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L4[00:14:41] <a_flayer> in my mind, kerbals
have no bones, and that's why they can squeeze past engines in crew
transfers
L5[00:16:04] <raptop> Ah, the benefits of
messing with hydrofluoric acid
L6[00:16:16] <packbart> or they just have
short-range personal teleporters
L7[00:16:48] <packbart> teleports? a
teleporter is probably a remote butler
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L10[00:45:23] <bees> raptop: You try to use
infiniglider physics to go over 3,000 m/s. Your Lorentz factor
exceeds 10 digits.
L11[00:47:07] <raptop> Yeah, that would
probably happen with a bad atmosphere plus Squad attempting to add
relativity
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L14[02:53:28] <packbart> The Trisolarans
are clever and mask their signal als local microwave-oven
interference
L15[02:57:15] <raptop> ...if that's a
lensmen reference...
L16[03:11:18] <packbart> nah, it's a
reference to the Trisolaris Trilogy. "Trisolaris is the only
planet in the Alpha Centauri system. It is the homeworld of the
Trisolarans, the main antagonists of the Three-Body Problem sci-fi
novel trilogy."
L18[03:14:13] <packbart> Dark Forest is a
dark theory. Don't be seen in the galaxy. If you see anyone else,
destroy them before they destroy you.
https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/singer.mp3
L19[03:24:40] <raptop> Ah, sort of like
those Greg Bear books (Forge of God and Anvil of Stars)
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L32[05:27:29] <Althego> astra launch
L33[05:34:54] <umaxtu> wow, this is
actually the first time I've started KSP on Linux
L34[05:42:11] <raptop> so far so
good?
L35[05:43:02] <umaxtu> apart from me not
noticing that it was still extracting before I copied every thing
to the installation folder
L36[05:43:18] <umaxtu> no wonder it
couldn't find UnityPlayer.so
L37[05:43:57] <raptop> oops
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L39[06:08:25] <Althego> astra has a red
team, numbered. they have red 5 too
L40[06:16:11] <raptop> Mahi Mahi ☑
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L44[06:53:20] <XXCoder1> partial solar
eclipse
L45[06:55:30] <raptop> if you're LRO, I
guess?
L46[07:01:55] <XXCoder1> LRO?
L47[07:02:08] <XXCoder1> erm I meant Lunar
eclipse lol
L48[07:10:26] <Althego> countdown running
again, under 15 min
L49[07:12:33] <raptop> Lunar Reconnaisance
Orbiter, that sat NASA put in lunar orbit a decade ago
L50[07:13:15] <XXCoder1> ahh
L51[07:14:28] <Althego> scrub
L52[07:16:05] <XXCoder1> starting to get
dark
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L75[12:37:53] <Althego> !time
L76[12:37:54] <Kerbot> Althego =>
13:37:53 CET on 2021-11-19 Friday CW 46
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L80[13:05:14] <Althego> zombanwa but it is
apex
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L173[19:27:15] <raptop> The dream of the
parasite fighter lives on?
L174[19:28:53] <Althego> maybe. but darpa
tries lot of things which then never realized. but some of them
do
L175[19:35:54] <umaxtu> like SpaceX?
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L177[19:42:46] <Mat2ch> unnecessary music,
unnecessary jump cuts...
L178[19:43:00] <Mat2ch> vertical video in
a horizontal one...
L179[19:44:09] <Mat2ch> what kind of
amateurs did this?
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L181[19:44:09] <Mat2ch> and the only
really hard thing was to make the flying object dock.
L182[19:44:15] <Mat2ch> I mean that code
would be great to have to refuel in flight. But maybe they already
had that lying around from some drones.
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L334[19:48:05] <raptop> netsplat!
L335[19:50:43] <Mat2ch> splutsh
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L338[20:14:39] <Althego> dont forget,
astra launch again tomorrow
L339[20:16:37] <a_flayer> i want a moon
base already
L340[20:16:48] <a_flayer> we need to start
sending truckloads of stuff to the moon
L341[20:16:54] <a_flayer> like come on
already sheez!
L342[20:17:07] <Althego> i want a mars
base
L343[20:17:14] <Althego> moon base is a
cop out
L344[20:17:21] <darsie> a_flayer: Why a
Moon base?
L345[20:17:24] <Althego> it would just
turn into the next iss
L346[20:17:31] <a_flayer> darsie, it's
right there!
L347[20:17:35] <darsie> Althego: Why a
Mars base? :)
L348[20:17:42] <Althego> spending money on
it, without getting progress
L349[20:17:56] <darsie> a_flayer: So just
because we want to?
L350[20:18:45] <darsie> I think a Moon
base can provide material for space manufacturing etc.
L351[20:19:37] <darsie> Get shielding
matter down to Earth orbit for space stations.
L352[20:19:49] <darsie> With a mass driver
or a sling shot.
L353[20:21:57] <darsie> Shall we use
aluminium/magnesium or steel for space statinos?
L354[20:22:24] <darsie> Carbon steel? No
carbon on the Moon.
L355[20:22:29] <umaxtu> iirc, we could
make a space elevator at the moon with kevlar
L356[20:22:41] <darsie> mhm
L357[20:22:52] <a_flayer> darsie,
specifically because i want it
L358[20:22:58] <darsie> ok :)
L359[20:23:09] <Althego> the best would be
of course a moon and a mars base
L360[20:23:32] <Althego> the moon base
could build the rockets to go out into the solar system. way easier
to launch
L361[20:23:47] <Althego> and mars would be
frontier
L362[20:24:12] <darsie> Can be much
flimsier rockets than Earth launchers.
L363[20:25:52] <darsie> Can turn Moon
water to propellant.
L364[20:26:22] <darsie> Or deliver it to
LEO.
L365[20:27:25] <darsie> H2 has 13 bar
critical pressure at 33 K.
L366[20:28:24] <darsie> That's a bit
tricky to keep liquid.
L367[20:29:05] <darsie> Could be stored as
H2O and electrolyzed as needed in flight.
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Module Alpha Humana on approach to Space Station
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L372[21:03:59] <trace> hi
L373[21:04:00] <Mod9000> Hello,
trace
L374[21:04:25] <trace> does a rotating
space station needs a rotation in the other direction too ?
L375[21:05:05] <FLHerne> Probably
not
L376[21:05:45] <darsie> no, but it can be
useful.
L377[21:05:59] <trace> for what would it
be useful
L378[21:06:11] <darsie> Like you can
change rotational speed with just solar power and an electric
motor.
L379[21:07:04] <darsie> Or, in case of
O'Neill cylinders it can cancel their angular momenta adn avoid
starting to spin about their stable axis.
L380[21:07:23] <darsie> And you can change
attitude, e.g. to face one side towards the sun.
L381[21:07:50] <FLHerne> Is this question
about real life stations, or KSP?
L382[21:07:55] <darsie> rl
L383[21:07:59] <darsie> oh, rl
answer
L384[21:08:07] <FLHerne> In KSP, tbh I've
never found that spinning ring stations work very well; kerbal
physics are glitchy enough without a moving reference frame
L385[21:08:11] <FLHerne> but they look
pretty
L386[21:08:31] <FLHerne> so build a
contra-rotating section if it looks cool for your design, and not
otherwise :p
L387[21:09:59] <darsie> e.g. if you had
two pairs of starships tetherd together, you could rotate both with
just solar energy and an electric motor.
L388[21:10:38] <trace> FLHerne, why don't
they work very well
L389[21:11:58] <FLHerne> Collision/physics
simulations for Kerbals on EVA aren't great, so they can't stand on
the inside of the ring properly
L390[21:12:09] <FLHerne> usually either
fall off or ragdoll
L391[21:12:25] <FLHerne> and the spinning
makes it a bit tricky to dock
L392[21:12:58] <FLHerne> (that might be
another use for a counter-rotating section in real life; I doubt it
would help much in KSP)
L393[21:13:24] <FLHerne> and obviously IVA
kerbals don't care about 'gravity' at all
L394[21:13:53] <trace> what are IVA
kernals and what does kerbal mean
L395[21:13:57] <FLHerne> Everyone builds
the things anyway because they look awesome
L396[21:14:33] <FLHerne> trace: You're in
#KSPOfficial , this is the Kerbal Space Program game channel
L397[21:14:46] <FLHerne> Kerbals are
little greenish humanoid critters
L398[21:14:55] <FLHerne> that you build
rockets for
L399[21:15:03] <FLHerne> (and rotating
space stations)
L400[21:16:05] <trace> what I knew was
that this channel is about that "game" to create space
crafts and stations
L401[21:16:18] <trace> but never heared
about IVA
L402[21:16:26] <FLHerne> IVA is craft
interior view, as labelled on the button next to EVA
L403[21:16:46] <FLHerne> thus presumably
'Intra-Vehicular Activity' by extension from 'Extra-...'
L405[21:18:55] <raptop> Available on a
bunch of different stores, I'd recommend a PC version over console
for mods
L406[21:18:55] <FLHerne> Anyway, my point
is that the reason to build a rotating space station in real life
is that they experience a centrifugal force similar to gravity,
which is useful for people and systems in it
L407[21:19:24] <raptop> Kerbals by default
have life support requirements that make pak protectors look soft
and weak
L408[21:19:33] <raptop> (aside maybe from
G-tolerance?)
L409[21:19:54] <FLHerne> but KSP doesn't
simulate "people and systems in it" in enough detail for
that to matter, so the only way your station's crew can experience
the centrifugal force is to go spacewalking
L410[21:20:19] <trace> how much G
(>1>) can it have?
L411[21:20:27] <FLHerne> and the physics
simulation doesn't cope very well with that either, so the
practical value of a rotating space station in KSP is about
zero
L412[21:20:45] <FLHerne> As much as you
want, just spin it faster
L413[21:20:55] <FLHerne> Fundamentally
it's just a big centrifuge
L414[21:21:22] <FLHerne> If the speed is
too high relative to the diameter, there are undesirable coriolis
effects
L415[21:21:34] <trace> which are?
L417[21:23:30] <FLHerne> oops
L419[21:23:55]
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L421[21:23:58] <FLHerne> (for some reason
copy-paste has stopped working so I had to type it out, and screwed
the link up...)
L422[21:24:14] <FLHerne> short answer:
moving objects don't go in a straight line
L423[21:24:28] <FLHerne> your human
occupants will be confused and also get seasick
L424[21:24:51] <trace> can their be
technologies invented to make it becoming okay?
L425[21:24:57] <trace> as induction
L426[21:25:14] <FLHerne> If the station is
big and rotates slowly, it shouldn't be a problem
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L428[21:26:38] <trace> I think as well as
no gravity is interesting for tests, there should also be a
scientific relevance for making tests with a lot of gravity
L430[21:28:56] <FLHerne> For more gravity
you don't even need a space station, you can build a big centrifuge
on Earth
L431[21:29:14] <FLHerne> video also
illustrates Coriolis weirdness
L432[21:30:21] <trace> with greater space
stations we could bring greater water areas
L433[21:31:19] <trace> growing plants
could be dangerous, because of their growing roots
L434[21:32:10] <trace> afk
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L438[22:48:25] <SporkWitch> FLHerne: i
watched a video about a ton of research done on centrifugal gravity
and the conclusion seems to be that it's not worth it, generally,
at least not for normal ops. still kills me this guy's a goon
>_<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeMoaxUpWk
L439[22:50:22] <Mat2ch> The first long
distance space travels will probably use it though...
L440[22:54:41] <umaxtu> a year in zero-g
seems alright. anything much longer than that and I start to
wonder
L441[22:55:06] <Mat2ch> but we don't know
if Mars gravity is enough for the human body
L442[22:55:12] <Mat2ch> and then you've
got to get back as well
L443[22:55:23] <darsie> Or you
don't.
L444[22:55:44] <umaxtu> its probably
better than no gravity
L445[22:55:47] <darsie> Lotsa ppl are in
to stay.
L446[22:55:59] <darsie> At least they
think so.
L447[22:56:50] <Mat2ch> The first waves
will be death traps...
L448[22:56:59] <SporkWitch> i suspect Kim
Stanley Robinson's "Mars" trilogy probably got the
reduced gravity angle right. In terms of physiology, it's the
absence of gravity that's the problem. A reasonable amount would be
enough to let our systems that require it to function properly
continue to function, though potentially in a reduced capacity.
There's also the conditioning factor; return is gonna SUCK
L449[22:57:09] <Mat2ch> just like
exploring all the oceans was
L450[22:58:30] <darsie> Artificial gravity
also helps doing kidney stone removal surgery. Well, with the
katether methods it doesn't make as much difference.
L451[22:58:52] <darsie> Other surgeries,
then.
L452[22:59:20] <darsie> appendix
maybe