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L7[00:17:13] <XtCrAvE> full blown irc client in a computer in minecraft, I know I'm way late to the party, but still blown away
L8[00:21:20] <Xal> k
L9[00:21:39] <Xal> do you want to be more blown away
L10[00:22:51] <Temia> Add a computronics self-destruct card to the computer :>
L11[00:22:57] <Xal> https://i.imgur.com/oR6dzVE.png
L12[00:22:58] * Temia badumtissh
L13[00:23:26] <Xal> alternative architectures are wonderful things
L14[00:27:17] <XtCrAvE> that would do it I suppose
L15[00:28:11] <Xal> how would you like to run minecraft in minecraft? now you can!
L16[00:28:29] <Xal> you'll have to wait about 30 minutes to get to a bash prompt, but pfft
L17[00:29:00] <Xal> GreaseMonkey: JIT for mips when
L18[00:29:07] <GreaseMonkey> OCMIPS? never.
L19[00:29:33] <GreaseMonkey> in the meantime i'm watching a clown screw around on the bridge
L20[00:29:40] <GreaseMonkey> on an SS13 server
L21[00:31:31] <Temia> Ooh, which build?
L22[00:32:02] <GreaseMonkey> paradise
L23[00:51:57] <Xal> bleh
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L25[01:37:52] ⇨ Joins: Trangar (~Trangar@249-153-145-85.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
L26[01:43:16] <XtCrAvE> I'd be happy with screen or tmux ;)
L27[01:43:59] <XtCrAvE> although all of this is awesome
L28[01:45:15] <Xal> just run linux on oc-mips
L29[01:45:23] <Xal> you can have all the tmux you'd like
L30[01:45:52] <Izaya> I might need to do loonix on ocmips at some point
L31[01:46:03] <Izaya> :3 compile systemd for it
L32[01:47:09] <Xal> i'd just like to inteject
L33[01:47:14] <Xal> interject*
L34[01:47:24] <Xal> GNU/systemd
L35[01:51:17] <Izaya> sorry
L36[01:51:19] <Izaya> systemd/GNU
L37[01:51:26] <Izaya> the GNU system is smaller than the systemd component
L38[01:52:09] <None> loonix on ocmips...
L39[01:53:57] <Xal> breaking news: systemd ends rein of GNU/linux, fully integrates linux kernel and KDE into systemd. there will be no escape from systemd's everlasting dynasty. BOW DOWN TO THE POWER OF SYSTEMD
L40[01:54:34] <Xal> gentoo devs executed for resisting systemd takeover
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L42[01:58:04] <Izaya> BSD developers burned at the steak for heresy
L43[01:58:46] <None> void linux (uses runit and libressl lol)
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L46[02:22:13] <Inari> "Two Hands are not always better than one" - Unnamed Lewd Person
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L50[02:51:50] <Forecaster> 6h left
L51[02:52:05] <Forecaster> I imagine the sub-sections in factory 3 are going to be extremely expensive as well
L52[03:04:56] ⇨ Joins: theFox (webchat@pool-72-82-58-229.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net)
L53[03:05:04] <theFox> long time no see, what's up guys?
L54[03:05:35] <None> Discord notifications on linux conveniently omit the <username> part
L55[03:06:07] <theFox> well, that loks like an interetsing failure..
L56[03:06:19] ⇨ Joins: Mettaton_Fab (~OyVey@p4FC72DFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
L57[03:06:44] <Mettaton_Fab> oi.
L58[03:07:01] <theFox> yo
L59[03:07:10] <Forecaster> godammit, my script still parses messages with <tag>'s in them wrong
L60[03:07:30] <theFox> oh holy crap.. your name was literally none... i thought the username was not being relayed..
L61[03:09:55] <theFox> hmm, Malam perlahan ...
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L63[03:10:27] <Izaya> None: Solution: don't use Discord
L64[03:10:29] <Izaya> :3
L65[03:10:50] <theFox> that would work...
L66[03:10:56] <theFox> also, Hello Izaya
L67[03:11:57] <Forecaster> that's a stupid solution
L68[03:12:19] <Mettaton_Fab> how the doot do i stop discord from starting at system start?
L69[03:12:48] <Izaya> hai theFox
L70[03:13:08] <Izaya> TheCryptek left you a lot of notifications I think
L71[03:13:42] <theFox> why do i not doubt that... i feel like crap bc it seems like i am ignoring him...
L72[03:14:33] <Forecaster with spaces> Spaces
L73[03:14:48] <Izaya> check your status window, MichiBot should've recorded and replayed them
L74[03:15:14] <theFox> i already checked, that's why i said i think they failed to go through
L75[03:15:32] <theFox> Michibot it's case sensitive, right?
L76[03:15:41] <Izaya> oh
L77[03:15:42] <Izaya> dunno
L78[03:17:37] <theFox> so, what've you been up to?
L79[03:18:26] <Izaya> I put computers into Minetest
L80[03:19:01] <Forecaster> Yay, my script should handle <tags> properly now
L81[03:19:09] <Forecaster> yay for regex
L82[03:19:19] <Izaya> oh no
L83[03:19:25] <Izaya> don't parse XML with regex
L84[03:19:53] <Forecaster> I'm parsing messages from Corded
L85[03:19:58] <theFox> Minetest?
L86[03:20:08] <Forecaster> I don't xml
L87[03:20:35] <Izaya> open-source Minecraft clone with most of the content written in Lua and the ability to easily add more as mods
L88[03:21:12] <Temia> Oho? Interesting.
L89[03:21:17] <theFox> open source... MC... Lua Driven... this sounds... like a mix between good and bad. but very interesting
L90[03:21:43] <Izaya> It has some issues
L91[03:21:47] <theFox> are you working on it? or is a community thing?
L92[03:21:49] <Izaya> and the base game sorta lacks most content
L93[03:22:01] <Izaya> ie mobs
L94[03:22:06] <Izaya> but there's mods for most of this stuff
L95[03:22:15] <theFox> well, that's the point of open source, imo. A platform is supplied, and others build off it.
L96[03:22:17] <Temia> So it's about where early Creative is.
L97[03:22:31] <Izaya> http://www.minetest.net/
L98[03:22:50] <Izaya> It's more to look at as an engine with example content that everything builds on than a game on its own
L99[03:23:00] <Izaya> Temia: I'd say more like indev
L100[03:23:19] <Izaya> It has the more complicated inventory and crafting features, but not really mobs and stuff in the base game
L101[03:23:20] <Temia> Alright.
L102[03:23:26] <Izaya> also it has infinite worlds with nice generation
L103[03:23:28] <theFox> wow
L104[03:23:50] <theFox> just skimmed the link.
L105[03:24:09] <theFox> how are your computers coming?
L106[03:24:29] <Izaya> uh
L107[03:24:38] <Izaya> well they're about as useful as a PDP-8
L108[03:24:53] <Izaya> but they're stack machines rather than single accumulator machines
L109[03:25:18] <Izaya> both have 8 instructions and 12-bit words though
L110[03:26:08] <theFox> soo, assembler?
L111[03:26:25] <Izaya> ofc
L112[03:26:32] <Izaya> I tend to write machine code though
L113[03:26:37] <Izaya> There's literally 12 opcodes
L114[03:26:41] <Izaya> s/12/8
L115[03:26:41] <MichiBot> <Izaya> There's literally 8 opcodes
L116[03:27:15] <Izaya> https://github.com/XeonSquared/test3d
L117[03:28:04] <theFox> the commands you implemented could be used for quite a bit though.
L118[03:28:28] <Izaya> exactly
L119[03:28:32] <Izaya> minimum useful
L120[03:28:47] <theFox> i would LOVE... to see someone magically concact a graphical OS with what you have there... XD
L121[03:28:49] <Izaya> also anything that isn't an instruction is pushed to the stack
L122[03:28:57] <Izaya> hahaha
L123[03:29:03] <Izaya> with 16-word memory modules?
L124[03:29:20] <theFox> i said magically... ;)
L125[03:29:55] <Izaya> well I do eventually want to have it so you can add memory modules together up to 256b
L126[03:29:56] <theFox> any chance of an eventual port to MC? or just sticking with MT?
L127[03:30:04] <Izaya> Eh, don't want to learn Java
L128[03:30:17] <Izaya> all the infrastructure like digilines is minetest only, anyway
L129[03:31:25] <theFox> i thought you knew Java... i really thought you were one of the people that rediculed me for not knowing it as well as i should... guess not
L130[03:32:04] *** theFox is now known as TheFox
L131[03:32:15] <TheFox> that... is why i didn't trigger michibot... i think
L132[03:32:18] <TheFox> yup!
L133[03:33:09] <TheFox> TheCryptek: welp, i'm here for now! you can grab my via skype in the later AM hours. and keep in mind, PST for me. sooo i might not reply to your messages to fast.
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L135[03:33:36] <TheFox> Izaya: tempted to download MT just so i can mess around with your mod.
L136[03:37:11] <Izaya> It's nice
L137[03:37:17] <Izaya> all the mods are on some form of git
L138[03:37:30] <Izaya> so I have a script that runs like 10 copies of git pull on all the folders in my mod repo
L139[03:38:13] <TheFox> so it just pulls all the mods in, and keeps'm up to date?
L140[03:39:36] <Izaya> yup
L141[03:39:44] <Izaya> s/mod repo/mod folder
L142[03:39:44] <MichiBot> <Izaya> so I have a script that runs like 10 copies of git pull on all the folders in my mod folder
L143[03:40:08] <TheFox> that... was the part that was confusing me, it took a few times for me to see you meant folder. i was thinking you were forking all the mods for MT.
L144[03:41:32] <Izaya> also
L145[03:41:42] <Izaya> you don't need to download mods prior to connecting to a server
L146[03:41:44] <Izaya> so that's nice
L147[03:41:50] <Izaya> also mods only contain a server portion
L148[03:41:54] <Izaya> (it's complicated)
L149[03:42:16] <Izaya> (no it's actually not, just the GUIs are a fairly simple text-based specification)
L150[03:44:39] <TheFox> so, the server installs the mods auto? or is that your script doing it
L151[03:45:29] <Izaya> uh
L152[03:45:39] <Izaya> your client downloads the media from the server
L153[03:45:42] <Izaya> ie textures and sounds
L154[03:45:55] <TheFox> that's what i thought. I wish MC would use that mechanic...
L155[03:46:04] <Izaya> and the logic runs on the server
L156[03:47:13] <TheFox> yet again, i really wish MC would use this mechanic XD
L157[03:48:09] <Izaya> hey
L158[03:48:12] <Izaya> don't wish too hard
L159[03:48:17] <Izaya> the GUI system sorta sucks
L160[03:50:33] <TheFox> laggish?
L161[03:50:40] <Izaya> no as in
L162[03:50:42] <Izaya> when it's open
L163[03:50:45] <Izaya> it can't be updated
L164[03:50:54] <Izaya> and it really is only designed to be used for inventories
L165[03:51:04] <Izaya> they intend to replace it by v1 but y'know
L166[03:53:15] <TheFox> wow...
L167[03:53:20] <TheFox> just... wow.
L168[03:53:42] <TheFox> so, your mod won't work on servers rn, bc of interface?
L169[03:54:09] <Izaya> no no
L170[03:54:13] <Izaya> it works
L171[03:54:18] <Izaya> and also singleplayer is a server ofc
L172[03:54:26] <Izaya> but I don't have a GUI that updates
L173[03:54:35] <Izaya> I can access memory and stuff fine
L174[03:54:41] <Izaya> and I can use I/O fine
L175[03:54:51] <Izaya> I just can't have ie an OC-style monitor GUI
L176[03:56:12] <Izaya> so I have to use stuff like nixie tubes and digiline switches
L177[03:56:28] <TheFox> i was actually... literally getting ready to ask that.
L178[03:56:58] <Izaya> there's a nixie tube mod
L179[03:57:03] <Izaya> and it works when memory-mapped
L180[03:57:09] <Izaya> reading from it is a little screwy
L181[03:57:13] <Izaya> but writing is fine
L182[03:58:27] <TheFox> the whole concept of tubes seems a little "screwy" to me... -_-
L183[03:58:45] <Izaya> why?
L184[03:59:42] <TheFox> forgive my next answer....
L185[03:59:54] <TheFox> that's a good question...
L186[04:00:33] <Izaya> :P
L187[04:00:43] <Izaya> they're nice and very satisfying to look at
L188[04:01:35] <TheFox> i won't deny.... they are satisfying to look at, yes.
L189[04:01:54] <Izaya> the mod has 16-segment nixie tubes
L190[04:02:05] <Izaya> so you can do the whole ASCII set
L191[04:03:17] <TheFox> ever just played around, for fun with them?
L192[04:05:52] <Izaya> Not real ones
L193[04:06:29] <TheFox> i meant the mod.
L194[04:07:05] <Izaya> well yeah
L195[04:07:19] <Izaya> my first test of test3d was actually a loop to increment the value of one of the tubes
L196[04:08:12] <TheFox> dim, bright, brighter, *boom*
L197[04:08:51] <Izaya> also the real ones have the most satisfying shape of the numbers
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L199[04:10:02] <TheFox> lol
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L202[04:57:41] <Mettaton_Fab> Nixie tubes have a very nice glow to them, which attracts vintage collectors.
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L211[07:09:19] <MGR> welp, I tried to setup livestreaming yesterday, and instead demolished the graphics driver for my HD 530 graphics
L212[07:09:22] <MGR> GG MGR
L213[07:09:23] <MGR> GG
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L215[07:27:16] <Inari> http://static.zerochan.net/Taneshima.Popura.full.812523.jpg
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L217[07:45:11] <20kdc> Mettaton_Fab: Trying to equate vintage collectors to moths?
L218[07:45:29] <Mettaton_Fab> pretty much, yes.
L219[07:48:25] <Mettaton_Fab> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Floppy_Disk_Drive_SDF-321B.jpg/220px-Floppy_Disk_Drive_SDF-321B.jpg
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L285[08:44:38] <MGR> @Kodos are you there?
L286[08:44:43] <MGR> does anyone know how to use ytdl?
L287[08:44:50] <MGR> the oppm program?
L288[08:57:16] ⇦ Quits: CookingApple (~ChJees@217-212-206-126-no62.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 384 seconds)
L289[08:59:58] <Forecaster> if you yell at it for long enough it'll probably start doing what you want
L290[09:00:18] * DaMachinator yells at FactoryIdle to magically double his income
L291[09:00:33] <Forecaster> 26 minutes until factory 3
L292[09:00:56] * DaMachinator is closing in on wasteless plastic
L293[09:01:18] <DaMachinator> it will be under an hour...
L294[09:01:59] <DaMachinator> i've upgraded my labs far enough that they use 16 samples per operation
L295[09:02:06] <DaMachinator> 87 RP/t
L296[09:03:04] <MGR> Forecaster, nah
L297[09:03:17] <MGR> DaMachinator, electronics is top notch
L298[09:03:35] <MGR> One area in kilofactory makes more than my entire regular factory output
L299[09:03:38] <DaMachinator> ~48 minutes
L300[09:03:55] <DaMachinator> MGR: I've filled the entire regular factory with electronics production
L301[09:04:14] <DaMachinator> Kilofactory has only science
L302[09:04:42] <DaMachinator> and loses me ~$3.75k per tick
L303[09:05:16] <DaMachinator> it appears 1 science is worth 43 dollars
L304[09:05:54] <MGR> cool
L305[09:06:19] <DaMachinator> according to Time Travel I earn 4.26 billion per 3 hours
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L308[09:30:34] <MGR> really though
L309[09:30:39] <MGR> does anyone know how to use ytdl?
L310[09:30:47] <MGR> do I have to put in the youtube URL, or do something else?
L311[09:31:13] <gamax92> what are you currently doing?
L312[09:32:02] <MGR> ohhhhhh
L313[09:32:08] <MGR> magik6k's service is down
L314[09:32:23] <MGR> gamax92, I'm trying to play darude sandstorm on 8 floppy drives through ytdl
L315[09:32:54] <MGR> ytdfl couldn't do it, so I went to Magik6k's site
L316[09:32:55] <MGR> http://www.youtube-mp3.org/
L317[09:33:01] <MGR> and it says the service is down
L318[09:33:09] <MGR> which is why I think ytdl won't work
L319[09:33:55] <gamax92> you didn't answer my question btw
L320[09:34:45] <gamax92> how are you currently trying to call the program
L321[09:36:53] <MGR> gamax92, from the shell?
L322[09:37:01] <MGR> ytdl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFmC7hd1hno
L323[09:37:02] <MichiBot> Darude - Sandstorm on Eight Floppy Drives | length: 4m 19s | Likes: 32,559 Dislikes: 502 Views: 2,259,594 | by MrSolidSnake745 | Published On 18/8/2014
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L325[09:39:03] <gamax92> yeah magik's site is misconfigured, it gives a 403
L326[09:41:17] <MGR> gamax92, yeah ?
L327[09:46:15] *** InariWB is now known as Inari
L328[09:46:19] <gamax92> hey Vexatoa
L329[09:46:27] <Vexatos> Hi
L330[09:46:44] <DaMachinator> MGR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N76RMIR1kCc
L331[09:46:44] <MichiBot> What if Mozart had a printer - PRINTING Nachtmusik [HD] | length: 6m 7s | Likes: 866 Dislikes: 3 Views: 73,147 | by Midi Desaster | Published On 2/11/2014
L332[09:48:33] <gamax92> Vexatos: I have an idea for the sound card
L333[09:48:49] <Vexatos> :O
L334[09:48:49] <gamax92> it's going to ... sound great :>
L335[09:48:53] <Vexatos> har
L336[09:48:54] <Vexatos> har
L337[09:49:31] <gamax92> but yeah I thought of something, going to see if it works and then will post back
L338[09:50:49] <Forecaster> Megafactory: http://i.imgur.com/hj3XfPS.png
L339[09:55:44] <DaMachinator> wasteless plastic get!
L340[09:56:15] <MGR> wow
L341[09:59:57] <Vexatos> gamax92, all I can say
L342[09:59:57] <Vexatos> <Vexatos> anyways
L343[09:59:57] <Vexatos> <Vex
L344[10:00:11] <Vexatos> <Sangar> sounds like a sound plan
L345[10:00:13] <Vexatos> :⁾
L346[10:01:36] <DaMachinator> so now we're making sound puns?
L347[10:02:32] <Vexatos> Sound puns became boring when Audacity became popular :P
L348[10:04:31] <Inari> Forecaster: Funnily the only thing getting bigger about them appears ot be the pricing
L349[10:08:20] <gamax92> Inari: buy the exact same plot of land for 5 trillion more! it has a better scenic view and is surrounded by grass!
L350[10:12:36] <20kdc> Well, the idea is sound.
L351[10:22:49] <Forecaster> it's nice and open, with good connections between the buildings
L352[10:35:57] ⇨ Joins: MajGenRelativity (~MajGenRel@c-50-136-14-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
L353[10:47:29] <S3> Izaya: do you have a license for multice?
L354[10:50:30] ⇨ Joins: Sax (kiwiirc@c-311ee253.031-26-74686e1.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
L355[10:50:38] <Sax> Hello.
L356[10:50:52] <Forecaster> hi
L357[10:51:36] <Sax> So, I searched everywhere, and I literally can't find any documentation on how the linked cards work, nor the navigation upgrade. Like the most basic thing, how do I define the navigation library? local nav = require("navigation") doesn't work.
L358[10:51:53] <Sax> Sorry if I sound hostile, but I really tried my best before coming in and asking stupid questions.
L359[10:52:22] <Forecaster> http://ocdoc.cil.li/component:navigation
L360[10:52:32] <MajGenRelativity> Sax, for navigation, do local component = require("component")
L361[10:52:39] <Forecaster> have you read this?
L362[10:52:43] <MajGenRelativity> and then do local navigation = component.navigation
L363[10:52:49] <Sax> I have @forecaster and it didn't tell me how to call it.
L364[10:53:43] <Forecaster> have you listed the components to see what it's actually called?
L365[10:54:07] <Sax> so component works @MajGenRelativity
L366[10:54:10] <Sax> thanks.
L367[10:54:14] <MajGenRelativity> thank you
L368[10:54:18] <MajGenRelativity> as for linked cards
L369[10:54:25] <Sax> Now, is the linked cards' library called pipes?
L370[10:54:29] <MajGenRelativity> ~w tunnel
L371[10:54:29] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component:tunnel
L372[10:54:47] <MajGenRelativity> local linked = component.tunnel
L373[10:55:00] <MajGenRelativity> linked can be called whatever you feel like though
L374[10:55:27] <Sax> that much I understand, it was just I couldn't find any examples that just showed how to define them/call them.
L375[10:56:09] <Forecaster> they work the same as any other component
L376[10:56:24] <Forecaster> there's a lot of examples of that
L377[10:57:49] <Sax> Well, I saw them as libraries rather than components.
L378[10:59:23] <Sax> Thanks though
L379[10:59:51] <Sax> Another stupid question, how do I see the linked card's address without disassembling the thing it is in?
L380[11:00:05] <gamax92> component.tunnel.address
L381[11:00:15] <gamax92> also there's the components program
L382[11:01:17] <Sax> Thank you.
L383[11:01:23] <MajGenRelativity> Sax, just wondering, why do you need to know the linked card's address?
L384[11:01:45] <Sax> I made two pairs, and I might've missplaced which is connected to which
L385[11:02:04] <MajGenRelativity> ahh
L386[11:04:36] <Sax> if I understood correctly, they should have very similar addresses, if not the same?
L387[11:05:27] <Forecaster> uh, I think they may all have random addresses
L388[11:06:00] <Forecaster> a component is assigned an address when it's put in a computer or other device
L389[11:06:01] <Sax> hm
L390[11:06:40] <Forecaster> the best way to test is probably to put them all in a computer each, program them to respond to a signal in the same way, then use one to send that signal, and see which one lights up
L391[11:06:42] <S3> need a way to store itty bitty config data in the eeprom data segment.
L392[11:06:57] <SolraBizna> you have 256 bytes to work with
L393[11:07:01] <S3> I know
L394[11:07:11] <S3> that's the problem, storing a config file in that
L395[11:07:17] <S3> for the OCR switches
L396[11:07:54] <S3> now when you connect an OCR switch to an existing network they technically will give you the routes on the fly but not the routes from another network
L397[11:08:00] <S3> which you bordered
L398[11:08:16] <S3> so what do we have for storage options in a uC?
L399[11:08:37] <S3> just that 256 byte section and any free space in the EEPROM
L400[11:08:59] <S3> if my code is 3 KB that gives me a bit over 1 KB to store config which still isn't much
L401[11:10:34] <S3> for servers we can use disks
L402[11:10:36] <Sax> Thanks guys, I managed to test that they were linked.
L403[11:10:53] <SolraBizna> yay!
L404[11:11:01] <SolraBizna> S3: are you storing addresses in text form or in binary form?
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L406[11:11:09] <S3> binary
L407[11:11:20] <S3> which will save some space
L408[11:11:44] <S3> I just wish that uCs had like, say some sort of removable media slot
L409[11:11:51] <S3> with a small ammount of storage
L410[11:12:00] <S3> like a compact flash card would you know
L411[11:13:07] <S3> our other option is to allow a microcontrolelr to retrieve its' configuration from the network. Now, I expect people to run networks using server racks in OC
L412[11:13:19] <S3> but I would like people to be able to build simple networks with just microcontrollers
L413[11:13:34] <SolraBizna> Simple networks won't require much configuration
L414[11:13:43] <S3> you're right
L415[11:13:48] <SolraBizna> and edge nodes will want to be servers anyway for other reasons, I assume
L416[11:14:03] <S3> right
L417[11:14:06] <S3> especially ones with link cards
L418[11:14:22] <SolraBizna> at most, you'll probably only need to store a few edge node addresses in a given uC switch
L419[11:14:54] <Sax> Another stupid question, sorry if I'm intersecting in the current discussion but is there a way to control how fast a program runs without the use of os.sleep() ?
L420[11:15:00] <S3> each address is 128 bit
L421[11:15:26] <SolraBizna> Sax: os.sleep() / the os.pullEvent() timeout are the only good ways, if I recall
L422[11:15:38] <gamax92> os.pullEvent is CC
L423[11:15:41] * gamax92 slaps SolraBizna
L424[11:15:43] <S3> so that's 16 bytes per address, so not too bad
L425[11:15:51] <SolraBizna> I get confused because of computer.pullSignal...
L426[11:16:10] <gamax92> and you shouldn't call computer.pullSignal either you should be using event.pull
L427[11:16:24] <SolraBizna> that's the one
L428[11:16:39] <S3> yeah but event.pull is an OpenOS thing right?
L429[11:16:44] <SolraBizna> all I remember was "there's computer.pullSignal which you use if you don't have OpenOS, and ??????pull??? you use for OpenOS programs"
L430[11:16:50] <S3> yeah
L431[11:17:05] <gamax92> S3: oh, you can put a sign io upgrade in a microcontroller
L432[11:17:09] <SolraBizna> most of my event-based programs have either been daemons using event handlers, or freestanding programs
L433[11:17:09] <gamax92> so you could store data on signs
L434[11:17:13] <gamax92> (totally good solution)
L435[11:17:15] <S3> gamax92: LOL
L436[11:17:27] <S3> that's hilarious
L437[11:17:41] <S3> one thing I want to do is use a modem port for a serial console
L438[11:17:56] <S3> whatever you send to it goes directly into its shell and the output comes back
L439[11:18:09] <S3> this will allow you to technically chute config files at run time
L440[11:18:25] <gamax92> Vexatos: also ... you can apparently put Computronics camera in a microcontroller?
L441[11:18:38] <S3> that sounds weird gamax92
L442[11:18:39] <S3> heh
L443[11:18:51] <S3> I wonder what it takes pictures of
L444[11:18:54] <gamax92> depth
L445[11:19:03] <S3> yeah I've seen the results
L446[11:19:13] <S3> but in a uC...
L447[11:19:18] <gamax92> oh, yeah
L448[11:19:34] <S3> hey, look at all the chips!
L449[11:19:35] <S3> lol lol lol
L450[11:20:14] <S3> yes I think tftp liek support could be useful
L451[11:20:18] <S3> like*
L452[11:20:33] <S3> you can put the tftp boot params in the 256 byte data segment
L453[11:21:40] <S3> now, for a base network
L454[11:21:53] <S3> you could have one of your main OC computers host that tftp service
L455[11:22:57] <S3> in a trunk you can have a server host it
L456[11:24:08] <SolraBizna> OC component addresses on the raw network aren't spoofable[citation needed], so you could have the parameters stored on the server
L457[11:24:26] <S3> you can use vcomponent
L458[11:24:36] <S3> but they're still exposed
L459[11:24:40] <SolraBizna> I have no idea what that is
L460[11:24:53] <S3> although you could connect a relay and do vcomponent over a network
L461[11:24:59] <S3> it's a way to make your own fake components
L462[11:25:17] <SolraBizna> but that doesn't change the origin address of the network packets, does it?
L463[11:25:35] <S3> I believe the machines in the network would have to support it
L464[11:25:45] <S3> so it shouldn't be considered an issur
L465[11:25:46] <S3> issue*
L466[11:26:02] <S3> I'm trying to think of what absolutely has to be stored for config
L467[11:26:11] <S3> a list of link local IDs
L468[11:26:15] <S3> for every network you're a part of
L469[11:26:24] <S3> each is 16 bit
L470[11:26:25] <SolraBizna> 16 bits each
L471[11:26:29] <S3> yep
L472[11:27:08] <S3> you can store 128 of those in 256 bytes
L473[11:27:17] <S3> which isn't unreasonable, but there's gotta be more you'd need
L474[11:27:18] <SolraBizna> that is probably more than will be needed
L475[11:27:25] <S3> oh yes! for modems, the port which to listen on
L476[11:27:53] <S3> every switch in a network should be on the same port
L477[11:28:14] <S3> linked cards don't require this but uCs can't use em
L478[11:28:15] <SolraBizna> if you're participating in >100 separate local networks, you are probably not in a "low end" situation
L479[11:28:29] <S3> right
L480[11:28:32] <SolraBizna> wouldn't it be better to have a standard port for this?
L481[11:28:38] <S3> if you're participating in any more than 3.. likewise
L482[11:28:44] <S3> right
L483[11:28:56] <SolraBizna> I've always seen OC network ports as more like EtherTypes and less like TCP/UDP ports
L484[11:28:57] <S3> there will be a standard port
L485[11:29:16] <S3> not sure which everyone wants
L486[11:29:24] <SolraBizna> OETF #3 is/was going to use port 3 for Ethernet-over-OC
L487[11:29:43] <SolraBizna> and port 3333 for OC-over-UDP
L488[11:29:54] <S3> SolraBizna: I like your standard ports idea
L489[11:29:59] <S3> because this allows for dual stacked networks
L490[11:29:59] <SolraBizna> and EtherType 0x0C0C for OC-over-Ethernet
L491[11:30:01] <gamax92> and port 666 for OC-over-CC
L492[11:30:02] <S3> or more
L493[11:30:12] <SolraBizna> that would be the most appropriate port for that
L494[11:30:21] <S3> haha
L495[11:30:45] <S3> I personally don't care what port OCR uses
L496[11:30:52] <S3> but if you know of one you'd prefer, let me know
L497[11:30:56] <S3> to me it's just a number
L498[11:31:41] <SolraBizna> I think we should be using single-digit port numbers for protocols that use OC networks as a link layer
L499[11:32:21] <Skye> oo networking
L500[11:32:38] <Skye> I remember when I tried to do OC standards but my USB died
L501[11:32:40] <S3> I agree, the only problem i can see is somebody testing something with their weird program and using port 1 or 2 lazily
L502[11:32:43] <S3> where a network exists
L503[11:34:28] <S3> Skye: USB died? go for LSB!
L504[11:34:51] <Skye> S3, well
L505[11:34:56] <Skye> I used Linux on an SD card
L506[11:35:04] <Skye> which promptly corrupted everything
L507[11:35:14] <S3> SolraBizna: I can see a super good benefit for uCs with ISP like networks
L508[11:35:20] <S3> that netboot
L509[11:35:31] <S3> they can just be preconfigured by the network supervisor
L510[11:35:35] <S3> and given to people in their bases
L511[11:36:02] ⇦ Quits: MajGenRelativity (~MajGenRel@c-50-136-14-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
L512[11:36:06] <S3> Skye: never had a problem using Linux on an SD card.. :D
L513[11:36:17] <Skye> S3, I used an encrypted home drive
L514[11:36:22] <Skye> and the home drive got corrupted
L515[11:36:25] <S3> heh
L516[11:36:28] <S3> weird.
L517[11:37:30] <gamax92> #lua 512/4000
L518[11:37:30] <|0xDEADBEEF|> > 0.128
L519[11:37:37] <gamax92> ick.
L520[11:38:14] <S3> ?
L521[11:39:00] <SolraBizna> is port 0 usable?
L522[11:39:02] <gamax92> S3: it's not looking good.
L523[11:39:51] <Skye> SolraBizna, random opinion, if it is usable then it should be reserved. :P
L524[11:40:21] <SolraBizna> if it's usable, it should be reserved for OCRAnet
L525[11:40:37] <SolraBizna> and I should actually be using port 14 for Ethernet-over-OC (0xE)
L526[11:41:10] <Skye> what protocol are you deisgning exactly?
L527[11:41:11] <SolraBizna> the only thing that's stopped me from drafting OETF #3 is not knowing how OC switches work
L528[11:41:56] <Sax> Another dumb question, is it worth making a handshake function for linked cards?
L529[11:42:01] <S3> gamax92: what'd you do now?
L530[11:42:06] <SolraBizna> That depends on what you need the handshake for
L531[11:42:09] <gamax92> not give Vexatos resonable defaults
L532[11:42:14] <S3> oh lol
L533[11:42:27] *** cbcercas|AFK is now known as cbcercas
L534[11:42:27] <Sax> Making sure that the package is delivered.
L535[11:42:31] <Skye> who exactly started the OETF.
L536[11:42:34] <Sax> So like a tcp handshake.
L537[11:42:39] <SolraBizna> Then you probably should
L538[11:42:46] <SolraBizna> the link itself is reliable, but the computers at either end are not
L539[11:42:59] <Sax> yeah, especially since one is a tablet and the other is a robot.
L540[11:43:11] <SolraBizna> Skye: Lizzy made the forum, I think, and then after months of silence I posted OETF #1
L541[11:43:26] <gamax92> I'm going to just set the limit to infinity though.
L542[11:43:39] <S3> cool thing is
L543[11:43:43] <SolraBizna> and I really really should post OETF #2...
L544[11:43:50] <S3> there are plenty of protocol specs on how Ethernet over ATM works
L545[11:44:01] <gamax92> oh it's already 2147483647
L546[11:44:10] <S3> so Ethernet over Ocranet should be easily feasible too
L547[11:44:39] <SolraBizna> as the Grand Poobah for Life of the OETF, I would be interested in input from you about how that should work
L548[11:44:58] <SolraBizna> also, whenever you decide the protocol is stable enough, you should draft OETF #4 for it
L549[11:45:36] <S3> it will likely be a collection of 3 drafts
L550[11:45:44] <S3> I made OCR routing protocolo independent
L551[11:45:47] <SolraBizna> #4 - #6?
L552[11:45:54] <S3> so there will be OCR, OCR-NNR, and GERT...
L553[11:45:56] <S3> to start
L554[11:46:17] <S3> both OCR-NNR and GERT are extensions of OCR
L555[11:46:41] <gamax92> oh, I have to get an lfsr test
L556[11:46:41] <S3> plus there's alien routes
L557[11:46:58] <S3> which allow networks to cross eachother
L558[11:47:09] <S3> that use different routing protocols
L559[11:47:19] <Sax> Hm. I feel p. dumb, but how do you store a network packet that's catched by a event.listen("modem_message"), can you do local packet = event.listen("modem_message") and get a table with the contents ?
L560[11:47:21] <S3> (so OCR-NNR can pipe through a GERT trunk, vice versa)
L561[11:48:07] <gamax92> Sax: table.pack
L562[11:48:31] <gamax92> Sax: oh, do you want event.listen instead of event.pull?
L563[11:48:38] <Sax> yeah, I want to listen.
L564[11:49:11] <S3> SolraBizna: technically speaking.. the host part is 6 bytes, 48 bits, same as ethernet MAC. You can technically stuff an ethernet MAC in an OCR-NNR address.
L565[11:49:25] <gamax92> Sax: just incase there's confusion, event listeners sit in the background of your application while event.pull will cause you to wait until a modem_message appears and give you the data there
L566[11:50:13] <Sax> Hm. So, an event.listen will let the code below it run? If so, I'd be better of using event.pull for the handshake function.
L567[11:50:56] <gamax92> yes.
L568[11:51:06] <gamax92> Sax: either way have examples of using both: http://hastebin.com/onemiporax.lua
L569[11:51:30] <Sax> Thanks! That's exactly what I wanted.
L570[11:52:47] <MGR> Time for wasteless plastic!
L571[11:53:57] <Skye> SolraBizna, I think it was me who inspiried the original OETF, which was a "coming soon" webpage
L572[11:54:24] <Antheus> %weather
L573[11:54:25] <MichiBot> No data returned
L574[11:54:28] <Antheus> %weather 76020
L575[11:54:28] <MichiBot> Current weather for Azle, TX Current Temp: 22.3°F/-5.4°C Feels Like: 14°F/-10°C Current Humidity: 57% Wind: From the NW 7.0 Mph/11.3 Km/h Conditions: Partly Cloudy
L576[11:54:51] <Antheus> jfc it's cold
L577[11:57:36] <S3> SolraBizna: so I do intend to make the uCs use a port for serial console. maybe it should just be some high number port?
L578[11:57:43] <SolraBizna> yes
L579[11:58:08] <SolraBizna> it should be port 23
L580[11:58:13] <S3> LOL
L581[11:58:17] <S3> you're right
L582[11:58:27] <S3> that would be interesting
L583[11:58:42] <S3> there's also 513...
L584[11:58:43] <S3> heh heh
L585[11:58:46] <S3> rlogin
L586[11:58:52] <S3> man rlogin was awful
L587[11:58:55] <S3> 23 suits best
L588[12:00:10] <S3> so in the uC instead of storing in the config what device to use the serial console on I'd rather just have it listen on 23 on everything and just wait for you to connect to it and press enter or send ANYTHING
L589[12:00:16] <S3> and it would just activate the serial console
L590[12:00:32] <S3> however a user and password could be stored on the eeprom
L591[12:00:50] <SolraBizna> are you already putting data cards in your microcontrollers?
L592[12:01:03] <S3> nah, I honestly don't care about that part of security
L593[12:01:07] <S3> because it'd be plaintext
L594[12:01:20] <SolraBizna> tier 1 data card would let you "sign" messages with a shared secret
L595[12:03:04] <S3> could look into security for the future
L596[12:04:12] <SolraBizna> you should totally implement SRP6 in Lua :D
L597[12:04:33] <S3> in 4KB?
L598[12:04:37] <S3> with a network stack? nope..
L599[12:04:59] <SolraBizna> you can't fit a modular exponentiation library in 4KB?
L600[12:05:09] <SolraBizna> (I can't fit a modular exponentiation library in any amount of KB...)
L601[12:05:21] <S3> there's other stuff that needs to fit
L602[12:06:07] <S3> I also need to deal with interfaces. One of the problems I didn't go over in OCR-NNR
L603[12:06:08] <SolraBizna> when I needed to use SRP, I just used GMP and octupled the memory footprint of my library
L604[12:06:09] <S3> is interfaces
L605[12:06:17] <SolraBizna> that's obviously not an option for Lua
L606[12:06:40] <S3> in a server you could have a wireless lan card, an internet card, AND a linked card all in the same box
L607[12:06:50] <S3> so it appears we need one more route
L608[12:06:55] <S3> route phase*
L609[12:07:04] <S3> which is the UUID -> interface phase of routing
L610[12:07:10] <gamax92> I think the problem is that Lua is too verbose, and that we need a more effecient binary version of it
L611[12:07:23] <SolraBizna> deflated Lua is a possibility
L612[12:07:28] <S3> it would be nice if we could run compiled lua bytecode
L613[12:07:38] <gamax92> we need a bytecode decompiler
L614[12:07:40] <SolraBizna> there are good reasons not to do that
L615[12:07:41] <S3> if all the debug stuff could be stripped
L616[12:07:52] <gamax92> SolraBizna: no just slap a bytecode decompiler in OC
L617[12:08:05] <S3> I have thought of creating a VM in < 4KB
L618[12:08:06] <S3> for OC before
L619[12:08:11] <SolraBizna> now, there *are* architectures that natively have compact binaries...
L620[12:08:25] <gamax92> SolraBizna: then it's forced to go through the lua compiler and thus avoids the security issues
L621[12:08:33] <S3> you could make a lua compiler compile to OC bytecode
L622[12:08:35] <S3> that'd be weird
L623[12:08:37] <SolraBizna> there are portability issues as well
L624[12:08:42] <S3> and it'd be slow
L625[12:09:00] <gamax92> why aren't you listening :/
L626[12:09:12] <S3> I'm listening
L627[12:09:14] <gamax92> lua bytecode -> lua code -> lua bytecode
L628[12:09:23] <S3> why would you do that
L629[12:09:25] <gamax92> allows bytecode usage while not having malicious bytecode
L630[12:09:30] <S3> ...
L631[12:09:34] <SolraBizna> the main reason that has stopped *me* from using bytecode in real applications is that I actually do routinely switch between little- and big-endian architectures
L632[12:09:39] <gamax92> by forcing it to go through the lua compiler
L633[12:09:48] <SolraBizna> and, in the olden days, architectures with different word sizes
L634[12:10:03] <S3> SolraBizna: :D
L635[12:10:08] <gamax92> S3: fuck you.
L636[12:10:09] <S3> PowerPC and SPARC are bi-endian
L637[12:10:26] <S3> gamax92: what?
L638[12:10:28] <gamax92> I'll just PoC it then.
L639[12:10:32] <gamax92> if you think it's a silly idea.
L640[12:10:44] <SolraBizna> PowerPC is "bi-endian" in the sense of crazy XOR logic on the addresses of loads and stores
L641[12:10:52] <S3> gamax92: I'd be worried about performance and taking the time to compile this crap
L642[12:11:05] <S3> also I'm not sure how OC would even run this..
L643[12:11:17] <SolraBizna> unless you're talking about recent POWER, which nobody will be playing Minecraft on
L644[12:11:29] <S3> haha
L645[12:11:35] <S3> nobody with only 1$
L646[12:11:48] <S3> gimme a POWER 9
L647[12:11:59] <SolraBizna> gamax92: something like that, maybe
L648[12:12:03] <S3> gamax92: can we have an IBM POWER arch for OC?
L649[12:12:03] <S3> :D
L650[12:12:04] <SolraBizna> not necessarily native Lua bytecode
L651[12:12:16] <SolraBizna> just something machine-readable that compactly represents Lua code
L652[12:12:29] <SolraBizna> something made by parsing Lua code in an OC-specific, portable way, and which OC can unpack easily
L653[12:13:10] <S3> now
L654[12:13:15] <S3> if there was a Perl 5 architecture..
L655[12:13:29] <S3> you could golf 50KB worth of Lua code in 40 bytes.
L656[12:13:31] <S3> XD
L657[12:13:56] <S3> making microcontrollers.. no more of a problem
L658[12:14:10] <SolraBizna> it would be very useful to compare the size of Lua bytecode to the size of the deflated version of that source
L659[12:14:23] <DaMachinator> someone made a lua minifier
L660[12:14:30] <S3> yes
L661[12:14:39] <S3> I usean online minifier
L662[12:14:46] <SolraBizna> whitespace generally takes up only around 5% of a Lua program's size, if I remember my tests correctly
L663[12:14:54] <SolraBizna> deletable whitespace, anyway
L664[12:14:58] ⇨ Joins: Doty1154 (~Doty1154@2601:648:8000:134f:9149:e463:bdc9:7112)
L665[12:15:02] <S3> https://mothereff.in/lua-minifier <-- this is what I use
L666[12:15:12] <S3> and it lets me write I dunno 200 something lines of code in 4KB
L667[12:15:30] <S3> Izaya can do loike 500 lines in that though
L668[12:16:15] <S3> l
L669[12:16:29] <MGR> http://imgur.com/gallery/llCoE
L670[12:16:31] <SolraBizna> gamax92: so I just compiled 554 lines of Lua with luac, and compressed it with gzip
L671[12:16:40] <SolraBizna> the original code was 16K, the compiled code was 20K, the compressed code was 2.8K
L672[12:16:40] <MGR> Forecaster, DaMachinator, I'm going for wasteless plastic hardcore now
L673[12:16:54] <SolraBizna> so bytecode doesn't actually appear to be more compact
L674[12:17:21] <SolraBizna> it also compresses worse, ending up at 5.5K
L675[12:17:35] <S3> isn't luac 5.1 only?
L676[12:17:45] <SolraBizna> sbizna ~$ luac -v
L677[12:17:45] <SolraBizna> Lua 5.2.4 Copyright (C) 1994-2015 Lua.org, PUC-Rio
L678[12:17:47] <S3> or some bytecode compiler I found was..
L679[12:17:50] <S3> ah
L680[12:17:52] <S3> I usually use 5.3
L681[12:17:55] <SolraBizna> sbizna ~$ luac5.3 -v
L682[12:17:55] <SolraBizna> Lua 5.3.1 Copyright (C) 1994-2015 Lua.org, PUC-Rio
L683[12:18:00] <S3> ooh
L684[12:18:00] <SolraBizna> :)
L685[12:18:02] <S3> it's included
L686[12:18:05] <S3> ok that's nice
L687[12:18:13] <S3> I didn't realize it came with Lua
L688[12:18:27] <S3> problem is how do you run that bytecode in OC
L689[12:18:37] <SolraBizna> the purpose of bytecode isn't smaller files (apparently), it's faster loading and not having to include the parser on resource-constrained systems
L690[12:19:05] <S3> well I've been told luac stores a LOT of debug symbols
L691[12:19:12] <S3> and that you can somehow strip them out
L692[12:19:23] <S3> ]otherwise the compiled bytecode usually ends up larger
L693[12:19:30] <gamax92> SolraBizna: did you strip the bytecode?
L694[12:19:55] <SolraBizna> stripping the bytecode got it down to 12K
L695[12:19:57] <gamax92> otherwise you're basically just tacking the entire source code onto the bytecode too
L696[12:20:04] <SolraBizna> and the stripped compressed bytecode is 3.7K
L697[12:20:05] <S3> haha
L698[12:20:10] <SolraBizna> which is still not as small as just compressing the source
L699[12:20:22] <gamax92> but yeah compressing the code is probably going do better :P
L700[12:20:23] <DaMachinator> MGR: why only one lab
L701[12:20:26] <DaMachinator> I have 6
L702[12:20:36] <S3> wait..
L703[12:20:43] <S3> does the data card have any compression functions?
L704[12:20:50] <SolraBizna> it does
L705[12:20:54] <SolraBizna> it has deflate/inflate, at tier 1
L706[12:20:59] <S3> ok
L707[12:20:59] <DaMachinator> i believe the t2 data card has "deflate" and "inflate"
L708[12:21:01] <S3> how about this
L709[12:21:11] <S3> what if I make an eeprom booter that loads compressed eeprom code
L710[12:21:22] <S3> the eeprom would have a header loader
L711[12:21:29] <S3> and the rest is all free space for compressed lua
L712[12:21:31] <MGR> DaMachinator, why only one lab where?
L713[12:21:32] <gamax92> anyway, my idea failed, luadec doesn't work very well on bytecode without symbols
L714[12:21:46] <DaMachinator> MGR: in your factory?
L715[12:22:03] * DaMachinator looks at other factory
L716[12:22:08] <DaMachinator> Oh.
L717[12:22:09] <SolraBizna> let's all now compete to make the smallest compressed header
L718[12:22:13] <SolraBizna> *decompression
L719[12:22:20] <MGR> yeahh
L720[12:22:23] <S3> I am assuming by the history of compression used in OC for hard drives and stuff that the data card uses zlib?
L721[12:22:26] <MGR> Kilofactory is for making money mostly
L722[12:22:34] <S3> we could call it zflash
L723[12:22:46] <gamax92> SolraBizna: crunch will just spit out a small decompressor stub with lz77 or something
L724[12:22:52] <S3> flashes an eeprom with a data card powered zlib deflater and the stuff on your eeprom
L725[12:22:57] <gamax92> SolraBizna: also try zopfli for maximum compression
L726[12:23:13] <SolraBizna> are those things that are implemented in compact Lua, or things that are free because they're on the data card?
L727[12:23:31] <gamax92> Zopfli Compression Algorithm is a compression library programmed in C to perform very good, but slow, deflate or zlib compression.
L728[12:23:38] <gamax92> by google
L729[12:23:51] <SolraBizna> so this is for the compression side
L730[12:23:56] <S3> If I made zflash, I wonder if anyone would use it
L731[12:24:01] <SolraBizna> you would
L732[12:24:05] <SolraBizna> (I assume)
L733[12:24:07] <S3> I know I would for the uC
L734[12:24:09] <gamax92> S3: nobody uses anything anyway unless you're russian
L735[12:24:13] <S3> lol
L736[12:24:20] <gamax92> like ... probably two people will use the ocranet thing
L737[12:24:25] <S3> probably
L738[12:24:36] <S3> well
L739[12:24:40] <S3> Lizza says she's really interested
L740[12:24:41] <gamax92> but many will use all of the silly horribly optimized ECS programs over in the russian community
L741[12:24:44] <S3> Lizzy*
L742[12:26:16] <gamax92> also I wonder if you can train a neural net to be a decompiler
L743[12:27:41] <SolraBizna> https://tejat.net/eph/selfextract.txt <-- 62 bytes overhead, needs escapes for NUL, CR, LF, and runs of 2 or more ]
L744[12:27:49] <SolraBizna> ...and backslash, I guess
L745[12:28:10] <S3> I wonder how much compressed data I could fit into an eeprom like this..
L746[12:28:24] <SolraBizna> sorry, 64 bytes and pretend you didn't see the mis-parenthetized version
L747[12:28:28] <S3> oh shoot we have one problem
L748[12:28:44] <SolraBizna> let's assume for the sake of anti-science that my compression ratio holds for all Lua code
L749[12:28:46] <S3> oh nvm, I can put the compressed eeprom data in a heredoc!
L750[12:28:49] <S3> like so:
L751[12:28:58] *** cbcercas is now known as cbcercas|AFK
L752[12:29:03] <S3> data = [=[
L753[12:29:03] <S3> data
L754[12:29:04] <S3> ]=]
L755[12:29:17] <SolraBizna> %lua (4096 - 64) * 16034 / 2779
L756[12:29:32] * SolraBizna points at selfextract.txt
L757[12:29:37] <S3> uh
L758[12:29:43] <S3> be careful
L759[12:30:04] <vifino> S3: Wanna play a game of guess the fault/
L760[12:30:04] <S3> if order of operations is proper itl do multiplication first before that division
L761[12:30:06] <SolraBizna> as for my calculation, I'mma go to the other channel, where the Lua bot likes me :(
L762[12:30:13] <SolraBizna> yes, I know
L763[12:30:14] <vifino> S3: Wanna play a game of guess the fault?*
L764[12:30:14] <Sax> Hm
L765[12:30:14] <S3> vifino: what's that
L766[12:30:18] <SolraBizna> that will increase the likelihood of an exact result
L767[12:30:23] <vifino> It's a game I invented just now.
L768[12:30:28] <S3> oh?
L769[12:30:33] <SolraBizna> X * (Y / Z) = (X * Y) / Z
L770[12:30:36] <S3> Now who's fault is that?
L771[12:30:38] <Sax> so I'm making my handshake function between a robot and a tablet, but during my testing the tablets energy gets entirely drained.
L772[12:30:40] <vifino> You have to guess what the shit broke by doing X.
L773[12:30:51] <S3> LOL
L774[12:31:02] <S3> vifino: would you be interested in a program called zflash?
L775[12:31:04] <SolraBizna> in any case it came out to 23263 bytes
L776[12:31:13] <S3> which flashed an eeprom with a very tiny line line data card inflate loader
L777[12:31:18] <S3> and a heredoc of compressed lua code?
L778[12:31:30] <gamax92> SolraBizna: did you minimize the lua code before you compressed it?
L779[12:31:35] <SolraBizna> nope
L780[12:31:45] <SolraBizna> it'll make only a small difference, though
L781[12:31:54] <gamax92> are you sure.
L782[12:31:59] <SolraBizna> ~85%
L783[12:32:05] <SolraBizna> (that is, ~85% sure)
L784[12:32:08] <S3> I can also make the zflash program support minifying the source code though this site via http: https://mothereff.in/lua-minifier
L785[12:32:10] <S3> before compression
L786[12:32:18] <SolraBizna> since I'm dataing, I might as well actually check
L787[12:32:18] ⇨ Joins: Cervator (~Thunderbi@2601:4c1:4000:1050:e0f8:9a9a:5578:88db)
L788[12:32:44] <SolraBizna> ...well, page is nonfunctional without JavaScript
L789[12:32:46] ⇨ Joins: Wiiplay123 (~kvirc@adsl-72-154-27-119.bna.bellsouth.net)
L790[12:33:08] <SolraBizna> I'll use my own minifier instead
L791[12:33:24] <vifino> Given is an opened Thinkpad X230 Tablet, whose bios chip is uncovered and has been tried to read out with a cheap and shitty soic clamp and a raspberry pi. It doesn't turn on anymore. The BIOS chip may have been shorted due to the clamp while power was applied. Did the bios chip die, corrupt or did something else die?
L792[12:33:28] <vifino> S3:
L793[12:34:01] <SolraBizna> ...I can't find my minifier
L794[12:34:36] <gamax92> #lua 4096 * 4
L795[12:34:36] <|0xDEADBEEF|> > 16384
L796[12:34:42] <gamax92> #lua 4096 * 4 *60
L797[12:34:42] <|0xDEADBEEF|> > 983040
L798[12:35:22] <SolraBizna> well I'll be.
L799[12:35:41] <SolraBizna> #lua 2779 / 1876
L800[12:35:42] <|0xDEADBEEF|> > 1.4813432835821
L801[12:36:04] <SolraBizna> that was upside down
L802[12:36:04] <gamax92> SolraBizna: do you know where I can find 98k of text?
L803[12:36:08] <SolraBizna> #lua 1876 / 2779
L804[12:36:08] <|0xDEADBEEF|> > 0.67506297229219
L805[12:36:17] <SolraBizna> 67.5% improvement over just deflating
L806[12:36:30] <SolraBizna> er, ratio
L807[12:36:41] <SolraBizna> 100% - 67.5% improvement
L808[12:36:52] <S3> vifino: ooh! I have an X220!
L809[12:36:53] <SolraBizna> or is it a 48.1% improvement?
L810[12:36:59] <gamax92> #lua 2779 / 1876
L811[12:36:59] <|0xDEADBEEF|> > 1.4813432835821
L812[12:37:08] <S3> vifino: you can try this...
L813[12:37:22] ⇦ Quits: Wiiplay123 (~kvirc@adsl-72-154-27-119.bna.bellsouth.net) (Client Quit)
L814[12:37:25] <SolraBizna> #lua (4096 - 64) * 16034 / 1876
L815[12:37:25] <|0xDEADBEEF|> > 34461.134328358
L816[12:37:28] <S3> if you hold down the power button for about 45 seconds or so it shorts the cmos battery and resets the cmos eeprom
L817[12:37:36] <SolraBizna> so if all Lua code is like my test code, you can have a 34461K EEPROM
L818[12:37:39] <S3> that saved me once when I thought mine was dead for a day or so
L819[12:37:42] <SolraBizna> er, B
L820[12:37:49] <SolraBizna> 34K
L821[12:37:51] ⇨ Joins: Wiiplay123 (~kvirc@adsl-72-154-27-119.bna.bellsouth.net)
L822[12:38:00] <S3> I don't know if the battery has to be in or out
L823[12:38:02] <S3> or what
L824[12:38:48] <SolraBizna> subtract a little bit because any here-document-based loader will incur overhead for NUL, CR, LF, 2+ ]s, and \
L825[12:39:12] <SolraBizna> #lua (4+(1/256))/256
L826[12:39:12] <|0xDEADBEEF|> > 0.015640258789062
L827[12:39:22] <SolraBizna> about 1.6% overhead
L828[12:40:01] <gamax92> SolraBizna: lol, I decided to just copy and paste wikipedia's page for apple to get some text
L829[12:40:05] <gamax92> I see "This is a good article." at the beginning
L830[12:40:08] <gamax92> but it's not on the page
L831[12:42:08] <SolraBizna> S3/vifino: are we talking about Thinkpad CPR?
L832[12:42:25] <S3> yes
L833[12:42:37] <SolraBizna> what I was taught for my T60p, which has saved it from apparent death four times, was... unplug from wall, remove batteries, hold power for 30 seconds, press power once per second 30 times
L834[12:42:44] <S3> I've had so many thinkpads
L835[12:42:47] <SolraBizna> er, twice per second
L836[12:42:50] <S3> I had a T60 too heh
L837[12:43:09] <S3> I also have a 390 or whatever it is
L838[12:43:12] <S3> with a floppy drive in it
L839[12:43:16] <S3> (IBM Thinkpad)
L840[12:43:23] <S3> two r40s
L841[12:43:28] <S3> an r50, a T520..
L842[12:43:43] <S3> and the chassis of a T43 or whatever
L843[12:43:44] *** medsouz|offline is now known as medsouz
L844[12:44:49] <S3> I gotta head home
L845[12:44:53] <S3> 45 minute drive
L846[12:45:02] <S3> meh nvm
L847[12:45:06] <S3> gonna wait for phone to charge a bit
L848[12:46:20] <SolraBizna> https://tejat.net/eph/selfextract2.txt <-- 60 bytes!
L849[12:46:34] <SolraBizna> but it slightly pollutes the global environment
L850[12:47:00] <vifino> S3: what was the symptoms of the suspected deadness?
L851[12:47:03] <gamax92> SolraBizna: it's fine
L852[12:47:15] <vifino> when i turn mine on, the power light lights up for a second, then turns off
L853[12:48:00] <SolraBizna> that means at least the PMU (or whatever Lenovo calls it) is working
L854[12:48:03] <gamax92> SolraBizna: but did you test compression with zopfli
L855[12:48:06] <gamax92> :>
L856[12:48:06] <SolraBizna> in the sense of not fried
L857[12:48:24] <SolraBizna> gamax92: fine, but only because it's in the Debian repos :P
L858[12:48:41] <gamax92> oh, I didn't know that
L859[12:48:52] *** cbcercas|AFK is now known as cbcercas
L860[12:48:57] <vifino> SolraBizna: but i dont know if any of the eeproms are fine
L861[12:49:06] <vifino> not the bios one, not the intel ME one
L862[12:49:30] <S3> solid state components last forever vifino
L863[12:49:33] <S3> they're probbaly just fine
L864[12:49:43] <SolraBizna> these solid state components may have been subjected to out-of-spec voltages
L865[12:50:00] <S3> vifino: with my laptops? no symptoms, just dead wouldn't even try to boot
L866[12:50:10] <S3> I just helt the power button down for like 45 seconds and then called it good
L867[12:50:13] <S3> may have had the battery removed
L868[12:50:50] <vifino> i removed the rtc battery just now, should do the same
L869[12:51:10] <SolraBizna> maybe 10000 iterations was too many
L870[12:51:14] <gamax92> yes
L871[12:51:29] <SolraBizna> it did save a single bit on each of iterations 1597, 23364, and 7512
L872[12:51:44] <SolraBizna> *2364
L873[12:51:51] <SolraBizna> the one thing I hate about this Thinkpad is the keyboard
L874[12:52:13] <gamax92> even the default of 15 works better than gzip -9 usually
L875[12:52:37] <SolraBizna> 10000 is taking a minute or so per block
L876[12:53:24] <vifino> S3: now it does something slightly different, now both the wifi symbol and the power light turned on at the same time, instead of in sequence, wifi symbol first
L877[12:53:35] <vifino> still turns off after 1s
L878[12:54:02] <vifino> do you think the chip has a chance of still working and just being corrupt/
L879[12:54:09] <vifino> do you think the chip has a chance of still working and just being corrupt?&
L880[12:54:17] <vifino> dammit, this american keyboard layout is hard
L881[12:54:26] <S3> are you running this without the battery?
L882[12:54:32] <vifino> no, attached it again
L883[12:54:49] <SolraBizna> IMO, if it was damaged by the stray voltages as you fear, whatever chips were damaged were probably damaged beyond repair
L884[12:54:53] <SolraBizna> not just needing to be reflashde
L885[12:54:56] <SolraBizna> *reflashed
L886[12:55:12] <vifino> should all be withing the spec though
L887[12:55:17] <vifino> 3.3v max.
L888[12:55:26] <SolraBizna> 3.3V is not high enough to corrupt Flash
L889[12:55:47] <SolraBizna> ...actually, ignore me
L890[12:55:50] <SolraBizna> it can totally flip 0->1
L891[12:56:03] <Inari> flash is corrupt by default
L892[12:56:08] <gamax92> SolraBizna: gzip(9): 88546, zopfli(15): 84735, zopfli(100): 84700, zopfli(1000): 84674
L893[12:56:09] <SolraBizna> gamax92: hope you're happy, I'm screwing this browser session by opening Google Docs to make a spreadsheet
L894[12:56:17] <gamax92> ?
L895[12:56:25] <S3> gotta drive
L896[12:56:25] <SolraBizna> for the table of all the data I've just gathered
L897[12:57:14] <vifino> SolraBizna: yeah, i think the chance of me having killed it without even attaching external power are slim, only possibility would be having shorted things
L898[12:58:26] ⇨ Joins: OneM_Industries (~OneM_Indu@66.171.94.135)
L899[12:59:00] *** cbcercas is now known as cbcercas|AFK
L900[12:59:53] <gamax92> ... why can't I tab complete vifino
L901[13:00:26] <gamax92> wot ...
L902[13:02:01] <Inari> SolraBizna: "screwing this browser session"?
L903[13:02:20] <gamax92> for some reason vifino doesn't show up in my user list
L904[13:03:54] * vifino tab completes gamax92
L905[13:04:11] ⇨ Joins: ChJees (~ChJees@217-212-206-126-no62.tbcn.telia.com)
L906[13:04:12] <vifino> actually, i do not. i type it out.
L907[13:04:22] <vifino> well, except the numbers. no clue why.
L908[13:05:32] <gamax92> vifino: Well I remember the whole reason why the parallel port programmer works, you don't grab 3.3v from the parallel port you'll use a separate source
L909[13:05:46] <gamax92> like a 3.3v battery or a PSU line
L910[13:05:52] <Sax> Random question, does a robot with the navigation upgrade, know it's own rotation compared to north, south, west and east etc ?
L911[13:06:33] <vifino> yeah, i didn't use any external power at all, i just connected power to the thinkpad with WoL enabled, its a trick from a bios modder forum
L912[13:06:39] <SolraBizna> can't figure out sorting...
L913[13:06:50] <SolraBizna> Inari: I "only" have 1.5GiB of RAM
L914[13:07:19] <gamax92> that should work fine, Used to use a laptop on 1GiB of RAM
L915[13:07:30] <SolraBizna> try using Google Docs on that laptop today
L916[13:07:52] <gamax92> that would require me to swap out the memory or limit linux to test
L917[13:08:03] <gamax92> which I guess I do still have the old module
L918[13:09:24] <SolraBizna> Inari: and for whatever reason, when I access a "bad" website (like some tumblrs, or imgur, or Google Docs) my browser's CPU usage and memory usage goes nuts and never comes back
L919[13:09:42] <gamax92> what is your browser
L920[13:10:17] <vifino> mozarella firlofoxo?
L921[13:11:25] <SolraBizna> Firefox, ever since Debian killed Iceweasel
L922[13:11:36] <SolraBizna> I tried using Chrome when this laptop was new... baaaaaad idea
L923[13:12:17] <gamax92> netsurf :>
L924[13:12:36] <Sax> Rewording my former question: Is there a way for OC robots to know their facing direction in north, south etc?
L925[13:13:04] <SolraBizna> isn't there a compass upgrade?
L926[13:13:16] <Sax> yeah, navigation.
L927[13:13:24] <SolraBizna> gamax92/S3: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DxKSggEXJ0eWJ9jlvtA7V0uiejvpAkcQeYhIZOOkI0o/edit
L928[13:13:27] <gamax92> so ... use the nagivation upgrade :P
L929[13:13:29] <Sax> But it doesn't seem to care about it's rotation, but rather just position
L930[13:13:35] <SolraBizna> his question is does the navigation upgrade do what he wants
L931[13:13:38] <gamax92> yes
L932[13:13:58] <gamax92> ~w navigation
L933[13:13:58] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component:navigation
L934[13:13:59] <Sax> huh
L935[13:14:04] <Sax> it does actually
L936[13:14:04] <Sax> my b
L937[13:14:10] <gamax92> getFacing
L938[13:14:19] <SolraBizna> it's not in the spreadsheet, but gzip was making gzip files and zopfli was making deflate files
L939[13:14:19] <Sax> i even had two tabs of the navigation wiki article up :V
L940[13:14:20] <Sax> my b
L941[13:14:30] <SolraBizna> which means the gzip-compressed version would need to be converted
L942[13:14:44] <SolraBizna> saving maybe a dozen bytes
L943[13:15:50] <gamax92> I need to upgrade netsurf though, ubuntu has 3.2 debian has 3.6
L944[13:15:53] <vifino> SolraBizna: So, you think the flash is just corrupted and not dead?
L945[13:16:01] <SolraBizna> I think it's possible
L946[13:16:24] <SolraBizna> something may also have latched up, though removing all batteries and pressing the power button should discharge basically every capacitor
L947[13:16:55] <SolraBizna> an alarming possibility, the ME may have self-destructed as a tamperproofing measure
L948[13:17:07] <vifino> Okay. I'll report back once I get a hot air gun to remove the chip, hopefully i will be able to test them without the laptop attached to the chip.
L949[13:17:14] <gamax92> I should probably just compile netsurf though, thanks to the whole libjpeg62-turbo issue
L950[13:17:27] <vifino> yeah, i dont have a replacement for the ME/8mb chip
L951[13:17:38] <vifino> so i am basically boned if it did.
L952[13:18:00] <vifino> at least i won't have a laptop with me for 33c3.
L953[13:18:04] <vifino> which is... bad.
L954[13:18:14] <SolraBizna> gamax92: if it supports JavaScript I can switch
L955[13:18:42] <SolraBizna> deflate-compressed Lua is actually competitive with binary architectures for code density
L956[13:18:50] <Corded> * 20kdc hands vifino a guide, named "Tablet Rooting And You: A Guide"
L957[13:19:10] <gamax92> nvm it installed no problem ..., testing
L958[13:19:19] <vifino> It's not about rooting and it's not really a tablet, 20kdc.
L959[13:19:22] <vifino> It
L960[13:19:28] <SolraBizna> if factoryidle.com works then my life has been transformed :D
L961[13:19:32] <vifino> It's about flashing coreboot.
L962[13:19:36] <gamax92> SolraBizna: it segfaulted
L963[13:19:39] <SolraBizna> lol
L964[13:20:06] <gamax92> which is actually because I didn't try to compile it ...
L965[13:20:09] <20kdc> And I wasn't talking about that. By the sound of it, something's broken on your laptop, but in a pinch you could use a tablet (if you have one) as a basic ARM PC...
L966[13:20:20] <vifino> I do not.
L967[13:20:35] <20kdc> Ah. Well, was worth a note.
L968[13:20:35] <vifino> Well, not an android one, anyways.
L969[13:20:44] <Temia> Wait, vifino
L970[13:20:46] <SolraBizna> order an EOMA68 computer card
L971[13:20:49] <SolraBizna> travel in time to March
L972[13:20:51] <SolraBizna> bring it back to now
L973[13:21:02] <Temia> What possessed you to do this if you had no backups?
L974[13:21:34] <vifino> Temia: It died before I could do backups of the bios. I didn't even get to read out the chip.
L975[13:21:49] <vifino> Didn't flash, didn't read. Just died.
L976[13:22:00] <Temia> Before you fiddled with it at all?
L977[13:22:22] <vifino> Define "fiddled with it".
L978[13:22:43] <Temia> Opened it up and tried to read the chip.
L979[13:22:45] <vifino> I did disassemble the laptop, attach a soic clamp and try to read out the bios chip serveral times.
L980[13:22:54] <gamax92> SolraBizna: oh i have to login for docs?
L981[13:22:55] <Temia> With no backup hardware?
L982[13:23:11] <Temia> Why didn't you try this on a less valuable system first?
L983[13:23:12] <vifino> >_>
L984[13:23:20] <SolraBizna> gamax92: it's a trick
L985[13:23:21] <SolraBizna> don't do it!
L986[13:23:29] <SolraBizna> you can access the doc without a signin
L987[13:23:30] <vifino> It was my backup hardware, Temia.
L988[13:23:57] <SolraBizna> vifino: you had two laptops, one got a corrupted BIOS, you tried to read the other to reflash it?
L989[13:24:19] <vifino> SolraBizna: I do not have two thinkpads.
L990[13:24:52] <Temia> From the way you talked, it sounded like this one was irreplacable.
L991[13:25:08] <gamax92> can a rpi be used for bios flashing?
L992[13:25:09] <vifino> It is, somewhat.
L993[13:25:16] <vifino> gamax92: Yes, it has SPI.
L994[13:25:19] <20kdc> gamax92: check the voltages!
L995[13:25:27] <SolraBizna> SPI can be bitbanged anyway
L996[13:25:35] <gamax92> it doesn't need to have SPI because of what SolraBizna said
L997[13:25:41] <gamax92> hence why a parallel port works
L998[13:25:52] <SolraBizna> bit-banging a BIOS image is sloooooow though
L999[13:26:00] <gamax92> yeah ... especially if it's 8MB
L1000[13:26:10] <20kdc> there are worse situations you could be dealing with
L1001[13:26:12] <SolraBizna> (though probably not "uploading an SREC file over 9600 baud" slow)
L1002[13:26:26] <Corded> * 20kdc waits for a fire to start
L1003[13:26:40] <vifino> The bios of the thinkpad is 4MB, the ME stuff is 8mb, they are virtually concatenated resulting in a "12MB
L1004[13:26:55] <vifino> " chip*
L1005[13:27:02] <vifino> dammit keyboard, why do you do this.
L1006[13:27:25] <20kdc> so, basically, the management engine sucks.
L1007[13:27:30] <SolraBizna> amen!
L1008[13:27:37] <vifino> eyup.
L1009[13:27:51] <SolraBizna> though it has lit a fire under all those people who were saying "It would be cool to have a libre-hardware laptop"
L1010[13:27:57] <SolraBizna> so now we have several options for libre-hardware laptops
L1011[13:28:19] <20kdc> Several? That's more than I saw last time I checked. Sounds fun...
L1012[13:28:42] <SolraBizna> the only one that I think has a chance of really achieving its goals seems to be the EOMA68 project
L1013[13:29:02] <SolraBizna> the others are really "expensive toys for rich IT workers and their children"
L1014[13:29:23] ⇨ Joins: Schzd (~Schzdadep@modemcable121.35-162-184.mc.videotron.ca)
L1015[13:29:24] <vifino> yeah, like the librem laptops
L1016[13:29:31] <vifino> they still run the ME
L1017[13:29:37] <SolraBizna> and if I had a nickel for every "Look! It's a raspberry pi in a laptop enclosure!" laptop
L1018[13:30:03] <Skye> vifino, I did read the coreboot wiki and it mentioned that you could flash an older version of ME that's smaller?
L1019[13:30:27] <Skye> if that's correct then that's good news.
L1020[13:30:59] <20kdc> SolraBizna: does "It's *basically* a raspberry pi in a laptop enclosure, but a different SoC that allows using a RAM DIMM, and there's an FPGA (that you can't program without proprietary software) on it too!" count?
L1021[13:31:02] <vifino> Skye: i could not read out any of the two chips.
L1022[13:31:16] <vifino> checked cabeling, orientation, etc..
L1023[13:31:25] <vifino> everything should've just worked.
L1024[13:31:30] <vifino> but it did not.
L1025[13:31:50] <SolraBizna> the problem is that the R.Pi has critical boot code on the GPU, which is not open source and cannot[citation needed] be reverse engineered or replaced by mere mortals
L1026[13:31:58] <Temia> So... it's just another ARM device?
L1027[13:33:23] <SolraBizna> so if it's not *actually* an R.Pi, there's a chance it will be a SoC that doesn't have that problem and therefore won't piss me off :P
L1028[13:33:37] <Skye> SolraBizna, actually it was being slowly replaced
L1029[13:33:41] <Skye> someone made an open bootloader
L1030[13:33:44] <SolraBizna> oh!
L1031[13:33:45] <Skye> it didn't do much
L1032[13:33:47] <SolraBizna> aw.
L1033[13:33:48] <Skye> but it's there
L1034[13:33:52] <20kdc> Skye: better than nothing
L1035[13:33:55] <SolraBizna> yeah
L1036[13:34:02] <Skye> isn't there also the novena laptop?
L1037[13:34:16] <20kdc> Skye: "FPGA you need proprietary software to program"
L1038[13:34:37] <20kdc> It's not a critical system component AFAIK
L1039[13:34:41] <20kdc> but it's still pretty irritating
L1040[13:34:44] <SolraBizna> plus it's $1000+
L1041[13:35:00] <SolraBizna> sorry, $1000-
L1042[13:35:09] <20kdc> "A LOT OF MONEY"
L1043[13:35:11] <SolraBizna> the board and case together is $975
L1044[13:35:12] <20kdc> there, that should solve it
L1045[13:35:47] <Skye> can't somone reverse engeeer tyhe softwarer?
L1046[13:35:54] <Skye> oh gooduie I cann't stype stypday
L1047[13:35:56] <SolraBizna> the "early adopter" price for the canonical EOMA68 laptop chassis and computer card was ~$600 if you're able to assemble it yourself
L1048[13:36:00] <Skye> seriously what's wrong with my typing
L1049[13:36:07] <20kdc> Skye: Feel free to try reverse-engineering Xilinx FPGA software
L1050[13:36:08] <Skye> SolraBizna, it doesn't seem very powerful though
L1051[13:36:10] <SolraBizna> which is still very pricey
L1052[13:36:12] <20kdc> or was it Altera... well, either way
L1053[13:36:22] <Skye> I want to make a 68k based computer
L1054[13:36:28] <Skye> mabe I should make a laptop version
L1055[13:36:36] <SolraBizna> I was gonna say "well then go buy a 68k chip and start breadboarding"
L1056[13:36:38] <SolraBizna> but you did
L1057[13:36:58] <Skye> I did melt some wires with a PSU
L1058[13:36:59] <Skye> so
L1059[13:37:04] <SolraBizna> progress! :P
L1060[13:37:04] <Skye> I'm gonna get fuses
L1061[13:37:15] <SolraBizna> what, you want to avoid exciting fires?
L1062[13:37:18] <20kdc> Skye, seriously, just get a polyfuse and a USB christmas tree
L1063[13:37:43] <SolraBizna> in any case, the real case for EOMA68 isn't the current price, it's the future potential
L1064[13:38:10] <20kdc> SolraBizna: competition == lower prices
L1065[13:38:13] <SolraBizna> the computer card concept allows a type of reuse which is, itself, worth going for
L1066[13:38:29] <20kdc> ah
L1067[13:38:43] <SolraBizna> $600 for a chassis and computer card now, and in five years when you want a faster laptop, you use your existing chassis and just buy a new $50 computer card
L1068[13:39:13] <SolraBizna> bonus: your old card still works, and can be used in any other EOMA68 chassis, including (in the case of the "first" computer card) a "chassis" which is a USB OTG cable and mini-HDMI cable taped together
L1069[13:39:39] <Skye> the main issue with that is that the protocol is not generic
L1070[13:39:50] <SolraBizna> EOMA68, or USB OTG + mini-HDMI?
L1071[13:39:59] <Skye> it's USB and HDMI
L1072[13:40:05] <Skye> you can't do much more than that
L1073[13:40:15] <Skye> we've already outgrown that
L1074[13:40:20] <SolraBizna> er...?
L1075[13:40:29] <Skye> SolraBizna, it's not useful for powerful computers
L1076[13:40:35] <SolraBizna> it's not designed for powerful computers
L1077[13:40:41] <SolraBizna> and most things we use computers for don't need powerful computers
L1078[13:40:49] <Skye> It would be neat if thunderbolt wasn't a closed standard.
L1079[13:41:22] <SolraBizna> (but the standard does specifically allow for giant bricks that hang off the side of the chassis with 2kW power supplies and octa-SLI Titans)
L1080[13:41:33] <20kdc> Skye: who needs thunderbolt???
L1081[13:41:51] <Skye> what would be neat is if there was a generic communication standard that would be like thunderbolt but completely open
L1082[13:42:07] <SolraBizna> instead of $20 in patent fees and $30 in controller hardware per cable?
L1083[13:42:10] <SolraBizna> and an NDA?
L1084[13:42:17] <Skye> yep
L1085[13:42:38] <Skye> a generic data transfer for local busses.
L1086[13:42:53] <SolraBizna> well, if you make one, you can feel free to make an EOMA68 computer card that has a connector for it on the outside face
L1087[13:43:05] <SolraBizna> the same way the "first" one has USB OTG and HDMI on its outside face
L1088[13:43:17] <SolraBizna> I'll buy it if you do (no joke)
L1089[13:43:57] <gamax92> I'll buy it and then you'll but it from me so I make my money back
L1090[13:44:09] <20kdc> Skye: having a connection to the local bus is usually a bad thing
L1091[13:44:16] <SolraBizna> not that kind of local bus
L1092[13:44:19] <gamax92> SolraBizna: also, you've seen me_cleaner right?
L1093[13:44:48] <SolraBizna> interesting
L1094[13:44:53] <SolraBizna> does it work with recent MEs?
L1095[13:45:01] <SolraBizna> because I heard they have paranoid anti-tampering
L1096[13:45:13] <gamax92> it works on some at least
L1097[13:46:12] <Skye> if I made a 68k computer would people buy it? :P
L1098[13:46:15] <Skye> with an eink screen
L1099[13:46:17] <SolraBizna> why are Intel codenames so crazy?
L1100[13:47:17] <SolraBizna> me_cleaner appears to work up to the very latest MEs
L1101[13:47:34] <SolraBizna> Skye: this already sounds very similar to my apocalypse computer
L1102[13:47:39] <Skye> hm?
L1103[13:48:37] <SolraBizna> W65C816S CPU, MRAM main memory, giant flash chip with Wikipedia image on it, Forth OS, eInk display, can use anything that can provide ~0.01A at 1-10V as a power source
L1104[13:48:56] <SolraBizna> point of note: your 68k computer is already more complete than my apocalypse computer :P
L1105[13:49:53] <Skye> not that the 68k itself can draw 1.5A
L1106[13:50:28] <Skye> *note
L1107[13:50:37] <Skye> and 0.3A in average use
L1108[13:50:40] <Skye> it's power hungry
L1109[13:50:43] <SolraBizna> :(
L1110[13:51:03] <Skye> meanwhile all the support chips are 4000 series are draw rounding errors of current
L1111[13:51:47] <SolraBizna> Lacking budget for hardware, I was attacking the software end
L1112[13:51:58] <20kdc> what draws no current, has no voltage, but consumes many W?
L1113[13:52:00] <SolraBizna> I was trying to make a Forth dialect that fit the 65816's batshit memory model
L1114[13:52:59] <SolraBizna> (I mostly failed)
L1115[13:53:18] <gamax92> (Good)
L1116[13:53:25] <Skye> 68k has a nice memory model
L1117[13:53:30] <gamax92> use something less batshit :P
L1118[13:53:41] <SolraBizna> that power usage, though
L1119[13:53:44] <gamax92> also how much power do FPGAs need?
L1120[13:53:47] <SolraBizna> 10mA at 3.3V
L1121[13:53:53] <Skye> SolraBizna, get a CMOS 68k
L1122[13:54:04] <Skye> they are more flexiable
L1123[13:54:10] <Skye> and have lot less current draw
L1124[13:54:15] <SolraBizna> 10mA, though?
L1125[13:54:36] <SolraBizna> FPGAs tend to be more power hungry than dedicated hardware
L1126[13:55:31] <gamax92> yeah but people can use FPGAs to replace various components, as in attaching the FPGA to boards instead of the specific component
L1127[13:55:43] <SolraBizna> would be good in an apocalypse scenario
L1128[13:55:53] <Skye> 25mA
L1129[13:55:59] * SolraBizna strokes beard, tempted
L1130[13:56:06] <SolraBizna> can it use SRAM as main memory?
L1131[13:56:08] <Skye> 25mA of current for 8Mhz CMOS 68k
L1132[13:57:38] ⇨ Joins: turtledude01 (turtledude@71-89-110-94.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com)
L1133[13:57:56] <gamax92> SolraBizna: like those custom 65xx style processor designs, can use an FPGA to actually implement such a design
L1134[13:58:14] <SolraBizna> but if I'm going to make a custom processor I'll make a 32-bit TTA
L1135[13:58:25] <SolraBizna> I already made a 16-bit TTA CPU in a logic simulator
L1136[13:58:32] <SolraBizna> (it sucked)
L1137[13:58:43] <gamax92> who said you can't have a 32bit 65xx style processor?
L1138[13:59:12] <SolraBizna> that would be so weird
L1139[13:59:35] <SolraBizna> if I had to pick an architecture I would program at a low level during an apocalypse, though, I would pick the 68k architecture hands down
L1140[13:59:45] <Skye> why?
L1141[14:00:05] ⇦ Quits: Keanu73 (~Keanu73@host-78-148-131-105.as13285.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1142[14:00:07] <gamax92> SolraBizna: "but interrupt latency!"
L1143[14:00:09] <SolraBizna> because the 68k ISA is the most programmer-friendly ISA I've ever seen
L1144[14:00:22] <SolraBizna> bah, interrupt latency, I'm a PowerPC fanboy
L1145[14:00:42] <SolraBizna> if your architecture doesn't have >1k to save during a context switch it is an architecture for ANTS
L1146[14:01:55] <SolraBizna> (and if you're not using AltiVec in your interrupt handler you're not trying hard enough)
L1147[14:02:28] ⇦ Quits: turtledude01 (turtledude@71-89-110-94.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com) (*.net *.split)
L1148[14:02:38] <Skye> wat
L1149[14:02:44] <Skye> SolraBizna, make a 68k microkernel
L1150[14:03:29] <gamax92> >_> why haven't I killed the netsplit code in quassel yet.
L1151[14:03:29] ⇨ Joins: turtledude01 (turtledude@71-89-110-94.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com)
L1152[14:04:05] <Skye> SolraBizna, why not have a co-processor system
L1153[14:04:17] <Temia> A toggle for that would be nice.
L1154[14:04:19] <Skye> where you can use a low power CPU and a higher power CPU
L1155[14:04:45] <SolraBizna> One of the design points of the apocalypse computer is that it's supposed to be ultra-rugged
L1156[14:04:51] <SolraBizna> more points of failure is bad
L1157[14:05:42] <SolraBizna> it was going to be able to meet all its design parameters with a 1.049MHz core, so the processing power needed isn't very high :P
L1158[14:06:06] <Skye> well
L1159[14:06:11] <Skye> 68k for nice stuff
L1160[14:06:20] <Skye> when you can spare the power
L1161[14:06:52] <SolraBizna> if you find me a 68k with low power draw (honestly <100mA at 3.3V is "low") and an SRAM-compatible external memory bus, I'm sold
L1162[14:07:27] <SolraBizna> the W65C816S does everything I need, but programming it is a bear
L1163[14:07:43] <Skye> first off
L1164[14:07:45] <SolraBizna> the only 68k parts I can find expect SDRAM
L1165[14:07:53] <Skye> uh no
L1166[14:07:58] <Skye> what are you looking at
L1167[14:08:21] <SolraBizna> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/302/MCF54455-782267.pdf <-- this excessively beefy example is par for the course
L1168[14:08:35] <Skye> no no
L1169[14:08:41] <Skye> look for an OLD 68k from ebay
L1170[14:08:49] <SolraBizna> bear in mind that I'm >60 seconds per page load here T_T
L1171[14:09:02] <Skye> %p
L1172[14:09:02] <SolraBizna> SOMEBODY made me open a Google Doc
L1173[14:09:04] <MichiBot> Ping reply from Skye 1.77s
L1174[14:09:15] <Skye> %p SolraBizna
L1175[14:09:16] <MichiBot> Ping reply from SolraBizna 1.33s
L1176[14:09:21] <SolraBizna> it's not my network, it's my browser
L1177[14:09:24] <SolraBizna> it's been eaten alive
L1178[14:09:34] <SolraBizna> (also, that's my server, which I'm ssh'd into)
L1179[14:10:27] <Skye> SolraBizna, https://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/ref_manual/MC68000UM.pdf
L1180[14:13:15] <SolraBizna> jackpot
L1181[14:13:52] ⇦ Quits: Trangar (~Trangar@249-153-145-85.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
L1182[14:14:37] <gamax92> lol ...
L1183[14:14:52] <gamax92> "Intel ME Huffman algorithm" "compression is poor, way worse than gzip -1, but fast decompression"
L1184[14:15:14] <SolraBizna> I should introduce the engineer that came up with that to the "memcpy algorithm"
L1185[14:15:18] <Sax> can I measure the current power/battery level of a robot?
L1186[14:15:19] ⇨ Joins: xarses_ (~xarses@c-71-198-44-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
L1187[14:15:26] <SolraBizna> inplace compression AND decompression...
L1188[14:15:47] <SolraBizna> Sax: computer.energy() and computer.maxEnergy()
L1189[14:15:54] ⇦ Quits: xarses_ (~xarses@c-71-198-44-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1190[14:15:56] <Sax> Thanks!
L1191[14:16:03] ⇦ Quits: andreww (~xarses@67.218.117.86) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1192[14:16:04] ⇨ Joins: xarses_ (~xarses@c-71-198-44-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
L1193[14:18:18] <SolraBizna> this bus is simple enough that I can slap a giant blob of MRAM onto it without needing support hardware
L1194[14:21:01] <Antheus> %p
L1195[14:21:07] <Antheus> %p Antheus
L1196[14:21:11] <Skye> SolraBizna, what's MRAM?
L1197[14:21:27] <SolraBizna> nonvolatile memory, electrically compatible with SRAM
L1198[14:22:06] <SolraBizna> unlimited read/write endurance, no known limit on data retention (known to be >10 years)
L1199[14:22:24] <Skye> isn't it expensive?
L1200[14:22:28] <SolraBizna> yes
L1201[14:22:40] <gamax92> 10 years is very short
L1202[14:23:11] <SolraBizna> 10 years is much much longer than SRAM/DRAM :P
L1203[14:23:17] <SolraBizna> and it's on par with CD-R
L1204[14:23:36] <SolraBizna> anyway, like I said, the actual retention period is only known in that it is longer than 10 years
L1205[14:25:45] <Skye> make an apocolypse network system
L1206[14:26:11] <SolraBizna> when I pitched the apocalypse computer to one of my younger friends, he asked "Does it have wireless?"
L1207[14:26:19] <SolraBizna> totally unprepared for the question, I just said "...No?"
L1208[14:26:25] <SolraBizna> to which he replied "Then what's the point?"
L1209[14:26:35] <gamax92> SolraBizna: netsurf does have javascript ... it's very limited and pretty much not usable
L1210[14:26:35] <SolraBizna> kids these days
L1211[14:26:45] <gamax92> hence disabled by default
L1212[14:27:51] <Skye> SolraBizna, make a network system over modems!
L1213[14:27:58] <Skye> HAM radio! :P
L1214[14:28:29] <gamax92> it's so unusable that most stuff will just say you still don't have js enabled
L1215[14:31:46] <SolraBizna> I have NoScript in Firefox just to make the Internet usable
L1216[14:32:01] <SolraBizna> nearly every site I visit is broken as a result
L1217[14:32:06] <SolraBizna> it's ridiculous
L1218[14:33:18] <Skye> make a web cache
L1219[14:33:41] <gamax92> write small javascript snippets to patch it back together
L1220[14:34:00] <SolraBizna> in all complete and total seriousness, I have used both Konqueror and Firefox over SSH X forwarding as my main browser
L1221[14:34:12] <SolraBizna> this provided a superior user experience, as long as I was on Ethernet
L1222[14:34:19] <gamax92> heh, yeah
L1223[14:36:50] <CompanionCube> Skye: so.....hammnet?
L1224[14:37:35] <gamax92> I can't figure out how to get the Sound Card to make audio >_>
L1225[14:39:12] <gamax92> oh delay takes milleseconds not seconds.
L1226[14:40:19] <gamax92> well crap that ruins this technique
L1227[14:42:59] <Forecaster> ahahaha
L1228[14:43:14] <Forecaster> there's a user key for factoryidle that is 'asd'
L1229[14:43:16] <Forecaster> xD
L1230[14:44:37] *** cbcercas|AFK is now known as cbcercas
L1231[14:45:03] <gamax92> Forecaster: ?
L1232[14:46:08] <Forecaster> if you type 'asd' into the "Switch user key" field in factoryidle it will load up an actual save-file someone's made
L1233[14:48:20] *** cbcercas is now known as cbcercas|AFK
L1234[14:49:38] ⇨ Joins: Kodos (~Kodos@2602:306:ce20:6c30:d912:be3e:5c97:7721)
L1235[14:49:38] zsh sets mode: +v on Kodos
L1236[14:49:58] <Kodos> o/
L1237[14:57:27] <gamax92> the card is so quiet ...
L1238[14:58:34] <Forecaster> the card?
L1239[14:58:57] <gamax92> computronics sound card
L1240[14:59:04] <gamax92> I'm getting a super tiny blip of audio out of it
L1241[14:59:08] <Forecaster> ah
L1242[14:59:32] <Forecaster> got the wrong audio-slider too low?
L1243[14:59:49] <gamax92> uhh ... I don't think it responds to the audio sliders but maybe
L1244[15:00:05] <Forecaster> I don't know either, but maybe
L1245[15:00:07] <Vexatos> it responds to the Jukebox slider
L1246[15:00:12] <gamax92> jukebox is at full
L1247[15:00:21] <Vexatos> sound card and tape drive does, that is
L1248[15:00:27] <Vexatos> beep and noise card respond to block slider
L1249[15:01:30] <gamax92> uhh ... that's an odd choice for those cards but okay
L1250[15:01:52] <Vexatos> based on computer.beep
L1251[15:02:05] <gamax92> oh, heh
L1252[15:05:08] <gamax92> Vexatos: are you sure volume is hooked up correctly.
L1253[15:05:17] <gamax92> "I:soundVolume=0"
L1254[15:05:25] <gamax92> Sound Card still makes noise
L1255[15:05:53] <Vexatos> uh
L1256[15:08:31] <Vexatos> the config actually isn't
L1257[15:11:27] <gamax92> oh ... Vexatos problem, each channel is divided by 8
L1258[15:11:48] <Vexatos> huh D:
L1259[15:12:08] <gamax92> that was because there were 8 channels, but now channel count is configurable and I don't think that's right
L1260[15:12:20] <Vexatos> riiight
L1261[15:12:22] <gamax92> it should probably clip and the user needs to set .setVolume properly
L1262[15:12:36] <Vexatos> now where did that happen
L1263[15:12:38] <Vexatos> in code
L1264[15:12:43] <gamax92> https://github.com/asiekierka/Computronics/blob/master/src/main/java/pl/asie/computronics/audio/SoundCardPacketClientHandler.java#L117
L1265[15:13:17] <Vexatos> I thought I got rid of all divisions
L1266[15:14:09] * gamax92 pokes GreaseMonkey for adviec
L1267[15:14:12] <Vexatos> guess I need to divide by Config.SOUND_CARD_CHANNEL_COUNT
L1268[15:14:22] <gamax92> no, the ideal would probably be not to divide at all
L1269[15:14:32] <Vexatos> probably
L1270[15:15:08] <gamax92> then you just have to setup the channel volumes with setVolume so that it doesn't clip
L1271[15:15:23] <Vexatos> Ah here we go
L1272[15:15:27] <gamax92> #lua 127/8
L1273[15:15:27] <|0xDEADBEEF|> > 15.875
L1274[15:15:28] <Vexatos> that * 127 below
L1275[15:15:37] <Vexatos> I need to replace that by the sound volume setting
L1276[15:15:42] <gamax92> oh, yeah
L1277[15:15:55] <Vexatos> except that is 64 by default
L1278[15:15:56] <gamax92> I think there's a better place for it though
L1279[15:15:57] <Vexatos> uuuuh
L1280[15:16:16] <gamax92> where is total card volume being used
L1281[15:16:17] <Vexatos> not really because AudioUtil itself is basically Computronics-independent :P
L1282[15:16:22] ⇦ Quits: Jezza (~Jezza@92.206.161.17) (Quit: Sleep)
L1283[15:16:29] <Vexatos> you mean the volume slider?
L1284[15:16:38] <gamax92> no the card has an overall volume limit too
L1285[15:16:49] <gamax92> setTotalVolume
L1286[15:16:54] <Vexatos> ah right
L1287[15:16:55] <Vexatos> uuuuh
L1288[15:17:03] <gamax92> inb4 not used
L1289[15:17:05] <gamax92> :v
L1290[15:17:37] <Vexatos> Line 140
L1291[15:20:59] <gamax92> Vexatos: ahh yeah, so perhaps the soundVolume level should be patched in there, and then remove the divide by 8
L1292[15:21:12] <Vexatos> so (volume * Config.SOUND_VOLUME) / 127.0F
L1293[15:21:13] <Vexatos> yea
L1294[15:21:29] <Vexatos> oh wait
L1295[15:21:31] <gamax92> uhh
L1296[15:21:34] <Vexatos> I need to re-patch that
L1297[15:21:37] <Vexatos> I need to do it earlier
L1298[15:22:34] <gamax92> also no that wouldn't work :P
L1299[15:23:15] <Vexatos> (volume * Config.SOUND_VOLUME) / (16129.0F)
L1300[15:23:18] <gamax92> yes
L1301[15:23:22] <Vexatos> well
L1302[15:23:27] <Vexatos> I'll keep it 127*127
L1303[15:23:31] <gamax92> yes. :P
L1304[15:23:34] <Vexatos> the compiler will auto-calculate that anway
L1305[15:23:36] <Vexatos> anyway*
L1306[15:23:41] <Vexatos> and I will know what that number does
L1307[15:23:54] <Vexatos> (volume * Config.SOUND_VOLUME) / (127.0F * 127.0F) there
L1308[15:24:03] <Vexatos> now it will be half the volume by default though
L1309[15:24:05] <Vexatos> why did I do that
L1310[15:25:26] <gamax92> I dunno ... but make sure you look through the other stuff that uses Config.SOUND_VOLUME before changing
L1311[15:25:36] <Vexatos> also SOUND_VOLUME is a byte and not an int now
L1312[15:25:50] <Vexatos> the only other thing that uses it is beep and noise cards
L1313[15:25:56] <gamax92> tape drive doesn't?
L1314[15:26:00] <Vexatos> Nope
L1315[15:26:09] <Vexatos> It doesn't count as a *generated* sound
L1316[15:26:24] <gamax92> oh, util.sound.Audio stuff?
L1317[15:26:35] <Vexatos> yep
L1318[15:27:37] <Vexatos> now how to fix the sample division thinger
L1319[15:28:49] <Vexatos> each sample has to end up being a number between -1 and 1
L1320[15:28:53] <Vexatos> sooo uh
L1321[15:28:55] <Vexatos> ._.
L1322[15:29:14] <gamax92> then clamp it.
L1323[15:30:16] <Vexatos> ugh
L1324[15:30:39] <Vexatos> right now it adds an eigths of each channel to the value
L1325[15:30:53] <Vexatos> so why shouldn't it just add a <channelcount>th of each channel's value to the value
L1326[15:31:07] <Vexatos> Uh I see
L1327[15:31:09] <gamax92> because using one channel is very quiet
L1328[15:31:09] <SolraBizna> because then each channel is really quiet if you have 256 channels
L1329[15:31:12] <Vexatos> If you only use one channel it's derp
L1330[15:31:26] <Vexatos> but if you use all eight it also should be the volume of all eight
L1331[15:31:27] <SolraBizna> and you can't divide by the number of active channels, either
L1332[15:31:29] <Vexatos> i.e. eight times the value
L1333[15:31:37] <Vexatos> so the value would have to be between -8 and 8 then
L1334[15:31:41] <gamax92> what no
L1335[15:31:42] <gamax92> clip.
L1336[15:31:51] <gamax92> channels have setVolume so you can fix the clipping
L1337[15:31:55] <Vexatos> right
L1338[15:32:04] <SolraBizna> the usual compromise is to pick a reasonable divider (like 4 or 8 or 10) and just let it clip if more channels are playing
L1339[15:32:12] <Vexatos> but that way 8 channels would be just as loud as one
L1340[15:32:38] <Vexatos> and, in fact, you wouldn't hear a thing if you aren't using setvolume
L1341[15:34:57] <gamax92> then use it?
L1342[15:35:03] <Vexatos> ...I guess
L1343[15:35:09] <Vexatos> It seems weird to me though
L1344[15:35:16] <Vexatos> that two channels would overlap
L1345[15:35:25] <Vexatos> with clamping they would
L1346[15:35:39] <Vexatos> sample = Math.max(Math.min(sample, 1), -1);
L1347[15:35:41] <Vexatos> easy enough
L1348[15:35:44] <Vexatos> but eeeeeh ._.
L1349[15:35:45] <gamax92> TL;DR Vexatos doesn't understand that audio clips
L1350[15:35:47] <gamax92> irl
L1351[15:35:58] <Vexatos> well yea
L1352[15:36:00] <Vexatos> I know
L1353[15:36:04] <gamax92> with real chips and other various hardware
L1354[15:36:11] <Vexatos> I guess if I'm going to be low-level I might as well
L1355[15:36:18] <Vexatos> and it's definitely better than the current bug
L1356[15:36:50] <Vexatos> gamax92, which MC version do you want a build for?
L1357[15:36:57] <gamax92> I use 1.7.10 :P
L1358[15:37:35] <Vexatos> k
L1359[15:37:39] <gamax92> I'll have to fix up the songplayer to chose a decent default for volume now, but 1/8 happened to work okay because I only use like 4 channels normally
L1360[15:37:53] <gamax92> which is why I never noticed the problem
L1361[15:38:10] <Vexatos> ah
L1362[15:38:31] <Vexatos> but yea now you can, in Lua, configure your volume to always be 1 / <channelsyouactuallyuse> per channel
L1363[15:38:40] <Vexatos> I guess that's a lot better
L1364[15:39:08] <Vexatos> gamax92, this will take about 10 minutes because for some reason filezilla takes that time to connect to Caitlyn's server :P
L1365[15:39:14] * gamax92 builds it himself
L1366[15:39:19] <Vexatos> or that
L1367[15:39:24] <Vexatos> :⁾
L1368[15:39:40] <Vexatos> gamax92, https://github.com/asiekierka/Computronics/commit/705293137ae47307edaf5667c8480cee88019432
L1369[15:39:43] <Vexatos> that should do I guess?
L1370[15:39:54] <Caitlyn> wtf... why :/
L1371[15:40:01] <Vexatos> don't ask me
L1372[15:40:13] <Vexatos> It's the same to vifino's server so it might just be something in my router being wtf?
L1373[15:41:04] <SolraBizna> does your IP have a PTR record?
L1374[15:41:31] <Vexatos> it's a shitty telecom router for a shitty telecom connection we pay way too much money for
L1375[15:41:45] <Vexatos> So it's not unlikely it's an issue with that :P
L1376[15:42:20] <Vexatos> gamax92, poke, does that commit look about right :P
L1377[15:42:29] <Vexatos> or did I forget how to math
L1378[15:42:51] <SolraBizna> last time I had curiously-close-to-exactly-60-seconds connection issues with SSH, it was because the server was trying to look up the PTR record for the client, and not getting a response
L1379[15:43:33] <gamax92> Vexatos: I can't build anyway
L1380[15:43:39] <gamax92> random gregtech errors
L1381[15:44:02] <Vexatos> gamax92, http://files.vex.tty.sh/Computronics/dev/Computronics-1.7.10-1.6.2.104-soundvolume.jar
L1382[15:44:11] <Vexatos> this time it was nice to me
L1383[15:45:15] <gamax92> Vexatos: how do you build it though, the gregtech jar from maven is missing a lot of stuff it references in gregtech.api
L1384[15:45:30] <Vexatos> you put gregtech 5.07.07 into /libs
L1385[15:45:37] <Vexatos> because you need two gregtech jars
L1386[15:45:37] <Vexatos> :P
L1387[15:46:03] <Vexatos> pro tip: Never support two gregtech versions at the same time unless you are insane
L1388[15:47:16] <gamax92> Vexatos: thanks, it builds now
L1389[15:47:31] <gamax92> asielib 0.4.7 ;-;
L1390[15:47:33] <Vexatos> I just gave you the jar, gamax92 ,_,
L1391[15:47:38] <gamax92> I know but still
L1392[15:47:44] <Vexatos> http://files.vex.tty.sh/AsieLib/dev/
L1393[15:48:04] <Vexatos> oh right, I still need to fix rolloff yet again
L1394[15:48:06] <Vexatos> uuuuh
L1395[15:48:27] <Vexatos> You don't happen to know which rolloff style minecraft uses? :P
L1396[15:48:32] <SolraBizna> linear
L1397[15:48:39] <SolraBizna> well, it has two
L1398[15:48:42] <SolraBizna> linear, and NO
L1399[15:49:29] <Vexatos> Because I need to change the rolloff factor based on the max distance in the config
L1400[15:49:52] <Vexatos> or do I
L1401[15:49:59] <Vexatos> Without, the rolloff would always be the same
L1402[15:50:17] <Vexatos> I guess if you set the config to something large it should be hearable further away
L1403[15:50:18] <Vexatos> >_>
L1404[15:56:00] ⇦ Quits: Mettaton_Fab (~OyVey@p4FC72DFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: gotta go to bed or other stuff, maybe its not even midnight and im just sleepy af)
L1405[15:58:24] <Forecaster> SolraBizna: I just pushed an update to the plugin
L1406[15:59:02] <Vexatos> rolloff * 8F / distanceUsed
L1407[15:59:14] <Vexatos> If I can maths at 11 p.m. this should do it
L1408[15:59:30] <Vexatos> oh wait
L1409[15:59:32] <Vexatos> 6 not 8
L1410[15:59:37] <Vexatos> there
L1411[15:59:55] <SolraBizna> Forecaster: you ate the 0.4 heading in the readme D:
L1412[15:59:56] <Vexatos> yes
L1413[15:59:59] ⇨ Joins: Xal (~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net)
L1414[16:00:00] <Vexatos> Does that look about right?
L1415[16:00:27] <Vexatos> I determined as a magic number that at a default max sound distance of 24 blocks, 0.25 is a good rolloff factor
L1416[16:00:30] <Forecaster> SolraBizna: what?
L1417[16:00:41] <SolraBizna> the changelog has 0.4 and 0.5's changes under 0.5's heading
L1418[16:00:44] <SolraBizna> and there is no 0.4 heading anymore
L1419[16:01:51] <Vexatos> Does this look right or am I derp
L1420[16:01:55] <Vexatos> or is this generally a terrible idea
L1421[16:01:58] <SolraBizna> also, the popup starts with Top Left selected but it's in the top right >_>
L1422[16:02:10] <Vexatos> to make it go quieter slower if the max distance in the config is different
L1423[16:02:22] <Forecaster> the header was a missing line-break, for some reason
L1424[16:02:29] <Forecaster> dunno why github's markup does that
L1425[16:03:09] <Forecaster> the selection is because the default isn't at the top of the list, and I don't override which is selected
L1426[16:05:05] <gamax92> I think I can abuse the ADSR for better quality
L1427[16:06:33] <Vexatos> ok, rolloff changes with distance now instead of gain
L1428[16:07:55] <Forecaster> SolraBizna: happy with the suffixes?
L1429[16:09:24] <SolraBizna> if I set 5m or 5M as my goal it says I'll hit it in 15 seconds, and if I set 5b or 5G as my goal it says 4 hours 20 minutes
L1430[16:09:31] <SolraBizna> only problem is I currently have just under 10 billion <_<
L1431[16:10:26] <SolraBizna> I think it's treating my income as my current total
L1432[16:11:08] <Vexatos> gamax92, are you in MC right now? Could you test how the volume of the beep card relates to the volume of the sound card?
L1433[16:11:26] <gamax92> I don't know how to use the beep card but sure
L1434[16:12:38] <Vexatos> gamax92, component.beep.beep({[440]=5})
L1435[16:13:54] <gamax92> beep is quiet like the computer beep
L1436[16:14:03] <Vexatos> about as quiet?
L1437[16:14:03] <gamax92> sound card is a bit louder
L1438[16:14:13] <Vexatos> Well it should be because I am * 0.3 on the beeps :P
L1439[16:14:41] <Vexatos> AL10.alSourcef(source, AL10.AL_ROLLOFF_FACTOR, (24F * 0.25F) / maxDistance); // At a distance of 24, a rolloff factor of 0.25 sounds good enough.
L1440[16:14:46] <Vexatos> best comment
L1441[16:14:46] <Vexatos> "good enough"
L1442[16:14:56] <gamax92> heh
L1443[16:14:56] <Vexatos> no wait best comment is "What could possibly go wrong?"
L1444[16:15:03] <Vexatos> I recently added that to OC
L1445[16:15:15] <gamax92> Worst comment is "<Sangar> gnight!"
L1446[16:15:19] <Vexatos> https://github.com/MightyPirates/OpenComputers/pull/2174/files#diff-9c2f97eafb6e431e8010c3ed05a4bc80R771
L1447[16:16:26] <Forecaster> ah
L1448[16:16:36] <Forecaster> right
L1449[16:16:44] <Forecaster> I'm dropping decimals
L1450[16:16:47] <Forecaster> that's probably bad
L1451[16:17:24] <Forecaster> lets do parseFloat instead of parseInt
L1452[16:17:41] <gamax92> either way what I'm doing is stupid and using the tape drive is easier and better quality
L1453[16:18:07] <Vexatos> What _are_ you doing
L1454[16:19:11] <S3> Vexatos: nope
L1455[16:24:57] <gamax92> Vexatos: oh and I updated the LionRay jar to include the changes you made (might have told me about but probably didn't tell me about)
L1456[16:25:42] <Forecaster> SolraBizna: fixed it
L1457[16:25:54] <Vexatos> gamax92, I just had this for the time http://files.vex.tty.sh/Computronics/dev/LionRay1a.jar
L1458[16:26:11] <Vexatos> it's for DFPWM 1a (duh)
L1459[16:26:48] <gamax92> lol, tape write doesn't check if you gave it a file :P
L1460[16:27:15] <Forecaster> I hope
L1461[16:28:58] <Vexatos> gamax92, quality software
L1462[16:29:13] <Vexatos> yell at the git who wrote it... oh wait
L1463[16:29:40] <gamax92> Vexatos: uhh ... is Computronics using dfpwm 1a or original ?
L1464[16:29:51] <Vexatos> DFPWM 1 on 1.7.10
L1465[16:29:53] <Vexatos> because legacy
L1466[16:29:55] * gamax92 stabs
L1467[16:29:56] <Vexatos> 1a on anything later
L1468[16:30:05] <Vexatos> because no need for legacy
L1469[16:30:07] <gamax92> dammit no wonder this sounds like shit
L1470[16:30:40] <Vexatos> You see, 1a is much better than 1
L1471[16:30:46] <Vexatos> but I didn't want to ruin two-year-old tapes :P
L1472[16:31:05] <gamax92> no it sounds like shit because I'm trying to play a 1a tape on 1
L1473[16:31:19] <gamax92> 1a is pretty terrible itself and only sounds better because you upped the sample rate
L1474[16:32:01] <vifino> HAH
L1475[16:32:06] <vifino> I AM GOOOD
L1476[16:32:12] <Vexatos> 1a is terrible if you play it using the 1 decode :P
L1477[16:32:14] <Vexatos> decoder*
L1478[16:32:21] <vifino> I desoldered the flash chip and got a read out :3
L1479[16:32:26] <Vexatos> it's a tiiiny bit better but it needs the upped sample rate
L1480[16:32:30] <Vexatos> so it's a lot better anyway
L1481[16:32:42] <Vexatos> 32768 was a weird sample rate anyway
L1482[16:32:44] ⇦ Quits: brandon3055__ (~Brandon@122-129-151-25.dynamic.ipstaraus.com) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)
L1483[16:32:57] <gamax92> yeah well, I'm patching my Computronics jar.
L1484[16:33:56] ⇨ Joins: brandon3055 (~Brandon@122-129-151-25.dynamic.ipstaraus.com)
L1485[16:36:39] <vifino> gamax92: I done did it. I desoldered the sop8 4MB bios chip using my soldering iron and pliers only, put it in the test clamp and it bloody works!
L1486[16:37:13] <vifino> it works like once in a blue moon, but it does work sometimes
L1487[16:37:35] <vifino> and the rom dump is actually 4M and not a failed read
L1488[16:37:50] <gamax92> :D
L1489[16:39:53] <SolraBizna> vifino: huzzah!
L1490[16:40:30] <SolraBizna> Vexatos: I couldn't find any actual information on Computronics when I looked earlier
L1491[16:40:46] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@p200300556E6531165150CC0CE85DD19F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: I guess I have to go now. Bye ✔)
L1492[16:40:52] <vifino> Yup, now I need to get it to read twice, get a good x230T 4MB rom and hopefully determine that they do not match.
L1493[16:41:01] <vifino> Otherwise it is something else and I am back to square one.
L1494[16:46:16] ⇨ Joins: brandon3055_ (~Brandon@122-129-151-25.dynamic.ipstaraus.com)
L1495[16:47:03] <Forecaster> http://www.curtailedcomic.com/comic/workerbees/
L1496[16:47:06] <Forecaster> beesss
L1497[16:47:16] ⇦ Quits: brandon3055 (~Brandon@122-129-151-25.dynamic.ipstaraus.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1498[16:49:03] ⇦ Quits: OneM_Industries (~OneM_Indu@66.171.94.135) (Quit: The internet is on fire! Run!)
L1499[16:49:36] <vifino> DAMMIT, the roms differ
L1500[16:55:52] <Skye> Oh dear
L1501[16:59:58] <SolraBizna> isn't them being different good?
L1502[17:05:18] <SolraBizna> found what I was looking for
L1503[17:07:17] <S3> okay guys I'm doing something ridiculous
L1504[17:07:21] <S3> SolraBizna might even like this
L1505[17:07:57] <S3> I'm making zflash, and it uses the remaining free space of the eeprom and the existing 256 byte data segment of teh eeprom, and it overloads eeprom.getData(), and that's your total data space.
L1506[17:08:07] <S3> and it also compresses that and decompresses on the fly :)
L1507[17:08:35] <S3> the top of the eeprom is a stage one loader, which only finds the stage two loader which is compressed and a header to the eeprom boot code you specify
L1508[17:08:44] <S3> and the stage 2 loader just overloads eeprom.getData
L1509[17:09:23] <S3> it also creates functions for checking the "estimated" remaining space
L1510[17:11:14] <Skye> Heh
L1511[17:11:14] <Skye> EEPROMS
L1512[17:11:14] <Skye> I knew someone was going to do something awesome with it.
L1513[17:11:59] <gamax92> some day
L1514[17:12:10] <SolraBizna> Skye: have you seen my Tetrominoes ROM?
L1515[17:12:30] <Skye> Huh?
L1516[17:12:38] <gamax92> yeah, it's tetris in an eeprom
L1517[17:12:54] <Skye> Ooo
L1518[17:16:59] <vifino> SolraBizna: all the readouts i made so far differ from each other.
L1519[17:17:13] <vifino> thats not good.
L1520[17:18:11] <SolraBizna> Skye: OC-ARM CPUs have 256 bytes of SRAM that can be used to read/write the extra data on EEPROMs
L1521[17:18:32] <SolraBizna> my Tetri---ominoes ROM abuses that to be a playable Tetris in a computer with no memory modules
L1522[17:18:59] <SolraBizna> including the anti-wrong-architecture shim, the ROM is 4093 bytes :|
L1523[17:19:44] <Skye> vifino: that is worrying.
L1524[17:20:18] <SolraBizna> vifino: are you sure you are reading it correctly? correct voltages and everything?
L1525[17:20:23] *** TheCryptek is now known as TheCryptek|Away
L1526[17:20:25] <vifino> yup.
L1527[17:20:28] <vifino> 3.3v.
L1528[17:20:33] *** TheCryptek|Away is now known as TheCryptek|Mobile
L1529[17:20:38] <vifino> although it might be not enough juice.
L1530[17:20:41] *** TheCryptek|Mobile is now known as TheCryptek
L1531[17:20:58] <vifino> but i really dont have any other power supply for this thing i could give it.
L1532[17:21:18] *** TheCryptek is now known as TheCryptek|Away
L1533[17:21:30] <vifino> maybe abuse a rpi as a power supply? probably the worst idea i have had in a while, but it is the only one i got.
L1534[17:23:27] ⇦ Quits: Inari (~Pinkishu@p4FC1EBCE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: 'We must eat popcorn at the new moon, when a numeral seven is in the date.' - Vanilla (Galaxy Angel))
L1535[17:26:05] <SolraBizna> can you read it slower?
L1536[17:26:17] <vifino> already trying it at 9600bps...
L1537[17:26:24] <SolraBizna> ...I guess that would only help if you were accessing an asynchronous device directly
L1538[17:26:40] *** TheCryptek|Away is now known as TheCryptek
L1539[17:29:45] <vifino> i am having a hard time reading it, too
L1540[17:30:04] <Izaya> S3: MIT
L1541[17:30:31] <Izaya> also hi everyone
L1542[17:30:55] <Antheus> howdy
L1543[17:31:01] <Antheus> %weather 76020
L1544[17:31:02] <MichiBot> Current weather for Azle, TX Current Temp: 26.2°F/-3.2°C Feels Like: 26°F/-3°C Current Humidity: 46% Wind: From the NW 1.0 Mph/1.6 Km/h Conditions: Partly Cloudy
L1545[17:32:15] <Izaya> S3: sure I can do 500 lines in 4KB, just don't ask me to read it afterwards
L1546[17:32:24] <S3> Izaya: I'm working on something super cool
L1547[17:32:34] <S3> I'm making a new program called zflash
L1548[17:32:42] <Izaya> Is it fast?
L1549[17:32:42] <S3> it uses the data card to create a compressed EEPROM image
L1550[17:32:44] <Izaya> :P
L1551[17:32:46] <Izaya> Ooo
L1552[17:33:16] <S3> and then uses the remaining free space of the eeprom and overloads eeprom.getData() to use both that and the 256 byte data segment, with the data card for compression
L1553[17:33:20] <S3> so you can have larger uC config files
L1554[17:33:40] <Izaya> But you need the data card to load the EEPROM.
L1555[17:33:44] ⇦ Quits: Sax (kiwiirc@c-311ee253.031-26-74686e1.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
L1556[17:33:45] <S3> right
L1557[17:33:50] <S3> that's the only downside
L1558[17:33:54] <S3> but it works with a tier 1 data carfd
L1559[17:33:56] <S3> card*
L1560[17:34:15] <S3> I'm curious how much code you can pack
L1561[17:34:22] <S3> if it's zlib I expect about 70% compression
L1562[17:35:04] <SolraBizna> S3: I linked this to you earlier: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DxKSggEXJ0eWJ9jlvtA7V0uiejvpAkcQeYhIZOOkI0o/edit
L1563[17:35:07] <vifino> well, there goes that plan.
L1564[17:35:15] <vifino> one of the chip's legs just broke off.
L1565[17:35:22] <SolraBizna> fixable
L1566[17:35:50] <vifino> oh, no, two
L1567[17:35:53] <vifino> and i cant find them
L1568[17:36:03] <Izaya> that is problematic
L1569[17:36:46] <Antheus> :(
L1570[17:37:13] <Izaya> vifino: pull the legs off some other chips
L1571[17:37:32] <vifino> ... are you nuts?
L1572[17:37:52] <Izaya> yes
L1573[17:37:55] <S3> so the inflate and deflate is zlib right SolraBizna ?
L1574[17:37:58] <S3> which is basically gzip
L1575[17:38:00] <Izaya> preferably walnuts
L1576[17:38:01] <SolraBizna> yes
L1577[17:38:04] <S3> nice
L1578[17:38:07] <S3> so in theory
L1579[17:38:18] <S3> you can store up to about 32K of code in a 4K eeprom this way
L1580[17:38:22] <S3> what do you think of that gamax92
L1581[17:38:22] <S3> :D
L1582[17:38:27] <SolraBizna> subtract a few bytes from the gzip numbers on that sheet, since it's got a longer header than deflate
L1583[17:38:45] <SolraBizna> he was there for the part where the data gathering took place, and helped me gather it :P
L1584[17:39:14] <S3> likewise, with 1K of free space, you may be able to stuff like 9K of config data
L1585[17:39:20] <S3> that's a nice config file for a uC
L1586[17:39:56] <SolraBizna> just remember, binary config data is going to be way less compressible than Lua source code
L1587[17:40:24] <S3> yeah, but itl also depend on how regular the data is
L1588[17:40:28] <S3> instead of random
L1589[17:40:38] <S3> config data isn't really random
L1590[17:46:12] <Skye> S3, SolraBizna: zopfli
L1591[17:46:23] * SolraBizna points to the "zopfli" rows in that spreadsheet
L1592[17:46:38] <S3> heh
L1593[17:47:58] <Skye> It's worth noting you are not allowed to rub Lua byte code
L1594[17:48:03] <Skye> *Run
L1595[17:48:17] <Skye> I can't type I can't only pretend to thanks to autocorrwft
L1596[17:48:18] <Skye> ...
L1597[17:48:22] * Caitlyn rubs the bytecode
L1598[17:48:35] <SolraBizna> that data gathering run was originally intended to demonstrate that adding support for Lua bytecode would not be particularly helpful in packing more code into less space
L1599[17:48:43] * Caitlyn all over Skye
L1600[17:48:44] <SolraBizna> by demonstrating that compressed source code is significantly smaller
L1601[17:50:30] <S3> hehcompressed eeproms, why hasn't anyone done this?!
L1602[17:50:42] *** TheCryptek is now known as TheCryptek|Away
L1603[17:50:48] <S3> I want to donate this program to loot
L1604[17:50:51] <S3> if it works well
L1605[17:51:25] <S3> if not an oopm package will be good 'nuff
L1606[17:52:48] <Izaya> CAH anyone?
L1607[17:53:58] <vifino> seeing as i have no sane chance of getting the thinkpad working right now, sure.
L1608[17:55:21] <Izaya> usual address
L1609[17:55:29] <S3> Izaya: WHERE
L1610[17:55:33] <S3> CAH NOW
L1611[17:55:40] <Izaya> https://xyzzy.shadowkat.net
L1612[17:58:18] <SolraBizna> going from my laptop to my desktop is weird
L1613[17:58:19] <Izaya> S3: ^
L1614[17:58:38] <SolraBizna> "ARGH, my web browser is open, the rest of the computer is lagging"
L1615[17:59:06] <SolraBizna> vs. "Chrome, Eclipse, a Minecraft server, two VMs, and a game are running? No sweat"
L1616[18:00:51] ⇦ Quits: Turtle (~SentientT@82.171.92.73) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
L1617[18:02:02] <Izaya> S3 I summon thee
L1618[18:03:16] <Izaya> welp, starting without you
L1619[18:11:40] ⇦ Quits: Doty1154 (~Doty1154@2601:648:8000:134f:9149:e463:bdc9:7112) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1620[18:36:22] <S3> Izaya: sorry dinner called
L1621[18:38:12] <Izaya> just about to start a new game
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L1626[19:30:22] <gamax92> http://i.imgur.com/9MNJTfp.gifv
L1627[20:05:18] <S3> this is weird but
L1628[20:05:26] <S3> what's the best way in Lua to allocate a string of X size?
L1629[20:11:47] <S3> so uh
L1630[20:11:55] <S3> I think I found a problem
L1631[20:11:58] <S3> in a creative case
L1632[20:12:07] <S3> I am getting "not enough energy" on the data card for deflate
L1633[20:14:13] <S3> energy shouldn't have anything to do with the data card..
L1634[20:14:20] <S3> if it's the length of data
L1635[20:14:41] <S3> since IRL you'd be processing chunks anyways and not the entire thing (especially with zlib)
L1636[20:17:08] <S3> this is pretty bad
L1637[20:18:22] <S3> if this is true I'm not sure of a decent workaround for this
L1638[20:18:34] <S3> rather than doing an array of chunks which is.. well that makes the loader larger
L1639[20:18:40] <S3> annoyingly larger
L1640[20:23:32] <S3> 10938 bytes
L1641[20:23:43] <S3> that's the maximum data.deflate() value.
L1642[20:23:50] <S3> what the fuck\
L1643[20:25:13] ⇦ Quits: BearishMushroom (~BearishMu@90-231-174-194-no159.tbcn.telia.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1644[20:25:43] <S3> oh
L1645[20:25:45] <S3> OH
L1646[20:25:47] <S3> I found the problem.
L1647[20:25:56] <S3> but I dunno how to fix it
L1648[20:28:28] ⇨ Joins: Doty1154 (~Doty1154@67.215.244.186)
L1649[20:33:37] <S3> so I'm going to do it in chunks
L1650[21:09:17] <Antheus> %weather 76020
L1651[21:09:19] <MichiBot> Current weather for Azle, TX Current Temp: 18.2°F/-7.7°C Feels Like: 18°F/-8°C Current Humidity: 62% Wind: From the NW 0.0 Mph/0.0 Km/h Conditions: Partly Cloudy
L1652[21:11:45] <Caitlyn> %w 72396
L1653[21:11:47] <MichiBot> Current weather for Wynne, AR Current Temp: 25.3°F/-3.7°C Feels Like: 16°F/-9°C Current Humidity: 61% Wind: From the North 9.6 Mph/15.4 Km/h Conditions: Partly Cloudy
L1654[21:13:54] <Xal> %w v6k 1e3
L1655[21:13:55] <MichiBot> No data returned
L1656[21:13:57] <Xal> %w v6k1e3
L1657[21:13:58] <MichiBot> No data returned
L1658[21:14:01] <Xal> %w bc v6k1e3
L1659[21:14:02] <MichiBot> No data returned
L1660[21:14:42] <Caitlyn> %w Vancouver, British Columbia
L1661[21:14:42] <MichiBot> Current weather for Vancouver, British Columbia Current Temp: 34°F/1°C Feels Like: 25°F/-4°C Current Humidity: 93% Wind: From the ENE 12 Mph/18 Km/h Conditions: Overcast
L1662[21:15:59] <Xal> >Conditions: Overcast
L1663[21:16:03] <Xal> redundant information
L1664[21:21:38] <Antheus> .-.
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L1669[21:45:24] <JesusAlliman> hello
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L1671[21:51:00] <SolraBizna> Goodbye?
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L1677[22:10:53] <gamax92> CLK
L1678[22:11:40] <vifino> SCK
L1679[22:12:10] <vifino> SCLK*
L1680[22:12:31] <vifino> tho i think both work
L1681[22:15:08] *** Keridos is now known as Keridos|away
L1682[22:15:16] <SolraBizna> phi2
L1683[22:15:53] *** Keridos|away is now known as Keridos
L1684[22:16:08] *** medsouz is now known as medsouz|offline
L1685[22:16:40] <gamax92> Φ²
L1686[22:20:43] <SolraBizna> sorry, I meant PHI2O
L1687[22:21:07] <gamax92> I²C
L1688[22:21:23] <SolraBizna> so, the main thing I like about FactoryIdle is the same as the main thing I like about Factorio
L1689[22:21:35] <SolraBizna> both were written by programmers who were prepared to tackle the scale of their project
L1690[22:21:40] <gamax92> what is factoryidle
L1691[22:21:51] <SolraBizna> http://factoryidle.com
L1692[22:24:36] <SolraBizna> on a logarithmic scale I'm about 1/3 of the way up the ladder and the game is still playable on my laptop
L1693[22:25:18] <vifino> Does the question i2c vs SPI start a flame war?
L1694[22:25:22] <gamax92> no
L1695[22:25:28] <vifino> Aww .
L1696[22:25:44] <SolraBizna> they have different purposes
L1697[22:25:51] <vifino> shh
L1698[22:25:59] <SolraBizna> then again, so do emacs and vi
L1699[22:26:13] <SolraBizna> emacs wants to be an OS with text editing in-kernel, vi wants to be incomprehensible to new users
L1700[22:26:14] <vifino> one belongs on the computer and one in a hardware store?
L1701[22:26:31] <vifino> (kitchen sink joke)
L1702[22:26:57] <gamax92> how to use vi
L1703[22:26:59] <gamax92> ctrl-z
L1704[22:27:00] <SolraBizna> :q
L1705[22:27:39] <vifino> generaos
L1706[22:27:53] <gamax92> atleast vim does tell you :q
L1707[22:28:07] <None> Vi or emacs (I love flame wars)
L1708[22:28:22] <gamax92> nano
L1709[22:28:25] <vifino> ee
L1710[22:28:27] <SolraBizna> Eclipse!
L1711[22:28:31] <gamax92> Eclipse!
L1712[22:28:31] * SolraBizna uncontrollably vomits
L1713[22:28:58] <None> PyCharm (For editing C files)
L1714[22:29:46] <gamax92> bitbang i2c
L1715[22:29:58] <vifino> that's not an editor.
L1716[22:30:09] <SolraBizna> in Hacknet, if you want to edit text, you use a braindead sed clone
L1717[22:30:11] <gamax92> it could be :v
L1718[22:30:39] <vifino> oh oh oh
L1719[22:30:45] <gamax92> store your file on an bios chip, then erase and write to edit
L1720[22:30:52] <SolraBizna> LOL
L1721[22:31:09] <SolraBizna> reminds me of programming my father's old TRS-80
L1722[22:31:21] <SolraBizna> ...when we didn't have its video cable, so the only IO was the thermal printer
L1723[22:31:46] <SolraBizna> (and I guess the keyboard)
L1724[22:31:57] <vifino> i wonder if awk vs sed could start a flame war.
L1725[22:32:09] <vifino> i mean, with awk, you can replace sed.
L1726[22:32:22] <SolraBizna> I learned how to use awk once, in the 90's
L1727[22:32:29] <SolraBizna> I forgot days later and haven't managed to learn again since
L1728[22:32:37] <vifino> awk is lovely.
L1729[22:32:49] <SolraBizna> I know, I need something like it almost every day
L1730[22:41:49] <gamax92> SolraBizna: you know what's like awk?
L1731[22:41:50] <gamax92> awk
L1732[22:42:07] <SolraBizna> I should really learn it again
L1733[22:42:25] <gamax92> I've only ever used it for selecting fields from lines of text
L1734[22:42:38] <gamax92> '{print $2}' or something
L1735[22:45:43] <SolraBizna> I usually try to use cut for that
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L1742[23:24:44] <gamax92> SolarBizna: I feel like awk does a better job than cut
L1743[23:39:28] <S3> ok so it looks like I will definately be partitioning the eeprom data
L1744[23:52:34] <S3> so
L1745[23:52:47] <S3> gamax92: know of a way to create a string of null bytes in Lua?
L1746[23:53:10] <S3> you know what I don't think I need to
L1747[23:53:35] <S3> I can just keep track of free remaining data space
L1748[23:55:12] <gamax92> string.rep
L1749[23:56:07] <gamax92> S3: do keep in mind though some OC stuff can't handle NUL properly
L1750[23:56:50] <gamax92> Lua and it's native functions can but stuff like the Unicode api truncates at NUL
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