OCLogs: 2021-07-02.log

Stuff goes here

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L7[03:00:20] <Althego> zombanwa

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L10[03:05:39] <TwistenX> That feeling when you

L11[03:07:58] <raptop> astronomers being silly, I think. (or is this one of those ultrahard SF articles that sometimes shows up?) https://arxiv.org/abs/2106.15181

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L13[03:09:11] <Althego> because it was not hard enough to beuil a dyson sphere around a star. no, build it around a black hole

L14[03:09:18] <TwistenX> there's no way

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L16[03:13:21] <raptop> Like I said, sometimes papers on arχiv read like ultrahard SF

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L28[05:14:15] <Althego> wait, there wasa virgin orbit launch

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L31[05:25:26] <Althego> the roll oscillations seem to be better than the first time

L32[05:37:10] <minas_tirith> Althego, hi

L33[05:37:16] <Althego> ho

L34[05:37:37] <raptop> lo

L35[05:37:49] <minas_tirith> raptop, hi

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L57[11:37:55] <darsie> 1337

L58[11:40:12] <Althego> oh no

L59[11:48:09] <darsie> .

L60[12:11:01] * darsie discovered he can trim his rover to drive forward unattendedly.

L61[12:12:16] <Althego> btw did you know there is now a separate ground throttle and airplane throttle?

L62[12:13:03] <darsie> no

L63[12:13:31] <Althego> the problem was for me, sas is coupled to car forward

L64[12:14:11] <Althego> so constant sas on-off

L65[12:14:49] <darsie> Dang, I accidently increased time warp than decreasing an flipped over.

L66[12:15:07] <Althego> that is why serious people use planes :)

L67[12:15:23] <Althego> at least now we have the space boat dock in ksp

L68[12:15:33] <Althego> so you can legit build boats

L69[12:15:37] <Althego> even if they dont work well

L70[12:15:59] <darsie> Hmm, maybe I can land a plane in the mountains and scan a huge quartz with an OP-E arm.

L71[12:16:16] <Althego> that is what i tried once

L72[12:16:21] <Althego> was total pain

L73[12:16:25] <darsie> :)

L74[12:16:29] <Althego> landing is almost impossible

L75[12:16:39] <Althego> not that rovers like 45 deg slopes

L76[12:16:57] <Althego> and then even if you landed, you need to get really close to the crystal thing

L77[12:17:09] <Althego> with a vtol it is probably possible

L78[12:17:14] <Althego> not with a normal plane

L79[12:17:44] <darsie> I landed with planes on mountains. Not high inclination, though.

L80[12:17:58] <darsie> Dunny if my planes are normal :).

L81[12:18:08] <Althego> yes i did too

L82[12:18:09] <Althego> on top

L83[12:18:12] <darsie> mhm

L84[12:18:16] <Althego> the crystal wasnt there

L85[12:18:21] <darsie> shh

L86[12:18:25] <darsie> :)

L87[12:18:35] <darsie> Hmm, I could search for it with a plane.

L88[12:19:32] <darsie> and/or drop a rover with a chute.

L89[12:19:59] <darsie> Electric plane :)

L90[12:23:08] <Althego> electric eye

L91[12:28:33] <darsie> It's silly to have the mount points on the motors vertically and the props are horizontally.

L92[12:44:45] <Althego> why do rockets need those high towers? for example what spacex is building now. why not just dig a hole and sink the rocket in? and if it explodes that also protects the surroundings

L93[12:45:22] <Mat2ch> Althego: going down is always much more expensive than going up.

L94[12:45:54] <Althego> interesting i didnt know that

L95[12:47:45] <Mat2ch> well, think about it. They are near an ocean, so the ground water is probably very low (and probably even salty)

L96[12:47:53] <Mat2ch> so you dig a hole and have to pump out the water constantly

L97[12:48:05] <Mat2ch> then you need to reinforce the hole

L98[12:48:10] <Mat2ch> and where to put the stuff you dig out?

L99[12:48:27] <Mat2ch> Maybe there's rock underneath it, it's 100 m you wanna dig down.

L100[12:48:31] <Mat2ch> You have to get rid of that rock.

L101[12:49:03] <Mat2ch> Colin Furze has dug a tunnel under his shed. Look him up and see how long it takes to dig just a bit down.

L102[12:49:11] <Althego> i know

L103[12:49:26] <Althego> not a fan of his, but saw some videos

L104[12:51:43] <Althego> other problem would be you have to get rid of the exhaust under ground. lead it up to the surface

L105[12:52:08] <Althego> i guess you cant ever make the hole water proof

L106[12:54:33] <Mat2ch> Oh, you can

L107[12:54:48] <Mat2ch> concrete can be built watertight

L108[12:55:03] <Mat2ch> but you will get rain in.

L109[12:55:12] <Althego> put a lid on top

L110[12:55:27] <Mat2ch> now you've got a bunker for an icbm. :D

L111[12:55:36] <Althego> yes

L112[12:55:40] <Althego> they could do it

L113[12:55:57] <Althego> but i didnt take into account they had infinite taxpayer money

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L115[13:31:07] <Althego> !calc 30000/60/24

L116[13:31:08] <Kerbot> Althego => ~20.83333333333333333333

L117[14:02:52] <Althego> wait, what

L118[14:03:47] <Mat2ch> 20 days

L119[14:03:49] <Mat2ch> yes

L120[14:03:51] <Mat2ch> :P

L121[14:03:53] <Mat2ch> no, hours

L122[14:03:58] <Mat2ch> or days?

L123[14:04:00] <Althego> 30000 records, takes 1 minute, so hours days

L124[14:04:00] <Mat2ch> days.

L125[14:04:02] <Althego> oh no

L126[14:04:06] <Althego> 20 days

L127[14:04:18] <Althego> 20 days to delete 30k records from the db

L128[14:05:54] <Althego> but this is an estimate, some records are kept. so it may be only 2 weeks :)

L129[14:09:43] <Althego> !calc 2/3*300/24

L130[14:09:43] <Kerbot> Althego => ~8.33333333333333333333

L131[14:09:56] <Althego> good, may be only more tha na week

L132[14:15:30] <darsie> Althego: I think rocket exhaust would interfere with the rocket too much in a hole.

L133[14:41:07] <darsie> Why does my CCW motor with CCW blades produce negative thrust?

L134[14:41:54] <Althego> heh

L135[14:41:57] <Althego> complicated

L136[14:42:06] <Althego> you have 3 things you can invert

L137[14:42:09] <Althego> the rotation

L138[14:42:14] <Althego> the blade type

L139[14:42:26] <Althego> and the deploy angle

L140[14:42:36] <Althego> and you have to play with all 3 all the time

L141[14:42:43] <darsie> Hmm, leading blade edge is on the back.

L142[14:42:54] <darsie> Do I have to set negative deploy angle?

L143[14:43:05] <Althego> at least that is how i do it

L144[14:43:12] <Althego> i invert everything until it looks right

L145[14:43:18] <Althego> as a real prop would

L146[14:43:28] <Althego> so lower angle of attack on the outside

L147[14:43:43] <Althego> the leading edge in the right direction

L148[14:43:47] <Althego> and the angle of attack positive

L149[14:45:07] <Althego> and for that you have to use the paw of the motor to rotate direction (you can do it two ways), then the prop paw to switch to the other model, and then the deploy direction

L150[14:45:26] <Althego> incredibly cmplicatd

L151[14:45:36] <Althego> in an ideal world just selecting mirror symemtry would take care of this

L152[14:46:25] <betelgeuse> i am in a circular orbit of 200km altitude. how much deltav would i need to raise my apoapsis to 300km? what's the formula for this? a link or search term would do

L153[14:46:41] <Althego> not much :)

L154[14:46:45] <betelgeuse> :D

L155[14:46:57] <Althego> the game calculates it for you if you have maneuver nodes

L156[14:47:06] <betelgeuse> yeah but i wanna calculate it myself

L157[14:47:16] <Althego> i think there is something in the wiki

L158[14:47:31] <Althego> if not, some of scott's old videos had orbital mechanics

L159[14:48:55] <Althego> i think it is NOT in this https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Cheat_sheet

L160[14:50:37] <betelgeuse> i think that has to do with rocket equation

L161[14:50:53] <betelgeuse> there is a deltav map there but i'd like to be able to calculate those numbers myself

L162[14:50:59] <betelgeuse> for any arbitrary orbit

L163[14:51:08] <Althego> that is not so simple

L164[14:51:14] <Althego> even these values are mostly measured

L165[14:51:19] <Althego> or simulated

L166[14:51:54] <Althego> for example the delta v between solar system bodies changes based on the time you do it. the bodies could be in better or wworse position

L167[14:52:23] <Althego> leaving the atmosphere can also be different between ships, since tehy have different twr and drag

L168[14:52:41] <Althego> however calulating the delta v required between two ellipses

L169[14:52:59] <Althego> i think you want to look into hohmann transfer

L170[14:53:32] <Althego> there were some square roots in it, i dont remember :)

L171[14:53:55] <Althego> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

L172[15:06:49] <kubi> nah

L173[15:06:53] <kubi> .1!!!!1111

L174[15:07:04] <kubi> just needed to turn away for a day

L175[15:18:33] <darsie> Althego: Higher AoA outside.

L176[15:18:56] <Althego> no, lower. because it moves with higher speed

L177[15:19:08] <Althego> highest aoa at the axis

L178[15:19:15] <darsie> Deploy extended vs. retracted helps, too :).

L179[15:19:45] <darsie> Actually it's the same AoA everywhere, ideally.

L180[15:25:36] <darsie> I don't get it: https://i.postimg.cc/px9SmWT2/screenshot61.png

L181[15:25:56] <Althego> one arrow points backwards

L182[15:26:07] <Althego> that is how it visualizes me too

L183[15:26:20] <Althego> but as long as the plane is not trying to go to one side, it is ok

L184[15:28:25] <darsie> https://i.postimg.cc/xfP1Hvgz/screenshot65.png

L185[15:29:04] <darsie> It's moving slowly.

L186[15:31:01] <darsie> Props are moving in opposite directions with correct AoA.

L187[15:32:02] <darsie> I might have to mount them wrong to get it working.

L188[15:33:24] <Althego> ti think the yellow would be the prop thrust

L189[15:33:34] <Althego> red is drag

L190[15:33:43] <Althego> green is dont know what, probably torque

L191[15:33:49] <darsie> thrust

L192[15:33:59] <Althego> no, because one points backwards and that is fine

L193[15:34:02] <Althego> so it cant be thrust

L194[15:34:18] <darsie> It is thrust, and it's wrong on the *right* engine.

L195[15:34:57] <darsie> no, on the left engine.

L196[15:35:47] <Althego> it looks like the deploy direction thing vanished from my plane and it works fine

L197[15:35:52] <Althego> cant imagine what happened

L198[15:35:58] <Althego> maybe they removed one layer of useless complexisy

L199[15:36:16] <Althego> and i typing is worse than usual

L200[15:36:38] <Althego> anyway, the yellow thing is important. because it changes size with you speed

L201[15:38:21] <Althego> the green seems to be steady regardless of motor torque applied

L202[15:38:30] <Althego> but when i take away torque, the yellow shrinks

L203[15:38:39] <Althego> and in fact can point to the other direction

L204[15:38:48] <Althego> so it seems to be more important

L205[15:39:30] <Althego> then the green is angular momentum or something like that

L206[15:39:44] <Althego> and that would explain why it is pointing in the other direction

L207[15:46:09] <darsie> Maybe I attached the blades on the wrong side.

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L209[15:49:05] <darsie> Hmm, both motors accelerated forward. Maybe it is torque.

L210[15:49:08] <darsie> the green

L211[15:49:38] <darsie> After all, motors don't produce thrust.

L212[15:50:39] <darsie> Blades might be stalling.

L213[15:51:57] <Althego> blades only produce thrust if they are deployed

L214[15:52:05] <Althego> regardless of how they look in the picture

L215[15:52:30] <Althego> by default they are not deployed

L216[15:52:35] <darsie> I'm flying.3

L217[15:52:37] <darsie> -3

L218[15:52:54] <Althego> it is useful to have them undeployed, because you can glide farther that way. i think it is the equivalent of the feathered position

L219[15:55:06] <darsie> Yellow is thrust.

L220[15:57:24] <darsie> No clue what the pink stuff is. https://i.postimg.cc/fwbbX2JQ/screenshot67.png

L221[15:57:53] <Althego> that may be control surface

L222[15:58:20] <Althego> because these blades can handle controls, and by default it is on

L223[15:58:42] <Althego> probably more useful on a helicopter

L224[15:59:52] <Althego> hmm ,but usually yellow is control

L225[16:00:01] <Althego> what is purpkle then

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L228[16:16:31] <packbart> the purple only shows up on props. I _think_ it has to do with their virtually increased length and "forward lift", mumblemumble

L229[16:16:50] <packbart> ( https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/kspa1.jpg / https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/kspa1.mp4 )

L230[16:17:06] <Althego> virtual increased length?

L231[16:18:05] <packbart> yeah, I don't find the explanation on the forum anymore, though. a dev explained that for physics calculation, the blades are longer than their visual appearance

L232[16:18:12] * darsie found quartz.

L233[16:18:17] <Althego> lol

L234[16:18:34] <darsie> what? :)

L235[16:18:59] <Althego> so the purple is showing the tips or what

L236[16:19:54] <packbart> looks like it. man, I seem to remember reading an explanation for the colors but don't find it... the Internet is too deep :)

L237[16:20:30] <packbart> there's a mod to automatically adjust prop angle, too. "Pitch Perfect"

L238[16:20:50] <Althego> yes, it is kind of hard to fly with two throttles, so i usually fix the angle

L239[16:21:01] <Althego> in a compromise position

L240[16:22:35] <packbart> ( https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/199464-x )

L241[16:26:01] <packbart> the virtual length was a workaround for some limitation in the Unity physics engine

L242[16:26:45] <packbart> "The propellers, and to a lesser extent the helicopter blades, calculate their velocity/AOA from an artificially offset position. This allows them to act like they're at a higher RPM than they actually are, to get around the PhysX RPM limit, with the consequent effect on AOA, drag, and lift."

L243[16:26:53] <packbart> ( https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/186073-ksp-loading-preview-breaking-ground-propeller-and-helicopter-blades/&do=findComment&comment=3631881 )

L244[16:27:29] <raptop> grmbl

L245[16:32:50] <packbart> "If you truly have faith, you will be lifted by the Krakens arms!" :)

L246[16:34:52] * raptop sets the kraken on fire and shoves it through a converging-diverging nozzel

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L249[16:50:24] <Althego> so that is what people call a kraken drive

L250[16:59:25] * darsie took a screenshot of quartz and crashed. https://i.postimg.cc/KxdR7tCs/screenshot76.png

L251[16:59:45] <Althego> hehe

L252[16:59:49] <Althego> at least you have coordinates

L253[16:59:55] <Althego> very ince location, flat

L254[17:00:18] <darsie> I'll fly there again and land.

L255[17:00:47] <darsie> Flys pretty nicely, now.

L256[17:04:41] <Althego> so china wants a manned mars landing on 2033

L257[17:04:48] <Althego> in

L258[17:05:07] <Althego> i wonder if this kill sartemis

L259[17:06:14] <raptop> AIUI, China hasn't made any sort of formal announcement, and the 2033 date is just one study

L260[17:06:52] <Althego> ah

L261[17:09:09] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqPOe45VzK0 some tiny launch

L262[17:09:13] <Althego> cant watch it

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L265[17:44:01] <darsie> Yess! I landed next to the quartz. Well, somewhere further away, but I rolled there, then. https://i.postimg.cc/3r5N2vSH/screenshot87.png

L266[17:44:15] <darsie> Slow touchdown is ke.

L267[17:44:18] <darsie> key

L268[17:44:45] <darsie> Should use flaps if they are available.

L269[17:44:58] <Althego> they are always available

L270[17:45:09] <Althego> even you dont have the control you can use the paw

L271[17:45:20] <darsie> paw?

L272[17:45:32] <darsie> Hand?

L273[17:45:39] <Althego> part action window

L274[17:45:42] <Althego> or whatever it is

L275[17:45:45] <Althego> the context menu of the part

L276[17:45:51] <Althego> you can always click deploy

L277[17:45:58] <Althego> even if you dont have action groups

L278[17:46:05] <darsie> ok

L279[17:46:17] <Mat2ch> and if you have the basic action groups... the abort group is almost never used. :D

L280[17:46:33] <Althego> yes, abort, gear, and such

L281[17:47:05] <darsie> 23 km rove ...

L282[17:47:09] <Althego> at least rockets dont usually have gears or legs, so i can just bind antenna and solar panel deploy on it

L283[17:58:34] ⇨ Joins: NicknameHere (uid148430@id-148430.stonehaven.irccloud.com)

L284[17:59:18] <Althego> oh no, phoenix at 10. and tomorrow morning is already olli's math stream

L285[18:00:17] * raptop was confused for a moment, given that the phoenix lander arrived at mars 13 years ago >_>

L286[18:06:15] ⇦ Quits: prefixcactus (~quassel@185.68.147.27) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)

L287[18:15:04] * darsie scans the quartz: https://i.postimg.cc/37RvhXpd/screenshot91.png

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L290[18:35:57] ⇦ Quits: minas_tirith (~somebuddy@pika.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Remote host closed the connection)

L291[18:37:38] ⇨ Joins: minas_tirith (~somebuddy@pika.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)

L292[19:28:47] * darsie needlessly accepted a 10 MVF contract.

L293[19:29:23] <darsie> \F

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L295[20:15:45] ⇦ Quits: Ezriilc (~Ezriilc@89.38.69.120) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)

L296[20:15:51] *** Ezriilc_ is now known as Ezriilc

L297[20:18:50] ⇦ Quits: Althego (~Althego@86FF4BDF.unconfigured.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: HMI Module Alpha Humana on approach to Space Station Mercury)

L298[20:21:46] <packbart> E:D does have some interesting disco lights... :> ( https://www.twitch.tv/cmdr_emulatedpenguin )

L299[20:24:22] <packbart> well, now it's gone. many ships pointing beam lasers at a poor Thargoid alien

L300[20:33:27] <minas_tirith> packbart, whos ed

L301[20:34:51] <packbart> it's mostly a space shooter. Elite Dangerous. no orbital mechanics involved

L302[20:35:14] <minas_tirith> space shooter as in shmup?

L303[20:35:27] <packbart> the ships have magical electrical thrusters and FTL drives

L304[20:36:31] <packbart> minas_tirith: well, ramming is an option, too

L305[20:39:02] <packbart> I just wanted to point out the mesmerising view of colorful beam lasers and at that moment they stopped shooting

L306[20:39:11] <packbart> ah, it's on again

L307[20:40:39] <FLHerne> Is there a volcanic activity mod for KSP?

L308[20:40:59] <FLHerne> Having my base destroyed because I accidentally landed it in a volcano would be fun

L309[20:42:20] * raptop is reminded of 0.17 Moho's atmosphere

L310[20:42:42] <packbart> FLHerne: switching between planet texture quality levels does have that effect :)

L311[20:43:19] * flayer slaps packbart

L312[20:44:41] <packbart> The Fish-Slapping Dance?

L313[20:47:20] ⇦ Quits: hnOsmium0001 (uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

L314[20:50:49] <flayer> pretty much

L315[20:51:00] <flayer> i dont have mirc anymore but i still like to slap people

L316[20:53:03] * raptop slaps a trout with flayer

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L319[21:42:16] ⇦ Quits: hnOsmium0001 (uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

L320[21:47:29] <Mat2ch> poor trout.

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L325[23:10:54] ⇦ Quits: darsie (~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)

L326[23:30:10] ⇦ Quits: Lyneira (~konversat@2001:984:484e:1:3c07:e8df:ce32:52d5) (Quit: Bye)

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