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L1[00:00:07] ⇨
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L2[00:00:07] zsh
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L6[00:20:06] <SoraFirestorm> laters
all
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L26[03:19:56] <Izaya> wow
L27[03:20:08] <Izaya> people think of
Minecraft PE on Windows 10 as Minecraft
L28[03:20:11] <Izaya> it is not the same
thing
L29[03:20:30] <Kodos> Keep in mind, there
are people who still think Earth is flat
L30[03:20:55] <Izaya> ... true
L31[03:26:19] <Kodos> Jesus, 1.9 is nice
because of the combat, but Mojang screwed the pooch on chunk
rendering
L32[03:28:33] <g> there were always chunk
rendering issues
L33[03:28:38] <g> what's new?
L34[03:28:55] <Izaya> isn't the
dual-wielding mod better than the vanilla dual wielding?
L35[03:29:10] <Kodos> Entire chunks going
invisible
L36[03:29:20] <g> Kodos, yeah that isn't
new by any means
L37[03:29:21] <Kodos> Izaya, possibly, no
idea
L38[03:29:21] <Izaya> okay that's more
broken than usual
L39[03:29:33] <Izaya> did it malfunction
like that in 1.7?
L40[03:29:36] <Kodos> g, the issue is most
rendering shit with chunks was great in 1.8.9
L42[03:29:41] <Kodos> And then Mojang
regressed
L43[03:29:53] <g> so they fixed it for one
version
L44[03:29:56] <g> it was probably an
accident then
L45[03:30:03] <Izaya> works fine in 1.7 for
me
L46[03:30:08] <Izaya> haven't tried 1.8 or
1.9
L47[03:30:16] <g> I have problems in 1.7
with it occasionally
L48[03:30:30] <g> just a chunk..
missing
L49[03:30:35] <Kodos> 1.8.9 has vastly
improved performance over 1.7 for me
L50[03:30:39] <Kodos> But 1.9 sucks donkey
balls
L51[03:30:42] <Kodos> As far as that
goes
L52[03:30:50] <Izaya> classy
L53[03:31:03] <Kodos> Aside from that, 1.9
is wicked fun, I threw together a smallish pack for Blood
Magic
L54[03:31:14] <Kodos> I will be glad for
Forge 1.9.2 though
L55[03:31:20] <Kodos> Since there was an AI
Memory leak in 1.9
L56[03:32:24] <Lizzy> Urghh, morning I
suppose
L57[03:32:43] <Kodos> I also like 1.9's
boats
L58[03:32:50] <Kodos> No longer do they
break when you rush into the shore
L59[03:32:57] <Kodos> And you can smack
them like minecarts, and get them back
L60[03:33:14] <Kodos> Mornin, Lizzy
L61[03:34:29] <Lizzy> Do boats still have
shit handling physics in 1.9?
L62[03:36:55] <Kodos> Not sure. I have no
problems controlling them but that may just be m
L64[03:39:01] ⇨
Joins: techno156 (~techno156@137.154.59.97)
L65[03:52:49] <g> MC's boats have been
broken in multiplayer for some time
L66[03:53:03] <g> I remember when my
community moved to 1.8, and the boats were moving faster on the
client than on the server
L67[03:53:14] <g> lots of desyncs
L68[03:53:24] <g> you get out of a boat and
you're like 5 chunks behind where you thought you were
L69[03:56:12] <Kodos> If I had half a
brain, I'd plug in that Flight Sim mod and just use a plane to get
places
L70[03:58:04] ⇦
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L71[03:59:46] <Kodos> Bleh, why has no one
done a satellite uplink addon for OC yet :x
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L73[04:00:49] ⇨
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L74[04:01:47] <Forecaster> I want
directional wifi antennas
L75[04:01:49] <Forecaster> :P
L76[04:05:30] <g> Just make a little json
broadcast server in python or something :P
L77[04:05:35] <g> @ Kodos
L78[04:06:42] <Kodos> Lol
L79[04:06:48] <Kodos> You're implying I
know, or have the patience to learn, python
L80[04:06:57] <g> It'd be like a 4 line
python script
L81[04:06:57] <Kodos> Hell, took me a year
now to get where I am with Lua
L82[04:08:39] <g> well okay, probably more
than 4 lines but you get me
L84[04:09:12] *
Lizzy hmms
L88[04:09:37] <Shuudoushi> I require sleep,
but cannot get any sleep...
L89[04:10:23] <Lizzy> insomnia
L90[04:10:30] <Shuudoushi> pretty
much
L91[04:10:43] <g> Do-do, do do do, do do
do, do do, do-do..
L92[04:11:07] *
Shuudoushi slaps g.
L93[04:11:07] *
EnderBot2 laughs
L95[04:11:30] <Shuudoushi> ENGLISH
MOTHERFUCKER! DO YOU SPEAK IT?!
L96[04:11:32] <Shuudoushi> lol
L97[04:11:44] <g> well you said
insomnia
L100[04:12:00] <MichiBot>
Faithless -
Insomnia | length:
3m 35s | Likes:
24917 Dislikes:
641 Views:
4649304 | by
FaithlessVEVO
L101[04:12:14] <Shuudoushi> ...
L102[04:15:07] <Shuudoushi> I was going to
look something up on youtube but forgot what it was...
L103[04:15:26] <Shuudoushi> 74 hours
without sleep is a cunt...
L104[04:15:37] <g> I'd believe it
L105[04:23:28] <Forecaster> actually
having satellites would be cooler >:
L106[04:25:38] <Lizzy> %lookup
znc.theender.net
L107[04:25:39] <MichiBot> Lizzy: DNS Info
for znc.theender.net 107.191.47.156 2001:19f0:6800:8161::1
L108[04:32:35] <Kodos> Forecaster, without
Galacticraft/AR though, I'm not sure how to get a satellite into
'space'
L109[04:32:57] <Forecaster> launching
micro satellites wouldn't require a lot of equipment
L110[04:33:07] <Kodos> Hm
L111[04:33:18] <Shuudoushi> have a robot
place a floating block at 245
L112[04:33:25] <Kodos> Would a Satellite
Uplink card be T2 or T3
L113[04:33:34] <Kodos> Leaning towards
T3
L114[04:33:38] <Forecaster> probably
L115[04:34:03] <Kodos> Though, I'd wanna
make it so it only goes into Relays
L116[04:35:13] <Izaya> send a drone up to
256
L117[04:35:16] <Izaya> boom, a
sattelite
L118[04:35:22] <Izaya> if you went two
more blocks it'd be untouchable
L119[04:35:39] <Lizzy> hmm
L120[04:35:50] *
Lizzy just had an interesting idea
L121[04:35:55] <Forecaster> that's not the
same :P
L122[04:36:11] <Izaya> >.> fscking
hell
L123[04:36:15] <Kodos> Speaking of, I
still need to make my bee thinger into a microcontroller
program
L124[04:36:18] <Izaya> how can I actually
disable suspend on lid close?
L125[04:36:26] <Kodos> Power options
L126[04:36:27] <Kodos> Should be
L127[04:36:27] <Izaya> it's disabled in
logind.conf
L128[04:36:29] <Lizzy> Izaya, hammer
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L131[04:36:37] <Izaya> and it's fresh
debian
L132[04:36:39] <Izaya> so
L133[04:36:56] <Lizzy> Izaya, checked the
settings dialog in whatever DE it uses?
L134[04:37:08] <Izaya> no DE
L135[04:37:10] <Izaya> no DM
L136[04:37:18] <Izaya> just console
debian
L137[04:37:26] <Lizzy> weird
L138[04:39:04] <Izaya> seems to work fine
after a reboot
L139[04:39:10] <Izaya> wonderful Red Hat
software
L140[04:39:52] <Lizzy> also the idea i had
wasn't for satelite data transfer, but if you devised s system with
drones spaced out a set distance whilst up high which when someone
sends a boardcast (of say, "GPS" on port 30 or whatever)
it responds back directly to the requesting machine with it's world
position
L141[04:40:28] <Lizzy> once it gets a few
responses back it should attempt to determine where it is
L142[04:40:59] <Forecaster> how would you
even send boards up that high?
L143[04:41:13] <Lizzy> *broadcast, not
boardcast
L144[04:41:16] *
Lizzy slaps Forecaster
L145[04:41:17] *
EnderBot2 high-fives Lizzy
L146[04:41:23] *
Lizzy high-fives EnderBot2
L147[04:41:28] <Forecaster> I regret
nothing!
L148[04:41:47] <Izaya> ... and now it's
suspended
L149[04:41:56] <Izaya> despite being
closed for like 3 minutes
L150[04:42:02] *
Izaya is confused
L151[04:42:19] <Lizzy> could probably also
do with varying height drones / whatever so you could get a bit
better guess as to where you are
L152[04:44:26] <Kodos> I remember way back
when using LeoSAT for global GPS
L153[04:46:39] <Lizzy> ...
L154[04:48:00] <Kodos> I still want to
work out how to make repeater towers with just access points,
capacitors, power converters, and a solar panel
L155[04:48:11] *
Lizzy stabs her wifi
L156[04:58:04] <snowden89> lol mesh net,
of drones
L157[04:58:08] <snowden89> flooding the
world
L158[04:58:10] <snowden89> :P
L159[04:58:17] <Izaya> yup
L160[04:58:20] <Izaya> being worked
on
L161[04:59:49] <snowden89> what i need is
1 cm diameter portals
L162[05:00:24] <snowden89> so i can put
one end on a side of fibre network cable
L163[05:00:35] <snowden89> and the other
side on a dedicated
L164[05:00:43] <snowden89> low end
dedi*
L165[05:00:57] <Forecaster> that'd be the
true use of a portal gun
L166[05:01:02] <Forecaster> power and data
transfer :P
L167[05:01:32] <snowden89> get 6 dedicated
machines and a modem at home for bonding/load balancing my
connection
L168[05:01:47] <snowden89> and a spare
pocket rpi access point
L169[05:01:50] <snowden89> so i am always
online
L170[05:01:52] <snowden89> :P
L171[05:01:54] <Izaya> I want to get a
second connection and bond them
L172[05:03:27] <snowden89> i am dieing
today
L173[05:03:33] <snowden89> seriously only
10 jobs
L174[05:03:41] <snowden89> done due to
such a slow day
L175[05:03:51] <snowden89> no one is
calling so i am like never going to meet jpoui
L176[05:03:55] <snowden89> kpi*
L177[05:04:28] <snowden89>
asdfghjkl;'
L178[05:04:39] <snowden89> :( did not mean
to press enter.
L179[05:05:05] <snowden89> was checking if
any input lag on my keyboard when pressing multiple keys at
once
L180[05:08:25] <Lizzy> hmm, debating
whether i want to switch to Sophos for my AV since i can get it for
free from work (I manage the AV servers :P) and Avast has really
being going ot shit recently
L182[05:10:35] <Izaya> I'm told Avira is
good
L183[05:10:51] <Izaya> I haven't tried it
though, don't use Windows enough to warrant installing AV
L184[05:13:19] <Forecaster> I only have
the default protections on my machine
L185[05:15:41] <Izaya> that said I have
ClamAV on my desktop
L186[06:00:38] <snowden89> i use
clamAV
L187[06:17:33] <xandaros> I don't have any
AV
L188[06:44:28]
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L189[06:44:40] <Cube|Web> ayy?
L190[06:46:53] ⇦
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L191[06:48:08] *
vifino groans and flops on Lizzy
L192[06:48:19] *
Lizzy pets the vifino
L193[06:48:44] <vifino> My cousin had the
great idea of "fixing" the very carefully set up freebsd
jailed webstack by rebooting it. Now shit is broken.
L194[06:48:54] <vifino> Fucking
hell.
L195[06:49:14] *
vifino purrs
L196[06:51:30] <Izaya> Your setup won't
survive an unexpected reboot?
L197[06:52:18] <vifino> Izaya: It does,
but he managed to fuck it up.
L198[06:52:31] <Izaya> (I doubt mine could
but I'm not about to try)
L199[07:02:44] ⇦
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L202[07:20:20] <g> I've never managed to
get freebsd to survive a reboot
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L204[07:24:01] <Izaya> I've gotten a
FreeBSD box to survive several
L205[07:24:10] <Izaya> my worry is my
'criticial' linux boxen
L206[07:24:27] <g>
"boxen"?
L207[07:24:44] <Izaya> plural of box
L208[07:24:49] <g> you mean, boxes?
L210[07:24:53] <Izaya> no
L211[07:24:55] <Izaya> boxen
L212[07:25:03] <g> why do you people
insist on making up words
L214[07:25:07] <vifino> I think the word
you mean is "boxing".
L215[07:25:14] *
vifino ruuuuuuuns
L216[07:28:46] ⇦
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L218[07:42:54] <Kodos> I'm really torn...
I have two magic modpacks currently made. One is 1.7.10 and has
Witchery and BM1, and the other is 1.8.9 and has BM2 and
Intangible. But I want to play all 3 (Technically 4) mods
L219[07:44:26]
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L220[07:44:42] <Inari> Kodos: port
it
L221[07:44:48] <Kodos> lol
L222[07:56:56] <g> Inari: fanciful
L223[07:57:10] <g> "over-imaginative
and unrealistic."
L224[07:57:33] <Inari> k dont port
it
L225[07:57:49] <Inari> built a
compatibility layer into forge to handle older mods
L226[07:57:53] <Inari> *build
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L236[08:41:47] <vifino> Wow, that is
fucked up.
L237[08:46:18] <Izaya> ...
L238[08:46:43] <Izaya> You know the planet
is fucked up when this only mildly surprises you and makes you
angry
L239[08:47:41] ***
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L241[08:48:36] ***
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L242[09:06:14] <Inari> nah
L243[09:06:17] <Inari> the planet doesnt
actually care
L244[09:26:36] ⇦
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L246[09:41:23] <payonel> o/
L247[09:45:30] <Kodos> Okay, now to spend
4 hours updating my pack
L248[09:52:21]
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L250[10:00:15] <payonel> Izaya: what is
there to notice in that image?
L251[10:00:40] <Izaya> I have the XFCE
panel on a Windows VM
L252[10:01:58] <Izaya> Don't ask what live
animal I sacraficed to make that work.
L254[10:10:45] ***
Guest98014 is now known as Magik6k
L255[10:11:46] <Magik6k> Izaya, now make
it on Windows 10 reverse wine thing
L256[10:12:01] <Izaya> that would require
me to use Windows 10
L257[10:12:15] <Izaya> so uh
L258[10:12:17] <Izaya> no
L259[10:12:46] <g> still cool to hate on
the latest systems here I see
L260[10:12:59] <Izaya> never won't
be
L261[10:13:01] <Izaya> :D
L262[10:13:07] <Izaya> tbh I really like a
lot of Windows 10
L263[10:17:53] ⇦
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L265[10:25:32] <payonel> Izaya: ah,
nice
L266[10:25:35] <payonel> noice
L267[10:25:44] ⇦
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L270[11:16:00] <Inari> I feel pretty~
*sings* XD
L271[11:16:18] <Lizzy> Inari, that's
because oyu are :)
L272[11:16:23] <Inari> haha
L273[11:17:02] <Inari> well my jumperskirt
arrived and i like it a lot :P need to make a few parts of it a bit
tighter but otherwise it seems to fit well :P and need a petticoat
that properly fits it, the one i have curretnly isnt long
enough
L274[11:18:04] *
Forecaster looks up "jumperskirt"
L275[11:18:28] <Forecaster> OH
L276[11:18:33] <Forecaster> so that's what
that's called
L277[11:18:39] <Inari> Forecaster: in
lolita fashion basically skirt+top part, but sleeveless (since yotu
wear a blouse below it)
L278[11:18:53] <Inari> in more general
fashion just a skirt with those belty thingies/straps
L279[11:19:20] <Forecaster> I see
both
L281[11:20:44] <Forecaster> that's
pretty
L282[11:20:55] <Inari> it is~
L283[11:21:31] <Forecaster> anyone happen
to know what it's called when you have kind of a mix between a coat
and a dress?
L284[11:21:36] <Forecaster> with buttons
on the front
L286[11:23:00] <Kodos> Aren't they just
called Dress Coats?
L287[11:23:33] <Forecaster> hm I
guess
L288[11:31:08] <Temia> I dunno, I kind of
like that dress. o.o
L289[11:31:22] <Temia> It's not as busy as
some I've seen.
L290[11:32:38] ***
andreww is now known as xarses
L291[11:33:03] <Temia> Also I am a little
jealous :c I wish I had disposable income to dress up as an
EGL
L292[11:33:35] <xarses> Is it just me, or
did something change with the way minecraft sessions are validated?
I can't keep mine across different wireless networks anymore
L293[11:35:09] <g> They might be
IP-checked now
L294[11:35:15] <g> it'd make sense given
the session stealing that happens sometimes
L295[11:39:06] <xarses> there is alot more
that we can do besides that
L297[11:39:39] <Lizzy> Michiyo, i think
that url needs changing
L298[11:39:57] <g> xarses, actually that
reminds me
L299[11:40:06] <g> what did they do to
stop you stealing session tokens from people connecting to your
server?
L300[11:40:31] <g> I know it was ages ago,
but I forget the mechanism
L301[11:46:00] <xarses> no clue
L302[11:46:31] ***
rakiru|offline is now known as Kasen
L303[11:48:02] <Michiyo> Lizzy, why?
L304[11:48:23] <Lizzy> it used to link to
an image, now it goes to a standard page
L305[11:48:35] <Michiyo> Yeah, people kept
asking for context
L306[11:48:44] <Michiyo> so I just linked
to the page, instead of the image
L307[11:48:54] <Lizzy> ah
L308[11:49:26] <Kodos> Hope Vex actually
ends up doing that switch thing
L309[11:49:34] <Kodos> Since Sang
asked/told him to
L310[11:55:50] ⇦
Quits: Izaya (~Izaya@210.1.213.55) (Ping timeout: 201
seconds)
L311[12:00:36]
⇨ Joins: Izaya (~Izaya@210.1.213.55)
L312[12:05:42] ⇦
Quits: rikai (~quassel@rekd.net) (Ping timeout: 201
seconds)
L313[12:06:16] <Forecaster> I should not
be allowed to travel to the north pole
L315[12:06:56] <Forecaster> I'm a terrible
ice breaker...
L316[12:07:41] <Izaya> Indeed.
L317[12:08:34] <Skye> GAH
L318[12:09:08] <Izaya> you might be a good
Skye-breaker though
L319[12:09:17] <Izaya> :3
L320[12:09:21] <Skye> agahha
L321[12:09:25] *
Skye chokes
L322[12:09:57] <Temia> moo. `o`
L323[12:10:37] *
Lizzy pets Temia
L324[12:12:15] <Forecaster> I'm
terrible
L325[12:12:27] <Lizzy> yes
L326[12:12:36] <Izaya> quite
possibly
L327[12:14:39] <Forecaster> though Izaya
killed Skye > . >
L328[12:15:22] <vifino> vifino for
president
L329[12:15:39]
⇨ Joins: rikai (~quassel@rekd.net)
L330[12:16:05]
⇨ Joins: Keanu73
(~Keanu73@host-92-25-102-60.as13285.net)
L331[12:16:05] <Temia> Speaking of
death
L332[12:16:10] <Temia> It's Prince!
L334[12:16:51] <Izaya> ...
L335[12:16:53] <Izaya> huh
L336[12:16:57] <KittyKath> Temia: Who
that?
L338[12:17:54] <Kodos> YOu wanna know a fu
cked up thing?
L339[12:18:09] <Kodos> Friend of mine from
nearby Paisley Park was talking about the sky being purple earlier
today
L340[12:18:13] <CompanionCube> Izaya for
President 2016.
L341[12:18:29] <Izaya> :D
L342[12:18:29] <KittyKath> Kodos: Female
friend? :P
L343[12:18:31] <Izaya> Me?
L344[12:18:34] <Izaya> I never
L345[12:18:37] <Izaya> sure why not
L346[12:18:38] <Forecaster> Kodos: were
they on the drugs?
L347[12:18:47] <Temia> Right. I forgot I'm
the only one who actually grew up in the 90s. c.c;
L348[12:18:52] <KittyKath> CompanionCube:
Oh god no, they'll gonna kill all kids for the sake of not having
kids
L349[12:18:52] *
Izaya outlaws stupidity and puts the whole country in
jail
L350[12:19:06] <Temia> Kodos: purple rain,
maybe?
L351[12:19:39] <Izaya> KittyKath: I
wouldn't kill them all
L352[12:19:41] <Izaya> geez
L353[12:19:46] <Izaya> I'd just banish
them to like
L354[12:19:48] <Izaya> space or
something
L355[12:20:20] <Forecaster> and pollute
space?
L357[12:20:30] <MichiBot>
Savage Garden
To the moon and back | length:
3m 52s | Likes:
29467 Dislikes:
497 Views:
7303180 | by
semmi1976
L358[12:20:54] <Izaya> While I didn't grow
up in the '90s, my sisters did.
L360[12:21:13] <payonel> cats are
cool
L361[12:21:31] <Forecaster> I was aged
1-10 in the 90s :P
L362[12:21:32] <Izaya> Forecaster: how
much harm could they do in the week it takes to starve/dehydrate to
death?
L363[12:21:47] <Forecaster> stupidity will
find a way D:
L364[12:22:31] *
vifino sighs
L365[12:22:35] *
vifino curls up on Lizzy
L366[12:23:05] ⇦
Quits: BearishMushroom
(~BearishMu@90-231-174-194-no159.tbcn.telia.com) (Read error:
Connection reset by peer)
L367[12:23:22] <xandaros> Am I right in
assuming that internet.socket returns a stream that is always in
duplex binary mode? (rwb)
L368[12:24:18] <Izaya> so I set up myself
an email server either today or yesterday or the day before
L369[12:24:20] <Izaya> but it feels like
today
L370[12:24:28] <Izaya> I now realise that
I never recieve or send email
L371[12:24:33] <Izaya> except for
thursday/fridays
L372[12:24:48] <Izaya> at which point I
get some random subscriptions
L373[12:25:01] *
Lizzy poets vifino
L374[12:25:07] *
Lizzy mehs
L375[12:25:23] *
Izaya imagines vifino with a poet hat or whatever they're
called
L376[12:25:51] <CompanionCube> Izaya, I
only check my mail periodically unless i'm expecting shit
L377[12:26:10] *
vifino purrs
L378[12:26:12] <CompanionCube> and even
then, it's Yahoo Mail
L379[12:26:45] *
vifino is recreating "Spooky Scary Skeletons" with MLG
Horns and Snoop Dogg
L380[12:27:04] <Izaya> I always have
thunderbird open
L381[12:27:11] <Izaya> but that's because
I have a bunch of feeds in there
L382[12:27:51] <Forecaster> new particle
effects teased in the SE update video look cool...
L384[12:29:22] <Forecaster> byobu
\o/
L385[12:30:50] <Temia> '-' ...
L386[12:31:05] <Skye> I have a real life
serial terminal
L387[12:31:12] *
Temia plugs her DEC terminal in and basks in the genuine green
phosphors
L388[12:31:21] *
Skye has a Wyse 120
L389[12:31:59] <Temia> VT420 here. Got it
off Freecycle.
L390[12:32:15] <vifino> waaaaaat
L391[12:32:18] *
Izaya has an 800Mhz eMac with a 17" CRT
L392[12:32:39] <vifino> I'm jelly.
L393[12:32:50] <vifino> I want a fancy
VT420, Temia. :<
L394[12:32:56] <Temia> Got an old Amiga
monitor sitting beside my terminal too.
L395[12:32:59] *
Temia patpat
L396[12:33:22] <vifino> ;_;
L397[12:33:32] *
vifino sobs
L398[12:33:43] <CompanionCube> vifino, are
you getting all jelly over someone else's hardware again
L399[12:33:57] <vifino> CompanionCube: how
dare you
L400[12:34:06] <CompanionCube> :3
L401[12:34:11] <Izaya> I want a PDP-11 but
I don't have one
L402[12:34:13] *
CompanionCube huggles vifino
L403[12:34:14] <Izaya> but on the
upside
L404[12:34:18] <Izaya> no-one else here
seems to either
L405[12:34:23] <CompanionCube> Izaya,
plus
L406[12:34:28] <CompanionCube> where would
you store it
L407[12:34:33] <Izaya> aha
L408[12:34:39] <Izaya> a
Micro-PDP-11
L409[12:34:47] <Izaya> only the size of a
few ATX towers
L410[12:35:01] <Izaya> but significantly
louder and more power-hungry
L411[12:35:05] <vifino> Izaya: I fixed up
a PDP 11 dynamic binary translator if you are interested in running
UNIX V1-V7 PDP-11 binaries.
L412[12:35:29] <Izaya> vifino: you showed
me, but I have other plans involving PDP-11s and emulation
L413[12:35:31] <Izaya> soon(TM)
L414[12:35:54] <CompanionCube> didn't
someone make a fpga
L415[12:36:03] <CompanionCube> *program a
fpga
L416[12:36:05] <CompanionCube> for a
PDP-11
L417[12:36:14] <Izaya> FPGAs are
expensiiiive
L418[12:37:21] <vifino> FUCK
L419[12:37:36] <CompanionCube> ?
L420[12:37:44] <vifino> My midi keyboard
died.
L421[12:38:40] <vifino> [21297.720692] usb
usb3-port1: unable to enumerate USB device
L422[12:38:46] <vifino> similar messages
on all devices.
L424[12:39:32] <vifino> or it fries usb
ports.
L425[12:39:37] <vifino> greeeeat.
L426[12:41:21] <Skye> that's even
worse
L427[12:42:10] <Izaya> if that is the
case
L428[12:42:20] <Izaya> I believe you will
need to bold your previous exclamation
L429[12:42:55] <CompanionCube> Skye, did
you hear about my thing with lanschool webhelper
L430[12:43:23] <Skye> eh?
L431[12:44:10] <CompanionCube> I noticed
it has a tendency to crash when you visit long URLs
L432[12:44:16] <xandaros> payonel: Closing
a buffered stream does not flush it? (OpenOS 1.5)
L433[12:44:17] <CompanionCube> Spot the
issue with that.
L434[12:44:39] ⇦
Quits: Icedream (~icedream@has.streaminginter.net) (Ping timeout:
384 seconds)
L435[12:44:48] <Skye> uh?
L436[12:46:04] <payonel> xandaros: it
does
L437[12:46:24] <payonel> if it has write
enabled
L438[12:46:33] <CompanionCube> Skye, do
you smell a buffer overflow because it only crashes with
particularly...long URLs
L439[12:46:45] <Skye> ooh
L440[12:46:48] ⇦
Quits: fingercomp
(~fingercom@host-46-50-128-141.bbcustomer.zsttk.net) (Quit:
.)
L441[12:46:49] <Skye> hack it?
L442[12:47:10] <CompanionCube> doubt it's
exploitable
L444[12:47:21] <CompanionCube> other than
crashing
L445[12:47:32] <xandaros> As it is, that
creates an empty paste. If I enable the flush, it pastes
properly
L446[12:51:54]
⇨ Joins: Icedream
(~icedream@has.streaminginter.net)
L447[12:58:37]
⇨ Joins: sciguyryan (~sciguyrya@95.211.148.234)
L448[13:18:54] <xandaros> payonel: are
io.stdin and io.stdout streams? If so, are they buffered?
L449[13:20:36] <payonel> stdin, stdout,
and stderr are streams and they are buffered
L450[13:21:17] <xandaros> Awesome, thanks.
That makes their binding remarkably easy :)
L451[13:22:30] <payonel> xandaros: stream
mode default is r
L452[13:22:43] <payonel> so if you're
creating a buffered stream and you don't specify the mode, it'll be
read mode
L453[13:22:50] <payonel> which maybe is
weird?
L454[13:23:05] <payonel> anyways, it'll
actually fail to write in 1.6
L455[13:23:12] <payonel> for 1.5, it'll
allow writes
L456[13:23:19] <payonel> (over the
buffer)
L457[13:23:23] <xandaros> I'm saving the
mode in the normal steam, my fromStream function makes use of
that
L458[13:23:24] <payonel> which i don't
like
L459[13:23:46] <payonel> you have to
explicity pass "w" or "a" to the mode when
creating the buffer
L460[13:23:51] <xandaros> To determine
what to pass to buffer.new
L461[13:23:57] <payonel>
buffer.new("rw", stream)
L462[13:24:12] <payonel> ok, well then it
should flush on close
L463[13:24:24] <payonel> if you have
"w" set
L465[13:26:15] <payonel> you're taking the
mode from the stream
L466[13:26:30] <payonel> i dont know what
mode the internet open actuallys SAYS it has
L467[13:26:36] <xandaros> Looks like I
haven't pushed my changes from earlier, so I can't show you
tcpOpen. Anyway, it sets mode
L468[13:27:23] <xandaros> I'm using rwb,
which is what it passes to buffer.new
L469[13:27:29] <xandaros> Should be
fine
L470[13:28:36] <payonel> i'd debug what
mode you're getting though
L471[13:28:49] <payonel> xandaros: also,
if you can repro this IN lua in openos, that would be awesome
L472[13:29:07] <payonel> then i'll test it
in my own branch work and make sure we're in a good place with
that
L473[13:30:43] <xandaros> I can give you
the compiled output of you want xP
L474[13:30:55] <xandaros> I'll see what I
can do. The code is simple enough
L475[13:31:00]
⇨ Joins: lashtear
(~lashtear@cpe-50-113-67-84.san.res.rr.com)
L476[13:31:31] <payonel> let me be picky.
i'd only want a single lua file to prove the bug
L477[13:32:30] <xandaros> I don't actually
know how to determine the mode of a stream, it doesn't seem to
store it
L478[13:32:53] <xandaros> A single one?
Hmm, I've got like 30 at the moment xD
L479[13:33:11] <payonel> those 'stream'
objects are more like interfaces
L480[13:33:45] <payonel> i only require
they implement a few methods, write, read, close, etc
L481[13:33:54] <payonel> but mode is not
required
L482[13:33:57] <payonel> buffer keeps the
mode
L483[13:34:07] <payonel> but that's just
buffer :)
L484[13:34:32] <xandaros> Yeah, it does.
It means you have to specify the mode twice, though
L485[13:34:55] <xandaros> But as I said, I
simply store the mode on the stream :P
L486[13:35:07] <payonel> i didnt see where
you store mode on the tcp stream object
L487[13:35:19] <payonel> but you're saying
your tcpOpen adds a mode key?
L488[13:35:25] <xandaros> It does
L489[13:35:40] <xandaros> I forgot to push
earlier. On the train atm
L490[13:35:59] <payonel> oh i see
L491[13:36:02] <payonel> ok then i dont
know
L492[13:36:04] <payonel> sounds like a
bug
L493[13:36:27] <xandaros> I store the mode
in the type, too. Trying to write to a read only stream doesn't
actually compile :)
L494[13:43:09] <vifino> I fixed my midi
keyboard halfway. I only took it apart once, which I am proud
of.
L496[13:53:37] ⇦
Quits: cpup (~cpup@32.218.114.194) (Ping timeout: 201
seconds)
L497[13:55:07] <xandaros> payonel: are
stdin, stdout and stderr in binary mode? Are they seekable?
L498[13:55:16] <payonel> they are not
seekable
L499[13:55:42] <payonel> and the
"core" std io are just passthroughs to term.read and
term.write
L500[13:55:59] <payonel> well,
technically, term.readKeyboard and term.drawText
L501[13:56:18] <payonel> term.read calls
io.stdin:read and term.write calls io.stdout:write
L502[13:56:48] <payonel> the other api for
a stream on the core streams do nothing. e.g. close and seek do
nothing
L504[13:57:17] <xandaros> So... Do they
behave like in binary mode or not? xD need that info for the
type
L505[13:59:07]
⇨ Joins: cpup (~cpup@32.218.117.173)
L506[13:59:08] <Temia> That article
could've used a proofreader.
L507[13:59:21] <payonel> the core io
passthrough does no interpretation, so binary in that sense
L508[13:59:34] ⇦
Quits: Icedream (~icedream@has.streaminginter.net) (Read error:
Connection reset by peer)
L509[13:59:40] <payonel> but
term.readKeyboard is completely based on key events
L510[13:59:45] <payonel> so interpreted in
that sense, text mode
L511[14:00:00] <payonel> and term.write
also interprets the bytes, for smart display purposes, so very
textual in that case
L512[14:00:14] <payonel> but when we say
"stdio", that is a concept, and not always the same
stream
L513[14:00:21] <payonel> stdin is fd 0 on
a process
L514[14:00:27] <payonel> that could be a
file handle, or the readKeyboard
L515[14:00:36] <payonel> the io library
does not interpret the stream, so binary
L516[14:00:54] <payonel> the buffer
library allows for interpretation, such as if you call
read("*l")
L517[14:01:02] <payonel> so in that sense,
it is text-like
L518[14:04:28] <payonel> xandaros: also,
1.5 is very much not in spec of this
L519[14:04:39] <payonel> this area was one
of the big improvements i made to openos
L520[14:05:30] <Forecaster> has nobody
made a tetris game in OC?
L521[14:06:34] ⇦
Quits: cpup (~cpup@32.218.117.173) (Ping timeout: 201
seconds)
L522[14:08:20] <xandaros> Yeah, I just
haven't updated yet. The bindings are for 1.6 already. Anyway, the
whole binary vs text thing is confusing
L523[14:08:42] <xandaros> Also, yay mobile
data... :/
L524[14:09:21] <payonel> buffer doesn't
assume text, nor does the io library
L525[14:09:32] <payonel> they treat the
data binaryly
L526[14:10:07] <payonel> but, if the io is
on term, then it behaves textually, which is fine. are we execting
a user is connecting a serial port to their oc computer and trying
to push binary data over the keyboard input?
L527[14:10:40] <payonel> but for your
purposes, consider io and buffer as binary streams
L528[14:11:43] <xandaros> Alright, I'll do
that :D might cause some inconsistencies, I guess :/
L529[14:12:04] <xandaros> Not sure where
binary and text actually behave differently
L530[14:12:29] <xandaros> When having
unicode in a string, I guess
L531[14:12:38]
⇨ Joins: cpup (~cpup@32.218.117.200)
L532[14:13:23] <payonel> text mode just
means a stream assumes it is passing text
L533[14:13:35] <payonel> so it has
interpretation, like what is a "line"
L534[14:13:47] <payonel> binary mode means
the stream doesn't touch it
L535[14:14:05] <payonel> as far as unicode
and multibyte chars are concerned, read lenths are always in
bytes
L536[14:14:13] <payonel> again, just
assume it is binary
L537[14:15:27] <xandaros> Hmm, that's an
interesting point. What happens if I try to read a line in binary
mode? Will it fail?
L538[14:15:46] <payonel> on a buffered
stream? no it won't fail
L539[14:15:53] <payonel> the buffer will
interpret it for you
L540[14:16:19] <payonel> on a raw stream?
i dont think raw streams support read("*l")
L541[14:16:36] <payonel> but, now we're
stepping outside of openos and this is a lua api question
L542[14:16:44] <payonel> and i'm an expert
on openos, not lua :)
L543[14:16:47] <xandaros> They don't. At
least not in my interface
L544[14:18:19] <xandaros> Hmm... It would
make sense to prohibit readLine on binary mode streams, but if I
make stdin binary, that'd be annoying. Guess I won't do anything
with the binary tag - just have it serve as documentation
L545[14:18:34] <gamax92> Hey :3
L546[14:18:43] <payonel> o/
L547[14:18:49] <xandaros> Maybe I'll
remove it completely. That'd make things a lot easier xD
L548[14:19:28] <payonel> aren't you
wrapping everything with buffer?
L549[14:19:50] <gamax92> payonel: what's
being discussed
L550[14:20:05] <payonel> gamax92: are
streams in openos binary or text
L551[14:20:11] <payonel> they are binary,
but can behave textually
L552[14:20:31] <gamax92> doesn't text mode
just try to pass it through the unicode api?
L553[14:20:44] <xandaros> No, I have
buffered and unbuffered streams
L554[14:20:50] <payonel> in more general
terms, text mode means it is "interpreted"
L555[14:21:06] <payonel> xandaros: ok, i
say only support readLine on buffered streams :)
L556[14:21:13] <payonel> but meh
L557[14:21:16] <payonel> :)
L558[14:21:19] <payonel> i dont care what
you do there
L559[14:21:32] <xandaros> Oh, readLine is
only supported on buffered streams
L560[14:21:36] <payonel> yes
L561[14:21:48] <payonel> it is the buffer
library that calculates that logic
L562[14:22:01] <xandaros> No, I mean in my
implementation
L563[14:22:03] <gamax92> binary is if the
stream doesn't modify it input, text mode is if it does, and for
simplicity's sake like linux or so just make them both binary
L564[14:22:04] <xandaros> ...
L565[14:22:27] <payonel> yeah,
"modify" or "interpret" but yes
L566[14:22:43] <payonel> binary mode
essentially doesn't touch or look at what it is, but just assumes
raw bits
L567[14:22:47] <Temia> Ooh, interesting.
The loop data's intact on the ADX files ripped from Ar Tonelico I
& II, but gstreamer/VLC doesn't parse them at all.
L569[14:22:59] <gamax92> payonel: I
thought it was stabbing it through the unicode api.
L570[14:23:40] <xandaros> read, write,
close and seek are all the operations I support on unbuffered
streams
L571[14:23:44]
⇨ Joins: Icedream
(~icedream@has.streaminginter.net)
L574[14:24:51] <gamax92> Temia: ooh?
:o
L575[14:25:05] <payonel> gamax92: yes
that's an example where it "can behave textually"
L576[14:25:25] <payonel> but
read("*a") for example, does not interpret the bits
L577[14:25:48] <gamax92> payonel: I'm
still confused why sangar made that an option.
L578[14:25:58] <payonel> for
simplicity
L579[14:26:04] <gamax92> what?
L580[14:26:28] <gamax92> how is it simpler
to add all these if statements for using rawlen/string.sub vs
unicode.len/unicode.sub
L581[14:26:33] <Michiyo> So... I'm getting
the fuck out of this job ASAP
L582[14:26:39] <xandaros> I don't support
read number so I'm fine :D
L583[14:26:54] <gamax92> xandaros: it's in
readBytesOrChars too
L584[14:26:55] <Temia> Yeah, it's pretty
neat. It apparently uses type 04 loop data, and has a goodly
populated set of loop start/end data
L585[14:27:20] <Temia> But googling
around, I can't find any good information on whether gstreamer even
supports the ADX container's loop information
L586[14:27:49] <payonel> gamax92: oh
that's weird. thank you. i glossed over that too quickly every
time. i never tested or messed with readNumber
L587[14:28:04] <payonel> you are right.
that is treating binary mode as a unicode flag
L588[14:28:16] <gamax92> theoretically ...
using text mode in OpenOS means it can destroy everything not UTF-8
and destroy anything after a NUL
L589[14:28:35] <payonel> that's a bit
heavy handed to say it that way
L590[14:28:40] <payonel> it is only used
on SOME of the reads
L591[14:28:44] <gamax92> also it might
destroy all UTF-8 above 0xFFFF, I know there are various issue with
that in the unicode api
L592[14:28:50] <gamax92> payonel:
"theoretically" :)
L593[14:29:00] <payonel> sure :)
L594[14:29:23] <payonel> i would remove
that check :) in those two functions
L595[14:29:45] <payonel> and force users
that think their streams will have junk to clean up the bits before
pushing it through the buffered stream api :)
L596[14:29:56] <payonel> for to
readNumber
L597[14:30:02] <gamax92> ehh, does
buffered streams require UTF-8?
L598[14:30:02] <payonel> or, heck, not
have readNumber in buffer
L599[14:30:31] <payonel> gamax92: execpt
for these two example you point out, no -- buffer doesn't
care
L600[14:30:41] <payonel> well, and now i
doubt what i know about the entirely of the lib
L601[14:30:45] <payonel> but in my tests,
it doesn't care
L602[14:30:46] <gamax92> well also if it's
text mode
L603[14:31:04] *
gamax92 does tests
L604[14:32:24] ⇦
Quits: Icedream (~icedream@has.streaminginter.net) (Ping timeout:
190 seconds)
L605[14:38:02] <gamax92> if you put a mod
item into a chest, remove the mod and load the world, then put the
mod back, is the item still in the chest?
L606[14:38:13] <Forecaster> no
L607[14:38:18] <gamax92> okau
L608[14:38:20] <Forecaster> not if the
chest was loaded
L609[14:38:39]
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(~icedream@has.streaminginter.net)
L610[14:38:55] ⇦
Quits: Icedream (~icedream@has.streaminginter.net) (Client
Quit)
L611[14:41:50] <Michiyo> fml it's
hot
L612[14:42:06] <payonel> Michiyo: what's
wrong with your job today?
L613[14:42:31] <Michiyo> Well, you know my
adventures in the pirate movie box
L614[14:42:49] <payonel> i do
L615[14:42:58] <payonel> or i mean,
"Arrg!"
L616[14:43:02] <Michiyo> Boss tells me
we're not going to sell them, the guy trying to get us to sell them
called me yesterday to ask if we needed help getting the Store Demo
setup, which I was very confused about
L617[14:43:03] <payonel> or is that,
Arrgh
L618[14:43:16] <Michiyo> turns out boss
told him we'd sell it, and is telling me we won't.
L619[14:43:28] <payonel> Michiyo:
yesterday you said your boss said you _are_
L620[14:43:29] <Michiyo> cust
L621[14:43:36] <payonel> so then boss
changed his mind and told you no?
L622[14:43:40] <payonel> and didn't update
seller?
L623[14:46:29] ⇦
Quits: cpup (~cpup@32.218.117.200) (Ping timeout: 384
seconds)
L624[14:47:23] <gamax92> payonel: both
unicode.sub and unicode.len can mutate garbage
L625[14:47:37]
⇨ Joins: cpup (~cpup@32.218.118.41)
L626[14:48:24] <payonel> by mutate you
mean change the output?
L627[14:48:32] <gamax92> yes
L628[14:48:43] <payonel> if so, yes --
i've tested that as well
L629[14:48:47] <gamax92> oh, need to check
something
L630[14:48:58] <payonel> what are you
trying to conclude/determine?
L631[14:49:07] <gamax92> payonel: I
dunno
L632[14:49:10] <payonel> haha ok
L633[14:49:12] <gamax92> just sharing
stuff
L634[14:49:38] <payonel> yeah, in
term.write i found i needed to use the unicode helper methods
carefully
L635[14:49:51] <payonel> if you cut wrong,
you lose data or create garbage
L636[14:49:56] <payonel> so i only cut
where i know i am safe to cut
L637[14:50:35] <gamax92> payonel: and
unicode.sub will not preserve UTF-8 above 0xFFFF
L638[14:51:24] <payonel> i dont test above
0xffff
L639[14:51:55] <gamax92> payonel: but what
if for some reason someone used a buffer in text mode with
character above that (very specific, I know :P)
L640[14:53:10] <gamax92> anyway I'm gonna
go watch youtube
L641[14:55:47] <payonel> then stuff would
break :)
L642[14:59:27] <Altenius> What's the size
ratio of pixels on a screen?
L643[14:59:28] <Michiyo> back, had a mini
rush there, lol
L644[14:59:51] <Michiyo> But yes, boss
said today we're not going to, and that he had told the seller the
same
L645[15:00:29] <Inari> "also, its
high waisted, so its food friendly"
L646[15:00:30] <Inari> haha
L647[15:00:45] <Michiyo> Said no because
"My opinion of it will be negatively biased, and I'm not going
to sell something I don't believe in" While also bitching at
me for saying it sources pirated content
L648[15:01:40] <Michiyo> he said that it's
not pirated content if this box accesses it, I told him I've seen
these plugins ,and the sources it IS pirated content, he said it's
only pirated content if I configure it to do it..
L649[15:02:38] <Michiyo> Then he went on
this whole thing about computers aren't illegal but you can do
illegal things on them, like "pornography" This confused
me a decent bit lol
L650[15:03:01] <Forecaster> but porn is a
health hazard you know
L651[15:03:20] <Forecaster> (in
Utah)
L652[15:03:46] <Michiyo> Guy just called
again, I don't know what the fuck to do
L653[15:04:09] <Michiyo> I don't know if
we're selling them, if we're not... I DO know I have some
applications to turn in on my day off tomorrow
L654[15:04:31]
⇨ Joins: LuMistry
(uid146685@id-146685.charlton.irccloud.com)
L655[15:04:35] <LuMistry> Greetings
L656[15:04:48] <Forecaster> what do you
mean turn in?
L657[15:08:57] <Michiyo> Forecaster, drop
off, I've filled them out, I need to take them in
L658[15:09:15] <Forecaster> ooh,
applications
L659[15:09:19] <Forecaster> I thought
"programs"
L660[15:09:24] <Forecaster> I get it now
:P
L661[15:11:01] <Michiyo> ahh lol
L662[15:14:12] ⇦
Quits: sciguyryan (~sciguyrya@95.211.148.234) (Remote host closed
the connection)
L663[15:19:50]
⇨ Joins: MajGenRelativity
(~MajGenRel@c-73-186-66-242.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
L664[15:27:43]
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(~icedream@has.streaminginter.net)
L665[15:33:06] ***
brandon3055 is now known as brandon3055|zzz
L666[15:33:59]
⇨ Joins: Yepoleb
(~yepoleb@178-191-134-130.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
L667[15:45:05] <Michiyo> UPS just ran to
pickup drop off packages... as he's heading out the door he drops a
package from shoulder height on concrete hope there wasn't anything
breakable in there.. :/
L668[15:45:13] <Stary2001> :l
L669[15:49:18] <Inari> is there a length
limit in slither.io?
L670[15:51:05] ⇦
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seconds)
L671[15:54:39]
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L672[15:57:15]
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seconds)
L675[16:04:02] <gamax92> OmegaCenti: you
forget that in slither.io you can cross yourself, but can't in
snake
L676[16:04:37] <OmegaCenti> holy smokes..
I had no idea what slither.io was...
L677[16:04:44] <OmegaCenti> and then
googled it, and then my jaw dropped
L678[16:04:47] ⇦
Quits: lashtear (~lashtear@cpe-50-113-67-84.san.res.rr.com) (Remote
host closed the connection)
L679[16:04:55] <OmegaCenti> I thought I
was making a joke, but apparently... it's relevant
L680[16:06:23] <gamax92> the intro
animation in slither.io with the wavy logo is so laggy for me
X3
L681[16:06:31] <Inari> lol
L682[16:07:14] <gamax92> OmegaCenti: the
whole thing about slither.io is don't run your head into other
snakes.
L683[16:07:18] <Inari> for some reason i
keep thinking "trump truck" when I see a huge fat america
snake
L684[16:07:35] <gamax92> and so you get
things like trying to trap others and forcing them to have no place
to run except into you
L685[16:07:44] <gamax92> and then you eat
them
L686[16:07:46] <Inari> lewd
L687[16:09:00] <OmegaCenti> I am
apparently very bad at beginning snake
L688[16:09:15] <gamax92> OmegaCenti: at
the beginning just avoid :P
L689[16:09:30] <gamax92> once you get some
mass on you, then you're already self threatening
L690[16:11:30]
⇨ Joins: Kimiro
(~TimeDrago@S0106c8fb2655ca42.ed.shawcable.net)
L691[16:12:48] ***
Tiktalik is now known as potato
L692[16:13:26] <Inari> i keep dying becaus
ei get greedy
L693[16:14:50] <gamax92> slutty
snake
L694[16:16:57] <LordFokas> what I don't
like in Slither is that it doesn't matter if you're a freaking
anaconda, an earthworm as long as you are wide can run in front of
you and kill you
L695[16:17:00] <OmegaCenti> Snake?!
SNAAAAAAAAAAKE!
L696[16:17:21] <LordFokas> you should be
able to straight out eat anything with less than half your
size
L697[16:19:47] <xandaros> payonel: Hah, I
did indeed forget to set the mode on tcpOpen. I did it properly on
filesystem.open, which is why I got confused
L699[16:20:05] <payonel> xandaros: :) well
good to know
L700[16:20:42] ⇦
Quits: Jezza (~Jezza@92.206.5.6) (Quit: Leaving)
L701[16:21:49]
⇨ Joins: lashtear
(~lashtear@cpe-50-113-67-84.san.res.rr.com)
L702[16:21:52] <LordFokas> OmegaCenti,
OMFGWTF
L703[16:22:08] <OmegaCenti> And that's a
full sized crocogator
L705[16:23:38] <LordFokas> ok, so you
should be able to straight out kill and eat anything that isn't at
least your size
L706[16:23:49] <xandaros> Interesting how
it allowed me to read and write despite not having the modes
enabled, though
L707[16:24:11] <xandaros> Well, reading
makes sense, since I was effectively passing nil
L708[16:29:43] ⇦
Quits: Keanu73 (~Keanu73@host-92-25-102-60.as13285.net) (Quit:
Gotta go to bed or something. See ya!)
L709[16:30:11] ⇦
Quits: Nathan1852
(~Nathan185@HSI-KBW-134-3-200-79.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
(Ping timeout: 384 seconds)
L710[16:30:24] *
vifino picks up Lizzy and carries her to bed
L711[16:30:41] *
Lizzy falls asleep on the way
L712[16:32:40] ⇦
Quits: Pyrolusite
(~Pyrolusit@arouen-651-1-410-131.w90-22.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit:
Leaving)
L713[16:37:22] <Inari> Lizzy: but vifino
will do lewd things to you while syou sleep
L714[16:37:23] <Inari> D:
L715[16:38:39] ***
amadornes is now known as amadornes[OFF]
L717[16:56:01] <gamax92> >_> what is
with this...
L718[16:56:31] <gamax92> Internet feels
sluggish, do a speed test and it hits 5Mbps, ... but why 5, it did
exactly 5 last time too
L719[16:56:33] <OmegaCenti> you
youngins
L720[16:56:40] <gamax92> and then after
resetting it it goes back to 16
L721[16:57:02] <OmegaCenti> back in my day
you got 14k and you LIKED IT!
L722[16:57:20] <vifino> * ERROR:
sys-devel/gcc-6.0.0_alpha20160306::toolchain failed (pretend
phase):
L723[16:57:20] <vifino> * Please `export
I_PROMISE_TO_SUPPLY_PATCHES_WITH_BUGS=1` or define it in your
make.conf if you want to use this version.
L724[16:57:31] <OmegaCenti> lmao
L725[16:57:56] <OmegaCenti> is this
joke?
L726[16:58:00] <vifino> Nope.
L727[16:58:03] <vifino> Real error
message
L728[16:58:15] <OmegaCenti> okay, but the
person who made this real error message
L729[16:58:19] <OmegaCenti> making
joke'?
L730[16:58:23] <vifino> .Nope.
L731[16:58:27] <OmegaCenti> WHAT
L732[16:58:40] <vifino> _alpha is in the
name.
L733[16:58:58] <OmegaCenti> oh, right,
sorry it was lost in 702139872asjhasdkljhawarglblargl2308
L734[16:59:10] <gamax92> OmegaCenti: good
for you, but back in your day you didn't have crap loads of css and
javascript :P
L735[16:59:12] <vifino> You use alpha
grade compilers and you should do it only if you know what you are
doing.
L736[16:59:25]
⇨ Joins: techno156 (~techno156@137.154.59.105)
L737[16:59:30] <OmegaCenti> I don't know
what I am doing! *flees*
L738[16:59:47] <OmegaCenti> I... I can
write print in lua!
L740[16:59:52] <Michiyo> Back in my day we
used <marquee> everywhere! :P
L741[17:00:16] <vifino> Ha! You're
oooooold!
L742[17:00:19] *
vifino ruuuuns
L743[17:00:20] <OmegaCenti> oh man, first
internet admittedly was aol online. remember
<h1><h2><h3><br>
L744[17:00:21] <Izaya> if you try to use
that
L745[17:00:24] <Izaya> I will stab
you
L746[17:00:27] <Izaya> over the
internet
L747[17:00:29] <Izaya> with a spork
L748[17:00:31] <Izaya> fucking
L749[17:00:39] *
Izaya paces silently
L750[17:00:45] <vifino> Use what?
L751[17:00:46] <Michiyo>
<blink>Nahbra</blink>
L752[17:01:04] *
OmegaCenti actually doesn't know what marquee is. googles
it
L753[17:01:05] <vifino>
I_PROMISE_TO_SUPPLY_PATCHES_WITH_BUGS=1? I'm okay with that,
tho
L756[17:01:34] <OmegaCenti> OH!!!
*THOSE*
L757[17:01:43] *
OmegaCenti kills it with fire
L758[17:01:49] <Michiyo> lol
L759[17:02:25] <Michiyo> Oh man... my
first website was an anime fan site.. it was horrible
L760[17:02:37] <OmegaCenti> I bet it had
the tiled background and EVERYTHING
L762[17:02:46] <Michiyo> Yeah.. and
frames..
L763[17:02:47] <CompanionCube> someone
implemented it
L764[17:02:51] <CompanionCube> in
javascript
L765[17:02:55] *
CompanionCube hides from Izaya
L766[17:02:57] <Izaya> CompanionCube: I am
safe!
L767[17:03:01] <Izaya> noscript ftw
L768[17:03:22] <CompanionCube> what would
you do if you found that programmer who wrote that
L769[17:03:23] <gamax92> Michiyo: my first
website was the cclite page
L770[17:03:35] <gamax92> and even that
isn't mine, because I stole all of Cruor's CSS
L771[17:03:38] <Michiyo> gamax92, my first
was also in 1992
L772[17:03:40] <Michiyo> or so
L773[17:03:40] <gamax92> sorry Cruor
L774[17:03:46] <Michiyo> :P
L775[17:03:47] <OmegaCenti> I remember
toying with modem signals in doom
L776[17:03:47] <Izaya> CompanionCube:
first, I would lay them down on a hard surface
L777[17:03:59] <Izaya> I would then take
an axe to their chest cavity
L778[17:04:04] <Izaya> pull out their
heart
L779[17:04:08] <Izaya> and shove it down
their throat
L780[17:04:10] <OmegaCenti> couldn't get
my friend down the street to be able to connect. so
frustrating
L781[17:04:16] <vifino> My first website
was an exploit in a free webhoster's box.
L782[17:04:58] <Michiyo> I ran a dialup
"ISP" for some friends for a while..
L783[17:05:06] <CompanionCube> my first
website
L784[17:05:09] <CompanionCube> was on
Zoomshare
L785[17:05:17] <Izaya> I might still have
mine
L786[17:05:23] <Izaya> was basically a KSP
site
L787[17:05:23] <Michiyo> I used Maxpages
for a while
L788[17:05:40] <Izaya> no CSS or JS
L789[17:05:50] <vifino> v.v gcc 6 ebuild
is bork
L790[17:06:24] <CompanionCube> Izaya, I
thought you said ASP and was wondering 'i refuse to believe Izaya
ever used ASP'
L791[17:06:39] <Izaya> never by
choice
L792[17:06:41] <Izaya> oh yeah
L793[17:06:47] <Izaya> anyone have and
want to exchange pgp keys?
L794[17:06:56] <Izaya> I'll probably never
email you and vice versa but hey
L795[17:06:58] <vifino> Sure.
L796[17:07:03] <Michiyo> but yeah... we
had cable internet, and 2 phone lines, so I setup a dial in rras in
windows 2000 advanced server and let them dial in and use the
internet
L797[17:07:06] <gamax92> Advanced Signal
Processing
L798[17:07:09] <CompanionCube> uh, I have
a GPG key but I don't think I ever published it anywhere besides
keybase
L800[17:07:31] <OmegaCenti> been curious
for a while and haven't remembered the question until now
L801[17:07:42] <OmegaCenti> how do you
secure the first public key exchange?
L802[17:07:52] <MajGenRelativity> when I
build my new computer, I'm going to install Windows 3.1 on it
XD
L803[17:07:55] <OmegaCenti> or is there a
need?
L804[17:08:04] ⇦
Quits: Turtle (~SentientT@82-171-92-73.ip.telfort.nl) (Ping
timeout: 190 seconds)
L805[17:08:05] <OmegaCenti> (extreme
layman to pgp and public keys)
L806[17:08:12] <Michiyo> 22 minutes to
go
L807[17:08:13] *
gamax92 pokes OmegaCenti
L808[17:08:18] <Izaya> OmegaCenti: trusted
medium
L809[17:08:21] <OmegaCenti> wooooah
L810[17:08:30] <Izaya> in this case, I met
everyone here on IRC so that's as trusted as it gets
L811[17:08:30] <OmegaCenti> the world is
made of fractals
L812[17:08:42] <CompanionCube> yeah, you
have to trust the method and the people
L813[17:08:49] <OmegaCenti> if internet,
how trusted?
L814[17:08:51]
⇨ Joins: Turtle
(~SentientT@82-171-92-73.ip.telfort.nl)
L815[17:08:51] <CompanionCube> and that
they are the real keys
L817[17:08:58] <OmegaCenti> seems
difficult and not trivial
L818[17:09:09] <gamax92> OmegaCenti: is
not fractal at all :P
L819[17:09:14] <OmegaCenti> what keeps
something from man in the middle?
L820[17:09:17] <CompanionCube> OmegaCenti,
it's a problem with public/private key cryptography
L821[17:09:29] <CompanionCube> in fact,
with the entire damn field
L822[17:09:41] <vifino> I just `gpg
--armor --export`'d my key. hopefully i did it right.
L823[17:09:44] <CompanionCube> 'how can
you trust the initial key exchange' is a very applicable question
to all forms
L824[17:09:46] <OmegaCenti> so wait, my
question, its not a simple one?
L825[17:09:48] <vifino> keys*
L826[17:09:56] <CompanionCube> OmegaCenti,
basically
L827[17:10:00] <CompanionCube> it's as
simple as you make it
L828[17:10:25] *
OmegaCenti googles --armor
L830[17:11:06] <CompanionCube> How much
trust is a question that depends on your own opinion, and obviously
that of the person(s) you're exchanging keys with
L831[17:11:26] <gamax92> that sounds like
a pickup line
L832[17:12:04] <OmegaCenti> I need the 101
course, my google queries are not being fruitful
L833[17:12:38] <vifino> Izaya: Imported,
good sir.
L835[17:12:48] <Izaya> vifino: :D
same
L836[17:13:11] <Izaya> yay one person I've
talked to before
L837[17:13:20] <Izaya> rather than just
package signing for the AUT
L838[17:13:21] <Izaya> AUR*
L839[17:14:48] <OmegaCenti> so if someone
doesn't have your private key, even if they have your public key,
"Hello world".whatever will not be easily
decrypted?
L840[17:15:17] <Izaya> you can only
encrypt with a public key
L841[17:15:35] <Izaya> decrypting with a
public key is an exercise in futility most of the time
L842[17:16:09] <OmegaCenti> but if I send
you "Izaya, I love you, be my forever" ,regards blah,
even if someone knows your public key, noone will ever know that
"I love you" unless they have your private key?
L843[17:16:12] <Kodos> I'm still a
complete idiot with encryption, i have no idea how to properly use
priv/pub keps
L844[17:16:13] <Kodos> err
L845[17:16:14] <Kodos> keys
L846[17:16:23] <CompanionCube> unless you
either have a quantum computer and as such breaking RSA is suddenly
reasonable.....or you just have an insanely large amount of
computing grunt
L847[17:16:46] <Izaya>
*cough*NSA*cough*
L848[17:17:06] <OmegaCenti> at some point
it becomes prohibitive, remember watching computerphile
L849[17:17:20] <CompanionCube> and even in
the latter case, you can't break keys wily-nily it still takes
substantial time
L850[17:17:22] <OmegaCenti> there are some
functions that are computable, but prohibitively expensive
computationally wise
L851[17:17:25] <CompanionCube> just not
millions of years
L852[17:18:42] <g> for some reason, water
is causing my client to completely lock up
L853[17:18:53] <g> I wonder how the hell I
can diagnose this with no traceback
L854[17:18:58] <g> opis doesn't help
either
L855[17:19:02] <Izaya> I have a USB with
backups of my keys on it
L856[17:19:09] <Izaya> but according to my
calculations
L857[17:19:24] <g> seems to do it when an
entity enters water
L858[17:19:27] <Izaya> it would take about
4 million times the expected life of the universe to brute-force
it
L859[17:19:34] <g> process starts eating
60% CPU and locks up, but the audio still plays..
L860[17:19:54] <OmegaCenti> even given
advanced decrypting techniques (ala "not just
bruteforce") ?
L861[17:20:09] *
CompanionCube wonders if he should post his key to keyservers
before pasting the armored block
L862[17:20:25] *
OmegaCenti mutters something about rainbow something something
because he remembers that word somewhere on the internet and
decryption coming up
L863[17:20:34] <CompanionCube> OmegaCenti,
rainbow tables are a thing
L864[17:20:45] <Izaya> they're generally
used on hashes, though, IIRC
L865[17:20:56] <Izaya> and when a hash is
salted they're pretty useless
L866[17:21:10] *
OmegaCenti still doesn't understand salt
L867[17:21:13] <Izaya> they're pretty good
for breaking into Windows and stuff with though
L868[17:21:18] <CompanionCube> a common
use might be to crack hashed windows passwords (which are
surprisingly insecure)
L869[17:21:27] <Izaya> a salt is just a
random string appended or prepended to the actual data
L870[17:21:54] <OmegaCenti> why nto just
find the salt, and prepend it? is it because you don't know where
the salt ends/begins?
L871[17:22:11] <Izaya> a salted string
gives you a totally different hash
L872[17:22:16] <g> the salt is mostly to
prevent against pre-computed attacks
L873[17:22:32] <Izaya> meaning you need a
lot more disk space to store the rainbow tables
L875[17:22:42] <g> the salt is part of the
hash, so not only do you not know where it is, but you don't know
how it relates to the hash itself
L876[17:22:49] <OmegaCenti> this rabbit
hole is getting deeper, and just leading to a recursive function of
"why? What for?"
L877[17:23:01] <g> there is no solution
that cannot be broken
L878[17:23:03] <g> that is a fact
L879[17:23:14] <g> all the solutions do is
prevent you from breaking them in a reasonable amount of time
L880[17:23:20] <Izaya> it's making it
harder, not making it impossible
L882[17:24:34] <LordFokas> salts are used
to prevent mostly rainbow table / dictionary attacks
L883[17:24:42] <LordFokas> mostly rainbow
tables though
L884[17:25:00] <OmegaCenti> thats okay for
the discussion, this is helping me (I think) understand it
better
L885[17:25:10] <OmegaCenti> so it is
generally bad if someone knows the hash function?
L886[17:25:14] <OmegaCenti> or does that
not matter?
L887[17:25:23] <LordFokas> doesn't
matter
L888[17:25:27] <Izaya> doesn't matter as
long as the hash function is expensive
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L890[17:25:47] <LordFokas> generally the
best hashing and encryption algorithms are the best known
ones
L891[17:26:03] <OmegaCenti> Is there a
"beginner's book" for this?
L892[17:26:06] <LordFokas> because they
have more people trying to break and fixing them
L893[17:26:13]
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L894[17:26:25] <Izaya> 'babby's first
encrypted email'
L895[17:26:41] <LordFokas> the point of an
hash is that it's not easily reversible
L896[17:26:57] <CompanionCube> isn't it
actually a good idea when designing crypto-related stuff to
*assume* the opponent knows the exact details about the
algo/softwar
L897[17:27:03] <CompanionCube> and
ensuring that it remains secure
L898[17:27:07] <OmegaCenti> wikipedia is
just so bad at explaining things sometimes
L899[17:27:09] <Izaya> yup
L900[17:27:29] <g> a good hash function is
probably going to be a slow one as well
L901[17:27:35] <g> but you'd need to watch
out for that in eg a webapp
L902[17:27:47] <g> since one that's too
slow and not secured properly can expose you to a DoS attack
L903[17:28:11] <CompanionCube> the NSA had
a take on it: (A former official at NSA's National Computer
Security Center told me that the standard assumption there was that
serial number 1 of any new device was delivered to the
Kremlin.)
L904[17:28:13] <ds84182> bogosort is a
perfect hash function
L905[17:28:29] <g> lol, bogosort
L906[17:28:34] <ds84182> I need a
multicore version of bogosort in OpenCL
L907[17:28:35] <CompanionCube> ds84182,
not good enough
L908[17:28:41] <CompanionCube> you need
bogobogosort
L909[17:29:04] ⇦
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L910[17:29:08] <ds84182> Sorting the bits
of bogosort's implementation code until it's compilable/runnable to
sort a data set
L911[17:29:13] <CompanionCube> no
L912[17:29:22] <ds84182> :(
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L917[17:29:25] <LordFokas> think of it
like a really big Sudoku game. It's easy to pick up a full table
and erase some numbers, but figuring out which numbers go where is
WAAAAAY harder
L918[17:29:37] <LordFokas> that's
essentially what an Hash does. It picks up an array of data and
erases/mashes it together until it has a predetermined fixed
length
L919[17:29:51] <CompanionCube> this is
bogobogosort:
L920[17:29:51] <CompanionCube> It works by
recursively calling itself with smaller and smaller copies of the
beginning of the list to see if they are sorted. The best case is a
single element, which is always sorted. For other cases, it
compares the last element to the maximum element from the previous
elements in the list. If the last element is greater or equal, it
checks if the order of the copy matches the previous version,
copies back if not, and returns. Otherwise, it reshu
L921[17:29:51] <CompanionCube> ffles the
current copy of the list and goes back to its recursive check
L922[17:29:57] <OmegaCenti> why is it
desirable to have a predetermined fixed length?
L923[17:30:07] ⇦
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L924[17:30:16] <CompanionCube> let's just
say on sizable lists that shit won't be done before the universe
essentially dies.
L925[17:30:17] <ds84182> Oh lord
L926[17:30:19] <g> OmegaCenti, for the
hash? storage purposes
L927[17:30:30] <ds84182> CompanionCube: Or
it could if RNG is on your side ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
L928[17:30:49] <OmegaCenti> I take it this
bogosort is worst case scenario?
L929[17:30:56] <ds84182> OmegaCenti:
Worse
L930[17:30:56] <OmegaCenti> in other words
"don't do this" ?
L931[17:31:07] <ds84182> Waaaaaaaaaay
worse than that
L932[17:31:11] <CompanionCube> ds84182,
with just 6 items
L935[17:32:32] <ds84182> Oh my lord
L936[17:32:34] <OmegaCenti> how do I knwo
you are you if you post some block of pgp on some website
L937[17:32:36] <LordFokas> OmegaCenti,
it's not about being desirable or not, but the algorithms work with
fixed amounts of data. Internally they're, say, 16x16 matrices of
data being switched and mashed around
L938[17:32:43] <CompanionCube> OmegaCenti,
have you tried the simple english wikipedia
L939[17:32:52] <OmegaCenti> yes, mind
still blown a gasket
L940[17:33:06] <OmegaCenti> simple.stuff
yes?
L941[17:33:16] <ds84182> Anyways, I'm
going to restart my computer because I reinstalled fglrx
L942[17:33:17] <LordFokas> OmegaCenti, too
much boost. You need forged internals :p
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L944[17:33:28] *
OmegaCenti woooooooooosh
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L946[17:33:40] <ds84182> open source
driver performance is absolute trash in Cities Skylines and even
Minecraft at default settings
L947[17:33:41] <LordFokas>
BRAPAPAPAPAPAPAPA STUTUTUTU
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L949[17:33:56] <OmegaCenti> ah, get
it
L950[17:34:00] <OmegaCenti> cast pistons
cracking
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L953[17:34:41] <LordFokas> did I just find
a fellow petrolhead on a minecraft computer mod irc channel?
L954[17:35:04] <gamax92> ds84182: I'm
happy with the open source driver performance
L955[17:35:11] <OmegaCenti> no, but
sometimes I am lord of google and all that is inference (plus I
like metallurgy)
L956[17:35:19] <gamax92> not on nvidia
though, nvidia blob is nice
L958[17:35:29] <CompanionCube> vifino,
Izaya ^
L960[17:36:44] <LordFokas> also, that had
nothing to do with cracking
L961[17:36:51] <CompanionCube> OmegaCenti,
wiki walks in general are deep
L962[17:38:10] <LordFokas> (this is a
thing among petrolheads, mostly boost people), the 'brapapa' is the
revving / redline bouncing / your exhaust making popcorn; while the
'stutututu' is the turbo flutter when you finally let off the
throttle (my favorite sound, ever)
L963[17:38:29] <OmegaCenti> well, too much
torque and/or pressure (related to boosts) on a cast part can
exceed the mechanical properties of its paterials. forging a part
(hammering and the sort) re-aligns crystal faults in the material,
thereby strengtehning its properties and reducing its apparent
flaws
L964[17:39:18] <OmegaCenti> i.e. blowing
your gasket on your turbocharge because you just redlined your
engine in neutral (happened to a friend)
L965[17:39:30] <LordFokas> that's why when
you're running massive amounts of boost you use forged internals
:p
L966[17:39:44] <OmegaCenti> and not only
did he blow the gasket on the turbocharger, the piston busted the
crankcase off his engine and broke the latch on his hood
L967[17:39:46] <LordFokas> but the sound
is way more catastrophic than that :p
L968[17:40:07] <LordFokas> DAMN... that's
a new engine
L969[17:40:19] <OmegaCenti> he thought
using NOS while in neutral sitting still would be
"cool"
L970[17:40:39] <OmegaCenti> this is
generally a bad idea, yes?
L971[17:40:44] ***
kirby|gone is now known as mrkirby153
L972[17:41:10] <LordFokas> terrible
idea
L973[17:41:35] <LordFokas> especially when
your crankcase can't handle all that reciprocating force
L974[17:41:36] <OmegaCenti> yeah, pushing
a reciprocating combustion engine past design limits *with no
load*... not so smart
L975[17:41:51] <Izaya> man
L976[17:42:12] <Izaya> this must be what
it's like to be one of the poor souls that ends up in front of me
when I start talking about CS-type stuff
L977[17:42:28] <LordFokas> the fact it has
no load pushes the acceleration up a few orders of magnitude
L978[17:42:44] <OmegaCenti> HAHAHAHA
L979[17:42:54] <LordFokas> blazing hot
metal parts usually don't like being accelerated THAT hard
L980[17:42:58] <OmegaCenti> mmmm
role-specialization ala society
L981[17:45:49] <LordFokas> I've had that
much acceleration before, but not all they way up to the redline
(most I've gone was 6k RPM)
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L983[17:46:41] <LordFokas> earlier today,
stopped at a crosswalk on a hillclimb, and it was raining
L984[17:46:42] <OmegaCenti> I don't think
he ever saw his tachometer before the hood popped open
L985[17:47:06] <LordFokas> the white
stripes are made of marble, so they're slippery as hell
L986[17:47:54] <LordFokas> as soon as the
wheels got on it (on 1st gear) the tacho went from ~2k to 4.5k in
tenths of a second
L987[17:48:11] <LordFokas> I had to shift
up to get some grip
L988[17:48:55] <OmegaCenti> interesting,
default idle couldn't roll you?
L989[17:50:07] <LordFokas> my car is very
sensitive, default idle on 1st will choke and shut down unless
you're going downhill
L990[17:50:16] *
OmegaCenti wonders what amount of torque the average engine puts
out at idle
L991[17:50:46] <LordFokas> it's a 1.25L
running on gasoline
L992[17:51:03] <LordFokas> it puts out
75hp PEAK power
L993[17:51:13] <LordFokas> FWD
L994[17:51:31] *
LordFokas still drifts it like hell on tight curves and
roundabouts
L995[17:51:57] *
LordFokas is a **bit** of a hoon :p
L996[17:53:46] *
OmegaCenti believes in the uber-performance electric-compustion
hybrid
L997[17:54:01] <OmegaCenti> of course, KER
in an economy vehicle is absurd
L998[17:54:17] <OmegaCenti> my b went to
australia it seems
L999[17:56:16] <OmegaCenti> the amazing
torque that a magnetic field can apply to a current carrying wire
is just... beautiful.... /tear
L1000[17:56:32] <ds84182> gamax92: I
wasn't happy with it
L1001[17:57:04] <ds84182> Minecraft was
running below 30 fps when it was 60 with closed source
L1002[17:59:31] <LordFokas> The amazing
part is that the torque is constant
L1003[17:59:58] <LordFokas> but
combustion engines still give you a lot more energy density than
electric motors, so there's that.
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L1011[18:54:59] <OmegaCenti> I am new to
the subset of "being banned from #minecraftforge" but now
I know it is a growing subset
L1013[18:55:22] *
OmegaCenti googles angler ek
L1014[18:56:06] <OmegaCenti> after
reading the results page.... mmmmaybe I am not going to click any
of those links without having a sandbox read-only operating
system
L1015[18:57:18] <OmegaCenti> oh a
cryptolocker, is that where they encrypt your personal files and
hold them for ransom?
L1016[18:58:44] <gamax92> OmegaCenti:
nah.
L1018[18:59:04] <gamax92> more often they
just trash your files and demand money to "decrypt"
them
L1019[19:02:45] <xarses> is there a
better way to cast a possible nil variable to a boolean value than
`not not variable`?
L1020[19:03:27] <gamax92> xarses:
nope
L1021[19:04:00] <gamax92> besides doing
if type(a) == "nil" then a = false end
L1022[19:05:12] <OmegaCenti> brb
restart
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L1024[19:07:16] <gamax92> xarses: there's
also using variable arguments and doing if select("#",
...) > (something) then a = false end
L1025[19:07:22] <gamax92> so that you can
still catch nil
L1026[19:07:35] <gamax92> I mean < or
<=
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L1028[19:09:18] <xarses> its a possible
callback function in a loop closure that I want to make sure I can
set to true or false as the return if it don't want it to do the
func
L1029[19:09:41] <xarses> so `not not nil`
`not not true` `not not false` work fine for me
L1030[19:10:39] <xarses> I don't care for
all kinds of safety in it, I was going to return bool(var) but that
dosen't seem to exist in lua
L1031[19:11:05] <gamax92> that would
essentially just boil down to function bool(thing) return not not
thing end anyway :P
L1032[19:11:37] <xarses> k
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timeout: 190 seconds)
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(uid57631@2604:8300:100:200b:6667:3:0:e11f) (Quit: Connection
closed for inactivity)
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seconds)
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host closed the connection)
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L1076[23:58:51] ***
mrkirby153 is now known as kirby|gone
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host closed the connection)