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L1[00:00:09] <darsie> I flew/landed a glider
on Duna.
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L19[05:42:00] <Eddi|zuHause> i was talking
about a rocket, though.
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L25[06:34:40] <Eddi|zuHause> if i make the
winglets at the end of the rocket any bigger, this would actually
be a plane
L26[06:35:46] <XXCoder> honestly flipping
sounds like top heavy
L29[06:42:57] <Eddi|zuHause> which is when
it becomes unstable, i think
L30[06:42:58] <Althego> hehe a bit
fat
L31[06:43:19] <Eddi|zuHause> that's because
the rover wheels don't fold in
L32[06:43:20] <XXCoder> interesting
L33[06:43:39] <XXCoder> dont latest allow
kerbals assembly skills?
L34[06:44:17] <Eddi|zuHause> engineers,
yes. but they don't have symmetry, which is kinda necessary with
wheels
L35[06:44:58] <XXCoder> hmm I wonder if can
just have 2 sides wheel assembles to attach
L36[06:50:08] <Eddi|zuHause> i should maybe
look into these actuators and hinges. i've been shying away from
those so far
L38[07:48:53] <XXCoder> nice
L39[07:49:05] <Eddi|zuHause> (i already
corrected the winglet size to adjust CoL)
L40[07:49:39] <Eddi|zuHause> i've no clue
how the wheels now fold out...
L41[07:50:12] <XXCoder> you should be able
to right click it and set state
L42[07:50:15] <XXCoder> so can see where it
goes
L43[07:56:52] <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i already
did that, now trying to figure out the KAK-1000 interface
L44[07:56:55] <Eddi|zuHause> KAL
L45[07:58:46] <XXCoder> cool :)
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L48[08:24:26] <Eddi|zuHause> the hinges are
somewhat fragile when testing on the launchpad
L49[08:35:46] <Althego> and always
L50[08:36:03] <Althego> i think they have a
lock and then they are mostly ok
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L52[08:37:47] <Eddi|zuHause> the lock seems
to have problems engaging
L53[08:43:00] <Eddi|zuHause> i'm always
getting the error "lock cannot engage, part is moving"
even though it's already at 90°
L54[08:48:09] <Althego> probably something
is slightly shaking in the simulation
L55[08:48:28] <Althego> can you lock it in
time warp?
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L57[08:54:44] <Eddi|zuHause> i can lock it
sometimes. i can lock it sometimes if i reduce the angle to 89° or
88°
L58[08:54:48] <Eddi|zuHause> but nothing
reliable
L59[09:10:37] <Eddi|zuHause> what this
rover cannot do is upright itself when it flipped over
L60[09:12:09] <Althego> you can do that
with severl things
L61[09:12:12] <Althego> even with a
hinge
L62[09:12:17] <Althego> it opens and flips
it over
L63[09:14:02] <Pinkbeast>
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/games/ksp/toeeloo-5-mkviii.png
- the anti-roll arm makes it _hard_ to roll, but the side arms
rotate and can be used to get the rover unflipped if it does
happen.
L64[09:14:21] <Eddi|zuHause> i'll not worry
about that for now
L65[09:14:56] <Pinkbeast> (it was important
to turn off the brakes on the landing gear on the anti-roll
arm)
L66[09:15:33] <Althego> although i think i
add airplane wheels tilted on the side
L67[09:16:27] <Althego> and gear opening
can keep the rover from tilting, or even upright it
L68[09:17:01] <Eddi|zuHause> that's all
very theoretical problems if i can't get it launched
L69[09:17:16] <Althego> hehe
L70[09:18:35] <Eddi|zuHause> i'll try to
launch this narrower rocket now. and not worry about the hinge
locks
L71[09:21:14] <Eddi|zuHause> still flipped
over, but much later now...
L72[09:29:05] <Eddi|zuHause> dunno what i
can do there... bigger control surfaces, but higher up?
L73[09:29:18] <Eddi|zuHause> so they have
more impact when the CoM moves further away?
L74[09:32:26] <Pinkbeast> Lower down in
atmosphere
L75[09:32:40] <Pinkbeast> A rocket wants to
be heavy at the front and draggy at the back
L76[09:33:12] <Pinkbeast> (inasmuch as it
has to be heavy or draggy at all)
L77[09:33:23] <Pinkbeast> Show us a
picture?
L79[09:34:15] <Pinkbeast> Ideally of the
whole rocket
L81[09:34:43] <Pinkbeast> (but er wtf is
that asymmetrical booster?)
L82[09:35:16] <Eddi|zuHause> that's two LF
tanks and two SF boosters
L83[09:35:59] <Eddi|zuHause> the two
earlier pictures is CoM at launch and with booster stage
depleted
L84[09:36:15] <Pinkbeast> What's in the
rest of the huge fairing?
L85[09:36:38] <Eddi|zuHause> there's a
habitat for my mun base, the rover, and a sample return
rocket
L86[09:38:03] <Pinkbeast> I've got to go
outside but what's it look like when it flips?
L87[09:38:41] <Eddi|zuHause> what do you
mean?
L88[09:38:56] <Eddi|zuHause> near when the
booster stage is depleted, i lose control, and then it breaks
apart
L89[09:39:51] <Mat2ch> You should use a
longer first stage. Then you will be higher up in the atmosphere,
when you stage
L90[09:42:13] <Eddi|zuHause> this all
happens before the first staging would occur
L91[09:46:02] <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really
understand the effects of fairing shape on CoL
L92[09:46:25] <Eddi|zuHause> do i want it
pointier? blunter?
L93[09:46:44] <Mat2ch> You can look at the
changes by enabling CoL and then tilting the rocket in the
VAB
L94[09:47:27] <Mat2ch> the editor assumes
that the rocket is flying up all the time (in the SPH it's from the
left)
L95[09:49:27] <Eddi|zuHause> that's a thing
i didn't know
L96[09:50:37] <Eddi|zuHause> so the CoL is
widely off-center then
L97[09:53:18] <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, my
idea with the asymmetric boosters was, while the two SF boosters do
their job, the main engine draws from the added LF tanks on the
side. they both take roughly the same time to deplete, and then
staging happens, with the center tank being still mostly full
L98[09:59:54] <Eddi|zuHause> also, which
winglet should i use?
L99[10:01:23] <Eddi|zuHause> i now use a
way oversized AV-R8
L100[10:03:14] <Eddi|zuHause> that didn't
help at all
L101[10:04:49] <Eddi|zuHause> should i
maybe try just going steeper, instead of turning?
L102[10:04:50] <Althego> i would just swap
to 4 or 6 solid boosters and go up until 50 km
L103[10:04:58] <Althego> there shouldnt be
a flip then
L104[10:05:10] <Mat2ch> I'd really go with
a long first stage, maybe boosters to increase the TWR to 1.25 at
launch
L105[10:05:40] <Mat2ch> then do a launch
where you stay prograde all the time and only stage above 20-25
km
L106[10:06:13] <Mat2ch> make only very
soft turns on your gravity turn
L107[10:10:01] <darsie> Eddi|zuHause: If
your rocket flips during ascent due to atmospheric drag you can use
fins at the bottom to stabilize it.
L108[10:10:51] <darsie> Ascent is most
efficient if you fly shallow, but that conflicts with atmospheric
drag. There's a sweet spot.
L109[10:11:30] <darsie> If your rocket has
drag issues you may have to fly up steeper, or redesign the
rocket.
L110[10:11:52] <darsie> Also, don't use a
fairing as root part. It may cause high drag.
L111[10:12:07] <darsie> It's a bug.
L112[10:15:52] <Eddi|zuHause> no, the root
part is the rover's lander can.
L113[10:16:21] <Eddi|zuHause> i
successfully reached orbit by keeping straight
L114[10:16:34] <Eddi|zuHause> but i feel
like i used too much fuel of my later stage
L115[10:17:42] <Eddi|zuHause> 1500 doesn't
feel like enough for a mun landing
L116[10:17:50] <Eddi|zuHause> from
LKO
L117[10:18:09] <Mat2ch> btw: is there a
mod for different burn patterns of solid stage boosters?
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L119[10:23:42] <Mat2ch> the rumors are
going wild over KSP2 btw. Some are now expecting that the current
version will be soon made into 1.0 to get money from Epic and then
there will be only bugfixes...
L120[10:36:50] <Eddi|zuHause> this was a
more efficient launch, 1900 left
L121[10:37:44] <Mat2ch> :)
L122[10:37:59] <darsie> Eddi|zuHause: The
delta-v map (see topic) says you need 1750 m/s from LKO to land on
the Mun.
L123[10:38:39] <darsie> This should be
fairly precise.
L124[10:38:54] <darsie> Well, landing dv
is mushy.
L125[10:52:45] <Eddi|zuHause> better have
some margin on that for landing
L126[10:53:27] <Eddi|zuHause> something
broke my rover wheels, either while inside the fairing or when
deploying the fairing
L127[11:07:15] <darsie> I can just jetpack
to orbit from the Mun which is 600 m/s.
L128[11:07:31] <darsie> It's tricky.
L129[11:08:17] <darsie> Doing that in
reverse is even trickier.
L130[11:19:30] <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i've
done jetpack to orbit
L131[11:19:42] <darsie> hey, cool :)
L132[11:20:08] <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm
terrible at efficient and precise landings
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L134[11:20:30] <Eddi|zuHause> which i need
when delivering this habitat to the existing science lab
L135[11:21:32] <darsie> OTOH Kebals are
quite resilient during 'landing', so it's not that hard,
actually.
L136[11:49:54] <Mat2ch> land on the head!
They are bouncy! ;)
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L140[12:58:50] <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i got
a mun encounter without first circularizing properly
L141[12:59:15] <Eddi|zuHause> 1000m PE
might be a tiny bit low :p
L142[12:59:21] <Mat2ch> hehe
L143[12:59:30] <Mat2ch> Oh, direct Mun
launches are fun
L144[13:00:15] <Mat2ch> I don't know how
to do it anymore, but it was something like "wait until the
Mun is 1/4th of this" then you can just go for it
L145[13:00:50] <darsie> Eddi|zuHause:
Like, overshooting your ascent? That's probably suboptimal.
L146[13:02:18] <darsie> Maybe not terribly
bad, though.
L147[13:02:22] <Eddi|zuHause> darsie: it
was just marginally off a prograde burn
L148[13:02:35] <Eddi|zuHause> and i still
got 1200dv for mun orbit and landing
L149[13:20:31] <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: I
think I'd start by installing FAR
L150[13:21:08] <Pinkbeast> And try and
make as much of the first stage as possible SRBs mounted as low as
possible with fins on their bottom ends
L151[13:21:50] <Pinkbeast> Also I'd try
Procedural Fairings for a less ghastly fairing shape (in a FAR
world, if it looks wrong it usually doesn't want to fly)
L152[13:22:15] <Pinkbeast> Mat2ch: I know
of at least one SRB burn type mod - dunno the name but it may help
to know it exists
L153[13:25:46] <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: i
have FAR
L154[13:26:02] <Eddi|zuHause> and now i
have two maneuvers planned, 3 minutes apart...
L155[13:26:09] <Pinkbeast> Oh good! Well,
I'd definitely try a less weird looking fairing
L156[13:26:54] <Pinkbeast> IDK about going
50km straight up, more just try and go prograde all the way up...
but also I appreciate this is moot if you're in orbit now
L157[13:28:10] <darsie> I typically do a
gravity turn at 30-100 m/s and when prograde decays to heading I
turn on prograde hold.
L158[13:28:58] <Eddi|zuHause> i did
redesign the fairing to be mostly straight
L159[13:29:23] <Pinkbeast> I like the
egg-shaped ones, they're quite pleasing
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L161[13:30:20] <Pinkbeast> (another way to
avoid flipping is just to keep TWR and hence speed down; this is
not very cost effective.)
L162[13:30:21] <Eddi|zuHause> i made it
slightly wider as well, because the wheels bumping and clipping
against the fairing probably doesn't help anyone
L163[13:30:53] <Pinkbeast> Hangar is
another mod that sparks joy for me
L164[13:33:46] <Eddi|zuHause> my
quick-and-dirty mun encounter maneuver sent me on a weird
trajectory where the encounter is after the kerbin AP, so it takes
a bit longer to arrive
L165[13:34:11] <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise i
could have finished this before the other maneuver...
L166[13:35:06] <Eddi|zuHause>
unfortunately that means i cannot now roll back to launch when my
mun landing attempts show fatal design flaws in the rocket.
L167[13:35:57] <darsie> mhm, you used a
bit more dv to get that trajectory and you'll have to spend that
bit more dv again for capture.
L168[13:37:59] <darsie> I typically make
departure/capture burns close to the body for maximum ????
effect.
L169[13:38:16] <Eddi|zuHause> yes
L170[13:38:34] <Eddi|zuHause> but i only
had a few seconds to plan that maneuver
L171[13:39:14] <Eddi|zuHause> it's gonna
be fine
L172[13:39:32] <darsie> Oberth
L173[13:40:49] <Eddi|zuHause> i had a
fairly high AP from my first stage which was eyeballing the
direction at the last few seconds of burning
L174[13:41:27] <Eddi|zuHause> so i could
have circularized from a higher AP, and waited an entire orbit for
the mun maneuver
L175[13:44:07] <Eddi|zuHause> now i have
to run this intercept maneuver and the mun orbit insertion in
parallel
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L181[15:44:48] <blaze> raptop Hey dude are
you there?
L182[15:46:41] <blaze> purpletarget|ktns
hey are you there? I need an admins help please.
L183[15:46:57] <Mat2ch> probably all
working right now
L184[15:48:42] <blaze> shame
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L197[18:00:55] <Guest54268> raptop
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L199[18:30:52] *
raptop x_x
L200[18:31:15] <raptop> sure, now I'm
active
L201[18:32:14] <XXCoder> youre way too
slow. more than 30 seconds!
L202[18:36:09] <raptop> F
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L205[19:52:56] <Mat2ch> raptop: whoever
blaze is...
L206[19:57:46] <raptop> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
L207[20:48:28] ⇦
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L208[20:57:47] <raptop> If this is about
someone with a similar name's behavior on the discord, it's
probably best that they haven't come back
L209[20:59:01]
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L210[21:07:52] <Mat2ch> uh, most
likely
L211[21:08:00] <Mat2ch> what do they
want?
L212[21:13:02] <raptop> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
L213[21:13:13] <raptop> Guessing it's to
be unbanned
L214[21:21:47] <Mat2ch> possible. Will
result in a kickban though. :D
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L216[22:27:26] <Eddi|zuHause> so... my
engine broke off on landing on the mun...
L217[22:29:33] <Azander> hmmmrescue
mission needs planned then
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L219[22:58:19] <XXCoder> lol reminds me of
that mission where I landed on mun and everything went great
L220[22:58:26] <XXCoder> just a little bit
of engine nozzle falling off
L221[22:58:43] <XXCoder> it pre-dated
engineers so it was unfixable
L222[23:08:27] <Eddi|zuHause> well, that
engine was only meant to be used for landing anyway
L224[23:24:16] <Eddi|zuHause> my large
solar panel is broken, i just noticed... but i should have an
engineer and repair kits in the mun lab
L225[23:24:38] <Eddi|zuHause> it's not
mission critical anyway
L226[23:41:13] <Eddi|zuHause> why did i
put the mun lab in such a steep crater
L227[23:51:10] ⇦
Quits: ergZay (~ergZay@c-73-162-189-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit:
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L228[23:54:44]
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(~ergZay@c-73-162-189-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)