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L14[05:19:16] <guest> hello
L15[05:29:22] <MGR> Hello guest!
L16[05:29:41] <MGR> %hello
L17[05:29:41] <MichiBot> Hello! Welcome to #oc! The one and only opencomputers channel! Please ask your questions directly (dont ask to ask) and provide error/code examples! (Use pastebin.com if theyre more than one line!) Dont mind the random conversation you might have walked into.
L18[05:33:37] <ben_mkiv> hi
L19[05:48:46] <Kodos> Howdy
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L21[06:24:10] ⇦ Quits: AshIndigo (~AshIndigo@79-67-166-122.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)
L22[06:38:01] <guest> thread seems does not work unless main program in os.sleep.(oc 1.62 and openos 1.6.8)
L23[06:40:02] * Skye throws payonel at guest
L24[06:40:19] <Skye> he wrote the thread library, so he should be able to help if he's online
L25[06:40:46] <guest> wow. the mighty creator. thanks
L26[06:41:17] <Skye> ...if he's online
L27[06:41:22] * Skye shakes payonel
L28[06:44:27] <MGR> He is dead
L29[06:45:08] <guest> thanks for your attention anyway
L30[06:48:17] <guest> does os.sleep() == os.sleep(0.05)??
L31[06:48:57] <MGR> No, I think it equals os.sleep(0)
L32[06:49:03] <MGR> Let me check
L33[06:49:17] <MGR> ~w non standard
L34[06:49:17] <ocdoc> Predicted http://ocd.cil.li/api:non-standard-lua-libs
L35[06:49:42] <guest> there is no mention about it
L36[06:50:41] <MGR> Os.sleep is mentioned, but not the default value
L37[06:50:55] <MGR> And I can't check right now, as I am on mobile
L38[06:51:25] <Mimiru> http://ocdoc.cil.li/api:thread there is a small snippet there
L39[06:52:54] <Skye> wait
L40[06:52:58] <Skye> guest, I think I know what's happening
L41[06:53:05] <Skye> Lua is NOT normal multitaksing
L42[06:53:07] <Skye> it's preemptive
L43[06:53:09] <Skye> uh
L44[06:53:15] <Skye> s/preemptive/cooperative/
L45[06:53:15] <MichiBot> <Skye> it's cooperative
L46[06:53:19] <Skye> NOT preemptive
L47[06:53:20] <Skye> essentially
L48[06:53:29] <Skye> code had to "yeild" to let other threads run
L49[06:53:43] <Skye> now in a long running piece of code that interacts with components and APIs
L50[06:53:47] <Skye> this does happen enough
L51[06:53:58] <Skye> it won't be visible in small amounts of code
L52[06:54:05] <Skye> so, instead of os.sleep
L53[06:54:14] <Skye> try using io.read()
L54[06:54:59] <MGR> Ah yes
L55[06:55:10] <MGR> It is not simultaneous multithreading
L56[06:56:04] <MGR> /concurrent multitasking (to differentiate from the SMT in CPUs, which is different)
L57[06:58:42] <guest> does 'yield' means... main thread(main code) must return(as like function) something to let other threads work?
L58[07:00:44] <Mimiru> no.. os.sleep(0) is enough
L59[07:02:09] <Skye> guest, os.sleep(0), event.pull(0)
L60[07:02:12] <Skye> or anything that pulls events
L61[07:02:26] <Skye> event.pull(0) tends to be the lightweight one
L62[07:02:42] <MGR> Really? I usually do os.sleep(0)
L63[07:02:46] <MGR> Good to know
L64[07:02:47] <Skye> and I think payonel designed threads to allow one to use event.pull(0) without eating events
L65[07:02:57] <guest> event.pull suspends briefly also to.
L66[07:03:11] <guest> clever!
L67[07:07:51] <guest> if thread(A) is multitasked signal reciever using event.pull(timeoutless) , can thread A recieve signal even if it gave code stream to main thread due to waiting for signals to come(event.pull)?
L68[07:20:26] <MGR> I think so, but payonel would know
L69[07:20:32] <MGR> He made the thing
L70[07:56:48] <AmandaC> guest: a will run again when the main thread suspends again
L71[07:57:21] <AmandaC> (event.pull, os.sleep, some others I'm forgetting all cause the active thread to suspend)
L72[07:58:36] <AmandaC> That's how threads on oc / Lua work
L73[08:14:05] <Kodos> Okay, so the bad news is my mom's wifi router doesn't reach upstairs very well
L74[08:14:23] <Kodos> The good news is I pick up like 7 of the neighbors' internet, including an unprotected one so I'm using that temporarily
L75[08:14:38] <Kodos> Luckily it's the mom and stepdad of an old friend, so I know they wont' mind
L76[08:14:47] <Kodos> And I will ask this evening when they get home
L77[08:15:09] ⇨ Joins: AshIndigo_ (webchat@31.221.112.156)
L78[08:17:13] <MGR> @Kodos Get their WPS Pin so you can get in even if they add a password ?
L79[08:18:41] <Mimiru> after over a week of "in transit" to my local post office from the distro center less than 60 miles away...
L80[08:18:49] <Mimiru> my Star Wars poster made it to the local office!
L81[08:19:38] <MGR> Whoo!
L82[08:20:13] <AshIndigo_> %stab znc
L83[08:20:13] * MichiBot stabs znc with a quantum hug doing [10] damage
L84[08:20:21] <Mimiru> and my Assassin's Creed: Origins will be delivered today too!
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L87[08:29:53] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L88[08:35:30] <MGR> ~w component.modem
L89[08:35:30] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/api:component
L90[08:49:29] <MGR> ~w modem
L91[08:49:29] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component:modem
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L93[08:56:41] * Saphire sighs
L94[08:56:54] <Saphire> I swear i once saw developers of http://store.steampowered.com/app/330460/Celestial_Command/ in chat or something?
L95[08:57:14] <Saphire> Bad thing is that I don't remember which of 200+ chats I saw them in
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L98[09:23:46] <Mimiru> Oh.. right.. I'm still connected to ZNC
L99[09:23:49] <Mimiru> lol..
L100[09:26:17] <payonel> Skye: sorry i wasn't online. thanks all for helping
L101[09:28:08] <payonel> a thread cooperates when it yields. 2 ways to yield a thread from any context: 1. coroutine.yield() [from the root coroutine in the thread], or 2. computer.pullSignal
L102[09:28:33] <payonel> os.sleep and event.pull also call computer.pullSignal
L103[09:29:26] <payonel> os.sleep is os.sleep(0), which is calls computer.pullSignal(0)
L104[09:30:08] <payonel> which has the chance to not yield your executor thread (java-land) if you have any pending events
L105[09:31:21] <payonel> note that io.read when stdin is a file handle does not yield
L106[09:31:55] <payonel> does not yield cooperatively+
L107[09:32:48] <payonel> io.read when stdin is tty DOES yield, but that is because tty's stdin calls event.pull to get key hits, which as stated, is a computer.pullSignal, which cooperate
L108[09:32:52] <payonel> cooperates*
L109[09:33:03] <Saphire> ...should I buy that Celestial Command? o..o
L110[09:35:59] <payonel> Skye: and yes, event.pull() does NOT rob events from the init thread nor any other thread
L111[09:36:29] <payonel> e.g. if you have an event.pull() in a thread, as well as in your init thread -- they EACH would get the next event
L112[09:36:40] <payonel> how? magic
L113[09:37:01] <payonel> this feature is important, it makes thread code work THE SAME whether it is executed in a thread, or directly
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L117[10:11:59] <Vexatos> payonel, does shell.execute produce a new thread the program is run in?
L118[10:13:59] ⇦ Quits: vakermit (webchat@67-198-74-102.dyn.grandenetworks.net) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
L119[10:14:06] <payonel> technically, it only produces a process. in openos lingo a process is lightweight, and a thread is like an advanced process
L120[10:14:33] <payonel> i know that is weird and a bit backwards, but it was done for 1. keeping existing api that uses /lib/process unchanged, and 2. memory
L121[10:14:52] <Vexatos> Thing is, If it spawned a new thread, one could create a new thread inside a program, detach() it and attach() it to the parent thread (which would then be the shell/main thread) and you'd just have created a daemon process
L122[10:15:22] <payonel> yeah, and i want that too
L123[10:15:41] <Vexatos> Right now, there isn't a good way to have background processes other than completely detach()ing them
L124[10:17:14] <payonel> yep. it's something i can refactor later without breaking api
L125[10:18:03] <payonel> i wanted to finish thread without refactoring process
L126[10:18:39] <payonel> now that thread is reliable, it would be worth it to revisit "init thread" (which isn't really a thread) and the process<->thread relationship
L127[10:20:52] <payonel> Vexatos: a solution i have considered is making any process able to automagically self promote to a thread when you treat it like one
L128[10:21:53] <payonel> there is thread.current(), and calling that from any process, including the init process, would return a thread
L129[10:22:01] <payonel> and you could use that object to detach
L130[10:22:18] <payonel> so for all intents and purposes, at that point shell.execute() WOULD be creating threads
L131[10:22:24] <Vexatos> Like
L132[10:22:39] <Vexatos> local t = thread.current() t:detach() t:attach(2) et voilà?
L133[10:22:45] <Vexatos> or does :attach automatically detach
L134[10:22:45] <payonel> yes
L135[10:22:52] ⇨ Joins: Inari (~Pinkishu@p5dec62c4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L136[10:22:52] <payonel> attach auto detaches
L137[10:23:02] <Vexatos> so just thread.current():attach(2) then
L138[10:23:08] <payonel> yes
L139[10:23:18] <Vexatos> to make <myself> a background process
L140[10:23:22] <payonel> yep
L141[10:24:24] <payonel> in case anyone is reading this out of context :) this is not yet supported
L142[10:24:41] <payonel> well, thread.current():attach(2) is
L143[10:24:47] <payonel> but not on just any process
L144[10:24:58] <payonel> today, it works on threads you've explicitly created
L145[10:25:19] <payonel> Vexatos: and note that t:detach() actually attaches your thread to the init process
L146[10:26:06] <Vexatos> so by default, t:detach does nothing at all
L147[10:26:11] <Vexatos> when run from just a normal program.lua
L148[10:26:25] <Vexatos> since it already is on the init process
L149[10:26:58] <payonel> not quite. when you create a thread, t, in program.lua...t is attached to program.lua
L150[10:27:16] <payonel> attach() attaches to processes
L151[10:27:16] <Vexatos> Well yes
L152[10:27:57] <payonel> program.lua's exit blocks until t completes
L153[10:28:06] <Vexatos> Big problem is that you cannot control a detach()ed process nicely unless you do something like reading from a file/named pipe
L154[10:28:07] <payonel> but if you call t:detach(), program.lua exists without blocking
L155[10:28:23] <payonel> !!
L156[10:28:27] <payonel> openos needs named pipes
L157[10:28:40] <payonel> ho-ly crap
L158[10:29:01] <Vexatos> Like, I want a way to stop a detach()ed or, really, any thread
L159[10:29:15] <Vexatos> so you can deal with orphaned processes
L160[10:30:03] <payonel> well i need to add a kill arg to /bin/ps
L161[10:30:06] <payonel> that would help too
L162[10:30:17] <payonel> or just add /bin/kill
L163[10:30:57] <Vexatos> and a way to spawn a program in the background
L164[10:31:06] <Vexatos> i.e. something that executes a program, but doesn't block the shell
L165[10:31:31] <Vexatos> So you can, like, spawn dmesg piping its output to a file
L166[10:31:36] <Vexatos> without that blocking shell
L167[10:31:49] <payonel> but you mean specifically, you want a shell way to do that
L168[10:31:54] <Vexatos> So you can execute stuff while dmesg runs in the background and catches events
L169[10:32:00] <Vexatos> yes
L170[10:32:03] <Vexatos> a /bin way
L171[10:32:19] <payonel> well i could handle &
L172[10:32:24] <payonel> dmesg > log &
L173[10:32:54] <Vexatos> Yea that would basically do it I think
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L175[10:39:08] <Inari> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNJuEGvUEAIZfav.jpg:large so cute
L176[10:44:08] <Saphire> payonel: ... Basically &
L177[10:44:13] <Saphire> Oh derp
L178[10:45:14] <Saphire> payonel: ... Why the hell would ps have kill option?
L179[10:50:39] <payonel> Saphire: because sometimes my ignorance visible
L180[10:50:51] <payonel> that's why i said, "or just add /bin/kill"
L181[10:51:01] <Saphire> Yeah, just do that o..o
L182[10:51:22] <payonel> sometimes i just speak too soon, before i've thought out what my idea
L183[10:51:25] <Saphire> Because I'm in the exactly right mood to go and slap someone for all things wrong
L184[10:51:32] <payonel> haha
L185[10:51:40] <Saphire> Hey, don't worry too much about that
L186[10:51:42] <payonel> i might be in the mood to be slapped
L187[10:52:03] <Saphire> Btw, on GitHub issues you sounds so...
L188[10:52:12] * payonel hides
L189[10:52:25] <Saphire> "Fuck this, closed because not in plans/scope/etc"
L190[10:52:44] <Saphire> I mean, I get that there are lots of dumb issues
L191[10:53:17] <Saphire> But when a interesting idea pops up and gets closed in one sentence... It feels very very off
L192[10:54:10] <payonel> that's valuable feedback
L193[10:54:12] <Saphire> Like, you know, random huge corporation trying to do GitHub project and some clerk boredly following a protocol
L194[10:54:18] <payonel> i definitely don't want people to feel that way
L195[10:54:30] <payonel> yeah
L196[10:54:58] * Saphire slaps payonel with a marshmallow :P then hugs softly
L197[10:55:07] <payonel> oh i like hugs too!
L198[10:55:41] <Saphire> hah :P
L199[10:55:42] <payonel> and, the idea of being slapped with a paddle made of marshmallows sounds amazing
L200[10:55:56] * Saphire wiggles eyeridges
L201[10:56:18] <vifino> Hello.
L202[10:56:30] <Saphire> Heya
L203[10:56:39] <Saphire> What's up, vifino?
L204[10:57:04] <vifino> payonel: You're alive? Thought you died in the great war of OpenOS.
L205[10:57:23] <payonel> vifino: :)
L206[10:57:25] <vifino> In fact, I already ordered your tombstone and funeral.
L207[10:57:36] <vifino> That's a bit awkward...
L208[10:58:06] <payonel> let's enscribe "liked hugs" on it
L209[10:58:11] <Saphire> payonel: but yeah, pulling stupid issues with barely any content and huge typos into alley and slicing their throat with a single sentence Closed message is fine. But when it's a big post talking about a new things...
L210[11:02:07] <payonel> Saphire: do you have an example one i could add some comments to?
L211[11:02:29] <Saphire> Hmm, too lazy to lurk for it
L212[11:02:50] <Saphire> ...I honestly can see why you are like that.
L213[11:03:02] <Saphire> I can't keep up with casually reading issues
L214[11:03:13] <Saphire> And handling each of them...
L215[11:03:26] <Saphire> That just screams "burning out"
L216[11:04:48] <payonel> that makes sense, I can see that's how I might sound
L217[11:08:41] <MGR> GPU compute or Coprocessors
L218[11:08:45] <Saphire> You sound like a clerk just doing random paperwork and not caring much about it attached all except for being correct u
L219[11:09:11] <Saphire> Oh, yeah, that was the one issue that I was thinking "Wait, just like that?"
L220[11:09:19] <Saphire> Also the network one
L221[11:09:24] <MGR> Which one?
L222[11:09:33] <MGR> I named two ?
L223[11:11:11] <payonel> ok i did an aweful job with the coproc issue
L224[11:11:12] <payonel> definitely
L225[11:11:26] <payonel> but the gpu compute thing we entertained and discussed at length
L226[11:11:36] <MGR> Mhm
L227[11:11:42] <MGR> Mhm
L228[11:11:44] <MGR> Oops
L229[11:11:58] * Saphire hugs payonel
L230[11:12:04] <MGR> I would have left it open until I can learn OpenCL.....
L231[11:12:12] <Saphire> And that's why I like chats much better
L232[11:12:26] <MGR> Yes
L233[11:30:19] <MGR> Having a fast math SIMD unit could be very interesting
L234[11:30:42] <MGR> It could accelerate certain workloads, and allow people to experiment with cryptography
L235[11:30:54] <MGR> CompanionCube, ^
L236[11:31:09] <MGR> Coprocessors are nice
L237[11:32:18] <Saphire> But
L238[11:32:39] <Saphire> Wouldn't coprocessor be just another component like data card basically?
L239[11:34:06] <MGR> Yes
L240[11:34:18] <MGR> But a compute one
L241[11:34:33] <MGR> You would have to share or allocate RAM with it
L242[11:43:52] <MGR> Sometimes, I find odd things for work http://tinyurl.com/yd2kloeh
L243[11:46:20] <Mimiru> USB to serial, female to female serial, db-9 to db-25 adapter?
L244[11:46:44] <Mimiru> or.. male to male db-9 I mean.
L245[11:47:09] <Mimiru> since if that's like the USB to serials I have it's already a female serial port..
L246[11:50:34] <MGR> Yes
L247[11:51:18] <MGR> And then the DB25 port gets adapted on a circuit board to a bunch of wires that go to another board
L248[11:51:23] * CompanionCube wonders if generic cryptography is GPU-friendly (excluding cryptocurrency)
L249[11:51:40] <MGR> Some is
L250[11:57:56] <AmandaC> %choose watch or play or meh
L251[11:57:56] <MichiBot> AmandaC: play
L252[12:40:59] ⇨ Joins: xarses (~xarses@67.218.117.86)
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L254[12:57:12] <payonel> Saphire: https://github.com/MightyPirates/OpenComputers/issues/2283
L255[12:57:50] <Saphire> Hmm?
L256[13:06:06] ⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@p579720AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L257[13:14:38] ⇦ Quits: Cervator (~Thunderbi@2601:4c1:4000:1050:d831:5fa6:f8b:6e5e) (Quit: Cervator)
L258[13:23:47] <Skye> uh
L259[13:23:56] <Skye> ocdoc.cil.li doesn't support HTTPS
L260[13:26:17] <Mimiru> Yep, it USED to be worse... it'd direct to some random website.
L261[13:26:20] <Mimiru> atleast now it errors.
L262[13:32:44] ⇨ Joins: Wiiplay123 (~kvirc@adsl-72-154-25-63.bna.bellsouth.net)
L263[13:34:03] <Saphire> payonel: nice!
L264[13:38:07] <Mimiru> payonel++
L265[13:38:07] <MichiBot> Mimiru: sugoi now has 2.0 points
L266[14:00:41] <Inari> Mimiru: So where was that website redirect comin from xD
L267[14:02:32] <Mimiru> Some German magazine IIRC
L268[14:02:35] <Mimiru> don't remember specifics
L269[14:02:48] <Inari> I mean like
L270[14:02:49] ⇨ Joins: Dark (~MrDark@2607:fcc8:d48b:eb00:311e:347b:2a84:8277)
L271[14:02:50] <Inari> Why did it redirect
L272[14:02:54] <Mimiru> The issue was IT listened on https, and ocdoc didn't
L273[14:03:03] <Inari> Ah
L274[14:03:10] <Inari> Weird
L275[14:06:04] <Inari> I finally found it again. And by accident
L276[14:06:52] <Inari> That stupid song from z0r.de/144 Or well, at least one version of it.
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L278[14:11:02] <Inari> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLBZRZwiJ5w
L279[14:11:03] <MichiBot> the Time is Now | capsule | length: 6m 33s | Likes: 450 Dislikes: 14 Views: 120,380 | by capsuleandPerfume | Published On 13/8/2009
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L282[14:39:45] <Inari> Lolli Lolli Lollipop~
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L284[14:45:10] <vifino> CompanionCube: Not really, cryptography is usually quite hard to parallelize
L285[14:45:57] <Inari> Doesn't that depend on the cipher and such?
L286[14:51:31] <AmandaC> %choose computer or no
L287[14:51:31] <MichiBot> AmandaC: no
L288[14:52:02] <AmandaC> Sounds good
L289[14:53:19] <vifino> Inari: Of course it does, but the operation itself is not easily parallelized, only if you have a lot of data encrypted/decrypted the same way/operating on blocks of data
L290[14:53:31] <Inari> I suppose so
L291[14:53:46] <vifino> GPU computing only shines when you can absurdly parallelize something.
L292[14:54:06] <vifino> Otherwise, a CPU'll probably do quite a bit better.
L293[14:58:40] <Inari> AmandaC: Computer says no to computer
L294[15:01:01] <MGR> Yes, it depends on if the cipher works on small enough blocks of data, or if you have a large enough set to extract useful performance from a GPU
L295[15:01:50] <MGR> A "low-end" dedicated GPU has over 700 "cores", so you need a good amount of parallelization to really get the most out of them
L296[15:01:56] <AmandaC> Inari: indeed
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L300[16:16:19] <AmandaC> %choose recomputer to download or download tomorrow
L301[16:16:19] <MichiBot> AmandaC: recomputer to download
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L306[18:10:07] <Muanh> hey guys, you have experience with scala in intelliJ?
L307[18:10:33] <Muanh> trying to follow a guide on how to make minecraft mods
L308[18:11:04] <Muanh> i changed the language from java to scala
L309[18:11:09] <Muanh> i can still build from command line
L310[18:11:24] <Muanh> but my intellij gives me the following errors
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L312[18:11:40] <Muanh> Error:scalac: 'jvm-1.8' is not a valid choice for '-target'
L313[18:11:40] <Muanh> Error:scalac: bad option: '-target:jvm-1.8'
L314[18:13:36] <guest> hello
L315[18:13:51] <guest> another problem here :)
L316[18:13:57] <guest> https://pastebin.com/g2anKBwx
L317[18:14:14] <guest> this code yields too long without yield
L318[18:14:24] <guest> what is wrong?
L319[18:14:29] <guest> error:
L320[18:14:38] <guest> https://pasteboard.co/GQW1Jn2.png
L321[18:14:47] <Mimiru> So... yield in the loop.
L322[18:14:50] <Mimiru> os.sleep(0)
L323[18:16:18] <guest> declaring variables not considerd as yielding?
L324[18:16:33] <AmandaC> No
L325[18:16:52] <Mimiru> ^
L326[18:16:56] <AmandaC> You only yield when you os.sleep or event.pull, as I said earlier
L327[18:19:07] <guest> so , If code is too long that it takes several seconds to process, it would make error. is it correct?
L328[18:19:19] <Mimiru> IIRC the default is 5 seconds
L329[18:19:38] <AmandaC> Yes, if you don't yield you get that error
L330[18:20:14] <AmandaC> It's to stop computers from lagging the mc server too much
L331[18:21:08] <guest> yielding %= os.sleep or event.pull(0). I will try .thanks!!
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