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L1[00:23:45] <gamax92> ._.
L2[00:24:05] <gamax92> You have a 32bit client available but don't offer it on your website
L3[00:25:19] <gamax92> oh well, I got the 64bit one to run though user qemu
L4[00:27:01] <Tazz> gamax92: naybe cause x86 is practically dead
L5[00:27:30] <gamax92> See I understand that, but ... you have a thing why not list it on your site
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L7[00:29:39] <gamax92> the client itself also doesn't list USB as a connection method but you can tell it to connect over USB and it'll work
L8[00:30:05] <Tazz> gamax92: bad UX
L9[00:30:14] <Tazz> someone should call my office and get us to help :D
L10[00:30:21] <Tazz> we have a dedicated UX team :3
L11[00:32:13] <gamax92> Tazz: how is your weird fancy custom Lua jit whatever
L12[00:32:23] <Tazz> gamax92: doin good actually
L13[00:32:32] <Tazz> I got the GC all rewritten
L14[00:32:36] <Tazz> its fancy now too!
L15[00:33:45] <gamax92> new winpty has some weird issue with file redirects :/
L16[00:34:47] <gamax92> pacman has been checking free space for the past 10 minutes
L17[00:38:27] <Tazz> lol
L18[00:38:35] <Tazz> maybe there is an issue with your blocks
L19[00:38:36] <Tazz> >
L20[00:38:37] <Tazz> ?
L21[00:38:57] <gamax92> I think it's just that it's a lot of updates, ~190 and 12GB total
L22[00:39:25] <gamax92> on an HDD ... I'll do this tomorrow.
L23[00:39:45] <gamax92> I see the issue though, there's lua.exe, and then there's a lua bash script that calls lua through winpty
L24[00:39:50] <gamax92> I murdered the bash script
L25[00:40:28] <gamax92> and, for everything in the path, only one of them is a bash script for wrapping lua in winpty, no idea why but I need working redirects
L26[01:26:33] <gamax92> Ah okay, the interpreter needs winpty
L27[01:27:09] <gamax92> I modified the bash script to only wrap through winpty when necessary
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L30[02:25:21] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
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L33[02:29:21] <Izaya> ~w debug
L34[02:29:21] <ocdoc> http://www.lua.org/manual/5.2/manual.html#pdf-debug
L35[02:29:33] <Izaya> do we have debug.setupvalue?
L36[02:30:51] <fingercomp> in OC?
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L40[02:33:06] <Izaya> yeah
L41[02:33:48] <fingercomp> then no
L42[02:33:52] <Izaya> RIP
L43[02:33:57] <Izaya> gonna have to sandbox somehow else
L44[02:34:14] <Izaya> eh I can set _ENV then coroutine.create
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L51[03:27:35] <Izaya> ~w component
L52[03:27:35] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component
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L54[03:47:25] <Patchi> how do i save a program from a robot
L55[03:53:08] <Izaya> from a robot?
L56[03:53:20] <Patchi> yea, oc robot
L57[03:53:29] <Izaya> so you wrote it on there and now you want it out of there?
L58[03:53:30] <Patchi> its been ages since i played .^.
L59[03:53:36] <Patchi> yup
L60[03:53:42] <Patchi> want to relocate the robot
L61[03:53:50] <Izaya> network card? internet card?
L62[03:53:51] <Patchi> unsure if i labeled it
L63[03:53:52] <Izaya> uh
L64[03:54:01] <Izaya> you should be able to pick it up
L65[03:54:33] <Izaya> like, the whole robot
L66[03:54:54] <Patchi> so, unlike computer craft, it will keep its data?
L67[03:55:02] <Izaya> I think so
L68[03:55:14] <Izaya> I don't use them much
L69[03:55:21] <Izaya> I'd say back up first
L70[04:08:59] <Patchi> how do i copy a program to another drive again? 0,.,0
L71[04:14:39] <Izaya> cp file /mnt/dri/file
L72[04:15:50] <Patchi> ok, so how do i know what the drives called in openos
L73[04:15:55] <Patchi> i feel so stupid XD
L74[04:16:01] <Izaya> try df or mount
L75[04:16:16] <Patchi> for references its a floppy in a robot
L76[04:16:32] <Izaya> check the item ID in the robot filesystem
L77[04:19:19] <Patchi> ok
L78[04:19:20] <Patchi> cool
L79[04:19:27] <Patchi> thanks izaya! that worked :D
L80[04:19:34] <Izaya> ~magic~
L81[04:20:04] <Patchi> with my level of oc knowledge that was forgotten? pretty much
L82[04:22:37] <Izaya> ~w next
L83[04:22:37] <ocdoc> http://www.lua.org/manual/5.2/manual.html#pdf-next
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L85[04:34:47] <Inari> boop
L86[04:37:08] <Izaya> o/
L87[05:06:32] <Izaya> muahahahaha
L88[05:07:45] <Izaya> I have 1k piece of code that implements a scheduler and an event system
L89[05:08:31] <Izaya> 1123 bytes, specifically
L90[05:11:39] <Izaya> I swear half of my code is 'end' >.>
L91[05:14:33] <Inari> Seems easy enough to calculate
L92[05:14:36] <Inari> then you won't hav eto swear
L93[05:14:37] <Inari> ;)
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L95[05:27:06] <greaser|q> only way for half your code to be end is for a bit less than half to be do
L96[05:27:13] <greaser|q> if requires then
L97[05:27:23] <greaser|q> do do do do do end end end end end
L98[05:30:27] <Izaya> welp
L99[05:30:51] <Izaya> new kernel does NOT like actually running the MultICE userspace
L100[05:32:17] <Izaya> however, it can cope with running under ocemu, so that's good
L101[05:34:19] <Izaya> guess now I need to rewrite all the drivers
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L107[06:28:33] <anastarawneh> .
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L112[06:51:53] <Dustpuppy> hi
L113[06:58:32] <Izaya> https://i.imgur.com/KtFeeFW.png
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L115[07:01:40] <Izaya> we have event queues now
L116[07:02:33] <Izaya> now I guess I need to write the keyboard driver
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L118[07:08:49] ⇨ Joins: AnotherUser (webchat@159.red-88-14-201.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
L119[07:12:23] <AnotherUser> Hi, I come back to use OC, and I have noticed great changes in openOS. Is there anyone who can me briefly explain what are the new "devfs" stuff in the OS?
L120[07:13:57] <Izaya> It maps devices to files in the filesystem
L121[07:14:10] <Izaya> cat /dev/eeprom
L122[07:16:17] <AnotherUser> can it manage to map any device, also the OC Plugins devices?
L123[07:16:45] <Izaya> possibly?
L124[07:16:49] <Izaya> not sure about the internals
L125[07:16:56] <Izaya> I don't use OpenOS most of the timed
L126[07:19:07] <AnotherUser> Thanks. I was trying to make a SO that has linux perms built-in from the base, and i was taking a look to how openOS is implemented
L127[07:19:35] * Izaya is currently working on a multitasking kernel
L128[07:19:51] <AnotherUser> What SO do you use in OC? Maybe there is one that have achive that
L129[07:20:07] <Izaya> I use one I wrote and it does not have any form of security
L130[07:20:18] <Izaya> At present it doesn't have much of anything
L131[07:22:23] <Vexatos> It has files
L132[07:22:39] <Izaya> OS files or user files? :P
L133[07:22:47] <Vexatos> yes
L134[07:22:50] <Izaya> because currently it doesn't have a filesystem API
L135[07:22:56] <Izaya> but it does indeed have an init.lua
L136[07:26:08] ⇨ Joins: Turtle (~SentientT@ip5657cbb2.direct-adsl.nl)
L137[07:40:19] <Izaya> ~w signals
L138[07:40:19] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component:signals
L139[07:44:28] <Izaya> \o/ got keyboard input works now
L140[07:44:53] <Izaya> https://i.imgur.com/KYdSRZx.png
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L145[08:28:30] <Izaya> https://i.imgur.com/oF0H3v5.png
L146[08:41:30] ⇦ Parts: AnotherUser (webchat@159.red-88-14-201.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) ())
L147[09:08:04] <Izaya> http://pb.i0i0.me/p/raw/CdPIxUyq
L148[09:10:11] <Izaya> ^ simple multitasking kernel theoretically supporting multiple interactive sessions, some vague application sandboxing etc
L149[09:12:01] <Dustpuppy> i have a timer with timer = event.timer(0,callback). in the callback i try to revoke it at the end with the same command again, but it didn't work
L150[09:16:21] <Izaya> uh, don't think the callback will have access to the timer ID
L151[09:17:22] <Dustpuppy> find the problem. had to take the event.cancel out at the beginning of the callback. was a once timer. so was allready dead when envoking the callback
L152[09:25:55] <Izaya> https://i.imgur.com/9oTuGch.png
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L154[09:53:43] <Dustpuppy> someone an idea? the draw function will be called once. at the end the timer starts, also once. at the end of the callback i invoke the timer agein. the fucking shit now runs in a loop. if i enable the 3 line for timer canceling it will run 2 times and then stops.
L155[09:53:45] <Dustpuppy> https://pastebin.com/7H2H5nAW
L156[09:54:59] <Dustpuppy> without the cancel i can't type in anything, because the loop runs and runs, giving me prompt after prompt
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L162[10:08:09] <S3> sp
L163[10:08:10] <S3> so*
L164[10:08:21] <S3> crunchyroll is currently doing a multi day anime marathon live on twitch
L165[10:08:29] <S3> twitch is suddenly suffering from bandwidth issues
L166[10:08:39] <S3> #howtodoslegally
L167[10:12:57] <S3> 15,000 watchers atm
L168[10:13:06] <S3> watching a 1080p streamed video
L169[10:39:01] <AmandaC> 15,000 doesn't sound like that many. I'm pretty sure Google I/O's keynote hit at least 30,000. Granted, that's on YouTube not Twitch
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L172[10:50:11] <Dustpuppy> someone an idea, why he did the loop allways only 3 times and then stops? https://pastebin.com/6sZUcP4F
L173[10:54:21] <Dustpuppy> when he hangs at the third time and i press ctrl-c i got an error http://i.imgur.com/RWQk4fw.png
L174[10:55:07] <AmandaC> Dustpuppy: there's no loop there?
L175[10:55:16] <Dustpuppy> ok, this error comes from an endless loop in my main program
L176[10:55:37] <Temia> The cause might be in a separate file, seeing as how the line number in windowmanager.lua is far beyond what's even available in the code snippet.
L177[10:55:46] <Dustpuppy> it still did not explain, why he calls the callback only 3 times
L178[10:55:49] <Temia> Or wait, just saw the pastebin title.
L179[10:55:52] <Temia> timer.lua. <.<a
L180[10:56:53] <Dustpuppy> not once, not different time, allways 3 times and the he stops
L181[11:03:37] <Dustpuppy> same, if i make the window movable and/or redraw it from time to time. 3 times and game over, shell dead. memory monitor shows no problems, all other programs and windows working. just the terminal stops
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L183[11:04:28] <Dustpuppy> closing it and start it again, another 3 times
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L185[11:13:44] <Inari> Your indentation seems odd ;)
L186[11:15:19] <Inari> Dustpuppy: But yeah... I don't get what you mean?.?
L187[11:15:38] <Inari> where do yuo set up the callback
L188[11:16:58] <Dustpuppy> https://pastebin.com/6sZUcP4F
L189[11:17:01] <Dustpuppy> line 66
L190[11:17:20] <Dustpuppy> i also tried with the uncomment line. same result
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L192[11:21:42] <Inari> Dunno, maybe ok isn't true?
L193[11:21:47] <Inari> is drawTerminal still called?
L194[11:22:12] <Dustpuppy> the draw function is only called once and then if window is moved or lowered/raised. but i cover this with sefl.firstcall.
L195[11:25:55] <Dustpuppy> https://youtu.be/F7gKgJ4t6QI
L196[11:25:55] <MichiBot> fuck | length: 52s | Likes: 0 Dislikes: 0 View: 1 | by Stephan Kempa | Published On 29/7/2017
L197[11:26:40] <Dustpuppy> allways 3. time. if i move the window, or leav it. allways 3 times i can input a command, not more, not less
L198[11:31:56] <Inari> http://imgur.com/gallery/vrfWg ewwww
L199[11:32:14] <Inari> Dustpuppy: Well, do debugging, or provide the whole thing so someone can properly help :P
L200[11:32:45] ⇨ Joins: Nachtara (~Nachiebre@173-22-110-5.client.mchsi.com)
L201[11:37:27] <Inari> http://imgur.com/gallery/CmTVv thats pretty cute
L202[11:38:13] <Dustpuppy> the whole stuff -> http://www.carr-ireland.com/mc/all.zip
L203[11:38:29] <Dustpuppy> no, i've no github setup at the moment
L204[11:40:36] <Dustpuppy> problem is in guiElemets.lua between line 160 and 226
L205[11:41:11] <Dustpuppy> start is with windowmanager.lua
L206[11:41:41] <Dustpuppy> so...now help ;-)
L207[11:42:02] <Inari> To be fair I said "someone" :P But sure... so how do you know it doesn't loop?
L208[11:43:20] <gamax92> I LIVE
L209[11:43:35] <gamax92> hi
L210[11:43:42] <Dustpuppy> because it loops 3 times ok, but after the 3. loop it stops and the shell hangs. and only the shell. closing the window and start it again, will give it for another 3 loops
L211[11:43:46] <AmandaC> hi gamax92
L212[11:44:10] <Inari> 3 loops of what
L213[11:44:16] <Skye> Dustpuppy, you should use github
L214[11:44:50] <Inari> Is that why when I try to drag a window it seems to blank 3 charater?
L215[11:45:29] <Inari> Also you probably should make having a modem optional
L216[11:45:55] <Dustpuppy> that's because, i don't redraw proper at the moment, because want the problem first solved
L217[11:46:41] <Skye> Inari, what's that gif it's clever. :P
L218[11:46:59] <Inari> Hm?
L219[11:47:05] <Skye> Inari, the kinder egg one
L220[11:47:12] <Inari> What do youmena "whats it"
L221[11:47:17] <Skye> Dustpuppy, do what early versions of windows and macos do
L222[11:47:36] <Skye> Inari, I dunno, I don't really understand what happens and who what etc
L223[11:47:39] <Inari> Dustpuppy: You mean it hangs after running 3 commands?
L224[11:47:54] <Skye> Dustpuppy, make moving only move the outline
L225[11:47:55] <Dustpuppy> yes
L226[11:49:37] <Dustpuppy> if i move the whole frame, it's too slow, because gpu.get and gpu.set
L227[11:51:03] <Skye> how fast is drawing the outline only?
L228[11:51:42] <Dustpuppy> too slow. and as bigger the window, as slower
L229[11:52:10] <AmandaC> Why are you using gpu.get? You should be responsible for drawing everything so you can just dump the new state to the GPU easily.
L230[11:52:42] <Dustpuppy> and the backgound? i have more then 1 window
L231[11:52:52] <AmandaC> reverse-Z-order draw the windows
L232[11:53:08] <Skye> Dustpuppy, so drawing even a border is slow? O_o
L233[11:53:10] <AmandaC> if you want to be fancy, do culling so only the visible parts
L234[11:53:12] <Skye> something's not right there
L235[11:53:17] <Dustpuppy> if i just clear the whole screen and draw all windows new, it's horror
L236[11:53:29] <Skye> ~w component:gpu
L237[11:53:29] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component:gpu
L238[11:54:13] <Skye> hmm
L239[11:54:27] <Skye> it's the cleaning up after drawing something that's time consuming
L240[11:54:49] <Skye> as in
L241[11:54:58] <Skye> it's really easy to draw a hollow square
L242[11:55:20] <Skye> it's really hard to get what used to be there, then put it back afterwards
L243[11:55:32] <Skye> Dustpuppy, do you double buffer?
L244[11:56:19] <Skye> it shouldn't be too expensive... I hope, might need to check that
L245[11:56:32] <Dustpuppy> no. have tried, but buffering a full screen window on a tier3 screen needs that much memory, that it crashes
L246[11:56:47] <Skye> how did you try to buffer it?
L247[11:56:52] <Skye> like...
L248[11:57:24] <Skye> buffer[x][y] = {character = "x" color = 0xFFFFFF}
L249[11:57:34] <Dustpuppy> yes
L250[11:57:41] <Skye> I see
L251[11:57:43] <Skye> hm
L252[11:58:25] <Skye> I wonder if metatables could help
L253[11:59:15] <Dustpuppy> foreground and background color each 4 bytes, 1 byte for character, = 5 x160x50 = 40.000 bytes
L254[11:59:43] <Dustpuppy> oh no...each 3 bytes
L255[12:00:39] <Dustpuppy> 24.000 bytes plus table offset. still 2mb just for buffering a fullscreen window
L256[12:00:41] <gamax92> Dustpuppy: except you're working in lua
L257[12:01:04] <gamax92> double precision numbers are 8 bytes.
L258[12:02:06] <Inari> ~oc timer
L259[12:02:06] <ocdoc> Predicted http://www.lua.org/manual/5.2/manual.html#pdf-os.time
L260[12:02:08] <gamax92> tables in tables also costs you a good amount
L261[12:02:10] <Dustpuppy> i've made a gui years ago for computercraft. it was fucking fast. but i had grafics i could use. this character shit is hard to handel
L262[12:02:24] <Skye> Dustpuppy, computercraft has graphics?
L263[12:02:26] <Skye> since when
L264[12:02:42] <gamax92> gui's on computercraft was also prone to using up a ton of internet
L265[12:02:45] <Inari> Dustpuppy: So don't use that many bytes :)(
L266[12:02:45] <Dustpuppy> it has, as i remember
L267[12:02:50] <Inari> 4 bit foreground
L268[12:02:51] <Inari> 4bit bg
L269[12:02:53] <Inari> 8 bit chars
L270[12:02:55] <Inari> 1 byte per char
L271[12:03:08] <Inari> Well 4 byte I guess
L272[12:03:21] <Inari> But one number :P
L273[12:03:37] <gamax92> do not assume that characters are 8 bits
L274[12:03:39] <Inari> ~oc event
L275[12:03:40] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/api:event
L276[12:03:41] <AmandaC> doubles loose precision
L277[12:03:47] <Inari> 16 bits then
L278[12:03:48] <Inari> Same thing
L279[12:03:51] <Dustpuppy> how can u use 4 bit for color? 0xFFFFF is still 3 byte as i know
L280[12:04:07] <Inari> By using bitops
L281[12:04:25] <gamax92> also color is not 4 bit
L282[12:04:32] <Inari> It is for most uses
L283[12:04:45] <Inari> You can have it be...
L284[12:04:50] <Inari> it
L285[12:04:51] <Inari> 8 bit
L286[12:05:04] <Skye> Dustpuppy, IIRC it was the same as OC. OC just has more characters. I know modern CC has teletext chars too...
L287[12:05:07] <Inari> Thats 256 usable colours at any given time
L288[12:05:45] <gamax92> you could probably pack an entire screen into a number though, 52 bit integer range, so 8 bit (fg), 8 bit (bg), 16bit (char), 32bits in total
L289[12:06:26] <gamax92> and avoid buffer[x][y] but instead use buffer[y*width+x]
L290[12:06:42] <Skye> gamax92, in Unicode, characters could be up to 32-bits.
L291[12:06:46] <Inari> whats the point of event.timer(0, something)? Just to not directly call it and instead "schedule" it?
L292[12:06:54] <gamax92> in OC, unicode is only supported up to 16 bits
L293[12:07:01] <Skye> aw.
L294[12:07:26] <Inari> But yeah I wish OC finally ogt better GPUs
L295[12:07:44] <Skye> It would be neat if you could get more than one character at a game from a GPU
L296[12:08:03] <Dustpuppy> Inari: a dirct call will block the program, until it's finished
L297[12:08:57] <Dustpuppy> it would be neat, if the gpu would be double sized. then u could just gpu.copy parts of the screen outside viewport and back
L298[12:08:58] <Inari> I don't even see why its being called 3 times
L299[12:09:10] <Inari> Like 2 times would make sense
L300[12:09:11] <Inari> :P
L301[12:09:58] <Skye> Dustpuppy, say... theoretically... would it be good to have a program you can upload to the GPU that drew on it for you
L302[12:11:00] <Inari> Skye: The discussion has been had
L303[12:11:04] <Dustpuppy> theoretically it would be cool to have a gpl grafic card in oc, but you can't get everything you want
L304[12:12:15] <gamax92> let see ... with my scheme you can probably get an entire screen buffer in 128KiB?
L305[12:12:21] <Skye> my main hurdle with shaders is that to actually be useful they need to run on the client so they don't need to be rate limited but syncronisation is hell.
L306[12:12:55] <Skye> gamax92, how expensive are metatables? as in... the actual data was stored in an array of numbers, but metatables are used to make it look like a normal table?
L307[12:13:16] <Dustpuppy> Inari: you could see in the input field handling, why i use a timer event. if you type in something in an input field and click on another window, or element, the input will be fully stopped
L308[12:13:26] <gamax92> ehh, not sure
L309[12:14:28] <Inari> Yes, I was just asking what the purpose was :P
L310[12:14:54] <Inari> Anyway
L311[12:15:00] <Inari> Why do you expect it to loop more than 2 times
L312[12:15:12] <Skye> I wonder... to optimise a buffer
L313[12:15:24] <Skye> there could be two ways to flush it
L314[12:15:40] <Skye> 1. put everything onto the screen from scratch
L315[12:15:51] <Dustpuppy> why not? it's a shell in a window. boring if it allways stop after 2 input and you have to restart a new terminal window
L316[12:15:54] <Skye> slow but it will be needed when you first use it and if something glitches.
L317[12:16:07] <Inari> I mean
L318[12:16:11] <Inari> why do you expect your code to run more often
L319[12:16:15] <Skye> 2. only draw the changes
L320[12:16:50] <gamax92> well it has to be only draw the changes or it'll be slow :P
L321[12:17:02] <gamax92> and also not power efficient
L322[12:17:20] <Dustpuppy> because after every walk over the callback, it will come back there, if the window still is the top one
L323[12:18:54] <gamax92> Skye: if I had metatables (I'm assuming you'd want something like buffer[y][x]), you'd have a separate dummy table that provides a window'd view on the buffer, and the buffer table would simply set the window and then return that table
L324[12:19:17] <Inari> Dustpuppy: What calls it again?
L325[12:19:53] <Dustpuppy> the timer
L326[12:19:54] <Skye> gamax92, I guess... I also think metatables would allow one to record what changed so only that can be drawn
L327[12:20:26] <gamax92> okay make it 33bits, 1 bit to signify what's changed
L328[12:20:36] <Dustpuppy> i will try it with a normal while loop and catch then inside the loop, if window is changed
L329[12:23:45] <Inari> Hmm well I fixed one thing, but still trying to figure out why it won't run more than 3 times now :P
L330[12:24:35] <Inari> What I changed: terminalTimer = event.timer(0, function() terminalCallback(win, self) end)
L331[12:28:05] ⇦ Quits: smoke_fumus (~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L332[12:31:21] <Inari> Dustpuppy: I kind of fixed it
L333[12:31:24] <Inari> Though it caused another bug
L334[12:31:24] <Inari> xD
L335[12:31:45] <Dustpuppy> ok, tell me
L336[12:32:10] <Inari> Basically you do what I did there
L337[12:32:18] <Inari> and you also comment out the event.cancel(terminalTimer)
L338[12:34:43] <Dustpuppy> if i comment this out and make the changes to terminalTimer = event.timer(0, function() terminalCallback(win, self) end), then it will loop until memory runs out
L339[12:35:12] <Inari> Well it doesn't seem to! :p
L340[12:35:29] <Inari> Or maybe
L341[12:36:08] <Dustpuppy> it will, because it will set a new timer at the end of the callback and then the next one and the next one and.....
L342[12:36:57] <Inari> I thougth thats the point? :P
L343[12:37:16] <Inari> Thouhg I don't quite see why it keeps being called despite the timer thing being a single-shot one
L344[12:37:43] <Dustpuppy> exacly. a one shot timer is called endless
L345[12:37:49] <Dustpuppy> why?
L346[12:38:14] <Inari> No, a oneshot timer should only be called once
L347[12:38:18] <Inari> Thats why its oneshot
L348[12:39:25] <Inari> Anyway
L349[12:39:30] <Inari> When you do cancel the timer
L350[12:39:39] <Inari> It probably goes like
L351[12:40:07] ⇨ Joins: axciom (webchat@222.127.255.26)
L352[12:40:11] <Inari> timer is stored as id 27. it sees the deadline is there, so it puts the callback to be called, and adds 27 to the list of ids to remove
L353[12:40:22] <Inari> it then calls all the callbacks that need ot be called
L354[12:40:36] <Inari> in your callback you cancel the timer id 27, removing it from the handler list, then you set a new timer
L355[12:40:40] <Inari> the new timer again gets the id 27
L356[12:40:49] <Inari> after calling all the callbacks it removes all the ids to be removed, 27 included
L357[12:40:58] <Inari> So your just newly set timer goes out the wnidow
L358[12:41:09] <Inari> Might be something to poke payonel about
L359[12:41:15] <Dustpuppy> if you have another idea to make a shell element, it's also ok. the draw function will be allways called, if the window is drawn on the screen.
L360[12:41:50] <Dustpuppy> so, if it will be opened, raised, lowered or moved
L361[12:42:38] <Inari> I also dont' see why it seems to be calling the timer endlessly even when no new timer has been set
L362[12:42:57] <axciom> Hey guys, is there a way to determine if a message has been sent from a relay?
L363[12:45:30] <Dustpuppy> it also is not nessesary to have a terminal window, but it would be nice
L364[12:50:12] <Inari> bluescreening the OS while adding debug lots to evetn \o/
L365[12:52:46] <Inari> payonel: But yeah, this stuff is weird :D
L366[12:53:01] <Inari> It seems to not get around to the removal code or so o.o
L367[12:53:14] <Inari> Which should only happen if it errors while calling the timer?
L368[12:53:36] <Inari> But even trying to stick a pcall around event's call method doesn't seem to yield aynthing
L369[12:57:04] <Inari> "boot/01_process.lua:36: bad argument #1 to 'kernel_create' (function expected, got nil)" not sure if thats in any way related
L370[12:57:18] <Dustpuppy> i've also put after each line a gpu.set to see values of variables. runs 3 times the loop with everything i expacted to get and then simply stops
L371[12:58:29] <Inari> Also why does this say theres a tmp folder when there isn;t :<
L372[12:59:04] <Dustpuppy> what? who? where?
L373[12:59:17] <Inari> when mkdir tmp in / it says folder already exists :P
L374[12:59:24] <Inari> But I can't see any such folder in the actaul files
L375[13:00:06] <Dustpuppy> i see a /tmp
L376[13:00:22] <Inari> Well I don't :P
L377[13:00:26] <Inari> what does event.log in it say
L378[13:01:46] <Dustpuppy> no event.log file
L379[13:01:58] <Inari> Oh well
L380[13:02:04] <Inari> lets wait for the master of openos :P
L381[13:06:00] <Dustpuppy> yes, that's a good idea
L382[13:06:22] <Dustpuppy> do you have any other ideas, what's missing in the gui?
L383[13:09:13] <Dustpuppy> did i said, that this is only a lib to give people a gui for theyr programs?
L384[13:45:41] ⇦ Quits: dequbed (~me@stew.paranoidlabs.org) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L385[13:50:32] ⇦ Quits: techno156 (~techno156@137.154.29.33) (Quit: Leaving)
L386[14:26:24] <AmandaC> %choose br or lr
L387[14:26:25] <MichiBot> AmandaC: br
L388[14:26:28] <AmandaC> hrm
L389[14:39:50] ⇨ Joins: WatchtowerOrator (~Watchtowe@83.223.21.91)
L390[14:39:50] <WatchtowerOrator> Time for a new episode from Forecaster! You're welcome!
L391[14:39:50] <WatchtowerOrator> https://youtu.be/W657RunpQzU - RailcraftLP [Episode 28] - Looking for Board
L392[14:39:50] <WatchtowerOrator> Tags on this video: industrialcraft2,programming,opencomputers,robot,E.V.E,code,lua,farms,forestry
L393[14:39:51] <MichiBot> RailcraftLP- [Episode 28] - Looking for Board | length: 36m 36s | Likes: 0 Dislikes: 0 Views: 0 | by Forecaster | Published On 29/7/2017
L394[14:40:28] <Inari> E.V.E.?
L395[14:41:28] ⇦ Quits: WatchtowerOrator (~Watchtowe@83.223.21.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
L396[14:42:47] <Skye> reminds me... I need to make a youtube video
L397[14:42:56] <Skye> but it's really tedious
L398[14:43:01] <Skye> however I found a better microphone
L399[14:44:49] <AmandaC> Forecaster's looking for board in all the wrong places, looking for board
L400[14:45:27] <Skye> I kinda ended my last video on a BSOD
L401[14:45:55] <AmandaC> Skye: so you should start the next one with a windows bootup/login
L402[14:46:05] <Skye> AmandaC, exactly!
L403[14:46:20] <AmandaC> make sure to click the eye in the password bar to show us your passwords, too
L404[14:46:39] <Skye> what would be better? 95, 98SE, XP, NT4, NT3.51, 10
L405[14:46:57] <Inari> ME
L406[14:47:13] <Skye> don't have that
L407[14:47:20] <AmandaC> They all have different-looking BSOD screens, so whichever you used
L408[14:47:23] <Skye> also I have windows 3 and windows 3.11 for work groups
L409[14:47:33] <Skye> AmandaC, well what would be more comedic
L410[14:48:14] <AmandaC> If you're after comedic, make it be the mac update screen, then it boots into a GNOME Shell desktop
L411[14:48:29] <AmandaC> Piss off all the fanboys at once!
L412[14:48:47] <Skye> I could have a hackintosh text mode boot screen
L413[14:48:57] <Skye> with the windows XP startup sound! :D
L414[14:49:06] <Skye> ooo I got it
L415[14:51:01] <Skye> start with "previously" in a deep voice, cut to the BSOD, cut to black, cut to PC boot screen / BIOS with an old maciontosh startup sound, cut to Mac OS X textmode boot, cut to NT3.51 login, cut to mate desktop (with XP startup sound).
L416[14:52:26] <Inari> Skye and a deep voice? :P
L417[14:52:45] <Skye> I can do it
L418[14:52:51] <Skye> but ow my throat kills me
L419[14:52:56] <Skye> and I also feel sad
L420[14:53:00] <Skye> but it's worth it for a joke
L421[15:46:03] ⇦ Quits: Dustpuppy (~kvirc@213.233.149.17) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
L422[15:50:18] ⇦ Quits: Sava (~Sava@cable-178-148-185-58.dynamic.sbb.rs) (Ping timeout: 201 seconds)
L423[15:53:58] <AmandaC> %choose stay or abandon
L424[15:53:59] <MichiBot> AmandaC: abandon
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L430[16:41:48] ⇦ Quits: SquidDev (~SquidDev@host86-153-249-65.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
L431[16:55:49] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@p5B3C9D9D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: I guess I have to go now. Bye ✔)
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L433[17:07:33] ⇨ Joins: Dustpuppy (~kvirc@213.233.149.17)
L434[17:08:01] <Dustpuppy> who can explain me, how i setup my git hub?
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L436[17:17:55] ⇨ Joins: BobbyTables2012 (~EiraIRC@47-51-43-210.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com)
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L438[17:21:59] <S3> %choose foo or bar
L439[17:22:00] <MichiBot> S3: bar
L440[17:22:38] <S3> %choose AmandaC chooses to stay or AmandaC chooses to abandon
L441[17:22:40] <MichiBot> S3: AmandaC chooses to stay
L442[17:22:43] <S3> HA
L443[17:22:55] * AmandaC meows at S3
L444[17:24:22] <S3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paG1-lPtIXA
L445[17:24:22] <MichiBot> The Machine - Bert Kreischer: THE MACHINE | length: 13m 52s | Likes: 23,869 Dislikes: 734 Views: 2,241,703 | by Bert Kreischer | Published On 28/12/2016
L446[17:31:06] ⇨ Joins: xPucTu4 (~yahoo@xPucTu4.Minecraft-BG.Net)
L447[17:34:55] <1MachoK> Any public server with OC that you guys know?
L448[17:35:25] <BobbyTables2012> I'm on one for revolution 3 right now
L449[17:35:34] <S3> ?
L450[17:35:41] <BobbyTables2012> it isnt specifically an OC pack, but it has OC among other mods
L451[17:36:25] <S3> 20,000 people..
L452[17:36:47] <S3> BobbyTables2012: oh neat
L453[17:36:50] <S3> how is it?
L454[17:37:01] <BobbyTables2012> pretty good
L455[17:37:06] <S3> I haven't played minecraft for quite a while
L456[17:37:15] <BobbyTables2012> it is based around some tech mods you likely arent familiar with though
L457[17:37:16] <S3> I wonder how well it works on this mac
L458[17:37:25] <BobbyTables2012> like immersive engineering and rotarycraft
L459[17:37:28] <S3> that would be neat
L460[17:37:35] <S3> immersive engineering I use quite a bit
L461[17:37:45] <S3> the only reason I use it though is usually for the telephone poles
L462[17:37:51] <S3> with zetta industries and immersive integration
L463[17:37:56] <S3> because then I get oc cables on the poles
L464[17:38:06] <S3> as well as redstone bundle cables, AE cables, etc
L465[17:38:10] <BobbyTables2012> also its somewhat more difficult than your typical pack (its not grindy and its not tfc level)
L466[17:38:19] <BobbyTables2012> but harder, especially early game
L467[17:38:25] <S3> huh
L468[17:38:33] <S3> whys that
L469[17:38:41] <BobbyTables2012> several reasons
L470[17:38:43] <S3> heh
L471[17:39:11] <BobbyTables2012> for one, food rots, hp doesnt naturally regen (there are many early game ways to heal including
L472[17:39:22] <BobbyTables2012> food) and chromaticraft has a mid game way to auto regen hp
L473[17:39:41] <S3> maybe I should fire up a revolution 3 server
L474[17:39:46] <S3> make it public or something
L475[17:39:57] <BobbyTables2012> mining ores gives raw ore instead of ore blocks
L476[17:40:14] <S3> heh
L477[17:40:36] <BobbyTables2012> with a furnace its 1 nugget per ore (but an ore block will give you multiple raw ore
L478[17:41:17] <BobbyTables2012> with a sift it improves to 8 raw ore per ingot (a sift is very easy to make)
L479[17:41:27] <BobbyTables2012> its just wood and an iron bar
L480[17:41:38] <BobbyTables2012> with a windmill (also avaible early game)
L481[17:41:51] <BobbyTables2012> it improves to 4 raw ore per ingot
L482[17:42:21] <BobbyTables2012> after that, with a blast furnace and a grinder it can improve to 2 raw ore per ingot
L483[17:42:40] <S3> heh
L484[17:42:56] <S3> OMG
L485[17:43:04] <S3> I forgot what I was going to do this weekend
L486[17:43:11] <S3> I was going to start working on my foundry
L487[17:43:13] <BobbyTables2012> there is more beyond that
L488[17:43:22] <BobbyTables2012> but you get the idea
L489[17:43:36] <BobbyTables2012> also ore veins are rarer but much larger
L490[17:44:00] <BobbyTables2012> same ammount per chunk on average but instead of having many small veins you have a few large veins
L491[17:44:32] <S3> cool
L492[17:44:33] <BobbyTables2012> it has enviromine so be careful about gravity
L493[17:44:49] <S3> enviromine eh?
L494[17:45:10] <xPucTu4> where can i see the mods list for this server?
L495[17:45:16] <xPucTu4> and where can i register?
L496[17:45:27] <BobbyTables2012> revolutionpack.info
L497[17:45:31] <BobbyTables2012> and atlauncher
L498[17:45:40] <greaser|q> been too long since i touched this, kudos to whoever got devfs working
L499[17:45:46] <BobbyTables2012> I'm on a small public server right now
L500[17:46:28] <greaser|q> fun way to shut down a computer in OC: echo 0 > /dev/components/by-type/computer/0/running
L501[17:46:47] <BobbyTables2012> yep
L502[17:46:53] <greaser|q> but yeah i've been on a CC server for the past week or two and i do have to say fuck CC
L503[17:47:09] <BobbyTables2012> exploited the hell out of it once for a challenge to break somebodies ping protocol
L504[17:48:02] <greaser|q> said server has four "browsers", one is mine
L505[17:48:12] <greaser|q> the other three rely on a central "DNS" server to operate
L506[17:48:28] <greaser|q> each server is separate
L507[17:48:33] <CompanionCube> is it at least a good DNS impl
L508[17:48:38] <greaser|q> no
L509[17:48:50] ⇨ Joins: Nachtara (~Nachiebre@173-22-110-5.client.mchsi.com)
L510[17:48:51] <greaser|q> it's blatantly proprietary and i have exploits for every single one
L511[17:49:04] <greaser|q> basically i can intercept all requests in that regard
L512[17:49:40] <greaser|q> one requires low-level trickery and by low-level trickery i mean one approach is to replace the os.getComputerID function with one which returns a constant
L513[17:50:39] <greaser|q> as for the rest, you can catch when a built-into-rednet DNS query happens and then send a message pointing them to go to your own DNS for one type, and i think for the other type you can do a broadcast to intercept
L514[17:50:56] <BobbyTables2012> neat I have something like that for a large public server on a different pack
L515[17:51:22] <greaser|q> but the cleanest way to go about it is to take it to the low-level modem API, open up the channels pertaining to the specific servers where applicable, and redirect everyone through there
L516[17:51:34] * CompanionCube never properly implemented his idea
L517[17:52:43] <greaser|q> i remember when the way to prevent people from chucking startup disks into a computer was to put a startup disk into the top side
L518[17:52:44] <BobbyTables2012> tfw you are on a pvp server where everyone uses insecure shit like that
L519[17:52:52] <CompanionCube> hell, a basic key-value database gives you a substantial chunk of DNS just like that
L520[17:53:06] <S3> meh
L521[17:53:11] <S3> I guess I will wait on the foundry
L522[17:53:14] <greaser|q> here's my "browser" btw: http://magicannon.com/tvtp.lua
L523[17:53:23] <S3> I don't want to pay $15 for plaster mix
L524[17:53:59] <greaser|q> the other browsers have flaky protocols which don't properly track state
L525[17:54:12] <greaser|q> and don't pay attention to where replies are coming from
L526[17:56:36] <CompanionCube> heh
L527[17:56:52] <greaser|q> here's how it goes: the usual browser uses the built-into-rednet dns protocol to perform a lookup, then sends a "HOSTS" string down the "DNS" protocol, gets a reply with a table of numbers on the "DNS" protocol, those are computer IDs to probe
L528[17:57:11] <greaser|q> it then goes through each ID, one by one, sending a string down the "DNS" protocol with the hostname it needs to look up
L529[17:57:22] <greaser|q> when the DNS replies it replies with a number on the "DNS" protocol
L530[17:57:36] <CompanionCube> ohgodwhat
L531[17:57:40] <greaser|q> after that once it's got a computer id, it sends a string down the "GET" protocol, then gets a table of strings back on the "GET" protocol
L532[17:57:53] <greaser|q> 1. how many fucking round trips do you need and 2. do you even state correctly
L533[17:58:25] <CompanionCube> greaser|q: I planned a half-decent thing in 2014. Never got arround to properly writing it though
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L535[17:59:24] <greaser|q> TVTP (short for Trivial Virus Transfer Protocol because it's just a cleaner way of doing what they're doing and what they're doing is just begging to have a virus written for it) basically just cuts out the DNS step, sends a broadcast requesting a file, and waits on a 2 second timeout for a server to respond
L536[17:59:48] <CompanionCube> greaser|q: the name is apt
L537[18:00:05] <greaser|q> it's loosely inspired by TFTP
L538[18:00:06] <CompanionCube> how long before someone writes a server that just spams malware broadcasts?
L539[18:00:33] <greaser|q> someone already did one which shows ads when a domain hasn't resolved
L540[18:01:31] <CompanionCube> greaser|q: has anyone gotten the point that you wrote it that crappily on purpose
L541[18:02:07] <greaser|q> CompanionCube: i'm just implementing a system that's sufficiently backwards-compatible with the crap they have
L542[18:02:41] <greaser|q> for the requirement of "must execute arbitrary lua code" i've done an intentionally good job
L543[18:02:45] <CompanionCube> greaser|q: hehe. It's certainly bug-compatible and quality-equivalent :D
L544[18:03:55] <greaser|q> not bug-compatible, if someone intercepts shit they have to actually track state properly
L545[18:04:07] <greaser|q> or at least go "yeah, THIS SPECIFIC URL contains this data"
L546[18:04:45] <greaser|q> basically, it gives a cleaner, less-breakable path to getting malware to run
L547[18:05:21] <greaser|q> nice thing is you could actually extend this protocol w/o too much difficulty to actually have some security
L548[18:05:35] <CompanionCube> greaser|q: I wonder how good this broken half-finished PoS is compared to it: https://github.com/OpenPrograms/samis-Programs/tree/master/nidus
L549[18:06:32] <greaser|q> well for starters the indentation is shot so that's usually not a lone code smell
L550[18:06:53] <greaser|q> but at least you have a DNS that lets you do register stuff
L551[18:06:58] <CompanionCube> greaser|q: shit doesn't even work
L552[18:07:36] <CompanionCube> it was something i knocked up in notepad++ rather in a hurry over the span of a couple of days
L553[18:08:34] <greaser|q> i still prefer the approach of just not bothering with a DNS, saves a round trip
L554[18:09:05] <CompanionCube> greaser|q: but who can be bothered using OC's UUIDs for everything
L555[18:09:06] <greaser|q> it does mean that you have broadcasted queries but... well, you're going to have those anyway
L556[18:09:07] <CompanionCube> such typing
L557[18:10:13] <CompanionCube> (the informal 'spec' for the linked code is at http://piratepad.net/AbKoU5oo36)
L558[18:12:37] <CompanionCube> if i could be bothered it would work better as a binary protocol :p
L559[18:13:06] <greaser|q> but yeah, ultimately you just want a port where you can do something like M.broadcast(DNS_PORT, "DNSGet", "foo.bar") and just read a few responses
L560[18:13:44] <greaser|q> "DNSReport", "foo.bar", computer_address
L561[18:14:37] <CompanionCube> how do you solve the problem of someone just returning the same answer for every domain?;
L562[18:14:50] <CompanionCube> an important feature of name resolution is that the result is actually correct
L563[18:15:20] <greaser|q> thing is, i don't do that, although then again OC can actually protect against people doing that
L564[18:15:30] <greaser|q> whereas CC can't really
L565[18:15:39] <greaser|q> w/o refering to public key stuff
L566[18:16:00] <CompanionCube> greaser|q: yeah, PKI could work...but glhf implementing it
L567[18:16:32] <greaser|q> afaik OC has true end-to-end connectivity, CC just emulates it on the rednet layer
L568[18:17:01] <CompanionCube> you can tell what I designed for :p
L569[18:17:57] <greaser|q> for a centralised DNS that allows arbitrary registration: what's stopping someone from just registering a pile of domain names?
L570[18:18:13] <CompanionCube> greaser|q: the admin?
L571[18:18:23] <CompanionCube> or a quota if you want
L572[18:19:27] <greaser|q> a tier 3 server can handle 4 network cards, a server rack can handle 4 servers
L573[18:19:37] <greaser|q> one rack can request 16x your quota
L574[18:19:55] <CompanionCube> greaser|q: alternatively, do the real life solution and make registration cost something somehow
L575[18:20:21] <greaser|q> yeah that trick can work... hmm that inspires me to attempt to run a bank on that server
L576[18:20:34] <greaser|q> could use floppy disks as currency
L577[18:20:50] <CompanionCube> doesn't a bank have secure communications or storage as a requisite?
L578[18:24:04] <CompanionCube> (also, merely registering lots of domains would be pointless beyond bloating the DB. You'd have to figure out which domains are registered ahead of time, or typosquat)
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L580[18:30:35] <greaser|q> also what the fuck, why is quake pro 110 when actual quake pro is 135
L581[18:32:37] <Inari> 135 FoV, for when you want to feel sick
L582[18:33:42] <Inari> ~markov greaser|q
L583[18:33:42] <ocdoc> Please wait ...
L584[18:33:45] <ocdoc> if you've done a partial write gets merged in. if you don't *actually* need to fix up mocha (my kernel)
L585[18:35:25] <greaser|q> ah yes this reminds me that ocmips was a thing
L586[18:35:32] <greaser|q> and mocha at least used to work until i fucked it up
L587[18:36:00] <greaser|q> the "partial write" bit i think has something to do with me trying to implement the data cache on ocmips
L588[18:36:24] <greaser|q> but i don't remember if that was for ocmips (MIPS I) or circuity (MIPS III for maximum disparity vs Z80)
L589[18:37:51] ⇦ Quits: Inari (~Pinkishu@p4FC1E590.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: 'A girl can have multiple page programs!')
L590[18:38:25] <CompanionCube> will OCMIPS/circuity's mips ever be a thing again
L591[18:40:07] <greaser|q> hopefully, once we have a solution for the interrupt handling that doesn't rely on the fact that the Z80 gives off an "interrupt acknowledged" i guess "message" to the intc
L592[18:40:20] <greaser|q> with MIPS you have to explicitly acknowledge afaik
L593[18:40:31] <greaser|q> most Z80 systems also behaved in a similar way
L594[18:41:03] <greaser|q> i'm not sure how many address lines got extended to 64 bits, probably none
L595[18:41:24] <greaser|q> i just liked the idea of being able to have more than 32 physical address pins :)
L596[18:41:51] <greaser|q> at least some MIPS III CPUs actually do support more than 32 physbits (i think the R4600 did 36)
L597[18:43:12] <greaser|q> with that said we definitely have more than 32 virtual bits to play with
L598[18:44:14] <greaser|q> the R4600 has 40 virtual bits available for great justice
L599[18:44:35] <greaser|q> 42 if you include the different privilege modes
L600[18:45:14] <CompanionCube> nice
L601[18:52:09] <greaser|q> on a different note: `Questionable "performance improvements" that are not in Forge for probably very good reasons.` said very good reasons being that foamfix is GPL :^)
L602[18:52:19] <greaser|q> GPL w/ linking exception that is
L603[19:15:49] * Izaya yawns
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L606[19:31:56] <Izaya> \o/ got my super-simple networking system working on the new system
L607[19:42:07] <Izaya> so _G is still accessible but 'global' variables are stored in their own environment. nice.
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L612[19:56:59] <Izaya> I'm a terrible person
L613[19:57:01] <Izaya> local ev = {event.pull()} -- this totally isn't just MultICE code with a fancy wrapper
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L616[20:46:38] <Izaya> I guess I need a name for this thing
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L619[20:55:50] <CompanionCube> Izaya: OpenICE?
L620[20:56:13] <Izaya> nah that's no longer a pun and is even more confusing
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L625[21:33:36] <S3> heh
L626[21:33:41] <S3> yeah
L627[21:33:48] <S3> OpenICE sounds like a new icewm fork
L628[21:34:43] <Izaya> S3: got any fun ideas for names?
L629[21:35:03] <CompanionCube> Izaya: i've always just fed related terms to an acronym generator
L630[21:35:15] <CompanionCube> and see if i could get a good name that way
L631[21:44:19] <S3> Izaya: iceicebaby?
L632[21:44:23] <S3> just kidding
L633[21:44:38] <S3> OMG
L634[21:44:41] <S3> Izaya: IVE GOT IT
L635[21:44:46] <S3> aI'm serious and it's funny too
L636[21:44:53] <S3> OrfICE
L637[21:44:56] <S3> and it makes sense ^
L638[21:46:03] <S3> an OrfICE to the network..
L639[21:46:04] <S3> rofl
L640[21:46:50] <Izaya> that name is a little conflicting
L641[21:48:26] <S3> how?
L642[21:49:26] <Izaya> not sure I'd want to use it considering the attached meaning
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L644[22:06:41] <S3> oh that's just a culture thing
L645[22:06:54] <S3> an orfice doesn't have anything to do with that really
L646[22:07:03] <S3> it's literally a standardized meaning
L647[22:07:20] <S3> people just use it for slang when it's not actually the only meaning of it lol
L648[22:07:28] <S3> we use orfice all the time in mechanics
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L650[22:09:18] <AmandaC> %choose watch anime or continue to shame my family for generations
L651[22:09:19] <MichiBot> AmandaC: continue to shame my family for generations
L652[22:09:22] <AmandaC> Hrm
L653[22:09:30] * Izaya agrees with MichiBot
L654[22:09:33] <AmandaC> nah, time to stop trying to make this lead into gold
L655[22:09:42] <Izaya> dunno how you're doing so but it sounds fun
L656[22:10:06] <S3> AmandaC: crunchyroll is hosting like 20,000 people off of twitch on a 5 day marathon
L657[22:10:12] <S3> @ 1080p
L658[22:10:28] <S3> no idea what show is on atm
L659[22:10:49] <Izaya> twitch has a like, 480p setting, right?
L660[22:10:53] <AmandaC> S3: I've decided to watch more of Psycho Pass
L661[22:11:04] <AmandaC> Which I already have downloaded to my Plex server
L662[22:11:25] <S3> you know I never got into that
L663[22:11:35] <S3> it seemed weird.
L664[22:11:38] <AmandaC> Psycho-Pass or plex?
L665[22:11:47] <S3> psycho pass
L666[22:11:52] <S3> I don't have enough content to use plex
L667[22:11:54] <AmandaC> ah, it's... unique
L668[22:12:23] <AmandaC> it's got an interesting narrative about mental illness / mental "okay"ness that I kinda like, and then it tells an interesting story around that.
L669[22:13:17] <AmandaC> anyway, closing my laptop so I can ignore this gcc build
L670[22:13:58] <gamax92> ahh that sucks, have to downgrade to gcc 5 to get these libraries to work
L671[22:15:31] <smoke_th> Here's a bit of a dumb question. is it legal at all to look at some opensource for dissecting algorithms and then implement it in your own project (no copy-pasting, just logics)? I mean, i suppose it is since none of the algorithms are patented or copyrighted, but eh, never hurts to ask i guess.
L672[22:15:58] <Izaya> I think it only applies to actual code but I'm not 100%
L673[22:16:41] <gamax92> stupid festival source code being old and gcc 6 unfriendly
L674[22:17:05] <smoke_th> unfriendly how?
L675[22:17:22] <gamax92> it segfaults
L676[22:17:56] <smoke_th> Just segfaults? Hm. Tried building a debug version with symbols and attaching gdb?
L677[22:18:00] <smoke_th> might be something trivial
L678[22:18:32] <smoke_th> or you might wanna switch to C99 or C++13, if gcc knows howto (clang does if i recall)
L679[22:19:29] <gamax92> yeah the known work around for it is "-fno-delete-null-pointer-checks -std=gnu++98 -fPIC"
L680[22:19:54] <smoke_th> Lol. That's one shitty lib
L681[22:20:36] <gamax92> festival is actually a pretty good tts system
L682[22:20:53] <gamax92> it just hasn't been updated since december 2014.
L683[22:21:36] <smoke_th> i'm not saying it's a bad system, i'm saying crappy code usually reliant on things which are outside of strict standard which results in noncompilation when standard becomes stricter
L684[22:22:49] <smoke_th> case and point - porting between x86 and PPC back in the day - if your code is ansi-c compliant - it compiles, no problem. if it isn't - world of pain is just around the corner
L685[22:23:59] <S3> you know
L686[22:24:30] <S3> I've been writing in C for years at a very low level (no stdlib, on bare hardare, etc)
L687[22:24:38] <S3> and I've slowly come to this conclusion
L688[22:24:55] <smoke_th> that in-line asm is still evil?
L689[22:24:56] <S3> why the heck did we choose to adopt this syntax anyways
L690[22:25:30] <ds84182> because it was better than what they had before
L691[22:25:38] <smoke_th> ask prof. Kernighan, not me.
L692[22:25:44] <ds84182> PROCEDURE DISASTER() END PROCEDURE
L693[22:25:54] <ds84182> or something
L694[22:26:14] <smoke_th> S3: there is a reason why old BBS meme "COBOL programmer" still exists.
L695[22:26:39] <S3> heh
L696[22:27:49] <S3> I've started classifying C, as platform independent it can actually be with work, as a finite use case language. I've noticed, sure we've gone so far- so far that we have taken a language and adapted it to work with many combinations of platforms and operating systems, etc to do the same work
L697[22:27:52] <S3> 'except
L698[22:28:08] <S3> it's really a super abuse of the language
L699[22:28:24] <smoke_th> well there are always support libs for higher level stuff - libboost is one of them
L700[22:28:37] <S3> right
L701[22:29:12] <S3> but even though we have this "everything is working, and everything -seems- to be working well" thing going on
L702[22:29:23] <S3> it's really surprising anything ever works at all
L703[22:30:17] <S3> C is really better as a finite use case, specific precisely for that machine. Even though it works just fine the way we have all been comfortable using it
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L705[22:30:38] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L706[22:30:50] <S3> in that respect, it is similar to FORTH. It's probably the only similarity it has to FORTH, but of course, that's not how C is used.
L707[22:31:50] <smoke_th> this sounds like special case of "existential crisis" - existential coder crisis - what is the meaning of code working on multiple platforms if everything is meaningless ?
L708[22:32:10] <S3> heheheh
L709[22:32:21] <S3> you know the author of forth once laid out a great article
L710[22:32:28] <S3> about why FORTH code should nevr be portable
L711[22:32:37] <smoke_th> contemplating to name next version of language "fifth" ?
L712[22:32:38] <smoke_th> oh
L713[22:32:40] <S3> and that every machine running forth code should only do exactly what that machine has to do
L714[22:32:51] <S3> but it doesn't apply to all languages of course
L715[22:32:56] <S3> in particular just FORTH in his cae
L716[22:32:58] <S3> case*
L717[22:33:16] <S3> and I see where he's coming from
L718[22:33:40] <smoke_th> that's like, a 3 decade old debate - uniformity of software expectations against variety of system-specific applications
L719[22:33:42] <S3> portable code introduces unnecessary complexity that can actually cause runtime issues that are often unpredictable at compile time
L720[22:33:56] <S3> right
L721[22:34:15] <S3> My wonder is just this
L722[22:34:54] <S3> if C "just works", but isn't actually a great fit for portability, why wasn't it, if it was written with eyes for the development of Unix?
L723[22:34:55] <S3> :D
L724[22:35:04] <S3> and I can half answer that
L725[22:35:10] <S3> because Unix wasn't supposed to become Unix
L726[22:35:11] <S3> but
L727[22:35:53] <smoke_th> General use case is this - you create a platform-independent core of your application and then a bunch of platform-specific adaptors.
L728[22:36:47] <smoke_th> of course that if your app is anything big enough. if it's just a few drops of code on top of gui - it's simplier to just write a bunch of platform-specific versions to begin with
L729[22:39:27] <smoke_th> thing is - C was developed as system development language. Huge chunks of Unix are written on C itself. Idea was to build a flexible language which can be bootstrapped on a naked platform with least amount of asm blood
L730[22:39:43] <smoke_th> thing is - C was developed as system development language. Huge chunks of original Unix are written on C itself. Idea was to build a flexible language which can be bootstrapped on a naked platform with least amount of asm blood
L731[22:40:17] <smoke_th> there was a video of prof. Kernighan talking about it. let me find it
L732[22:40:50] <S3> that's another thing
L733[22:41:04] <smoke_th> there you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de2Hsvxaf8M
L734[22:41:04] <MichiBot> "C" Programming Language: Brian Kernighan - Computerphile | length: 8m 26s | Likes: 7,859 Dislikes: 102 Views: 444,497 | by Computerphile | Published On 18/8/2015
L735[22:41:10] <S3> even with -O3 if you look at a modern compiler such as gcc or clang, holy shit there's a LOT of fat
L736[22:41:39] <S3> the program spends the majority of its time doing C runtime, not anything useful, in most cases
L737[22:41:41] <smoke_th> watch the video doe ?
L738[22:49:53] <smoke_th> hope this answered most of your questions about origins of C ?
L739[23:14:50] <CompanionCube> %oclogs
L740[23:14:50] <MichiBot> https://oclogs.pc-logix.com/
L741[23:17:02] <smoke_th> S3: ?
L742[23:18:39] ⇨ Joins: smoke_fumus (~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90)
L743[23:25:27] <gamax92> this tutorial, wanted me to compile everything and I gave up and just used precompiles from github releases and apt-get
L744[23:27:50] <gamax92> "procedure may take several hours"
L745[23:27:55] <gamax92> well I'll run this tomorrow then, sleep time
L746[23:35:36] <smoke_th> run it while you sleep
L747[23:38:47] <gamax92> can't do
L748[23:46:36] ⇨ Joins: Bhootrk_ (~Bhootrk_@118.189.203.83)
L749[23:55:58] <gamax92> Hopefully it doesn't take too long, seen people saying 200 files was 4 hours, I have 1200
L750[23:57:26] <CompanionCube> gamax92: ?
L751[23:57:33] <CompanionCube> what thing
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