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L1[00:03:26] ⇦ Quits: Kattery (v^@katt.is.cute.pxtst.com) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
L2[00:04:52] <gamax92> fixed it, wooo
L3[00:05:28] <SolraBizna> what program is it?
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L5[00:06:28] <gamax92> SoundWireServer, when it goes to open up pavucontrol it does a for (i=0; i<=255; i++) close(i); and then pavucontrol doesn't run
L6[00:06:41] <gamax92> so, I made it not close(0) and then pavucontrol launches
L7[00:06:46] * SolraBizna headdesks
L8[00:07:18] <gamax92> why it has to close everything I dunno but it does and used to work
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L10[00:12:28] <Mimiru> “ Programming can be fun, so can cryptography; however they should not be combined. ” – Ben Shneiderman
L11[00:18:08] <gamax92> “I haven't even had coffee yet, lay off :<” – Temia
L12[00:19:45] <SolraBizna> https://github.com/SolraBizna/j6502
L13[00:20:04] <SolraBizna> it took me over 20 minutes just to push, the sleep deprivation is real
L14[00:20:13] <SolraBizna> tomorrow I'll plug it into Minecraft
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L18[00:33:27] <Temia> Mu?
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L35[02:19:45] <Inari> I wish there was something like SecondLife but more modern :P Oh well I'm there to make money so I guess I can just use whatever avatar
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L62[04:24:25] <daniel> SecondLive is still a thing?
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L67[04:34:02] <Inari> daniel: Yeah :P Not like there is much of an alternative to it either
L68[04:35:44] <daniel> ok then.
L69[04:36:25] <daniel> but to be honest, I never understood why anyone would use secondlive
L70[04:37:02] <Inari> Some like building stuff in it, some like socialising, some like more R18 acitivties, I guess? xD
L71[04:38:06] <daniel> XD
L72[04:38:12] <daniel> have fun then ;)
L73[04:38:31] <Inari> I find the R18 stuff interesting, but its also just fun to script stuff and you can even earn money with it.
L74[04:49:01] <vifino> Inari's a hooker?
L75[04:49:04] <vifino> What a surprise.
L76[04:51:27] <Inari> vifino: No?
L77[04:51:32] * Lizzy snuggles vifino
L78[04:51:34] <Inari> Make money with scripting :P
L79[04:51:42] <Lizzy> "scripting"
L80[04:54:16] <Forecaster> scrapping
L81[04:58:17] <Inari> I wouldn't make for a very good hooker xD So yes, scripting
L82[05:00:33] <Lizzy> ffs SE
L83[05:05:29] <Ashindigo_> what did se do?
L84[05:06:21] <Ashindigo_> %ping
L85[05:06:22] <MichiBot> Ping reply from Ashindigo_ 0.32s
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L87[05:08:56] * vifino snuggles Lizzy
L88[05:15:39] <Lizzy> Ashindigo_, it crashed on me
L89[05:15:43] * Lizzy snuggles vifino moar
L90[05:16:43] * Lizzy waits for SE to download 74 mods, even though steam already downloaded them?
L91[05:17:00] <Ashindigo_> %stab crashes
L92[05:17:03] * MichiBot hits crashes with tea doing [10] damage
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L100[06:47:51] <Forecaster> %stab tea
L101[06:47:53] * MichiBot slaps tea with item doing [5] damage
L102[08:03:24] <Izaya> s/$/b
L103[08:03:29] <Izaya> s/$/b/
L104[08:03:36] <Izaya> >.>
L105[08:03:51] <Forecaster> you're probably trying to replace something too far back
L106[08:04:03] <Izaya> $ is end of line
L107[08:04:11] <Izaya> s/damage/damage stuff/
L108[08:04:13] <Izaya> wait
L109[08:04:21] <Izaya> s/back/back further/
L110[08:04:22] <MichiBot> <Forecaster> you're probably trying to replace something too far back further
L111[08:04:36] <Izaya> s/back/back\nJOIN #V/
L112[08:04:36] <MichiBot> <Forecaster> you're probably trying to replace something too far backnJOIN #V further
L113[08:04:40] <Izaya> welp
L114[08:04:48] <Izaya> that one is command injection safe too
L115[08:04:49] <Izaya> yay
L116[08:04:50] <Forecaster> ...
L117[08:05:00] <Forecaster> oh yeah, you have an alt name too
L118[08:05:09] <Izaya> huh?
L119[08:05:39] <Forecaster> IzayaXMPP
L120[08:05:47] <Izaya> yeah
L121[08:05:55] <Izaya> that's what I use on my XMPP -> IRC bridge
L122[08:06:15] <Forecaster> now when you do that you will still show up as Izaya for me
L123[08:10:47] <Forecaster> hm
L124[08:11:14] <Forecaster> I should be able to make the script apply more general aliases in certain cases, like this one
L125[08:11:23] <Forecaster> where it's just the usual name with a suffix
L126[08:11:30] <Forecaster> I can simply have the script remove the suffix
L127[08:11:58] <Forecaster> eh, probably not worh the effort since I'd need to tell it the original name as well
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L152[11:12:23] <Inari> TIL sennight = a week
L153[11:20:17] <gamax92> Inari: you can't make a lot of money in SL :P
L154[11:20:47] <Inari> gamax92: Depends on what you mean by "a lot" I guess :P
L155[11:21:14] <gamax92> well, the rates you get in SL are based around SL's marketplace and compared to USD or just real currency in general, everything on the SL marketplace is super cheap
L156[11:21:58] <Inari> I mean if you get like 5000 for a script that some 21 euros. and even if just 2000, still 9 euros
L157[11:22:51] <gamax92> ahh, you want to do script selling
L158[11:22:56] <Inari> Yeah :P
L159[11:23:02] <Inari> Well, script making
L160[11:23:13] <Inari> Premade scripts don'tsell for much I guess
L161[11:31:43] <SolraBizna> okay, time to do the thing
L162[11:32:25] <Inari> SolraBizna: Lewd thing?
L163[11:32:32] <SolraBizna> no, that's later
L164[11:32:35] <SolraBizna> ...I mean what?
L165[11:32:41] <Inari> Oooooh
L166[11:32:43] <Inari> Pray tell
L167[11:32:56] <SolraBizna> I don't think I can talk about the lewd thing in this channel
L168[11:33:08] <Inari> Do it in another channel
L169[11:34:59] <gamax92> SolraBizna: (Inari sends you a channel invite)
L170[11:54:24] <SolraBizna> I'm gonna call it 65OC02
L171[11:57:45] <SolraBizna> ...I really can't get past how clumsy it is to type
L172[12:02:51] <SolraBizna> maybe it should be OC-6502 instead...
L173[12:13:15] *** cbcercas|AFK is now known as cbcercas
L174[12:14:02] <SolraBizna> if I name it OC-6502, people will be annoyed that it's a 65C02 instead of a 6502
L175[12:14:44] <SolraBizna> if I name it OC-65C02, that's awful
L176[12:18:42] ⇨ Joins: S3 (~S3@coreos2.lobsternetworks.com)
L177[12:18:53] <S3> Today I learned that Arch is not Linux Standard Base compliant..
L178[12:21:58] <gamax92> S3: go on
L179[12:22:16] <S3> nope
L180[12:22:19] <SolraBizna> <Linux community> The differences between distros are annoying. Let's come up with a standard.
L181[12:22:30] <SolraBizna> <Linux Standard Base> Hi!
L182[12:22:50] <SolraBizna> <Linux community> Wait, why doesn't the standard just standardize the quirks of the distro I use?
L183[12:27:31] <CompanionCube> S3: lol LSB
L184[12:30:02] <SolraBizna> 30-second quickpoll: What should my 65C02 architecture be called? OC-65, Open65, OC-6502, OC-65C02, or 65OC02?
L185[12:30:07] <S3> CompanionCube: gotta troll somehow
L186[12:31:55] <S3> SolraBizna: you know gamax92 already has one right?
L187[12:32:00] <SolraBizna> yes
L188[12:32:02] <S3> called ocsymon
L189[12:32:10] <S3> you should call it osmos
L190[12:32:13] <S3> ocmos*
L191[12:32:16] <SolraBizna> ooh
L192[12:32:24] <SolraBizna> okay, I like that one a lot
L193[12:32:30] <S3> or
L194[12:32:34] <SolraBizna> too late, I did mkdir
L195[12:32:36] <S3> 65oc02
L196[12:32:37] <SolraBizna> can't back out now
L197[12:32:43] <S3> I dunno
L198[12:32:53] <S3> SolraBizna: you know I have an FPGA
L199[12:32:59] <S3> I'm making an MMU for a 6502 core
L200[12:33:00] <SolraBizna> I do now
L201[12:33:30] <S3> it can map a 24 bit / 16 MiB address space in 64K 6502 land
L202[12:35:43] <S3> SolraBizna: why not help me make a j1 architecture for oc?
L203[12:36:00] <SolraBizna> because I already had the emulator code because of my real work
L204[12:36:03] <S3> j1 is the "forth cpu"
L205[12:36:13] <S3> or...
L206[12:36:25] <S3> you could help me make a no insruction set architecture
L207[12:36:29] <S3> a cpu with no instructiosn
L208[12:36:34] <S3> instructions*
L209[12:36:38] <SolraBizna> I already made a OISC chip
L210[12:36:43] <CompanionCube> S3: are you going for a transport-triggered architecture?
L211[12:36:46] <S3> or a single instruction set
L212[12:36:48] <SolraBizna> It didn't... *entirely* work
L213[12:36:59] <SolraBizna> but it was fun
L214[12:37:01] <S3> heh
L215[12:37:06] <S3> CompanionCube: lol
L216[12:37:25] * CompanionCube does not know much about OISCs
L217[12:37:36] <S3> NISC!
L218[12:37:46] <S3> CompanionCube: they are strange
L219[12:37:48] <vifino> Hey S3.
L220[12:37:51] <S3> hey vifino
L221[12:37:59] <vifino> You liked the 8080, right
L222[12:38:05] <vifino> +?
L223[12:41:09] <SolraBizna> transport-triggered architectures I can wrap my head around
L224[12:41:16] <SolraBizna> subtract and branch if negative, on the other hand...
L225[12:44:20] <vifino> In any case, I'm working on a Lua 8080 emulator, S3. Totally useful. I mean, theoretically space invaders in minecraft! The real space invaders!
L226[12:44:38] <vifino> Or, idk, CP/M.
L227[12:45:13] <SolraBizna> ...for some reason, that sounds really cool
L228[12:45:26] <vifino> :3
L229[12:45:33] <vifino> A ZPU emulator wasn't enough.
L230[12:46:11] <SolraBizna> I didn't know you could make an anti-aircraft gun in pure Lua
L231[12:46:23] <vifino> Huh?
L232[12:46:29] <vifino> No, ZPU, the CPU architecture.
L233[12:46:42] <vifino> https://github.com/vifino/lua-zpuemu
L234[12:46:53] <vifino> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZPU_(microprocessor)
L235[12:47:53] <SolraBizna> huh, I didn't realize how small it was
L236[12:48:13] <vifino> It is really small.
L237[12:48:51] <vifino> After I am done with the 8080, I guess I'll implement AVR or something.
L238[12:48:54] <vifino> Because yay.
L239[12:49:12] <vifino> Need more CPU architectures to slap onto computech.
L240[12:50:29] <vifino> http://pb.i0i0.me/p/5sceDoYK
L241[12:51:01] <vifino> Notable missing ops: CALL/RET stuff.
L242[12:51:19] <vifino> But.. jumps are there!
L243[12:51:24] <vifino> Who needs anything else, really?
L244[12:53:21] <TYKUHN2> Heh
L245[12:53:38] <TYKUHN2> Throw a stone at the hyperloop get charged for bombing LA and San Francisco with 50 ton bombs.
L246[12:53:38] <SolraBizna> ...
L247[12:53:52] <SolraBizna> y'all better be glad I committed to this project *before* opening Eclipse
L248[12:54:03] <SolraBizna> because otherwise this would be the part where I go "No, fuck that"
L249[12:54:10] <vifino> Hah.
L250[12:54:21] <vifino> SolraBizna: You can do it!
L251[12:54:21] <SolraBizna> Instantly reminded of all the reasons I don't mod Minecraft
L252[12:54:34] <TYKUHN2> I wish I could do it ?
L253[13:00:38] <SolraBizna> Every time I sit down to work on this, I get called away
L254[13:01:24] <TYKUHN2> Hey Solra could you come over here?
L255[13:02:35] * Ashindigo_ kidnaps solr
L256[13:02:50] <Ashindigo_> s/solr/solra
L257[13:02:50] <MichiBot> <Ashindigo_> kidnaps solra
L258[13:03:39] <gamax92> ␁
L259[13:03:54] <gamax92> you tried MichiBot
L260[13:03:56] <gamax92> you tried
L261[13:05:26] <gamax92> Forecaster: maybe one could look into fixing that as well? :D
L262[13:05:58] <Forecaster> I can try
L263[13:06:06] <Forecaster> I've never looked at the replace module
L264[13:07:03] <Forecaster> I believe the issue there is the : it uses
L265[13:07:13] <Forecaster> it needs to exlude that when it's an action
L266[13:07:19] <Forecaster> otherwise it turns into a CTCP
L267[13:09:24] ⇦ Quits: Nachtara (~Nachiebre@173-22-110-5.client.mchsi.com) (Quit: Always save before encountering a shiny.)
L268[13:43:04] <SolraBizna> okay BACK, dangit
L269[13:43:26] <Forecaster> Aaah!
L270[13:43:40] <Forecaster> %stab surprise
L271[13:43:40] * MichiBot hits surprise with bytecode exploit doing [3] damage
L272[13:44:56] ⇦ Quits: bauen1 (~quassel@2a02:810d:1980:1584:6cf2:5aa3:8731:a644) (Remote host closed the connection)
L273[13:46:08] <SolraBizna> ...and now first aid time
L274[13:49:35] <Ashindigo_> %pet surprise
L275[13:49:36] * MichiBot pets surprise with a Temia-tan plushy that muus if you squeeze it. surprise recovers 5 health!, the Temia-tplushy that muus if you squeeze it phases out of the dimension.
L276[13:49:54] <Temia> Nooooo D:
L277[13:49:55] <Ashindigo_> Temia-tan branded products are always good for first aid
L278[13:50:06] <Inari> Uh
L279[13:50:15] <Inari> Forecaster: Whys that cutoff the second time o.o
L280[13:50:40] <Forecaster> huh?
L281[13:50:46] <Forecaster> cutoff the second time?
L282[13:50:48] <Inari> "with a Temia-tan plushy"
L283[13:50:56] <Inari> "the Temia-tplushy"
L284[13:51:04] <Forecaster> oh
L285[13:51:09] <Temia> I see what happened.
L286[13:51:16] <Temia> It overzealously filtered "a/an"
L287[13:51:19] <Forecaster> cause it removes "an "
L288[13:51:19] <Inari> Heh
L289[13:51:26] <Forecaster> thinking it's a prefix
L290[13:51:40] <Temia> Sounds like a job for regexes
L291[13:51:46] <Forecaster> I need to update that anyway
L292[13:51:56] <Forecaster> it's a bit hodgepodgy at the moment
L293[13:52:01] <Mimiru> Do you want Forecaster to have 2 problems?!
L294[13:52:10] <Temia> Maybe.
L295[13:53:01] <Forecaster> I had a plan for updating that bit...
L296[13:53:10] <Forecaster> unfortunately I've forgotten it
L297[13:53:54] *** Alex_hawks is now known as Alex_hawks|zzz
L298[13:56:36] ⇨ Joins: SixDev (uid64016@2604:8300:100:200b:6667:7:0:fa10)
L299[13:57:42] <SolraBizna> okay
L300[13:57:47] <SolraBizna> any other interruptions?!
L301[13:58:05] <Inari> %stab SolraBizna's interrupt port
L302[13:58:06] * MichiBot hits SolraBizna's interrupt port with unicode doing [13] damage
L303[13:58:15] <SolraBizna> ...I just missed an opportunity to use ‽
L304[13:58:29] <Inari> Interrobang!
L305[13:58:36] <SolraBizna> :D
L306[13:59:00] <Mimiru> Hexchaty is SUPPOSED to auto replace ?! and !? with ‽... but it fails to do replacements when atattachedo a string
L307[13:59:02] <Inari> %flip ‽
L308[13:59:02] <MichiBot> Inari: (╯°□°）╯‽
L309[13:59:04] <Inari> Hrm
L310[13:59:23] <SolraBizna> ⸘ and ‽ make a natural pair for flipping
L311[13:59:33] <Mimiru> I don't see ⸘
L312[13:59:45] <SolraBizna> as in, it doesn't show up correctly?
L313[13:59:47] <Mimiru> I do in discord though..
L314[13:59:52] <Inari> %inv add ⸘Interrobang‽
L315[13:59:53] <MichiBot> Inari: Added '⸘Interrobang‽' to inventory. This seems very sturdy.
L316[13:59:55] <SolraBizna> ...what software are you using?
L317[13:59:56] *** Liz is now known as Vic
L318[13:59:59] <Mimiru> yeah justabox
L319[14:00:13] <SolraBizna> 'cause I'm on xterm and I'm used to being the odd one out for Unicode support >_>
L320[14:00:20] <Mimiru> Hexchat, windows 10, consoles font
L321[14:00:47] <Mimiru> my fallbacks are Arial Unicode MS,Segoe UI Emoji,Lucida Sans Unicode,Meiryo,Symbola,Unifont
L322[14:01:14] <SolraBizna> I am really surprised that the X11 6x13 font has ⸘ but none of those do
L323[14:01:36] <Forecaster> I see a box
L324[14:04:09] <Temia> Inconsolata has it \o/
L325[14:08:21] <SolraBizna> GreaseMonkey: I'm putting a hardbus interface into OCMOS, the forum post better be the current proposal
L326[14:10:44] <SolraBizna> does anybody have any information on the statistical properties of uninitialized DRAM?
L327[14:12:53] <gamax92> I see the fancy upside-down interrobang
L328[14:13:35] <gamax92> SolraBizna: alternating blocks of 0xFF and 0x00?
L329[14:15:30] <gamax92> I remember watching a video about memory decay, they put a picture of the mona lisa in memory, took the memory out for a while, then see what they could recover at various power-off lengths and temperatures
L330[14:15:43] <SolraBizna> I would love to see that video
L331[14:16:43] *** cbcercas is now known as cbcercas|AFK
L332[14:16:47] <gamax92> SolraBizna: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EuUwDvlHz8 here's one related to the paper
L333[14:16:47] <MichiBot> Remanence of Memory | length: 1m 4s | Likes: 16 Dislikes: 1 Views: 15,801 | by pucitp | Published On 21/2/2008
L334[14:17:34] <SolraBizna> okay, that is super cool
L335[14:18:52] <SolraBizna> I'm guess it has something to do with the geometry of the bitlines
L336[14:19:38] <SolraBizna> s/I'm/I'd/
L337[14:19:40] <MichiBot> <SolraBizna> I'd guess it has something to do with the geometry of the bitlines
L338[14:20:56] <gamax92> SolraBizna: but you would probably be good with setting uninitialized memory to all 0xFF
L339[14:21:36] <SolraBizna> well, in the case of OCMOS, whatever I do will be to improve "the experience" of programming a 65C02
L340[14:21:50] <SolraBizna> all FFs seems like a reasonable way to do that
L341[14:22:53] <gamax92> SolraBizna: from what I remember when doing my NES emulator it was said that memory in an NES would likely be mostly 1s with chances of 0s scattered around
L342[14:23:34] <SolraBizna> the NES was based around NMOS, so everything gets pulled high
L343[14:26:40] <Forecaster> allright, fixed prefix handling
L344[14:28:43] <SolraBizna> do memory modules give their actual size in the tooltop in current OC?
L345[14:43:45] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@p200300556E2EEE04A83A9255C7F096C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: I guess I have to go now. Bye ✔)
L346[14:44:33] <Forecaster> ohno
L347[14:45:04] ⇨ Joins: bauen1 (~quassel@2a02:810d:1980:1584:516e:91c9:6ab4:2d5a)
L348[14:45:15] <SolraBizna> ohno?
L349[14:45:25] <Ashindigo_> ohno.
L350[14:48:14] <gamax92> ohno!
L351[14:57:57] <SolraBizna> was it an answer to my question?
L352[14:59:43] ⇨ Joins: flint (webchat@pC19EB392.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L353[15:00:58] <flint> hi, someone here who can tell me how to connect a remote terminal to a server in oc 1.6? i read in the wiki and saw some tutorial but it didn't work...
L354[15:07:09] <SolraBizna> I've never gotten it to work either
L355[15:07:15] <SolraBizna> but I haven't tried since 1.6
L356[15:11:52] ⇦ Quits: flint (webchat@pC19EB392.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Web client closed)
L357[15:12:08] ⇨ Joins: flint (~flint@pC19EB392.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L358[15:12:31] <Forecaster> flint: terminal server
L359[15:12:48] <Forecaster> it's a rack-mountable
L360[15:13:01] <Forecaster> you need one in the rack with the server, they need to be connected in the gui
L361[15:13:16] <Forecaster> then you link the remote terminal to the terminal server
L362[15:14:50] <flint> do i need a gpu to get output?
L363[15:15:13] <AmandaC> yes
L364[15:15:41] <AmandaC> It only acts as a Screen/Keyboard, not a GPU
L365[15:17:29] <SolraBizna> confirmed
L366[15:18:18] ⇨ Joins: flint_ (webchat@pC19EB392.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L367[15:19:32] <flint> shutdown
L368[15:19:35] ⇦ Quits: flint (~flint@pC19EB392.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
L369[15:21:36] <flint_> it seems like i'm getting in trouble having multiple servers and computers connected to one screen...
L370[15:24:43] <GreaseMonkey> SolraBizna: the forum post is not the current proposal, i can get you that
L371[15:24:54] <GreaseMonkey> SolraBizna: https://github.com/iamgreaser/hardbus-oc/
L372[15:25:00] <SolraBizna> is there an implementation yet?
L373[15:25:18] <GreaseMonkey> atm no
L374[15:26:02] <GreaseMonkey> fun thing about the gpu hardbus api proposal is it's based on the ps1
L375[15:26:45] <SolraBizna> aw man, it's 32-bit
L376[15:26:48] <GreaseMonkey> but yeah, the plumbing is not in place in OC so you'd basically have to emulate
L377[15:27:12] <GreaseMonkey> the eeprom thing should work fine on an 8-bit bus
L378[15:27:29] <GreaseMonkey> with that said:
L379[15:27:32] <GreaseMonkey> 18 I RS command_dma_len - in 32-bit words - command DMA activates when you write the uppermost byte of this
L380[15:27:57] <GreaseMonkey> ^ basically you'd use DMA for your commands and then write to that register
L381[15:28:03] <SolraBizna> for practical purposes, that'd be nearly as hard to deal with on a 65C02 as UIF is
L382[15:28:57] <GreaseMonkey> yeah... you may want to look into circuity at some stage
L383[15:29:09] <GreaseMonkey> there's two CPUs for it, the 8-bit Z80, and the 64-bit MIPS3
L384[15:29:16] <GreaseMonkey> guess who did what ;)
L385[15:29:35] <gamax92> GreaseMonkey: Sangar did the Z80 and you did the mips3?
L386[15:30:00] <SolraBizna> that is an amazingly hard name to Google
L387[15:30:17] <flint_> whats the best way to choose which server to control?
L388[15:30:36] <SolraBizna> Connect the server you want to control to the terminal server, via the rack's internal connection thing
L389[15:31:38] <SolraBizna> as relevant as circuity looks, I can't afford the time to do much more research than I've already done
L390[15:31:59] <SolraBizna> I'm gonna use the proposed EEPROM protocol from hardbus, though
L391[15:32:37] <flint_> and how do i disconnect from a terminal server?
L392[15:33:09] <Forecaster> iirc you can't
L393[15:33:18] <Forecaster> the remote terminals are a bit weird
L394[15:33:20] <flint_> *disconnect the remote terminal from a terminal server
L395[15:33:33] <flint_> hmm
L396[15:34:04] <SolraBizna> do you mind if I "finish" it super-quick and make a PR?
L397[15:38:19] <flint_> but thanks for the help :)
L398[15:47:59] ⇨ Joins: Hyst (cxsss1@CPE-124-189-28-144.bkzh1.cht.bigpond.net.au)
L399[15:51:16] ⇦ Quits: xarses (~xarses@c-71-198-44-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
L400[15:52:43] ⇨ Joins: xarses (~xarses@c-71-198-44-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
L401[15:52:56] <SolraBizna> thread-safe IRQ lost me <5% performance
L402[15:54:12] ⇦ Quits: xarses (~xarses@c-71-198-44-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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L404[15:55:15] <Inari> [19:31:54] <S3> SolraBizna: you know gamax92 already has one right? <- gamax has a working 6502 arch? :o
L405[15:55:37] <Inari> %remindsme in 2 days try OC-6502
L406[15:55:42] <Inari> %remindme in 2 days try OC-6502
L407[15:55:46] <Inari> Pls
L408[15:55:58] <Mimiru> %remindme 30s smack inari
L409[15:56:02] <MichiBot> I'll remind you about "smack inari" at 03/11/2017 03:56:28 PM
L410[15:56:07] <Inari> %remindme 2d try OC-6502
L411[15:56:07] <MichiBot> I'll remind you about "try OC-6502" at 03/13/2017 04:56:07 PM
L412[15:56:36] <gamax92> Inari: technically yes, technically it does infact work
L413[15:56:38] <MichiBot> REMINDER Mimiru smack inari
L414[15:56:49] <Inari> gamax92: I dislike the "technically"
L415[15:56:50] <gamax92> you can't do much with it besides output text to the terminal, but it's a working 6502
L416[15:57:02] <Inari> Then its somewhat pointless xD
L417[15:57:18] <gamax92> Inari: yeah well oc's interface isn't exactly 6502 friendly
L418[15:57:57] <gamax92> everything on a 6502 is geared for working with 8bit numbers and oh shit what's this dacb94ab-15ad-4643-ba9f-ab18ccb2bc4f
L419[15:58:19] <Inari> UUID?
L420[15:59:35] <gamax92> a lot of stuff that would attached to the 65xx family is 8 bit friendly and then hello component.filesystem.list() that gives a table
L421[16:00:03] <Inari> Well a table is just an array
L422[16:00:09] <gamax92> no?
L423[16:00:41] <Inari> Well a map then :P
L424[16:00:43] <gamax92> yes
L425[16:01:07] <gamax92> also another issue, typically you work with memory addresses to access devices, oc works with function names
L426[16:01:10] <Inari> If you're lazy you turn it into an array of pairs
L427[16:01:18] <SolraBizna> gamax92 did not want to make a UIF-style component interface for his core, so he didn't
L428[16:01:28] <gamax92> SolraBizna: so what is this UIF btw?
L429[16:01:32] <SolraBizna> OETF #2
L430[16:01:45] <SolraBizna> the interchange format OC-ARM used for its generic component IO
L431[16:02:00] <gamax92> it's kinda clunky
L432[16:02:00] <SolraBizna> we had a long argument about this a few months ago, do you not remember?
L433[16:02:07] <gamax92> no
L434[16:02:27] <Inari> I mean
L435[16:02:37] <SolraBizna> "It's not realistic" "The way I'm describing it, it's like I2C with really long addresses and commands" "Well, I don't like it"
L436[16:02:42] <Inari> if you're only issue is thats omething is "kinda clunky" when you're writing software in 6502 assembly
L437[16:02:48] <Inari> *your
L438[16:03:48] <gamax92> SolraBizna: well actually the UIF stuff is pretty similar to what I did for generic IO but I farther than that and also offered 8bit friendly stuff
L439[16:04:05] <ds84182> well, we are dealing with a mod that has a component interface more suitable for high level languages
L440[16:04:07] <SolraBizna> OCMOS is going to have a UIF bus *and* memory-mapped 8-bit peripherals
L441[16:05:02] <gamax92> sounds good
L442[16:07:29] ⇦ Quits: flint_ (webchat@pC19EB392.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
L443[16:09:35] <SolraBizna> and it's going to have a lot more DMA than I would probably build
L444[16:10:20] <gamax92> SolraBizna: DMA will take up CPU cycles right?
L445[16:10:25] <SolraBizna> yup
L446[16:13:22] <SolraBizna> Inari: do you want me to poke you sooner if it's ready sooner?
L447[16:13:44] <SolraBizna> because Monday is actually when I have to start doing real work again, and my excuse for doing OCMOS isn't reusable
L448[16:14:17] <Inari> Dunno, you siad it'll be done by monday, so I set the reminder for then :p
L449[16:14:45] <Inari> And off to bed now anyway
L450[16:14:46] <Inari> Byes
L451[16:14:48] <SolraBizna> Night
L452[16:15:41] <gamax92> SolraBizna: what do you plan on having your default eeprom be btw?
L453[16:15:57] <SolraBizna> a bootloader that loads an S19 or Intel HEX file from a connected filesystem
L454[16:16:12] <SolraBizna> or straight-up binary image
L455[16:17:01] <SolraBizna> since I'm planning to support OETF #1, that'll also include booting from an unmanaged filesystem
L456[16:17:08] <SolraBizna> forget what weird thing they're called
L457[16:17:42] <gamax92> I ended up just doing a simple file manager to load binary images to the top of memory
L458[16:19:49] <SolraBizna> ...how do Values get loaded from NBT?
L459[16:20:57] <gamax92> ehh, why do you want these ascii hex formats?
L460[16:21:09] <SolraBizna> some tools are good at generating them
L461[16:21:21] <SolraBizna> AS65, for example
L462[16:21:28] <gamax92> ahh
L463[16:21:49] <GreaseMonkey> gamax92: sorry been watching asie's stream... yeah, you got it right
L464[16:22:00] <GreaseMonkey> rationale for the MIPS3: 64-bit is a good stress test
L465[16:22:09] <GreaseMonkey> for the flexibility of an architecture
L466[16:22:53] <gamax92> asie is streaming? D:
L467[16:23:39] <SolraBizna> aaaand called away again
L468[16:25:45] <gamax92> take your avatar, put it into memory, power off computer for a while, then dump memory and set that as your avatar :D
L469[16:28:29] ⇦ Quits: Inari (~Pinkishu@p4FC1E637.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: 'Beauty can be found where _everything_ is in harmony.' - Symmetra (Overwatch))
L470[16:29:11] ⇦ Quits: SixDev (uid64016@2604:8300:100:200b:6667:7:0:fa10) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
L471[16:29:22] ⇦ Quits: xarses (~xarses@c-71-198-44-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 206 seconds)
L472[16:30:51] ⇨ Joins: xarses (~xarses@c-71-198-44-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
L473[16:31:30] <gamax92> lag on beam.pro is pretty low
L474[16:31:38] <GreaseMonkey> 12 seconds roughly
L475[16:31:59] <Ashindigo_> Asie streams?
L476[16:38:39] * Temia flops on Michi
L477[16:38:56] <Temia> I officially hate being a miqo'te paladin .-.
L478[16:39:37] <Temia> I just helped a friend with Shiva, and the other tank, a warrior, responded to a question of if he wanted to be off-tank, by saying "you OT" [sic] and petting me.
L479[16:39:46] <Temia> ...and I out-aggroed him with sword oath orz
L480[16:39:53] <gamax92> Temia: ff14?
L481[16:40:04] <Temia> Yep.
L482[16:40:11] <Mimiru> <_<
L483[16:40:33] <Temia> The condescension was incredible, as well as the hubris.
L484[16:42:38] <Temia> Needless to say, he evaporated out of embarrassment.
L485[16:44:00] <gamax92> ack, that's expensive to play.
L486[16:45:31] <Temia> Yeah .-. A friend of mine got me the game and was paying for my subscription so I could play with him, but he's since had other stuff going on in life so my boyfriend's picked up my sub instead.
L487[16:45:46] <Temia> I'd like to pay for it myself eventually, but not until things settle down. <.<
L488[16:46:12] <Mimiru> I'm paying for 2 subs heh
L489[16:46:20] <Temia> Oh?
L490[16:46:30] <Mimiru> @Naomi and I play
L491[16:47:07] <Temia> Ahh~
L492[16:47:15] <Temia> But anyway yeah.
L493[16:47:27] <Temia> That was an experience.
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L497[16:55:29] <SolraBizna> I have a minor problem
L498[16:55:35] ⇨ Joins: Totoro (~totoro@fomalhaut.me)
L499[16:55:44] <Ashindigo_> O rly
L500[16:55:46] <SolraBizna> With asynchronous IRQs, a program can get a signal even if it happens in the middle of a tick
L501[16:55:58] <SolraBizna> but if it does WAI, it will *definitely* never get that signal until the next tick
L502[16:56:03] <SolraBizna> even though it would've gotten it earlier if it busy-waited
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L507[17:25:10] <SolraBizna> anybody care if OCMOS can't address more than just under 1MiB of memory?
L508[17:25:57] <SolraBizna> fine, I'll make it just under 32MiB
L509[17:27:33] <Skye> wut?
L510[17:30:38] <SolraBizna> deciding how many bits the bank number should occupy
L511[17:58:14] <Izaya> OCMOS?
L512[17:58:39] <SolraBizna> a W65C02 for OC
L513[17:59:08] <Izaya> oh
L514[17:59:20] <Izaya> the 65C8@
L515[17:59:24] <Izaya> Argh
L516[17:59:43] <Izaya> The 65C816 can do 24-bit addressing m
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L518[17:59:50] <Izaya> and has 16-bit opa
L519[17:59:52] <Izaya> ops
L520[18:00:07] <SolraBizna> I'm making OCMOS because I had to make a cycle-accurate W65C02 emulator for work reasons.
L521[18:01:13] <Izaya> hysterical rasins?
L522[18:01:42] <SolraBizna> "Work" in this case is designing and building a custom 8-bit game console using 1980's parts.
L523[18:01:58] <SolraBizna> *1980s
L524[18:03:25] <Izaya> that sounds fun
L525[18:16:35] <vifino> >OCMOS
L526[18:16:38] <vifino> I do not approve.
L527[18:16:55] <vifino> 65OC02 or bust.
L528[18:17:12] <SolraBizna> it will be mistyped *all* the time
L529[18:17:22] <vifino> Does not matter.
L530[18:17:30] <vifino> Awesome regardless and you know it.
L531[18:17:33] <SolraBizna> I do
L532[18:17:38] <SolraBizna> but it's too late, I already did mkdir
L533[18:17:42] <SolraBizna> and we all know there's no way to undo mkdir
L534[18:17:45] <vifino> :(
L535[18:18:19] <vifino> I am disappointed. And sad.
L536[18:20:10] <Skye> vifino: make a fork that the only purpose is a name change
L537[18:20:49] <gamax92> and then pr it
L538[18:23:06] <vifino> SolraBizna: Do it, you know you want to.
L539[18:23:32] <SolraBizna> Too busy designing an MMU to rename
L540[18:23:38] <vifino> Later?
L541[18:24:12] <vifino> I'm sure Vexatoast would support me with this. It's the perfect name.
L542[18:24:31] <SolraBizna> If a huge grassroots campaign protesting the current name takes place, I'll change it.
L543[18:25:25] <vifino> Done/
L544[18:25:26] <vifino> Done.
L545[18:26:17] <SolraBizna> can anybody think of instructions other than WAI/STP/SEI that should be privileged?
L546[18:26:56] <vifino> https://www.strawpoll.me/12511247
L547[18:26:58] <Skye> SolraBizna: well... Anything that could stop virtulisation
L548[18:27:01] <vifino> gamax92, Skye: vote
L549[18:28:10] <Skye> Where is 65OC02
L550[18:28:37] <SolraBizna> SEI can stop virtualization if you're not using the watchdog timer to enforce it
L551[18:28:49] <SolraBizna> STP... shuts down the processor, so that's obviously not okay for User code
L552[18:28:51] <vifino> SolraBizna: just vote
L553[18:28:56] <gamax92> SolraBizna: coprocessor instruction?
L554[18:29:15] <SolraBizna> W65C02 doesn't have one
L555[18:29:18] <SolraBizna> not in the datasheet, at least
L556[18:29:22] <Skye> SolraBizna: also the way to tell if you're in privileged mode or not.
L557[18:29:26] <SolraBizna> if you tell me "it's there, the datasheet lies" I'll have to believe you
L558[18:29:29] <gamax92> Oh your doing that
L559[18:30:21] <SolraBizna> ...huh, I've accidentally made this fully virtualizable
L560[18:35:52] <SolraBizna> I think that strawpoll is data in favor of not naming it 65OC02
L561[18:49:31] <SolraBizna> temporarily out of juice
L562[18:49:43] <SolraBizna> who wants to critique my MMU design?
L563[18:49:53] <SolraBizna> https://bunker.tejat.net/private/public/ocmosmap/
L564[18:51:59] <gamax92> SolraBizna: 4KB banks?
L565[18:52:33] <vifino> :(
L566[19:06:10] <SolraBizna> yes
L567[19:06:54] <SolraBizna> (gamax92, sorry for delayed response, was forcing a dog to eat a pill)
L568[19:32:06] <SolraBizna> there's something perverse about realizing that this would give a 6502 the ability to have virtual memory and virtualization
L569[19:35:16] <gamax92> SolraBizna: the 6502 thinks it's in control but alas, the memory has been swept from right under it!
L570[19:35:54] <Lymia> you're
L571[19:35:59] <gamax92> oh hey Lymia
L572[19:36:03] <Lymia> adding a mmu to a 8 bit CPU?
L573[19:36:13] <SolraBizna> Inari made me do it
L574[19:36:21] <gamax92> I would have done it too tbh
L575[19:36:22] <gamax92> and did
L576[19:36:41] <Lymia> Inari why
L577[19:37:40] <gamax92> why not, it's not exactly an unconventional thing, memory mappers were a thing
L578[19:38:41] <Lymia> Who'd
L579[19:38:58] <Lymia> Even imagine using anything resembling a protected mode in that small of a device
L580[19:39:20] * SolraBizna raises hand
L581[19:39:22] <gamax92> ^
L582[19:40:07] <Lymia> You're crazy
L583[19:40:09] ⇦ Quits: Turtle (~SentientT@ip5657cbb2.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
L584[19:49:50] <SolraBizna> oh, never mind, good, phew, it's not virtualizable
L585[19:51:02] <SolraBizna> if I do `ADC $some_address` and that is privileged, then there's nothing the MMU can do to prevent A and the status flags from changing before the NMI occurs
L586[19:52:07] <gamax92> SolraBizna: the mmu could give it a false value though
L587[19:52:32] <SolraBizna> if I return #0, then 1 can still get added and the carry can still get clobbered
L588[19:53:06] <SolraBizna> if I knew ahead of time what the carry flag was...
L589[19:55:21] <SolraBizna> you can still do memory mapping, COW, and stuff, just nothing that requires being able to stop a read and substitute a value of your choosing
L590[19:59:13] <Lymia> Why not?
L591[19:59:55] <Lymia> hrm
L592[20:00:06] <Lymia> You can probably define a syscall mechanism that switches the memory space entirely
L593[20:00:40] <SolraBizna> BRK will bump you into Supervisor mode, with the Supervisor memory map in effect
L594[20:04:51] <Lymia> So why isn't it virtulizable
L595[20:05:14] <Lymia> Just do away with privileged memory regions
L596[20:05:24] <Lymia> And use that mechanism exclusively for security
L597[20:05:29] <SolraBizna> I am confused
L598[20:05:51] <SolraBizna> There is no way I can present a User mode program with a simulated view of bank 0
L599[20:06:18] <SolraBizna> say the user code did: ADC #$250
L600[20:06:24] <SolraBizna> ...without the #
L601[20:06:32] <SolraBizna> and $250 was an IO port that I wanted to emulate
L602[20:06:52] <SolraBizna> by the time the MMU can do anything to stop the instruction from executing, the CPU has already committed to adding *something*
L603[20:09:03] <SolraBizna> ...fool am I
L604[20:09:11] <SolraBizna> I can totally fake that
L605[20:09:51] <SolraBizna> nope, still breaks if the accumulator contained $FF
L606[20:12:36] <SolraBizna> I can't think of any cases where an internal write subsequent to the read will make the instruction non-repeatable, except ADC with the specific case of A=$FF and C=1
L607[20:12:41] <SolraBizna> (and the corresponding SBC case)
L608[20:13:16] <SolraBizna> If that's the only thing that breaks, that's probably good enough in practice
L609[20:13:44] <SolraBizna> I'm also falling asleep at my keyboard, so who knows what I'm even saying
L610[20:15:44] <SolraBizna> and then software can detect the resulting A=0 C=1 and fix it up
L611[20:15:52] <SolraBizna> so it actually is virtualizable again @_@
L612[20:21:59] <Izaya> Thought: Phone screens should be wider so you get the full 16:9 screen space and the button bar
L613[20:26:33] <Antheus> yes
L614[20:26:41] <Antheus> I would love a 16:9 ratio
L615[20:28:02] <Izaya> Either that or we should go back to hardware Switch/Home/Back buttons
L616[20:28:09] <Izaya> Either way, 16:9 for actual use
L617[20:30:17] <SolraBizna> Lymia: actually, here's a good reason
L618[20:30:56] <SolraBizna> since this is for OpenComputers, the safety net is important, for learning purposes
L619[20:37:16] <Lymia> ... how is it a safety net if userspace can get munged anyway
L620[20:37:28] <SolraBizna> ?????
L621[20:38:49] <SolraBizna> Unless the Supervisor code maps bank 0 writably to userspace, User mode has no power without Supervisor mode's cooperation
L622[20:43:04] <gamax92> FLIF is such a neat image format
L623[20:44:12] <gamax92> http://cloudinary.com/blog/compressing_cellular_automata
L624[20:46:01] * Izaya supports 65OC02 for reference
L625[20:46:26] <SolraBizna> if only it had been spelled right in the straw poll
L626[21:09:06] <SolraBizna> I'm really glad I don't have to build this MMU for real
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L629[21:28:22] <S3> SolraBizna: why
L630[21:28:28] <SolraBizna> because it's complicated
L631[21:28:31] <S3> ?
L632[21:28:32] <S3> what MMU
L633[21:28:59] <S3> the MMU idea for my 6502 setup is super easy to implement
L634[21:29:01] <SolraBizna> https://bunker.tejat.net/private/public/ocmosmap/
L635[21:32:32] <S3> SolraBizna: too complicated
L636[21:32:35] <S3> an MMU doesn't need to do that
L637[21:32:36] <S3> :P
L638[21:32:44] <SolraBizna> this one does
L639[21:32:51] <SolraBizna> the one I actually get to build does not
L640[21:32:57] <SolraBizna> (and is just made of four 74xx chips)
L641[21:34:29] <S3> so what is this mmu for?
L642[21:34:47] <SolraBizna> the one I linked you is for my OpenComputers 65C02
L643[21:35:13] <S3> oh
L644[21:35:28] <S3> see my MMU for the 6502 ONLY does memory mapping
L645[21:35:34] <S3> you have a memory map table
L646[21:35:36] <S3> that's it
L647[21:35:38] <SolraBizna> on real systems, that's pretty much all you need
L648[21:35:59] <S3> well on a 6502 all I care about is that I can change the memory mapo
L649[21:36:07] <S3> because non contiguous memory is retarded.
L650[21:37:20] <SolraBizna> now I just imagined having a very fast 256KiB SRAM that maps each 6502 memory address to a 32-bit bus address
L651[21:37:29] <SolraBizna> that would be such a pain to use
L652[21:43:33] <SolraBizna> even though I did all this work, I think I need to throw out the User mode idea completely
L653[21:59:41] <gamax92> SolraBizna: I'm not sure why you did it anyway
L654[22:02:12] <gamax92> ahh, found my 65C816 code
L655[22:02:18] <SolraBizna> Probably because the medication I took last night is impairing my ability to make good decisions
L656[22:06:19] *** cbcercas|AFK is now known as cbcercas
L657[22:10:08] <GreaseMonkey> a suitable MMU for a 6502 would be, erm... how much RAM do you want?
L658[22:10:46] <GreaseMonkey> thinking maybe the top nybble of the "virtual" address could provide 16 4KB pages
L659[22:10:56] <gamax92> 4KB works out nicely
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L661[22:11:14] <GreaseMonkey> easiest option would be to provide 8 bits of physical address selection, leaving 12+8=20 bits = 1MB
L662[22:11:21] <GreaseMonkey> but you could easily chuck in another 8
L663[22:11:30] <GreaseMonkey> leaving 256MB of physical addressing
L664[22:11:56] <GreaseMonkey> and all it takes is 32 bytes (2 bytes per page,16 pages)
L665[22:12:07] <SolraBizna> my real mapper can remap $8000-BFFF to any of 256 banks
L666[22:12:09] <GreaseMonkey> as for memory protection, well, maybe another byte for each
L667[22:12:20] <GreaseMonkey> protip, have two banks
L668[22:12:20] <gamax92> I forget how much memory Computronics memory module is
L669[22:12:27] <GreaseMonkey> well, two or three, maybe even four
L670[22:12:37] <GreaseMonkey> just so you can copy linear regions which cross a page boundary
L671[22:12:56] <gamax92> ahh right that's why I was having issues
L672[22:13:08] <gamax92> the block moving stuff whatever in my 65c816 core is not implemented
L673[22:14:11] <GreaseMonkey> tbh $Fxxx is probably a better place to put the fixed bank
L674[22:14:25] <SolraBizna> because MVN/MVP are the most difficult-to-understand instructions in WDC history?
L675[22:14:40] <SolraBizna> GreaseMonkey: better than...?
L676[22:14:47] <GreaseMonkey> $0xxx
L677[22:14:55] <GreaseMonkey> remapping the zero page is useful
L678[22:15:04] <gamax92> (as well as other things.)
L679[22:15:08] <GreaseMonkey> although it could be good to make it possible to have $E and $F "sticky", but possible to drop the "stickiness" of $F and have that remappable
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L681[22:15:15] <SolraBizna> if you're referring to OCMOS, bank 0 isn't remappable in supervisor mode because then you could easily map yourself out of ever accessing the registers again
L682[22:15:31] <GreaseMonkey> ah right, user mode has it mappable
L683[22:15:31] <gamax92> where do you map the eeprom then?
L684[22:15:49] <SolraBizna> the ROM is mapped to $Fxxx during supervisor reads if the appropriate flag bit is set
L685[22:15:49] <gamax92> since that's going to be your initial code likely and the vectors have to be at the top of memory
L686[22:16:11] <SolraBizna> that's separate from the other memory mapping logic so a loader can "write through"
L687[22:16:20] <SolraBizna> like the SPC700 IPL ROM
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L690[22:36:23] <SolraBizna> why did I agree to this anyway?
L691[22:43:01] <Izaya> I'm going to guess because it seemed like an interesting challenge
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L696[23:36:18] <SolraBizna> How long have Drives had readByte/writeByte methods?
L697[23:38:12] <gamax92> since they existed
L698[23:38:25] <SolraBizna> Well, phooey.
L699[23:38:38] <gamax92> ?
L700[23:39:05] <SolraBizna> It seems like easy mode to me.
L701[23:39:14] <SolraBizna> (And I'm grumpy because I never noticed it before.)
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