OCLogs: 2021-11-23.log

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L6[01:05:39] <Bebiezaza> wow

L7[01:05:56] <Bebiezaza> esper webchat didnt save or fetch the chat history

L8[01:05:56] <Bebiezaza> sad

L9[01:06:43] <Bebiezaza> could someone recap the last 8 hours about wiki userscript?

L10[01:10:46] <darsie> Bebiezaza: Does that help? https://paste.debian.net/1220476

L11[01:11:35] <XXCoder> Bebiezaza: last time someone spoke before you is... you

L12[01:14:25] <Bebiezaza> darsie yes, that helped.

L13[01:14:50] <Bebiezaza> XXCoder oh 🙃

L14[01:15:07] <XXCoder> :)

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L16[01:35:18] <packbart> that's why I ignore JOIN/PART/QUIT in this channel

L17[01:36:51] <XXCoder> mine is filtered by norepeat plugin i made

L18[01:37:07] <XXCoder> after 2 join and leaves, it stops any new ones from same person

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L38[06:26:00] <Althego> heh, smol ame and roboco

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L48[10:31:33] <Mat2ch> aaaaaaand James Webb is delayed again.

L49[10:32:11] <XXCoder> yeah something snapped

L50[10:32:15] <XXCoder> vibrated whole thing.

L51[10:32:24] <XXCoder> i wonder if that means complete checkover

L52[10:32:27] <Mat2ch> https://www.arianespace.com/corporate-news/nasa-update-webb-telescope-launch-arianespace/

L53[10:32:36] <Mat2ch> they just want to check that one instrument

L54[10:33:11] <Mat2ch> oh, the article I first read just said one instrument, not the whole thing

L55[10:33:43] <Mat2ch> tbh, if it just jumped around a bit it should be fine. If it hit something, then maybe not.

L56[10:33:56] <Mat2ch> But that's the anomaly teams decision to make.

L57[10:34:01] <XXCoder> yeah

L58[10:34:11] <XXCoder> have to checkover i think, because launching is very expensive

L59[10:34:14] <Mat2ch> (during the launch it will wiggle around a lot more, so I hope it's fine)

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L61[10:34:22] <Mat2ch> I'd wanna make sure, too.

L62[10:34:25] <Mat2ch> Just to be safe

L63[10:34:45] <XXCoder> i remember one that was launched, and fairings failed to open, so probe was trapped in it as it fell back to earth

L64[10:34:48] <XXCoder> cost millions

L65[10:35:00] <Mat2ch> It's a cheap thing to do in comparison to the whole craft

L66[10:35:15] <XXCoder> yep cheaper than merely launch too

L67[10:35:32] <Mat2ch> " A sudden, unplanned release of a clamp band – which secures Webb to the launch vehicle adapter – caused a vibration throughout the observatory."

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L69[10:36:02] <Mat2ch> and until Starship is ready there will be no option to send someone to repair it.

L70[10:39:01] <darsie> There will be no repair missions, IMHO.

L71[10:39:30] <XXCoder> sucks

L72[10:39:51] <a_flayer> webb delayed

L73[10:40:12] <a_flayer> i'm still optimistic

L74[10:40:16] <darsie> It's difficult to repair because it was not made to be repaired.

L75[10:41:13] <darsie> Manned missions to L2 are long and dangerous. There could be a CME.

L76[10:44:07] <a_flayer> i just want webb up there, looking at stuff

L77[10:46:38] <darsie> Cross your thumbs.

L78[10:52:01] <Mat2ch> darsie: not planned now. But when you got a huge rocket at your service which could launch repair missions, what do you think will happen?

L79[10:53:47] <darsie> Some idiot will fly there in a week, take it apart for a week, replace a thing, put it all together, loose a screw, replace it with chewing gum, fly back home for a week.

L80[10:54:07] <Mat2ch> that will happen if we can repair it easily...

L81[10:55:29] <darsie> We could zip a balloon around it and repair it in a pressurized environment so we don't need space suits.

L82[10:55:43] <darsie> It could be the start of the L2 society.

L83[10:56:11] <darsie> We could build a new one for 500 MUSD.

L84[10:59:11] <a_flayer> zip a balloon around it to do repair...

L85[10:59:15] <a_flayer> you should work for ESA

L86[11:03:56] <darsie> :)

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L105[16:52:20] <trace> for what would menkind need space

L106[16:54:48] <darsie> For their bodies.

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L108[16:58:18] <trace> for what would menkind need the space outside of the earth, moon, mars and else

L109[16:58:28] <trace> for example tourism

L110[16:58:34] <trace> or getting ressources

L111[16:58:38] <trace> or create energy

L112[16:58:45] <trace> or colonization

L113[16:58:54] <trace> any other ideas?

L114[16:59:15] <trace> or send atom rubbish into the sun

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L116[17:00:45] <a_flayer> resources can be found everywhere

L117[17:01:35] <trace> sure

L118[17:04:23] <darsie> We don't need to do any of that. But we want to.

L119[17:05:23] <a_flayer> i hope one day we will need to

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L121[17:06:46] <trace> planetary defense against stones from space

L122[17:09:06] <trace> More celestial bodies make larger telescopes possible, so to speak, just as we on Earth can connect several distant telescopes together to form one giant telescope.

L123[17:09:23] <trace> or is this wrong?

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L211[17:55:00] <NGC3982> using celestial bodies is probably way more work than just keeping telescopes in space

L212[17:57:33] <NGC3982> non-circular orbits and a general hassle to intercept and land upon

L213[17:57:44] <trace> using them?

L214[17:57:59] <NGC3982> as telescopes

L215[17:58:10] <trace> why

L216[17:58:20] <trace> why should we use them as telescopes

L217[17:58:34] <NGC3982> i must have missunderstood you

L218[17:58:41] <NGC3982> i thought that was what you suggested

L219[17:58:57] <NGC3982> misunderstood*

L220[17:59:22] <trace> I meant telescopes could be positioned at other places

L221[17:59:29] <trace> so they can have greater distances

L222[17:59:44] <trace> for them to combine them being together one large telescope

L223[18:00:16] <NGC3982> yes, that is a thing

L224[18:01:08] <NGC3982> https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/10.1142/S225117171850006X?journalCode=jai

L225[18:17:25] <raptop> As best I'm aware telescope-wise the more serious proposals are radio telescopes on the lunar far side, using the sun's gravity focus, and very long baseline shenanigans

L226[18:17:55] <NGC3982> what on earth is a gravity focus

L227[18:18:25] <darsie> Gravitational lensing?

L228[18:18:38] <NGC3982> from the sun?

L229[18:18:43] <raptop> yeah

L230[18:18:45] <NGC3982> wow

L231[18:18:57] <NGC3982> i was unaware we could use lensing on such small scales

L232[18:19:02] <NGC3982> "small"

L233[18:19:06] <Althego> i think that needs to be 150 au away from the sun

L234[18:19:23] <NGC3982> so not on the moon?

L235[18:19:36] <Althego> the moon is the radio telescope on the far side

L236[18:19:45] <Althego> because the moon blocks out the radio noise from earth

L237[18:20:05] <NGC3982> so the 150au is what exactly

L238[18:20:10] <Althego> the sun gravitational lens telescope needs to be far because the sun is not a strong lens

L239[18:20:15] <raptop> eg: https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2006/08/18/the-focal-mission-to-the-suns-gravity-lens/

L240[18:20:37] <Althego> ok 550

L241[18:20:39] <Althego> even farther

L242[18:20:44] <Althego> i didnt remember correctly

L243[18:20:45] <raptop> 550 au because that's about he focal length. gravitational lenses are odd

L244[18:21:34] <NGC3982> i thought you tried to explain that we could use a radio telescope on the moon, 150 au from the sun

L245[18:21:35] <darsie> Use your mom.

L246[18:21:37] <NGC3982> my brain melted

L247[18:21:40] <NGC3982> darsie: you can be a mom

L248[18:21:53] <raptop> darsie: mommy!

L249[18:21:57] <darsie> How?

L250[18:22:02] <Althego> moth mommy?

L251[18:22:08] <raptop> hm

L252[18:22:13] <darsie> Uterus implant?

L253[18:22:17] * raptop sets up some lämps

L254[18:22:30] <Althego> hehe

L255[18:22:51] <raptop> The lunar farside telescope would be a seperate thing

L256[18:24:04] <Althego> there is this idea of 3 probes trailing earth and working as a large gravitational wave detector

L257[18:24:13] <Althego> i like that

L258[18:24:26] <raptop> eLISA?

L259[18:24:33] <Althego> you need only vacuum between them, so you essentially can get rid of all the tunnels and pipes

L260[18:24:59] <Althego> i think so

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L263[18:59:58] <Mat2ch> well, the decision if eLISA will be flown should be made until 2025. How many years will it take to build them and launch them?

L264[19:07:11] <raptop> Apparently quite a while since I think the target launch date is 2034?

L265[19:09:32] <Mat2ch> I haven't seen a launch date...

L266[19:09:59] <Althego> a launch date... when people go and watch a launch together?

L267[19:11:32] <raptop> hmm

L268[19:27:14] <trace> what can we do outside of earth what we cant do here?

L269[19:27:46] <Althego> you can fly on titan

L270[19:27:59] <Althego> you can experience zero g

L271[19:28:05] <Althego> you can see earth from outside

L272[19:28:14] <Althego> you can have space telescopes

L273[19:29:11] <raptop> Supposedly there are cool manufacturing things you can do with microgravity and high vacuum, but AFAIK that's been hyped up with nothing to show since at least the 1980s

L274[19:29:38] <Althego> well, yes, you can technically make new alloys for example

L275[19:29:42] <umaxtu> fiber optics is the one I've heard the most about

L276[19:29:44] <Althego> but then nobody did anything useful

L277[19:30:14] <umaxtu> heat dissipation would be a pain. and the radiators would have to be able to handle mmod

L278[19:32:19] <raptop> Anyone who says Lunar He-3 is at high risk of being stabbed by raptors

L279[19:33:37] <umaxtu> speaking of the moon. does the moons weird-ass gravity field cleanup the space around it?

L280[19:33:39] <Althego> but without power, there will be not enough light, and in the darkness you are likely to be eaten by a grue

L281[19:33:43] <Althego> so grue or raptor

L282[19:34:18] <raptop> umaxtu: I want to say yes, but also wouldn't risk my life on it without doing some studies first

L283[19:35:41] * raptop wonders if there are relevant papers in NTRS

L284[19:40:16] <raptop> Am I a bad person for suggesting orange tank + skipper to a player asking for an SSTO?

L285[19:42:02] <Althego> hehe

L286[19:42:03] <Althego> it works

L287[19:42:43] <packbart> I try to avoid SSTOs because they tend to leave debris in orbit

L288[19:43:03] <packbart> first stage to suborbital

L289[19:43:07] <darsie> raptop: Second rocket can be SSTO.

L290[19:44:11] <raptop> fair

L291[19:44:18] <darsie> 16 FT100 or so, Swivel, capsule.

L292[19:56:05] <darsie> https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/k3gjzi/how_to_orbit_kerbin_on_your_second_launch_and/

L293[19:56:50] <Althego> usually i have the problem how not to orbit kerbin on the first launch

L294[19:58:58] <packbart> easy. capsule, flea with reduced thrust

L295[19:59:22] <darsie> unbelievable

L296[19:59:41] <darsie> Doesn't even have enough dv.

L297[20:00:00] <Althego> but accomplishes the goal of not orbiting

L298[20:00:06] <darsie> ah :)

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L308[21:15:07] * darsie tries to get to orbit with two solids.

L309[21:16:07] * raptop wants to say that you can do SSTO orbiters with making history SRBs

L310[21:30:17] <packbart> the Clydesdale is a beast on its own. but sometimes one needs several of them to get off the ground ;)

L311[21:33:13] <darsie> Worked with Thumper+Hammer, but not purely prograde.

L312[21:33:24] <darsie> (except for launch)

L313[21:33:41] <sandbox> I thought you were talking about the horses there for a second

L314[21:34:07] <sandbox> awesome horses btw

L315[21:35:01] <darsie> I didn't know about them.

L316[21:35:48] <packbart> awesome boosters, too

L317[22:04:23] <FLHerne> packbart: Recoverable SSTO rockets are good

L318[22:04:31] <FLHerne> much easier than spaceplanes

L319[22:12:08] <raptop> In a KSP context, it feels like it's harder to do the recovery part with rockets, but harder to get the spaceplanes into orbit

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L321[22:21:24] <packbart> FLHerne: I've got the monies and unrecovered boosters don't clutter up Kerbin's oceans

L322[22:22:31] <packbart> my goal only to launch on hydrogen engines in a JNSQ scale is hard enough without landing those things ;)

L323[22:23:14] <FLHerne> raptop: nah, you just put little wings on the rocket

L324[22:24:57] * raptop should probably try more gliding recoveries then

L325[22:32:30] <a_flayer> i generally just go for a 70/40 km deorbit and then burn like 300-400 dv retrograde at 40 km to bring her in. put out some flaps to burn off additional speed

L326[22:33:12] <a_flayer> then i throw out the drogues and regular parachutes to make sure i only need to burn a tiny little bit at touchdown for a safe landing

L327[22:34:05] <a_flayer> and to make it possible to land while avoiding having to do an extremely careful landing burn

L328[22:42:20] <Izaya> flyback boosters are the way https://imgur.com/xDek8m5

L329[22:44:03] <a_flayer> i might try that

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L332[22:53:43] ChanServ sets mode: +o on raptop

L333[23:04:26] <raptop> ;mission

L334[23:04:26] <LunchBot> raptop: You try to download the newest update. #KSPOfficial has to be cycled to clean up your mess.

L335[23:04:47] <raptop> Remember when accidentally DDoSing the servers was normal?

L336[23:05:35] <packbart> automatic update stampedes are still a bit of a problem

L337[23:06:41] * packbart updates the Steam client

L338[23:19:23] <XXCoder> pretty good combo lol

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