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L1[00:08:14] <Va​ur> %tonk
L2[00:08:15] <MichiBot> Wah! Va​ur! You beat Mic​hiyo's previous record of 6 hours, 54 minutes and 25 seconds (By 1 hour, 13 minutes and 58 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L3[00:08:16] <MichiBot> Vaur's new record is 8 hours, 8 minutes and 24 seconds! Vaur also gained 0.00861 (0.00123 x 7) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #1.
L4[00:10:08] <Ocawes​ome101> dammit
L5[00:10:11] <Ocawes​ome101> why won't my usb mic work
L6[00:10:26] <Ocawes​ome101> pipewire doesn't recognize it, but alsa does
L7[00:10:30] <Amanda> Insufficient motivation
L8[00:11:47] <sapphicf​ettucine> have you tried bribing the audio interface
L9[00:14:02] <Amanda> I hear it's super into the Mets
L10[00:23:43] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-6-121.dynamic.as20676.net) (Quit: Insert quantum chemistry joke here)
L11[00:35:38] <dequbed> Amanda: ack
L12[00:38:33] <sapphicf​ettucine> you need syn first
L13[00:57:17] <Amanda> LEt she who is without syn cast the last stone
L14[01:37:59] <Amanda> %choose laptop nap time or hark, there be cookies!
L15[01:37:59] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: If I've learned anything in life it's that you always pick "hark, there be cookies"
L16[01:38:18] * Amanda goes looking for the PHPSESSID she gave MichiBot
L17[01:44:44] * CompanionCube Syncs and Sens Amanda to sleep
L18[01:44:49] <CompanionCube> *Sends
L19[01:45:05] <Amanda> Hey! It's not nap time!
L20[01:45:17] <Amanda> LAptop can take a nap though
L21[01:45:24] * Amanda curls up in toypland
L22[01:54:51] ⇦ Quits: testname2 (webchat@p4feed26b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: webchat.esper.net)
L23[02:42:47] * Amanda pads over to Elfi's tree house, curls up against it and zzzmews, blocking the door
L24[02:42:59] <Amanda> Night nerds
L25[02:53:09] <Wat​tana> I'm getting weird ideas to turn Cynosure into an actual 6502 kernel
L26[02:53:32] <Wat​tana> ~~Thistlesure~~
L27[02:55:56] <Wat​tana> C with barely any standard runtime would be a huge pain, though. And ASM? I'll pass
L28[02:57:24] <Wat​tana> Well some extra sufferings wouldn't be that bad
L29[03:08:46] <CompanionCube> i mean, C at all is a pain on 6502, no?
L30[03:45:11] *** Izaya_ is now known as Izaya
L31[03:45:18] <Izaya> Amanda: nice!
L32[03:52:29] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv|afk (~ben_mkiv@200116b814a39f00fe3497fffea975f2.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 192 seconds)
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L35[04:41:03] <Izaya> do cables work through unloaded chunks?
L36[04:42:49] <CompanionCube> Izaya: 'shoot first and ask questions later' very cool and normal quote from the deputy labour leadr
L37[04:42:56] <Izaya> class
L38[04:46:15] <CompanionCube> (note: context does not make it better. And the deputy rightly or wrongly is seen as the more left than the actual leader)
L39[06:23:33] ⇦ Quits: Thutmose (~Patrick@67.21.186.225) (Quit: Leaving.)
L40[06:41:49] <B​ob> >sapphicfettucine: it might be easier to strip off the last byte in future ig
L41[06:41:49] <B​ob> wdym ?
L42[06:43:54] <sapphicf​ettucine> if there's a trailing null byte, slice the last byte off instead of checking every byte
L43[06:59:47] <lunar_sam> i bitched about discord forcing updates in the wrong channel lmfao
L44[07:25:58] <B​ob> >sapphicfettucine: if there's a trailing null byte, slice the last byte off instead of ch…
L45[07:25:58] <B​ob> yeah but how, i'm not using strings but readers
L46[07:26:03] <B​ob> i'm going the procedural way
L47[07:26:17] <B​ob> i had to make a wrapper arounda bufreader to stop at the first null byte
L48[07:28:21] <B​ob> if only it was as easy as slice the last bit off
L49[07:28:30] <B​ob> tbh im tempted to add the null byte to the whitespace character group
L50[07:28:36] <B​ob> so that `end` would just ignore it
L51[07:28:40] <B​ob> and i wouldnt need to consume the first byte too
L52[07:28:44] <B​ob> that'd be just fire
L53[08:07:38] ⇦ Quits: infin (~infina@claudius.lobsternetworks.com) (*.net *.split)
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L65[08:10:54] anarchy.esper.net sets mode: +v on superminor2
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L67[08:17:19] <Va​ur> %tonkout
L68[08:17:20] <MichiBot> Holy roberto's knife Batman! Va​ur! You beat your own previous record of 8 hours, 8 minutes and 24 seconds (By 40 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L69[08:17:21] <MichiBot> Va​ur has tonked out! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.008 tonk points! plus 0.014 bonus points for consecutive hours! Current score: 0.54617432, Position #1
L70[08:25:47] <B​ob> i think i figured out how to ignore trailing characters by finishing parsing immediately as the Json is closed
L71[08:26:12] <B​ob> i need to spawn an instance of the deserializer then use T::deser with said instance
L72[08:26:20] <B​ob> then i can just null check before and after
L73[08:29:01] ⇨ Joins: Michiyo_ (~Michiyo@50.38.53.215)
L74[08:29:01] zsh sets mode: +o on Michiyo_
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L76[08:48:32] <B​ob> hah ayes https://tinyurl.com/yckdpb7u
L77[08:51:02] <B​ob> HLAPI has been defeated https://tinyurl.com/yd8cw6mp
L78[08:51:08] <B​ob> now i just need to remove serde at some point, fat af
L79[09:05:21] <B​ob> using `-Os` only shaves off 20 kb
L80[09:05:21] <B​ob> eh
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L83[09:22:23] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L84[09:43:02] <Forec​aster> %sip
L85[09:43:04] <MichiBot> You drink a wild titanium potion (New!). Everything Forecaster says is now in Comic Sans until the next time they hug someone.
L86[10:06:33] <Va​ur> %sip
L87[10:06:34] <MichiBot> You drink a wild aluminium potion (New!). Tonk moved forward 4 hours. (Rem. uses: 0)
L88[10:35:16] <B​ob> https://github.com/big-lip-bob/OC2-HLAPI-Rust/tree/master
L89[10:35:16] <B​ob> yay
L90[10:41:00] <B​ob> not to boast or anything, but i think i must have the cleanest implementation with the readers / writers
L91[10:46:46] <B​ob> altough using serde is cheating so
L92[11:14:11] <B​ob> also its kinda weird that multiple components are merged under the same ID
L93[11:14:14] <B​ob> that kinda makes no sense at all
L94[11:32:05] <Zen​1th> i wonder
L95[11:32:09] <Zen​1th> is there an oc2vm ?
L96[11:34:10] <ThePi​Guy24> idk, qemu or something ;p
L97[11:45:30] <Zen​1th> yea but it won't emulate OC2-specific devices
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L102[12:39:53] <Amanda> actually I think the device used for that can be passed to qemu as a commandline argument, to be talked to using a socket
L103[12:40:18] <Amanda> so qemu + some external software to rpetend to be HLAPI might work
L104[12:41:01] <Amanda> throw a wrapper script around it, and wah-lah
L105[12:50:49] ⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@200116b814a39f00fe3497fffea975f2.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
L106[13:15:36] <MichiBot> Amanda REMINDER: move the lxd volume to the ssd instead of having it on the hdd, convert the ssd to butter first
L107[13:58:52] <Amanda> %choose move it all or just make a storage thingo
L108[13:58:52] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: I received a telegram from a long lost relative that only read "just make a storage thingo". Weird.
L109[13:59:17] <Amanda> Right. Still will require some downtime, to convert the root to btrfs
L110[14:01:23] <dequbed> Izaya: OC1? I'm pretty sure cables work through unloaded chunks. OC2? Sorta but it should work somewhat good enough.
L111[14:03:57] <dequbed> @Zen1th you can run Sedna standalone AFAIK. Here's the list of OC2-specific built in devices: https://github.com/fnuecke/oc2/blob/baa3ca897683b0d131e986b832ff540acc5cb186/src/main/java/li/cil/oc2/common/vm/BuiltinDevices.java#L37-L43
L112[14:04:40] <Kristo​pher38> dequbed: not sure about OC1, but my experience comes from "some immersive engineering addon added OC telecommunication wires which work through unloaded chunks so probably stock OC cables don't" so the latter part doesn't necessarily have to be true
L113[14:14:05] <ben_mkiv> is the modpack you guys currently play 1.18 with OC2?
L114[14:18:28] <ThePi​Guy24> >Kristopher38: dequbed: not sure about OC1, but my experience comes from "some immersive eng…
L115[14:18:29] <ThePi​Guy24> zetta industries ;p
L116[14:20:59] <B​ob> lets gooo https://tinyurl.com/yargsj3f
L117[14:24:32] <dequbed> ben_mkiv: I made a 1.18 modpack with (a patched) OC2 and a few other mods that's also running on a server.
L118[14:26:35] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@200116b814a39f00fe3497fffea975f2.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 192 seconds)
L119[14:27:20] <dequbed> %tell ben_mkiv Since you probably just about missed it: I made a 1.18 modpack with (a patched) OC2 and a few other mods that's also running on a server.
L120[14:27:20] <MichiBot> deq​ubed: ben_mkiv will be notified of this message when next seen.
L121[14:27:27] <dequbed> Thank you MichiBot
L122[14:33:34] ⇦ Quits: Kasen (~rakiru@has.anyone.really.been.far.even.as.decided.to.use.a.witch.horse) (Quit: boop)
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L124[14:38:29] <B​ob> where / how would i look the JSON sturcture of the various types returned by the HLAPI
L125[14:38:42] <B​ob> for examples in the redstone component, sides is the string representation
L126[14:57:15] <Amanda> I'm pretty sure there's no schema for that stuff exposed
L127[14:58:20] <Amanda> Other that what we already get in the "methods" RPC Call
L128[14:58:56] <Amanda> %choose cursed C++ or veg out some
L129[14:58:56] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: I have a pamphlet that says never to engage in "cursed C++", so you should definitely do it!
L130[14:59:08] <Amanda> Hrm. Some halucinating, then cursed c++
L131[15:02:27] <B​ob> well then we're pretty much screwed ?
L132[15:02:54] <B​ob> i only have to write the json to Rust struct dumper and im done
L133[15:03:24] <sapphicf​ettucine> i just look at the java defs
L134[15:05:02] <B​ob> fair enough, its all Java types anywyas
L135[15:05:04] <B​ob> fair enough, its all Java types anyways [Edited]
L136[15:05:47] <B​ob> kinda unsure how to handle parameters yet<https://github.com/big-lip-bob/OC2-HLAPI-Rust/blob/2c6b214b6a87f94d4176ab0c103fdd680eeddbf2/src/bus.rs#L36&gt;
L137[15:08:30] <B​ob> the only issue is that the executable is 150kB and that takes eons to import with the default lua importer
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L142[15:35:07] <Z0id​berg> The best C++ is no C++
L143[15:38:41] <dequbed> C++ is like JavaScript in that it's good in the right doses but the best professionals of either domain spend most of their time not *writing* code but *deleting* code.
L144[15:39:36] <dequbed> To be fair, this is an issue that all complex, backwards-compatible and evolving languages face. It's also true for the likes of Rust :)
L145[15:42:34] ⇨ Joins: Thutmose (~Patrick@67.21.186.225)
L146[15:44:16] ⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@200116b814a39f00fe3497fffea975f2.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
L147[15:44:30] <sapphicf​ettucine> it is definitely true for rust
L148[15:44:50] <dequbed> Arguably even more so given how quickly the ecosystem is evolving.
L149[15:44:58] <Amanda> .... the hell? How the hell is picojson generating THAT!?
L150[15:45:23] <Amanda> https://matrix.camnet.site/_matrix/media/r0/download/camnet.site/vRkeFQLdzjjFabetnrFArGle/2022-02-18_10.44.46.png
L151[15:45:24] <sapphicf​ettucine> honestly programming can be a lot like writing an essay
L152[15:45:55] <sapphicf​ettucine> you can start with a lot of loose stuff cobbled together, but then if you want it to be better you have to review, cut down, rearrange
L153[15:46:04] <B​ob> but its a thousand times easier 😔
L154[15:46:04] <Amanda> I'm trying to optimise my libhlapi.so by making it reuse the read buffer as a send buffer, but it seems that picojson says no to the std::span I'm passing in of the buffer.
L155[15:46:22] <Forec​aster> >sapphicfettucine: you can start with a lot of loose stuff cobbled together, but then if you wan…
L156[15:46:22] <Forec​aster> And plagiarize!
L157[15:46:32] <Forec​aster> I mean... borrow things...
L158[15:46:44] <dequbed> Amanda: nice. Wonderfully cursed JSON \o/
L159[15:46:48] <sapphicf​ettucine> that's what the borrow checker's for
L160[15:47:05] <sapphicf​ettucine> >Amanda: https://matrix.camnet.site/_matrix/media/r0/download/camnet.site/vRkeFQLdzjjFabetnr���
L161[15:47:05] <sapphicf​ettucine> this is impressively haunted
L162[15:47:44] <dequbed> @sapphicfettucine That's not even what I was talking about. I was mainly talking about maintaining existing software, not writing new one. That looks reasonably samey in all of those languages.
L163[15:48:10] <sapphicf​ettucine> that is also true
L164[15:48:38] <sapphicf​ettucine> the only thing we can all agree on i hope
L165[15:48:53] <sapphicf​ettucine> is that the worst thing to maintain is old unix adjacent c code
L166[15:49:06] <dequbed> No I'm afraid we can't
L167[15:49:27] <sapphicf​ettucine> have you seen bsd's telnet code
L168[15:50:15] <dequbed> UNIX adjacent C code is some of the best C code you'll find. Terrible *C* code is found on very non-UNIX systems, DOS, Amiga, et.al. And none of that measures up to the spaghetti COBOL that is run on old old IBM mainframes kept current by IBM.
L169[15:50:40] <sapphicf​ettucine> i disagree with that there is a lot of spaghetti hiding in unix
L170[15:50:45] <dequbed> Yes
L171[15:50:51] <dequbed> It's still the best C code you'll find.
L172[15:50:56] <dequbed> Taken *as a whole*
L173[15:51:00] <sapphicf​ettucine> ...fair :p
L174[15:51:07] <dequbed> Of course, there's some applications that are very well written.
L175[15:51:17] <sapphicf​ettucine> it's better flavoured spaghetti than the other spaghettis out there
L176[15:51:29] <sapphicf​ettucine> this has become a deeply contrived metaphor
L177[15:52:56] <dequbed> Yes, how dare you be obtuse in #oc?!
L178[15:53:20] <sapphicf​ettucine> sinful i know
L179[15:54:58] <Forec​aster> %tonk
L180[15:55:00] <MichiBot> Fudge! Forec​aster! You beat Va​ur's previous record of <0 (By 3 hours, 37 minutes and 39 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L181[15:55:01] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new record is 3 hours, 37 minutes and 39 seconds! Forecaster also gained 0.00363 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #3. Need 0.01738432 more points to pass Mic​hiyo!
L182[15:55:26] <dequbed> @sapphicfettucine That being said lesbian pasta is probably on the list of lifeforms that are allowed to make deeply intertwined spaghetti-related metaphors. I'd check but Ariri moved the scroll listing those into some other dimension and now I can't read beyond the first 2.3e pages in our three.
L183[15:56:24] <sapphicf​ettucine> this is actually my fourth lesbian pasta username
L184[15:56:42] <dequbed> I assume the first three were even worse puns?
L185[15:56:50] <sapphicf​ettucine> gayspaghetti -> homoravioli -> lesbianlinguine -> current
L186[15:58:39] <dequbed> That's one language barrier I'll always have an issue with I fear; the literal translation of gay exclusively means achillean in german and it takes me several second to convert that when reading english.
L187[15:59:35] <sapphicf​ettucine> huh!
L188[15:59:49] <sapphicf​ettucine> in portuguese we usually just use the english word
L189[16:03:02] <dequbed> That's becoming common here to given english-speaking/-appropiating influencers but Germany used to have an extremely vibrant alphabet mafia in the early 19th century so german followed suit and has a large amount of colloquial vocabulary for all aspects of that
L190[16:04:38] <dequbed> ... early 20th century of course.
L191[16:16:13] <sapphicf​ettucine> lmao, that's a great linguistical origin
L192[16:18:31] <Brisingr​Aerowing> I thought you said linguistical organ at first.
L193[16:18:36] <dequbed> For context I probably should add that "alphabet mafia" means LGBTQIA+ because a) it translates better into multiple languages b) it's the family you're somewhat born into and you can never leave once you accept your membership c) c'mon *look at the name*. I know GSRM exist.
L194[16:21:36] <sapphicf​ettucine> yeah, i've studied queer culture in weimar germany a bit and it's fascinating
L195[16:21:49] <sapphicf​ettucine> >dequbed: For context I probably should add that "alphabet mafia" means LGBTQIA+ because a) i…
L196[16:21:49] <sapphicf​ettucine> alphabet mafia's great lmao
L197[16:22:58] <Ariri> dequbed, sorry, I may have misplaced it in a neutron star somewhere
L198[16:23:32] <Amanda> damnit Ariri, you know those things are just-barely not black holes, stop using them for storage
L199[16:23:47] <dequbed> @sapphicfettucine Probably not a term you should use outside the alphabet mafia sphere. In common parlance "LGBTQIA+" is better known and in more medically minded ones "GSRM" is more correct and probably the best one.
L200[16:24:17] <Amanda> I think of the various TLAs when I hear "alphabet mafia"
L201[16:24:19] <Ariri> Amanda, but quark-gluon plasma go brrrr :(
L202[16:24:25] <Izaya> GSRM is my favourite mobile network technology
L203[16:24:28] <Izaya> (please explain)
L204[16:24:38] <dequbed> Gender, Sexual and Romantic Minorities
L205[16:24:47] ⇨ Joins: Hawk777 (~chead@2607:c000:8279:6e00:a2a6:c9d6:2542:7bcb)
L206[16:24:57] <Izaya> that makes sense
L207[16:25:40] <dequbed> I'm not a big fan of the term by itself because it can be easier twisted to include certain subgroups the alphabet mafia very much does not want amongst their ranks but AFAICT it's the accepted word in the medical community since they stopped calling it a mental disorder :P
L208[16:33:45] <Ariri> %pat dequbed
L209[16:33:46] <MichiBot> Ariri is brushing dequbed with the blueprints for a self-driving sofa. dequbed regains 1d6 => 3 hit points! The blueprints for a self-driving sofa falls into a chasm.
L210[16:37:22] <dequbed> %pet Ariri
L211[16:37:23] <MichiBot> dequbed is petting Ariri with a very yabe situation. Ariri regains 1d4 => 4 hit points! The very yabe situation angered a witch and was turned into a toad.
L212[16:37:45] <Ariri> yabe indeed
L213[16:37:57] <dequbed> … I'm not going to google that.
L214[16:38:49] <sapphicf​ettucine> yeah i've never seen someone use gsrm casually lol
L215[16:39:02] <Forec​aster> it's Baba Yaga's distant cousin, Baba Yabe
L216[16:40:16] <Forec​aster> (that isn't true, but it sounds like it could be)
L217[16:47:01] <lunar_sam> oh fuck
L218[16:47:06] <lunar_sam> i uh
L219[16:47:19] <lunar_sam> i borked my linux install
L220[16:48:12] <Forec​aster> well un-bork it!
L221[16:55:00] <lunar_sam> what the FUCK
L222[16:55:09] <lunar_sam> i have no kernel modules
L223[16:58:38] <Izaya> kernel version mismatch
L224[16:59:14] <lunar_sam> i don't even have ext2
L225[16:59:17] <lunar_sam> wtf
L226[16:59:29] <lunar_sam> can grub write to ext2 by chance
L227[17:00:19] <lunar_sam> better question woulsa bee
L228[17:00:22] <lunar_sam> *woulda
L229[17:00:28] <lunar_sam> "can grub write"
L230[17:04:56] <lunar_sam> i did it yay
L231[17:05:24] <lunar_sam> my pc likes do be a fuck during updates
L232[17:13:11] <Va​ur> %tonk
L233[17:13:12] <MichiBot> I'm sorry Vaur, you were not able to beat Forecaster's record of 3 hours, 37 minutes and 39 seconds this time. 1 hour, 18 minutes and 12 seconds were wasted! Missed by 2 hours, 19 minutes and 26 seconds!
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L236[17:19:27] <lunar_sam> also the kernel i had was 5.7 lol
L237[17:19:35] <lunar_sam> for my "fallback"
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L242[18:44:24] <Z0id​berg> I wish people would stop using GPL
L243[19:06:37] <Va​ur> what would you prefer they use ? and why ?
L244[19:32:47] <Z0id​berg> Something more trivial and less complicated like BSD or MIT would be preferred.
L245[19:35:06] <Z0id​berg> Personally I use a 3 clause BSD license for my projects, though that's just for my use cases.
L246[19:38:23] <sapphicf​ettucine> i mean, GPL being very thorough is kind of it's point?
L247[19:39:57] <B​ob> that's the best license : http://www.wtfpl.net/
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L249[19:40:26] *** potato is now known as Guest94999
L250[19:41:01] <Guest94999> hi
L251[19:41:15] <sapphicf​ettucine> hello
L252[19:41:24] <sapphicf​ettucine> i usually use <https://anticapitalist.software/&gt;, the AGPL or the unlicense
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L254[19:41:57] <sapphicf​ettucine> riv
L255[19:42:40] <Z0id​berg> The thing is, rules don't work the same way we think they do, and if I have to hand off a report to our company lawyer to read our project terms and the use of GPL software in our product every time we use any- it's too complicated. The bigger the license the more likely there are scattered loopholes everywhere, but the GPL is a mature license, so that's not as important. Still, it is large enough that I can't do anything with any GPL software
L256[19:42:40] <Z0id​berg> without talking to our lawyer first.
L257[19:42:57] <sapphicf​ettucine> i mean
L258[19:43:06] <Z0id​berg> It makes it easier often to just not even consider them
L259[19:43:32] <sapphicf​ettucine> i personally just do not make software that i super want to be used by companies
L260[19:43:47] <sapphicf​ettucine> which is why i use AGPL/anticapitalist.software which are pretty good deterrents lol
L261[19:43:51] <Z0id​berg> If you work as a developer you can't always escape it
L262[19:44:01] <sapphicf​ettucine> i can certainly scare off the lawyers though
L263[19:44:06] <Z0id​berg> heh
L264[19:44:17] <sapphicf​ettucine> for my open source stuff, that is
L265[19:44:24] <sapphicf​ettucine> if a company is paying me to work for them that's another thing
L266[19:44:27] <B​ob> >sapphicfettucine: i personally just do not make software that i super want to be used by…
L267[19:44:28] <B​ob> wait till companies start using OC2 for their server infrastructure
L268[19:45:00] <sapphicf​ettucine> that's called WASM@Edge and it's worse than OC2
L269[19:45:02] <Hawk777> If you wrote it (100% of it), and a company wants to use it, you can always offer them another license alongside GPL (for money or not as you wish).
L270[19:45:14] <sapphicf​ettucine> yea
L271[19:45:21] <Z0id​berg> The Apache license is another fairly nice BSD derived license as well I usually forget about
L272[19:45:51] <Z0id​berg> Though I never see a reason to use it since th eBSD license exists
L273[19:45:53] <Hawk777> Just means they can’t take it and use it for nothing in return.
L274[19:46:08] <sapphicf​ettucine> and then complain about it on github issues
L275[19:47:15] <Z0id​berg> and is @sapphicfettucine renicked from sapphire?
L276[19:49:17] <asie> just fyi: i refuse to use unlicense/wtfpl softweare
L277[19:49:21] <asie> in my own projects
L278[19:49:46] <asie> if it's a deterrent to corporate lawyers who can afford to defend themselves in court, it's a double deterrent to me who can't - and i do not trust people i'm not friends with to act in good faith towards my projects
L279[19:49:49] <asie> so i need to assume the worst-case scenario
L280[19:50:03] <B​ob> fair enough
L281[19:50:20] <asie> AGPL is fine, as is more vetted stuff like the CC0/0BSD (if you want an unconditional license)
L282[19:51:23] <sapphicf​ettucine> https://twitter.com/reduct_rs/status/1390934244042543104
L283[19:51:28] <asie> the ACSL is too vague - I prefer the way Sybase's OpenWatcom license discriminated between personal and commercial use, it was much clearer
L284[19:51:47] <sapphicf​ettucine> >Z0idberg: and is <@!722196443514798181> renicked from sapphire?
L285[19:51:47] <sapphicf​ettucine> nope
L286[19:51:52] <lunar_sam> so, what's the opinions on the MPL, ust curious
L287[19:51:54] <lunar_sam> *just
L288[19:52:05] <asie> MPLv2 tries to be copyleft but file-level copyleft has the big gaping hole in it
L289[19:52:11] <asie> of "just move all your changes to a separate file and #include it"
L290[19:52:13] <sapphicf​ettucine> >asie: the ACSL is too vague - I prefer the way Sybase's OpenWatcom license discriminated …
L291[19:52:13] <sapphicf​ettucine> that's fair i just use it when i really don't want any corporate using it lol
L292[19:52:28] <asie> i mean sure, just keep in mind these decisions will scare off law-conscious users too
L293[19:52:38] <asie> if that's acceptable to you, fine by me
L294[19:52:40] <asie> it's your labor not mine
L295[19:52:42] <sapphicf​ettucine> (specific software is around real time image processing)
L296[19:52:49] <lunar_sam> > of "just move all your changes to a separate file and #include it"
L297[19:52:49] <lunar_sam> fair enough
L298[19:53:03] <sapphicf​ettucine> (which, is sensitive now since [gestures at hellhole of facial rec])
L299[19:53:15] <asie> i don't mind every non-FOSS license but once you don't guarantee the four freedoms you better make it very legally clear what the rules are
L300[19:53:32] <asie> like, the GPLv2 and CC pre-4.0 had a big issue of not offering a grace period for violators
L301[19:53:36] <asie> which has led to a new kind of copyright troll
L302[19:53:48] <sapphicf​ettucine> i just like making GNU mad
L303[19:53:57] <asie> if you want to make GNU mad just install Alpine Linux
L304[19:54:15] <Izaya> I do not want to make GNU mad, GNU utilities are messy but comfy
L305[19:54:18] <asie> I don't have anything against GNU; I'm not a fan of rms, but we owe the GNU project the fact we can compile things without paying $50-$500 for a compiler
L306[19:54:27] * Izaya tar xvfs without specifying a compression algo
L307[19:54:29] <asie> and many other things
L308[19:54:42] <asie> the FSF is a bit of a relic of the past as they failed to adapt to new threats
L309[19:54:51] <asie> but they did a lot of good work in their prime
L310[19:54:55] <sapphicf​ettucine> i do find their approach to free software a bit maddening sometimes
L311[19:54:57] <sapphicf​ettucine> agreed
L312[19:55:05] <asie> yes because they got stuck in the 90s
L313[19:55:17] <asie> where their goals were on point: software was the product, forcing companies to GPL software was enough to level the playing field
L314[19:55:29] <sapphicf​ettucine> like that damn thing with the free software phone which had a coprocessor lmao
L315[19:55:37] <asie> but once stuff like SaaS and the Web started happening, they failed to respond to that - as it was impossible to do so without compromising
L316[19:55:41] <asie> the AGPL is a hack
L317[19:55:51] <lunar_sam> > <sapphicf​ettucine> like that damn thing with the free software phone which had a coprocessor lmao
L318[19:55:51] <lunar_sam> what, which one
L319[19:55:55] <asie> Purism Librem
L320[19:55:57] <lunar_sam> ah
L321[19:56:04] <asie> not just that - linux-libre and libreboot forbid you from loading proprietary blobs
L322[19:56:11] <asie> ... like CPU microcode updates to fix bugs and protect against vulnerabilities
L323[19:56:26] <lunar_sam> yeah
L324[19:56:30] <asie> once your vision of software freedom hurts users while not protecting against corporate exploitation
L325[19:56:30] <lunar_sam> y e a h
L326[19:56:34] <asie> maybe it's time to rethink that vision
L327[19:56:36] <asie> just saying
L328[19:56:36] <lunar_sam> (SGX moment)
L329[19:56:47] <asie> now, that applies mostly to the FSF
L330[19:56:51] <asie> the OSI was always a pro-corporate thing
L331[19:57:01] <asie> on the other hand, we owe Firefox and Mozilla's existence to them
L332[19:57:11] <lunar_sam> god i wish firefox was better
L333[19:57:15] <asie> as selling Netscape on the idea that open source can be good for business is how Netscape got open sourced into Mozilla
L334[19:57:34] <asie> so, like, i respect them for what they accomplished
L335[19:57:39] <asie> but i do think new challenges need new responses
L336[19:58:24] <lunar_sam> also uh, as just another random question
L337[19:58:45] <lunar_sam> is servo still being developed? like, can it mostly properly render webpages yet?
L338[19:58:49] <asie> it's dead
L339[19:58:56] <lunar_sam> yeah, that's what i thought
L340[19:58:59] <lunar_sam> a shame, too
L341[19:59:00] <asie> but it makes perfect sense
L342[19:59:02] <asie> here's the problem
L343[19:59:09] <asie> gecko and webkit are both running 20+ years of legacy websites
L344[19:59:19] <asie> it's REALLY hard to make a fresh browser engine that can keep similar promises
L345[19:59:28] <lunar_sam> yeah
L346[19:59:42] <asie> as much as i'd have liked Firefox to innovate here
L347[19:59:49] <Elfi> Kind of wish Presto could've been open-sourced
L348[19:59:51] <asie> maintaining Servo would be very much a 90/10 project
L349[19:59:54] <Elfi> Fat chance of that now
L350[20:00:00] <asie> where the final 10% would take 90% of the budget
L351[20:00:06] <asie> however, parts of Servo did end up in Firefox
L352[20:00:08] <asie> so it's not all lost
L353[20:00:20] <lunar_sam> and a question about firefox, am i the only one that has firefox just
L354[20:00:24] <lunar_sam> completely hang randomly
L355[20:00:27] <B​ob> still kinda sad servo is now abandonware
L356[20:00:44] <B​ob> i do have crash issues with firefox and a lot of them, i cant restart it unless i launch it in safe mode and restore my session
L357[20:00:49] <B​ob> but randomly hanging no
L358[20:00:52] <asie> i owned a firefox os phone
L359[20:00:54] <B​ob> maybe just monitor your RAM / SWAP
L360[20:00:54] <asie> that was fun
L361[20:00:56] <Hawk777> Don’t tend to get crashes or hangs for me.
L362[20:01:02] <Hawk777> Pretty much just… works.
L363[20:01:06] <B​ob> huh FireFoxOS
L364[20:01:17] <lunar_sam> > <B​ob> still kinda sad servo is now abandonware
L365[20:01:17] <lunar_sam> yeah. i don't like rust but it also seemed to be fairly easy to use with C, so that's why i was taking a liking to it
L366[20:01:56] <lunar_sam> also, my desktop has 32GB of RAM, i was def checking out the RAM situation, but i still can't figure out *why* it does this
L367[20:02:03] <Izaya> would've been interesting to play with luakit but servo
L368[20:02:13] <lunar_sam> yeah
L369[20:02:28] <Michiyo_> 32GB pffft, rookie numbers.
L370[20:02:37] <lunar_sam> as for hanging, my only lead is uhhh
L371[20:02:55] <Michiyo_> I want my 2nd 64GB kit, but can't justify the price tag right now
L372[20:02:55] <Michiyo_> lol
L373[20:03:24] <lunar_sam> metro exodus and the mysterious SIGSEGV in libnvidia-glcore.so, since that also seems to be another "unexplainable error" that i see some people talk about with fuck all in terms of a fix
L374[20:03:45] <lunar_sam> so
L375[20:03:48] <lunar_sam> i'll just for now say
L376[20:03:50] <lunar_sam> "nvidia'd"
L377[20:04:45] <lunar_sam> also i would say "i want more RAM" but i typically don't get close to running out of ram
L378[20:09:12] <Amanda> @Sangar does the HLAPI have a hard limit on response size? I looked around, and I didn't see anything that would indicate that. I noticed VM -> JAva can only to 4KiB, but nothing limiting the reverse.
L379[20:12:42] <San​gar> The transmitBuffer is also initialized with the 4K capacity, and there's a hasRemaining() check in the read, so it should also be limited to that. don't think I've actually tested that yet, though.
L380[20:20:03] <Amanda> @Sangar writeMessage is setting receiveBuffer though: https://github.com/fnuecke/oc2/blob/1.18-forge/src/main/java/li/cil/oc2/common/bus/RPCDeviceBusAdapter.java#L389-L407
L381[20:20:23] <Amanda> ( And doesn't seem to do any sanity checks on the message size )
L382[20:20:54] <San​gar> ah, sorry, brainfart, was thinking the wrong way around
L383[20:21:26] <San​gar> hohum. thought that did a check, guess it doesn't.
L384[20:21:42] <Amanda> yeah, VM -> Java is definately limited to 4KiB
L385[20:21:57] <Amanda> and only one message in flight at a time if I'm reeading it + it's comments right
L386[20:22:09] <San​gar> yes
L387[20:24:13] <Amanda> I'm fairly certine I can do some read/memory optimisation if the limit applies both ways, but I wasn't sure if it did / was meant to
L388[20:24:20] <Amanda> ( in my C++ hlapi lib )
L389[20:27:25] <B​ob> so basically we and should use 4KiB buffers ?
L390[20:28:13] <Amanda> I bumped my buffer up to 4KiB and made it get used in the writing process as well, but I've avoided doing any such buffer-reuse optimisation in the reading
L391[20:28:58] <Amanda> it's also worth noting that the VM might get only part of that at once, depending on the virtual hardware state and the kenrel state etc
L392[20:30:18] <Amanda> https://git.camnet.site/gitweb/?p=amandac/mc/oc2/cxx-fuckery.git;a=blob;f=hlapi/hlapi.cc;h=8e51d1dc1e7a48769b61fd9243758d567273133e;hb=HEAD#l138
L393[20:30:21] <B​ob> i just use stack buffers
L394[20:30:50] <Amanda> HAd to hack picojson to make it work, since it's output iterator was RAAI'ing itself into resets, which is what caused that cursed json output in my screenshot earlier
L395[20:31:20] <B​ob> `{:;:}` vibes
L396[20:31:36] <B​ob> my implementation of the HLAPI looks deceptively simple, thanks to `serde`
L397[20:32:17] <B​ob> i'm thinking about benchmarking different buffer sizes by running file imports
L398[20:32:30] <B​ob> then seeing which size performs the best, transferring 1MB files
L399[20:32:36] <B​ob> a good implementation would reach 20kB/s
L400[20:32:47] <Amanda> buffer size didn't have much of an impact for me
L401[20:32:55] <Amanda> also the max import size is 512KiB
L402[20:32:59] <B​ob> `import.lua` has a transfer rate of 1kB/s
L403[20:35:15] <sapphicf​ettucine> miku-import is at around 20kb/s iirc
L404[20:35:17] <Amanda> ... less, @Bob. It took 11 minutes to import a max-size file
L405[20:35:22] <sapphicf​ettucine> kib* probly
L406[20:35:54] <B​ob> >sapphicfettucine: miku-import is at around 20kb/s iirc
L407[20:35:54] <B​ob> yep it is
L408[20:36:05] <B​ob> >Amanda: ... less, <@!202281082047954954>. It took 11 minutes to import a max-s…
L409[20:36:05] <B​ob> yeah... it hurts at times
L410[20:36:11] <B​ob> my executables are quite fucking fat due to serde
L411[20:36:19] <B​ob> and i dont have the sanity to go `no_std`
L412[20:53:53] *** Michiyo_ is now known as Michiyo
L413[20:54:16] <Michiyo> %tonk
L414[20:54:16] <MichiBot> Holy power adapter incompatible with everything Batman! Mic​hiyo! You beat Forec​aster's previous record of 3 hours, 37 minutes and 39 seconds (By 3 minutes and 25 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L415[20:54:17] <MichiBot> Michiyo's new record is 3 hours, 41 minutes and 4 seconds! Michiyo also gained 0.00024 (0.00006 x 4) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #2. Need 0.16042432 more points to pass Va​ur!
L416[20:54:25] <Michiyo> 3 minutes/
L417[20:54:28] <Michiyo> ?*
L418[20:54:30] <Michiyo> Oh...
L419[20:55:10] <Forec​aster> >:
L420[21:27:45] <CompanionCube> Izaya: microsoft continues the war against its users: 'You’ll need a Microsoft account to set up future versions of Windows 11 Pro'
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L423[22:01:57] <lunar_sam> bypassed in 3 months
L424[22:02:27] <Amanda> You kidding? A week, tops
L425[22:03:02] <Amanda> There will be some undocumented way around it for the prickly eNtErPrIsE customers to opt out
L426[22:04:36] <Ar​iri> %choose forget or not
L427[22:04:36] <MichiBot> Ar​iri: I received a message from future you, said to go with "not".
L428[22:04:46] <Elfi> Active directory, I'm pretty sure
L429[22:06:18] <Amanda> and then someone will find it's all easily disableable with a registry flag or some shit
L430[22:06:22] <Ar​iri> i'm glad my windows 10 pro desktop doesn't meet the requirements for win 11
L431[22:06:45] <Elfi> Mine won't until I add a TPM module to the virtual machine... which I have no need to :B
L432[22:07:04] * Amanda curls up around Elfi , her fur extra floofy from the hair dryer she just stepped out of
L433[22:07:07] <Elfi> I dunno if the laptop I just refurbished will be 11-compatible or not, it hasn't connected to the internet since 2019
L434[22:07:46] * Elfi curls up on Amanda
L435[22:07:58] * Amanda offers Elfi snacks
L436[22:11:39] <Amanda> %remindme 2d12h you should really make a place on the SSD for using LXD stuff that's speed-sensitive now, since you played with fake computers all friday instead
L437[22:11:39] <MichiBot> I'll tell you "you should really make a place on the SSD for using LXD stuff that's speed-sensitive now, since you played with fake computers all friday instead" in 2d12h at 02/21/2022 10:11:39 AM
L438[22:19:37] <Amanda> So Ariri what aren't you forgetting?
L439[22:32:33] <Ar​iri> Amanda, I was deciding whether I punish myself or not for royally screwing something up :/
L440[22:33:52] <lunar_sam> discord is fucking stupid
L441[22:33:55] <lunar_sam> i s2g
L442[22:34:07] <lunar_sam> also shoutout to the source game crashing steam
L443[22:34:32] <Ar​iri> agreed but what did discord do this time
L444[22:34:36] <lunar_sam> so i'm just copying the game to my windows drive lol
L445[22:34:43] <lunar_sam> @Ariri i can't launch it until i update
L446[22:34:46] <lunar_sam> the update isn't in the repos
L447[22:34:55] <lunar_sam> i can't be assed to DL the tgz on my LTE
L448[22:35:08] <Ar​iri> yeah
L449[22:35:13] <Ar​iri> that's a Discord moment
L450[22:35:30] <lunar_sam> "how do we make this as awful for the users as possible"
L451[22:35:34] <lunar_sam> discord motto right there
L452[22:35:52] <Ar​iri> yup
L453[22:40:50] <lunar_sam> time to reboot into windows
L454[22:40:56] <lunar_sam> since neotokyo hates proton apparently
L455[22:50:46] <Amanda> Ariri you should forgive yourself, and forget to do more stuff@!
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L458[23:01:16] ⇨ Joins: Away_21 (crystal@bronyville.me)
L459[23:16:21] <dequbed> lunar_sam: Expanding on asie's answer: Servo was really always meant as an experimental engine to test stuff and it became really obvious really quickly that it could not replace gecko with the people at hand in the time at hand without turning into Netscape Saga part 2. A lot of code was transfered but even more so ideas from the servo project made it upstream piecemeal, a new layout engine, new parsers and so on. And it really shows.
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