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L1[00:00:20] <ironmountain> Sounds pretty groovy to me
L2[00:01:10] <Temia> well, most likely outcome is a BSOD, so...
L3[00:01:31] <Temia> If I can pull it off without causing a kernel panic too, even better.
L4[00:03:42] <ironmountain> Hey, do you have any experience getting emoji to render in a terminal?
L5[00:03:53] <ironmountain> Ican't seem to get it to work
L6[00:04:58] <Temia> In OC or Linux?
L7[00:05:53] <ironmountain> linux
L8[00:08:13] <Temia> Haven't tried, honestly. In my experience though, font rendering in most GTK and Qt apps precludes full-colour emojis, which means support is usually a font-dependent crapshoot and restricted to black-and-white representations.
L9[00:08:43] <ironmountain> Well thanks, I'll do some more research
L10[00:09:15] <Temia> Do tell me how that goes, I'm curious if there's something I can do about rendering them in Corebird
L11[00:11:06] <Temia> Anywho, nini.
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L15[00:45:23] <Izaya> not being able to render emoji is hardly a loss
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L20[01:05:24] <gamax92> I ended up just using a patched cairo for colored emoji.
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L35[06:16:48] <LuMistry> Greetings
L36[06:18:57] <S3> Temia: OCLinux!
L37[06:21:28] <S3> gamax92: Yay. Inventing pattern matching in Forth..
L38[06:27:18] <MGR> S3, go Forth and conquer?
L39[06:27:55] <MGR> Eh?
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L41[06:28:30] ⇨ Joins: infina (~infina@caligula.lobsternetworks.com)
L42[06:29:03] <S3> LOL
L43[06:29:07] <MGR> Yay!
L44[06:32:27] <MGR> S3, so, how far along are you with the Forth OS?
L45[06:33:06] <MGR> OC4THOS
L46[06:33:56] <S3> There isn't much to it. I'll probably have a demo up this weekend for people to play with. I got most of the core internals done last night. the scary part is that they are all in forth not Lua XD
L47[06:34:09] <MGR> That's pretty sweet
L48[06:34:11] <S3> https://hastebin.com/tohizijete.4th
L49[06:34:31] <S3> the interpreter and compiler are there even!
L50[06:34:34] <S3> in forth
L51[06:34:52] <MGR> There is indeed code there!
L52[06:35:03] <MGR> Mind jumping on Discord for a minute?
L53[06:42:46] <Saphire> Meanwhile, I am learning Lisp o..o
L54[06:42:53] * Saphire nibbles on Izaya
L55[06:43:28] <Izaya> Forth, Lisp... tis a good day
L56[06:43:36] <Saphire> Hm?
L57[07:02:54] <Forecaster> Today is a good day to lisp
L58[07:05:19] <Corded> * <MGR> lisps
L59[07:07:44] <S3> Saphire: Lisp is great
L60[07:07:49] <S3> Saphire: want to know a horror story?
L61[07:08:00] <S3> Lisp has a goto.
L62[07:08:36] <S3> Forth and Lisp are actually quite similar
L63[07:08:42] <Izaya> how does lisp even have a goto
L64[07:08:44] <S3> not syntatically, of course
L65[07:08:47] <S3> Izaya: EXACTLY
L66[07:08:56] ⇨ Joins: techno156 (~techno156@137.154.29.33)
L67[07:09:16] <Corded> * <MGR> begins finding the relevant xkcd
L68[07:09:46] <MGR> xkcd.com/292
L69[07:09:46] <MichiBot> XKCD Comic Name: goto Posted on: 7/20/2007
L70[07:11:48] <Corded> * <MGR> summons the velociraptors
L71[07:12:14] <S3> you should all learn the Plankalkül programming language
L72[07:13:12] <S3> Did you think Fortran was the first one? guess again.
L73[07:13:25] <MGR> I'm going to go with "no"
L74[07:13:37] <S3> Plankalkül will be 70 years old next year.
L75[07:14:07] <MGR> Yay?
L76[07:14:36] <S3> Plankalkül came out in the 40s
L77[07:15:33] <S3> but the idea started in the 30s
L78[07:15:42] <Saphire> Izaya: hey want something horrifying?
L79[07:15:48] <MGR> Ok
L80[07:15:53] <Saphire> "jmp" and all the variants of it are literally goto
L81[07:16:04] <Izaya> Saphire: that's different
L82[07:16:14] <Izaya> only someone loopy writes machine code/asm for a current processor
L83[07:16:28] <Izaya> (and eh if you want to be really loopy, just use MOV instead of JMP)
L84[07:16:31] <Saphire> Izaya: okay, goto in middle of c++ OOP program is weird and horifying
L85[07:16:40] <Saphire> pffft, just use MOV for everything!
L86[07:16:43] <Izaya> yes C has goto and that's scary
L87[07:16:56] <S3> Saphire: (Saphire Saphire)
L88[07:17:43] <S3> | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - ....
L89[07:18:02] <Gavle> You surprise me Izaya. I thought you would program in machine code.
L90[07:18:04] <S3> hmm that doesn't look so easy to follow when you look at it
L91[07:18:19] <Izaya> Gavle: did I ever say I wasn't loopy?
L92[07:18:43] <Gavle> No.
L93[07:18:52] <Izaya> :3
L94[07:18:59] <S3> Izaya: there is like, 1 legitimate reason to ever use a goto in C
L95[07:19:10] <S3> and that reason is to look like an idiot
L96[07:20:01] <Gavle> It's good to know that my matrix maintains its predictiveness then. Developing new ones is ever so tedious.
L97[07:20:30] <AmandaC> You guys know the.guy who started that rule isn't nearly as much of an anti-goto zelot as it's become right? There are valid reasons to use it in complicated error handling or other complex control flow things.
L98[07:20:55] <S3> I am trying to think of a good way to reference components in Forth
L99[07:21:55] <AmandaC> He's actually rather upset of how far it's gone. His recommendation wasn't "never use go-to, ever" it was "use go-to as a last resort to clean up complicated code"
L100[07:22:25] <S3> knock knock
L101[07:22:38] <AmandaC> Nobody's home, fuck off
L102[07:22:58] <S3> XD
L103[07:23:01] <S3> knock knock?
L104[07:23:06] <MGR> Who's there?
L105[07:23:12] <S3> predictive branching.
L106[07:23:14] * Izaya pulls the lever
L107[07:23:23] <Corded> * <MGR> mutters that he's going to regret this
L108[07:23:27] <MGR> predictive branching who?
L109[07:23:51] <S3> Saphire: Have you looked at sweet expressions?
L110[07:24:27] <MGR> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
L111[07:25:35] <Forecaster> "This is a recording, leave a message"
L112[07:29:31] <Forecaster> That also works in reverse...
L113[07:29:42] <Forecaster> "This is a message, leave a recording"
L114[07:29:54] <Mimiru> message a leave, recording a is this?
L115[07:29:54] <Mimiru> :p
L116[07:30:26] <Lizzy> message recording is a this leave a?
L117[07:30:28] ⇨ Joins: _g__k (~D3p1H800K@43.249.39.214)
L118[07:30:43] <Mimiru> %reverse This is a recording, leave a message
L119[07:30:44] <MichiBot> Mimiru: egassem a evael ,gnidrocer a si sihT
L120[07:30:57] <LuMistry> Yes, that
L121[07:31:31] ⇦ Parts: _g__k (~D3p1H800K@43.249.39.214) ())
L122[07:32:08] <S3> %js Array(16).join("wat" - 1) + " Batman!"
L123[07:32:09] <MichiBot> NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaN Batman!
L124[07:33:25] <LuMistry> Not a number man!
L125[07:33:47] <S3> huh
L126[07:33:53] <S3> this spelt backwards almost says shit
L127[07:35:14] <Izaya> S3: http://pb.i0i0.me/p/9OyYI9Ye
L128[07:35:56] <S3> he has to fix that runtime error..
L129[07:36:17] <MGR> Is that an emu for OC?
L130[07:36:25] <Izaya> no
L131[07:36:30] <MGR> The bird, or an emulator
L132[07:36:32] <Izaya> it's an emu for fighting in wars
L133[07:36:40] <Izaya> duh
L134[07:36:51] <S3> hmm
L135[07:36:57] <MGR> I can't track what you're saying
L136[07:37:07] <MGR> It IS an OC emulator
L137[07:37:15] <MGR> It seems rather short
L138[07:37:44] <S3> It's not overcomplicated.
L139[07:38:22] <Izaya> not an OC emulator
L140[07:38:29] <Izaya> it's an emulator written in Lua
L141[07:38:43] <MGR> What does it emulate?
L142[07:38:43] <Izaya> it would run on OC, yes, but that's not the main purpose
L143[07:38:58] <Izaya> MGR, the third emulation of my SSM
L144[07:39:04] <Izaya> s/emulation/revision/
L145[07:39:04] <MichiBot> <Izaya> MGR, the third revision of my SSM
L146[07:39:06] <Izaya> what am I doing
L147[07:39:08] <MGR> SSM?
L148[07:39:14] <Izaya> Shitty Stack Machine
L149[07:39:25] <MGR> Wat
L150[07:39:42] <Izaya> the original version was 12-bit and rather inconvenient, honestly
L151[07:39:44] <S3> RAWR
L152[07:40:03] <Izaya> after that I tried for 16 and it never panned out
L153[07:40:03] <MGR> What does your stack machine do?
L154[07:40:08] <S3> wife didn't put the clothes in the dryer so now all my clothes are wet
L155[07:40:12] <Izaya> now 8 seems to be the magic number
L156[07:40:12] <S3> and I gotta get to class
L157[07:40:23] <Izaya> MGR, what does any 8-bit processor do?
L158[07:41:27] <MGR> Compute things?!
L159[07:41:36] <Izaya> I guess so.
L160[07:41:52] <Izaya> Anyway, it's simple and efficient enough to run say, 65536 instances of it no sweat
L161[07:41:55] <S3> oh yeah check this out
L162[07:41:55] <S3> http://www.excamera.com/sphinx/fpga-j1.html
L163[07:42:08] <Izaya> J1 forth CPU, right?
L164[07:42:18] <MGR> I don't know what an 8-bot processor does, so *shrugs*
L165[07:42:41] <S3> the J1 is a Forth CPU
L166[07:42:45] <S3> you can write your Forth on it
L167[07:43:03] <Izaya> MGR, what does a 64 or 32 or 16 or 4 (or 128)-bit processor do?
L168[07:43:44] <MGR> Compute
L169[07:43:48] <S3> why powers of 2?
L170[07:43:52] <MGR> More technically, do math really fast
L171[07:43:52] <Izaya> precisely
L172[07:43:59] <S3> the cpu in minecraft I last started doing was 12 bit
L173[07:44:05] <S3> 12 bit cpus are actually very nice
L174[07:44:17] <Izaya> S3: because not many people know about 12 or 18 or 36 bit processors
L175[07:44:21] <Izaya> 12 bit is very nice
L176[07:44:34] <g> 128 bit pls
L177[07:44:42] <S3> 4K of address space, octal friendly...
L178[07:44:46] <g> (like we'll need that any time soon..)
L179[07:44:48] <S3> it's all you need
L180[07:44:57] <Izaya> S3: does a super simple 12-bit stack machine with a bitmapped display sound like something you'd want?
L181[07:45:00] <g> but can it run crysis?
L182[07:45:23] <S3> g can
L183[07:45:27] <S3> the g cpu
L184[07:46:05] <Saphire> 17 bit!
L185[07:46:06] <S3> the g cpu has a 19 bit data bus, a 7 bit address bus, and a 13 bit phase accumulator
L186[07:46:16] <Saphire> Huh
L187[07:46:17] <MGR> Phase accumulator?
L188[07:46:32] <MGR> That sounds sci-fi
L189[07:46:33] <S3> 13 channel phase accumulator*
L190[07:46:46] <S3> as sci fi as it sounds, it is very real
L191[07:47:19] <AmandaC> %tell inari Consider this: Anime-Protaganist Doctor from Doctor Who
L192[07:47:19] <MichiBot> AmandaC: inari will be notified of this message when next seen.
L193[07:47:21] <Saphire> ...firefox
L194[07:47:24] <Saphire> why
L195[07:47:34] * AmandaC shouldn't watch time travel anime before bed
L196[07:47:35] <Saphire> WHY THE HELL LIBREOFFICE IS DEFAULT PDF HANDLER?!
L197[07:48:01] <MGR> S3, what does it do?
L198[07:50:21] <S3> MGR: It allows for things like data decay and reverb...
L199[07:50:49] <MGR> That's not exactly helpful
L200[07:51:01] <MGR> Explain it like I don't know how CPUs are designed
L201[07:53:02] * Saphire pokes Izaya
L202[07:53:04] <Saphire> https://loomcom.com/genera/genera-install.html
L203[07:53:06] <Saphire> owo
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L209[08:54:49] <AmandaC> %choose watch or play
L210[08:54:50] <MichiBot> AmandaC: watch
L211[08:55:11] * AmandaC disagrees, goes to lay down and play some NMS to try and take her mind off the plague she was infected with
L212[08:55:28] <MGR> NMS?
L213[08:57:48] <Michiyo> net.minecraft.server is all I can ever think of when I see NMS... I KNOW It's No Mans Sky...
L214[08:57:56] <Michiyo> but WAY too long working on old minecraft..
L215[08:58:48] <MGR> Ahhhhh
L216[08:59:03] <MGR> Michiyo, maybe Amanda is playing around with net.minecraft.server?
L217[08:59:12] <Corded> * <MGR> waggles eyebrow
L218[08:59:13] <AmandaC> Michiyo: lol
L219[08:59:30] <AmandaC> No, it's no man's sky
L220[08:59:33] <MGR> Aw
L221[09:00:17] <AmandaC> It's a very good chill-out forget-your-troubles game for me
L222[09:01:02] <MGR> Yeah, I've thought about buying it, but I'm already busy with the games I have so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
L223[09:29:14] <g> I feel like subnautica would be good for that
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L225[09:31:12] <MGR> For me, it's World of Warships
L226[09:31:33] <MGR> Nothing makes me forget my troubles like blowing stuff up with 8 406mm/45cal guns
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L228[09:31:47] <MGR> And then I feast on the enemy's salty tears
L229[09:38:52] <AmandaC> g: they scratch the same itch, yeah
L230[09:39:18] <AmandaC> g: but while I've got most of subnautica explored, when I get bored of a planet in NMS I can fly off and got to a newone
L231[09:39:24] <g> the difference for me is that I'd probably play subnautica
L232[09:39:34] <g> but subnautica is still early access I think
L233[09:39:46] <AmandaC> went stable last month, I think
L234[09:39:49] <AmandaC> ( I own both )
L235[09:40:06] <g> I've seen a streamer playing "experimental" recently and apparently there's a lot of new stuff, so iunno
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L239[10:05:59] <CompanionCube> Saphire: didn't think you were that type...
L240[10:06:20] <Saphire> CompanionCube: huh?
L241[10:08:41] <gamax92> typeof Saphire
L242[10:09:12] <Saphire> "dragon"
L243[10:09:29] <CompanionCube> to link a lisp machine article :p
L244[10:10:49] <MGR> gragr, discord blocks the s/ whatever
L245[10:11:03] <g> It doesn't block it, it implements it
L246[10:11:12] <MGR> Yeah
L247[10:11:19] <MGR> But it blocks it for my purposes ?
L248[10:11:53] <MajGenRelativity> s/"dragon"/"corundum"
L249[10:11:53] <MichiBot> <Saphire> "corundum"
L250[10:12:03] <MGR> There we go
L251[10:14:44] <MGR> I'd actually like to make synthetic corundum someday, but I don't have the equipment
L252[10:15:48] <g> synthetic conundrum
L253[10:16:01] <MGR> Now, I can do THAT
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L255[10:22:11] *** Ai is now known as Vi
L256[10:31:58] <AmandaC> Audio Interface -> Video Interface
L257[10:34:41] <Syrren> that is really confusing when I have nick-changes smartfiltered away
L258[10:35:28] <g> "smartfiltered" is an amusing way to say you turned off nick messages
L259[10:35:28] <MGR> Heh
L260[10:36:15] <Syrren> g: I used that term for lack of others to describe that my IRC client is only hiding such messages when the user has not spoken within 5 minutes before/after the message in question
L261[10:36:17] <Syrren> thus "smart" filter
L262[10:36:34] <g> oic
L263[10:36:47] <Syrren> ditto for joins, parts, quits
L264[10:37:21] <AmandaC> weechat?
L265[10:37:29] <Syrren> yep
L266[10:37:56] <MGR> Corded deletes joins, parts, and quits, but apparently not name changes
L267[10:37:58] * AmandaC uses IRCCloud, which has the advantage of being able to collapse them into a single line, and use a slightly smaller font fot it.
L268[10:38:09] <MGR> This sometimes leads to me speaking to people who have left
L269[10:38:16] <Syrren> heh
L270[10:39:20] <Syrren> while weechat doesn't collapse them, I can press a key to toggle filtering (retroactively), for a channel or globally
L271[10:40:03] <MGR> That's pretty nice
L272[10:40:09] <AmandaC> retroactive /ignore undo is a thing I really like about IRCCloud, too.
L273[10:40:21] <Syrren> :-P
L274[10:40:29] <MGR> One of the projects I'm looking into will privately deliver quits to me so I don't look like an idiot too often
L275[10:40:44] <Syrren> why not s/discord/bouncer/ ?
L276[10:41:15] <MGR> What?
L277[10:41:39] <Syrren> IRC bouncer, that is
L278[10:41:51] <g> a lot of people find discord nicer than any IRC client
L279[10:41:52] <MGR> Are you asking why I don't use a bouncer instead of Discord?
L280[10:42:15] <Syrren> Pretty much
L281[10:42:42] <g> I think Syrren would hate the idea I'm forming
L282[10:42:42] <g> lol
L283[10:42:58] <Syrren> if it's "migrate #oc totally to discord" then probably yes
L284[10:43:01] <g> nope
L285[10:43:04] <Syrren> :-)
L286[10:43:13] <g> something along the lines of a bot that would allow you to use discord as your IRC bouncer
L287[10:43:18] <g> using a server dedicated to that purpose
L288[10:43:42] <MGR> A. Because Discord has a fairly good client for my phone. B. I like Discord's interface better. C. Discord lets you edit/delete messages. D. Discord has better server management features. E. Discord has better channel groupings and stuff. F. Discord has group DM's. G. Discord has voice calls
L289[10:43:46] <Syrren> g: nothing wrong with that -- although I will say that I believe there are better options
L290[10:43:57] <g> the better option is not bitlbee
L291[10:43:57] <g> lol
L292[10:44:00] <Syrren> lol, no
L293[10:44:13] <Syrren> I'm thinking of Matrix
L294[10:44:17] <g> discord has channel categories now MGR
L295[10:44:19] <g> matrix is alright
L296[10:44:24] <g> not really as powerful yet
L297[10:44:33] ⇨ Joins: Thutmose (~Patrick@2602:30a:c0ab:a810:4d36:a37d:18cf:dda5)
L298[10:44:38] <Syrren> although I am using bitlbee for unifying XMPP (i.e. Hangouts) into my IRC client
L299[10:44:49] <g> I used to use bitlbee a lot
L300[10:45:03] <g> I just happen to be working on a bot framework that would be a fantastic base for this purpose
L301[10:45:12] <MGR> g. Wait, they finally rolled out categories?!
L302[10:45:13] <Syrren> ;)
L303[10:45:28] <g> It's in vanary
L304[10:45:30] <g> canary*
L305[10:45:33] <g> as well as the android/ios betas
L306[10:45:34] <MGR> ohhhhhhhh
L307[10:45:38] <MGR> Ok
L308[10:45:45] <g> works really well tbh
L309[10:45:46] <MGR> I knew they were working on it
L310[10:45:52] <MGR> I can't wait ?
L311[10:46:06] <g> it's as good as it sounds
L312[10:46:10] <g> you should use canary, it's very stable
L313[10:46:45] <g> OK, work's over, o/ for now
L314[10:46:54] <Zerray> good day guys!
L315[10:47:12] <MGR> How does channel grouping work with people on your server not using canary?
L316[10:47:12] *** Michiyo is now known as MichiTest
L317[10:47:36] <AmandaC> "Don't make me use my dad voice!"
L318[10:47:43] <Zerray> need an expert for minecraft "mods" errors
L319[10:47:57] <MGR> Provide the logs
L320[10:48:00] <MGR> please
L321[10:48:02] <Syrren> Zerray: Don't ask to ask, just ask! :)
L322[10:48:10] *** MichiTest is now known as Michiyo
L323[10:49:08] <Zerray> http://imgur.com/a/KEGq9
L324[10:49:21] <Zerray> this error spawns the server consol
L325[10:49:32] <MGR> Well, it looks like you have an error with Mekanism
L326[10:50:03] <MGR> Perhaps ask in #mekanism?
L327[10:50:08] * AmandaC drags an unconcious goat over to Zerray "You'll need this"
L328[10:50:15] <MGR> That too
L329[10:50:18] <Zerray> mekanism got allways errors :D
L330[10:50:44] * CompanionCube thinks matrix might be more powerful due to federation and application services...
L331[10:50:44] <Michiyo> gl;hf!
L332[10:50:53] <Temia> D:
L333[10:51:04] * Temia unties the goat and returns it to the wild
L334[10:51:19] <AmandaC> Temia: no! What will Zerray sacrafice to LexManos now!?
L335[10:51:26] <MGR> ^^^^^
L336[10:51:29] <Zerray> wtf xD
L337[10:51:41] <Temia> Could always sacrifice LexManos to himself
L338[10:51:50] <Saphire> ...
L339[10:51:53] <MGR> https://www.reddit.com/r/linus140/comments/6wcdhs/satisfying_cthulhu_pictures/
L340[10:52:10] <Saphire> C-n C-b C-f C-p
L341[10:52:14] <Saphire> ...emacs, what the fuck?
L342[10:52:15] <Zerray> well I gues the server tps lags could be an issue with mekanism aswell? Do you know how to detect an tps problem?
L343[10:52:27] <MGR> What's your MC version?
L344[10:52:40] <Saphire> https://xkcd.com/1530/ - a typical Emacs user? :V
L345[10:52:40] <MichiBot> XKCD Comic Name: Keyboard Mash Posted on: 5/27/2015
L346[10:52:42] <Michiyo> But yeah.. theres nothing we're going to be able to help you with there.. theres a null in that packet, which is likely causing the packet handler to choke..
L347[10:52:43] <CompanionCube> Saphire: what did you expect
L348[10:52:52] <CompanionCube> emacs is the king of weird keyboard shortcuts
L349[10:52:53] <Temia> Opis used to provide a profiling tool that would help narrow it down. Back in 1.7, I used it to identify a bugged alveary that was bringing a server down to a crawl
L350[10:52:56] <CompanionCube> (even if it's better than vim)
L351[10:53:09] <Zerray> corded: 1.10.2
L352[10:53:16] <Michiyo> Corded is a relay bot..
L353[10:53:16] <Temia> These days though, not sure.
L354[10:53:18] <Michiyo> MGR is the user.
L355[10:53:19] <Lizzy> @MGR ^
L356[10:53:20] <Syrren> Saphire: to figure out what emacs just smoked, C-h l
L357[10:53:31] <Zerray> oh ok :D
L358[10:53:34] <Syrren> L for Lossage, lists the last 500 keys, and if you're on a sufficiently new version, it'll list the commands they ran!
L359[10:53:39] <MGR> Zerray, then you can't use Opis ?
L360[10:53:43] <Lizzy> also what the fuck did you do to your name @[ˈvɛk͡satɔs]?
L361[10:53:50] <MGR> Lol
L362[10:54:00] <CompanionCube> they Unicode'd it?
L363[10:54:09] <Zerray> well any other idea?^^
L364[10:54:10] <Lizzy> would seem that way
L365[10:54:13] <Michiyo> @Lizzy feel free to nick it back :P
L366[10:54:18] <Syrren> CompanionCube: http://www.eeemo.net/
L367[10:54:20] <Lizzy> nah
L368[10:54:25] <AmandaC> Zerray: go to #mekanism, we can't help with another mod's problem
L369[10:54:26] <Saphire> hjkl at least makes ergonomic sense
L370[10:54:40] <Michiyo> it's ok, just no discord mentions from IRC for Vex.. :p
L371[10:54:41] <Saphire> bfnp is just... uh...
L372[10:54:51] <Syrren> Saphire: Back, Forward, Next, Previous
L373[10:54:52] <CompanionCube> Saphire: i just use the arrow keys
L374[10:54:56] <CompanionCube> because fuck that shit.
L375[10:54:56] <Michiyo> Cause I'm pretty sure SOMETHING will choke on this @[ˈvɛk͡satɔs]
L376[10:55:04] <Michiyo> yep.
L377[10:55:17] <CompanionCube> I also use the arrow keys in vim, because fuck that too
L378[10:55:18] <Saphire> Syrren: I know, but... Do you realize in what fucked up position the hands are?
L379[10:56:08] <Syrren> Sure. I also realize that navigation should also be done via searching etc., not just mashing traversal keys
L380[10:56:35] <Syrren> and I don't touch-type "correctly" so my hands are all over the place anyway
L381[10:56:52] <Syrren> which, afaik, while reducing my efficiency somewhat apparently saves me from RSI too
L382[10:57:04] <MajGenRelativity> @Vexatos
L383[10:57:11] <MGR> That works
L384[10:57:15] <Syrren> lastly, if you want vim keys in emacs... you can get them!
L385[10:57:49] <Syrren> install 'evil' - Extensible VI Layer
L386[10:58:14] <Syrren> I'd probably be using it myself, but I use too many non-text modes for it to be comfortable
L387[10:58:24] <Syrren> (non-text modes i.e. magit, dired and the like)
L388[10:59:38] <Syrren> Saphire: I'm curious, what's your opinion on "ergonomic" layouts/keyboards?
L389[11:03:28] <Saphire> Syrren: "wry"
L390[11:03:45] <Saphire> Okay, uh... I don't care about maximizing the efficiency of typing
L391[11:03:54] <Saphire> I type half-blind, honestly.
L392[11:03:59] <Saphire> *only half...
L393[11:04:17] <Syrren> fwiw those kbs aren't (usually) about efficiency
L394[11:04:26] <Syrren> they're about maximum health
L395[11:04:29] <Saphire> Ah
L396[11:04:31] <Saphire> ...meh
L397[11:04:39] <Syrren> avoiding ulnar deviation and all that kind of shit
L398[11:10:12] <Saphire> Syrren: holy f...
L399[11:10:25] <Inari> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJiOaXEVAAAU6LX.jpg:large cool shadow, cute clothes
L400[11:10:30] <Saphire> emacs tutorial honestly uses words like "if your terminal doesn't have..."
L401[11:10:34] <Saphire> or "works on any terminal"
L402[11:10:37] <Saphire> ...
L403[11:10:44] <Inari> AmandaC: I'd totally watch a Dr. Who anime
L404[11:10:52] <AmandaC> Inari: haha
L405[11:11:01] <AmandaC> Inari: I dreamt about an Anime Protaganist version of Dr Who
L406[11:11:22] <Forecaster> @Lizzy it's phonetics I think :P
L407[11:11:25] <AmandaC> I shouldn't watch time travel anime before bed methinks
L408[11:11:46] <Inari> https://twitter.com/videocats/status/907630826648686592
L409[11:11:46] <MichiBot> Tue Sep 12 10:43:46 CDT 2017 @videocats: Cats choose you https://t.co/35j4f9ajMp
L410[11:12:19] <Syrren> Saphire: well, yeah, what if you're only using a black-and-white terminal rather than the newfangled true-color consoles we have today \o/
L411[11:12:38] <Saphire> .-.
L412[11:12:47] * CompanionCube just uses emacs the way he wants to
L413[11:12:54] <Syrren> emacs in the tty is totally a thing
L414[11:13:04] <CompanionCube> sometimes it's tty, sometimes GUI
L415[11:13:13] <CompanionCube> ...but always with cua-mode
L416[11:13:38] <Syrren> how does that not totally screw you over with respect to C-x and C-c sequences?
L417[11:13:50] <CompanionCube> Syrren: timeouts.
L418[11:13:54] <Syrren> ...ouch
L419[11:14:00] <CompanionCube> I think that's how it works
L420[11:14:07] <Temia> Urist McStudent cancels action Attend School: adopted by cat
L421[11:14:07] <CompanionCube> I've never actually noticed it
L422[11:14:17] <Syrren> ah
L423[11:14:42] <Syrren> I never tried cua, kinda "went native" from the start :p
L424[11:14:57] <MGR> Commodore brought the C64 back
L425[11:15:00] <CompanionCube> what's been more annoying is when I accidentally do C-x f not C-x C-f
L426[11:15:54] <Syrren> CompanionCube: (define-key global-map (kbd "C-x f") 'ignore)
L427[11:16:38] <Syrren> or if you want it to DWIM, replace 'ignore with 'find-file
L428[11:16:56] <CompanionCube> Syrren: https://github.com/samis/dotfiles-emacs/blob/master/init.el
L429[11:17:14] <Saphire> .__.
L430[11:17:24] <Saphire> while vim is kinda weird
L431[11:17:28] <Saphire> Emacs is just hell
L432[11:17:41] <Syrren> anything in particular you're frustrated by?
L433[11:17:42] <CompanionCube> I find vim to be weird because modes
L434[11:17:57] <Syrren> there's unfortunately quite a few bad (legacy) defaults
L435[11:18:18] <Syrren> CompanionCube: I recommend moving custom.el's stuff into a separate file for sanity's sake
L436[11:18:56] <Syrren> also, instead of :ensure t all the time, (setq use-package-always-ensure t)
L437[11:19:08] <CompanionCube> one of my reasons for choosing emacs is that it bends to my will better than Vim.
L438[11:19:17] <Syrren> lastly, you might want to move some of those :init's to :config's
L439[11:19:50] <Syrren> CompanionCube: I have to ask, have you tried Org-mode yet?
L440[11:19:59] <CompanionCube> Syrren: yes, didn't stick
L441[11:20:13] <CompanionCube> it was certainly interesting to try though
L442[11:20:36] <Syrren> it's kinda shitty as a todo system (imo), but makes a great markup format and time-tracking system
L443[11:20:58] <Syrren> like, I wrote my Honours thesis in org-mode with bits of embedded LaTeX
L444[11:21:47] <CompanionCube> heavy usage of org-export/org-tangle?
L445[11:21:57] <Syrren> export, yeah. no tangling though
L446[11:22:19] <AmandaC> I went from using Vim poorly to using practically none of EMACS
L447[11:22:25] <AmandaC> ( Then moved further )
L448[11:22:30] <Syrren> I fucked around with tangling for config files and such, didn't stick
L449[11:22:46] <CompanionCube> AmandaC: who would use EMACS today ._.
L450[11:22:47] <AmandaC> ( "Using Vim poorly" = Always in edit mode )
L451[11:23:13] <AmandaC> CompanionCube: I did for like, 4-5 months before jumping to a hipster editor. :P
L452[11:23:22] <CompanionCube> i mean with the capitals
L453[11:23:25] <AmandaC> oh
L454[11:23:26] <Syrren> CompanionCube: at my current job all of the programmers in the company are using Emacs as per corporate policy
L455[11:23:27] <AmandaC> meh
L456[11:23:45] <AmandaC> ISTR the manual calls it all-caps-emacs
L457[11:23:47] <MGR> Such things would, quite naturally, be of higher quality than anything made out of mundane old matter. In the universe of real physics, claiming something is "made out of pure energy" is flat out nonsensical — it makes as much sense as saying you can make a car "out of pure velocity," or make pasta "out of pure yummy". --- Quote 1/3
L458[11:23:53] * CompanionCube felt like being pedantic with EMACS vs GNU Emacs
L459[11:23:56] <Syrren> admittedly some are using evil-mode
L460[11:24:10] <Syrren> @MGR why does that sound like talesfromtechsupport
L461[11:24:20] <AmandaC> Because it is.
L462[11:24:22] <MGR> It's from tvtropes.com
L463[11:24:28] <AmandaC> Ah
L464[11:24:33] <MGR> But it does fit right in with talesfromtechsupport
L465[11:24:33] * Syrren twitches
L466[11:24:33] <AmandaC> I forgot about tvtropes
L467[11:24:56] <Syrren> it's 2am and I must resist the black hole innocently labeled as TvTropes
L468[11:25:00] <Syrren> MUST RESIST
L469[11:25:06] <MGR> Lol
L470[11:25:10] <Forecaster> pasta isn't pure yummy?! D:
L471[11:25:12] <MGR> JOIN ME IN THE DARK SIDE!
L472[11:25:14] <Forecaster> lies
L473[11:25:31] * AmandaC offers to delete Syrren's interest in the kind of lol-so-meta analaysis prevelent in tvtropes
L474[11:25:41] <Syrren> @MGR I already have to use Windows for work, I'm in the dark side enough already
L475[11:25:52] <MGR> Windows is good though
L476[11:25:53] <CompanionCube> GNU Emacs on Windows per policy?
L477[11:25:58] <CompanionCube> that's a ....unique combination
L478[11:26:11] <Syrren> CompanionCube: GNU Emacs as per policy because custom language with tight integration. Windows because our clients are on Windows :(
L479[11:26:17] <AmandaC> CompanionCube: they have to remote into a shared server to edit the souce on. Who needs VCS?
L480[11:26:24] <AmandaC> source*
L481[11:26:30] <Syrren> we are using VCS... but it's Perforce.
L482[11:26:40] <CompanionCube> how good's perforce?
L483[11:26:54] * CompanionCube currently has p4merge installed but that's it
L484[11:26:55] <MGR> The book Secret Weapons of World War II reports one non-scientist military type suggesting that research be done on "solidifying" searchlight beams to grab planes and smash them into the ground. ---Quote 2/3
L485[11:26:59] <Syrren> it's good for certain types of workflows
L486[11:27:19] <Syrren> tl;dr: it's a VCS, rather than a DVCS, and that pisses me off
L487[11:27:43] <AmandaC> It's also a clusterfuck of hate and puss, AIUI, from some game devs I know
L488[11:27:53] <Syrren> I'm working in R&D, so my stuff is usually very "decoupled" -- but I can't queue up commits locally ala git
L489[11:28:02] <CompanionCube> doesn't it also have weird editor integration?
L490[11:28:10] <Syrren> or share them in a "sub-team" either, without futzing around with GLOBAL branches
L491[11:28:13] <CompanionCube> i.e you must tell it ahead of time what files you want to edit
L492[11:28:20] <Syrren> you don't have to do that
L493[11:28:48] <Syrren> it doesn't track for you, but you can "reconcile offline work" to have it check and auto "edit" stuff afterwards
L494[11:29:17] <Syrren> as for integration - there's p4.el
L495[11:29:19] <Syrren> it's shit
L496[11:29:22] <Michiyo> We used perforce when we were working with UDK.. I hated it, I ran the server.. and wanted to shot myself, a lot.
L497[11:29:33] <Michiyo> shoot*
L498[11:30:00] <CompanionCube> isn't it expensive in terms of licensing too?
L499[11:30:04] <Syrren> there's about a dozen people in the company slowly pushing for a transition to git or mercurial
L500[11:30:24] <Syrren> some small project's been chosen as a pilot a month ago or so
L501[11:30:30] <CompanionCube> I assume you would pick git over mercurial?
L502[11:30:34] <Syrren> personally, yeah
L503[11:30:40] <Syrren> but I'd pick any sane DVCS over fucking p4
L504[11:30:44] * CompanionCube has been trying out mercurial recently
L505[11:30:49] <CompanionCube> it's been nice to try
L506[11:30:55] <Syrren> I'd miss magit.el though
L507[11:31:16] <CompanionCube> yeah, the mercurial equivalent really isn't
L508[11:31:27] <Syrren> oh btw, you probably want to look at git-gutter/git-gutter-fringe
L509[11:31:39] <Syrren> adds added/removed/changed annotations to buffers
L510[11:31:48] <CompanionCube> I do like hg's UI though
L511[11:32:01] <Syrren> supports staging/unstaging/reverting hunks direct from said buffers too
L512[11:32:17] <Syrren> the combination of git-gutter-fringe and magit makes for a REALLY efficient workflow
L513[11:33:05] <Syrren> anyways, I should go sleep
L514[11:33:17] <Syrren> \o
L515[11:35:02] <MGR> Good night!
L516[11:44:55] ⇦ Quits: smoke_f7 (~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
L517[11:46:19] <Zerray> is there a way to change the range of the waypoints?
L518[11:46:40] ⇨ Joins: Cervator (~Thunderbi@2601:4c1:4000:1050:9cb7:4faa:5c6b:aaf0)
L519[11:48:56] <MGR> I thought their range was linked to the map on the navigation upgrade
L520[11:49:20] <Zerray> uhm how far is that? :D
L521[11:49:23] <Forecaster> "<my street address> is popular on Google Maps. Add your photots for thousands to see."
L522[11:49:28] <Forecaster> somehow I doubt that...
L523[11:50:22] <MGR> Zerray, depends on the size of the map you place in the navigation upgrade
L524[11:50:31] <MGR> You can put differently zoomed out maps in it
L525[11:50:44] <MGR> @Forecaster Sure it is! I camp outside all the time!
L526[11:50:48] <MGR> Wait....
L527[11:50:56] <Zerray> well the default one I gues lol
L528[11:51:04] <MGR> Uh, I forget
L529[11:51:12] <MGR> Maybe 30 blocks radius?
L530[11:51:19] <Zerray> that wouldnt be verry usefull?
L531[11:51:46] <MGR> 128 blocks x 128 blocks is the default map size, and can be zoomed out to 2048x2048
L532[11:52:22] <Zerray> well that was probly the issue my robot never return after moveing 200 blocks away
L533[11:52:28] <Zerray> :D
L534[11:53:00] <MGR> Probably
L535[11:53:11] <Zerray> we need a way to replace parts of the robot ^^
L536[11:53:26] <Forecaster> disassemble it :P
L537[11:53:33] <MGR> You can place an upgrade container in the assembler with the robot, then you can swap upgrades out
L538[11:53:35] <payonel> o/
L539[11:53:36] <AmandaC> disassembler placed next to an assembler will auto-load the ass. with the disass.
L540[11:53:39] <Skye> %math.random(0,1)
L541[11:53:43] <Skye> %lua math.random(0,1)
L542[11:53:43] <MichiBot> 1
L543[11:53:45] <Skye> %lua math.random(0,1)
L544[11:53:45] <MichiBot> 1
L545[11:53:46] <Skye> %lua math.random(0,1)
L546[11:53:46] <MichiBot> 1
L547[11:53:47] <Skye> %lua math.random(0,1)
L548[11:53:47] <MichiBot> 0
L549[11:53:50] <Skye> okay
L550[11:54:06] <MGR> Hello payonel, how are you?
L551[11:54:11] <Zerray> how can I zoom out on the map?
L552[11:54:18] <MGR> You craft paper around it
L553[11:54:39] <payonel> AmandaC: i like my auto ass chunk loaded
L554[11:55:05] <Zerray> ah btw, if my robot got a chunkloader and the waypoint is 200 blocks away, will he still detect the waypoint?
L555[11:56:07] <MGR> Good question
L556[11:56:21] <AmandaC> find out next time, on DRAGON BALL Z
L557[11:56:26] <MGR> Abridged
L558[11:58:36] <Zerray> this map stuff is complicated, I craft a map and zoom it out, it wont start at the center? Iam at the uper right corner now...
L559[12:00:26] <MGR> Uh
L560[12:00:28] <MGR> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
L561[12:00:55] <Corded> * <MGR> mutters that this is why his system won't use the navigation upgrade
L562[12:01:29] <Forecaster> you can just "count steps" instead, then backtrace to return home
L563[12:01:40] <Forecaster> when you exit the map area
L564[12:02:06] <Zerray> yeah I think so, counting is way better then ...
L565[12:02:48] <MGR> Or just dispense with maps at all, and store coordinates internally and track them
L566[12:04:07] <Zerray> when comes the ssd upgrade for instant file save? xD
L567[12:05:17] <MGR> Computronics has an ssd
L568[12:05:29] <MGR> Server Self Destruct
L569[12:06:57] <Zerray> suggestion at a expensive gps upgrade with galacticcraft space station for the exact world position! ^
L570[12:07:28] <Forecaster> you get distances from wireless network cards
L571[12:07:37] <Forecaster> you can use that to triangulate your position
L572[12:08:13] <Zerray> never used them so far, I started a week ago with open computers :D sounds interessting
L573[12:09:15] <MGR> Or, you can program absolute coordinates, and then place the robots at specific offsets, then the system can work from there
L574[12:09:20] ⇨ Joins: _g__k (~D3p1H800K@77.243.191.54)
L575[12:09:24] ⇦ Quits: _g__k (~D3p1H800K@77.243.191.54) (Network ban)
L576[12:09:30] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@p5797254B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
L577[12:12:13] ⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@p5797254B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L578[12:12:29] <Zerray> well Iam gona make some kind of step counting and storing to the drive
L579[12:12:36] <Zerray> Hi ben :p
L580[12:13:05] <MGR> Sounds like a good idea ?
L581[12:13:18] <ben_mkiv> hey
L582[12:14:15] <payonel> ben_mkiv: o/
L583[12:14:30] <payonel> @MGR: i'm tired [sleepy] [to answer your question]
L584[12:14:47] <MGR> Ah, you should go to bed!
L585[12:14:55] <payonel> i stayed up to 2am this morning working out my train+bus transfer plan when i get to germany tomorrow
L586[12:15:06] <MGR> Business trip or vacation?
L587[12:15:07] <ben_mkiv> where you gonna stay in germany?
L588[12:15:45] <payonel> i'll be there for 10 days, munich and dresden
L589[12:16:25] <Zerray> nice, one of my friend live in munich :p
L590[12:18:19] <Forecaster> s/one/one part/
L591[12:18:19] <MichiBot> <Zerray> nice, one part of my friend live in munich :p
L592[12:18:29] <payonel> :|
L593[12:18:31] <Mimiru> Oh... oh my
L594[12:19:02] <MGR> Yeah, I love all my friend!
L595[12:19:13] <MGR> payonel, business trip or vacation?
L596[12:19:23] <Forecaster> maybe the friend is really fat, so they occupy multiple cities
L597[12:19:30] <Zerray> xD
L598[12:19:34] <payonel> mgr: i didn't answer that question
L599[12:19:40] <Zerray> he goes over the chunk boarder
L600[12:20:03] <MGR> Forecaster, I like your thinking
L601[12:20:05] <MGR> payonel, ok
L602[12:20:23] <payonel> :)
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L604[12:20:26] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L605[12:21:14] <Forecaster> it's a [ˈvɛk͡satɔs]!
L606[12:22:26] <Vexatos> At least you know how to pronounce it now :3
L607[12:22:45] <Forecaster> assuming one can read phonetics :P
L608[12:22:53] <Corded> * <Forecaster> emits a horrible screeching sound
L609[12:22:57] <Forecaster> close enough?
L610[12:23:43] <MGR> A. Glad to know my pronunciation is confirmed B. @Forecaster you're on point
L611[12:23:51] <Corded> * <MGR> screeches along with Forecaster
L612[12:24:05] <Forecaster> :P
L613[12:26:43] <Zerray> payonel I doubled the movement speed of the robot in the server cfg. Now it looks like he is teleporting from field to field, is that intented? seems like the animation is to slow
L614[12:26:56] <payonel> don't know about that
L615[12:27:32] <MGR> Zerray, now increase it by 100x, and watch robots outfly drones around the world
L616[12:28:08] <Zerray> yeah!
L617[12:28:26] <MGR> They can be EVERYWHERE
L618[12:28:34] <Corded> * <MGR> rubs chin
L619[12:28:40] <Forecaster> and next: ludicrous speed!
L620[12:28:57] <MGR> You could probably make a semi-existent wall out of robots moving up and down really fast, if it weren't for server ticks
L621[12:29:07] <MGR> @Forecaster You went to plaid!
L622[12:29:25] <Zerray> Ludicrious+
L623[12:33:02] <Toskin> What to do if "df" command stops working?
L624[12:33:09] <S3> TIL I learned in class
L625[12:33:16] <Forecaster> panic!
L626[12:33:19] <MGR> @Toskin Rethink your life
L627[12:33:29] <MGR> Or re-install openOS/that binary file
L628[12:33:30] <S3> All that crazy shit that's been happening over in the middle east is all over a damn book
L629[12:33:37] <payonel> toskin: i nopenos?
L630[12:33:45] <payonel> s/i n/in /
L631[12:33:45] <MichiBot> <payonel> toskin: in openos?
L632[12:33:47] <Inari> S3: today you learned you learned in class?
L633[12:33:54] <S3> yes
L634[12:33:57] <S3> the Henoticon
L635[12:34:03] <Toskin> BTW, it stopped to work on all OpenOS devices.
L636[12:34:08] <S3> it's the root of all middle eastern violence, apparently
L637[12:34:28] <Toskin> Ok, not all, just T2 and up
L638[12:34:32] <MGR> Uh
L639[12:34:36] <MGR> Simultaneously?
L640[12:34:39] <Inari> S3: Sounds questionable
L641[12:34:48] <S3> Inari: oh it makes sense
L642[12:34:55] <payonel> @Toskin: is openos install on a hdd or are your running from floppy, and can you explain "stopped to work" in detail
L643[12:34:58] <MGR> What if you cheat in a new OpenOS floppy and use that to install openOS on a fresh hard drive?
L644[12:34:59] <S3> Do you know what the Henoticon is?
L645[12:35:13] <Toskin> HDD
L646[12:35:29] <Inari> S3: I'm sure a lot of violence is there for other reasons :P
L647[12:35:32] <S3> the Henoicon is part of why the roman empire continued to split in two
L648[12:35:40] <Toskin> And by stopped to work I mean when I use df, it freezes and then throws error.
L649[12:35:54] <MGR> Screenshot of error?
L650[12:36:14] <S3> Inari: right, but I mean like a lot of the really big stuff on tv
L651[12:36:19] <S3> and stuff you read about
L652[12:36:20] <Toskin> NEVERMIND
L653[12:36:37] <S3> apparently all traces back recursively all the way to the Henoticon. wut.
L654[12:36:37] <Inari> S3: It isn't that simple though
L655[12:36:43] <Toskin> I use ServerFS and just now I found out my computers in room with server crashed.
L656[12:36:53] <S3> The response to the Henoticon was not a simple one either.
L657[12:36:57] <Toskin> Looks like df can't handle disconnected /srv/
L658[12:37:20] <payonel> well
L659[12:37:23] <payonel> that's not df's fault per se
L660[12:37:26] <MGR> Ah
L661[12:37:32] <payonel> but bad srv mounted code
L662[12:37:32] <Inari> S3: And if the Hemoticon weren't we'd all be dancing on flower beds
L663[12:37:35] <payonel> which is not openos
L664[12:38:04] <Toskin> Uhuh.
L665[12:41:14] <S3> Inari: Not quite
L666[12:42:35] ⇨ Joins: ironmountain (~anon@mobile-166-172-191-64.mycingular.net)
L667[12:42:54] <Toskin> What good can you put on microcontroller?
L668[12:43:30] <MGR> Something that runs on an EEPROM
L669[12:44:21] <logan2611> ^
L670[12:46:02] <CompanionCube> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotikon uhhh
L671[12:46:11] <CompanionCube> this doesn't line up
L672[12:47:00] <MGR> Already reached that conclusion, just decided to not get involved
L673[12:50:50] <Temia> Advanced network routing based on third-party protocols, redstone-based automation, music boxes...
L674[12:51:15] <Inari> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cat-head-perfume-spray-scent-smell-japan_us_56699076e4b0f290e5221dae
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L678[13:16:15] <Zerray> is there a way to manipulate the shutdown sequenz of a computer? If someone press the shutdown button like do something?
L679[13:17:11] <ben_mkiv> powerbutton doesnt call shutdown
L680[13:17:55] <logan2611> power button just shuts down
L681[13:18:04] ⇨ Joins: ironmountain (~anon@mobile-166-172-191-64.mycingular.net)
L682[13:18:26] <Zerray> ok thx, then I have to find another way :p
L683[13:18:44] <logan2611> for what
L684[13:19:59] <Zerray> I want to recode my navigation system of the robot with step count, but I dont want to write every step directly to the harddrive, so If someone interupt the robot and restart it the latest position is not writen on the drive
L685[13:20:04] <MGR> Zerray, the shutdown button immediately annihilates the computer, but if you type "shutdown" or "reboot" in the shell, it triggers a shutdown event you can listen for
L686[13:20:17] <MGR> Same if you call computer.shutdown
L687[13:21:02] <MGR> The event is named "shutdown" btw
L688[13:21:10] <Zerray> makes sense :D
L689[13:22:04] <payonel> the robot should refuse to move unless position changes have been updated correctly
L690[13:23:17] <payonel> + i.e. saved to disk
L691[13:23:55] <ym> is there any way to connect the oc to my me controller? *dont hate me :D*
L692[13:24:17] <Zerray> if I write to disk everytime the robot makes a step, it will affect the performence ?
L693[13:24:22] <MGR> Have you tried plugging a cable into the controller?
L694[13:24:27] <payonel> Zerray: no
L695[13:25:38] <Zerray> oh okay.. then Iam gona do that :D
L696[13:25:54] <ben_mkiv> ym: depends on your minecraft version
L697[13:26:16] <MGR> Either a cable or adapter should work, right?
L698[13:26:21] <ym> 1.10.2 :o
L699[13:26:27] <MGR> Unless integration was disabled, which I don't think it was
L700[13:26:30] <ben_mkiv> for 1.10.2 you need at least dev build 115
L701[13:26:34] <MGR> Ahh
L702[13:26:43] <ben_mkiv> ym http://ci.cil.li/view/OpenComputers/job/OpenComputers-dev-MC1.10/117/
L703[13:26:52] <MGR> ym, try an adapter, and if that doesn't work, you need to update OC
L704[13:26:54] <ym> ty i'll try it
L705[13:26:56] <ben_mkiv> thats latest 1.10.2 dev build
L706[13:27:05] <MGR> No problem, PM me if you have any other questions
L707[13:27:13] <ben_mkiv> AE2 support was just added back few days ago^
L708[13:27:21] <MGR> Oh
L709[13:27:24] <MGR> Good to know
L710[13:28:32] <ym> and ty ben_mkiv
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L713[13:45:08] <MGR> Quote 3/3 -- A typical exchange generally goes like this: Minister: (outlines government policy) Goverment MPs: HEAR HEAR, HUZZAH, GREAT, HEAR HEAR! Opposition MPs: SHAME! CORRUPTION! HOW DARE YOU!
L714[13:54:12] <Forecaster> yeah, that's how it is at the dinner table *every* night
L715[13:54:14] <Forecaster> it's terrible
L716[13:54:32] <Forecaster> everyone always outlining policies
L717[14:09:31] <Zerray> how would you make a stopwatch ? for performence messure
L718[14:13:33] <MGR> Zerray, measure the computer.uptime at one point, and then measure it again after operations
L719[14:13:37] <MGR> @'
L720[14:13:45] <MGR> @Forecaster Wow, that sounds pretty bad
L721[14:14:12] <Zerray> ah I tried os.clock() that gave me horrible results xD
L722[14:14:30] <MGR> Ah
L723[14:15:56] <Zerray> wow that is verry precision, my os sleep from 1 seconds is excactly 1000ms in messure pin point xd
L724[14:16:47] <MGR> Lol
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L726[14:26:46] <logan2611> that is verry precision
L727[14:26:47] <logan2611> ok then
L728[14:27:19] <Zerray> *precisely :P
L729[14:28:03] <Zerray> stop hating my bad english!
L730[14:29:07] <MGR> Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.
L731[14:29:26] <MGR> Zerray, very precise is what you meant ?
L732[14:29:45] <Zerray> thx MGR xD
L733[14:29:51] <MGR> No problem
L734[14:41:53] <Forecaster> much pinpoint, very precition
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L736[15:04:49] <Inari> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJi4g3NXoAAt37L.jpg:large azuki so cute
L737[15:05:30] <Skye> Inari, wut
L738[15:05:40] <Inari> ?
L739[15:07:37] <Inari> Skye: Her name is Azuki
L740[15:07:38] <Inari> and she is cute
L741[15:08:16] <Forecaster> "EVE Online player steals space station in massive theft"
L742[15:12:13] <Forecaster> apparently the leader of the victim faction reacted so poorly to this that he was banned from the game xD
L743[15:12:31] <Inari> gg
L744[15:13:28] ⇨ Joins: Fallen0223 (~Fallen@cpe-24-211-147-118.nc.res.rr.com)
L745[15:21:36] <MGR> @Forecaster lulz
L746[15:21:47] <MGR> How does one steal a space station?
L747[15:22:12] <CompanionCube> how'd you think/
L748[15:22:20] <Forecaster> by betraying your faction and turning ownership over to a different one of course
L749[15:22:26] <MGR> Ah
L750[15:22:27] <Forecaster> including everything the station contains
L751[15:22:42] <MGR> That sucks
L752[15:22:54] <MGR> I was anticipating a different kind of excitement
L753[15:23:03] <Forecaster> what?
L754[15:23:09] <MGR> That's still exciting, but not my cup of tea
L755[15:23:16] <Forecaster> like literraly picking it up and running off with it? :P
L756[15:23:24] <Forecaster> like literally picking it up and running off with it? :P
L757[15:23:53] <MGR> For some absurd reason, I pictured a spaceship with a tow cable pulling the station, and everyone on the victim team being asleep while this happened
L758[15:24:17] <Forecaster> pretty sure the game doesn't work like that
L759[15:24:30] <MGR> But if it did....
L760[15:25:15] <CompanionCube> they also skywrote lol next to the station
L761[15:25:22] <Forecaster> then the players on the station would just be brought with it
L762[15:25:51] <MGR> That is true
L763[15:28:56] <Gavle> Assuming that was planned, whoever the planner is is a genius.
L764[15:30:50] <Forecaster> probably wasn't planned from the start, as an infiltration
L765[15:31:05] <Forecaster> someone just deserted and caused some chaos
L766[15:39:29] <Gavle> That is too bad.
L767[15:46:05] <gamax92> That is too rad.
L768[15:46:24] <Forecaster> That is too plad*
L769[15:46:47] <Forecaster> was supposed to be a period but oh well
L770[15:50:07] <Inari> 'plad' sounds like a german dialect form of the colloquial word 'blöd', which means dumb/stupid/silly/dense basically
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L772[16:12:07] <Corded> * <MGR> has to face the fact that just because he fixed a bug in one place, doesn't mean that the patch magically spreads itself to all copies
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L778[17:18:54] <gamax92> suddenly internet is really good
L779[17:19:12] <gamax92> I guess people moved in upstairs
L780[17:20:20] <MGR> Is there a shorter way to store the greater of two numbers other than if number1 > number 2 then ....
L781[17:20:28] <gamax92> cause I'm getting 93% signal quality
L782[17:20:48] <gamax92> @MGR math.max
L783[17:21:02] <MGR> Ahhhhhh, thank you
L784[17:22:29] <MGR> That helped a lot, so o7
L785[17:22:44] <gamax92> math.max can take more than two numbers btw
L786[17:23:44] <MGR> Not necessary atm, but good to keep in mind
L787[17:26:43] <MGR> I also ended up using math.min, because I realized I actually wanted the lesser of two numbers
L788[17:43:04] <Inari> I mean
L789[17:43:13] <Inari> Math.min probably literally does the if() thingy :P
L790[17:45:35] <MGR> Almost certainly Inari, but I want to save lines of code
L791[17:45:41] <MGR> And make my code look neater
L792[17:45:59] <MGR> I'm in the final feature implementation and polish phase now
L793[17:46:12] <Inari> Use selene
L794[17:46:13] <Inari> ;D
L795[17:46:36] <MGR> I can't afford the time expense it would take to learn selene
L796[17:46:42] <MajGenRelativity> ~w filesystem
L797[17:46:43] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/api:filesystem
L798[17:46:49] <MajGenRelativity> Not at this point in the project
L799[17:47:44] <MGR> How would a program determine what directory it is running from?'
L800[17:48:16] <MGR> It looks like process.info, but is there any other way?
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L802[17:50:37] <MGR> filesystem.path should work...
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L804[17:52:15] <MGR> Nope
L805[17:53:01] <MGR> Ok, gotta go with process.info
L806[17:55:00] <MGR> And that just returns the file name
L807[17:55:17] <MGR> So, is there any way for a program to determine what directory it is running from?
L808[17:56:40] <MGR> Got it, shell.getWorkingDirectory()
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L810[18:02:32] <Inari> You sure it's that?
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L812[18:07:40] <MGR> Yes
L813[18:07:44] <MGR> I think
L814[18:10:41] <Inari> what do you mean with "is running from"?
L815[18:10:46] <Inari> the directroy of the lua file?
L816[18:11:29] <MGR> Yeah
L817[18:12:10] <Inari> seems to return the directroy of the shell
L818[18:12:20] <Inari> so if I'm in / and run /home/a.lua
L819[18:12:22] <Inari> It'll return /a
L820[18:12:23] <Inari> Er
L821[18:12:25] <Inari> return /
L822[18:13:08] <MGR> uh
L823[18:13:14] <MGR> That is not a good
L824[18:15:11] <MGR> Well, you're right on that
L825[18:15:26] <MGR> So, how do I figure out the directory of the lua file then?
L826[18:20:02] <MGR> I'm going to resort to a static directory in the meantime
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L828[18:59:18] <Saphire> Okay, first of all
L829[18:59:21] <Saphire> Why.
L830[19:00:25] <Saphire> @MGR why do you need that?
L831[19:00:55] <MGR> Because I want to read from a configuration file in the same directory as the program
L832[19:01:19] <Saphire> Why not use /etc?
L833[19:02:05] <Saphire> Or `~/.config/[programname]/`?
L834[19:02:33] <MGR> A. Because I like config files to be next to the program B. I don't know what that second statement is
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L836[19:07:46] <MGR> If you explain it, I may use it
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L838[19:09:26] <CompanionCube> MGR: but /etc allows all your configuration to be in one place
L839[19:09:31] <CompanionCube> plus, standards :p
L840[19:10:49] <CompanionCube> for the second one, google 'XDG base directory'
L841[19:12:35] <MGR> XDG base directory is really not helping at all with the second one
L842[19:13:09] <CompanionCube> https://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
L843[19:13:23] <CompanionCube> specifically: There is a single base directory relative to which user-specific configuration files should be written. This directory is defined by the environment variable $XDG_CONFIG_HOME. $XDG_CONFIG_HOME defines the base directory relative to which user specific configuration files should be stored. If $XDG_CONFIG_HOME is either not set or empty, a default equal to $HOME/.config should be used.
L844[19:13:37] <CompanionCube> that's the origin/purpose of the directory on Linux
L845[19:13:45] <CompanionCube> not really relevant to OC, but that wasn't the question
L846[19:15:04] <MGR> Uh
L847[19:15:20] <MGR> So, the second thing was not relevant, good to know
L848[19:15:31] <CompanionCube> well, it was a suggestion
L849[19:15:53] <MGR> Yes
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L851[19:16:19] <CompanionCube> you didn't know what the suggestion meant, so I provided what I think was the context/reasoning behind the suggestion
L852[19:17:08] <CompanionCube> The specific standard isn't relevant to OC, but the suggestion is.
L853[19:17:53] <MGR> Oh
L854[19:18:02] <MGR> I still don't know what the suggestion *means* or how it is relevant
L855[19:18:36] <MGR> The linked article doesn't define what ~/.config/[programname]/ is
L856[19:18:47] <CompanionCube> seems clear to me
L857[19:18:57] <CompanionCube> 'user-specific configuration files should be written'
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L859[19:19:10] *** ben_mkiv|afk is now known as ben_mkiv
L860[19:20:06] <MGR> ?!?!?!
L861[19:20:32] <CompanionCube> it's basically saying 'this is where user config info can/should be'
L862[19:22:02] <CompanionCube> (there's alsol
L863[19:22:31] <CompanionCube> (there's also flaws with the whole 'config files next to the program' idea but let's put that to one side)
L864[19:23:12] <MGR> I don't understand what location ~/.config/[programname]/ is referencing
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L866[19:24:14] <CompanionCube> as in, the resulting filesystem location?
L867[19:24:36] <MGR> Yes
L868[19:24:40] <MGR> What is that location?
L869[19:24:47] <CompanionCube> well, what's ~ ?
L870[19:25:11] <MGR> The answer you're not looking for is "a tilde", but outside of that, I got nothing
L871[19:25:47] <CompanionCube> never worked with a decent *nix shell, have you?
L872[19:26:14] <CompanionCube> (hell, i think OpenOS has this even.)
L873[19:26:40] <ben_mkiv> tilde refers to the users home directory
L874[19:26:59] <ben_mkiv> so if you signed on as user "MGR" ~/foobar == /home/MGR/foobar
L875[19:27:14] <ben_mkiv> if thats your home directory which is set in /etc/passwd
L876[19:28:49] <MGR> CompanionCube, my experience with Not Windows or OpenOS amounts to 30 minutes
L877[19:28:51] <MGR> So, no
L878[19:29:06] <MGR> Thank you ben
L879[19:29:39] <MGR> Finally got what I was looking for :P
L880[19:29:51] <ben_mkiv> for openos its probably that ~ just refers to /home
L881[19:30:00] <ben_mkiv> as there isnt a real user system if im not wrong
L882[19:30:11] <MGR> So, /home/config/programname
L883[19:30:41] <ben_mkiv> yea, i would just give it a try and write some file from a lua script, like ~/foobar
L884[19:30:45] <ben_mkiv> and look if it ends up in /home
L885[19:30:57] <MGR> Thank you CompanionCube and ben_mkiv for answering my question
L886[19:31:23] <MGR> Still need to know how to determine the directory of the program from within said program
L887[19:32:58] <CompanionCube> huh, OC does not do this.
L888[19:33:06] <MGR> Do what?
L889[19:33:08] <CompanionCube> surprising.
L890[19:33:51] <CompanionCube> ,GR
L891[19:34:01] <CompanionCube> MGR: the shell doesn't expand ~ to $HOME
L892[19:34:07] <MGR> Oh
L893[19:34:28] <MGR> So the second suggestion *is* not applicable?
L894[19:34:36] <CompanionCube> it is, just not literally
L895[19:34:46] <MGR> ???
L896[19:34:50] <CompanionCube> grab the HOME environment variable and use that
L897[19:35:16] <MGR> That doesn't solve my problem
L898[19:35:43] <CompanionCube> ohey, look what i found in the docs
L899[19:35:44] <CompanionCube> 'process.info([level: number]): table Returns a table containing the command and path of the specified process, and some other data. The level can optionally be provided to get parent processes. It defaults to 1, the current program. 2 is the current program's parent (the one that called process.load to start the current program) and so on.'
L900[19:36:12] <MGR> The path just returns / or whatever
L901[19:36:27] <MGR> I tried that, and it did not work
L902[19:37:00] <MGR> Can confirm again tomorrow
L903[19:39:37] <MGR> Any other ideas?
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L905[19:40:19] <CompanionCube> just use /etc?
L906[19:41:24] <ben_mkiv> yea, that would be better for program configs which arent user related but systemwide
L907[19:41:53] <CompanionCube> or $HOME/.config/programname ;)
L908[19:42:02] <MGR> That is not the preferred modus operandi
L909[19:42:24] <Saphire> Uh
L910[19:42:27] <Saphire> Why?
L911[19:43:03] <MGR> Because placing the configuration files with the program makes more sense to me
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L913[19:43:24] <Saphire> ...
L914[19:43:37] <Saphire> You must be very new to anything other that Windows
L915[19:43:53] <Saphire> hell, even Windows doesn't do that!
L916[19:44:33] <MGR> I have used OS X for 10 minutes, and Linux for 15
L917[19:44:44] <CompanionCube> OK then
L918[19:44:46] <MGR> I don't know how Windows programs do it either
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L920[19:44:57] <MGR> It just makes the most logical sense
L921[19:45:04] <Saphire> Most of the Windows programs use ~/appdata/ or something. Well, is C:\Users\[your name]\Appdata\[something I don't remember]\[program name]
L922[19:45:19] <MGR> Ok
L923[19:45:22] <Saphire> Everything in []s is not literal and might change
L924[19:45:31] <Saphire> Except for thing after appdata
L925[19:45:33] <CompanionCube> MGR: what happens if the user wants to upgrade or downgrade
L926[19:45:36] <MGR> Yes
L927[19:45:45] <CompanionCube> why should they have to copy the config file around for that
L928[19:45:49] <MGR> CompanionCube, what?
L929[19:45:51] <Saphire> ^
L930[19:46:03] <MGR> Upgrade or downgrade what?
L931[19:46:05] <Saphire> MajGenRelativity: you know, when your program gets updated
L932[19:46:10] <MGR> Yeah
L933[19:46:21] <Saphire> And if config or with program
L934[19:46:26] <CompanionCube> also, god help the users if you ship a default config file with your program
L935[19:46:26] <Saphire> *is with
L936[19:46:29] <CompanionCube> that'd be fun with updates
L937[19:46:39] <Saphire> Hehehe..
L938[19:46:44] <MGR> I don't ship any configuration files
L939[19:46:53] <MGR> The software builds them over time
L940[19:47:33] <ben_mkiv> binarys and configs are allways seperate
L941[19:47:40] <MGR> Yes
L942[19:47:43] <ben_mkiv> also theres windows registry for windows
L943[19:47:52] <ben_mkiv> where many programs store their config
L944[19:48:06] <ben_mkiv> you may know regedit?
L945[19:48:08] <CompanionCube> in fact, there'sa more general case
L946[19:48:09] <MGR> Yes
L947[19:48:26] <MGR> Oh, yeah, I recall about the registry
L948[19:48:29] <CompanionCube> if you want to run multiple copies of the program with different configs
L949[19:48:35] <MGR> *dusts off knowledge*
L950[19:48:40] <CompanionCube> why should you have to have N copies of the program
L951[19:48:59] <MGR> Running multiple copies of this software is an extremely bad idea
L952[19:49:04] <Saphire> Basically, all realizations of "config in same directory as the program" works by means of using just current directory
L953[19:49:06] <Saphire> ...
L954[19:49:14] <Saphire> OKAY, A SMALL QUESTION
L955[19:49:21] <Saphire> sorry, accident caps
L956[19:49:36] <Saphire> Why would it be a "bad idea" in any way?
L957[19:49:57] <Saphire> ... Unless you are live-patching the whole OpenOS
L958[19:50:12] <MGR> You would have multiple message listeners at the same time, and other nodes would get multiple responses
L959[19:50:38] <CompanionCube> I didn't say multiple simultaneous copies, by the way
L960[19:50:43] <MGR> This will cause unintended operations to occur
L961[19:50:52] <MGR> Oh
L962[19:51:07] <MGR> Well, you don't have to copy the config files around then
L963[19:51:10] <CompanionCube> that's a subset
L964[19:51:13] <Saphire> ... Please
L965[19:51:23] <MGR> The program automatically generates them over time
L966[19:51:27] <Saphire> Just put the freaking config in /etc
L967[19:51:37] <Saphire> ...uh
L968[19:51:40] <Saphire> Wat
L969[19:51:42] <MGR> That is not the desired solution
L970[19:51:55] <Saphire> ... WHY is it not?
L971[19:52:18] <Saphire> It's a standard fixed directory specially for configs
L972[19:52:20] <MGR> Because placing the configuration files with the program makes more sense to me
L973[19:52:39] <Temia> That's ten times as bad
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L976[19:52:42] <MGR> Yeah, but I didn't know that until now, so why should other people be expected to know that
L977[19:52:59] <Temia> ...because it's part of the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard?
L978[19:53:12] <MGR> I don't know what that is
L979[19:53:25] <MGR> And I don't think it's fair to assume most users would
L980[19:53:36] <Saphire> Uh
L981[19:53:49] <Saphire> %g FHS
L982[19:53:51] <MichiBot> Saphire: http://www.fhs.fuhsd.org/ - *Fremont High School: Home Page*: "Back to School Night is a great opportunity to meet your student's teachers and Fremont High School staff. Various parent groups will be present, so be sure you  ..."
L983[19:54:07] <CompanionCube> %g nix FHS
L984[19:54:08] <MichiBot> CompanionCube: https://nixos.org/nixpkgs/manual/ - *Nixpkgs manual*: "Nix expressions describe how to build packages from source and are collected in the nixpkgs repository. Also included in the collection are Nix expressions for ..."
L985[19:54:14] <Temia> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
L986[19:54:16] <CompanionCube> ...goddammit nixos
L987[19:54:41] <MGR> Ok
L988[19:54:55] <Temia> Also it's not our problem whether they know it, it's whether they abide by it
L989[19:54:55] * CompanionCube will give MGR the 'most users shouldn't need know this' point
L990[19:55:09] <CompanionCube> even though you're not most users
L991[19:55:18] <Temia> And shitting it up by putting configs in the same directory as the program is a good way not to abide by it.
L992[19:55:52] <MGR> Ok
L993[19:55:53] <Saphire> %g Linux FHS
L994[19:55:54] <MichiBot> Saphire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard - *Filesystem Hierarchy Standard - Wikipedia*: "The Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (FHS) defines the directory structure and directory contents in Linux distributions. It is maintained by the Linux Foundation."
L995[19:56:06] <Saphire> @MGR ^
L996[19:56:10] <Temia> That interferes with global path structures, creates needless difficulty with backing up configurations, and is poor design sense in general.
L997[19:56:14] <MGR> I saw
L998[19:56:15] <CompanionCube> MGR: OpenOS has some strong *nix influences
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L1000[19:56:29] <CompanionCube> logically, doesn't it make sense that it's filesystem resembles the *nix standard layout?
L1001[19:56:39] <MGR> Yes
L1002[19:57:36] <Saphire> @MGR: wait. Your configs are automatically generated... What do they store?
L1003[19:58:08] <MGR> They store node addresses and other information gathered over time
L1004[19:58:10] <Temia> Honestly, the worst thing about this is, as CC said, you're not most people. You're trying to define standards of conduct. Why on earth do you not know something so crucial about the platform you're working on?
L1005[19:58:40] <MGR> Because there was never a reason to know, or any idea that I needed to know this information
L1006[19:58:48] <Temia> If anything this is all the proof we needed that you're nothing but an amateur pretending to be a pillar of the community.
L1007[19:59:04] <MGR> I'm at least trying
L1008[19:59:12] <CompanionCube> Temia: someone's feeling harsh today
L1009[19:59:26] <vifino> Not unjustifiably so, IMO.
L1010[19:59:58] <Temia> I saw one half of the conversation and knew immediately who to disable my ignore strings for.
L1011[20:00:12] <Temia> This is something I've come to expect out of him.
L1012[20:00:24] <Saphire> Sick burn o..o
L1013[20:00:27] <vifino> Yup.
L1014[20:00:53] <Temia> I would've just let it slide but there was the matter of preventing misinformation to propogate through the community.
L1015[20:01:33] <MGR> If my question will not be answered, I shall take my leave
L1016[20:01:56] <CompanionCube> MGR: you could've looked at what other programs do
L1017[20:02:06] <CompanionCube> and use that as a guideline for your own
L1018[20:02:09] <MGR> I will do so
L1019[20:02:32] <MGR> I wasn't aware of programs that get their directory, so I thought I would ask
L1020[20:02:40] <MGR> Other programs *
L1021[20:03:07] <CompanionCube> also, note there's a difference between configuration and other types of data
L1022[20:03:33] <CompanionCube> Configuration's used to make a system behave/act in a certain way
L1023[20:03:40] <CompanionCube> Data is essentially input for your program's logic.
L1024[20:04:42] <MGR> I store both
L1025[20:04:43] <CompanionCube> If you don't expect your users to ever modify it manually, it is likely the latter not the former.
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L1027[20:05:03] <MGR> There are 2 files, which are split for exactly that reason
L1028[20:05:28] <Saphire> Small question
L1029[20:05:56] <Saphire> Why do you even store the nose list? Network configuration can change easily..
L1030[20:06:03] <CompanionCube> good
L1031[20:06:04] <MineRobber9000> >nose list
L1032[20:06:16] <CompanionCube> I'd advise that you store them in completely different locations
L1033[20:06:26] <CompanionCube> e.g /etc for configuration, somewhere under /var for data
L1034[20:06:35] <MGR> It's to allow for static addressing, which reduces complication for other programs
L1035[20:06:38] <CompanionCube> (or /srv, if that's your thing)
L1036[20:07:27] <MGR> That part of the network never changes
L1037[20:08:09] <MGR> CompanionCube, I will take your advice under consideration
L1038[20:08:17] <MGR> My question remains unanswered though
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L1043[20:14:41] <Saphire> Hmm
L1044[20:15:18] <Saphire> I find it kinda funny that he's asking about maybe using a fixed location, by then goes "lol no" at using /etc
L1045[20:15:20] <Saphire> Wat
L1046[20:15:40] <MGR> The location is not fixed
L1047[20:16:01] <Saphire> ... Wat?
L1048[20:16:31] <MGR> You can place my program almost anywhere you want, and the associated files will adjust accordingly
L1049[20:16:43] <MGR> That is not a fixed position
L1050[20:16:47] <Saphire> Why would anyone do that?!
L1051[20:17:02] <Saphire> You have a darn OPPM, you can just..
L1052[20:17:02] <MGR> I also never go "lol no" to a serious suggestion
L1053[20:17:24] <MGR> I don't know why people would place it wherever. It is not my job to control my users
L1054[20:17:25] <Saphire> Oh Gods and Divines and everything else, you have your own installer.
L1055[20:17:39] <MGR> I do not
L1056[20:19:16] <Saphire> ... So user needs to manually wget or pastebin updated program?
L1057[20:19:26] <MGR> I do not have my own installer, to be clear
L1058[20:19:50] <MGR> Currently, yes. In the future, no.
L1059[20:20:06] <MGR> OPPM support is planned
L1060[20:20:10] <CompanionCube> why not do it now
L1061[20:20:18] <CompanionCube> save your users the hassle
L1062[20:20:30] <MGR> Because my program is not done
L1063[20:21:12] <CompanionCube> why does your program have to be finished to have oppm support
L1064[20:21:35] <MGR> Because I release projects when they are done
L1065[20:26:52] <MGR> Unfortunately, I must suspend this conversation for the night
L1066[20:26:57] <MGR> I will return tomorrow
L1067[20:28:14] <Saphire> ... Okay then
L1068[20:28:55] <Saphire> Hmm
L1069[20:29:48] <CompanionCube> hm, I obviously wouldn't be needing this
L1070[20:29:52] <Saphire> I wonder, how problematic would it be to write a Java program that pretends to be MC/forge environment and then just mess around with OC with a top-down kind of editor?
L1071[20:30:23] <CompanionCube> %inv add cardboard physical copy of the FHS (totally not a weapon)
L1072[20:30:24] * MichiBot summons 'cardboard physical copy of the FHS (totally not a weapon)' and adds to her inventory. This seems rather fragile...
L1073[20:30:29] <Saphire> ...I guess just rewriting/reimplementing all the device logic would be easiest
L1074[20:30:42] <Saphire> Heh
L1075[20:31:17] <CompanionCube> Saphire: how would this differ from say, OCEmu?
L1076[20:31:37] <Saphire> CompanionCube: multiple computers!
L1077[20:32:07] <Saphire> And connecting thing around and etc.
L1078[20:32:50] <Saphire> Hmm, if I finally find out how to do a working texture rendering and etc, I could do that, maybe
L1079[20:33:31] <Saphire> ...how do all those CAD and other software know that user clicked exactly that or this element?
L1080[20:35:56] <Saphire> I mean, you have hundreds of elements on the screen. Screen can move. Elements can be moved. How do you get if this or that thing was clicked?
L1081[20:37:04] <Saphire> I guess just checking if the point of click is colliding with any object would be the way?
L1082[20:37:36] <Saphire> (and in 3D, a ray, but I'm talking 2D)
L1083[20:42:33] <Saphire> Guess what I'm going to do NB after... Oh, after finishing the bot >.>
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L1091[21:27:54] <Izaya> o/ dw20
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L1093[21:48:06] <Direwolf20> heyas
L1094[21:48:32] <Izaya> yay got my kernel down to 26k by removing all the included but not neccesary programs
L1095[21:49:22] <CompanionCube> so this is your true 'kernel'?
L1096[21:50:28] <Izaya> yeah that's the idea
L1097[21:50:38] <Izaya> working on removing stuff so it runs more comfortably on low memory systems
L1098[21:50:52] <Izaya> not sure how I'll... detach luash, but I'll work that out
L1099[21:51:23] <CompanionCube> inb4 PsychOS becomes a wrapper around MultICE :p
L1100[21:51:32] <Izaya> plsno
L1101[21:56:53] <Izaya> hm :|
L1102[21:57:10] <Izaya> I don't really want to convert my libraries to use require
L1103[21:57:20] <Izaya> because that breaks bundling them in the kernel
L1104[21:58:53] <Izaya> muahaha, tools shave like 6k off of it
L1105[22:00:14] <CompanionCube> Izaya: make a no-op kernel require?
L1106[22:00:58] <Izaya> but if I package the libs in the kernel they'll return and break booting
L1107[22:02:13] <CompanionCube> Welp. No way out except build system magic.
L1108[22:02:38] <Izaya> I guess so...
L1109[22:03:48] <Izaya> hm, wrap it as a function, then run the function?
L1110[22:06:01] * Izaya is a terrible person
L1111[22:06:41] <Izaya> https://i.imgur.com/KbYIre2.png
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L1115[22:18:04] <Izaya> hm
L1116[22:18:27] <Izaya> I don't want to remove a lot of this because it's the base API
L1117[22:19:49] <CompanionCube> Izaya: this is nicely-worded but savage
L1118[22:21:53] <CompanionCube> https://image.slidesharecdn.com/nodesummit2017-170726223246/95/platform-as-reflection-of-values-joyent-nodejs-and-beyond-13-638.jpg?cb=1501109467 first
L1119[22:22:31] <CompanionCube> Later on: https://image.slidesharecdn.com/nodesummit2017-170726223246/95/platform-as-reflection-of-values-joyent-nodejs-and-beyond-29-638.jpg?cb=1501109467
L1120[22:23:38] * Izaya gets the fire extinguisher
L1121[22:25:32] <CompanionCube> Complete slides: http://www.nodesummit.com/videos/?the-video-node2017=45
L1122[22:25:39] <CompanionCube> maybe
L1123[22:49:25] <Direwolf20> can i install the latest openOS without updating the mod?
L1124[22:49:35] <Direwolf20> or do i have to grab the latest mod version off github to get the latest openOS
L1125[22:49:53] <Izaya> If you download the latest OpenOS onto a disk it should work
L1126[22:50:02] <Direwolf20> i was thinking an install with an internet card
L1127[22:50:20] <Izaya> Have fun manually downloading the files I guess? :P
L1128[22:50:44] <Direwolf20> :D
L1129[22:51:26] <Izaya> Could probably download it on a real machine, do tree, prepend each line with the raw GH repo part, then feed that to ingame wget
L1130[22:52:05] <Direwolf20> yea nah thats ok
L1131[22:52:17] <Direwolf20> not even sure if what i'm seeing is a bug or not
L1132[22:52:33] <Direwolf20> will play with it more under the assumption that i'm doing something dumb first :D
L1133[22:56:24] <Saphire> Oh hey o.o
L1134[22:58:14] <Saphire> Direwolf20: hmm, so what are you seeing?
L1135[22:59:01] <Direwolf20> ah found the problem!
L1136[22:59:07] <Direwolf20> i don't even think its OC's fault haha
L1137[22:59:12] <Direwolf20> just my misunderstanding something
L1138[22:59:29] <payonel> Direwolf20: you COULD extract the openos folder
L1139[22:59:40] <Direwolf20> nah its good
L1140[22:59:52] <Saphire> Direwolf20: care to share the problem though?
L1141[22:59:59] <Direwolf20> it wasn't even on OC's end
L1142[23:00:05] <Direwolf20> i'm talking to OC with websockets and it was a derp on my websocket side
L1143[23:00:47] <payonel> unzip ../current-oc.jar; rm -r assets/opencomputers/loot; cp -rv ../path/to/latest-oc/assets/opencomputers/loot assets/opencomputers/; zip ../patched.jar -r *
L1144[23:00:48] <Saphire> Oh, huh
L1145[23:00:48] <payonel> something like that
L1146[23:01:13] <Direwolf20> but payonel i'm glad your here :)
L1147[23:17:54] <AmandaC> %tell Inari you could have warned me about the 20 fire stone explosion to the feels D: now I'm crying while half asleep and feeling super sick still
L1148[23:17:54] <MichiBot> AmandaC: Inari will be notified of this message when next seen.
L1149[23:23:16] <AmandaC> One day I'll learn to get my bed cleared before turning off the only source of light to sleep, tonight is not that day. Anyway, night nerds
L1150[23:23:23] <Izaya> o/
L1151[23:24:25] <Izaya> so this is a thing now: https://lain.shadowkat.net/~izaya/ocdoc/PsychOS/build/
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