OCLogs: 2016-09-16.log

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L39[01:59:50] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV] Pushing snapshot_20160916 mappings to Forge Maven.

L40[01:59:53] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV] Maven upload successful for mcp_snapshot-20160916-1.10.2.zip (mappings = "snapshot_20160916" in build.gradle).

L41[02:00:04] <MCPBot_Reborn> Semi-live (every 10 min), Snapshot (daily ~3:00 EST), and Stable (committed) MCPBot mapping exports can be found here: http://export.mcpbot.bspk.rs/

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L49[02:29:16] <Dhs92> http://www.minecraftforge.net/wiki/Installation/Universal now gets a 404, how come?

L50[02:31:22] <Ordinastie> some flaming goat failed his redirections

L51[02:31:48] <Ordinastie> there is no wiki anymore as it was out of date and never updated

L52[02:32:08] <Ordinastie> link to proper docs is in the topic

L53[02:33:25] <Dhs92> Lovely

L54[02:33:49] <Dhs92> The read the docs is for devs only tho :/

L55[02:34:04] <Dhs92> Was trying to help someone get a log via cmd, meh waybackmachine it is

L56[02:34:24] <Ordinastie> log via command ?

L57[02:35:14] <Dhs92> Erm, install via cmd so that they can see errors

L58[02:35:15] <Dhs92> :p

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L61[02:52:44] <Lach_01298> i'm making a machine but the gui progress bars aren't working because the tile entity for the client and server are different. is this suppose to happen?

L62[02:53:11] <Ordinastie> yes

L63[02:53:46] <Lach_01298> so how do you get the server to update the clients gui?

L64[02:53:54] <Ordinastie> send a packet

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L90[05:45:14] <sham1> o/

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L92[06:08:08] <Nitrodev> \o

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L117[08:21:52] <MoxieGrrl_> You know that point at which you want to abandon the internet for good and go live in the middle of nowhere so you don't have to deal with any idiocy other than your own? I think I'm almost at that place.

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L123[08:36:22] <Flamegoat> Didn't fail at my redirects, just running an entirely new web server. :) if you guys only knew. :D

L124[08:39:33] <Ordinastie> but can't you make all query to /wiki/ go directly to rtd ?

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L126[08:41:11] <kashike> yes

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L134[09:51:46] <Ordinastie> I need to get the chunks traversed by a rayTrace, I assume there is nothing to help me, I have to manually rayTrace

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L142[10:15:19] <LatvianModder> take a hint https://github.com/MinecraftForge/MinecraftForge/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Areactions-%2B1-desc

L143[10:16:50] <cpw> you campaigning for a permissions system LatvianModder ?

L144[10:17:17] <LatvianModder> for a while now :P im actually waiting for more feedback. been polished quite much since first commit

L145[10:17:53] <IoP> are those positive or negative reactions ;)

L146[10:18:32] <LatvianModder> its "-+1"

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L148[10:18:36] <LatvianModder> so 0

L149[10:18:37] <LatvianModder> :P

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L151[10:19:49] <PaleoCrafter> liach just reacts confused to everything, lol

L152[10:19:55] <LatvianModder> How do I remove liach from my repo

L153[10:19:56] <LatvianModder> :D

L154[10:20:00] <cpw> looks interesting LatvianModder

L155[10:20:09] <LatvianModder> I kept it as simple as possible

L156[10:20:20] <LatvianModder> didnt even have a registry before

L157[10:20:41] <LatvianModder> still want to work on IContext but now im just waiting for more responses

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L160[10:24:54] <PaleoCrafter> I don't like the type unsafeness of the context, LatvianModder :P

L161[10:25:02] <PaleoCrafter> might be worth to look into HMap implementations in Java

L162[10:25:08] <fry> >.>

L163[10:25:27] <cpw> yeah, it'd be nice if you could make the contexts generic

L164[10:25:31] <cpw> and typesafe

L165[10:25:36] <PaleoCrafter> does HMap ping you, fry? :P

L166[10:25:40] <LatvianModder> Well others dont like my context at all.. And I think Lex has the wrong idea oh what context should be.. because of missing contex.. damnit

L167[10:25:46] <cpw> lol

L168[10:26:14] <LatvianModder> too many OPs in one place! Flee!

L169[10:28:35] <fry> define context in 1 sentence

L170[10:30:06] <LatvianModder> olee: you get the honor

L171[10:30:09] <PaleoCrafter> The circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood.

L172[10:30:43] <PaleoCrafter> https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/context :P

L173[10:30:54] <fry> /kick PaleoCrafter

L174[10:30:58] <fry> :P

L175[10:31:14] <LatvianModder> I think are missing context here <.<

L176[10:31:48] <LatvianModder> from what I understand (and I dont understand that much) its NOT what getters/fields in forge Events are. From what I understand it needs to have EntityPlayer, World, area positions and.. er.. well thats about as far as my memory goes

L177[10:33:11] <fry> you're the author of the PR and you don't understand that much?

L178[10:34:21] <LatvianModder> Well my permission handler doesnt use context at all but everyone keeps telling me (and Lex specifically) that it HAS to have one, so I designed it how it was described by lex

L179[10:37:24] <fry> obvious microimprovement: replace string keys with a concretely typed objects with a marker interface, for example, parametrized by the stored value

L180[10:37:47] <LatvianModder> |:I

L181[10:37:57] <PaleoCrafter> exactly what I meant by implementing a HMap :P

L182[10:38:06] <LatvianModder> https://github.com/MinecraftForge/MinecraftForge/pull/3155/commits/47784af1fdf471eb2bed2e75865f2ba8d13ca4f4

L183[10:38:08] <fry> no, hmap is 1 step further

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L185[10:39:13] <LatvianModder> I dont really know how PRs work, but if it gets merged does every commit in my PR get added to forge commits or just one big commit?

L186[10:39:22] <PaleoCrafter> they'll get squashed

L187[10:39:25] <LatvianModder> because I know changelogs display just one, a.k.a the PR name

L188[10:39:26] <PaleoCrafter> so one big commit

L189[10:39:44] <fry> why did you switch from ContextKey<T> to String?

L190[10:39:45] <LatvianModder> ok, I was getting worried about making too many commits, because I didnt want to spam Forge repo lol

L191[10:40:14] <LatvianModder> Because they do the same essentially

L192[10:40:32] <LatvianModder> There was no real improvement. I still compared their IDs, not direct references only

L193[10:40:44] <fry> why are you storing the id at all?

L194[10:40:58] <fry> why isn't just the object enough?

L195[10:41:04] <LatvianModder> I.. uh.. hmm.. because... hmm

L196[10:41:13] <LatvianModder> Thats a good question

L197[10:41:17] <PaleoCrafter> they hardly do the same thing if one gives you type information and the other doesn't :P

L198[10:41:22] <fry> ^

L199[10:41:49] <PaleoCrafter> but the object should have some sort of identifier attached to it, you might have two BlockPos in one context, I'd wager

L200[10:42:10] <LatvianModder> Well Fine I can switch back to key. Strings are all the same object, so no Performance improvement

L201[10:42:17] <PaleoCrafter> oh, nvm, comparing references xD

L202[10:42:30] <fry> IContext.get became more unsafe with the change

L203[10:42:33] <LatvianModder> ID has to be there

L204[10:42:49] <fry> for what?

L205[10:43:13] <LatvianModder> because the permission handler wont know anything about the key otherwise, if its added by mod

L206[10:43:16] <PaleoCrafter> ^

L207[10:43:34] <fry> what can it do if it knows it's ID otherwise?

L208[10:43:45] <LatvianModder> like, say, I add ContextKey<TileEntity> MY_KEY = new ContextKey<TileEntity>();

L209[10:44:07] <LatvianModder> It at least knows what object it needs, if its handling another mods permission

L210[10:44:13] <LatvianModder> without soft/hard dependency

L211[10:44:25] <fry> what does it have to do with ID?

L212[10:44:46] <LatvianModder> how would you get my TileEntity out of context without knowing ID?

L213[10:44:59] <LatvianModder> If you create your own Key, its not the same reference as my mods key

L214[10:45:04] <LatvianModder> but it Can be the same ID

L215[10:45:05] <PaleoCrafter> if it has "my_key" attached to it and you know it's a TileEntity, you can construct a new ContextKey instance to get it without a hard dependency

L216[10:45:13] <LatvianModder> exactly ^

L217[10:45:13] <LexManos> Its fine that the permissions handler doesnt know anything about mod added context.

L218[10:45:22] <LexManos> but if it DOES then it should be able to use it

L219[10:45:28] <LatvianModder> ah, hey lex, just in time

L220[10:45:32] <LexManos> No im not

L221[10:45:35] <LatvianModder> darn

L222[10:45:37] <LexManos> going back to bed soon

L223[10:45:53] <LatvianModder> ok. Please decide quickly. String or ContextKey<T>?

L224[10:46:09] <fry> so, you want someone to be able to retrive the value associated with your mod without depending on the code of said mod

L225[10:46:13] <LatvianModder> Both will have string ID anyway

L226[10:46:23] <fry> "decide quickly" is not how things should be done

L227[10:46:24] <LexManos> I prefer ContextKey<T>(String) as it 1) allows for faster comparisons, 2) Allows for type safty

L228[10:46:38] <LatvianModder> Ok. Stupid decision to remove it then. Adding it back

L229[10:47:40] <fry> point 1: ResourceLocation is probably better since we're dealing with allocating a namespace for all mods to share, and it's what it's for

L230[10:47:58] <LexManos> naw

L231[10:48:07] <LexManos> the names are meant to be shared

L232[10:48:12] <LatvianModder> oh no. no RLs

L233[10:48:55] <fry> hmm

L234[10:49:10] <fry> why not use the stored Class<T> as the key btw?

L235[10:49:29] <fry> looks like they map 1 to 1, no?

L236[10:49:48] <LexManos> No? Because you can have two Entity's for example.

L237[10:49:52] <LexManos> Attacker and Target

L238[10:49:59] <fry> I see

L239[10:50:43] <LatvianModder> and should I go with Only get(), set() and has() in IContext, or should getWorld() and getPlayer() stay as special values?

L240[10:50:52] <fry> if you have Attacker and Target, what's stored in the Entity key? nothing? one of them?

L241[10:51:24] <LexManos> both

L242[10:51:25] <LatvianModder> probably nothing. not every key has to be used

L243[10:51:41] <LatvianModder> wait.. both? what?

L244[10:51:44] <LexManos> or do you mean the "entity" ?

L245[10:51:48] <fry> yes

L246[10:51:50] <LexManos> then neither.

L247[10:52:09] <PaleoCrafter> fry, with Class<T> you'd also have a problem with providing the information you'd need (i.e. is value.getClass() used as key and if not, how would you pass the key for GenericType<XYZ>)

L248[10:52:17] <LexManos> or, if the community decides the actor should always be the entity, then the attacker

L249[10:52:17] <LatvianModder> I will have seperate keys for attacker<Entity> and target<Entity>

L250[10:52:49] <LexManos> It gets complicated, but this is somehting we need to design a generic thing for

L251[10:53:06] <LexManos> If no context is ever added by the community then oh well the handler get no context.

L252[10:53:21] <LatvianModder> those keys I have are just.. helper keys (I cant find another name) something that is there by default but is not guaranteed to be used

L253[10:53:33] <LexManos> There are very few permissions checks that base MC should do, maybe block.place/break... and thats about it.

L254[10:54:25] <fry> so, what will use the, for example, "attacker" key? I assume entity attack code will create the context, set the key, and cal hasPermission, correct? what happens next?

L255[10:54:30] <LatvianModder> Forge shouldnt add any checks

L256[10:54:34] <LatvianModder> Our mods will do it

L257[10:54:46] <LatvianModder> Forge just gets the api. Just like with Energy api

L258[10:54:54] <fry> I want a concrete example

L259[10:55:39] <fry> first of all, forge will have to add those context generations everywhere, correct? or will mods to that themselves by listening to events?

L260[10:55:58] <LexManos> Havent decided there are two camps.

L261[10:56:16] <LexManos> We have enough events in vanilla to make them not need specifically perm checks

L262[10:56:52] <LexManos> Maybe replace the command system and the block place which are really the only areas in vanilla that use 'premissions' (op)

L263[10:57:02] <LatvianModder> Forge doesnt add ANYTHING other than this api

L264[10:57:08] <LexManos> and, the creative spawn thing which is stupid and not a command

L265[10:57:26] <LatvianModder> WE listen to events and decide how we want users to configure permissions. we add those permission checks ourselves

L266[10:57:34] <LexManos> We NEED some way of overriding the required isOp value.

L267[10:57:56] <LexManos> And no I dont want 6,000 mods adding block place perm checks

L268[10:58:05] <fry> alright, that's one side, what happens on the receiving end of the hasPermission? imaginary mod X adds a fancy config file and wants to control some permissions with it, what's the process?

L269[10:58:19] <LatvianModder> pretty much

L270[10:58:25] <LatvianModder> thats how all permission mods work

L271[10:58:40] <LatvianModder> better not to think how bukkit plugins implemented it

L272[10:58:42] <LexManos> it gets setup as the perm handler, it decides however it wants using the key and context to allow or deny the perm

L273[10:58:59] <fry> so 1 global perm handler

L274[10:59:07] <LexManos> yes

L275[10:59:11] <LatvianModder> yes

L276[11:02:16] ⇨ Joins: Pymous (~Pymous@clapity.eu)

L277[11:02:33] <olee> 1 global is fine, because modders could then add a handler that delegates perm checks to sub handlers

L278[11:03:03] <olee> and btw about this uslesss context talk - that is actually something that should go into forge events - not permission API

L279[11:03:20] <olee> somhow most ppl mix up those two

L280[11:03:22] <LexManos> no no delegation

L281[11:03:38] <fry> what would it delegate based on?

L282[11:03:44] <LexManos> One handler thats it

L283[11:03:55] <LexManos> if the handler doesnt know how to handle the context then it doesnt handle the context

L284[11:03:55] <PaleoCrafter> Pokemon Go Plus, really?

L285[11:04:11] <LexManos> if the handler doesnt know how to specially handle the keys, then it just returns the default value

L286[11:04:29] <olee> what you want to achieve with permission contexts right now is shit .... I know no other word for it - no permission system I know of has that weird an implementation - I can give you a nice sample in a few seconds

L287[11:04:46] <LatvianModder> please, explain what IContext should be, because I literally don't know. What EXACT methods should it have

L288[11:04:57] <olee> a good sample would be if you take a look at what file permissions are in linux

L289[11:05:05] <LexManos> no

L290[11:05:11] <LexManos> thats not a good example

L291[11:05:16] <LexManos> because they DO have context

L292[11:05:22] <olee> there you can say USER A (player) has access to directoy B (context = location)

L293[11:05:28] <olee> but you seem to want to make it more like this:

L294[11:05:49] <LatvianModder> sorry, but I need method names and types not examples :P

L295[11:05:57] <olee> USER A, who drank a cup coffee before, has access to directoy B

L296[11:06:06] <olee> but USER A, who drank a cup of tee before, has NO access to directoy B

L297[11:06:08] <LexManos> No, that has nothing to do with it.

L298[11:06:19] <PaleoCrafter> LatvianModder, as far as I can tell, your current context stuff is fine, just not the stringly typing :P

L299[11:06:28] <LexManos> unless some retarded person wants to add a coffee context but I dont see anyone in their right mind adding, or caring about it.

L300[11:06:42] <LatvianModder> Yeah, Paleo, im making ContextKey<T> as we speak(type)

L301[11:06:46] <olee> because that means making an extended context - the whole system would get ambigous...

L302[11:07:01] <LexManos> as it should

L303[11:07:07] <LexManos> the problem with comparing this to a file system

L304[11:07:11] ⇦ Quits: ajb (~al@2a01:4f8:162:4348::2) (Ping timeout: 202 seconds)

L305[11:07:18] <olee> lex - that is the exact thing I see happing if such a generalized context is added

L306[11:07:25] <LexManos> is this is infinitly more complex then a file system

L307[11:07:56] <LexManos> In a file system you always have a hasPermission(path, user, permType)

L308[11:08:00] <LexManos> THATS IT

L309[11:08:04] <olee> yeah - and I say we should keep it simple on that base - WHO = player, WHAT = permission, WHERE = location

L310[11:08:07] ⇦ Quits: Abastro (~Abastro@220.90.231.171) (Ping timeout: 384 seconds)

L311[11:08:29] <LexManos> Thats a problem tho

L312[11:08:33] <LexManos> there can be multiple Whos

L313[11:08:34] <olee> a context should not change a permission - the mod checking for a permission should act differently depending on the context

L314[11:08:48] <olee> because only the mod knows what to do with the context anyway

L315[11:09:01] <LatvianModder> isnt that the same thing though..?

L316[11:09:10] <LatvianModder> either way it changes

L317[11:09:16] ⇨ Joins: Abastro (~Abastro@220.90.231.171)

L318[11:09:28] <olee> example - a block context: the mod would use the information to check "break.minecraft.dirt" for example and not check "break" + context(player, block)

L319[11:09:30] <LexManos> he wants us to force it to be JUST getWorld/getPos/getEntity

L320[11:09:40] <olee> the second one is more like the current design

L321[11:10:02] <LatvianModder> I designed it based on capabilities in my head

L322[11:10:06] <LatvianModder> with get() and has()

L323[11:10:14] <LatvianModder> so that you can attach anything you want

L324[11:10:18] <LexManos> "break" + context(player, pos, block) is exactly what we want

L325[11:10:23] <LatvianModder> it will have position ofc if you want to

L326[11:10:27] <olee> nooo

L327[11:10:34] <PaleoCrafter> that's the powerful thing though, olee :P if there was a permission handler which supported very generic definition of block states, users could add a break { facing = north } permission or something

L328[11:10:39] <LexManos> because it allows for things such as adventure maps, or regional based management

L329[11:10:50] <olee> ...

L330[11:10:53] <LatvianModder> na na, break.blockID is what we want but context doesnt hurt

L331[11:10:53] ⇨ Joins: cpup (~cpup@32.218.118.24)

L332[11:11:09] <olee> ok now I see the problem

L333[11:11:19] <olee> where those different opinions come fron

L334[11:11:41] <LexManos> if a permisisons mod WANTS to base its decision on the type of block it can, I think it would be stupid but i can see where it would be useful.

L335[11:12:29] <LexManos> Point is it needs the context to do so. And we can't possibly think of ALL the vairants of context a mod would want/need.

L336[11:12:54] <LexManos> Not all perm mods would CARE about all contexts. See the default which doesnt grab any besides isOp

L337[11:13:36] <olee> but that is not a permission any more

L338[11:13:47] <LexManos> But we HAVE to support the very basics of say, a factions based system which is pretty much the simplest, and fits into your who/what/where paradime.

L339[11:14:09] <LexManos> Yes, it is, its just more refined.

L340[11:14:18] <LatvianModder> Context will contain pos. so you can find what area you are in, thats check

L341[11:14:32] <LatvianModder> in case of hitting a block or smth

L342[11:14:44] *** Mine|dreamland is now known as minecreatr

L343[11:15:01] <LatvianModder> you create those block permission events anyway, and you can handle them how you want. thats why implemenation is required for advanced stuff

L344[11:15:11] <olee> well - I have nothing against extendable context - but the approach with a map sucks performance wise - and is no improvement compared to using interfaces

L345[11:15:22] <LexManos> You COULD just have it be the 3, who/what/where. But it limits a lot of functionlaity.

L346[11:15:25] <olee> you can do the same with interfaces because you need to import the keys anyway

L347[11:15:36] <LexManos> I'd rather have who/what/[...]

L348[11:15:53] <LexManos> what map?

L349[11:15:57] <LexManos> It shouldnt be using a map

L350[11:16:09] <olee> it is afaik - isn't it any more LatvianModder?

L351[11:16:23] <LexManos> It SHOULD be using the cap like equevelency system

L352[11:16:49] <LatvianModder> the map isnt even created unless you use custom objects

L353[11:17:05] <LexManos> And if lat even wants go even more into it

L354[11:17:06] <LatvianModder> if you use simple PlayerContext(player) then it just gives you world and player. which is default

L355[11:17:12] <LexManos> he can basically duplicate the cap system

L356[11:17:20] ⇦ Quits: cpup (~cpup@32.218.118.24) (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)

L357[11:17:26] <LexManos> with @PerHolder(Type.class, "name")

L358[11:18:22] <LatvianModder> Not sure about annotations, but yeah, I just want there to be any permission api in Forge. and I will make it whatever it needs to be like to qualify Forge standards. It isnt hard for other permission mods to adapt or wrap it

L359[11:18:30] ⇦ Quits: Dimitriye98 (~Dimitriye@c-73-252-165-178.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)

L360[11:18:31] * fry sighs and dreams about a good consistent fast query system

L361[11:18:37] <olee> well - I had a lot of experience with permissions and I can say that any additional attibutes other than player & location (or area) will never be used anyway

L362[11:18:53] <LexManos> There is no fast and DYNAMIC querry system

L363[11:19:01] <LexManos> Best I could come up with is the cap system :/

L364[11:19:03] <LatvianModder> well, he can dream

L365[11:19:24] <LatvianModder> your thoughts on this? got a LOT of negative feedback, but here you are, suggesting annotations :P https://github.com/MinecraftForge/MinecraftForge/pull/3155#issuecomment-247292936

L366[11:19:32] <LexManos> if no additonal attributes are used then they dont get used

L367[11:19:50] <LexManos> you get a lot fo negative feedback on annotations because 1) IIRC that was kinda dumb

L368[11:19:59] <LexManos> and 2) modders are not programmers, annotations scare them

L369[11:20:10] <LexManos> The best they can do is copy/paste the annotations from a tutorial

L370[11:20:22] <LatvianModder> well they had a point. it didnt get much shorter or better

L371[11:20:49] <LexManos> yes for permisison nodes

L372[11:21:12] <LexManos> but for Contexts it doesnt matter about getting smaller/cleaner

L373[11:21:17] <LexManos> it matters about getting FASTER

L374[11:21:19] <PaleoCrafter> annotations aren't a magic bullet :P

L375[11:21:33] <LexManos> Never said they were?

L376[11:21:51] <LexManos> But they are an excelent way of tracking fields and making sure they allc ontain the exact same instance of something.

L377[11:21:56] <PaleoCrafter> mostly commenting on the "Modders are not programmers, annotations scare them" - even programmers are sometimes scared by them

L378[11:22:01] <LexManos> which allows for == checks vs .equals()

L379[11:22:26] <LatvianModder> There's another small thing I wanted to get in forge, but was forgotten

L380[11:22:46] <LatvianModder> neutural block event https://github.com/MinecraftForge/MinecraftForge/pull/3158

L381[11:23:20] <LatvianModder> This would be much faster than asking permissions (because it would use event bus and no strings / contexts) and mods could fire this event and permission mods could deny it

L382[11:23:28] <LexManos> not fogotten just denied

L383[11:23:30] <LexManos> to generic

L384[11:23:31] <LatvianModder> for custom things like gravity gun picking up blocks

L385[11:23:36] <LexManos> modders can do set/break

L386[11:23:44] <olee> lex: I have another proposal for context, which would probably work faster + offer the same capabilities as the current system without using and IDs or something like that... would that be acceptable?

L387[11:23:47] <LatvianModder> sometimes neither applies

L388[11:23:59] <LexManos> code or stfu

L389[11:24:21] <olee> lol true

L390[11:24:22] <LatvianModder> so for now, my context stays, unless olee or someone else makes a better variant

L391[11:25:09] *** Vigaro is now known as V

L392[11:25:37] <LexManos> I always hate that question is not "Hey I have a suggestion" its "I have this idea thats SOOO much better then yours, should I bother telling you or are you to stubborn and stuck in your ways?"

L393[11:25:50] <olee> it's too simple to need code - just provide an interface that mods can extend - if there is a permission mod that can handle additional context properties, it will just provide an extended IContext interface with additional fields it can check for

L394[11:26:24] <LexManos> the problem with that is it causes hard dependancies on external mods

L395[11:26:30] <olee> this is basically the same as having a context with "keys" that the permission providing mod defines and a mod checking permissions provides

L396[11:26:31] <LexManos> and doesnt allow for common contexts

L397[11:26:33] ⇨ Joins: cpup (~cpup@32.218.118.24)

L398[11:26:34] <PaleoCrafter> ^ how would a mod that checks permission create it?

L399[11:26:53] <olee> it does - just providing a context obj implementing multiple interfaces

L400[11:26:59] <LatvianModder> then better to include capabilities in every permission check lol

L401[11:27:06] <LatvianModder> (pls dont actaully make me do that)

L402[11:27:21] <LexManos> ic2.IContext.getPlayer != buildcraft.IContext.getPlayer

L403[11:27:23] <olee> and a common base context would be provided by forge

L404[11:27:32] <olee> true

L405[11:27:38] <fry> caps are solving the very similar problem

L406[11:27:42] <LexManos> which breaks down the while idea of the perm system not giving a shit where ti came from jsut wanting the player

L407[11:27:58] <LexManos> yes which is why I like the cap-style context system

L408[11:28:25] <olee> well I think I will give up here - the only thing I need a permission api to make sure is that a check ALWAYS requires a sender (player) + location data (position of block broken etc.)

L409[11:28:38] <LatvianModder> actually im suprised how less has itemstacks firing capability events and creating them potentially every tick, hasnt killed any server yet

L410[11:28:46] <LexManos> Thats the other problem

L411[11:28:47] <olee> or it could check for null context (i.e. environment / mobs for example)

L412[11:28:54] <luacs1998> olee, why would i require a location for even checking things like mc.help for example

L413[11:29:02] <LexManos> permisisons DONT ALWAYS have a EntityPlayer/World

L414[11:29:13] <LatvianModder> yes, I have marked them @Nullable

L415[11:29:29] <olee> and then we get the problem that some mods just forget to provide a location

L416[11:29:37] <olee> where the player is right now at

L417[11:29:42] <LatvianModder> its safe. even context itself is @Nullable, since, as you mentioned few examples, there can be cases where world doesnt exist yet

L418[11:29:44] <LexManos> if mods dont supply the location then oh well.

L419[11:29:45] <luacs1998> and why not just get them from the player?

L420[11:30:01] <LexManos> either the perm mod can hard error and force the users/modders hands

L421[11:30:14] <LexManos> or the thing cna gracefully handle the missing permissions

L422[11:30:14] <olee> lex - that is the exact thing I see happening - mods not properly providing the context data - because its so ambigous

L423[11:30:30] <LexManos> Sadly this cant be defined on our end

L424[11:30:40] <LexManos> as soon as we define a explicit standard

L425[11:30:48] <LexManos> 1/2 the people wont live up to it

L426[11:30:52] ⇦ Quits: auenf (David@DC-24-199.bpb.bigpond.com) (Ping timeout: 182 seconds)

L427[11:30:52] <LexManos> and the other 1/2 will want more

L428[11:31:14] <LexManos> I think the context system is the best for now.

L429[11:31:24] <LexManos> And just instruct the modders on best practices.

L430[11:31:26] <olee> it could be - just by loosing a slight bit of universality - and if 1/2 doesn't live up with it, they will just have to hard-depend on the permission mod like it is now

L431[11:31:28] <LatvianModder> ok, thank you. now I can get back to work

L432[11:31:55] <olee> well - I pray to god for modders to properly use it then \o/

L433[11:31:57] <LexManos> humm mother fucker

L434[11:32:06] <LexManos> my phone is telling me its time to wake up, from the other room

L435[11:32:08] <LexManos> assholes

L436[11:32:11] ⇨ Joins: auenf (David@DC-24-199.bpb.bigpond.com)

L437[11:32:12] <LexManos> i was gunna go back to bed

L438[11:32:50] <fry> sorry >.>

L439[11:32:57] <luacs1998> sorry

L440[11:33:16] <fry> do you have somewhere to be? if not - go back to bed anyway :D

L441[11:33:24] <olee> uhm... sorry

L442[11:33:57] <LatvianModder> sorry. at least you are fully awake now.. theres always silver lighting!

L443[11:34:42] <fry> lining

L444[11:34:49] <PaleoCrafter> yeah, I think you wanted that :P

L445[11:34:53] <LexManos> I have to be awake to accept a delivery.

L446[11:34:56] * fry will be back later :D

L447[11:35:05] <LexManos> Which happens sometime between 9:30 and noon

L448[11:40:44] <luacs1998> your namecards or something?

L449[11:41:04] <PaleoCrafter> need a logo for that first :P

L450[11:41:08] <LexManos> No, something that should of shown up before Pax but didnt because slow derped.

L451[11:41:37] <luacs1998> ah

L452[11:47:47] <luacs1998> lex, if you want vanilla mc to do perm checks, i can get them done for you after the perms PR is in

L453[11:49:56] ⇦ Quits: Naiten (Naiten@5.143.96.71) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

L454[11:50:34] <LexManos> we kinda need to, 1 to override the default system and 2 to stop 10,000 mods checking perms all the time.

L455[11:50:57] <luacs1998> alright

L456[11:51:13] <cpw> why is it

L457[11:51:17] <luacs1998> expect a follow up PR from me after you pull this :)

L458[11:51:20] <cpw> that there's always one person

L459[11:51:24] <cpw> and it's always the SAME person

L460[11:51:31] <cpw> that has to repeat ad nauseum

L461[11:51:40] <cpw> that we're the toxic hellhole of shitstains?

L462[11:51:46] <cpw> what is his beef?

L463[11:52:03] <luacs1998> cpw, reddit?

L464[11:53:14] <cpw> aye

L465[11:53:18] <cpw> what is fyber's beef?

L466[11:53:24] <LexManos> Hehe

L467[11:53:28] <cpw> why does he constantly spew the aggressive hate?

L468[11:53:33] <LexManos> let me see if I can find the old pastebins

L469[11:54:08] <cpw> heh

L470[11:54:27] <SkySom> I don't know. It's kinda sad to watch at this point.

L471[11:54:28] <LexManos> But TLDR version is he is a '14 year old genious' who attempted to make a Forge killer API and tried to get me to help him do it, but in a round about way and got pissed at me for not helping him.

L472[11:54:32] <SkySom> Like there's quite the hate there.

L473[11:54:37] <LexManos> And then tried to save my soul with some evangelical bullshit

L474[11:54:38] <luacs1998> welp

L475[11:54:43] <LexManos> which I laughed at him for

L476[11:54:47] <SkySom> Wait that was fyber?!

L477[11:54:54] <LexManos> then tried to guilt me by saying he was suicidal from being bullied

L478[11:54:58] <cpw> oh no

L479[11:54:58] <LexManos> which I laughed at him for

L480[11:55:01] <cpw> the poor kid

L481[11:55:10] <cpw> that's actually quite sad

L482[11:55:18] <cpw> he's probably very lonely

L483[11:55:44] <LexManos> Kids a twat, he should try making friends by talking to people and not being an asshat to them.

L484[11:55:49] <cpw> yeah i know

L485[11:55:52] <cpw> but at the same time

L486[11:55:58] <cpw> if he's got a problem with social interaction

L487[11:56:02] <cpw> it can be very hard to learn

L488[11:56:10] <LexManos> A lot of people do, Hell I do.

L489[11:56:19] <LexManos> But I dont expect people to cator to me.

L490[11:56:20] <cpw> online communities like this one aren't exactly the easiest of places

L491[11:56:23] <cpw> i know

L492[11:56:29] <LexManos> I own, and fully understand that i'm an asshole.

L493[11:56:31] <cpw> i've learned a lot

L494[11:56:38] <luacs1998> eh, same here

L495[11:56:41] <PaleoCrafter> lol, so they are making an MC clone and use Mojang assets?

L496[11:56:44] <cpw> lex: embrace your own asshole

L497[11:56:45] <cpw> :D

L498[11:56:52] <luacs1998> to your credit, lex, you were more of an asshole in the old days

L499[11:56:53] <LexManos> Every night baby ;)

L500[11:57:00] <cpw> hahahaha

L501[11:57:06] <cpw> eh, we all were luacs1998

L502[11:57:07] <SkySom> Get a room you two lol

L503[11:57:08] <luacs1998> so at least imo you're easier to work with nowadays

L504[11:57:21] <LexManos> hehe you guys have no idea, just remmeber that minecraft isnt my first major public project

L505[11:58:01] <MalkContent> I always viewed lex more like this grumpy wizard with a big bushy beard

L506[11:58:10] <SkySom> That's pretty fitting lol

L507[11:58:15] <MalkContent> dealing with noobs like a professor would deal with first semesters

L508[11:58:28] <luacs1998> aha

L509[11:58:35] <luacs1998> no god damn way

L510[11:58:39] <SkySom> Welp that's the image I have of him now.

L511[11:58:39] <MalkContent> mainly by facepalming

L512[11:58:42] <LexManos> I've earned my grumpy old man abilities.

L513[11:58:44] <luacs1998> i think of him as a desk-throwing Linus Torvalds

L514[11:58:48] <SkySom> Even having met him in person... That's the only image I have now

L515[11:58:49] <LexManos> Been doing this shit far to long to deal with the kids

L516[11:59:06] <MalkContent> <3

L517[11:59:37] <cpw> hehe luacs

L518[11:59:40] <LexManos> https://www.reddit.com/r/feedthebeast/comments/531trm/why_i_am_opposed_to_forge_energy/

L519[11:59:45] <LexManos> Ohh looks like a fun read!

L520[11:59:50] <cpw> it is

L521[11:59:54] <cpw> i've been commenting there

L522[12:00:03] <cpw> ecu's overall hypothesis is pretty flawed

L523[12:00:17] <LexManos> "energy is something that hasn't been utilizing a consistent system."

L524[12:00:21] <LexManos> First off, hes fucking wrong

L525[12:00:22] <LexManos> but meh

L526[12:00:23] <cpw> i think he credits forge "adoption" as much more important than it really is

L527[12:00:27] <SkySom> I give you a lot of credit in that thread dude. You're getting a lot more shit than you deserve for answering stuff.

L528[12:00:33] <cpw> people have opinions on power

L529[12:00:35] <luacs1998> lol

L530[12:00:43] <cpw> if you have an opinion, likely you're not gonna use forge energy

L531[12:00:56] <cpw> if you don't, but think energy is something your mod needs for whatever reason

L532[12:00:56] <IoP> Who was unsatisfied with Forge devs?

L533[12:01:01] <cpw> you now have forge energy

L534[12:01:05] <cpw> instead of COFH RG

L535[12:01:06] <cpw> RF

L536[12:01:16] <MalkContent> "forge adds new api. users pissed modders have new tools"

L537[12:01:18] <cpw> that's the ENTIRE substance of the actual act

L538[12:01:29] <luacs1998> lex, cpw, i must say, as a mech engineer in training, there's AC and DC electricity, mechanical power, and of course if someone chooses to invent it, rainbow farts and the power of friendship

L539[12:01:32] <IoP> Forge sucks. It makes my CPU to cry!

L540[12:01:39] <cpw> yup luacs

L541[12:01:49] <luacs1998> you can convert from AC to DC, from DC to AC, and from electrical power to mech power

L542[12:02:09] <luacs1998> it just so happens that we mainly use electrical power

L543[12:02:21] <LexManos> Thats the thing

L544[12:02:24] <luacs1998> but if you want to use mech power or rainbow farts you can

L545[12:02:27] <LexManos> we've tried to be transparent here

L546[12:02:32] ⇨ Joins: LordIllyohs (~LordIllyo@2602:304:cf32:f980:e002:875:7132:da37)

L547[12:02:32] *** LordIllyohs is now known as illy

L548[12:02:36] <LexManos> THIS IS NOT A GLOBAL POWERSYSTEM

L549[12:02:46] <LexManos> We ENCOURAGE others to fucking make power systems

L550[12:02:48] <PaleoCrafter> I feel like a lot of the people complaining about Energy haven't read the primer on it

L551[12:02:54] <LexManos> but if you dont give a shit, then use this

L552[12:02:55] <luacs1998> and if you think you're going against your principles and you completely refuse to make a rainbow-fart to 230V AC onverther you can

L553[12:02:56] <illy> morning o/

L554[12:03:08] <luacs1998> because the modder's artistic integrity should be respected

L555[12:03:43] <luacs1998> and the modder very damn well should respect his own artistic integrity if the angry mob comes and demands a rainbow-fart to AC converter

L556[12:03:50] <IoP> Are those rainbow colored farts or from rainbows?!

L557[12:04:21] <PaleoCrafter> luacs1998, at that point a dedicated converter mod would probably emerge :P

L558[12:04:46] <LexManos> http://puu.sh/rdmdA/3675c588eb.png

L559[12:04:49] <LexManos> no, just no

L560[12:04:57] <luacs1998> and you can go all Greg and take steps to protect your artistic integrity or you can be a nice guy and let the converter coexist

L561[12:04:57] <LexManos> If you want a PR to be accepted, dont do this

L562[12:05:10] <luacs1998> lol ehehehehehehe

L563[12:05:16] <PaleoCrafter> they sent you an e-mail? lol

L564[12:06:41] <IoP> well at least he was polite

L565[12:06:53] <LexManos> alwo cpw, was it this thread you were talking abouy about fyber?

L566[12:07:19] <PaleoCrafter> "RF über alles" were you referring to the banned verse of the German anthem there, cpw? :P

L567[12:07:39] <IoP> and provided shitloads of intomation. Better than "I have a problem, can you help me<end of message>"

L568[12:08:02] <PaleoCrafter> they could have used the time writing that message actually using their brain though, IoP :P

L569[12:09:37] <luacs1998> i just realized RF can also be short for Rainbow Farts

L570[12:09:55] <PaleoCrafter> maybe it initially was? D:

L571[12:09:55] <LexManos> https://twitter.com/gudenauPub

L572[12:10:05] <LexManos> aww hes blocked me on twitter i cant see that other side of the chat...

L573[12:10:09] <IoP> I still wonder is using non-updated API then better than using built-in API? luckily i do not write mods

L574[12:10:11] <LexManos> oh wait this is the internet!

L575[12:10:33] <PaleoCrafter> I've seen gudenau in here

L576[12:10:35] <PaleoCrafter> I think

L577[12:11:03] <LexManos> The #1 reason I added the energy system IoP is because I got tired of people bitching about RF not being updated, and tired of the 10,000 slightly different broken clones.

L578[12:11:20] <LexManos> AND the fact that I have good reason to beleive that it will never be updated by the ofifical source

L579[12:11:29] <luacs1998> lex, what chat do you want to see?

L580[12:11:51] <luacs1998> @voxcpw @amadornes Hey, I just dislike Lex. The rest are fine! :-D

L581[12:11:51] <luacs1998> Just wish he was not on IRC, has made modding more difficult.

L582[12:11:59] <luacs1998> @voxcpw @amadornes Yeah, but I wanted to add a feature and he refused to help. Then banned me when I attempted to add it with a coremod. :-/

L583[12:12:09] <luacs1998> @voxcpw @amadornes Because he did not help at all and called my code garbage when it was almost exactly what someone else implemented.

L584[12:12:10] <MalkContent> one thing I'd really like for forge to have a cap for

L585[12:12:16] <MalkContent> is wrenchables

L586[12:12:34] <IoP> <3

L587[12:12:37] <amadornes> MalkContent, I already PRed a new wrenching/rotation system a while ago

L588[12:12:45] <amadornes> Lex closed it because he wanted to merge it with FMP

L589[12:12:46] <luacs1998> and then after that is all arguing about patch semantics

L590[12:12:46] <MalkContent> \o/

L591[12:12:58] <amadornes> which is something I'm... mostly okay with

L592[12:13:03] <cpw> yes, fyber complains in it. like he does in every thread about forge

L593[12:13:05] <amadornes> though having it in already would be nice :P

L594[12:13:15] <MalkContent> na it's okay

L595[12:13:34] <cpw> he's just pissing and moaning because you didn't hand hold his patch attempt lex

L596[12:13:36] <PaleoCrafter> amadornes, how's FMP coming along by the way? hurr durr

L597[12:13:37] <amadornes> it even added a way to differentiate between wrenches and non-wrenches (like frame motors and stuff like that)

L598[12:13:37] <MalkContent> if it's finished eventually, that'sa nice thing

L599[12:13:56] <amadornes> PaleoCrafter, been waiting for Lex to review some code for a couple of months now... not sure if he even knows I'm waiting lol

L600[12:14:02] <MoxieGrrl_> I kind of want to beat him over the head with a stick.

L601[12:14:12] <PaleoCrafter> hence the "hurr durr" :P

L602[12:14:21] <amadornes> but I've been poking at it regardless from time to time

L603[12:14:43] <LexManos> oh right this was the kid who made a pr with hand edited patch files.

L604[12:15:10] <IoP> "I did not edit the patches though..." :P

L605[12:15:34] <LexManos> Our patch generators can not phyisclaly make the patches his first PR had

L606[12:16:06] <LexManos> almost done with your fucking video amadornes serously you need background music

L607[12:16:12] <amadornes> lol Lex

L608[12:16:19] <LexManos> just got to the forge part

L609[12:16:25] <amadornes> it's made for people to play in the background while working on other stuff

L610[12:16:32] <amadornes> and play their own music

L611[12:16:50] <illy> let me grab my lute while I watch the video

L612[12:16:59] <LexManos> meh

L613[12:17:01] <amadornes> also, youtube copyright is a pain in the neck, so I just don't play music unless I know for sure it won't be taken down

L614[12:17:18] <MoxieGrrl_> Fuck Youtube with a giant rusty spork for that.

L615[12:17:30] <illy> ouch...

L616[12:17:33] <Tazz> well that was awaste XD

L617[12:17:36] <LexManos> I REALLY dont want to fucking review more multipart shit y.y

L618[12:17:42] <amadornes> heh

L619[12:17:49] <amadornes> I'm making it nicer

L620[12:17:49] <Tazz> spent like 2 hourswriting support for arm instead of armv7 for my compiler XD

L621[12:17:50] <LexManos> its so much shit

L622[12:17:54] <amadornes> and smaller

L623[12:17:57] <amadornes> MUCH smaller

L624[12:18:00] <LexManos> please do!

L625[12:18:08] <LexManos> let me know when thats done

L626[12:18:09] <luacs1998> i think i just offended half the bronies on /r/feedthebeast

L627[12:18:20] <amadornes> what I wanted you to look at was the new slot mechanic I came up with

L628[12:18:41] <amadornes> which is basically a hybrid between the one you suggested (hardcoded slots) and the one in MCMP (parts don't really need to occupy a slot)

L629[12:19:08] <amadornes> it has some default slots (EnumFacing, EnumEdge and EnumCorner)

L630[12:19:19] <amadornes> but you can register your own if you really need them, for stuff like C&B

L631[12:19:31] ⇦ Quits: quadraxis (~quadraxis@cpc77293-basf12-2-0-cust699.12-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 384 seconds)

L632[12:19:37] <amadornes> and you can define the interaction order depending on where the interaction is happening

L633[12:19:47] <amadornes> and how previous slots will be handled

L634[12:19:55] <amadornes> let me get you a link... it's just a couple of files

L635[12:20:10] <Tazz> and I also found arm to be very terrible XD

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L637[12:20:23] <illy> heh

L638[12:21:38] <LexManos> "not that capabilities are the best system" YOU BASTARD, YOU INSULT MY HONOR!

L639[12:22:40] <amadornes> I mean... they're nice, but the implementation could be a bit nicer

L640[12:22:55] <LexManos> The implementation is file

L641[12:23:01] <LexManos> ItemStacks are just a fucking pain in the ass

L642[12:23:12] <LexManos> I seriously hate item stacks

L643[12:23:14] <amadornes> that is true, yeah

L644[12:23:19] <amadornes> 1.11 makes them a lot nicer, though

L645[12:23:25] <amadornes> final Item field <3

L646[12:23:25] <LexManos> Havent looked

L647[12:23:34] <amadornes> no more fucking around with the item

L648[12:23:39] <amadornes> and built-in null checks

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L650[12:27:34] <cpw> final Item will help a lot

L651[12:28:09] <luacs1998> cpw, lol you forgot your EnergySystems.md link

L652[12:28:22] <cpw> i know

L653[12:28:24] <cpw> that was deliberate

L654[12:28:36] <cpw> that statement *should* be unnecessary

L655[12:28:41] <amadornes> no more Item.getMetadata(stack) to get the stack's meta in initCapabilities() is going to be great

L656[12:28:45] <cpw> in practice, it WON'T be unecessary

L657[12:28:53] <cpw> but in a modder-level discussion

L658[12:28:55] <cpw> it SHOULD be

L659[12:29:12] <amadornes> currently calling the stack's getMetadata() or getDamage() crashes with an NPE because the item is still null when the caps are initialized >.<

L660[12:29:29] <luacs1998> but like lex said a long time ago

L661[12:29:46] <luacs1998> "most modders aren't even modders, they just copy/paste shit from tutorials"

L662[12:29:53] <cpw> there's a strong element of that

L663[12:29:54] <luacs1998> i mean, you and i would expect ecu to know better

L664[12:29:56] <cpw> that's why i want fail

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L666[12:30:02] <cpw> that should be their goto

L667[12:30:04] <cpw> not java

L668[12:30:15] <luacs1998> no i think they should be forced into json modding haha

L669[12:30:25] <PaleoCrafter> that's what FAIL is :P

L670[12:30:43] <LatvianModder> 20:23:32 <• amadornes> 1.11 makes them a lot nicer, though - How do you know?

L671[12:30:56] <cpw> heh

L672[12:30:59] <PaleoCrafter> he probably decompiled it, LatvianModder :P

L673[12:31:00] <LexManos> <amadornes> currently calling the stack's getMetadata() or getDamage() crashes with an NPE because the item is still null when the caps are initialized >.<

L674[12:31:00] <LatvianModder> Where can one find MC source code? :P

L675[12:31:01] <LexManos> yes?

L676[12:31:03] <cpw> decompile a snapshot LatvianModder

L677[12:31:06] <amadornes> decompiling, Lat :P

L678[12:31:09] <cpw> you can inspect itemstack yourself

L679[12:31:18] <LatvianModder> Isnt it all func_ names?

L680[12:31:20] <amadornes> yup, that's a thing Lex

L681[12:31:24] <luacs1998> PaleoCrafter, no, i mean json modding the way mojang intended them to

L682[12:31:28] <LatvianModder> Wait, with "vanilla" mcp?

L683[12:31:30] <PaleoCrafter> ah, well

L684[12:31:37] <luacs1998> forge can be for serious people who want to get messy haa

L685[12:31:45] <PaleoCrafter> no deobfuscation at all, LatvianModder :P

L686[12:31:51] <PaleoCrafter> so just letters bunched together

L687[12:31:51] <cpw> no, just run fernflower on the obf code

L688[12:31:52] <LexManos> mojang's official api will be interesting...

L689[12:31:54] <luacs1998> or perhaps just have them all play PE/W10E instead lol

L690[12:31:55] <cpw> you can normally figure it out

L691[12:31:58] <amadornes> I've had to do it the Item.getMetadata() way a couple of times because the meta value is initialized but not the stack iirc

L692[12:32:11] <LatvianModder> Ama: I found a workaround for that

L693[12:32:12] <amadornes> maybe neither are initialized and it's all just a huge mess? I don't know anymore

L694[12:32:16] <LatvianModder> Want to see it?

L695[12:32:19] <IoP> "most coders with hyped systems aren't even coders, they just copy/paste shit from tutorials" there. fixed it

L696[12:32:26] <amadornes> sure, Lat

L697[12:32:36] <amadornes> as long as it's not too hacky

L698[12:32:41] <LatvianModder> Ill link later. On phone rn

L699[12:32:56] <amadornes> that's fine :)

L700[12:33:00] <LatvianModder> Its not hacky. It just depends on how java loads stuff

L701[12:33:25] <amadornes> cool

L702[12:33:30] <luacs1998> cpw, what does FAIL stand again?

L703[12:33:32] <LatvianModder> item.getMetadata(stack) is what you did?

L704[12:33:36] <luacs1998> can we make it stand for SALT haha

L705[12:33:39] <amadornes> it is, Lat

L706[12:33:57] <amadornes> there we go, I finally found the zip file with the slot system... http://ss.amadornes.com/ama-1468075334-291.zip

L707[12:34:06] <amadornes> it's fairly simple

L708[12:34:16] <cpw> Forge Abstract I Layer

L709[12:34:21] <amadornes> you have some time to register your own slots (maybe during pre init)

L710[12:34:30] *** tterrag|ZZZzzz is now known as tterrag

L711[12:34:40] <amadornes> and after that the registry computes the lookup order and actions

L712[12:35:13] <amadornes> and whenever there's a capability/redstone lookup, the multipart container can resort to that lookup table to get the returned value

L713[12:35:17] <LatvianModder> SALTY is something i gotta find words for

L714[12:35:29] <LexManos> "

L715[12:35:30] <LexManos> Forge is not a democracy. If it was a democracy, then it would never have survived."

L716[12:35:33] <LatvianModder> Silicio A.. Ah fuck it

L717[12:35:34] <LexManos> I've been saying this for ages!

L718[12:35:49] <LexManos> Forge is a Monarchy. We are all slaves to the bitch Minecraft.!

L719[12:35:55] <MoxieGrrl_> xD

L720[12:35:57] <amadornes> ^ this

L721[12:36:19] <illy> All hail our benevolent dictator for life

L722[12:36:36] <LatvianModder> How illegal would it be to write bukkit-like modloader?

L723[12:36:40] <ghz|afk> doesn't that sortof make it more like a sect than a monarchy?

L724[12:36:41] <LexManos> "Forge is not a democracy. Sorry. Detractors can stuff it, essentially."

L725[12:36:44] <luacs1998> LatvianModder, bukkit like modloader?

L726[12:36:52] <ghz|afk> Mojang doesn't so much give us orders as we worship them ;P

L727[12:36:53] <LexManos> I've finally fully corrupted cpw.

L728[12:36:56] <luacs1998> lol

L729[12:36:57] <PaleoCrafter> I prefer the term serf myself :P

L730[12:36:58] <LatvianModder> Mm using no minecraft code

L731[12:37:06] <luacs1998> forge has been a monarchy for as long as i remember it

L732[12:37:11] *** ghz|afk is now known as gigaherz

L733[12:37:14] <luacs1998> and i've been here for quite a while

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L735[12:37:29] <luacs1998> i think around when fml was just getting off the ground

L736[12:37:41] <PaleoCrafter> gigaherz, we're a very madochistic sect then, though :P

L737[12:38:06] <LatvianModder> Literally only reason I used Forge in 1.2.5 was custom texture sheets, iirc

L738[12:38:07] <gigaherz> well, yes, but so are all of them

L739[12:38:18] <gigaherz> look at the Apple fan sect

L740[12:38:38] <gigaherz> they keep fucking people over, and all they say is "it was meant to be."

L741[12:39:07] <cpw> hehe

L742[12:39:44] <luacs1998> kek

L743[12:40:08] <LatvianModder> From meme: I phone 7 - no heaphones jack. Iphone 8 - no home button. Iphone 9 - no phone, give us the money

L744[12:40:28] <gigaherz> iphone 9 - no screen

L745[12:40:32] <LatvianModder> And people would still love it

L746[12:40:41] <gigaherz> iphone 10 - no battery

L747[12:40:57] <luacs1998> iphone 10 - no phone

L748[12:41:11] <LatvianModder> Instead you walk with cancer ray around ti charge it

L749[12:41:19] <gigaherz> nono

L750[12:41:23] <gigaherz> it runs on your blood

L751[12:41:40] <LatvianModder> It runs on your happiness about apple products

L752[12:41:41] <kashike> iPhone 9 won't have a screen, it'll use a neural interface

L753[12:41:43] <gigaherz> iphone 11 would be the eyePhone, as seen in futurama

L754[12:41:43] <kashike> iPhone 10 will get installed directly into your brain

L755[12:41:47] <tterrag> it feeds directly on your lifeforce

L756[12:41:53] ⇦ Quits: Dimitriye98 (~Dimitriye@38.sub-70-197-5.myvzw.com) (Remote host closed the connection)

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L758[12:42:10] <tterrag> so you lose days off your life, but hey, no more charging!

L759[12:42:11] <LatvianModder> So BloodMagic, the phone

L760[12:42:15] <PaleoCrafter> it injects itself into your DNA and your kids will be born with built-in iPhones

L761[12:42:33] <gigaherz> but you have to pay apple royalties once a year

L762[12:42:37] <kashike> no, they will be iphones

L763[12:42:37] <PaleoCrafter> of course

L764[12:42:49] <gigaherz> instead of getting gifts

L765[12:42:52] <LatvianModder> I'd actually take XKCD phone over any iphone any day

L766[12:42:52] <PaleoCrafter> if you don't pay, your children will just die

L767[12:42:56] <gigaherz> your children would have to go pay tributeto apple

L768[12:43:04] <gigaherz> and thank them for being allowed to remain alive

L769[12:43:17] <LatvianModder> What a grim future

L770[12:43:19] <amadornes> okay, let's spice up this iphone conversation...

L771[12:43:30] <amadornes> welcome to the hydraulic press channel! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4qF0zEYYNU

L772[12:43:43] <gigaherz> All glory to the hypno-apple

L773[12:44:06] <LexManos> "and yes it is a concern. It's not, however, the end of the world."

L774[12:44:10] <amadornes> there's even magic smoke

L775[12:44:16] <cpw> hehe

L776[12:44:17] <LexManos> Yes, which is why we've stated several times that people should not be retarded

L777[12:44:19] <cpw> yes it is lex

L778[12:44:27] <cpw> i've since been corrected

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L781[12:50:12] <shadekiller666> i have a flash drive that i use for school-related files and such, but when i leave it at home it makes it hard to access those files (obviously). does anyone have any recommendations for ways of auto-syncing the contents of the flash drive with a cloud-based system?

L782[12:51:30] <amadornes> I've used a couple of apps for that before... but I can't recall their names right now (it was a looooooong time ago)

L783[12:51:46] <luacs1998> why not just stop with the flash drive and just log into cloud from school haha

L784[12:51:49] <Corosus> i wonder if making a symlink within the dropbox folder that points to usb drive would work lol

L785[12:51:49] <luacs1998> that's what i do

L786[12:52:21] <shadekiller666> the ideal solution would be, i can log into the cloud-storage at school if i forget my drive, download and modify some file(s), reupload them to the cloud-storage, and then when i turn my home computer on (the one that the drive calls home), it automatically downloads any changes that it finds on the cloud-storage

L787[12:52:39] <amadornes> they waited for the flash drive to get plugged in, made a diff of the files, and pushed it to a private repo on my server

L788[12:52:56] <shadekiller666> luacs, because working off of the drive is faster than having to download the large files that i'm normally working with at school

L789[12:53:56] <shadekiller666> ideally, if i'm working on a school computer, and save something to the flash drive, i would also want it to be able to update the cloud-storage from that machine as well

L790[12:54:36] <shadekiller666> so any changes made to the cloud-storage get synced to the drive and vice versa, assuming there is an available internet connection

L791[12:55:31] <shadekiller666> my home network does have a storage drive that can be accessed remotely

L792[12:55:44] <shadekiller666> though remote connections to it are a bit complicated

L793[12:57:25] <shadekiller666> and the solution would also need to be on the flash drive, not on the computer that its attached to, as i can't install things on school machines

L794[12:57:37] <shadekiller666> school machines are also mac, and i'm on windows normally

L795[12:58:18] <blood|wrk> shadekiller666: why the hell do you even need a flash drive. Just use cloud storage

L796[12:58:26] <LatvianModder> Yeah

L797[12:58:38] <LatvianModder> Get used to downloading and uploading files

L798[12:58:38] <blood|wrk> its 2016.... dropbox has been around for ages

L799[12:58:40] <LatvianModder> :P

L800[12:58:47] <shadekiller666> because its faster to work from the drive, given the large sizes of files

L801[12:58:49] <blood|wrk> and thats just 1 of the 10000 cloud storages

L802[12:59:01] <LatvianModder> And there are plenty of other options than just dropbox

L803[12:59:03] <blood|wrk> ? it syncs to your local computer

L804[12:59:04] <LatvianModder> Yeah

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L807[12:59:57] <blood|wrk> unless your internet is complete garbage then you you'll have to go back to the stone ages and use your flash drive

L808[13:00:05] <blood|wrk> =)

L809[13:00:58] <blood|wrk> how much data are we talking?

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L811[13:01:35] <shadekiller666> the use case would be: the contents of the drive get mirrored to a cloud-based storage medium of some description, such that, should i forget my flash drive, i have the ability to download/upload the files i need from school machines, though i would prefer to work off the flash drive directly on school machines, as the school internet is not the greatest

L812[13:01:50] <blood|wrk> how much data

L813[13:01:56] <blood|wrk> total size

L814[13:02:32] <shadekiller666> one of the main folders in question is currently at 984 MB

L815[13:02:41] <blood|wrk> register on dropbox.com and use that

L816[13:02:43] <blood|wrk> 2GB free

L817[13:02:47] <blood|wrk> it autosyncs too

L818[13:02:57] <shadekiller666> so does google drive

L819[13:03:03] <blood|wrk> so use one or the other

L820[13:03:08] <shadekiller666> the problem is not the cloud-storage medium

L821[13:03:16] <blood|wrk> no need for the flash drive unless you are using different computers everytime you go to school

L822[13:03:27] <shadekiller666> the problem is automatically mirroring the flash drive TO the cloud-storage

L823[13:03:35] <LatvianModder> Isnt 10 gb free?

L824[13:03:39] <blood|wrk> you wouldnt have to auto mirror anything if you just used dropbox

L825[13:03:40] <thor12022> Dropbox lets you select the folder it uses, just point it at the flash drive

L826[13:03:42] <shadekiller666> the school machines are in deep freeze

L827[13:03:54] <shadekiller666> meaning that they get reset to a specific state every night

L828[13:04:11] <shadekiller666> and i also can't install shit on them

L829[13:04:17] <blood|wrk> deep freeze resets usually on reboot

L830[13:04:22] <blood|wrk> unless the machines reboot nightly

L831[13:04:26] <thor12022> there used to be a Pocket Edition Dropbox that could run of a flash drive

L832[13:04:35] <blood|wrk> how fast is the internet?

L833[13:04:39] <blood|wrk> because 984MB is nothing

L834[13:04:43] <blood|wrk> you can download that in seconds with a fast connect

L835[13:04:46] <shadekiller666> and i don't want to HAVE to download a folder from cloud-storage every time i want to work

L836[13:05:04] <blood|wrk> your school running a 14.4 baud modem?

L837[13:05:05] <shadekiller666> the school machines also don't have a fast internet connection

L838[13:05:32] <TechnicianLP> why do i get a warning that "handleDisconnection() called twice" when kicking a player from the server (dedicated)

L839[13:05:39] <IoP> FTB launcher or MMC as portable app?

L840[13:05:53] <blood|wrk> well if the internet sucks, syncing to cloud storage will also suck

L841[13:05:57] <blood|wrk> so you are fucked no matter what you do

L842[13:06:04] <shadekiller666> no idea what the speed is, but it took 20-30 minutes to upload a 362MB folder

L843[13:06:12] <blood|wrk> then syncing to cloud is useless

L844[13:06:30] <shadekiller666> then it only needs to sync on my home machine

L845[13:06:34] <blood|wrk> keep 1 flash drive at school, 1 at home

L846[13:06:49] <shadekiller666> ...

L847[13:07:12] <blood|wrk> if you go to school and add 500MB worth of content

L848[13:07:19] <blood|wrk> enjoy spending an hour waiting while it syncs

L849[13:07:44] <shadekiller666> this isn't solving the problem

L850[13:07:58] <blood|wrk> solving the problem requires a non-shit connection :P

L851[13:08:38] <shadekiller666> the problem is: should i forget my flashdrive, i need to be able to access its contents from school machines

L852[13:08:54] <blood|wrk> your school should be OFFERING you network storage

L853[13:08:58] <blood|wrk> why kind of school is this?

L854[13:09:04] <shadekiller666> it does...

L855[13:09:12] <blood|wrk> so copy your data to that? whats the problem

L856[13:09:32] <shadekiller666> i want the copying to be automatic

L857[13:09:57] <shadekiller666> sync a usb 3.0 flashdrive with a cloud-storage medium automatically

L858[13:10:18] <blood|wrk> why dont you just work off the network storage they provide?

L859[13:10:22] <blood|wrk> so it saves automatically

L860[13:10:44] <shadekiller666> because then i have to download and upload shit

L861[13:11:25] <shadekiller666> and working off of a network drive is often a risky thing to do

L862[13:11:42] <shadekiller666> should the internet go down, all of a sudden you can't save/load

L863[13:12:04] <shadekiller666> you're held hostage by the internet speeds

L864[13:12:49] <LatvianModder> cpw: If I was going to rewrite all forge commands / test mod commands to use CommandTreeBase (where its needed, ofc) would that kind of PR be accepted or cleaning up such code is frowned upon?

L865[13:13:01] <shadekiller666> the school network storage requires login information in order for things to interface with it remotely

L866[13:13:07] <blood|wrk> if internet goes down, you have your local storage. Internet going down is a terrible example

L867[13:13:11] <blood|wrk> as that would prevent cloud syncing too

L868[13:13:15] <cpw> if it's part of your general permissions thingy

L869[13:13:16] <cpw> sure

L870[13:13:30] <cpw> make sure it's obvious if there is a dependency relationship tho in your PR

L871[13:13:32] <LatvianModder> no, its just cleanup. CommandTreeBase already got merged

L872[13:13:37] <cpw> ah ok

L873[13:14:01] <blood|wrk> try this shade

L874[13:14:15] <blood|wrk> install dropbox, and do what Lat said, point it to school drive

L875[13:14:22] <blood|wrk> the initial sync will be the worst

L876[13:14:33] <blood|wrk> but as long as you dont make too many changes after it syncs, you should be fine

L877[13:15:03] <blood|wrk> then just work off that drive, it will autosync to dropbox as you make changes

L878[13:15:26] <LatvianModder> I didnt say that but, yeah ok :P

L879[13:15:36] <LatvianModder> (I think, my memory is short)

L880[13:15:45] <blood|wrk> someone did, who knows =)

L881[13:16:19] <Corosus> dis guy

L882[13:16:24] <blood|wrk> im just surprised you cant access this storage from home

L883[13:16:37] <blood|wrk> they got a bad setup there :P

L884[13:17:02] <shadekiller666> i CAN

L885[13:17:25] <shadekiller666> i don't want it to be a requirement

L886[13:17:39] <shadekiller666> because saving to the flashdrive is much faster

L887[13:17:47] * thor12022 mubles something about having to make sure he got the school library computer with the zip drive

L888[13:17:56] <blood|wrk> what type of data are you saving?

L889[13:18:04] <shadekiller666> Maya scene files

L890[13:18:11] <shadekiller666> Unity projects

L891[13:18:28] <shadekiller666> Maya project folders

L892[13:18:46] <shadekiller666> things that are much larger than, say, word docs

L893[13:18:49] <blood|wrk> well your school internet sucks, you dont want to use their cloud storage (slow). I don't see any other option for you

L894[13:19:20] <shadekiller666> my flashdrive is plugged into my home desktop machine when i don't need it

L895[13:19:35] <shadekiller666> so the sync could be done only on this machine

L896[13:19:37] <blood|wrk> ok so you want this to sync to school?

L897[13:19:41] <PaleoCrafter> I'm still surprised files at my school are accessible remotely

L898[13:20:07] <PaleoCrafter> it uses some web frontend from 2000, but it's available xD

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L900[13:20:17] <shadekiller666> i want this to sync to SOMETHING so that i don't have to call my brother from school and have him upload folder X to my google drive so that i can get to it at school

L901[13:20:33] <shadekiller666> in an ideal world, i would always have my flash drive

L902[13:20:57] <shadekiller666> but on the occasion i do leave it at home, i need to access its contents/file structure

L903[13:21:21] <shadekiller666> and no, the machine its attached to isn't always on, i shut down every time i'm done using this machine

L904[13:21:27] * kashike hugs Google Drive

L905[13:21:30] <blood|wrk> you cant sync it to anything other than your school storage

L906[13:21:36] <blood|wrk> or you would have to download it

L907[13:21:46] <blood|wrk> school storage would be local to the school network

L908[13:21:50] <blood|wrk> assuming they are using their own

L909[13:21:51] <shadekiller666> afaik i'd have to download it anyway

L910[13:22:00] <blood|wrk> is school's storage their own?

L911[13:22:05] <blood|wrk> if so then no you dont

L912[13:22:18] <shadekiller666> the school machines i use only have 1 "account" that every user uses

L913[13:22:30] <blood|wrk> connect to your school's storage from home and sync to that

L914[13:22:39] <blood|wrk> plenty of free tools to do this

L915[13:22:54] <shadekiller666> rather than "type in your student id and password" which would automatically grant access to the school network server

L916[13:23:13] <blood|wrk> 1 account that every user uses? wow sounds so bad

L917[13:23:44] <shadekiller666> i tried VPNing my school's webdrive, but it doesn't seem to have worked for some reason

L918[13:23:59] <blood|wrk> then contact your school's helpdesk and tell them to help you

L919[13:24:03] <blood|wrk> that's THEIR job

L920[13:25:46] <blood|wrk> DSynchronize is a free windows tool that will autosync between 2 folders

L921[13:25:55] <blood|wrk> you can also setup a simple task with Robocopy

L922[13:26:02] <IoP> or is that VPN hack provided by the user, not by admins?

L923[13:26:55] <shadekiller666> the school has student storage servers set up

L924[13:27:24] <shadekiller666> each student is given 2 virtual drives on the school servers, 1 local to the school, and 1 "webdrive"

L925[13:28:08] <IoP> What do you mean by webdrive?

L926[13:28:13] <shadekiller666> when on school machines (at least most school machines), anything saved to a student's webdrive can theoretically be accessed remotely

L927[13:28:33] <shadekiller666> on school machines the webdrive looks like just another drive

L928[13:28:47] <IoP> Do I want to ask why do you need VPN for accessing webdrive?

L929[13:29:08] <shadekiller666> the vpn is to map to the webdrive remotely

L930[13:29:49] <IoP> that's really wierd definition for VPN but continue

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L932[13:34:34] <PaleoCrafter> https://www.reddit.com/r/feedthebeast/comments/531trm/why_i_am_opposed_to_forge_energy/d7pkmc4 lol

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L934[13:36:08] <shadekiller666> in order for anyone to access data stored on the school servers

L935[13:36:42] <shadekiller666> vpn must be used to map the webdrive to the machine in use

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L937[13:37:23] <shadekiller666> so for me to get to the data stored on my school webdrive, i have to map to it on my home machine, which makes it look like an additional drive to my machine

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L939[13:42:14] <IoP> well if that's supposed to work contact admins like someone said. If it is not well use the web interface. Naming it to webdrive seems to be weird if you don't use it with browser

L940[13:49:05] <SatanicSanta> Is there something I'm missing with how to set up an item mesh definition? https://paste.ee/p/Mlybm UtilEnhancements.getIconFromEnhancement doesnt seem to ever get called, and the model in-game is always what it would be for a null `loc`

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L945[13:59:08] <LexManos> For those who care. And for the cunts who insist on stirring drama behind the scenes instead of being real men and doing it in public like I do. https://www.reddit.com/r/feedthebeast/comments/531trm/why_i_am_opposed_to_forge_energy/d7plodv

L946[14:04:47] <IoP> Sounds like you were talking about sonic

L947[14:05:29] <LexManos> no, found the logs it was someone else.

L948[14:06:43] <Ordinastie> I kinda remember that convo you referred to

L949[14:06:47] <Ordinastie> can't remember the name though

L950[14:07:42] <LexManos> Point is I deal with so many stupid people, its not worth remembering who they are. And i've got a notoriously shitty memory as is so sometimes i mix up.

L951[14:07:54] <LexManos> Everyone who matters has the correct story now.

L952[14:08:43] <PaleoCrafter> oh, you mean ltp or whatever his name was?

L953[14:09:02] <LexManos> Yes, the name I was specifically not mentioning to not start drama

L954[14:10:00] ⇦ Quits: silenz (~silenz@185.108.121.43) (Remote host closed the connection)

L955[14:12:23] <IoP> people are stupid. Only way to do devving without that kind of things is just to release shit and not to read any comment/feedback/bug report

L956[14:12:30] <shadekiller666> is the forge energy system an actual energy system with its own units and such or is it more of a platform on which to implement an energy system?

L957[14:12:46] <LexManos> Its 1 interface

L958[14:12:48] <LexManos> Thats it

L959[14:13:01] <LexManos> It has no lore, it has no ingame functions, it has nothing.

L960[14:13:11] <LexManos> Its purely a interface for giving/receiving power.

L961[14:13:47] <LexManos> As stated, people can, and it's encouraged if they want to do fancy lore shit to make a sub-cap and go that route.

L962[14:14:13] <nxsupert> I hope at some point we all agree on some unit name though.

L963[14:14:23] <LexManos> I like FU

L964[14:14:33] <LexManos> but Oficially, its E

L965[14:14:36] <LexManos> Energy

L966[14:14:44] <Kolatra> Simple, but elegant.

L967[14:14:59] *** mikrysoft is now known as MikrySoft

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L970[14:18:05] <shadekiller666> and the idea is that mods will use this interface as the basis of sending/receiving power and will automatically be compatible with each other?

L971[14:18:10] <gigaherz> I both like and dislike the energy api -- it's quite close to mine

L972[14:18:35] <gigaherz> which is nice for compatibility, but also it's quite close to mine, so it's annoying that almost no one seemed interested in mine ;P

L973[14:19:12] <gigaherz> but I don't dislike that it's there

L974[14:19:22] <gigaherz> I think it's good to have something available right in forge

L975[14:19:44] <SkySom> I mean that means yours was quite close to RF

L976[14:19:50] <SkySom> And well Tesla

L977[14:19:51] <gigaherz> shadekiller666: that's the whole idea of an API

L978[14:19:55] <gigaherz> SkySom: yes

L979[14:19:58] <SkySom> Most those energy api were really close lol

L980[14:20:12] <gigaherz> my API was based on the ideas of RF

L981[14:20:19] <gigaherz> but applied to a similar interface to IItemHandler

L982[14:20:24] <LexManos> https://github.com/MinecraftForge/MinecraftForge/commit/45097fed0c054407dedcf4cb9bab0e54b977d7e7#commitcomment-18996680

L983[14:20:41] <gigaherz> https://github.com/gigaherz/CapabilityCore/tree/master/src/main/java/gigaherz/capabilities/api/energy

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L988[14:25:15] <LatvianModder> I need a clarification how @CapabilityInject works. I could put this anywhere, @ any inferface, and forge would inject it for me, if it gets registred, right?

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L990[14:25:31] <gigaherz> LatvianModder: when a capability does

L991[14:25:36] <gigaherz> read the javadocs on it

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L993[14:25:39] <gigaherz> it has two uses

L994[14:26:01] <gigaherz> 1. on a field of type Capability<T>, it will assign the corresponding capability upon its registration

L995[14:26:04] <LatvianModder> right, but cap A gets injected with the same object as B, right?

L996[14:26:11] <LatvianModder> so == checks still work

L997[14:26:13] <gigaherz> 2. on a method with a Capability parameter, it will get called with the instance

L998[14:26:14] <gigaherz> yes

L999[14:26:19] <gigaherz> Capability is like Item or Block

L1000[14:26:23] <LatvianModder> ok, thats all I needed

L1001[14:26:24] <gigaherz> there's only one for each interface

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L1003[14:26:56] <LatvianModder> so APIs dont even need to include their default capability injections... need to remove some shit code from mine then

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L1005[14:29:26] <gigaherz> yup that's the point of the annotation ;P

L1006[14:29:35] <gigaherz> basically: it's possible to implement a capability

L1007[14:29:46] <gigaherz> without ever having a hard dependency on any external class

L1008[14:29:51] <gigaherz> and without using reflection tricks to work around it

L1009[14:30:04] <gigaherz> all it requires is that the default implementation is good enough for you

L1010[14:30:14] <gigaherz> the instances obtained through cap.getDefaultInstance

L1011[14:30:19] <gigaherz> it's a bit "dirty"

L1012[14:30:29] <gigaherz> since you have to work with non-specialized generic types

L1013[14:30:35] <gigaherz> and Object for the instance of the capability

L1014[14:30:41] <gigaherz> but it can be done.

L1015[14:32:52] <LexManos> @CapabilityInject

L1016[14:33:00] <LexManos> is essentially the same thing as @ObjectHolder

L1017[14:33:07] <LexManos> just for caps, and not registry items

L1018[14:33:22] <gigaherz> another feature most people never learn about

L1019[14:33:31] <LexManos> <LatvianModder> so APIs dont even need to include their default capability injections... need to remove some shit code from mine then

L1020[14:33:32] <LexManos> ?

L1021[14:34:05] <LexManos> there are examples in Forge how to do an API that declares a capability correctly

L1022[14:34:07] <LatvianModder> https://github.com/LatvianModder/Silicio/blob/1.9/src/main/api/com/latmod/silicio/api/SilicioAPI.java#L33-L40

L1023[14:34:13] <LatvianModder> stuff like this

L1024[14:34:29] <LexManos> No, thats not needed

L1025[14:34:31] <LatvianModder> I mean.. I guess it doesnt hurt to be there..

L1026[14:34:41] <LexManos> and if its not in Forge, its encouraged to NOT make that a public API

L1027[14:34:52] <LexManos> because it encourages people to just use those fields

L1028[14:34:59] <LexManos> which defeats the entire purpose of soft linking deps

L1029[14:35:10] <LexManos> The PROPER way to do it is to in your TE class

L1030[14:35:10] <LatvianModder> yeah, so, thats why im saying, gonna remove those

L1031[14:35:15] <LexManos> put a @CapHolder yourself

L1032[14:35:29] <LatvianModder> I previously thought that every @InjectCapability is its own object, thus == wouldnt work

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L1035[14:35:41] <LexManos> local static field access == SUPER fast and no hard deps

L1036[14:35:42] <LexManos> Nope

L1037[14:35:54] <LexManos> The entire point is they are the same and can use == for super fast comparisons

L1038[14:36:33] <LatvianModder> I guess ill put them in JavaDoc, which ones Can be injected.. otherwise, how would people know

L1039[14:37:57] <LatvianModder> Oh thats interesting.. Ill have to find a use for that "When placed on a METHOD, the method will be invoked once the capability is registered"

L1040[14:38:10] <gigaherz> I use it in one of my mods

L1041[14:38:14] <gigaherz> to enable Tesla api support

L1042[14:38:20] <gigaherz> if the mod is available

L1043[14:38:38] <gigaherz> I avoud loading that class unless the method is called, so that it's a soft dep only

L1044[14:38:39] <LatvianModder> so its basically better Loader.isModLoaded("id")

L1045[14:38:48] <gigaherz> well

L1046[14:38:53] <LexManos> For apis yes, kinda

L1047[14:38:58] <gigaherz> since a capability could be loaded through a shared package

L1048[14:38:59] <gigaherz> with @API

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L1050[14:39:11] <gigaherz> it's a nice way to not depend on one specific mod being loaded

L1051[14:39:25] <gigaherz> although, cna you do isModLoaded with an api id?

L1052[14:39:28] <LatvianModder> "put a @CapHolder yourself" What's CapHolder? No class found. Something new?

L1053[14:39:43] <LexManos> inject cap, whatever

L1054[14:39:58] <LatvianModder> oh, you meant that, ok

L1055[14:41:14] <LexManos> anwyas, guss i should get back to cleaning my room now that im done with this session of work.

L1056[14:41:52] <LexManos> {By cleaning I mean completely gutting and reorginizing cuz I want a change}

L1057[14:42:09] <gigaherz> refactoring your room ;P

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L1059[14:42:49] <SkySom> gigaherz, ModAPIManager.INSTANCE.hasAPI is what I've used for that.

L1060[14:43:33] <gigaherz> ah never heard of that one before

L1061[14:43:38] <LatvianModder> hmmm.. im.. hmm.. actually considering ContextKeys to work similar to Capabilities... maybe? we'll see

L1062[14:43:46] <gigaherz> what are contextkeys?

L1063[14:43:51] <LatvianModder> for PermissionAPI

L1064[14:44:05] <LatvianModder> ContextKey<T> KEY = new ContextKey<T>("id");

L1065[14:44:17] <gigaherz> <T>?

L1066[14:44:30] <LatvianModder> type, yeah

L1067[14:44:35] <gigaherz> I mean, what kind of T

L1068[14:44:37] <LatvianModder> any

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L1070[14:44:49] <gigaherz> what are they for XD

L1071[14:45:08] <LatvianModder> have fun https://github.com/MinecraftForge/MinecraftForge/pull/3155

L1072[14:45:30] <LatvianModder> im re-replacing String with ContextKey<T>

L1073[14:47:19] <gigaherz> I still have no idea what their purpose is XD

L1074[14:47:39] <LatvianModder> basically context is for permissions, a map that contains extra info

L1075[14:47:51] <LatvianModder> since its kinda hard to put that in a String like "break.block.stone"

L1076[14:47:59] <LatvianModder> you cant really put player/position/face in it etc

L1077[14:48:23] <gigaherz> oh I see

L1078[14:48:25] <LatvianModder> thats what events are Mostly for, but context is there to provide backup info, Just in case

L1079[14:48:40] <gigaherz> so the "context key" identifies the context in which a permission is being evaluated?

L1080[14:49:43] <LatvianModder> mm.. more like "break.stone", new Context().add(PLAYER, player).add(BLOCK_POS, blockPos);

L1081[14:49:46] <LatvianModder> that kind of stuff

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L1083[14:50:54] <gigaherz> I see

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L1100[15:29:30] <LexManos> https://github.com/CyclopsMC/EnergySynergy/blob/c90e581d30ec59a6f11fc1c49086fe1ae66c0c72/src/main/java/org/cyclops/energysynergy/modcompat/ic2/capability/forgeenergy/Ic2ForgeEnergyIntegration.java#L51

L1101[15:29:36] <LexManos> please tell me nobody uses this guys mod?

L1102[15:30:14] <LexManos> err nvm hes just being weird...

L1103[15:32:17] <LexManos> its fun digging around github for people weird implementations of things.

L1104[15:32:49] <LexManos> This guy has a @Optional on a Forge interface 0.0 : https://github.com/rreeggkk/NuclearSciences/blob/c7396a7cd94762dbb84b7216b3bd40d6c084bf84/src/main/java/rreeggkk/nuclearsciences/common/energy/AEnergyContainer.java

L1105[15:33:09] <primetoxinz> just incase you wanna use modloader lol

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L1107[15:33:55] <Ordinastie> or using older version of forge maybe ?

L1108[15:34:13] <LexManos> wouldnt strip the interface, @Optional doesnt have version support IIRC

L1109[15:34:18] <LexManos> if it does he isnt using it

L1110[15:35:08] <Ordinastie> does it check if it can find the interface or is it just the mod id ?

L1111[15:35:27] <LexManos> just mod id

L1112[15:36:23] <Ordinastie> then no excuse

L1113[15:36:52] <tterrag> http://pastebin.com/VbhSuyxD anyone know what causes this with jvisualvm ? http://pastebin.com/VbhSuyxD

L1114[15:37:00] <tterrag> it spent about 30 seconds loading the profiler then crashed like that

L1115[15:37:10] <tterrag> and yes, I have the profiler settings set

L1116[15:37:20] <tterrag> don't ask why I linked it twice

L1117[15:37:40] <LatvianModder> need to fill some javadocs, but ContextKeys so far http://ss.latmod.com/pc/2016-09-16_23.37.02.png

L1118[15:37:46] <Ordinastie> did you hotswap ?

L1119[15:38:01] <LatvianModder> I think there's no need for more for now

L1120[15:38:25] <tterrag> Ordinastie: no, not even in debug mode

L1121[15:38:29] <LexManos> This is a interesting take, he disabels Energy support in favor of Tesla if Tesla is installed. See options still exist! https://github.com/rreeggkk/NuclearSciences/commit/c50bbca00823bc6165480b577f11413a72f466de

L1122[15:38:47] ⇦ Parts: justJanne (~justJanne@kuschku.de) (So, if you can't find me, look to the western sky. As someone told me lately, everyone deserves a chance to fly.))

L1123[15:39:21] <PaleoCrafter> hah, they imported the scala Arrays stuff xD

L1124[15:39:37] <LatvianModder> i HATE when that happens

L1125[15:39:46] <LatvianModder> I try to uncheck all scala dependencies

L1126[15:40:26] <LexManos> someone needs to write a quick gradle script to remove scala deps...

L1127[15:40:31] <LexManos> would REALLY love that on my end to

L1128[15:41:37] <Ordinastie> you can just filter them in eclipse

L1129[15:41:54] <LexManos> Eww naughty naughty, this guy is adding the RFAPI and adding his Copyright header to each file: https://github.com/TheDragonTeam/ArmorPlus/commit/7aba88779e7b94df72e764c38a0b326e698f4784

L1130[15:42:11] <LatvianModder> gradlew idea --noscala

L1131[15:42:20] <LatvianModder> ideaModule too

L1132[15:42:50] <PaleoCrafter> y u do dis

L1133[15:42:54] <PaleoCrafter> y u no import build.gradle

L1134[15:43:15] <Ordinastie> it's sokratis ><

L1135[15:43:20] <LatvianModder> Did you just search GitHub for IEnergyStorage ?

L1136[15:43:31] <LexManos> maybe....

L1137[15:43:44] <LatvianModder> lol

L1138[15:44:01] <SkySom> I just poked sokratis about it.

L1139[15:44:04] <SkySom> The report was opps...

L1140[15:44:08] <Ordinastie> same guy that wrote that : https://github.com/sokratis12GR/MoreDimensions/blob/master/src/main/java/sokratis12GR/MoreDimensions/MoreDimensions.java#L137-L280

L1141[15:44:09] <SkySom> *Reply

L1142[15:44:24] <SkySom> Wut

L1143[15:44:26] <SkySom> Oh good lord

L1144[15:44:38] <LexManos> oh god my eyes...

L1145[15:44:50] <PaleoCrafter> http://thedragonteam.net/ look at that sponsors section xD

L1146[15:45:30] <LexManos> if you have to write the same thing >5 files

L1147[15:45:33] <LexManos> you need a loop

L1148[15:45:37] <LexManos> yimes*

L1149[15:45:39] <LexManos> times**

L1150[15:45:42] <LexManos> jesus

L1151[15:45:42] <raoulvdberge> My item is rendering with the wrong rotation with block/orientable, and with a custom mesh definition

L1152[15:45:43] <raoulvdberge> http://imgur.com/a/fRjGD

L1153[15:45:50] <raoulvdberge> First image does it correct

L1154[15:45:52] <raoulvdberge> Second not

L1155[15:46:08] <raoulvdberge> Only difference with the second one is that I'm using a custom model mesh thingy

L1156[15:46:45] <PaleoCrafter> second one looks more correct to me, that's how the furnace is oriented as well :P

L1157[15:46:58] <raoulvdberge> Really o.o?

L1158[15:47:00] <tterrag> lex: some would say >1 time

L1159[15:47:14] <LexManos> I like how a lot of things are just copy/pasting EnergyStorage, but not actually just, using it.

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L1161[15:47:15] <PaleoCrafter> yep, the front is facing you, in a way

L1162[15:47:32] <raoulvdberge> So I've been doing it wrong all the time :O

L1163[15:48:05] <SkySom> At least it isn't as bad as those people who end sitll have most of the forge shit in their repos lol

L1164[15:48:39] <plathrop> Gotta optimize away dem loops! /troll

L1165[15:48:53] <Ordinastie> lex, when you said remove scala dep with gradle, is it to not see them in eclipse when you code ?

L1166[15:48:55] <LexManos> optimizing away loops IS important

L1167[15:49:02] <PaleoCrafter> plz, plathrop, that's the JIT's job :P

L1168[15:49:03] <LexManos> IF you're doing something thats processor intensive and often

L1169[15:49:06] <LexManos> like hashing functions

L1170[15:49:09] <LexManos> BUT this is not

L1171[15:49:12] <PaleoCrafter> search for any Vanilla class on GitHub, SkySom, have fun :P

L1172[15:49:18] <plathrop> woo sucessful troll is successful

L1173[15:49:18] <SkySom> I know...

L1174[15:49:21] <plathrop> :-P

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L1176[15:50:43] <LexManos> https://github.com/MinecraftModDevelopment/Advantage-Core/blob/498bce0139271d56dcb92388dcd6de80ab854d63/src/main/java/mmd/advantagecore/tile/TileConverterForgeInput.java#L76

L1177[15:50:58] <LexManos> Someone smack this kid for me? DO NOT DO EXPENSIVE SHIT in your getCaps function.

L1178[15:51:54] <Xilef11> I have an item that's supposed to have different models based on meta, but I can't figure out why it doesn't work (I have other similar items that work) https://gist.github.com/Xilef11/bccfe9044610fc15f53399b8c8346b1d

L1179[15:52:03] <LexManos> Its ment to be fast, grabbing other TEs from the world, and instanceofs are not fast.

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L1182[15:52:44] <PaleoCrafter> lol, all those *Metals projects in that organisation

L1183[15:53:38] <raoulvdberge> PaleoCrafter: AHA! "transform": "forge:default-block" was causing non-vanilla behavior

L1184[15:54:02] <PaleoCrafter> welp, time to smack fry, I guess xD

L1185[15:54:12] <raoulvdberge> Removing it doesn't seem the cause trouble though

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L1188[15:55:02] <PaleoCrafter> yeah, the transforms get inherited since 1.9/1.10

L1189[16:02:22] <illy> Paleo do they have a Heavy Metal mod that has a commit message that says "added guitar riff"

L1190[16:02:46] <PaleoCrafter> unfortunately not xD

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L1192[16:03:38] <illy> damn it

L1193[16:04:37] <tterrag> Ordinastie: https://java.net/jira/browse/VISUALVM-601

L1194[16:04:38] <tterrag> :C

L1195[16:04:55] <tterrag> tl;dr crashes on lambdas randomly due to a jdk bug

L1196[16:05:03] <tterrag> fixed by visualvm...not released

L1197[16:06:08] <PaleoCrafter> welp http://s.mineformers.de/2016-09-16_23-05-24.mp4

L1198[16:12:55] <howtonotwin> Do you have an enderdragon farm, Mr. 991 Levels? :P

L1199[16:13:39] <Ordinastie> why would you need a farm when you have code? :p

L1200[16:13:39] <PaleoCrafter> when debugging enchanting, it proved helpful to have a certain amount of levels handy :P

L1201[16:14:10] <PaleoCrafter> /xp 1000L <tab> is a great thing

L1202[16:14:55] <howtonotwin> I hold the opinion that it should be 1337 levels at all times.

L1203[16:15:01] <PaleoCrafter> lol

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L1217[16:32:55] <Xilef11> I have an item that's supposed to have different models based on meta, but I can't figure out why it doesn't work (I have other similar items that work) https://gist.github.com/Xilef11/bccfe9044610fc15f53399b8c8346b1d

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L1225[16:54:04] <howtonotwin> Xilef11: you have to setHasSubtype(true) I think

L1226[16:54:10] <howtonotwin> *Subtypes

L1227[16:55:08] <howtonotwin> and wtf is with getMetadata(stack) = super.getMetadata(stack)

L1228[16:55:32] <howtonotwin> you want to override getMetadata(int)

L1229[16:55:57] <Xilef11> I just forgot to delete it, I was testing stuff

L1230[16:56:08] <Xilef11> and I do setHasSubtypes in the constructor

L1231[16:56:32] <howtonotwin> You need getMetadata(int)

L1232[16:56:52] <howtonotwin> the stack one gets a number, any number, from an ItemStack

L1233[16:57:04] <howtonotwin> the int one takes that number and returns the meta value

L1234[16:57:15] <howtonotwin> which is roundabout and confusing but meh

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L1253[18:02:46] <Neon> Do you know a mod that renders the currently held map on screen permanently so that it stays visible even while boating?

L1254[18:04:23] <howtonotwin> seems like something to send to Vaz for Quark

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L1277[19:55:34] <howtonotwin> TIL `class Test { public Test zoinks(Test this) { return this; } }` is valid java

L1278[19:58:35] <tterrag> no it's not

L1279[19:58:38] <tterrag> test is not a valid param name

L1280[19:58:42] <tterrag> erm... 'this'

L1281[19:59:05] <howtonotwin> it is valid in 1.8 and above

L1282[19:59:08] <TehNut> ^

L1283[19:59:20] <howtonotwin> and inner class constructors do something similar

L1284[19:59:33] <tterrag> no

L1285[19:59:36] <tterrag> you cannot name a param 'this'

L1286[19:59:37] <Unh0ly_Tigg> Does anyone know if there is a forgegradle task that will deobf a local jar?

L1287[19:59:52] <howtonotwin> class Test { class In { public In(Test Test.this) { } } }

L1288[19:59:56] <howtonotwin> try it

L1289[20:00:24] <Unh0ly_Tigg> tterrag, I just tried it, eclipse doesn't yell at me.

L1290[20:01:02] <TehNut> Idea yells at me to switch to 8 as my lang level

L1291[20:01:28] <TehNut> http://tehnut.info/share/QZLPlkxxpZ.png

L1292[20:01:42] <howtonotwin> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se8/html/jls-8.html#jls-8.4.1-220

L1293[20:01:58] <howtonotwin> In an instance method, the type of the receiver parameter must be the class or interface in which the method is declared, and the name of the receiver parameter must be this; otherwise, a compile-time error occurs.

L1294[20:02:04] <howtonotwin> In an inner class's constructor, the type of the receiver parameter must be the class or interface which is the immediately enclosing type declaration of the inner class, and the name of the receiver parameter must be Identifier . this where Identifier is the simple name of the class or interface which is the immediately enclosing type declaration of the inner class; otherwise, a compile-time error

L1295[20:02:04] <howtonotwin> occurs.

L1296[20:03:07] <jakimfett> Is there a rules list for this channel?

L1297[20:04:09] <tterrag> oh it's just sugar for type annotations

L1298[20:04:15] <tterrag> it doesn't compile to anything

L1299[20:04:24] <tterrag> weird addition, but I guess it makes sense

L1300[20:06:58] <howtonotwin> The way I see it it DOES compile to something and leaving it out causes it to be added anyway. :P

L1301[20:07:11] <jakimfett> Oi, LexManos/LexMobile, I'm working on a piece on toxicity in the MinecraftForge modding community...is there any chance I could ask you some questions?

L1302[20:07:32] <howtonotwin> DO NOT PING LEX!

L1303[20:07:35] <TehNut> I feel like you asked for the rules so you could break them...

L1304[20:08:45] <jakimfett> why is pinging lex bad?

L1305[20:09:02] <TehNut> It's one of the 3-ish rules in here

L1306[20:09:17] <TehNut> Normally it's in the topic, but it's currently advertising the contest

L1307[20:09:21] <howtonotwin> There's a link to the rules in the topic mesg

L1308[20:09:30] <TehNut> Oh, I didn't see that link

L1309[20:09:47] <jakimfett> I just wanted to ask him a couple of questions...and /rules and /motd didn't show anything...sorry...

L1310[20:12:04] <LexManos> Just ask the damn questions

L1311[20:12:21] <LexManos> and yes the MOTD does state the rules.

L1312[20:12:33] <Disconsented> /topic

L1313[20:12:54] <jakimfett> oh...I was using /motd, sorry

L1314[20:13:01] <jakimfett> my bad

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L1318[20:31:38] <LexManos> ...

L1319[20:34:34] <jakimfett> sorry about the delay, trying to find the least offensive way to say some stuff

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L1324[20:47:04] <Unh0ly_Tigg> I just now realized where I've seen the current forge logo (what's used for the loading animation): http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Forge

L1325[20:47:13] <IoP> like Forge devs sucks?

L1326[20:47:32] <LexManos> Yes, hence why we are having a new art contest

L1327[20:47:34] <IoP> Unh0ly_Tigg: yup. really similar. it was discussed ~week ago

L1328[20:47:44] <Unh0ly_Tigg> oh, ok.

L1329[20:47:44] <LexManos> IoP, what...

L1330[20:48:22] <Unh0ly_Tigg> though, I've never seen the halo forge logo animated (in the context of a halo game)

L1331[20:48:26] <IoP> btw which was first? mc forge logo or halo logo?

L1332[20:48:31] <Unh0ly_Tigg> halo

L1333[20:48:41] <Unh0ly_Tigg> it was used in halo 3 iirc

L1334[20:48:50] <Unh0ly_Tigg> which is pre minecraft itself

L1335[20:48:54] <LexManos> No documentation of either, best to just assume Halo and get new shit.

L1336[20:56:29] <LexManos> Coming on an hour now, after he pinged me wanting to ask questions and still no questions. This is why I don't like getting pinged.

L1337[20:56:41] <jakimfett> http://pastebin.com/raw/wQutuQdu <-- Questions for Lex

L1338[20:56:54] <LexManos> Speak of the devil

L1339[20:57:22] <jakimfett> huh. Last question isn't showing up on the raw link. Weird.

L1340[20:57:23] <jakimfett> http://pastebin.com/wQutuQdu

L1341[20:57:31] <LexManos> Alright lets do this off the cuff.

L1342[20:57:47] <jakimfett> is the non-raw link. Apologies for the potential pastebin ad nastiness

L1343[21:00:20] <LexManos> 1) Yes, I know I have some of the responsibility for the state of the modded community. I lead the largest project userbase wise out there and with that comes people who listen to me be it either for good or bad. In most cases its good because I do help people and listen to people. But I am also a person, not a school, not a personal tutor, not a personal google. I expect people to be able to solve their own issues. And sadly we are in a world

L1344[21:00:20] <LexManos> where the average modder is to lazy to do that. Which leads them to get on to the annoying me side and I have no issue telling people to fuck off if they annoy me.

L1345[21:01:50] <LexManos> 2) We have fourms, the wiki which is now moving to a RTD. I've also spent a lot of time working with modders and document writers to make sure what they are putting out is atleast somewhat accurate. As well as all the work ive done on Forge itself and the development environment making it a thousand times easier now to get in then it was in the past.

L1346[21:03:24] <jakimfett> In regards to the last part of your answer to #1:

L1347[21:03:24] <jakimfett> Have you considered that sometimes, people can annoy you, but still only be guilty of having a difference of opinion, or that perhaps despite their best efforts they don't know which portion of the information they've found is accurate, and are coming to you (as the source of MinecraftForge information) for clarification?

L1348[21:04:54] <LexManos> 3) If you come to ME asking for something then I expect at least a level of competance, and for you to show that you've at least tried to solve things for yourself. When it comes to profanity, I use it all the time just because thats how I speak and if anyone is bothered by it I don't give a shit. They are words get over them. However, you reference twitter and forums, what you and most poeople usually fail to notice is that that is never my

L1349[21:04:54] <LexManos> first response. My first response usually is a answer, or hint to the right direction. Its when the idiots keep asking me the same questions over and over that I get pissed off and yell at them. Again I am not a personal google, I am not a personal tutor. I'm not nearly paid enough for that.

L1350[21:05:58] <LexManos> 1b) I can see that, I just don't care because in reality people dont come to get information they dome to annoy me. If they came for information they would leave after I told them. Instead of asking and arguing and in most cases insinuating that im an idiot.

L1351[21:06:00] <IoP> <3

L1352[21:06:15] <IoP> Not sarcasm.

L1353[21:07:27] <jakimfett> (I spent a couple of days looking at and cross checking answers on the forums, btw...I'm very aware of the range of things that your first responses to questions can look like)

L1354[21:08:29] <LexManos> 4) Its rather simple. If i've already explained things to people more then 4 times within a 12 hour period then I let my inner asshole take over. If i know for a fact that the documentation is out there and easily accesible {Like I said I work with a lot of the people writing these things} if they put forth a modicum of effort then I get annoyed faster.

L1355[21:09:01] <LexManos> There is a difference between first post in a thread, first post on twitter, first post on a subject.

L1356[21:09:19] <jakimfett> I know. Hence the cross referencing.

L1357[21:09:57] <LexManos> And on the forums, its often quite easier to just point then to the EAQ or tell them to stop doing something stupid and lock the thread then it is to babysit them and listen to them whine and ask the same questions over and over.

L1358[21:10:12] <LexManos> There is a reason I tend to stay away from parts of my own forum.

L1359[21:11:48] <jakimfett> Are you aware that your harsh words can (and frequently do) set a damaging/toxic precedent for other people in the community?

L1360[21:13:01] <IoP> even asking a log or stating that users' machine can not handle MC is insulting for some users

L1361[21:13:29] <LexManos> Yes, but I am not beholden to others in the way I act. And people are their own people. They can act however they want.

L1362[21:14:44] <jakimfett> So, despite knowing that your words and actions are potentially damaging and alienating people in the community, you don't feel like it's your responsibility to try to avoid those sorts of damaging interactions?

L1363[21:15:45] <jakimfett> @IoP yeah, I've worked in retail, I'm familiar with how people can get "insulted" by the silliest of things...eg needing to check their ID before letting them walk off with a computer system that they had in for repair.

L1364[21:15:55] <LexManos> I can understand the effects, I simply will not change my actions to suit the sensibilities of others.

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L1366[21:16:07] <LexManos> What you often forget is that I dont go out and seek other people.

L1367[21:16:21] <tterrag> but as you said, you feel responsible for the community

L1368[21:16:38] <LexManos> On the contrary I sit in the background and let 90% of the bullshit float by, only when people specifically seek me out personally is there an issue.

L1369[21:16:39] <jakimfett> I'm more referring to people who do their research, try their best to come up with a solution, and still come up short...and get yelled at when they ask for help, IoP

L1370[21:16:59] <LexManos> I've yet to see that happen.

L1371[21:17:31] <jakimfett> Mind if I link you to an example that I found? I'd be curious about your take on it...

L1372[21:17:39] <LexManos> Sure

L1373[21:18:02] <jakimfett> http://www.minecraftforge.net/forum/index.php?topic=100.msg521#msg521

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L1375[21:18:57] <LexManos> I told him the answer, his next post verified that it worked.

L1376[21:18:59] <luacs1998> holy crap reika

L1377[21:19:02] <LexManos> And then he goes on to insult me.

L1378[21:19:24] <luacs1998> https://www.reddit.com/r/feedthebeast/comments/531trm/why_i_am_opposed_to_forge_energy/d7q0rr8

L1379[21:19:32] *** Santa|AFK is now known as SatanicSanta

L1380[21:19:56] <jakimfett> Judging from the comments, you called him, and I quote, "a little twat"...my understanding is that you insulted him in your first posted response.

L1381[21:20:14] <jakimfett> note that I'm not trying to accuse you, I'm trying to understand you

L1382[21:20:40] <luacs1998> jakimfett, i wouldn't take that as accurate haha

L1383[21:20:45] <luacs1998> sorry to inerrupt

L1384[21:20:46] <jakimfett> I don't understand why the response to "I have been hesitant to come here because I hate getting flamed when I need help" is "you're a little twat"

L1385[21:21:16] *** AbrarSyed is now known as Abrar|gone

L1386[21:21:40] <kenzierocks> do note that the OP was edited /after/ that comment exchange: you don't know what the OP originally contained

L1387[21:21:41] <LexManos> As this was literally 4 years ago I dont know the context, so meh. Point I may of insulted him its a gut reaction when people are being stupid. Or if ive dealt with them outside of the post. If it does make it into the submited post I usually edit it out within like 60 seconds.

L1388[21:21:58] <jakimfett> Gotcha.

L1389[21:22:15] <jakimfett> @luacs1998 I don't quite understand your statement, can you clarify?

L1390[21:22:35] <luacs1998> as lex said, it was literally 4 years ago, i daresay he's actually mellowed somewhat since

L1391[21:23:34] <jakimfett> eh, I don't have the data to support or deny that, so I won't hazard a guess.

L1392[21:23:50] <LexManos> Right I *might* understand the process this went through.

L1393[21:24:10] <LexManos> His original post, first like insults us/our community. I may of been responding to that.

L1394[21:24:23] <LexManos> And like I said, censored myself shortly after posting

L1395[21:24:39] <primetoxinz> holy shit 1.2.5 was 4 years ago, feels so much closer

L1396[21:24:47] <LexManos> No it does u.u

L1397[21:26:03] <howtonotwin> "I remember when we wrote code with WIRES! We didn't have these new-fangled transy-whatsits!" - Old Man Prime

L1398[21:26:59] <primetoxinz> um

L1399[21:27:19] <howtonotwin> funnier if you replace wires with needle and thread, as that is semi-accurate to the computers on the Apollo 11 mission

L1400[21:27:37] <jakimfett> Thank you for your time, Lex. I have additional questions, but none of them are well formed at the moment. Appreciate your candid responses.

L1401[21:27:57] <Unh0ly_Tigg> I'll say this: I feel much more comfortable asking lex something now, than I did, say 1-2 years ago...

L1402[21:29:02] <luacs1998> Unh0ly_Tigg, same here

L1403[21:29:47] <jakimfett> tbh, I've had a burning curiosity about how his brain works ever since meeting him at PAX

L1404[21:29:55] <Unh0ly_Tigg> granted, I'm shocked that it's only been ~2 years since I *started* modding.

L1405[21:30:06] <Unh0ly_Tigg> feels like longer...

L1406[21:30:13] <luacs1998> Unh0ly_Tigg, i go even further back than that haha

L1407[21:30:21] <Unh0ly_Tigg> my first mod code was in 1.5...

L1408[21:30:41] <Unh0ly_Tigg> granted, I've had a minecraft account since beta 1.6...

L1409[21:30:42] <luacs1998> #minecraftforge in 2012, when FML was just getting off the ground, jenkins still hosted off Lex's PC and yeah

L1410[21:31:28] <LexManos> that was a pain y.y

L1411[21:31:40] <LexManos> that was also back when I was living in the crack house!

L1412[21:31:41] <LexManos> Whee!

L1413[21:31:45] <Unh0ly_Tigg> so, apparently, forge 7.7.0.568 for minecraft 1.5 is when javadoc downloads were added...

L1414[21:32:31] <illy> I made my first attempt with 1.3 then gave up and decided to learn java.. then came back

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L1416[21:33:54] <Unh0ly_Tigg> from the oldest changelog available via the files server: "Added mod_MinecraftForge for simpler logging of minecraft version in crash reports" wow that's old.

L1417[21:34:55] <LexManos> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0goY8bp59wc

L1418[21:35:27] <Unh0ly_Tigg> wait

L1419[21:35:35] <Unh0ly_Tigg> my 2 years dating if off...

L1420[21:35:53] <luacs1998> lol

L1421[21:35:59] <Unh0ly_Tigg> is*

L1422[21:36:05] <luacs1998> there was a while before jenkins

L1423[21:36:13] <Zidane> You know, reading the backlog...if it wasn't for the tools that Forge as a team has made then my entire project would have never existed

L1424[21:36:18] <Unh0ly_Tigg> all the dates from the older forge versions are from the same timeframe...

L1425[21:36:20] <Zidane> So I am quite grateful to Forge for this

L1426[21:36:22] <luacs1998> nobody ever talks about the forge builds for beta 1.8, which was when i first started mc

L1427[21:36:24] <luacs1998> haha

L1428[21:37:10] <tterrag> interesting how java/patch files vye for first place all the way through

L1429[21:37:30] <tterrag> eh java runs away with it towards the middle :P

L1430[21:37:33] <Unh0ly_Tigg> ok, so, it's been closer to ~3.5 years, not ~2 years since I started modding...

L1431[21:37:37] <LexManos> well ya its a java project

L1432[21:37:38] <Zidane> Lex, don't forget your plastic hammer next weekend.

L1433[21:37:45] <LexManos> I dont have one!

L1434[21:37:47] <LexManos> I need one!

L1435[21:37:52] <Zidane> Hummmm

L1436[21:37:54] <tterrag> please get one

L1437[21:38:01] <tterrag> I need to banned IRL

L1438[21:38:05] <tterrag> :^)

L1439[21:38:10] <Unh0ly_Tigg> next weekend?

L1440[21:38:16] <kenzierocks> minecon?

L1441[21:38:19] <Unh0ly_Tigg> OH SHIT

L1442[21:38:23] <Zidane> Anyone else here going to be at Minecon?

L1443[21:38:27] <tterrag> o/

L1444[21:38:27] <kenzierocks> :P

L1445[21:38:28] <kenzierocks> not me

L1446[21:38:28] <Unh0ly_Tigg> I completely forgot about it...

L1447[21:38:34] <LexManos> I thought of getting the wow crate for blizcon but I didnt want to spend like $400 just for a hammer

L1448[21:38:36] * howtonotwin is impressed by UT

L1449[21:38:39] <kenzierocks> it's really close to me but 2 expensive :(

L1450[21:38:45] <Unh0ly_Tigg> I can't afford to go to any cons...

L1451[21:38:56] <luacs1998> same here

L1452[21:39:03] <luacs1998> it'll cost me aboout 2k just to get there

L1453[21:39:22] <TehNut> If I could have gotten time off work, I could have gone

L1454[21:39:36] <TehNut> I'm like 6 hours away or something

L1455[21:39:46] <Zidane> Well for those who can, be sure to come checkout the Sponge booth...would love to see any and all devs there to hang out and chat.

L1456[21:39:49] * howtonotwin shares 500 losercoins with UT and luacs, which are on an alternate, private bitcoin blockchain (worth nothing).

L1457[21:39:50] <Unh0ly_Tigg> I wish I could go to minecon this year... I grew up in the irvine/mission viejo area.

L1458[21:39:56] * luacs1998 hopes minecon comes to asia someday

L1459[21:40:04] <howtonotwin> losercoins because of my name not because of you

L1460[21:40:16] <howtonotwin> that could be taken the wrong way far too easily :P

L1461[21:40:31] <Unh0ly_Tigg> lol

L1462[21:40:35] <kenzierocks> i live in santa barbara

L1463[21:40:37] <tterrag> lex: I found this one https://amzn.com/B00XMMAQ0C

L1464[21:40:40] <kenzierocks> i'm literall like 2 hrs away

L1465[21:40:41] <tterrag> seems decent for a one off joke :p

L1466[21:40:54] <tterrag> of course not literally a ban hammer...sharpie can fix that

L1467[21:41:17] <howtonotwin> *Construction paper and glitter glue

L1468[21:41:58] <howtonotwin> "If you're gonna die, die with glittery style!"

L1469[21:41:59] <tterrag> are there any group chats for people going?

L1470[21:42:04] <tterrag> to organize things and whatnot?

L1471[21:43:02] <Zidane> Lex this is perfect: https://www.amazon.com/Toy-Squeaky-Circus-Carnival-Assorted/dp/B00362RW3M/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1474080149&sr=8-5&keywords=Inflatable+Hammer

L1472[21:43:07] <Zidane> It even squeaks

L1473[21:44:00] <illy> We shall dub it the Forge gavel!

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L1475[21:44:31] <Unh0ly_Tigg> could anyone spot me like $380? ;P /s

L1476[21:46:15] <howtonotwin> ofc

L1477[21:46:16] <howtonotwin> /give Unh0ly_Tigg usa:dollar 380

L1478[21:46:39] <kenzierocks> /give Unh0ly_Tigg currency:usd 380

L1479[21:46:39] *** Keridos|away is now known as Keridos

L1480[21:46:41] <Unh0ly_Tigg> great, now I can get this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004QWZ5M6/ /s

L1481[21:47:17] <howtonotwin> methinks you'd enjoy Naiten's mod

L1482[21:47:32] <Unh0ly_Tigg> is it traincraft?

L1483[21:47:47] * illy gives Unh0ly_Tigg $3.50

L1484[21:49:06] <howtonotwin> I think it's "Rails of War", but he's currently redoing it from scratch I think

L1485[21:49:36] <Unh0ly_Tigg> too hd for my tastes.

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L1505[23:07:57] <VoxelV> Hello. I need some help understanding why my block isn't getting into the game. There's no crash, no error, it's just not in the creative tab I've designated for it.

L1506[23:09:01] <VoxelV> or, a list of things that must happen to a regular old Block before it will be recognized in the game would be helpful.

L1507[23:09:39] <VoxelV> I've certainly googled around and tried at least 3 different methods, but none of them seem to work.

L1508[23:10:42] <VoxelV> I've also attempted reading other mods' code, but most that I've seen have some advanced framework built around registering their blocks and items. I'm just looking for the plain simple way to do it so that I can actually learn something.

L1509[23:12:19] <kenzierocks> have you setCreativeTab?

L1510[23:12:28] <kenzierocks> did you call GameRegistry.register(block)?

L1511[23:12:46] <howtonotwin> https://mcforge.readthedocs.io/en/latest/blocks/blocks/

L1512[23:13:09] <howtonotwin> make sure you read all of it

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L1514[23:14:08] <howtonotwin> the bare minimum to make a block exist is to have an instance of it, give it a material and a registry name, and then register it

L1515[23:14:12] <VoxelV> wow, that's been updated since the last time I saw it. Before it wasn't helpful for how new I was to modding. I'll certainly give that a shot.

L1516[23:14:24] <howtonotwin> if you want it properly named you need an unloc name

L1517[23:14:36] <howtonotwin> if you want it to be an item you also need an itemblock

L1518[23:14:43] <VoxelV> I did setCreativeTab, I also did GameRegistry.register.

L1519[23:14:54] <howtonotwin> did you add an itemblock?

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L1521[23:15:09] <VoxelV> I believe so yes

L1522[23:15:15] <VoxelV> and registered it

L1523[23:15:37] <howtonotwin> can you show that line?

L1524[23:17:06] <VoxelV> one minute, I may have found the issue while looking for that

L1525[23:17:51] <howtonotwin> make sure you read the big green note on that page too

L1526[23:18:00] <howtonotwin> that would be most relevant

L1527[23:19:12] <VoxelV> wow, that's the most useful thing I've yet seen. Thanks.

L1528[23:19:24] <VoxelV> I'll poke around a bit and get back in a while.

L1529[23:19:28] <howtonotwin> np and good luck

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L1532[23:36:18] <VoxelV> howtonotwin, in fact, I could not find the place where I was calling GameRegistry.register for the ItemBlock. I misread the tutorial I was following and accidentally omitted that line.

L1533[23:36:48] <VoxelV> Now it works as expected! Thanks! :D

L1534[23:37:25] <Tazz> ugh I think Im just going to use the linear scan RA code that I have and spare myself the brainhurt of having to learn a new algo for it XD

L1535[23:38:34] <howtonotwin> register alloc?

L1536[23:38:39] <Tazz> yeah

L1537[23:38:57] <howtonotwin> I am googling half the things you say about Eschelle at this point :P

L1538[23:38:57] <Tazz> I like what LLVM has

L1539[23:38:58] <Tazz> but like

L1540[23:39:10] <Tazz> lots of code and research went into that

L1541[23:39:15] <Tazz> and its designed to fit LLVM

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L1543[23:39:40] <Tazz> I could do graph colouring

L1544[23:39:42] <Tazz> but like no

L1545[23:39:59] <Tazz> its too simple and uneffective for what Im trying to achieve XD

L1546[23:40:13] <Tazz> howtonotwin, actually Eschelle is on hold atm

L1547[23:40:29] *** TTFTCUTS is now known as TTFT|Away

L1548[23:40:31] <Tazz> Im actually doing this for a different project that will eventually become the codebase for Eschelle in a way

L1549[23:41:23] <howtonotwin> And here I am, can't figure out MikeOS or even Rustboot xD

L1550[23:41:36] <howtonotwin> though ok OS != whatever you're doing

L1551[23:41:57] <Tazz> XD

L1552[23:42:13] <howtonotwin> do i need to get out the sed again?

L1553[23:42:26] <Tazz> howtonotwin, https://github.com/s0cks/Mun if your ever interested in learning something about it :P

L1554[23:42:35] <Tazz> I almost always open source my stuff

L1555[23:43:33] <VoxelV> howtonotwin, I'm not seeing a similar resource (as the readthedocs you mentioned) on the sidebar having to do with TileEntities. Would you have a recommendation of how to proceed to learn about them?

L1556[23:43:47] <howtonotwin> http://modwiki.temporal-reality.com/mw/index.php/Main_Page

L1557[23:43:57] <howtonotwin> Those tutorials are actual kept up to date

L1558[23:43:58] <Tazz> I also totally need to fix that

L1559[23:43:59] <Tazz> XD

L1560[23:44:06] <Tazz> there is no Obj-C code in that repository XD

L1561[23:44:14] <VoxelV> much appreciated :D

L1562[23:44:15] <Tazz> idk why linguist is tagging it as obj-x

L1563[23:44:17] <Tazz> obj-c*

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