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L5[01:02:46] <SrGato> Hi! is there any way
to switch between different ships without entering the tracking
station?
L6[01:03:41] <SrGato> I mean in ksp1
L7[01:06:19] <Izzy> you can do it from the
map view, and you can do it with the alarm clock
L8[01:07:47] <SrGato> alarm clock?
L9[01:09:40] <packbart> the maneuver alarm
tool. you can switch to vessels that have alarms set
L10[01:09:48] <packbart> but yeah, I
usually use the map view
L11[01:11:28] <SrGato> oh ok
L12[01:11:31] <SrGato> thanks
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L14[01:32:56] <Pinkbeast> Alarm> wait,
does KSP1 have a vanilla maneuver alarm now?
L15[01:38:07] <packbart> it does
L16[01:38:20] <packbart> by the same
author, I guess
L17[01:39:12] <packbart> since 1.12, I
think
L18[01:40:28] <Pinkbeast> Huh, interesting,
thanks. (I see the KAC thread is full of people complaining about
the stock alarm :-)
L19[01:41:41] <packbart> I still use KAC.
it just looks better to me
L20[01:45:30] <Pinkbeast> I'm still in
1.9.1 so it's an easy choice
L21[01:47:50] <Izzy> hoping kOS gets a
stock alarm interface eventually
L22[01:48:02] <Izzy> was nice with KAC but
I'm not going to duplicate functionality y'know?
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L25[02:19:54] <umaxtu> I never really got
into KOS
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L30[03:58:51]
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L31[04:11:28] <raptop> I've had issues with
the time warp in the stock alarm thing. I swear, it messes with
orbits
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L36[04:54:27] <Izzy> cases like stations
inexplicably deorbiting themselves while time warping?
L37[04:58:54] <raptop> not as such, but my
testing was pretty limited, and more of SOI crossing rendezvous
going poof
L38[05:18:14] <Izzy> I've had a few cases
where I'll dock my tiny capsule to do a "take tourists to a
station" mission, only to time warp 15 minutes and end up
dipping into the atmosphere
L39[05:18:36] <Izzy> and I can safely say
the capsule could not change the trajectory of the whole structure
that much if it wanted to
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L42[07:32:32] <taniwha> wanna bet they used
floats :/
L43[07:33:45] <taniwha> (when you're moving
at 2km/s, the limited resolution of floats rears its ugly head when
calculating orbits from position and velocity)
L44[07:33:58] <taniwha> 2km/s and 700km
from the center
L45[07:35:17] <taniwha> 0.12mm/s and 42cm
precision
L46[07:36:06] <taniwha> if they're
repeating calculations base on that, the errors will build up
fast
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L50[08:21:14] <Izzy> KSP seems like a good
case for fixed point numbers
L51[08:23:04] <Izzy> "fixed
point" would be a bit of a misnomer I suppose, you'd just be
using increasingly small units depending on where you put the
decimal
L52[08:23:19] <Izzy> and what your
"base" unit was
L53[08:27:13] <Althego> that sounds like
floating point
L55[08:28:09] <Izzy> well, no, because in
floating point the decimal moves, no? fixed point would specify
"the decimal point is here" and that would be a design
decision
L56[08:28:52] <Althego> until it isnt. all
the horrors of changing units when multiplying numbers
L57[08:29:18] <Althego> shif to this, then
shift back for the result, etc
L58[08:29:31] <Izzy> whole new fun classes
of bugs
L60[08:29:47] <Althego> i saw a whole
simulator written this way in assembly
L61[08:31:54] <Izzy> was curious and did
the maths, if you declare 0x1000 is 1m, you get just under 0.00025m
- 0.25mm - precision and can fit the orbit of neptune into your
game world with 64-bit integers
L62[08:32:09] <Izzy> (and then some)
L63[08:32:29] <Althego> and ksp is cheating
by making everything smaller
L64[08:32:37] <taniwha> fixed point is
*not* the answer
L65[08:33:18] <taniwha> not breaking the
code that others carefully built *is*
L66[08:34:29] <Althego> "violance is
not the answer. it is a question, and the answer is yes"
:)
L67[08:34:41] <Mat2ch> taniwha: for a game
like this it is.
L68[08:35:04] <Althego> anyway people
mostly dont use fixed point numbers today
L69[08:35:31] <Mat2ch> most people aren't
trying to simulate a solar system ;)
L70[08:36:35] <Althego> they can just use
doubles
L71[08:37:14] <Mat2ch> Others might. But
you get huge problems if you try to add very tiny numbers with very
big numbers by using floats.
L72[08:37:25] <taniwha> Mat2ch, go on, go
write a game like this
L73[08:37:42] <Althego> i suggest you dont
use fixed point numbers
L74[08:37:44] <Mat2ch> That's not how a
discussion around this works.
L75[08:37:51] <taniwha> and you get the
same problems trying to add very tiny numbers with very large
numbers
L76[08:37:57] <taniwha> you're going to run
out of room either way
L77[08:38:21] <Mat2ch> Depends on the
precision you wanted to achive.
L78[08:38:26] <taniwha> because with fixed
point, you're going to run out of very small or very big
L79[08:38:51] <Mat2ch> very big is easy to
fix. Very small is just a definition.
L80[08:39:13] <Mat2ch> If you define
nothing moves below a certain limit then nothing will move.
L81[08:39:52] <Mat2ch> If you really want
to get fancy you could go down to the plank length. But I guess
micrometers will be enough
L82[08:40:45] <taniwha> and doubles get you
to Gm with um precision
L83[08:42:34] <Mat2ch> which will eat any
small number if added to it.
L84[08:44:13] <taniwha> yes, and?
L85[08:44:30] <Althego> if it is so far
away, any small movement doesnt matter, you wouldnt see it
anyway
L86[08:45:12] <Mat2ch> those small numbers
could be important. Because you're not adding them once, but
several hundred times
L87[08:45:31] <taniwha> so add them several
hundred times before adding to the big number
L88[08:45:36] <Althego> exactly
L89[08:45:41] <Althego> keep them in their
own reference
L90[08:45:53] <Althego> just transform the
resutl
L91[08:46:03] <Mat2ch> Which is not
possible, because a physics engine can't look into the
future.
L92[08:46:21] <taniwha> it is possible, and
ksp does it
L93[08:46:24] <Althego> no future needed
for it
L94[08:46:25] <taniwha> it's called the
floating origin
L95[08:46:42] <taniwha> and krakensbane
(which is a floating origin for the velocity)
L96[08:46:57] <Mat2ch> how much computing
power does that cost?
L97[08:47:13] <taniwha> very little
L98[08:47:17] <taniwha> or even none
L99[08:47:27] <Althego> krakensbane is
still a funny name
L100[08:47:31] <Mat2ch> Did you do
tests?
L101[08:47:37] <taniwha> did you?
L102[08:47:58] <Mat2ch> How should I? I
never had access to the code.
L103[08:48:05] <taniwha> it costs very
little to none because you're not doing the "big add" all
the time
L104[08:48:27] <taniwha> and working with
floats *is* faster than working with doubles
L105[08:49:03] <Mat2ch> Wasn't talking
about doubles ever.
L106[08:49:04] <taniwha> if for no other
reason than 2x the data points for the same amount of cache
misses
L107[08:55:34] <taniwha> actually, you
were, you just didn't realize it
L108[08:55:44] <taniwha> because it's a
whole system
L109[08:56:24] <Althego> any chance of a
real 128 bit system in the near future?
L110[08:56:56] <taniwha> already have 512
bit systems
L111[08:57:43] <taniwha> but when it comes
to ints: probably not. 64 bits is a lot
L112[08:58:01] <Althego> as far as i know
there is no 128 bit hardware. there are multiple data instructions
which might work with more, but no native 128 bit integers
L113[08:58:07] <taniwha> proper 128 bit
floats would be nice, but that's expensive in gates
L114[08:58:53] <taniwha> intel does have
80-bit floats, though
L115[08:59:04] <Althego> internally at
least
L116[08:59:18] <taniwha> full access at
the asm level
L117[08:59:46] <taniwha> but you have to
use the stack-based fpu
L118[09:00:00] <taniwha> (good old
fp(0-7)
L119[09:00:40] <taniwha> and apparently
the thing has bit-rotted a bit (not as fast as the xmm regs)
L120[09:01:47] <Althego> i gave up waiting
for arm to replace x86. maybe risc-v, but even if t hat happens it
is going to be in 10 years minimum
L121[09:02:31] <Althego> at least intel is
gearing up to cut out old parts of x86, which are just there for
compatibility
L122[09:03:34] <taniwha> the only thing
that will replace x86 is whatever intel's cooking up
L123[09:03:48] <Althego> but they dont
plan anything else
L124[09:04:22] <taniwha> you don't know
what the do and don't plan. you know only what they've talked
about
L125[09:04:31] <Althego> they are lucky if
they can keep up with amd for the next 4 years
L126[09:05:11] <Althego> that is true, i
dont know. but based on the leaks, it is x86 for a while at
least
L127[09:05:12] <taniwha> no, there's no
luck involved
L128[09:05:59] <taniwha> unless by luck
you mean amd slacking off
L129[09:06:41] <Althego> which is totally
can happen if intel falls behind
L130[09:06:51] <Althego> just as it
happened with intel
L131[09:06:59] <Althego> and they still
couldnt completely get back
L132[09:09:11]
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L135[09:45:38] <packbart> hmm. "64bit
star system precision something something" is a talking point
of the Star Citizen pushers
L136[09:46:04] <packbart> (or rather for
Star Engine, a modified Amazon Lumberyard, a modified
CryEngine)
L137[09:49:45] <packbart> Elite Dangerous
already did it before, of course
L138[09:50:51] <Althego> hehe
L139[09:51:44] <sandbox> !mission
L140[09:51:44] <LunchBot> The How It's
Made crew films a 15-minute piece at the KSC facility. For reasons
unkno-o-own!
L141[09:52:31] <Althego> i dont see that
as an outcome
L142[09:52:41] <Althego> however still
fits somehow
L143[09:53:01] <Eddi|zuHause> probably
some kind of reference?
L144[09:53:15] <Eddi|zuHause>
!mission
L145[09:53:15] <LunchBot> You
surrepetitiously replace a cat's blini with a waffle. You help
Kerbals achieve Kardashev level II.
L146[10:29:55]
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L148[11:31:20] ⇦
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L150[12:36:18] <KrazyKrl> ;outcome fixup
s/You help Kerbals achieve/Kerbalkind is moved to/
L151[12:36:19] <LunchBot> New text is:
Kerbalkind is moved to Kardashev level II.
L152[12:36:37] <KrazyKrl> up or down? you
say... "why not both!"
L153[12:40:00] <Eddi|zuHause> !outcome add
Two failures make a success. Right??
L154[12:40:01] <LunchBot> Added outcome:
Two failures make a success. Right??
L155[12:46:55] <KrazyKrl> ;outcome fixup
s/??/‽‽/
L156[12:46:55] <LunchBot> New text is: Two
failures make a success. Right‽‽
L157[12:47:05] <KrazyKrl> ftfy
L158[12:47:45] <Eddi|zuHause> could be
argued either way
L159[12:47:54] <KrazyKrl> ;outcome add
Your usage of interrobangs increases by 500%‽
L160[12:47:54] <LunchBot> Added outcome:
Your usage of interrobangs increases by 500%‽
L161[12:48:27] <Eddi|zuHause> typically i
spell it "?!?"
L162[12:48:42] <KrazyKrl> yea, that's the
uncool way of doing it.
L163[12:49:01] <Eddi|zuHause> but i
specifically didn't use that in this case
L164[12:58:15] ⇦
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L167[13:51:41] <sandbox> !mission
L168[13:51:41] <LunchBot> You open the
mystery goo at the bottom of the ocean. There are unforeseen
consequences.
L169[13:53:32] <Eddi|zuHause> oh
noes.
L170[14:03:14] ⇦
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L174[15:04:28] <packbart> There is a
difference between ?! and !? that a single character cannot
convey
L175[15:12:42] <Eddi|zuHause> also, the
combined char is chosen from a fallback font that is not
monospace.
L176[15:13:16] <Eddi|zuHause> (but that's
probably a me problem)
L177[15:13:24] <packbart> yeah, it looks a
bit weird on my screen, too
L178[15:15:39] <umaxtu> I've fired up KSP2
for the first time since April, has the center of mass never
updated when you change the ammount of propellent in a tank?
L179[16:10:19] <umaxtu> built an ssto but
it keeps summersaulting forward when I try to land.
L180[16:14:12] <sandbox> somersault
L181[16:16:11] <umaxtu> *facepalm*
L182[16:16:17] <Althego> hehe
L183[16:17:58] <umaxtu> at least its not
darting off to the side and rolling over like most of the planes I
build in KSP1
L184[16:18:17] <Pinkbeast> Eh, technically
"SSTO" says nothing about what happens to it after that,
so call it success :-)
L185[16:18:36] <umaxtu> easy to do since
the cockpit survived
L186[16:42:46]
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L187[17:30:59] <FLHerne> SSTOAB
L188[17:33:08] <Mat2ch> AB?
L189[17:33:21] <Althego> and back?
L190[17:36:51] <Mat2ch> all
backwards!
L191[17:37:06] <Mat2ch> assembled
backwards?
L192[17:37:38] <Althego> ab: afterburner,
mwd: microwarpdrive
L193[18:26:11]
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L197[19:30:06] <Eddi|zuHause>
!mission
L198[19:30:07] <LunchBot> Across the gulf
of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to those of the
beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic,
regard Kerbin with envious eyes, and slowly and surely draw their
plans against us. You receive the prestigious Kerman Prize for
Idiocy in Spaceflight, presented by Jebediah Kerman himself.
L199[19:30:46] <Eddi|zuHause> oh, a
price
L200[19:58:26] <XXCoder> interesting plan
from aliens
L201[19:58:36] <Mat2ch> !mission
L202[19:58:36] <LunchBot> You mistakenly
input minutes instead of seconds into the barbeque roll maneuver
duration. It is unclear which button to press, so Jeb presses all
of them.
L203[19:59:10] <XXCoder> I blame jeb
L204[19:59:31] <Mat2ch> It's always
Jeb
L205[20:04:31] <darsie> .outcome add Jeb
fails to keep your rocket retrograde during entry.
L206[20:04:31] <LunchBot> Added outcome:
Jeb fails to keep your rocket retrograde during entry.
L207[20:18:45] ⇦
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Module Alpha Humana on approach to Space Station
Mercury)
L208[20:31:51] ⇦
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L210[21:12:08] <sandbox> !mission
L211[21:12:09] <LunchBot> You decide to
circumnavigate all the things. Taniwha deletes your recently added
;mission due to your bad grammar.
L212[21:57:45] ⇦
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L214[22:11:15] <XXCoder> ;mission add Jeb
wonders what would happen if he presses a button way beyond what is
recommanded press time.
L215[22:11:15] <LunchBot> Added mission:
Jeb wonders what would happen if he presses a button way beyond
what is recommanded press time.
L216[22:14:35] <raptop> !mission
L217[22:14:35] <LunchBot> Stock aero comes
out. A creepy old wizard screams "BINDING MAGICAL
CONTRACT!" and pays you in weird gold coins.
L218[22:20:14] <raptop> coins with drag
cubes
L219[22:57:54] ⇦
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L221[23:44:22] <FLHerne> .outcome add It
why you know but don't works.
L222[23:44:22] <LunchBot> Added outcome:
It why you know but don't works.