> But I have only
known of it for 36h
L254[03:54:22] <taniwha> ah
L255[03:54:24] <Mathuin> And I am
*supposed* to be packing for holiday trips
L256[03:54:29] <tawny> I use aim camera a
ton, but mostly only to take screenshots or keep a craft centered
how I want it
L257[03:54:30] <Truga> what's aim
camera
L258[03:54:34] <Mathuin> But for some
reason launching green men into space...
L259[03:54:39] <taniwha> well, it's great
for getting at that tiny part on the wrong end of a long
vessel
L260[03:54:55] <Mathuin> taniwha: like a
scientific instrument in a cargo bay
L261[03:55:02] <tawny> ah yeah
L262[03:55:03] <taniwha> Mathuin:
exactly
L263[03:55:06] <taniwha> or a docking
port
L264[03:55:19] <taniwha> in fact, you can
use aim-camera cross-vessel, I think
L265[03:55:33] <Mathuin> Now that's
potentially awesome
L266[03:55:33] <tawny> I think I've used
it to help turn on and off some rcs thrusters on the Moa IIIB which
is very unwieldyly tall
L267[03:55:46] <tawny> because I keep
forgetting to do action groups for that >.>
L268[03:55:48] <Mathuin> Kerbal x is my
go-to test craft in sandbox
L269[03:55:50] <taniwha> anyway, I added
that in while I was in Squad last year
L270[03:55:58] <tawny> oh nice
L271[03:56:22] <Mathuin> The #2 thing I
need to be better at is arbitrary action groups
L272[03:56:22] <taniwha> it caused some
grief, but the others (that mattered) thought it was worthwhile so
they got it working reliably while I was at my day job
L273[03:56:28] <Mathuin> Did you lke
working there?
L274[03:56:32] <taniwha> I did
L275[03:56:39] <Mathuin> Bummer it
stopped, then.
L276[03:57:09] <Mathuin> I left the
computer industry to work in wine for a reason, but I do miss it
from time to time.
L277[03:57:17] <taniwha> yeah
L278[03:57:43] <tawny> oh also I think I
noticed why MFT isn't as popular as IFS- it doesn't seem to be on
CKAN for some reason? which is weird since last I saw it was
updated to the latest version and I swear I've seen it in ckan
before
L279[03:57:45] <Truga> you could be
working in wine and still be working on computers tbh, don't say
you're out yet :D
L280[03:58:07] <taniwha> tawny: ah,
forgot, I need to update it for 1.3.1 (throws an NRE in the
editor)
L281[03:58:10] <Mathuin> Hahaha, I would
100% work for the rent in computers and still do honey wine on the
weekends, once I get this degree.
L282[03:58:10] <Truga> robbit pickers,
coming to a winyard near you soon
L283[03:58:14] <taniwha> mostly harmless,
but...
L284[03:58:19] <tawny> ahhh haha
L285[03:58:39] <taniwha> still, even for
earlier KSP versions
L286[03:58:39] <Mathuin> Finally! First
half of the mods + MJ, nodes are sane.
L287[03:58:51] <taniwha> (eg, why did all
the other switchers take off?)
L288[03:58:56] <Gasher[work]> hm, i used a
two satellites clamped together on one craft to get two missions
done over Mun at once but the game thinks that the seconf craft
does not fulfill the condtion of "make a new craft"
L289[03:59:00] <tawny> yeah
L290[03:59:06] <Mathuin> I can probably
identify the offending addon or addons later, and no offense I'd
rather drink than play KSP at this point.
L291[03:59:17] <tawny> honestly I have no
idea because that was the exact time period I'd stopped playing the
game in >.>
L292[03:59:32] <Mathuin> Gasher[work]: was
the sub assembly made after the contract or before?
L293[03:59:40] <Gasher[work]> before
L294[03:59:43] <Gasher[work]> damn
L295[03:59:52] <Mathuin> I think that's
the ticket
L296[03:59:53] <tawny> I can guess that
IFS took off because it paired it with some other related mods
which have their own appeal? but there are one or two other fuel
switch mods I think
L297[03:59:54] <Gasher[work]> i got
contracts then made a craft
L298[03:59:58] <Mathuin> doh
L299[04:00:51] <Gasher[work]> so?
L300[04:00:54] <taniwha> tawny: I suspect
it's mainly ignorance (players) and NIH (modders)
L301[04:01:08] <tawny> NIH?
L302[04:01:12] <taniwha> not invented
here
L303[04:01:14] <tawny> ah
L304[04:01:42] <tawny> also I is before M
alphabetically :p so maybe people get impatient scrolling through
mod lists and don't see MFT
L305[04:01:56] <taniwha> heh, maybe
L306[04:02:35] <taniwha> still, I'm
working on a replacement for MFT (main holdback now is UI)
L307[04:03:09] <taniwha> asking so I can
have an idea on how to remedy the situation
L308[04:03:21] <taniwha> (since most of
the other switchers aren't really all that good)
L309[04:04:14] <tawny> in a moment I'll be
able to test MFT and see what I think of it
L310[04:04:38] <Gasher[work]> Mathuin, so
what;s the problem?
L311[04:04:45] <Mathuin> Gasher[work]:
with yours or mine? :-)
L312[04:04:52] <tawny> the odds are in
your favor since I'm not a huge fan of all the bits of extra
information IFS adds to the right-click editor menu haha
L313[04:04:56] <Gasher[work]> with two
satellites
L314[04:05:00] <taniwha> tawny: I wouldn't
be surprised if the mainly numeric interface puts many off
L315[04:05:02] <Mathuin> With yours, I
suspect it's because you created the subassembly in advance of the
contract
L316[04:05:07] <Gasher[work]> is it a
known thing or random bug
L317[04:05:18] <Mathuin> Recreate the sub,
reassemble the vehicle, see what happens
L318[04:05:18] <Gasher[work]> ah, i made
it after
L319[04:05:25] <taniwha> (though it does
detect connected engines and give fuel-mix options when there is
available space)
L320[04:05:26] <Mathuin> Oh, I thought you
made it before
L321[04:05:39] <Mathuin> If you did all
the work after, I have no help. :-(
L322[04:05:46] <Gasher[work]> yeah i made
a mistake by answering that then corrected myself
L323[04:05:50] <Gasher[work]> aha
L324[04:05:57] <taniwha> Gasher[work]: so
both vessels were launched after you accepted the contract?
L325[04:05:57] <Truga> speaking of numeric
interfaces
L326[04:06:02] <Gasher[work]> taniwha,
yes
L327[04:06:17] <taniwha> got the save file
handy? I can take a look
L328[04:06:21] <Truga> ask me how I play
in RO mode without any dv calculation
L329[04:06:28] <taniwha> (I know what to
look for for the "new" test)
L330[04:06:37] <taniwha> Truga: heh
L331[04:06:39] <Truga> (I actually eye
things pretty well so far, surprisingly enough)
L332[04:06:48] <Truga> but yeah, I'll need
it when I head to the mun I think
L333[04:07:17] <Gasher[work]> taniwha, em,
where do i put it?
L334[04:07:26] <taniwha> any sharing
site
L335[04:07:34] <taniwha> eg, dropbox
L336[04:07:39] <taniwha> (preferably
zipped)
L337[04:07:54] <Mathuin> Truga: how do you
play in RO mode without dV calculation? Eyeballing seems pretty
risky.
L338[04:08:01] <Gasher[work]> yeah did
that but i don't remember any passwords to my dropbox and
such
L339[04:08:16] <Gasher[work]> any free
sharing sites?
L340[04:08:25] <Truga> Mathuin I get left
with a few dv still in the tank, but normal difficulty career seems
pretty lenient
L341[04:08:39] <taniwha> (and people
wonder why I run my own server)
L342[04:09:03] <Mathuin> Truga: Normal
difficulty career isn't too bad but I lean heavily on mods for
getting to orbit because that's not the part I like to play
L343[04:09:33] <Mathuin> Some day before I
die I want to play KSP as a party game, but day-to-day I just want
to get to orbit and then do things
L345[04:11:27] <Truga> I like driving my
rockets manually
L346[04:11:39] <Truga> also I'm too dumb
to use mechjeb for the monstrosities I launch
L347[04:12:10] <taniwha> Gasher[work]:
what's the name of the vessel?
L348[04:12:12] <Mathuin> I'm
anti-monstrosity
L349[04:12:30] <Mathuin> If it doesn't
look like something Gene would have launched, I don't launch
it
L350[04:12:47] <tawny> gene?
L351[04:12:53] <taniwha> Mathuin: same,
thus why EL :)
L352[04:13:11] <Gasher[work]> taniwha,
eeeeeeeeh, wait
L354[04:13:32] <taniwha> (I did have to
settle for some semi-monstrosities, but they flew in FAR,
so...)
L355[04:13:33] <tawny> ahhhh
L356[04:13:45] <tawny> EL?
L357[04:13:52] <taniwha> extraplanetary
launchpads
L358[04:13:59] <taniwha> build ships
anywhere :)
L359[04:14:01] <Mathuin> tawny++ for
asking the obv
L361[04:14:08] <tawny> ah right
L362[04:14:10] <Gasher[work]> they fly so
FAR? :D
L363[04:14:12] <Truga> best rocket I ever
built
L364[04:14:14] <Truga> :D
L365[04:14:23] <tawny> I should've known
haha
L366[04:14:24] <Althego> lol
L367[04:14:29] <Gasher[work]> lol
L368[04:14:30] <taniwha> tawny: :)
L369[04:14:32] <tawny> but abbreviations
aren't really my strong point
L370[04:14:37] <taniwha> no worries
L371[04:14:51] <Truga> and yes, that's FAR
so I needed the fairing
L372[04:15:19] <Truga> I think
L373[04:15:24] <Gasher[work]> taniwha,
"Untitled Space...
L374[04:15:34] <Gasher[work]> lol i loaded
the game and contract worked
L375[04:15:39] <Gasher[work]> great
L376[04:15:44] <Truga> nice
L377[04:15:46] <Gasher[work]> so, random
glitch
L378[04:15:55] <Gasher[work]> taniwha,
thanks anyway
L379[04:15:59] <Truga> bugs you can't
easily reproduce are the best
L380[04:16:05]
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L382[04:16:13] <Truga> by which I mean
worst, obviously
L383[04:16:16] <Gasher[work]>
"Untitled Space Craft Probe" btw
L384[04:17:20] <tawny> Truga, what even
did you have in that enormous fairing
L385[04:17:34] <taniwha> Gasher[work]:
yeah, I was looking at it and thinking it should work
L386[04:17:41] <tawny> I know it's
probably some upper stages but I can only imagine you're trying to
fly Megatron into orbit or something
L387[04:17:43] <Gasher[work]> Truga, i'd
say bugs that you can't recognise
L388[04:17:57] <taniwha> (launchID on all
parts = 23, contract launchID = 23...)
L390[04:18:30] <Truga> (the engine on one
end is how it landed)
L391[04:18:38] <Mathuin> Okay, top 75% of
addons are okay, will deal later
L392[04:18:40] <Truga> also now
counterweight :D
L393[04:19:07] <Gasher[work]> taniwha, i
checked that it had greened points of "maintain
stability" and such when it was loaded last time, and the only
point that was not green was the make a new vessel
L394[04:19:13] <Gasher[work]> now it
worked
L395[04:19:14] <tawny> nice
L396[04:19:41] <Gasher[work]> so, maybe
the issue was that it had decoupled from the other vessel in that
game session?
L397[04:20:24] <taniwha> Gasher[work]:
must be a bug in the checking algo (ie, it forgets to check
properly normally, but does check properly when loading the
vessel)
L398[04:20:34] <taniwha> oh,
possibly
L399[04:20:40] <Gasher[work]> yeah, sound
plausible
L400[04:20:42] <taniwha> since they are
all the same launchID
L401[04:20:55] <Gasher[work]> so in this
case, reload :D
L402[04:21:18] <taniwha> yeah, when in
doubt, cycle the game (f5/f9)
L403[04:21:47] <Gasher[work]> aha
L404[04:26:57] ⇦
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L406[04:29:17] <Truga> that last one is
pretty good
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L408[04:32:51] <Rolf> such a long name for
tiny machine
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L411[05:02:30]
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L412[05:02:36] <mudpit> Hello
L413[05:02:37] <Mod9000> Hello,
mudpit
L414[05:04:44] <mudpit> I have a question
about MechJeb, when I execute a burn and there is a stage change
during the burn, (so different engines are used) MechJeb seems to
calculate wrong the burn time, messing it. Does anyone suffer it
also?
L415[05:05:01] <Deddly> hmm
L416[05:05:08] <mudpit> Usually a more
powerful engine starts the burn and then in the meantime a less
powerful starts
L417[05:05:22] <Deddly> I don't use
mechjeb but I know a lot of people here do
L418[05:05:35] <mudpit> So a longer burn
time should be used, ex in the circularization after an autopilot
launch
L419[05:05:55] <mudpit> Thanks
Deddly
L420[05:06:06] <Deddly> So doesn't it burn
longer for the second stage?
L421[05:06:13] <mudpit> I hope someone
notices, because is a bit annoying :)
L422[05:06:16] <mudpit> Yes
L423[05:06:46] <Deddly> Sorry: it DOES
burn longer for the second stage or it DOESN'T burn longer for the
second stage?
L424[05:06:47] <Truga> aren't burns
calculated by dv rather than time?
L425[05:06:53] <mudpit> Example, a
Mainsail starts the burn at launchpad and reachs Pe objective, then
coast to it and execute circularization
L426[05:07:36] <mudpit> You have some fuel
left, the burn starts with mainsail and after some seconds stage is
advanced and a Jumper engine finishes the burn
L427[05:07:51] <mudpit> Burn time seems to
be calculated for Mainsail Thrust
L428[05:08:00] <Truga> rip
L429[05:08:47] <mudpit> So maybe it
estimates 30 secs, starts burn at -15, but with the jumper,
effective bur time is 1m30s
L430[05:08:57] <Deddly> mudpit, so if I
understand correctly, the burn is not completed and you reenter the
atmosphere. Is that right?
L431[05:09:07] <mudpit> And then you
finish missing Ap
L432[05:09:21] <mudpit> Burn is compelted,
but instead of a circular orbit
L433[05:09:29] <mudpit> Say 80/80
L434[05:09:39] <mudpit> You finish at
maybe 90/65
L435[05:09:51] <mudpit> Pe/Ap
L436[05:10:27] <mudpit> Because burn took
longer than estimated and started later
L437[05:10:39] <Deddly> Ah I get it
L438[05:10:58] ⇦
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L439[05:11:05] <Deddly> Hmmmm
L440[05:11:49] <mudpit> The thing is I
recall not having this problem pre 1.3 It has been some time since
I last played KSP
L441[05:11:51] <Deddly> Well I'm sure that
if you hang around for a little while, someone else more
knowledgeable about MJ will be able to help :)
L442[05:12:06] <mudpit> Thanks a lot
Deddly
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L446[05:22:21] <Deddly> Sorry mudpit,
seems like a quiet time :(
L447[05:23:40] <mudpit> No problem, I'll
keep it open in case someone notices, or maybe take some
screenshots and open a forum thread with it
L448[05:23:55] <mudpit> Thanks anyways for
the help!
L449[05:25:36]
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L450[05:31:00] <taniwha> mudpit: yeah, MJ
usually gets multi-stage burns wrong
L451[05:31:15] <taniwha> I think even
Better Burn Time does
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L455[05:59:35] ***
fam is now known as fam_away
L456[06:00:52] <mudpit> taniwha: Ok then,
so it's not my fault. I will have to mod my ship to autopilot
then.
L457[06:00:55] <mudpit> Thanks a
lot!
L458[06:05:57] <Althego> autopilot active,
warp drive active, warping to stargate
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L472[07:39:48] <Iskierka> MJ can mess up
if the apoapsis ends up behind you. it's fine with long and
multi-stage burns, but it targets an orbit size and if you launch
poorly and get it thrusting on the wrong side it won't fix it
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L478[07:58:16] <Fluburtur> man this
screen
L479[07:59:03] <Mat2ch> what's up with
it?
L480[07:59:29] <Fluburtur> refuses to turn
on if it's too cold
L481[07:59:36] <Fluburtur> so I have to
hairdrier it
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L485[08:01:50] <Mat2ch> hrm
L486[08:01:52] <Mat2ch> weird
L487[08:02:14] <Mat2ch> usually
electronics work better at colder temperatures
L488[08:02:27] <Mat2ch> also LCDs will get
a problem below freezing point
L489[08:02:43] <Fluburtur> well it's not
below freezing
L490[08:02:51] <Fluburtur> or else I
wouldn't be there to use it
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L492[08:03:19] <Mat2ch> well, there are
some that go to -55° C. But not the usualy soho stuff
L493[08:03:36] <Mat2ch> that's even
weirder.
L494[08:04:51] <Fluburtur> I think it's
just a bad capacitor or whatever
L495[08:05:01] <Fluburtur> the tv im using
is like 10 years old anyways
L496[08:05:01] <Mat2ch> Could be some cold
solder joint
L497[08:05:17] <Mat2ch> capacitors also
should work better, when they're cold
L498[08:05:48] ⇦
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L499[08:06:23] <Fluburtur> eh
L500[08:06:30] <Fluburtur> stuff don't
usually works like it's supposed too
L501[08:06:57] <Draconiator> the last CRT
I remember actually using was on one of my older computers...and it
died on me. Red and green cathodes wouldn't fire so I was stuck
with a blue screen, literally.
L502[08:08:09] <Fluburtur> would have been
funnier if only the green one worked
L503[08:08:20] <Fluburtur> old school
monochrome screen, sell it as a fallout prop
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L505[08:09:26] <petti> monochrome screens
are niiice, sharp.
L506[08:10:43] ⇦
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L507[08:11:14] <Draconiator> I still
remember the stats of that thing too...1.1GHZ Celeron processor,
512MB RAM (upgraded from 128), GeForce 4000 series.....literally a
petrified potato lol
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L509[08:11:35] <SopaXorzTaker> Fluburtur,
that's an idea
L510[08:11:45] <SopaXorzTaker> remove the
connections to the red and blue guns
L511[08:11:52] <Fluburtur> sometimes I
watch money distributors or train station screens reboot and I rolf
at the stats
L512[08:11:56] <SopaXorzTaker> or cut the
appropriate wires coming from the VGA connector
L513[08:12:06] <SopaXorzTaker> and sell it
as a retro monitor :P
L514[08:12:11] <Fluburtur> heh
L515[08:12:23] <Fluburtur> btw was it you
that wnted to make the cubesat?
L516[08:12:28] <SopaXorzTaker> Fluburtur,
a retro-VGA adapter would sell well
L517[08:12:41] <SopaXorzTaker> yes, it's
me who wanted to make a cubesat
L519[08:13:18] <Fluburtur> kinda weak but
eh
L520[08:13:24] <Fluburtur> you can improve
the antenna
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L529[08:43:33] <APlayer> Hi!
L530[08:43:37] <Fluburtur> yo
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L536[09:15:03] <Kerbalyst> hi guys
L537[09:15:33] <Kerbalyst> anyone know if
its possible to make cockpits to 2,5m with tweakscale?
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L540[09:31:03] <APlayer> Kerbalyst: What
kind of cockpits?
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L550[09:55:53] <awang> Under what
circumstances can vessel be null in the flight scene?
L551[09:56:10] <awang> I'm getting a ton
of NREs in my log
L552[09:56:18] <awang> From
FlightGlobals.get_ship_srfVelocity
L553[09:56:18] <Althego> crashed?
L554[09:56:20] <awang> And ModuleRCS
L555[09:56:32] <awang>
*ModuleRCS.FixedUpdate
L556[09:56:58] <awang> This is when
launching a vessel
L557[09:57:13] <awang> So physics hasn't
even loaded yet
L558[09:58:24] <awang> Also
FlightGlobals.GetFoR
L559[09:58:35] <awang> And
InternalSpace.InternalToWorld
L560[09:58:48] <awang> And
VesselAutopilotUI.LateUpdate
L561[09:58:53] <Iskierka> any circumstance
under which you pass a null reference
L562[09:59:05] <Iskierka> null means
you're talking about a ship that doesn't exist
L563[09:59:20] <Iskierka> which, if
talking about before physics, kinda makes sense
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L566[10:01:23] <awang> I guess that makes
sense
L567[10:01:32] <awang> There's some other
interesting behavior
L568[10:01:42] <awang> Like all icons on
the navball appearing in the same place
L569[10:01:57] <awang> And launch clamp
smoke puffs emitting every second or so
L570[10:02:06] <awang> And engine bells
glowing, but no particles being emitted
L571[10:02:25] <ve2dmn> sounds like you
have a few mods that aren't cooperating
L572[10:03:00] <awang> Maybe?
L573[10:03:10] <awang> Things were working
perfectly fine before, though
L574[10:03:18] <awang> I didn't change
anything
L575[10:03:21] <awang> Or at least I don't
think so
L576[10:04:38] <ve2dmn> maybe you have the
NaN virus!
L577[10:04:56] <awang> NaN virus?
L578[10:05:01] <ve2dmn> I'm joking.
L579[10:05:28] <awang> From what I've
heard about KSP, I wouldn't be half surprised if that were an
actual thing
L580[10:05:31] <ve2dmn> NaN (not a number)
tends to 'infect' other number to become NaM
L581[10:05:58] <sandbox> has the world
ended yet?
L582[10:06:17] <ve2dmn> sandbox: posponned
to next week because of the weather
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L587[10:08:18] <Iskierka> any operation
involving a NaN results in NaN, so if it's done and saved without
checks NaNs will spread to related numbers, which will be related
to other things
L588[10:08:49] <Althego> can be really bad
in simulation, it infests everything
L589[10:09:40] <Iskierka> NaN checks are
expensive though so not normally done; need to limit them to where
NaNs can potentially start
L590[10:09:58] <ve2dmn> ^
L591[10:10:17] <Iskierka> trying to stop
the infection after it starts won't work
L592[10:10:17] <ve2dmn> a 'good'
simulation, will force a value in the case of NaN... but <insert
what Iskierka said>
L593[10:10:20] <Kerbalyst> i want to
change cockpit ke-111 to size 2,5m it is possible??
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L595[10:10:40] <Althego> everything is
possible
L596[10:11:05] <Kerbalyst> how i can
rescale it to 2,5? with tweakscale i cant :S
L597[10:11:20] <awang> I see
L598[10:11:27] <Althego> i guess it is
possible to edit the config
L599[10:11:27] <ve2dmn> Kerbalyst: there's
an app for that ®™
L600[10:11:40] <Althego> maybe with module
manager
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L604[10:12:00] ***
mkv is now known as m4v
L605[10:12:14] <Althego> but i have no use
of such things, so i know little of them
L606[10:12:23] <Kerbalyst> can you let me
download link for that??
L607[10:12:45] <Kerbalyst> i dont know how
to change config file
L608[10:13:03] <Althego> neither do
i
L609[10:14:19] <Kerbalyst> module manager?
i can do it with this?
L610[10:14:41] <ve2dmn> Kerbalyst: wait...
do you have any mods installed?
L611[10:14:52] <Kerbalyst> yes a lot of
mods
L612[10:15:17] <ve2dmn> then I suggest you
don't play around with Module manager too much
L613[10:15:18] <Althego> try to summon the
resident ex dev :)
L614[10:16:02] <ve2dmn> might be easier to
find a mod that implement Mk2/mk3 version of mk1 cockpits (and
vice-versa)
L615[10:16:22] <Kerbalyst> i have
tweakscale
L616[10:16:30] <Kerbalyst> but dont works
with sxt
L617[10:16:38] <ve2dmn> :/
L618[10:17:54] <Kerbalyst> there are any
other alternative?
L619[10:18:27] <ve2dmn> beside making your
own mod? No idea
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L622[10:23:23] <Kerbalyst> how i can
resize as this?
L623[10:23:34] <Althego> we still need
stock propellers
L624[10:23:41] <Althego> preferably
electric
L625[10:28:41] <ve2dmn> I can only imagine
that the range of an electric plane would be very low, giving the
current weigh of batteries
L626[10:29:01] <Althego> in ksp they are
light
L627[10:29:08] <Althego> also in
realitythey have infinite range
L628[10:29:15] <Althego> just as they have
in ksp
L629[10:29:52] <Althego> you just have to
build them
L630[10:30:05] <Althego> and the yare
absically a separate ship inside a bigger one
L631[10:30:21] <ve2dmn> or more precisly:
as-long-as-you-get-enough-power-from-the-solar-panels range
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L633[10:30:33] <ve2dmn> you won't get a
long of range at night :D
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L646[11:16:14] <Fluburtur> bwoop
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L648[11:36:24] <Mathuin> Accidentally quit
instead of reverted. No death, just probes in the wrong
orbits
L649[11:36:31] <Black_Eagle> what's eve's
atmo like? thinking about aerobraking but i have no idea how deep i
should plunge
L650[11:37:34] <Black_Eagle> and that's
for capture, not landing
L651[11:38:37] <Black_Eagle> perhaps F5 is
my f riend
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L653[11:45:27] <Mathuin> Is it possible to
fly by the Mun and drop off a probe then slingshot to Minmus, or is
the alignment too hard to pull that off?
L654[11:45:32] <Mathuin>
s/possible/practical/
L655[11:47:00] <Althego> mun doesnt do a
big gravity assist on you
L656[11:47:23] <Althego> so technically
you can do it, but it is pointless to hope for free delta v
L657[11:47:49] <Mathuin> Ah okay
L658[11:47:57] <UmbralRaptor> Possible,
but more for showing off than practicality.
L659[11:48:11] <Mathuin> I can wait for
them to be aligned so it's just a shorter angle
L660[11:48:24] <Mathuin> I don't need to
enter Mun's SOI, I'm dropping off a probe with its own power
L661[11:49:43] <ve2dmn> Mathuin: it's not
worth the assle
L662[11:50:01] <Mathuin> I have four
probes, I only need two. :-)
L663[11:50:13] <Mathuin> I guess I could
keep the other two in orbit in case something else needs
them.
L664[11:51:02] <UmbralRaptor> On orbit
spares is amusingly realistic.
L665[11:51:55] <ve2dmn> UmbralRaptor:
Safety Factor
L666[11:52:06] <UmbralRaptor> yeah
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L670[11:54:17] <Mathuin> I now have relay
probes in "highly elliptical orbits" 150k peri, 83m
apo
L671[11:54:41] <ve2dmn> 83meters?
L672[11:54:46] <Mathuin> 83
megameters
L673[11:55:13] <Mathuin> Takes 21d from
peri to apo, and they're in opposition, so I don't see Kerbin
getting in the way of any transmissions any time soon.
L674[11:56:17] <ve2dmn> sound a bit like
my latest asteroid capture...
L675[11:56:24] <Mathuin> I can carry four
of these things, wanted to drop two off at each of the moons.
L676[11:57:58] <ve2dmn> ... the one where
I have all the equipement I need to make my own fuel... except an
ore container
L677[11:59:02] <ve2dmn> so now I have to
launch a container with a docking port on a highly elyptic orbit
just so I can make 58m/s of dV every 24h
L678[11:59:15] <Mathuin> and that stupid
bug hit me, so I'm accidentally deorbiting
L679[11:59:45] <Mathuin> Waste of cash,
alas
L680[11:59:57] <ve2dmn> ?
L681[12:00:07] <Mathuin> I made a
maneuvering node.
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L684[12:00:37] <Mathuin> I told it to
maneuver
L685[12:00:40] <Mathuin> It went
insane
L686[12:00:48] <Mathuin> This is the thing
I spent two hours debugging last night.
L687[12:00:51] <Mathuin> Thought it was
fixed.
L688[12:00:56] <Mathuin> Turns out it
isn't.
L689[12:01:18] <ve2dmn> kOS?
L690[12:01:23] <Mathuin> Not
involved
L691[12:01:26] <Mathuin> Just me
L692[12:01:29] <Mathuin> And 37 mods
L693[12:01:31] <ve2dmn> krpc?
L694[12:01:41] <Mathuin> Nope. MJ but
thatw asn't the problem.
L695[12:01:57] <Mathuin> I binary searched
my mods and was unable to recreate
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L721[12:58:06] <ve2dmn> it's that time of
the year... the time when I start quoting xkcd #988
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L725[13:02:46] *
UmbralRaptor maintains that Carol of the Bells is pretty much the
only good Christmas song, possibly because it's not like most of
them.
L726[13:05:05] <ve2dmn> I tend to prefer
TSO these days
L727[13:06:03] <Mat2ch> If you're talking
about christmas, I'll start talking about Satan, the dark lord and
slayer
L728[13:06:06] <Mat2ch> :D
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L731[13:08:05] <ve2dmn> pfff, Choose the
greater evil. Vote Cthulhu.
L732[13:08:17] <Fluburtur> I had to change
the antenna of my camera/vtx combo
L734[13:08:39] <Fluburtur> put a stick
antenna so it's stronger and I get better range
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L740[13:28:03] <UmbralRaptor> Mat2ch: A
Very Scary Solstice is good, admittedly.
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L748[13:57:18] <Mat2ch> Sounds fun, but I
still prefer the christmas concert of Children of Bodom ;)
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L752[14:13:24] <sandbox> too soon
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L756[14:28:44] <ConductorCat> :3
L757[14:32:58] *
ve2dmn takes notes for his xmas dinner
L758[14:33:41] <ve2dmn> I have the
fireplace ready, food planned... I just need some cozy xmas-themed
death metal
L760[14:33:50] <kmath> YouTube - Despacito
- JeA with Juwon Park (Offical Video) (Cover)
L761[14:39:34] <ve2dmn> RoboFreak: did I
just watched a Kpop cover of a Puerto Rican song?
L762[14:39:41] <RoboFreak> yes
L763[14:39:43] <RoboFreak> what
L764[14:39:47] <RoboFreak> when did
i
L765[14:39:53] ***
RoboFreak is now known as Althego
L766[14:39:56] <Althego> now it is
better
L767[14:40:18] <Althego> i think it is
better than the original
L768[14:41:59] <Mat2ch> well, I know
someone who makes metal songs out of kpop...
L769[14:43:10] <Althego> it's been a hard
days night (not), and i've been working like a dog (not)... i
should be sleeping like a log. now the last one is true
L770[14:43:43] <ve2dmn> I feel like back
when I worked nightshifts
L771[14:44:31] <ve2dmn> 10h shift, take
the Metro 45min, go to bed. Wake up. Have breakfast, go back to
work.
L772[14:45:02] <Althego> hehe
L773[14:45:05] <ve2dmn> And while at work:
get yell at for stupid things you don't control because you do tech
support
L774[14:45:12] <ve2dmn> It was soul
crushing
L775[14:45:34] <Althego> bückeburg. work
16 hours, go back to hotel, sleep, breakfast, go back before
everybody else, continue...
L776[14:46:12] <ve2dmn> For months?
L777[14:46:22] <Althego> nah, 1-2 weeks
ata time
L778[14:46:43] <ve2dmn> I did the tech
support night shift for 6 months.
L779[14:47:04] <ve2dmn> 10h shift for 2
days, then got 2 days off.
L780[14:47:26] <ve2dmn> Didn't see the sun
for weeks
L781[14:48:58] <Althego> but anyway i feel
now that i am old enough that i shouldnt do stuff like this
anymore. 8 hours should be enough
L782[14:49:06] <ve2dmn> same
L783[14:50:31] <Althego> it seems they
didnt find another idiot to do this, i even got a call that maybe i
could just do 10 hours a week as an external contractor
L784[14:50:35] <Althego> haha no way
L785[14:50:59] <ve2dmn> but today my body
is rejecting staying awake...
L786[14:51:10] <ve2dmn> just because I
drank a lot on saturday night
L787[14:51:15] *
ve2dmn is old :(
L788[14:51:16] <Althego> i couldnt get to
sleep yesterday
L789[14:51:20] <Althego> which is
rare
L790[14:52:07] <SnoopJeDi> alcohol's
capability to interfere with REM is pretty shocking
L791[14:52:37] <ve2dmn> SnoopJeDi: true.
but before I would back on my feet in under 20h
L792[14:52:47] <ve2dmn> it's been over
40h
L793[14:52:51] <Althego> hehe
L794[14:52:52] <ve2dmn> still feel like
crap
L795[14:53:10] <SnoopJeDi> I can't really
accurately assess it anymore because that's my default state
L796[14:53:25] <ve2dmn> feeling
crap?
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L801[15:21:13] <Black_Eagle> well.
L802[15:22:02] <Black_Eagle> how do i load
an autosave?
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L806[15:31:22] <ve2dmn> BlackPhoenix:
Mod-F9
L807[15:31:28] <ve2dmn> (i think)
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L830[18:09:26] <Black_Eagle> oh, thanks
ve2dmn. also helps if you ping the correct nick :P couldn't be
bothered to google that so i let the kraken have this one.
L831[18:11:38] <ve2dmn> sorry
L832[18:11:46] <ve2dmn> did see my
mistake
L833[18:11:53] <ve2dmn> was at work
L834[18:12:43] <ve2dmn> got distracted
:/
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L839[18:57:29] <Scolar_Visari> Sons and
daughters of Kerbin: By popular demand, the Planck Constant will
now be replaced with the Planck Variable!
L840[18:57:49] ⇦
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seconds)
L841[19:03:48] <UmbralRaptor>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
L842[19:04:20] *
Scolar_Visari wriggles their grasping appendages in delight as the
quantum realm unravels into silliness.
L843[19:04:29] <Scolar_Visari> And in
today's stupid news story comment: "The majority of the human
genome, 97%, is classified as "junk" due to hubris.
Because we have not figured a purpose for these genetic sequences
we ignore them.Yet we know Nature is an efficiency system and does
not waste energy on unneeded or extra features."
L844[19:04:57] <Scolar_Visari> Yes,
because the human body itself is absolutely perfect!
L845[19:05:15] ⇦
Quits: Mathuin (~jmt@c-73-96-43-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Remote
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L846[19:06:05] *
Scolar_Visari ponders if the writer is aware that junk DNA is such
because it *doesn't* have genetic sequences.
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L848[19:08:11] <tawny> everybody knows
nature is just one big paperclip optimizer
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L850[19:09:20] <Scolar_Visari> tawny: Now
let us go and ponder the birds of paradise and their many practical
and efficient physical features!
L851[19:09:30] <tawny> haha
L852[19:11:38] <Scolar_Visari> Hubris.
They used that word and I don't think they new what it meant.
L853[19:11:57] <UmbralRaptor> The
important one is that you can tap them for any color of mana.
L854[19:13:21] <Scolar_Visari> O
L855[19:13:36] <Scolar_Visari> I'd tap
that card . . . To summon a flying monster.
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L858[19:22:41] <Scolar_Visari> ve2dmn: You
get a exponential increase in the power of that which is getting
tapped.
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L864[19:35:33] <Scolar_Visari> Gray brings
up a particularly interesting possibility that Tipler's particular
paper on the subject was motivated by the same urge to explain,
"miracles using physics" that made up much of Tipler's
later work.
L865[19:38:44] <Scolar_Visari>
"Extraterrestrial Intelligent Beings do not Exist" being
published in 1980 in the Q. Jl. R. astr and "The Anthropic
Cosmological Principle" being published in 1986 by the Oxford
University Press (!).
L866[19:43:16] <Scolar_Visari> Michael
Hart having been full bozo for a while now . . .
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L877[20:29:20] <Scolar_Visari>
whatisthisidonteven
L878[20:32:59] <Scolar_Visari>
#KSPOfficial really needs an idle game.
L879[20:33:33] <Scolar_Visari> Like
Pokemon, but with rocket-type attacks and only grass-type creatures
forced to fight one another for our common amusement.
L880[20:34:28] <Scolar_Visari> In
retrospect, it's rather cruel that Pokemon battles do not employ
the use of a referee or scoring system other than, "knock the
other Pokemon around 'till they get a concussion and
faint."
L881[20:39:48] *
UmbralRaptor stares at boxing.
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L888[20:57:06] <tawny> there's pokemon
contests
L889[20:57:06] <tawny> in
L890[20:57:09] <tawny> like.... two
games?
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⇨ Joins: Alanonzander
(~J@mobile-166-170-22-206.mycingular.net)
L892[21:01:09] <Scolar_Visari> I was
thinking of ref for proper battles. You know, so they'll like stop
Hitmonchans from beating a normal type to death.
L893[21:01:23] <UmbralRaptor> Anyway,
given my limited hardware options, it's best to pretend that only
Pokémon Go exists.
L894[21:02:15] <Scolar_Visari>
"Alright you two. I want a good clean fight. No potions, no
rare candies, no performance enhancing steroids, and absolutely no
blows to the Pokeball!"
L895[21:02:31] <Scolar_Visari>
UmbralRaptor: Or just whip out your original copy of Red and/or
Blue?
L896[21:02:54] <Scolar_Visari> You know,
back when psychic-type Pokemon were effectively gods.
L897[21:02:57] <UmbralRaptor> Why do you
assume I have a GBA?
L898[21:03:15] <Scolar_Visari> My Psychic
Beacon tells me many things.
L899[21:03:38] <UmbralRaptor> (Just
pretend I grew up in a second world country. >_>)
L900[21:04:10] <JCB> huh... sleeping on
the moon... though do kerbals even sleep I wonder?
L901[21:04:37] <JCB> just come across one
of Vintage space's videos... something I'd wondered a little about
staying on another world.. or moon.
L902[21:04:43] <Scolar_Visari>
UmbralRaptor: Psht. Tony Stark built a Gameboy Color in a cave. Out
of scrap!
L903[21:04:57] <Scolar_Visari> JCB:
Sleeping in the original LM must've been problematic.
L904[21:05:02] <JCB> it was
L905[21:05:07] <JCB> lots of noise
L906[21:05:25] <Scolar_Visari> Space
things in general have a surprising amount of noise. If they
didn't, that's because life support has failed and you're about to
die.
L907[21:05:47] <UmbralRaptor> JCB: Kerbals
are cursed with unceasing awareness. Depending on difficulty
settings, even death may be only the briefest moment of
unconsciousness.
L908[21:06:01] <Scolar_Visari> Though
thermal expansion and contraction of the hull through normal orbits
creates a rather disturbing noise in and of itself.
L909[21:06:07] <JCB> lander was pretty
noisy... then again so was the first spacestation part that was
slept in.. they had to add mufflers to the air ducts
L910[21:06:26] <Scolar_Visari> The trait's
common to all space stations, as they have things running all the
time.
L911[21:06:45] <UmbralRaptor>
Scolar_Visari: I can only imagine what all the pings and pops would
be like.
L912[21:07:09] <JCB> sleeping in hamocks
in 1/6th gravity must have been.. interesting
L913[21:07:30] <Scolar_Visari>
UmbralRaptor: I recall a few passages from A House In Space
relating to how difficult it was to adjust to.
L914[21:07:55] *
Scolar_Visari can imagine Skylab's interior environment being quite
noisy before Skylab 2's repairs.
L915[21:08:46] <JCB> think I read more
about the heat than noise prior to the repairs
L916[21:08:46] <Scolar_Visari> One primary
photovoltaic array missing. One primary photovoltaic array failing
to deploy. Solar shade completely missing. Gyros failing. Situation
good.
L917[21:09:42] <JCB> getting the array
opened, deploying the replacement shields did end up as a good
thing. Proved that people could actually do full on work in
space
L918[21:09:45] <UmbralRaptor> Which would
make a better movie, Skylab 2 or Союз T-13?
L919[21:10:16] <Scolar_Visari> Skylab 4
and the Space Mutiny, of course.
L920[21:10:36] <Scolar_Visari> Though I
think Skylab 2 involved more EVAs than Salyut 7, and it'd be an
easier environ for filming.
L921[21:11:08] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: All
the more interesting considering NASA's lack of experience with
EVAs, part of the reason Skylab ended up not being a wet workshop
as was originally intended.
L922[21:11:21] *
Scolar_Visari still has doubts whether the wet workshop model
would've ever been feasible, however.
L923[21:11:32] <JCB> can't say I'm too
familiar with TM-13
L924[21:11:42] <JCB> or.. T-13.. or
whatever.. c_c;
L925[21:11:43] <Scolar_Visari> The repair
of Salyut 7 after it went power down and completely dead.
L926[21:12:02] <UmbralRaptor> *T-13. TM-13
was a Мир mission.
L927[21:12:06] <JCB> 'wet' in what
sense?
L928[21:12:15] <Scolar_Visari>
UmbralRaptor: That would make for a boring movie!
L929[21:12:19] <Scolar_Visari> I want
space repairs!
L930[21:12:38] <UmbralRaptor> wet as in
modifying fuel tanks that previously held fuel.
L931[21:12:42] <JCB> just a skylab movie
period....
L932[21:12:52] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: It was
originally meant to be launched as a filled upper stage on a Saturn
IB.
L933[21:13:37] <JCB> ah ok... I always saw
it as a completed part... never wet or dry.. I was wondering 'what
is a wet station in orbit even..?'
L934[21:13:38] <Scolar_Visari> The plan as
envisioned by von Braun was originally to install just a few
components (particularly the airlock) on a normal stage and have it
refurbished as part of a later EVA.
L935[21:14:11] <JCB> I recall there had
been talks about using shuttle's ET as a sort of resouce for
station parts.
L936[21:14:15] <Scolar_Visari> The problem
is that, even with its excess payload capacity, the Saturn IC and
Apollo CSM combination was probably not up to the task.
L937[21:14:38] <UmbralRaptor>
Scolar_Visari: I still want a TV series that includes T-13, T-15,
STS-63, and Прогресс M34.
L938[21:14:59] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: Those
were always problematic because of the poor ballistic coefficient
of the Shuttle's and the need for lots of EVAs to refurbish
them.
L939[21:15:09] <Scolar_Visari> Shuttle's
main tank even.
L940[21:15:43] <Scolar_Visari>
UmbralRaptor: Only if we get a docu-drama of the life of Sergei
Korolev first, starting with him watching V-2 rocket tests from a
guarded, off-site position.
L941[21:16:03] <Scolar_Visari> With
obligatory flashbacks to his arrest and time spent in a
Gulag.
L942[21:16:16] <JCB> they just wanted to
get it to orbit.. though, there was also plans to add an extra
cargo pod to the back of the ET, but there was technical problems
involved. Mostly regarding heat and vibrations
L943[21:16:58] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: You
had to reduce payload capacity to get it into orbit and, as I
mentioned, the poor ballistic coefficient means it'd deorbit
reasonably quick. You'd need some means of adjusting its
orbit.
L944[21:17:50] <Scolar_Visari> Though
*some* STS concepts had the Orbiter forgoing major payloads and
putting bulky ones on top of the main propellant tank!
L945[21:18:07] <JCB> well obviously, now
the tank just drops to the ocean. If they were wanting to use it in
orbit, they'd have found a way to get it up there.
L946[21:19:13] <Scolar_Visari> There
already was a way to get it up, there just wasn't any sufficient
reason worth the expense.
L947[21:20:36] <Scolar_Visari> Reduce
Orbiter payload and keep burning till both the Orbiter and main
propellant tank are in orbit, then release.
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L951[21:25:12] <JCB> hmm... size of 3.. 4
skylabs in one. :P
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L953[21:26:14] <JCB> wonder how much the
mass of air would be for something of that volume
L954[21:26:31] <Scolar_Visari> Probably
not much.
L955[21:27:06] <Scolar_Visari> The real
issue is that the reason for a wet workshop Skylab disappeared when
the last couple of Apollo missions were canceled, allowing a fully
furnished station to be fitted on a Saturn V.
L956[21:27:45] <JCB> btw... what was that
about t-13?
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L959[21:28:02] <Scolar_Visari> If you were
going to use Shuttle derived launch vehicle without an orbiter (the
SLS in a nutshell), there's little point in launching the
propellant tank and reusing that when you can do a Skylab.
L960[21:28:14] <tawny> ooo, nice
L961[21:28:19] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: I've
brought that movie up here before, but it's taken, ah . . .
"Creative license" with reality.
L962[21:28:46] <Scolar_Visari> The docking
with Salyut 7 in the movie, for instance, depicts the station as
spiraliing in an uncontrolled tumble.
L963[21:28:48] <tawny> oh aww
L964[21:29:08] <Scolar_Visari> In reality,
Salyut 7 maintained a consistent orientation towards Earth courtesy
of gravity.
L965[21:29:40] <JCB> ya well.. lets not
forget 'Gravity'... creative license huh?
L966[21:30:30] <Scolar_Visari> The reviews
I've read compare it favorably (or disfavorably, rather) with
Gravity.
L967[21:30:38] <JCB> coutesy of
gravity.... satillites use that very thing.. gravity
gradient..
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L969[21:31:31] <Scolar_Visari> It's a
rather useful effect once you get a big enough space station,
though you still want to orient into different directions for
different types of observations.
L970[21:32:01] <JCB> depending on how low
in orbit you are.. you'll wanna present as little cross section as
possible to the flight path
L971[21:32:06] *
Scolar_Visari notes Skylab's Solar telescope and Earth observation
gear could not be used at the same time.
L972[21:33:31] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: Yes
and no. You want to be able to orient to ensure even heating and
cooling. Salyut stations had rather limited orientation available
for their Solar panels, and Skylab had to be put in a clever tumble
until Skylab 2's repairs.
L973[21:35:38] <JCB> iss has a few
different mods of operation/orientations... though in most cases,
they fly it with the 'belly' facing down towards Earth
L974[21:35:59] <Scolar_Visari> Yeah, none
of the Salyut stations had motorized radiatior panels,
either.
L975[21:36:18] <JCB> actually, its not so
much the cross section fo the station itself, rather the solar
panels that produces tiny bits of drag..
L977[21:38:18] <JCB> was reading up on the
orbits for skylab and iss... they somewhat similar.. though skylab
was about 30 or so km highter
L978[21:39:31] <JCB> which is
spektr?
L979[21:40:40] <Scolar_Visari> Top most
one
L980[21:42:14] <Scolar_Visari> ISS' orbit
is slightly more inclined to better benefit Soyuz' limited
capabilities.
L981[21:42:34] <Scolar_Visari> When it was
Space Station Freedom, it was intended to be it on a less inclined
orbit.
L982[21:42:54] <Scolar_Visari> 28.5
degrees, in fact!
L983[21:43:53] <JCB> according to wiki
says its 51 now
L984[21:45:30] <Scolar_Visari> Skylab was
about 50, which was okay particularly since it was intended to
perform Earth observation work when the Solar observatory was not
in use.
L985[21:48:03] <JCB> ah.. kennedy space
center was 28deg north.. heh
L986[21:48:43] <Scolar_Visari> Prior to
the change in inclination, it was hoped that Freedom could be used
as a hanger or to assemble cislunar missions.
L987[21:48:49] <JCB> a little sad skylab
came down, though, things would have been completely different if
it was still around
L988[21:49:08] <Scolar_Visari> It was
always intended to come down. It was also intended for Skylab II to
be launched.
L989[21:49:33] <JCB> they wanted ot try
and save it.. use the shuttle and a booster.. but delays in
things
L990[21:49:50] <JCB> there'd been so many
different ideas, some pretty wild, when it came to what the new
station was going to be
L991[21:50:00] <Scolar_Visari> NASA wanted
Skylab II, Congress and the American public only wanted to
"save" Skylab when it was already close to
deorbiting.
L992[21:50:30] <JCB> ya well.. neither
really mattered when funding cuts went through
L993[21:50:38] <JCB> same coudl be said
for a lot of ideas they had at NASA
L994[21:50:43] <Scolar_Visari> An
additional mission could've been mounted, but refurbishment and
resupply was simply out of the question even had the STS been ready
in time. Skylab wasn't built for such a thing.
L995[21:51:36] <Scolar_Visari> What's
really funny is Skylab only launched because budget cuts allowed
NASA to mount it on a free Saturn V!
L996[21:52:26] <UmbralRaptor> Did NASA get
more use out of Skylab, or Мир?
L997[21:53:17] <JCB> lol... astronauts
back in teh time had hard time sleeping, cause: too excited
L998[21:54:02] <Scolar_Visari>
UmbralRaptor: Research on Mir wasn't especially well coordinated
given the state of the Union and later Russian Federation, hence
why the recent year long mission was so important.
L999[21:54:23] <Scolar_Visari> Also: They
couldn't communicate with Mir all the time as is the case with
ISS.
L1000[21:55:00] *
Scolar_Visari recalls a few failed attempts to save Mir by offering
more of its facilities to commercial research interests than had
been the case.
L1001[21:56:24] <JCB> mm.. shuttle at
mir... apollo an soyuz....
L1002[21:56:25] <Scolar_Visari> I think
Skylab was in communication with Mission Control *most* of the
time.
L1003[21:57:15] <Scolar_Visari> In its
case, NASA would send up written orders in, "bursts"
whenever possible when they weren't simply radioing up commands by
voice. Too much of both caused the Space Mutiny.
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L1005[21:57:44] <JCB> ah ya.. the
'mutiny'...
L1006[21:57:59] <JCB> control was making
them work too much.. not enough free time
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L1008[21:58:11] <Scolar_Visari> Not to be
confused with that *other* Space Mutiny with the stock Battlestar
Galactica footage.
L1009[21:58:35] <JCB> ... mm ok?
L1010[21:59:03] <Scolar_Visari> Space
Mutiny was a cheesy, low budget science fiction film. Also notable
for having a female love interest old enough to be the lead actor's
mother.
L1011[21:59:15] <UmbralRaptor> That's the
one where a character dies, then goes back to work, right?
L1012[21:59:36] *
Scolar_Visari casts a wary eye on James Bond films where Connery
and Moore were old enough to be the Bond girls'
GRANDfathers.
L1013[21:59:55] <Scolar_Visari>
UmbralRaptor: I think so. It's been a while since I've watched it,
and I've found the older MST3Ks to be unwatchable.
L1014[22:00:12] <JCB> oh.. lol.. it made
it into MST3K
L1015[22:00:13] <Scolar_Visari> I'll
stick with new, HD friendly Netflix MST3k thankyouverymuch.
L1016[22:00:49] <Scolar_Visari> As much
as the old show is loved, most of the movies ARE too awful to watch
even with riffing.
L1017[22:01:09] <Scolar_Visari> I could,
however, actually sit down and enjoy most of the movies from the
new series.
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L1019[22:02:32] <Scolar_Visari> Except
the Rock Hudson one and the Bigfoot ones.
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L1021[22:05:02] <Scolar_Visari> Still no
word from missing Argentine submarine.
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L1030[22:31:39] <JCB> I've a friend in
Argentina, actually pretty close to where the base of operations
that is looking for said sub
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