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L1[00:12:22] <Klo​nade> izaya
L2[00:12:38] <Izaya> sup
L3[00:13:49] <Klo​nade> i was told that you have implemented a network stack in oc
L4[00:14:15] <Klo​nade> and that i should check it out since i want to learn bout networking and how the internet works in general
L5[00:14:23] <Klo​nade> i dont really know much bout this so
L6[00:14:27] <Klo​nade> @Ariri help
L7[00:19:18] <Ar​iri> what
L8[00:19:45] <Klo​nade> idk you told me about this
L9[00:20:22] <Ar​iri> yea so just ask questions :P
L10[00:20:22] <Ar​iri> that's what the channel is for
L11[00:20:47] <Klo​nade> this is about oc though no?
L12[00:20:56] <Klo​nade> not about general comp sci stuff
L13[00:21:09] <Ar​iri> both
L14[00:21:15] <Ar​iri> it's all the same in the end
L15[00:21:42] <Ar​iri> it's mostly for oc but like we haven't talked about nuclear particle physics or destroying the fabric of space time before :P
L16[00:21:50] <Ar​iri> isn't that right, dequbed? ;3
L17[00:22:26] <Kristo​pher38> inb4 MGR will come in and convert you to GERTi
L18[00:22:41] <Klo​nade> >Ariri: it's mostly for oc but like we haven't talked about nuclear particle physi…
L19[00:22:42] <Klo​nade> so youre saying that talking about quantum mechanics, general relativity, and the never ending pain of existence has definitely never come up in this chat
L20[00:22:56] <Ar​iri> i'm saying it has
L21[00:23:02] <Ar​iri> >Kristopher38: inb4 MGR will come in and convert you to GERTi
L22[00:23:02] <Ar​iri> xd
L23[00:23:31] <Klo​nade> >Ariri: i'm saying it has
L24[00:23:31] <Klo​nade> yeah i was trying to come off as sarcastic as well
L25[00:24:03] <Klo​nade> though i dont believe im sophisticated enough to keep up with people here
L26[00:24:14] <Ar​iri> bonk
L27[00:24:43] <Klo​nade> bonk?
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L29[00:31:08] ⇦ Quits: ThePiGuy24 (~ThePiGuy2@host-92-17-120-50.as13285.net) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L30[01:00:57] ⇨ Joins: Ariri (uid378594@id-378594.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
L31[01:30:22] <Izaya> Klonade: hi yes https://github.com/ShadowKatStudios/OC-Minitel
L32[01:30:52] <Izaya> I wrote most of it while I was doing a networking course at TAFE so I'm not sure how useful it will be for learning tbh
L33[01:38:10] <Amanda> %choose waves or halucinations
L34[01:38:10] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: You *could* do "waves", I guess.
L35[02:14:29] <Amanda> %give MichiBot the receipt for a jpeg of Inari's left eye
L36[02:14:30] * MichiBot accepts the receipt for a jpeg of Inari's left eye and adds it to her inventory
L37[02:17:06] <Amanda> %command add nft No.
L38[02:17:06] <MichiBot> Amanda: Command Added! Don't forget to set help text with %command addhelp!
L39[02:17:53] * Amanda curls up around Elfi, contemplates what to do, zzzmew or play with Vikings
L40[02:18:04] <Izaya> play with Vikings?
L41[02:18:42] <Amanda> Assassin's Creed Valhalla, I gave it a try a few days ago, not sure if I want to play more
L42[02:18:47] <Izaya> ah
L43[02:18:56] <Izaya> thought you might've been playing Valheim
L44[02:21:28] <Amanda> I've heard about it, but it doesn't sound that interesting to me
L45[02:21:44] <Amanda> It's another rust-alike isn't it?
L46[02:21:53] <Izaya> only in the broad strokes
L47[02:23:29] <Izaya> rust is very multiplayer fighting focused, valheim is much more about PvE and progression
L48[02:23:31] <Izaya> and exploration
L49[02:25:01] <Amanda> Ah
L50[02:25:16] <Amanda> Is it playable alone?
L51[02:25:38] <Izaya> yeah, though it gets easier with more people
L52[02:25:52] <Amanda> Ah
L53[02:30:17] <Izaya> if you do pick it up I have a server and could totally play some
L54[02:49:07] * Amanda lays ontop of Elfi, burying her in floof, finishes her waves then zzzmews
L55[03:07:20] <Amanda> Night nerds
L56[03:39:52] ⇦ Quits: lunar_sam (c44a7f2987@jabberfr.org) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
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L59[04:42:51] <lunar_sam> wait
L60[04:42:59] <lunar_sam> Izaya: you took a class on networking?
L61[04:43:09] <Izaya> yup
L62[04:43:23] <lunar_sam> huh
L63[04:43:28] <Izaya> I am a qualified network engineer with no less than three certifications ignoring the fact that they supercede each other
L64[04:43:34] <lunar_sam> lmfao
L65[04:43:37] <lunar_sam> i am not qualified for
L66[04:43:40] <lunar_sam> [checks notes]
L67[04:43:41] <lunar_sam> anything
L68[04:44:00] <Ocawes​ome101> i am a reasonably qualified pianist
L69[04:44:00] <lunar_sam> officially, at least
L70[04:44:17] <lunar_sam> my portfolio says
L71[04:44:18] <lunar_sam> something, i guess
L72[04:44:25] <lunar_sam> too bad nobody looks at those
L73[04:44:41] <lunar_sam> it's all AI bullshit
L74[04:57:34] <Mic​hiyo> Well, I can play Cyberpunk 2077 with everything maxed out at 60+ fps now
L75[05:09:04] ⇨ Joins: flappy (~flappy@91-154-0-54.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
L76[05:27:39] <Va​ur> %tonk
L77[05:27:39] <MichiBot> Blast! Va​ur! You beat your own previous record of <0 (By 6 hours, 16 minutes and 37 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L78[05:27:40] <MichiBot> Vaur's new record is 6 hours, 16 minutes and 37 seconds! No points gained for stealing from yourself. (Lost out on 0.00628)
L79[07:23:41] <Forec​aster> >Michiyo: Well, I can play Cyberpunk 2077 with *everything* maxed out at 60+ fps now
L80[07:23:41] <Forec​aster> Send me some of those frames
L81[07:24:38] <Saphire> Nice
L82[07:26:55] <Mic​hiyo> Lol
L83[07:55:02] <Forec​aster> %sip
L84[07:55:02] <MichiBot> You drink a woolly iron potion (New!). Forecaster now has a mullet until they recite the litany against fear.
L85[07:55:15] <Forec​aster> Mullets are the mindkiller..
L86[08:06:02] ⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@2001:16b8:1eeb:4700:fe34:97ff:fea9:75f2)
L87[08:20:34] <Forec​aster> ooh
L88[08:20:35] <Forec​aster> https://tinyurl.com/y8q8d86h
L89[08:38:19] <Ar​iri> @Klonade https://discord.com/channels/125649403162656768/125649403162656768/941506419176390676
L90[09:12:04] ⇨ Joins: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-6-121.dynamic.as20676.net)
L91[09:12:04] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
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L93[09:33:37] <Klo​nade> >Izaya: Klonade: hi yes https://github.com/ShadowKatStudios/OC-Minitel
L94[09:33:37] <Klo​nade> thank you izaya
L95[09:34:21] <Klo​nade> >Izaya: I wrote most of it while I was doing a networking course at TAFE so I'm no…
L96[09:34:21] <Klo​nade> well, having an implementation on a network stack alongside trying to learn about the OSI model cant hurt
L97[09:34:24] <Klo​nade> and it might help
L98[09:34:26] <Klo​nade> so i appreciate it
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L101[11:22:51] <Va​ur> %sip
L102[11:22:52] <MichiBot> You drink a boiling violet potion (New!). The potion contained a computer virus! But Vaur's anti-virus routines destroy it.
L103[11:31:04] ⇦ Quits: Ariri (uid378594@id-378594.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
L104[12:10:43] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@2001:16b8:1eeb:4700:fe34:97ff:fea9:75f2) (Ping timeout: 192 seconds)
L105[12:10:53] <Va​ur> %tonkout
L106[12:10:54] <MichiBot> Fopdoodle! Va​ur! You beat your own previous record of 6 hours, 16 minutes and 37 seconds (By 26 minutes and 36 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L107[12:10:55] <MichiBot> Va​ur has tonked out! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.006 tonk points! plus 0.01 bonus points for consecutive hours! Current score: 0.44575432, Position #1
L108[12:25:31] <Wat​tana> Is this a boolean cast? Code Block pastebined https://paste.pc-logix.com/xajimazute
L109[12:26:35] <Wat​tana> specifically the `not not val` part
L110[12:36:25] <Izaya> is there a mod or similar that will make minecraft only play music that was in the game during beta?
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L113[13:31:38] <Forec​aster> %lua not not "soup"
L114[13:31:39] <MichiBot> true
L115[13:31:52] <Forec​aster> %lua not not nil
L116[13:31:52] <MichiBot> false
L117[13:35:35] <ink​oate> This might be relevant for some folks in this channel... https://www.doulos.com/partner-webinars/managing-devices-with-linux-device-drivers-risc-v/?pk_campaign=mcptw
L118[13:35:52] <ink​oate> (RISC-V specific, if you didn't notice that part of the URL)
L119[13:48:21] <Kristo​pher38> >Wattana: specifically the `not not val` part
L120[13:48:21] <Kristo​pher38> yeah, one way to make a boolean cast
L121[13:55:07] <Amanda> Elfi~ Halp, there's a bunch of birbs chirping for dominance in my back porch
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L123[14:15:55] ⇦ Quits: kikoabdou (~kikoabdou@105.99.34.28) (Client Quit)
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L127[14:27:54] <dequbed> @Ariri what no this is a good ~~christian~~ only oc related channel none of your wibbly wobbly timey wimey fabric destruction!
L128[14:33:21] <dequbed> @inkoate device drivers aren't architecture specific though
L129[14:34:10] <ink​oate> @dequbed Yeah, no idea what the difference they're going for there is.
L130[14:34:30] <dequbed> There isn't any
L131[14:34:40] <dequbed> It's a sales event for their SoC which happens to be RISC-V
L132[14:35:11] <dequbed> i.e. the PolarFire thingy
L133[14:36:02] <dequbed> Doesn't mean it'll be a bad webinar mind you, just like Cisco Certifications *do* teach you a lot about general networking but are mostly about being able to manage Cisco hardware.
L134[14:39:59] <dequbed> @Klonade also random sidenote but if you want to learn networking inside OC, OC2 does let you actually do networking "like the big guys", the literal second thing we did with it was build an OSPF routing fabric and establish an Internet.
L135[14:43:25] <Ar​iri> >dequbed: <@335186179521642498> what no this is a good ~~christian~~ only oc relat…
L136[14:43:26] <Ar​iri> Fu fu fu~
L137[14:46:08] <Forec​aster> It's actually against the law to talk about OC here
L138[14:46:25] <Forec​aster> everyone here is wanted in 48 countries
L139[14:47:15] <dequbed> %pet Ariri
L140[14:47:15] <MichiBot> dequbed is petting Ariri with a tattoo gun loaded with cat scent. Ariri regains 1d6 => 4 hit points! The tattoo gun loaded with cat scent took the red pill and exited the matrix.
L141[14:53:46] <Wat​tana> >Ariri: Fu fu fu~
L142[14:53:46] <Wat​tana> Why does that make me thing about "ara ara" women in anime
L143[15:07:19] <B​ob> >Wattana: Is this a boolean cast? ```lua
L144[15:07:19] <B​ob> if (not not fd.dir) ~= (not not dir) th…
L145[15:07:20] <B​ob> explained it already
L146[15:07:38] <B​ob> seen the same somewhere else
L147[15:08:04] <B​ob> `not not` is a bool cast and `~=` agains't two booleans is XOR
L148[15:20:16] <Forec​aster> %tonk
L149[15:20:17] <MichiBot> Sard! Forec​aster! You beat Va​ur's previous record of <0 (By 3 hours, 9 minutes and 23 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L150[15:20:18] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new record is 3 hours, 9 minutes and 23 seconds! Forecaster also gained 0.00316 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #2. Need 0.10954864 more points to pass Va​ur!
L151[15:45:35] <Wat​tana> decided to suffer and ended up having the hardest hitting adrenaline & dopamine rush https://tinyurl.com/yakwgngy
L152[15:46:01] <Wat​tana> not the best score but damn
L153[16:03:35] ⇦ Quits: LeshaInc (~LeshaInc@sigsegv.ru) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
L154[16:04:09] ⇨ Joins: LeshaInc (~LeshaInc@sigsegv.ru)
L155[16:08:57] <Forec​aster> how the heck are you supposed to tell what type a tank is...
L156[16:09:16] <Forec​aster> there's just IMyGasTank... and it doesn't have a field that says what the tank is...
L157[16:12:42] <Forec​aster> oh
L158[16:12:47] <Forec​aster> `HydrogenTankGroup.GetBlocksOfType(StationHydrogenTanks, x => x.BlockDefinition.SubtypeName.Contains("Hydro"));`
L159[16:13:10] <Forec​aster> why can't they just have a property with the basic name of the block
L160[16:29:09] ⇨ Joins: Hawk777 (~chead@2607:c000:8278:5400:769d:3d41:264:df41)
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L162[17:27:04] <Forec​aster> https://tinyurl.com/ydye7dlh
L163[17:27:18] <Forec​aster> It works, woop
L164[17:27:25] <Forec​aster> now onto the drone HUD finally
L165[19:11:32] <ink​oate> @dequbed Network still flippy floppy for the server?
L166[19:15:26] ⇦ Quits: TPG24 (~ThePiGuy2@host-92-17-120-50.as13285.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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L168[19:53:06] <dequbed> @inkoate legacy IP is broken, otherwise it's fine. MC server insists on using legacy IP for account verification though, so you may get an "auth server down" error if you try logging in.
L169[20:59:45] <Va​ur> %tonk
L170[20:59:45] <MichiBot> Shoot! Va​ur! You beat Forec​aster's previous record of 3 hours, 9 minutes and 23 seconds (By 2 hours, 30 minutes and 5 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L171[20:59:46] <MichiBot> Vaur's new record is 5 hours, 39 minutes and 28 seconds! Vaur also gained 0.01 (0.0025 x 4) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #1.
L172[21:17:07] <B​ob> the shell in OC2 is kinda buggy af
L173[21:17:18] <B​ob> the lua shell just goes bad after a few lines and i cant print big stuff
L174[21:17:23] <B​ob> i wish i could ssh into it remotly lmao
L175[21:17:26] <B​ob> i need to try smtg
L176[21:17:40] <B​ob> should be possible trough the file io card i gues
L177[21:17:41] <B​ob> should be possible trough the file io card i guess [Edited]
L178[21:17:46] <B​ob> we can get magical with pipes
L179[21:33:53] <B​ob> huh https://tinyurl.com/yayhv6yk
L180[21:45:53] ⇦ Quits: Victor_sueca (~Victor_su@190.pool90-165-120.dynamic.orange.es) (Ping timeout: 192 seconds)
L181[22:04:59] <Forec​aster> %sip
L182[22:04:59] <MichiBot> You drink a rather rød potion (New!). A warp zone opens up next to Forecaster. (Use %warp to jump in)
L183[22:05:06] <Forec​aster> %warp
L184[22:05:06] <MichiBot> You end up in a dimension populated by unicorn boys.
L185[22:05:12] <Forec​aster> huh
L186[22:08:20] <Va​ur> %sip
L187[22:08:21] <MichiBot> You drink a gloomy coralcreep potion (New!). Vaur looks up and sees the moon smile at them for a second.
L188[22:26:16] ⇦ Quits: Izaya (~izaya@210.1.218.92) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L189[22:29:11] <Amanda> So what do people use to edit worlds manually outside the game these days? I found a fun bug in InDy: https://github.com/CyclopsMC/IntegratedDynamics/issues/1134
L190[22:29:12] <MichiBot> Title: Crash when trying to automate the drying basin with Integrated Crafting. | Posted by: AmandaCameron | Posted: Fri Feb 11 22:25:13 UTC 2022 | Status: open
L191[22:31:11] ⇨ Joins: Izaya (~izaya@210.1.218.92)
L192[22:33:17] <Ar​iri> %pat dequbed
L193[22:33:18] <MichiBot> Ariri is patting dequbed with right human hand. dequbed regains 1d4 => 2 hit points!
L194[22:34:34] <B​ob> should be about it, time to see if this compiles https://tinyurl.com/ydc7qs2u
L195[22:40:41] <B​ob> the cursor keeps blinking while paused huh https://tinyurl.com/ybwjzxas
L196[22:55:58] <stephan48> dequbed: OSPF on OC2? you are crazy.
L197[23:06:00] <B​ob> literally made the internet ?
L198[23:06:08] <B​ob> i wish i had that much free time to toy with OC2
L199[23:06:45] <B​ob> gotta figure out `mio`
L200[23:10:27] <Forec​aster> hooray green status https://tinyurl.com/y9z4dmrp
L201[23:13:32] <Klo​nade> >dequbed: <@447997781190377484> also random sidenote but if you want to learn networ…
L202[23:13:32] <Klo​nade> i dont know what an OSPF routing fabric is, and im more just trying to understand how networking and the internet work irl, but ariri said that i could start by implementing a network stack in oc
L203[23:31:55] <lunar_sam> speaking of networking
L204[23:32:05] <lunar_sam> tsukinet in oc2 has GOT to happen
L205[23:32:11] <lunar_sam> :)
L206[23:32:18] <Klo​nade> whats tsukinet?
L207[23:40:26] <dequbed> stephan48: what no I'm sane. it's everybody else that's crazy.
L208[23:40:42] * stephan48 nods energically
L209[23:40:58] <Amanda> Elfi~ Halp, either I don't understand 1.18 map NBT, or this mod's saving some data that's causing it to crash on load in an alternate spatial dimension~
L210[23:41:49] <dequbed> stephan48: now do me a favour and hold this crate of dynamite here for a minute please. don't worry they sparks aren't the fuse those are just visual fx. I need to check on my kittens.
L211[23:42:11] * Amanda decides to curl up and halucinate instead of fight MC more tonight
L212[23:42:46] * Amanda reads to Elfi about a bad-ass fairy girl who don't need no mortal form
L213[23:44:04] <dequbed> @Klonade well if your approach to "understand[ing] how networking and the internet work irl" is going to be not wanting to learn about the networking tech that's used in the internet then I can't help you :P
L214[23:46:18] <Klo​nade> >dequbed: <@447997781190377484> well if your approach to "understand[ing] how networ…
L215[23:46:18] <Klo​nade> well, my approach is going to be what people more experienced then me say the best approach in their opinion is
L216[23:46:33] <Klo​nade> i know very little
L217[23:46:39] <M​GR> I think Khan Academy has free courses on things like this
L218[23:46:43] <Klo​nade> and i just want to learn in any way possible
L219[23:46:55] <Klo​nade> >MGR: I think Khan Academy has free courses on things like this
L220[23:46:55] <Klo​nade> has it?
L221[23:46:55] <M​GR> I'd give that website a look, as I've used it in the past
L222[23:47:10] <M​GR> It's not a guarantee, but I think that it might
L223[23:47:12] <dequbed> Writing a network stack will teach you how to write a network stack, but not how networking works and very much not how the internet works. It may have you solve the same problems so you'll maybe learn the whys of some tech, but that doesn't help you if you don't know the whats in the first place. And even in that regard OC is limited, OC has a very small subset of problems compared to the meatspace
L224[23:48:08] <Klo​nade> could you give me some pointers on where to start then? at least, apart from taking a class in college/uni, since i still havent yet decided what my major will be
L225[23:48:18] <Klo​nade> is it to learn some common protocols? the osi model?
L226[23:48:20] <Klo​nade> im not sure myself
L227[23:48:33] <M​GR> The first step is to learn the big picture
L228[23:48:55] <M​GR> Learning the minuteae of various protocols isn't meaningful unless you have something in which to frame the information
L229[23:49:26] <M​GR> I would look at Khan Academy, and if not that, there has to be some decent overview videos on YouTube
L230[23:49:28] <dequbed> My approach was sitting down on the girl that happens to be doing small scale backwater networking like oh, running the internet of Germany, and asking her all the stupid questions. That one may not be feasible for you, I can't tell you that :P
L231[23:50:34] <Klo​nade> >MGR: I would look at Khan Academy, and if not that, there has to be some decent…
L232[23:50:34] <Klo​nade> i will try to search for fundamentals then
L233[23:50:50] <Klo​nade> >dequbed: My approach was sitting down on the girl that happens to be doing small sc…
L234[23:50:51] <Klo​nade> i... dont quite get what you just said
L235[23:52:16] <dequbed> On a more serious note, I already told you. The big guys are using Linux or custom hardware, depending on the scale of pipe they have to service. You can't get into the latter game without some seven figures of investment so I'd recommend going with Linux and software defined networking instead. Look at routing daemons like Bird, Quagga and at routing protocols like BGP, OSPF and friends and try to set them up in a lab environment
L236[23:52:16] <lunar_sam> woohoo
L237[23:52:39] <lunar_sam> SAR is working!
L238[23:52:45] <lunar_sam> even got the checksum part working on the first try
L239[23:53:21] <lunar_sam> also i have to update my xxh64 to fix a bug
L240[23:53:24] <dequbed> Or find somebody in meatspace that can take you on a tour. There's a few different groups that have set up their own virtual networks for fun and profit (and mostly learning) around the world, depending on where you live you may be able to meet some of those.
L241[23:53:25] <Klo​nade> >dequbed: On a more serious note, I already told you. The big guys are using Linux o…
L242[23:53:25] <Klo​nade> i think you think im much more qualified than i am
L243[23:53:33] <dequbed> No I don't.
L244[23:53:39] <dequbed> I think you know fuck all :P
L245[23:53:45] <Klo​nade> then youre correct
L246[23:53:47] <Izaya> install cisco packet tracer
L247[23:53:53] <Klo​nade> >dequbed: On a more serious note, I already told you. The big guys are using Linux o…
L248[23:53:54] <Klo​nade> though i honestly have no idea what youre talking about here
L249[23:53:55] <dequbed> Oh yeah that one is good
L250[23:53:57] <dequbed> What Izaya said
L251[23:54:11] <Izaya> the trial is free and if you're in education you can probably get a license
L252[23:54:22] <lunar_sam> hm
L253[23:54:25] <Klo​nade> thanks for the tip
L254[23:54:25] <Izaya> also lets you play with things more interesting than IP
L255[23:54:26] <lunar_sam> you know what
L256[23:54:54] <lunar_sam> wait a sec, sam is having a Moment(tm)
L257[23:55:28] <dequbed> @Klonade *disregard* the last statement Izaya made. Until you know better there is only IP for you and *nothing* else. You *do not* want to mess with anything that's not IP for now.
L258[23:55:35] <lunar_sam> anyways, now i need to hook up all the code i've made to a good cli and gui frontend
L259[23:56:09] <lunar_sam> hmm, i could improve archive creation, though
L260[23:56:17] <lunar_sam> also add support for appending
L261[23:56:22] <Klo​nade> >dequbed: <@447997781190377484> *disregard* the last statement Izaya made. Until you…
L262[23:56:22] <Klo​nade> roger that
L263[23:56:24] <dequbed> Also, there's GNS3 that's like packet tracer but less hand holding and cheaper https://gns3.com/software
L264[23:56:28] <lunar_sam> it's in the format spec i wrote
L265[23:56:31] <lunar_sam> so
L266[23:56:37] <lunar_sam> %actualshrug
L267[23:56:37] <MichiBot> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
L268[23:56:43] <Klo​nade> >dequbed: Also, there's GNS3 that's like packet tracer but less hand holding and che…
L269[23:56:43] <Klo​nade> thank you
L270[23:57:00] <dequbed> It's the better software *long-term*, but it'll beat you down and then laugh at you short term because if you don't know what you're doing it's less than useless.
L271[23:57:09] <lunar_sam> anyways, i think the roach traps worked
L272[23:57:54] <dequbed> *do* look at it and play with it but don't be discouraged if things don't make sense at first. GNS3 is a professionals' simulator first and a teaching tool not even third.
L273[23:58:16] <Klo​nade> oh i fully expect to mail miserably at first
L274[23:58:19] <Klo​nade> but thats just a part of learning, aint it
L275[23:58:26] <dequbed> No, not necessary
L276[23:58:32] <dequbed> necessarily*
L277[23:59:07] <dequbed> If you have a good course and smart people teaching you then you can get pretty far before failing for the first time and only fail very lightly
L278[23:59:32] <Klo​nade> that sounds like a very optimal environment to be in for learning
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