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L70[01:23:24] <Izaya> https://i.imgur.com/gVYC9hT.jpg
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L76[01:26:40] <Guest29159> AmandaC: i have
a timeout-controllable key-up handler now
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L82[01:26:59] <payonel> AmandaC: o/
L83[01:27:16] <payonel> and i was able to
get rid of the recentely-pressed-codes cache
L84[01:27:19] <payonel> recently*
L85[01:27:31] <payonel> so that it doesn't
have to fake key-ups after N key presses
L86[01:28:09] <payonel> ha! no more
"stuck ^C"
L87[01:28:55] <payonel> AmandaC: should i
also send key-ups for modifiers?
L88[01:29:03] <payonel> i'm doing that now,
but i'm not sure that's the best experience
L89[01:29:06] <payonel> like SHIFT
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L91[01:29:47] <payonel> yeah, i think i
should
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L95[01:40:28] *
Izaya shudders
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L98[01:41:01] 
<Forecaster>
Works on Not Always Related
<Forecaster>
Works on Not Always RelatedL99[01:41:02] <Forecaster>
:P
<Forecaster>
:PL100[01:41:50] <Izaya> o.o
L101[01:42:59] <Forecaster>
Canyada
<Forecaster>
CanyadaL102[01:49:03] ⇦
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L103[01:50:53] <Kiritow>
how to write a real-time control program with oc
<Kiritow>
how to write a real-time control program with ocL104[01:50:57]
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L105[01:52:39] <payonel> @kiritow tick
precise real time?
L106[01:52:48] <payonel> we don't promise
your machines will run every tick
L107[01:53:08] <Kiritow> i
am writing something to control the high speed train
system...
<Kiritow> i
am writing something to control the high speed train
system...L108[01:54:15] <Kiritow>
what if i change the thread nunber in config?
<Kiritow>
what if i change the thread nunber in config?L109[01:55:22] <Kiritow>
will more threads reduce the response time?
<Kiritow>
will more threads reduce the response time?L110[01:59:02] <Forecaster>
what do you mean "control"?
<Forecaster>
what do you mean "control"?L111[02:00:38]
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L114[02:02:46] <Kiritow>
emmm... sometimes I don't want slow these high speed trains
<Kiritow>
emmm... sometimes I don't want slow these high speed trainsL115[02:02:58] <Kiritow>
just let it pass the station in high speed
<Kiritow>
just let it pass the station in high speedL116[02:03:35] <Kiritow>
and sometimes it should stop at the station
<Kiritow>
and sometimes it should stop at the stationL117[02:03:48] <Kiritow> so
it must be slowed down
<Kiritow> so
it must be slowed downL118[02:05:10] <Forecaster>
you can use routing for that
<Forecaster>
you can use routing for thatL119[02:06:03] <Kiritow>
routing and redstone..?
<Kiritow>
routing and redstone..?L120[02:06:20] <Forecaster>
I'm assuming you're talking about Railcraft high-speed trains
<Forecaster>
I'm assuming you're talking about Railcraft high-speed trainsL121[02:07:29] <payonel> %tell vexatos if
1-based arrays made sense, lua's modulus should also be 1-based
:P
L122[02:07:29] <MichiBot> payonel: vexatos
will be notified of this message when next seen.
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L125[02:15:47] <Kiritow>
thanks, i will try it later.
<Kiritow>
thanks, i will try it later.L126[02:40:09] ⇦
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L129[03:07:35] <Izaya> This is one of
those cases of "but why"?
L130[03:07:54] <Izaya> Fairly high system
requirements, too.
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L132[03:08:42] <Forecaster>
"why not"
<Forecaster>
"why not"L133[03:08:43] <Forecaster>
:P
<Forecaster>
:PL134[03:09:00] <Izaya> ...Right.
Continue.
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L137[03:16:07] <Inari> .
L138[03:16:39] <Inari> AmandaC: haha
L140[03:21:17] <Inari> plottwist
L141[03:21:21] <Inari> their hands
transform into genitals
L142[03:22:54] <Forecaster>
dun dun
<Forecaster>
dun dunL143[03:23:03] ⇦
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L144[03:23:06] <Forecaster>
%jumble ^
<Forecaster>
%jumble ^L145[03:23:06] <MichiBot> transform their
hands into genitals
L146[03:23:25] <Forecaster>
haha
<Forecaster>
hahaL147[03:23:43] <Forecaster>
that's a first xD
<Forecaster>
that's a first xDL148[03:24:23] ⇦
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L151[03:34:59] <Inari> https://imgur.com/gallery/xnJqglS Pretty
L152[03:48:31] <Forecaster>
nice
<Forecaster>
niceL154[03:51:20] <Forecaster>
wi-fi-headache
<Forecaster>
wi-fi-headacheL155[04:05:03] ⇦
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L157[04:14:21] <Inari> Whenever I see
somethig liek "d***" I have to stop and think for a
moment, because I don't consider "damn" something
censorworthy
L158[04:14:26] <Inari> So I'm like
L159[04:14:35] <Inari> "Your dick
wifi? That doesn't sound right"
L160[04:15:36] <Forecaster>
that's an issue with my de-censor script, they're too ambiguous
sometimes
<Forecaster>
that's an issue with my de-censor script, they're too ambiguous
sometimesL161[04:30:48] ⇦
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L165[04:45:48]
zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
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L172[05:07:13] <Inari> %give MichiBot a
golden boy
L173[05:07:13] *
MichiBot accepts the golden boy and adds it to her
inventory
L174[05:08:51] <Inari> %search ud golden
boy
L175[05:08:51] <MichiBot> Inari: Unknown
sub-command 'ud' (Try: google, curseForge, wiki, urban, ann,
youtube)
L176[05:08:54] <Inari> %search urban
golden boy
L177[05:08:55] <MichiBot> Inari: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=golden
boy - *Urban Dictionary: golden boy*: "The person whom appears
to have an untarnished record of any kind. Most people considered a
golden boy actually do have many flaws and are not what they
appear."
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L185[05:47:04] <Forecaster>
%jumble
<Forecaster>
%jumbleL186[05:47:04] <MichiBot> with script, an
my that's de-censor too they're issue ambiguous sometimes
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L195[06:50:14] <Inari> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKUGTE_iPkA&feature=em-uploademail
that thumbnail though
L196[06:50:14] <MichiBot>
明日から使える生活の裏ワザ３連発〜綺麗に〇〇したい編【便利ライフハック】 | length: 2m
11s | Likes: 34 Dislikes:
2 Views: 279 | by 【Benri
Lifehack】便利ライフハック | Published On 28/3/2018
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L198[06:53:44] <Inari> AmandaC: Apparenlty
some sources/titles call them Palico instead of Felyne, maybe your
brain somehow combined those two terms to Purrline :P
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L201[06:59:09] <Forecaster>
"life hacks"
<Forecaster>
"life hacks"L202[07:02:12] <Wuerfel_21>
Lyf haxxxx
<Wuerfel_21>
Lyf haxxxxL203[07:02:23] ⇦
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L204[07:03:14] <Forecaster>
%jubmle
<Forecaster>
%jubmleL205[07:03:18] <Forecaster>
dangit
<Forecaster>
dangitL206[07:03:21] <Forecaster>
%jumble
<Forecaster>
%jumbleL207[07:03:21] <MichiBot> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKUGTE_iPkA&feature=em-uploademail
that thumbnail though
L208[07:03:34] <Forecaster>
huh
<Forecaster>
huhL209[07:03:45] <Forecaster>
well MichiBot seems to like it
<Forecaster>
well MichiBot seems to like itL210[07:03:59]
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L220[07:34:50] <Izaya> %remindme 1h
bins
L221[07:34:50] <MichiBot> I'll remind you
about "bins" at 03/28/2018 08:34:50 AM
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L227[07:55:09] <Forecaster>
%juggle
<Forecaster>
%juggleL228[07:55:09] *
MichiBot juggles with Pillows, a dangerous -1, & a lovechild of
chess and shogi
L229[07:55:10] *
MichiBot doesn't drop anything
L230[07:55:11] <MichiBot> In yo
face!
L231[07:55:27] <Forecaster>
D:
<Forecaster>
D:L232[08:00:31] *
Arcan takes the square root of a dangerous -1
L233[08:00:37] *
Arcan hands Forecaster a dangerous i
L234[08:02:16] <Forecaster>
%inv add a dangerous i
<Forecaster>
%inv add a dangerous iL235[08:02:16] *
MichiBot summons 'a dangerous i' and adds to her inventory. I could
get some good swings in with this.
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L239[08:34:51] <MichiBot> Izaya REMINDER:
bins
L240[08:34:59] <Izaya> fug
L241[08:39:02] <Temia> No no, obviously
it's the evil i
L242[08:57:29] <Forecaster>
the evil aye
<Forecaster>
the evil ayeL243[09:20:03] ⇦
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L246[09:44:59] <Inari> %pet Temia
L247[09:44:59] *
MichiBot pets Temia with a dangerous i. Temia recovers 7
health!
L248[09:45:41] <AmandaC> D:
L249[09:46:05] *
AmandaC beams a bucket-worth of holy water above Temia, to purify
her
L250[09:46:25] *
Temia acktph
L251[09:46:58] *
AmandaC caries a towel over to Temia, cuddles up
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L256[10:33:23] <Arcan> %inv list
L257[10:33:23] <MichiBot> Arcan: Here's my
inventory: http://michibot.pc-logix.com/inventory
L258[10:33:28] <Arcan> %pet AmandaC
L259[10:33:28] *
MichiBot pets AmandaC with depression. AmandaC recovers 6
health!
L260[10:33:32] <Arcan> um...
L261[10:40:56] <payonel> AmandaC o/
L262[10:41:08] <AmandaC> payonel: seems to
be working pretty good
L263[10:41:18] <payonel> woo!
L264[10:41:18] <AmandaC> payonel: is there
an ocvm equivilent to ctrl-alt-shift-c?
L265[10:41:35] <payonel> AmandaC: i should
at least make the "abort" configurable
L266[10:41:45] <payonel> and you mean
ctrl+alt+c probably
L267[10:42:10] <AmandaC> ah
L268[10:42:12] <payonel> AmandaC: did i
explain why escape and ctrl+alt+c aborts? they send the same
code
L269[10:42:14] <AmandaC> but yeah
L270[10:42:34] <AmandaC> ah, that explains
why it's closing entirely.
L271[10:42:56] <AmandaC> The program I'm
working on is hanging in specific cases, and I'm not able to debug
it with just ctrl-c
L272[10:44:37] <AmandaC> payonel: also,
why do you limit the codes in unicoe.char to &FFFF -- there's
codes in font.hex for astral plane stuff it seems
L273[10:45:35] <payonel> AmandaC: yes, but
oc can't do more than -0xffff
L274[10:45:46] <AmandaC> oh?
L275[10:45:47] <payonel> s/-//
L276[10:45:47] <MichiBot> <payonel>
AmandaC: yes, but oc can't do more than 0xffff
L277[10:45:56] <AmandaC> I assumed that
the font.hex was specific to OC
L278[10:45:57] <payonel> i didnt mean - :/
not sure why i used that
L279[10:46:06] <payonel> AmandaC: it is,
but it also goes further than oc can do
L280[10:46:16] <payonel> well, it's not
entirely specific to oc
L281[10:46:21] <payonel> we get it from a
project asie made
L282[10:47:23] <AmandaC> is the ctrl-alt-c
handled by openos?
L283[10:47:41] <payonel> yes
L284[10:47:43] <AmandaC> ah
L285[10:50:58] <payonel> AmandaC: funny
story
L286[10:51:50] <payonel> AmandaC: git
pull
L287[10:52:11] <AmandaC> payonel: ah,
nice
L288[10:52:54] <payonel> i have a few
{194, *} in that ctrl+alt range
L289[10:52:59] <payonel> i wonder if i
messed those up
L290[10:53:03] <payonel> i'll have to
review
L291[10:53:23] <payonel> anyways, sorry
:(
L292[10:53:33] <AmandaC> Hrm
L293[10:53:38] <payonel> but yay we have
ctrl+alt+c now :|
L294[10:53:40] <payonel> hrm?
L295[10:53:53] <AmandaC> I might be
misusing the thread API
L296[10:53:58] <AmandaC> lemme upload my
code rq
L297[10:56:04] <AmandaC> payonel: https://gitlab.darkdna.net/amanda/oc-fileserver/blob/master/lilac-ui/lib/screens/network-discovery.lua#L32-45
screen:deactivate() seems to be failing to kill the thread started
in screen:activate, so when I load that screen my program hangs
when I try and close it
L298[10:57:34] <AmandaC> Close the
program. Th eprogram chugs along fine if I navigate away (which
also causes a screen:deactivate call)
L299[10:57:55] <payonel> kill() should
cause the thread to die as soon as it yields again, or if it is
currently yielding, it'll never wake up
L300[10:58:02] <payonel> i'm reviewing
your code
L301[10:58:06] <AmandaC> sure. :)
L302[10:58:18] <AmandaC> This is under
latest 1.7.2 openos, fyi
L303[10:58:21] <payonel> yeah, so that
sleep should be its end of life
L304[10:58:46] <AmandaC> When I use
ctrl-alt-c I get "[thread] interrupted" put into
/tmp/event.loc
L305[10:58:48] <payonel> and you find that
it continues to execute?
L306[10:59:00] <payonel> yeah, threads
don't handle aborts well, yet
L307[10:59:12] <payonel> i'm still
thinking through a nice api way to handle aborted threads
L308[10:59:18] <payonel> i mean, they
clean themselves up, and the rules apply
L309[10:59:26] <payonel> but, you may not
know they died
L310[10:59:30] <payonel> i'm not making a
lot of sense
L311[10:59:34] <payonel> let me continue
to read your code
L312[10:59:51] <AmandaC> payonel: it seems
the thread doesn't want to die properly
L313[11:00:02] <payonel> let me rephrase
things
L314[11:00:45] <payonel> thread management
is well defined, there are no "undefined behaviors" with
aborts or otherwise
L315[11:00:53] <payonel> what IS
un...supported
L316[11:01:11] <payonel> is having a user
code callback or notification that a thread aborted
L317[11:01:25] <payonel> the thread
library, and the process know, i haven't provided a hook for that
yet
L318[11:01:35] <payonel> another point to
make -
L319[11:01:52] <payonel> when you send a
hard interrupt, the event library throws an exception, aborting the
current thread
L320[11:01:55] <payonel> it doesn't abort
ALL threads
L321[11:02:27] <payonel> so if your
noti_thread is the current thread when the abort occurs, that would
be the only thread aborted
L322[11:02:39] <AmandaC> Hrm. When I sent
a normal interrupt my program hangs, apparently during
cleanup
L323[11:03:11] <payonel> AmandaC: this is
an area i would like to improve, btw
L324[11:03:32] <payonel> for example, hard
interrupts should abort threads and up the chain
L325[11:03:40] <payonel> to some
meaningful parent
L326[11:03:51] <payonel> or perhaps all
the way until it is "handled"
L327[11:03:53] <payonel> like
signals
L328[11:04:03] <payonel> perhaps the shell
handles it
L329[11:04:10] <AmandaC> OKay, it seems my
hunch was off.
L330[11:04:20] <payonel> and perhaps it is
opt-in, like real life
L331[11:04:43] <AmandaC> I just made it so
the screen shows something static as long as it believes the thread
is running (self.noti_thread ~= nil ) and it properly goes away
when `deactivate()` is called
L332[11:04:48] <payonel> i'll give it some
thought
L333[11:04:54] <payonel> i have to
go
L334[11:04:57] <AmandaC> sure.
L335[11:05:19] <AmandaC> the fixing of
ctrl-alt-c is plenty for now, gives me an easier debug flow than
"kill the instance entirely"
L336[11:05:25] <AmandaC> I'll sprinkle
some logging around my code
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L338[11:29:43] <AmandaC> payonel: figured
it out. Somehow I am starting multiple threads, and only cleaning
up one of them!
L339[11:30:42] <AmandaC> aaand there it
is
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L342[12:28:31] <AmandaC> %choose anime or
youtube
L343[12:28:31] <MichiBot> AmandaC:
anime
L344[12:48:21] <Inari> %give MichiBot
Melon-pan
L345[12:48:21] *
MichiBot accepts Melon-pan and adds it to her
inventory
L346[12:48:24] <Inari> %pet AmandaC
L347[12:48:25] *
MichiBot brushes AmandaC with a nuclear warhead. AmandaC recovers 4
health!
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L359[12:58:11] <S3> I should probably do
payonel's thing soon
L360[12:58:28] <S3> because I am just
staring at something that does absolutely nothing
L361[12:58:33] <S3> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/R29nuGdU/
L362[13:01:15] <S3> When I create a
process, I need to create a new env for every process..
L363[13:01:32] <S3> then I need to punch a
hole in it for sending messages back in forth
L364[13:02:17] <S3> To do this, I think I
have to make the scheduler a process itself..
L365[13:20:46] <S3> ooh Thanks to Lua's
table fun I can create a linked list with a head ptr
L366[13:20:49] <S3>
["processes"] = { h = 1 }, -- Process store
L367[13:21:17] <S3> the process wrapper
that contains the process can store the ptr to the next
process
L368[13:21:23] <S3> not the next process
to run
L369[13:21:34] <S3> if the process
crashes, the container is still there and cleans it up
L370[13:26:10] <Inari> %jumble ^
L371[13:26:10] <MichiBot> and is container
process the there up it the if cleans still crashes,
L372[13:26:40] <Inari> "do payonels
thing" lewd
L373[13:27:11] <S3> andlol
L374[13:27:14] <S3> lol&
L375[13:27:16] <S3> blargh wtf
L376[13:27:24] <payonel> o_O
L377[13:27:57] <S3> so if I make processes
in a linked list
L378[13:28:05] <S3> then when a process
exits, PIDs are reused :D
L379[13:35:20] <S3> wait no I can't do
that
L380[13:35:29] <S3> linked list represents
empty space not processes in the space
L381[13:35:34] <S3> hmm how am I going to
do that...
L382[13:37:04] <S3> so here's something I
could do that will make payonel be like, WTF
L383[13:37:24] <S3> I can create a linked
list that is only as big as one process extra
L384[13:37:27]
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L385[13:37:32] <S3> and as more processes
come the list gets bigger
L386[13:37:45] <S3> over time if it hits a
certain size it runs a defragmenter to defrag the process
L387[13:37:51] <S3> and reserve linked
list memory
L388[13:37:58] <S3> by restarting
processes into new PIDs
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L390[13:38:51] <S3> a cmplication of that
is keeping track of PID numbers then the process gets restarted as
a new PID what do you do
L391[13:39:00] <S3> you can have a process
name registry but not all processes need to be named.
L392[13:40:28] <S3> another possibility is
to have a fixed ammount of processes and always have the same sized
list, the linked list gets smaller as processes icnrease
L393[13:40:43] <S3> since you're making
linked list of free memory, not processes
L394[13:41:19] <S3> I really like the
defrag idea, as long as I can figure out how to handle processes
referring to PIDs that no longer exist
L395[13:41:26] <S3> I wonder how Erlang
handles that.
L396[13:45:18] <payonel> S3: two things.
1: tracking free memory with containers in lua doesn't make sense,
you dont have raw memory allocation and you can control where
things are stored
L397[13:45:47] <payonel> and 2. if you
want to know about gc'd object, i would refer you to weak
keys
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L399[14:03:05] <payonel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wA5NmQESx8
L400[14:03:06] <MichiBot> Disturbed -
down with the sickness lyrics | length: 4m 39s | Likes:
58,506 Dislikes: 2,661 Views: 11,344,286 | by
vodkashots6 | Published On 8/4/2009
L401[14:03:15] *
payonel rocks it
L402[14:03:26] <S3> oh I need a
genius
L403[14:03:51] <S3> payonel: well it's not
memory like you think it
L404[14:04:09] <S3> I just call it memory
because I call everything memory
L405[14:04:20] <S3> since I deal a lot
with memory in most of my projects
L406[14:04:31] <S3> ayways, the idea is
that you have a list of processes:
L407[14:04:42] <S3> processes = {p1, p2,
p3, p4, ..., pn}
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L409[14:04:54] <S3> now technically
speaking p1 may have a PID of 1
L410[14:05:08] <S3> but if P1 quits, I
want the next PID available to be PID 1
L411[14:05:30] <S3> on real hardware say
in C, I can create a linked list out of free memory and have 1 head
pointer, and that's ALL I need
L412[14:06:04] <S3> over time it gets
positionally fragmented but random access memory generally doesn't
care if you access the beginning or end or whatever
L413[14:06:13] <S3> in terms of
performance
L414[14:06:33] <payonel> you can do the
same thing in lua of course. but there are options for finding
available pids
L415[14:06:47] <S3> right. What I don't
want to do is scan the process table
L416[14:06:50] <payonel> O(n) search, keep
track of min
L417[14:07:00] <S3> yes, I want to avoid
the linear search
L418[14:07:07] <payonel> or bst as a 2nd
ref to the procs, to find lowest pid
L419[14:07:13] <payonel> or use weak keys,
like i said previously
L420[14:07:38] <S3> weak keys, now I know
what weaking kinda does in Perl, but what do you mean by weak keys
in Lua?
L421[14:08:12] <payonel> it really is
simple to have a pid table have additional mapping
L422[14:08:19] <payonel> when procs close,
they can self clean it
L423[14:08:25] <payonel> or you can do
that along with weak keys
L424[14:08:26] <S3> okay so it is
literally like Perl's weak references
L425[14:08:42] <S3> just weird to think
about in Lua
L426[14:09:12] <payonel> lua runs on a vm,
weak tables make sense
L427[14:09:30] <payonel> you can set the
mode of a table to use weak keys or weak values
L428[14:09:52] <payonel> local pids =
setmetatable({}, {__mode="v"})
L429[14:09:59] <payonel> then on each new
proc, pids[pid] = proc
L430[14:10:09] <payonel> and when the proc
is free'd, your pids will be available
L431[14:10:29] <S3> hmm
L432[14:10:43] <payonel> but imo, it is
cleaner to self remove
L433[14:11:15] <payonel> openos process
list is still weak as that is what is was back in 1.5 days
L434[14:11:26] <payonel> i've rewritten
all of that, but left the weak ref
L435[14:11:33]
⇨ Joins: glasspelican
(glasspelican!~quassel@ktnron060ww-lp130-04-76-67-126-214.dsl.bell.ca)
L436[14:11:46] <payonel> but openos procs
are definitely managed and self cleaning, so it is not necessary
anymore
L437[14:12:03] <payonel> https://github.com/MightyPirates/OpenComputers/blob/master-MC1.7.10/src/main/resources/assets/opencomputers/loot/openos/lib/process.lua#L135
L438[14:12:15] <payonel> that is better
than weak
L439[14:12:37] <payonel> it is
determinate, and allows for reproducibility and defined
behaviors
L440[14:12:50] <payonel> weak tables have
their place of course, but it tends to point to poor design
L441[14:13:47]
⇨ Joins: BearishMushroom
(BearishMushroom!~BearishMu@82-209-154-59.cust.bredband2.com)
L442[14:17:04] <S3> hmmm
L443[14:18:50] <S3> I guess I'm not sure
how it seriously helps. if processes 5, 10, and 35 of 50 quit, I'll
need to ensure that the next 3 processes take those slots for
example (unless other processes quit)
L444[14:19:26] <S3> just because of their
weak garbage collected behavior or whatever doesn't seem to make a
difference in my head to me
L445[14:19:49] <payonel> bc then pids[5]
would be nil
L446[14:19:53] <payonel> so you know it is
available
L447[14:20:09] <S3> you're right, except
that you need to know where they are
L448[14:20:24] <S3> a linear search is
evil; I shouldn't have to search for free PIDs
L449[14:20:43] <payonel> it's a linear
search for free pids, not a linear search over all procs
L450[14:20:55] <S3> which is why I was
thinking, I can start building a linked list of free PIDs when they
quit
L451[14:20:56] <S3> how
L452[14:21:04] <payonel> meh,
whatevs
L453[14:21:05] <S3> how is it a linear
search of free PIds
L454[14:21:11] <payonel> you're not
gaining anything with that
L455[14:21:33] <S3> you end up iterating
over all processes anyways, right?
L456[14:21:38] <S3> until you find a free
one
L457[14:22:06] <payonel> yep
L458[14:22:07] <payonel> btw
L459[14:22:15] <payonel> the way i ref
procs by "id" in openos is the table address :)
L460[14:22:34] <S3> ?
L461[14:22:50] <payonel> all process
metatable is stored in a table
L462[14:22:59] <payonel> it's the address
of that table i use to refer to the process by id
L463[14:23:33] <S3> so your PIDs are just
table addresses, and your processes are just tables?
L464[14:23:40] <S3> with process
info
L465[14:23:42] <payonel> yeah
L466[14:24:16] <payonel> anyways, you
could do it your way
L467[14:24:34] <S3> so I see one and only
one benefit of that at the top of my head, by having a reference to
a table address you don't need to jump through one table into
another to get the process?
L468[14:24:40] <payonel> store {1}
initially, and when the free-pids is empty, store the last taken
pid+1
L469[14:24:50] <payonel> should always be
the largest available pid
L470[14:27:35] <S3> well here was my idea.
at the start, yuo have a table, with head h processes { h = 1 }.
First process starts, his increases to 2 and process takes up forst
slot. that process quits and h is moved to point to that slot, and
the value of the first slot is a pointer to the previous head. This
way, when you have tons of processes quitting out of order, you
don't have to worry about it, and the table will contain up to as
many free es entries as the maximum
L471[14:27:35] <S3> ammount of processes
ever run + 1.
L472[14:27:37] <S3> you*
L473[14:27:44] <S3> to start a new
process, place it at h
L474[14:28:01] <S3> and move h to wherever
that index pointed to
L475[14:28:18] <S3> now payonel
L476[14:28:22] <S3> if I used table
ADDRESSES :D
L477[14:28:24] <S3> as PIDs
L478[14:28:41] <S3> then every so often I
can defragment the process list to get rid of linked list
info
L479[14:28:52] <S3> and the process PIDs
shouldn;'t change, right? :D
L480[14:28:56] <S3> so no references
lost
L481[14:30:22] <payonel> first of all, you
can't deref a table address to a table in lua. it's not a faster
lookup or anything. i use table addresses because i dont care about
pid lookup in openos
L482[14:30:46] <S3> huh
L483[14:30:48] <payonel> secondly, there
is no fragmentation in a linked list, nor if you are storing in a
map
L484[14:31:22] <S3> yuo know if I use the
table address as keys, I guess I don't have to worry at all
L485[14:32:26] <S3> then for my purposes a
formal PID can be a table
L486[14:32:42] <S3> {global, local,
rstate}
L487[14:33:39] <S3> that part probably
doesn't make sense but the 3 element PID is a way of handling multi
computer processes
L488[14:33:52] <S3> where machine id is in
global
L489[14:33:59] <payonel> anyways, none of
this helps you determine how ocvm was failing to give a meaningful
halt reason
L490[14:34:06] <S3> if you want to send a
message to some machine called foobar you can send it to {foobar,
local_pid, rstate}
L491[14:34:17] <S3> I know lol
L492[14:36:40] ⇦
Quits: SolaoBajiuik
(SolaoBajiuik!~quassel@96-90-37-89-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
(Remote host closed the connection)
L493[15:06:19] <AmandaC> S3: Note: the
tables will be compared by addresses, not contents.
L494[15:06:53] <AmandaC> %lua t = {} t[{1,
2, 3}] = "Hallo" print(tostring(t[{1, 2, 3}]))
L495[15:06:53] <MichiBot> nil
L496[15:08:05] <AmandaC> %lua k = {1, 2,
3} t = {} t[k] = "Hallo" print(tostring(t[k]))
L497[15:08:05] <MichiBot> Hallo
L498[15:08:53] <payonel> %lua t =
setmetatable({}, {__index=function(tbl, k) for _k,v in pairs(tbl)
do if _k[1] == k[1] and _k[2] == k[2] and _k[3] == k[3] then return
v end end end}) t[{1, 2, 3}] = "Hallo"
print(tostring(t[{1, 2, 3}]))
L499[15:08:53] <MichiBot> Hallo
L500[15:09:22] <AmandaC> True, that'd work
too
L501[15:09:27] <payonel> i'm just being a
punk
L502[15:09:29] <AmandaC> :P
L503[15:09:41] <AmandaC> I wonder if
defining __eq on a metatable would work
L504[15:11:08] <payonel> AmandaC:
"This method is invoked when "myTable1 == myTable2"
is evaluated, but only if both tables have the exact same
metamethod for __eq"
L505[15:11:37] <AmandaC> ah
L506[15:12:06] <AmandaC> the last part I
didn't know, but I still wonder if indexing the table counts as a
comparison
L507[15:15:03] <payonel> AmandaC: it seems
that it is not
L508[15:15:18] <payonel> but maybe it uses
__lt or a combination there of
L509[15:15:22] <payonel> i only tested
with only __eq
L510[15:16:09] <payonel> AmandaC: did you
test out my new timeout feature in ocvm?
L511[15:16:21] <AmandaC> payonel: the
keyboard timeout?
L512[15:16:24] <payonel> yeah!
L513[15:16:30] <AmandaC> yup, very nice.
:D
L514[15:16:36] <payonel> :>
L515[15:16:41] <payonel> thanks for the
great idea
L516[15:16:56] <AmandaC> Makes iterating
on my project much nicer, if I don't hit a key after exiting it, I
don't come back to a shell full of ^C's
L517[15:17:06] <payonel> hah, yeah
L518[15:17:26] <payonel> but i've been
using ocvm with that nuisance for so long i'm not quite used to it
not being a problem anymore
L519[15:17:32] <AmandaC> Haha, same
L520[15:17:37] <payonel> i'm too adapted
to hitting extra keys after a program ends
L521[15:17:50] <payonel> s/a program
ends/interrupting a program/
L522[15:17:51] <MichiBot> <payonel>
i'm too adapted to hitting extra keys after interrupting a
program
L523[15:23:05]
⇨ Joins: Thutmose
(Thutmose!~Patrick@host-69-59-79-123.nctv.com)
L524[15:27:08] <Xal> one of the best uses
of oc I've ever seen was for a war server
L525[15:27:40] <Xal> a faction created a
dr. strangelove-esque network of redundant computers that monitored
for incoming missiles to set off a doomsday device
L526[15:27:41] <Skye> Xal, details?
:o
L527[15:27:48] <Skye> oh interesting
L528[15:27:50] <Skye> and scary
L529[15:29:01] <Xal> I'm fairly certain it
was programmed to say "mein fuhrer, I can walk" when it
went off, too!
L530[15:29:10] <Skye> ¬_¬
L531[15:29:24] <Skye> a strange game
L532[15:29:28] <Skye> the only winning
move is not to play
L533[15:29:39] <SAL9000> would you like a
nice game of chess
L534[15:30:03] <Xal> now I want to build a
war room with blinkenlights
L535[15:30:46] <SAL9000> s/lights/lichten
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blinkenlights-original.png/
L536[15:30:46] <MichiBot> <Xal> now
I want to build a war room with blinkenlichten https:
L537[15:30:51] <Skye> I want a
cyberwarfare server
L538[15:30:54] <SAL9000> (whoops)
L539[15:31:06] <Molinko>
@Skye I second this
<Molinko>
@Skye I second thisL540[15:32:02] <Xal> I suppose ya gotta
fire the missiles when the international communist conspiracy
threatens to sap and impurify all your precious bodily fluids
L541[15:37:07] *
Skye sings "The Red Flag"
L542[15:37:59] <S3> AmandaC just so
happens I can just be like
L543[15:38:07] <S3> foo = {[table} =
table}
L544[15:38:11] <S3> er
L545[15:38:15] <S3> foo = {[table] =
table}
L546[15:39:24] <S3> or foo = {table =
table}
L547[15:39:27] <S3> funny stuff
L548[15:39:57] <AmandaC> foo { table =
table} will set a key named "table" to table
L549[15:40:25] <S3> didn't for me
L550[15:40:30] <S3> it put the table
address in the key
L551[15:40:30] <S3> :D
L552[15:41:10] <AmandaC> %lua table = {1,
2, 3} t = { table = table } print(t["table"])
L553[15:41:10] <MichiBot> table:
0x7fa7b80036a0
L554[15:41:25] <AmandaC> %lua table = {1,
2, 3} t = { table = table } print(t[table])
L555[15:41:25] <MichiBot> nil
L556[15:41:30] <S3> still working for me
though
L557[15:41:37] <S3> not sure what the
difference is
L558[15:41:46] <AmandaC> Probably a dirty
environment from using [table] =table
L559[15:42:08] <AmandaC> This isn't some
quantum phonoenon, it doesn't work differently for you.
L560[15:42:38] <AmandaC> %choose stay on
the computer or lay down and veg out
L561[15:42:38] <MichiBot> AmandaC: stay on
the computer
L562[15:43:29] <S3> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/MQDhVkBp/
L563[15:43:55] <payonel> [] makes it a
var
L564[15:44:01] <payonel> and not a
word
L565[15:44:13] *
AmandaC sighs
L566[15:44:19] <AmandaC> %stab S3
L567[15:44:19] *
MichiBot stabs S3 with a Copy of Tales of Vesperia doing [4]
damage
L568[15:44:32] <S3> woops I typoed
that
L569[15:44:35] <S3> paste
L570[15:45:22] <S3> I'm not doing anything
in particular anyways. just stabbing weird things at Lua
L571[15:47:50] <payonel> i'm 65% sure i'm
going to redo edit
L572[15:47:58] <S3> put in vim
L573[15:47:59] <S3> :D
L574[15:48:15] <payonel> i'm not going to
make a better editor :)
L575[15:48:19] <payonel> just a new
one
L576[15:48:19] <S3> that way when you hit
escape in osvm to get in command mode it quits
L577[15:48:20] <S3> :D
L578[15:48:25] <payonel> ha
L579[15:48:45] <payonel> S3: i chose
escape for killing ocvm because in oc escape isn't capturable in
the screen
L580[15:48:55] <S3> really?
L581[15:48:59] <Skye> payonel, nano?
L582[15:49:05] <payonel> yeah, that's
disconnects you from the screen
L583[15:49:08] <S3> nano is the most
annoying POS I have ever used
L584[15:49:11] <payonel> -'s
L585[15:49:12] <S3> I hate the control
sequences in nano
L586[15:49:14] <Skye> edit.com
L587[15:49:17] <payonel> nano is
great
L588[15:49:21] <payonel> gets the job done
:)
L589[15:49:26] <AmandaC> ed!
L590[15:49:28] <S3> I'm going to make an
editor
L591[15:49:32] <Skye> MS-DOS editor
L592[15:49:41] <S3> and the way I'm going
to do it on my os is that I am going to make a line editor
L593[15:49:44] <Xal> I'm guilty of
actually using ed now and then
L594[15:49:48] <S3> and then make a text
editor that wraps around the line editor
L595[15:49:49] <payonel> i'm redoing
openos edit because i'm redo'ing tty, again
L596[15:49:52] <Skye> AmandaC, if you want
ed, I can give you an old copy of sked
L597[15:49:52] <S3> so the text editor
isn't doing much
L598[15:49:58] <AmandaC> acme!
L599[15:50:01] <S3> you edit lines and it
just makes calls to ed
L600[15:50:05] <S3> the line editor*
L601[15:50:05] <AmandaC> keyboard chording
in OC!
L602[15:50:07] <payonel> and i want an
edit that leverages the strengths of the new tty layer
L603[15:50:22] <S3> payonel: is it
possible to trap something like ctrl escape?
L604[15:50:22] <AmandaC>
s/keyboard/mouse/
L605[15:50:22] <MichiBot> <AmandaC>
mouse chording in OC!
L606[15:50:24] <S3> in OC
L607[15:50:39] <payonel> S3: haven't
tried
L608[15:50:40] *
AmandaC is tired
L609[15:50:43] <S3> lol
L610[15:50:52] <payonel> AmandaC: go for a
walk :)
L611[15:51:12] <AmandaC> payonel: but it's
raining out there. D:
L612[15:51:57] <payonel> i love the rain
D:
L613[15:52:02] <Vexatos> That's what makes
it good >_<
L614[15:52:10] <payonel> Vexatos: no
L615[15:52:20] <payonel> there cannot be
something we agree on
L616[15:52:44] *
payonel calls mod1(Vexatos)
L617[15:53:56] <Forecaster>
I like cake.
<Forecaster>
I like cake.L618[15:54:57] <Vexatos> I want a julia
arch for OC :<
L619[15:55:15] <payonel> anyways, i can
see ppl get pretty excited about changes to openos edit :)
L620[15:55:25] <Vexatos> what are you
changing >_>
L621[15:55:27] <payonel> i didn't mean
that i'll make it great. i'm honestly staying away from that rabbit
hole
L622[15:55:41] <AmandaC> payonel: just
make ^O an alias for ^S
L623[15:55:46] <payonel> Vexatos: not 100%
certain i will. i think i said 65% :)
L624[15:55:52] <Xal> I hate julia so
much
L625[15:55:58] <payonel> Vexatos: the
point will be to rebuild it on the new tty work i'm in the middle
of
L626[15:55:59] <AmandaC> I
L627[15:56:00] <Xal> stop making
unimaginative languages!
L628[15:56:14] <payonel> AmandaC: to make
it more like nano?
L629[15:56:25] <AmandaC> I've lost count
of how many times I've lost an edit because I speed-typed
^O^W
L630[15:56:30] <Vexatos> Xal, then tell me
another language that revolves around maths, is fast, and does not
crash half the time
L631[15:56:30] <payonel> aye
L632[15:57:08] <Vexatos> payonel,
emacs.lua when
L633[15:57:26] <Xal> what problem does
julia solve?
L634[15:57:46] <Vexatos> It solves a
2-grand-per-license problem called MATLAB
L635[15:57:59] <Skye> ~w gpu
L636[15:58:00] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component:gpu
L637[15:58:01] <Xal> if you want a matlab
equivalent just use octave
L638[15:58:06] <Vexatos> Have you ever
used MATLAB like holy shit
L639[15:58:12] <Vexatos> octave is just as
bad
L640[15:58:16] <Vexatos> Octave is a
matlab clone
L641[15:58:20] <Xal> that's exactly the
point
L642[15:58:25] <Vexatos> which means it
has all its flaws other than cost
L643[15:58:38] <Vexatos> like literally
not working half the time for the stupidest reason
L644[15:58:44] <Xal> I'd rather see
something like haskell get adapted into a numeric computing
environment
L645[15:58:45] <payonel> sounds like
"It solves a 2-grand-per-license problem called
MATLAB"
L646[15:58:51] <Vexatos> I hope I'll never
have to use matlab again
L647[15:59:02] <Vexatos> payonel, the
price is just one of its problems
L648[15:59:05] ⇦
Quits: Izaya (Izaya!~izaya@210-1-213-55-cpe.spintel.net.au) (Ping
timeout: 186 seconds)
L649[15:59:08] <Vexatos> it's genuinely a
bad language
L650[15:59:21] <Vexatos> but it was the
only maths language that is not fortran for over a decade
L651[15:59:27] <Vexatos> (fortran is still
damn good)
L652[15:59:38] <Vexatos> (but it's super
ancient and it shows)
L653[15:59:47] <Xal> julia makes me angry
simply because of how bad its type system is
L654[15:59:53] <Vexatos> you mean
good
L655[15:59:57] <Xal> lol
L656[16:00:21]
⇨ Joins: Izaya (Izaya!~izaya@210.1.213.55)
L657[16:00:28] <Vexatos> Julia is
basically superior to MATLAB in literally every possible way, and
superior to numpy in most
L658[16:00:32] <Xal> "hey you know
what would be a good idea"
L659[16:00:40] <Vexatos> and there you
have its purpose
L660[16:00:49] <Xal> "let's make a
language, call it modern, but disregard all programming language
innovation in the last 30 years"
L661[16:01:14] <Vexatos> you mean like the
big focus on functional programming?
L662[16:01:35] <Vexatos> and having smart
method overloading
L663[16:01:55] <Xal> none of those are
remotely new or interesting, and the type system stunts all of
it
L664[16:02:05] <Vexatos> what the heck is
bad about the type system
L665[16:02:38] <Xal> it's dynamic and has
the wonderful "feature" of using runtime checks as type
"assertions"
L666[16:02:45] <Xal> why even have
types
L667[16:03:00] <S3> too much crazy
shit
L668[16:03:14] <Xal> it invites so many
programmer errors and bad practices
L669[16:03:25] <Vexatos> uh
L670[16:03:29] <Vexatos> yes it has
dynamic typing
L671[16:03:34] <Vexatos> in case you want
to program fast
L672[16:03:42] <Vexatos> but you _can_
specify the type
L673[16:03:46] <Vexatos> in case you want
to program well
L674[16:03:59] <Xal> specifying the type
inserts a runtime check
L675[16:04:00] <Xal> it's stupid
L676[16:04:14] <Xal> and how does dynamic
typing make your program fast?
L677[16:04:22] <payonel> sounds like
java's lame type system
L678[16:04:24] <Vexatos> it does not make
the program fast
L679[16:04:27] <Vexatos> it makes YOU
program fast
L680[16:04:30] <AmandaC> developer-time
fast, not runtime fast
L681[16:04:34] <Vexatos> ^
L682[16:04:39] <Xal> how does dynamic
typing make developer-time fast
L683[16:04:45] <Vexatos> because less text
to write
L684[16:04:47] <Vexatos> literally
L685[16:04:56] <Vexatos> it's the most
obvious time-saver
L686[16:05:01] <Vexatos> for quick and
dirty code
L687[16:05:08] <Xal> this is what I'm
talking about when I say "it has ignored all innovation in the
last 30 years"
L688[16:05:16] <Vexatos> that is also
still fast to execute if you're not stupid
L689[16:05:18] <Xal> someone tell the
julia devs about hindley-miller please
L690[16:05:24] <Vexatos> what kind of
innovation would be there
L691[16:05:40] <Xal> strong type systems
don't require to write out types
L692[16:05:44] <Xal> modern languages
infer them
L693[16:05:48] <CompanionCube> type
inference is good shit
L694[16:05:49] <Vexatos> you know
L695[16:05:51] <Vexatos> Julia does
that
L696[16:06:13] <Xal> you don't need to do
type inference in a dynamic typing system because's it's
DYNAMICALLY TYPED
L697[16:06:24] <CompanionCube> even as
someone who only uses it in a haskell program and doesn't
particularly like haskell
L698[16:06:46] <Vexatos> julia does infer
types
L699[16:06:48] <Xal> the belief that
shitty typing system = work faster is dumb and outdated
L700[16:06:55] <S3> ho ho why you no
do
L701[16:06:57] <Xal> Vexatos: that's a
given for duck typing
L702[16:06:57] <Vexatos> It just doesn't
require every expression to have an inferrable type
L703[16:07:25] <Vexatos> I mean
essentially it just defaults to the Any type
L704[16:07:35] <Xal> what a wonderful
antifeature
L705[16:07:53] <Xal> I'm a strong believer
that a strong typing system makes you program faster
L706[16:08:05] <Xal> because it eliminates
a wide class of errors that are inevitable with bad type
systems
L707[16:08:30] <Xal> and that the belief
that strong type system = more typing is also outdated thanks to
type inferences
L708[16:08:34] <Vexatos> Whenever I write
a library I specify the types, but so what
L709[16:08:39] <Vexatos> doesn't mean the
language needs to force me to
L710[16:08:40] <Izaya> S3: I was going to
use an editor that uses tab instead of escape
L711[16:08:51] <S3> Izaya: why not
mod?
L712[16:08:56] <S3> such as the super
key
L713[16:09:02] <Izaya> Because that's less
convenient
L714[16:09:05] <S3> in editors such as
emacs escape is just a shortcut to the mod key
L715[16:09:09] <Xal> Vexatos: you DON'T
NEED TO SPECIFY TYPES in a strong type system
L716[16:09:11] <S3> andthe mod key can be
changed
L717[16:09:22] *
Izaya shrugs
L718[16:09:32] <Vexatos> Xal, as I said,
Julia _does infer types_
L719[16:09:40] <Vexatos> if that is your
definition of strong types
L720[16:09:48] <Xal> yes, but the type
system is so weak that it doesn't help with a whole lot
L721[16:09:56] <AmandaC> I think that Xal
is mostly upset about the Any type?
L722[16:10:04] <Xal> a programming
language like that has zero place in the 21st century
L723[16:10:10] <Vexatos> except it
does
L724[16:10:17] <Xal> we've moved past this
and we have better tech now
L725[16:10:38] <Vexatos> because it
literally replaces a tumour while also beating numpy on the
side
L726[16:10:52] <Vexatos> it excels at
filling the gap
L727[16:10:55] <Xal> I'm sure it's
infinitely better than python
L728[16:11:02] <Xal> but it's replacing
one turd with another
L729[16:11:19] <payonel> i like strong
types
L730[16:11:23] <Vexatos> except that turd
is a few orders of magnitude faster
L731[16:11:29] <AmandaC> And you can not
lie, payonel
L732[16:11:30] <S3> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/W2ZBrS0M/
L733[16:11:31] <Vexatos> As I said, its
main purpose is to replace matlab
L734[16:11:33] <S3> that's not finished by
any means
L735[16:11:42] <Vexatos> and boy, does it
do a good job at that
L736[16:11:43] <Xal> Yes, but why not
replace matlab with something actually modern
L737[16:11:47] <Vexatos> if you ever used
matlab you'd know
L738[16:11:52] <Vexatos> It is fairly
modern
L739[16:11:53] <payonel> AmandaC: oh. my.
gosh. becky
L740[16:11:57] <S3> but in this case the
storage of processes in the table is just to prevent them from
being collected?
L741[16:12:01] <Xal> it's stuck in the
80s
L742[16:12:04] <Vexatos> no it's not
L743[16:12:08] <Xal> it absolutely
is
L744[16:12:15] <Vexatos> show me those 80s
languages with easy matrix syntax
L745[16:12:25] <S3> Erlang
L746[16:12:32] <SquidDev> Vexatos:
Fortran? :P
L747[16:12:38] <Vexatos> Fortran is really
good shit
L748[16:12:41] <Xal> oh wow syntax what
deep commentary
L749[16:12:56] *
CompanionCube Chair new; self sit chair. self watch.
L750[16:13:05] <CompanionCube> *self sit:
chair
L751[16:13:05] <S3> Erlang was 1986
L752[16:13:06] <Vexatos> SquidDev, fortran
is like building a house but you have to burn the bricks
yourself
L753[16:13:18] <Vexatos> It really shows
its age
L754[16:13:22] <Vexatos> but it's still
super good >-<
L755[16:13:25] <Xal> lol how
L756[16:13:49] <Xal> it has niche uses
that are pretty much entirely because of the mature compilers that
exist for it
L757[16:13:52] <S3> oh so the other day my
professor stepped out of class and said okay class be right back
I'm going to go get you guys 1 MB of data like it's the 1970s
L758[16:13:58] <Vexatos> Xal, julia is all
about the syntax. THE ENTIRE POINT of the language is that it
replaces matlab, is easy to write due to lots of syntax features,
and still fast as heck
L759[16:14:03] <S3> he comes back with an
approximately 1MB giant roll of paper punch tape
L760[16:14:16] <Xal> you don't have to
have fancy syntax to be modern
L761[16:14:22] <S3> that's a lot of
frigging punch tape
L762[16:14:29] <Xal> a good language has a
little syntax as necessary
L763[16:14:33] <Xal> as*
L764[16:14:37] <Vexatos> An easy to write
language does not
L765[16:14:42] <Xal> and all the syntactic
sugar can be implemented in libraries
L766[16:14:44] <Vexatos> You clearly don't
get the purpose of Julia
L767[16:14:45] <S3> Xal: are you calling
BASIC a good language
L768[16:15:03] <Xal> BASIC has a lot of
special syntax that isn't possible to implement in a library
L769[16:15:05] <Vexatos> ASM doesn't have
much syntax
L770[16:15:11] <Xal> it does not
L771[16:15:15] <Vexatos> does not mean I
would like to write quantum chemistry software in it
L772[16:15:26] <S3> Xal: I'm talking about
basic from the days of color basic
L773[16:15:27] <S3> etc
L774[16:15:31] <S3> not modern basic
L775[16:15:33] <Xal> good languages are a
subset of languages with simple syntax, not the other way round,
Vexatos
L776[16:15:54] <Vexatos> Xal, there are
literally two languages right now which people write chemistry
software in
L777[16:15:57] <S3> the basic I used when
I grew up had VERY, very little syntax
L778[16:15:58] <Vexatos> And those are
fortran and python
L779[16:16:12] <Vexatos> and only one of
those has any idea of the concept of speed
L780[16:16:16] <Xal> I suppose instead of
simple I should have used 'regular'
L781[16:16:37] <Xal> Vexatos: my main
point is, if we're going to make a big leap forward, why not shoot
a little higher?
L782[16:16:54] <Vexatos> what would you
like? True strong types? anything else?
L783[16:17:13] <Xal> more regular syntax,
strong typing, dependent types, better metaprogramming
L784[16:17:17] <SquidDev> Can we
disambiguate between strong and static types. Python technically
has strong types already :p.
L785[16:17:28] <Xal>
s/strong/static/g
L786[16:17:28] <MichiBot> <SquidDev>
Can we disambiguate between static and static types. Python
technically has static types already :p.
L787[16:17:34] <Vexatos> metaprogramming
is pretty damn good in Julia
L788[16:17:35] <Xal> haha that's not what
I meant
L789[16:17:37] <Vexatos> heck are you
talking about
L790[16:17:52] <Vexatos> ever heard of
macro and @generated :I
L791[16:18:03] <Xal> I have
L792[16:18:34] <Vexatos> I literally
dynamically generate a Julia library based on another julia library
before compiling isn't that meta enough >-<
L793[16:18:42] <payonel> thinga that annoy
me are: returning values without me telling you to return it.
whitespace as syntax. weak types or implicit type conversion.
1-based arrays :)
L794[16:18:46] <payonel> things*
L795[16:18:52] <Xal> Vexatos: julia has no
good way of representing the AST entirely in terms of sum
types
L796[16:19:21] <Xal> partly because it has
no sum types
L797[16:19:30] <Vexatos> payonel, Julia
only has implicit type promotion, e.g. Int32->Float32 etc
L798[16:19:36] <SquidDev> Xal: For
"actual proper" programming, I would agree - the more you
can shift to the type system the better. The reality is, there's a
substantial number of scientists who can barely add two numbers
together in R, let alone navigate the calculus of
constructors.
L799[16:19:53] <Vexatos> SquidDev, oh god
holy shit
L800[16:19:58] <payonel> type promotion is
okay
L801[16:19:59] <Vexatos> I never even
brought up that argument
L802[16:20:05] <Vexatos> Xal, have
L803[16:20:07] <Vexatos> have you
ever
L804[16:20:08] <Vexatos> like, once
L805[16:20:09] <payonel> but i'm biased
because bjarne told me it was okay
L806[16:20:14] <Vexatos> used a program
written by a chemist
L807[16:20:22] <Vexatos> you will notice
immediately
L808[16:20:30] <Vexatos> Whether they are
a programmer or a scientist
L809[16:20:37] <SquidDev> Vexatos:
s/chemist/scientist/ Have you seen some of the stuff in
bioinformatics?
L810[16:20:40] <Vexatos> yes
L811[16:20:41] <Vexatos> exactly
L812[16:20:46] <Vexatos> believe it or
not
L813[16:20:52] <Xal> you sound like rob
pike
L814[16:20:53] <Vexatos> there are people
who don't program for money or fun
L815[16:21:00] <Vexatos> who program
because they _have to_
L816[16:21:06] <Vexatos> so they just try
to get it done
L817[16:21:07] <Xal> "They’re not
capable of understanding a brilliant language"
L818[16:21:22] <Xal> that line of thinking
is how we get shit like go
L819[16:21:23] <Vexatos> that's the only
reason MATLAB became popular
L820[16:21:25] <payonel> Vexatos: i
program because i have to, that's what pays me
L821[16:21:29] <payonel> and for fun on
the side
L822[16:21:30] <SquidDev> Xal: No, it's
that they don't give a dammn. They just want to process a massive
data set and write a paper.
L823[16:21:34] <Vexatos> ^
L824[16:21:36] <Vexatos> this
L825[16:21:37] <payonel> what do you mean
"have to" if not for money
L826[16:21:50] <payonel> like, are people
going to kill them if they don't solve their chemies
L827[16:21:56] *
AmandaC exits, stage left
L828[16:21:58] <Vexatos> payonel, I ~want~
to write my report, but for that I first ~have to~ crunch this
data
L829[16:22:07] <Vexatos> it's an
annoyance
L830[16:22:09] <SquidDev> AmandaC: pursued
by a bear?
L831[16:22:21] <AmandaC> SquidDev: I sure
hope not
L832[16:22:25] <Vexatos> precious time you
could have spent doing research
L833[16:22:28] <Vexatos> you are now
forced to write a program
L834[16:22:34] <Vexatos> in that
time
L835[16:22:41] <Xal> show me how writing a
program in a better language is going to slow you down
L836[16:22:50] <Vexatos> would you like a
language that is good once you learn it (fortran), or a language
that you hardly have to learn (matlab)
L837[16:22:54] <payonel> Xal: they don't
have faith it would benefit them
L838[16:23:14] <Vexatos> and even the
fortran programs are a piece of trash at timse
L839[16:23:16] <Vexatos> times*
L840[16:23:24] <Xal> all this research
into good type systems lets us express computations at a higher
level of abstraction, eg closer to actual human thought
L841[16:23:40] <payonel> praise be
L842[16:23:58] <Xal> shit like Go brings
it down a notch, saying "you're too stupid, so you get to do
everything without abstractions"
L843[16:24:00] <SquidDev> Types help make
programs more maintainable over a long period. If I've a script I
only need to run once, it doesn't need to be maintainable - it's
going to solve one problem once and I need to solve it fast. I
don't need to encode my entire domain in GADTs or something, I just
need to multiply two 500k row matrices.
L844[16:24:01] <Vexatos> payonel, also,
Julia doesn't have more whitespace as syntax than Lua has, and
semicola still exist in both languages :⁾ You can still
theoretically single-line any Julia or Lua program
L845[16:24:16] <Xal> SquidDev: what
stopping your script from having types?
L846[16:24:16] <Vexatos> optional returns,
sure, if you hate that I can't blame you
L847[16:24:26] <Vexatos> and 1-based
arrays we already talked about >_<
L848[16:24:49] <Xal> ideally there should
be no return statement
L849[16:25:00] <payonel> Vexatos: oh the
list/comment wasn't julia a ref - i was just ... speaking in
general. i don't know what julia has or doesn't have
L850[16:25:04] <Vexatos> SquidDev, numpy
in a nutshell
L851[16:25:14] <payonel> Vexatos: we're
never done talking about 1-based arrays :)
L852[16:25:22] <Vexatos> m o d 1
L853[16:25:23] <payonel> i'll just ..
yield that for another time
L854[16:25:30] <payonel> :)
L855[16:25:39] <Xal> pfft, 2 based arrays
are where it's at
L856[16:25:42] <payonel> haha
L857[16:25:58] <Vexatos> SquidDev, you use
numpy for matrix crunching once, then you use julia for matrix
crunching once and then you wonder how you ever managed to live
with numpy
L858[16:26:13] <Vexatos> Xal, just saying
that Julia almost perfectly fills a very specific gap
L859[16:26:26] <Vexatos> crunching numpy
in syntax and matlab in stability and speed
L860[16:26:29] <SquidDev> Vexatos: I
really like R (not used Julia, sorry), but sadly my uni doesn't
like it :/.
L861[16:26:34] <Vexatos> R is pretty
good
L862[16:26:38] <Vexatos> still way slower
than Julia
L863[16:26:42] <Vexatos> but for what it
does, yea
L864[16:26:45] <Vexatos> not bad
L865[16:26:58] <Xal> I will admit that
julia will probably be most comfortable for those coming from the
imperative world
L866[16:26:59] <Vexatos> it's actually,
you know, designed~
L867[16:27:11] <Xal> but it feels like a
compromise
L868[16:27:14] <Xal> well
L869[16:27:16] <Xal> it IS a
compromise
L870[16:27:17] <payonel> Vexatos: you
point out an interseting thing to consider though. it shows to me
part of my true love of programming. "I ~want~ to write this
paper, but first i ~have~ to program this data cruncher" made
me think, "yeah, i'd start working on the program and never
look back
L871[16:27:18] <Vexatos> the only reason
people still pay for matlab is because their programs are already
written in matlab
L872[16:27:22] <Vexatos> scientists are
lazy
L873[16:27:45] <payonel> "
L874[16:27:55] <Vexatos> Julia is a
language that allows being lazy
L875[16:27:57] <Vexatos> this is a good
thing
L876[16:28:07] <SquidDev> Xal: On a rather
more offtopic thing, I'd suggest checking out #proglangdesign on
freenode -they have some interesting discussions on these sorts of
things.
L877[16:28:15] <Vexatos> you _can_ be lazy
but it doesn't make writing good code impossible
L878[16:28:33] <Xal> Vexatos: you have a
misconception that static type systems are slower to program
in
L879[16:28:36] <Xal> this is untrue
L880[16:28:44] <Vexatos> For people who
are not programmers
L881[16:28:51] <payonel> Vexatos: we're
all lazy programmers. i wouldn't simplify it to that. it's sounds
like youre arguing that julia (and math-languages in general, aim
to at least) provide a language to those that don't want to learn
to program
L882[16:28:56] <Vexatos> For people who do
not enjoy programming
L883[16:29:03] <payonel> my concern in
that is that is how we get bad programming languages
L884[16:29:07] <Xal> ^^^^
L885[16:29:12] <Xal> this is how we get
GO
L886[16:29:14] <payonel> haha
L887[16:29:18] <Vexatos> Go away
L888[16:29:41] <payonel> sql, for
example
L889[16:29:44] <Xal> how do you think we
ended up with matlab in the first place?
L890[16:29:53] <Xal> "should we add x
or y?"
L891[16:29:55] <Xal> "nah, they
L892[16:29:58] <Xal> 're
scientists"
L893[16:30:17] <Xal> "they couldn't
possibly deal with x or y and still ~~finish their
papers~~"
L894[16:30:21] <payonel> and COBOL
L895[16:30:38] <Vexatos> "How can you
justify making a language cost two grand a license?" -
"Oh our target group spends that much a week on
water"
L896[16:30:50] <payonel> *snorts*
L897[16:30:51] <payonel> nice
L898[16:31:34] <Vexatos> "hey we need
a new centrifuge" - "which one" - "the cheap
one, €16000" - "I'll get two just to be sure"
L899[16:31:41] <Vexatos> ,_,
L900[16:31:51] <Vexatos> welcome to
industrial chemistry, where money has three digits too many
L901[16:32:22] <Vexatos> meanwhile
academics having to fight over every cent
L902[16:32:26] <Vexatos> yaaay
L903[16:32:42] <Vexatos> Xal, it's true
though
L904[16:32:46] <Vexatos> you live by
writing papers
L905[16:32:49] <Vexatos> by publishing
results
L906[16:32:57] <Xal> I didn't deny
that
L907[16:32:59] <Vexatos> making a program
good does not earn you a cent
L908[16:33:07] <Vexatos> making the
program good enough for you to finish the paper does
L909[16:33:13] <Xal> what I did deny was
that having good tools would slow the process of finishing a
paper
L910[16:33:16] <Vexatos> if you can use a
language that is easier to learn and write
L911[16:33:17] <Vexatos> you save
time
L912[16:33:24] <Vexatos> more time you can
spend on publishing papers
L913[16:33:28] <Xal> static typing is NOT
harder
L914[16:33:41] <Xal> I would argue it is
easier, because common gotchas are caught by the compiler
L915[16:33:48] <Xal> it's about offloading
"programming work" to the computer
L916[16:33:54] <Vexatos> I'd like to
remind you that people use ~python~ to write scientific
software
L917[16:33:59] <Vexatos> because it is the
easiest to learn
L918[16:34:02] <Vexatos> and the least
effort
L919[16:34:04] <payonel> is there a
math-centric programming language that is also a "good"
programming language?
L920[16:34:12] <Vexatos> fortan
L921[16:34:14] <Vexatos> Julia
L922[16:34:16] <Vexatos> that's about
it
L923[16:34:18] <Xal> good programming
languages are "x-centric"
L924[16:34:24] <Xal> are not*
L925[16:34:36] <Vexatos> Julia has the
advantage of having a huge maths-focused stdlib
L926[16:34:38] <payonel> Xal: that isn't
necessarily true
L927[16:34:43] <payonel> Xal: i mean, i
agree with on principal
L928[16:34:45] <payonel> definitely
L929[16:35:00] <Vexatos> I mean there is
absolutely no reason not to use Julia for other things
L930[16:35:01] <payonel> but a good
language could also have syntax sugar for matrices, and
libraries
L931[16:35:13] <payonel> Vexatos: i think
xal just gave a few why julia is bad
L932[16:35:21] <Vexatos> Cruor and I are
currently using Julia for a mapmaking tool for the game
Celeste
L933[16:35:22] <payonel> and
fortran...ugh, no thanks
L934[16:35:30] <Xal> payonel: my point is
that a good general programming language would allow the user to
extend the language with whatever kind of syntactic sugar they
like
L935[16:35:45] <Xal> if you've got ten
million things baked into the language, you cross out entire
markets
L936[16:35:50] <Xal> like the embedded
one
L937[16:35:51] <Cruor> Vexatos: you are
doing anything? d:
L938[16:35:54] <Cruor> D: even
L939[16:35:55] <payonel> Xal: yeah, mostly
yes
L940[16:36:02] <Vexatos> Cruor,
metadata.jl
L941[16:36:21] <SquidDev> Extensible
syntax? This calls for a lisp!
L942[16:36:24] <Vexatos> Xal, but doing
that also allows you to make it easier for your actual target
group
L943[16:36:24] <payonel> not all languages
have the best syntax sugar for common mathy things. and, by
libraries i mean standard libraries
L944[16:36:29] <payonel> not another
licensed library
L945[16:36:31] <Vexatos> Not all languages
have to be general-purpose
L946[16:36:39] <Vexatos> and not all
scientists enjoy writing lisp
L947[16:36:50] <Xal> Vexatos: yes, but
would you rather learn 10 special-purpose languages or 1 general
purpose language and 10 libraries?
L948[16:36:56] <Cruor> (julia is as
general purpose as python)
L949[16:37:01] <Vexatos> Xal, now you are
talking about python
L950[16:37:07] <Vexatos> because that is
literally python
L951[16:37:09] <Xal> no
L952[16:37:15] <Vexatos> and don't tell me
python is good
L953[16:37:20] <Xal> python has little to
no support for extending its syntax
L954[16:37:21] <Vexatos> by any of your
definitions
L955[16:37:30] <payonel> what's wrong with
python? Vexatos
L956[16:37:39] <Forecaster>
%jumble
<Forecaster>
%jumbleL957[16:37:39] <MichiBot> but language
libraries? and languages would you purpose rather 10
special-purpose 10 Vexatos: general or learn 1 yes,
L958[16:37:55] <Forecaster>
learn 1 yes
<Forecaster>
learn 1 yesL959[16:38:06] <Vexatos> payonel, if you
don't care about performance, absolutely nothing. I was talking
about Xal's definitions of a good language
L960[16:38:18] <Xal> Vexatos: python is
not an implementation my dude
L961[16:38:23] <Xal> python is a
language
L962[16:38:33] <SquidDev> Vexatos: But the
whole fun of Python is trying to get numpy to do as much as
possible!
L963[16:38:42] <SquidDev> Meaning you
don't suffer from Python itself being slow.
L964[16:38:47] <Xal> just the same as
fortran is not a language
L965[16:38:50] <Xal> an
implementation*
L966[16:38:53] <Xal> fuck I can't
type
L967[16:39:00] <Cruor> SquidDev: ...
optimizing for numpy to do everything is hell
L968[16:39:04] <Vexatos> SquidDev, a few
weeks ago, I almost word-by-word ported a python script to julia
and got an immediate 10x speed improvement
L969[16:39:12] <Cruor> Vexatos: 3x*?
<_>
L970[16:39:18] <SquidDev> Vexatos: I
rather believe in the Dward Fortress definition of "fun"
:P.
L971[16:39:21] <Vexatos> it was literally
10x at the start
L972[16:39:26] <Vexatos> SquidDev, ah I
see
L973[16:39:30] <Xal> Vexatos: python is
NOT AN IMPLEMENTATION OF THE LANGUAGE
L974[16:39:32] <Vexatos> the scientific
term for that is masochism
L975[16:40:14] <SquidDev> Oh, I thought it
was theoretical physicist.
L976[16:40:59] <Vexatos> I'll have you
know that theoretical chemistry and physics are super fun
L977[16:41:14] <Vexatos> I am considering
getting into theochem
L978[16:41:21] <Vexatos> Because it has
both chemistry and programming
L979[16:41:26] <Xal> pffft, the real world
is boring
L980[16:41:32] <Xal> come to
mathematics
L981[16:41:49] <Vexatos> you are kind of
implying that theoretical chemistry has anything to do with the
real world anymore
L982[16:41:58] <Vexatos> it just happens
to produce numbers that the real world accepts
L983[16:42:07] <SquidDev> Vexatos: I doubt
doubt it. I've a friend doing computational physics, and it sounds
like they're having a whale of a time. Maybe in the future...
L984[16:42:10] <Vexatos> the real world
stopped in the second week of the first theochem lecture
L985[16:42:20] ⇦
Quits: Thutmose (Thutmose!~Patrick@host-69-59-79-123.nctv.com)
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L986[16:42:35] <Vexatos> theochem is about
as abstract as physics can get, I can tell you that
L987[16:42:50] <Xal> yeah but ya gotta
deal with like, real things
L988[16:42:53] <Vexatos> it literally has
nothing to do with the real world anymore, aside from the
assumptions you make
L989[16:42:56] <Vexatos> no
L990[16:42:58] <Vexatos> you do not
L991[16:43:03] <Vexatos> you deal with
quantum objects
L992[16:43:07] <Cruor> maths is real?
D:
L993[16:43:08] <Xal> which model real
things?
L994[16:43:09] <Vexatos> which are just
mathematical concepts
L995[16:43:12] <Vexatos> nope
L996[16:43:22] <AmandaC> theochem's second
lecture involves abandoning your mortal shell and slipping into the
ether
L997[16:43:22] <Vexatos> it is the other
way around
L998[16:43:27] <Vexatos> the real things
act like quantum objects
L999[16:43:41] <SquidDev> ...and thanks
for reminding me why I'm just doing straight comp-sci.
L1000[16:43:51] <Vexatos> AmandaC, the
second week was literally showing that classical physics does not
work
L1001[16:44:08] <Vexatos> and that you
need maths instead
L1003[16:44:34] <Xal> imagine whatever
you like, there are no boundaries!
L1004[16:44:36] <Vexatos> Friendly
reminder that all of modern physics and chemistry are founded on,
by definition, baseless mathematical assumptions
L1005[16:44:54] <Vexatos> which just
happen to produce numbers that work
L1006[16:45:06] <Cruor> SquidDev: doing
straight residentsleeper? :p
L1007[16:45:11] <Xal> you seem to be
forgetting the part the scientific method has to play in all of
this
L1008[16:45:16] <Cruor> get me away from
second semester Q_Q
L1010[16:45:51] <Xal> "which just
happen to produce numbers that work" sounds a lot like testing
a hypothesis to me
L1011[16:45:54] <Vexatos> Xal, the
craziest part was the lecture where we derived classical physical
formulae from quantum chemistry
L1012[16:45:55] <SquidDev> Cruor:
Resident sleeper? I'm suddenly very confused.
L1013[16:46:13] <Vexatos> Like, some guy
hundreds of years ago empirically found this formula
L1014[16:46:15] <Cruor> compsci first two
semesteres is boring af
L1015[16:46:17] <Vexatos> someone in the
1890s proved it
L1016[16:46:26] <Xal> how can you prove a
formula
L1017[16:46:29] <Xal> what does that even
mean
L1018[16:46:32] <Vexatos> and int eh
1950s someone proves it based on random mathematical
assumptions
L1019[16:46:35] <Vexatos> prove that it
is correct
L1020[16:46:38] <Cruor> by not being able
to prove it wrong
L1021[16:46:50] <Vexatos> i.e. derive it
from something other than an experiment
L1022[16:46:54] <SquidDev> Cruor: Oh,
definitely. But 2nd-4th year are good so I'm not gonna
grumble.
L1023[16:47:01] <Xal> you're talking
about a mathematical theorem?
L1024[16:47:06] <Vexatos> yes
basically
L1025[16:47:19] <Vexatos> physical
formulae are found by doing lots of experiments
L1026[16:47:32] <Vexatos> only centuries
later people manage to actually relate them with one another
L1027[16:47:53] <Xal> nature frequently
follows patterns found in mathematics, yes
L1028[16:47:54] <Vexatos> and then
quantum mechanics came along and related all of those the same
abstract mathematical concept
L1029[16:48:19] <Vexatos> quantum
mechanics are literally a bunch of more or less random baseless
assumptions
L1030[16:48:24] <Xal> bullshit
L1031[16:48:26] <Vexatos> but we use them
because they work+
L1032[16:48:33] <Xal> that's called a
hypothesis my friend
L1033[16:48:36] <Vexatos> yes
L1034[16:48:40] <Vexatos> Well
L1035[16:48:44] <Vexatos> more of a bunch
of axioms
L1036[16:48:55] <Vexatos> it's called the
_theory of quantum mechanics_ for a reason
L1037[16:49:06] <Xal> because's a
hypothesis backed by evidence?
L1038[16:49:13] <Xal> that's literally
what a theory is
L1039[16:49:16] <Vexatos> yes
L1040[16:49:22] <Vexatos> That is what it
is
L1041[16:49:30] <Vexatos> except the
theory was not founded on the evidence
L1042[16:49:44] <Xal> you make a
hypothesis first, yes
L1043[16:49:59] <Vexatos> the equations
weren't empirically or statistically found
L1044[16:50:13] <Vexatos> they were made
up from basically nothing
L1045[16:50:18] <Xal> a hypothesis
L1046[16:50:28] <Vexatos> yea it's a
proper mathematical theory
L1047[16:50:32] <Vexatos> that is
literally what I am saying
L1048[16:50:36] <Vexatos> it is _not
normal physics_
L1049[16:50:42] <Xal> sounds a lot like
normal physics to me
L1050[16:50:50] <Xal> einstein made some
hypothesis
L1051[16:50:54] <Xal> and then people did
experiments
L1052[16:50:57] <Xal> and they
agreed
L1053[16:50:59] <Xal> tada
L1054[16:51:01] <Vexatos> no, every
equation in normal physics is based on existing data
L1055[16:51:01] <Xal> theory of
relativity
L1056[16:51:10] <Xal> Vexatos:
nope!
L1057[16:51:22] <Vexatos> "oh look
there is a linear relation to energy and force"
L1058[16:51:50] <Xal> the theory of
general relativity was largely thought up without the use of data
because very little was available
L1059[16:52:01] <Vexatos> yes
L1060[16:52:05] <Vexatos> so?
L1061[16:52:12] <Vexatos> that is not
classical physics either
L1062[16:52:19] <Vexatos> that's
literally the second base of modern physics
L1063[16:52:28] <Xal> what is your
definition of "classical physics" then?
L1064[16:52:46] <Vexatos> anything before
relativity and quantum mechanics which are the two theories that
modern physics are based on
L1065[16:53:04] <Xal> sounds right
L1066[16:53:14] <Vexatos> They contradict
each other but are each good for some of physics
L1067[16:53:17] <Vexatos> so noone really
cares
L1068[16:53:27] <Xal> I assure you people
care a lot
L1069[16:53:30] <Vexatos> yes
L1070[16:53:38] <Vexatos> but only
theoretical physicists :⁾
L1071[16:53:43] <Xal> and there are a lot
of hypothesis
L1072[16:53:49] <Xal> nobody's been able
to test them
L1073[16:53:58] <Vexatos> relativity is
largely irrelevant in chemistry, so theochem is 95% quantum
mechanics
L1074[16:54:11] <Vexatos> since chemistry
is all about those electrons and photons
L1075[16:54:23] <Vexatos> which just
happen to behave like quantum objects
L1076[16:54:27] <SquidDev> From my one
semester of chemistry I remember being told "this theory is
entirely bollocks, but it's a useful model so we're teaching
it". Pretty much my experience with most of the physical
sciences.
L1077[16:54:37] <Vexatos> chemistry is
all about models
L1078[16:54:47] <Vexatos> you use
whichever model is best for your application
L1079[16:54:49] <Vexatos> none of them
are wrong
L1080[16:54:53] <Vexatos> none of them
get the whole picture
L1081[16:55:01] <Vexatos> You just use
the model for your cutout of the picture
L1082[16:55:18] <Vexatos> no need to talk
about quantum mechanics when doing a simple acid-base
reaction
L1083[16:55:28] <Xal> I'm afraid I've
literally forgotten about what we were originally talking
about
L1084[16:55:37] <Vexatos> you _do_ need
to talk about quantum mechanics when you do nucleophilic
substitution though
L1085[16:55:54] <Vexatos> Xal, you were
agreeing with me on how amazing Julia is as a programming
language
L1086[16:56:07] <Xal> haha
L1087[16:57:02] <Vexatos> julia is damn
good, all it needs if it wants to properly replace python in the
technical computing sector is a better ecosystem
L1088[16:57:12] <Vexatos> that wasn't its
initial goal, anyway
L1089[16:57:17] <Xal> good /= better than
python
L1090[16:57:29] <Vexatos> good = better
than anything near it
L1091[16:58:00] <Vexatos> I've recently
had to use some statistical analysis software written in
python
L1092[16:58:06] <Vexatos> that
L1093[16:58:12] <Vexatos> wasn't very
nice
L1094[16:59:28] <Xal> vexatos you need
some haskell in your life
L1095[17:01:09] <SquidDev> Xal: I love
Haskell, but oh boy does a lot of work need to be done before it's
usable in every domain.
L1096[17:01:23] <Xal> yeah it need
dependent types and more users
L1097[17:01:43] <Vexatos> haskell is a
good concept
L1098[17:01:47] <Vexatos> A good proof of
concept
L1099[17:01:56] <Vexatos> "yes, you
can make a pure functional programming language"
L1100[17:02:01] <Vexatos> "but that
doesn't mean it's useful"
L1101[17:02:17] <Xal> seems pretty useful
to me
L1102[17:02:58] <AmandaC> %choose veg out
to romance, or horror or action
L1103[17:02:58] <MichiBot> AmandaC: veg
out to romance,
L1104[17:03:55] <SquidDev> Xal: WRT
dependent types, I've been directed to inform you of https://hackage.haskell.org/package/singletons
L1105[17:04:36] <AmandaC> singletons make
no sense. How can a program weigh anything, let alone a whole
ton?
L1106[17:04:44] *
AmandaC flees off to watch anime and veg
L1107[17:07:16] <Forecaster> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/341410873304285184/428599580637003777/IMG_20180328_175825.jpg
<Forecaster> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/341410873304285184/428599580637003777/IMG_20180328_175825.jpgL1108[17:07:24] <Forecaster> What
<Forecaster> WhatL1109[17:09:11]
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(Inari!~Pinkishu@p5dec6106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: 'The Neutron
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(Chadwick))
L1110[17:11:34] <AmandaC> @Forecaster ...
Gruling 'idol training' to say nothing of the recovery and
dilation
L1111[17:11:47] <AmandaC> Anyway,
ttfn
L1112[17:12:56] <payonel> AmandaC:
o/
L1113[17:13:09] <payonel> goodnight
L1114[17:23:48] <payonel> %lua
mod1=function(x, m) return ((x - 1) % m) + 1 end
L1115[17:27:07] <Vexatos> %sel mod1 = (x,
m -> ((x - 1) % m) + 1)
L1116[17:27:08] <MichiBot> main:1:
<name> expected near '128'
L1117[17:27:15] <Vexatos> selene is so
broken right now
L1118[17:27:18] <Vexatos> I wonder what I
did
L1119[17:27:32] <Vexatos> %sel
"HellO"
L1120[17:27:33] <MichiBot> main:1:
<name> expected near '97'
L1121[17:27:37] <Vexatos> yea everything
is brok
L1122[17:30:19]
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L1125[17:57:45] <payonel> xarses_: my tty
refactor is mostly done
L1126[17:58:21] <payonel> i've had to
divide the idea of input and output, cursor read and cursor writes
to a greater deal of separation than before
L1127[17:58:36] <payonel> so that i can
even begin to consider having shared "behavior" between
shell and editor
L1128[17:59:03] <Vexatos> pattyonel
L1129[18:00:53] <chernobyl> @Forecaster#5880 teh TV
anime
<chernobyl> @Forecaster#5880 teh TV
animeL1130[18:03:48]
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L1131[18:20:18]
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L1132[18:20:27] <tinydoggy> howdy
L1133[18:23:04] <payonel> %weather
67570
L1134[18:23:06] <MichiBot> Current
weather for Pretty Prairie, KS Current Temp: 63.0°F/17.2°C Feels
Like: 63.0°F/17.2°C Current Humidity: 55% Wind: From the North 0.0
Mph/0.0 Km/h Conditions: Overcast
L1135[18:31:04]
zsh sets mode: +v on Xilandro
L1136[18:31:08] ***
Xilandro is now known as Kodos
L1137[18:31:09] <Kodos> Howdy
L1138[18:34:56] <chernobyl> impersonator
<chernobyl> impersonatorL1139[18:37:20] <Kodos> Lol no
L1140[18:37:32] <Kodos> Xilandro is my
alternate nick, I just don't have it grouped atm
L1141[18:37:36] <S3> oh yeah I need to
set the environment of a coroutine.. gotta remember how I did
that
L1142[18:37:46] <S3> I used load to do
the actual env stuff
L1143[18:37:54] <payonel> S3:
load(...env) is the only way now
L1144[18:38:03] <payonel> in 5.1 days you
could set env on a function
L1145[18:42:10] <tinydoggy> anyone have a
good tutorial for drones?
L1146[18:45:21] <Izaya> ~w custom
os
L1147[18:45:21] <ocdoc> Predicted
http://ocd.cil.li/tutorial:custom_oses
L1148[18:45:26] <Izaya> Closest there is
to it
L1149[19:13:30]
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L1151[19:28:30] <Kodos>
Alternatively, you could look at how the waypoint example code was
made
<Kodos>
Alternatively, you could look at how the waypoint example code was
madeL1152[19:32:19]
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L1153[19:32:57] <tinydoggy> so i flashed
a drone bios program to an eeprom and it wont let me craft it onto
the drone
L1154[19:33:30]
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L1156[19:38:29] <AmandaC> tinydoggy:
there was a bug with that in OC 1.7.1, update to 1.7.2
L1157[19:38:47] <AmandaC> %choose movie
or TV or ona
L1158[19:38:47] <MichiBot> AmandaC:
ona
L1159[19:50:11]
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L1160[20:02:15] <payonel> tinydoggy:
exactly what amanda said, update to 1.7.2
L1161[20:02:17] <payonel> in fact, always
update
L1162[20:02:19] <payonel> :)
L1163[20:41:54]
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L1165[20:52:52] <S3> BLAST FROM THE
PAST
L1166[20:52:53] <S3> https://i.imgur.com/cQbjsiU.jpg
L1167[20:53:01] <S3> AmandaC: ^
L1168[21:15:52] <AmandaC> Huh?
L1169[21:15:54]
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L1170[21:20:15] <AmandaC> S3 pls
L1171[21:20:31] <AmandaC> These animes
won't watch themselves
L1172[21:22:01] <AmandaC> Anyway, bed
time before my head explodes from pain
L1173[21:23:51] <S3> Skye: see you people
are so silly with your antisocialness
L1174[21:26:02] <S3> just had an old
ladyknock on my door saying that the taxi cab was going to call the
police on her if she didn't give them like 5 bucks she just didn't
have enough from her trip home so I drove her all the way down to
an atm then met with the taxi to pay her off, she had some
interesting stories you wouldn't otherwise get to experience if you
were in a silly antisocial culture.
L1175[21:26:23] <SF-MC> uh
L1176[21:26:35] <SF-MC> that sounds like
a situation I *wouldn't* want to be in thanks
L1177[21:27:05]
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L1178[21:27:36] <S3> here you can
actually trust people
L1179[21:28:08] <AmandaC> S3: if I did
that here I'd probably end up dead in a ditch
L1180[21:28:31] <AmandaC> That has
nothing to do with antisocialism
L1181[21:28:53] <S3> I was just
teasing
L1182[21:29:00] <AmandaC> Anyway, sleep
for real now. The Twitter's and the webcomics are read
L1183[21:29:26] <S3> here in Maine we
look out for one another. it's just how we do things.
L1184[21:29:48] <S3> we may have
neighbors we dislike, but we'll never let you rot if we can help
it.
L1185[21:38:36] <Xal> would depend on
where you were, and who was asking
L1186[21:38:41] <Xal> old lady and I'm in
the suburbs, sure
L1187[21:39:09] <Xal> but if I do
end up in a ditch
L1188[21:39:17] <Xal> I should probably
set up a deadmans switch or something
L1189[21:39:29] <Xal> app idea:
L1190[21:39:44] <Xal> set up a server on
a raspberry pi with all your personal info
L1191[21:39:55] <Xal> have a phone app
that reports your location back to the server
L1192[21:40:15] <Xal> if you don't go in
your house for 2 days it emails it all to the police
L1193[21:41:11] <Xal> "You can find
my dead body at 48.23N 122.36W"
L1194[22:06:49]
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L1195[22:07:25] <Nightmare> Xal, what about vacation?
<Nightmare> Xal, what about vacation?L1196[22:08:18] <Xal> the app lets you
configure the deadman switch
L1197[22:08:29] <Xal> so if you unlock
your phone once a day
L1198[22:08:31] <Xal> you're all
good
L1199[22:10:10] <S3> Xal: well. One
interesting thing to keep in mind
L1200[22:11:23] <S3> most people here do
not wear their seat belt. I do not have anti lock brakes. If I was
in a situation where somebody pointed a gun to my head I'd slam on
the brakes.
L1201[22:12:03] <S3> especially in a
jeep, there's a good chance itl knock you right out.
L1202[22:12:43] <S3> but I had no fear of
that
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L1204[22:34:10] <S3> Thutmose: Hey
there!
L1205[22:34:18] <S3> And welcome to the
lair
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