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L12[02:00:03] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV]
Pushing snapshot_20170810 mappings to Forge Maven.
L13[02:00:07] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV]
Maven upload successful for mcp_snapshot-20170810-1.12.zip
(mappings = "snapshot_20170810" in build.gradle).
L14[02:00:18] <MCPBot_Reborn> Semi-live
(every 10 min), Snapshot (daily ~3:00 EST), and Stable (committed)
MCPBot mapping exports can be found here:
http://export.mcpbot.bspk.rs/
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L26[03:46:47] <xaero> does anyone have any
reference to where mojang announced they were going to remove TEs
from noteblocks and flower pots?
L27[03:46:54] <xaero> likely to be a
tweet
L28[03:47:32] <xaero> (or did they announce
that?)
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L40[05:49:51] <ghz|afk> xaero: I don't
recall seeing that
L41[05:50:03] <ghz|afk> if it was a tweet,
I haven't seen it
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L52[06:55:55] <halvors> #calclavia
L53[06:56:00] <halvors> Sorry.
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L62[07:28:21] <MennoMax> I need some help
with a lagging custom entity of mine. Is there anybody here able to
help me in a private conversation?
L63[07:28:38] <ghz|afk> why private?
L64[07:29:11] <MennoMax> I don't want to
annoy the others :)
L65[07:29:24] <ghz|afk> uhm...
L66[07:29:26] *
ghz|afk looks up
L67[07:29:49] <ghz|afk> there have been a
total of 6 lines said in the last 4 hours, and 2 of them were a
mistake
L68[07:31:56] <MennoMax> For handling a
horse carts movement, I made it always face the horse and move it
for the distance inbetween on every update (on both client and
server) yet it stutters on every update tick (every 20 ticks in
this case)
L69[07:32:09] <halvors> Anyone know of a
good name for a mod called "Atomic Science" without being
that name, and not a name that is already in use?
L70[07:34:02] <MennoMax> What exactly is
your mod about @halvors?
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L72[07:34:37] <halvors> MennoMax: The
description would be "Atomic Science" if you know that
mod from 1.6.
L73[07:34:49] <halvors> Exactly the same,
just a rewrite of it.
L74[07:34:59] <ghz|afk> Nuclear
Workshop?
L75[07:35:16] <ghz|afk> first thing that
popped into my brain
L76[07:35:36] <ghz|afk> I can provide
ideas
L77[07:35:43] <ghz|afk> but you'll have to
check if they ever existed
L78[07:36:29] <halvors> Thanks, was first
thinking about Nuclear Science. But pretty lame.
L79[07:36:44] <halvors> Maybe "Nuclear
Physics" as it's basically what it is.
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L85[08:26:58] <arehman> hi i need some help
as i developing a plugin in that i need to get itemstack from
nbtTagCompund but i cant find a function to do that!
L86[08:27:14] <arehman> i am new to
forge
L87[08:29:42] <ghz|afk> what version of
mc?
L88[08:31:46] <arehman> 1.11.2
L89[08:32:01] <ghz|afk> itemstack has a
constructor that takes an NBT compound
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L91[08:32:28] <arehman> thanks man
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L94[08:51:23] <Ordinastie> what's the way
for manual recipe registering again ?
L95[08:52:09] <Ordinastie> hum, nvm, I
think I got it
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L98[09:13:54] <Ordinastie> or not :'(
L99[09:15:47] <Xilef11>
GameRegistry.addShape[d|less]Recipe?
L100[09:23:17] <Abastro> What would you do
if you think the code is getting messy? When a single hackery is
needed.
L101[09:24:45] <Abastro> *when -> the
point where
L102[09:29:32] <Ordinastie> Xilef11,
doesn't work, I need oredict recipes
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L105[09:32:27] <Xilef11> oh, no clue
then
L106[09:34:20] <Xilef11> create a
ShapedOreRecipe/ShapelessOreRecipe and register it in
RegistryEvent.Register<IRecipe> ?
L107[09:37:16] <Ordinastie> actually, it
uses ingredient, I should be able to make it work
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L113[09:52:39] <Ordinastie> all things
considered, I wonder if I can't just use the regular JSON loading
process
L114[09:55:25] <Ordinastie> does someone
know where recipe JSON are parsed from ?
L115[09:56:25] <ghz|afk>
CraftingHelper
L116[09:58:06] <ghz|afk> specifically
CraftingHelper.init has registerT calls for the different recipe
handlers
L117[09:59:12] <Ordinastie> bad
formulation of the question
L118[09:59:18] <Ordinastie> I need to add
JSON to be parsed
L119[09:59:29] <Ordinastie> from another
folder
L120[09:59:33] <ghz|afk> ah
L121[09:59:34] <ghz|afk> hmm
L122[10:00:04] <ghz|afk>
CraftingHelper.getRecipe(JsonObject, JsonContext)
L123[10:00:34] <ghz|afk> I don't think you
can "add one to the list" because there's no list, it's
parsed within the loop that enumerates the files
L124[10:00:48] <ghz|afk>
CraftingHelper.loadRecipes is where this happens
L125[10:00:56] <Ordinastie> yeah, found
that, thanks
L126[10:04:31] <Ordinastie> there isn't
any doc about recipe JSON yet ?
L127[10:06:03] <ghz|afk> well the bulk of
it is vanilla
L128[10:06:29] <ghz|afk> forge adds the
ability to have loading conditions, custom ingredients, and custom
recipe "parsers"
L129[10:08:54] <Ordinastie> I mean, if I
move away from my JSON to use the vanilla way, I'd need to be able
to point to a decent doc for the players to use
L130[10:09:18] <Ordinastie> "look
inside MC jar for the JSONs and figure it out for yourself"
won't really gonna cut it
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L132[10:09:30] <ghz|afk> right
L133[10:10:06] <ghz|afk> issue is that
vanilla recipe jsons are NOT exposed to the public yet
L134[10:10:11] <ghz|afk> so official docs
aren't going to happen I guess
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L137[10:11:38] <Ordinastie> I guess I'll
have to cook one up
L138[10:11:54] <Ordinastie> but I'm lazy I
don't really want to do it :'(
L139[10:12:36] <Ordinastie> currently
debating if it's worth updating at all :s
L140[10:12:52] <Ordinastie> it's not like
the mod is downloaded that much
L141[10:13:25] <ghz|afk> LOL
L142[10:13:29] <ghz|afk> copying over
files from the old HDDs
L143[10:13:30] <ghz|afk> 2017/08/10
17:12:37 ERROR 225 (0x000000E1) Copying File
H:\Downloads\netbeans-6.1-ml-javase-windows.exe
L144[10:13:30] <ghz|afk> Operation did not
complete successfully because the file contains a virus or
potentially unwanted software.
L145[10:13:38] <ghz|afk> netbeans is a
virus now ;P
L146[10:14:57] <Ordinastie> it's
definitely unwanted
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L186[12:19:43] <Jaffa> Is there an event
to handle a login where I could hook in and deny/allow someone to
join a server?
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L213[14:00:09] <Hunterz> 1.12 mods will
work with 1.12.1 forge?
L214[14:00:13] <ghz|afk> yes
L215[14:00:25] <ghz|afk> with
exceptions
L216[14:00:37] <ghz|afk> some coremods
need updates
L217[14:00:44] <ghz|afk> and some very
invasive reflection
L218[14:01:14] <ghz|afk> and mods that
chose to have special version ranges other than the default
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L221[14:01:38] <ghz|afk> like a mod says
[1.11.2,1.12], needs to be recompiled for 1.12.1
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L224[14:01:43] <ghz|afk> just to fix the
version range
L225[14:02:02] <ghz|afk> but other than
those
L226[14:04:25] <ghz|afk> the rest will
work as-is without any issues
L227[14:04:25] <Hunterz> ok, thanks a
lot
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L233[14:28:08] <Shambling> so... is it
against the twitch terms of service to write an app that basically
hides everything but the minecraft stuff, kind of adblock plus for
the twitch launcher :P
L234[14:28:27] <Shambling> because the new
layout is trash
L235[14:28:30] <Shambling> =|
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L237[14:32:17] <ghz|afk> Shambling: no
idea, but I have just seen it, and the twitch app will stop being
in my pc.
L238[14:32:29] <Ordinastie> what does it
look like ?
L239[14:32:32] <ghz|afk> if I ever have to
play a curseforge-based modpack, I'll use a 3rdparty
downloader
L240[14:32:37] <ghz|afk> Ordinastie: like
the twitch.tv website
L241[14:32:39] <ghz|afk> but as a web
app
L242[14:32:44] <ghz|afk> eh
L243[14:32:46] <Shambling> its basically
"hey, you play minecraft, thats great. Have some useless
stream ads instead"
L244[14:32:46] <ghz|afk> desktop
app*
L245[14:32:51] <ghz|afk> the minecraft
stuff
L246[14:32:57] <ghz|afk> is hidden 3
clicks away
L247[14:33:19] <ghz|afk> under a
"Mods" section
L248[14:33:19] <Shambling> if I wanted the
webpage I'd load the webpage... actually I'd google the streamer,
and then click on their name
L249[14:33:22] <ghz|afk> which has
"Minecraft" in it
L250[14:33:40] <Ordinastie> what is this
app anyway ?
L251[14:33:41] <ghz|afk> yep they
basically made the curse launcher useless for what the curse
launcher did
L252[14:33:54] <ghz|afk> Ordinastie:
remember the curse launcher? with the modpacks?
L253[14:34:01] <Ordinastie> kinda
L254[14:34:13] <Shambling> I really wish
mcmulti let you click update on individual mods
L255[14:34:18] <Shambling> then I would
never use twitch/curse again
L257[14:34:34] <ghz|afk> if you click on
"Mods"
L258[14:34:35] <ghz|afk> you get
L260[14:34:47] <Shambling> it reminds me
of what happened to that first game downloading site that came out
around the same time as steam
L261[14:34:50] <Shambling>
direct2drive
L262[14:34:51] <ghz|afk> then youcan click
on Minecraft
L263[14:34:59] <Shambling> which can take
up to a minute by the way
L264[14:35:19] <Shambling> at least hide
the shit that isn't installed lol
L265[14:35:28] <Shambling> or let us hide
programs that aren't installed
L266[14:35:31] <Shambling> wtf gg
L268[14:35:44] <ghz|afk> the old curse
app
L269[14:35:49] <Hubry> is it even any good
for watching people
L270[14:35:51] <Shambling> I'm amazed that
basically "Coming out of beta" means completely ignoring
what was out for beta and going with some random shit
L271[14:35:51] <ghz|afk> would open
directly on that
L272[14:36:06] <ghz|afk> Hubry: yes
L273[14:36:21] <Shambling> dunno, I don't
use twitch to watch streamers other than hypnotizd randomly
L275[14:36:29] <ghz|afk> it works fine for
stream watching
L276[14:36:46] <Shambling> probably html5
based and would cause me to puke as it probably streams at
60hz
L277[14:37:08] <ghz|afk> Shambling:
depends on the streamer
L278[14:37:09] <ghz|afk> but yes
L279[14:37:18] <ghz|afk> xBCrafted is
streaming at 60fps
L280[14:37:21] <Hubry> not that I'd use it
for watching streams, I have one running, but in my browser
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L282[14:40:31] <ghz|afk> so is there any
decent curseforge modpack browser / instance manager ?
L283[14:41:45] <ghz|afk> I'm thinking I'd
made a program that shows the curseforge page for browsing
packs
L284[14:41:48] <ghz|afk> but has some
special injection
L285[14:41:57] <ghz|afk> that adds an
"Install" button to the modpack pages
L286[14:42:03] <ghz|afk> I'd make*
L287[14:42:17] <ghz|afk> which would
create a profile in the vanilla launcher
L288[14:45:04] <ghz|afk> actually that
could be done as a browser extension XD
L289[14:45:14] <ghz|afk> but I can't be
bothered :P
L291[14:47:06] <Shambling> I just want
something that allows updating mods live, that is the only thing I
like about the curse launcher is the update button next to
mods
L292[14:47:31] <Shambling> as modpacks
update about as often as star wars films come out, so I can't rely
on that
L293[14:47:45] <ghz|afk> heh
L294[14:49:27] <Shambling> woo
customers
L295[14:49:28] <Shambling> blegh
L296[14:49:30] <Shambling> :P
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L301[15:01:36] <Obbi> hm well
L302[15:01:51] <Obbi> parsing the curse
pages and doing some magic seems not that hard tbh
L303[15:02:18] <Obbi> and since those guys
don't provide a useful api...
L304[15:03:04] <Obbi> I do that for
another project and it works* (*most of the time)
L305[15:04:08] <ghz|afk> there's already
downloaders
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L308[15:08:36] <Obbi> yeah but not for
what i needed
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L312[15:20:04] <Shambling> if you release
something that shows updates, you must be the chosen one and not
annakin
L313[15:20:58] <Shambling> Sorry if that
is actually your name, and you've put up with being called obbi wan
your entire life :P
L314[15:23:43] <Abastro> Would it be
feasible to fix elevation of world borders and generate the world
with it?
L315[15:28:19] <Abastro> Hello,
anyone?
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L317[15:33:04] <ghz|afk> Abastro: lack of
answer means we don't know
L318[15:33:47] <Abastro> Oh. :<
L319[15:36:26] <Ordinastie> or we don't
care
L320[15:38:29] <Obbi> Shambling: what do
you mean ?
L321[15:38:41] <Obbi> It's Obbi and not
Obi. know the difference
L322[15:39:58] <Shambling> haha yeah
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L324[15:40:33] <Obbi> Shambling: what did
you mean with shows updates?
L325[15:40:54] <Shambling> if you look at
installed mods in twitch client, it shows what mods have updates
you can download, and gives a link to download it right there
L326[15:41:04] <Shambling> where as if you
use multimc, you need to go to the mod page for every mod and check
manually
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L328[15:41:41] <Obbi> Hm... well one could
build a "check all mods now" thingy
L329[15:42:02] <Obbi> and then crawl and
get latest files to see if there are updates
L330[15:42:15] <Obbi> +- some magic
matching
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L335[15:53:32] <Obbi> the biggest problem
for me is the inconsistency in naming schemes
L336[15:54:16] <Obbi> maybe forge should
require modid-major-minor.jar to load a mod xD to kill those
problems
L337[15:54:34] <Obbi> inb4 the world
ends
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L341[16:12:28] <LexMobile> God you know
the hell we got for even suggesting people should follow standard
numbering? People can't even fucking agree that 2>1
L342[16:13:34] <ghz|afk> or that 1.2 <
1.10
L343[16:13:58] <LexMobile> U.u
L344[16:14:35] <ghz|afk> we had a lengthy
discussion some years ago in the PCSX2 project, and ended up
bumping the version to 1.0 because people though users wouldn't
understand 0.10 > 0.9.x
L345[16:18:26] <ghz|afk> (in the end it
was a good thing because it forces us away from the "eternal
beta syndrome"
L346[16:18:33] <ghz|afk> forced*
L347[16:18:40] <LexMobile> Ya.. its not
really the users tho. Its modder ego and stupidity. It's a simple
concept take the strong split it by . Compare each segment.
L348[16:19:41] <ghz|afk> yeh
L349[16:19:48] <ghz|afk> I remember when
ms released vista
L350[16:20:04] <ghz|afk> they had to add a
compatibility setting that would force the version to be
xp/2003's
L351[16:20:24] <ghz|afk> because some apps
would check "if (version.major > 5 && version.minor
>= 1)"
L352[16:20:31] <ghz|afk> meaning 6.0
failed the condition
L353[16:20:47] <fry> software version
checks are different from perceived user version order
L354[16:21:02] <fry> and compatibility
mode is way older than vista :P
L355[16:21:07] <ghz|afk> yes
L356[16:21:16] <ghz|afk> not talking about
the compatibility modes themselves
L357[16:21:28] <ghz|afk> but specifically
one of the "patches" they have in the shim engine
L358[16:22:05] <ghz|afk> after that, they
added new API functions to compare version, including macros like
"IsWinXP" which use that function internally
L359[16:22:25] <ghz|afk> but all that
started after the facepalm-worthy version check issues
L360[16:22:39] <fry> the whole reason
behind no windows 9 is shitty version check code, isn't it?
:P
L361[16:22:51] <fry> at least that's the
only explanation I've heard
L362[16:23:00] <ghz|afk> that¡s what rumor
says
L363[16:23:06] <LexMobile> Ya that's their
excuse honestly I don't buy it
L364[16:23:13] <ghz|afk> speaking about
apps checking os_id.startsWith("Windows 9")
L365[16:23:16] <ghz|afk> but yeah I don't
think do
L366[16:23:18] <ghz|afk> so*
L367[16:23:21] <Obbi> yeah but as it is
currently is really annoying the shit I had to do just to match
some mods from the jarnames...
L368[16:23:22] <ghz|afk> I think 10 sounds
like 10/10 perfect
L369[16:23:25] <Obbi> it's stupid
L370[16:23:27] <ghz|afk> so 9 was
"almost 10"
L371[16:23:36] <ghz|afk> they bumped to 10
to make it sound better
L372[16:23:53] <ghz|afk> that's my theory
at least
L373[16:24:03] <ghz|afk> another running
theory is that they wanted to switch to apple's release
system
L374[16:24:09] <ghz|afk> where machines
come with OSX (OS 10)
L375[16:24:16] <ghz|afk> and have updates
delivered to them
L376[16:24:20] <ghz|afk> so because they
were copying OS 10
L377[16:24:24] <ghz|afk> they wnated
Windows 10 also
L379[16:24:30] <ghz|afk> but that's just
silly.
L380[16:24:51] <LexMobile> Obbi: just
extract the modus and version from the class files because that's
totally a easy thin everyone has access to!
L381[16:24:57] <Obbi> Hm yeah.. Is forge
enforcing mcmod files nowadays?
L382[16:25:12] <LexMobile> (Note the
sarcasm, and why we try to punch everyone to mcmod.info)
L383[16:25:22] <Obbi> I remember them
beeing extremly out of date last time i just read some of
them
L384[16:25:30] <LexMobile> Forge can
neverbENFORCE anything
L385[16:25:41] <LexMobile> Because I am
literally butler trying to kill all modding
L386[16:25:48] <LexMobile> Hitler
L387[16:25:51] <Obbi> Oo?
L388[16:26:07] <Obbi> Well forge has to at
least enforce the format of the file :D
L389[16:26:28] <ghz|afk> there's still
some mods distributed as .zip files
L390[16:26:36] <Obbi> or are you doing a
try json, yaml, ini, apache and hope one works
L391[16:26:45] <Hubry> I've seen someone
get a mod that requires you to unzip it actually
L392[16:26:55] <ghz|afk> yep that's what I
meant
L393[16:27:03] <Obbi> yeah but... fuck
them
L394[16:27:16] <LexMobile> Da fux
L395[16:27:31] <Obbi> sorry really, but
there is documentation on most of the stuff. If the format is
required to be X it is
L396[16:27:56] <Obbi> and allowing people
to do the fuck they want just keeps maintanance up
L398[16:28:48] <fry> if even openjdk has
it :P
L399[16:29:00] <Obbi> well java is
shit
L400[16:29:11] <Obbi> but that is what we
have to work with here
L401[16:29:35] <fry> openjdk code is
reasonably good
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L403[16:30:06] <ghz|afk> that's just
silly... I don't know how broken java's OS info is
L404[16:30:19] <fry> it doesn't come close
to the worst C(++) code I've had to read :P
L405[16:30:35] <Obbi> well c++ is just so
much hacks nowadays
L406[16:30:55] <Obbi> with all that magic
that came with c++11 et al.
L407[16:30:57] <fry> is it java who's
broken, or winapi? (correct answer is probably both) :P
L408[16:31:03] <ghz|afk> winapi is
okish
L409[16:31:13] <ghz|afk> GetVersion /
GetVersionEx return numeric versions
L410[16:31:15] <ghz|afk> never a
string
L411[16:31:38] <fry> haha, winapi is not
what I would call okish :P
L412[16:31:55] <Obbi> WinApi is nice if
you like SM or bondage
L413[16:31:56] <ghz|afk> "the winapi
version functions are good enough for their purpose"
L414[16:31:58] <ghz|afk> is what I meant
;P
L415[16:32:33] <Obbi> it's a low level os
api...
L416[16:32:44] <Obbi> so i did not expect
much magic there
L417[16:32:54] <ghz|afk> GetVersion
returns a DWORD (unsigned int) with the version number encoded in
it
L418[16:33:04] <ghz|afk> and GetVersionEx
fills in a struct with .dwMajor and such
L419[16:33:24] <ghz|afk> so the key thing
is that they never return a string like "Windows 95
OSR2"
L420[16:33:31] <Obbi> indeed
L421[16:33:59] <ghz|afk> which means
whatever it is that constructs a string like that and gives it to
the program
L422[16:34:02] <ghz|afk> is the
issue
L423[16:34:05] <Obbi> but some fancy
programmer found a high level function that returned windows 98 and
thought it's cool to do a string.startswith with it
L424[16:34:15] <Obbi> and everyone else
copied from that sample
L425[16:34:27] <Obbi> ^- bad samples are
the real problem
L426[16:34:37] <ghz|afk> and obsolete
API
L427[16:34:43] <Obbi> and there are a lot
of bad examples everywhere
L428[16:35:14] <Obbi> hm maybe it's time
for a forge coremod
L429[16:35:19] <ghz|afk> it is possible
that java 1 or 2 or whatever, had a ...
Environment.operatingSystem() -- made up name
L430[16:35:34] <ghz|afk> and ancient
applets and apps used that, so tutorials used that
L431[16:35:47] <ghz|afk> so people kept
replicating old tutorials even after that was long obsolete
L432[16:35:53] <Obbi> yeah
L433[16:36:16] <Obbi> just look at awt /
swing
L434[16:36:36] <Obbi> it's the best
example of hidious apis
L435[16:36:53] <Obbi> I hate everything
window related in java
L436[16:36:56] <ghz|afk> but really, look
at this
L438[16:37:08] <ghz|afk> line 40 and
onward
L439[16:37:25] <Obbi> wait i need to
resize my terminal to copy this in one go
L440[16:37:27] <ghz|afk> and the comment
says "a bit dirty"
L441[16:37:34] <ghz|afk> a BIT?!?!
L442[16:37:53] <Obbi> LOL
L443[16:38:06] <Obbi> even env fonts would
be better
L444[16:38:31] <Obbi> funny
L445[16:38:42] <Obbi> using exec to get
environment
L446[16:38:57] <Obbi> especially using
exec without full paths on windows
L447[16:38:57] <ghz|afk> I wonder how old
System.getenv is
L448[16:39:08] <Obbi> where local dir has
preference over system
L449[16:39:32] <Obbi> so you could put a
cmd.exe file in that dir and see what happens
L450[16:40:16] <ghz|afk> iirc modern
windows has a thing that prevents "system executables"
from being replaced that way
L451[16:40:29] <Obbi> not really
L452[16:40:48] <Obbi> Do you remember the
technic launcher?
L453[16:40:48] <ghz|afk> maybe it was only
some DLLs
L454[16:40:51] <ghz|afk> but I know it's
there
L455[16:41:01] <Obbi> Not sure if it is
still a thing
L456[16:41:06] <ghz|afk> ran into it while
doing some work for the ReactOS project
L457[16:41:18] <Obbi> but that thing uses
zip files to download and then extracts those
L458[16:41:25] <ghz|afk> yeah I vaguely
remember the technic launcher
L459[16:41:41] <Obbi> problem is they use
zip and extract those
L460[16:41:55] <Obbi> zip can contain ../
directories
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L462[16:42:26] <Obbi> you could create a
mod that overrides files on desktop or anywhere else on the system
the user could write, to
L463[16:43:12] <Obbi> And problem there
is, that people don't think or test such things before they
ship
L464[16:43:34] <ghz|afk> LOL
L465[16:43:46] <Obbi> I don't care about
that if I write stuff for myself. But if I release stuff to the
wild I should at least prevent directory traversal
L466[16:43:47] <ghz|afk> well one would
assume a zip library disallows that by default ;P
L467[16:44:02] <Obbi> it's a feature that
zip can go upwards
L468[16:44:12] <ghz|afk> not
".." entries, but specifically ..ing out of where the
extration started
L469[16:44:23] <Obbi> well :D
L470[16:44:28] <ghz|afk> it may be a
feature, it should still be disallowed by default ;P
L471[16:44:34] <Obbi> yea
L472[16:44:38] <ghz|afk> just plain simple
common sense
L473[16:45:00] <Obbi> the same with
mcmod.info and jar file naming schemes
L474[16:45:05] <Obbi> COMMON sense
L475[16:45:12] <Obbi> but it seems it's
not
L476[16:45:50] <ghz|afk> well jar naming
shouldn't matter, really
L477[16:46:11] <Obbi> well it would be
nice if there would be one format
L478[16:46:18] <ghz|afk> sure
L479[16:46:29] <ghz|afk> my mods are all
modname-mcversion-modversion.jar
L480[16:46:30] <Obbi> I don't wanna know
how much hacks there are on the curseforge backend
L481[16:46:39] <Obbi> to fuzzy match mods
from jar filenames
L482[16:46:55] <ghz|afk> I always assumed
it does a web lookup
L483[16:47:14] <Obbi> yes but still it has
to do the resolve somewhere
L484[16:47:15] <ghz|afk> "hey do we
know this jar name?" "yeah it's this file ID",
"okay give me info about this file"
L485[16:47:30] <Obbi> hm maybe
L486[16:47:41] <Obbi> there is no public
endpoint i could find for that
L487[16:47:54] <Obbi> they do some shit in
their client to hide those requests
L488[16:48:28] <Obbi> it's within a
websocket server running in the client that maps an rpc
endpoint
L489[16:48:43] <Obbi> and somehow
complexities
L490[16:48:55] <Obbi> no idea why you
would use such a design
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L493[16:58:18] <Obbi> LexMobile: I just
saw your hint now. No can do. I try to reverse modpacks / mods from
the forge log files or crashlogs
L494[16:59:05] <Obbi> Idea is to have an
easy way to get the same setup than player x that ran into a crash
in mod x
L495[17:00:30] <Obbi> It is semi working
still not matching a lot of mods but it is finding many files or at
least the mod page on cuseforge if it exists
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L497[17:04:26] <capitalthree> Obbi: a
minecraft mod can already write to any directory you can write
to
L498[17:04:29] <capitalthree> it's
executable code
L499[17:04:43] <Obbi> capitalthree: yes of
course
L500[17:05:01] <capitalthree> maybe I was
misunderstanding your concern then
L501[17:05:08] <Obbi> But even then the
launcher should not have such faults
L502[17:05:23] <capitalthree> ok. well
true, I definitely agree
L503[17:05:28] <Obbi> I totally get the
major issue, running unverified code
L504[17:05:54] <capitalthree> but you said
something about "anywhere the system user could
write"
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L506[17:06:05] <capitalthree> but people
don't run minecraft launchers as the system user
L507[17:06:12] <Obbi> yes
L508[17:06:22] <Obbi> It could only
corrupt their user
L509[17:06:34] <Obbi> and then from there
gain system rights
L510[17:06:47] <Obbi> but same with any
mod in a modpack
L511[17:06:48] <capitalthree> true but
again so could a mod normally
L512[17:06:52] <capitalthree> yeah
L513[17:07:06] <capitalthree> I guess
you're not wrong that it's silly for launchers to have such
exploits
L514[17:07:10] <capitalthree> but it
doesn't make a new threat model
L515[17:07:17] <Obbi> not really,
yes
L516[17:07:20] <Obbi> well...
L517[17:07:31] <Obbi> tbh it does
somehow
L518[17:07:40] <Obbi> if you look at the
mods in a modpack
L519[17:07:45] <capitalthree> the threat
model of people who download modpacks but never run them?
L520[17:07:54] <Obbi> lol :D
L521[17:08:28] <Obbi> Hm... to bad there
is no working sandboxing for java that would be easy to use
there
L522[17:08:48] <capitalthree> anyways
don't use such a terrible launcher :P
L523[17:08:55] <Obbi> kinda would be nice
if one could just wrap all those system functions away
L524[17:09:03] <capitalthree> there's the
jvm sandbox but you'd probably have to do a *lot* of work to make
minecraft function within it
L525[17:09:24] <Obbi> yeah and every mod
would have to use ForgeFile to read and write then
L526[17:09:36] <capitalthree> have you
considered just making an isolated user account for running the
launcher?
L527[17:09:45] <capitalthree> you can set
up scripts to push tasks to that user account
L528[17:10:02] <Obbi> yeah on linux I do
run minecraft on it's own user
L529[17:10:15] <Obbi> only forwarding the
rendered image onto my desktop
L530[17:10:16] <capitalthree> ok
good
L531[17:10:56] <Obbi> I guess it will be
some work for a future generation to build such things
L532[17:11:16] ⇦
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L533[17:11:20] <Obbi> useful sandboxing
and restrictions of applications in an operating system
L534[17:11:42] <Obbi> if you look at
android et al. those have this in a simple way already
L535[17:12:19] <Obbi> doing this for
minecraft.. I guess it would be easier to start from scratch
L536[17:12:23] <capitalthree> well our
desktop OSes have had the machinery for sandboxing apps for
forever. literally the same way android does
L537[17:12:38] <capitalthree> the
machinery they lack is for making it convenient for those sandboxed
apps to interact with each other
L538[17:12:50] <Obbi> hm yes
L539[17:13:29] <capitalthree> basically if
you want security, you have to isolate every app, but that's the
easy part... a bunch of *totally* isolated apps is useless
L540[17:13:50] <capitalthree> the hard
part is then creating well-defined lanes for allowed communication
that won't break your security model
L541[17:13:57] <Obbi> yeah how modern apps
do this is the use a multi process approach
L542[17:14:11] <Obbi> one that is the
sandbox totally stripped of any syscalls
L543[17:14:16] <Obbi> cannot open files on
its own
L544[17:14:17] <capitalthree> and
multi-user. that's what I was getting at. android gives every app a
separate uid
L545[17:14:33] <capitalthree> but then it
also gives the apps extensive apis with different inter-app
communication mechanisms
L546[17:14:41] <Obbi> yep
L547[17:14:55] <Obbi> it would be possible
to that nowadays with other apps
L548[17:14:56] <capitalthree> so android
apps open files directly with syscalls, no problem
L549[17:15:01] <capitalthree> they are
just bound by user filesystem permissions
L550[17:15:23] <Obbi> yeah capitalthree
but if you want those apps to run unverified code
L551[17:15:31] <Obbi> then they should not
be able to open files
L552[17:15:34] <capitalthree> not sure how
the jvm sandbox security managers handle it but can't you let File
operations work within limited subdirectories?
L553[17:15:45] <Obbi> maybe
L554[17:15:55] <Obbi> I'm not really into
jvm security
L555[17:15:59] <capitalthree> Obbi: well a
minecraft server saves its state in files
L556[17:16:06] <capitalthree> so not sure
what you mean "should not be able to open files"
L557[17:16:10] <capitalthree> pretty
useless if it can't open files
L558[17:16:15] <Obbi> haha it still
works
L559[17:16:37] <Obbi> there is a
privileged task that is reacting to the sandboxed app
L560[17:16:45] <capitalthree> if what you
mean is, it should go through a secure access route that is able to
check what files it is allowed access to
L561[17:16:50] <Obbi> it has information
about what files it should be able to access etc
L562[17:16:56] <Obbi> and can hand those
files over
L563[17:16:58] <capitalthree> then again,
that's already done... that's what the linux kernel does when it
intercepts syscalls from userland
L564[17:17:14] <capitalthree> that's what
the linux kernel + user accounts + fs permissions do
L565[17:17:27] <Obbi> yeah this model also
exists in firefox etc.
L566[17:17:37] <capitalthree> which is why
android doesn't have any extra special layers of sandboxing from
filesystem access
L567[17:17:38] <Obbi> they use it to
sandbox javascript etc. even further
L568[17:17:45] <capitalthree> it just
doesn't give apps' user accounts access to stuff they shouldn't
access
L569[17:18:00] <LexMobile> Obie if you
have the log you have all mods and versions
L570[17:18:03] <Obbi> hm yea
L571[17:18:28] <Obbi> LexMobile: yes...
but it's not that easy to find a matching file
L572[17:18:48] <LexMobile> If you archive
things correctly it is
L573[17:18:59] <Obbi> well not
really.
L574[17:19:09] <Obbi> I tell you why
L575[17:19:18] <Obbi> I use curseforge to
get filenames
L576[17:19:27] <Obbi> but I cannot request
all files for download they have
L577[17:19:33] <LexMobile> Who gives a
shit about file names?
L578[17:19:41] <LexMobile> And yes
actually you can
L579[17:19:58] <Obbi> I don't want to get
banned
L580[17:20:06] <LexMobile> Hard part is
mapping curse project to modify
L581[17:20:08] <Obbi> for crawling to hard
on their webpages
L582[17:20:19] <capitalthree> oh I thought
you meant get banned here for arguing with lex :P
L584[17:20:38] <Obbi> no I currently craw
project pages for mods
L585[17:20:42] <Obbi> and files
L586[17:20:47] <Obbi> and try to match
filenames
L587[17:21:07] <LexMobile> Ya that's
bad
L588[17:21:13] <Obbi> problem is the
filenames don't match if somehow the downloaded filename is not the
one someone entered on the page
L589[17:21:39] <Obbi> so you can upload
file.jar and on the page it will be filename: 'FI-LE'
L590[17:21:49] <capitalthree> it's too bad
you just get names and not hashes
L591[17:22:46] <LexMobile> He gets mod ids
and versions that's good enough
L592[17:23:00] <Obbi> not if you want to
search curseforge for the file
L593[17:23:20] <LexMobile> That's cuz
curseforge is dumb
L594[17:23:31] <LexMobile> What you could
do is download one file from every project
L595[17:23:42] <LexMobile> And get a map
of modids to projects
L596[17:23:47] <Obbi> filename:
"[1.12] Fobar mod v1.3 " on the web real filename:
"fobar[1.12].1.3.jar"
L597[17:23:55] <LexMobile> Then download
versions files on request
L598[17:24:31] <Obbi> mapping the mods to
the projects works
L599[17:24:38] <capitalthree> boo
curseforge, can't wait for modistry to be ready
L600[17:24:46] <Obbi> finding the right
file within is sometimes shit
L601[17:24:58] <Obbi> what is
modistry?
L602[17:25:15] <capitalthree> a curseforge
replacement a friend is working on
L603[17:25:21] <LexMobile> Something that
doesn't matter
L604[17:25:22] <capitalthree> something
that will be more modder friendly and less money grabby
L605[17:25:33] <Obbi> Does he need
help?
L607[17:25:47] <capitalthree> maybe so.
want me to introduce you?
L608[17:25:56] ***
MrKickkiller is now known as MrKick|Away
L609[17:26:00] <Obbi> Well I'd like to
look at the project first
L610[17:26:04] <capitalthree> he'll sure
be a lot more interested in working with projects like yours than
curse is :P
L611[17:26:24] <Obbi> lel
L612[17:26:30] <capitalthree> it's cute
how lex says it doesn't matter but actually now that curse is owned
by twitch, they have new terms of service
L613[17:26:45] <capitalthree> just by
uploading mods to curse you grant them copyright on it
L614[17:27:13] <LexMobile> You did
before
L615[17:27:39] <capitalthree> did
what?
L616[17:27:54] <LexMobile> It doesn't
matter in the sense that you'll never get significant market
share
L617[17:28:05] <capitalthree> it's
unascribed starting it, not me
L618[17:28:11] ***
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L619[17:28:13] <LexMobile> Don't give a
shit
L620[17:28:15] <capitalthree> but yeah
that's a valid concern. it's gonna be really hard to get a project
like that off the ground
L621[17:28:19] <capitalthree> I hope
you're wrong though
L622[17:28:42] <LexMobile> If I am wrong
then yay competition is good. But I'm a realist
L623[17:29:04] <capitalthree> yeah I feel
you. I don't take it for granted that it will take off
L624[17:29:07] <capitalthree> just trying
to have hope
L625[17:29:19] <Obbi> well ... steal all
data from curse
L626[17:29:26] <capitalthree> curseforge
seems to want to flirt with the idea of locking down their modpack
tools to only allow mods from curse
L627[17:29:27] <Obbi> get dmcaed
L628[17:29:29] <Obbi> and die
L630[17:29:36] <capitalthree> so that they
can shut out third party hosted mods and force everyone to upload
to curse
L631[17:29:47] <capitalthree> so just a
bit of healthy competition would not only be good but would be
essential
L632[17:29:59] <capitalthree> doesn't need
huge marketshare, just enough to make sure curse can't feel like
they own the whole mod community
L633[17:30:04] <LexMobile> Shut up
L634[17:30:11] <Obbi> Well you have to see
twitch is amazon
L635[17:30:13] <capitalthree> you started
that discussion xD
L636[17:30:27] <Obbi> and tbh you see that
amazon bought twitch and now curse
L637[17:30:28] <LexMobile> No I didn't you
did saying you're making a competitor
L638[17:30:40] <LexMobile> And then you
went off the rails speculating the world is ending
L639[17:30:44] <Obbi> the latest launcher
update is the perfect example
L640[17:30:50] <LexMobile> Which is
ficking retarded
L641[17:30:50] <capitalthree> no, I didn't
say anything about the world ending
L642[17:30:56] <Obbi> it's discord + steam
+ twitch + ...
L643[17:31:00] <Obbi> in one client
L644[17:31:04] <capitalthree> I said curse
was considering making it so their modpack tools won't allow
arbitrary http sources for mods
L645[17:31:08] <LexMobile> 15:29
<capitalthree> curseforge seems to want to flirt with the
idea of locking down their modpack tools to only allow mods from
curse
L646[17:31:08] <capitalthree> and that
would be a bad thing for the community
L647[17:31:12] <capitalthree> not the end
of the world, just a bad thing
L648[17:31:43] <capitalthree> people will
still make and share mods but mod devs will be a bit more limited
in how they can usefully publish their work
L649[17:32:00] <Obbi> As far as I can see
it. The Curse Launcher does not really download stuff outside of
curseforge
L650[17:32:08] <capitalthree> anyways you
started the discussion about whether or not a competitor could
actually be successful
L651[17:32:12] <ghz|afk> it does not
L652[17:32:18] <ghz|afk> the pack zip
contains all non-curseforge mods in it
L653[17:32:20] <LexMobile> You have no
idea what curses plans are or what anyone in their company thinks
of anything
L654[17:32:24] <capitalthree> I only
brought it up to talk to Obbi about the likelihood of an api that
does what he needs
L655[17:32:32] <LexMobile> Spouting
bullshit theories is stupid
L656[17:32:36] <LexMobile> Hence shut
up
L657[17:32:57] <Obbi> LexMobile: you hate
science fiction, don't you?
L658[17:33:20] <LexMobile> No I hate drama
and fearmongering
L659[17:33:36] <Obbi> I don't think
anybody is that pessimistic
L660[17:34:01] <Obbi> cause if that really
happens it would just cause another project to be born
L661[17:34:14] <LexMobile> C3 was
literally just saying that
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L663[17:34:33] <Obbi> he was suggesting a
possibility
L664[17:34:36] <LexMobile> And it is the
history of the community to spout bulkshit fearmongering crap
L665[17:34:40] <LexMobile> No
L666[17:34:45] <LexMobile> He was stating
a fact
L667[17:34:56] <capitalthree> just took a
quick look at curseforge's modpack submission guidelines page,
which confirms that they consider the support for third party mods
in their modpacks to be a transitional situation
L668[17:34:59] <Obbi> well I got it was
just a possibility
L670[17:35:08] <capitalthree> see third
party mods
L671[17:35:16] <capitalthree> I'm not
playing any mind reading games. they're pretty open about how they
feel about it
L672[17:35:24] <capitalthree> they
definitely want all mods hosted on curse if possible
L673[17:35:32] <Obbi> it is a copytight
issue for them capitalthree
L674[17:35:38] <ghz|afk> well they don't
want mods embedded in the modpack zips
L675[17:35:41] <ghz|afk> and that's
perfectly reasonable
L676[17:35:46] <Obbi> they cannot host
external stuff without permission of the owner
L677[17:35:46] <LexMobile> No shit
everyone wants that but that doesn't mean that they are going to
take away your toys
L678[17:35:49] <ghz|afk> it bloats the
downloads
L679[17:36:04] <ghz|afk> and they can't
deduplicate/cache those files easily
L680[17:36:07] <LexMobile> It bloats the
downloads and is also illegal
L681[17:36:22] <Obbi> ^- as i stated
L682[17:36:30] <capitalthree> well it's
not illegal. curse already specifies that you can only do that with
mods who's license allows it
L683[17:36:44] <Obbi> ^- but they have to
enforce it
L684[17:36:47] <LexMobile> Except that
they have no way of verifying that
L685[17:36:56] <Obbi> which most likely
they cannot do and don't do now
L686[17:36:59] <capitalthree> they
actually detail how they verify it
L687[17:37:00] <LexMobile> And it's better
to manage the whole system then to deal with crap like that
L688[17:37:05] <capitalthree> nobody
actually clicked and read my link I take it
L689[17:37:18] <LexMobile> Nobody
cares
L690[17:37:35] <capitalthree> ok it's fine
to not care, but the problem is you still want to argue :P
L691[17:37:47] <capitalthree> you can
argue the facts or you can not care about them
L692[17:37:58] <LexMobile> No I want you
to shut up and stop spouting world is ending shit
L693[17:38:04] <capitalthree> dude I
didn't say the world is ending
L694[17:38:05] <LexMobile> It's fucking
annoying
L695[17:38:09] <LexMobile> So to that
end
L696[17:38:35] ***
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L751[21:17:17] <howtonotwin> When you
write javadoc and want to reference (in the plural) a class with an
irregular plural form, what do you write?
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L756[21:39:32] <kenzierocks> howtonotwin:
you mean like {@link Box boxen}?
L757[21:39:53] <howtonotwin> yep
L758[21:40:59] <howtonotwin> Wanted to
make it clear that there was a class behind it, so I went with
{@link Goose}s
L759[21:41:02] <howtonotwin> Is that a
good idea?
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L761[21:42:12] <kenzierocks> it doesn't
matter?
L762[21:42:24] <kenzierocks> {@link Goose
Gooses} looks the same
L763[21:42:32] <kenzierocks> and you can
(kinda) tell there's a class
L764[21:43:48] *
howtonotwin has forgotten that capital letters exist,
somehow
L765[21:43:56] <howtonotwin> Yep that's
MUCH better
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L784[23:12:05] <blood> McJty: pm
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