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L1[00:45:33] ⇦ Quits: Thutmose (Thutmose!~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
L2[02:28:42] <FeherNeoH> %tonk
L3[02:28:43] <MichiBot> Waesucks! FeherNeoH! You beat CompanionCube's previous record of <0 (By 5 hours, 6 minutes and 39 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L4[02:28:44] <MichiBot> FeherNeoH's new record is 5 hours, 6 minutes and 39 seconds! FeherNeoH also gained 0.00511 tonk points for stealing the tonk.
L5[02:40:59] <Izaya> https://cdn.niu.moe/media_attachments/files/006/995/429/original/fc23b23153043bcc.png
L6[02:59:02] ⇨ Joins: Inari (Inari!~Pinkishu@pD9E381BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L7[03:24:17] <Inari> AmandaC: halp, I'm bored
L8[03:25:23] <Forecaster> play tetris
L9[03:25:33] <Inari> Eh
L10[03:26:26] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv|afk (ben_mkiv|afk!~ben_mkiv@88.130.157.85) (Ping timeout: 378 seconds)
L11[03:26:39] <Forecaster> %sip
L12[03:26:40] <MichiBot> You drink a warpy tuna potion (New!). Forecaster suddenly forgets a random piece of trivia.
L13[03:26:49] <Forecaster> dang
L14[03:32:49] <iamweirdie> i stared at a LOT of tech mods today
L15[03:32:56] <iamweirdie> no, that's not right
L16[03:33:09] <iamweirdie> i stared at a lot of chem mods today
L17[03:33:12] <iamweirdie> there we go, yea
L18[03:33:38] <iamweirdie> i kept sifting thru so many wikis and figuring out different mods' systems
L19[03:33:56] <iamweirdie> by the end of it, i thought to myself: what is fun
L20[03:34:11] <Forecaster> reading wikis?
L21[03:34:13] <Forecaster> that's fun right
L22[03:34:32] <iamweirdie> i mean the reading was nice, dont get me wrong
L23[03:34:51] <iamweirdie> but wat made me scratch my head was the lack of integration between everyone
L24[03:35:12] <iamweirdie> which u TOTALLY expect from a game that's been modded so many times
L25[03:35:15] <iamweirdie> but still.
L26[03:35:22] <Izaya> https://imgur.com/r4wqxRp.png
L27[03:36:09] <iamweirdie> like at this stage, we've gotten over the idea that yea, everybody has their own flavor of copper
L28[03:36:21] <Forecaster> not really
L29[03:36:40] <Izaya> fortunately, the ore dictionary is a thing, eh?
L30[03:36:42] <iamweirdie> well a LOT of tech mods commonly use copper, is that a fair assessment?
L31[03:36:56] <FeherNeoH> only if they use it
L32[03:37:20] <iamweirdie> right, so anyway, a lot of mods have copper and they ssssssomewhat agree on the recipes
L33[03:37:44] <iamweirdie> and it's like i'm rediscovering that curve or variance when i look at chem mods
L34[03:38:03] <iamweirdie> particularly alchemistry vs mekanism
L35[03:40:30] <Forecaster> it's great when you get the "incoming enemy alert" for a transport mission just as you're docking at the destination station
L36[03:40:52] <Forecaster> those incoming enemies had a bit of a late start did they
L37[03:55:49] ⇨ Joins: Vexatos (Vexatos!~Vexatos@port-92-192-147-114.dynamic.qsc.de)
L38[03:55:49] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L39[04:04:15] <Forecaster> aw what
L40[04:04:32] <Forecaster> apparently killing a wanted ship without firing at it doesn't count >:
L41[04:04:43] <Forecaster> what a gyp
L42[04:14:06] <Inari> @Forecaster haha, what did you do, ram it to death?
L43[04:14:36] <Forecaster> I'd just scanned a keelback, and turns out I was right in it's path, so we just flew into eachother
L44[04:14:39] <Forecaster> and it blew up
L45[04:14:45] <Inari> Haha
L46[04:14:51] <Inari> What ship are you in?
L47[04:17:48] <Forecaster> a Federal Corvette
L48[04:17:56] <Inari> I see
L49[04:18:00] <Inari> I plan to get one of those at some point
L50[04:18:27] <Forecaster> it's among the three biggest ships you can fly
L51[04:21:04] <Inari> Yeah
L52[04:21:25] <Inari> I still want a FAS, Corvette, FdL, Type-9 xD
L53[04:23:02] <Forecaster> that's a name for a ship I guess http://tinyurl.com/yyn96qy3
L54[04:26:08] <Inari> Haha
L55[04:38:57] <Forecaster> I intend on getting a carrier when they come out :P
L56[04:43:28] <Forecaster> you what http://tinyurl.com/yyjl4vxp
L57[04:44:40] <Inari> I mean
L58[04:44:47] <Inari> If it gives you a good chunk of influence or rep
L59[04:44:47] <Inari> :D
L60[04:44:52] <Inari> Easy to make with core mining
L61[04:45:05] <Forecaster> Rep++ Inf++
L62[04:45:21] <Inari> Heh
L63[04:46:50] <Forecaster> doesn't seem worth it honestly
L64[04:47:40] <Inari> Maybe you just really like the cause
L65[04:48:45] <Forecaster> Support the Cause! Fight the man! give us 40 million monies
L66[04:48:48] <Izaya> mamba stronk
L67[04:48:51] * Izaya burns
L68[04:49:17] <Forecaster> you rarely see mambas
L69[04:49:22] <Forecaster> I've never had one either
L70[04:49:30] <Izaya> they're fun
L71[04:49:45] <Izaya> probably best acceleration of any medium ship with the thrusters upgraded
L72[04:50:18] <Izaya> it's basically the FDL but more stylish and with more of a tendency to overheat
L73[04:56:57] <Forecaster> sounds like a great feature
L74[04:57:07] <Forecaster> "Never get cold with a Mamba!"
L75[05:05:58] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (Vexatos!~Vexatos@port-92-192-147-114.dynamic.qsc.de) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)
L76[05:06:33] ⇦ Quits: MajGenRelativity (MajGenRelativity!~MajGenRel@c-73-123-203-209.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L77[05:20:34] ⇨ Joins: Vexatos (Vexatos!~Vexatos@port-92-192-203-201.dynamic.qsc.de)
L78[05:20:34] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L79[05:24:10] <Forecaster> A battle is happening http://tinyurl.com/yyp5qoe6
L80[05:24:18] ⇨ Joins: MajGenRelativity (MajGenRelativity!~MajGenRel@c-73-123-203-209.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
L81[05:26:02] <Forecaster> and it's over
L82[05:26:10] <Forecaster> the python and it's wingmate won
L83[05:29:18] <Izaya> https://social.shadowkat.net/media/55fec802a4d7c1c7d205ecac1283517698e3d42ec866c13449df1c329522a23b.webm
L84[05:48:38] <Inari> Hm
L85[05:48:49] <Inari> I want a nice MC techpack again. Or another game that does this better than MC
L86[05:50:00] <Inari> Hmm not sure, I find a FDL looking better than a mamba, but may check it out
L87[05:50:40] <Izaya> FDL is very space ship
L88[05:50:45] <Izaya> to me the mamba seems more sports car
L89[05:51:26] <Inari> but if it has a tendency to overheat it probably isn't great for rrailguns haha
L90[05:51:33] <Izaya> nonsense
L91[05:51:35] <Izaya> just uh
L92[05:51:38] <Izaya> fill
L93[05:51:40] <Izaya> every
L94[05:51:55] <Izaya> utility slot with heatsinks
L95[05:51:59] <Inari> Heh
L96[05:52:07] <Inari> Sure, and still run out of ammo for those in like 5 ships
L97[05:52:08] <Izaya> and make sure you go for a cool low-power reactor engineering thingo
L98[05:53:18] <Izaya> I wonder how fast one could make a DBS
L99[05:53:29] <Izaya> eagles are fastest but I don't like how they look
L100[05:53:52] <Forecaster> what about the imperial eagle
L101[05:53:58] <Izaya> still same body shape
L102[05:54:02] <Inari> It's all too slow because of being artificially speed limited anyway
L103[05:54:35] <Izaya> yeah when you have FA off you should be able to do absurd speed
L104[05:54:48] <Izaya> like, proper orbital velocity
L105[05:55:58] <Forecaster> I think it's fine as it is and would rather they not waste time on that and all the issues it would bring
L106[05:56:13] <Inari> Sure
L107[05:56:18] <Inari> You'd need to do a whole lot of redesign haha
L108[05:56:21] <Inari> Since nothing is made for that
L109[05:59:24] <Izaya> I mean, I know why they do it
L110[05:59:41] <Izaya> it'd just be nice if I could approach the speed of light in normal space, y'know?
L111[05:59:51] <Forecaster> eh
L112[05:59:57] <Forecaster> doubt it would add anything
L113[06:00:12] <Izaya> you'd need a lot more simulation for it to be fun
L114[06:04:17] <Izaya> plus, I think oolite does that anyway
L115[06:20:47] <Bob> i need help with encryption
L116[06:20:58] <Bob> i just want to do secure RFID cards but i have no ide ahow can i do that
L117[06:21:00] <Forecaster> concrete bunker
L118[06:21:10] <Bob> yea thats already a thing
L119[06:21:24] <Bob> anyhow i can battle card copying ?
L120[06:22:27] <Forecaster> there's a card that can do encryption
L121[06:22:45] <Forecaster> data card
L122[06:23:10] <Bob> yea i know
L123[06:23:29] <Bob> im now just thinking
L124[06:24:05] ⇨ Joins: LeshaInc (LeshaInc!LeshaInc@fomalhaut.me)
L125[06:27:58] <FeherNeoH> we would probably need programmable cards for what you want
L126[06:28:06] <Bob> yea i realized
L127[06:28:09] <Bob> tables :GWmemetownLULLLLLLLLLLL:
L128[06:28:20] <Bob> like SIMs
L129[06:28:22] <Bob> tiny computers
L130[06:28:30] <FeherNeoH> yeap, exactly
L131[06:28:38] <FeherNeoH> smart cards
L132[06:29:09] <FeherNeoH> write-only eeprom component for programming it
L133[06:29:25] <FeherNeoH> then something modem-like to communicate with the programmed card
L134[06:29:31] <Bob> yea
L135[06:29:43] <Bob> an tiny tiny thing that works by being powered by a wireless field
L136[06:29:49] <Bob> and has a shared storage you can read with RFID
L137[06:29:50] <Bob> kindoff
L138[06:30:19] <FeherNeoH> if you insert it into a reader, emulate write-only eeprom
L139[06:30:40] <FeherNeoH> if not in a reader, accept challenges over RFID, and answer them there too
L140[07:34:26] <Forecaster> if not in reader, violently explode
L141[08:33:02] <Forecaster> %tonk
L142[08:33:03] <MichiBot> Fudge! Forecaster! You beat FeherNeoH's previous record of 5 hours, 6 minutes and 39 seconds (By 57 minutes and 39 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L143[08:33:04] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new record is 6 hours, 4 minutes and 19 seconds! Forecaster also gained 0.00576 (0.00096 x 6) tonk points for stealing the tonk.
L144[08:45:21] <spoopster> how do i go about removing the first few characters of a string and assigning them to a variable
L145[08:56:45] <FeherNeoH> Well, if you program it that way...
L146[08:58:11] <Forecaster> I don't understand what you mean by "if"
L147[09:02:30] <FeherNeoH> Sure, you need to "accidentally" lose some trapped ones
L148[09:02:41] <FeherNeoH> but some should actually work
L149[09:25:41] <Heximate> What are you trying to do/accomplish, out of curiosity, Bob? That almost sounds like a wireless smart card, where it basically updates a token within itself via a small chip once it's read, so that it can mitigate on replay attacks and the like.
L150[09:26:20] <Forecaster> you can probably replicate that with a tablet by the way
L151[09:26:58] ⇦ Quits: ba7888b72413a16a (ba7888b72413a16a!~ba7888b72@66.109.211.150) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)
L152[09:27:33] <Heximate> Yeah, that's what I'm considering right now for my digital currency system I'm looking to make/prototype. Going to initially start with tablets that communicate with a Point of Sale device, which basically does end to end encryption between tablet and transaction server(s), but is forwarded by the PoS's network.
L153[09:27:50] <Heximate> Yeah, that's what I'm considering right now for my digital currency system I'm looking to make/prototype. Going to initially start with tablets that communicate with a Point of Sale device, which basically does end to end encryption between tablet and transaction server(s), but is relayed/forwarded by the PoS's network. [Edited]
L154[09:29:39] <Heximate> The other idea I've had but haven't really gotten too in depth yet is using a terminal with a custom EEPROM which uses a key upon booting to decrypt the program on disk to basically act as a dedicated smart card reader for the PoS nearby, so that device would be responsible for reading the keypad input and end to end encryption.
L155[09:30:07] <Heximate> Would allow people to use smart cards instead of tablets for a reasonably secure method (hopefully if it all works out well)
L156[09:30:38] <Inari> You wanna edit that some more?
L157[09:30:38] ⇨ Joins: ba7888b72413a16a (ba7888b72413a16a!~ba7888b72@66.109.211.150)
L158[09:30:40] <Heximate> and if a tech comes out to service a computer, they basically verify hash and contents of EEPROM and disk before booting it up and initiating the key download/entering
L159[09:31:14] <Heximate> Ah right, forgot that the bot would keep sending that to you all on IRC. My bad ?
L160[09:31:28] <Heximate> not used to a joint system chat
L161[09:35:00] <Heximate> and by smart card reader, I meant mag reader.
L162[09:35:18] <Heximate> anyhow... just musings I've had in the past few days now that I've gotten back into this mod a little bit and been in a programming mood
L163[09:35:24] <Heximate> back to MC o/
L164[09:37:02] <AdorableCatgirl> hey i once had a system for signed EEPROMs
L165[09:37:41] <AdorableCatgirl> i forgot how the fuck it worked
L166[09:39:25] <bauen1> what exatly is the point of a signed eeprom ?
L167[09:42:34] <Heximate> The way I figure it, upon boot the EEPROM would wait for a tablet that can do a signed handshake to pair up to it via wireless and send it another key to basically decrypt a program into memory which is then hopefully run and responsible for the card reader stuff and talking to the PoS. It would contain some sort of key within it as well once decrypted in some sort of PKI setup, if I can manage it to authenticate back to the transaction server
L168[09:42:34] <Heximate> This whole setup is to provide a relatively secure card reader that can accept a PIN without disclosing it to the PoS and so on.
L169[09:43:05] <Heximate> To avoid a malicious EEPROM from intercepting the key and defeating the hopeful tamper-proofing system, the tech would go out and either just pop in a new one that was burned before going on site, or they would stick it in a tablet and verify the hash really quick
L170[09:43:16] <bauen1> k
L171[09:43:30] <Heximate> only reason I need to make sure the integrity of the EEPROM is sound, is to avoid that key from being compromised
L172[09:44:23] <Heximate> still getting into this mod, but I'm assuming there's not much in the way of memory dumping/sniffing without getting code onto the machine, which should be pretty difficult to do, if not impossible, assuming all steps are followed
L173[09:45:11] <Heximate> again, only a concept I've been loosely working on in my free time over the past few days
L174[09:45:16] <Heximate> mostly for fun
L175[09:47:38] <AdorableCatgirl> bauen1: The idea was to prevent it from being overwritten but i figured if you had access to a computer to do that, you could just bypass how it werked
L176[09:48:29] <bauen1> yes you can, worst case download the original eeprom content into ram and send it when the os tries to read the eeproms content
L177[09:49:21] <bauen1> i don't think you can really build a trusted system environment using oc
L178[09:50:37] <Heximate> One a machine is booted, it doesn't really execute the EEPROM though, if I'm not mistaken? So after it loads the program into memory, I'm hoping that I should be good. Because like I said, the idea is to have the EEPROM verified before a key is sent to it and intercepted
L179[09:50:58] <Heximate> execute it after the handoff to the init.lua, or etc, I meant
L180[09:51:09] <bauen1> @Heximate you can have the eeprom override stuff in _G (eg. change what the eeprom read function returns)
L181[09:51:42] <Heximate> is that not session based though? so once the machine is power cycled that would be reset?
L182[09:51:49] <bauen1> yes
L183[09:51:49] <Heximate> I'm legit asking, as I don't know for sure
L184[09:52:17] <Heximate> so they wouldn't have any way to edit that namespace because the only thing on the machine is this program, no OS or any other way for them to start tinkering with things
L185[09:52:30] <bauen1> but if the computer just tells the server it is "secure", what prevents an attacker from doing so ?
L186[09:52:34] <Heximate> just pure input/output and the program in memory
L187[09:52:47] <bauen1> if your computer is physically accessible, i can just get your eeprom, read it modify it a bit and put it back in
L188[09:53:25] <Heximate> Again... that doesn't modify anything in memory. And as I've stated, a tech will always verify it's a legit EEPROM before doing a key-handoff
L189[09:53:58] <bauen1> what exactly is a key-handoff in this case ? downloading a new key to the harddrive ?
L190[09:54:22] <Heximate> and I would have a private key in the program that's encrypted with a paired public key back on the transaction servers, so it recognizes it as a valid system. Secondly, it would have the instructions for decoding the mag cards.
L191[09:54:48] <Heximate> I wouldn't put the key on the hard drive, loaded directly into RAM. Would defeat the purpose if I placed the key on storage.
L192[09:55:00] <bauen1> oh i see where you're going
L193[09:55:22] <bauen1> that's an interesting way, because it might actually be secure (you just can't have the computer poweroff)
L194[09:55:26] <Heximate> Yeah, I hope that works. But I would need to make a proof-of-concept to see if I can actually implement that, but that's what I hope to do
L195[09:55:36] <Heximate> yeah, that's what I'm hoping
L196[09:55:49] <bauen1> and you need to fit it in 4kb (or if you can fit a signature checker into those 4kb that works too)
L197[09:56:57] <bauen1> very stupid question, but if someone has access to a oc lua console, what does "tostring(tostring)" and "tostring(tonumber)" return ? (assuming they haven't been overriden in lua code)
L198[09:57:06] <Heximate> I think I should be able to, but again, this is all just ideas so far on my part
L199[09:58:36] <Heximate> I hadn't thought to try that, but would it just output the memory address?
L200[09:58:42] <Heximate> of the functions that is
L201[09:59:08] <bauen1> yes
L202[09:59:10] <Heximate> assuming there wasn't a runtime error
L203[09:59:38] <bauen1> there is (probably) a way to have a trusted environment
L204[10:00:14] <Heximate> ah okay cool
L205[10:00:16] <bauen1> you see, the exact value of those things might change every time the lua vm is restarted, the difference between them however does not
L206[10:00:34] <bauen1> this is specific to the original lua in c (and maybe luajit too)
L207[10:00:35] <Heximate> makes since with DMA
L208[10:00:42] <Heximate> sense* even
L209[10:01:18] <bauen1> now, you can of course fake the tostring operation, but to do so you need to set a metatable, but if you set a metatable getmetatable will return something
L210[10:02:01] <Heximate> that's something I need to refresh myself on is metatables in Lua and etc. I will say I haven't used much Lua, so I'm having to refresh myself on the language as I go along
L211[10:02:14] <Inari> This whole talk just makes me wish there were redstone based computers that are actually small and reasonably fast
L212[10:02:28] <Heximate> true
L213[10:02:43] <bauen1> is 8 bit in ~8 chunks small enough ?
L214[10:07:52] <bauen1> the hard thing about setting up a real trusted environment is having to verify that _G is actually _G provided by machine.lua while outplaying any tricks that could be played by something booted into this environment, which is probably impossible
L215[10:10:21] <FeherNeoH> with OC as is it's impossible to create a trusted environment
L216[10:10:41] <FeherNeoH> you can even fake the whole hardware
L217[10:12:22] <AmandaC> Just like all other security, it's an arms race
L218[10:14:16] <FeherNeoH> if we had stuff like smart RFID cards (looks at opensecurity), then we would have more chance on creating a "secure" environment
L219[10:14:37] <bauen1> hm, if you ignore someone with creative mode, can't you check that on a T3 creative computer, all memory is actually available to you ?
L220[10:14:42] <FeherNeoH> I can still think about ways of breaking that too
L221[10:15:29] <AdorableCatgirl> zorya can make a fake env pretty easily
L222[10:15:46] <AdorableCatgirl> i mean, that's sorta how eeprom signing worked, it just overwrote the component lib
L223[10:15:50] <bauen1> how ? An update that allows for more memory / server config change would of course break it.
L224[10:16:14] <FeherNeoH> ?
L225[10:17:16] <AmandaC> memory is configurable
L226[10:17:54] <bauen1> Yes, I'm just talking about securing a system against anyone with survival / creative (depending on your own gamemode), not the owner of the server, that is straight up impossible
L227[10:18:28] <FeherNeoH> Creative doesn't assume OP rights
L228[10:19:03] <FeherNeoH> and computers can be locked to specific players, can't they?
L229[10:19:09] <AdorableCatgirl> oh yeah
L230[10:19:12] <AdorableCatgirl> i forgot about that
L231[10:20:18] <FeherNeoH> if you have access to the computer's inventory, it's a lost way anyways
L232[10:20:30] <FeherNeoH> way->cause
L233[10:21:04] <FeherNeoH> as one can set up an environment from software that fakes every component ID too
L234[10:21:26] <FeherNeoH> only thing they cannot fake is the network card address seen from the network AFAIK
L235[10:21:50] <bauen1> @FeherNeoH you can't fake the memory lua code allocates too
L236[10:22:23] <FeherNeoH> here I'm assuming code that doesn't rely on not shutting down
L237[10:22:46] <bauen1> So am I
L238[10:23:23] <FeherNeoH> once it shuts down, you have no way proving that it started up on the same machine
L239[10:23:31] <bauen1> If you boot on the OC System with the max possible ram, you can try to allocate it all, if you fail, some has been used to fake the env.
L240[10:23:51] <Izaya> is it bad I'm considering writing a wireshark plugin so I can make pcap files in minecraft and then view them in wireshark to debug stuff
L241[10:24:05] <bauen1> omg yes
L242[10:24:11] <FeherNeoH> Izaya: that's a great idea
L243[10:24:12] <bauen1> i didn't even know i needed this
L244[10:24:31] <Izaya> I'll write the OC side if anyone else does the C side?
L245[10:24:34] <FeherNeoH> bauen1: I'm pretty sure even swapping can be achieved some way
L246[10:24:38] <Izaya> I should not be allowed near languages with unmanaged memory
L247[10:25:08] <FeherNeoH> I have no problems writing unmanaged code, but what's needed there?
L248[10:25:35] <Izaya> https://www.wireshark.org/docs/wsdg_html_chunked/ChapterDissection.html
L249[10:25:58] <bauen1> I don't think you can achieve swapping, except for writing an actuall lua vm in lua (and then you start hitting the performance limits of OC)
L250[10:26:05] <FeherNeoH> oh, the actual plugin part?
L251[10:26:10] <Izaya> yeah
L252[10:26:16] <Izaya> basically, I was going to encode packets with the interminitel format because that's already designed to serialise OC packets
L253[10:26:24] <Izaya> that's easy enough on the OC side
L254[10:26:41] <Izaya> but the issue then becomes writing the wireshark plugin
L255[10:27:04] <Izaya> oh
L256[10:27:10] <Izaya> https://wiki.wireshark.org/Lua/Dissectors
L257[10:27:15] <FeherNeoH> does it only need to parse the saved stuff, or communicate with a capture server running inside MC?
L258[10:27:21] <FeherNeoH> oh, even better
L259[10:27:28] <Izaya> I was just gonna write pcap files
L260[10:27:35] <Izaya> though I guess I could make it talk to netcat too
L261[10:27:37] <Izaya> that'd be neat
L262[10:27:57] <FeherNeoH> you could live-capture stuff
L263[10:28:21] <FeherNeoH> extra points if you make it into an OC plugin
L264[10:28:36] <Izaya> Lua I'm good at, C I can do
L265[10:28:38] <Izaya> java I will not
L266[10:28:39] <FeherNeoH> and you can select which network card to capture from inside wireshark
L267[10:28:51] <FeherNeoH> what java? ?
L268[10:29:10] <FeherNeoH> The reason I'm not messing with OC itself is that it's even worse than java
L269[10:29:42] <Izaya> Scala's a mild improvement
L270[10:29:46] <Forecaster> addons can be java, they don't have to be Scala
L271[10:29:54] <Izaya> in an ass-backwards sort of way
L272[10:31:58] <FeherNeoH> It's a pain figuring out the java<->scala interaction
L273[10:32:48] <FeherNeoH> sometimes it's easier figuring out how things work by looking at the freaking bytecode than by reading scala
L274[10:35:05] <Forecaster> hah
L275[10:35:08] <Forecaster> %sip
L276[10:35:09] <MichiBot> You drink a resonating radiation potion (New!). Sitting down suddenly seems like a really terrible idea.
L277[10:35:30] <Corded> * <Forecaster> gets up
L278[10:35:55] <FeherNeoH> try sitting on my "gaming chair"
L279[10:36:21] <FeherNeoH> (it's a PowerEdge 830)
L280[10:36:23] <Forecaster> that sound suspicous, so no
L281[10:37:40] <AmandaC> Why does your "gaming chair" have wires going onto it and arm clamps?
L282[10:37:56] * Lizzy hmms
L283[10:38:14] <bauen1> why is your gaming chair on fire ?
L284[10:39:01] <FeherNeoH> it only has the mainboard+CPU+coolers still installed
L285[10:39:18] <FeherNeoH> not even a PSU
L286[10:55:01] <bauen1> Izaya: if you manage to write up a plugin, would be nice if you could add support for payonel's ocvm
L287[10:55:25] <Izaya> That would be neat
L288[11:00:03] <AmandaC> Also @FeherNeoH OC's mod API is exposed entirely in the java/ directory
L289[11:07:05] <FeherNeoH> yeah, of you only need external stuff
L290[11:07:09] <FeherNeoH> *if
L291[11:07:34] <Heximate> Random question. Does anyone know off the top of their head whether motion detector will still work vs invisible entities? I would assume so? Probably going to run a test anyway, but curious if anyone's already attempted to find out.
L292[11:08:24] <Heximate> would be handy to have one in a mantrap if so, for anti-tailgating reasons
L293[11:12:26] <bauen1> @FeherNeoH https://termbin.com/ad98 (ocvm config: https://termbin.com/0dk6 the important thing here is the memory of 1048576)
L294[11:12:42] <bauen1> If you run this on another oc machine that has the same memory, it will crash if you try to play shenanigans
L295[11:13:28] <bauen1> technically you can screw with it here, but if you just put the loop that allocates the memory up front it probably can't be defeated by anyone without access to the oc configs
L296[11:13:56] <bauen1> the numbers in the eeprom are a bit magic guess work
L297[11:15:30] <bauen1> actually i don't think you usually have access to collectgarbage without sandboxing, but it isn't really necessary (just for debugging)
L298[11:17:44] <bauen1> so this should be able to secure an eeprom against anyone who doesn't have access to the mc server
L299[11:18:38] <AmandaC> Well, with physical access you could just replace the EEPROM
L300[11:32:21] <bauen1> yes
L301[11:33:34] <FeherNeoH> but if there are registered users, only those users can open the inventory, right?
L302[11:35:09] <bauen1> can you clone the uuid of an eeprom ?
L303[11:35:13] <bauen1> in survival mode ?
L304[11:35:19] ⇨ Joins: Thutmose (Thutmose!~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com)
L305[11:35:37] <FeherNeoH> no
L306[11:35:45] <AmandaC> I think the access control only stops keyboard/screen interaction, @FeherNeoH
L307[11:36:17] <bauen1> according to the wiki it stops inventory access too
L308[11:36:17] <FeherNeoH> I thought it was only "the one who placed the computer, registered users, OPs"
L309[11:37:42] <bauen1> it provides a defense against trying to sandbox the original eeprom
L310[11:49:43] <bauen1> by it itself i guess it isn't exactly usefull
L311[12:03:54] ⇦ Quits: Inari (Inari!~Pinkishu@pD9E381BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
L312[12:04:23] <FeherNeoH> but why in hell would anyone waste RAM just for this?
L313[12:04:45] <AmandaC> !!!!Secure!!!! "banking" I'm guessing?
L314[12:05:07] <AmandaC> kids always want to make that kind of thing with computer mods, for whatever reason
L315[12:05:15] ⇨ Joins: Inari (Inari!~Pinkishu@pD9E381BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L316[12:05:16] <bauen1> the ram is free to use, it just verifys at start that it isn't used by something malicious
L317[12:05:35] <FeherNeoH> I mean
L318[12:05:49] <Bob> http://tinyurl.com/yya86z6k
L319[12:06:00] <FeherNeoH> I'm 95% sure the actual code won't need maxed out RAM in the computer
L320[12:06:23] <FeherNeoH> I don't usually use a debugger either
L321[12:06:32] <FeherNeoH> I mean, usually I just can't
L322[12:06:36] <Bob> i use the might p r i n t
L323[12:06:51] <AmandaC> @Bob I'm feeling personally attacked right now.
L324[12:06:51] <FeherNeoH> I use the mighty uart_putc
L325[12:07:23] <AmandaC> Though once I made some debug print statements tell a story of a princess going on a search for a jetpack. It was cool.
L326[12:07:35] <Bob> why not
L327[12:08:08] <bauen1> The point isn't that the programm needs that much memory, but to verify that there isn't a programm trying to lie t you (sandbox you) by testing that the memory that should be there isn't used by something that shouldn't be there
L328[12:09:23] <bauen1> maximum ram so the program can't be run somewhere with more ram while being told it has less
L329[12:09:33] <bauen1> it's just an experiment
L330[12:09:39] <Inari> %pet AmandaC
L331[12:09:39] * MichiBot brushes AmandaC with romantic fireworks. 7 health gained!
L332[12:11:14] * AmandaC digs her claws into Inari's lap, scared by the fireworks
L333[12:11:29] <Inari> D:
L334[12:22:11] <FeherNeoH> The anime I was waiting for is finally here
L335[12:22:17] <FeherNeoH> "Episode 0"
L336[12:22:26] <FeherNeoH> Well, thank you for nothing
L337[12:30:05] <Forecaster> what's wrong with that?
L338[12:42:14] <AmandaC> What's the anime?
L339[12:49:02] <Forecaster> maybe the anime is called "Episode 0" :P
L340[12:52:05] <FeherNeoH> SAO Alicization part 2
L341[12:55:52] <AmandaC> I see
L342[12:58:17] <FeherNeoH> D...Don't judge me...
L343[13:00:48] <Forecaster> %inv add judgement
L344[13:00:49] * MichiBot summons 'judgement' and adds to her inventory. I could get some good swings in with this.
L345[13:01:03] <CompanionCube> %loot
L346[13:01:03] <MichiBot> CompanionCube: You get a loot box! It contains a charred piece of bacon. (Junk)
L347[13:01:04] <Forecaster> %sip
L348[13:01:04] <MichiBot> You drink a thick green potion (New!). The potion contained a computer virus! It just changed Forecaster's background...
L349[13:01:28] <CompanionCube> this isn't edible :(
L350[13:02:15] <Forecaster> sure it is
L351[13:24:49] <FeherNeoH> Changing wallpaper isn't done by viruses but colleagues
L352[13:25:02] <FeherNeoH> Or are they viruses too?
L353[13:25:06] <AmandaC> I mean
L354[13:25:11] <AmandaC> it could be done by a virus
L355[13:27:16] <FeherNeoH> Yeah, right, Windows can change wallpapers, so...
L356[13:32:58] <AmandaC> I mean
L357[13:33:12] <AdorableCatgirl> jfc
L358[13:33:15] <AmandaC> any X Process under the sun can change the "desktop", too
L359[13:33:22] <AdorableCatgirl> did a new csgo update change how shotguns work?
L360[13:33:28] <AdorableCatgirl> because they feel w a y more RNG
L361[13:33:40] <AdorableCatgirl> G for garbage
L362[13:38:30] <FeherNeoH> Weren't they always garbage in csgo?
L363[13:47:56] <AdorableCatgirl> i mean like
L364[13:48:01] <AdorableCatgirl> 20 in 1 at point blank
L365[13:48:45] <AdorableCatgirl> or sometimes not even hitting
L366[13:48:48] <AdorableCatgirl> at point blank
L367[13:48:50] <AdorableCatgirl> apparently
L368[13:48:52] <AdorableCatgirl> @FeherNeoH
L369[13:50:05] <FeherNeoH> That sounds like cs
L370[13:50:18] <FeherNeoH> but yeah, it shouldn't be THAT bad
L371[13:54:41] <AdorableCatgirl> yeah
L372[13:54:52] <AdorableCatgirl> i also once got 80 on a point blank headshot??? @FeherNeoH
L373[13:55:05] <AdorableCatgirl> i heard the headshot noise and it was like "lol 80"
L374[13:55:45] <FeherNeoH> got "headshot" by being shot in the leg many times in cs, so nothing surprises me
L375[13:58:32] <FeherNeoH> PS4 HDD: 8455MB (1TB)
L376[13:58:41] <FeherNeoH> something sounds a bit off
L377[14:10:37] ⇦ Quits: SquidDev (SquidDev!~SquidDev@squiddev.cc) (Quit: Bye!)
L378[14:14:08] ⇨ Joins: SquidDev (SquidDev!~SquidDev@squiddev.cc)
L379[14:45:39] <CompanionCube> %tonkout
L380[14:45:40] <MichiBot> Potzblitz! CompanionCube! You beat Forecaster's previous record of 6 hours, 4 minutes and 19 seconds (By 8 minutes and 18 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L381[14:45:41] <MichiBot> CompanionCube has stolen the tonkout! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.006 tonk points! plus 0.005 bonus points for consecutive hours! (Reduced to 50% because stealing) Current score: 1.4424
L382[14:50:17] <Lizzy> %tonk
L383[14:50:18] <MichiBot> Heckgosh! Lizzy! You beat CompanionCube's previous record of <0 (By 4 minutes and 37 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L384[14:50:19] <MichiBot> Lizzy's new record is 4 minutes and 37 seconds! Lizzy also gained 0.00008 tonk points for stealing the tonk.
L385[14:51:26] ⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv|afk (ben_mkiv|afk!~ben_mkiv@88.130.158.67)
L386[15:06:01] ⇨ Joins: flappy (flappy!~flappy@88-113-149-197.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
L387[15:24:16] <SquidDev> %tonk
L388[15:24:17] <MichiBot> Dad-Sizzle! SquidDev! You beat Lizzy's previous record of 4 minutes and 37 seconds (By 29 minutes and 21 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L389[15:24:18] <MichiBot> SquidDev's new record is 33 minutes and 58 seconds! SquidDev also gained 0.00049 tonk points for stealing the tonk.
L390[16:00:14] <SquidDev> %tonkout
L391[16:00:15] <MichiBot> By my throth! SquidDev! You beat your own previous record of 33 minutes and 58 seconds (By 1 minute and 59 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L392[16:00:16] <MichiBot> SquidDev has tonked out! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0 tonk points! Current score: 0.03675
L393[16:01:36] ⇨ Joins: Naidru (Naidru!~naidru@99-27-234-96.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
L394[16:01:41] <Naidru> Hello!
L395[16:03:05] <Naidru> We need help connecting the servers in our server room
L396[16:03:34] <Forecaster> %hello
L397[16:03:34] <MichiBot> Forecaster: Hello! Welcome to #oc! The one and only opencomputers channel! Please ask your questions directly (dont ask to ask) and provide error/code examples! (Use pastebin.com if theyre more than one line!) Dont mind the random conversation you might have walked into.
L398[16:04:35] <ben_mkiv|afk> cables are good for that
L399[16:13:49] * ben_mkiv|afk still waiting for any 1.13+ news :>
L400[16:30:14] ⇦ Quits: Naidru (Naidru!~naidru@99-27-234-96.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
L401[16:32:22] <Forecaster> %bye
L402[16:32:22] <MichiBot> Forecaster: Oh, well, bye I guess...
L403[16:35:56] <AmandaC> ben_mkiv|afk: you keep doubling the time until release by asking!
L404[16:38:04] <ben_mkiv|afk> well, i would probably assist as best as i can if they need help
L405[16:39:00] <ben_mkiv|afk> it would probably help to get more help if the mod was written in java (also scala aint shipped with forge anymore)
L406[16:40:19] <ben_mkiv|afk> and/or to outsource some content to an addon mod which depends on the opencomputers core
L407[16:52:16] <ba7888b72413a16a> 1.12 4lyfe
L408[16:53:19] <ben_mkiv|afk> thats what people said about 1.7.10 and 1.10, too
L409[16:53:28] <ba7888b72413a16a> yeah, and some people are still on 1.7.10
L410[16:53:33] <ba7888b72413a16a> they're obviously right
L411[16:53:51] <ba7888b72413a16a> if we had just stayed on 1.7.10, things would be gr8
L412[16:54:03] <ben_mkiv|afk> no
L413[16:54:27] <ben_mkiv|afk> 1.12 gameplay is way smoother in my experience
L414[16:54:40] <ba7888b72413a16a> obviously there's deficiencies and bugs in the core game with older versions, but the community would benefit
L415[16:54:56] <ba7888b72413a16a> but nobody's going to agree to that
L416[16:55:56] <ben_mkiv|afk> well, mojang is also cleaning up their bad legacy things lately
L417[16:56:22] <ben_mkiv|afk> like id limits, bad performance at some things, and so on
L418[16:56:36] <ba7888b72413a16a> I hear about a massive graphics engine refactoring coming to 1.15 and it makes me want to stay on 1.12 for much longer
L419[16:56:50] <ba7888b72413a16a> simply due to the fact that mod support will fragment
L420[16:56:54] <ben_mkiv|afk> could it get worse?
L421[16:57:09] <ben_mkiv|afk> seriously the render engine is a mess
L422[16:57:28] <ben_mkiv|afk> like animations which reload textures to the gpu on every frame
L423[16:57:38] <ben_mkiv|afk> on/for
L424[16:57:39] <ba7888b72413a16a> not a mess for the players though, except for performance nightmares
L425[16:58:18] <ba7888b72413a16a> the whole modded minecraft thing works surprisingly well
L426[16:58:43] <ben_mkiv|afk> yes
L427[16:58:45] <ba7888b72413a16a> you would think a game with that much modding flexibility would fall apart into a million pieces, but somehow it doesn't
L428[16:58:47] <ba7888b72413a16a> magic!
L429[16:59:32] <ben_mkiv|afk> as long as no weird coremods are involved
L430[17:00:15] <ba7888b72413a16a> even the big coremods like optifine manage to not break a whole lot
L431[17:00:28] <ba7888b72413a16a> though, a big chunk of crash reports are optifine-related
L432[17:00:54] <ben_mkiv|afk> yea because most mods dont do fancy stuff, but specially optifine is a mess with its closed source render pipeline
L433[17:01:56] <ba7888b72413a16a> it's amazing how in 2019 there is still a popular mod that uses ad.fly and doesn't allow modpack distribution
L434[17:02:08] <ba7888b72413a16a> get with the times and open source
L435[17:16:23] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (Vexatos!~Vexatos@port-92-192-203-201.dynamic.qsc.de) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)
L436[17:50:22] ⇦ Quits: Inari (Inari!~Pinkishu@pD9E381BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
L437[18:19:43] <CompanionCube> %tonk
L438[18:19:44] <MichiBot> Consarn it! CompanionCube! You beat SquidDev's previous record of <0 (By 2 hours, 19 minutes and 29 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L439[18:19:45] <MichiBot> CompanionCube's new record is 2 hours, 19 minutes and 29 seconds! CompanionCube also gained 0.00232 tonk points for stealing the tonk.
L440[19:11:25] ⇨ Joins: {Opsimath}Shawn ({Opsimath}Shawn!~shawn156@c-76-25-73-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
L441[19:58:28] ⇦ Quits: flappy (flappy!~flappy@88-113-149-197.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)
L442[20:21:24] ⇨ Joins: Soni (Soni!~quassel@autism.nbextension.download)
L443[20:21:33] <Soni> can we have a bittorrent card?
L444[20:22:14] <Soni> it'd be cool to be able to share programs and stuff without going through pastebin or admin-controlled domain allowlists
L445[20:22:47] <The_Stargazer> use network cards and the LZ77 lib
L446[20:22:57] <AmandaC> ... no
L447[20:23:05] <AmandaC> we can not have bittorrent clients built-in
L448[20:23:14] <AmandaC> Are you trying to get OC banned from servers?
L449[20:23:14] <Soni> additionally, a bittorrent card allows OC to do all sorts of sandboxing
L450[20:23:26] <Soni> AmandaC: why would it get banned from servers
L451[20:23:53] <AmandaC> LEt's use it to seed a pirated movie, and cause massive bandwidth spikes!
L452[20:24:41] <Soni> AmandaC: sure, at 72p with no audio?
L453[20:25:08] <AmandaC> servers don't always leave the storage unmodified, or make it impossible for people to make creative machines
L454[20:25:41] <Soni> AmandaC: creative machines don't have unlimited storage, and the torrent storage would be part of the card itself
L455[20:26:01] <The_Stargazer> LZ77 + Network Cards / GERTi
L456[20:26:01] <The_Stargazer> and there you have the basis for a P2P program
L457[20:26:26] <Soni> so you'd be limited to about 1MB of torrent data
L458[20:26:56] <The_Stargazer> break files into chunks
L459[20:26:56] <Soni> and yeah, you can fit a 72p30 movie into that, with no audio. and that's all you can fit in it.
L460[20:26:58] <The_Stargazer> LZ77 them
L461[20:27:16] <The_Stargazer> each chunk should be at most 8000KB
L462[20:27:25] <The_Stargazer> allowing for 192KB of overhead
L463[20:27:30] <Soni> and that only gives you the ability to seed one such movie at a time which defeats the purpose of bittorrent
L464[20:27:35] <The_Stargazer> wait, no.
L465[20:27:36] <The_Stargazer> 8KB
L466[20:27:44] <The_Stargazer> with 192 bytes of overhead
L467[20:27:54] <The_Stargazer> got my bytes and kilobytes mixed up
L468[20:27:57] <Soni> or you can just have a bunch of programs and stuff and make full use of the 1MB with a lot more torrents and being a lot more useful that way
L469[20:28:09] <The_Stargazer> where do you get 1MB from?
L470[20:28:11] <Soni> best part, it works across all servers and even across non-servers
L471[20:28:45] <Soni> Corded: 1MB is my suggested on-board flash for the torrent card
L472[20:30:12] <Soni> the torrent card would basically be like one of those SoC cards you can get for real life computers or w/e, where the card basically has its own OS and everything and you have a protocol you use to interact with it, but it does things independently of the computer
L473[20:31:02] <Soni> in real life, it also works as a form of DRM
L474[20:31:03] <The_Stargazer> that would be neat
L475[20:31:25] <Soni> but in this case it'd just be a way to severely limit abuse
L476[20:31:32] <The_Stargazer> who tf would willingly put a DRM card in their PC
L477[20:31:50] <Soni> companies
L478[20:32:11] <AdorableCatgirl> i sent a man to the shadow realm in csgo
L479[20:32:13] <Soni> for protecting trade secrets etc
L480[20:32:33] <AdorableCatgirl> hit em with the nova so hard he clipped through the map
L481[20:33:14] <Soni> (also: torrent card would *not* allow you to pick and choose parts, also to prevent abuse)
L482[20:33:43] <Soni> AmandaC: so, does that solve your concerns?
L483[20:34:26] <ben_mkiv|afk> torrents are also admin controlled, or how does the client know who shares data?
L484[20:34:40] <Soni> DHT?
L485[20:34:45] <Soni> magnet links?
L486[20:35:45] <Soni> you can ban users trying to abuse it, but then again you already have to ban users trying to abuse TCP and/or HTTP for DDoS attacks
L487[20:36:22] <Soni> so not a lot of difference there
L488[20:36:29] <ben_mkiv|afk> well.... make your own service on tcp/http then
L489[20:36:40] <ben_mkiv|afk> if you dislike pastebin/git/oppm
L490[20:36:45] <Soni> except bittorrent would be much, *much* less abusable
L491[20:36:55] <Soni> (if you don't control the bittorrent stack)
L492[20:37:19] <Soni> (you can't run a DDoS attack with bittorrent)
L493[20:37:38] <Soni> (so in other words it would be a safer alternative to the internet card)
L494[20:38:01] <ben_mkiv|afk> not really
L495[20:38:15] <The_Stargazer> what happened to sharing stuff with floppies?
L496[20:38:19] <ben_mkiv|afk> an idiot can copy&paste a torrent seed, but doesnt know how to use http/tcp protocol at all
L497[20:38:25] <Soni> you can also upload base64-encoded pirated video to pastebin
L498[20:38:27] <ben_mkiv|afk> so the internet card is safe because of the learning curve
L499[20:38:28] <ben_mkiv|afk> xD
L500[20:38:34] <The_Stargazer> you can?
L501[20:38:36] <The_Stargazer> what.
L502[20:38:46] <AdorableCatgirl> just share shit with eeproms smh
L503[20:38:47] <Soni> it's a painful way of doing it, but yes
L504[20:38:55] <The_Stargazer> piratebin
L505[20:38:58] <Soni> there's always another way to implement piracy
L506[20:39:10] <The_Stargazer> where there's a will there's a way or whatever
L507[20:39:17] <AmandaC> the piracy isn't the problem, the bandwidth spike ie
L508[20:39:29] <Soni> and piracy-over-pastebin doesn't have the 1MB limitations of the proposed bittorrent card
L509[20:39:54] <Soni> AmandaC: it's... not tho?
L510[20:39:55] <The_Stargazer> so how would you get data to and from the card?
L511[20:40:00] <The_Stargazer> something like
L512[20:40:05] <AmandaC> bittorrent uses a lot of bandwidth
L513[20:40:08] <The_Stargazer> `component.bittorrent.flash(file)`?
L514[20:40:09] <Soni> take it from someone who runs torrents from their VPS
L515[20:40:18] <The_Stargazer> and `component.bittorrent.get()`?
L516[20:40:23] <ben_mkiv|afk> the max paste size is 500kb (10mb for pro)
L517[20:40:26] <Soni> Corded: yeah, something like that
L518[20:40:32] <ben_mkiv|afk> have fun sharing a video, with their spam/bot protection
L519[20:40:52] <Soni> in practice, more like component.bittorrent.add(magnet_link) and component.bittorrent.get(magnet_link)
L520[20:41:05] <Soni> ben_mkiv|afk: pro+APIkey
L521[20:41:14] <The_Stargazer> maybe `set` because `add` implies multiple torrents
L522[20:41:27] <Soni> Corded: yes, it does
L523[20:41:36] <Soni> limited to 1MB total
L524[20:41:42] <The_Stargazer> ohh
L525[20:41:46] <The_Stargazer> not 1MB per?
L526[20:41:51] <Soni> no, 1MB total
L527[20:42:14] <Soni> so you can have 1000 1kB torrents, or 100 10kB torrents, or 10 100kB torrents, or 1 1MB torrent
L528[20:42:38] <Soni> (yes, those aren't POTs)
L529[20:43:26] <Soni> if you could only have 1 torrent, it would be kinda useless
L530[20:43:49] <Soni> I mean... you download someone's script, and then you wanna download someone else's... and you have to let go of the other one
L531[20:44:07] <Soni> that's kinda useless
L532[20:44:12] <Soni> ideally you'd have both so you can seed both
L533[20:44:32] <ben_mkiv|afk> sounds pretty unreliable, too
L534[20:44:58] <Soni> yes, it would be unreliable if you could only have one torrent
L535[20:45:17] <Soni> the point is to have more than one so it's much more reliable
L536[20:45:39] <Soni> btw this is what I run a torrent client on my VPS for: https://aam.autistic.space/
L537[20:45:46] <ben_mkiv|afk> also doesnt bittorrent require an open port?
L538[20:45:58] <ben_mkiv|afk> which wouldnt happen either most of the times
L539[20:46:36] <Soni> no, it doesn't require an explicitly open port
L540[20:46:50] <Soni> as long as you can get hole punching to work, it works fine
L541[20:46:51] <ben_mkiv|afk> so how does another client request a file then?
L542[20:46:57] <Soni> DHT
L543[20:47:13] <AdorableCatgirl> wait so what's going on
L544[20:47:16] <ben_mkiv|afk> idk what that is
L545[20:47:46] <ben_mkiv|afk> either the bittorrent server connects to some other machine to allow requests from outside
L546[20:47:49] <ben_mkiv|afk> or you got to forward a port
L547[20:47:58] <Soni> or you use DHT and UDP hole punching
L548[20:48:08] <ben_mkiv|afk> which leads you back to the point where you have an admin managed server in the chain
L549[20:48:17] <AmandaC> hole punching... which requires a socket listener?
L550[20:48:27] <AmandaC> and thus an opening in the firewall?
L551[20:48:37] <ben_mkiv|afk> you cant expect to punch any hole on a server which is administrated by someone with iq > 10
L552[20:48:45] <Soni> hole punching creates the opening in the firewall
L553[20:48:47] <CompanionCube> %tonkout
L554[20:48:47] <MichiBot> Dad-Sizzle! CompanionCube! You beat your own previous record of 2 hours, 19 minutes and 29 seconds (By 9 minutes and 34 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L555[20:48:48] <MichiBot> CompanionCube has tonked out! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.002 tonk points! plus 0.002 bonus points for consecutive hours! Current score: 1.44872
L556[20:49:13] <AmandaC> %8ball rain time?
L557[20:49:13] <MichiBot> AmandaC: [ The Bowling ball doesn't answer ]
L558[20:49:51] <Soni> for the same reason you don't explicitly configure ntp client ports or DNS response ports
L559[20:50:03] <Soni> they're randomly chosen and the firewall just deals with it
L560[20:50:11] <Soni> so, yes, it works fine behind a firewall
L561[20:50:19] <Soni> thanks to uTP
L562[20:51:14] <Soni> and, btw, most torrent clients also have a low-bandwidth mode for uTP where it'll only use available bandwidth. it runs at a lower priority than your normal internet traffic such as chunk loading and stuff.
L563[20:51:28] <Soni> in fact, that mode is the default
L564[20:51:34] <CompanionCube> why are we doing hw for single application protocols now?
L565[20:51:45] <Soni> CompanionCube: sandboxing
L566[20:52:05] <CompanionCube> is there a reason you cannot implement your own P2P network using the standard modems?
L567[20:52:24] <Soni> CompanionCube: yeah, server-to-server support
L568[20:52:26] <CompanionCube> One could even borrow the bittorrent protocol as appropriate.
L569[20:52:46] <AdorableCatgirl> there's already server-to-server stuff
L570[20:52:57] <Soni> Corded: since when?
L571[20:53:00] <ben_mkiv|afk> also dns is mostly port 53
L572[20:53:14] <Soni> ben_mkiv|afk: port 53 is the DNS server's listen port
L573[20:53:40] <AdorableCatgirl> GERT
L574[20:53:42] <AdorableCatgirl> for one
L575[20:53:48] <Soni> if you look at wireshark you'll see packets from high UDP ports around the 50000 range going to port 53, and replies going to port 50000 or w/e
L576[20:54:00] <ben_mkiv|afk> well ok
L577[20:54:02] <Soni> those replies come back magically, guess why
L578[20:54:07] <CompanionCube> honestly surprised you haven't mentioned upnp yet
L579[20:54:31] <Soni> CompanionCube: 1. never use upnp 2. I don't use it at home 3. when's upnp a thing on a VPS
L580[20:54:42] <Soni> 4. why would upnp be a thing on a VPS
L581[20:54:53] <Soni> 5. your VPS is broken and I strongly recommend switching providers
L582[20:55:09] <CompanionCube> Soni: more of a 'relevant to firewalls' thing
L583[20:56:40] <CompanionCube> btw 'lower priority' isn't really a thing unless you bother to setup actual QoS on the router
L584[20:56:41] <Soni> what's GERT?
L585[20:57:13] <Soni> CompanionCube: or if your protocol includes timing information specifically to dial back if the packets are taking too long
L586[20:57:14] <CompanionCube> Soni: stargazer's network stack of choice, from MGR
L587[20:57:23] <Soni> what's MGR?
L588[20:57:37] <CompanionCube> more like 'who'
L589[20:57:44] <CompanionCube> %loot
L590[20:57:44] <MichiBot> CompanionCube: You get a loot box! It contains a miraculous miracle man (mmm) #1 comic. (Junk)
L591[20:57:49] <Soni> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Transport_Protocol
L592[20:57:58] <CompanionCube> i can't use this as a weapon :(
L593[20:59:07] <Soni> literally just read a thing or two before talking about things you don't know. there's a huge lack of that when I talk to ppl and it makes talking to them exhausting. :/
L594[21:00:57] <Soni> especially considering that this stuff is actually publicly accessible unlike ISO standards or w/e
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L596[21:02:16] <AdorableCatgirl> what
L597[21:02:28] <Soni> if I was talking about ISO standards I'd actually understand why ppl would push back. those things are ridiculously expensive. but this? google it. please.
L598[21:02:45] <Soni> like, how many of you even know what uTP stands for?
L599[21:03:23] <Soni> and, additionally, how many of those who don't know, are trying to talk to me about why it doesn't work?
L600[21:04:02] <AdorableCatgirl> i still don't understand what you're getting at??
L601[21:04:29] * CompanionCube doesn't think the congestion control in uTP translates to 'priority'
L602[21:04:32] <Soni> I'm trying to get at ppl treating me like I don't know what I'm talking about when I actually do.
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L604[21:05:25] <Soni> CompanionCube: point being it uses "background" bandwidth, so I would say it has a lower, background priority
L605[21:05:37] <Soni> this is, ofc, arguable
L606[21:07:00] <Soni> but anyway, just don't *splain things to me.
L607[21:12:35] <AdorableCatgirl> like
L608[21:12:37] * CompanionCube doesn't much see the point in a specifically bittorrent network, given the filesizes are hilariously small vs other uses
L609[21:12:41] <AdorableCatgirl> i don't see the point of it
L610[21:13:00] <CompanionCube> a more general P2P network could have some
L611[21:13:03] <CompanionCube> *use
L612[21:13:17] <Soni> same reason I'm still asking ppl for a mod where you can pack up worlds for sharing with friends, using bittorrent for it
L613[21:13:44] <Soni> and it basically generates a "code" and waits for a friend to connect
L614[21:13:54] <Soni> and tells you that it'll only send if the friend connects
L615[21:13:58] <CompanionCube> that doesn't sound like bittorrent
L616[21:14:06] <Soni> (with the ability to work in the background)
L617[21:14:14] <CompanionCube> that sounds like magic-wormhole
L618[21:14:21] <Soni> nah, the "code" would be a magnet link
L619[21:15:11] <AdorableCatgirl> but like, i don't see the point of bittorrent in OC?
L620[21:16:07] <Soni> pastebin replacement
L621[21:16:16] <CompanionCube> what's the point of a swarm model when your file sizes aren't even in double-digit MB really
L622[21:16:16] <AdorableCatgirl> ???
L623[21:16:23] <AdorableCatgirl> what
L624[21:16:25] <Soni> and way cooler
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L626[21:16:42] <AdorableCatgirl> that
L627[21:16:45] <AdorableCatgirl> but
L628[21:16:47] <AdorableCatgirl> why
L629[21:16:52] <CompanionCube> hell, IPFS for OC has more utility than bittorrent
L630[21:17:25] <CompanionCube> (interplanetary filesystem: now actually interplanet in minecraft!)
L631[21:17:34] <AdorableCatgirl> nice
L632[21:17:54] <AdorableCatgirl> i'm messing with some minitel related shit rn
L633[21:18:04] <AdorableCatgirl> i didn'r realize some things existed that exist
L634[21:18:21] <CompanionCube> such as?
L635[21:18:54] <AdorableCatgirl> vtunnel
L636[21:18:57] <Soni> so have an IPFS+BT card
L637[21:19:11] <AdorableCatgirl> i now have like zero--why do we need specialized cards for everything???
L638[21:19:18] <Soni> sandboxing
L639[21:19:21] <AdorableCatgirl> that just seems like b l o a t
L640[21:19:23] <Soni> *sigh*
L641[21:19:39] <Soni> I'm finding it hard to explain the sandboxing part than the actual card itself
L642[21:19:44] <AdorableCatgirl> literally half of OC is janking your own shit together and patching until it's not jank
L643[21:19:52] <Soni> okay fine why not add UDP
L644[21:19:56] <AdorableCatgirl> no clue
L645[21:19:57] <Soni> just give us UDP card
L646[21:20:01] <AdorableCatgirl> >UDP card
L647[21:20:02] <AdorableCatgirl> or
L648[21:20:04] <AdorableCatgirl> hear me out
L649[21:20:09] <Soni> then I don't have to ask for BT or IPFS or anything sandboxed
L650[21:20:21] <Soni> or, hell, give us raw ethernet frames card
L651[21:20:24] <AdorableCatgirl> just add it to the internet card. but i have a feeling there's security reasons for a lack of UDP
L652[21:20:30] <Soni> ATAoE in minecraft? why not!
L653[21:20:35] <Soni> *meh*
L654[21:21:29] <AdorableCatgirl> anyways, i'm gonna jank some shit together to try to get a really shitty networked "component" system or some shit over minitel+vtunnel
L655[21:21:53] <Soni> I'm gonna go have a meltdown, cya o/
L656[21:21:58] ⇦ Parts: Soni (Soni!~quassel@autism.nbextension.download) (http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.))
L657[21:22:04] <CompanionCube> raw ethernet frames don't make sense in a world wihout...dammit!
L658[21:22:18] <AdorableCatgirl> alrighty then
L659[21:22:43] <AdorableCatgirl> anyways, now, i don't think i have a use for gert
L660[21:31:15] <Izaya> AdorableCatgirl: inb4 virtual filesystem component that is the real filesystem
L661[21:33:00] <Izaya> CompanionCube: did I mention to you
L662[21:33:14] <Izaya> I wanna do a wireshark plugin so I can debug minitel with wireshark
L663[21:33:23] <CompanionCube> sounds cool
L664[21:34:17] <Izaya> Plus pcap recorders for OC
L665[21:40:14] <AdorableCatgirl> Izaya: how'd you know
L666[21:41:33] <Izaya> seems practical
L667[21:41:38] <Izaya> and something I've considered before
L668[21:43:18] <AdorableCatgirl> huh
L669[21:43:33] <Izaya> are there any like
L670[21:43:36] <Izaya> sorting machines
L671[21:43:41] <AdorableCatgirl> i was also thinking about providing other crazy shit--what
L672[21:43:47] <Izaya> think BC diamond pipes or IE item routers
L673[21:43:51] <Izaya> that can be configured with OC?
L674[21:43:58] <AdorableCatgirl> idk
L675[21:44:26] <Izaya> using a robot for it seems overkill and I'd still need to sacrifice a side for power
L676[21:44:38] <AdorableCatgirl> hmm
L677[21:45:12] <Izaya> >[13:09:25] [Server thread/INFO] [BuildCraft]: Awarding advancement to Izaya! Or we would do, if this was 1.12...
L678[21:45:16] <Izaya> >server is 1.12.2
L679[21:45:33] <AdorableCatgirl> BC is buggy
L680[21:45:34] <AdorableCatgirl> surprise
L681[21:45:40] <Izaya> SURPRISE
L682[21:45:42] <Izaya> that reminds me
L683[21:45:46] <Izaya> I need to fuck off all the BC pipes
L684[21:45:50] <Izaya> they're causing memory leaks
L685[21:45:52] <AdorableCatgirl> YEAH
L686[21:45:57] <AdorableCatgirl> MEMORY LEAKS LIKE A BITCH
L687[21:46:21] <Izaya> I wanna clone DistFS at some point
L688[21:46:26] <Izaya> but more flexible
L689[21:46:48] <AdorableCatgirl> i wanna like
L690[21:46:52] <AdorableCatgirl> actually make something in OC
L691[21:47:16] <Izaya> actual original source of DistFS: https://github.com/Sukasa/DistFS
L692[21:49:52] <Izaya> started cloning every OC-related repo I used to my gitea in case the original gets deleted, since Copper delet happened
L693[21:52:35] <AdorableCatgirl> no need to clone my hot garbage
L694[21:52:41] <AdorableCatgirl> first of all because it's hot garbage
L695[21:52:47] <AdorableCatgirl> second of all because it ain't going away
L696[21:52:58] <Izaya> don't worry I only clone stuff I'd use :^)
L697[21:53:08] <AdorableCatgirl> ah so basically
L698[21:53:12] <AdorableCatgirl> fuck all of what i've made
L699[21:53:55] <Izaya> I jest
L700[21:53:58] <Izaya> mostly
L701[21:54:07] <AdorableCatgirl> >mostly
L702[21:54:22] <AdorableCatgirl> name one thing i've made that you use
L703[21:54:45] <Izaya> uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
L704[21:55:15] <AdorableCatgirl> zorya is bloat, and i think that's all i've actually made
L705[21:58:17] <Izaya> BC pipes eliminated
L706[21:58:28] <AdorableCatgirl> thanks
L707[21:58:30] <AdorableCatgirl> i can finally join
L708[21:58:54] <AdorableCatgirl> i don't have my tweaked GC for some reason
L709[21:59:25] <Izaya> also
L710[21:59:28] <Izaya> full tank of biodiesel
L711[21:59:40] <AdorableCatgirl> bless
L712[21:59:52] <Brisingr Aerowing> Izaya: https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/exponentialistics-pipes
L713[22:00:02] <Brisingr Aerowing> Pipes with OC compat.
L714[22:00:06] <Brisingr Aerowing> Lots of cool features.
L715[22:00:17] <AdorableCatgirl> but yeah
L716[22:00:33] <AdorableCatgirl> my 1.7.10 modpack has some insane levels of GC args
L717[22:00:42] <Brisingr Aerowing> No fluid support yet, though.
L718[22:00:53] <Izaya> Brisingr Aerowing: neat, will investigate
L719[22:01:01] <Izaya> >seems to work with cubic chunks
L720[22:01:13] <Izaya> I sometimes wonder how MC mod developers would fare with Minetest's cubic chunks
L721[22:01:22] <Brisingr Aerowing> And now back to compiling a bunch of utilities for my portable Python dev environment.
L722[22:01:34] <Brisingr Aerowing> And I use that mod myself.
L723[22:01:48] <Brisingr Aerowing> Quite nifty. I like it's NuclearCraft compat.
L724[22:01:54] <Brisingr Aerowing> As I like NC.
L725[22:02:07] <AdorableCatgirl> remember
L726[22:02:19] <Izaya> Haven't got any nuclear in my pack, tends to result in power creep IME
L727[22:02:27] <Izaya> the thaumcraft compat is nice tho
L728[22:02:36] <AdorableCatgirl> never fuck up pipes when doing nuclear
L729[22:03:02] <Izaya> I really need to make a channel for my server
L730[22:03:05] <AdorableCatgirl> i somehow didn't connect the second stage of my coolant system
L731[22:03:13] <AdorableCatgirl> using RC
L732[22:03:21] <AdorableCatgirl> so yeah
L733[22:03:27] <Izaya> should I use esper or my own net?
L734[22:03:33] <Izaya> upside of my net: can connect to IRC via XMPP
L735[22:03:40] <AdorableCatgirl> oh shit
L736[22:03:49] <AdorableCatgirl> that sounds neat
L737[22:04:06] <Izaya> do service discovery on shadowkat.net
L738[22:04:34] <AdorableCatgirl> holy mother of christ
L739[22:04:36] <AdorableCatgirl> my ping
L740[22:04:43] <Izaya> sorry network is a little wonk today
L741[22:04:47] <Izaya> https://imgur.com/WtJnWsx.png
L742[22:04:57] <Izaya> presently can't connect to the server behind me
L743[22:05:16] * Izaya laughs manically
L744[22:05:36] * Izaya enters "minecraft.sks.local"
L745[22:05:36] <AdorableCatgirl> my network is always wonk
L746[22:06:10] <Izaya> Also, anyone know of a good server-side IRC mod for 1.12?
L747[22:08:04] <Izaya> https://img.pawoo.net/media_attachments/files/019/761/118/original/6fafc17804c9b51e.jpe
L748[22:09:13] <Brisingr Aerowing> https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/matterlink\
L749[22:09:16] <Brisingr Aerowing> ?
L750[22:09:32] <Brisingr Aerowing> I just searched IRC on CurseForge.
L751[22:09:39] <Brisingr Aerowing> That was near the top of the list.
L752[22:09:42] <Izaya> I mean, it'd work
L753[22:09:48] <Izaya> it's just a lot of set up when all I want to do is talk to IRC
L754[22:09:59] <Brisingr Aerowing> https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/devotion-irc
L755[22:10:05] <Brisingr Aerowing> How about that?
L756[22:10:22] <Brisingr Aerowing> Might be a bit better.
L757[22:10:28] <Izaya> looks more like it
L758[22:10:33] <Izaya> I remember using EiraIRC once upon a time
L759[22:21:14] <Ariri> :o golden ratio kitty
L760[22:23:29] <AdorableCatgirl> Izaya: how the fuck do i connect
L761[22:23:49] <Izaya> which client
L762[22:24:05] <Izaya> actually I can send you an invite
L763[22:24:17] <AdorableCatgirl> i'm a fuckin idiot, we both know this
L764[22:25:01] <AdorableCatgirl> i'm a fucking idiot
L765[22:25:01] <AdorableCatgirl> figured it out
L766[22:25:24] <AdorableCatgirl> yeah you'll have to send me an invite
L767[22:25:29] <AdorableCatgirl> gajim, ofc
L768[22:26:51] <Izaya> biodiesel tank full, refinery full, 50rf/t being pulled from the batteries
L769[22:26:54] <Izaya> nice
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L795[22:45:12] ⇦ Quits: jackie (jackie!~jackie@irc.chaosfield.at) (*.net *.split)
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L797[22:45:36] ⇨ Joins: Fridtjof (Fridtjof!znc@thonk.9net.org)
L798[22:45:36] ⇨ Joins: Corded (Corded!~MichiBot@eos.pc-logix.com)
L799[22:45:36] ⇨ Joins: feldim2425 (feldim2425!~feldim242@2002:3e2e:7a6d:0:b414:454f:8a54:f2a6)
L800[22:45:36] ⇨ Joins: AdorableCatgirl (AdorableCatgirl!~sam@pool-100-7-96-45.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net)
L801[22:45:37] ⇨ Joins: jackie (jackie!~jackie@irc.chaosfield.at)
L802[22:45:37] ⇨ Joins: Totoro (Totoro!totoro@fomalhaut.me)
L803[22:47:09] <AdorableCatgirl> nice
L804[22:56:57] <Paradoxical> woooooah wtf just happened to cause this amount of spam >.>
L805[22:58:16] <Heximate> going to assume the bot reconnected to the IRC room and thus it loaded all people in chat again, and dumps it as if they had joined instead of it
L806[22:58:29] <Paradoxical> ah
L807[22:58:34] <Paradoxical> makes sense
L808[23:02:25] <Brisingr Aerowing> https://imgur.com/gallery/Bt8sxc0
L809[23:28:24] ⇦ Quits: AdorableCatgirl (AdorableCatgirl!~sam@pool-100-7-96-45.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)
L810[23:33:29] <Mimiru> No, that was a netsplit and resync
L811[23:33:47] <Vaur> just a netsplit yes
L812[23:34:00] <Mimiru> an IRC server disconnected from the rest of the network, Corded was on one side, when it resynced it sent joins for everyone
L813[23:41:45] ⇨ Joins: ironmountain (ironmountain!~anon@45-27-234-67.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net)
L814[23:41:53] <ironmountain> epic win
L815[23:42:01] <ironmountain> exit
L816[23:42:02] ⇦ Quits: ironmountain (ironmountain!~anon@45-27-234-67.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net) (Client Quit)
L817[23:53:16] <Ariri> ok
L818[23:53:30] <Ariri> %tonk
L819[23:53:31] <MichiBot> Voldemort! Ariri! You beat CompanionCube's previous record of <0 (By 3 hours, 4 minutes and 42 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L820[23:53:32] <MichiBot> Ariri's new record is 3 hours, 4 minutes and 42 seconds! Ariri also gained 0.00308 tonk points for stealing the tonk.
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