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L1[00:04:19] <SporkWitch> i think that might
be my new favourite outcome lol
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L4[01:21:33] <packbart> !mission
L5[01:21:34] <LunchBot> You try to present
your findings on a possible link between the Deep Space Kraken and
the Horrorterrors of the Furthest Ring, but no one takes you
seriously. You think you can't make it, you cheat edit in the
resources you need.
L6[01:22:36] <SporkWitch> "you won't
back my grant proposal?! FINE!"
L7[01:22:54] <packbart> Ooh, I'll make them
take me seriously
L9[01:24:52] <umaxtu> seems a little
overkill for ksp
L10[01:25:09] <SporkWitch> KSP isn't the
only thing i play
L11[01:25:18] <umaxtu> what!?!
L12[01:25:26] <umaxtu> mods! ban him!
L13[01:25:37] <umaxtu> /s of course
L14[01:25:48] <SporkWitch> besides, we
don't know what KSP2 will take :P
L15[01:26:27] <umaxtu> it better run ok on
my 3070 since I'm buying a car next month
L16[01:26:55] <SporkWitch> heh
L17[01:29:14] <Izaya> I looked into getting
a 6800XT but decided to get an XT250 instead
L18[01:29:19] <Izaya> worked out
cheaper
L19[01:30:23] <umaxtu> I kinda lucked into
this 3070. its a founders edition that I managed to score from a
Best Buy drop last summer
L20[01:30:45] <SporkWitch> that best buy
exclusivity pissed me off
L21[01:30:58] <umaxtu> for sure
L22[01:31:10] <SporkWitch> the ROG strix is
popular enough, though, so at least it's easy to find water blocks
for
L23[01:31:55] <umaxtu> I don't need to cool
my computer any more efficiently, it already makes my room more
than warm enough
L24[01:32:45] <umaxtu> water cooling does
look dope though
L25[01:32:46] <SporkWitch> saves on the AC
bill in the summer and the heating bill in the winter heh. also
means longer life for the card
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L65[14:55:15] <Izaya> using angled
nosecones on my SRBs so they peel away from my rocket without any
secondary SRBs necessary
L66[14:59:35] <SporkWitch> i've only really
had issues if i didn' position the decouplers right. If I put them
above the booster's centre of mass, and don't have them too high up
on the core, the tend to separate cleanly without separatrons.
Exception: if you use more than 2x symmetry and/or don't have the
separating stages paralel to the ground (of course this is
desirable anyway, even with just 2x symmetry, since it
L67[15:00:21] <SporkWitch> means less
thrust vectoring to maintain attitude; i think KSP is accurate
enough that that matters, but even if not, it definitely is after
stage separation, since now it's separate vessels)
L68[15:00:46] <packbart> it does look nicer
with Sepratrons (and only a smidge of solid fuel) in them, in my
opinion. I tend to leave them out in careers when not needed
L69[15:01:11] <SporkWitch> fewer parts =
fewer things to go wrong / screw up staging
L70[15:01:16] <SporkWitch> lol
L71[15:02:24] <packbart> I really only use
sepratrons to decouple a heavy booster tank from the next stage.
it's not necessary either, it just gets the upper stage away a bit
cleaner before ignition
L72[15:03:47] <Izaya> I'm using 3x symmetry
here so the one on the "top" of the rocket is presenting
a problem
L73[15:04:36] <Izaya> if I angle the
nosecone one step away from the core stage, it happily floats
backwards and away
L74[15:04:43] <packbart> ah. I usually put
that on the side to where the rocket turns on ascent. but yeah,
that position is prone to crash into an engine
L75[15:08:25] <Izaya> that makes a lot of
sense, putting it on the bottom
L76[15:08:34] <Izaya> but then it would
crash into the fins, and I need those too
L77[15:10:37] <Izaya> (the two on the
sides, that is)
L79[15:50:02] <packbart> kOS is such a
horrible language. "You wrote 'to'. Did you mean
'TO'?"
L80[15:52:45] <Pinkbeast> I've not seen
that, and AFAIK it's not case sensitive - how did you produce
it?
L81[15:53:31] <packbart> the error message
in Izaya's screenshot
L82[15:54:05] <Pinkbeast> ... isn't
that?
L83[15:54:14] <Izaya> 'declare param times
is 1.' rather than 'declare parameter times is 1.'
L84[15:54:34] <Izaya> low-key wish kOS just
gave you basic or forth or lua or something
L85[15:54:49] <Izaya> KS is pain.
L86[15:54:52] <Pinkbeast> (kOS is a
horrible language but I don't think it's horrible in that specific
respect)
L87[15:55:10] <Pinkbeast> Discovering a
ks-mode for emacs eased the pain considerably, I found.
L88[15:55:19] <packbart> interesting. I
interepreted that "unexpected token 't'" to refer to the
"to". ok, I admit that might have been overreacting
L89[15:55:20] <Izaya> I wonder if there's a
vim plugin for it
L90[15:55:24] <packbart> I still don't like
its language ;)
L91[15:55:47] <Izaya> apparently it's
running on a stack machine so theoretically you could map it
reasonably well to a forth
L92[15:55:53] <Izaya> but I choose
sanity
L94[15:56:21] <Izaya> sweet!
L95[15:56:46] <Pinkbeast> Last night, by
coincidence, I tripped _again_ over the decision to make some
things not be measured in the obvious SI units. # albeit that's not
completely arbitary
L96[15:56:56] <packbart> Lua-based RedOnion
with the terminal UI from kOS, that would be sweet
L97[15:57:07] <Izaya> RedOnion?
L98[15:57:16] <SporkWitch> Pinkbeast:
what's the real-world count at now for spacecraft that failed
because of unit mismatch? lol
L99[15:57:34] <Izaya> > links to a
404
L100[15:57:40] <Izaya> ah well, I'll look
into it later
L102[15:58:29] <SporkWitch> repo has the
vim plugin with vundle support
L103[16:05:05] <SporkWitch> so i haven't
seen it yet, and i've not actually paid any attention to what it's
supposed to be about, but it looks like the new top gun has them
developing an SSTO spaceplane? lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THeoKjVlFSw
L104[16:19:36] <Izaya> in one of Matthew
Reilly's books, the main character flies across the world in one of
the supersonic X-planes with rockets
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L107[16:23:37] <SporkWitch> don't recall
that name
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L109[16:33:49] <Izaya> writes action
movies in book form
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L112[17:37:35] <raptop> !outcome add Help,
I'm trapped in a mission factory.
L113[17:37:35] <LunchBot> Added outcome:
Help, I'm trapped in a mission factory.
L114[17:38:13] <Althego> but that is an
outcome
L115[17:39:36] <raptop> Yes, though it
should work in terms of mission being the superset of missions and
outcomes
L116[17:39:56] <Althego> but what if it is
a raptop factory
L117[17:40:16] <Althego> and you wrote
that in because it is part of your program
L118[17:40:37] <raptop> If there's a
factory full of raptops, I think we have other problems
L119[17:40:51] <Althego> in parallel
universes
L120[17:41:13] <raptop> Are we measuring
the distance to those parallel universes in half a-presses?
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L123[18:12:25] <minas_tirith> hey raptop
do you think the jwst would be able to see the first light
L124[18:19:06] <raptop> unsure what you
mean
L125[18:19:43] <darsie> The first light is
gone.
L126[18:19:51] <darsie> It was
absorbed.
L127[18:20:00] <raptop> I could vaguely
guess about seeing Pop III stars
L128[18:27:23] <Izaya> If I land at the
dessert launch site and recover my spacecraft, will that give me a
similar fund refund as landing it at the KSC?
L129[18:29:31] <umaxtu> I haven't been to
the dessert site it forever
L130[18:30:05] <raptop> On the pad/runway
at the site should be 100%, unsure otherwise
L131[18:30:08] <raptop> IIRC
L132[18:30:08] <SporkWitch> as long as
you're on the biome that's considered to be a formal launch site or
airstrip, it counts. I don't know if you get reduced percentile
when NEAR it, though
L133[18:30:21] <Izaya> hmm, landing ON it
would be difficult
L134[18:30:46] <SporkWitch> recover on the
airstrip, 100% return, same as KSC, 100m off, not sure, that might
go by distance to KSC, not distance to nearest unlocked launchable
location
L135[18:31:01] <Izaya> I'll have to
test
L136[18:31:03] <SporkWitch> i usually
don't bother targeting my kerbin landings unless it's a plane
L137[18:31:16] <Izaya> Gotta get that
sweet, sweet recovery
L138[18:31:29] <Izaya> taking three people
to my station costs me <2k funds
L139[18:32:45] <Izaya> thinking that if
recovering at the dessert launch site gives me the same sort of
numbers as the KSC, I'll modify my deorbit script to accept
whichever is first
L140[18:33:31] <Izaya> Reduce my
turnaround time for passenger flights
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L146[19:25:02] <SporkWitch> Izaya: so
according to steam's FPS overlay, i'm getting 10-15FPS where before
my station got me 5-6 according to the same. That said, it FEELS a
lot more responsive and smooth, so I think that lies. Gonna test on
the runway, now
L147[19:32:27] <umaxtu> you got your
gpu?
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L149[19:33:48] <SporkWitch> yep
L150[19:34:11] <SporkWitch> annoyingly,
had to pull the PSU; it took 3x8pin power connectors, instead of
two, so i had to add another cable to the PSU lol
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L152[19:34:38] <SporkWitch> i think steam
doesn't know what to do with the framerate... it doesn't feel crazy
high, but it feels a LOT smoother and more responsive than what
steam's reporting
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L154[19:34:59] <SporkWitch> (like what it
was reporting as 10FPS felt more like 30+, and what it's saying is
25-30 right now feels more like double that)
L155[19:35:05] <umaxtu> you try msi
afterburner?
L156[19:35:15] <SporkWitch> no tweaks done
yet, this is just out of the box
L157[19:35:33] <umaxtu> you should be
getting a lot more fps than that with a 3080. I do with my
3070
L158[19:35:34] <SporkWitch> everything
in-game cranked to max, 2560x1440, and a boatload of graphics mods
(and other mods)
L159[19:35:42] <SporkWitch> what
CPU?
L160[19:35:47] <umaxtu> 5900X
L161[19:36:00] <SporkWitch> performance
contrast with Ryzen 9 3950x?
L162[19:36:45] <SporkWitch> paused it's
claiming 42fps right now
L163[19:36:45] <umaxtu> better I think.
not sure how much
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L166[19:37:07] <umaxtu> btw, I hope you
didn't get an EVGA gpu
L168[19:37:22] <SporkWitch> asus rog
strix, hence the extra power cable
L169[19:37:25] <umaxtu> I'll have to check
my performance when I get home from work
L170[19:37:40] <SporkWitch> unpaused it's
claiming 15, but it FEELS like a lot more
L171[19:37:42] <Althego> not really a
problem, even if it was evga, they are going to keep warranty for
30 series
L172[19:38:04] <Althego> anyway the
shocker is evga terminated partnership with nvidia and they are not
going to make video cards anymore
L173[19:38:27] <umaxtu> yeah. it's
bonkers
L174[19:38:56] <SporkWitch> any
suggestions other than steam overlay for verifying FPS?
L175[19:39:11] <Althego> capture programs
usually show it
L176[19:39:18] <SporkWitch> don't have any
heh
L177[19:39:26] <SporkWitch> oh, nvidia's
own thing might support showing fps
L178[19:39:28] <Althego> i dont know, does
the nvidia capture thingie shows it?
L179[19:39:48] <Althego> shadowplay
L180[19:40:21] <Althego> ksp has a built
in fps graph in the debug menu
L181[19:40:32] <Althego> if i remember
correctly
L182[19:41:11] <Izaya> SporkWitch:
mangohud has a nice frametime graph also
L183[19:42:45] <SporkWitch> nvidia's
reporting about the same as steam. in-game debug are you referring
to the performance tab? it's not clearly labeled but is that
supposed to be FPS?
L184[19:45:59] <Althego> yes i think that
is it
L185[19:46:08] <Althego> but i havent used
it for a long time
L186[19:46:19] <SporkWitch> if that's it,
it's claiming stable 25
L187[19:57:28] <SporkWitch> so yeah, no
idea. definitely feels like more FPS that it claims i'm getting
lol
L188[19:57:49] <SporkWitch> in any case,
for izaya's purposes, i think it answers the question: ryzen CPU
should be fine even with a boatload of mods
L189[20:05:15] <Izaya> sweet
L190[20:05:52] <SporkWitch> i'm
technically at work, but i can try streaming through discord later,
might give some idea of why i don't think it's reporting framerate
right lol
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L195[21:26:54] <sandbox> it's a mystery
why anyone would want any of those enabled
L196[21:27:47] <SporkWitch> chromatic
aberration because people are used to looking at things recorded on
camera, so it looks "pretty" like special effects. motion
blur to hide artifacts and stuffer, depth of field again for
camera-like behaviour
L197[21:28:17] <SporkWitch> at least
motion blur i can understand being a default, since devs would want
to hide anything that makes the game look bad, but the other two
are almost purely aesthetic with no meaningful performance impact
i'm aware of
L198[21:28:22] <sandbox> it always looks
awful
L199[21:28:40] <sandbox> without
exception
L200[21:29:33] <SporkWitch> consider how
many kids with potatoes blame the game for their framerate; these
people don't know what settings do, they just turn everything on,
if they touch them at all. since they're near-universal defaults,
they're USED to it
L201[21:52:10] <Izaya> > DLSS
enabled
L202[21:52:20] <Izaya> that's why you're
able to run it reasonably
L203[21:53:18] <Izaya> on a related note,
did they end up implementing FSR in CP2077 or is it a
WINE_FULLSCREEN_FSR=1 sorta game still?
L204[21:53:25] <SporkWitch> DLSS is
basically mandatory. Without support for it in the game, the RTX
cards don't perform all that much better than 10- and 16- series
cards
L205[21:53:45] <SporkWitch> ther's a
setting for AMD FSR in-game, if that's what you're asking
L206[21:53:56] <Izaya> sweet, might give
it another go some time then
L207[21:54:24] <SporkWitch> i ran the
bench twice, once without DLSS but with FSR (I didn't notice it
disabled DLSS lol), and once with DLSS. Settings were otherwise
identical. Difference was only about 10 FPS
L208[21:55:03] <Izaya> when I tried it,
fairly shortly after release, I could only manage a stuttery 20FPS
on lower-than-lowest settings
L210[21:55:29] <Izaya> I gather it's
improved significantly since, and built-in FSR would certainly
help.
L211[21:55:40] <SporkWitch> with the
GTX1060, I could run the preset below ultra if i dropped the
resolution to 1920x1080, medium at 2560x1440, both with acceptable
but not stellar performance, but still looking good
L212[21:55:46] <SporkWitch> only change on
this rig is the GPU
L213[21:56:57] <Izaya> (as for
WINE_FULLSCREEN_FSR, some Proton builds come with a thinger to run
FSR on any fullscreen Direct3D application, but then you end up
scaling up the UI, so built-in FSR is preferable)
L215[22:08:25] <SporkWitch> i almost
wonder if power is a factor. i forgot i only got an 850W PSU, and
according to HWmonitor it actually hit a max of 357W draw just from
the GPU alone...
L216[22:09:12] <SporkWitch> still, more
than acceptable improvement in KSP performance and i can probably
get more if i tidy up the mod setup; it probably is signfiicantly
CPU-bottlenecked just with all the crap i have going on
L217[22:09:20] <SporkWitch> and definitely
works great for other games
L218[22:10:11] <Izaya> lmao that's right,
they were talking about 4xxx series cards using like 700W
L219[22:10:36] <Izaya> I had a 2x GTX 690
setup at one point, 4 GPUs total; the max TDP of that setup was
600W
L220[22:10:56] <SporkWitch> yeah, stuff's
hungry these days lol
L221[22:11:58] <SporkWitch> on the upside,
the PSU is an 80PLUS- Platinum, so nice, high efficiency (important
with the way our Dear Leaders have been driving energy
prices)
L222[22:12:15] *
Izaya smugs in solar
L223[22:12:31] *
SporkWitch laughs in cloud
L224[22:12:52] <Izaya> my last quarterly
power bill was $3
L225[22:12:56] <SporkWitch> and winter...
and about 23 hours out of the day...
L226[22:13:07] <SporkWitch> jesus, is your
entire house covered in panels? lol
L227[22:13:21] <Izaya> got a battery
system and half the roof covered
L228[22:13:25] <Izaya> plus,
australia
L229[22:13:40] <SporkWitch> even so,
that's nuts.
L230[22:14:02] <Izaya> my grandad gets
paid by the power company still, and he doesn't have a
battery
L231[22:14:05] <SporkWitch> here in the
US, most solar setups, if you're lucky, might save you a couple
bucks
L232[22:14:09] <Izaya> he uses a lot less
power than me though
L233[22:14:19] <SporkWitch> is it
subsidized directly, not just a tax break for the install?
L234[22:14:27] <Izaya> it was for a
while
L235[22:14:38] <SporkWitch> it's very
difficult for me to believe that it's legitimately covering 99% of
your usage lol
L236[22:14:46] <SporkWitch> even if you're
single like me lol
L237[22:15:12] <Izaya> let me pull up
grafana
L238[22:15:15] <SporkWitch> (as in the
actual power draw)
L239[22:15:50] <SporkWitch> now if the
gov's subsidizing it directly? okay, that's a lot easier to swallow
if they're literally paying you a premium for it to encourage more
people to do it
L240[22:15:54] <Izaya> solar output in the
last week peaked at 6.4kW, and power usage peaked at 4.4
L241[22:16:21] <Izaya> whatever doesn't go
into the battery (11.4kWH) gets sold to the grid for peanuts, but
it's something
L242[22:16:46] <SporkWitch> pre-subsidy,
how much was the install and setup?
L243[22:16:55] <SporkWitch> (as in total,
all parts and labor)
L244[22:17:02] <Izaya> a setup like this
is like $15k
L245[22:17:23] <SporkWitch> so you're
looking at, what, a decade to break even?
L246[22:17:24] <Izaya> but 10 of that is
the battery
L247[22:17:42] <SporkWitch> and i'm
assuming that's 15k AFTER the government subsidies to reduce the
prices
L248[22:18:01] <Izaya> no, they didn't
cover this
L249[22:18:02] <SporkWitch> (i'm also
assuming australia has huge tax breaks and subsidies for it, like
the US does)
L250[22:18:13] <Izaya> they don't like you
doing setups with batteries
L251[22:18:55] <SporkWitch> i see; gods
forbid you actually have a setup that could potentially be viable.
Gotta keep it to eco virtue signaling, not actual effective moves
(*cough*nuclear*cough*)
L252[22:19:10] <Izaya> I'm not sure what
the current subsidies with panels are but honestly it doesn't
matter, power is only getting more expensive
L253[22:19:13] <SporkWitch> (responding to
your statement of them not liking the batteries)
L254[22:19:33] <Izaya> at least we're
doing something about that now
L255[22:20:00] <Izaya> new government
won't bankroll any new coal power plants, so that's already an
improvement /o/
L256[22:20:15] <SporkWitch> true. I
haven't been following the penal colony recently, so don't know how
things are going. I've mostly been seeing the US and Europe where
they're intentionally driving costs up.
L257[22:20:46] <Izaya> the previous
government is less of a political party and more of a consultancy
firm for mining companies
L258[22:20:48] <SporkWitch> (then blaming
Russia for all of it, despite it starting well before the war, and
their own internal policies being what put them at Russia's
mercy)
L259[22:21:06] <Izaya> so they were all
about coal(TM)
L260[22:21:22] <SporkWitch> hey, i'm all
for getting rid of fossil fuel power generation, just not when
they're doing the same to nuclear in the same breath
L261[22:21:26] <SporkWitch> that's not
progress, that's suicide
L262[22:22:17] <Izaya> we never had any
nuclear, and I don't feel strongly either way
L263[22:22:30] <SporkWitch> as long as you
back nuclear fission while we work on nuclear fusion, you can have
all the wind and solar you want, just as long as the coal and oil
we're getting rid of is replaced with something that actually CAN
replace it
L264[22:22:38] <Izaya> australia would be
a good place for nuclear power plants, lots of empty space, no
chance of earthquakes, but we're also a good place for distributed
solar
L265[22:22:58] ⇦
Quits: sandbox (~sandbox@host-92-30-123-106.as13285.net) (Quit:
Leaving)
L267[22:24:22] ⇦
Quits: King_Arthur (dalewyn@63.155.27.29) (Ping timeout: 189
seconds)
L268[22:24:26] <SporkWitch> it's a big
deal for the US and europe, because wind and solar are NOT
realistic alternatives here. Combine it with shutting down nuclear
as well, and you're looking at disaster. Even with most of their
power still being coal and oil, CA is known nation-wide for PLANNED
rolling blackouts, which have literally killed people who are at
home and depend on things like respirators and such
L269[22:25:08] <Izaya> a properly designed
and maintained and run NPP is cool and good and I approve
L270[22:25:15] <SporkWitch> And the
anti-nuclear push further exacerbates the difficulties in cracking
fusion, since they're about to be shutting down the ONLY three
reactors in the world that produce tritium (essential for fusion
research)
L271[22:25:19] <Izaya> but it's not a
factor in my life, y'know? :p
L272[22:25:40] <SporkWitch> ITER's going
to be using up HALF of the current global supply of tritium
L273[22:26:45] <SporkWitch> for
perspective, something like 500g of tritium is produced by those
three reactors annually; the current global supply is around 25Kg,
and it has a half-life of just over 12 years
L274[22:27:58]
⇨ Joins: King_Arthur (dalewyn@63.155.25.192)
L275[23:09:41] <Izaya> Heh, had a kerbal
generated with the name "Munbas Kerman." Wonder what they
want out of life.
L276[23:26:03] ⇦
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