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L9[05:29:45] <Forec​aster> %tonkout
L10[05:29:47] <MichiBot> Boom! Forec​aster! You beat Va​ur's previous record of 5 hours, 28 minutes and 8 seconds (By 3 hours, 37 minutes and 38 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L11[05:29:48] <MichiBot> Forec​aster has stolen the tonkout! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.009 tonk points! plus 0.008 bonus points for consecutive hours! (Reduced to 50% because stealing) Current score: 2.72526818. Position #2 Need 0.0080789 more points to pass Spider ​EveryOS!
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L15[09:51:26] <Spider ​EveryOS> %tonk
L16[09:51:26] <MichiBot> Fopdoodle! Spider ​EveryOS! You beat Forec​aster's previous record of <0 (By 4 hours, 21 minutes and 40 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L17[09:51:27] <MichiBot> Spider EveryOS's new record is 4 hours, 21 minutes and 40 seconds! Spider EveryOS also gained 0.00436 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #1.
L18[09:53:57] <Forec​aster> well, soda dispenser project has pivoted
L19[09:54:07] <Forec​aster> I'm now going to try using glass bottles as the container
L20[09:54:30] <Forec​aster> so the new challenge is finding a tube fitting I can mount on them
L21[10:50:30] <Corded> > <Haw​k777> *Contain*? They *create* lead! Gotta be even more regulatio…
L22[10:50:30] <ff​_66> alchemists should look into the sky if thay want to see how to make gold
L23[11:18:41] * Amanda meows and looks around
L24[11:23:24] <Forec​aster> Oh neat
L25[11:23:43] <Forec​aster> I just got an email from a store telling me that my order is on the way
L26[11:24:00] <Forec​aster> The order I already received last week
L27[11:24:13] <Forec​aster> Maybe they're sending me a second one...
L28[11:38:21] <MichiBot> Amanda REMINDER: replace kitchen battery
L29[11:42:59] <Amanda> Wow, great timing, I just went into the litter tray
L30[12:00:41] <alek​cwins> does anyone see http client in OC lua?
L31[12:00:49] <alek​cwins> * server in OC lua?
L32[12:02:42] <Amanda> .... There's no http server either
L33[12:03:16] <Amanda> Unless you mean using the modem and not real Internet
L34[12:05:23] <Amanda> Like I said yesterday, there's zero way to do a direct oc-to-oc connection between servers, by design, for security
L35[12:26:08] <Amanda> A server is more than a client that "connects" on 0.0.0.0
L36[12:26:24] <Amanda> IT's a totally different API surface in the networking stack
L37[12:26:44] <Amanda> Which OC doesn't implement anywhere, for the reasons fingercomp mentioned yesterday
L38[12:27:52] <alek​cwins> i add this message too on this topic https://ocdoc.cil.li/component:modem
L39[12:27:53] <alek​cwins>
L40[12:27:53] <alek​cwins> is it okay, or this behavior different? https://discordembeds.pc-logix.com/live/1727180872501.png
L41[12:28:28] <Amanda> The modem is totally different from the networking stack on your IRL computer
L42[12:28:38] <Amanda> it's a fictional method that only works inside OC
L43[12:31:27] <alek​cwins> and i have one question broadcast send ONLY all computers ? can i choice which computers receive my message?
L44[12:31:27] <alek​cwins>
L45[12:31:27] <alek​cwins> is it only way as filter about client side or other way?
L46[12:32:30] <Amanda> broacast sends to all computers connected to the same network, if they have the same port opened, otherwise it'll get discarded
L47[12:32:32] <Forec​aster> that's what `send` is for...
L48[12:32:56] <Amanda> send sends to a single computer on the same network, as given by it's first argument, if it has the port open
L49[12:33:12] <Forec​aster> sends to a single network card*
L50[12:33:19] <Amanda> ah right
L51[12:34:13] <Corded> > <Ama​nda> The modem is totally different from the networking stack on…
L52[12:34:14] <alek​cwins> Okay mb i change on top about modem doc? and say aboit two thinds:
L53[12:34:14] <alek​cwins> 1. The modem is totally different from the networking stack on your IRL computer
L54[12:34:14] <alek​cwins> 2. becouse we have 1 part - listening to global ports is not supported for external connections
L55[12:35:20] <Forec​aster> also rather than adding a note to `open` that speaks about "global ports" which could be confusing I'd mention in the paragraph at the top that the modem component only deals with in-game networks
L56[12:35:29] <Amanda> ^
L57[12:36:00] <alek​cwins> * computer (only deals with in-game networks)
L58[12:36:00] <Corded> 2. becouse we have 1 part - listening to global ports is not supported for external connections
L59[12:36:19] <Corded> > <alek​cwins> Okay mb i change on top about modem doc? and say aboit two …
L60[12:36:20] <alek​cwins> This message is okay on top modem component ?
L61[12:36:38] <Corded> > <Forec​aster> also rather than adding a note to `open` that speaks about …
L62[12:36:39] <alek​cwins> yep, i think too about it
L63[12:44:17] <alek​cwins> mb this? https://discordembeds.pc-logix.com/live/1727181857104.png
L64[12:45:36] <Amanda> I think the second half is unnessary, as it's implied from the first half
L65[12:49:05] <alek​cwins> I think it's better to give a more precise description of what it doesn't work with global ports.
L66[12:49:05] <alek​cwins> becouse when i found and look docs i firstly look for information about how this work with global networks
L67[12:57:18] <alek​cwins> https://paste.pc-logix.com/uxetalugor
L68[13:00:30] <alek​cwins> * but real size message only 10 how handle it ?
L69[13:00:30] <Corded> and second if client send data and after that broke connect when 50% data was sent - how handle this
L70[13:04:16] <Corded> > <alek​cwins> and i have one more question about tcp protocol,
L71[13:04:17] <Corded> i try dev…
L72[13:04:17] <ff​_66> 1. It's the neat part. You don't.
L73[13:04:17] <ff​_66> 2. You mean a computer turns off while a message is transmitted ? Is it even possible ? Like, on Internet, yes, but I'm not sure that OC modems are handled that much realistically...
L74[13:06:37] <alek​cwins> https://paste.pc-logix.com/anokesagus
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L78[13:50:06] <Kristo​pher38> 1. You have to verify that you'll not exceed the boundaries of your buffers and check the real size of the transmitted message - usually you'll probably hang on the server waiting for the 990 missing bytes anyway
L79[13:52:55] <Kristo​pher38> 2. Again, the server will probably be waiting on the missing 50%. You probably want some sort of ping/pong messaging in your protocol to periodically check that your connection is still alive
L80[14:08:20] ⇨ Joins: Izzy (~izzy@210.1.218.92)
L81[14:15:08] <alek​cwins> does see anyone OC addon which add extension or module for drone which work with real world coordinates?
L82[14:16:11] <alek​cwins> * or turtle which work with real world coordinates?
L83[14:17:52] <Amanda> I assume you mean real in-game coordinates? And not that I've heard od
L84[14:17:54] <Amanda> * of
L85[14:20:41] <alek​cwins> i hate component:navigation and i need real coord for my ideas, and i think write this through addons OC
L86[14:28:54] <Redston​eParkour> You can get the location on startup and then keep track of how far you've moved to extrapolate your position from there
L87[15:24:53] <Va​ur> %tonk
L88[15:24:54] <MichiBot> Uh-oh! Va​ur! You beat Spider ​EveryOS's previous record of 4 hours, 21 minutes and 40 seconds (By 1 hour, 11 minutes and 47 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L89[15:24:55] <MichiBot> Vaur's new record is 5 hours, 33 minutes and 27 seconds! Vaur also gained 0.006 (0.0012 x 5) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #3. Need 0.07684407 more points to pass Forec​aster!
L90[15:40:15] <Corded> > <alek​cwins> Okay mb i change on top about modem doc? and say aboit two …
L91[15:40:16] <S​3> You CAN technically do hole punching...
L92[15:40:19] <S​3> 🙂
L93[15:40:51] <Amanda> @S3 don't give them bad ideas, you can't use the internet card to listen in OC1
L94[15:40:57] <Amanda> That's what they meant
L95[15:41:00] <S​3> lolol
L96[15:41:07] <S​3> fair
L97[15:41:38] <Amanda> "global port" seems to be some translation from their primary language for a port on a real computer
L98[15:45:09] <ff​_66> When i first read "primary", i saw "primitive" 💀
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L100[16:16:18] <Amanda> I could say something really mean to that, but instead I'm making hashbrowns
L101[16:16:24] * Amanda pads over to the kitchen, stares at the oven
L102[17:12:18] <ff​_66> huuuhhh am I breaking the law ? https://discordembeds.pc-logix.com/live/1727197937616.png
L103[17:20:02] <Amanda> No, because it's a video game, not real life
L104[17:37:43] <ff​_66> that game has functional police systems & speed traps
L105[17:44:24] <Amanda> I'm guessing it has neither in the infinite featureless void
L106[17:51:25] * Amanda offers Elfi some hats she deifntaly didn't appropiate from the winter coart
L107[17:51:39] <Amanda> court*
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L109[18:06:25] <Corded> > <ff​_66> that game has functional police systems & speed traps
L110[18:06:26] <Ocawes​ome101> No laws though, except the laws of physics and computer code
L111[18:08:17] <ff​_66> it has speed limits that get enforced and also you get a big fine when you cross certain red lights, like irl
L112[18:14:32] <Forec​aster> %sip
L113[18:14:33] <MichiBot> You drink a sedimented pear potion (New!). Tonk moved back 4 hours. (Rem. uses: 0)
L114[18:14:43] <Forec​aster> %tonkout
L115[18:14:43] <MichiBot> Darn! Forec​aster! You beat Va​ur's previous record of 5 hours, 33 minutes and 27 seconds (By 1 hour, 16 minutes and 23 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L116[18:14:44] <MichiBot> Forec​aster has stolen the tonkout! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.006 tonk points! plus 0.005 bonus points for consecutive hours! (Reduced to 50% because stealing) Current score: 2.73876818. Position #2 => #1 (Overtook Spider EveryOS)
L117[18:14:48] <Forec​aster> Perfect
L118[18:20:38] <ninte​ndo DS> https://discordembeds.pc-logix.com/live/1727202037684.png
L119[18:22:01] <Ocawes​ome101> Probably makes more sense to adaptively show RAM in MB or KB
L120[18:22:04] <ff​_66> is it possible to make a multi-processor system using the modem API ? i always wondered if that was worth it in OC 1
L121[18:22:08] <Ocawes​ome101> Looks neat though
L122[18:22:20] <ninte​ndo DS> thanks
L123[18:22:39] <Ocawes​ome101> ff_66, ask @S3 about Trotwood
L124[18:22:56] <S​3> Nuuuuu
L125[18:23:03] <S​3> Ok I'll bite
L126[18:23:14] <S​3> Yes, it is very possible
L127[18:23:26] <ff​_66> but is it really worth it ?
L128[18:23:38] <S​3> Not if you want performance.
L129[18:23:54] <ff​_66> because scheduling the tasks uses a lot of time, isn't it ?
L130[18:24:02] <S​3> Reasons why I wanted multiprocessor:
L131[18:24:03] <S​3> - More disk space
L132[18:24:03] <S​3> - More components
L133[18:24:07] <S​3> I forget what else
L134[18:24:15] <S​3> - Fun
L135[18:24:34] <S​3> So for example, every CPU on OC1 has a limit of the max # of components you can have.
L136[18:24:41] <S​3> Oh yeah the other reason I did it
L137[18:24:53] <ff​_66> 16 for tier 3, 12 on tier 2 and 8 on tier 1
L138[18:24:58] <S​3> - Geographically diverse connectivity points of processes
L139[18:25:07] <S​3> which included having components "distant"
L140[18:25:11] <S​3> For example:
L141[18:25:22] <Corded> > <Z0id​burg> which included having components "distant"
L142[18:25:22] <ff​_66> a VPN ?
L143[18:25:28] <S​3> Imagine a railroad system with a lot of paths and a complex schedule of train arrivals and departures
L144[18:26:04] <S​3> What if you just had a computer in every single "area" and then maybe some micocontrollers to handle some of the crictical stuff right, but you wanted all of the computer cases to act as one supercomputer for the whole railway system
L145[18:26:23] <S​3> Hopefully you can see the benefit of that over writing software with multiple computers in mind
L146[18:26:33] <S​3> Now, you are wirting software that gets spread over multiple computers for you
L147[18:26:40] <S​3> and you don't have to worry about the networking part
L148[18:26:53] <S​3> The entire railway becomes one computer, distributed across the map
L149[18:27:42] <S​3> So, the benefits of having multi processor setups probably weren't what you might have inmagined now are they ? 🙂
L150[18:27:55] <S​3> Like I said, if you want speed, it's not going to help you
L151[18:28:29] <S​3> I accomplished this idea by basically reinventing the actor model from Erlang OTP
L152[18:28:35] <Corded> > <Z0id​burg> So, the benefits of having multi processor setups probably …
L153[18:28:35] <ff​_66> maybe do something similar to crypto mines with a lot of processors AND a lot of GPUs so you get a huge high res screen ?
L154[18:28:41] <S​3> and sticking it into the OS scheduler
L155[18:29:50] <S​3> Again, if you're trying to achieve more performance by adding additional hardware, you are not using the right method to solve that problem.
L156[18:30:39] <Forec​aster> No hardware = infinite performance!
L157[18:30:58] <Corded> > <Forec​aster> No hardware = infinite performance!
L158[18:30:58] <ff​_66> you just divided by 0
L159[18:31:12] <S​3> Multprocessing significantly increases latency and has a whole world of other problems. If,, lets say in the real world you squeezed every little last bit of performance out of a single system, THEN, multiprocessing may be an option for a next step for scalability, but it doesn't always increase performance linearly either.
L160[18:31:33] <S​3> In OC, having two computers running at the same time is more likely going to decrease your experience
L161[18:31:53] <S​3> Because now your game is ... running two computers instead of one.
L162[18:32:03] <S​3> So if you want multi processing, do it for scalability
L163[18:32:07] <S​3> Not speed
L164[18:32:45] <S​3> My project, Trotwood did just this. I just got bored of Minecraft
L165[18:33:04] <S​3> It is a scheduler with an actor model library built on top
L166[18:33:08] <S​3> and resource manager for components
L167[18:33:14] <S​3> Basically just another operating system
L168[18:33:36] <S​3> The scheduler was capable of having PIDs that were "remote" on another computer
L169[18:33:50] <S​3> it would use the modem to handle message passing / IPC for that
L170[18:34:41] <S​3> and while one computer's scheduler didn't effect another, processes only ran when they had something to do, so what would happen is that you would try to sned a message to a process that wasn't local, the local scheduler wouldn't take it, so it went to the actor router
L171[18:34:48] <S​3> and that would send a message over the network instead of locally
L172[18:34:55] <S​3> and that scheduler would pick it up
L173[18:38:40] <ninte​ndo DS> finally figured to do real multitasking on my OS https://discordembeds.pc-logix.com/live/1727203120474.png
L174[18:38:43] <ninte​ndo DS> what do you guys think
L175[18:39:47] <Ocawes​ome101> Oh, multi-screen multitasking even. Neat
L176[18:40:58] <ff​_66> that's approximately what i wanted, except i wanted to weld the two screen for a higher res display
L177[18:41:25] <Ocawes​ome101> For what purpose? Most of what OC does is text
L178[18:46:00] <ninte​ndo DS> https://discordembeds.pc-logix.com/live/1727203559920.png
L179[18:49:37] <ninte​ndo DS> https://discordembeds.pc-logix.com/live/1727203776673.png
L180[18:53:49] <Corded> > <Ocawes​ome101> For what purpose? Most of what OC does is text
L181[18:53:49] <ff​_66> to use pixels and not *a lot* of unicode characters like in your utah teapot rendering
L182[18:54:19] <Ocawes​ome101> Braille characters are a pretty good option though
L183[18:57:14] <ff​_66> you only have 2 colors on a same character, not 6
L184[19:01:13] <Corded> > <Forec​aster> No hardware = infinite performance!
L185[19:01:13] <Li​ly> Does infinite hardware mean no performance?
L186[19:02:03] <Amanda> yes
L187[19:05:45] <Corded> > <Lilyfl​owerFDL> Does infinite hardware mean no performance?
L188[19:05:45] <as​ie> have you seen LLMs?
L189[19:05:53] <ninte​ndo DS> if you guys wanna try my os here it is https://pastebin.com/uPnwJgfx
L190[19:06:07] <ninte​ndo DS> i learned from my mistake about the ram situation
L191[19:06:25] <Corded> > <as​ie> have you seen LLMs?
L192[19:06:25] <Li​ly> aren't they constructing entire reactors for those things now?
L193[19:07:10] <Li​ly> it's the new money pit
L194[19:07:21] <Li​ly> now with long-term physical consequences!
L195[19:07:28] <Amanda> Someone I know elsenet calls AI/LLMs "The next abestos"
L196[19:07:48] <Li​ly> I mean... Are they /wrong/, really?
L197[19:07:50] <Amanda> "Seems like a great idea to throw into everything, but we'll spend years and years phasing it out"
L198[19:08:13] <Corded> > <Ama​nda> "Seems like a great idea to throw into everything, but we'l…
L199[19:08:14] <Li​ly> "And I'm sure it will have no negative effects whatsoever"
L200[19:08:41] <Li​ly> where have I heard that bef- oh right, asbestos and leaded gasoline
L201[19:08:58] <Li​ly> and also freon
L202[19:09:49] <Li​ly> ...oh no
L203[19:10:22] <Li​ly> it's the 20s all over again!
L204[19:12:52] <nadja> By that logic the next thing will be a really big market crash and by god are you not ready for that.
L205[19:12:57] <Va​ur> %sip
L206[19:12:57] <MichiBot> You drink a shimmering spice potion (New!). Vaur turns into a turtle until they stop thinking about it.
L207[19:14:02] <Corded> > <na​dja> By that logic the next thing will be a really big market cr…
L208[19:14:02] <Li​ly> I mean... Is that really a far-fetched statement?
L209[19:14:29] <Li​ly> What happens when the AI bubble bursts?
L210[19:15:35] <nadja> @Lily: Not much, hopefully. A few bad companies go bust, but generally we all keep going on.
L211[19:16:02] <Corded> > <na​dja> @Lily: Not much, hopefully. A few bad companies go bust, bu…
L212[19:16:03] <Li​ly> what about nvidia, though
L213[19:16:05] <Va​ur> same thing that happened with the dotcom bubble, lots of companies that built themselves around it go under
L214[19:16:19] <Li​ly> they're a huge part of the AI craze, aren't they?
L215[19:16:31] <nadja> @Lily you're worried about Nvidia when Intel is /right there/? :P
L216[19:16:33] <Amanda> She already covered them. "A few bad compaines"
L217[19:16:39] * Amanda flees
L218[19:16:40] <nadja> NVidia will be fine, but yes what Amanda said.
L219[19:16:54] <Corded> > <Ama​nda> She already covered them. "A few bad compaines"
L220[19:16:54] <Li​ly> Not wrong!
L221[19:17:07] <Corded> > <na​dja> @Lily you're worried about Nvidia when Intel is /right ther…
L222[19:17:07] <Li​ly> Also yes, I was about to mention Intel
L223[19:17:13] <Va​ur> nvidia isn't built around AI but around designing and producing hardware
L224[19:17:23] <Va​ur> people will still need computer parts even after AI
L225[19:17:27] <Li​ly> But Intel's more a result of dimwitted execs
L226[19:17:51] <nadja> Lily: And Nvidia jumping on the AI bandwagon is not?
L227[19:18:11] <Corded> > <na​dja> Lily: And Nvidia jumping on the AI bandwagon is not?
L228[19:18:11] <Li​ly> I didn't say it wasn't :P
L229[19:18:13] <Va​ur> can nvidia go under because they put all their eggs in the AI basket ? yes absolutly
L230[19:18:24] <Va​ur> but they need to mess up on a massive scale
L231[19:19:20] <Li​ly> At least it's not like the crypto bubble; you can still *buy* an Nvidia card even if doing so is a silly choice
L232[19:21:42] <Va​ur> covid bubble was really bad
L233[19:43:18] <Forec​aster> Yeah, I regret investing in that
L234[20:08:58] <nadja> @Forecaster: I *knew* you were to blame for that too!
L235[20:26:51] <Forec​aster> %sip
L236[20:26:51] <MichiBot> You drink a searing aqua potion (New!). Forecaster's bones turn honey until they steal a shoe.
L237[20:27:03] <Forec​aster> Oh dear
L238[20:28:49] <alek​cwins> https://paste.pc-logix.com/ekiwuyukoz
L239[20:32:58] <Amanda> We've been over this
L240[20:33:00] <Amanda> No
L241[20:33:07] <Amanda> It's opening a client handle
L242[20:33:33] <Amanda> Oc only allows client handles, for tcp and http
L243[20:35:31] <alek​cwins> i think we discuss only global ports, but real it only work for "CLIENTS mode"?
L244[20:35:46] <Amanda> Yes really
L245[20:36:19] <Amanda> You can't host a server for the real Internet from inside OC
L246[20:36:58] <alek​cwins> no if i want two oc computers and write cleint and write server inside oc?
L247[20:37:31] <Amanda> You use the modem component for that, not the Internet API/component
L248[20:38:03] <Kristo​pher38> if you want to connect two oc computers through internet you need an outside proxy, you could connect them purely in-game though
L249[20:38:32] <Amanda> The Internet API/component is for connecting as a client to non-mc tcp or http/s servers
L250[20:38:41] <Corded> > <Kristo​pher38> if you want to connect two oc computers through internet yo…
L251[20:38:42] <alek​cwins> but only modem api and message_pull event?
L252[20:39:29] <Kristo​pher38> yes
L253[20:39:41] <Kristo​pher38> or rather `modem_message` iirc
L254[20:40:46] <alek​cwins> my idea was write prototype client and server in lua with tcp, after that rewrite server in other lang, but if this behavior so strange
L255[20:41:05] <alek​cwins> why we cant emulate tcp servers inside minecraft?
L256[20:41:34] <fingercomp> you can? but you have to use the modems and the API they provide
L257[20:42:00] <Amanda> The modem is intentionally non-realistic to be easier on less-technical people
L258[20:46:17] <Kristo​pher38> i hereby summon @AR2000 who's written a whole tcp stack in OC
L259[20:46:32] <Va​ur> %sip
L260[20:46:32] <MichiBot> You drink a hot stainless steel potion (New!). It tastes bitter.
L261[20:46:44] <Corded> > <Kristo​pher38> i hereby summon @AR2000 who's written a whole tcp stack in …
L262[20:46:44] <AR2​000> I answer the summon
L263[20:46:57] <Va​ur> %tonk
L264[20:46:57] <MichiBot> Bejabbers! Va​ur! You beat Forec​aster's previous record of <0 (By 2 hours, 32 minutes and 13 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L265[20:46:58] <MichiBot> Vaur's new record is 2 hours, 32 minutes and 13 seconds! Vaur also gained 0.00254 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #3. Need 0.08674296 more points to pass Spider ​EveryOS!
L266[20:47:05] <Kristo​pher38> you are hereby summoned.
L267[20:47:52] <AR2​000> And I bring forth a link to the stack https://github.com/AR2000AR/openComputers_codes/tree/master/network
L268[20:49:02] <AR2​000> tcp and udp work
L269[20:49:11] <AR2​000> icmp is not finished (only echo work)
L270[20:49:19] <Kristo​pher38> for real: @alekcwins why are you so dead set on doing this with tcp, modem API is somewhat similar and you can have ingame server that talk with client with this API
L271[20:49:29] <Kristo​pher38> * servers that talk with client with this API
L272[20:49:31] <alek​cwins> https://paste.pc-logix.com/pezuyifeto
L273[20:49:47] <AR2​000> modem api is basically UDP
L274[20:50:19] <AR2​000> internet is client only because you can't open tcp port in listen mode from the server (secrity reasons probably)
L275[20:50:23] <alek​cwins> * networks**. Modem api is basically UDP
L276[20:50:24] <Corded> *The Internet api* supports connection **only client mode** and only the client who is on the** global Internet** at IP addresses in it, while the settings in the open computer config must be specified.
L277[20:50:31] <AR2​000> +in the virtual network
L278[20:50:43] <AR2​000> but with `icable` ...
L279[20:51:04] <AR2​000> if you were to make a server that can route on a real network ....
L280[20:51:21] <AR2​000> https://github.com/AR2000AR/openComputers_codes/tree/master/icable_server
L281[20:51:25] <AR2​000> https://github.com/AR2000AR/openComputers_codes/blob/master/icable_server/protocol.txt
L282[20:57:09] <Corded> > <Kristo​pher38> for real: @alekcwins why are you so dead set on doing this …
L283[20:57:09] <alek​cwins> i wanted to write one logic for :
L284[20:57:09] <alek​cwins> 1) mvp oc - ( oc client + oc server)
L285[20:57:09] <alek​cwins> 2) part two (golang server + client oc
L286[20:57:26] <alek​cwins> and i think no different for this case
L287[20:57:55] <Corded> > <AR2​000> internet is client only because you can't open tcp port in …
L288[20:57:56] <Forec​aster> Definitely security reasons
L289[20:57:56] <alek​cwins> but doc really not say about this cases and for me this cases not understand in doc
L290[21:04:57] <Corded> > <Forec​aster> Definitely security reasons
L291[21:04:57] <alek​cwins> https://paste.pc-logix.com/ofaconuzig
L292[21:05:04] <Corded> > <alek​cwins> i wanted to write one logic for :
L293[21:05:04] <Corded> 1) mvp oc - ( oc client …
L294[21:05:04] <AR2​000> my api is too far from the internet api. But nothing is preventing you from making a new device compatible with my api that use the internet card instead of the modem one
L295[21:06:45] <Corded> > <AR2​000> my api is too far from the internet api. But nothing is pre…
L296[21:06:46] <alek​cwins> The bigger problem here is that all this behavior with the current documentation causes a lot of things that are just not very obvious
L297[21:07:01] <Forec​aster> Your don't have to understand why it does
L298[21:07:06] <Forec​aster> It just does
L299[21:07:11] <Forec​aster> It's not going to change
L300[21:07:42] <Corded> > <alek​cwins> Well, I'll sum it up and tell me if I understood correctly?…
L301[21:07:43] <alek​cwins> is it current behavior or some mistakes or u can add something i really want this theme add doc?
L302[21:08:35] <Corded> > <alek​cwins> yes okay but i dont understand why oc have other api method…
L303[21:08:35] <AR2​000> you missunderstand. Modem and internet use 2 completely differents api
L304[21:10:46] <fingercomp> I'm still not sure what "global port" that you keep mentioning is (it would imply there are other kinds of ports that I know nothing about)
L305[21:11:17] <Amanda> I'm assuming it's a translation wall for something referencing a real TCP port
L306[21:11:50] <Forec​aster> It's when go out into the mountains and there's an ethernet port in the rock
L307[21:12:01] <Corded> > <AR2​000> you missunderstand. Modem and internet use 2 completely dif…
L308[21:12:02] <alek​cwins> I understand it correctly, but I don't understand why it had to be designed like this.
L309[21:12:33] <Forec​aster> Complaining about it won't change anything
L310[21:12:34] <Corded> > <Ama​nda> I'm assuming it's a translation wall for something referenc…
L311[21:12:34] <alek​cwins> yes
L312[21:12:41] <fingercomp> @alekcwins am I correct in guessing that you'd like modems to provide a stream API in addition to the packet API already there?
L313[21:13:08] <fingercomp> which would work entirely in-game, like modems already do with the packet system
L314[21:15:16] <alek​cwins> I would like one of two things, either this or that: 1 this is if the modem api and the TCP api for the Internet were closer to each other, or the second is that somehow it is more obvious to make the internet api (http/tcp) can only work in client mode
L315[21:15:33] <Corded> > <finge​rcomp> which would work entirely in-game, like modems already do w…
L316[21:15:33] <alek​cwins> yes
L317[21:17:05] <Forec​aster> Again, the mod isn't going to change
L318[21:17:07] <Ocawes​ome101> It's probably easier to let programs handle logic for that. This way the author can get exactly the behavior they want. Minitel is the API for streams that I know abhor.
L319[21:17:13] <Ocawes​ome101> * about.
L320[21:17:29] <fingercomp> well, these TCP streams are implemented in terms of discrete IP packets
L321[21:17:44] <Ocawes​ome101> AR2000's project is also an option.
L322[21:18:07] <fingercomp> which, now that I think of it, is a better analogy: modem messages are like IP packets except with a bit more structure to them
L323[21:18:45] <alek​cwins> https://paste.pc-logix.com/apowibiwox
L324[21:18:51] <fingercomp> or, perhaps, a frame, the frame lower, would work even better here
L325[21:19:07] <fingercomp> *one layer
L326[21:20:58] <Corded> > <Forec​aster> Again, the mod isn't going to change
L327[21:20:59] <alek​cwins> ofcourse i understand this, and after this big discussion can u help me all for write normal doc for other people when read doc understand this aspects
L328[21:21:16] <Corded> > <alek​cwins> Well, I'll sum it up and tell me if I understood correctly?…
L329[21:21:16] <alek​cwins> for this template
L330[21:21:50] <alek​cwins> besouse for me it relly not understand behavior in current doc
L331[21:22:29] <Forec​aster> What is it you're not understanding?
L332[21:27:16] <Corded> > <Forec​aster> What is it you're not understanding?
L333[21:27:16] <alek​cwins> *** current doc not tell me about simpke use case:
L334[21:27:16] <alek​cwins> 1) if u need connect to real TCP or Http server ( whit stay in real world) use Internet api
L335[21:27:16] <alek​cwins> 2) if u need server and client inside game u must use only modem api ( Internet api not support server mode)
L336[21:27:51] <alek​cwins> i think this message must be on page about internet api and modem api on the top
L337[21:29:24] <alek​cwins> and if i saw this message i understand all my questions and i didnt lose more time
L338[21:30:06] <Forec​aster> You already added those to the wiki
L339[21:39:57] <alek​cwins> https://paste.pc-logix.com/oliwigiyub
L340[21:40:52] <alek​cwins> table like this https://discordembeds.pc-logix.com/live/1727214051814.png
L341[21:44:43] <Forec​aster> That to me seems way more involved than it needs to be.
L342[21:47:24] <alek​cwins> maybe you're right, but here it's just that if I'm a developer with experience who makes a living developing on go, I didn't understand from the documentation about such features, then how beginners should understand them and not get confused, I don't understand
L343[21:49:21] <Forec​aster> The added notes about the limitations of the interfaces should do fine.
L344[21:50:20] <Forec​aster> I've edited the one on the internet page to be at the top as well now and look the same as the other one
L345[21:52:29] <Forec​aster> If someone still isn't sure (somehow) they can just come here and ask us just like you did
L346[21:53:06] <Forec​aster> * made it look the same as the other one
L347[21:55:43] <alek​cwins> mb need add too this becouse when first page from modem api ```NOTE: The modem component only works with in-game networks. For out-of-game connections see the internet card.```` and loked like i can use internet api for open tcp socket for listening https://discordembeds.pc-logix.com/live/1727214942772.png
L348[21:57:09] <Izzy> minitel has a streams layer on top of modems :)
L349[21:58:14] <alek​cwins> making HTTP requests is okay and understand but opening TCP sockets in this page https://ocdoc.cil.li/item:internet_card
L350[21:58:15] <alek​cwins> i think nedd add message same ( oc cant intenet api can may be use only like as client)
L351[21:58:37] <alek​cwins> * intenet api can may be use only like as client)
L352[21:58:47] <alek​cwins> * be use only like as client)
L353[22:00:13] <Corded> > <Iz​zy> minitel has a streams layer on top of modems :)
L354[22:00:13] <alek​cwins> is it in open computers? can u share link?
L355[22:00:25] <Izzy> https://github.com/ShadowKatStudios/OC-Minitel
L356[22:00:27] <CompanionCube> i mean technically if you have a server Somewhere Else you could proxy it to your ingame computer if you really want to serve things from ingame for whatever reason
L357[22:02:11] <Corded> > <alek​cwins> i wanted to write one logic for :
L358[22:02:11] <Corded> 1) mvp oc - ( oc client …
L359[22:02:11] <alek​cwins> yes and i do this, but i want case about this
L360[22:02:28] <Izzy> for those that have been playing on my minceraft server, currently in the process of moving it to a location with less packet loss on the WAN connection
L361[22:02:48] <Izzy> pending me re-terminating the cable between the modem and router
L362[22:02:56] <Izzy> because boy I hope that's the problem
L363[22:03:02] <alek​cwins> and when i finidhes 1 part i want change only one side, but if i use modem api i need change two side( client and server)
L364[22:03:31] <Corded> > <Iz​zy> minitel has a streams layer on top of modems :)
L365[22:03:31] <Li​ly> Izzy: What DOESN'T Minitel do?
L366[22:04:22] <Izzy> kidnap you and take you to a secret underground facility where [redacted]
L367[22:04:26] <Izzy> it will never do that
L368[22:04:42] <CompanionCube> also if your network cards ever speak, disregard their advice
L369[22:04:53] <Izzy> ^
L370[22:04:55] <Corded> > <Compan​ionCube> also if your network cards ever speak, disregard their advi…
L371[22:04:55] <Li​ly> Username checks out
L372[22:05:12] <Corded> > <Iz​zy> kidnap you and take you to a secret underground facility wh…
L373[22:05:12] <Li​ly> Izzy: That's not suspicious at all, I'm sold!
L374[22:14:43] <Amanda> Izzy: I checked with the Fates, and it's actually that you angered the supervillan Ishtar
L375[22:14:52] <Amanda> You'll have to give her a deal to fix it
L376[22:21:24] <Izzy> I ... see. That's a little more involved, but I'm going to re-terminate that cable anyway.
L377[22:21:38] <Izzy> It's nearly as old as me, it deserves fresh connectors.
L378[23:20:01] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@p200300eaef214b00bac3508460c618d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Insert quantum chemistry joke here)
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