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L5[02:00:03] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV]
Pushing snapshot_20180512 mappings to Forge Maven.
L6[02:00:07] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV]
Maven upload successful for mcp_snapshot-20180512-1.12.zip
(mappings = "snapshot_20180512" in build.gradle).
L7[02:00:17] <MCPBot_Reborn> Semi-live
(every 10 min), Snapshot (daily ~3:00 EST), and Stable (committed)
MCPBot mapping exports can be found here:
http://export.mcpbot.bspk.rs/
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L17[05:22:14] <ben_mkiv> how is energy
actually handled for itemstacks? looking at draconic evolution
source which uses cofh.redstoneflux.api.IEnergyContainerItem
L18[05:22:23] <ben_mkiv> but shouldnt that
be something that capabilities handle in the future?
L19[05:24:34] <ForgeDiscord>
<JamiesWhiteShirt> both can be used
L20[05:29:59] <ben_mkiv> well im just going
to implement support for capabilities i guess
L21[05:30:13] <ben_mkiv> wasnt the idea of
them to get rid of all the energy helper classes?
L22[05:31:13] <ForgeDiscord>
<JamiesWhiteShirt> I don't think a mod that only supports RF
exists
L23[05:31:31] <ForgeDiscord>
<JamiesWhiteShirt> well, it probably does, but it sure can't
be popular
L24[05:31:52] <ForgeDiscord>
<JamiesWhiteShirt> might as well use the forge energy
capability because most mods support that
L25[05:32:41] <ben_mkiv> sure that
one
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L32[06:25:26] <ben_mkiv> there really could
be some transferEnergy Method which accepts another capability as
argument :>
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L54[10:46:21] <ben_mkiv> do all recipes
have to be json with 1.13?
L55[10:47:23] <ForgeDiscord>
<JamiesWhiteShirt> if they are to be overriden or disabled by
data packs, yes
L56[10:47:26] <ForgeDiscord>
<StrikerRocker> If you want them to disable then yes
L57[10:48:07] <ben_mkiv> well im actually
generating some recipes with helperfunctions from another mod, but
thinking about they probably have to change their whole item naming
when 1.13 drops metaids
L58[10:49:32] <ForgeDiscord>
<StrikerRocker> From ic2?
L59[10:49:39] <ben_mkiv>
opencomputers
L60[10:49:47] <ForgeDiscord>
<StrikerRocker> Use willi's scripts to convert them to
json
L61[10:50:08] <ben_mkiv> the upgrades
actually are all named opencomputers:upgrade
L62[10:50:33] <ben_mkiv> well, i'll leave
it as it is until theres a 1.13 release
L63[10:50:41] <ben_mkiv> and only move my
static recipes to json
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L71[12:46:46] <LexManos> move all your
recipes to json, its not hard. just move those 'helper functions'
to build time, not runtime.
L72[12:48:24] <gigaherz> even for fully
custom recipes that can't be expressed with normal recipe
handlers
L73[12:48:29] <gigaherz> you can register a
custom recipe type
L74[12:48:45] <gigaherz> the json might end
up like { "type": "yourcustomthing" } without
any other contents
L75[12:48:56] <gigaherz> but at least it
will go through the system and be easy to toggle and such
L76[12:48:56] <LexManos> literally no
custom recipes can not be expressed by json
L77[12:49:17] <LexManos> oh read your
message wrong
L78[12:49:25] <gigaherz> yeah it wasn't a
question :P
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L87[13:56:39] ***
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L91[14:00:25] <lillelykke> Some players
tries to connect, they see the world.. and then disconnects.
Sometimes they manage to log in, sometimes not.
L92[14:01:44] <gigaherz> !gm
func_147273_a
L94[14:02:17] <Ordinastie> that's the same
link
L95[14:02:28] <gigaherz> there's some
broken block/tileentity -- it seems to crash repeatedly on
handleUpdateTileEntity
L97[14:03:10] <lillelykke> [20:49:01]
[main/FATAL]: Error executing task
L98[14:03:11] <lillelykke>
java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException:
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Attempted to get the ID for a
unknown recipe: net.minecraftforge.oredict.ShapedOreRecipe@773c00cb
Name: appliedenergistics2:network/blocks/controller
L99[14:03:16] <lillelykke> I assume this is
the cause?
L100[14:03:29] <gigaherz> no but that may
be a symptom of the issue
L101[14:04:07] <lillelykke> Do you know
how I can find out what the real issue is, please?
L102[14:04:27] <gigaherz> first verify
that the clients are using the same exact versions of all
mods
L103[14:04:29] <gigaherz> as the
server
L104[14:04:38] <lillelykke> He is.
L105[14:04:44] <gigaherz> those repeated
crashes COULD be caused by mismatched versions or missing
mods
L106[14:04:49] <lillelykke> He is using
the same modpack with TechnicLauncher.
L107[14:05:38] <lillelykke> This is
happening to a few people, and they all use the same
TechnicLauncher modpack as everyone else.
L108[14:06:08] <lillelykke> The thing
is... Isaskar_Eng have a horrible computer, and so does some of the
others that sometimes cannot join.
L109[14:06:27] <lillelykke> But it's to
easy to say that's the cause.. and there's nothing to do.
L110[14:06:36] <lillelykke> Because there
clearly are issues on the server.
L111[14:06:40] <gigaherz> bad computer
doesn't explain Caused by: java.lang.NullPointerException
L112[14:06:40] <gigaherz> at
net.minecraft.client.network.NetHandlerPlayClient.func_147242_a(NetHandlerPlayClient.java:1255)
~[brz.class:?]
L113[14:06:54] <lillelykke> What is
causing that?
L114[14:06:58] <gigaherz> I have no
idea
L115[14:07:19] <gigaherz> is the server
1.12?
L116[14:07:28] <lillelykke> Yes
L117[14:07:58] <lillelykke> [13:51:28]
[Server thread/INFO]: Starting minecraft server version
1.12.2
L118[14:08:04] <lillelykke> [13:51:49]
[Server thread/INFO]: Loading version v4.1.72 on Sponge -
SpongeForge
L119[14:08:04] <lillelykke> [13:51:49]
[Server thread/INFO]: Running on server version SpongeAPI:
7.1.0-SNAPSHOT-e39726a - SpongeForge:
1.12.2-2611-7.1.0-BETA-3002
L120[14:09:27] <gigaherz> ah
spongeforge
L121[14:09:44] <gigaherz> so even if I had
the same exact version set up locally, the line numbers won't
necessarily match
L122[14:09:51] <gigaherz> so I have no way
to tell you any more details
L123[14:10:01] <gigaherz> only that
something is going very wrong, while loading a tileentity
L124[14:10:05] <gigaherz> updating*
L126[14:10:40] <gigaherz> yeah the issue
isn't in the server per se
L127[14:10:53] <gigaherz> the client is
just having so many internal crashes that it's effectively DoSing
itself
L128[14:11:12] <lillelykke> DoS?
L129[14:11:12] <gigaherz> but I can't tell
you which mod, or which location in the world, is causing the
issue
L130[14:11:17] <gigaherz> "denial of
service"
L131[14:11:22] <gigaherz> it's lagging so
much it disconnects itself
L132[14:11:27] <lillelykke> Right.
L134[14:12:07] <lillelykke> Because my
server have the same issue with this.
L135[14:12:22] <gigaherz> hmmm acxtually
taking a closer look
L136[14:12:51] <gigaherz> [21:03]
(lillelykke): java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException:
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Attempted to get the ID for a
unknown recipe: net.minecraftforge.oredict.ShapedOreRecipe@773c00cb
Name: appliedenergistics2:network/blocks/controller
L137[14:12:52] <gigaherz> [21:03]
(lillelykke): I assume this is the cause?
L138[14:12:57] <gigaherz> that IS the
reason it decides to disconnect
L139[14:13:26] <lillelykke> So... Removing
AE2 will solve this issue?
L140[14:13:34] <gigaherz> can't possibly
say
L141[14:14:02] <gigaherz> are you certain
they have the same version of AE2 as the server?
L142[14:14:23] <gigaherz> sorry brb I ahve
dinner cooking in the stove
L143[14:14:27] <Ordinastie> removing AE2
will at least allow to confirm that's the reason of the crash or
not
L144[14:15:47] <lillelykke> Yes I am,
gigaherz.
L145[14:16:00] <lillelykke> If I remove
AE2, what will happen to AE2 blocks in-game?
L146[14:16:18] <Ordinastie> they'll
disappear
L147[14:16:28] <lillelykke> Right...
L148[14:16:33] <lillelykke> That's a big
issue.
L149[14:16:45] <Ordinastie> back the world
first
L150[14:17:31] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> Do you have any Crafttweaker scripts or anything
else that may otherwise modify AE2 recipes?
L151[14:17:55] <lillelykke> Nope.
L152[14:18:19] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> Welp, I tried.
L153[14:19:02] <lillelykke>
buildcraftlib@7.99.16,treechopper@1.2.4,bin
L154[14:19:02] <lillelykke>
9,buildcrafttransport@7.99.16,cofhcore@4.4.0,mekanism@1.12.2-9.4.5.340,thermalfoundation@2.4.0,craftstudioapi@1.0.0,wawla@2.5.253,mcp@
L155[14:19:02] <lillelykke>
2-3.3.2,waila@1.8.24,enderstorage@2.4.2.126,jeresources@0.8.5.27,forge@14.23.2.2611,buildcraftrobotics@7.99.16,ironchest@1.12.2-7.0.40
L156[14:19:02] <lillelykke>
,sponge@1.12.2-2611-7.1.0-BETA-3002,mousetweaks@2.8,thermaldynamics@2.4.0,biomesoplenty@7.0.1.2384,botany@2.5.0.163,redstoneflux@2.0.1
L157[14:19:02] <lillelykke>
-11,compactsolars@1.12.2-5.0.17.340,aroma1997core@2.0.0.0.b150,spongeapi@7.1.0-SNAPSHOT-e39726a,forgelin@1.6.0,inventorytweaks@1.63+re
L158[14:19:02] <lillelykke>
gistries@1.0.13,ic2@2.8.75-ex112,mantle@1.12-1.3.2.24,buildcraftbuilders@7.99.16,buildcraftfactory@7.99.16,autoreglib@1.3-16,fluxnetwo
L159[14:19:03] <lillelykke>
.4,environmentaltech@1.12.2-2.0.9c,spiceoflife@1.3.11,codechickenlib@3.1.7.340,morphtool@1.2-16,buildcraftcore@7.99.16,forestry@5.8.0.
L160[14:19:08] <lillelykke> This is the
mods.
L161[14:19:25] <lillelykke> I can get a
better list though.
L162[14:20:32] <lillelykke>
animania-1.12.2-1.4.8.jar, fluxnetworks-1.12.2-3.0.8.jar,
Nucleus-1.3.7-S7.0-MC1.12.2-plugin.jar,
AppleCore-mc1.12.2-3.1.1.jar, forestry_1.12.2-5.8.0.270.jar,
Pam's+HarvestCraft+1.12.2t.jar,
appliedenergistics2-rv5-stable-11.jar, Forgelin-1.6.0.jar,
Prism-3.0.0-beta2-46-ge820b5e.jar,
Aroma1997Core-1.12.2-2.0.0.0.b150.jar,
griefprevention-1.12.2-4.3
L163[14:20:32] <lillelykke> .jar,
industrialforegoing-1.12.2-1.8.10-143.jar,
SpiceOfLife-mc1.12-1.3.11.jar,
BiomesOPlenty-1.12.2-7.0.1.2384-universal.jar,
InventoryTweaks-1.63.jar,
spongeforge-1.12.2-2611-7.1.0-BETA-3002.jar,
buildcraft-7.99.16.jar, ironchest-1.12.2-7.0.40.824.jar,
TConstruct-1.12.2-2.9.1.65.jar, buildcraft-compat-7.1.7.jar,
jei_1.12.2-4.9.1.169.jar, tesla-co
L164[14:20:32] <lillelykke> .0.574.jar,
purpleirc-1.12.2-1.0-5.jar,
Aroma1997s-Dimensional-World-1.12.2-2.0.0.2.b69.jar,
holograms-3.1.jar, randompatches-1.12.2-1.0.1.0.jar,
AutoRegLib-1.3-16.jar, Hwyla-1.8.24-B39_1.12.jar,
RedstoneFlux-1.12-2.0.1.2-universal.jar, BetterFps-1.4.8.jar,
industrialcraft-2-2.8.75-ex112.jar, sonarcore-1.12.2-5.0.8.jar,
binnie-mods-1.12.2-2.5.0.163
L165[14:20:32] <lillelykke>
re-lib-1.12-1.0.13.jar,
CodeChickenLib-1.12.2-3.1.7.340-universal.jar,
jeibees-0.9.0.5-mc1.12.2.jar,
ThermalDynamics-1.12.2-2.4.0.8-universal.jar,
CoFHCore-1.12.2-4.4.0.10-universal.jar,
journeymap-1.12.2-5.5.2.jar,
ThermalExpansion-1.12.2-5.4.0.20-universal.jar,
CoFHWorld-1.12.2-1.1.1.12-universal.jar,
LuckPerms-Sponge-4.1.72.jar, ThermalFoundatio
L166[14:20:32] <lillelykke>
2.2-2.4.2.126-universal.jar, Morpheus-1.12-3.3.2.jar,
Wawla-1.12.2-2.5.253.jar, environmentaltech-1.12.2-2.0.9c.jar,
Morph-o-Tool-1.2-16.jar
L167[14:20:32] <lillelykke>
n-1.12.2-2.4.0.14-universal.jar,
CompactSolars-1.12.2-5.0.17.340-universal.jar,
Mantle-1.12-1.3.2.24.jar, TitleMOTD.-.1.0.jar,
CookingForBlockheads_1.12.2-6.3.26.jar,
Mekanism-1.12.2-9.4.5.340.jar, TreeChopper-1.12.2-1.2.4.jar,
CraftStudio-1.0.0.93-mc1.12-alpha.jar,
MekanismTools-1.12.2-9.4.5.340.jar, valkyrielib-1.12.2-2.0.9b.jar,
EnderStorage-1.1
L168[14:20:40] <Corosus> =_=
L169[14:20:48] <Corosus> stop
spamming
L170[14:21:00] <gigaherz> pastebin!
pastebin! even if it feels like it's short enough!
L172[14:22:30] <lillelykke> There you go,
and sorted.
L173[14:24:39] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> So the issue you mentioned was that the client
logs in but then eventually disconnects?
L174[14:24:54] <lillelykke> Yes.
L175[14:25:10] <lillelykke> BungeeCord
says they have joined the server.
L176[14:25:19] <lillelykke> and then
suddenly they disconnect.
L177[14:25:55] <lillelykke> [18:47:54]
[Server thread/INFO] [journeymap]: Sending log in packet. ->
[18:48:44] [Server thread/INFO]: Isaskar_Eng lost connection:
Disconnected
L178[14:25:59]
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L179[14:26:18] <lillelykke> You can see
it's almost a minute between journeymap sent the package and the
user joined the server, before it disconnects.
L180[14:26:19] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> In one of those logs I see this
L181[14:26:22] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException:
java.lang.NullPointerException: Tried to send data to client before
the player exists.
L182[14:27:35] <lillelykke> The weird
thing is... sometimes they manage to join, sometimes not. They
might try 4-5 times before they manage to join and stay
inside.
L183[14:27:45] <lillelykke> and it seems
to happen with poor computers, I guess.
L184[14:28:51] <lillelykke> Added
randompatches-1.12.2-1.0.1.0.jar to allow for longer timeout time,
in hope of it would resolve the issue.
L185[14:29:00] <lillelykke> But it didn't
make much difference.
L186[14:29:00] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> Was about to suggest that
L187[14:29:30] <lillelykke>
I:loginTimeout=600 - B:patchForgeDefaults=false -
I:readTimeout=320
L188[14:36:09] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> Hmm, are channels or meteors disabled on the
server?
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L190[14:39:07] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> I feel like the missing recipe might be something
to do with a mismatching config, since IIRC AE2 disables the
controller recipe if channels are disabled or something like
that?
L191[14:39:29] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> not sure though, not really messed with the config
options
L192[14:42:40] <lillelykke> Yes, we've
disabled channels.
L193[14:42:43] <lillelykke> to make it
easier.
L194[14:42:59] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> Make sure the client config also has channels
disabled
L195[14:43:14] <lillelykke>
networkfeatures {
L196[14:43:14] <lillelykke>
B:Channels=false
L197[14:43:16] <lillelykke> hmm..
L198[14:43:28] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> hmm, not sure then
L199[14:43:44] <lillelykke> I'll send you
a BIG BIG virtual hug if this fixes it.
L200[14:44:01] <lillelykke> In the modpack
we've not supplied config files.
L201[14:44:10] <lillelykke> We've let the
clients generate them.
L202[14:44:18] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> Well it should fix that recipe NPE, but idk about
the disconnecting
L203[14:44:40] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> IIRC mismatching recipes will not let you join in
the first place
L204[14:45:14] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> but it's been a while so maybe I'm remembering
wrong and it disconnects after a bit, idk
L205[14:45:36] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> But yeah, always good to give clients the configs
you change serverside
L206[14:46:07] <lillelykke> Thanks a lot
for the help. I'll give it a try. :)
L207[14:46:36] <lillelykke> Mind if I tag
your nick if it doesn't work? Won't have time to test it right now,
but probably tomorrow.
L208[14:47:09] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> Sure
L209[15:03:13]
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L210[15:07:40] <LexManos>
"RandomPatches" aka cant be bothered to edit forges
config so hack all the shit
L211[15:08:57] <ForgeDiscord>
</dev/illy> thats a new level of lazy O.o
L212[15:11:08] <lillelykke> If there's a
place to edit the logintimeout and reatimeout somewhere else,
please tell.
L213[15:11:16] <lillelykke> I would like
to remove mods if possible.
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L215[15:17:54] <LexManos> its one of
forges env vats iirc
L216[15:18:29] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> The keepalive timeout thing in
NetHandlerPlayServer appears to be hardcoded to 15000ms and login
timeout in NetHandlerLoginServer is hardcoded to 600 ticks
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L218[15:21:36] <LexManos> also most likey
it is not the timeout, as that was fixed properly in the networking
rewrite
L219[15:21:57] <LexManos> as long as its
not a network issue itll send keepalives and be fine
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L221[15:25:28] <LexManos> also IF it was a
timeout issue you should get a timeout error screen
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L225[15:44:58] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> welp, it's way worse than I expected
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L228[15:47:46] <LexManos> ya this guy has
no odea what hes doing coremod wise. and hes working on like 4 year
old information. those values dont mean much of anything
anymore
L229[15:48:00] <LexManos> changing them
just hides/delays errors
L230[15:51:15] <Corosus> are the forge
environment variables documented everywhere? i ask cause i was also
using random patches to fix the timeout issue
L231[15:51:53] <LexManos> again it does
nothing
L232[15:51:54] <ForgeDiscord>
<killjoy> search the repo for System.getProperty
L233[15:52:12] <Corosus> the mod fixed my
old laptop not being able to join servers
L234[15:52:19] <Corosus> so it did
something, after i configured it right
L235[15:52:25] <LexManos> but ya, some
could go through and make a single cleanup pr to love all that to
one plaxe
L236[15:52:45] <Corosus> yeah it being
built into forge would be great, but from the sounds of 1.13
changes im sure it wont be needed long
L237[15:52:52] <ForgeDiscord>
<JamiesWhiteShirt> you need to look for Integer.getProperty
and the likes too
L238[15:53:07] <Corosus> i guess ill have
a quick check for those
L239[15:53:09] <LexManos> 1.13 will be a
major rewrite so ill probably move forge to using the annotation
config
L240[15:53:09] <Corosus> ty
L241[15:53:59] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> Looks like fml.readTimeout (which defaults to 30)
and fml.loginTimeout (which defaults to 600)
L242[15:54:24] <Corosus> aha
L243[15:54:27] <Corosus> yeah just found
it too
L244[15:56:41] <Corosus> ill retry on our
proper server once we restart with those 2 set super high and see
if my laptop can get in
L245[15:57:50] <ForgeDiscord>
<killjoy> wasn't one of those removed?
L246[15:58:11] <Corosus> i see them in the
1.12.1 source
L247[15:58:18] <Corosus> oh wait,
login_timeout var isnt used
L248[15:58:35] <Corosus> hrm
L249[15:59:14] <ForgeDiscord>
<killjoy> why are you looking at 1.12.1?
L250[15:59:53] <Corosus> thats the one i
have handy
L252[16:01:11] <ForgeDiscord>
<Virtuoel> as of 14.23.3.2678, LOGIN_TIMEOUT does appear to
not be used
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L255[16:16:18] ***
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L262[17:18:34] <LexManos> again its old
shit that isnt needed anymore due to the network rewrite
L264[17:18:58] <ForgeDiscord> <mezz>
I think the network will time out when mods do way too much stuff
on login
L265[17:19:42] <ForgeDiscord> <mezz>
JEI was breaking it for a long while in big packs before I broke
down and made it load everything before the server connection
L266[17:19:46] <LexManos> show me a small
mod that killa it then ill give a shit
L267[17:19:54] <LexManos> hiwever as i
fuckkng said
L268[17:19:59] <LexManos> it shoudlnt
matter at all
L269[17:20:13] <LexManos> as while the
shits being sent over keepalives will be sent
L270[17:20:21] <LexManos> so the network
will not time out
L271[17:20:48] <ForgeDiscord> <mezz>
someone should make a test mod for it since I think it's busted
somehow
L272[17:21:01] <ForgeDiscord> <mezz>
but yeah, without that it's just people yelling
L273[17:21:09] <LexManos> exactly
L274[17:21:22] <Corosus> just try ftb
revelations on an old machine and youll time out on connect
always
L275[17:21:57] ***
Corosus was kicked by LexManos (tried and failed to find
issue))
L276[17:22:02] <ForgeDiscord> <mezz>
ship me an old machine and ... yeah. should be easy to figure out
which mod is breaking it and replicate it in a test mod that just
does sleep for a minute
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L278[17:22:22] <Corosus> lol
L279[17:22:25] <ForgeDiscord>
<MoxieGrrl> I...technically have an old machine laying
around.
L280[17:22:26] <Corosus> nice way to
reply
L281[17:22:29] <ForgeDiscord>
<MoxieGrrl> But I'd have to kick my son off of it.
L282[17:22:55] <LexManos> nice way to
fucking ignore what ive been saying
L283[17:23:04] <LexManos> when this firsr
started i did the testing
L284[17:23:53] <Corosus> hmm ill have to
turn on more network debugging to get the exact timeout
message
L285[17:23:55] <LexManos> and you should
definitly know a "try this big fucking modpack for thus one
little issue" is NOT a calid reproduction case
L286[17:24:31] <Corosus> it was a
combonation of mods just thrashing the login handshake, binnies
bees + crafting book last i checked
L287[17:24:38] <Corosus> genetics
rather
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L289[17:25:09] <ForgeDiscord> <mezz>
Corosus, the main idea here is that we "should" be
sending pings to avoid the timeout. setting the timeout high is
just a poor workaround. we want to fix the real bug but need an
easy way to replicate it without loading a pack for 6 minutes each
try
L290[17:25:22] <Corosus> cool cool
L291[17:26:37] <ForgeDiscord>
<Barteks2x> so... it wasn't just my bad internet connection
that frequently caused timeouts for me on some servers when logging
in (sometimes I could see it time out as I was receiving
chunks)?
L292[17:26:59] <LexManos> yes it was
L293[17:29:56] <Corosus> gonna try to
reproduce it and see if it gave me any actual error info, i recal a
netty stacktrace but cant be sure, was weeks ago last i tried
L294[17:32:57] <ForgeDiscord>
<Barteks2x> I generally blamed my internet for my timeouts,
which was weird to me when I could watch youtube in 4k without
issues, but would time out on MC servers. But I just accepted it as
normal
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L296[17:55:46] <ForgeDiscord>
<liach> guess your modded server sends too many packets and
does not have enough bandwidth
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