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L1[00:07:26] <payonel> S3: i'm aware of the chunk loader option for load, as you realized, doesn't change the fact i pointed out that you can't set env on a function
L2[00:07:33] <payonel> only a string, that you plan to load
L3[00:07:54] <payonel> i really do know lua, you can trust me :)
L4[00:18:14] ⇦ Quits: Doty1154 (Doty1154!~Doty1154@2601:648:8000:134f:dda1:d648:42b5:7585) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L5[02:18:53] <Izaya> ~w computer
L6[02:18:53] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/api:computer
L7[02:24:41] <Izaya> Huh.
L8[02:24:46] <Izaya> computer.getDeviceInfo is cool.
L9[02:31:39] <Izaya> https://i.imgur.com/uZ7gt3b.png
L10[02:43:47] ⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv (ben_mkiv!~ben_mkiv@p4FED4B0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L11[04:18:01] ⇨ Joins: Inari (Inari!~Pinkishu@p5DEC6494.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L12[04:18:13] <Inari> %pet AmandaC's pawpads
L13[04:18:13] * MichiBot pets AmandaC's pawpads with AmandaC's pie. AmandaC's pawpads recovers 11 health!
L14[04:26:05] ⇦ Quits: marcin212 (marcin212!~marcin212@bymarcin.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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L16[04:45:13] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L17[05:29:30] ⇨ Joins: Turtle (Turtle!~SentientT@ip5657cbb2.direct-adsl.nl)
L18[06:26:44] * AmandaC glares at Inari for the rude Awakening
L19[06:26:55] <Inari> :D
L20[06:27:29] <Inari> Anyone here know Qt? Any way to get QTabletEvent if the tablet stuff happens outside my window/widget?
L21[06:33:36] <Izaya> woo, got the microtel rewrite to route again, and it's smaller again
L22[06:33:51] <Izaya> 80 bytes smaller, even
L23[07:06:40] ⇨ Joins: MajGenRelativity (MajGenRelativity!uid288574@id-288574.hathersage.irccloud.com)
L24[07:08:43] ⇨ Joins: Thutmose (Thutmose!~Patrick@host-69-59-79-123.nctv.com)
L25[07:13:32] ⇨ Joins: Dark (Dark!~MrDark@2607:fcc8:d48b:eb00:a98b:760c:1a0:4ea9)
L26[07:46:09] <Inari> https://twitter.com/rinamini/status/979567597224996869 so cute https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZgfiI9VMAAsgVC.jpg:large
L27[07:46:09] <MichiBot> Thu Mar 29 22:54:49 CDT 2018 @rinamini: citrus?? https://t.co/aNwTWM2qvo
L28[07:56:54] ⇨ Joins: SolaoBajiuik (SolaoBajiuik!~quassel@75.97.233.152.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
L29[08:01:43] <Izaya> hey MajGenRelativity, care to update your port numbers post to change MultICE Networking to Minitel when you have some time?
L30[08:01:56] <MajGenRelativity> Sure
L31[08:02:09] <MajGenRelativity> I'll do it either today or tomorrow
L32[08:02:12] <Izaya> Thanks.
L33[08:13:36] ⇨ Joins: BearishMushroom (BearishMushroom!~BearishMu@82-209-154-59.cust.bredband2.com)
L34[08:14:46] ⇦ Quits: Turtle (Turtle!~SentientT@ip5657cbb2.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
L35[08:16:01] <S3> Inari: you like that show....?
L36[08:16:17] <Inari> Dunno, haven't seen it :P
L37[08:16:34] <S3> I've stayed clear away from it lol
L38[08:37:02] <Inari> Wacom pls
L39[08:37:13] <Inari> Don't just install some supposed devkit and don't tell me where you put it
L40[08:44:13] * Skye tosses this into the middle of the room https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/whitelightninghq/skyvault
L41[08:44:15] * Skye flees
L42[08:53:09] * Temia pokes it with a stick
L43[08:53:27] * Temia curls up in Inari's lap.
L44[08:53:39] * Temia zzzmoo.
L45[08:54:25] <Inari> %pet Temia
L46[08:54:25] * MichiBot brushes Temia with the year 2017. Temia recovers 3 health!
L47[08:54:51] * AmandaC returns from the litterbox, sees her seat was taken, lays ontop of Temia
L48[08:56:37] <AmandaC> Good jorb Kickstarter: https://nc.ddna.co/index.php/s/r2RjFJcPZqrxAWf
L49[10:07:56] <Arcan> %pet Inari
L50[10:07:56] * MichiBot pets Inari with scj643's sanity. Inari recovers 4 health!
L51[10:11:25] <Forecaster> %jumble
L52[10:11:25] <MichiBot> either today it or I'll tomorrow do
L53[10:21:14] <Arcan> %choose today or tomorrow
L54[10:21:14] <MichiBot> Arcan: tomorrow
L55[10:21:21] <Arcan> ^=^
L56[10:22:01] <Arcan> %give MichiBot a gramophone needle
L57[10:22:01] * MichiBot accepts the gramophone needle and adds it to her inventory
L58[10:23:57] <AmandaC> %give MichiBot a gramophobe
L59[10:23:57] * MichiBot accepts the gramophobe and adds it to her inventory
L60[10:30:31] <Arcan> was that intentional
L61[10:30:35] <AmandaC> yes
L62[10:30:39] <Arcan> hehe
L63[10:30:42] <Arcan> %pet AmandaC
L64[10:30:42] * MichiBot pets AmandaC with Jelly Bombs. AmandaC recovers 9 health!
L65[10:31:07] <AmandaC> I misread "gramophone" as "gramophobe" an was amused at the mental image, so I added it
L66[10:31:13] <Inari> %stab Arcan
L67[10:31:13] * MichiBot stabs Arcan with a dangerous i doing [2] damage
L68[10:31:58] * Arcan watches the attack glance off his scales
L69[10:31:59] <Arcan> ow
L70[10:32:03] <Arcan> %pet Inari
L71[10:32:03] * MichiBot brushes Inari with a rebar. Inari recovers 8 health!
L72[10:32:09] <Arcan> %inv list
L73[10:32:09] <MichiBot> Arcan: Here's my inventory: http://michibot.pc-logix.com/inventory
L74[10:34:23] <Forecaster> %shell
L75[10:34:23] * MichiBot loads a magic mirror into a shell and fires it. It strikes TheCryptek. They take 18 damage. jfred and asie stood too close and take 7 and 6 splash damage respectively.
L76[10:36:27] <AmandaC> %blame @Forecaster
L77[10:36:27] * MichiBot blames @Forecaster for the existence of trolls
L78[10:41:22] <Arcan> %pet Forecaster
L79[10:41:22] * MichiBot pets Forecaster with festive medical bills. Forecaster recovers 4 health!, festive medical bills falls into a chasm.
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L82[11:42:33] *** alfw|Off is now known as alfw
L83[11:47:49] ⇦ Quits: pwootage (pwootage!~pwootage@new.pwootage.com) (Quit: Cya)
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L85[12:10:13] <S3> sooooooooo
L86[12:10:17] <S3> I want to test this out
L87[12:10:38] <S3> but it just so turns out that if I test it out without OC or ocvm, ocemu etc then I can't do non blocking stdin
L88[12:10:41] <S3> dafuq?
L89[12:10:56] <S3> I know lua is simple, but non blocking io should really be a feature.
L90[12:11:21] <payonel> what do you want to do while waiting on io.read ?
L91[12:11:21] <S3> oh well, I can still use select() from a c lib
L92[12:11:56] <AmandaC> I think S3 means in luac not oc or an oc emulator
L93[12:14:47] <S3> right. So I didn't want to write code to talk to the gpu to test processes
L94[12:14:55] <S3> so I figured I'd just run it in a lua 5.2 shell
L95[12:15:16] <payonel> S3: send debug messages via modem_message
L96[12:15:20] <payonel> to a machine that has openos
L97[12:15:24] <S3> oh you can do that?
L98[12:15:29] <S3> oh
L99[12:15:32] <S3> I see what you mean
L100[12:15:43] <S3> I thought ocvm modem was broken
L101[12:15:49] <payonel> it was, it's fixed
L102[12:15:53] <payonel> thanks to AmandaC
L103[12:16:17] <AmandaC> payonel: you might want to keep those two scripts I linked around, they seem to be a good litmis test for network bug discovery
L104[12:16:37] <AmandaC> maybe litmis is the wrong word. stress?
L105[12:16:59] <S3> oh so now I gotta do a git pull
L106[12:17:36] <AmandaC> payonel: if you ever decide to make some tests for ocvm, you're welcome to include them in it, too. :)
L107[12:18:18] <payonel> AmandaC: btw, i need to add a another layer of key_up emulation
L108[12:18:23] <AmandaC> payonel: oh?
L109[12:18:27] <payonel> i found that the current solution isn't quite good enough
L110[12:18:40] <payonel> yeah, i use idle time to send key_ups
L111[12:18:45] <AmandaC> ah
L112[12:18:58] <payonel> but that keeps some keeps down for a time
L113[12:19:02] <payonel> and that can confuse things
L114[12:19:15] <payonel> like, if you type [c][a][t][ctrl+w]
L115[12:19:26] <payonel> hoping to /cut/ the "cat" out, it'll ^c
L116[12:19:32] <AmandaC> oh!
L117[12:19:38] <AmandaC> That's what happens!
L118[12:19:57] <AmandaC> I didn't mention it, but I had noticed spurrious ^Cs and was confused where they were coming from
L119[12:20:05] <payonel> yep, so i just need to use a bit of recently-used in addition to timeout
L120[12:20:30] <Inari> Sometimes I hate a lot of modern software wants so much data :stuck_out_tongue: You can only acquire it via downlaod, for htat you need an account, with name/other info. And then during billing they want even more info. A few years ago you'd just buy the thing at a store and theres no info attached
L121[12:20:54] <payonel> Inari: indeed
L122[12:21:15] <Izaya> Just don't use software that asks for money or info
L123[12:21:36] <Inari> Izaya: Thats only an option if theres a competing software with the same features :p
L124[12:21:44] <Izaya> Only software that knows to call you by your street name and not ask any questions as long as the job gets done
L125[12:23:41] <S3> I think I might have to just play with the gpu
L126[12:23:52] <S3> but.. I haven't decided yet how access to the gpu will work.
L127[12:24:12] <Izaya> S3: expose log to _G
L128[12:24:21] <S3> ?
L129[12:24:23] <Izaya> In ocvm
L130[12:24:33] <S3> there's a log thing?
L131[12:24:35] <payonel> oh in ocvm
L132[12:24:36] <Izaya> There's a sandbox table somewhere
L133[12:24:41] <payonel> just use something like log = print
L134[12:24:46] <payonel> or cprint = print
L135[12:24:47] <Izaya> log=print
L136[12:24:49] <payonel> i call it cprint
L137[12:24:52] <S3> oh... nteresting
L138[12:24:55] <payonel> doesn't matter of course what you call it
L139[12:24:59] <payonel> obviously :)
L140[12:25:03] <S3> prints to that log file
L141[12:25:04] <S3> ?
L142[12:25:19] <payonel> S3: the "real" print outside the sandbox prints to the log, yes
L143[12:25:35] <S3> let's see...
L144[12:25:42] <S3> I gotta test this :D
L145[12:26:00] <payonel> it makes log lines like "[--vm--] foobar"
L146[12:26:31] <payonel> the print supports ...
L147[12:26:55] <payonel> but it doesn't like printing tables with recursion, just fyi
L148[12:27:02] <payonel> but it does serialize tables
L149[12:29:24] <S3> recompiling
L150[12:30:32] <S3> ok. so that's done. now I gotta think about how to get this print to work.. why do cprint= print if print() prints to log anyways, right?
L151[12:31:06] <payonel> S3: print is defined by openos, inside the sandbox
L152[12:31:12] <payonel> there is no print in the sandbox
L153[12:31:17] <S3> I'm not in openos
L154[12:31:18] <payonel> because machine.lua says print = nil
L155[12:31:22] <S3> I just have an init.lua
L156[12:31:22] <payonel> S3: i know that
L157[12:31:40] <payonel> you're speaking too fast without reading :)
L158[12:31:45] <payonel> the machine.lua says print = nil
L159[12:31:51] <payonel> so there is no _G.print in the vm
L160[12:31:57] <payonel> yes, you could say print = print
L161[12:32:18] <payonel> but i typically use a different _G name in the sandbox so that my openos work doesn't conflict with its own _g.print
L162[12:32:20] <payonel> _G*
L163[12:33:08] <S3> hm. so I can just go cprint = print and then do cprint("foo") in a blank init.lua and itl send to the log
L164[12:33:22] <payonel> yes
L165[12:33:28] <S3> oh you know
L166[12:33:32] <S3> I need to fix that ocvm issue I have
L167[12:36:55] <Inari> I need to find a good anime discord :p
L168[12:36:57] <S3> ok... works I dunno
L169[12:37:12] <S3> Inari: I watched too much anime recently
L170[12:40:43] <S3> uh
L171[12:40:53] <S3> cprint = print cprint("Testing")
L172[12:41:11] <S3> attempt to call global 'cprint' (a nil value)
L173[12:41:16] <S3> I think I'm missing something
L174[12:41:52] <payonel> S3: what is the system.machine setting in your client.cfg?
L175[12:41:57] <payonel> ["machine"]="system/machine.lua" ?
L176[12:42:08] <S3> oh I have to edit that?
L177[12:42:11] <payonel> no
L178[12:42:15] <payonel> i'm just asking :)
L179[12:43:01] <S3> there is no entry for machine
L180[12:43:14] <S3> and this is a brand new ocvm repo clone
L181[12:43:20] <S3> with a new instance
L182[12:43:23] <payonel> why? how? what the crap are you doing to your clients?
L183[12:43:50] <payonel> what is your `git status client.cfg` in the repo?
L184[12:43:59] ⇨ Joins: Cogitabundus (Cogitabundus!~HAL@122.15.77.140)
L185[12:45:16] <S3> Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/master'.
L186[12:45:30] <S3> working directory clean
L187[12:45:57] <payonel> ok, unset is fine
L188[12:46:04] <payonel> wasn't sure, but it is :)
L189[12:46:06] <payonel> anyways
L190[12:46:14] <payonel> you modified your ocvm/system/machine.lua ?
L191[12:46:22] <S3> I haven't
L192[12:46:29] <payonel> then where did you put cprint = print ?
L193[12:47:08] <S3> I was confused about that because it made no sense the way I asked, I asked if I just put cprint = print then cprint("foo") in init.lua and you said yes, I was like ...oooooooookay but I see no reason why thatl do anything
L194[12:47:09] <S3> XD
L195[12:47:53] <payonel> "<+payonel> the machine.lua says print = nil"
L196[12:47:59] <payonel> "<+payonel> so there is no _G.print in the vm"
L197[12:48:11] <S3> I just did cprint = print above print = nil
L198[12:48:19] <S3> wait is that gonna screw it?
L199[12:48:24] <payonel> no
L200[12:48:26] <S3> or will cprint not be nil
L201[12:48:28] <payonel> you're fine
L202[12:48:28] <S3> I forget
L203[12:48:34] <S3> okay time to boot
L204[12:48:48] <S3> I figured I had to modify some other file I was just confused heh
L205[12:50:59] <S3> so it looks like this now:
L206[12:51:04] <S3> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xARCbiFE/
L207[12:51:10] <S3> but it still says cprint is a nil value..
L208[12:51:53] <payonel> what is your eeprom code?
L209[12:51:59] <S3> default
L210[12:52:16] <S3> I haven't touched it yet
L211[12:52:27] <payonel> then it should work fine
L212[12:52:51] <S3> heh
L213[12:53:01] <S3> eeprom is bios.lua right?
L214[12:53:05] <payonel> yes
L215[12:53:48] <payonel> you know the ocvm has to shutdown and restart for it to reconsume the machine.lua
L216[12:55:10] <S3> makes sense, except I've never kept it alive because it doesn't boot yet without crashing anyways because well, cprint is not there
L217[12:55:11] <S3> lol
L218[12:56:25] <payonel> the sandbox table in machine lua _is_ _G in your vm
L219[12:56:42] <payonel> so, if print is nil, then you've goofed something else up :)
L220[12:57:14] <payonel> you could try cprint = function() end
L221[12:57:15] <S3> well lemme see
L222[12:57:54] <S3> it doesn't even like me
L223[12:57:56] <S3> :D
L224[13:06:19] ⇦ Quits: Cogitabundus (Cogitabundus!~HAL@122.15.77.140) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L225[13:07:46] <AmandaC> payonel: wait, machine.lua or the eeprom? I'm mildly confused
L226[13:07:56] <AmandaC> ( to restart ocvm fully )
L227[13:07:58] <payonel> machine.lua builds the sandbox
L228[13:08:16] <payonel> machine.lua is not . ..
L229[13:08:19] <payonel> um
L230[13:08:27] <payonel> no i take that back
L231[13:08:29] <S3> yeah print is nil even if I change print = nil to cprint = print
L232[13:08:30] <S3> lol
L233[13:08:33] <payonel> everything is re-read when you reboot
L234[13:08:40] <AmandaC> ah, haha
L235[13:09:18] <payonel> AmandaC: the client vm object is a stack object that completely goes out of scope when you reboot
L236[13:09:26] <payonel> so, yeah, ocvm fully recreates the whole thing
L237[13:09:35] <AmandaC> haha
L238[13:09:52] <AmandaC> that's good, I was concerned for a second that my auto-update might not have been quite working right under ocvm
L239[13:09:53] <S3> oh hey if I do cprint = function() end it works
L240[13:10:09] <AmandaC> It seemed to work fine in OC proper
L241[13:10:20] <S3> and when I change it back to cprint = print it works
L242[13:10:23] <AmandaC> ( I testedi n ocvm )
L243[13:10:23] <S3> wtf
L244[13:10:36] <payonel> AmandaC: i wrote most of this stuff over a year ago :)
L245[13:10:46] <AmandaC> haha, true
L246[13:11:11] <S3> OH WTF
L247[13:11:14] <S3> table.getn is deprecated?
L248[13:11:43] <S3> but yu can't do size = #(expr_that_returns_table) can you?
L249[13:11:54] <payonel> s/deprecated/obsolete/
L250[13:11:54] <MichiBot> <S3> table.getn is obsolete?
L251[13:12:11] <payonel> #t is fine if your table is a serial array
L252[13:12:15] <S3> if I have to do foo = expr then #foo I will be really angry
L253[13:12:18] <S3> and storm into #lua
L254[13:12:58] <S3> if #state["ready"] ~= 0 then
L255[13:13:01] <S3> so you think that works
L256[13:13:11] <payonel> yes, if it is a serial array
L257[13:13:18] <payonel> sequential*
L258[13:13:19] <S3> state["ready"] is a table
L259[13:13:24] <vifino> # is not a function.
L260[13:13:26] <S3> instead of the table state
L261[13:13:37] <AmandaC> %lua state = { ready = { 1, 2, 3 } } print(#state["ready"])
L262[13:13:37] <MichiBot> 3
L263[13:13:49] <S3> hm. wow. For once I am impressed with lua's parsing
L264[13:14:00] <S3> I never imagine Lua would ever work with complicatated syntax like th
L265[13:14:03] <S3> that*
L266[13:14:10] <vifino> Maybe if you'd learn it for once...?
L267[13:14:27] <payonel> shots fired
L268[13:14:46] <S3> vifino: It's been over a year since I even touched lua much
L269[13:15:12] <S3> It's likely something I knew about before
L270[13:15:26] <S3> I tend to forget little silly things like that when the old ways still work
L271[13:23:22] <Inari> %pet vifino
L272[13:23:22] * MichiBot pets vifino with cookie. vifino recovers 2 health!
L273[13:42:42] <S3> back
L274[13:43:16] <S3> GOOD NEWS EVERYONE
L275[13:43:56] <payonel> you realized you weren't saving your files before running ocvm again? :|
L276[13:44:57] <S3> no
L277[13:45:14] <S3> [--vm--] Welcome to S3IX, the cuccessor to DildOS
L278[13:45:30] <payonel> what was wrong?
L279[13:45:41] <S3> omg I just realzied how close S3IX is to another word
L280[13:45:48] <S3> and in the same sentence of dildos that just sounds awful
L281[13:45:53] <S3> time for a name change
L282[13:46:10] <S3> payonel: I will never know
L283[13:46:16] <S3> it says saying cprint was nil
L284[13:46:28] <S3> when it was cprint = print
L285[13:46:35] <payonel> and what it is now?
L286[13:46:40] <S3> so I changed it to cprint = function() end and that worked
L287[13:46:47] <S3> and then I changed it back to cprint = print and now it works
L288[13:46:53] <payonel> you didn't save the file
L289[13:46:56] <payonel> that's all there is to it
L290[13:47:07] <S3> I used vim, I would have had to
L291[13:47:26] <S3> I never ever do :q
L292[13:47:40] <S3> and I was running it on the same terminal as I was running it in
L293[13:47:51] <payonel> mmhm
L294[13:48:01] <S3> I think I just typoed print and never saw it
L295[13:48:09] <S3> but the world may never know
L296[13:48:30] <payonel> so where did this come from? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xARCbiFE/
L297[13:48:44] <S3> that was what I tried first before I realized I was a dumbass
L298[13:49:13] <payonel> ? that is the correct code, what do you mean
L299[13:49:13] <S3> now it just says cprint = print -- in boot/*_base.lua
L300[13:49:20] <S3> oh that didn't work at all
L301[13:49:41] <payonel> you are supposed to leave print=nil
L302[13:49:45] <payonel> the idea is that the vm doesn't have a print
L303[13:50:15] <S3> yeah but I figure for the purposes here itl never cause a problem
L304[13:50:22] <S3> so I now have cprint and print XD
L305[14:00:24] * payonel taps to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSjSozKL_EA
L306[14:02:21] <S3> wat
L307[14:02:23] <S3> I'm at work
L308[14:02:37] <S3> people staring the moment I click that
L309[14:04:12] <payonel> there's nothing wrong with that :/
L310[14:04:17] <payonel> i have it up, and i'm at work
L311[14:04:37] ⇨ Joins: AshIndigo_ (AshIndigo_!~AshIndigo@79-67-163-198.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
L312[14:07:40] <AmandaC> %ping
L313[14:07:41] <MichiBot> Ping reply from AmandaC 0.28s
L314[14:09:42] ⇦ Quits: AshIndigo (AshIndigo!~AshIndigo@79-67-163-198.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) (Ping timeout: 383 seconds)
L315[14:45:28] ⇨ Joins: Turtle (Turtle!~SentientT@ip5657cbb2.direct-adsl.nl)
L316[14:52:46] <augitesoul> Hello, my code has some weird error at line 30, even if I already enabled the internet proxy. Any idea of how I could fix it? I'll clean the whole code later, by the way https://pastebin.com/AYjptVse
L317[14:53:52] <Forecaster> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRVJCtREW38
L318[14:53:53] <MichiBot> IBM ThinkPad 701C: The Iconic Butterfly Keyboard | length: 13m 3s | Likes: 2,363 Dislikes: 12 Views: 882 | by LGR | Published On 30/3/2018
L319[14:57:50] <augitesoul> (ping me if you got any idea of what causes my issue)
L320[15:02:59] <payonel> @augitesoul what is the error you get?
L321[15:03:34] <payonel> hmm, probably:
L322[15:03:41] <payonel> %lua foo.bar()
L323[15:03:41] <MichiBot> main:1: attempt to index global 'foo' (a nil value)
L324[15:03:49] <payonel> that's probably the error you see
L325[15:04:00] <augitesoul> attempt to index global 'internet' (a nil value)
L326[15:04:02] <augitesoul> yeah
L327[15:04:24] <payonel> line 9, local internet = require("internet")
L328[15:04:35] <payonel> is in an if scope, from line 8 to 10
L329[15:04:47] <payonel> once you leave that scope, there is no var
L330[15:04:49] <payonel> e.g.
L331[15:04:57] <payonel> %lua if true then local i = 1 end return i
L332[15:04:57] <MichiBot> nil
L333[15:05:42] <payonel> there isn't a need for canInternet, really
L334[15:05:52] <payonel> just use the nil-ness of a variable named internet to tell you
L335[15:06:16] <augitesoul> I'm just checking if there's an internet card in the computer so it won't crash saying there's none
L336[15:06:22] <payonel> %lua local internet if component.isAvailable("internet") then internet = require("internet") end ...
L337[15:06:22] <MichiBot> main:1: unexpected symbol near '...'
L338[15:06:43] <augitesoul> ah, okay
L339[15:06:43] <payonel> @augitesoul that has nothing to do specifically with what i'm explaining about local scope
L340[15:06:53] <payonel> do you understand scope?
L341[15:07:39] <augitesoul> yeah, I guess
L342[15:07:57] <payonel> please read https://www.lua.org/pil/4.2.html
L343[15:14:53] <augitesoul> Thank you very much, now it works
L344[15:15:00] <augitesoul> I'll credit you, by the way
L345[15:16:06] <payonel> no worries
L346[15:16:21] <payonel> i get enough credit as it is
L347[15:52:35] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv (ben_mkiv!~ben_mkiv@p4FED4B0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
L348[15:58:34] <payonel> vifino: yo
L349[16:02:16] ⇦ Quits: SolaoBajiuik (SolaoBajiuik!~quassel@75.97.233.152.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
L350[16:05:32] <AmandaC> %choose a or n
L351[16:05:32] <MichiBot> AmandaC: n
L352[16:05:35] <AmandaC> :(
L353[16:05:49] <AmandaC> %choose a or g
L354[16:05:49] <MichiBot> AmandaC: g
L355[16:16:39] <Forecaster> %choose a-z or z-a
L356[16:16:39] <MichiBot> Forecaster: a-z
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L358[16:39:17] <Molinko> @payonel : so humble, so classy
L359[16:47:28] <Inari> Hrm
L360[16:47:48] <Inari> I wonder if the WinTab setup allows some window to listen to pressure events at all if it isn't the one the event happens on/in
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L362[17:28:19] <AmandaC> Inari: that would make sense, wouldn't it?
L363[17:29:03] <Inari> AmandaC: But it sucks :P
L364[17:29:38] <AmandaC> %choose anime or game more
L365[17:29:38] <MichiBot> AmandaC: game more
L366[17:34:54] <AmandaC> Nah, last episode of KB came out
L367[17:44:03] ⇦ Quits: Inari (Inari!~Pinkishu@p5DEC6494.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: 'As long as you get the point, it doesnt mattress.')
L368[19:15:27] <S3> nuuuuuuu
L369[19:15:39] <S3> I needed a trailer this weekend
L370[19:15:46] <S3> and the damn thing was stuck in a bank of ice
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L372[19:43:42] ⇦ Quits: SF-MC (SF-MC!~EiraIRC@131-191-86-130.as.clicknet.org) (Remote host closed the connection)
L373[19:45:53] ⇨ Joins: SF-MC (SF-MC!~EiraIRC@131-191-86-130.as.clicknet.org)
L374[19:51:40] <Saphire> Hm
L375[19:51:51] <Saphire> Might as well use IRC instead o..o
L376[19:52:36] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (Vexatos!~Vexatos@p200300556E187E796DE92E9B147D2034.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Insert quantum chemistry joke here)
L377[20:33:49] <S3> IRC is the best saphire
L378[20:33:58] <S3> It's simple.
L379[20:34:48] <Saphire> Too many discord servers <.<
L380[20:36:44] <Xal> too much discord in general
L381[20:37:43] <Izaya> ^
L382[20:37:51] <Izaya> There should be none.
L383[20:38:06] <SF-MC> I just want something simple and federated
L384[20:38:14] <SF-MC> and that's actually popular besides
L385[20:38:22] <Izaya> Matrix looks like it'll be decent, if far too HTTP-y
L386[20:38:35] <Izaya> Better than a lot of the other options, anyway.
L387[20:38:49] <Izaya> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI4pfjTCs3o Yesssss I've been waiting for this
L388[20:38:50] <MichiBot> RISCy Business - The Acorn RiscPC - ARM in a desktop | length: 20m 9s | Likes: 791 Dislikes: 3 Views: 9,704 | by RetroManCave | Published On 30/3/2018
L389[20:38:52] <Izaya> Skye: ^
L390[20:39:04] <SF-MC> I'm so tired of this shit - https://xkcd.com/1810/
L391[20:39:04] <MichiBot> XKCD Comic Name: Chat Systems Posted on: 3/13/2017
L392[20:39:15] <Skye> I used a RISC PC in a computer museum
L393[20:39:36] <Izaya> I should draw a diagram of this.
L394[20:40:30] <Skye> Izaya: sadly I'm only IRC. :p
L395[20:40:44] <Izaya> You had an XMPP account.
L396[20:40:49] <Skye> For a whole
L397[20:40:54] <Skye> Also github
L398[20:41:13] <Izaya> Github isn't really a communication tool.
L399[20:43:14] <Skye> True
L400[20:43:22] <Skye> Do you know my email?
L401[20:43:27] <S3> I have a challenge
L402[20:43:35] <SF-MC> email IMO kinda sucks though
L403[20:43:38] <Izaya> Don't think so.
L404[20:43:46] <SF-MC> It's fine for things that aren't quite so synchronous
L405[20:43:51] <Izaya> Email sucks for a lot of reasons, and a decent portion of them are thanks to Google.
L406[20:43:57] <SF-MC> But a chat platform it is not
L407[20:44:18] <S3> My challenge is to find information about the old RGB video signals. VGA has RGB components, but before VGA we had RGB cables for RGB monitors (yes, RGB monitors)
L408[20:44:32] <S3> I am looking for documentation of the signal used in RGB monitors opposed to NTSC / PAL
L409[20:44:56] <S3> Can't seem to find it anywhwre though because so many people refer to RGB as VGA nowadays
L410[20:46:13] <Izaya> Is composite the one with the 3 RCA connectors, one for red, one for blue and one for green?
L411[20:46:33] <S3> no that's component
L412[20:46:34] <SF-MC> I know composite as the single yellow one for all colors
L413[20:46:39] <Izaya> ah
L414[20:46:42] <Izaya> almost the same word
L415[20:46:43] <S3> and it's actually not RGB it's Yr Pr Yb or whatever
L416[20:46:44] <SF-MC> IIRC?
L417[20:46:46] <S3> which is a different color model
L418[20:46:57] <S3> IIRC is if I remember correctly
L419[20:46:57] <Skye> S3, eeeh that's not vga rgb
L420[20:47:00] <SF-MC> Close Enough(tm)
L421[20:47:10] <S3> Skye: hmm?
L422[20:47:10] <SF-MC> No, I meant 'someone please confirm'
L423[20:47:10] <Izaya> I have a monitor that can do 1080i, but not over VGA
L424[20:47:13] <Izaya> very inconvenient
L425[20:47:34] <Skye> Vga rgb literally split out red green blue hsync vsync
L426[20:47:47] <S3> Izaya: I have a monitor on my desk right now that can do 1536i with VGA
L427[20:47:48] <S3> :D
L428[20:48:02] <Izaya> S3: This is an ancient, cheap reverse projection TV
L429[20:48:03] <S3> er 1536p
L430[20:48:11] <Izaya> I need to use weird shit to get 1080i out of it
L431[20:48:17] <Izaya> otherwise I get 1024x768
L432[20:48:22] <Izaya> stretched to 1080i
L433[20:48:25] <Izaya> >.>
L434[20:48:28] <S3> Skye: but no yeah I'm not talking about VGA. I know how to generate a VGA signal
L435[20:48:39] <S3> I know how to generate NTSC signals too
L436[20:48:45] <Skye> Is this for a TV
L437[20:48:50] <S3> but I was curious how to talk to an oldschool RGB tv
L438[20:48:53] <Skye> Yeah
L439[20:49:09] <Skye> Let me look it up
L440[20:50:20] <Skye> S3, first, it's called component in the UK
L441[20:50:25] <S3> I was thinking I could buy one for my homebuilt computer
L442[20:50:33] <S3> Skye: component cables here are not RGB though
L443[20:50:50] <S3> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YPbPr
L444[20:50:52] <Skye> There's component and there's composite
L445[20:51:29] <S3> actually maybe they are, and just not the traditional 2D RGB?
L446[20:51:34] <Izaya> daaaaamn
L447[20:51:42] <Izaya> 233Mhz ARM chip drawing 1 watt
L448[20:51:42] <S3> OHHH
L449[20:51:45] <Skye> S3, Europe had an easy solution
L450[20:51:51] <Skye> SCART
L451[20:51:52] <S3> I'm thinking of YCbCr that's why
L452[20:51:57] <S3> YEs I know of SCART
L453[20:52:05] <S3> Ycbcr is not rgb but the component is
L454[20:52:07] <Skye> Has dedicated Rgb
L455[20:52:43] <S3> YPbPr is RGB ok
L456[20:52:48] <Skye> Is it?
L457[20:52:50] <S3> I ws thinking of the old NTSC color space
L458[20:52:51] <S3> yes
L459[20:52:55] <Skye> Oh okay
L460[20:52:56] <S3> iirc YCbCr is NTSC
L461[20:52:57] <S3> color
L462[20:53:01] <Skye> Explains the confusing naming
L463[20:53:02] <Izaya> what's the newest version of Windows you can run on a 486?
L464[20:53:05] <S3> which is like 1D rgb
L465[20:53:12] <Skye> Izaya Probably XP
L466[20:53:20] <S3> .....
L467[20:53:24] <Skye> XP can run on a 486
L468[20:53:25] <S3> No XP probably uses SSE
L469[20:53:31] <Izaya> And I know you can run XP in 128M
L470[20:53:32] <S3> lemme see
L471[20:53:34] <Skye> No it runs on a 486
L472[20:53:42] <Skye> I did it in an emulator
L473[20:53:45] <Skye> It's slow
L474[20:53:55] <Skye> Also SSE?!
L475[20:54:06] <S3> hmm...
L476[20:54:14] <S3> maybe it was service pack 3 that needed sse
L477[20:54:18] <Izaya> jhc if you split the memory in half on this RiscPC and gave half to the guest CPU you could run Windows XP on it
L478[20:54:22] <S3> sse was a Pentium III think iirc
L479[20:54:28] <Skye> It runs on a Pentium MMX
L480[20:54:32] <S3> Windows 3.1 will definately run on a 486
L481[20:54:42] <S3> I know that because I ran 3.1 as a kid on a 486
L482[20:54:44] <S3> that's what I had
L483[20:54:45] <Izaya> NT4 should work on a 486, right?
L484[20:54:48] <Izaya> Or 2000?
L485[20:55:05] <S3> I am not sure. I had NT4 on my laptop but I don't know if I had a pentium or a 486 in it
L486[20:55:12] <S3> it's been way too lon
L487[20:55:14] <S3> long*
L488[20:55:50] <S3> NT 4.0 works on 486.
L489[20:56:08] <S3> "Windows NT 4.0 shipped with support for the Dec Alpha, i486, MIPS and PowerPC CPU's"
L490[20:56:10] <S3> Izaya: ^
L491[20:56:18] <Izaya> Shiny.
L492[20:56:22] <S3> I had no idea
L493[20:56:54] <Skye> XP SP1 will run on a 486 with 64MB of RAM
L494[20:57:07] <S3> interesting
L495[20:57:15] <S3> It won't run very well....
L496[20:57:17] <Izaya> my 600X had a 500Mhz P3 with 128M of RAM and originally came with XP
L497[20:57:24] <Izaya> Not sure which version
L498[20:57:29] <S3> My friend is giving me a 486 PC
L499[20:57:33] <S3> because I want one again
L500[20:57:54] <S3> Out of ALL processors that Intel has made
L501[20:57:57] <S3> I think the 486 was the best
L502[20:58:18] <S3> It was a great 32 bit chip with built in floating point
L503[20:58:32] <Izaya> Too bad it was x86
L504[20:58:36] <S3> it was also the longest chip in production wasn't it?
L505[20:58:49] <S3> You don't need 64 bit support
L506[20:59:00] <S3> in most cases 16 was enough
L507[20:59:03] <Skye> When used without any other qualifications the term component video usually refers to analog YPBPR component video with sync on luma.
L508[20:59:17] <Izaya> Also excellent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRVJCtREW38
L509[20:59:17] <MichiBot> IBM ThinkPad 701C: The Iconic Butterfly Keyboard | length: 13m 3s | Likes: 5,019 Dislikes: 33 Views: 74,932 | by LGR | Published On 30/3/2018
L510[20:59:20] <Skye> S3, to basically it's red blue, and sync on green
L511[20:59:20] <S3> Skye: sync on luma? Not sync on green?
L512[20:59:25] <S3> ohhh
L513[20:59:30] <S3> luma and green are the same in this case?
L514[20:59:35] <Skye> I don't know
L515[20:59:48] <Skye> But that's what I can understand?
L516[20:59:49] <S3> I wonder if the component video si the same protocol as the old school RGB monitors though
L517[21:00:01] <Skye> Well sort of
L518[21:00:14] <Izaya> I wonder if IBM still holds the patent on the butterfly keyboard.
L519[21:00:18] <Izaya> Maybe Lenovo does.
L520[21:00:20] <Izaya> :|
L521[21:00:27] <S3> lol
L522[21:00:41] <Skye> Maybe the patent expired
L523[21:00:48] <S3> On VGA you have two porches that determine the screen resolution iirc
L524[21:00:57] <S3> and then you have RGB voltages during the horrizontal draw phase
L525[21:01:28] <S3> with NTSC you have front and back porches and sync signals and whatever else with a 1 dimensional color voltage / grayscale intensity voltage
L526[21:01:45] <Skye> S3, from my limited understanding, vga has two clocks, hsync and vsync.
L527[21:01:52] <S3> yes
L528[21:01:57] <Skye> And three colour channels
L529[21:02:04] <Skye> Red, green, blue.
L530[21:02:08] <S3> yep
L531[21:02:24] <S3> My home built compute currently has plans for VGA output
L532[21:02:27] <Skye> Old monitors are likely to be the same
L533[21:02:29] <S3> because VGA is easier than NTSC video
L534[21:02:36] <Skye> Unless they are old tvs
L535[21:02:42] <S3> right
L536[21:02:47] <Skye> In which case, it's sync on green
L537[21:04:22] <Skye> I might be wrong though
L538[21:04:27] <Skye> This is saying odd things
L539[21:04:35] <S3> OH OH OH!
L540[21:04:39] <S3> Skye: I just found it I think
L541[21:04:45] <S3> the oldschool RGB monitors were RGBI
L542[21:04:51] <S3> that helps a lot
L543[21:05:00] <Skye> Merge hsync and vsync
L544[21:05:06] <S3> the I part is confusing
L545[21:05:20] <S3> becauseI = (R + G + B) / 3
L546[21:05:21] <S3> lol
L547[21:05:27] <S3> so why does it even need it
L548[21:06:07] <Skye> That's... Luma?
L549[21:06:27] <Skye> sync on luma, where the Y signal from S-Video is used alongside the RGB signal only for the purposes of sync.
L550[21:06:40] <S3> in DIP, Luminance is not actually Intensity
L551[21:06:44] <S3> it's slightly different
L552[21:06:50] <Skye> You could probably stuff dummy data in there and it'd be fine
L553[21:07:06] <Skye> Hm
L554[21:07:07] <S3> hmm
L555[21:07:10] <Skye> I remember now
L556[21:07:18] <Skye> I got my PS2 with component
L557[21:08:17] <Skye> I could choose if it was YPbPr or RGB (sync on green I think)
L558[21:08:18] <S3> and svideo is just NTSC with seperated RGB from composite iirc..
L559[21:08:51] <Skye> And the same on the TV
L560[21:10:08] <Skye> S3, so... It isn't even consistent.
L561[21:10:20] <S3> oh?
L562[21:10:23] <Skye> It really depends on the monitor you get
L563[21:11:15] <Skye> Might be YPbPr or RGB of some king
L564[21:11:32] <S3> Well currently my design focuses on VGA
L565[21:11:37] <S3> but if I could do just plain RGB that'd be cool
L566[21:11:40] <Skye> I just remembered that it took too much configuration
L567[21:11:52] <Skye> On both the TV and console
L568[21:12:10] <Skye> Though it was nice to have a proper output for a PS2
L569[21:13:16] <Skye> Implement DVI, it basically seems to be a digital version of Vga. :p
L570[21:14:50] <Skye> (with the issue that it's TDMS)
L571[21:14:59] <Skye> (TMDS)
L572[21:16:41] <S3> Skye: VGA is super simple as it is, though I plan to ONLY support one resolution
L573[21:17:10] <AmandaC> %tell Inari https://i.imgur.com/dcUHaBG.jpg ?
L574[21:17:11] <MichiBot> AmandaC: Inari will be notified of this message when next seen.
L575[21:17:13] <Skye> . To ensure a basic level of interoperability, DVI compliant devices are required to support one baseline video mode, "low pixel format" (640 × 480 at 60 Hz).
L576[21:17:26] <S3> supporting more than one resltuon is pretty complicated
L577[21:17:42] <S3> well, the mode I am supporting is 640x480 what do you know
L578[21:17:53] <S3> because I can use 8x10 font
L579[21:18:23] ⇦ Quits: Dark (Dark!~MrDark@2607:fcc8:d48b:eb00:a98b:760c:1a0:4ea9) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)
L580[21:18:37] <Izaya> everything VGA supports 640x480
L581[21:18:48] <S3> 800x600 would be nice for 80 column but the problem with that, is that MUCH more video memory
L582[21:18:49] <Skye> The main problem with DVI is how the Heck are you gonna do TMDS
L583[21:19:03] <S3> I plan to use DVI but not for video
L584[21:19:20] <S3> DVI is a cheap connector and cable set and I plan to use it to connect PCB boards together for things like data busses :)
L585[21:19:26] <S3> neat trick eh?
L586[21:19:27] <SF-MC> lol
L587[21:19:31] <S3> there's like 30 pins per connector
L588[21:19:33] <Izaya> TMDS?
L589[21:20:09] <Skye> Dc balanced high speed
L590[21:20:14] <Skye> Also... When DVI was designed, most computer monitors were still of the cathode ray tube type that require analog video synchronization signals. The timing of the digital synchronization signals matches the equivalent analog ones, making the process of transforming DVI to and from an analog signal a process that does not require extra (high-speed) memory, expensive at the time.
L591[21:20:21] ⇨ Joins: Dark (Dark!~MrDark@2607:fcc8:d48b:eb00:90a1:b5cc:4c4b:f17d)
L592[21:20:32] <S3> I prefer analog video
L593[21:20:37] <Skye> Why not both
L594[21:20:39] <Izaya> DVI supports analog video, also.
L595[21:20:42] <Skye> Literally
L596[21:20:54] <S3> I just feel no need for digital video
L597[21:21:35] <S3> analog signals also generally travel farther
L598[21:22:12] <S3> If I used NTSC for my output, then I could easily add it to a carrier wave frequency and send it to my TV wirelessly..
L599[21:22:13] <Wuerfel_21> Digital video has the advantage of clearly defined pixels
L600[21:22:20] <Wuerfel_21> Digital TV tho
L601[21:22:24] <S3> but the problem is NTSC signals are complicated as fuck
L602[21:22:43] <Wuerfel_21> Digital TV is sortof suck
L603[21:22:55] <Wuerfel_21> Blocky artifacts everywhere
L604[21:23:06] <Skye> Cable lengthEdit
L605[21:23:07] <S3> https://cdn.hackaday.io/images/6292521462199722866.png
L606[21:23:22] <Wuerfel_21> Also, NTSC is simple AF
L607[21:23:39] <S3> also color is very difficult to achieve with NTSC in a stable manner usually
L608[21:23:42] <Wuerfel_21> Just requires goid timing
L609[21:23:54] <S3> the NICE thing is that if you screw up the color signalling of an NTSC signal it just becomes black and white
L610[21:24:04] <S3> which is why sometimes tv stations would be black and white if the signal was poor
L611[21:24:30] <S3> then you have lots of other sync issues which would cause rolling
L612[21:24:37] <S3> where the scren would roll like a carosel
L613[21:24:51] <Skye> PAL
L614[21:25:09] <S3> finally the resolution of NTSC is very weird
L615[21:25:20] <S3> PAL is an option, if this wasn't the US
L616[21:25:51] <Skye> Gosh
L617[21:25:59] <S3> PAL is pretty damn easy
L618[21:26:22] <S3> in PAL you also send your color data in long bursts
L619[21:26:25] <Skye> Importatvfromtheuk
L620[21:26:27] <S3> like 60 microsecconds or so
L621[21:26:34] <S3> NTSC is like 2.5 microseconds
L622[21:26:35] <S3> lol
L623[21:26:46] <S3> for the color burst stuff
L624[21:27:08] <S3> then you have 52 microseconds to send the actual data
L625[21:27:26] <Skye> I think... Pal, ntsc and secam have the same black and white design
L626[21:27:51] <S3> well NTSC color and black and white are the same iirc the difference is the color burst signal
L627[21:27:56] <Skye> However ntsc had the problem of being too squished as well as being the first
L628[21:28:01] <S3> voltage controls value
L629[21:28:40] <S3> the thing I like about VGA
L630[21:28:54] <Skye> Secam was the second, encoding it in a different way, I think basically hiding it within the black and white I thin
L631[21:28:54] <S3> is that you have massive horrizontal and vertical refresh porches
L632[21:29:14] <S3> so you can store a line on the screen in a buffer each hsync
L633[21:29:28] <S3> and fetch sprite information ahead of time during the vsync porch
L634[21:29:32] <Skye> Pal took secam but also stole some tricks from ntsc
L635[21:29:45] <S3> PAL is pretty clean
L636[21:29:54] <S3> iirc it's just two sync pulses and color info right?
L637[21:30:33] <Skye> I know you can recover pal colour from a black and white film made from a high quality tape
L638[21:30:50] <S3> NTSC and PAL probably almost require double buffered memory
L639[21:31:08] <S3> Skye: well yeah, same with NTSC
L640[21:31:14] <S3> the voltage determines the color
L641[21:31:41] <Skye> I know that pal looks broadly the same as ntsc until you look closer
L642[21:31:46] <S3> as long as the original signal was color
L643[21:31:49] <Skye> We talked about this before I recall
L644[21:32:03] <Skye> By film I mean
L645[21:32:16] <Skye> Film copy
L646[21:32:26] <Skye> Not magnetic
L647[21:33:01] <Skye> And you can use the artefacts to recover colour
L648[21:34:27] <S3> Skye: Ever seen this? https://eewiki.net/download/attachments/15925278/signal_timing_diagram.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1368220404290&api=v2
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L650[21:40:27] <Skye> S3, http://www.js-technology.com/technical/videosignals.pdf
L651[21:41:02] <S3> OOOoooOOO
L652[21:41:14] <S3> Life savah
L653[21:41:26] <Xal> S3: do you have a copy of the art of electronics on hand?
L654[21:41:30] <Xal> let me grab mine
L655[21:41:40] <S3> Xal: from radio shack?
L656[21:41:45] ⇦ Quits: Turtle (Turtle!~SentientT@ip5657cbb2.direct-adsl.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L657[21:41:50] <Xal> I'm fairly certain there's an appendix giving a rundown of video signals
L658[21:41:55] <S3> I do somewhere...
L659[21:42:04] <S3> but it's been a very long time since I've seen it
L660[21:42:06] <Xal> this one: https://artofelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/book_3rd.png
L661[21:42:18] <S3> Oh yeah that
L662[21:42:25] <S3> I don' have that one but I believe my father does
L663[21:43:08] <Xal> Appendix I: Television: A compact tutorial
L664[21:44:58] <S3> neat
L665[21:45:01] <Xal> some nerd seems to have scanned it in: http://online.universita.zanichelli.it/horowitz/files/2017/12/Appendice_I.pdf
L666[21:45:05] <Xal> not sure how legal that is but watevs
L667[21:45:11] <Xal> might be of relevance
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L669[21:46:51] <Izaya> Skye: it just occured to me
L670[21:46:53] <S3> The quality of that scan
L671[21:46:56] <S3> is amazing
L672[21:46:57] <Corded> * <Mimiru> yawns
L673[21:47:02] <Skye> Izaya: what
L674[21:47:02] <Izaya> the default tracker design in Haiku is perfect for OC
L675[21:47:23] <Skye> Oh?
L676[21:47:32] <Izaya> ignoring icons, the best way to represent open windows would be a list arranged vertically
L677[21:48:35] <S3> or no windows at all
L678[21:48:47] <S3> :>
L679[21:48:54] <Izaya> yes but like
L680[21:49:01] * Skye eats S3
L681[21:49:05] <S3> lol
L682[21:49:06] <Izaya> if you have a multitasking system you want to be able to use it well
L683[21:49:18] <Izaya> which means being able to switch between programs while they're running
L684[21:49:28] <S3> Ctrl a n
L685[21:49:32] <S3> that's what i do
L686[21:49:36] <Izaya> screen/tmux is a good setup
L687[21:49:36] <S3> and Ctrl a p
L688[21:50:09] <Izaya> and I do want to implement that when I rewrite PsychOS, but as part of the base OS
L689[21:50:22] <Izaya> so any tty instance can spawn any number of interactive sessions and switch between them
L690[21:50:28] <S3> DildOS
L691[21:51:00] <Izaya> but right now I'm basically stuck reverse-engineering KittenOS so I can try to port Minitel to it.
L692[21:51:15] <Izaya> Skye: would I be a bad person if I hijacked the bootloader and taped the embedded version onto it?
L693[21:51:20] <S3> I am currentlt trying to think about how to do my gpu handling in my OS
L694[21:51:29] <S3> how should I do it..
L695[21:51:44] <Izaya> It seems simpler than writing for this with no documentation
L696[21:52:13] <Skye> Izaya: oh dear god no
L697[21:52:21] <S3> whats kittenos?
L698[21:52:25] <Izaya> Skye: but it'd work
L699[21:52:35] <Izaya> S3: it's t20kdc's GUI multitasking OS
L700[21:52:38] <Skye> It's evil though
L701[21:52:49] <S3> of 20kdc wrote it
L702[21:52:52] <S3> then you know it's good
L703[21:52:55] <S3> he's a real thinker
L704[21:52:55] <Izaya> it has a lot of interesting ideas
L705[21:53:01] <Izaya> but no documentation
L706[21:53:07] <S3> heh
L707[21:53:17] <S3> well that's what man pages are for
L708[21:54:07] <Skye> The pinnacle of my achievement is an old version of openos catted together
L709[21:54:33] <S3> what about your networking protocol?
L710[21:55:26] <Izaya> Skye: I could add an event hook that sends messages
L711[21:55:41] <Izaya> have the embedded minitel load the KittenOS bootloader
L712[21:55:49] <Izaya> that'd work until there was documentation written
L713[21:55:52] <Skye> I never made a networking protocol past some prototypes
L714[21:55:55] <S3> I just had a thing I remembered
L715[21:55:58] <Skye> Which never did much
L716[21:56:12] <S3> didn't payonel or somebody implement framebuffers or something like it in the GPU?
L717[21:56:12] <Skye> I did encoding and decoding
L718[21:56:26] <Skye> Kinda
L719[21:56:47] <Izaya> S3: you can draw off-screen if the GPU supports it
L720[21:56:48] <Skye> Izaya: do that. Muahaha
L721[21:56:57] <S3> hmmmmm
L722[21:57:09] <S3> not all OC GPUs support drawing off screen?
L723[21:57:15] <Izaya> It's resolution-based
L724[21:57:28] <Izaya> you can draw off screen if you're displaying a lower resolution than the GPU supports
L725[21:57:30] <S3> oh.. so if yuo're running in a lower resolution then you have some leftover memory
L726[21:57:34] <S3> ic
L727[21:57:44] <S3> That's kind of lame
L728[21:57:44] <Izaya> then copy that area onto the screen
L729[21:57:49] <Izaya> better than nothing
L730[21:57:56] <S3> well it's great
L731[21:58:12] <S3> but it's only lame because well.. you have to handle it differently in larger resoltions
L732[21:58:26] <Izaya> If you had a T3 GPU with 80x25 you could hold 3 full-screen framebuffers
L733[21:58:47] <Izaya> plus the real display
L734[21:58:52] <S3> 80x25 is that a t1 resolution
L735[21:58:52] <S3> ?
L736[21:58:55] <Izaya> T2
L737[21:58:59] <S3> oh..
L738[21:59:02] <Izaya> 40x15 is T1 IIRC
L739[21:59:02] <S3> I prefer T2 res
L740[21:59:09] <Izaya> yeah 80x25 is best IMO
L741[21:59:11] <S3> because I personally can't read T3
L742[21:59:15] <S3> not well
L743[21:59:16] <Skye> Meanwhile I reminded myself how inadequate I am because I have done nothing useful. Ahahah.
L744[21:59:16] <Izaya> unless you're doing graphics
L745[21:59:19] <S3> T3 is too small
L746[21:59:32] <S3> well I can use unicode for graphics
L747[21:59:41] <S3> with braile :D
L748[21:59:44] <Izaya> S3: I can fit 160x50 but I prefer to set UI scale to Large and use a big 80x25 terminal
L749[21:59:54] <Izaya> considering nobody writes software for stuff I use except me it works well
L750[22:00:29] <Izaya> does anyone have a tiny implementation of bidirectional streams using shared objects by chance?
L751[22:00:30] <S3> I suppose I can write a process that stores memory in RAM or GPU depending
L752[22:00:32] <S3> for framebuffer
L753[22:00:47] <Skye> Why buffer
L754[22:00:52] <Skye> Like seriously
L755[22:01:03] <Skye> You have too much overhead
L756[22:01:10] <Skye> Just time everything right
L757[22:01:17] <Izaya> If you're not overlaying windows there isn't really any reason to do buffering
L758[22:01:23] <S3> Skye: well for one, tty switching
L759[22:01:39] <Izaya> ... that's a fair point.
L760[22:01:55] <Izaya> one GPU op is a lot faster than 25
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L762[22:02:23] <S3> I need to have a tty process handle ANSI
L763[22:02:33] <S3> and then from there, somehow spit to the GPU when needed
L764[22:02:47] <S3> fortunately it's not like talking to a VGA monitor
L765[22:02:54] <S3> it's not like you have to keep delivering the buffer
L766[22:03:03] <S3> only when state of GPU needs to be changed
L767[22:03:24] <Izaya> I was just going to buffer the stream
L768[22:03:39] <Izaya> keep the last 4096 bytes or so
L769[22:03:45] <S3> I can also not buffer the current screen unless the tty is switched
L770[22:04:02] <Izaya> feed it to the actual GPU driver when you display it
L771[22:04:05] <S3> to save on memory
L772[22:04:24] <Skye> Can one even read the screen
L773[22:04:28] <S3> moment yuo switch to another tty it takes the gpu memory and puts it back in the tty
L774[22:04:33] <Izaya> Skye: yes, one character at a time
L775[22:04:41] <Izaya> you can copy regions from off the screen though
L776[22:04:41] <Skye> . _.
L777[22:04:52] <Izaya> hence the appeal
L778[22:04:57] <Izaya> you draw to off-screen as a buffer
L779[22:05:00] <Skye> We need more vram
L780[22:05:02] <Izaya> then copy it to the screen in one operation
L781[22:05:07] <Izaya> indeed
L782[22:05:11] <S3> right. so I could have extra code to handle if you are in a lower res to prefer storing in GPU memory first
L783[22:05:34] <Izaya> someone needs to make GPU clones with double VRAM - double the horizontal res, because none of the screens support it
L784[22:05:41] <Izaya> so it's only useful as a buffer
L785[22:05:41] <Skye> Who wants to make a VRAMw
L786[22:05:46] <Skye> Spec
L787[22:05:52] <S3> I can do this with a memory location table and a library that determines where to store the memory when new memory is needed / needs to be moved
L788[22:06:22] <S3> I have another idea..
L789[22:06:57] <S3> what do you think of creating a library so that if you want to write processes such as drivers that may be unused for long periods of time the processes are stored on the OC disk and hibernate until needed
L790[22:07:11] <Skye> I am thinking of an idea for sharers
L791[22:07:14] <Skye> Shades
L792[22:07:20] <Skye> Shaders
L793[22:07:26] <S3> I can do this since the state of the process is repeatably passed to itself
L794[22:07:38] <S3> a library can just serialize a state table
L795[22:07:48] <S3> long as you aren't storing functions in it
L796[22:08:00] <Skye> Idea: process stacks
L797[22:08:06] <S3> ?
L798[22:08:10] <Skye> Each process has a stack
L799[22:08:21] <Skye> Currently executing program is popped
L800[22:08:35] <Skye> If you need to run a program after it, put it on the stack
L801[22:08:55] <Skye> Once the program finishes, the process pops the next
L802[22:09:12] <S3> It wouldn't be ard to do . right now they just recursively send themselves their state and yield
L803[22:09:50] <S3> processes don't share memory with one another either
L804[22:10:05] <S3> they send messages to eachother
L805[22:10:38] <S3> when one process sends another process a message, it puts the receiving process in a ready queue, and then the scheduler will pop it off when it gets to it
L806[22:10:54] <Skye> Maybe the process could give the next program a package
L807[22:10:57] <S3> processes are never put in the ready queue unless they have something to do
L808[22:10:59] <Skye> Of data it could use
L809[22:11:05] <S3> so a process never just continuously runs
L810[22:11:16] <Skye> Would be interesting for batch processing
L811[22:11:33] <S3> well, if you have supervisors and workers
L812[22:11:41] <Skye> And also for shells
L813[22:11:47] <S3> you can have the supervisor technically have a worker that stores the data to be processed
L814[22:11:59] <S3> and each process under the supervisor collects work to do from that worker
L815[22:12:19] <Skye> The OS could push a "do you want to log out" thing to run after the shell
L816[22:12:25] <S3> you wouldn't have the supervisor give out the work, because the only purpose of the supervisor is to reincarnate / kill worker processes
L817[22:12:42] <Izaya> maybe I'm looking at bidirectional streams wrong
L818[22:12:55] * Skye licks Izaya
L819[22:12:57] <Izaya> though using shared objects is faster than events
L820[22:12:59] <Izaya> :|
L821[22:13:06] <Skye> You taste of salt and alcohol
L822[22:13:21] <Izaya> What is that meant to mean?
L823[22:13:25] <S3> given this model of procress management, I'm trying to think of how to handle GPU access. I think what I will do is create a supervisor that watches tty process workers.
L824[22:13:29] <Izaya> It's 2PM I haven't even started
L825[22:13:47] <Skye> I'm sleepy
L826[22:13:54] <Skye> And can't think
L827[22:14:00] <S3> I can have a worker seperate from the ttys that hold the framebuffers
L828[22:14:10] <S3> so that the ttys can copy framebuffer to GPU
L829[22:14:18] <S3> and the ttys can crash without losing their data :)
L830[22:14:19] <S3> neat eh
L831[22:14:38] <S3> the framebuffer process is just a data registry so the likeliness that it would ever crash is very slim
L832[22:14:54] <S3> but if it did crash you'd lose the data of every tty... unless you had more than one framebuffer process
L833[22:14:56] <S3> one for each tty
L834[22:15:14] <S3> I think the cost of a coroutine is very tiny, so that may not be a bad idea
L835[22:18:26] <S3> Hmm. No! Better idea
L836[22:18:50] <S3> Framebuffer and tty state information in processes under tty supervisor
L837[22:18:59] <S3> and a tty handling library
L838[22:19:07] <S3> where you pass a tty PID and the work to be done
L839[22:19:50] <S3> library has code to do the actual work with the GPU.
L840[22:20:57] <Izaya> why is my cable not here :< I miss my third monitor
L841[22:21:12] <Izaya> why tf doesn't this have an extra DVI port on it anyway
L842[22:21:37] <Izaya> 3 Displayport, 1 HDMI, and one DVI.
L843[22:21:40] <Izaya> How obnoxious.
L844[22:21:55] <S3> DP is better
L845[22:22:04] <Izaya> Technically speaking, yes, it is.
L846[22:22:14] <Izaya> For my setup though, my monitors have either VGA or DVI.
L847[22:22:17] <S3> lol
L848[22:22:30] <Izaya> I previously had the DVI and two HDMI on my 690 in use
L849[22:22:33] <Izaya> wait no
L850[22:22:38] <Izaya> DVI, HDMI, and miniDP
L851[22:23:00] <Izaya> but this doesn't have miniDP because who tf uses that
L852[22:23:09] <S3> Apple
L853[22:23:20] <Izaya> they don't use it any more either though
L854[22:23:27] <Izaya> I thought they used Thunderbolt for that now
L855[22:23:30] <Izaya> but anyway
L856[22:23:32] <Izaya> my point is
L857[22:23:37] <Izaya> I need this cable so I can have my third monitor back
L858[22:23:43] <S3> iirc Thunderbolt and miniDP use the same connector though?
L859[22:23:45] <Izaya> but economy shipping from china is taking longer than usual
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L861[22:23:57] <Izaya> nah, Thunderbolt looks like USB-C while miniDP looks like Firewire 800
L862[22:24:22] <S3> then howcome my mac has a thunderbolt logo on the minidp port
L863[22:24:27] <S3> and connects to thunderbolt equipment
L864[22:24:37] <S3> but also does video
L865[22:25:28] <S3> I don't think minidp looks aything like IEEE 1395..
L866[22:26:09] <Skye> MiniDP is thunderbolt2
L867[22:26:17] <Izaya> not the big one, the little one
L868[22:26:23] <Skye> USB C is thunderbolt 3
L869[22:26:26] <Izaya> there's the one like USB with the ends cut off on one side
L870[22:26:34] <Izaya> oh
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L872[22:26:40] <Izaya> huh
L873[22:27:14] <S3> ic
L874[22:27:14] <Izaya> Skye: I might make a Minitel wrapper for whatever custom OS
L875[22:27:42] <S3> I don't think the stock minitel code will work well with S3IX
L876[22:27:51] <S3> because the style of coding is so different
L877[22:27:53] <Izaya> basically the embedded version with an extra listener to send messages, and it will load an init.lua
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L879[22:28:18] <Izaya> S3: Probably not, a custom version for each OS would be much better
L880[22:28:29] <S3> it would definately work
L881[22:28:35] <S3> it might just be an antipattern of flow
L882[22:28:38] <Izaya> but I figure something that injects events and listens for certain types should *work* if not work well
L883[22:28:38] <S3> we'll see
L884[22:28:51] <S3> I need to think of a superrvisor tree for networking
L885[22:29:35] <S3> Speaking of that.. how hard do you think it would be to support interfaces?
L886[22:29:59] <Izaya> Interfaces?
L887[22:30:03] <S3> some sort of thing that ensures you have the right stuff in your file to comply with spec
L888[22:30:06] <S3> for examle
L889[22:30:24] <S3> for networking I may want to support protocols, so like just for shits TCP and UDP, SCTP are examples
L890[22:30:35] <S3> I could throw those nto some sort of registered usable thing
L891[22:30:50] <S3> and then dispatch socket data to that process to be handled, but each process would have to have the same interface
L892[22:30:58] <S3> to ensure that it worked with the socket system
L893[22:30:58] <Izaya> Ah.
L894[22:31:24] <S3> If I can't, then I am okay with just writing very good documentation
L895[22:31:28] <S3> to explain what has to be done
L896[22:31:35] <Izaya> With PsychOS I just used a really generic system for sending packets - events were all "net_send",to,port,data
L897[22:31:45] <Izaya> That didn't consider sockets or anything though.
L898[22:32:36] <S3> I think sockets are a good idea, because what if you don't want to send to a modem
L899[22:32:42] <S3> what if instead you want to send out the Internet etc
L900[22:33:04] <Izaya> have a socket server also?
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L902[22:33:23] <S3> I'd have some sort of supervsior that holds sockets
L903[22:33:29] <S3> and each socket would be a PID you talk to
L904[22:33:33] <S3> each holding its state
L905[22:33:45] <Izaya> I was gonna suggest something that handled something like file handles but that works too
L906[22:34:11] <S3> technically speaking a socket can just be the same as a streamed file with extra features
L907[22:34:17] <S3> so the basic IO interface can be the same
L908[22:34:27] <S3> but things like connecting handshaking etc are different
L909[22:35:32] <S3> Izaya: in fact...
L910[22:36:00] <S3> sockets can hold state in their processes sure, but mabe they will hold no stream information
L911[22:36:06] <S3> instead, they will reference a stream PID
L912[22:36:14] <S3> which is no different than an open file
L913[22:36:21] <S3> that way the file IO is exactly the same
L914[22:36:35] <S3> a file stream supervisor
L915[22:37:40] <S3> I can use a link between the two processes, so if one should crash, both of them do
L916[22:39:18] <Izaya> ~w computer
L917[22:39:18] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/api:computer
L918[22:39:56] <Izaya> hm
L919[22:40:14] <Izaya> if my microtel wrapper is init.lua, what should I call the real init.lua it loads?
L920[22:41:14] <S3> boot.lua?
L921[22:41:26] <S3> kernel.lua?
L922[22:41:34] <S3> frankenstein.lua
L923[22:43:14] <S3> I need to think about how I will handle crash notices
L924[22:43:32] <S3> OH!
L925[22:43:42] <S3> nah bad idea
L926[22:44:30] ⇨ Joins: lp (lp!~lordpipe@66.109.211.167)
L927[22:44:35] <Izaya> https://i.imgur.com/yJQUYKp.png
L928[22:44:53] <Izaya> tape microtel-3 to the start of that and you'll have a wrapper for any OS
L929[22:44:54] <Izaya> :D
L930[22:44:55] <S3> I feel like this guy
L931[22:44:55] <S3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ilmmdIx91c
L932[22:44:56] <MichiBot> GRAMPY HAS IDEA LIGHT BULB P2 | length: 23s | Likes: 0 Dislikes: 1 Views: 73 | by MyFootage.com | Published On 24/5/2017
L933[22:45:49] <S3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDaZumKGskM
L934[22:45:49] <MichiBot> GRAMPY HAS IDEA LIGHT BULB | length: 20s | Likes: 0 Dislikes: 1 Views: 145 | by MyFootage.com | Published On 23/5/2017
L935[22:45:51] <S3> this one is better
L936[22:47:34] <S3> heh
L937[22:49:27] <S3> Izaya: I was thinking the other day maybe instead of using UUIDs for networking using 7 character SHA1
L938[22:49:31] <S3> of the UUID
L939[22:49:38] <S3> easier to type
L940[22:49:51] <Izaya> I mean
L941[22:49:57] <Izaya> you could just sub the first 7 chars
L942[22:49:58] <Izaya> or 8
L943[22:50:07] <S3> I suppose
L944[22:50:54] <S3> I wonder how I should handle ports
L945[22:50:59] <S3> some protocols use them
L946[22:51:05] <S3> (the modem ports)
L947[22:51:17] <S3> but some don't, and just have to be on some partucular port for the entire protocol
L948[22:51:39] <Izaya> mfw
L949[22:51:41] <Izaya> it worked first go
L950[22:51:54] <S3> lol
L951[22:53:48] ⇨ Joins: DarkCow (DarkCow!~MrDark@2607:fcc8:d48b:eb00:2c9e:d101:f326:2d09)
L952[22:54:03] ⇦ Quits: Dark (Dark!~MrDark@2607:fcc8:d48b:eb00:90a1:b5cc:4c4b:f17d) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)
L953[22:55:52] <S3> I am holding this book by the same author
L954[22:55:53] <S3> https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780675213097-us.jpg
L955[22:55:54] <S3> EXCRPT
L956[22:55:57] <S3> except*
L957[22:56:03] <S3> the one I have is 286 386 486
L958[22:56:07] <S3> so newer volume I think
L959[22:56:10] <S3> looks the same otherwise
L960[22:56:17] <S3> great book
L961[22:57:22] <S3> Don't you hate it when you binge watch some anime
L962[22:57:29] <S3> like most the way one day
L963[22:57:41] <S3> and then realize when you come back to it you only have a few episodes left
L964[23:02:31] <Izaya> YES
L965[23:02:40] <Izaya> Skye: I can push packets from KittenOS
L966[23:02:50] <Skye> Oh God
L967[23:03:12] <Izaya> in addition
L968[23:03:49] <Izaya> to push packets I have to do 'local computer = neo.requireAccess("k.computer","test")'
L969[23:04:00] <Izaya> unsure what "test" does but a lot of the other code has it
L970[23:04:07] <Izaya> or at least, some string there
L971[23:07:44] <Izaya> Huh.
L972[23:07:46] <Izaya> Okay.
L973[23:07:54] <Izaya> Positions are wrong.
L974[23:07:56] <Izaya> Excellent.
L975[23:08:03] <Izaya> I can't drag windows around on a T3 screen.
L976[23:12:15] <Izaya> Looks like libraries work normally-ish.
L977[23:12:47] <Izaya> Should be able to port the normal OpenOS network library to here.
L978[23:23:26] ⇦ Quits: SuperCoder79 (SuperCoder79!uid276919@id-276919.tooting.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
L979[23:25:51] <Izaya> I don't understand how libraries are meant to work.
L980[23:41:21] ⇦ Quits: glasspelican (glasspelican!~quassel@ktnron060ww-lp130-04-76-67-126-214.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)
L981[23:44:38] <Izaya> Okay.
L982[23:44:43] <Izaya> I don't know how to do this.
L983[23:44:49] <Izaya> The library itself is fine, I guess.
L984[23:45:00] <Izaya> I can't make another program include it, though.
L985[23:45:23] <Izaya> require has no effect, nor neo.requireAccess
L986[23:45:43] ⇨ Joins: glasspelican (glasspelican!~quassel@ktnron060ww-lp130-04-76-67-126-214.dsl.bell.ca)
L987[23:48:07] <Izaya> Oh well, at least the basic concept works I guess.
L988[23:51:10] <Izaya> I'm a bad person. https://github.com/ShadowKatStudios/OC-Minitel/blob/master/Embedded/init-wrapper.lua
L989[23:52:30] <coderboy14> Hey. Two questions. How do I join this IRC, and anyone know how to use the what I presume to be PGP with the Data library?
L990[23:54:48] <Izaya> IRC is irc://irc.esper.net/#oc or https://webchat.esper.net/?channels=oc
L991[23:55:07] <Izaya> ~w data
L992[23:55:07] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component:data
L993[23:55:21] <Izaya> No example code on that page :|
L994[23:55:49] <Izaya> Basically: component = require "component"
L995[23:55:53] <Izaya> data = component.data
L996[23:55:58] <Izaya> data.whatever
L997[23:56:10] <Izaya> data.whatever(arguments, and, stuff) rather
L998[23:56:30] <coderboy14> Yah, I get that. I just don't really understand how to use the public and private keys to encrypt and decrypt.
L999[23:56:57] ⇨ Joins: coderboy14 (coderboy14!~coderboy1@c-71-58-206-230.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
L1000[23:57:57] <Izaya> not 100% sure tbh
L1001[23:58:06] <Izaya> Stick around and somebody will know.
L1002[23:58:13] <coderboy14> hopefullyI'm creating a city thing in my game, and I want to use that for t
L1003[23:58:18] <coderboy14> Hopefully.
L1004[23:59:25] <coderboy14> lol, I haven't used IRC for a while, so I kinda suck at it. Haha. I was hoping it would be simply, just a function that says "encrypt(friendsPublicKey,msg)" and "decrypt(yourPrivateKey, encodedMessage)"
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