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L1[00:02:07] <Amanda> %choose idle-science or just halucinate
L2[00:02:07] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Elementary dear Watson, "idle-science" is the obvious choice!
L3[00:18:07] ⇦ Quits: t20kdc (~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)
L4[00:29:04] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-61-249.dynamic.as20676.net) (Ping timeout: 194 seconds)
L5[00:30:17] <Ar​iri> %tell Inari I shrimp for Yagoo https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/iygeg5/poor_yagoo/g6cg2l8/&amp;context=3
L6[00:30:17] <MichiBot> Ar​iri: Inari will be notified of this message when next seen.
L7[00:43:36] ⇨ Joins: prisma (~prisma@2406:e006:4f53:b701:60f1:1390:681e:27e1)
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L9[00:51:04] <Amanda> Ariri: dead link,it seems
L10[00:58:52] <Amanda> ... well then, I should have really read this message sooner
L11[01:01:17] <Amanda> Well, that was not as bad as I thought.
L12[01:02:04] <Amanda> Each of the marked places on the map had a CME hit it https://nc.ddna.co/s/yNRSpB6Fi9f8pi3
L13[01:08:17] <ThePi​Guy24> get corona'd
L14[01:25:04] <Mic​hiyo> Ahh, I see what.. someone... meant by RipCord not liking webhooks
L15[01:25:05] <Mic​hiyo> lol
L16[01:25:27] <Mic​hiyo> All of the webhooks look to come from, I guess the currently logged in user.
L17[01:29:04] ⇨ Joins: Ocawesome101 (~ocawesome@38.65.248.179)
L18[01:29:59] ⇦ Quits: Ocawesome101 (~ocawesome@38.65.248.179) (Client Quit)
L19[01:36:39] ⇦ Quits: Cervator (~Thunderbi@2600:1700:1a25:9160:b885:bce4:6140:13c1) (Quit: Cervator)
L20[01:39:00] ⇨ Joins: Cervator (~Thunderbi@2600:1700:1a25:9160:7df2:c874:f660:7afa)
L21[01:39:30] <Ocawes​ome101> .... what is going on
L22[01:39:43] <Ocawes​ome101> apps are suddenly failing to launch because they "can't find a display"
L23[01:39:47] <Ocawes​ome101> ...i'm running X11
L24[01:40:08] <Ocawes​ome101> well, time to reboot i suppose
L25[01:41:52] <bad at​ vijya> mom
L26[01:41:55] <bad at​ vijya> cancel my plans
L27[01:43:37] <Ocawes​ome101> aaaaaand there, done
L28[01:43:40] <Ocawes​ome101> fixed
L29[01:43:45] <Ocawes​ome101> wtf that was i have no idea
L30[01:55:49] <Bri​anH> @Ocawesome101 you know you could just... ctrl alt backspace
L31[01:55:52] <Bri​anH> and then restart X
L32[01:56:06] <Ocawes​ome101> meh, reboot works as well :P
L33[01:56:13] <Ocawes​ome101> also i didn't think about that :p
L34[01:56:23] <Bri​anH> some linux systems also come with a killall5 command you can use outside of x and then rerun your init
L35[01:57:15] <Bri​anH> though if you use ubufailtu then they disabled ctrl alt backspace because canonical is full of retards who don't understand the difference between easy to use and annoying as shit
L36[01:57:39] ⇨ Joins: SnailDOS (~snaildos@103.228.189.6)
L37[01:57:46] <SnailDOS> Why hello there again.
L38[01:58:10] <SnailDOS> Curious question; When I join is my IP exposed to the public?
L39[01:58:19] <Bri​anH> they literally said: "We're disabling ctrl alt backspace by default because people are pressing it by accident and also people in chat channels are tricking users of Ubuntu into doing it to terminate X" LOL.
L40[01:58:23] <SnailDOS> I saw people leaving and joining irc with IP.
L41[01:58:24] <Bri​anH> what a bunch of retards.
L42[01:58:34] <SnailDOS> LMAO WHAT?
L43[01:58:49] <Bri​anH> SnailDOS Ok. So here's the deal
L44[01:58:55] <Bri​anH> IF I say yes, what is your answer?
L45[01:59:37] <M​GR> Yes, your IP is exposed to the public
L46[01:59:39] <Bri​anH> Because you say IP exposed as if it's a problem
L47[02:00:26] <SnailDOS> As in, User left: 123123.213.123.12.3
L48[02:00:41] <Bri​anH> That's not a valid IP address
L49[02:00:41] <M​GR> Yes, your IP is exposed to the public
L50[02:00:43] <SnailDOS> Obviously that is not a valid IP I am using it as a example.
L51[02:00:48] <Bri​anH> lol
L52[02:00:49] <SnailDOS> Alright then.
L53[02:00:53] <SnailDOS> BRO
L54[02:01:44] <Bri​anH> Every time you go to any website including google, your IP address is exposed to the public
L55[02:02:13] <Bri​anH> The most important thing you need to know, is that "nobody cares" about your IP address.
L56[02:02:28] <Bri​anH> except for russia and china. they love your IP address
L57[02:05:15] <Bri​anH> @SnailDOS The most dangerous people to you are the people that you know in person, you do know that right?
L58[02:05:55] <Bri​anH> Those are the people who can actually really ruin you when it comes to security
L59[02:06:14] <Bri​anH> they are the most likely to
L60[02:06:47] <Amanda> %choose irradiate or back to space drugs?
L61[02:06:47] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Why not both? Okay fine. "irradiate".
L62[02:07:22] <SnailDOS> It's not even that important is it?
L63[02:07:31] <SnailDOS> Like, I mean you can track it
L64[02:07:38] <Bri​anH> Right
L65[02:07:48] <SnailDOS> .. and ddos
L66[02:07:56] <SnailDOS> God dont ddos me
L67[02:08:02] <SnailDOS> Its the school lmao
L68[02:08:04] <Bri​anH> so about that
L69[02:08:13] <SnailDOS> Wait, I need to reconnect wocchat is broken
L70[02:08:18] <Bri​anH> being fearful of that is kind of unrealistic
L71[02:08:26] ⇦ Quits: SnailDOS (~snaildos@103.228.189.6) (Quit: Proudly using WocChat!)
L72[02:08:57] <Bri​anH> not to mention if they are smart which they probably aren't you can mitgate DDoS to a certain limit that is quite significant actually
L73[02:09:16] <Bri​anH> if it doesn't cause problems with the ISP first
L74[02:10:56] ⇨ Joins: SnailDOS (~snaildos@103.228.189.6)
L75[02:11:02] <SnailDOS> Hello I am back.
L76[02:11:14] <SnailDOS> It was glitching cuz I had 2 pcs connected to one screen
L77[02:11:26] <SnailDOS> I didn't notice they where connected LMAO
L78[02:11:27] <Bri​anH> KVM.
L79[02:11:34] <Bri​anH> sounds to me like you need a KVM switch
L80[02:12:31] <SnailDOS> In OC I mean lol
L81[02:13:04] <Bri​anH> By the way I saw your essay the other day
L82[02:14:13] <SnailDOS> ?
L83[02:15:32] <Bri​anH> No comments just saying I saw it
L84[02:16:36] <SnailDOS> What?
L85[02:16:41] <SnailDOS> What do you mean.
L86[02:18:27] <SnailDOS> What essay. ?
L87[02:26:36] <Brisingr​Aerowing> https://v.redd.it/jv2iu9zs2yo51
L88[02:27:42] ⇦ Quits: SnailDOS (~snaildos@103.228.189.6) (Quit: Proudly using WocChat!)
L89[02:35:39] <Ar​iri> Michiyo: That was me I believe, and yeah, Ripcord is rather silly with webhooks, probably bc it uses the API and doesn’t cache much or something along those lines
L90[02:35:39] <Ar​iri> Do tell me if you gets frequent voice disconnects though, it’s an issue for me but honestly better than 30% cpu usage from the normal desktop client
L91[02:37:00] <Ar​iri> Also Reddit servers seem to be wonky this week, people are getting CDN issues within mere hours of me sending a link across regions
L92[02:37:00] <Ar​iri> Not that I forward that many links
L93[03:09:56] <Michiyo> I don't really VC Ariri
L94[03:12:34] <Ariri> Ah, alright
L95[03:36:21] ⇦ Quits: Kasen (~rakiru@has.anyone.really.been.far.even.as.decided.to.use.a.witch.horse) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)
L96[03:38:20] <Amanda> Michiyo didn't venture capital anymore
L97[03:38:31] <Amanda> Doesn't*
L98[03:41:36] <Michiyo> :P
L99[03:44:34] ⇨ Joins: Kasen (~rakiru@has.anyone.really.been.far.even.as.decided.to.use.a.witch.horse)
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L102[04:25:21] <Ar​iri> Michiyo, have you ever had a hdd that was recognized by device management, has a proper driver, but refuses to show up on any software, both on linux and windows? (But was also working before and spontaneously decided not to) http://tinyurl.com/yyqz5rsv
L103[04:25:35] <Ar​iri> Also excuse the picture, SE crashed my graphics driver so screenshots are just black
L104[04:26:31] <Ariri> I cant figure out whats wrong with it at all, tried vms with other OSes, even another machine altogether
L105[04:50:14] <Michiyo> External drive? The USB Controller can still report that it exists, but if the drive is dead it won't report the drive
L106[05:02:39] ⇨ Joins: Kasen (~rakiru@has.anyone.really.been.far.even.as.decided.to.use.a.witch.horse)
L107[05:03:41] <CompanionCube> %tonkout
L108[05:03:41] <MichiBot> Darn it! Compan​ionCube! You beat Ar​iri's previous record of 6 hours, 46 minutes and 40 seconds (By 56 minutes and 23 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L109[05:03:42] <MichiBot> Compan​ionCube has stolen the tonkout! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.007 tonk points! plus 0.006 bonus points for consecutive hours! (Reduced to 50% because stealing) Current score: 1.47143944. Position #2 Need 0.0396264 more points to pass Forec​aster!
L110[05:05:22] <CompanionCube> #1 before month is out, it seems
L111[05:10:34] <Ariri> Darn I forgot about the tonk
L112[05:11:19] <Ariri> Michiyo, before it stopped detecting, I saw no indications it was failing, and it still spins and light up, just no activity
L113[05:15:33] <Ariri> It'd be pretty unlucky if its actually dead, considering its the only known copy of many family photos and this happened at the exact time I was setting up my file server, whose main function was to backup data like this
L114[05:21:53] <Ariri> I guess I'll try TestDisk to recover the stuff
L115[05:28:38] <Sagh​etti> how would i initialize the variable `...`?
L116[05:28:46] <Sagh​etti> the one used for passing in arguments to programs
L117[05:29:10] <Sagh​etti> using `... = {1,2,3}` throws an error
L118[05:29:35] <bad at​ vijya> ???
L119[05:32:11] <Sagh​etti> http://tinyurl.com/y28x395d
L120[05:32:18] <Sagh​etti> the `...` variable is used for storing arguments passed into a program
L121[05:32:31] <Sagh​etti> how would i initialize this variable
L122[05:33:41] <bad at​ vijya> you don't
L123[05:34:12] <Sagh​etti> how does OpenOS do it then?
L124[05:34:34] <bad at​ vijya> loadfile(script)(my, arguments, here)
L125[05:34:49] <Sagh​etti> thanks
L126[05:34:51] <bad at​ vijya> and then `...` is the values of my, arguments, and here
L127[05:40:09] ⇦ Quits: Cervator (~Thunderbi@2600:1700:1a25:9160:7df2:c874:f660:7afa) (Quit: Cervator)
L128[06:22:57] ⇨ Joins: Atlasim (~Atlasim@modemcable201.27-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
L129[06:38:34] ⇦ Quits: Atlasim (~Atlasim@modemcable201.27-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
L130[06:40:00] <Ar​iri> Izaya, https://www.reddit.com/r/Re_Zero/comments/iyqhw6/ocs_oh_youre_approaching_me/
L131[06:51:28] <CompanionCube> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wxqm8y/trump-just-refused-to-commit-to-a-peaceful-transition-of-power ...
L132[07:00:40] ⇦ Quits: glasspelican (~quassel@2607:5300:201:3100::325) (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
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L135[07:11:02] <Ko​dos> %tonk
L136[07:11:03] <MichiBot> Huzzah! Ko​dos! You beat Compan​ionCube's previous record of <0 (By 2 hours, 7 minutes and 21 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L137[07:11:04] <MichiBot> Kodos's new record is 2 hours, 7 minutes and 21 seconds! Kodos also gained 0.00212 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #8. Need 0.02147 more points to pass simo​n816!
L138[07:12:45] ⇨ Joins: CarlenWhite (~CarlenWhi@116.sub-174-202-132.myvzw.com)
L139[07:15:53] <bad at​ vijya> s i g h
L140[08:12:54] ⇦ Quits: Thutmose (~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
L141[09:10:37] ⇦ Quits: hnOsmium0001 (uid453710@192.184.8.103) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
L142[09:13:05] ⇨ Joins: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-28-117.dynamic.as20676.net)
L143[09:13:05] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L144[09:47:41] <Snai​lDOS> THONK
L145[09:47:47] <Forec​aster> %tonkout
L146[09:47:48] <MichiBot> Darn! Forec​aster! You beat Ko​dos's previous record of 2 hours, 7 minutes and 21 seconds (By 29 minutes and 22 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L147[09:47:49] <MichiBot> Forec​aster has stolen the tonkout! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.002 tonk points! plus 0.001 bonus points for consecutive hours! (Reduced to 50% because stealing) Current score: 1.51456584. Position #1
L148[09:47:50] <Snai​lDOS> %tonk
L149[09:47:54] <Snai​lDOS> NANI?
L150[09:48:17] <Forec​aster> Shame
L151[09:50:20] <Snai​lDOS> \>:(
L152[09:53:21] * Izaya laughs manically
L153[09:53:39] <Izaya> Got the SE dedicated server running under WINE
L154[09:53:46] <Izaya> Time for cursed things
L155[09:55:26] <Izaya> Man, I don't miss 10/100 ethernet
L156[09:56:07] <Izaya> Guess I'll have to rack the new SE server
L157[09:57:42] <stephan48> SE?
L158[09:57:47] <Izaya> SpaceEngineers
L159[10:02:40] <stephan48> ah
L160[10:14:31] <Izaya> on the upside, now I no longer have to run an OS unfit for purpose for the SE server
L161[10:14:39] <stephan48> yay
L162[10:14:53] <stephan48> burn it!
L163[10:14:58] <Izaya> don't tempt me
L164[10:17:54] <Forec​aster> aka Spengineers
L165[10:18:38] <Izaya> spengies
L166[10:19:11] <Forec​aster> S'pgeers
L167[10:19:21] <Izaya> https://imgur.com/46A2YRS.png
L168[10:19:44] <Izaya> Torch is having a little bit of an identity crisis, this is definitely Torch on .NET 4.8 on Windows XP 64-bit
L169[10:25:44] <!0§A.​pjals™> or is it
L170[11:17:28] <Forec​aster> %tonk
L171[11:17:28] <MichiBot> Fiddlesticks! Forec​aster! You beat your own previous record of <0 (By 1 hour, 29 minutes and 40 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L172[11:17:29] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new record is 1 hour, 29 minutes and 40 seconds! No points gained for stealing from yourself. (Lost out on 0.00149)
L173[11:53:10] ⇨ Joins: t20kdc (~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net)
L174[12:20:15] ⇦ Quits: bauen1 (~bauen1@ipbcc03b27.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Quit: Lost terminal)
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L179[13:20:48] <S3> Izaya: Using torch I see
L180[13:20:53] <S3> I wish it would run on dotnetcore
L181[14:12:50] ⇦ Quits: Atlasim (~Atlasim@modemcable201.27-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
L182[14:19:52] <Snai​lDOS> In a batch file:
L183[14:19:52] <Snai​lDOS> Code Block pastebined https://paste.pc-logix.com/efitixakok
L184[14:19:52] <Snai​lDOS> Is there a way to achieve this in Lua?
L185[14:20:23] <Ko​dos> %tonk
L186[14:20:23] <MichiBot> Huzzah! Ko​dos! You beat Forec​aster's previous record of 1 hour, 29 minutes and 40 seconds (By 1 hour, 33 minutes and 14 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L187[14:20:24] <MichiBot> Kodos's new record is 3 hours, 2 minutes and 55 seconds! Kodos also gained 0.0031 (0.00155 x 2) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #8. Need 0.01837 more points to pass simo​n816!
L188[14:20:59] <Ko​dos> @SnailDOS while true do print “Echo Starter” end
L189[14:21:18] <Ko​dos> Or whatever you want it to repeat
L190[14:23:13] <Snai​lDOS> no the goto line thing.
L191[14:24:33] <Izaya> Lua has a way to do that, but I assume you've read - or at least heard of - https://homepages.cwi.nl/~storm/teaching/reader/Dijkstra68.pdf ?
L192[14:26:53] <Snai​lDOS> No.
L193[14:26:53] <dequbed> @SnailDOS you would do well to use function / procedure calls instead of goto in 99.9% of the cases - and you are definitely not writing code for the other 0.1%.
L194[14:27:00] <Snai​lDOS> That can be considered harmful.
L195[14:27:10] <Snai​lDOS> Oh that's right! Function exists!
L196[14:27:20] <Snai​lDOS> Example please?
L197[14:27:26] <dequbed> %lua
L198[14:27:29] <dequbed> Aww
L199[14:27:35] <Izaya> %pil
L200[14:27:36] <MichiBot> Iz​aya: https://www.lua.org/pil/contents.html#P1
L201[14:27:44] <Izaya> lots of examples there
L202[14:27:45] <dequbed> That. thanks
L203[14:28:09] <Snai​lDOS> ono
L204[14:28:12] <Snai​lDOS> Not pil
L205[14:28:24] <Snai​lDOS> oh gosh time to search on phone. If that even is a thing.
L206[14:28:43] <dequbed> Just ... just click the link?
L207[14:28:58] <Snai​lDOS> Nvm they have a little content page.
L208[14:29:00] <Snai​lDOS> How nice.
L209[14:29:06] <Snai​lDOS> And am I dreaming. print(8*9, 9/8)
L210[14:29:06] <Snai​lDOS> a = math.sin(3) + math.cos(10)
L211[14:29:07] <Snai​lDOS> print(os.date())
L212[14:29:09] <Izaya> If you're using a braindead language like BASIC, which that paper relates to, investigate stuff like GOSUB. If you're using batch, don't. Powershell exists and is better in every way.
L213[14:29:12] <Snai​lDOS> Is it.. Just that easy..
L214[14:29:18] <Snai​lDOS> Or am I falling a sleep.
L215[14:29:40] <Snai​lDOS> Like. That's surely a joke.
L216[14:30:04] <Izaya> That easy to do what?
L217[14:30:17] <dequbed> Izaya: Do you happen to know if anything mayor changed between 5.0 and .4 in how coroutines work?
L218[14:30:23] <Snai​lDOS> To do everything.
L219[14:30:33] <Snai​lDOS> Don't question. You'll freak when I start programming again.
L220[14:30:39] <Snai​lDOS> I just do it the wired way.
L221[14:30:46] <Izaya> Between 5.1 and 5.4 I haven't observed anything
L222[14:30:51] <Snai​lDOS> No. Not the wired way. It's the wierest way thank you.
L223[14:30:52] <dequbed> Cool thanks
L224[14:30:54] <Izaya> I don't think I've used 5.0
L225[14:31:00] <Snai​lDOS> ...
L226[14:31:06] <Snai​lDOS> Lua versions?
L227[14:31:11] <dequbed> Don't worry about it.
L228[14:31:18] <Snai​lDOS> Is there a major differance in any of them?
L229[14:31:23] <dequbed> Don't worry about it.
L230[14:31:33] <Izaya> dequbed: this kid's mind is gonna explode when he finds out about lambdas
L231[14:31:33] <Snai​lDOS> Alright alright lmao
L232[14:31:42] <Snai​lDOS> So I need to know lua... What?
L233[14:31:45] <Snai​lDOS> Lua 5.3
L234[14:31:48] <Snai​lDOS> I think...
L235[14:32:04] <Izaya> OC supports 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3
L236[14:32:13] <Izaya> Learn 5.3, it's the nicest option
L237[14:32:22] <Snai​lDOS> :) alright.
L238[14:32:26] <Izaya> But the differences are fairly minor
L239[14:32:34] <Snai​lDOS> Alright.
L240[14:32:52] <dequbed> Izaya: *sigh* either that or he'll be the most procedural procedure programmer in his block. I'm not sure which one is worse.
L241[14:33:10] <Izaya> Unless you're specifically interested in integer vs floating point numbers, bitwise operations, or how to abuse the garbage collector, there's really nothing to worry about
L242[14:33:28] <dequbed> Izaya: /FUN FACT/ I found an ... interesting behaviour with GCC's trampolines that you can use to trampoline yourself to /anywhere/. Yay C!
L243[14:33:40] <Izaya> :D
L244[14:34:06] <Izaya> I take it you're bouncing with delight?
L245[14:34:07] <dequbed> I'm not going to call it a bug because it's trampolines in fucking *C*. It's /by design/
L246[14:35:15] <dequbed> Izaya: Nah I just ended fucking up my stack severely, longjmp'ing into a completely unrelated part of "code" which was actually embedded data and just went "OH so *THAT'S* why that is crashing.
L247[14:35:17] <dequbed> "
L248[14:35:26] <Izaya> :D
L249[14:35:31] <Snai​lDOS> C. C# c+ c++.... Are these worth learning.
L250[14:35:37] <dequbed> Yes Yes no yes.
L251[14:35:42] <dequbed> Mainly because there is no C+.
L252[14:35:43] <Snai​lDOS> You compile these into executables.
L253[14:35:53] <dequbed> You can. SOmetimes. Maybe.
L254[14:35:54] <Snai​lDOS> I thought there was.
L255[14:35:56] <dequbed> Not always though.
L256[14:36:02] <Snai​lDOS> Mostly.
L257[14:36:04] <Snai​lDOS> And lua?
L258[14:36:06] <dequbed> Yes.
L259[14:36:09] <Snai​lDOS> Can you make apps with lua?
L260[14:36:15] <dequbed> yes.
L261[14:36:16] <Snai​lDOS> into executables?
L262[14:36:20] <dequbed> yes.
L263[14:36:46] <Snai​lDOS> the more I here about this shit the more I relize what a dumbass I am for pushing this away from me.
L264[14:36:59] <Snai​lDOS> Holidays are towmorrow. Thank the darn frick.
L265[14:37:14] <Snai​lDOS> Only need to do a couple of essays.
L266[14:37:19] <dequbed> I'm going to make a timew table for "explaining stupid shit to SnailDOS because he doesn't know where to start to google" and tally up just /how/ much money you are costing me. We're up to 60 EUR at this point :D
L267[14:37:22] <Izaya> A friend of mine a few years younger graduated today.
L268[14:37:24] <Snai​lDOS> I'll remeber I'll said that.
L269[14:37:43] <Izaya> Wonder how hard he bombed his HSC
L270[14:37:44] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao
L271[14:37:53] <Snai​lDOS> And pil is the best to learn?
L272[14:37:57] <Snai​lDOS> And oc docs?
L273[14:37:58] <dequbed> For you? yes.
L274[14:38:00] <dequbed> No.
L275[14:38:03] <Snai​lDOS> And boom. It just works
L276[14:38:08] <Snai​lDOS> Wdym no
L277[14:38:11] <Snai​lDOS> Wdym for me
L278[14:38:16] <dequbed> OC docs are ... incomplete at best.
L279[14:38:34] <Snai​lDOS> It's not like I want to do compression.. Co... Mm....... Compre... Imma regret this.
L280[14:38:38] <dequbed> @SnailDOS you have about zilch experience with programming in general and even less with Lua. PIL is the right place to start.
L281[14:38:45] <Izaya> The OC docs are much more an API reference than a book on how to program.
L282[14:38:55] <Snai​lDOS> I know Linux cli.
L283[14:38:59] <Snai​lDOS> Most of it.
L284[14:39:01] <Snai​lDOS> I think.
L285[14:39:04] <Snai​lDOS> The basics..
L286[14:39:04] <Izaya> Programming in Lua, on the other hand, is.
L287[14:39:19] <Snai​lDOS> Oh. OK.
L288[14:39:21] <!0§A.​pjals™> your not a linux user if you do not know how to use vim
L289[14:39:23] <Snai​lDOS> Well I want to use the api.
L290[14:39:33] <Izaya> emacs is an acceptable alternative
L291[14:39:34] <dequbed> @"!0§A.​pjals™" no shut it.
L292[14:39:40] <dequbed> Izaya: no shut it
L293[14:39:42] <Snai​lDOS> I know vim. But I do not like it.
L294[14:39:42] <Izaya> web browsers are not an acceptable alternative
L295[14:39:45] <!0§A.​pjals™> emacs is bad
L296[14:39:46] <Snai​lDOS> Nor the layout.
L297[14:39:49] <Snai​lDOS> I use nano
L298[14:39:52] <!0§A.​pjals™> w hat
L299[14:39:54] <Sap​hire> ...
L300[14:39:58] <Snai​lDOS> Oh shit almost shared my location there for a minute.
L301[14:39:58] <Izaya> emacs is good at what it does
L302[14:40:06] <Sap​hire> Please shut the fuck up with your elitism
L303[14:40:17] <Izaya> it's a text-oriented lisp environment
L304[14:40:22] <Sap​hire> The vim vs emacs thing is tired at this point
L305[14:40:25] <Snai​lDOS> ...
L306[14:40:28] <dequbed> If the kid wants to use nano let the kid use nano. it's FINE.
L307[14:40:40] <Snai​lDOS> WHAT'S WRONG WITH NANO
L308[14:40:42] <dequbed> Yall lost the fucking war to VSCode anyway.
L309[14:40:43] <dequbed> NOTHING.
L310[14:40:44] <Sap​hire> All it does is making newbies confused, and makes people nervous and afraid to talk about their editors
L311[14:40:47] <Sap​hire> Nothing at all
L312[14:40:55] <Sap​hire> Nano is perfectly fine editor
L313[14:40:56] <Snai​lDOS> So what the fuck?
L314[14:41:02] <Snai​lDOS> What's good about vim?
L315[14:41:07] <dequbed> it's fast
L316[14:41:09] <Sap​hire> ... Just one guy being toxic, don't worry
L317[14:41:18] <Snai​lDOS> It only puts a whole bunch of ~~~~~~~ on my screen.
L318[14:41:23] <Sap​hire> Basically there's a bit of "culture" of elitism
L319[14:41:25] <Snai​lDOS> And I can't be bothered to learn hot keys.
L320[14:41:30] <Snai​lDOS> Smh.
L321[14:41:32] <dequbed> @SnailDOS Don't worry about it.
L322[14:41:34] <Izaya> Can you exit it, though?
L323[14:41:36] <Snai​lDOS> I won't be using nano anyway.
L324[14:41:44] <Sap​hire> Vim is pretty much all about hotkeys. As is emacs
L325[14:41:59] <Sap​hire> VSCode is honestly pretty popular
L326[14:41:59] <Snai​lDOS> Stop, don't talk about exiting.
L327[14:42:14] <dequbed> Izaya: Yes so can everbody else at this point.
L328[14:42:16] <!0§A.​pjals™> h Mm
L329[14:42:18] <Snai​lDOS> flashback to first time running vim and stressing because I couldn't close it.
L330[14:42:20] <Sap​hire> Want me to give you basic rundown of how to use vim?
L331[14:42:30] <Sap​hire> Holy shit
L332[14:42:36] <Sap​hire> Is that meme actually real?
L333[14:42:46] <Snai​lDOS> First time with vim was my first Linux experience.
L334[14:42:48] <dequbed> Saphire: > :q > nano
L335[14:42:54] <Snai​lDOS> I used parted magic.
L336[14:42:57] <Izaya> I closed the terminal the first time I used vim
L337[14:42:58] <Sap​hire> Oh god
L338[14:43:02] <Sap​hire> You poor soul
L339[14:43:04] <Snai​lDOS> No.
L340[14:43:09] <Sap​hire> Parted is fucking hostile as hell
L341[14:43:09] <Snai​lDOS> It was terminal environment.
L342[14:43:11] <Snai​lDOS> Full cli.
L343[14:43:18] <Snai​lDOS> I wanted to edit something.
L344[14:43:19] <Sap​hire> I'm so sorry for you
L345[14:43:24] <Snai​lDOS> Nano wasnt instakled
L346[14:43:28] <!0§A.​pjals™> vim media player™️ http://tinyurl.com/y5stsdbm
L347[14:43:36] <Izaya> this is a public service announcement that cfdisk is comfy
L348[14:43:38] <Snai​lDOS> People say I never used vim again
L349[14:43:45] <Snai​lDOS> Holy shit is that real?
L350[14:43:50] <Sap​hire> Did it not print that you can quit it?
L351[14:43:57] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao
L352[14:44:03] <Snai​lDOS> No. I don't know the version.
L353[14:44:13] <Snai​lDOS> It just had a whole bunch of ~
L354[14:44:16] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao
L355[14:44:25] <Sap​hire> When you press ctrl+c, it should tell you to type :q
L356[14:44:28] <!0§A.​pjals™> http://tinyurl.com/y535jpd2
L357[14:44:30] <Izaya> https://imgur.com/eLijL26.png
L358[14:44:30] <Snai​lDOS> I remever just typing exit exit exit lmao
L359[14:44:41] <Snai​lDOS> I didn't know ctrl c existed.
L360[14:44:45] <Izaya> there's also the tutorial, which is nice
L361[14:44:45] <dequbed> @Saphire the Ctrl-C message was there since ~2000 BUT it's at the very bottom and not very notieable over /the entire rest/
L362[14:44:45] <Sap​hire> Oh
L363[14:44:57] <Snai​lDOS> Ye. It says how to exit there.
L364[14:44:59] <Snai​lDOS> Didn't for me.
L365[14:45:02] <Sap​hire> ... And some don't know ctrl+c exists
L366[14:45:03] <Snai​lDOS> Strange.
L367[14:45:07] <Sap​hire> I'm guessing you got vi
L368[14:45:09] <Snai​lDOS> Anyway. Nano I prefer.
L369[14:45:13] ⇨ Joins: Cervator (~Thunderbi@2600:1700:1a25:9160:459d:59dd:4cc7:d68d)
L370[14:45:13] <Izaya> might've been busybox vi or similar
L371[14:45:14] <Sap​hire> Or minimal version of vim
L372[14:45:21] <Snai​lDOS> Sounds familier.
L373[14:45:27] <Amanda> M-x buttefly
L374[14:45:28] <Snai​lDOS> Yep. That must be it actually.
L375[14:45:33] <Amanda> butterfly*
L376[14:45:37] <!0§A.​pjals™> i actually use neovim
L377[14:45:38] <!0§A.​pjals™> :P
L378[14:45:41] <dequbed> @Saphire how many distros outside fucking Gentoo actually ship Vi this day and age?
L379[14:45:45] <Snai​lDOS> n a n o
L380[14:45:57] <Izaya> you: vim
L381[14:46:02] <Izaya> me, an intellectual: ced vi
L382[14:46:05] <dequbed> Izaya: NO. STOP.
L383[14:46:09] <Sap​hire> But if you ever get stuck with vi(m) again: press i to input text. If you can't use arrow keys, you'll need to use hjkl. But nobody does that except for some purists :P
L384[14:46:20] <Sap​hire> And :q to exit
L385[14:46:20] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao
L386[14:46:28] <Sap​hire> :w to write, :qw to write and exit
L387[14:46:30] <Snai​lDOS> I'll keep that in mind xd
L388[14:46:34] <Izaya> dequbed: ced stronk
L389[14:46:35] <dequbed> @Saphire vim has an 'easy' mode (shitty name) which is locked to insert mode.
L390[14:46:55] <Izaya> ced is also jank as hell and that's how you know I was involved
L391[14:46:59] <Snai​lDOS> Whiptail is a nice Linux package.
L392[14:47:03] <Snai​lDOS> Anyone heard of it?
L393[14:47:04] <Sap​hire> Oh and esc to exit editing ("insert") mode and back to "normal"
L394[14:47:07] <Sap​hire> Never
L395[14:47:17] <Snai​lDOS> It can make little message boxes.
L396[14:47:20] <Snai​lDOS> In CLI
L397[14:47:36] <Snai​lDOS> My very very very first experience was my first Linux computer.
L398[14:47:45] <Snai​lDOS> It ran nothing but zorin os.
L399[14:47:57] <Snai​lDOS> My God mother gave it to me I assume.
L400[14:48:06] <Snai​lDOS> Anddd I didn't know the password.
L401[14:48:26] <Snai​lDOS> Sooo I looked up a couple of guides and that's when I learnt how to use cli and recovery environment.
L402[14:48:45] <dequbed> @Saphire also elitism. I had this little shit one day, bit older than SnailDOS but /similar/ demeanor that was a) super elitist about /everything/ b) considered me his greatest role model c) was *really* irritated that I rejected elitism and did not tolerate his either.
L403[14:48:50] <Snai​lDOS> And then I rewrote the whole recovery script after I reser the password.
L404[14:48:51] <dequbed> Some people.
L405[14:49:01] <Izaya> me waiting for PsychOS to gain some semblance of sanity: https://cf.mastohost.com/v1/AUTH_91eb37814936490c95da7b85993cc2ff/redrooml/media_attachments/files/104/919/772/537/180/215/original/7b417c7ea7b09854.jpg
L406[14:49:21] <Sap​hire> Re: elitism
L407[14:49:31] <Sap​hire> Lemme link you can amazing article that calls this shit out
L408[14:49:36] <Snai​lDOS> Little shit.. /similar to snaildos/
L409[14:49:42] <Snai​lDOS> Hold up-
L410[14:49:56] <Sap​hire> Fun fact, the response to article?
L411[14:50:14] <Amanda> manbabies crying?
L412[14:50:16] <Sap​hire> It was angry elitists trying to defend their "culture" of shitting on everything else <.<
L413[14:50:19] <Sap​hire> https://blog.aurynn.com/2015/12/16-contempt-culture
L414[14:50:23] <Sap​hire> Pretty much yeah
L415[14:50:37] <Sap​hire> Just try to look for orange site and this link
L416[14:50:42] <dequbed> @saphire PhP iSn'T a REAL lAnGuAgE!
L417[14:50:53] <Sap​hire> Oh god fuck those people
L418[14:51:01] <Sap​hire> ... And especially with php7 being a thing
L419[14:51:30] <Snai​lDOS> AAAAAAAAAAAA PHP
L420[14:51:34] <Sap​hire> Most of php problems that those people all proclaim are actually configuration problems or neglectful hosts... Which might be because of same Viktor
L421[14:51:36] <Sap​hire> *culture
L422[14:51:51] <Snai​lDOS> Oh my God that language hurts me hard.
L423[14:51:54] <dequbed> @Saphire and baggage. So. Much. Baggage.
L424[14:52:07] <dequbed> Like stuff depending on internal state of a RNG.
L425[14:52:08] <Snai​lDOS> The fact that it took 4 hours of setting up on my Apache server. Smh
L426[14:52:21] <Sap​hire> @SnailDOS php is ok. If you have any actual experience with it that actually felt bad, do not use it to bash at people
L427[14:52:27] <Sap​hire> ...4 hours?
L428[14:52:31] <Sap​hire> That's uh, fine?
L429[14:52:45] <Sap​hire> You are not required to just boom, set everything up perfectly
L430[14:52:52] <dequbed> Yeah that's not much worse than average for setting up software you don't know yet.
L431[14:52:53] <Sap​hire> If it takes you "too long", don't worry
L432[14:52:54] <Izaya> that never happens
L433[14:53:01] <Izaya> it never goes together properly
L434[14:53:02] <Snai​lDOS> I repeat. Setting up.
L435[14:53:07] <dequbed> I spent about 6h setting up innd.
L436[14:53:07] <Snai​lDOS> Oh.
L437[14:53:09] <Snai​lDOS> Alright.
L438[14:53:12] <Snai​lDOS> That makes me happy lmao
L439[14:53:18] <Sap​hire> See?
L440[14:53:21] <Izaya> and if you take it apart and put it back together there's always screws left over
L441[14:53:27] <Sap​hire> I suggest to read the article ntw
L442[14:53:28] <Sap​hire> *btw
L443[14:53:45] <Sap​hire> It might explain /why/ you feel anxious about taking too long to set something up
L444[14:53:46] <Snai​lDOS> Something that grew with me since I started computers: troubleshooting.
L445[14:54:10] <dequbed> Izaya: Luckily for me I've become good at not leaving any screws over. It's a bad look if you go "Why do I have a M16 bolt over...?" after reassembling a lathe :p
L446[14:54:14] <Snai​lDOS> I followed guides that ways gave me errors. I always had to work it out myself.
L447[14:54:24] <Izaya> https://social.shadowkat.net/xmpp/upload/igiCv66770z2-zvI/6t58-OaVTs-v2TAtWCVQcQ.jpg
L448[14:54:38] <Sap​hire> Manually setting things up is going to be very easy to mess up, or make it slow
L449[14:54:54] <stephan48> sadly the problem with guides nowdays is that there are millions of it.... and software has changed so much that many are just not that accurate anymore
L450[14:54:57] <Snai​lDOS> Alright then.
L451[14:55:02] <Snai​lDOS> Yep
L452[14:55:04] <Izaya> usually you can rely on distro packages to set stuff up sanely
L453[14:55:05] <Snai​lDOS> So true.
L454[14:55:05] <Sap​hire> There's a reason we have things like docker, ansible, kubernetes, and so on
L455[14:55:15] <Snai​lDOS> I love Docker.
L456[14:55:18] <Snai​lDOS> Docker is my life.
L457[14:55:23] <stephan48> what often helps and what i recommend... filter for stuff from the last 1-2 years, try to research versions they are using and you got
L458[14:55:24] <Sap​hire> Also, stephan48, some of those guides are written very... Biased
L459[14:55:29] <stephan48> yes
L460[14:55:32] <Sap​hire> Yeah, pretty much
L461[14:55:37] <dequbed> @SnailDOS OH. ALSO. About C. DO NOT. I repeat DO NOT learn C from *any* repo I have worked on before clearing it with me, kay?
L462[14:55:49] <stephan48> "only do it that way. all others are bad"
L463[14:55:53] <Snai​lDOS> okay.. Uhm.. Why
L464[14:55:58] <Sap​hire> Also, if someone starts to shout about the beautiful and perfect C and C++ language, run
L465[14:56:03] <Snai​lDOS> Wait ant C
L466[14:56:05] <stephan48> oh whyy no dequbed? every want to see my C stuff! self taught! 100% ;)
L467[14:56:08] <Snai​lDOS> Any C *
L468[14:56:14] <dequbed> stephan48: This is why: https://github.com/dequbed/C
L469[14:56:17] <Izaya> C and dequbed get along like mum and dad :)
L470[14:56:23] <Snai​lDOS> See.
L471[14:56:25] <dequbed> I *love* C!
L472[14:56:29] <dequbed> It's a GREAT langauge!
L473[14:56:32] <Sap​hire> Izaya: that sounds sad :c
L474[14:56:34] <dequbed> Absolutely FUCKING PERFECT
L475[14:56:36] <Izaya> Then why are you holding a tire iron?
L476[14:56:38] <Snai​lDOS> Like all of the Cs
L477[14:56:39] <Sap​hire> Lemme hug you, if you want
L478[14:56:42] <Snai​lDOS> Of just one of the cs
L479[14:56:46] <Snai​lDOS> Fucking so many cs
L480[14:56:51] <Snai​lDOS> Just make one c.
L481[14:56:56] <Sap​hire> Sigh
L482[14:56:56] <Snai​lDOS> Don't need some other C
L483[14:57:01] <dequbed> SnailDOS C and C++. All the other ones are fine. Don't learn C-- though.
L484[14:57:01] <stephan48> looks sane dequbed
L485[14:57:05] <Snai​lDOS> I mean yky so.
L486[14:57:14] <Izaya> Saphire: I went and saw my dad the other day actually
L487[14:57:21] <Snai​lDOS> Alright.
L488[14:57:22] <Izaya> he's unchanged, so that was a waste of time
L489[14:57:26] <Snai​lDOS> I won't learn any but OK.
L490[14:57:26] <dequbed> Izaya: Did you punch him?
L491[14:57:34] <Snai​lDOS> I will only learn lua.
L492[14:57:38] <Izaya> dequbed: not worth the time or effort tbh
L493[14:57:46] <Snai​lDOS> And I kinda wanna try learning js.
L494[14:57:47] <dequbed> point taken
L495[14:57:59] <Snai​lDOS> why
L496[14:58:06] <dequbed> @SnailDOS go ahead. I think Izaya here has a totally sane web framework in lua :P
L497[14:58:23] <stephan48> Perl
L498[14:58:26] <Izaya> He'll die of alcohol poisoning in his caravan eventually, I don't need to do anything
L499[14:58:27] <Snai​lDOS> I was thinking of learning all the Cs.
L500[14:58:28] <dequbed> No, not perl.
L501[14:58:31] <Sap​hire> Izaya: is he shouting about "darn immigrants" who "set everything on fire" and "steal our jobs"?
L502[14:58:32] <stephan48> Perl!
L503[14:58:33] <Snai​lDOS> No not peel please no.
L504[14:58:36] <Izaya> dequbed: at what point did I say sane?
L505[14:58:38] <dequbed> stephan48: No.
L506[14:58:38] <Snai​lDOS> STOP UT
L507[14:58:41] <stephan48> Perl! ;)
L508[14:58:46] <dequbed> No!
L509[14:58:47] <Snai​lDOS> no
L510[14:58:48] <Sap​hire> @SnailDOS pap Please calm down
L511[14:58:49] <Izaya> Nothing I do is sane
L512[14:58:51] <stephan48> whats wrong with you to dislike Perl?
L513[14:59:12] * stephan48 goes back into his corner to write some Perl
L514[14:59:14] <Snai​lDOS> compiling....
L515[14:59:14] <Snai​lDOS> Remaning: 36 hours left.
L516[14:59:15] <Sap​hire> stephan48: I would suggest the same "wrong" that makes people afraid of using or saying they use PHP
L517[14:59:19] <Izaya> Saphire: no he's just a murderous unpleasant individual who can't see how their actions hurt the people around them
L518[14:59:26] <Snai​lDOS> 2 hours in
L519[14:59:26] <Snai​lDOS> ERROR
L520[14:59:32] <Izaya> he doesn't really do the whole politics thing
L521[14:59:42] <Sap​hire> @SnailDOS uhm.. perl is not compilable? It's scripting language..?
L522[14:59:52] <Izaya> No talk about politics or religion at the dinner table!
L523[15:00:00] <Snai​lDOS> thonk
L524[15:00:00] <Amanda> stephan48: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZGGNMfmfpWB-DzWS3Jr-YLcRNRjhp3FKS6v0KELxXK8/preview
L525[15:00:06] <Snai​lDOS> Something I compiled used peel.
L526[15:00:12] <Snai​lDOS> STOP IT NOT PEEL
L527[15:00:15] <Snai​lDOS> It's PERL
L528[15:00:20] <Snai​lDOS> There we go.
L529[15:00:25] <Izaya> turn autocorrect off, and slow down
L530[15:00:37] <Sap​hire> I feel we need a rule: No bashing on languages here
L531[15:00:38] <dequbed> @Saphire Perl is not quite jit-compiled. It's somewhere in the middle
L532[15:00:41] <Snai​lDOS> I think I was building a Web app.
L533[15:00:49] <Snai​lDOS> And it had perl.
L534[15:00:54] <Snai​lDOS> Look I don't even know.
L535[15:00:59] <dequbed> @Saphire No, I disagree. I will bash C and Rust as much as I want kthxbye.
L536[15:01:01] <stephan48> Amanda: uuuhhh too long to quickly read
L537[15:01:06] <Snai​lDOS> I just... Don't like it.
L538[15:01:09] <Snai​lDOS> Oh rust!
L539[15:01:13] <stephan48> will try to do that at home but it looks interesting
L540[15:01:14] <Snai​lDOS> Another thing I want to learn.
L541[15:01:17] <Amanda> stephan48: tl;dr: 98% of ink botches are OCR'd into valid perl
L542[15:01:18] <Izaya> hey
L543[15:01:20] <dequbed> @SnailDOS Don't worry about it .. yet.
L544[15:01:20] <Izaya> hey
L545[15:01:23] <Izaya> I'm most productive in bash
L546[15:01:23] <stephan48> hahaha
L547[15:01:25] <Sap​hire> ...Rust is good, and I really don't get why. Who hurt you? :C
L548[15:01:26] <Izaya> where are your gods now?
L549[15:01:32] <Snai​lDOS> cargo
L550[15:01:34] <stephan48> so true. Amanda
L551[15:01:41] <stephan48> and yes having written all sorts of perl
L552[15:01:53] <Sap​hire> Cargo is good? >.>
L553[15:02:05] <Snai​lDOS> ye
L554[15:02:08] <Snai​lDOS> I think it is.
L555[15:02:15] <Snai​lDOS> Last experience with that was good.
L556[15:02:20] <Izaya> I should like, dust off the rust toolchain
L557[15:02:21] <Sap​hire> If you are against any kind of dependency management, then I sadly don't understand you
L558[15:02:25] <Amanda> it is a quite important part of the global economy
L559[15:02:32] <stephan48> from one liners parsing xml with regex(yes I aim to trigger you all) over multiliners parsing XML with regex to propper multi k Loc projects I can say you can litterally write Perl like shit or quite nice and readable
L560[15:02:34] <Snai​lDOS> And what about everyone's favourite language. That lives in cares and you washing machines.
L561[15:02:34] <dequbed> @Saphire I'm going to bash C and Rust for all the things they actually got wrong. I know both languages *well*, you will never see me bashing the languages for things that aren't an issue.
L562[15:02:35] <Izaya> do crates still depend on the unpackaged nightly builds of the language?
L563[15:02:40] <Snai​lDOS> Your old... Washing machine.
L564[15:02:46] <Snai​lDOS> Introducing.... JAVA!
L565[15:02:59] <Saphire> Java is in every single smart card
L566[15:03:11] <dequbed> Not *every* but *most* certainly.
L567[15:03:14] <Izaya> Many printers run Java.
L568[15:03:17] <stephan48> sim cards :)
L569[15:03:18] ⇦ Quits: Victor_sueca (~Victor_su@90.165.120.190) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L570[15:03:26] <Snai​lDOS> I donut like the Java.
L571[15:03:32] <Saphire> Or an overwhelming majority at least. Which is SIM cards, bank cards, cryptographic storage "smart cards"
L572[15:03:54] <dequbed> @SnailDOS I'm going to claim that you haven't written enough Java to make a qualified statement on that.
L573[15:04:01] <Snai​lDOS> Do you guys like it?
L574[15:04:05] <Snai​lDOS> Is it worth it?
L575[15:04:07] <Izaya> I like the JVM enough but I find the JVM languages unpleasant, as someone who has mostly avoided it
L576[15:04:10] <dequbed> It does its job well.
L577[15:04:12] <Snai​lDOS> No. That's not true. I did a hello world before.
L578[15:04:17] <Saphire> Izaya: actually Rust has been slowly moving towards being stable and not requiring you to run Nightly for anything beyond hello world
L579[15:04:19] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao
L580[15:04:20] <dequbed> Exactly SnailDOS. EXACTLY.
L581[15:04:28] <Snai​lDOS> LMAO
L582[15:04:32] <Izaya> Saphire: that's good to hear
L583[15:04:36] <Saphire> Mostly because non-nightly was a bit less feature rich and people did want those features
L584[15:04:37] <dequbed> Saphire: You're late. That happened a few years ago at this point :P
L585[15:04:38] <Snai​lDOS> But the compiling hurts me.
L586[15:05:06] <Saphire> SnailDOS: did you by any chance try to use C or C++ with Visual Studio?
L587[15:05:06] <dequbed> Java is *very* good with compilation compared to contemporary and even modern language.
L588[15:05:19] <Snai​lDOS> no
L589[15:05:29] <Snai​lDOS> not on old pc
L590[15:05:37] <Izaya> I got really frustrated when I first tried because "Oh, you want to use literally any libraries? Better uninstall the version from your package manager and install this dubious copy that isn't packaged for your distro!"
L591[15:05:38] <Snai​lDOS> Last time I compiled took a hour.
L592[15:05:42] <Snai​lDOS> For some idek.
L593[15:05:57] <dequbed> Saphire: What's the story with C on Windows anyway? Last I checked it was "lol install enough Linux to run gcc"
L594[15:06:20] <Saphire> No idea how it is right now
L595[15:06:20] <Snai​lDOS> cmake
L596[15:06:28] <Izaya> speaking of C* and visual studio and such
L597[15:06:35] <dequbed> Izaya: Oh you mean rustup? Yeah you'll still need rustup for ~everything. But Arch is actually decently up to date.
L598[15:06:46] <Izaya> why do people look at me funny when I say I write stuff for SE in vim?
L599[15:06:48] <Saphire> But let's say that Visual Studio literally made me afraid of compilable languages
L600[15:07:01] <Saphire> It took a few years to get through it c.c
L601[15:07:12] <dequbed> Huh. Well sure I guess its geared towards large projects, but is it really *that* bad?
L602[15:07:22] <Saphire> ...well that was like ten years ago
L603[15:07:28] <Saphire> And I think on XP
L604[15:07:36] <Izaya> I tried it once for KSP modding
L605[15:07:49] <dequbed> Maaan, I used Borland CC on XP from the console. Those were /the days/
L606[15:07:49] <Izaya> I remember it downloading like 100+ GB and all I wanted was a C# compiler
L607[15:07:57] <Saphire> VSCode is pretty darn good, no idea about how modern VisualStudio is like though
L608[15:08:06] <Saphire> Izaya: dotnet core is good
L609[15:08:07] <Izaya> turns out .NET comes with a compiler anyway
L610[15:08:20] <Izaya> shame it's only a quarter of .NET eh?
L611[15:08:34] <Saphire> ...you mean the parts that matter except for windows specific things?
L612[15:08:39] <dequbed> Saphire: Who's this general and why does he need this much protection and why is it ALWAYS FAULTY?!
L613[15:08:41] <Saphire> Perfect for say, running a server on linux
L614[15:08:52] <Izaya> the parts everything for .NET uses? yeah
L615[15:09:07] <Saphire> Hm
L616[15:09:16] <Saphire> Yeah, you have a point
L617[15:09:28] <Izaya> like don't get me wrong the CLR is neat and all
L618[15:09:33] <Saphire> I am using dotnet core in context of CLI and server apps, and for me it's pretty fine
L619[15:09:39] <Izaya> but .NET core is gimped compared to the windows version
L620[15:09:50] <dequbed> Xamarin works too if you design it to run on .netcore.
L621[15:10:08] <Izaya> it doesn't really help with running anything but server applications
L622[15:10:23] <dequbed> Apparently even on Linux with GTK but I haven't checked in with the gui guys in my team so I can't tell how well it actually works.
L623[15:10:40] <Izaya> or CLI utils, I guess, but I don't think I've ever encountered CLI utils that I know are written in a CLR language
L624[15:10:52] <dequbed> unicodehax
L625[15:10:58] * Saphire highfives dequbed for using dotnet on work?
L626[15:11:08] <dequbed> Saphire: *I* don't. *I* write Rust :D
L627[15:11:13] <Saphire> Ooh
L628[15:11:33] <Izaya> Saphire: allow me to bitch at you about how everything in C# has a name a mile long and every verb requires 20 adverbs
L629[15:11:35] <dequbed> The *Client* is in C# though because common codebase for Android/iOS/Winderps/Luunix/macOS
L630[15:11:36] <Saphire> ...what would you say to my idea of wanting to write a keyboard firmwire in Rust for a RISC-V microcontroller
L631[15:11:40] <Izaya> it's infuriating
L632[15:11:47] <Izaya> thank you for listening to my TED talk
L633[15:12:07] <Saphire> Izaya: that's... not quite a valid complaint, though I can get the frustration.
L634[15:12:19] <dequbed> Saphire: Rust on RISC-V bad. But otherwise go for it. If I were you I'd do ARM or AVR because I know the guys that write the HAL's for most chips doing AVR and ARM in Rust.
L635[15:12:22] <Saphire> That sounds like a not properly set up enviroment and lack of any autocomplete
L636[15:12:32] <Izaya> lack of autocomplete is intentional
L637[15:12:34] <Izaya> I can't stand it
L638[15:12:39] ⇦ Quits: feldim2425 (~feldim242@178-191-250-189.adsl.highway.telekom.at) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L639[15:12:41] <Saphire> ...I am sorry for you then
L640[15:12:50] <Izaya> I'm not a programmer so it's all g
L641[15:13:01] * Saphire patpats
L642[15:13:02] <dequbed> > Izaya > Not a programmer
L643[15:13:11] <Saphire> You are totally a programmer I think
L644[15:13:15] <Izaya> dequbed: I hit things with rocks until they either start or stop moving
L645[15:13:21] <dequbed> Izaya: See? Programmer.
L646[15:13:27] <Izaya> ... Shit.
L647[15:13:43] <Saphire> Izaya: that sounds like programmer, but with poor self-esteem :P
L648[15:13:49] <Izaya> Saphire: I am a qualified network administrator please don't bring the IDEs any closer
L649[15:13:54] ⇨ Joins: Victor_sueca (~Victor_su@90.165.120.190)
L650[15:13:57] <dequbed> I do that too - but the rocks are made from steel and the things moving weigh several tons :P
L651[15:14:11] * Saphire puts a cucumb- an IDE next to Izaya
L652[15:14:19] <Snai​lDOS> o
L653[15:14:20] <Saphire> Wonder if he'll jump away like a cat
L654[15:14:27] <Snai​lDOS> lmao
L655[15:14:29] <dequbed> Yes yes he will
L656[15:14:37] * Izaya turns monochrome in horror
L657[15:14:50] * dequbed empties a pink paint bucket over Izaya
L658[15:14:53] * Saphire pokes the monochromatic Izaya, potentially stone
L659[15:15:16] <dequbed> Izaya, but HOT PINK.
L660[15:15:18] <Izaya> Always wondered how they made those painted statues
L661[15:15:24] <Saphire> Or wait, is it like those manga panels where everything is pure black and white?
L662[15:15:30] <Saphire> Like, "gasp"
L663[15:15:49] <Izaya> Saphire: was going for https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ColorFailure
L664[15:16:49] <Saphire> Ah ^^
L665[15:17:13] <dequbed> Ariri: Oh also also a Song for you: https://youtu.be/gXzMD065HEk
L666[15:17:15] <MichiBot> GLORYHAMMER - Universe On Fire (Official Lyric Video) | Napalm Records | length: 4m 7s | Likes: 52,566 Dislikes: 1,401 Views: 8,588,045 | by Napalm Records | Published On 8/8/2015
L667[15:17:45] <M​GR> That band is good
L668[15:17:53] <Saphire> dequbed: also, why riscv rust bad? O.o
L669[15:18:29] <Saphire> And uhm. I sadly have a bit of a bias against AVR >.< It feels outdated, and partially propaganda about how it's bad from some people that I sadly ate up
L670[15:18:41] <dequbed> Saphire: No good support yet. Compared to ARM, AVR, POWER, x86 etc. You'll have to write everything by hand or bind to the - last I checked written only in C - existing abstractions.
L671[15:18:48] <Saphire> ...and general "oh god why do you call everything DIY an "arduino project""
L672[15:18:50] <Izaya> I got a cute little ESP32 dev board in the mail
L673[15:19:01] <Izaya> I wanna try making a chorded keyboard
L674[15:19:12] <Saphire> Uh, I saw a full HAL for a risc-v MCU that I have
L675[15:19:16] <dequbed> Saphire: Can I suggest to you an STM32? If you *do* go for that please poke me I wanna help and use for my next keyboard :3
L676[15:19:28] <Saphire> And even compiled things to it and flashed and it ran
L677[15:19:30] <dequbed> Saphire: Huh! In that case my information *is* outdated!
L678[15:19:31] <Saphire> And I just
L679[15:19:34] <dequbed> Disregard me then
L680[15:19:38] <Saphire> I could NOT compile anything in C for it
L681[15:19:47] <Saphire> It just.. didn't work?
L682[15:19:59] <dequbed> Which MCU do you have?
L683[15:20:20] <Saphire> I was poking correct registers (raw because I am a masochist and wanted to explore it myself), but it just nope, nothing
L684[15:20:25] <Saphire> And uh, gd32vf103
L685[15:20:35] <Saphire> Basically a STM32F103 clone, but riscv
L686[15:21:02] <dequbed> Saphire: Hrm, no native USB?
L687[15:21:05] <Saphire> 5$/pop, with an oled screen
L688[15:21:11] <Saphire> Oh, there is native USB :3
L689[15:21:21] <Izaya> that reminds me, https://nitter.net/ShaktiProcessor/status/1308634777432461314#m
L690[15:21:21] <Saphire> You can even use built-in USB DFU to flash it up
L691[15:21:31] <dequbed> Saphire: Gigadevices says no
L692[15:21:44] <Saphire> Uhh, wut?
L693[15:21:55] <dequbed> Lemme skim the datasheet real quick though.
L694[15:22:05] <Saphire> I have it right in front of me, with an USB-C port, and it has a bootloader that supports USB just fine
L695[15:22:15] <dequbed> Maybe a bridge chip?
L696[15:22:20] <Saphire> (though it fails to flash with normal DFU because they messed up read/write sized for pages)
L697[15:22:22] <Saphire> Uh..?
L698[15:22:42] <dequbed> Datashit is downloading, please hold for a minute :)
L699[15:23:01] <Saphire> I can drop you a link for it if it will take more than 5 minutes? :P
L700[15:23:11] <Saphire> Their servers are slow and a friend kinda gave up downloading it
L701[15:23:15] <dequbed> Apparently it does. gd32mcu are sloooooooow.
L702[15:23:28] <t20kdc> dequbed: The tooling around AVR makes AVR quite usable, but it has massive issues like "FLASH is in a separate memory"...
L703[15:23:29] <dequbed> Ugh. Link pls? <3
L704[15:23:42] <dequbed> t20kdc: Don't @me about AVR kthxbye.
L705[15:23:51] <t20kdc> ah, sorry
L706[15:23:53] <Izaya> harvard architecture is one hell of a drug
L707[15:24:12] <Saphire> https://saphi.re/GD32VF103_User_Manual_EN_V1.2.pdf
L708[15:24:12] <dequbed> t20kdc: As long as there are still rockets controlled by space-rated AVR I am not going to comment :)
L709[15:24:32] <dequbed> Saphire: thank you <3
L710[15:24:42] <Saphire> t20kdc: most microcontroller have it that way I think?
L711[15:24:42] <Snai​lDOS> So.
L712[15:24:46] <t20kdc> to be clear, with the tooling around AVR, AVR is a good architecture generally unless you want to port code from anything outside AVR to AVR or vice-versa
L713[15:24:49] <Snai​lDOS> About the kottnenoe thung
L714[15:24:58] <Snai​lDOS> T20kdc did you make it?
L715[15:25:03] <Snai​lDOS> Kitten neo os.
L716[15:25:05] <Saphire> It's a bit difficult to have everything in RAM, have big enough RAM to fit your entire flash to load it up, and then also manage memory fine
L717[15:25:10] <Saphire> I dunno though
L718[15:25:15] <Snai​lDOS> or whatever its called I can't remeber smh.
L719[15:25:18] <Izaya> I think it's time for me to go to bed
L720[15:25:19] <Saphire> ...actually are risc-v harvard?
L721[15:25:21] <t20kdc> @SnailDOS: : I did make KittenOS NEO, yes
L722[15:25:37] <Snai​lDOS> Alright. I wanted to say.... It's very cool :p
L723[15:25:42] <Snai​lDOS> Is it all your libraries?
L724[15:25:43] <t20kdc> Saphire: RISC-V is single-memory
L725[15:25:54] <Snai​lDOS> Not all. But most I mean..?
L726[15:26:08] <Saphire> t20kdc: whew
L727[15:26:10] <dequbed> Saphire: You *are* right, the USB is exactly where it should be. They just .. don't mention it on they splash page?! Anyway, Ima get myself one of those :3
L728[15:26:27] <Saphire> dequbed: check out sipeed longan nano
L729[15:26:29] <t20kdc> @SnailDOS: Some programs available in CLAW were not written by me, their authors should be described in the documentation files for those packages
L730[15:26:34] <Saphire> 5$, got an oled screen
L731[15:26:42] <Izaya> good night https://assets.octodon.social/media_attachments/files/104/896/974/094/127/782/original/b48686b413d585f2.jpeg
L732[15:26:44] <Saphire> usb-c and jtag pins out
L733[15:26:49] <Snai​lDOS> Cool. Are you going to keep updating it?
L734[15:26:58] <Saphire> Though you will have to solder all the other pins yourself :P
L735[15:27:14] <Saphire> But at that price..
L736[15:27:17] <dequbed> Izaya: sleep well <3
L737[15:27:20] <t20kdc> @SnailDOS: depends on if and when it needs updates
L738[15:27:44] <dequbed> Saphire: I have a Vapour phase oven, I haven't soldered myself in a *while* :p
L739[15:28:00] <Saphire> ...lazy bastard, I want an oven too!
L740[15:28:14] <Saphire> Holy shit
L741[15:28:15] <dequbed> Saphire: Wanna scoot over? The new Pick&Place is installed as well
L742[15:28:18] <Snai​lDOS> Alright. It's pretty cool I must say.
L743[15:28:26] <Saphire> Gosh I wish
L744[15:28:26] <Snai​lDOS> http://tinyurl.com/yyxxqlqu
L745[15:28:31] <Saphire> I am in Russia xD
L746[15:28:34] <Izaya> Saphire: convert a toaster oven
L747[15:28:35] <Snai​lDOS> Can we just appreciate that panic plan?
L748[15:28:44] <Saphire> Izaya: I am aware of this method, yeah c.c
L749[15:28:50] <Izaya> you know
L750[15:28:58] <dequbed> Saphire: So? Russia is not *that* far from Germany.. The right parts of Russia that is :P
L751[15:29:00] <Saphire> It needs some temperature control and I am too lazy to implement it
L752[15:29:00] <Izaya> I don't think I've ever seen a toaster oven in person
L753[15:29:07] <Saphire> dequbed: I am in all the wrong parts
L754[15:29:12] <Saphire> Izaya: same, honestly
L755[15:29:19] <Saphire> Those seem to be very USA unique?
L756[15:29:23] <dequbed> Saphire: Plane it is then
L757[15:29:26] <Izaya> it must be some sort of american joke I'm too worldly to understand
L758[15:29:31] <Saphire> dequbed: give me a visa? :P
L759[15:31:23] <Saphire> Aw, did I spook them away?
L760[15:31:39] <Snai​lDOS> Proberly.
L761[15:32:05] <dequbed> Saphire: No, I was just checking. As Russian citizen you should have a 90-day travel visa with no added issues. Outside the current pandemic at least.
L762[15:32:17] <Saphire> ...oh right, forgot about THAT <.<
L763[15:32:54] <Saphire> Hmph, still want a USA visa... Hopefully can soon enough
L764[15:33:11] <Saphire> Kinda a bit low on money for now and uh, not a good thing for visa v:
L765[15:33:44] <Amanda> %choose demolish the mall?
L766[15:33:45] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Ah... well, I'd say wait an hour.
L767[15:33:52] <Amanda> %remindme 1h demolish the mall
L768[15:33:52] <MichiBot> I'll remind you about "demolish the mall" at 09/24/2020 03:33:52 PM
L769[15:34:51] <Saphire> ...what mall?
L770[15:34:57] <Amanda> in Factorio
L771[15:34:58] <dequbed> Saphire: Do you happen to know if I'll get stopped at the border with a yugoslavian passport? :p
L772[15:35:12] ⇦ Quits: Victor_sueca (~Victor_su@90.165.120.190) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L773[15:35:25] <Izaya> Might want to wait for the US to implode and rebuild before you go there friendo
L774[15:35:55] <Snai​lDOS> http://tinyurl.com/y5qombxg
L775[15:35:58] <Snai​lDOS> a lot
L776[15:36:20] <Saphire> dequbed: uhh? o..o
L777[15:36:24] <Saphire> No idea?
L778[15:36:29] <Saphire> Izaya: yeeeah
L779[15:37:14] <Izaya> This year was cancelled and the US didn't get their class war
L780[15:37:22] <Izaya> Conflicting
L781[15:37:33] <dequbed> Saphire: Given that yugoslavia stopped existing in 1992 and the soviet block has ceased to be relevant for entry requirements I would at least hope so.
L782[15:38:14] <Izaya> Is there a TLD for yugoslavia
L783[15:38:25] <dequbed> .yu
L784[15:38:26] <Saphire> Also, if you ever want to know some kind of cursed thing you can easily hate:
L785[15:38:28] <Saphire> JSONP
L786[15:38:37] <Izaya> neat
L787[15:38:49] <Izaya> I still want a .su domain
L788[15:38:50] <dequbed> Izaya: No you can't register your domain to that, it *is* defunct
L789[15:38:54] <Saphire> Aka "what could go wrong if we just put json as an argument of a JS function, and serve it off"
L790[15:39:18] <Saphire> Izaya: I guess it needs a Russian ID?
L791[15:39:29] <Izaya> Saphire: JSON-LD for additional JSON curse
L792[15:39:40] <Izaya> No I don't think so
L793[15:40:15] <Izaya> It's just a sketchy TLD and people prefer not to associate with .su users
L794[15:40:17] <dequbed> I'm pretty sure .su is defunct as well
L795[15:40:45] <Snai​lDOS> I want .io
L796[15:41:02] <Izaya> You have a student email, get one from github
L797[15:41:17] <dequbed> .. Why.. why does Russia get to administer the .su domain?!
L798[15:41:18] <Saphire> dequbed: through some magic, it did not get shut down
L799[15:41:18] <Snai​lDOS> github.io?
L800[15:41:39] <Saphire> https://education.github.com/pack
L801[15:41:40] <Izaya> Github had a student pack with like
L802[15:41:42] <Izaya> Yeah
L803[15:42:35] <dequbed> > 2 free email accounts with 100 MB free storage > laughs in 2TB email storage.
L804[15:43:35] <Snai​lDOS> can't be bothered.
L805[15:43:50] <Snai​lDOS> I'll just buy a .io
L806[15:44:19] <Snai​lDOS> So you guys like the .io?
L807[15:44:40] <Izaya> Wish I had that sort of money to throw around when I was your age
L808[15:45:06] <Snai​lDOS> your scaring me
L809[15:45:11] <Snai​lDOS> How much money is it
L810[15:45:28] <dequbed> @SnailDOS buy a .io if you care. But don't think it actually gets you anything but an .io domain.
L811[15:45:36] <Saphire> https://www.name.com/partner/github-students first year free for students
L812[15:45:40] ⇨ Joins: Thutmose (~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com)
L813[15:45:54] <dequbed> It doesn't give you bragging rights. Or excludsive access to the any group. It just gives you a domain.
L814[15:46:03] <Saphire> ^
L815[15:46:41] <Saphire> I mean, you can brag about your site but uh. A lot of people in programming circles have one or want to have one.
L816[15:46:41] <Snai​lDOS> I only want a God damn domain lmao
L817[15:46:49] <Saphire> ...and honestly some people just hoard domains
L818[15:46:55] * Saphire coughs coughs innocently
L819[15:47:10] <dequbed> @SnailDOS then go buy a "god damn domain". But don't ask *US* which one to get.
L820[15:47:16] <Amanda> Saphire the domain drgon
L821[15:47:17] <dequbed> There is no difference other than the namne.
L822[15:47:24] <Amanda> dragon*
L823[15:47:34] <Amanda> I swear I usually type better
L824[15:47:36] <Snai​lDOS> Alright then alright lmaoo
L825[15:47:37] <dequbed> Go buy whichever one you like and just DO IT instead of always TALKING ABOUT IT.
L826[15:47:41] <Saphire> Amanda: I have https://saphi.re/ v:
L827[15:47:46] <Snai​lDOS> Last time I checked its only like 15$
L828[15:47:50] <Saphire> A year, yeah
L829[15:47:56] <Saphire> Domains are pretty cheap v:
L830[15:48:20] <Saphire> Just need one time payment which uh yeah. Sometimes not available without income when living with parents
L831[15:48:39] <dequbed> Saphire: inb4 no blog :(
L832[15:48:45] <Saphire> dequbed: nope, sorry
L833[15:48:55] <Saphire> I don't really have anything to write..?
L834[15:48:57] <dequbed> But I can spam you in Telegram :p
L835[15:49:01] <Saphire> Ohno x3
L836[15:50:20] <Izaya> New yuru camp season in january
L837[15:50:24] <Izaya> Get comf
L838[15:50:31] * dequbed gets comf
L839[15:50:36] <dequbed> what's new yuru camp?
L840[15:50:45] <Amanda> comfy anime
L841[15:50:56] <dequbed> ah
L842[15:50:58] * dequbed gets up again
L843[15:51:02] <Izaya> A shame such a winter-y show is coming out in summer but oh well
L844[15:51:16] <Izaya> dequbed: cute girls go camping
L845[15:51:19] <dequbed> Izaya: well if you WOULD JUST COME TO EUROPE ALREADY
L846[15:51:26] <Izaya> It's the confiest
L847[15:51:28] <Saphire> dequbed: seriously though, how to blog halp? x3
L848[15:51:46] <Saphire> I mean would be neat but also like, nothing much I feel like idk
L849[15:52:06] <Saphire> Most of my stuff is "look at this random shiny thing" and it's not even beginner level stuff :C
L850[15:52:50] <Izaya> Write opinions people can dislike you for, like I do
L851[15:54:52] <dequbed> Saphire: Ookay, so what you do: Step 1.) open vim. Step II) /write stuff/. Step 三) Delete all that stuff again because it sounds stoopid. Step 四) Start over. Step Е) .... Step ו) PROFIT?
L852[15:55:01] <Snai​lDOS> I'm going to sleep. All I need to do is survive towmorrow.
L853[15:55:18] <Snai​lDOS> I smell Japanese.
L854[15:55:26] <Saphire> Perv
L855[15:55:34] <Saphire> Stop smelling japanese people...
L856[15:55:40] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao
L857[15:55:42] <Izaya> I got a song for you
L858[15:55:46] <Izaya> hold up
L859[15:55:48] <Snai​lDOS> ono
L860[15:55:50] <Saphire> What's that last symbol btw, dequbed?
L861[15:55:55] <Snai​lDOS> 4
L862[15:56:04] <Snai​lDOS> wait NANI
L863[15:56:05] <Saphire> Also I swear I saw you around before >.>
L864[15:56:09] <Snai​lDOS> I didn't see the lar 2
L865[15:56:14] <Snai​lDOS> Tf is those.
L866[15:56:35] <dequbed> Saphire: Uh that would be Shishi, Hebrew Numeral 6. And yes, I'm an oldie around here :)
L867[15:56:39] <Izaya> this goes out to all the weebs here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZru_TywyME
L868[15:56:39] <MichiBot> The Vapors-Turning Japanese-Official Music Video | length: 3m 41s | Likes: 1,543 Dislikes: 969 Views: 279,887 | by Gavin Matt | Published On 22/3/2015
L869[15:57:20] <Saphire> Yay, I am an oldie here too
L870[15:57:24] <dequbed> Saphire: Problem is Hebrew counting /does not work like that/ at all so it's kinda broken, but tbf, so is cyrillic "numerals"
L871[15:57:39] <Snai​lDOS> why
L872[15:57:50] * Saphire lightly punches Izaya
L873[15:57:53] <Snai​lDOS> ..
L874[15:57:54] <Saphire> Ain't it right buddy
L875[15:57:58] <Snai​lDOS> I can't sleep now.
L876[15:58:04] <Izaya> Remember
L877[15:58:04] <Snai​lDOS> My brain hurts.
L878[15:58:06] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao
L879[15:58:12] <Izaya> You're here forever
L880[15:58:13] <dequbed> Saphire: We know each other from before you changed your name, back when you were being part of that large-scale VPN/network thingy ... cdns? something like that.
L881[15:58:26] <Snai​lDOS> I know.
L882[15:58:40] <Snai​lDOS> It's.. Again not even 12.this is normal.
L883[15:58:52] <Snai​lDOS> I just need to do one more day.
L884[15:58:55] <Snai​lDOS> Hand in the essay.
L885[15:59:04] <Saphire> Ooh right
L886[15:59:08] <Saphire> Yeah, that
L887[15:59:09] <Snai​lDOS> And do some study in the holidays and I should be alright.
L888[15:59:13] <Snai​lDOS> I think.
L889[15:59:24] * Saphire waves trans flag :D
L890[15:59:27] <Snai​lDOS> if I even know where it is.
L891[15:59:49] <Snai​lDOS> My friend sent me some dumbass learning plan that had like 2 sentences of crap lmao
L892[16:00:10] <Snai​lDOS> Well then.
L893[16:00:14] <Snai​lDOS> I'll be here towmorrow.
L894[16:00:22] <Snai​lDOS> Ready to ask more dumbass questions.
L895[16:00:26] <Snai​lDOS> Just keep that in mind.
L896[16:00:27] <dequbed> Great.,
L897[16:00:32] <Snai​lDOS> I'll be here for you all.
L898[16:00:34] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao
L899[16:00:47] <Snai​lDOS> I'll be mostly trying to start lua coding.
L900[16:00:50] <Snai​lDOS> See how that goes.
L901[16:01:03] * dequbed goes to change their client to allow /ignore'ing clients behind corded
L902[16:01:05] <Snai​lDOS> Well then.
L903[16:01:09] <Snai​lDOS> Goodbye all.
L904[16:01:14] <Snai​lDOS> No don't you Dare
L905[16:01:18] <Saphire> Pff
L906[16:01:27] <dequbed> Or WHAT SnailDOS?
L907[16:01:33] <Snai​lDOS> You must help me with increasing my knowledge >:(
L908[16:01:38] <dequbed> Or WHAT SnailDOS?
L909[16:01:38] <Snai​lDOS> Or I'll never learn lmao
L910[16:01:42] <dequbed> Yeah exactly.
L911[16:01:53] <Snai​lDOS> Then I'll be stuffed for life
L912[16:01:58] <dequbed> #NotMyProblem
L913[16:02:02] <Snai​lDOS> Because lua is the language that I should know.
L914[16:02:11] <Snai​lDOS> Wait. Roblox studio uses lua.
L915[16:02:16] <Saphire> ohno
L916[16:02:18] <Saphire> nonono
L917[16:02:21] <Snai​lDOS> Flash back to being a child
L918[16:02:23] <Snai​lDOS> ono
L919[16:02:27] <dequbed> You're still a child.
L920[16:02:31] <Snai​lDOS> Don't bring the child age dbat
L921[16:02:33] <Snai​lDOS> Oh. Nvm.
L922[16:02:46] <Snai​lDOS> As in like 8
L923[16:02:50] <Snai​lDOS> When I played it.
L924[16:02:57] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao roblox studio
L925[16:02:58] <Te​ris> You're still a child
L926[16:03:08] <dequbed> @SnailDOS being a child is about /maturity/ not about your numerical age.
L927[16:03:11] <dequbed> You are still a child.
L928[16:03:18] <dequbed> Now go to bed, childs need a lot of sleep.
L929[16:03:23] <dequbed> children*
L930[16:03:25] <Snai​lDOS> I'll be waking up towmorrow with over 100 messages saying I am a child.
L931[16:03:31] <Snai​lDOS> Why
L932[16:03:55] <dequbed> Because their brain are still developing and you form neural connections differently when you sleep.
L933[16:03:57] <dequbed> Go to bed now.
L934[16:04:07] <Snai​lDOS> Now my friends are texting me some strange anime shows.
L935[16:04:09] <Snai​lDOS> Awsome.
L936[16:04:17] <Snai​lDOS> It's defiantly time for me to get off.
L937[16:04:23] <Snai​lDOS> Well then. Goodbye.
L938[16:06:13] <dequbed> Attention span of a goldfish. Lua Lua lua OH, ANIME .. OH, DISCORD.
L939[16:06:22] <Snai​lDOS> "a young human being below the age of puberty". I will keep posting this. And yes I have successfully passed puberty. Except I think my brain hadn't.
L940[16:06:43] <Te​ris> Let me deliver an addition to that definition for you
L941[16:06:53] <Snai​lDOS> 🤦
L942[16:06:53] <Saphire> I wish I have not passed puberty
L943[16:06:56] <dequbed> @SnailDOS you are thirteen. I do not believe you a second you have "passed" puberty. Now SHUSH.
L944[16:07:01] <Te​ris> a person between birth and puberty or full growth:
L945[16:07:07] <dequbed> Saphire: Makes transitioning much more shit, eh?
L946[16:07:15] <Snai​lDOS> true.
L947[16:07:32] <Amanda> fun fact: Puberty continues making changes well into your 20s, IIRC
L948[16:07:40] <Saphire> dequbed: it's also Russia and I am honestly scared to go through the whole damn "prove you are trans enough"
L949[16:07:40] <dequbed> Amanda: At least
L950[16:07:40] <Amanda> so yes, child
L951[16:07:47] <Saphire> Amanda: can it stop changing my hairline pls
L952[16:07:53] <Saphire> Please
L953[16:08:05] <dequbed> Saphire: Russia is on the level of "Move to better country, transition, move back." Isn't it?
L954[16:08:12] <Snai​lDOS> You wont see 13 year olds with servers... I think... Unless you have a laptop and call it that. Flex not intended.
L955[16:08:16] <Saphire> More or less, unless you have no option
L956[16:08:34] <dequbed> @SnailDOS. No, no I do see those. I was one of those. You're flex will not work here ffs.
L957[16:08:38] <Saphire> @SnailDOS: Go to sleep, please?
L958[16:08:48] <Saphire> And yeah, those are not uncommon
L959[16:08:51] <dequbed> I laid fucking glass fiber in my school when I was 13 now stop that shit kthx.
L960[16:08:53] <Amanda> I was running an old desktop as a homelab when I was like, 14
L961[16:09:05] <Saphire> ...darn now I feel bad :C
L962[16:09:07] <Amanda> An i486 IIRC
L963[16:09:09] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao
L964[16:09:20] <Saphire> dequbed: also darn, glass fiber, nice
L965[16:09:22] <Snai​lDOS> Well. Nothing without my perants credit. They support me too much.
L966[16:09:26] <Snai​lDOS> And I don't even know lua.
L967[16:09:34] <Amanda> had to recompile the world on Gentoo when I installed thinking it was an i686, was wrong, random segvs
L968[16:09:49] <Snai​lDOS> " a child is anyone under the age of 18"
L969[16:09:52] <Snai​lDOS> :(
L970[16:10:02] <Saphire> Sadly I had no money for much of anything :'3
L971[16:10:04] ⇨ Joins: hnOsmium0001 (~uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
L972[16:10:07] <dequbed> @SnailDOS You know what? Remember me going on about that little shit that you are similar to? The only thing you were missing was the elitism. Make goddamn fucking SURE you don't strut around like that anymore it makes me /angry/.
L973[16:10:32] * Amanda beams a plate of dequbed's favourite meal in front of them
L974[16:10:54] <dequbed> Saphire: I was at the right school with the right people at the right moment. I would have never made it as far otherwise. Endless support from all sides and never taking it for granted. If we two switched places back then you would have put in those fibers not me. I'm not special.
L975[16:11:19] * dequbed angrynoms Amanda's food.
L976[16:11:23] <Snai​lDOS> Alright alright lmao.
L977[16:11:34] <Saphire> I somehow managed to get a remote job for full stack on rates that are pretty good even in USA, and I am still sometimes wondering "how the fuck"
L978[16:11:42] <Snai​lDOS> Talking about school. Did you guys ever do sound and lighting? 👀
L979[16:12:17] <Saphire> Problem is that I am uh. Very bad at any kind of prolonged activity >.<
L980[16:12:21] <dequbed> Saphire: Because skilled people are rare to come by. Yet they always undersell themselves. I have a friend of mine who works for less than half of what she's should earn in that position with her knowledge.
L981[16:12:32] <Saphire> Ouch..
L982[16:12:57] <dequbed> So it's not that you managed something exeptional. It's rather expected that somebody skilled is payed well. I think it's much more that you undervalue yourself :)
L983[16:12:59] <B​ob> 👀
L984[16:13:01] <Saphire> Meanwhile if I got a local job, I would be LUCKY to get like, 300-400 USD / month
L985[16:13:28] <dequbed> @SnailDOS You. Bed. Come back after sleep.
L986[16:13:52] <Saphire> ...also I wish I had some use for those extra sharp tweezers
L987[16:14:12] <dequbed> Use them as throwing knifes?
L988[16:14:17] <Saphire> For now however only use is looking at them, talking about them, and poking at how sharp they are
L989[16:14:22] <Snai​lDOS> Why do you want me to go so badly. Does my presence annoy you?
L990[16:14:25] <Saphire> No, that would break them :C
L991[16:15:02] <Saphire> SnailDOS, I would hazard a guess that this might be a possibility. Plus really, good sleep schedule is something you'll be begging for given enough time
L992[16:15:08] <dequbed> @SnailDOS Honestly I'm growing sick of that argument. It has never and will never be your presence. It has always and will always be your /behaviour/g
L993[16:15:16] ⇨ Joins: Inari (~Pinkishu@p4fe7efb9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L994[16:15:22] <Saphire> Ah, heck, don't listen to me pls
L995[16:15:27] <Snai​lDOS> It's a joke.. :)
L996[16:15:33] <dequbed> It's a shit joke.
L997[16:15:33] <Amanda> %splash Inari with mutable orange potion
L998[16:15:34] <MichiBot> You fling a mutable orange potion (New!) that splashes onto Inari. Inari turns into a red pig girl until they have an apple.
L999[16:15:39] <Snai​lDOS> true
L1000[16:15:40] <SquidDev> Saphire: What are sharp tweezers? Just tweezers with thinner ends?
L1001[16:15:44] * dequbed offers an apple to Inari
L1002[16:16:14] <dequbed> Saphire: Oh also, remove hair from annoying places? :P
L1003[16:17:06] <Saphire> dequbed: if only that stuck around
L1004[16:17:20] <Saphire> SquidDev: no, they are literally sharp enough to poke through, well, maybe skin.
L1005[16:17:34] <Saphire> ...wait yeah, "just" thinner ends
L1006[16:17:34] <SquidDev> Oh, yikes. There was me thinking it was a technical term.
L1007[16:17:52] <Saphire> Very thin /MP
L1008[16:17:55] <Saphire> *:P
L1009[16:17:56] <SquidDev> Yeah, not putting anything like that near my eyes.
L1010[16:18:12] * Saphire gives an apple to Inari
L1011[16:18:15] <dequbed> Saphire: If you do it often enough hair grows back thiner and less noticable at least. Worked for me
L1012[16:18:26] <dequbed> %splash Amanda
L1013[16:18:26] <MichiBot> dequbed flings a gloomy cyan potion (New!) that splashes onto Amanda. Amanda gains the ability to talk to bricks until they have a nap.
L1014[16:19:31] <Saphire> dequbed: uhhh. How about literally entire all limbs
L1015[16:19:36] * Amanda convinces the bricks in dequbed's house to jump out so they stub their toe
L1016[16:19:47] <Saphire> %splash dequbed
L1017[16:19:47] <MichiBot> Saphire flings a freezing sapphire potion (New!) that splashes onto dequbed. The potion contained a computer virus! dequbed hears a maniacal laugh as their cursor flips upside down!
L1018[16:19:58] <Saphire> ...
L1019[16:20:00] <dequbed> Saphire: Then waxing or laser therapy. But both of those are comparatively expensive
L1020[16:20:03] <Saphire> Why there's a me potion
L1021[16:20:05] <Snai​lDOS> lmao what?
L1022[16:20:16] <Snai​lDOS> %splash
L1023[16:20:16] <MichiBot> Try %splash <target>[ with <potion>]
L1024[16:20:31] <Snai​lDOS> %splash me
L1025[16:20:32] <MichiBot> SnailDOS flings a stirring ocean potion (New!) that splashes onto me. A pie appears in front of me.
L1026[16:20:35] <Snai​lDOS> Lmao
L1027[16:20:38] <Saphire> ...the child found a text generator, woo
L1028[16:20:40] <dequbed> Also bytheby somebody made an online game for NES by putting a WiFi chip in the cart https://twitter.com/RogerBidon/status/1309109868146679808
L1029[16:20:41] <MichiBot> Thu Sep 24 12:38:09 UTC 2020 @RogerBidon: 🟥A game for the NES?
L1030[16:20:51] <Saphire> Oh neat
L1031[16:21:09] <dequbed> Amanda: rude!
L1032[16:21:12] <Snai​lDOS> That's pretty cool.
L1033[16:21:13] <Saphire> And yeah, the carts are just ROMs, and with enough hacking you can make something that pretends being one
L1034[16:21:25] <dequbed> Saphire: I am well aware :p
L1035[16:21:32] <Saphire> I am guessing an ESP32?
L1036[16:22:08] <dequbed> Saphire: One day I'm going to blog-collect all the weird shit GB had. Multimeter, logic analyzer, flight instruments. All carts on stock hardware.
L1037[16:22:33] <Saphire> Unless foone gets to it first? :P
L1038[16:22:51] <dequbed> I am pretty sure foone did not get to those first.
L1039[16:23:16] <dequbed> And it's going to be really hard finding any of those in the first place.
L1040[16:23:43] <ThePi​Guy24> that reminds me that i need to do cursed stuff like that :p
L1041[16:24:15] <dequbed> Saphire: Also do you have the mechanics for your kb figured out already?
L1042[16:24:24] <Saphire> Nope x3
L1043[16:24:35] <Saphire> ...wait, what mechanics?
L1044[16:25:01] <dequbed> Wanna have mine: https://dequbed.space/projects/Keyboard.jpg ? :P
L1045[16:25:39] <dequbed> Although I'm debating splitting the keypad off into a separate board because I quite like the compact 67 I have
L1046[16:25:52] <Saphire> ...this feels like a weird mirror universe of my 40%
L1047[16:26:02] <Saphire> The part where the plate IS the case
L1048[16:26:32] <ThePi​Guy24> isnt that numpad missing a row?
L1049[16:26:43] <ThePi​Guy24> or column i guess
L1050[16:26:48] <dequbed> Saphire: Makes for some really simple production though. And with 2mm steel with ribs it's sturdy as fuck. 500-pound-shop-gorilla sturdy :P
L1051[16:27:22] <Inari> I hate php-fpm
L1052[16:27:32] <ThePi​Guy24> i hate php :p
L1053[16:27:33] <Saphire> It is pretty darn nice~
L1054[16:27:34] <dequbed> @ThePiGuy24 yep sorta. It's not a full calculator pad only enough for IP which I what I use it for anyway.
L1055[16:27:37] <Saphire> I have uhm
L1056[16:27:43] <Snai​lDOS> You guys thought I was bad? Lmao there is this 12 year old kid in one of the discord severs I am in calling people rude af names. Calling him child relaxes him. Very effective.
L1057[16:27:48] <Saphire> Just off the shelf "Daisy"
L1058[16:27:49] <Inari> PHP itself isn't bad actually
L1059[16:27:57] <Inari> just getting to run well is a pain
L1060[16:27:57] <Inari> :D
L1061[16:28:12] <Inari> Ariri: "something went wrong" sad
L1062[16:28:18] <Saphire> SnailDOS: belittling others to make yourself look better after someone complained about your behaviour, is not a good way to fix that
L1063[16:29:23] <Saphire> wait
L1064[16:29:27] <Saphire> dequbed: where are the arrows
L1065[16:29:52] <Snai​lDOS> Oh god he getting pissed now.
L1066[16:30:02] <dequbed> Saphire: The bottom part of the numpad
L1067[16:30:11] <dequbed> Saphire: Again, this is a draft, I'll change it anyway
L1068[16:30:24] <Saphire> Ooh, hm
L1069[16:30:32] <Saphire> Also yay layers <3
L1070[16:30:56] <Saphire> But I want some... maybe 40%? I don't think I want a 60%, but also not very sure v:
L1071[16:31:31] <Snai​lDOS> Alright I'm done. Time for me to get off. Oh God time went fast. Goodnight ya all!
L1072[16:31:37] <Snai​lDOS> Whatever timezone your in...
L1073[16:31:40] <Saphire> []{} and ;' are kinda pretty needed, but I sorta got used to using those with Fn
L1074[16:31:47] <Snai​lDOS> Gooday..or night.. Idk
L1075[16:31:52] <Saphire> Still takes forever to get = and -
L1076[16:32:54] <dequbed> Saphire: But yeah the general idea is 2mm stainless steel (prob 1.4310) sheet metal, reinforced rips between buttons. Mounting holes at the front for a heel rest but otherwise bare.
L1077[16:33:12] <Amanda> %choose detour for nuclear?
L1078[16:33:12] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: I'd advice against "detour for nuclear?" right now.
L1079[16:33:13] <Saphire> ... Are you building a keyboard or a tank
L1080[16:33:41] <Saphire> But also nice
L1081[16:33:52] <MichiBot> Amanda REMINDER: demolish the mall
L1082[16:34:07] <dequbed> I'll probably add a acrylic cutout with high diffusion so the RBG make nice underglow instead of blinding spots.
L1083[16:34:14] <dequbed> Saphire: ... YES.
L1084[16:34:15] <Saphire> https://aliexpress.com/item/32833430909.html I have this
L1085[16:34:38] <Saphire> And it does have an acrylic thing to put under, but the screws are too short :c
L1086[16:34:48] <dequbed> You see, my keyboards see a LOT of use and I hate flimsy keyboard. I have a 2mm non-reinforced plate in this one and it feels to flimsy.
L1087[16:35:23] <Saphire> ...I uhm. Might have pounded on my poor daisy a few times. She survives just fine so far c.c
L1088[16:36:02] <Saphire> Also I've never noticed how few people ordered it at all
L1089[16:36:27] <dequbed> Also I just want an excuse to get out the big lasercutter and welder for something where I don't actually have to make sure it holds like on a car :P
L1090[16:36:55] <dequbed> Saphire: Also engineering it yourself means the screws are never too short ;)
L1091[16:38:17] <Saphire> Hah
L1092[16:38:35] <Saphire> And pfff.
L1093[16:38:46] <Saphire> ...I wonder how transportable a keyboard like this would be though
L1094[16:38:57] <Saphire> Aaaalao
L1095[16:38:59] <Saphire> *also
L1096[16:39:04] <Saphire> Thoughts on qmk?
L1097[16:39:08] <dequbed> qmk is cool
L1098[16:39:17] <dequbed> it was my plan to go for qmk
L1099[16:39:27] <Saphire> A bit too avr centered though :c
L1100[16:39:44] <dequbed> And it would be heavy but not extremely so. I haven't done the maths but probably slightly <1kg
L1101[16:40:04] <Saphire> They have some really bizarre thing to support stm32
L1102[16:40:20] <dequbed> If you want to go for weight exchange the steel for aluminium. But then I charge 100% extra for the welding! :p
L1103[16:40:22] <Saphire> And the thing they use for that has extra "unofficial" supported controllers
L1104[16:40:32] <Saphire> So it's becoming a stacking doll of just, gah
L1105[16:42:05] <dequbed> ... Huh. I just had an idea for using aluminium without having to weld. But that would potentially lose the advantage of being able to choose your own height.
L1106[16:42:56] <Bri​anH> @Saphire stm32 is great
L1107[16:43:06] <Bri​anH> I have an stm32L476VG DISCO
L1108[16:43:09] <Saphire> Definitely
L1109[16:43:18] <Bri​anH> don't ask how I remember the model of that thing because I last used it in college
L1110[16:43:22] <Saphire> And hell, even an f102 is pretty good
L1111[16:43:40] <Bri​anH> $20 for an 80Mhz ARM thumb microcontroller
L1112[16:43:43] <Saphire> Eh, those names just kinda burn into your brain over time
L1113[16:43:44] <Bri​anH> with SoC features
L1114[16:43:54] <Bri​anH> how could you go wrong?
L1115[16:43:55] <Saphire> *for a full dev kit
L1116[16:44:01] <Bri​anH> heh
L1117[16:44:01] <Saphire> Not just MCU
L1118[16:44:07] <Bri​anH> right
L1119[16:44:13] <Bri​anH> though I don't use the screen
L1120[16:44:15] <Saphire> The MCU is probably like, 8$
L1121[16:44:23] <Saphire> Or 5
L1122[16:44:38] <Bri​anH> when I was taking my arm class, the second lab we had I spent setting up serial
L1123[16:44:41] <Saphire> ...apparently atmegas cost 5$ off like, mouser?
L1124[16:44:46] <Saphire> It's a bit insane tbh
L1125[16:44:52] <Bri​anH> then I looked in the professor's book and fixed all of his mistakes and typoes on how to do iyt
L1126[16:44:56] <Bri​anH> it*
L1127[16:45:00] <Saphire> Aww
L1128[16:45:03] <Saphire> That's sweet
L1129[16:45:23] <Bri​anH> yeah he was like "im giving a quarter to every typo or bug anyone finds in my book"
L1130[16:45:30] <Bri​anH> But I never asked for any money
L1131[16:46:19] <dequbed> Oh god. A party of us just asked how many of the lower 50% of income earn less than the average income. I .. wat
L1132[16:46:43] <Bri​anH> Looks like he released a new book, I HIGHLY recommend it
L1133[16:46:53] <Bri​anH> https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/embedded-systems-with-arm-cortex-m-microcontrollers-in-assembly-language-and-c-yifeng-zhu/1128916299
L1134[16:46:56] <Bri​anH> I have the second editin
L1135[16:46:59] <Bri​anH> edition*
L1136[16:47:04] * Amanda is reminded of the XKCD with black-hat guy managing to prove logic dosn't exist, so he sent it to the C-book guy asking for millions
L1137[16:47:04] <Bri​anH> its a fantastic work
L1138[16:47:23] <Bri​anH> highly recommend to anyone that wants to learn how to use those stm dev kits
L1139[16:48:03] <Bri​anH> OH hey he has a channel too with some of his slides
L1140[16:48:04] <Bri​anH> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY0sQ9hpSR6yZobt1qOv6DA
L1141[16:48:17] <Bri​anH> this is good shit
L1142[16:48:47] <Bri​anH> He;s also kinda funny so I hope his humor made it onto the videos
L1143[16:50:20] <Bri​anH> @Saphire The University of Maine has one of the top Electrical & Computer Engineering departments in the country, it's definitely worth checking out some of that stuff if you're ever interested.
L1144[16:51:03] <Bri​anH> It's also where Chuck Peddle, inventor of the 6502 went for EE
L1145[16:51:57] <Kristo​pher38> @BrianH hello, I think i asked you about that book that you recommended
L1146[16:52:03] <Kristo​pher38> was it called computer architecture?
L1147[16:52:03] <Ariri> Inari: Might have to wait, Reddit's CDN has been all types of wonky
L1148[16:52:34] <Bri​anH> oH i'M SORRY @Kristopher38 I wasn't ignoring you I promise.
L1149[16:52:51] <Saphire> >a quarter per typo
L1150[16:52:53] <Kristo​pher38> lol it's alright
L1151[16:52:54] <Bri​anH> Yeah let me find the book
L1152[16:52:59] <Saphire> I'm sorry but you got ripped off x3
L1153[16:54:02] * Saphire eyes the "professors selling books to students every year" thing
L1154[16:54:51] <Bri​anH> @Enthalpy On my desk in the office, should be a book labeled "Computer Architecture", can you tell me what the author was / ISDN of it?
L1155[16:55:17] <Ariri> dequbed, re. song: ooh, not bad, nice rhythm
L1156[16:56:07] <Bri​anH> @Kristopher38 It's quite an old book but it really goes into lots of fundamentals that are still used today, such as arithmetic pipelining and memory caching, etc.
L1157[16:56:23] <Kristo​pher38> oh that would be really great
L1158[16:56:44] <Kristo​pher38> I wanted to learn how those more advanced stuff works
L1159[16:56:52] <dequbed> @Kristopher38 you don't understand German, do you?
L1160[16:56:56] <Kristo​pher38> I wanted to learn how that more advanced stuff works [Edited]
L1161[16:57:30] <Bri​anH> I started there and went on to other books like superscalar architecture and things. The thing is cpus haven't changed much since the 80s in terms of fundamentals, so it still applies. They have a lot more things now like SIMD and stuff but it's hard to understand all that stuff works without understanding the basic stuff.
L1162[16:57:49] <Kristo​pher38> I've had a bit of german at school but no, I don't sadly
L1163[16:57:57] <Saphire> Honestly most of the stuff in modern cpus is from 70s
L1164[16:58:02] <Saphire> Look at System 360
L1165[16:58:05] <Bri​anH> and with an older book you don't have all of the very complicated parts to discuss that are in the way
L1166[16:58:15] <Bri​anH> Saphire is correct
L1167[16:58:28] <Saphire> I really really want to get a proper printed manual of VM/370 :c
L1168[16:58:31] <Bri​anH> Basically since microcomputers
L1169[16:58:53] <Bri​anH> the change from minicomputers to microcomputing is our biggest change really
L1170[16:59:12] <Bri​anH> and that was a 70s movement
L1171[16:59:31] <Saphire> Uhh
L1172[17:00:40] <Bri​anH> @Saphire btw..
L1173[17:00:40] <Kristo​pher38> huh, interesting
L1174[17:00:58] <Bri​anH> did you know that I work for a telephone company that still uses computers before microcomputing?
L1175[17:00:58] <Kristo​pher38> was system 360 the one that first implemented tomasulo's algorithm, do i remember it right?
L1176[17:01:05] <Bri​anH> for telephone switching
L1177[17:01:13] <Kristo​pher38> woah
L1178[17:01:18] <Bri​anH> these computers even have tape reel support
L1179[17:01:21] <Saphire> BrianH: how's learning cobol?
L1180[17:01:22] <Bri​anH> for like paper tape
L1181[17:01:25] <Bri​anH> hah
L1182[17:01:32] <Saphire> :P
L1183[17:01:35] <Kristo​pher38> damn I wish I worked at a place like that
L1184[17:01:41] <Bri​anH> I have never seen them in person
L1185[17:01:42] <Saphire> And darn, sounds amazing
L1186[17:01:44] <Bri​anH> but they take iup tons of space
L1187[17:01:51] <Kristo​pher38> :(
L1188[17:01:53] <Saphire> Kris: uh, you probably won't x3
L1189[17:02:01] <Saphire> They are amazing from technical point
L1190[17:02:03] <Bri​anH> they have 1MB of ram and 1 cpu, cloned for backup, so its a 2MB / 2 cpu system
L1191[17:02:07] <Saphire> But actually using them today...
L1192[17:02:08] <Bri​anH> if one fails the other takes over
L1193[17:02:13] <Kristo​pher38> yeah, not in my country anyway
L1194[17:02:30] <Saphire> @BrianH: Huh..
L1195[17:02:32] <Bri​anH> the thing is they don't go down
L1196[17:02:45] <Bri​anH> the newer soft switches have tons of problems
L1197[17:02:46] <Saphire> ... So you can replace them with a sufficiently powerful stm32?
L1198[17:03:00] <Bri​anH> you could probably replace them with a basic stamp tbh
L1199[17:03:06] <Saphire> ...a what
L1200[17:03:23] <t20kdc> a BASIC Stamp was a weird pre-programmed microcontroller thing IIRC
L1201[17:03:31] <t20kdc> IIRC
L1202[17:03:40] <Bri​anH> basic stamp? basic stamps were micontroller kits from the 80s and 90s that ran basic
L1203[17:03:47] <Bri​anH> they are like an archaic arduino
L1204[17:03:53] <Bri​anH> I'm sure they still make them
L1205[17:04:00] <dequbed> Okay I think I need to take a hard look at Haskell's scheduler. When I load my CAD program I can't use anything anymore.
L1206[17:04:36] <Bri​anH> I was an 80s kid and I remember my dad offering to buy me a basic stamp in the 90s
L1207[17:04:48] <Bri​anH> but I never did get one
L1208[17:04:57] <Bri​anH> Instead I ran basic on a Tandy coco2
L1209[17:05:40] <Kristo​pher38> how were you supposed to program them?
L1210[17:05:53] <Bri​anH> the basic stamps or the tandy?
L1211[17:05:57] <Kristo​pher38> the basic stamps
L1212[17:06:02] <Kristo​pher38> you had to flash them somehow, right?
L1213[17:06:11] <Bri​anH> you had an adaptor that would transfer it over serial or parallel port usually
L1214[17:06:29] <Bri​anH> I think they were serial
L1215[17:06:34] <Bri​anH> rs232
L1216[17:07:13] <Bri​anH> honestly if I were to make my own microcontroller I'd use a UART too, and just use some sort of serial to usb chip with a direct uart header
L1217[17:07:23] <Bri​anH> usb is a complicated mess
L1218[17:08:16] <Bri​anH> example basic stamp: http://tinyurl.com/y5jfscj6
L1219[17:08:28] <Bri​anH> These ones were nice because they could go onto a breadboard
L1220[17:09:53] <Kristo​pher38> damn, arduinos in the 80s
L1221[17:11:07] <Bri​anH> There was also PIC
L1222[17:11:37] <Kristo​pher38> as in PIC microcontroller?
L1223[17:13:11] <Kristo​pher38> right, I'm reading on the wiki that they've been produced since 1976
L1224[17:13:26] <Bri​anH> @SnailDOS Remember the other day when dequbed mentioned some of us have been programming for a very long time? This is basically what they were talking about. I started programming when if you needed your computer to do something you couldn't usually just go out and buy software most of the time you had to write it yourself. Don't get overwhelmed by us, believe it or not I am very sad that people these days that haven't didn't get the expe
L1225[17:13:26] <Bri​anH> that I had access to.
L1226[17:13:38] <Bri​anH> YEs, @Kristopher38
L1227[17:14:40] <Bri​anH> This is also why it's great to hire new programmers when building a development team, because most of us are set in our ways...
L1228[17:15:22] <Bri​anH> there are some people out there who will only hire X number of experienced developers as it is much better to bring in people newer to the field
L1229[17:21:44] <Kristo​pher38> I wish I lived in the 80s so I would have to write my own software
L1230[17:21:50] <Kristo​pher38> I like the idea, if you couldn't already tell
L1231[17:22:42] <Kristo​pher38> Though I'm also greatful to live here and now since the amount of resources available is unprecedented
L1232[17:24:23] <Saphire> Same
L1233[17:25:16] <Saphire> I am honestly kinda sad how homogenous modern home computing is
L1234[17:29:10] ⇨ Joins: feldim2425 (~feldim242@2002:b2bf:f654:0:f8d4:cab9:9866:d654)
L1235[17:34:14] <Bri​anH> Honestly when I was a kid I thought the future was going to be amazing
L1236[17:34:22] <Bri​anH> so many cool new stuff to do with computers and things
L1237[17:34:28] <Bri​anH> but now I'm like, ok this has gone way too far
L1238[17:35:08] <Bri​anH> It is great to have the resources we have, but software has never been more inefficient
L1239[17:35:32] <ThePi​Guy24> yes
L1240[17:35:40] <Kristo​pher38> ^this
L1241[17:35:57] <ThePi​Guy24> people use increased computing power as an excuse to have unoptimised code
L1242[17:36:15] * Michiyo throws another 64GB of RAM on the fire
L1243[17:36:24] <Michiyo> Hmm? nah... everything is fine
L1244[17:36:26] <Bri​anH> I have put a lot of thought into it over the years and it seems that the horizon where we moved into the problem we have started to occur just about th etime dynamic memory was introducised into the market.
L1245[17:36:49] <Bri​anH> once computers started adopting dynamic memory everywhere is where we started on that path
L1246[17:37:04] <Kristo​pher38> I don't know what else to expect, but I believe that change happened due to market rules
L1247[17:37:08] <Kristo​pher38> to drive development costs down
L1248[17:37:23] <Bri​anH> Memory was significantly cheaper, but it had much higher latency; It was the beginning of when cpu's had to actually wait for memory to arrive instead of arriving before the next clock pulse.
L1249[17:37:40] <Bri​anH> but you could have much more memory in the same package for less $
L1250[17:38:24] <Kristo​pher38> since the less memory management programmer has to do, the more he/she can focus on other things
L1251[17:38:42] <Bri​anH> and if there wasn't enough then you just bought more on the cheap
L1252[17:40:02] <Kristo​pher38> yeah, and parts getting cheaper
L1253[17:40:19] <Bri​anH> Once this happened, programming changed significantly; Suddenly everything was about abstraction. Why reinvent the wheel if you can just use some other library, there's enough ram for it
L1254[17:40:46] <Bri​anH> and now, you can theroretically write a hello world program in Java that will require 1GB of ram
L1255[17:41:11] <Ariri> >It is great to have the resources we have, but software has never been more inefficient
L1256[17:41:16] * Ariri eyes microsoft
L1257[17:41:21] <Bri​anH> lol
L1258[17:41:30] <Bri​anH> Oh yeah and that was the other thing
L1259[17:41:55] <Bri​anH> Bill gates' view on Windows, was that everyone could write their own software for their own computer, with the catch that it would only run on their system
L1260[17:42:08] <Kristo​pher38> From a business point of view there's no need to reinvent the wheel (even if we're the type of people who like to do that)
L1261[17:42:09] <Bri​anH> so we ended up with a LOT more programmers around that time
L1262[17:42:33] <Bri​anH> that was actually a good thing, but it did cause the issue that now there's more shit software
L1263[17:43:32] <Ariri> One of the other big issues is the growing integration of technology into children's lives from a very young age, yet art classes and other ECs are prioritized over making basic knowledge and safe practices on the internet a requirement
L1264[17:43:42] <Bri​anH> right. I like to reinvent the wheel on purpose, but I prefer it as a hobby and I don't really care. Some things I won't, I won't reinvent an XML parser, but I will definitely write my own frameworks to do certain things.
L1265[17:43:49] <Bri​anH> In a professional model that doesn't generally work
L1266[17:43:55] <Bri​anH> Not in 2020
L1267[17:44:37] <Bri​anH> Ariri, EC?
L1268[17:44:48] <Ariri> Extra-curricular
L1269[17:45:03] <Bri​anH> ah
L1270[17:45:11] <Bri​anH> That's a term I haven't heard for years heh
L1271[17:45:30] <Ariri> in this context, the more 'fun' ones could be done away with in place of some common sense classes for a year or two
L1272[17:58:43] <CompanionCube> %tonkouf
L1273[17:58:49] <Forecaster> %tonk
L1274[17:58:49] <MichiBot> Yay! Forec​aster! You beat Ko​dos's previous record of 3 hours, 2 minutes and 55 seconds (By 35 minutes and 30 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L1275[17:58:50] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new record is 3 hours, 38 minutes and 26 seconds! Forecaster also gained 0.00236 (0.00059 x 4) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #1.
L1276[17:59:01] <Ariri> I was going to steal it but thought against it
L1277[17:59:01] <CompanionCube> duck
L1278[17:59:19] <Ariri> No mercy, huh Forecaster
L1279[17:59:31] <Forecaster> I had to take the opportunity
L1280[17:59:37] <Ariri> %actualshrug
L1281[17:59:37] <MichiBot> Ar​iri: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
L1282[18:20:13] <Bri​anH> @Kristopher38 I haven't done it, but @Enthalpy and I were working on using project red to set up a series of live streams for learning digital logic and slowly building individual parts of CPUs to create a working one in the form of an indtruction to computer engineering
L1283[18:20:24] <Bri​anH> if people wanted us to , we could still do that
L1284[18:20:49] <Bri​anH> it would have episodes for doing things like instruction decoding, register design, accumulators...
L1285[18:21:01] <Bri​anH> PLA logic..
L1286[18:27:34] <Bri​anH> we discussed this back in about 2015ish
L1287[18:40:00] <Kristo​pher38> Projectred is quite unwieldy
L1288[18:40:08] <Kristo​pher38> But still better than raw redstone
L1289[19:01:06] <Bri​anH> @Kristopher38
L1290[19:01:14] <Bri​anH> https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Architecture-Single-Parallel-Systems/dp/0130106615
L1291[19:01:18] <Bri​anH> This is it
L1292[19:01:43] <Kristo​pher38> thanks a lot! I'll be sure to read it
L1293[19:01:58] <Bri​anH> its only like $6 so even if its not what you want its worth it
L1294[19:02:56] <Kristo​pher38> if only shipping wasn't $12
L1295[19:03:16] <Bri​anH> holy crap
L1296[19:03:22] <Bri​anH> I didn't see that, I bet you can find a better price
L1297[19:07:56] <Bri​anH> OH yeah! This book talks about an architecture type other than Harvard or van neumann
L1298[19:08:16] <Bri​anH> data flow is an interesting type of architecture, it mentions a little about it
L1299[19:20:50] <Amanda> %choose sit or lay
L1300[19:20:50] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Some "sit" sounds nice
L1301[19:47:24] <dequbed> @Kristopher38 random sidenote but if your into it data flow programming is pretty nice and current implementations blur the line between hardware and software. It's especially common is super-high safety applications, think nuclear reactors. Stuff like PLCs and SCADA software controlled with Step7 or similar is common to find there.
L1302[20:45:11] ⇨ Joins: Atlasim (~Atlasim@modemcable201.27-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
L1303[21:15:22] <Amanda> %ping
L1304[21:15:23] <MichiBot> Ping reply from Ama​nda 0.28s
L1305[21:15:38] <Amanda> Huh, quiet couple of hours
L1306[21:16:19] <Forec​aster> %tonkout
L1307[21:16:19] <MichiBot> I'm sorry Forec​aster, you were not able to beat Forec​aster's record of 3 hours, 38 minutes and 26 seconds this time. 3 hours, 17 minutes and 29 seconds were wasted! Missed by 20 minutes and 56 seconds!
L1308[21:16:27] <Forec​aster> dammit
L1309[21:39:30] <Amanda> Jannet!
L1310[21:41:06] <Amanda> %choose gear up for extermintion or leave it to fate for an automated train to sqush a bug
L1311[21:41:06] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: You'll want to go with "gear up for extermintion".
L1312[21:51:07] <dequbed> Amanda: I mean we don't always have to yell at each other, do we? ;)
L1313[22:01:06] <Amanda> dequbed: I don't remember enough to know if that's a quote from the movie, or what. I just remember that song because of it being constantly referenced in the XKCD irc channel back in the day
L1314[22:03:05] <dequbed> Ariri: While I'm up shitposting you need to listen to this one: https://youtu.be/MCZyA9_BkUA
L1315[22:03:07] <MichiBot> Luis Fonsi - Despacito ft. Daddy Yankee (Squash Cover) | length: 5m 54s | Likes: 7,101 Dislikes: 42 Views: 26,858 | by Pupsi | Published On 23/9/2020
L1316[22:03:26] <Amanda> %choose pizza or figure somehting else out
L1317[22:03:26] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Haven't you always gone with "figure somehting else out"? Hm, maybe not.
L1318[22:03:33] <Amanda> not really, MichiBot
L1319[22:03:46] <dequbed> Amanda: I made some really god Ramen yesterday
L1320[22:03:59] <dequbed> s/god/good/
L1321[22:04:00] <MichiBot> <dequbed> Amanda: I made some really good Ramen yesterday
L1322[22:05:05] <Amanda> damnit dequbed, stop creating holy food! We decided on a god/goddess free run this loop!
L1323[22:06:00] <dequbed> But how else am I supposed to get you your recommended daily intake of immortal soul?!
L1324[22:06:22] <dequbed> Elfi get's *really* pissed if I cook fairies!
L1325[22:06:50] <dequbed> And have you /tried/ getting Dragon eggs in the current economy? q.q
L1326[22:07:19] <Amanda> tch, just use the admin console to reset your hunger levels like the rest of us!
L1327[22:10:10] <Ariri> ./effect saturation @s 99999 :D
L1328[22:10:39] <Ariri> Or replace your cardio system with a reactor, silly
L1329[22:12:31] <dequbed> Ariri: I'm /working/ on adapting that to human physiology. *I'm sorry* but not all of us are nearly-immortal semi-goddesses!
L1330[22:13:39] <Ariri> Hey I'm not Lizzy either, but whoever cloned me did at least one thing right :P
L1331[22:18:17] <Ariri> dequbed, this squash cover is kinda cursed, and Ive seen my fair share of cursed stuff
L1332[22:18:27] <dequbed> Ariri: You're welcome <3
L1333[22:18:39] <Ariri> %bap dequbed
L1334[22:18:39] <MichiBot> Ariri baps dequbed with the Magic Quantum Potato! (25%)!
L1335[22:21:28] <Ariri> dequbed, want a really blursed song?
L1336[22:21:59] <dequbed> Ariri: Nah thanks I have enough anime girls in my timeline already
L1337[22:22:12] <Ariri> Its not an anime song
L1338[22:22:30] <Ariri> https://soundcloud.com/daymanoursavior/the-shelter-behind-the-slaughter
L1339[22:22:38] <Ariri> Ig the original has an amv of it, but thats about it
L1340[22:25:21] <dequbed> > The Shelter Behind the Slaughter
L1341[22:26:13] <Ariri> Its a cursed mash-up of the original song by Porter Robinson called Shelter, but its not bad tbh
L1342[22:26:54] <dequbed> Ariri: I wouldn't even call it cursed just kinda ... directionless electropop?
L1343[22:27:18] <Ariri> If you hear the original, it sounds cursed in comparison
L1344[22:27:30] <Ariri> also the edited cover art doesnt help
L1345[22:27:43] <dequbed> Hm potentially. I know neither of the original songs
L1346[22:29:21] <Ariri> Original for Shelter is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzQ6gRAEoy0; I dont know the other song but I think its in the desc of the mash-up
L1347[22:29:22] <MichiBot> Porter Robinson & Madeon - Shelter (Official Video) (Short Film with A-1 Pictures & Crunchyroll) | length: 6m 7s | Likes: 1,390,963 Dislikes: 12,224 Views: 55,551,998 | by Porter Robinson | Published On 18/10/2016
L1348[22:29:29] <Ariri> Its a pretty song, amv or not
L1349[22:30:23] <dequbed> Ariri: Yeah so it's a pop song mixed with a techno-pop song. directionless electropop, as I said :p
L1350[22:31:36] <Ariri> Thats true too, its just all the music and voices from shelter are distorted in such a way that it's also very strange
L1351[22:32:14] <dequbed> Yeah it's all filtered to shit but c'mon it's pop. Its as deep as a puddle either way
L1352[22:32:38] <dequbed> musically speaking. It gets a bit deeper with the lyrics sometimes.
L1353[22:33:02] <Ariri> I suppose
L1354[22:36:44] <Michiyo> Never assume you've made something fool proof... The universe WILL prove you wrong.
L1355[22:36:46] * Michiyo sighs
L1356[22:38:25] <bad at​ vijya> arch linux with lts kernel
L1357[22:44:02] <Forec​aster> literally anything ever
L1358[22:55:09] ⇦ Quits: t20kdc (~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
L1359[22:55:29] <Forec​aster> %sip
L1360[22:55:29] <MichiBot> You drink a ripe iron potion (New!). The potion contained a computer virus! It just changed Forecaster's background...
L1361[22:55:55] <Forec​aster> But why is a picture of a train from the front?
L1362[22:55:59] <Forec​aster> and why is it getting bigger?
L1363[22:58:06] <bad at​ vijya> http://tinyurl.com/y6nvsasa
L1364[22:58:06] <bad at​ vijya> woohoo
L1365[23:02:15] <Kristo​pher38> i use arch btw
L1366[23:02:29] <bad at​ vijya> got my arch running PE2950 :^)
L1367[23:20:26] <Amanda> Ariri: how're you finding the combo of KOReader + Calibre?
L1368[23:21:43] ⇦ Quits: Atlasim (~Atlasim@modemcable201.27-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
L1369[23:21:47] <Ariri> Amanda, considering how little time I've spent tweaking and automating stuff, the general process of sending books over the network is pretty nice
L1370[23:22:40] <Ariri> Calibre itself could use a bit of work (or just modifying on my part) but overall, pretty simple for books, going to try manga in a bit once I can work out auto-update and conversions for updated chapters
L1371[23:44:53] ⇨ Joins: Atlasim (~Atlasim@modemcable201.27-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
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