OCLogs: 2023-08-24.log

Stuff goes here

L1[00:14:14] <XXCoder> ;mission

L2[00:14:14] <LunchBot> In effort to curb embezzlement, you spend all your funds to convert SolidFuel to FOOF. Your rocket sinks the recovery barge.

L3[00:14:31] <XXCoder> too muchn f00f for mission

L4[00:15:58] <Mat2ch> raptop: They could have used LUA to shoot themselves in the foot!

L5[00:18:32] <raptop> possibly, though I'd expect that in the late-90s to mid-00s when the decision was made, JavaScript was more clearly the new hotness

L6[00:19:48] <Mat2ch> I wouldn't be so sure if the computing stuff was one of the things that got fixed at the last point possible

L7[00:22:50] <Mat2ch> They are using SSDs, so it must be newer

L8[00:28:57] <raptop> You might be surprised: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20210005111

L9[00:29:46] <Althego> galileo still used tape if i remember correctly

L10[00:29:53] <Althego> cassino was only a bit newer

L11[00:29:53] <raptop> Indeed it did

L12[00:30:52] <raptop> Although Galileo was also supposed to launch in '86 or '87 and then sat in a warehouse for a bit...

L13[00:32:05] <raptop> ah, may 1986

L14[00:33:39] <Mat2ch> well, technically a magnetic-core memory is also a solid state disk...

L15[00:35:22] <raptop> hah

L16[00:36:37] <Althego> so after solids, can we make liquid and gas storage?

L17[00:39:51] <raptop> Yes, also plasma storage

L18[00:39:58] <raptop> obviously

L19[00:40:15] <XXCoder> gases compressed to solid ;)

L20[00:40:16] <Althego> sounds cool

L21[00:40:29] <XXCoder> completing the circle

L22[00:40:30] <Althego> plasma based datastorage

L23[00:40:50] <Althego> metal hydrogen storage

L24[00:41:28] <Mat2ch> if you use a plasma monitor and a camera... is that plasma storage?

L25[00:41:34] <XXCoder> I remember one book had a energy matrix storage. it looks like crystal and grows when more storage is needed

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L27[00:41:53] <Althego> we have something like that

L28[00:41:59] <Althego> you cnagrow trees for energy storage

L29[00:42:05] <Althego> and burn them to get back the nergy

L30[00:55:49] <sandbox> cnagrow nergy

L31[00:56:10] <Althego> start wandows ngrmadly

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L33[01:00:32] <raptop> But if I set windows on fire, will I get energy?

L34[01:06:21] <Mat2ch> No, but good conscience

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L38[02:03:26] <Izzy> re: javascript spacecraft, the SpaceX capsules have all their controls implemented inside a web browser, don't they?

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L40[02:04:28] <Althego> they still have a few buttons for emergencies

L41[02:04:48] <Althego> but yes the controls are in a browser

L42[02:06:12] <sandbox> !mission

L43[02:06:12] <LunchBot> Prince Rupert's Drops seem neat, so you devise a way to achieve the same effect with a planet. You get rebuffed.

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L50[03:43:10] <Mat2ch> Izzy: from what I've read they just use a subset of commands and they have their own interpreter

L51[03:43:22] <Mat2ch> so it looks like JavaScript most of the time, but isn't really it.

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L53[04:09:46] <FLHerne> Mat2ch: according to the reddit AMA a few years ago, it was literally Chromium https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/gxb7j1/we_are_the_spacex_software_team_ask_us_anything/ft5zou3/

L54[04:10:37] <FLHerne> another relevant answer https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/gxb7j1/we_are_the_spacex_software_team_ask_us_anything/ft68jpb/

L55[04:13:32] <Mat2ch> I sometimes wonder about the state of mind of my fellow software developers.

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L58[04:36:05] <FLHerne> "This project started as a simulator prototype to showcase the design vision to NASA. We then attempted to run it on a flight hardware and with modifications it worked pretty well."

L59[04:36:07] <FLHerne> lol

L60[04:36:52] <FLHerne> I've had prototypes accidentally become the final product, but not on spacecraft

L61[04:39:05] <Mat2ch> I really REALLY wonder about the state of mind of them.

L62[04:39:38] <Mat2ch> You never do a mockup so good it can become the final product OR you do the mockup in a way that it can become the final product and not be on the edge of sane things to do.

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L65[04:56:37] <FLHerne> I mean, it's just the UI

L66[04:56:56] <FLHerne> JS is pretty good at being a UI really

L67[04:57:41] <FLHerne> there's probably an order of magnitude more interaction with JS-based UIs than everything else put together

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L69[05:15:14] <Izzy> kinda messed up that so much software is implemented inside documents huh

L70[05:16:06] <Izzy> apparently excel has python support now, so you can have a full stack of cursed: excel "database", python webserver, document masquerading as software for the interface

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L72[05:19:23] <Mat2ch> Izzy: Clear case of Featuritis. Modernizing a 20 year old server landscape will cure that.

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L74[05:20:24] <Mat2ch> FLHerne: But even then it's a bad solution in my opinion. A webbrowser is extremly complex and you don't want to rely on complexity.

L75[05:20:39] <Mat2ch> Simple and stupid, that's the way you should always take.

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L77[06:20:17] <Eddi|zuHause> these days "modernizing server" means "put it in the cloud"

L78[06:20:29] <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that makes it less complex :p

L79[06:22:59] <Eddi|zuHause> !mission

L80[06:22:59] <LunchBot> You cook up a really nice batch of random. You become obsessed with what you can convince your stove to burn... Large, unwieldy or inflammable objects of rubbish are graded highly, according to your success in convincing the stove to eat them.

L81[06:23:33] <Eddi|zuHause> today is cooking day...

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L100[15:27:20] <Azander> !mission

L101[15:27:20] <LunchBot> You arrive on the Mun, only to discover that Scott Manley has beaten you there. The hatch is obscured.

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L103[15:28:30] <darsie> .mission add You blast off to get a surface sample of Scott Manley.

L104[15:28:30] <LunchBot> Added mission: You blast off to get a surface sample of Scott Manley.

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L106[15:29:35] <darsie> .mission fixup s/Scott Manley/Scottmanley/

L107[15:29:35] <LunchBot> New text is: You blast off to get a surface sample of Scottmanley.

L108[15:30:14] <darsie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meanings_of_minor_planet_names:_33001%E2%80%9334000#434

L109[15:31:48] <darsie> https://www.spacereference.org/asteroid/33434-scottmanley-1999-fu

L110[15:32:02] <darsie> Magnitude: 14.07 ... I should shoot it.

L111[15:40:23] <darsie> Ahh, that's its absolute magnitude. Visual magnitude is 18.27, too dim for me.

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L114[16:51:09] <packbart> Mat2ch: I think a widely used HTML/JS engine is no more complex than someone whipping up a custom UI with QT

L115[16:57:46] <packbart> (and it seems to be a bit different in the JWST - https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/18/23206110/james-webb-space-telescope-javascript-jwst-instrument-control )

L116[17:05:22] <Azander> packbart: I agree, from a programming standpoint they are about the same.

L117[17:05:50] <Azander> similar as CoBOL and RPG too

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L120[17:40:53] <Izzy> now I don't know off the top of my head how big Qt is, probably quite large; but I was under the impression Chromium was at least larger than the Linux kernel

L121[17:56:30] <FLHerne> Qt is pretty large, but not that large

L122[17:58:51] <FLHerne> but the relevant parts of Chromium - rendering of straightforward HTML/CSS/JS content - are used all day, every day by billions of people

L123[18:00:14] <FLHerne> it may be complex, but it's very well-characterized complexity

L124[18:01:05] <Izzy> it certainly gets a lot of use and abuse, which is Something

L125[18:01:08] <Izzy> lots of eyes on it

L126[18:01:47] <FLHerne> whereas my personal experience with Qt is that it's quite easy to stumble across significant bugs in the library

L127[18:02:36] <Azander> the big issue is that just ro open a window and pring "hello world" you have to link in all of QT instad of just what you need. Most computer languages these days are that way.

L128[18:03:13] <FLHerne> because a lot of it only has a handful of major users that haven't explored every corner case

L129[18:03:40] <FLHerne> Qt is somewhat modular

L130[18:04:38] <Azander> yes, it is. It isn't as bad a Java, Visual Basic, or C#

L131[18:04:46] <FLHerne> core, widgets, scripting, declarative stuff etc are all separate libs

L132[18:05:04] <Azander> but if I don't need the "input functions" I still have to include them

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